the drive upgrate being deemed too important to allow freedom of choice makes sense: in the end, the fleet can nly move as fast as the slowest ship in it, so if even just one ship refuses to upgrade, either the whole fleet will be stuck at non-upgraded speed or that ship will be left behind.
Nah , allowing cylon tech is a breach of sovereignty. Who knows if they have a contingency to have a virus attack against stolen tech ? There is too much concerns that are being ignored and too much risks .
@@thorveim1174ftl isn’t about speed but range, it’s basically instant teleportation so as long as the drive upgrade doesn’t increase the distance the ship can jump then it’s ultimately not as important. Now if it does increase distance than it’s probably one of the most important upgrades a ship could ever be given
I never understood why their fuel ship wasn't more heavily protected or why it was allowed to be a civilian ship. The entire fleet depended on that one ship and it should have been a pure military asset. Then leaving put the entire fleet in jeopardy.
Likely the civillians on board where the only ones familiar with its operations. Problem with more advanced societies is the higher you go the more specialized individual skill sets become.
The civilians only knew how to process it. There is a whole episode on Apollo and Chief educating the president on rotating in workers and unions. They also needed the military to run the Battlestar. They had less staff because of the decommissioning in episode one
"What do you get when you vote a criminal into the second highest position in government?! I'll tell you what you get: YOU GET WHAT YOU FRACKING DESERVE!" *_GUNSHOT_*
The word "godsdamn" would not exist. I am sure they would say, "godsforsaken", but "godsdamn" is too hard to pronounce; after some time, it would have become "goddamn".
@@ricksimon9867 How about you read HIS post again, try to understand it, and delete yours? Because neither your reply nor your original post made any gods-damned sense.
@@filthycasual8187 He explained to me that they have many gods. My post contained the word, "godsforsaken", showing that I already know that. Your reply is that of a nitwit.
Provided a given order is actually lawful. And within the lawfully designated authority of the order-giver. Military personnel actually have a legal RESPONSIBILITY to oppose a plainly unlawful or unauthorized order (see Nuremberg prosecutions of NSDAP personnel for "just obeying orders"), and a right to ask for clarification on potentially unlawful ones. This is obviously a HIGHLY questionable situation (intentionally written that way to elevate the drama and support the story arc), and Mr. Gaeta (a very experienced officer) is doing his job. (Where he goes from there, however.....) You are correct that a military is not (and cannot be) a democracy, but in most free societies, its' role is to serve & safeguard democracy and it's laws, not usurp them.
@@k1rossGood response, and yeah, I know all that. Worked law enforcement for 20 years. Mutiny, or suborning mutiny, is never lawful, however, and Adama had clear authority to issue those orders as stated. Gaeta never stated that Adama had issued an illegal order. What he did was to challenge an admiral's authority on the bridge of his ship during a time of war, which is an act of insubordination. We've all gotten perfectly legal orders we didn't like. That doesn't mean we don't follow them. You just grit your teeth, and stay in your lane. Also, Gaeta's problem was not with obeying any specific order, but with generally working with the Cylons. In his compromized mental state, he was unable to adjust to the changing dynamics of the situation. Tom Zarak was just a terrorist and an insurrectionist.
@@BurntPlaydoh Yes, I'm oversimplifying. I had not intended wasting a lot of time and energy arguing a courtroom case based on a partially conceptualized fictional legal system. This is all speculation, and just for fun. I have my own writing and world-building to do. I think my energy is best spent on that. It's been fun, but I'd rather not do this all day. Sorry.
@@phyllisdicks9830 Not to put to fine a point in disagreement, since Adama's position was logical, but the government decides the limits of authority. In this case, that he had no authority to force this. So his orders were illegal.
@@icecold9511 I seem to remember early on that military decisions were to be handled by Adama. FTL upgrades in a time of war seems to be under the umbrella of “military” matters.
That seems reasonable. Damage would be caused by non-uniform spatial distortions across the body of the victim ship. The distortions from a larger ship would be more uniform at a given radius, and a smaller ship would see less stress from a given degree of non-uniformity. Essentially, Galactica was a big thing hit with a sharp blow and got punctured, while the raptor here was a small thing hit with a blunt blow and merely got pushed.
@@JeffACornell Exactly. Think of it this way... A sudden gust of hard wind impacting a large tent made out of paper might rip a hole into that structure. But if a large paper tent causes a similar gust, it would toss around a small paper tent, but wouldn't tear it.
@@Snapper314 this makes no sense. It's like saying a large explosion (just a parallel here, not an example) would affect less a fly because it's smaller
@@power2084 It's more like how the oceans have tides, but small lakes don't. Oceans are big enough to feel the difference in the moon's gravitational strength at different distances, so they slosh around as the moon moves through the sky. But the lake is so small that the the moon's gravity is pretty much the same even on opposite ends of the lake, so no sloshing. If a ship is small enough that the FTL distortions push evenly on every part of the ship, it won't feel anything, and will just 'fall' in whatever direction the distortions are pulling on space. But a bigger ship will feel that distortion pulling on one part of the ship and nowhere else, creating stress and possibly damage.
Gaeta was right. Adama was, once again, usurping civilian control of the government. Adama rebelled against Roslin, Zarek, Cain...really, every authority figure he ever had, except Gaius Baltar. THE ACTUAL CYLON SYMPATHIZER.
@@TrackerNeil Adama was not a cylon sympathizer. Once he found out about the Final Five and how important they are to humanity and also the civil war among them he did what he had to do. Gaeta was unable to comprehend this along with most civilians in the fleet which is understandable. Let's not forget Zarek was only doing things for his own selfish need for power. Let's not forget he also killed the Quorum. So who's usurping civilian authority here?
Lincoln felt the same. Put an end now or lose everything. And now 200 years later, we're talking about secession again, like it's an easy thing to do. A house divided cannot stand.
I really enjoyed Gaeta as a character and his arc.. That being said, he should’ve counted himself lucky it was Adama he was speaking towards.. had he taken that stance with Admiral Cain he’d have been shot down and stored on the adjacent slab next to Belzen down in the morgue. Had Adama adopted that policy the mutiny would’ve never happened and think of all the lives saved.
Telling his entire fleet to side with any Cylons was just a tall order, even for Adama - especially after the fiasco of finding the original Earth. Though he should've remained the final word as commander, like it or not, Adama really needed to be more diplomatic & court a lot of public opinion on this one - and he failed to do so. Zarek should not have had the perceived clout to do what he did. Bottom line was, yeah, Adama messed up by just gripping the reigns too tight.
military personnel are taught to obey without question, Military leaders expect as such leads to problem when you have a military leader in charge of a civilian fleet
🤦♂️ they are a last chance fleet of random ships holding what's left of humanity. If he doesn't hold it tight they fall apart. It's not a tall order when there's no one else and nowhere else left to turn to. Adapt or die those are the options.
Gaeta was right--why does Adama get to decide what is and what isn't a military matter? If Adama has that unilateral power, then he's essentially the king of the fleet. Gaeta was right to push back on that startling assertion.
Their FTL drives are a military matter; the fleet is only as slow as it’s slowest ship. When it comes to military matters he is indeed king. That is quite literally how the military works.
@@m3rcier808So you say, and so Adama says. The Quorum disagreed. Who gets to say he is right and they are wrong? Adama claimed that authority for himself, but it's just a claim.
The FTL drives are a military matter especially for ships necessary to fleet survival. Why does he get to decide because his job is to ensure the safety and survival of the fleet and this is easily one of the simplest things to justify.
@adarkwind4712 By that reasoning, the gravity-generators are a military matter, too, as are the regular engines, life-support, and just about every system on every ship. That basically gives Adama control over every aspect of each civilian ship. As as far as "simple to justify", the Quorum didn't think it was so simple; they enacted a law that clarified what the military could control and what it couldn't, specifically exempting each ship's jump drive. Either the fleet operates under civilian rule or it does not. Maybe you think it does not, but that battle was fought and settled in Season Two, and civilian rule won.
@@TrackerNeil if you're allowing those systems to fall into disrepair intentionally, then yes, it would be because ships can only hold so many people on board with those lide support systems. And it would then be called a state of emergency which would give him carte Blanche to do what was necessary to either bring it in line or abandon ot and find out why it was allowed to get to such a state. However, that's not the case here. Specifically here, it is about keeping the fleet together and keeping them flying. Because they're on borrowed time and every day and jump brings things closer to falling apart, making everyone's FTL better is absolutely under his authority because it goes specifically to the fleets' survival and longevity. To argue otherwise is to intentionally ignore that these ships aren't meant to be jumping like this without maintenance, which none of them have received in some time. So yes, their FTLs *specifically* fall under military purview. The most you could argue is that ships unnecessary to fleet survival can choose not to get the upgrades. However, by doing so, they also choose to be left behind.
It's REALLY hard to not sympathize with Gaeta. Adama is cracking down on the Fleet with an Iron fist. The more civilians try and break away from the rule of Galactica the more Adama turns into another Admiral Cain.
So? It's not just a common war, its not even a war of genocide, it's a war of complete and utter Extinction! So Adama's first focus is on the survival of Humanity, not on what's fair or even just. Admiral Cain may have been cold and ruthless but she was cunning and decisive and personally I would follow her to the death given the circumstances in which "Battlestar Galactica" takes place
Remember Zarek does not care about the survivors but his own selfish goals, Adama might not be making all the right decisions but he's doing it for the good of humanity. Cain was acting under her own need for blood and that's it. So no, Adama was not turning into Cain.
@@nemesis7087 Cain was a s** commander willing to kill civilians and she killed her own XO just because she would not follow her order. She could have just thrown him in the brig for insubordination. You are correct, she was cold and ruthless, but that's it. She was not a good leader. When you have a leader like her mutiny is always inevitable.
the drive upgrate being deemed too important to allow freedom of choice makes sense: in the end, the fleet can nly move as fast as the slowest ship in it, so if even just one ship refuses to upgrade, either the whole fleet will be stuck at non-upgraded speed or that ship will be left behind.
Agreed.
Nah , allowing cylon tech is a breach of sovereignty. Who knows if they have a contingency to have a virus attack against stolen tech ? There is too much concerns that are being ignored and too much risks .
This contradict's earlier show lore, but ....
@@piotrd.4850 how so? genuine question here, may be something i forgot
@@thorveim1174ftl isn’t about speed but range, it’s basically instant teleportation so as long as the drive upgrade doesn’t increase the distance the ship can jump then it’s ultimately not as important. Now if it does increase distance than it’s probably one of the most important upgrades a ship could ever be given
"You know there are days that I really hate this job." - William Adama
Loved that remark from Adama.
Me too, Will. Me too.
"You know there are days that I really hate this job." Especially when I'm surrounded by incompetence...
Rolling a hard six
So say we all
It's the little details like using military terms terms such as "MarDet" and "actual" and "CAP" and "CAG" that add to the show.
What’s a “MarDet”? I’ve never heard of that one before.
@@stewban007 Marine Detachment.
I never understood why their fuel ship wasn't more heavily protected or why it was allowed to be a civilian ship. The entire fleet depended on that one ship and it should have been a pure military asset. Then leaving put the entire fleet in jeopardy.
Valid point
Likely the civillians on board where the only ones familiar with its operations. Problem with more advanced societies is the higher you go the more specialized individual skill sets become.
The civilians only knew how to process it. There is a whole episode on Apollo and Chief educating the president on rotating in workers and unions. They also needed the military to run the Battlestar. They had less staff because of the decommissioning in episode one
It was a civilian ship to begin with, as were all the rest.
@@jeffburnham6611 the military could have made it a military ship
The subtle nature of Lt. Hoshi face as if he knew Gaete was about to lay into Adama with that hot fire! Lmao stand by your man Hoshi 🤣 😂
To paraphrase Arthur Fleck, you vote Tom Zarek you get what you deserve!
"What do you get when you vote a criminal into the second highest position in government?! I'll tell you what you get: YOU GET WHAT YOU FRACKING DESERVE!"
*_GUNSHOT_*
Wishing Michael Hogan the best. so say we all
So Say We All!
So Say We All!!!!
So say we all
So say we ALL!
So say we all
Enough of these Clips. Now i have to watch the series again.
You make it sound like a bad thing?
@@RobertdMacGregor Not at all! Quite the contrary!
@@greyd.99xsome Yeah it's about time.
@@sid2112 So say we all.
@@greyd.99xsome Gotta break out some Deadlock and chew through a few BaseStars to set the mood.
I really forgot how powerful this scene was.
Now I wanna binge on this show again
Someone should tell whoever titles these clips that there's no apostrophe in "godsdamn".
The word "godsdamn" would not exist. I am sure they would say, "godsforsaken", but "godsdamn" is too hard to pronounce; after some time, it would have become "goddamn".
@@ricksimon9867 It's specific to the show, since the Colonials have a multi theistic pantheon. Multiple Gods, so the plural is correct.
@@MikMoen
Read my post again - try and understand it - delete your "reply".
@@ricksimon9867 How about you read HIS post again, try to understand it, and delete yours? Because neither your reply nor your original post made any gods-damned sense.
@@filthycasual8187
He explained to me that they have many gods. My post contained the word, "godsforsaken", showing that I already know that. Your reply is that of a nitwit.
So say we all
Never noticed the first time I watched, but the front of the ship looks like a Cylon head. At least to me it does.
@@leopolled9297 built by cylons before the first war
Gaeta just hauled off and jumped down that rabbit hole. Last time I checked, the military was not a democracy.
Provided a given order is actually lawful. And within the lawfully designated authority of the order-giver. Military personnel actually have a legal RESPONSIBILITY to oppose a plainly unlawful or unauthorized order (see Nuremberg prosecutions of NSDAP personnel for "just obeying orders"), and a right to ask for clarification on potentially unlawful ones. This is obviously a HIGHLY questionable situation (intentionally written that way to elevate the drama and support the story arc), and Mr. Gaeta (a very experienced officer) is doing his job. (Where he goes from there, however.....)
You are correct that a military is not (and cannot be) a democracy, but in most free societies, its' role is to serve & safeguard democracy and it's laws, not usurp them.
@@k1rossGood response, and yeah, I know all that. Worked law enforcement for 20 years. Mutiny, or suborning mutiny, is never lawful, however, and Adama had clear authority to issue those orders as stated. Gaeta never stated that Adama had issued an illegal order. What he did was to challenge an admiral's authority on the bridge of his ship during a time of war, which is an act of insubordination. We've all gotten perfectly legal orders we didn't like. That doesn't mean we don't follow them. You just grit your teeth, and stay in your lane. Also, Gaeta's problem was not with obeying any specific order, but with generally working with the Cylons. In his compromized mental state, he was unable to adjust to the changing dynamics of the situation. Tom Zarak was just a terrorist and an insurrectionist.
@@BurntPlaydoh Yes, I'm oversimplifying. I had not intended wasting a lot of time and energy arguing a courtroom case based on a partially conceptualized fictional legal system. This is all speculation, and just for fun. I have my own writing and world-building to do. I think my energy is best spent on that. It's been fun, but I'd rather not do this all day. Sorry.
@@phyllisdicks9830
Not to put to fine a point in disagreement, since Adama's position was logical, but the government decides the limits of authority. In this case, that he had no authority to force this. So his orders were illegal.
@@icecold9511 I seem to remember early on that military decisions were to be handled by Adama. FTL upgrades in a time of war seems to be under the umbrella of “military” matters.
I just realize that the ship jumped with no damage whatsoever to the raptor , but a raptor jump did a number on galactica from a little further away.
That seems reasonable. Damage would be caused by non-uniform spatial distortions across the body of the victim ship. The distortions from a larger ship would be more uniform at a given radius, and a smaller ship would see less stress from a given degree of non-uniformity.
Essentially, Galactica was a big thing hit with a sharp blow and got punctured, while the raptor here was a small thing hit with a blunt blow and merely got pushed.
@@JeffACornell
Exactly. Think of it this way...
A sudden gust of hard wind impacting a large tent made out of paper might rip a hole into that structure. But if a large paper tent causes a similar gust, it would toss around a small paper tent, but wouldn't tear it.
@@Snapper314 this makes no sense. It's like saying a large explosion (just a parallel here, not an example) would affect less a fly because it's smaller
@@power2084 It's more like how the oceans have tides, but small lakes don't. Oceans are big enough to feel the difference in the moon's gravitational strength at different distances, so they slosh around as the moon moves through the sky. But the lake is so small that the the moon's gravity is pretty much the same even on opposite ends of the lake, so no sloshing.
If a ship is small enough that the FTL distortions push evenly on every part of the ship, it won't feel anything, and will just 'fall' in whatever direction the distortions are pulling on space. But a bigger ship will feel that distortion pulling on one part of the ship and nowhere else, creating stress and possibly damage.
@@JeffACornell Thanks for the explanation, I was thinking the same thing about the distortion.
I could be wrong here, but Mr. Gaeta seems to disapprove of the Admirals orders.
His disapproval led to his stupid decision to mutiny.
Gaeta was right. Adama was, once again, usurping civilian control of the government.
Adama rebelled against Roslin, Zarek, Cain...really, every authority figure he ever had, except Gaius Baltar. THE ACTUAL CYLON SYMPATHIZER.
@@TrackerNeil Adama was not a cylon sympathizer. Once he found out about the Final Five and how important they are to humanity and also the civil war among them he did what he had to do. Gaeta was unable to comprehend this along with most civilians in the fleet which is understandable. Let's not forget Zarek was only doing things for his own selfish need for power. Let's not forget he also killed the Quorum. So who's usurping civilian authority here?
@@Necromonger69 You mistake me. I'm not saying Adama was a Cylon sympathizer; I'm saying the only authority figure he ever obeyed was.
Call it a hunch, but I think that may come to a head shortly.
The VP is an instigator.
If i were a commander in chief of unified government escorts fleet, I'll issue and relay the order to the rest of the fleet.
the ships refuse the upgrade. Ok fine, next jump is out of there jump range. i guess they either uggrade or get left behind
Yup. The only shipsbthat don't get to decide are those necessary for fleet survival. Everyone else have fun.
Cylon originating upgrade killed their forces and almost civilisation. Why whould they have second thoughts, uh?
The ship refusing in the clip is a Tylium refinery. They can't afford to leave it behind.
That fuel ship must have changed captains alot.
Lincoln felt the same. Put an end now or lose everything. And now 200 years later, we're talking about secession again, like it's an easy thing to do.
A house divided cannot stand.
Thank You Very Good ;
I really enjoyed Gaeta as a character and his arc..
That being said, he should’ve counted himself lucky it was Adama he was speaking towards.. had he taken that stance with Admiral Cain he’d have been shot down and stored on the adjacent slab next to Belzen down in the morgue.
Had Adama adopted that policy the mutiny would’ve never happened and think of all the lives saved.
Remind me, how did he end up anyway?
@@piotrd.4850 lol touché, tho it wasn’t his mouth that led him to a firing squad 😅
I’m sure you all have work, do it.
Gods*
muh freedoms
Telling his entire fleet to side with any Cylons was just a tall order, even for Adama - especially after the fiasco of finding the original Earth. Though he should've remained the final word as commander, like it or not, Adama really needed to be more diplomatic & court a lot of public opinion on this one - and he failed to do so. Zarek should not have had the perceived clout to do what he did. Bottom line was, yeah, Adama messed up by just gripping the reigns too tight.
military personnel are taught to obey without question, Military leaders expect as such
leads to problem when you have a military leader in charge of a civilian fleet
🤦♂️ they are a last chance fleet of random ships holding what's left of humanity. If he doesn't hold it tight they fall apart. It's not a tall order when there's no one else and nowhere else left to turn to. Adapt or die those are the options.
No apostrophe in Gods.
Gaeta was right--why does Adama get to decide what is and what isn't a military matter? If Adama has that unilateral power, then he's essentially the king of the fleet. Gaeta was right to push back on that startling assertion.
Their FTL drives are a military matter; the fleet is only as slow as it’s slowest ship. When it comes to military matters he is indeed king. That is quite literally how the military works.
@@m3rcier808So you say, and so Adama says. The Quorum disagreed. Who gets to say he is right and they are wrong? Adama claimed that authority for himself, but it's just a claim.
The FTL drives are a military matter especially for ships necessary to fleet survival. Why does he get to decide because his job is to ensure the safety and survival of the fleet and this is easily one of the simplest things to justify.
@adarkwind4712 By that reasoning, the gravity-generators are a military matter, too, as are the regular engines, life-support, and just about every system on every ship. That basically gives Adama control over every aspect of each civilian ship.
As as far as "simple to justify", the Quorum didn't think it was so simple; they enacted a law that clarified what the military could control and what it couldn't, specifically exempting each ship's jump drive. Either the fleet operates under civilian rule or it does not. Maybe you think it does not, but that battle was fought and settled in Season Two, and civilian rule won.
@@TrackerNeil if you're allowing those systems to fall into disrepair intentionally, then yes, it would be because ships can only hold so many people on board with those lide support systems. And it would then be called a state of emergency which would give him carte Blanche to do what was necessary to either bring it in line or abandon ot and find out why it was allowed to get to such a state. However, that's not the case here. Specifically here, it is about keeping the fleet together and keeping them flying. Because they're on borrowed time and every day and jump brings things closer to falling apart, making everyone's FTL better is absolutely under his authority because it goes specifically to the fleets' survival and longevity. To argue otherwise is to intentionally ignore that these ships aren't meant to be jumping like this without maintenance, which none of them have received in some time.
So yes, their FTLs *specifically* fall under military purview. The most you could argue is that ships unnecessary to fleet survival can choose not to get the upgrades. However, by doing so, they also choose to be left behind.
It's REALLY hard to not sympathize with Gaeta. Adama is cracking down on the Fleet with an Iron fist. The more civilians try and break away from the rule of Galactica the more Adama turns into another Admiral Cain.
So? It's not just a common war, its not even a war of genocide, it's a war of complete and utter Extinction! So Adama's first focus is on the survival of Humanity, not on what's fair or even just.
Admiral Cain may have been cold and ruthless but she was cunning and decisive and personally I would follow her to the death given the circumstances in which "Battlestar Galactica" takes place
Remember Zarek does not care about the survivors but his own selfish goals, Adama might not be making all the right decisions but he's doing it for the good of humanity. Cain was acting under her own need for blood and that's it. So no, Adama was not turning into Cain.
@@Necromonger69 well put 👌
@@nemesis7087 Cain was a s** commander willing to kill civilians and she killed her own XO just because she would not follow her order. She could have just thrown him in the brig for insubordination. You are correct, she was cold and ruthless, but that's it. She was not a good leader. When you have a leader like her mutiny is always inevitable.
I'm with Mik Moen; Adama was acting like a banana republic dictator.
Gods'. They believed in gods, plural. Not God's
I wonder what Laura look like if she was with child
Mary McDonnell has two kids. Maybe some photos of interest exist on the internet.
1000th
i cant watch all this shakey cam
You know, there are days that I really hate this re-boot.
Felix was always such a coward. Imagine how Cain would’ve dealt with his BS.
One of few responsible adults in the series. Also - how? He was attempted to be executed twice, 2nd time successful