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Festool Domino, Mafell Doweller or Lamello Zeta? [video
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ต.ค. 2019
- In todays slightly longer video I take a look at the three best portable jointing systems available; the #FestoolDomino, the #Mafell DDF40 DuoDoweller and the #Lamello Zeta P2. Enjoy!
If you liked the video give it a thumbs up, and subscribe for more weekly workshop videos. Check the blogpost that accompanies this video at bit.ly/10minuteBlog
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Special Thanks for Alan Harrison at ProTrade - bit.ly/ProTrade_Zeta
Mafell Doweller at ProTrade - bit.ly/DDF40
Lamello Zeta P2 - amzn.to/2Xpu5vB (US: amzn.to/2Kufuv1)
Festool Domino - amzn.to/2pVSnMk (US: amzn.to/2o7E22Q)
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Thank you for the review of the three tools. The small details you've covered really help someone who's considering a purchase of one of the tools. You cover the simple important things that occur during day to day operation of the tool.
Thanks! I think it helps that the I’ve used the Domini and Zeta for a while, and was kindly allowed some time with the Mafell in order to familiarise myself with it. Glad the video has helped. 👍
Still in love with the Domino! Those other machines look cool, too! The wiggle room would be a key factor, both in terms of accuracy and of allowing wood movement since I often work with wood. Just made a bunch of face frames with the domino and it was effortless to get everything lined up and glued, just a quick sand to take off glue, no more sanding to get things flush. Life is good! Thanks for the great video.
Yep! Still very flexible and versatile; always a place in my heart & my workshop for a Domino. 👍👍
When you apply each of these machines to the ends of some 3x1’s, and stack the mafell one atop the Domino’d one with the lamello on the bottom..... smiley face! :-I
This was a fantastic product comparison Peter, Its great to see these types of tools being shown without someone saying "You NEED this tool!". Also, there's about £3000 worth of tools there...and the Festool Domino is the cheapest!!, what has the world come to lol
I ended up getting the Domino 500 and the TS55 over a year ago, mostly on the strength of what you've said about them and seeing that the dust collection is great for a small workshop. My workshops 4m long by 1.9m wide!
Thanks Simon! Yes, lots of pricey gear on the bench in this video - and not all of it mine! Glad the Domino & TS55 are working well for you. 👍👍
I keep coming back to this video, it’s so useful. Understand the attraction of knock-down fixings. I have 100 of those ‘ixconnect’ 8x60 dowels arriving tomorrow with the plan of using them in a 7ft bookcase install in a tight area. Something tells me they’re not going to have the clamping force of the likes of the clamex or peanut but hopefully it’s significant enough. How they turn out will determine what jointing system I invest in. Great videos as always Peter 👍
Thanks David! Be interested to hear how you got on with those fittings! 👍👍
I discovered your channel while looking for information on the Bosch GSS 160. Thanks to you I added a Zeta P2, a Domino 700 and a Rotex 90to the collection. After watching the grinder comparison, a Festool 130 duplex will follow. My wife will be so happy I don’t need a ddf 40 :)
Haha, thanks Jay! 👍👍
Funny how TH-cam works, until today, I had never seen one of your videos. Nicely done! Hello from Utah United States.
Thank you, and welcome! One of my Patreon supporters from your neck of the woods very kindly sent me a 'Ski Utah" t-shirt, something I hope to put into practice just as soon as I learn to ski! 😂Happy New Year from London!
This video has answered many questions I've always had and more! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks David! 👍👍
A great review peter. I still love my domino machine and your right to say that I helps speeds up production. God knows how long it would have taken to make my daughters bed without it and the great connection sets.
Cheers Ralph!!
I have very much appreciated your content and the care in which you approach your work. I agonized over the decision between the Domino and the Duo. This video was very helpful to me. I'll be using the Duo for joinery as well as shelf hole pins, which saves me the cost of the LR32 system. I believe I'll add a Festool Domino XL down the road. Thanks again, I've learned a tremendous amount from your content.
Thanks, glad the video helped and appreciate the comment! 👍👍
Always great information from your channel. I appreciate the comparisons between the three tools. I'm in the same frame of mind with Domino and the Lamello. Even though it is two systems, I still think that those two are in synergy.
Yes, very much so. And thanks! 👍
As a hobbyist I always found it difficult to justify the expense for any of those, but as we have a zeta at my workplace, I used it to build a Desk this year. What a breeze. It solved a million problems at once. Now a domino is on my list, as it’s the cheapest and most adapted to my needs. I don’t care to much for how the mafell dowels narrow stock.
As a long-term Domino user, feel free to call me biased, but using all three of these together brought home just how versatile the domino is. As well as being the 'least expensive' of the three. 👍
Peter this was just so interesting and informative my friend,,All the way from Somerset ☀️👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👍
Thanks David! 👍
Great review Peter, as a none professional I use a Dowel Max jig. It’s very good and accurate, takes time but does the job. However I have no ‘wiggle’ room which on some of the furniture I’ve made is vital. When I make furniture for the family I have to load everything into a hatchback car. So a knock down facility would really be useful but the cost of all these for a none professional (unless the kids feel like being generous at Xmas) is prohibitive. What I should have done years ago when I retired was just to bite the bullet and bought the Festool Domino. No ifs or buts it would have been the best investment. Thanks for sharing really enjoyable. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks Mike! Yes, the Domino was a lot of money (still is!) but it’s paid for itself over and over. 👍👍
Hobbyist here. I bought the Dowel Max too and ran into the same limitations. A year later I sold it, along with about everything else I had around that I didn't need for the Domino. Haven't regretted it one bit.
For assembling with dowels there are the confirmat screws. Cheap and great for open shelves as they give lateral stiffness
Brilliant objective review, thanks Peter.
Well done Peter. I think your assessment is spot on. Mafell did make some improvements that make the DDF40 much better than the older model. Steve
Cheers Steve! 👍👍
I had a domino and sold it and then got the Mafell DDF40 after I saw one on display while on vacation in Munich. I'm just a hobbyist so probably won't get that much use out of it but it is joy to use. I find myself trying to think of projects just so I can use it.
The Mafell’s a fine machine. I’m a long-term Domino user, so I found it a little slow and awkward to use in comparison, but I was happy with the results it produced. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop yes, there is a pretty steep learning curve to take advantage of all of its capabilities. I find myself carrying my laptop out to the shop and watch their tutorials to refresh my memory. I can't bring myself, yet, to think about replacing my 8 year old TS55 for the Mafell MT55 but I did bite the bullet and get the p1cc jig saw which is a fantastic "piece of kit" as you Brits like to say! :)
I couldn't help myself. Just sold the TS55 and got the MT55cc. What a fantastic piece of engineering. I hate the internet! It's cost me a lot of money! :)
@@hhanger1 I love the mafell. I had an erika for 25 years and it stopped working. because of its age it could not be fixed. I bought a Makita mitre and am sorry that I did . its a fine machine but not the Mafell style. I have a festool - drill, driver, router, 1400, jig saw and will be selling them all and buying Mafell. I not in the business just love German tools.
Thanks for the Mafell info. A dowel has it's place but for me the Domino and Zeta are my preference. Thanks Peter.
Thanks Mark! Yes, mine too, but it was good to get some hands on time with the Mafell.
Oh, that was surprisingly nice to see the mirock marking ruler in the video 😎
Very interesting video. I have found the domino a game changer in the speed I can put a.cabinet or frame together. The other options are interesting but I'm not making stuff commercially so I can absorb some faffing around when I need knock down fittimgs.
Thanks Karl! 👍
Brilliant videos. You are a natural teacher.
Thank you! 👍
Just purchased a biscuit jointer from Aldi and I am just getting to grips with it. It is a step up from my self made dowel jig.
It is not a pro tool by any means, but as I am DIY , i have a bit more time to play around with joints to get where I need it to.
If its your business to get spot on joints to a deadline, then the Domino or the Mafell look the dogs dangles!
I’m so tempted by one of those! 👍👍
Thumbs up. Great video! Very illustrative. Thnk u!
Great video Peter.. feels like I've been waiting ages for this video! Part 1 of many hopefully. If you have access to the Mafell for long enough...
Thanks Jim. The Mafell went back yesterday, sadly - though I have had it for a while... 😬🤷♂️
Very nicely done Peter (as always). Super clear and informative review 😁👍. But I think my internet sound is broken... it sounded like you said "Festool is the cheapest"..... oh my god... you did 😱.... I must have entered a parallel universe 😂🤣. Keep up the great content 😁👍.
Thanks Frank! Perhaps I should have said ‘least expensive...’ 😂👍
Festool is the cheapest ... don't hear that often
Haha - I’ll go with ‘least expensive’ 🤷♂️👍👍
michaelbuddy Lots of folk make their own Dominos from scrap and offcuts. Harder to do that with dowels, impossible with the Lamello fixings. And the difference in cost between the doweller and the domino buys a *lot* of dominos.
I was going to say the same thing. And by a decent amount too.
People always complaining about Festool, but Mafell is the most overpriced brand in the wood machine industry.
@@TheDarthvader123 however it is pretty much the best as well. You pays your money. VW ....BMW .....Porsche.
Wow, that seems like a massive oversight in the design of the IXConnect system. Thanks for pointing this out as I was researching specifically with knock down fixings in mind.
maybe mafell should give them a call and get them to make 14mm versions. Alternatively mafell could make their own competitor to those fixings without violating the patent.
Nicely done👍👍👍👍
Thank you for the review. Helpful insights. Now I want them all :D
Ooh I imagine this will be a popular video! Just starting watching now, with interest!
Cheers Alastair. 👍
Fantastically informative Peter and the direct comparison approach throws up a lot of interesting thoughts. For example seeing the resulting slots/holes created by each machine side by side immediately suggests that you are getting a bigger/stronger joint from either the lamello or the Mafell vs the Festool. I hadn’t seen those Hafele dowels close up before either and your point about their limits with drill depth in 18mm corner joints was helpful. These sorts of insights make your carefully planned and filmed videos very valuable 👍
Cheers Alastair! To be fair I was using the second-smallest dominos for this vid - you can go significantly bigger if you need them, though tbh the ‘smallness’ of the domino slot is a real benefit when working on narrow stock eg rails. A well-glued domino joint is very strong - I’ve never had one fail in ~11 years of making cabinets with them. What jointing system are you sill using currently?
I have had the Domino ever since it first came out, I use it for so many things it is crazy, the best tool ever. I basically stopped using my Lamenolo biscuit when I got that. Bought the XL700 when it came out, great machine also, I got rid of my mortizer machine after that purchase.
I have only just now found your channel Peter, thanks very much for all the advice you give.
I am retired and just a diy thirsting for carpentry knowledge. Your channel along with Finish Carpentry, Inside Carpentry, And Dave Stanton have helped me out a lot.
Thank you, and welcome! 🙌
Well done, very nice review!!!
Great video! Thank you
I really wish the Mafell did much larger dowel sizes for some joinery.
I just made a support stand from 2x4 lumber, but used 5/8 or 16mm dowels with 1/4 lock pin dowels for all the joins. If the Mafell did larger dowel it would lend itself nicely to be able to cross drill smaller dowels for joinery this way.
I love my Domino nearly as much as my wife.
It’s ok, my wife understands 😁
😂👍👍
there is a rubber attachment you can buy that turns it into a sex toy for wifey , that's why she doesnt mind.
10 years from now, that Domino will still be joining boards together like a champ.
The wife ...............
@@paulwhite760 lol
I’ll stick with my Domino 500, the Zeta handles knock down builds better but I just can’t justify the cost for the small amount I do. Great review though, really detailed and non judgmental 👍 - and I love the fact that the Festool is the ‘cheap’ option 😂
Thanks! Yep, the Lamello’s great, but the most niche product ever. I did just fine with the domino for over 10 years, and if it wasn’t for a burning need for KD fittings (now just an ember, go figure) I’d still be using it exclusively. 👍👍
Thanks for video and for testing the Mafell (it's from my home town!)
Greetings from Germany!
Thanks! More Mafell to come, as well! 👍
Brilliant! 😃
Just looked up how the lamello cuts the t-slot. That’s very clever!
If I understand it right, the blade is narrower than the final slot, and it plunges in and then translates up and down?
I have none of them, I have owned a dewalt biscuit joiner for about 20 years now still working fine, and am very happy with it. I must say the original lamello biscuit joiner is more stable. When it breaks down I’ll look for something else.
Excellent video very informative thanks
Thanks! 👍👍
There are several projects where I would have preferred to use the Domino XL. However at this time I have a two dowelmax jigs with the accessories. The dowelmax can help make creative dowel placements for additional strength. The only downside I've found is that it's slow compared to the all the tools in this video.
Yep - time & money, always.. 🤷♂️👍
Seems that, with your specific needs quantifiable, it wasn't such a hard decision. This vlog/vid extremely useful for making that point. Cheers [just to be a thorn in your side, I'll say 'pocket holes' and run for cover! lol]
Cheers Keith. Given the speed of working, I’m afraid pocket holes don’t come into the equation; cheap though! 😂👍
Great job mate. No fat in the vid just clear info. All the best.
Cheers Stu! 👍👍
Great fact-filled video. Thanks. As complete as your "product list" link was I was hoping to find that handy bench hold-down clamp you used at time stamp 10:04.
Edit: After posting I saw the Festool green on the clamp handle. Yep. Festool Quick Clamp FS-HZ 160
Great comparison Peter. I have been awaiting a shoot out between the three industry leading jointing machines.
Thanks Mark! 👍
Another brilliant review..top notch
Thank you! 👍👍
I bought a DF500 a few month ago (your fault!) but what a gamechanger. Recently made two pine single beds for the grandchilden in just three days. It wasn't just the time saving but all 84 dominos lined up perfectly making the glue up virtually stress free, only having 10 min pva was a bit tight. All I need now is a T shirt "Proud to be a Domino Monkey".
Thanks David! Now that’s a t-shirt I ought to make 😂😂
excellent video!
Thanks! 👍
Very informational, thank you.
Thanks! 👍
Great video!
Thanks! 👍
Hi Peter, loved the review helped me make my choice between Domino and Duo,( Lamello not easily available or supported here in NZ). Great to get a non biased viewpoint, and interesting to hear your needs for knock down fittings as being preference. In the end I went for the Duo, as here in NZ it was actually cheaper than the Domino, and by the time i added in the various fences and guides was 25% more for the Domino. Although I do like the ability to allow some play in the Domino, you. can still achieve this with the Duo with a second cut if required, not as easy granted, but workable if you get it wrong as we all do! Also buying Dominoes here is expensive, and not always available, dowell's are cheap as chips and always available.
Thanks Ewen! Yes, things like pricing can vary so much depending on where you are on the globe! And I agree, dowels are very cheap, and, perhaps more importantly, available in lots of DIY-type stores so never really a big deal if you run out or decide to try an 8mm instead of a 6mm, whereas Dominos seem to be a much more specialised purchase. Glad the video helped, and thanks for taking the time to comment and let me know. Cheers, Peter 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yep price was in there, i had was about to get a Domino, as I had looked at the DD40P, but the MaxiMax DDF40 had every thing i needed, and can do 12m@40 so I can use it for bigger jobs. The side rail was the clincher, no need for the 800mm template guide, and the ability to do shelf pins(although i have drilled rails for that with router). Also I have the service agent (also my machinery supplier) right next door to my panel supplier, handy! Thanks again.
The lamelo is also now available in cordless. That may be a deciding part for some
Great product review
Thanks! 👍👍
Well done Peter... I know from listening to the podcast that this video’s been a while in the making but it was worth it. An excellent overview of these machines and I hope the view count reflects that.
Am kind of surprised you didn’t splice in the clip you shot of the Lamello cutter from the side that illustrated the wiggle so well (~4:50 in your first Lamello video)
As for the Mafell, My day job is in the aerospace business and I can assure you, getting 4 protruding dowels to mate with their opposing holes like you showed is no small feat.
I notice you had to give the Mafell a fair old push, too, when making the cuts. Hardly surprising with two cutters needing plunging but I wonder if that would be tiresome after a while?
Thanks Frank! I don’t generally like reusing bits of video, though I did have that clip in the edit originally; I couldn’t make the timing of it work though, as it’s shot in slo-mo it’s quite a long clip, and saying ‘proprietary cutter and clever engineering’ doesn’t take long to say at all, and in truth I was trying to keep this video as tight as I could as I knew it would run long. 🤷♂️ And yes, the Mafell took a surprising amount of effort to plunge; it’s been mentioned by a couple of other guys who’ve had the machine to, so it’s not just this one that’s affected.
Totally agree wrt the engineering - I bought and returned three Triton dowellers as they were woefully inadequate. 👍
Great vid, as always ;-)
Thanks Goran! 👍
Great informative video Peter, I wonder if you could do a piece about your dust extraction and hose setup and how it all links together. 👍
Thanks Andrew! I talk about it a bit in the workshop tour - video #066 👍👍
Great stuff. Thanks again.
I bought a couple of biscuit joiners after they went off patent. Great system, and the biscuits are easily available and cheap. Domino would have made it in the shop, except as an amateur who normally does real joinery, I can't justify it. If I was a lot younger I would get the worth out of it. But at 60, there is not enough utility for my needs.
I have used biscuits to destruction in certain applications, and all you need if they will not be strong enough is something like a dowel. The biscuits are super strong bond wise, but can in certain applications use extra support across the short axis. A dowel is poorly bonded, but strong across the axis.
I was not impressed at the quality of construction of Festool as revealed in AVE's deconstruction of their chop saw, so the money is not going into making solid tools, whereas my Dewalt and PC biscuit joiners are pro quality, and cost about 1/10th - 1/5th what Festool comes in at.
Also, there is no domino advantage strength wise in shallow penetration joints. I just made an easel where a plate of 3/4 ply is attached to side runners. There is only abou 1/2" to get a hold on, if you don't want the joints to print through, and no way the joint can be split off on the short axis. Bombproof in biscuits. Biscuits are faster to put in.
Domino's advantage is in frames, but those are high visibility and worth doing with real joinery Which is a lot stronger and integrates with raised panel joints better. Domino is still bond dependent, so the joints will still fail over time. It is still a sloppy fit in the x axis system.
What a big load of Bollocks.
All of these jointers are brilliant. I own all of them but each has their short comings. Another jointer to consider is the LNF20 biscuit jointer from Mafell and it comes in at half the price of the other machines.
Thanks! Never owned a biscuit jointer - went straight to the domino. 👍👍
What are the specific downsides of each machine?
That would be also something I would like to hear from you Peter in a upcoming video.
@@Mark_Dee
Downsides to Duo Jointer is that you cannot really do a single dowel joint as it will twist (depends on what you want the joint for), Biscuit joints are not as strong as dowel or domino joints, Domino Jointer registration paddles are not as good as pins on Duo Jointer.
Lamelo Zeta is available in Australia but pricetag maaatee!2500 Aud for this machine is crazy!Just letting you know Peter!
wow some serious kit! Guess im going to have to stay with my simple dowel jointer jig and buiscuit jointer for a while longer :) - Great food for thought though Peter
Cheers Graham! 👍👍
do you use the dowel gene?
Thanks for this video. I just bought the Mafell in Turkey and it's hard to find anything in English. I did pick up that Mafell is represented in the U.K. so I will try to Google that for some instructional video there. Thanks!
Question. Now that festool offers knock down connectors for the 500 do you still see the added value in also owning the lamello?
I have the domino 500 and like the knock down system. But the self clamping feature of the lamello seems like a huge money saver (in increased shop productivity)
Would love your thoughts on this
Short answer - yes. The clamex fittings are much better for general cabinet construction, though they are restricted in other areas eg narrow sections. The domino connect fittings also have their place, but I use them a lot less than I thought I would. Having both systems as an option is something of a luxury - but also good to have available. 👍👍
Hello Peter. I watched this video a year ago when it came out.... Not long after this came out a friend asked me to go to his cabin with him while he put together the kitchen cabinets he made. ( I was supposed to be fishing while he did the cabinets). He also has the domino and had already cut the domino slots and dry fit everything. We get there and he starts to put them together.... he has his clamps, dominos, etc all ready to go. Then realizes he forgot to bring wood glue. And the nearest store that has wood glue is a 40 minute drive. I noticed he had a bin of screws so we clamped up each cabinet and from inside the cabinet we drilled pilot holes through the cabinet and through the domino.Then put the screws in. And if it was a 90 degree corner we drilled it from the outside and inserted the screws through the exterior and into the domino. Each end cabinet had shaker style panel that went on each end and covered the exterior screws. Supposedly he was going to pull each cabinet out at a later date and glue them up but I know he hasn’t done that yet. He said they are strong as is and isn’t planning on gluing them now. Probably the cheapest knock down fastener I have used in a while... 😊
Ron
P.S. We did drill the pilot hole at a slight angle toward the connecting boards and used a depth stop on the drill bit and of course made sure that the screws were not too long. Also the face frames were 1 inch thick and the plywood cabinet carcase was 7/8” thick.
Good work! Draw-bore loose tenons, but with screws! 🙌👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop
Exactly. It worked great.
Hi Peter,
Another great episode..!!
Really enjoyed the reviews regarding these jointing machine's, but I'm at a loss as to why the likes of makita/ Dewalt and Bosch don't see any financial rewards in bringing a fit for purpose jointing machine to the market , say in the price range of £300 to £500 range !! I can't believe it's beyond their expertise to get something on the market in the very near future to rival the triton jointlng machine (price wise..!!) And not functioning ability or lack of it...!! I've seen plenty of reviews,
Must be killing the triton reputation ...!! As a serious contender in the power tool community,
Anyway I decress , thanks again for the review of those lovely looking machine's
If I come into some money in the near future I will buy all three ...!!
Cheers Gerry! It is a mystery as to why the Triton doweller is so poor when other machines they make are solid. They do seem determined to try and chase that particular price-point, and I’ve always said that there’s a clear space in the market for a ~£300-400 tool that does a solid job, at half the price of the Domino. 👍👍
Good video Peter . The only down fall I find with dowels is no wiggle room and sometimes you get a slight split in the mdf . Bit too tight really as others have said. But all 3 fantastic tools
Thanks Nathan. Yes, I did find the dowels split the MDF once in a while, and the lack of wiggle room is a downer, for sure. 👍
+Nathan Carp
The best jointer for MDF would be a biscuit jointer especially if doing cabinets maybe not so much if doing tables with it but it could still be used.
Domino jointer would be second to that for use in MDF construction. Duo Jointer is brilliant for using with Plywood and solid woods.
bighand69 I only really use the regular biscuit jointer for alignment .
The domino would pretty much be the buy for me .
Most of the cabinets I make from mdf I glue and screw .
Peter, another great video. You have much more experience and skill than I do but as I look at the 3 different machines, I get the sense that the Mafell is the more versatile machine and might be the least expensive depending upon what types of projects you are building. I was wondering about your thoughts on the following:
-The Zeta does a great job with it's knockdown connectors and that is its sole purpose. You also make some great points about the connectors, especially in relation to Festool's offering.
-The Domino does a great job and has the ability to make "sloppy" connections which means you don't have to be as accurate. The Domino can only perform its Domino trick.
-The Mafell does it's dowelling trick. The knock on it seems to be that it uses a high level of precision so your work needs to be more precise. (Kind of strange since all of these tools seem to make some kind of statement on being precise) However, one can also very easily get into the LR32 world with the Mafell at a much cheaper cost than you can going the Festool route requires their LR32 system along with a machine (router or drill) to make the holes.
You mention the Hafele 8/25 connectors as not being true knockdown but there are the 8/60 connectors that are true knockdown.So to me it looks like the more versatile and cheaper way to go would be the Mafell if you need both the joinery and LR32 capabilities. I don't own any of these machines so I'm hope you might provide your thoughts.
Thanks!(edited for formatting)
Thanks! I expand on this quite a bit more on the accompanying blog post at 10minuteworkshop.com - worth a read, perhaps? Short version - the Mafell is very versatile, but only if you’re just starting out; if you’re not, then you’re likely to have systems already in place for e.g. the 32mm shelf pin holes. Zeta is a one-trick pony, but does it very well. The Domino is IMHO the most versatile machine *for jointing* - none of the others have anywhere near the same range of pre-sets for fixing depth and thickness - never mind the width! It is a precision machine that lets you work loosely, which is a godsend in a busy workshop focussed on production ie generating income.
Also, have to ask, but did you watch all the way to the end? I dotalk about the Hafele ixconnect 8/60, particularly in relation to why I decided not to go with the Mafell. And having used it, I have to say it’s much harder work to use than either of the other two, in my opinion. They’re all great machines, but I’m happy with the decision I made. 👍👍
Peter, thank you for the very prompt reply. I had not checked out your website. I probably get fixed too much on YT and don't bother checking out a content creator's website. Great site and I recommend folks going there too!
I am more on the starting out side of things and am trying to wade through all of the options. If I need the joining and LR32 capabilities, the Mafele might be the right thing for me.
My mistake on the Hafele connector name. I saw it but didn't catch you mentioning the name. I'm not affiliated with Hafele either.
Once again, thank you very much for your reply and insights.
Peter you have done a wonderful job of proving that you must have all 3 machines as none of them are perfect in their own right.
Best sell the car and get spending! lol
Haha, thanks! Funny thing is I got along just fine for over a decade with ‘just’ a domino. 🤷♂️😂👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop As much as I hate to admit it I think the domino really is the superior machine as long as you don't want to do knock downs. It's well priced, including the consumables and will work on large or small projects.
Yep. I talk a bit more about it on the blog at 10minuteworkshop.com but using these other machines really brings home justice how good the domino was at launch - CIA that’s pretty much what you’re buying today, the sam domino that launched over a decade ago... 🤷♂️👍
Ooooooww!! Excellent! To my eyes for non knockdown have to be the mafell based on m cost of consumables?!! Just using the adapter in the 700 earlier but wanting for a smaller toy 😁🤣.
Hey Tom! I’d try and gets some hands on time with it first, especially in MDF; definitely harder work than the other two. 🤷♂️
Great video peter. Have you used the festool domino connector range? I’ve found them very useful and haven’t noticed you using them before, but I may of missed the video.
Thanks Michael! Yes, I did a ‘connect vs Clamex’ video a while back - link in the description or at the blog on 10minuteworkshop.com. 👍👍
'ecky thump. What a choice
(when you win the lottery).
At least you tested all three Peter. Thanks.
Excellent video as always Peter. I love my Domino but have always wanted a Lamello Zeta P2. I was happy when Festool came out their knock down fittings until I saw how fiddly they were and on the pricey side. The Lamello Clamex is easier and less costly. All of which you are already aware.
Does the new Mafell Duo Doweller use the same notched rail the older version did?
Cheers
Ron
Hi Ron and thanks! This doweller will work with the notched rail, but it also has a little plastic jig that works for the shelf-pin holes; I didn’t have one supplied unfortunately, so I couldn’t demo it, but there are Mafell videos out about it on TH-cam. 👍👍
Exactly 100.000 Subscribers 🙌🏼
Yeah! 😆👍👍
As always Peter, very informative but out of my league. It’s truly awesome how technology hadn’t changed in years and now in the last 15-20 years, WOW!
I distinctly remember reading the statement in the 70's in a car-related magazine that the state of the 4 cycle combustion engine had reached it's zenith; that there were little that could be done to improve on it. Then came variable and multiple cams, direct injection, common-place turbos, improvements on the fuel dispersion and computer-aided engine management.
Great video Peter and really interesting to see the pros and cons of each. After much serious thought and saving and thanks to your one handed domino video, I decided to order one from my local timber merchants who’ve just become a Festool dealer. It arrived on Wednesday and I’m at the ‘still just looking at it’ stage! 😀 Hopefully start to do some test pieces with it next week. Can I just ask, generally what setting do you have it on for the slight bit of wiggle room? I noticed there are increments between the settings. Cheers, Leo
Hi Leo, and congrats on the purchase! Re the width of mortise, the narrow setting will be a tight fit on the domino for whatever size but you’re using. The next two setting give progressively wider slots, so more wiggle room. There are only 3 widths - don’t try setting it between widths! They’re clearly click-stopped. Any Qs shoot me a message, OK? 👍👍
Leo, hope to see it very soon in one of your next vids 😁, you could use it for the "under the stairs" project 😁👍.
Great video Peter.
As you know I am a Domino user and have no experience of the other 2. But I absolutely love my Domino and for my methods and applications it suits me down to the ground. But a very informative overview on each tool. Nice job.
Thanks Chris! Domino’s a very versatile tool, and I wouldn’t want to be without mine. More on the pros and cons on the companion blog at 10minuteworkshop.com
Thanks Peter for your really nice and helpful videos.
I am planning on building a front door, probably using mahogany. Is the Festool jointer up to the task for this (larger model most likely: I'm thinking the smaller model might struggle). Can you expect appropriate strength from the dominos to deal with the abuse a front door (residential) is likely to see, compared to a traditional mortise and tenon approach ?
Thanks, and looking forward to more no-nonsense and practical content.
Thanks! For that scale of joinery then I’d be looking at the larger Domino XL - the smaller version I have will only plunge 28mm, the XL goes to 70mm, so much more suited to that kind of work 👍👍
Oh another great review, just got the df500, had the xl 700 for a while also the dd40 maximax so watched with great interest, by the way I never use the mafell.
Hi, why did you get rid of the XL? I'm in the same boat and considering exchanging for a 500!
Nic Harvey sorry I should’ve said I have the xl700 a while, and still do.
@@kir3dempsey wicked!
Good to see that you don't suddenly have a workshop full of Mafell tools, and that you made an honest review. :-)
Even if you don't need the knock down facility, the Lamello surely wins by the simple virtue of no glue mess, no drying time and no clamping? The cost differential of the fixings is going to be insignificant when priced into the job.
In theory yes, in practise no. Lamello recommend using adhesive with the Tenso and Clamex fittings, and the Tenso still need clamping, in my experience. And there’s no fitting for narrow stock - you need about 90mm minimum. More in this in the accompanying blog post at 10minuteworkshop.com👍👍
FESTOOL einfach super
Those hafele ix connect fittings SC 8/60 are 55mm long so a 15 mm plunge and a 40mm plunge would work with mafell
SC 8/60 requires one 45/46mm depth hole (check technical drawings on Hafele website).
I luv Mafell by the way
If you want to buy only ONE of those machines, heres my opinion:
- Doweller: quick, cheap, but you need prepare your wood with very high precision. 1/10mm! Wouldn't recommend for the hobbyist.
- Lamello: perfect for panels. quick, easy, allowes quite high tolerances if your board sizes don't match precisely. Lamellos can NOT be used within small parts (e.g. thin picture frames).
- Domino: quick, good for panels, even better for small parts. Most versatile of all machines. Allowes high precision or tolerance by the flick of a switch. Machine has no cheap alternative Manufacturers, Materials are expensive, too. Out of dominos at the weekend? No problem! I make my own domino dowels from longer scrap (>50cm). Pass it through the planer, round the edges an you can save a lot of money.
Brilliant video as usual. Can I request a video just on the Mafell DDF40. Its sparked my curiosity and looks like a viable alternative to the Domino
Thanks! I only had this one in loan, and have no intention of buying one, I’m afraid. 👍
Great comparison and superb camera work, is that with the new "Free Camera" Peter?
No such thing as a ‘free’ anything. But yes, the GH5 is outstanding - even the audio is better 🤷♂️👍
I own the domino XL and the zeta p2 I make a lot of of recycled Jarrah benchtops and I love 14mm dominos to join the pieces together
Remp kitchens use the Lamello fixings on their wall unit fillers. It is nice to just click it together.
Are those the tenso fittings? Still not getting mine quite as tight as I’d like - need to play some more! 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yes, just click them together but they are not what you would call tight either. They pull together well when clicked but there is quite a bit of movement. Works well in the situation Remp use them for though. Eggersman Kitchens use similar but has an Allan key tightener to lock it all up much stronger.
Thanks! Yeah the Clamex (Allen key ones) are brilliant - 80kg of pressure👌
i have the larger festool domino that thing can do a few more projects i think up to a 14mmx100mm dominos can really hold some weight.
Yep, big domino’s a different animal! 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I was able to find some aftermarket parts to make it use all the same cutters and dominos for then smaller machine. The only thing I will say as a negative is that its very large and doing smaller pieces takes a bit more thought and care.
Hi Peter, great video - thanks for comparing these. One thing you didn't mention is that I assume there is no adjustment or wiggleroom in the doweler? Like there is in the domino and zeta
There’s no wiggle room with dowels, no. And tbh precious little with the Zeta, +/- 0.5mm from memory.
Great comparison... although 2 weeks late for me - I just took the plunge (heehee) on a DF700xl. I just couldn't see the Doweller was anything other than Mafell's attempt to produce a competitor to the Domino without benefit of Festool's patents... and, to me, it just doesn't do the job anywhere near as well. For knock-down fixings, I can see the value of the Lamello (it really looks superb for that) but I'm not looking towards knock-down applications at present. The Festool can fulfil this role OK in the odd occasion I might ever need it, I hope/believe.
Thanks! Never used the big domino, but have handled one and the ergonomics are streets ahead if the original. 👍👍
It’s more festool copying, improving and using the mafell patent (the pins) on an old out of patent lamello platform
Great review Peter, regarding the IXConnectors there are shorter versions of it as well, see Häfele Ixconnect SC 8/25
Thanks Eric; unless I bought the wrong ones, the 8/25s are hammer-in fixings - they make a solid connection, but are one-time use only, so not the kind of knock-down fitting I was really after. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop And right you are!
I have never really got the Duo Dowel thing. It's two dowels. Judicious use of a tuppenny ha'ppenny jig comes to the same thing and I can still go on my holidays.
It is a machine that you can bang lots of projects out with. No need to start complex layouts. Just use the registration pins or guide system supplied.
What makes the Duo Dowel interesting and should be considered by people is that it can do the job of both the DF500 and DF700. In that it can do dowels up to 12mm down to 4mm. Which sort of sits in between the DF500 and DF700.
Now it has its downsides when compared to the Domino (one domino dowel will not twist and one round dowel will).
@@bighands69 Quite, they would not make them if no one found them efficient. I would not consider one, simply because my shop made system "bangs out" accurate work as quickly as I need and with a deal more flexibility.
@@gav2759
It really depends on what you are making and the price you are selling at. Some producers of furniture will be make one of pieces that sell for a premium so they can cost the use of slower work into the overall price.
Others may be doing work that is of a high quality but it may be time critical and cost critical so the extra man hours cannot be put into the price.
A duo Jointer is just as quick to use as a Domino and can do the job of both the domino DF500 and DF700. And that producer just may use the one size of dowel the whole time for tables, benches, cabinets, book cases and so on. They may also use it on site as well for jointing.
There is nothing wrong with a dowel jig but it is nowhere near as fast nor efficient as using a Duo Jointer but it is much cheaper.
Great Video, thx. Don't u think i might be possible to just get the drill a bitt more out or maybe find an drill with is 5mm longer than the standard drill? It probably won't fit in normal position,,?
Probably not tbh - it's not 'just a drill bit' they're specifically designed for this machine. 🤷♂️
Peter, it would be very interesting to see how a pocket driller thingy would compare head to head with these high end kit. Strength and accuracy?
About the same in strength but less time spent filling holes and sanding down with all these systems. If you were a contractor, time would be money, and these systems cut out the extra filling, gluing, and sanding time pocket screw holes need for a professional finish.
as normal a great video Peter - one thing to consider if you only have money for one machine though is face frames - the new ddf40 can now handle face frame assembly due to removing one doweller, the domino can obviously handle typical face frame styles, but the llamello Zeta P2 to the best of my knowledge wont manage a small enough size for typical face frames - is that still the case? if so, you are going to need to consider a second machine for face frame or an alternative tool of some sort.
Thanks Martin! I do mention the ‘narrow stock’ option on the Mafell, and I expand a bit more in the blog post at 10minuteworkshop.com. But I agree, the Lamello is lacking in this regard - I couldn’t use it as my only machine. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop oh yep, I watched the bit with the ddf40 around the narrow stock option. Its such a shame the llamello doesnt have some way of jointing small stock, I desperately want it but cannot justify the cost when it still has limitations as a one tool option. maybe I just need to save some extra pennies and have one of each like in the video ;-)
Thanks, as always, for a great and thoughtful video. May I ask - if you were starting out and not yet invested in any system (eg no LR 32 set up for shelf pins), and you could only afford one of these machines, would that push you toward the Mafell?
Thanks Alastair. Honestly, my experience with these three machines simply reinforces how good the Domino is. As clever as the system is, in terms of use the Mafell was my least favourite. There are many way to drill shelf pin holes, and the difference in price between the Mafell and the Domino would pay for most of them. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Great. Thanks. Was leaning toward the Mafell so will have to watch your domino videos and have a further think about it all then :) (Though I notice on the link you give to the DDF40 it's under £850 these days)
THX !
Thanks I'd like to mention that, biscuit joint is not good for high force tenon joint, and I see dowels in window frame loose might due to its limited glue surface, although I'm not afford the "cheapest" Festool. In US DF500 is 5~10X more than biscuit jointer.
Thanks. The Lamello Zeta isn’t a biscuit jointer - different animal. Yes, with a blade change and some messing around you can turn your ~£1300 Zeta into a biscuit jointer, but I wouldn’t - for all the reasons you point out! 👍👍
Thanks for this great comparison! When you showed the “wiggle room” on the domino, did you have a wider domino setting or the standard width? I’ve never owned or used one so I’m not super familiar with how tight the joint is laterally. Thanks!
Thanks James. The domino was in a narrow mortise on the end of the board, and a mid-size mortise on the face of the board.
Peter Millard thanks :)
Jamie Jessup
It has three width settings on the Festool Domino.
Jamie, I make my own dominoes and almost always I use the widest slot and make a Domino to fit it.
Thank you for sharing. Which of these tools holds the pieces together the best and ease of work? I am new to wood working but with COVID19 I am watching a lot of these shows.
You need to be a professional to use these machines. Wow, 1000 pounds = $1237 dollars. Nice equipment but ouch!
A surprising number of keen hobbyists have the domino and the doweller, I’m not so sure about the Lamello. To your first question, the domino would be my starting point at this level - best price if the three, and arguably the most versatile. They also hold their value exceptionally well - keep it for long enough and it’s effectively a free tool. 👍👍