The TS55 was my gateway drug. Unfortunately, when it was 6 months out of warranty the motor started smoking while I was cutting some 3/4" oak plywood. I sent it in expecting to pay for the repair, but Festool fixed and returned it for free. Unfortunately again, UPS dropped it and broke the base. I sent it back and rather than fix it Festool sent me a brand new saw as a replacement. Thank you, Festool. I love your videos. Thanks, Peter.
I mad the switch in 2013.. I know, I checked the receipt the other day. 7 years with absolutely no issues. I switched when I had TTS out because it kept thermaling out.Their rep told me is wasn't really designed for cutting oak worktops.. take from that what you will. Just before lock down my Mafell started playing up/ cutting out. I opened it up to check the connections inside and they were fine, so I sent it off to get mended. Turned out it was the plug.. pah.. no idea why i didn't check, but the great guys at Elliots lent me Festool to keep me going. I was panelling a room with Medite MR.. Holy shit the extraction on that thing was, quite frankly, rubbish. The amount of dust (using the new CTL Midi for both) against the Mafell is frightening, and cost me a lot of time in clean up and face masks... which you could buy then ;) I prefer the Festool tracks, of which I have all up to 5 meters, as you an plunge to full depth and use your left hand to hold in place - I rarely use the clamps. If I had to join them the mafell / bosch are a huge improvement, and whilst the chip strip is also better on the Mafell / Bosch, i change them regularly, so it's not a concern. I also use the rails with the festool routers, and being able to use both, is another win for the festool. Mafell also do a flexi rail that comes with the KSS300, which coils into systainer, which is opens up a load more possibilities as well as one less thing to carry. I also prefer the handle location of the Mafell, it's behind rather than above - think a D handle jigsaw against a barrel. The power from the Mafell is another league.. it's never wet me down, rip's in wet tanalised, it'll take it ll on, and with the blade change so easy, I switch between blades probably 4-5 times a day, from rough cuts to fine, ripping to cross cuts. you just don't thing about it. The Festool is a fine saw, but IMO since the Festo days the marketing department has had too much input, Mafell, on the other hand, are family owned and built for tradesman. no fluff, just rock solid and IMO the best money can buy.
Great post Matt, thanks for taking the time. Yes, I had the KSS300 with the flexi rail as well - great little saw! And agree about the rails for general use too - I also prefer the Festool rail for exactly your reasoning, and while I do like the Mafell joining system, it’s not somethignI do much these days as I also have longer rails. 👍👍
Hahaha "not designed for cutting oak worktops" .... so was it designed for mass foamboard rips? I have completely given up on tech support. The other day I emailed Bosch a question about how to determine if a certain model laser level will be compatible with a certain model laser receiver and listed certain specs listed in the manuals about laser wavelengths, laser class type, etc and she answers me by reiterating everything I said in my email and completely did not answer my question at all. These techs clearly have no experience with the tools that they are answering questions for. If it's not something that can be found on the website about the product, they just talk jibberish to try to sound like they're answering your question.
Hi Peter, I see this video was almost 2 years ago now but I thought of a couple of things people may find useful. First I recently saw that the latest Festool track saw replacement for the TS55 is using a thinner 1.8mm kerf (like the Mafell) instead of 2.2mm, but they never bothered to upgrade the motor to match. This thinner kerf obviously puts less strain on the motor, which is Festool’s attempt to appease those who feel it lacks power but without also matching the Mafell’s motor output. I bought the Mafell a while before you made this video and agonised over the differences for quite some time. To my surprise when the Mafell arrived it wasn’t 100% correctly aligned, meaning the cut line shifted over when cutting at an angle - Fair play to them, Mafell shorted it out immediately and even supplied me with new strips for all my rails so they could be cut to match the new blade alignment perfectly! Never had the issue you saw with scribing, so either the unit lent to you needs alignment, or something else moved. Interesting to watch this 2 years on all the same - Good stuff as usual 👍 Oh, one last idea - Avoid risking your warranty and instead use the Neutrik powercon True 1 connectors like the clever chap suggested on Bisch Basch Bosch TH-cam channel - cracking idea, and you can even create your own Festool style dust extraction hose with power integrated 😉
Hi, I own the cordless mafell, I fit a lot of kitchens week in week out, I have to make up corner posts out of melamine board which have to be bang on, the scoring cut on the mafell is a god send! White is the hardest colour to join but the gap is nothing like that one especially once fixed together, it really is hair line. I never hold the rail free hand, I use the clamps every time and it never disappoints. A friend of mine who is a kitchen fitter uses the festool, he has no issues with it other than it majorly lacks power. Good honest review though, just go with your instincts and choose the one you like the feel of and will suit you best. They're both top saws!
@@iiiiiieye I've never actually used a festool saw but I've seen them used, they produce a nice finish, I wouldn't bother with the corded version, I'd buy the 36v festool if that was what I was after. The mafell is only an 18v machine but still has plenty of power. The best thing to do is go have a look at them and see what you prefer the feel of.
Amazing video as always. I know this is 2 years later but I would add that I had had kickback once on the Mafell saw. I cut the damage off the rail and bought a full sized Bosch rail as it is half the price because it is blue rather than red. I have used Festool tools for years when I used to work for companies and I always admired them.....until I used a Mafell. I have always put Festool in 3rd place behind Mafell and Hilti. I ended up buying the Mafell saw after watching this video and visiting the tool centre to view one. Upon picking up the Mafell saw, straight away I just admired the build quality. It is built like a tank!! My other reason for buying the Mafell over the Festool was because of the tracks. Although the Festool was about £100 cheaper when I bought it, I would need to buy a longer track as they are just too fiddly to keep connecting, disconnecting and so on. To someone who doesn't use the saw that often, they would probably find that point laughable but to someone who uses it all day, the Mafell track was a huge game changer for me. Not only would I have to add about £350 onto the price for an extra 2.7m/3m rail, I would not easily be able to fit it in the van. (yes you did read that right, £350 and the 5m rail including VAT is close to a whopping £500!) This is not to say the Festool ts55 is not worth it by any means. Festool make seriously good tools and I do own a couple. This rail saw is the only Mafell tool that I currently own but I would consider more now. The only negative that I have found with the Mafell saw is the floppy dust port, just like the Festool which you mentioned in another video.
@@kevinchamberlain7928 It's all a question of money and how much you use that particular tool. If I was doing Peter's job, I'd probably have an up market one but I only use them occasionally.
Harvey Smith yes, multi platform batteries. I imagine also the Bosch batteries as mafell and Bosch are integrated. The Bosch have 12 amp hour battery. Correct me if I'm wrong on the Bosch battery. As Bosch have a same track fence system to maffel. I have the metabo batteries.
I agree with you, that it would be great to switch off that blade shift function, but on the other hand many people prefer a constant width hair line over chipout. Also it would most likely disappear in glued assemblies. At the end of the day you can still apply the same technique as with the Festool saw.
A very interesting comparison. I think both saws are brilliant but I bought my TS55EBQ before the Mafell was a twinkle in an engineer's eye. I have never had any problems with chipping on either side of the cut (even when I forget to drop the splinter guard!) and I simply cannot fault the saw in any way. As I sometimes need to cut thick sections of old reclaimed oak I also bought a larger saw, and the only real choice then was the Mafell KSP85. It is very powerful, cuts like the proverbial hot knife, runs on rails, plunges with a parallel lever operated mechanism and has a retractable riving knife( I'm old fashioned and I will not buy or use a circular saw that doesn't have one). Both saws are excellent for their intended use and I wouldn't swap either one for anything other than a direct replacement. The one area that I think festool does better than any other manufacturer is the systematized approach: once you've got the saw and rail, you have to get the extractor. And then the router with its rail attachment and before you know it you have a wall full of systainers and an empty bank account!
Really grateful for you taking the time to make such detailed videos. As a self employed carpenter/ joiner myself I know how demanding the job is, and to add video creation on top of that is really generous.
This video helped me decide to go for the Festool and I couldn’t be happier. The other reason for the festool is that did a project where I needed two different bevel cuts (half and half) along the same edge of the board. The accuracy was amazing due to the same pivot point when adjusting the angle of the cut. This is not the case with the Mafell so it was rather surprising that they haven’t figured this out. I even emailed Mafell asking this and then never responded. And finally, if anyone considers a perfect scoring cut with the festool, I set the depth to a couple of mm and run the saw backwards - always a perfect finish.
Proper scoring should always be a backwards cut so that theeth is biting the surface of the sheet into the material direction. The same way as scoring blade in profesional table saws is working.
Hi Peter, hope you’re well in these weird times. I replaced my TS55 with the MT55 around six months ago. I just got fed up with the gutless motor on the TS dropping into limp mode every time I cut a kitchen worktop or ripped the long edge of a 44mm door - which I do. An awful lot. And as for ripping hardwood any thicker than 40mm (even using the 12T Panther blade) - forget it - multiple shallow passes needed every time. I therefore respectfully disagree with what you say in this regard - and for me, the performance of a saw on full-depth rip cuts is totally critical. The MT does it all with ease. Horses for courses - but I’m delighted with mine. And tip of the day? For perfect splinter-free cuts either side of the line, make your initial scoring cut whilst running the saw backwards down the rail.That way, the teeth are cutting into the face of the laminate rather than bursting up through it. Have a nice day.
Hey Kevin. Yes, we’ll thanks - hope you are too. Sounds like the Mafell’s the saw for you, though as I say in the vid I haven’t had those issues. Out of interest, was yours 110 or 240v? 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop It was the 240 - most of my work is domestic. But I know a lot of site joiners who use 110, and as you say, the power problem seems to be even more pronounced on that version. For my purposes, the TS55 was always near-perfection for 18mm MDF and similar, but I guess it all just proves what a broad church woodworking is, and that one size is never going to fit all. All the best.
@@KevinBower-gy5be Quick question mate I do a lot of kitchens, do you find the mafell score cut 10th of a mm back to be an issue ? I can imagine I will just do a 1-2mm cut to start if it is, and can't imagine a 10th of a mm will be an issue lol but it will annoy me if I can see the line on MFC or MDF
Morning Joe. That tenth of a mil is only going to be an issue if the work’s being butted up to another piece - in which case it will be visible. I haven’t ever used the scoring function on the MT55 - I just use the 1-2mm backwards scoring method as described above. All the best.
The mafell seems much higher in cost than the festool as of today. This is in US dollars and considering a comparable set of working accessories. It is clearly a better performer , but the cost is stifling, even to a Festool user. You do make a very important point, how do these tools perform over time. I would like to see a 5 year old Mafell performance against a 5 year old Festool. Out of the box performance is all very good, but how am I going to feel about this investment 5 years from now. What parts break, how hard are they to get? These are the things that help us determine whether or not this was a good investment. It is the MTBUMA (mean time between unscheduled maintenance action) and MTTR (mean time to repair) that can make a difference.
I had a kick back on my Mafell MT55, it happened while plunging a bit too fast into 4 cm red oak. Luckily no harm to me or work piece but unfortunately it jumped out of track and mess up the track a bit and my underwear had to be changed afterwords. Also my particular MT55 was out of square on 0 degrees out of factory, there are 2 screws that you can fix this by yourself but on first few cats you need to check this. Scoring cut on laminates is a bit too much IMO and also mess up the rubber on track so if you use this do so on entire length of track otherwise you will end up with splinter guard that is not same on entire length and make hard to line up according to lines.
I bought the Mafell about 10 or so years ago. I went for it because for the most part the overall system seemed a bit better than the festool and the saw itself feels more industrial and less plasticky. Al these years on, it hasn’t changed my mind. The blade cover gives better dust control, esp if you flip down the plastic slide. The rails are a much better system. Rock solid and accurate joined to make a long length, better joining bar. My 3 metre festool rail drives me mad having to stick the edge strip back on constantly. Other things are marginally better too. On the score front, I thought it was designed more for bar fitting type work with ‘Formica’ type finishes joining at angles like 45° to give a perfect joint, rather than butt joints and Mafell recommended reverse scoring 2 or 3 mm as per standard with all other saws for butts etc? I would have a word with the importers about it to check. Kickback - yes, the Mafell can kick back. There’s many an owner with gouges in the tracks from it happening. Nearly always from starting on a plunge rather than running in and not having the blade quite up to full speed when cutting in. After all this time would I re buy the Mafell over the Festool? Yes. But you’d be happy with either.
Can you fit the Festool hoover to the Mafell plunge saw? or do you recommend a cheaper hoover that would fit the Mafell, the only reason I'm thinking of getting it is because on screwfix they offer 2 guides with the plunge saw 599£ price.
Hello Peter, Thanks for the comparison. I'v used a Festool TS55 for over 20 years now and I find the little Green block you slid in front of the blade to be extremely useful. First it reduces the chip out on the side of the cut, away from the rubber rail edge. Secondly, it also reduces the amount of dust being shot out the front of the saw. I think they come in packs of 5. When I have an expensive Vaneer to cut I install a brand new chip stopper because it is cut away by the blade and if you are only cutting 20 mm depth then that is the zero clearance you get, a couple of 55mm cuts and it doesn't have a zero clearance at the lower depths any more. That would be an interesting comparison to the Mafell scoring cut.
Makita have a simple lever that locks onto the track to prevent “tipping”when cutting bevels.It also helps hold the saw when using the track to trim the bottom of doors without removing the door from frame.Saves carrying saw horses around.
Tony McGirr it helps but there’s still some movement there that can ruin a bevel cut if you don’t keep the saw pressed to the track, shame as the cordless makita has a good amount of power for a battery saw
Thanks for taking the time to comment; I agree with no skills above; the Makita anti-tipping lip is to stop the saw tipping over *at the end of a cut* not for when you’re cutting the bevel - there’s too much play in it for that. 👍
Being immersed in work whereby all the chippies have either Festool of Mafell, I have used both. They both work fine but most chippies I have met all agree Mafell is of a higher build quality and a more robust tool. My Mafell reminds me of early Japanese Makita tools - extremely robust and bomb proof. I have seen issues arise with Festools - especially that riving knife. Nevertheless, don't let this put you off.
Hi Peter, your videos are always of interest, really great (also for a German ;-)). I have the Maffel my brother the Festool. I tested both and stayed with the Maffel. The saw does not wail when cutting, but pulls through and is more stable in construction. The scoring function cuts in the same line as the cut, only at a depth of 3 mm. The saw was well received by me, but is also easy to adjust myself. Most users, regardless of which manufacturer, do not clean their saws and are then surprised at a crooked cut. Care maintains value and precision. Mine is one of the first machines and runs and runs.
Hi Ringo and thanks! I think anybody would be really pleased to be given either of these saws. And if we buy them, then we have preferences, of course. I own the Festool, the Mafell is on loan to me. I can only test the saws I have, and I’m glad to hear your scoring cut works flawlessly; mine doesn’t, and I hope to find out why, soon. Best wishes from London! 👍👋
@@10MinuteWorkshop Hi Peter, I have learned electrical engineering and know how these machines look from the inside, how they are adjusted. Both machines Festool or Maffel are high end products, everyone who buys something gets quality. But the dealers are mostly sellers with an office background. You have no idea about the product, you now know the marketing blah and can break something quickly. Maffel has been around for a long time as a Festool, but the Maffel or Festool, which was considered normal, stood out in terms of technology and tolerance, thanks to Marketing Lümmel. Neither machine can get straight cuts with dirt in the right place. I'm assuming that the Maffel you got so everyone is allowed to screw and no matter part. Ergo, cleaning, aligning and adjusting -> and being happy! This applies to every machine whether Maffel, Festool, Bosch, Makita, Dewald or others. If you mistreat such high-quality products, you won't get a good result. Please continue to make such informative videos and greetings from Germany
@@10MinuteWorkshop sorry Peter if this seems a bit too easy as a solution. But to avoid the shifting of 0,1 mm can you just use the depth stop of the cut at 3mm let’s say instead of using the scoring function ?
Owned mafell for 3 plus years. The 240v version and it is superb. The only thing I would change is the ability to turn off the 10th of a mill cut thing, if you want to but joint worktops... Enough said, you can see it although never had a customer notice. Sometimes I just use the router. I have experienced kick back, it came up on to the rail, munched the chip strip and grazed the rail. I was cutting thinner board with a thinner support board underneath on saw horses. I'd say it was user error. Support this saw well.. But, keep your fingers away as if it they were closer to the saw, I'd probably be picking my nose with a few less fingers.
Festool makes nice tools. However, there's always some shortcoming that you have to buy an accessory or build a jig to overcome. Ripping narrow strips is an example. Not catching the hose on the rail during cuts is another. Unglued splinter guards is another. Fiddly rail connectors that don't self-align is another. The need to carry long rails for a straight cut is another. Dust collection using the dust bag on the Mafell is as good as the Festool with a vacuum. That being said, there are all sorts of clever contraptions people build or sell to integrate pieces of other Festool products for various situations. That's an advantage there, if you're into all that.
I find the scoring cut on the Mafell is fine when edge banding MFC. If I'm joining 2 edges or want perfect edges for MFC door fronts then I run a router with bearing guided flush trim to get rid of the offset. A little more processing but I find this much quicker than my old method of cutting with a tracksaw followed by using a router on the rail to take off a mm or so to get rid of any chips.
Kitchen fitter for many years and used lots of Plunge saws - the Festool doesn't have the power of some other saws and the rail system takes too long to connect for 3m+ runs, the bosch is excellent for the price as its a cheap mafell but the mafell is the best plunge saw ever made, best dust extraction, blade change and guide rail system. Its not much more than the festool but its noticeably better to use
I use a DeWalt tracksaw, and for cutting cheap mfc without any chip out, i make a scoring cut with the plunge depth set to 2mm and run the saw backwards starting at the end of the cut and pulling it towards me. I then flip the workpiece over and do the same thing in the waste side (if the waste side needs to be perfectly chip free). This gives 100% chip free cuts. A bit of a faff, but where something needs to be perfect, this method will do it.
What a I learned with my Festool for scoring: do the scoring cut with moving saw in opposite direction on the rail (only do this when cutting just several millimeters for scoring, never for deep cuts, dangerous). Then do the deep cut after in normal direction. With this scoring technic you get cleaner results, because with reverse pulling direction for scoring your saw teeth press the top layer into the wood while cutting, and do not try to peel it of like at the normal cut direction. (For the bottom side of the wood relation is reverse, so normal direction gets clean results because saw blade rotation direction)
Excellent review, thanks Peter. I own the corded version of the Mafell MT55 and it's "The dogs danglees" I am however a total Amateur .What I can tell you however is that if you intend to use the Mafell , as I had intended , with the Track Rail ,non cutting side, butted up against 2 Benchdogs in your MTF Bench Top, as Illustrated on various TH-cam Videos , you cannot do this as the edge of the Mafell Saw overhangs the rail Guide on the Non Cutting side! This means the saw Body hits against the bench stops.I hope I have explained this clearly !? The Festool Rail Guide is much wider and the TS55 saw Body is set back from from the edge of the rail allowing the saw to pass any Benchdog which the rail is butted up against! It's my only disappointment with the tool and it may not be an issue for most users.I just thought some people may be interested in this property of the Mafell Track system. Yes you can use the Mafell in a Festool track but you need to unscrew 4 small Torx screws every time to remove a piece of plastic from the underside of the Mafell body. It fits the festool Track very well no issues there but its annoying. Also it may be of interest that the Bosch GKT 55 GCE 160mm Plunge Saw appears to be the exact same saw apart from not having the hinged door for blade changing (its an Older? model which you still find on for sale on that big auction site!) Its half the price of the Mafell.The Bosch Track is exactly the same the Mafell is just a rebranded version.The new Bosch Track clamps are the same but priced lower than the Mafell equivalent. The Bosch GKT 55 GCE 160mm Plunge Saw may not have the scoring feature? or the hinged door but they look identical otherwise. Again I have no use for the Scoring feature so cannot comment.I have mainly been cutting sheet MDF and Plywood building Guitar Amplifier Cabinets.I'm also not in the UK so my price experience may be different than yours. Again I must emphasis I am not a professional woodworker but the Mafell is a joy to use.I also own a Mafell DDF40 Duo Doweller which is precision in the extreme.
Thanks! I do cover a few of these things in the ‘further thoughts’ video on my patreon; you can also use the low-profile dogs (benchtop protectors) for the Mafell or Bosch rails, btw. And yes, Mafell make the rails and some of the parts for the Bosch saw, but it is assembled by Bosch in a separate factory, I believe. 👍👍
Have owned and used Makita for 5 years and would recommend to anyone. Makita motors are undeniably stronger and more powerful. I do like the twist plug of the Festool but since I purchased the new battery powered Makita the corded version is my back up.
Makita is great. It just does the job for a reasonable price. I don't see the need in overpaying for over engineered crap like proprietary power plugs, dedicated batteries for each tool etc. And I'm making a living by using my tools. Now I'm in the market for a fixed base 1/2 inch router, but unfortunately Makita doesn't sell one in EU, so I have to look elsewhere - and the only one in EU is Bosch Blue :(
I have had the Mafell for two years and love it it took me months to decide mafell or festool and it was the rails which sold it to me. I fit high end kitchens ie siematic and cutting fillers etc no problem at all with out scoring.
Good to know, thanks Mark - and I’m not surprised the decision took a while, it’s a very personal thing, and very fine margins between the two systems. 👍👍
When I do a scoring cut I was always shown to run the saw backwards down the rail first, then the blade runs the opposite way with the teeth going down into the face by a couple of mm rather than out of it (like the rotation of a scoring blade on a full size table saw) then finish with a full depth cut as normal pushing forwards.
My first cut using a new Mafell saw and rail kicked back. The waste edge was overhanging the edge of the workbench, and as I neared the end of the cut the waste edge twisted the kerf closed and the saw jumped, cutting the brand new rail. The waste piece/kerf jump thing has happened a few times as I often let the waste edge fall free to the floor. Due to this, I keep a shim to wedge overhanging waste edges while I cut. Score 1 for the Festool riving knife. Otherwise, after getting the Mafell saw I have no desire to use my Festool saws again.
Had to make the same decision some years ago (hobby use only). You can‘t go wrong with either - both of them have their pros and cons. At that time I haven‘t had the chance to do testcuts etc. - I could only hold and inspect them for some minutes. I've choosen the mafell. For some reason the festool felt like a toy compared to the mafell. The tilt mechanism is absolutely great, blade change too. However, there some things I don‘t like about it. If you do bevel cuts, it doesn‘t cut exactly on the edge of the splinter guard. It cuts slightly offset by 1-2mm - perhaps you can check that with your saw. The track doesn‘t cover the width of the base plate on the left side - means you can‘t use the track‘s edge as a fence or stop (don‘t know the correct wording). I also miss the possibility to add tools to the track. On the other hand you can use the festool tracks to remedy those two problems (well, with all the drawbacks the festool ones have 😄). The festool offers more freedom in blade selection, but I had no problems with the mafell ones. I use the 32 toothed one for every day use. Other than that, I love the mafell and it‘s always a pleasure to work with it.
Yes, there’s a ‘further thoughts’ video out for my Patreon on Sunday where I get into a few other niggles. Both great saws, pros and cons to each, and very subjective depending on your useage. 👍👍
If you have many tools that require dust collection (saw, sander, router,...) the plug it system is gold. I own a Festool sander and retrofitted my other tools to the system, because it is just so convenient. When you are on a tight budget, you might want to take the costs of retrofitting this system into account. (I found no warranty void stickers or anything like that on my Mafell saw, so as long as you keep the original power cord and fit it back on before you send the saw in for warranty, I think you're good)
I have never checked out the Mafell, but when I compared the Makita to the Fesstool, the Makita was smaller, more powerful, cut just as well and half the price. For the same price as a single Fesstool I have a complete Makita of set 2 rail lengths and a saw in my shop and another complete set for my truck. They get allot of abuse and they have always worked flawlessly. I think I might get another set for my service mini van.
I'm in the same boat. I run the 36 volt Makita which is pretty decent and with its own scribe mechanism. the only thing I miss from the festool is its depth stop arrangement. I've used all the major manufacturers saws and in my view there's really not much difference in any of them..(the DeWalt takes more getting use to because of the way it plunges.
I’ve run with festool for about 8 years. I have the routers, plainer, carvex jigsaw and kapex 120(recently stolen). So i love what festool do. I now run the mafell saw however. Mostly for the reasons you give. The rail is far better but mainly the power cut off when hot drives me mad. It’s mostly when doing rip cuts with the outstanding rip fence this would be a problem but it was the finish for me when using a friend Bosch saw which didn’t suffer the same. I went mafell over Bosch but the Bosch is a great saw to. The festool is still a good saw which is why I’ve kept it but mafell is my first choice.
Hi Peter I find with the gap created by the scoring cut gets filled with glue or finish. hasn't been a problem for me. Plus your offset looked more than, .1of a millimetre. I do find with the Mafell that occasionally I get blade wobble with the thinner blades. I have several different blades to cut different materials, but I am getting blade wobble. to cure the problem of the scoring offset set the depth stop to 3mm. job done.
Hi Stephen. Yes - as I say, it’s more of an issue in MFC. And yes, the offset is more like 0.3mm - there’s a ‘more thoughts’ video on my patreon channel, btw. 👍👍
Would you not shift the 10th over first and then take a full plunge cut without the step over. Basically final cut is only a tenth? I have ts55 it’s nice but sometimes you got to use it freestyle and you cannot do that on these saws. Hilti is still good rival however parts are hard to get hold off
Peter Millard. Thanks Peter. On site when I need to rip down sheet material for rough work I find the festool cumbersome. Not boasting myself but I can get considerably straight line without railguide on my hilti. This is because I can see the blade and find it’s lighter. Obviously I go to the festool on kitchen worktops etc. However before the festool I was using my hilti and it done just as good a job. With sharp blades off course. I just can’t justify the prices anymore. Ultimately a good jig will make a cheap circular saw just as good. Enjoying your videos Peter. Many thanks.
Well after watching a previous video I went for the Titan but they didn't have any so I bought the Mac Alister which is infact the Titan . I'm not a carpenter I'm a retired bricky so woodworking is a hobby of mine one I'm fond of but buying a plunge saw is a bloody mine field . But I'm quite happy . thanks for your advice 👍
Uhhhh! Did I see the Festool saw kick back? That happened to me once, where it scored right across the track. It also caused the alignment to be slightly skewed. This was caused by the way the hose from the vac hooked to the saw in a fixed position in the older models. The upgrade to the multi position is much better, and can be retro fitted.
your'e correct about the festo guiderail , and I made a 4 meter ruler with some angleline to hold the outer edge of the festo-rail , budget ! only €24 and no more screws inside the rail that not only get ugly ,but also connect in such croocket way you can build ships without any drawings. second I also sanded off the ends of the festo rail smooth so no dusthose can get stuck nor the cable gets stuck in the connector grooves.... , and third... how can you compair saw quality when you use a dull blade .. and how can you compair without changing the speed festo has a very nice speedcontrol and especialy on chipboard it makes a big difference. nice review , no music !!
So you compared the scoring cut vs. just one pass full through, but you did not mention anything about the "reverse" scoring cut method where you move the saw backwards for the scoring cut. I would just really like to know if it makes any difference.
In my experience the ‘reverse scoring’ cut is a waste of time; I’ve tried it, and got a better cut just with a straight cut. Impromptu scoring cut in the festool was always better. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you! Personally, I have the Dewalt plunge saw and I have mostly only worked with full wood and for my own furniture or other projects, and been just really happy with it, so I have never really even used a scoring cut :) and never bothered to test it really because the normal cut has been perfect for me, but good to know.
I have the Festool. If you want to do a scoring cut with it, then what i do is set it to 3mm or so and then do a reverse cut, ie start at the end and pull the saw backwards. Then i set it to the depth of whatever i am cutting and cut forwards as normal. I have done that for years now and have never used the 48 tooth blade, the only ones i use are the 12 and 28 tooth blades. Using the 28 tooth blade as described i have cut many £500 laminated doors without a hint of chipping. :) I noticed you were using the clear blade guard cover, using the green version increases the dust collection, i use it on mine along with the 36mm hose and the dust collection is on par with the mafell.
All of these saws kick back because they share a fundamental design mistake. They plunge/hinge from the rear rather than the front, like my old Elu MH25 did. This means that when you plunge it into the timber, it tries to cut down with the back of the blade, where the teeth are going down rather that up, so the movement works against you. Think about how we would 'plunge' a normal skillsaw into timber. We would rest it at the front and pivot it down, not at the back.
Love this video I have owned festool dewalt and Bosch track saws. Being a kitchen cabinet installer I prefer the Bosch / Mafel tracks I found the Bosch saw works very well the waste side cut is worse as noted on the mafel/ Bosch than the festool The connector for the mafel / Bosch is so much better. I like that the Bosch scoring cut doesn’t do the blade shift the mafel does.
One downside of the Mafel/Bosch rail is the base of the saw overhangs the non-blade side of the rail,so the saw will clash with bench dogs if using these to position the rail. A spacer strip overcomes this but it is a tedious annoyance!
Yes, this was mentioned in the patreon-only 'further thoughts' video; you can use the low-profile bench dogs (' bench top protectors' here - bit.ly/bench-dogs) they work well; use the offer code "10minuteworkshop" at checkout for 5% discount. 👍
The mafell is faultless.Run new blades through a off cut of worktop a couple of times first you will then get a perfect cut. My scribe offset doesn’t seem so big as yours but if it’s a problem turn the material over
Quick question for you, please. I am almost convinced that I am going down the Mafell path, but the question I have is, rather than use the scoring clip, which produces a 10th of a millimetre gap, can you not do what you did with the Festool and just do a 3mm precut?
I made the same decisions years ago. You pointed out the same things I noticed back in the days... Finally I went to the Festool System. Overall it is more worth the money. But the Maffel is really great, no doubt. But d finnaly this is a system decision. You get the best benefit if most of the parts are from the same system.
I've never used the scoring feature on the Mafell, mostly because I don't want to cut back my splinter guard (even by a 10th of a mm)... because that's what I use to line up all cuts. And because I agree with you that there's really no need for it.
Surprised you didn’t tape the Festool “blade window” and redo the dust collection test to see if that simple fix brought the Festool in line with the Magellan dust collection
I sold my festool ts55 and bought a mafell. Love it! The downside is that mafell are abit more hands off when it comes to setting up the tool, and there's generally less info around. I have had some difficulty getting it to cut perfectly at 90 degrees when set to 0 on the gauge (very slight bevel). Apart from that it's been great.
Interesting. Had a pal switch from Festool to Mafell and his MT55 wouldn’t cut a 45 bevel - he had trouble getting it changed ‘cos it’s not the kind of thing you’d check for straight away. 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop there's been a few cases of "unusual" angle problems. I fixed mine with a doubled-up layer of gaffer tape. A particularly lofi method, but I haven't been able to face taking out all the piddly screws and trying to create a washer thin enough.
Thanks Peter for yet another practical, professional, and plain powerful and soooo helpful presentation. As I've said before, I just don't know where you find the time to do so much to contribute to the woodworking community with your knowledge, expertise and downright bloody personable presentations. Unlike most of this community, having spent 30 years recording and editing audio and a good few years producing videos, I know just how much time it takes. No doubt the vast majority of your viewers think that, "well it's a 10 minute video, can't take more than 15 minutes to create.........WRONG ! ! ! I know you'll agree that it will take a minimum of a couple of hours to set up all the different shots, get the camera angles right, the lighting, the sound etc etc etc. Then, editing will add at the very least another 30 minutes to as much as 3 hours or more, depending upon the complexity. So, a HUGE thank you for all your stellar efforts ! No telling how many people are extremely grateful to be shown examples of how to do/make stuff and what tools to use to attain the professional quality you give to everything you do. Yer a Peter among Pete's 😀. Oh, and by the way, just ordered my very first Festool product, the TS 55 FEBQ-PLUS and am relishing tomorrow or Sunday when I'll finally get my hot little hands on the green and black Rolls Royce. Have been using a Parkside for a while but...............just not good enough. That's all I'll say : )
I own the ts55, have always liked the mafell as well. to get over the 1/10 of a mm you can just set the plunge depth to 5mm, just like you can on the ts55 to create a scoring cut. with the quick adjustment of the depth it isn't much of a pain to do. the guide rails for the mafell are much superior.
Of course - but, ‘buy a dog & bark yourself’ springs to mind! 😂 I think the Mafell rail jointing is better, not so sure about the rails themselves. 🤷♂️👍👍
A very good comparison video thanks Peter. Especially good to see the gap created by the Mafell scoring feature. It presumably has a couple of other downsides: once activated, the rubber splinter guard has been cut slightly off the main cut line which may slightly compromise the quality of cut if you subsequently stick with the manual scoring cut (hand spacer method!) to avoid the offset. Also it makes sense that the waste side piece would have worse chipping after using the offset scoring cut, because the final waste side cut is a full depth cut pulling the teeth up through that face a fraction of a mm further into the face which is bound to cause more chip out. So in short this helps me to conclude that the extra Mafell scoring cut feature is a false benefit (which is the same as how I now view the angle top stop on the Makita!). I’d be interested to know how you rate the long term durability of the Mafell baseplate’s gripping mechanism onto its rail - tightness vs smoothness - as this was a noticeable downside I discovered in the makita vs the festool. For me, my confidence in the Festool machines has been renewed - good solid design - although I would like to have the improved dust collection offered by the Mafell. Thanks for your efforts. (I’ve just done my first tool review style video and it took me AGES to edit, I think I will plan and script it better next time!!! I could learn some lessons from your snappy feature summary at the start of this video, with relevant B roll dropped in 👍)
Thanks Alastair! Yes, I wanted to take a closer look at the scoring on the Mafell because I’d had a couple of people mention the ‘gappiness’ as being an issue for them. Obviously we can only test the saws we have - this Mafell’s a demo unit on loan, so I’d expect it to be fairly recent and in decent nick - hard to imagine a demo machine having a harder life than a saw in a busy workshop - but equally I’ve also had a couple of people say that they have no problem with the scoring cut on their saws… 🤷♂️I need to look at the Mafell rails again, but I’m pretty sure that they’re metal-on-metal, so I’d expect wear to be a factor longer-term, but that said it was a very snug and smooth fit on the skinny upright that the Mafell rails have to locate the saw. I do like the Mafell rail-joining method, but it’s not something I do much these days, and overall I prefer the Festool rails with the extra width; wouldn’t say no to a T-slot closer to the splinter guard though! Dust collection on the Mafell is better, but as mentioned in the vid, putting a length of tape over the access hole on the Festool makes a big difference. And thanks, yes, I saw your vid - we should probably start a shared calendar, lol! - and enjoyed it; I do find that scripting it really helps get the points across though, and avoid the rambling. And yes, shooting cutaways / b roll is a great way to keep the pace up - though it is time-consuming to do. Cheers, Peter. 👍
Great comparison, but I wonder how the newest version of the Festool measures up. They got rid of the riving knife and have something similar to avoid kickback. I also believe there is something about scoring the cut in reverse on the Festool, but don't quote me on that.
good afternoon peter hope you are well..........i purchased a Makita track saw 10 years ago still going strong , the big problem with it, the blade changed it to a Freud blade what a game changer fantastic I then changed my Dewalt table saw to a Freud blade totally different it improved it so much and I watched Gosforth handy man do the same I'm sure he copied me . try fitting a Makita rubber edge never peeled . when I change mine its a struggle to get in off. would be nice to see a 10 minute workshop on saw blades
Thanks Anthomy. If you watch the Tracksaw Workshop series I recommend fitting the Makita splinter guards as well, and I cover quite a few alternative blades too - and use those same blades in my Festool in this video - More about blades, th-cam.com/video/jR25DirM34E/w-d-xo.html 👍
It didn't come up in your video as you use an MFT but my understanding is that the bosch and mafell don't work well with bench dogs as the motor fouls on the dogs on their own rails.
The first track saw I bought was the Festool some 15 years ago. I sold the TS55 and bought the Mafell just after it came out but after a few years of use I ended up going back to the Festool. The main reason was Festool's superior service and back-up. It took an age to get replacement parts or service for the Mafell. When deciding what machine is the best that's a huge consideration.
"The old trick of peeling the splinter guard off and edging it over". Crikey, thats so obvious why on earth have I never thought to do it. Nice one Peter.
my experience is once you try to move it over, it never sticks the same again. I hate the way the strip peels off at the end. The mafell/bosch is much more superior in that regard. One thing that wasn't discussed was the Mafell rail is quite a bit narrower, to the point where if you use the Axminster super dogs as a fence system, the motor housing on the Mafell hits the dogs. Not a problem with the Festool The short answer is to cut along the length of the mft with a longer rail than needed so the cut is finished before you run out of real estate. A bit of pain and it's going to necessitate me getting a second rail with the connector for longer cuts but having extra rails is always a good idea.
As a diy woodworker none of these high end saws perform significantly well enough over cheaper variants to justify the prices that they charge, I use a makita track with a triton plunge saw, polar opposite to these two, but once yo know your tool, with care and correct blade choice you can achieve good results, the high end saws may be more robust electrically and or mechanically but so far I’m 5 years in with no problems, but then I don’t abuse my tools . Also festoon/ makita really should address the rail joining issue , reminds me off a particularly bad piece of scalextric track !!!
I’m a huge fan of tracksaws, at every level and price point - but especially the entry level saws that we have access to in abundance here in the UK / EU. But if you are looking for a higher-end saw - and if you ever needed to use one for any length of time then you’d appreciate the difference - then this video makes that comparison. Lots of other comparisons on the channel, and all my tracksaw videos are in a playlist here - bit.ly/TracksawWorkshop 👍👍
Thank you, watched this several times before making my purchase decision, Went Mafell as guides were more useful, one shorter one longer than festool which gave me versitilty. Very pleased with performance of it.
@@10MinuteWorkshop Your review was superb, Mr. Millard There are a lot of favorable reviews here in the States preferring the cordless Makita over the cordless Festool. Not my line of work, but it's interesting to watch and learn.
I settled on the Bosch, having tried the Titan/Erbauer and returned it as it was just not good enough, and as I couldn't justify the cost of Festool for my needs. I'm realy pleased with it and it has made my table saw more or less redundant ( which is a blessing as its a cheap Clarke antique ). I have put the aftermarket plugs on all my powertools per Bisch Basch Bosch, and I understand that it does not affect warranty ( although if I had to send it back I'd probably have to send a lead too ) Dust collection could be better, and if I used it daily, would become an issue, but thats all. Love the tracks, and also have Bosch Routers with track adaptors
Its Bosch for me I'm afraid. Its has pretty much everything a Mafell has including the excellent track connection system. However you don't pay the extra 200 quid. I know Festool are excellent bits of kit and I would love a domino cutter... but other than that I just don't like them... the look of them to me isn't great. I guess we all have our likes and its hard to get over those. I do hope you went Mafell... will find out at the end ...
tormenting360 I started with the Bosch and it is still my site saw however the mafell that is my workshop saw has way more grunt and I find it a lot easier to use and get better results, the Bosch is still great however
@@trieditusedit5846 I agree the Mafell surely has more power. I tend to do wood work as a hobby so for me the power isn't an issue. Doing this type of work every day would call for some more grunt for sure! Nice to see constructive chatter in the comments. Shame Bosch drills and impact drivers aren't the best... I have a Bosch table site saw and its lovely too (after buying a better blade)
Question - the festool website advertises some of their saws as "plunge saw" and some as "track saw." Are plunge saws just track saws that can do plunge cuts and track saws don't?
Without seeing the site, I’d imagine they’re referring to the different ranges of saws eg the TS saws vs the HK; TS saws are plunge saws meant for ‘finer’ woodworking eg cabinetry, the HK saws more for construction/ carpentry. You can use the HK saws for plunge cuts, but it’s not their intended use. HTH. P
For a super clean cut I make the scoring cut backwards, with the direction of the blade. This way, the top layer is supported by the material underneath, instead of the teeth kicking up on the top layer. (If that all makes sense)
Thanks! Yes, I’ve done the reverse scoring cut before; the test wasn’t really about getting a clean cut though, it was about seeing how they cut in ‘normal’ use especially in comparison to the Mafell scoring cut. 👍👍
Thanks for this video. I’m trying to make the decision Seems to me, with the mafell, you could use the same technique you use with your festool of lunging by bracing your hand. On the first shallow cut. Am I correct?
I guess you could just duplicate what you do on the Festool Scribing cut, when scribing on the Mafell, so without having to use the special offset devise on the Mafell you should still get a nice finish without any "offset"Gap appearance. Just a thought !!! Love your videos , very informative, keep up the good work. Cheers From Australia...
That wouldn't work as the tenth of the mm offset is built into the plunge, the blade moves over that tenth on every plunge after it passes the scoring depth. All the score switch does is stop it at scoring depth. So even if you just set the depth to 3 mm and didn't use the switch it still moves over a tenth.
Biggsy1970 Thats not correct, the switch sets the depth and moves the blade over a fraction. If you don't use the switch it doesn't offset at all. Actually thats the bigger criticism of the mafell because if you use the score cut it cuts into the rails splinter guard by a tenth of a mm, so affects the accuracy of the cut in relation to the splinter guard by a fraction for any future cuts. It is however probably the only saw you can get a chip free cut from even if you don't have a guide rail to hand by using the scoring facility. I have the mafell and two festool plunge saws, and generally find the mafell is the better quality saw however the festool splinter guard to the offset side of the blade is more useful and a must when doing hob or sink cut outs if your blade has started to dull.
Hi, just something I wanted to share. Had to cut some melamine panels at work a month ago but I didn't have my festool with me (there was no need for it so far as my jobs on that site mostly included flooring- subfloor, finishings, and metal frame ceilings/partitions + plasterboard. However that week the kitchen fitters quit and there were few urgent jobs to be done that included melamine panels so I was asked to do few extras towards snagging). So I had to borrow a plunge saw off another joiner on site who was cutting replacement shelves for kithcen units (happened to be dewalt). Right in the beginning he said that his blade was pretty worn off and complained about the amount of chipping he was getting while cutting melamine panels. I had a look at the shelves he cut- disaster, nearly looked like they were cut with a framing saw blade. However, having not much other options, I decided to try anyway. Decided to do a test piece at super-slow speed first, and if that didn't work, I planned to use masking tape on the cut to try to get a slightly better finish. I didn;t get to try the tape- while going extremely slow, I was able to get a relatively clean cut (not perfect of course but it exceeded my expectations). I'm curious about whether you experienced similar improvement yourself. thx
Hi, and thanks for sharing. No, I’ve never tried that - I’ll have to give it a go! Must admit I rarely use anything but top speed, but I’ll have a play and see, thanks! 👍👍
Hi Peter, just bought a Bosch 18v pro cordless circular saw, and it uses the Bosch FSN tracksaw rail. They look to me to be identical to the Mafell track rails. Bosch also uses the same rail connector as Mafell does. Might be an idea to check if they're interchangeable.
Good honest video peter, I have had the mafell for 5 years now, I use it exclusively for kitchen fitting and wouldn’t change it, once you have had it a while little things like how little overhang is needed on the track to start and finish a cut and the one handed balance really shine
When the festool stops, it must rest to be able to use the saw again, with the mafell it is enough to release the switch, with the festool you need to replace the rubber on the guide more often, because the saw eats it. a narrower guide system results in greater comfort and speed of work (mafell) . much more accurate side saw guide (mafell) ... and many more things, but only a person who works a lot on these saws and a person who cares about the speed of the work can pick them up( mafell)
@@10MinuteWorkshop ...because you don't use them often. everyone knows that when the festoll is turned off, it must "rest" in order for the power to work further, and the mafell cuts further after releasing the switch, how can you not notice it ..?I suggest that I take two of my mafell saws (240 and 110v) two festool (240 110v) plus two Bosch (240 110v) and Makita 240v to you and together with your saws we will record a joint video on your TH-cam, from the test of what I am talking about . agreement ?
I have both saws and use the mafell for laminated MDF sheets only. The scoring function works perfectly and doesn’t have the gap on the panels we cut . I gave both saws a comparison by fitting a new blade and splinter guard to the Festool the mafell is better in every department.
I bought a nearly new Festool from Craigslist. The track splinter guide strip is attached using a self adhesive and is not holding on well. The saw also has weak power even without any extension cord. Not thrilled about how it rips even with a new rip blade. Bought a dewalt circular saw and used a clamp guide and much more satisfied. Do love the depth of plunge however on festool.
As you know Peter I have both, my tools are all 110v and yes the Festool has always felt underpowered but I've just allowed for it by going slower and taking two passed. The mafell to me is much better on MFC with the score but I learnt early on not to use the score if butting panels ie a joint on island back panels. My mafell had kicked back a few times and my rails have a few scars, it's not as forgiving as the Festool if you're not concentrating.
That’s interesting, Chris, thanks! Was your Mafell one of the ones that had issues with the bevel cut? I knew a couple of guys who had that problem around the same time. 👍👍🤔
@@10MinuteWorkshop yeah I got mine replaced, they wanted to send it off to Germany to be fixed but I insisted on a new saw. Its still a mm or 2 off the edge on bevel but it is what it is. I think the rest of the saw makes up for it.
Good review Peter. Mafell sells that anti kickback attachment for the rails too, but it's between 20€ and 30€ (no idea what the Festool one costs) I purchased the Mafell saw for the easier blade change and better dust collection (you can improve the Festool saw to the same level with a piece of masking tape), the short 80cm rail and the stronger motor (I had my kitchen build ahead of me with 40mm thick rubberwood countertops and a 120m² flooring to do in the house). With the tracks I'm not sold to any of them, both have their good things and their bad things, I like the Festool clamps more than the Mafell screw clamps which tend to bend and jam in the rails. With the Mafell rails the one handed quick clamps work best. I retrofitted my saw with a Festool Plug It adapter for more convenient use with my shop vac (hose and plug it cord run in a common cable sleeve to avoid snagging, thanks for the idea to Dave Stanton ) So far I'm happy with the Mafell and I think the Festool saw will provide similar quality.
Thanks Jesus; yes, I do mention the ‘tape over the hole’ method to improve dc on the Festool, and while I agree that I could simply not use the scoring function on the Mafell, that’s a bit like having a dog and barking yourself! But I liked the Mafell, a solid saw. 👍
The Mafell isn't a great choice for use on a bench with a guide system. I have the Bosch and the saw overhang on the non cutting side and flexible tracks mean you need to switch to a Festool/Makita rail for bench work (this would I believe be the same with the Mafell) Now I am looking at getting another saw for the workbench so I can leave the Bosch set up for Bosch/Mafell tracks which is frankly kind of silly.
Thanks! I’ve only played with the 36v haven’t really used one in anger for any length of time, it agree, I was amazed by how good the dust collection was. 👍👍
I have the poor man Mafell, the Bosch. One advantage of the Festool system is there are more 3rd party accessories for Festool linked to the MFT. The guide system for Bosch is the FSN OFA. This would fit the Mafell rail and I use my DeWalt router on it. You can also get a ‘holy rail’ at 32mm centres. The hole locator system does not work as cleanly as the Festool. If you are a Festool bloke the box with Bosch or Mafell won’t work Festool when carrying all your kit on to site Swings and roundabouts to all tools, unless you like them matching colours.... Great review
I tested the Mafell a few weeks .. and still bought again Festool ( my second one ) the Mafell has some advantages ..but also some disadvantages compared to the Festool ... and the Mafell was a bit more expensive ..
My earlier comment disappeared, odd. Returned two Makitas for under-cutting the edge-guide when bevelled (manufacturing error that cant be adjusted out) and was tempted by the Mafell but went with Festool as needed it to work with cutting jigs, bench dogs and UJK Parf gear etc. Mafell motor-housing fouls taller dogs and rails dont work with dog-clips etc. Still think the Mafell is the superior tool in every other regard though, design and quality included. If I was on site regularly I’d choose the Mafell without hesitation.
That’s idd re the previous comment - wasn’t me, I promise! 😂 Yes, I like the Mafell rail design, but find it I’d that the baseplate overhangs the rail - it rules out so many things. 🤷♂️ Good to have the choice though! 👍👍
Great video, thank you for that. I recently bought a Festool TS55 REBQ Plus, over the competitors. I'm just a guy who occasionally saws stuff around the house, so any track saw is basically a luxury. Reasons why I chose the Festool over the Mafell were; Mafell is substantially more expensive, and second the Festool can saw closer to walls or other objects because of where the dust collector is placed. Another reason is basically the same as yours; I could buy one. Just one slight difference; I bought it from a shop that was discontinuing their Festool lineup, so I got it at a super price. If it were any different, I might have gone with the DeWalt tracksaw, but their track system isn't that good. It is usable with Festool tracks, but then there is too much play I read somewhere.
Interesting idea. Shouldn’t make a difference - I know the Mafell cut line is different, so you’d need to recut the splinterguard - but might be worth a play while I still have the saw. 🤔👍
I had chance to get the mafell borrowed to me and the scoring cut is as well a concern to me which you could address by the same trick you used on the festool (holding from full depth). Of course then you lose the interest of the switch.
I agree with Kevin ref the lack of power from the festool, also I bought my saw with a hoover and didn't use it for a long time only to find it isn't cutting at 90 when I started using it.
Good review. I do a back cut set at a couple of mm into the MFC with the Festool or set 2 mm into the material like your impromptu scribe cut. Festool is currently cheaper, another consideration.
Another advantage of a riving knife, completely independent of kickback, is in cutting thin strips of 1/4" (12 mm) or less. Without the knife, these can wobble into the back of the blade, leaving a worse surface.
HI Peter what double sided tape to you use as a hold fast when using a router. I have bought the 3M 9088 tape you recommended for use when replacing a splinter guard but is there a cheaper for use when one don't need a high quality tape for more less demanding applications .BTW. I bought the Triton plunge saw ( because I could not get the Titan and disable ant kick back lock as it made it very difficult to use. For most of us the Mafel and Festool are to expensive for the amount of work we do but still interesting to see how they perform . Also I note Triton and Titan and a lot of other saws are of the same design . thanks in advance stay safe .
Thanks Michael! I generally use whatever tape my decorators merchant has. For double-sided, sometimes that’s Tesa tape, sometimes Mammoth. They’re both good quality tapes for general purpose use, when you don’t need the 3M gear. 👍👍
How about if you Ignore the built in scribe cut option on the mafell and do as you did with the Festool.? After many months of pondering I chose the Mafell, Im not disappointed with my choice.
Yes, both great saws, and yes, you could absolutely do an ‘impromptu’ scoring cut - but the scoring cut should do the job, don’t you think? Out of interest does the scoring function on your Mafell leave the same kind of gap? I’m getting two kinds of responses, some folks saying their is the same as mine & unusable, some saying it works perfectly. 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Sorry for the late reply.. You could argue that the scoring cut does its job. I suppose it all depends how you choose to use that scribe cut. Its so quick to just adjust the depth and do a quick pass scribe then adjust to partial or full depth cut. I thought long and hard before I finally decided on the Mafell. the stronger motor. dust extraction and rail set up was far better with Mafell. I find the grip with Mafell rails is excellent, alignment is always spot on. The Rails are so beautifully engineered, nice clamps and the anti chip strip doesn't peel. I also cut quite a bit of calcium silicate boards with the Mafell its never kicked back on me, rails have never slipped and its never failed to impress me.
![Which Rails Work? A Guide to Guiderails [video #403]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_HtpT_bK7zw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Which Rails Work? A Guide to Guiderails [video #403]](/img/tr.png)
![Four Festool Game-changers [Video 433]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/R9a1qzLsjFA/mqdefault.jpg)
The TS55 was my gateway drug. Unfortunately, when it was 6 months out of warranty the motor started smoking while I was cutting some 3/4" oak plywood. I sent it in expecting to pay for the repair, but Festool fixed and returned it for free. Unfortunately again, UPS dropped it and broke the base. I sent it back and rather than fix it Festool sent me a brand new saw as a replacement. Thank you, Festool. I love your videos. Thanks, Peter.
Thanks Ross! Good to hear you’ve had good service from them! 👍👍
I mad the switch in 2013.. I know, I checked the receipt the other day. 7 years with absolutely no issues. I switched when I had TTS out because it kept thermaling out.Their rep told me is wasn't really designed for cutting oak worktops.. take from that what you will.
Just before lock down my Mafell started playing up/ cutting out. I opened it up to check the connections inside and they were fine, so I sent it off to get mended. Turned out it was the plug.. pah.. no idea why i didn't check, but the great guys at Elliots lent me Festool to keep me going. I was panelling a room with Medite MR.. Holy shit the extraction on that thing was, quite frankly, rubbish. The amount of dust (using the new CTL Midi for both) against the Mafell is frightening, and cost me a lot of time in clean up and face masks... which you could buy then ;)
I prefer the Festool tracks, of which I have all up to 5 meters, as you an plunge to full depth and use your left hand to hold in place - I rarely use the clamps. If I had to join them the mafell / bosch are a huge improvement, and whilst the chip strip is also better on the Mafell / Bosch, i change them regularly, so it's not a concern. I also use the rails with the festool routers, and being able to use both, is another win for the festool. Mafell also do a flexi rail that comes with the KSS300, which coils into systainer, which is opens up a load more possibilities as well as one less thing to carry.
I also prefer the handle location of the Mafell, it's behind rather than above - think a D handle jigsaw against a barrel.
The power from the Mafell is another league.. it's never wet me down, rip's in wet tanalised, it'll take it ll on, and with the blade change so easy, I switch between blades probably 4-5 times a day, from rough cuts to fine, ripping to cross cuts. you just don't thing about it.
The Festool is a fine saw, but IMO since the Festo days the marketing department has had too much input, Mafell, on the other hand, are family owned and built for tradesman. no fluff, just rock solid and IMO the best money can buy.
Great post Matt, thanks for taking the time. Yes, I had the KSS300 with the flexi rail as well - great little saw! And agree about the rails for general use too - I also prefer the Festool rail for exactly your reasoning, and while I do like the Mafell joining system, it’s not somethignI do much these days as I also have longer rails. 👍👍
Hahaha "not designed for cutting oak worktops" .... so was it designed for mass foamboard rips? I have completely given up on tech support. The other day I emailed Bosch a question about how to determine if a certain model laser level will be compatible with a certain model laser receiver and listed certain specs listed in the manuals about laser wavelengths, laser class type, etc and she answers me by reiterating everything I said in my email and completely did not answer my question at all. These techs clearly have no experience with the tools that they are answering questions for. If it's not something that can be found on the website about the product, they just talk jibberish to try to sound like they're answering your question.
Hi Peter, I see this video was almost 2 years ago now but I thought of a couple of things people may find useful. First I recently saw that the latest Festool track saw replacement for the TS55 is using a thinner 1.8mm kerf (like the Mafell) instead of 2.2mm, but they never bothered to upgrade the motor to match. This thinner kerf obviously puts less strain on the motor, which is Festool’s attempt to appease those who feel it lacks power but without also matching the Mafell’s motor output. I bought the Mafell a while before you made this video and agonised over the differences for quite some time. To my surprise when the Mafell arrived it wasn’t 100% correctly aligned, meaning the cut line shifted over when cutting at an angle - Fair play to them, Mafell shorted it out immediately and even supplied me with new strips for all my rails so they could be cut to match the new blade alignment perfectly! Never had the issue you saw with scribing, so either the unit lent to you needs alignment, or something else moved. Interesting to watch this 2 years on all the same - Good stuff as usual 👍 Oh, one last idea - Avoid risking your warranty and instead use the Neutrik powercon True 1 connectors like the clever chap suggested on Bisch Basch Bosch TH-cam channel - cracking idea, and you can even create your own Festool style dust extraction hose with power integrated 😉
Hi, I own the cordless mafell, I fit a lot of kitchens week in week out, I have to make up corner posts out of melamine board which have to be bang on, the scoring cut on the mafell is a god send! White is the hardest colour to join but the gap is nothing like that one especially once fixed together, it really is hair line.
I never hold the rail free hand, I use the clamps every time and it never disappoints. A friend of mine who is a kitchen fitter uses the festool, he has no issues with it other than it majorly lacks power. Good honest review though, just go with your instincts and choose the one you like the feel of and will suit you best.
They're both top saws!
what do u recommend tho
@@iiiiiieye I've never actually used a festool saw but I've seen them used, they produce a nice finish, I wouldn't bother with the corded version, I'd buy the 36v festool if that was what I was after.
The mafell is only an 18v machine but still has plenty of power. The best thing to do is go have a look at them and see what you prefer the feel of.
Amazing video as always. I know this is 2 years later but I would add that I had had kickback once on the Mafell saw. I cut the damage off the rail and bought a full sized Bosch rail as it is half the price because it is blue rather than red.
I have used Festool tools for years when I used to work for companies and I always admired them.....until I used a Mafell. I have always put Festool in 3rd place behind Mafell and Hilti. I ended up buying the Mafell saw after watching this video and visiting the tool centre to view one. Upon picking up the Mafell saw, straight away I just admired the build quality. It is built like a tank!!
My other reason for buying the Mafell over the Festool was because of the tracks. Although the Festool was about £100 cheaper when I bought it, I would need to buy a longer track as they are just too fiddly to keep connecting, disconnecting and so on. To someone who doesn't use the saw that often, they would probably find that point laughable but to someone who uses it all day, the Mafell track was a huge game changer for me.
Not only would I have to add about £350 onto the price for an extra 2.7m/3m rail, I would not easily be able to fit it in the van. (yes you did read that right, £350 and the 5m rail including VAT is close to a whopping £500!)
This is not to say the Festool ts55 is not worth it by any means. Festool make seriously good tools and I do own a couple. This rail saw is the only Mafell tool that I currently own but I would consider more now.
The only negative that I have found with the Mafell saw is the floppy dust port, just like the Festool which you mentioned in another video.
It looked to me like the Festool held up very well. I'll be buying neither though, as I am very much at the Lidl end of the market...
I
Parkside for lifeeeee
@@leek805 I don't know about life, but I have bought and reviewed a whole range of Parkside tools and I find them great value for money.
Consider stretching to the Makita one. It is superb value for money AND LOCKS ONTO THE TRACKS WHICH NEITHER OF THESE TWO DO.
@@kevinchamberlain7928 It's all a question of money and how much you use that particular tool. If I was doing Peter's job, I'd probably have an up market one but I only use them occasionally.
Just to add a note for anyone thinking of buying a cordless version. The Mafell uses the same 18v batteries as Metabo
Good to know, thanks! 👍👍
Peter Millard Not only Mafell uses Metabo batteries. In you google CAS ( = Cordless Alliance System) there a quite a lot of companies who use them.
I have the 18v version, it's as powerful as a 36v makita !
Also, I'm pretty sure the cordless Mafell has a different motor than the corded with a Cuprex motor.
Harvey Smith yes, multi platform batteries. I imagine also the Bosch batteries as mafell and Bosch are integrated.
The Bosch have 12 amp hour battery. Correct me if I'm wrong on the Bosch battery. As Bosch have a same track fence system to maffel.
I have the metabo batteries.
I agree with you, that it would be great to switch off that blade shift function, but on the other hand many people prefer a constant width hair line over chipout. Also it would most likely disappear in glued assemblies. At the end of the day you can still apply the same technique as with the Festool saw.
A very interesting comparison. I think both saws are brilliant but I bought my TS55EBQ before the Mafell was a twinkle in an engineer's eye. I have never had any problems with chipping on either side of the cut (even when I forget to drop the splinter guard!) and I simply cannot fault the saw in any way. As I sometimes need to cut thick sections of old reclaimed oak I also bought a larger saw, and the only real choice then was the Mafell KSP85. It is very powerful, cuts like the proverbial hot knife, runs on rails, plunges with a parallel lever operated mechanism and has a retractable riving knife( I'm old fashioned and I will not buy or use a circular saw that doesn't have one). Both saws are excellent for their intended use and I wouldn't swap either one for anything other than a direct replacement. The one area that I think festool does better than any other manufacturer is the systematized approach: once you've got the saw and rail, you have to get the extractor. And then the router with its rail attachment and before you know it you have a wall full of systainers and an empty bank account!
Really grateful for you taking the time to make such detailed videos.
As a self employed carpenter/ joiner myself I know how demanding the job is, and to add video creation on top of that is really generous.
Thanks, appreciate you taking the time to comment! 👍
This video helped me decide to go for the Festool and I couldn’t be happier. The other reason for the festool is that did a project where I needed two different bevel cuts (half and half) along the same edge of the board. The accuracy was amazing due to the same pivot point when adjusting the angle of the cut. This is not the case with the Mafell so it was rather surprising that they haven’t figured this out. I even emailed Mafell asking this and then never responded. And finally, if anyone considers a perfect scoring cut with the festool, I set the depth to a couple of mm and run the saw backwards - always a perfect finish.
Proper scoring should always be a backwards cut so that theeth is biting the surface of the sheet into the material direction. The same way as scoring blade in profesional table saws is working.
I do the same. Makes the Conti board behave.
Hi Peter, hope you’re well in these weird times. I replaced my TS55 with the MT55 around six months ago. I just got fed up with the gutless motor on the TS dropping into limp mode every time I cut a kitchen worktop or ripped the long edge of a 44mm door - which I do. An awful lot. And as for ripping hardwood any thicker than 40mm (even using the 12T Panther blade) - forget it - multiple shallow passes needed every time. I therefore respectfully disagree with what you say in this regard - and for me, the performance of a saw on full-depth rip cuts is totally critical. The MT does it all with ease. Horses for courses - but I’m delighted with mine. And tip of the day? For perfect splinter-free cuts either side of the line, make your initial scoring cut whilst running the saw backwards down the rail.That way, the teeth are cutting into the face of the laminate rather than bursting up through it. Have a nice day.
Hey Kevin. Yes, we’ll thanks - hope you are too. Sounds like the Mafell’s the saw for you, though as I say in the vid I haven’t had those issues. Out of interest, was yours 110 or 240v? 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop It was the 240 - most of my work is domestic. But I know a lot of site joiners who use 110, and as you say, the power problem seems to be even more pronounced on that version. For my purposes, the TS55 was always near-perfection for 18mm MDF and similar, but I guess it all just proves what a broad church woodworking is, and that one size is never going to fit all. All the best.
Great tip running the saw backwards, thank you lol raging at myself I have never thought of this.
Going to make the swap over to mafell next week
@@KevinBower-gy5be Quick question mate I do a lot of kitchens, do you find the mafell score cut 10th of a mm back to be an issue ?
I can imagine I will just do a 1-2mm cut to start if it is, and can't imagine a 10th of a mm will be an issue lol but it will annoy me if I can see the line on MFC or MDF
Morning Joe. That tenth of a mil is only going to be an issue if the work’s being butted up to another piece - in which case it will be visible. I haven’t ever used the scoring function on the MT55 - I just use the 1-2mm backwards scoring method as described above. All the best.
The mafell seems much higher in cost than the festool as of today. This is in US dollars and considering a comparable set of working accessories. It is clearly a better performer , but the cost is stifling, even to a Festool user. You do make a very important point, how do these tools perform over time. I would like to see a 5 year old Mafell performance against a 5 year old Festool. Out of the box performance is all very good, but how am I going to feel about this investment 5 years from now. What parts break, how hard are they to get? These are the things that help us determine whether or not this was a good investment. It is the MTBUMA (mean time between unscheduled maintenance action) and MTTR (mean time to repair) that can make a difference.
I had a kick back on my Mafell MT55, it happened while plunging a bit too fast into 4 cm red oak. Luckily no harm to me or work piece but unfortunately it jumped out of track and mess up the track a bit and my underwear had to be changed afterwords. Also my particular MT55 was out of square on 0 degrees out of factory, there are 2 screws that you can fix this by yourself but on first few cats you need to check this. Scoring cut on laminates is a bit too much IMO and also mess up the rubber on track so if you use this do so on entire length of track otherwise you will end up with splinter guard that is not same on entire length and make hard to line up according to lines.
I've changed my underwear may time because of saws in general ;-)
If you slide down the clear plastic rectangle in front of the blade, the dust collection is improved a lot on the TS55.
d Lightman That‘s also true for the Mafell
I bought the Mafell about 10 or so years ago. I went for it because for the most part the overall system seemed a bit better than the festool and the saw itself feels more industrial and less plasticky. Al these years on, it hasn’t changed my mind.
The blade cover gives better dust control, esp if you flip down the plastic slide.
The rails are a much better system. Rock solid and accurate joined to make a long length, better joining bar.
My 3 metre festool rail drives me mad having to stick the edge strip back on constantly.
Other things are marginally better too.
On the score front, I thought it was designed more for bar fitting type work with ‘Formica’ type finishes joining at angles like 45° to give a perfect joint, rather than butt joints and Mafell recommended reverse scoring 2 or 3 mm as per standard with all other saws for butts etc? I would have a word with the importers about it to check.
Kickback - yes, the Mafell can kick back. There’s many an owner with gouges in the tracks from it happening. Nearly always from starting on a plunge rather than running in and not having the blade quite up to full speed when cutting in.
After all this time would I re buy the Mafell over the Festool?
Yes. But you’d be happy with either.
Good info, thanks!
Can you fit the Festool hoover to the Mafell plunge saw? or do you recommend a cheaper hoover that would fit the Mafell, the only reason I'm thinking of getting it is because on screwfix they offer 2 guides with the plunge saw 599£ price.
Hello Peter, Thanks for the comparison. I'v used a Festool TS55 for over 20 years now and I find the little Green block you slid in front of the blade to be extremely useful. First it reduces the chip out on the side of the cut, away from the rubber rail edge. Secondly, it also reduces the amount of dust being shot out the front of the saw. I think they come in packs of 5. When I have an expensive Vaneer to cut I install a brand new chip stopper because it is cut away by the blade and if you are only cutting 20 mm depth then that is the zero clearance you get, a couple of 55mm cuts and it doesn't have a zero clearance at the lower depths any more. That would be an interesting comparison to the Mafell scoring cut.
I have a mafell and use the minor gap for caulk or silicon joint
Makita have a simple lever that locks onto the track to prevent “tipping”when cutting bevels.It also helps hold the saw when using the track to trim the bottom of doors without removing the door from frame.Saves carrying saw horses around.
Tony McGirr it helps but there’s still some movement there that can ruin a bevel cut if you don’t keep the saw pressed to the track, shame as the cordless makita has a good amount of power for a battery saw
Thanks for taking the time to comment; I agree with no skills above; the Makita anti-tipping lip is to stop the saw tipping over *at the end of a cut* not for when you’re cutting the bevel - there’s too much play in it for that. 👍
Being immersed in work whereby all the chippies have either Festool of Mafell, I have used both. They both work fine but most chippies I have met all agree Mafell is of a higher build quality and a more robust tool. My Mafell reminds me of early Japanese Makita tools - extremely robust and bomb proof. I have seen issues arise with Festools - especially that riving knife. Nevertheless, don't let this put you off.
Hi Peter,
your videos are always of interest, really great (also for a German ;-)). I have the Maffel my brother the Festool. I tested both and stayed with the Maffel. The saw does not wail when cutting, but pulls through and is more stable in construction. The scoring function cuts in the same line as the cut, only at a depth of 3 mm. The saw was well received by me, but is also easy to adjust myself. Most users, regardless of which manufacturer, do not clean their saws and are then surprised at a crooked cut. Care maintains value and precision. Mine is one of the first machines and runs and runs.
Hi Ringo and thanks! I think anybody would be really pleased to be given either of these saws. And if we buy them, then we have preferences, of course. I own the Festool, the Mafell is on loan to me. I can only test the saws I have, and I’m glad to hear your scoring cut works flawlessly; mine doesn’t, and I hope to find out why, soon. Best wishes from London! 👍👋
@@10MinuteWorkshop Hi Peter,
I have learned electrical engineering and know how these machines look from the inside, how they are adjusted. Both machines Festool or Maffel are high end products, everyone who buys something gets quality. But the dealers are mostly sellers with an office background. You have no idea about the product, you now know the marketing blah and can break something quickly.
Maffel has been around for a long time as a Festool, but the Maffel or Festool, which was considered normal, stood out in terms of technology and tolerance, thanks to Marketing Lümmel. Neither machine can get straight cuts with dirt in the right place. I'm assuming that the Maffel you got so everyone is allowed to screw and no matter part.
Ergo, cleaning, aligning and adjusting -> and being happy!
This applies to every machine whether Maffel, Festool, Bosch, Makita, Dewald or others. If you mistreat such high-quality products, you won't get a good result.
Please continue to make such informative videos and greetings from Germany
@@10MinuteWorkshop sorry Peter if this seems a bit too easy as a solution. But to avoid the shifting of 0,1 mm can you just use the depth stop of the cut at 3mm let’s say instead of using the scoring function ?
Owned mafell for 3 plus years. The 240v version and it is superb. The only thing I would change is the ability to turn off the 10th of a mill cut thing, if you want to but joint worktops... Enough said, you can see it although never had a customer notice. Sometimes I just use the router. I have experienced kick back, it came up on to the rail, munched the chip strip and grazed the rail. I was cutting thinner board with a thinner support board underneath on saw horses. I'd say it was user error. Support this saw well.. But, keep your fingers away as if it they were closer to the saw, I'd probably be picking my nose with a few less fingers.
Festool makes nice tools. However, there's always some shortcoming that you have to buy an accessory or build a jig to overcome. Ripping narrow strips is an example. Not catching the hose on the rail during cuts is another. Unglued splinter guards is another. Fiddly rail connectors that don't self-align is another. The need to carry long rails for a straight cut is another. Dust collection using the dust bag on the Mafell is as good as the Festool with a vacuum. That being said, there are all sorts of clever contraptions people build or sell to integrate pieces of other Festool products for various situations. That's an advantage there, if you're into all that.
I find the scoring cut on the Mafell is fine when edge banding MFC. If I'm joining 2 edges or want perfect edges for MFC door fronts then I run a router with bearing guided flush trim to get rid of the offset. A little more processing but I find this much quicker than my old method of cutting with a tracksaw followed by using a router on the rail to take off a mm or so to get rid of any chips.
Kitchen fitter for many years and used lots of Plunge saws - the Festool doesn't have the power of some other saws and the rail system takes too long to connect for 3m+ runs, the bosch is excellent for the price as its a cheap mafell but the mafell is the best plunge saw ever made, best dust extraction, blade change and guide rail system. Its not much more than the festool but its noticeably better to use
I use a DeWalt tracksaw, and for cutting cheap mfc without any chip out, i make a scoring cut with the plunge depth set to 2mm and run the saw backwards starting at the end of the cut and pulling it towards me. I then flip the workpiece over and do the same thing in the waste side (if the waste side needs to be perfectly chip free). This gives 100% chip free cuts. A bit of a faff, but where something needs to be perfect, this method will do it.
What a I learned with my Festool for scoring: do the scoring cut with moving saw in opposite direction on the rail (only do this when cutting just several millimeters for scoring, never for deep cuts, dangerous). Then do the deep cut after in normal direction. With this scoring technic you get cleaner results, because with reverse pulling direction for scoring your saw teeth press the top layer into the wood while cutting, and do not try to peel it of like at the normal cut direction. (For the bottom side of the wood relation is reverse, so normal direction gets clean results because saw blade rotation direction)
Excellent review, thanks Peter. I own the corded version of the Mafell MT55 and it's "The dogs danglees" I am however a total Amateur .What I can tell you however is that if you intend to use the Mafell , as I had intended , with the Track Rail ,non cutting side, butted up against 2 Benchdogs in your MTF Bench Top, as Illustrated on various TH-cam Videos , you cannot do this as the edge of the Mafell Saw overhangs the rail Guide on the Non Cutting side! This means the saw Body hits against the bench stops.I hope I have explained this clearly !? The Festool Rail Guide is much wider and the TS55 saw Body is set back from from the edge of the rail allowing the saw to pass any Benchdog which the rail is butted up against!
It's my only disappointment with the tool and it may not be an issue for most users.I just thought some people may be interested in this property of the Mafell Track system. Yes you can use the Mafell in a Festool track but you need to unscrew 4 small Torx screws every time to remove a piece of plastic from the underside of the Mafell body. It fits the festool Track very well no issues there but its annoying. Also it may be of interest that the Bosch GKT 55 GCE 160mm Plunge Saw appears to be the exact same saw apart from not having the hinged door for blade changing (its an Older? model which you still find on for sale on that big auction site!) Its half the price of the Mafell.The Bosch Track is exactly the same the Mafell is just a rebranded version.The new Bosch Track clamps are the same but priced lower than the Mafell equivalent. The Bosch GKT 55 GCE 160mm Plunge Saw may not have the scoring feature? or the hinged door but they look identical otherwise. Again I have no use for the Scoring feature so cannot comment.I have mainly been cutting sheet MDF and Plywood building Guitar Amplifier Cabinets.I'm also not in the UK so my price experience may be different than yours. Again I must emphasis I am not a professional woodworker but the Mafell is a joy to use.I also own a Mafell DDF40 Duo Doweller which is precision in the extreme.
Thanks! I do cover a few of these things in the ‘further thoughts’ video on my patreon; you can also use the low-profile dogs (benchtop protectors) for the Mafell or Bosch rails, btw. And yes, Mafell make the rails and some of the parts for the Bosch saw, but it is assembled by Bosch in a separate factory, I believe. 👍👍
Worked for years with Festool and now I own a Makita and it does exactly the same thing for almost half the price with more power.
Have owned and used Makita for 5 years and would recommend to anyone. Makita motors are undeniably stronger and more powerful. I do like the twist plug of the Festool but since I purchased the new battery powered Makita the corded version is my back up.
Makita is great. It just does the job for a reasonable price.
I don't see the need in overpaying for over engineered crap like proprietary power plugs, dedicated batteries for each tool etc.
And I'm making a living by using my tools.
Now I'm in the market for a fixed base 1/2 inch router, but unfortunately Makita doesn't sell one in EU, so I have to look elsewhere - and the only one in EU is Bosch Blue :(
I have had the Mafell for two years and love it it took me months to decide mafell or festool and it was the rails which sold it to me. I fit high end kitchens ie siematic and cutting fillers etc no problem at all with out scoring.
Good to know, thanks Mark - and I’m not surprised the decision took a while, it’s a very personal thing, and very fine margins between the two systems. 👍👍
When I do a scoring cut I was always shown to run the saw backwards down the rail first, then the blade runs the opposite way with the teeth going down into the face by a couple of mm rather than out of it (like the rotation of a scoring blade on a full size table saw) then finish with a full depth cut as normal pushing forwards.
I’ve tried it both ways, didn’t make a scrap of difference as far as I could see. 🤷♂️
My first cut using a new Mafell saw and rail kicked back. The waste edge was overhanging the edge of the workbench, and as I neared the end of the cut the waste edge twisted the kerf closed and the saw jumped, cutting the brand new rail. The waste piece/kerf jump thing has happened a few times as I often let the waste edge fall free to the floor. Due to this, I keep a shim to wedge overhanging waste edges while I cut. Score 1 for the Festool riving knife. Otherwise, after getting the Mafell saw I have no desire to use my Festool saws again.
Had to make the same decision some years ago (hobby use only). You can‘t go wrong with either - both of them have their pros and cons. At that time I haven‘t had the chance to do testcuts etc. - I could only hold and inspect them for some minutes. I've choosen the mafell. For some reason the festool felt like a toy compared to the mafell. The tilt mechanism is absolutely great, blade change too. However, there some things I don‘t like about it. If you do bevel cuts, it doesn‘t cut exactly on the edge of the splinter guard. It cuts slightly offset by 1-2mm - perhaps you can check that with your saw. The track doesn‘t cover the width of the base plate on the left side - means you can‘t use the track‘s edge as a fence or stop (don‘t know the correct wording). I also miss the possibility to add tools to the track. On the other hand you can use the festool tracks to remedy those two problems (well, with all the drawbacks the festool ones have 😄). The festool offers more freedom in blade selection, but I had no problems with the mafell ones. I use the 32 toothed one for every day use. Other than that, I love the mafell and it‘s always a pleasure to work with it.
Yes, there’s a ‘further thoughts’ video out for my Patreon on Sunday where I get into a few other niggles. Both great saws, pros and cons to each, and very subjective depending on your useage. 👍👍
If you have many tools that require dust collection (saw, sander, router,...) the plug it system is gold. I own a Festool sander and retrofitted my other tools to the system, because it is just so convenient. When you are on a tight budget, you might want to take the costs of retrofitting this system into account. (I found no warranty void stickers or anything like that on my Mafell saw, so as long as you keep the original power cord and fit it back on before you send the saw in for warranty, I think you're good)
I have never checked out the Mafell, but when I compared the Makita to the Fesstool, the Makita was smaller, more powerful, cut just as well and half the price. For the same price as a single Fesstool I have a complete Makita of set 2 rail lengths and a saw in my shop and another complete set for my truck. They get allot of abuse and they have always worked flawlessly. I think I might get another set for my service mini van.
I mean there is an argument to be had for the festool accessories (CMS, PlugIt, etc.), but you're essentially right even then.
I'm in the same boat. I run the 36 volt Makita which is pretty decent and with its own scribe mechanism. the only thing I miss from the festool is its depth stop arrangement. I've used all the major manufacturers saws and in my view there's really not much difference in any of them..(the DeWalt takes more getting use to because of the way it plunges.
Makita is a great site saw.. 36v.
I pretty much think the same👍
I’ve run with festool for about 8 years. I have the routers, plainer, carvex jigsaw and kapex 120(recently stolen). So i love what festool do. I now run the mafell saw however. Mostly for the reasons you give. The rail is far better but mainly the power cut off when hot drives me mad. It’s mostly when doing rip cuts with the outstanding rip fence this would be a problem but it was the finish for me when using a friend Bosch saw which didn’t suffer the same. I went mafell over Bosch but the Bosch is a great saw to. The festool is still a good saw which is why I’ve kept it but mafell is my first choice.
Hi Peter
I find with the gap created by the scoring cut gets filled with glue or finish. hasn't been a problem for me. Plus your offset looked more than, .1of a millimetre. I do find with the Mafell that occasionally I get blade wobble with the thinner blades. I have several different blades to cut different materials, but I am getting blade wobble. to cure the problem of the scoring offset set the depth stop to 3mm. job done.
Hi Stephen. Yes - as I say, it’s more of an issue in MFC. And yes, the offset is more like 0.3mm - there’s a ‘more thoughts’ video on my patreon channel, btw. 👍👍
Would you not shift the 10th over first and then take a full plunge cut without the step over. Basically final cut is only a tenth? I have ts55 it’s nice but sometimes you got to use it freestyle and you cannot do that on these saws. Hilti is still good rival however parts are hard to get hold off
You can do off-rail cutting but it’s not great, as they’re not designed for that. 👍
Peter Millard. Thanks Peter. On site when I need to rip down sheet material for rough work I find the festool cumbersome. Not boasting myself but I can get considerably straight line without railguide on my hilti. This is because I can see the blade and find it’s lighter. Obviously I go to the festool on kitchen worktops etc. However before the festool I was using my hilti and it done just as good a job. With sharp blades off course. I just can’t justify the prices anymore. Ultimately a good jig will make a cheap circular saw just as good. Enjoying your videos Peter. Many thanks.
festool tsc 55 to scribe set depth stop to 3mm cut then re do at full depth no probs do this all the time on kitchen worktops
@ Lee Davies, I do this all the time, a couple of mm, 3 max as a scribe then full depth going steady and letting the saw do its job
Well after watching a previous video I went for the Titan but they didn't have any so I bought the Mac Alister which is infact the Titan . I'm not a carpenter I'm a retired bricky so woodworking is a hobby of mine one I'm fond of but buying a plunge saw is a bloody mine field . But I'm quite happy . thanks for your advice 👍
Uhhhh! Did I see the Festool saw kick back?
That happened to me once, where it scored right across the track. It also caused the alignment to be slightly skewed. This was caused by the way the hose from the vac hooked to the saw in a fixed position in the older models. The upgrade to the multi position is much better, and can be retro fitted.
My fault, I plunged before it was up to speed.👍👍
We have all done that before!
your'e correct about the festo guiderail , and I made a 4 meter ruler with some angleline to hold the outer edge of the festo-rail , budget ! only €24 and no more screws inside the rail that not only get ugly ,but also connect in such croocket way you can build ships without any drawings. second I also sanded off the ends of the festo rail smooth so no dusthose can get stuck nor the cable gets stuck in the connector grooves.... , and third... how can you compair saw quality when you use a dull blade .. and how can you compair without changing the speed festo has a very nice speedcontrol and especialy on chipboard it makes a big difference. nice review , no music !!
Had festool rail saw for ten years just upgraded to Mafell love it and still connect to the brilliant festool extraction
So you compared the scoring cut vs. just one pass full through, but you did not mention anything about the "reverse" scoring cut method where you move the saw backwards for the scoring cut. I would just really like to know if it makes any difference.
In my experience the ‘reverse scoring’ cut is a waste of time; I’ve tried it, and got a better cut just with a straight cut. Impromptu scoring cut in the festool was always better. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you! Personally, I have the Dewalt plunge saw and I have mostly only worked with full wood and for my own furniture or other projects, and been just really happy with it, so I have never really even used a scoring cut :) and never bothered to test it really because the normal cut has been perfect for me, but good to know.
I have the Festool. If you want to do a scoring cut with it, then what i do is set it to 3mm or so and then do a reverse cut, ie start at the end and pull the saw backwards. Then i set it to the depth of whatever i am cutting and cut forwards as normal. I have done that for years now and have never used the 48 tooth blade, the only ones i use are the 12 and 28 tooth blades. Using the 28 tooth blade as described i have cut many £500 laminated doors without a hint of chipping. :) I noticed you were using the clear blade guard cover, using the green version increases the dust collection, i use it on mine along with the 36mm hose and the dust collection is on par with the mafell.
All of these saws kick back because they share a fundamental design mistake. They plunge/hinge from the rear rather than the front, like my old Elu MH25 did. This means that when you plunge it into the timber, it tries to cut down with the back of the blade, where the teeth are going down rather that up, so the movement works against you. Think about how we would 'plunge' a normal skillsaw into timber. We would rest it at the front and pivot it down, not at the back.
That's a really great point! 👍
Love this video I have owned festool dewalt and Bosch track saws. Being a kitchen cabinet installer I prefer the Bosch / Mafel tracks I found the Bosch saw works very well the waste side cut is worse as noted on the mafel/ Bosch than the festool The connector for the mafel / Bosch is so much better. I like that the Bosch scoring cut doesn’t do the blade shift the mafel does.
One downside of the Mafel/Bosch rail is the base of the saw overhangs the non-blade side of the rail,so the saw will clash with bench dogs if using these to position the rail. A spacer strip overcomes this but it is a tedious annoyance!
Yes, this was mentioned in the patreon-only 'further thoughts' video; you can use the low-profile bench dogs (' bench top protectors' here - bit.ly/bench-dogs) they work well; use the offer code "10minuteworkshop" at checkout for 5% discount. 👍
The mafell is faultless.Run new blades through a off cut of worktop a couple of times first you will then get a perfect cut. My scribe offset doesn’t seem so big as yours but if it’s a problem turn the material over
Quick question for you, please. I am almost convinced that I am going down the Mafell path, but the question I have is, rather than use the scoring clip, which produces a 10th of a millimetre gap, can you not do what you did with the Festool and just do a 3mm precut?
Yes, absolutely; it's just that Mafell make such a song and dance about their 1/10mm scoring cut that I thought it was worth testing. 👍
I made the same decisions years ago. You pointed out the same things I noticed back in the days...
Finally I went to the Festool System. Overall it is more worth the money. But the Maffel is really great, no doubt. But d finnaly this is a system decision. You get the best benefit if most of the parts are from the same system.
Exactly! 👍
I've never used the scoring feature on the Mafell, mostly because I don't want to cut back my splinter guard (even by a 10th of a mm)... because that's what I use to line up all cuts. And because I agree with you that there's really no need for it.
Surprised you didn’t tape the Festool “blade window” and redo the dust collection test to see if that simple fix brought the Festool in line with the Magellan dust collection
Didn’t know magellan had a dust collector on his boat 😂
I sold my festool ts55 and bought a mafell. Love it! The downside is that mafell are abit more hands off when it comes to setting up the tool, and there's generally less info around. I have had some difficulty getting it to cut perfectly at 90 degrees when set to 0 on the gauge (very slight bevel). Apart from that it's been great.
Interesting. Had a pal switch from Festool to Mafell and his MT55 wouldn’t cut a 45 bevel - he had trouble getting it changed ‘cos it’s not the kind of thing you’d check for straight away. 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop there's been a few cases of "unusual" angle problems. I fixed mine with a doubled-up layer of gaffer tape. A particularly lofi method, but I haven't been able to face taking out all the piddly screws and trying to create a washer thin enough.
Thanks Peter for yet another practical, professional, and plain powerful and soooo helpful presentation.
As I've said before, I just don't know where you find the time to do so much to contribute to the woodworking community with your knowledge, expertise and downright bloody personable presentations. Unlike most of this community, having spent 30 years recording and editing audio and a good few years producing videos, I know just how much time it takes. No doubt the vast majority of your viewers think that, "well it's a 10 minute video, can't take more than 15 minutes to create.........WRONG ! ! ! I know you'll agree that it will take a minimum of a couple of hours to set up all the different shots, get the camera angles right, the lighting, the sound etc etc etc. Then, editing will add at the very least another 30 minutes to as much as 3 hours or more, depending upon the complexity.
So, a HUGE thank you for all your stellar efforts ! No telling how many people are extremely grateful to be shown examples of how to do/make stuff and what tools to use to attain the professional quality you give to everything you do.
Yer a Peter among Pete's 😀.
Oh, and by the way, just ordered my very first Festool product, the TS 55 FEBQ-PLUS and am relishing tomorrow or Sunday when I'll finally get my hot little hands on the green and black Rolls Royce. Have been using a Parkside for a while but...............just not good enough. That's all I'll say : )
Thanks Gordon, very kind of you to say and very much appreciated! I’m sure you’ll love the saw! 🙌👍👍
I own the ts55, have always liked the mafell as well. to get over the 1/10 of a mm you can just set the plunge depth to 5mm, just like you can on the ts55 to create a scoring cut. with the quick adjustment of the depth it isn't much of a pain to do. the guide rails for the mafell are much superior.
Of course - but, ‘buy a dog & bark yourself’ springs to mind! 😂 I think the Mafell rail jointing is better, not so sure about the rails themselves. 🤷♂️👍👍
Peter Millard true, very true 😂 you expect the feature to be better than it is
A very good comparison video thanks Peter. Especially good to see the gap created by the Mafell scoring feature. It presumably has a couple of other downsides: once activated, the rubber splinter guard has been cut slightly off the main cut line which may slightly compromise the quality of cut if you subsequently stick with the manual scoring cut (hand spacer method!) to avoid the offset. Also it makes sense that the waste side piece would have worse chipping after using the offset scoring cut, because the final waste side cut is a full depth cut pulling the teeth up through that face a fraction of a mm further into the face which is bound to cause more chip out. So in short this helps me to conclude that the extra Mafell scoring cut feature is a false benefit (which is the same as how I now view the angle top stop on the Makita!). I’d be interested to know how you rate the long term durability of the Mafell baseplate’s gripping mechanism onto its rail - tightness vs smoothness - as this was a noticeable downside I discovered in the makita vs the festool. For me, my confidence in the Festool machines has been renewed - good solid design - although I would like to have the improved dust collection offered by the Mafell. Thanks for your efforts. (I’ve just done my first tool review style video and it took me AGES to edit, I think I will plan and script it better next time!!! I could learn some lessons from your snappy feature summary at the start of this video, with relevant B roll dropped in 👍)
Thanks Alastair! Yes, I wanted to take a closer look at the scoring on the Mafell because I’d had a couple of people mention the ‘gappiness’ as being an issue for them. Obviously we can only test the saws we have - this Mafell’s a demo unit on loan, so I’d expect it to be fairly recent and in decent nick - hard to imagine a demo machine having a harder life than a saw in a busy workshop - but equally I’ve also had a couple of people say that they have no problem with the scoring cut on their saws… 🤷♂️I need to look at the Mafell rails again, but I’m pretty sure that they’re metal-on-metal, so I’d expect wear to be a factor longer-term, but that said it was a very snug and smooth fit on the skinny upright that the Mafell rails have to locate the saw. I do like the Mafell rail-joining method, but it’s not something I do much these days, and overall I prefer the Festool rails with the extra width; wouldn’t say no to a T-slot closer to the splinter guard though!
Dust collection on the Mafell is better, but as mentioned in the vid, putting a length of tape over the access hole on the Festool makes a big difference. And thanks, yes, I saw your vid - we should probably start a shared calendar, lol! - and enjoyed it; I do find that scripting it really helps get the points across though, and avoid the rambling. And yes, shooting cutaways / b roll is a great way to keep the pace up - though it is time-consuming to do. Cheers, Peter. 👍
Great comparison, but I wonder how the newest version of the Festool measures up. They got rid of the riving knife and have something similar to avoid kickback. I also believe there is something about scoring the cut in reverse on the Festool, but don't quote me on that.
good afternoon peter hope you are well..........i purchased a Makita track saw 10 years ago still going strong , the big problem with it, the blade changed it to a Freud blade what a game changer fantastic I then changed my Dewalt table saw to a Freud blade totally different it improved it so much and I watched Gosforth handy man do the same I'm sure he copied me . try fitting a Makita rubber edge never peeled . when I change mine its a struggle to get in off. would be nice to see a 10 minute workshop on saw blades
Thanks Anthomy. If you watch the Tracksaw Workshop series I recommend fitting the Makita splinter guards as well, and I cover quite a few alternative blades too - and use those same blades in my Festool in this video - More about blades, th-cam.com/video/jR25DirM34E/w-d-xo.html 👍
It didn't come up in your video as you use an MFT but my understanding is that the bosch and mafell don't work well with bench dogs as the motor fouls on the dogs on their own rails.
Yes, the Bosch/Mafell rails are narrower, causes a few issues. 👍
I have a 1993 mafell mks105 and don't use the riving knife. But have the riving knife fitted with the mks160!
The first track saw I bought was the Festool some 15 years ago. I sold the TS55 and bought the Mafell just after it came out but after a few years of use I ended up going back to the Festool. The main reason was Festool's superior service and back-up. It took an age to get replacement parts or service for the Mafell. When deciding what machine is the best that's a huge consideration.
Yes, indeed - very important to consider all aspects of the purchase and likely use. 👍👍
Never had a problem with Mafell.
"The old trick of peeling the splinter guard off and edging it over". Crikey, thats so obvious why on earth have I never thought to do it. Nice one Peter.
Haha! Thanks! 👍
yes brilliant and so simple don't know how I missed that trick!
my experience is once you try to move it over, it never sticks the same again. I hate the way the strip peels off at the end. The mafell/bosch is much more superior in that regard. One thing that wasn't discussed was the Mafell rail is quite a bit narrower, to the point where if you use the Axminster super dogs as a fence system, the motor housing on the Mafell hits the dogs. Not a problem with the Festool The short answer is to cut along the length of the mft with a longer rail than needed so the cut is finished before you run out of real estate. A bit of pain and it's going to necessitate me getting a second rail with the connector for longer cuts but having extra rails is always a good idea.
As a diy woodworker none of these high end saws perform significantly well enough over cheaper variants to justify the prices that they charge, I use a makita track with a triton plunge saw, polar opposite to these two, but once yo know your tool, with care and correct blade choice you can achieve good results, the high end saws may be more robust electrically and or mechanically but so far I’m 5 years in with no problems, but then I don’t abuse my tools . Also festoon/ makita really should address the rail joining issue , reminds me off a particularly bad piece of scalextric track !!!
I’m a huge fan of tracksaws, at every level and price point - but especially the entry level saws that we have access to in abundance here in the UK / EU. But if you are looking for a higher-end saw - and if you ever needed to use one for any length of time then you’d appreciate the difference - then this video makes that comparison. Lots of other comparisons on the channel, and all my tracksaw videos are in a playlist here - bit.ly/TracksawWorkshop 👍👍
Thank you, watched this several times before making my purchase decision, Went Mafell as guides were more useful, one shorter one longer than festool which gave me versitilty. Very pleased with performance of it.
Thanks, glad it was helpful! Mafell make a fine saw, no question. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Your review was superb, Mr. Millard There are a lot of favorable reviews here in the States preferring the cordless Makita over the cordless Festool. Not my line of work, but it's interesting to watch and learn.
I settled on the Bosch, having tried the Titan/Erbauer and returned it as it was just not good enough, and as I couldn't justify the cost of Festool for my needs. I'm realy pleased with it and it has made my table saw more or less redundant ( which is a blessing as its a cheap Clarke antique ). I have put the aftermarket plugs on all my powertools per Bisch Basch Bosch, and I understand that it does not affect warranty ( although if I had to send it back I'd probably have to send a lead too )
Dust collection could be better, and if I used it daily, would become an issue, but thats all. Love the tracks, and also have Bosch Routers with track adaptors
Nice! Yeah, Stu at Bisch Bosch Basch is your man for all things Bisch! 👍👍
Richard Keith I wanted to do the replacement plugs but they were quite expensive
Being that the Bosch and Mafell are very similar. Does the Bosch have the same 10th mm offset on the scribe cut?
Which ever saw you have, please do put notice to good cutting blade. It's very important and you can get better results
Its Bosch for me I'm afraid. Its has pretty much everything a Mafell has including the excellent track connection system.
However you don't pay the extra 200 quid.
I know Festool are excellent bits of kit and I would love a domino cutter... but other than that I just don't like them... the look of them to me isn't great.
I guess we all have our likes and its hard to get over those.
I do hope you went Mafell... will find out at the end ...
tormenting360 I also went for the Bosch. Very happy with it.
tormenting360 I started with the Bosch and it is still my site saw however the mafell that is my workshop saw has way more grunt and I find it a lot easier to use and get better results, the Bosch is still great however
richpbrown2 I agree on the power side. I have compared the two. The Mafell is superior on power. Noticeable more when cutting hard woods.
@@trieditusedit5846 I agree the Mafell surely has more power. I tend to do wood work as a hobby so for me the power isn't an issue.
Doing this type of work every day would call for some more grunt for sure!
Nice to see constructive chatter in the comments.
Shame Bosch drills and impact drivers aren't the best...
I have a Bosch table site saw and its lovely too (after buying a better blade)
I too am deeply impressed with my Bosch. But still a tad envious of the Mafell.
Question - the festool website advertises some of their saws as "plunge saw" and some as "track saw." Are plunge saws just track saws that can do plunge cuts and track saws don't?
Without seeing the site, I’d imagine they’re referring to the different ranges of saws eg the TS saws vs the HK; TS saws are plunge saws meant for ‘finer’ woodworking eg cabinetry, the HK saws more for construction/ carpentry. You can use the HK saws for plunge cuts, but it’s not their intended use. HTH. P
The build quality on the Mafell instantly sells it for me. I will probably buy one at some point.
For a super clean cut I make the scoring cut backwards, with the direction of the blade. This way, the top layer is supported by the material underneath, instead of the teeth kicking up on the top layer. (If that all makes sense)
Thanks! Yes, I’ve done the reverse scoring cut before; the test wasn’t really about getting a clean cut though, it was about seeing how they cut in ‘normal’ use especially in comparison to the Mafell scoring cut. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop and a nice bit of testing it was. Never knew the maffell would fit a festool rail. Learn something new every day eh
Thanks for this video.
I’m trying to make the decision
Seems to me, with the mafell, you could use the same technique you use with your festool of lunging by bracing your hand. On the first shallow cut. Am I correct?
Yes, or just set it to a 3mm depth of cut. 👍
Excellent Peter! I have the Maffell and now intend to keep it! Len (Devon 🇬🇧)
I guess you could just duplicate what you do on the Festool Scribing cut, when scribing on the Mafell, so without having to use the special offset devise on the Mafell you should still get a nice finish without any "offset"Gap appearance. Just a thought !!! Love your videos , very informative, keep up the good work. Cheers From Australia...
Oh, yes, of course. But ‘buy a dog & bark yourself’ comes to mind! And thanks! Best wishes from a sunny London! 👍👍😎☀️
@@10MinuteWorkshop"..buy a dog and bark yourself !"...Rolling on the kitchen floor laughing my ass off...(with legs in the air)
That wouldn't work as the tenth of the mm offset is built into the plunge, the blade moves over that tenth on every plunge after it passes the scoring depth. All the score switch does is stop it at scoring depth. So even if you just set the depth to 3 mm and didn't use the switch it still moves over a tenth.
Biggsy1970
Thats not correct, the switch sets the depth and moves the blade over a fraction. If you don't use the switch it doesn't offset at all.
Actually thats the bigger criticism of the mafell because if you use the score cut it cuts into the rails splinter guard by a tenth of a mm, so affects the accuracy of the cut in relation to the splinter guard by a fraction for any future cuts.
It is however probably the only saw you can get a chip free cut from even if you don't have a guide rail to hand by using the scoring facility.
I have the mafell and two festool plunge saws, and generally find the mafell is the better quality saw however the festool splinter guard to the offset side of the blade is more useful and a must when doing hob or sink cut outs if your blade has started to dull.
@@ianglazebrook7628 who told you that ? My info came from Mafell from one of their UK demo guys you'd like to think they know how the tools work 🤔
Hi, just something I wanted to share. Had to cut some melamine panels at work a month ago but I didn't have my festool with me (there was no need for it so far as my jobs on that site mostly included flooring- subfloor, finishings, and metal frame ceilings/partitions + plasterboard. However that week the kitchen fitters quit and there were few urgent jobs to be done that included melamine panels so I was asked to do few extras towards snagging). So I had to borrow a plunge saw off another joiner on site who was cutting replacement shelves for kithcen units (happened to be dewalt). Right in the beginning he said that his blade was pretty worn off and complained about the amount of chipping he was getting while cutting melamine panels. I had a look at the shelves he cut- disaster, nearly looked like they were cut with a framing saw blade. However, having not much other options, I decided to try anyway. Decided to do a test piece at super-slow speed first, and if that didn't work, I planned to use masking tape on the cut to try to get a slightly better finish. I didn;t get to try the tape- while going extremely slow, I was able to get a relatively clean cut (not perfect of course but it exceeded my expectations). I'm curious about whether you experienced similar improvement yourself. thx
Hi, and thanks for sharing. No, I’ve never tried that - I’ll have to give it a go! Must admit I rarely use anything but top speed, but I’ll have a play and see, thanks! 👍👍
Hi Peter, just bought a Bosch 18v pro cordless circular saw, and it uses the Bosch FSN tracksaw rail. They look to me to be identical to the Mafell track rails. Bosch also uses the same rail connector as Mafell does. Might be an idea to check if they're interchangeable.
Oh they are. Mafell make the rails for Bosch, and manufacture some of the parts for the saw as well, though Bosch do the final assembly. 👍
Good honest video peter, I have had the mafell for 5 years now, I use it exclusively for kitchen fitting and wouldn’t change it, once you have had it a while little things like how little overhang is needed on the track to start and finish a cut and the one handed balance really shine
When the festool stops, it must rest to be able to use the saw again, with the mafell it is enough to release the switch, with the festool you need to replace the rubber on the guide more often, because the saw eats it. a narrower guide system results in greater comfort and speed of work (mafell) . much more accurate side saw guide (mafell) ... and many more things, but only a person who works a lot on these saws and a person who cares about the speed of the work can pick them up( mafell)
I’ve had both saws for many years and disagree with everything you say. 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop ...because you don't use them often. everyone knows that when the festoll is turned off, it must "rest" in order for the power to work further, and the mafell cuts further after releasing the switch, how can you not notice it ..?I suggest that I take two of my mafell saws (240 and 110v) two festool (240 110v) plus two Bosch (240 110v) and Makita 240v to you and together with your saws we will record a joint video on your TH-cam, from the test of what I am talking about . agreement ?
Re dust pickup. I think you just compared very good to great. Thank you much.
I have both saws and use the mafell for laminated MDF sheets only. The scoring function works perfectly and doesn’t have the gap on the panels we cut . I gave both saws a comparison by fitting a new blade and splinter guard to the Festool the mafell is better in every department.
🤷♂️ I can only test and report on the saws I have and this is the result. 👍
I bought a nearly new Festool from Craigslist. The track splinter guide strip is attached using a self adhesive and is not holding on well. The saw also has weak power even without any extension cord. Not thrilled about how it rips even with a new rip blade. Bought a dewalt circular saw and used a clamp guide and much more satisfied. Do love the depth of plunge however on festool.
How does extension cord affect the power of the tool??? The further from power plant the fewer electrons one gets?
As you know Peter I have both, my tools are all 110v and yes the Festool has always felt underpowered but I've just allowed for it by going slower and taking two passed. The mafell to me is much better on MFC with the score but I learnt early on not to use the score if butting panels ie a joint on island back panels. My mafell had kicked back a few times and my rails have a few scars, it's not as forgiving as the Festool if you're not concentrating.
That’s interesting, Chris, thanks! Was your Mafell one of the ones that had issues with the bevel cut? I knew a couple of guys who had that problem around the same time. 👍👍🤔
@@10MinuteWorkshop yeah I got mine replaced, they wanted to send it off to Germany to be fixed but I insisted on a new saw. Its still a mm or 2 off the edge on bevel but it is what it is. I think the rest of the saw makes up for it.
Good review Peter. Mafell sells that anti kickback attachment for the rails too, but it's between 20€ and 30€ (no idea what the Festool one costs) I purchased the Mafell saw for the easier blade change and better dust collection (you can improve the Festool saw to the same level with a piece of masking tape), the short 80cm rail and the stronger motor (I had my kitchen build ahead of me with 40mm thick rubberwood countertops and a 120m² flooring to do in the house). With the tracks I'm not sold to any of them, both have their good things and their bad things, I like the Festool clamps more than the Mafell screw clamps which tend to bend and jam in the rails. With the Mafell rails the one handed quick clamps work best. I retrofitted my saw with a Festool Plug It adapter for more convenient use with my shop vac (hose and plug it cord run in a common cable sleeve to avoid snagging, thanks for the idea to Dave Stanton )
So far I'm happy with the Mafell and I think the Festool saw will provide similar quality.
Thanks Jesus; yes, I do mention the ‘tape over the hole’ method to improve dc on the Festool, and while I agree that I could simply not use the scoring function on the Mafell, that’s a bit like having a dog and barking yourself! But I liked the Mafell, a solid saw. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop true, I guess you'd just have to figure out how much the blade moves on your saw and then take it into account
The Mafell isn't a great choice for use on a bench with a guide system. I have the Bosch and the saw overhang on the non cutting side and flexible tracks mean you need to switch to a Festool/Makita rail for bench work (this would I believe be the same with the Mafell) Now I am looking at getting another saw for the workbench so I can leave the Bosch set up for Bosch/Mafell tracks which is frankly kind of silly.
Yes. I like the way the Mafell tracks connect, but otherwise I prefer the Festool. 🤷♂️👍
😎 l've got the Festool 36v battery saw about four years use, amazed at the dust collection just with the zippy bag.
Happy VE day everyone🎇🎆🎊🎇🍻🍷
Thanks! I’ve only played with the 36v haven’t really used one in anger for any length of time, it agree, I was amazed by how good the dust collection was. 👍👍
I have the poor man Mafell, the Bosch. One advantage of the Festool system is there are more 3rd party accessories for Festool linked to the MFT.
The guide system for Bosch is the FSN OFA. This would fit the Mafell rail and I use my DeWalt router on it. You can also get a ‘holy rail’ at 32mm centres. The hole locator system does not work as cleanly as the Festool.
If you are a Festool bloke the box with Bosch or Mafell won’t work Festool when carrying all your kit on to site
Swings and roundabouts to all tools, unless you like them matching colours....
Great review
Thanks! Having had an extended play with the Mafell, I’d like to get my hands on the Bisch, now! 🤷♂️👍
I tested the Mafell a few weeks .. and still bought again Festool ( my second one ) the Mafell has some advantages ..but also some disadvantages compared to the Festool ... and the Mafell was a bit more expensive ..
Yep, pros and cons to both. 🤷♂️👍
Could a track saw be used as the main tool used for making plantation shutters?
My earlier comment disappeared, odd. Returned two Makitas for under-cutting the edge-guide when bevelled (manufacturing error that cant be adjusted out) and was tempted by the Mafell but went with Festool as needed it to work with cutting jigs, bench dogs and UJK Parf gear etc. Mafell motor-housing fouls taller dogs and rails dont work with dog-clips etc. Still think the Mafell is the superior tool in every other regard though, design and quality included. If I was on site regularly I’d choose the Mafell without hesitation.
That’s idd re the previous comment - wasn’t me, I promise! 😂 Yes, I like the Mafell rail design, but find it I’d that the baseplate overhangs the rail - it rules out so many things. 🤷♂️ Good to have the choice though! 👍👍
Great video, thank you for that.
I recently bought a Festool TS55 REBQ Plus, over the competitors.
I'm just a guy who occasionally saws stuff around the house, so any track saw is basically a luxury.
Reasons why I chose the Festool over the Mafell were; Mafell is substantially more expensive, and second the Festool can
saw closer to walls or other objects because of where the dust collector is placed.
Another reason is basically the same as yours; I could buy one.
Just one slight difference; I bought it from a shop that was discontinuing their Festool lineup, so I got it at a super price.
If it were any different, I might have gone with the DeWalt tracksaw, but their track system isn't that good.
It is usable with Festool tracks, but then there is too much play I read somewhere.
Thanks! Sounds like you got a bargain! 👍👍
I wonder what the waste cut on the Mafell would look like if it was on the Festool rail.
Interesting idea. Shouldn’t make a difference - I know the Mafell cut line is different, so you’d need to recut the splinterguard - but might be worth a play while I still have the saw. 🤔👍
I had chance to get the mafell borrowed to me and the scoring cut is as well a concern to me which you could address by the same trick you used on the festool (holding from full depth). Of course then you lose the interest of the switch.
Yes; this saw will be checked over as it doesn’t seem right, but there are more ways to get the scoring cut. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop do I understand correctly that your saw scoring cut switch was creating bigger gap than expected?
I agree with Kevin ref the lack of power from the festool, also I bought my saw with a hoover and didn't use it for a long time only to find it isn't cutting at 90 when I started using it.
Good review.
I do a back cut set at a couple of mm into the MFC with the Festool or set 2 mm into the material like your impromptu scribe cut.
Festool is currently cheaper, another consideration.
I own the Mafell really happy with it but it’s like comparing a Ferrari and a Porsche your gonna like either!
Haha, very true! 👍
I have the Mafell mt 55 it’s very good, I’ve had no problems with the scoring cut function.
Another advantage of a riving knife, completely independent of kickback, is in cutting thin strips of 1/4" (12 mm) or less. Without the knife, these can wobble into the back of the blade, leaving a worse surface.
6 mm not 12
Yes, good point, thanks! 👍👍
I don’t know that I would entirely unhappy with shadow line create by scoring I enjoy your honest commentary I look forward to seeing more
HI Peter what double sided tape to you use as a hold fast when using a router. I have bought the 3M 9088 tape you recommended for use when replacing a splinter guard but is there a cheaper for use when one don't need a high quality tape for more less demanding applications .BTW. I bought the Triton plunge saw ( because I could not get the Titan and disable ant kick back lock as it made it very difficult to use. For most of us the Mafel and Festool are to expensive for the amount of work we do but still interesting to see how they perform . Also I note Triton and Titan and a lot of other saws are of the same design . thanks in advance stay safe .
Thanks Michael! I generally use whatever tape my decorators merchant has. For double-sided, sometimes that’s Tesa tape, sometimes Mammoth. They’re both good quality tapes for general purpose use, when you don’t need the 3M gear. 👍👍
How about if you Ignore the built in scribe cut option on the mafell and do as you did with the Festool.?
After many months of pondering I chose the Mafell, Im not disappointed with my choice.
Yes, both great saws, and yes, you could absolutely do an ‘impromptu’ scoring cut - but the scoring cut should do the job, don’t you think? Out of interest does the scoring function on your Mafell leave the same kind of gap? I’m getting two kinds of responses, some folks saying their is the same as mine & unusable, some saying it works perfectly. 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Sorry for the late reply..
You could argue that the scoring cut does its job. I suppose it all depends how you choose to use that scribe cut. Its so quick to just adjust the depth and do a quick pass scribe then adjust to partial or full depth cut.
I thought long and hard before I finally decided on the Mafell. the stronger motor. dust extraction and rail set up was far better with Mafell.
I find the grip with Mafell rails is excellent, alignment is always spot on. The Rails are so beautifully engineered, nice clamps and the anti chip strip doesn't peel. I also cut quite a bit of calcium silicate boards with the Mafell its never kicked back on me, rails have never slipped and its never failed to impress me.
@@soa324 No problem, appreciate the reply, thanks! 👍