A Deep Dive into Star Fox Zero's Controls
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2016
- 🔴 Get bonus content by supporting Game Maker’s Toolkit - gamemakerstoolkit.com/support/ 🔴
Star Fox Zero has a bizarre control scheme, seemingly made to justify the Wii U gamepad. In this deep dive critique, I look at what Nintendo and Platinum were trying to pull off and see where they succeeded - and where they failed.
Games shown in this episode (in order of appearance):
Star Fox Zero (Nintendo / PlatinumGames, 2016)
Star Fox (Nintendo, 1993)
Star Fox 64 (Nintendo, 1997)
Space Harrier II (Sega, 1988)
Star Fox Assault (Namco, 2005)
Kid Icarus: Uprising (Project Sora, 2012)
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor (Treasure, 2009)
Ratchet and Clank (Insomniac, 2016)
Duke Nukem Forever (Gearbox, 2011)
Starhawk (LightBox Interactive, 2012)
Splatoon (Nintendo, 2015)
Affordable Space Adventures (KnapNok Games, 2015)
ZombiU (Ubisoft Montpellier, 2012)
Dirt Rally (Codemasters, 2015)
Bayonetta 2 (PlatinumGames, 2014)
Star Fox Command (Q-Games, 2006)
Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (Retro Studios, 2014)
The Wonderful 101 (PlatinumGames, 2013)
Uncharted 4: A Thief's End (Naughty Dog, 2016)
Music used in this episode:
Corneria (Star Fox)
Controls (Star Fox)
Continue (Star Fox)
Course Select Map (Star Fox)
Select Screen (Star Fox 64)
Corneria (Star Fox)
Title (Star Fox 2)
Other credits
Nintendo: "Corporate Management Policy Briefing"
www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/libr...
Nintendo UK: "Star Fox Zero - Dev Team Interview: Part One"
www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2016/M...
TIME: "9 Things Shigeru Miyamoto Told Us About the New Star Fox"
time.com/4245215/starfox-wii-u/
USgamer: "Star Fox Zero in Hindsight"
www.usgamer.net/articles/star-...
Polygon: "Star Fox Zero is about trying new things - whether old-school fans like it or not"
www.polygon.com/2016/4/22/1149...
Reviews:
www.wired.com/2016/04/star-fox...
www.theverge.com/2016/4/20/114...
www.thenational.ae/arts-life/v...
www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/t...
www.cityam.com/239885/star-fox...
Star Fox 64 100% Speed Run Leaderboard
www.speedrun.com/sf64#100
Zallard1 on Twitter
/ zallard1sda
Contribute translated subtitles - amara.org/v/C3BF7/ - เกม
I love how, when quoting an article, you not only put the quote on screen, but you also put that entire section of the article on screen, so we could get some context. Great journalism
Glad someone mentioned that. Not to say that people don't recognize it at all but these videos have such great editing little things like that can be overlooked and its great to see them recognized as deliberate choices.
Certainly better than quoting a grand total of six words from someone to falsely accuse them of something for the sole purpose of protecting your narrative, but I digress
@@jameswalker199 yeah its really sad how common this sort of cherry picking has become, and its annoying that we are forced to go and find every article and double check to make sure that isnt happening. What he does here cuts out that work for us!
unless you are talking about some specific example i havent heard of involving this channel
“How many eyes does Myamoto have?” Good question.
two, which is enough for two screens
@@janmatula1534 pretty sure he has 23
Cheese Boi heard that too, but im pretty sure its just a myth.
Two but he's secretly a chameleon
Atleast 3
What a bizarre choice for Miyamoto. I thought his mantra was to create a mechanic first, then build a game around it. But then again you probably don't have that luxury in a sequel/prequel.
But you definitely should do more videos on mechanics that Don't work Mark.
Wow, fancy seeing you here! I love your Fact Hunt videos!
EDIT: You guys are right, Miyamoto's still got some magic in him, I just totally forgot about a lot of what Nintendo's been doing.
I wonder if Miyamoto's losing his touch. His last really original game design I can think of was Pikmin, over a decade ago.
That's just off the top of my head though, hopefully he worked on something interesting that I'm just not remembering.
Wouldn't that be Nintendogs? Or Wii Fit?
He also has a design credit on Super Mario Galaxy, and that one was pretty good.
Ethan Garen
Thanks bud :)
Miyamoto is not losing his touch - he was lumped with an untenable situation and did okay given the circumstances. He designed Star Fox Guard and that's actually pretty good. The console was the turkey, not the designer.
Nice video! It's also worth noting that the tweets you quoted of mine were right around when the game had first released. I have since gotten used to a lot more of the quirks the game has. I don't launch bombs accidentally any more, but maneuvers like somersault/u-turn still have unnecessary mappings on the sticks that speed/score runners still struggle with. I also dislike barrel rolls being mapped to the right stick, but I do sort of see their reasoning in mapping it there. I believe they wanted all the maneuvers and movements to be accessible from both analog sticks only, and shots being accessible from the triggers only. That way you don't have to hold the controller "claw style" to break/boost & shoot at the same time, which is something you would have to do in SF64 often for score. I would still prefer other custom mappings, but I'm not as critical on them as I was very early on the game's release. If anything, I just wish I could disable the u-turn/somersault mappings on the sticks and just have them be "only" mapped to B/X. Control options should always be included though. They never really hurt, and I doubt people would have complained about the slight decrease in accuracy for the ability to use an intuitive controller.
Personally though, I actually find the dual screen thing not a huge problem anymore, same goes for the gyro aiming. Granted, I do most of my aiming on the cockpit screen as a result. I pretty much use the 3rd person screen as a way to recognize how far stuff is away from me, which in turn does mean that screen doesn't get my attention nearly as often. It's sort of the "rear-view mirror" of the game if that makes any sense. What's truly bizarre though, is if you launch "Co-Op" mode, they allow you to play through whatever stage you pick, but can control everything with a Pro controller! But shockingly, you cannot use chargeshots/upgrades/bombs on that controller at all; it's only accessible on the gamepad buttons. It's kind of a tease because I guess no one would use the gamepad anymore if had the same functionality but all mapped to a comfortable controller, haha.
Anyways that's all I have to say for the moment. Feel free to ask me questions if anyone still happens to have any!
With Barrel Rolls being on right stick, how do you prefer to use them? Because I found recently the method of flicking from left to right and right to left using the barrel roll, which seems more efficient than the double-tap method...but it's also a little less intuitive to me, partially because I spent my first few playthroughs of the game only using double-tap, and also because the Walker and Landmaster can only barrel-roll via the double-tap.
Thanks for clarifying that Zallard, people have too much of ahard time trying new things, the controls work fine once you get used to them.
I started off with double tapping a direction for rolling, but once I found that you can tap opposite directions, that was definitely the way to go in the Arwing. I would still prefer them to be on R/L instead though, but hey, no option to select them. I do understand the deal with the other vehicles only rolling with double tap being confusing though; not really sure why they made it that way tbh.
The reason is pretty apparent . Barrels Rolls through out the games were done by double tapping the bank button, same deal here. One adjustment they should do, is remove the Walker Rolling when hitting quickly opposite directions.
I hate the lack of options in most first-party Nintendo games. I don't care if they're console games instead of PC games...I want options. Changing the SFX and music volume, mapping different buttons...other stuff that I can't think of right now...
One particular annoyance to me is a lack of full customization of item selection in Mario Kart. If I could, I would disable the Lightning item while keeping everything else in Mario Kart 8, but I can't... I also can't play a versus match with 6 races...the closest is 5, and after that it goes to 8, which is a weird limitation.
"In their own uniquely crap way" Savage.
It's cool to see you on here. I'm a big fan of your videos too!
Also note:
" 'completely confused'(?), that sounds more like polygon's review than a developer's quote."
Late reply but also also note: "For an example of how to do this without a second screen let's look at- what? Star Fox Zero?"
I spilled my water when I heard this.
Turbo Button Also 1:38 “A bit of a trash fire”
Being a pilot, it occurs to me to put an instrument view on the controller display while most of the game visuals are on the screen. Some missions might occur in darkness or fog, requiring the player/pilot to go "heads down" and control the ship on instruments, while being largely "heads up" for VFR maneuvers and dog fighting.
Instead of having to switch between two similar but different enough views constantly during a dogfight, the game might be controlled with one for a few minutes, occasionally glancing at the other and then switch to be the other way around for a few minutes. That could keep the game fresh and provide complexity, while keeping the controls more natural.
I completely agree that sabotaging the reticle in order to force gamers to use the handheld display is a poor idea--and it's been seen in other Nintendo games. For two console generations now they've launched gimmicky hardware before they'd written games for it, found that not many games really need that kind of hardware, and then they have to bend games into strange shapes to get them to work. Twilight Princess used the analog stick to swim. Skyward Sword used the newfangled Wii Plus to control swimming, while the perfectly good analog stick did dick all. It's cost Nintendo more than they think.
"Instruments" also meaning radar, status readouts of your wingmen, and using the touchscreen for the game's secondary/tertiary functions? If so, I am down with this.
HOLY SHIT YOU'RE A PILOT
Been one for 11 years now.
I think an Occulus Starfox would actually work...
Star Fox GUARD on the other hand... now that's a single player game that you need the gamepad to play. Because it's a completely unique idea built for the system from the ground-up instead of being an old one that was retrofitted and made needlessly complicated.
As a fan of Star Fox and the tower defense genre, I consider Star Fox Guard to be a hidden gem
@@kumatorahaltmanndreemurr It’s really solid. I recently bought Star Fox Zero and Star Fox Guard for 45$ CAD (a great deal) and I am loving both of them. I used to rent the games but the shop closed and now that I own them it’s really good. I was especially surprised by Star Fox Guard which I hadn’t tried.
"A Fisher-Price iPad" is definitely my favorite description of the Wii U gamepad to date 😂
This kind of system would probably be great in a co-op game, where one player focuses of piloting and not getting hit while the other fires away with a variety of weapons
Slightly late in responding, but Zero can be played completely in co op just the way you've described and it's a pretty fun way to play the game
@@Zebliin also very late but can confirm on the local co-op being super good. I used to play that a bunch with my friends, it’s a real blast! Honestly I think Nintendo should’ve sold SFZ as primarily a co-op game because it’s easily way more fun than single player.
THIS CAN BE DONE IN GAME ALREADY
The sad thing is that Nintendo has been making pretty worthwhile 2-screen experiences for awhile on the DS. I'd honestly give an arm and a leg to see something in The World Ends With You's setting show up on the WiiU. Now *that* I think would work exceptionally well.
I for one really enjoyed the "cinematic feel" that Miyamoto was talking about. I felt so cool after shooting down a missile and I flew away from the explosion in slow-mo. I loved when I had to break through the enemy's shield by using the hole they opened to fire through. The game makes you feel really cool. And I don't see the problem everybody has with the controls. It's easy enough to aim using the arwing as long as you don't flail your arms around all the time (changing the motion controls to not always on does help a lot, I must admit). The walker mode has old 3rd person game controls, but I got used to them extremely quickly. You can easily strafe by barrel rolling or pressing target, you can turn in place using the right stick, it really isn't hard to use. The gyrowing controls just like the gunship in Nintendo Land's Metroid Blast minigame... The landmaster controls just like you'd expect a tank to.
This game does require you to think a little deeper about the controls than the average game. While many games now simply have controls as a tool to allow you to achieve a totally different goal, Star Fox Zero's goal seems more to be to master the controls, and the enemies are the tools that allow you to show off your expertise.
Just my opinion... I had a blast with the game, and I can't understand how people can't grasp the controls... Simply experiment and you'll figure it out.
I think the two screens were probably the main issue here, rather than the controls. The motion probably could work with a Switch Pro controller.
Finally someone that gets it! I feel the same way and I don’t think this game is a Miyamoto failure. It felt so epic at time and mastering the controls was so much fun.
@@CyberLink70 You can use the minus button to swap the cockpit view to the TV screen and back again. However that doesn't change the fact that this game is hard!!!!!
In my opinion the games that use the GamePad best are the ones that use it in a supplemental, non-intrusive way for menus and maps and such, like Xenoblade Chronicles X and The Wind Waker HD. Besides that kind of use, Super Mario Maker is the only other game I can think of right now that really uses it well.
Late to the party I know, but I disagree with Xenoblade being a good use of it as "supplemental", since there is no way to access the map, quick travel system, or probe management without the gamepad. That moves it from supplemental ( a handy optional thing if you want it ) to critical in my mind.
Same with Mirage sessions, a game in which the protagonists communicate through a chat (much like in Persona 5) but for some reason you can only do so on the game pad, making it a necessity in the game for no discernible reason.
Don't forget Pikmin 3!
Nintendoland? Pikmin 3? Splatoon? Rainbow Curse?
"Nintendo failed in game control"
That's new. They usually don't.
After playing this game and dropping it after about 10 minutes, I completely agree with your analysis. All these problems feel like Nintendo could patch them with very little effort and save themselves a lot of bad publicity. Their overall response to the criticism so far sounds like complete indifference.
Even Factor 5 had to cave in for Lair and add a patch allowing for analog controls.
You dropping the game after 10 minutes shows that your opinion on the game is unimportant and biased. You can’t say a game is bad just because you aren’t immediately good at it. People like you are likely the reason why Nintendo is afraid to implement challenge into their games.
@@wiiu-theunderratedconsole7569Quit brown nosing Nintendo and supporting terrible and gimmicky design decisions that they force into otherwise decent games.
@@tetermc How about you stop calling everything you don’t immediately master gimmicky and learn how to actually play the game?
Listening/watching this while I farm on another game made me realize something... I want to see a game where one player fly the ship, and another player operate the gun. Like an ariel dogfighter game with the idea as a core-mechanic.
Jarro Thoughts the coop mode of star fox zero
Beyond the infamously awful controls, this game is just so dull to look at - there's nothing appealing about the art direction or rendering. It's just ugly and wouldn't look like fun even if I had no idea the controls are universally despised.
Great explanation of the controls, though! Love this channel, keep up the good work :)
+Daniel King Seriously. I usually hate the shit Nintendo gets for it's graphics, but this actually looks like a late PS2/launch Xbox 360 game.
+Daniel King It looks worse than some Gamecube games.
Which fucks up his whole idea of the game looking cool.
It's not just the technical shit either. The design looks like an n64 game.
+AlexLong1000 I think that's because the console has to render two different images (both running at 60 fps) at the same time, the one on the TV screen and the other one on the gamepad screen. I guess that's pretty hardware demanding. Still, the artstyle is pretty bland...
Jun Bird
How much difference does it make? Anybody know their tech?
Geeeee8 As much as I know, nope.
Wait, you PLAYED Duke Nukem Forever to record footage for that gag? You really are dedicated to this, aren't you Mark?
"A tiny low-res Fisher-Price iPad" ouch.
One minor thing to point out -- Even in Star Fox 64, the reticle was "inaccurate" and fixed at a set distance from your ship, rather than at an infinity point. Your shots have always gone past them. It's just more noticeable in Zero. Or perhaps the reticles are closer to your ship in Zero so it's more exaggerated.
the enemies are generally farther away in zero, and you couldn't influence the reticule at all in 64 aside from just moving the ship. that's what makes it feel so much more inaccurate
@@ralphthejedimaster Star-fox Zero has a minus button that lets you swap between the two screens at anytime.
its pretty interesting to see pre-switch era reviews like this one concerning gyro control games. I think a remaster of Zero on the switch, dropping screen controls and fixing some other issues would be a really solid game
Honestly my biggest problem with Starfox Zero's controls is not that they're motion controls. Not even the having to look at two screens constantly (which is still infuriating). It's the fact that the moment you start to get used to it they throw at you a completely different vehicle mode with a control scheme that not only is it different but sometimes downright contradicts the previous one. For example the chicken walker's hover ability being triggered by pushing DOWN on the right stick (to go UP, really intuitive) and the next section switching to the Gyro which ascends by pressing UP instead of DOWN like the previous vehicle.
Glad to see this review. It actually helped me realize why I still seemed to be having problems with controlling my vehicles even after extending play and practice (was ready to admit that I probably 100% sucked). There is something here that could work in a future Star Fox game: just taking the basic idea of using motion to shoot while using analog to steer your Arwing and refining that (makes me wonder why we didn't get a Star Fox on Wii). Everything else that Miyamoto attempted, though I willed myself into liking it at first...yeah, that needs to go into the trash.
For a developer best known for putting gameplay first, the fact that they were concerned with visual spectacle and trying to use the entire toolkit rather than stopping to think about which tools would actually benefit the end-user...that's just sad. I never thought about before, but you're right. Of the devs that have been able to really use the Gamepad to its potential, Nintendo isn't really one of them. Shame, that.
Thanks so much for this video. I realize I'm 6 years after the fact, but my friend and I just played this game (over on our channel). I definitely agree that the controls are way too much for a solo player. However, we played the entire game co-op, and that makes all of the difference. We had such a blast with one of us flying while the other took care of all of the in-cockpit shooting.
I wish you would have touched on how the controls really sing in a co-op context, although I understand the premise of this video was based on Nintendo's attempt to validate the Wii U gamepad in a single-player experience.
I love watching all your videos, although I somehow managed to miss watching this one. It's now one of my favorite episodes because it points out how far the developers abandoned their own way of making games in order to accommodate gameplay that doesn't really make any sense. Even pointing out that there was a solution for many of their own problems in their own game already was what sold me on how ridiculous it is.
To be honest, I liked how they implemented the second screen in Wind Waker HD. Loved that I could play the game, look at the map, change items and never need to pause like previous zelda titles... I was kind of sad when breath of the wild lost those mechanics because of the switch.
I look forward to these videos on a regular basis, thank you Mark for making them :)!
"Bayonetta 2 has a mode where you can play with one hand."
Oh my.
LOL
I think the final boss sold me on the concept. They didn't get it right all the time, but at thast boss I really did think it made sense. That boss used every concept in the game very well
Other problems:
-No competitive multiplayer
-Be another reimagination of the Super Famicom's Star Fox
-Low quality textures for the most part
WOW! Exceptional job! Personally I enjoy Star Fox Zero and got used to the control scheme quickly...but I also found I could pat my head and rub my stomach at the same time after playing a plethora of poorly designed Wii games (seriously. true story.) so that could be a thing. Even still, your statements ring true and finding out that the reason behind the game was a business meeting makes a LOT more sense.
I WILL say the lock-on view dual screen thing improved All-Range Mode MASSIVELY for me. I HATE it as a GENRE everywhere else except Star Fox Zero (and Skygunner). Using the dual screens, aimable retiule, and lock-on view in tandem made for the best Star Wolf duels ever and I loved it...which makes the lack of multiplayer all the more baffling and frustrating! I want to test my skills with this weird control scheme against other players! I wanna flaunt my Chicken Walker skills (I love the Chicken Walker so much)! Why develop a game like this and not let me fight others online?!
Also the tacked on nature of the co-op is frustrating. It's the best part of the game! Having a second player to handle the tilt aiming DRASTICALLY improves the game and it becomes a BLAST! Not to mention if you're thinking about it, you'd know that as the gunner you shouldn't shoot straight ahead because the pilot has that stuff handled and you wanna aim at more extreme angles and this gets crazy fun because now you have a unique view different from the other player yet still interacting with it. But...somehow Nintendo managed to shortchange this.
As for Nintendo being the company that doesn't take advantage of its own system? Well they did that with the Wii too. They barely produced any true motion control games for it and the ones they did were a mess. Somehow, Red Steel 2 was just waaay better than Skyward Sword in the controls department.
...now to go look up these Advanced Scoring Techniques. My interest is piqued!
6:48 "Inaccurate?" Mate, that's more than a mere inaccuracy. The game outright lies to you on one screen just to justify the use of the other in a situation where it otherwise would be redundant. That's a Freudian slip on Nintendo's part if ever I saw one, that demonstration alone showcases this game's failure.
Not really inaccurate; each of those boxes is set a certain distance along the lasers' path. The boxes don't match up with the final point of impact on the TV because the TV is seeing the boxes from a different angle; that's also why the gamepad always shows the boxes as perfectly nested while the TV doesn't. What you have there is essentially a ranging error. Star Fox 64 did the same thing; the main difference was that it didn't ask you to shoot from as far away as this game seems to, so the effect was less noticeable.
Edit: Aaaand that's a two-year-old comment. Whoops.
@@kaymarx9677 yeah, SF64 had much smaller environments due to hardware and thus, enemies were always pretty close. i think they went a little overboard with how far away some enemies are in zero, if they stayed closer this wouldn't be much of an issue. you can still aim decently on the main screen if you learn the trajectory
I just found this video. And now I suddenly understand why my experience (liking this game a lot) does not match the majority.
The boss fights really left an impression on me, so I just kind of... forgot about everything else?
Incidentally, the boss fights are the only segments of the game where the dual screen gameplay has any really good use.
Learning and Video Games my 2 favorite things that are often each others foes... I've found channel that combines the 2, Instant sub thanks man! I'll be binging everything over the next couple days.
I had a much easier time with Star Fox: Zero after i figured it out you could swap out the screens with the + and - buttons
The wii u gamepad is as useful as the touch pad in the ps4 controller
That thing was a touchpad?!
Did any devs ever utilize DS4 touchpad properly? I heard that it served as another button in most games..
Killzone Shadowfall used it more than most games, I think. It was pretty good.
I'm glad you analyzed how exactly the control scheme worked and how it didn't work, and how you point out games that has done what Nintendo are trying to do with the game pad. I see people using star fox zero as the excuse to bash the game pad entirely.
Great video. Amazing production values!
I absolutely lovvvvve these videos, such high quality.
I'd quite like to play Star Fox Zero, though I'm preparing myself...
Dunno if Wonderful 101 was the best example to use to make your point about games that use the Wii U gamepad to create a unique experience in an intuitive way. One thing that The Wonderful 101 is not is intuitive. It's a very fun game, but most players will probably struggle even just in the first area with the tank enemies because the ability you need to consistently defeat them is hidden away in the shop.
It's interesting to see Miyamoto attempt a platinum-style game though! The decisions built around making the game look cool for spectators and the emphasis on deep, but complicated scoring systems and controls is pure Platinum philosophy. I know it's made a lot of people question if Miyamoto has lost his touch, but I would remind those people that this is a very non-Miyamoto type of game, so it's not a spectacular barometer. Additionally, outside of Star Fox 64 (and curiously enough, Star Fox Adventures), Star Fox has never reviewed especially well. I would speculate that the cause of this is that Japan doesn't really care for the series to begin with, which may cause Nintendo to put less of an emphasis on its development.
I don't, strictly speaking, hate any of the problems that were brought up in this video. The game still works, it's just possible for it to work better, or more intuitively. And it is worth noting that the controls aren't necessarily the problem so much as the levels built to facilitate the controls are so sparse. This could be a symptom of a general lack of ambition for this title. Again I would speculate this is because the game's development was de-emphasized.
the most confusing game on the Wii U for sure.
TW101 is not intuitive, but I think that's not what he says in the video. He talks about "accesibility". TW101 has several difficulty levels, a lot of in-game useful tips and the game is clearly designed so that unexperienced players can still go through it and have fun without much problems. Zero just gives you a training mode and an invencibility item once you have lost several times, which is like telling you how bad player you are.
From what I remember, playing the Wonderful 101 for the first time was probably one of my most frustrating gaming experiences to date. In fact, it still is. The game escalates far too quickly and the complexity of the gameplay features is sometimes too much to soak in.
Star Fox Zero is a different problem for me. I did have frustrations with the controls, but eventually got used to them for the most part. The problem I have with it is none other than the unwanted amount of vehicles that players are literally forced to use. Each vehicle has a different control scheme and are completely unnecessary. The only vehicles I don't mind playing as is the Arwing (of course), the Landmaster, and the new Walker is OK but that could be swapped with the landmaster or visa versa. Every other vehicle doesn't do anything that the other vehicles can do or could have been easily programmed to do.
The wonderful 101 is very easy to complete and experience, but very, very hard to master.
As a life time Platinum games fan (i have gotten all of their games at launch) i can say it's possibly the most complicated game they have made , and by far the hardest to master.
@@adammalkovich187 The walker comes from Star fox 2. Also Star-fox Zero has a minus button that lets you swap between the two screens at anytime.
Cool video. You sounded kinda different this time around, you usually talk in a more formal and "professional" way. The voiceover was pretty "weird", it felt like you were more personally invested than usual in the matter of the video. Really good job anyway.
I didn't buy the game already, but I'm still planning to do it, because I feel like this could be a cute and pretty fun game anyway... but also because I'm really looking forward to try out this infamous control scheme. To be honest, all the criticism made me want to buy this game even more, I'm just too curious about it, don't care if it's bad, I want to experience it.
+Jun Bird Well this happened to me too - all the reviews made me want to see exactly what Nintendo had done. And as for the narration - just trying out a more conversational style. Always experimenting!
+Game Maker's Toolkit I have to admit I wasnt expecting the new style either. But after thinking about it I think I like it. There's nothing wrong with some emotion. All with all, another job very well done!!! I'll be looking forward to the next episode.
+Game Maker's Toolkit I prefer it.
@@GMTK You can use the minus button to swap the cockpit view to the TV screen and back again. However that doesn't change the fact that this game is hard!!!!!
Just found your channel, awesome stuff man!
Great video, keep up the good work.
Timing the "Hey" at the start of the video with the music sting after the drums in the music is very good
Screw this, I loved Star Fox Zero's controls just fine! They weren't hard to get used to, and I got good very fast, so I agree with Hashimoto (or whatever his name is): deal with it, and get used to it.
I found the control scheme extremely rewarding and fun, and the overall game to be the only Star Fox game in the series to out do Star Fox 64.
People need to get good before saying nonsense.
I liked the narration of this video :D I laughed out loud a couple of times. But I still do enjoy the more formal and neutral approach of narration. Great video in any case!
My favourite Wii U games are Twilight Princess HD and The Wind Waker HD, since everything happens on the TV, but you have an ever-present map and inventory on the GamePad. This means I can quickly glance at the GamePad to figure out where I'm going before focusing on the TV for the action, or study the map on the touch screen. Same goes for Pikmin 3, actually, and that's another one of my favourites.
"A bit of a trash-fire"
TY I needed that.
I loved the controls in Zero. Best SF controls ever. I just didn't like how it was a re-imagining. Adventures and Assault are my favorites.
The dual screen stuff isn't an issue when you can put the gamepad screen on TV.
Agreed
Thank you for the use of the SNES Starfox soundtrack. Always gives me goosebumps.
Great job! Lovely video
I've been an hardcore Nintendo fan my entire life. I've gone through all the necessary stages: Wonder and Awe, Annoying Fanboyism and now just exhaustion. One of the things that makes Nintendo so great is how innovative they are no matter what the cost. In many cases this has worked very well for them. The DS(Dual Screen) is the the 2nd best selling console of all time and has hosted a plethora of games that used both screens in an innovative and fun way. The Wii, which introduced the world to motion controls sold over 100 million units and had grandparents everywhere bowling in their living rooms. So I'll admit then when it works it works wonders, but in recent years Nintendo has had failure after failure trying to create something new and innovative and it's really starting to hurt.
What I'm trying to say is that Nintendo right now is like a gambler throwing money away saying "This is gonna be the one guys, trust me.", just because they hit it big a few times in the past(Wii, DS). What the need to do now is realize and accept their mistakes and then move on. With the announcement of the NX and the exciting footage of Zelda NX things are starting to look a little brighter, but for everyone's sake Ninetendo... Please... Just let the NX have a normal controller.
Exhaustion is the perfect description of a Nintendo fan right now haha.
actually, I want to have a more dynamic controls set, scrollable bumpers and rotating force feedback sticks is what the controller needs, this has been the longest period a control scheme hasn't evolved... and now its stagnant...especially now that PC is taking over the console space as mobile and handhelds dominate and throw into question where consoles go... Nintendo needs to bring the controller into the 21st century rather than imitate motion waggle, perhaps, innovating on top of the pro controller or the Dual Shock 4, with has accelerometers and gyros as well as a touch pad. Valve's pad did show an amalgamation of a keyboard and mouse and a controller (albeit a very strange version of it.) perhaps the VMU is what Nintendo is looking at.
Most of these problems get automatically solved when you get a Pro Controller and play with someone else, one staring at the GamePad and the other controlling the ship. Once you do this, the game turns out to be really fun, but not something to get addicted to
The select button makes the Tv display the gamepad view I really can't fathom why people fail to mention this. Especially this video which was otherwise really well thought out.
10:25 AUUCH Sick BURN!
My take on Star Fox Zero's dual-screen idea is ... this idea should have been ON THE 3DS. Part of the problem with the Wii U gamepad is it's a different focus distance than your TV screen -- you literally cannot pay attention to both at the same time because only one will be in focus.
Whereas on the 3DS (or even DS) the two screens are right next to each other at the same focus distance, and even though you'll be paying most of your attention to one screen over (or under, hah) the other, alternating between them is faster and more efficient.
yes!
Another GamePad-using game you didn't list - Xenoblade Chronicles X has a whole resource-gathering subgame on the map, and the ability to do that while moving from A to B is quite nice. Also having that much more detailed information on the map from the extra screenspace.
Didn't like the game itself much, the plot didn't grab me, but the GamePad was used well.
I was hoping to at least see a mention of Star Fox Guard since that too required two screens but made better use of it.
Wow, this is the exact video i wanted. A deep look at what they were trying to achieve with wii u controls
Wow. This video was savage. Loved it.
This guy nailed it. Excellent video, very in depth. As a big Star Fox fan, I felt like there were times the game didn't want me to succeed. The fact that they made the health considerably lower than Star Fox 64 and the mapping of the barrel roll (which I thought was the biggest misstep of all) made it much less reliable than past games.
A game that could benefit from two screens? Hot seat strategy games? TV could be an overview of the map, zooming in on current visible action and the handheld could show the current play specifics like Stealth units and stuff like that.
You came away with many of the same conclusions I had. However, there is one thing I'd add, which is that the television display is best used for obstacle courses and the gamepad for precision aiming, and the real issue is that the game is constantly demanding that both get your undivided attention.
I think that's the real issue with the game, and why the "best" level (where "best" means "most intuitive use of the control scheme") is surprisingly the stealth one. The stealth mission with the gyrocopter is more slowly paced and doesn't require you to be constantly looking up and down between the two views hoping to hit everything while also dodge everything. If the levels were designed so you only needed to focus on just one at a time, or place primary focus on one at a time, then it would play "better", but would also be lacking a lot of the arcade-obstacle nature of the prior games (mostly Star Fox SNES and Star Fox 64).
I will disagree in regards to the boss battles, but that may more be because I've always preferred SNES Star Fox (might be a result of not owning an N64) and never having been fond of all-range mode's execution. So that could just be my personal preference.
I have one question: How did you record the gamepad?
+BtheDestroyer Magic
he pressed the select/minus button during gameplay
YOU DICK!!!
mate i dont know what your problem is miyamoto is just trying to be cool why wont you let miyamoto be cool quit being so jive
In all seriousness, I really enjoyed this video. Slightly more personal and informal in delivery, but no less informative. Really enjoyed seeing more of your personality coming through in your delivery.
Wtf
great video, bro
It seems like this would have been way better as a co-op focused game. You have one person fly the ship itself getting into position and avoiding enemy fire with its own primary fire similar to the old star fox games. Player two would play with the pad for more precise shooting. Shooting spots that are near impossible for player one to hit as well as being able to control bombs and any other secondary artillery.
I highly recommend Nerrel's video on this game and the Wii U. He really shows how emblematic this game is of the failure of the console as a whole.
I love that during the Wii-U era, Nintendo collectively forgot the DS exists
What's ironic is that this game was supposed to prove that the gamepad, and the unique styles of gameplay it offers, could be well implemented in a single-player game, yet it's a game that is best played with two players where one player uses the pro-controller and focusses solely on movement and the other player uses the game and focusses solely on combat. Playing in this manner is a lot easier and as a result, a lot more fun.
They made this game to prove what the DS proved years ago? I'm confused.
Great video!
I didn't expect to have fun hearing mark angry, worth it
The extra kicker? Bayonetta 2 has an optional mode where you pilot an Arwing and the controls are just like the ones in Starfox 64. Yes, Platinum made a Star Fox easter egg in another game with better controls than Star Fox Zero.
There's something that I had hoped would be adressed in a video about Star Fox Zero's controls, but wasn't: some functions are mapped multiple times. The right stick functions can be moved to ABXY, and switching vehicles moved to the directional cross. You could even map tilt left/right to... gasp... L and R. This would completely do away with the need for the gyroscope, and appease half of the complaints. They could even give an option in-game to toggle between the two control schemes... crazy, right?
And don't get me started on the walker controls. The same stick used to both rotate, and do a left/right flip is causing me so many headaches. Why not just map one of the stick to rotate (instead of both), and map strafing to the other?
All in all I somehow got used to the controls, but still think they are stupid. In the end I only play on the TV screen and just switch using - when the games really requires it, it's faster than looking at the gamepad.
Nice video, I've been on the fence with this game for a long time and now I can really strike it off my list. I think the original Splatoon used the gamepad effectively by displaying the map and allowing for quick jumping, it's something I really miss in the sequel.
Games I thought used the gamepad really well are Splatoon and Lego city undercover, which I just now realized mostly used them as maps or motion controls and they are both being taken to the switch.
I feel like this could've been a decent concept for some cooperative flight simulator: one player is the pilot (TV) and the other is the gunner (gamepad)
It's good for coop, but single player...? Hell, I can barely play some games on one screen...
I loved the analysis you've made in this video about how while they tried to make an attempt of making an experiment, that experiment lead to a failure in controls.
To be honest, nobody would've complained about this if they decided to use another controller configuration in a more traditional way. But nooo, they decided to go for full experimentation instead of having a safe method if that experimentation resulted in a complicated mess.
But it is very strange to see nintendo trying to say that you should get used to the weird controls of the game, when they're the ones who make their games as easy to use as possible with great controls, hopefully they'll never try to pull this stuff again and focus on controls and mechanics first rather than on experimentations.
I didn't tried the game, but i really wanted to like this one, aalthough the controls does turn me off.
I was turned off of this game the moment they first showed off dropping the robot buddy from the gyrocopter. When a game can advertise such a lame feature, all for the sake of a gimmick, it doesn't bode well for the direction the game is going in. The idea of taking a game that controlled well on the N64 and translating it to an experimental control scheme just to sell a console feature 4 years after launch is preposterous. I see a lot of fans argue that the controls aren't bad once you get used to them but is anyone going to argue that the game is actually better for their inclusion? I like Nintendo a lot and adore Platinum but I know I won't enjoy this game.
+MrRudiMentary I actually thought the robot was a nice idea to include some puzzle-solving gameplay for variety. It turned out that you only use the robot to enter a small hole and press a big button you can't possibly miss, thats it. You cannot explore with it or go through some sort of maze for more complex puzzles. Just another reason to justify the use of the gamepad.
I'd argue it is better. Mostly in on dogfight sections
Controls are more precise and immersive than the previous games, with this 2 facts is up to the player to decide if they feel it's "better".
Etrigan Slaves Precision isn't really the word I'd use as much as I would use freedom
The gyroscope is more precise than a thumbstick without aim assit. However, "freedom" is an intersti word to use. It really gives the sensation of freedom when youuse the gamepad to shoot outside of the TV confines. It is something you can't do with something like a 360 controller.
Am I the only person that actually likes Zero's control scheme? I genuinely enjoy it, especially as someone who's been a Star Fox fan since the first game. I can understand the confusion that comes with the control scheme and two-screen conundrum; but for whatever reason, I have no problem discerning for myself which screen to look at and at what time. Actually, it's part of the fun for me.
I do have to say, though, that the GyroWing does suck, and the chicken walker controls are bafflingly designed. Why do both sticks control your direction, as opposed to having left stick control the strafing while right stick controls direction? That's a surprising lack of common sense from the folks at Platinum.
On another note, I can't help but dispute the idea that SF Zero included a training mode because of the controls alone. Star Fox and Star Fox 64 both had their own training modes, so it's really nothing new to the franchise. It IS the most robust training mode in the franchise, though; so I can understand the reasoning that the unorthodox control scheme had something to do with that.
Anyway: As usual, this was a fantastic, thought provoking video on game design! It's good to hear your two cents on this subject.
The fact that nintendo made an entire system based around a gimmick they themselves couldn't make a single sodding game with even after several years just shows what an absolute circus nintendo were in the wii u days. What in the name of god were they thinking?
I saw the gameplay videos of Star Fox Zero and thought it looked amazing, it was like how my 12 year old brain thought Star Fox 64 looked. I was so disappointed to hear how much everyone hated it, I never had a Wii U anyway but it seems like aside from the controls this was a stellar game. I really wish they'd port this to Switch and incorporate those controls and give this game a second chance
I would not call Star Fox Zero's controls bad, honeslrt i would say they are good but really weird. They have a steep learning curve and are totally unorthodox but they function perfectly and there was never a moment when I felt the game hampered me. I applaud Nintendo for wanting to experiment, that said I do hope they go for more traditional controls with the next Star Fox game.
It's funny that you use R&C as an example of sticking to the classic Star Fox style, when the series dabbled in twin-stick rail-shooter controls in the starfighter bits of Tools of Destruction. One stick moved the ship like in Star Fox, the other aimed the guns. It was pretty great.
As is par for the course for the series, though, this didn't stick beyond this game. I love Insomniac and the R&C series, but I do wish they would be a bit more consistent with mechanics from game to game sometimes...
For some reason, this video is my comfort food when I am stressed out
"Target mode" reminds me a lot of "Assistance OFF" in Tom Clancy's HAWX. Except, in that case, I thought it was very well implemented, easy to get used to, and looked better.
This was really informative as I knew nothing of how the gameplay worked in this game. Sad to see it was all to prove a point that... didn't really get proven.
"Nintendo never makes bad games" I often hear people say
+Jeevan Singh No man, but this is Platinum game, it's their fault! This reminds me of the Metroid other M fiasco, in which ppl blamed Team Ninja AND only them, while they forgot that Yoshio Sakamoto itself was in front of the project.
+Jeevan Singh A complicated learning curve doesn't make the game entirely bad, the level design, the ost and the spirit of the original star fox team remain top notch.
Team Ninja do deserve some blame for Other M, as they clearly don't understand what makes a Metroid game play like a Metroid game (flashy, over-the-top finishing moves just don't fit in with the Metroid universe, especially when they are contradictory to Samus' mid-range fighting style). But yeah, Sakamoto deserves the most flak, considering that the story is several degrees more heinous and he did actively hamper the gameplay by requiring the team to only use the Wiimote.
Superfield Yeah, gameplay is garbage but I don't remember too much complaining about it. It's always the old "Team Ninja ruined Samus, she used to be badass and now she is just a drama queen durrr". Now if we talk about Ninja Gaiden, boy they butchered that franchise lol
Best use of the GamePad in actual game software in my experience are Game & Wario's 'Gamer', the bit in The Wonderful 101 where you have to control a Gethjerk ship by letting your squad step on the buttons in the interior view on the GamePad screen, while also fighting off the occasional waves of enemies, and of course Super Mario Maker.
The zoom function that he mentioned reminds of GoldenEye 64. That game was also clunky to control but when auto aim wasn't enough manual aim was always reliable.
I feel like Nintendo made demands that made it impossible for Platinum to do a great job with the gamepad.
jeanschyso but platinum made a great job with the controls. Thing is that no one wanna spend more than 10 minutes learning the controls. I can see the same thing happening with fighting games.
@@Canalbiruta The reason why arcade like games have a leaning curve is because their short.
@@orangeslash1667 yep, like star fox aways did
I feel like I'm the only person who enjoyed this game and wasn't bothered by the controls at all.
3:03 For the record Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction has spaceship segments that allow the player to control the ship with the left analog stick while shooting with the right like an on-rails shooter.
Me in 2016: Wow! A new Star Fox game that actually looks like Star Fox 64! Do I have to buy a WiiU just to play this? (And probably Mario Kart)
Me after seeing the controls: OH. Oh god. Oh no. Welp, back to Star Fox 64.
Should be noted that the minus button does actually flip screens. So it's not required to use both screens when playing. I'm not sure I can say it totally fixes issues with the game though. I do agree that the lack of warnings on both screens as well as the dodgy crosshair in third person mode is a problem.
I don't understand why people ignore that you can press minus to put the gamepad pov in the tv
I thoroughly believe that this game is actually very good at its heart, with the controls being one of the few aspects that just undoes any and all of the great design choices (I feel similarly about the majority of Skyward Sword).
It's a shame that with the controls being such a focus for the development of the game we likely won't see a Switch remaster with more traditional input methods.
I didn't think the game was a total disaster but it obviously could have just been a normal Starfox and would have probably been better. The final stages of Starfox Zero do a good job of "proving" the concept as well as it can.
Honestly, I think a game with both a 1st and 3rd person perspective simultaneously is a cool Idea. I just wish that instead of being imbedded in the mechanics, it was more optional. One mode or another being necessary or more helpful in certain situations, but at all other times, being able to revert back to the style that is more comfortable. Or, if it is embedded in the mechanics, it isn't a frantic action game where you need as much info as you can get as fast as possible before you can even think of reacting.
When I saw all those controlls on the right stick, they looked like they belonged on the d-pad.
Thank you for the nuance.