Controllers Control Everything
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2016
- 🔴 Get bonus content by supporting Game Maker’s Toolkit - gamemakerstoolkit.com/support/ 🔴
Ah, the video game controller. That bulky chunk of plastic - bristling with buttons and sticks and bumpers - allows us to interface with alien worlds, fantasy landscapes, and post-apocalyptic wastelands. But is the design of the traditional console controller limiting the sorts of experiences designers can offer?
Games shown in this episode (in order of appearance):
Gears of War (Epic Games, 2006)
Killzone Shadow Fall (Guerrilla Games, 2013)
Pong (Atari, 1972)
Dig Dug (Namco, 1982)
Robotron: 2084 (Vid Kidz, 1982)
Marble Madness (Atari, 1984)
Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo, 1985)
The Legend of Zelda (Nintendo, 1986)
Smash TV (Williams, 1990)
Ape Escape (SCE Japan Studio, 1999)
Medal of Honor: Underground (DreamWorks Interactive, 2000)
Alien: Resurrection (Argonaut Games, 2000)
Ratchet and Clank (Insomniac, 2016)
DOOM (id Software, 2016)
Offworld Trading Company (Mohawk Games, 2016)
Pikmin (Nintendo, 2001)
Overlord II (Triumph Studios, 2009)
Duke Nukem Forever (Gearbox, 2011)
Trauma Center: Second Opinion (Atlus, 2006)
Surgeon Simulator (Bossa Studios, 2013)
Trauma Center: Under the Knife (Atlus, 2005)
Elite Beat Agents (iNiS, 2006)
Kirby: Canvas Curse (HAL Laboratory, 2005)
Cooking Mama (Office Create, 2006)
Drawn to Life (5th Cell, 2007)
Fruit Ninja (Halfbrick, 2010)
Flight Control Rocket (Firemint, 2012)
Blek (Kunabi Brother, 2012)
Eliss Infinity (Steph Thirion, 2014)
Cut the Rope (ZeptoLab, 2010)
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (Nintendo, 2011)
WarioWare: Smooth Moves (Intelligent Systems, 2006)
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories (Climax Studios, 2009)
Wii Sports (Nintendo, 2006)
Top Spin 3 (PAM Development, 2008)
Dark Souls III (From Software, 2016)
Battlefield 4 (EA DICE, 2013)
Far Cry 4 (Ubisoft Montreal, 2014)
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege (Ubisoft Montreal, 2015)
Call of Duty: Black Ops III (Treyarch, 2015)
Portal (Valve Corporation, 2007)
Hitman: Blood Money (IO Interactive, 2006)
Condemned 2: Bloodshot (Monolith Productions, 2008)
Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare (Sledgehammer Games, 2014)
Downwell (Moppin, 2015)
Metal Gear Rising (PlatinumGames, 2013)
Project Gotham Racing 4 (Bizarre Creations, 2007)
Rayman Legends (Ubisoft Montpellier, 2013)
Life is Strange (Dontnod Entertainment, 2015)
Monument Valley (Ustwo, 2014)
The Room Three (Fireproof Games, 2015)
Giant Cop: Justice Above All (Other Ocean Interactive, 2017)
I Expect You To Die (Schell Games, 2015)
Job Simulator (Owlchemy Labs, 2016)
PlayStation VR Worlds (SIE London Studio, 2016)
Fantastic Contraption (Northway Games, 2016)
Skate 3 (EA Black Box, 2010)
Grow Home (Ubisoft Reflections, 2015)
Fight Night Champion (EA Canada, 2011)
Beautiful Katamari (Namco Bandai Games, 2007)
Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons (Starbreeze Studios, 2013)
Music used in this episode:
Puzzle Pieces (Lee Rosevere)
Inspired (Kevin Macleod)
Let's Start at the Beginning (Lee Rosevere)
Puzzle Pieces (Lee Rosevere)
Inspired (Kevin Macleod)
Lee Rosevere - Music for Podcasts
leerosevere.bandcamp.com/albu...
Kevin Macleod - Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
incompetech.com/
Other credits
Gamespot: "Alien Resurrection Review"
www.gamespot.com/reviews/alien...
Grandma Pwns!: "Baseball! - Grandma Plays Wii Sports!"
• Baseball! - Grandma Pl...
Mike Wilson Tunes: "Baby Works iPad Perfectly. Amazing Must Watch!"
• Video
deprecatedcoder: "RIPmotion: VR running in place locomotion"
• RIPMotion: VR running ...
pulsar2121: "Pong Gameplay"
• Pong Gameplay
Contribute translated subtitles - amara.org/v/C3BF8/ - เกม
“Press square to pay respects” doesn’t quite roll off the tongue
Praise be to the allmighty F
F
F
F
F
“Or whatever the NX pad will look like.”
That was a bit of an unexpected blast of, wow, I forgot how much mystery there was surrounding the Switch before it was announced. Turns out it has a fairly conventional controller, with the most out there thing about it being the IR camera that rarely gets used.
He would lose his shit if he saw the Index and Half Life Alyx back in 2016.
I have some Labo stuff that uses the IR camera that the Switch has.
Jesus christ i might be the next mozart hahahahahahahaha
I wouldn’t call being able to split it into two micro controllers with motion controls particularly conventional, but I see what you mean
@Cubed
What?
@Lebendiges Gespenst
And having games that can function with one controller or two at a a time to give developers more freedom, but the point still stands.
Respect o meter! Cracked me up :-D nothing like some good old coffin slappin to earn the respect of those mourning. Really good video btw :-)
+xisumavoid Xuma! :D
+xisumavoid I see your comments everywhere..
+xisumavoid i think it needs a gif
+xisumavoid I thought it was hilarious too. I thought that the bar was maximizing the player's respect, but I think I like your interpretation better; everyone staring at the player character as he rhymically slaps his friend's coffin like a conga drums, thinking to themselves, "I really respect that guy."
xisumavoid When you find youtuber were you didn't expect to find youtuber.
Aren't Mouse and Keyboard controllers too? I would've liked to hear his thoughts about how the relatively recent trend of giving controller support to all PC titles has changed the way developers approach game mechanics, UI design and narrative choices.
Like how the new Thief needs contextual jumping to work with controllers, or how Fallout 4's dialogue option are always limited/forced to four answers because of the UI. How games very rarely ask players to write anything besides player name, or how multiplayer games have to cope with player bases using various control methods.
Thoughts on accessibility would have been nice as well. How do you design a game keeping in mind multiple controllers, or controllers that may have very restricted input methods.
+Selestrielle everybody knows about that already
+Selestrielle I think he disregarded the keyboard and mouse because most games these days are designed ether with console or tablet in mind.
+Selestrielle Keyboard and Mouse could be seen as a more precise but abstract touch screen for 2D games or a more precise analog stick with infinite speed in 3D games. More buttons are just more buttons; they don't give a new way to play.
+DerStiffler94 Four words: Typing Of The Dead
+DerStiffler94 actually, mouse can hover on an object.
"Arbitrary green button"
Ah, so that's what that A stands for!
B = Bizzarely-not-blue red button
Y = Yileding yellowish button
X = Xenodochial blue button
@@JustJum noice! Here's a tougher challenge: △, □ and ○. (•_•)
@@dside_ru Well, they don't stand for anything, but they do have meanings:
△: Viewpoint?
□: Map
○: Accept
x: Cancel
And yes, for some reason, they swapped x and ○ for all regions outside Japan
@@aionicthunder um... Ok, not going to r/woosh, this was actually interesting. Thanks!
Lmao didn't notice that until you specified 😂
5:10 slaps coffin ''This bad boy can fit so many respect''
GMT: The NX could be used for completely new control schemes
Nintendo: *IMAGINARY SANDWICHES*
Man, the scope of game controllers and abstraction of traditional control methods is something I've been thinking about a lot lately so thank you for this. This perspective is especially interesting given your experience as editor of Pocket Gamer. Your videos always seem to teach me something about things I've been wanting to look into more that particular week. GET OUT OF MY MIND MARK.
When the youtube algorithm actually works
Really glad someone did a video on this topic. I find the controller to be a very fascinating piece of hardware that's even more exciting to explain to someone who don't know, but is interested to learn such as my dad.
0:45 "Atari said f*ck it and gave us a button and a stick"
This is exactly why so many PC genres of yesteryear either went away or regressed. How do you deliver simulators like X-Wing or Mechwarrior with only a couple dozen buttons? Do you really want to expect players to fill in, keep track of and take notes on an in-game map as we did in old dungeon crawlers or in Thief 1 & 2? How many countless shooters were crippled by 2-4 weapon limits and painfully slow moving enemies (or movement speeds in multiplayer)? Elements like commander mode in Battlefield had to go away (or at least become incredibly simplified) to accommodate controllers.
Don't get me wrong, controllers are great for many genres, but the fact that so many devs were forced to accommodate them in order to enter the potentially very profitable console market really hurt some genres.
+DrearierSpider1 R.I.P Quake, UT99, Mechwarrior, ...
+DrearierSpider1 google search "Steel Battalion Controller"
+DrearierSpider1 I would politely disagree when it comes to flight sims (like X-wing) on controller. The dual analog stick design works very well for them, allowing easy control over pitch, yaw, and roll the way a full flight stick. Most functions don't need immediate access and can be setup on multi-button sub-menus, group by kind of operation. If you've ever played Unreal Tournament 1999/2004, Tribes: Ascend, or Smite (the MOBA) you may be famailr with the Voice Guided System (VGS) menu. Where about 3 keys, C, V, B are used to navigate fairly complex contextual menus to access in-game Chat commands. Smite on controller uses the D-Pad for this function. If a similar system was used in a flight sim game you could get a fairly robust set of controls tucked into the single controller.
The decline of of games like Mechwarrior (FASA's financial troubles in the late 90s early 2000s) and flight sims like X-Wing (the steady demise of LucasArts game studio), is more due to them being niche generas often with low player bases and income. This makes large studios unwilling to touch them, and can terminate nascent independent studios who try.
+DrearierSpider1 Interesting points. Especially about Battlefield. However, I'd also argue that Battlefield has benefited from the consoles. A game like Bad Company 2 for example is only as good as it is BECAUSE of the console's limitations. Granted, I'm not necessarily talking about controllers, instead the consoles themselves. But if Bad Company 2 was built for the PC first and foremost(I'm not talking about a port, I'm talking about like Battlefield 2 being built for PC), the game's multiplayer would not nearly be as focused because DICE would never have made the creative decisions they ultimately made for that specific title. Especially the map design. Limitless options that a PC gives would have made BC2 a completely different game and not the game that we view now today as an upper echelon multiplayer shooter. Well, at least I do and many others as well. Not sure about yourself.
I don't want to say that limitations should always be implemented when making games. Far from it. But some of my favorite games have been built for consoles and it's only because the limitations brought out the best in the developers. Regardless of those thoughts, I agree with your points about some of the concessions developers have to make for consoles that can ruin a PC experience. It can be frustrating beyond belief and alienating an entire player base like that to appease a completely different player base is insulting.
+DrearierSpider1 Mmh. I somewhat agree with Brasten here.
A gamepad may in some respects be better suited to flight simulators than keyboard and mouse.
True, a hardcore serious sim like X-plane may have hundreds of mappable functions (even a keyboard struggles to meaningfully map them all), but if you're at all serious about that you use a joystick and rudder pedals at a minimum, and possibly a dedicated throttle control too.
Or, if you're very serious about it, an entire array of custom controls replicating an actual aircraft (or other vehicle).
While the lack of buttons does present problems, the analog sticks on modern controllers are a far closer approximation of a joystick than the alternatives, and flight sim style games (albeit with simplified features to reduce the number of buttons used) actually work quite well on a gamepad.
If anything, that joysticks are now an obscure, very niche accessory hurts PC flight sims and the like considerably more than the lack of buttons on a controller.
If you actually read the manuals for flight sims such as Microsoft Flight simulator, or X-plane, or any of a number of combat simulators going back a long time, they all say to get a joystick.
Even the less realistic sims such as X-wing and Wing commander were strongly encouraging players to get a joystick, showing the inadequacies of the more widespread keyboard and mouse controls.
However, you are of course correct in general that certain games were hampered by the rise in popularity of consoles.
And some genres simply never worked at all, in any meaningful sense.
An RTS barely functions on a gamepad.
(Though it seems as though the pointer on the Wii would be a much closer approximation for the precision of a mouse, which makes me wonder why not a single developer ever tried to release an RTS on the Wii...)
Being forced to accommodate a specific controller can be a problem, as you say. Though being unable to rely on a more optimal controller being present can also cause compromises.
For instance, though gamepads for PC have existed for ages, and nowadays hooking one up is easy (and you can use the same controllers the consoles do), being unable to rely on their presence severely hurt PC platformers.
The games, were out of necessity forced to support playing with a keyboard, which, while workable was never particularly pleasant or optimal.
And undoubtedly the level design had to accommodate this, meaning it affected the design of the game in various ways.
Similarly, those flight sims were clearly designed with the hope players would have a joystick.
But since this wasn't guaranteed, they still had to work if you only had a keyboard and/or mouse (depending on the era).
A very crude way of controlling an aircraft, which makes things a lot harder.
Which would imply either making things easier to make it workable on the much worse controls that result from not having a joystick, or, optimising it for use with a joystick, with the result that the game doesn't play all that well for anyone that doesn't own one.
Or... Making a joystick mandatory, which alienates a large part of your audience on PC where that is an entirely optional peripheral.
Unfortunately, it is difficult to escape the consequences of input devices on game design.
And some genres work best with specific control setups.
Which, depending on the platform either don't exist at all, or are optional meaning only a small subset of players will own it.
On PC you can see the common devices - everyone has a keyboard. And since the mid 90's everyone has had a mouse.
Joysticks were common accessories earlier, but much rarer now. You couldn't count on anyone owning one though, so while many games supported them, they had to consider players not having one and adjust designs accordingly.
Gamepads were rare for a long time, but became more common recently, especially with the ability to trivially use Xbox controllers on PC's... But you still can't rely on a PC gamer having one, and you have to ask what game design benefits from it on PC. (some examples are are fairly obvious though - platformers for one. Super Meat Boy for instance.)
But then you get into the more obscure territory.
Consider the Razer hydra. Until recently, with the controllers being designed alongside VR hardware, the Hydra was one of the best motion controllers around; It outperformed the console options such as the Wii controllers or PS move by quite a margin. - Yet it's theoretical abilities are meaningless, because it's an optional peripheral with very few people owning one. As a result, there are basically no games that make meaningful use of it's abilities.
Nobody will design anything for a controller that obscure. And, for more conventional games for which it wasn't really designed, it's specific strengths are useless, and it simply isn't that good for any conventional gaming experience designed for other controllers (whether traditional gamepads or keyboard and mouse, or joystick or whatever else)
It's very challenging to separate the design of a game from the controllers that work best with that type of game.
As a result you see the dual situation where specific types of games gravitate towards systems with easy access to a controller well suited to that gametype, and systems where the easily accessible input devices have a specific form tend to have games created for them that suit those controller styles...
... Wow that is a lot of text. -_-
Sorry. I feel like I got really lost somewhere along the line writing this...
"A non-violent puzzle game"
"Even though you broke my heart and killed me. And tore me to pieces! And threw every piece into a fire!"
For the good of all of us
Except the ones who are dead
But there's no sense crying
Over every mistake
Animation Quality has jumped miles ahead, I love it.
GMTK: Controllers control everything
GMTK Game Jam 2020: except when they don’t
Awesome job Mark! Great point about the jump from arcades to home consoles, where the controllers needed to become universal, never really thought of it that way. I've talked with friends about the "best controller" and while I never owned one, they agreed that the Gamecube controller was the best. Each button is a different size and color so you don't confuse them, the c-stick became more versatile, and the analog stick had notches in 8 directions for more accuracy. Interesting thoughts :)
Hey snow! Love your videos.
not a great choice. the notched stick is terrible for 360 degree movement (see NiGHTS JoD), the d-pad is terrible (just a piece of plastic cut into a t, luckily the system doesn't have many 2d platformers), the buttons feel pretty cheap, and the shoulders have the oft unused pressure sensitivity (so you can't just tap them, you have to squeeze)
the dualshock 2 is pretty great across the board, with separate buttons for the d-pad, 360 degree sticks, and nice face buttons. i use one for all my pc gaming
the gba sp has great buttons that click when you press them, but NO HEADPHONE JACK?!
My Ideal controller would have:
Six face buttons like the SEGA Saturn
Dualshock 4 style left joystick
right stick replaced by trackball/parabolic optical sensor
SEGA Genesis style d-pad
Bumpers and triggers
Nice to see you on a channel where someone knows what the fuck he's talking about, and isn't a fucking idiot.
I love the GameCube controller and recently I've been playing a lot of games using it with the 8-Bit-Do adapter. Some are amazing! But I've noticed some issues, mainly that the main and C-stick being different sizes is great for when one is for main movement while another for camera movement, but is very disorienting when they're both meant to be used equally, also the 8-way notches are mostly great, but some games could do without. And a second Z button would be nice since many games now rely on double triggers.
how many people work on each video?
the animations are so cool and the information is very well presented
Just one! Thanks :)
you've gotta be kidding me
incredlbie work then wow
look up retroahoy, more longform game documentaries which also has excellent production quality
Errold Tumaque
How has this guy not got more subscribers? One of the few on TH-cam actually saying something different and interesting about video games, and his videos are slickly produced.
Most people don't care what makes games work or what makes them fun. I know, I try to have game design theory conversations with people... it usually doesn't work out.
Robert Headley Sequelitis is still one of the most popular Egiraptor series. I think it's simply a lack of exposure.
Fair enough, which is why I try to share Mark wherever I can.
The difference is that Arin's videos are pretty terrible and severely off-the-mark.
Someone's still mad about Ocarina. :^)
"Playing Brothers on a touch screen is like watching Citizen Kane on Vine."
Couldn't have said it better. It's hard to emphasize just how much controller rumble matters in that game without spoiling it, but I can't imagine playing the game without it.
I wish you've mentioned PS Vita at some point. I really like how gyroscope and accelerometer were used in Uncharted: Golden Abyss and Gravity Rush for example.
its a shame that game developers don't use these very helpful features to the games that made for vita, only few of the actually makes you use it to progress in the game
Yea the vita had so much potential and sony just dropped it.
I still havent forgiven them. The only thing carrying the vita now is the hacking scene
+Rocknoob49 And the indie scene.
James White
yup, thank god there are some people still using them
Maybe it's not the best place, but well, I love you! (also didn't expect that I could find you in this comment section, haha)
I thought you will mention the Steam Controller more, because in my opinion it's probably the most innovative controller in past few years. The amount of precision while still being a controller is amazing.
+Meg.A. Byte We don't yet have (very many?) examples of games made specifically for that controller though.
+Ben Visness I don't think there ever will be. It's more about the user making control schemes specifically for a game. Which is what I love about it. It essentially gives the power of designing the control scheme to the user instead of the developer.
+Ben Visness This, and also I just don't have one to play with. I'm interested to get one now, though.
***** I din't say that, I'm talking about controllers. Game Maker's Toolkit True, and we probably won't have many in near future. But some building slow-paced game can be great. It just needs more time I think.
I doubt any games will ever made specifically for it.
however, having used it since pre-orders almost every day for a few years now, there are games that work better with a steam controller than other games, most particularly being games that need both driving and shooter.
I find it more comfortable than a mouse / keyboard out of my preference to controllers, but more useful than a controller because of its superior software (steam has given access to that software to all controllers by now) and versatility in its grips, soft/hard triggers and pads
This is one of the reasons why I'm so glad that I got into console gaming this year. I've been a gamer since I was a kid, but never played on any console. Just got a Nintendo DS Lite three days ago, and it's the perfect addition to my PS4! My inner child is having so much fun!
The way that the new YDKJ and Jackbox games use your phone and allow for large audiences have completely reinvented the idea of a party game in a very interesting way.
Me: this whas a very fun and good video!
Video: 8:50 or whatever the nintendo nx pad will be
Me: wait *looks when the video whas uploaded*
THIS WHAS FROM 3 YEARS AGO
was*
"NX controller pad" XD
Those ol' days where we had no clue what they'd be bringing out for us.
I laughed my ass off at the Respect-O-Meter... it's like Hip Hop Audience Hero...
No mention of The World Ends With You on the DS section? In my opinion it was the game that best used the touch screen gimmick by using that AND the control pad to control two different characters at the same time.
Really good game.
Aaand now it's coming to switch! :D Really funny to read it
I'm surprised he didn't mention how guitar hero's great control scheme and peripheral mimicks a guitar almost perfectly
I just binged all of these. My friend lead me to "Telling Stories With Systems" and I then punched "Subscribe" as hard as I could. I watched them all, and some of them twice. Outstanding.
Mr. Brown, your analysis of game design is well thought-out, reasonable, informative, and entertaining. I've read lots (waaay too many) comments here on TH-cam, and I've seen several people comparing your stuff to Extra Credits and Every Frame a Painting. Well done. You're practically teaching the master class, keep it up.
Interesting that you didn't take a look at games that use microphones (like some DS games that require you to speak a command or blow into the microphone to manipulate characters). Even the concept of controller expansions like allowing the N64 to get a microphone via the controller or the DS getting a guitar enhancement for Guitar hero
3:48 my nemesis has returned to haunt me
Man, hearing "the nintendo nx" was a bit of a shock
Loved the stepped up presentation on this one! It must have been a significant departure for you, but it really stands out! Excellent work.
+THRILLHO Thanks! I'd never done any vector art before so it was fun to learn how the heck the pen tool works in Photoshop :P
+Game Maker's Toolkit You do all this stuff by yourself? That's amazing, well done.
+Game Maker's Toolkit use illustrator! it's much much simpler and easier to pick up !
+Game Maker's Toolkit You should give Adobe Illustrator a try! The pen tool and shape tools are waaaaay easier to use there.
ok but you're not a meme
I found Alien: Isolation did a good job making opening special doors and pannels feel more natural, by using multple buttons and analog stick input to let you manualy (by the player) manipulate the door. Although they used button prompts and you were pretty restricted in the movement. I felt it enhanced the immersion a lot. Much better than most games where similar tasks have to be performed (mash x to open door).
I've just found this Channel Mr. Brown and I must say that each and every video I've watched so far are insightful and wonderful and would like you to keep it up.
"So, what controllers should we use for our new fitness game?"
Some nintendo employee: so i saw this video about how controllers lim-
Nintendo: A RING!
davie53 pilates are very good exercise.
I'd love yo hear how you feel about the joycon controllers since they seem to marry together vr controllers and classic gamepads, as well as the extra features like HD rumble etc
5:07 "Hold square to pay respects"
hold square for press f memes
absolutely beautiful episode. This channel quickly has grown to one of my favorite channels on TH-cam next to to EveryFrameAPainting, Ahoy and SuperBunnyHop
i had always wondered why back in the early console days devs never tried a custom controller bundled with the game for more complex control setups
I disagree. Some early console games introduced custom exclusive controllers, star raiders and omega race for atari2600 for example.
The world ends with you has my absolute favorite use of the DS. It uses 2 characters, one on each screen with 2 different but connected battle systems using buttons for the top and touch controls on the bottom.
I am slightly confused on why you left out the keyboard and mouse out of the controllers. They basic design have not been changed, but among 'gaming mice and keyboards' they are advertised with extra buttons, to "suit the gamers needs". These multiple buttons, above the 100 or so keys on every keyboard, help with some game genres. So in a way these keyboards also went through a transition to suit the newer types of genres.
+Altylect agreed. I don't have consoles, only emulators and a single generic usb gamepad.
while some games feel more comfortable with a gamepad, shooters, strategy games, point and click adventure games (duh) and others are extremely comfortable with a Keyboard/mouse control.
Altylect the kb&m was never a controller, tell me one part of it that is used specifically for gaming and not for typing/clicking...
+*Harambe* The mouse is actually a form of motion control, it tracks its movement rather than its position. Using the motion of the mouse to alter the position of an on-screen cursor was always an abstract application of its function.
Using the motion of the mouse to control the motion of something in a game is a much more natural application.
In other words: the computer mouse is more suited as a game controller than a pointing device.
The joystick was never a controller. Tell me one part of it that is used specifically for gaming and not for adjusting your elevators/ailerons...
Because they're not actually controllers. They're a mouse and keyboard and were used IN PLACE of controllers because PC gaming had not yet become popular to the same degree as consoles. Now that devs are putting what used to be console exclusives on PC too you see a HUGE surge of controller support.
M&K were never controllers. They weren't designed for that purpose. They were designed for typing and navigation through an OS. Someone just one day discovered they could also be used as a substitute for game controllers.
this channel is fantastic
That Level Again (1 and 2) try to use the phone as the controller in every way. It's a great mobile game.
Hearing the comment about the "NX" controller towards the end, I'm thinking there should be a follow up video to this now that be Switch have been out for a while. It would be interesting to hear your analysis on how it fits in to all of this, and how you think it specifically shapes what games we are getting in that platform.
Man, there is just no one else like you on youtube. Please keep doing what you're doing. As a hobbyist game dev with some technical competence, but a lack of direction, I'm sure your channel is going to help me make some interesting projects. Maybe something will even come of one of them. Thank you so much. Subscribed in an instant.
Wow, this was awesome.
How is this even possible? Usually generic comments from verified people get thousands of likes in hours, but after five years, you still only have eleven.
Edit- It’s because you have empty subs
I knew Brothers had to be here somehow. I just felt it deep down in my heart. Never has a game relied on its control scheme to deliver its message better than Brothers. Still could cry now thinking about it.
I don't get what people like about this game. It's just 2 hours of walking and pressing a trigger with a completely obvious ending.
Rhedox it's not about what you do in reality with those controls but the context of it. If you payed attention while playing you'd understand.
*cough* *cough* Nintendo land did it first *cough* *cough*
I think Totalbiscuit said it was the best game he's EVER played.
Yes he definitely said that. And I deeply understand that kind of sentiment.
Your Game Maker series is fantastic. Very well thought-out, analyzed, non-biased, presented at a good pace, very good to learn from - thank you, and keep up the fantastic work!
that ending made me remember that the switch used to be called the "Nintendo NX"
wild
Enter Keyboard + Mouse = most versatile input devices ever
Only way to make it better is if you could lift the mouse off the table and it continues to work
lisa lavergne Handheld mice have existed for ages:
www.amazon.com/DBPOWER%C2%AE-USB2-0-Wireless-Handheld-Trackball/dp/B009ZM75GG%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduc02-21%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB009ZM75GG
+Xiaopang3333 but are they as good as a desk mouse?
lisa lavergne Well, judging from the many Amazon reviews, they seem to be if they were properly designed.
***** And adventure games and games with isometric or 3rd person view and shooters and fighting games and simulations and musical games and trivias and sports games...so the combo basically covers all genres which is exactly why you basically find all of those on computers.
Is it perfect for every game? No and that's not what I claimed, but it can be used to a much greater effect than any other controller out there which is exactly why it's more versatile.
Loved this one but would have loved some insight on keyboard and mouse!!
+Simon White He talks about it somewhat. 2:29 and 2:42
More complicated games often need KB + M, but platformers don't really need it.
+Simon White When you stop and look at Mouse (one controller) and Keyboard (a different controller) as input methods, those insights should start coming themselves. To get you started take a look a "shooters" on KB&M. Aiming is done using high fidelity tracking of the mouse position, allowing for very fine position control and speed of movement, objectively superior to a thumb operated analog stick. Then look at movement, which is constrained to 4 Arrow keys or WASD. Movement is handled in 4 digital direction states, with no control over degree. You are functionally limited to 8 directions of movement, at a single speed. This is inferior to an analog stick, which not only allows for a full 360 degree range of motion, but also variation in speed along that heading. WASD in this context is an extremely low fidelity emulation of an analog stick.
Other things to consider about the Keyboard is density of button. There are more buttons per centimeter on a keyboard, then on a controller. However that is deceptive for any game that requires WASD for movement. Place your hand on WASD then critically examine your range of finger motion, and what buttons you can realistically access while still keeping "control" over the WASD position. The Keyboard's advantage as a controller for games that don't require analog stick emulation is the availability of button mapping, allowing for many quick tasks without having to setup multi-stage inputs. Although again, if you get a mouse involved you've now limited the speed of access to a single hand, meaning key button mappings should still be clustered fairly close. Very often the whole right side of keyboard goes unused from about H onward.
You can find custom controllers that attempt to bridge the gap by putting an analog thumb-stick next to a modified keypad. You also can find mice that add additional buttons to the sides or top (at the risk of accidental inputs). Each usually cost as much as a standard Dual Analog controller. Although given the price of an Xbox Elite controller, you could likely get both. Sadly most games aren't setup to handle both Analog stick input, Mouse, and Keypad input simultaneously.
Brasten Looks like we found Toolkit's burner account.
Brasten Sure, would have liked it covered in the video is all. -- Something you had me notice when reading your wall of text is that -- you press WASD with 3 long fingers, while you use a stick on a controller with a single thumb. That probably has some effect on movement as well.
It'd be interesting to see a heatmap in a single stick game when using WASD compared with one using an analog stick. Maybe do reaction tests too.
Simon White A mouse and keyboard never was or is a controller, it's a mouse for clicking, and a keyboard for typing. Now, don't get me wrong, they're plenty good, but using a mouse and keyboard is in a way like using a normal car in formula 1. This can really be seen when you step back and realize that in reality, the mouse is the controller, but instead of having all of the buttons on it, the buttons are separate. Having them separate allows for more room, and more inputs, and thus more actions, but again take a step back and ask, "What part of a mouse and keyboard is actually made for gaming?" And when you just list off the inputs, about 100 digital inputs (the keys), three digital bumpers (left right and middle click), and one analog input (the mouse) it actually sounds like the N64 controller with a shitload of buttons added on to it. It could improve drastically if we actually had a dedicated controller for a PC, with stuff like an analog stick, triggers, and a true dPad, among other things, the ultimate controller that would be superior for every single genre would be in our hands, but it will never happen because console gamers want something to be held, and the PC master race wouldn't be able to swallow their pride and admit that the mouse and keyboard is not the definitive gaming controller (and the fact that something would be greater than Steam, thus ushering a civil religious war between the new controller people and Gabe Newman's cult)... And if you don't believe me then you can 1v1 me in a match and I'll have my zoo keeper no scope you from across the habitat...
i love ape escape's unique control scheme, having the face buttons equate to different weapons, the right analog stick being used to use the weapon, and having R1/R2 jump. it's strange, but it works really well and isn't hard to learn at all
That rumble of the dualshock is oddly satisfying
4:44
Turrets: "everything you just said was wrong"
No mention of Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Dance Central, etc and what a missed opportunity.
Folklore deserves a mention because it features the only use of sixaxis I've actually enjoyed: To absorb your enemies' energy after a fight, you whip the controller like bridle reins, and it's just really satisfying and natural to do this sharp, aggressive motion to finish off your opponent.
3:08 Great video, but its called the Wiimote, no exceptions.
I love this channel so much. I was so lucky to find it via youtube's recommendations. Excellent job you guys, I wish that you reach 1M subs (althought I doubt that 1M people care about making games, this knowledge can make you a more discerning gamer).
+RaidenFreeman Extra Credits has around 600,000 subs
Infinity Games they have 888,000 subs, but hey, 599,112,000 isn't that far off...
?
I just came across this channel and the videos I've watched so far remind me of the older Extra Credits videos, except being told from the perspective of particular games. The episodes I've watched so far seem really well thought out and at least in parts have the feeling that you're describing the concepts to me as a person as opposed to broadcasting them to an audience. In fact you seem to vary between giving these descriptions and providing examples in a way that comes off more as a presentation. Either way, without over analyzing too much more than I have... This show is good and I have nothing but good things to say about it. Though the way you say "I'm Mark Brown" feels like the exact tone of voice John Green uses to end all of his videos (which I just find noteworthy more than anything).
5:12 Respect-O-meter! I chuckled.
That’s what I find great about VR- ah shit just as start typing you start talking about it. It just works because you hold a gun, the grip and trigger are in a natural place to work with each other, and you shoot the gun. You want to grab something? Hold the grip button, which is in a natural place to make a gripping motion. You can bring a rifle’s sights to your eyes, naturally, and not look though some artificially centered sight on your tv screen. Want to throw something? Make a throwing motion and release the item at a natural time. It’s just so good and easy to learn. I put a headset on my 5 year old cousin and he was able to do simple things in Job Simulator after a small amount of guiding
*F To Pay Respects*
Glaboogyyy
All your videos are great, but this was a really great one :)
+Raphael Thanks Raphael!
+Raphael I came away thinking the same thing. Fresh, thoughtful, and insightful. Great stuff.
+Game Maker's Toolkit Thank you Mark for making this amazing video! :)
Robot Alchemic Drive is an underrated PS2 Game. You control a giant robot using each analog stick for each hand and the R\L12 for the feet. It has a really unique control scheme. If you ever return to the topic of controllers you should mention it.
I have just recently discovered this channel and this is incredible. I started to watch one, but I couldn't hold it and watched every episode. It is so enthralling. Great channel.
Keyboard+Mouse is the best all-rounder. Most other control methods are clunky for all but one paradigm. The keyboard and mouse are versatile and accurate.
"Clunky" in comparison to a keyboard with 100+ keys that all feel the same? You sure about that one?
@@MrRockyVega games usualy only ever use around 12 to 16 of those keys, unless its something wich straight up requires a ton of buttons.
why do you think keyboards are clunky? :|
@@vulduv Lol you just proved my point, though. The average controller has about 8 buttons if you don't include things like Start and Select. Not only that but their placement is much easier to get familiar with.
Mice are great for things like RTS and aiming with FPS but keyboards have too many keys close together and the most commonly used keys in games are usually right next to each, feel exactly the same and require a lot more practice to get familiar with placements.
If I asked you where the "Y" or "Triangle" buttons were on an Xbox or PS4 controller you'd likely know immediately and be able to describe it's location in comparison to the other buttons easily.
Compare that to describing where "S" or "D" is on a keyboard and it's not so simple. This has an effect on usability for players. Especially if they don't start using a keyboard earlier in life. Most PC gamers are long timers so they're much more familiar with the keyboard and have been able to build upon the basics which make adding even more keys easier over time.
This is one of the main reasons consoles are still winning in sales and popularity. Ease of use not just with the console itself but with the general function of playing a game.
Locoroco on psp. You use the 2 bumpers to tilt the world around
Your videos are amazing, they're so well designed and the pacing is perfect. I loved the vector drawings of the controllers. Really great video.
this is quickly becoming the most interesting/different take videos on gaming in my opinion... keep up the great content and interesting videos!
Not even a mention of mouse and keyboard, as a relatively new PC gamer I still often use a controller for many games and think mouse and keyboard can be clunky for certain types of games but it at least deserved to be mentioned
+RedSeve I only use the controller to gimp my performance when there is a gun involved in 3rd Person games. Triple A-3rd Person games seems to have their hardest difficulty limited to the bad controls of the controllers sadly. Playing Rise of The Tomb Raider on the highest difficulty with Mouse+Keyboard was so easy that I never died in combat, only to falling off stuff (typical - gravity is the worst enemy - lol :P). While I just played Quantum Break on it's hardest difficulty with controller (on PC) and had to replay several fights throughout the game, making it much more enjoyable.
I suppose it is a piece about controllers, and, for all the effectiveness of a mouse and keyboard with certain games, they are peripherals designed first for text input and the navigation of computers. They excel when many buttons are required, or where a one to one pointer is appropriate. They're not designed as game controllers, and so are slightly apart from what this video is about (how development of controllers and games have historically gone hand in hand).
It was mentioned when RTS games came up
+Benjamin Swinbanks
No, it's not. That part was explaining the problem in the context of console games, about how hard genres with sophisticated control schemes are hard to translate to consoles, not directly referencing their PC roots or their keyboard and mouse origins. Hell, the only aspects of PC gaming he references either because have gamepad support or VR.
I still hate dual stick controls in FPS games, mouse & keyboard feel better. And i hate that good d-pads have been replaced with analog sticks since they're much more klunky to use in 2D games... but oh well :(
(for all the people "offended", this is _my_ personal opinion and if you don't agree, you're free to do and use what ever you like while playing games :D)
I feel EXACTLY the same way
I agree, except d-pads haven't really been "replaced"...
Ill respectfully disagree, whilst definitely more accurate, some might say robotic, there's a level of immersion that is achieved given the range of movement such as variable speeds which when recreated on a keyboard are simple binary 'shift to run, alt to walk' binary modifiers.
You cannot have a hope in hell against a player character using a keyboard and mouse when using a controller, but when installing a game like skyrim or even deus ex on PC, I instantly plug in the xbox one controller and play with that. also invert for life.
lastly, dpads have remained on every major controller - but games of more recent 2D side scrollers like ori and the bland forest definately benefit from an analogue layout
Wish more games would let us use a gyro to augment our analog control aiming. It worked well in Splatoon and people using the Steam Controller felt like it was the perfect augment for the touch pads (and I don't get what people rant about when they say they don't like touchpads. They seem to work almost as well as a mouse in nearly every situation I can think of as far as aiming is concerned.)
Mtaalas A mouse and keyboard never was or is a controller, it's a mouse for clicking, and a keyboard for typing. Now, don't get me wrong, they're plenty good, but using a mouse and keyboard is in a way like using a normal car in formula 1. This can really be seen when you step back and realize that in reality, the mouse is the controller, but instead of having all of the buttons on it, the buttons are separate. Having them separate allows for more room, and more inputs, and thus more actions, but again take a step back and ask, "What part of a mouse and keyboard is actually made for gaming?" And when you just list off the inputs, about 100 digital inputs (the keys), three digital bumpers (left right and middle click), and one analog input (the mouse) it actually sounds like the N64 controller with a shitload of buttons added on to it. It could improve drastically if we actually had a dedicated controller for a PC, with stuff like an analog stick, triggers, and a true dPad, among other things, the ultimate controller that would be superior for every single genre would be in our hands, but it will never happen because console gamers want something to be held, and the PC master race wouldn't be able to swallow their pride and admit that the mouse and keyboard is not the definitive gaming controller (and the fact that something would be greater than Steam, thus ushering a civil religious war between the new controller people and Gabe Newman's cult)... And if you don't believe me then you can 1v1 me in a match and I'll have my zoo keeper no scope you from across the habitat...
Affordable Space Adventures is an incredibly unique game designed to utilize almost every single facet of the Wii U gamepad - I cannot recommend it enough.
I love all your videos. But I still believe this is one of the best.
I'd love to hear your take on Wario Ware Twisted which makes you rotate the entire system around the axis facing you, and which has unparalleld haptic feedback in the form of very short "clicks" of vibration that feel like you're genuinely turning something across a threshold with some resistance.
my take: it's rad!
I'm glad we agree :) Hope to hear it mentioned in an upcoming video some time
what video editing software do you use? I love the high quality looking videos.
Thanks! I use Adobe Premiere
Hey maybe someday you could teach/show your viewers how to make your kind of videos. Kind of like a Behind The Scenes Video.
Kabloosh I totally agree. I know it seems arbitrary, because he does breakdown his way of thinking slightly. I'd say do a vlog of a day of you doing you. analyzing and criticism, but form it into a behind the scenes only with us being in the room with you. you'd make a great professor Mark Brown :) keep it up
Arx Fatalis and its magic casting was quite something back in the day. Drawing those runes to cast a spell really made you feel that much closer to being an actual wizard.
Game and Wario still impresses me, it has so many unique ways to use the gamepad to the players advantage. Even the HD remix of Wind Waker helps a player save time and genuinely increases the game play by saving you time and struggle. 1-2 Switch is another fun party game that utilizes the Joycons in a bunch of different ways.
game and wario is an amazing series that really doesn't stay away from out-there ideas. love it so much!
Imagine a time where each game would come with a blueprint of some wacky controller that could be 3D printed.
Could you take a look at VR games? Something like how to tackel problems with movement in a space bigger than you playspace or something like that? It's a hole new aera of gamedesign.
+Léo Sangpur I definitely will when I get my hands on a headset!
+Game Maker's Toolkit I look forward to that episode!
I don't know if you allready tried a vr demo or not but you should definetly look forward to the huge difference in scale! Even playing 2d screen games on a huge curved monitor, gives you a totally different sence of scale then when you play a game on a small screen.
A convention of control I've really come to like is the "phone as controller" multiplayer games, the most popular example being the Jackbox Party Packs. Fibbage and Drawful in particular are great examples of being intuitive, expressive, and inclusive.
+Chris Hallberg a very good example of a game that wouldn't work with a controller - typing and drawing are two things that offer very poor experiences on traditional console controllers. Moving these actions to the phone makes a lot of sense, even disregarding the fact you can create second screen experiences as well.
This reminds me of some unique moments in Hotel Dusk: Room 215 for the DS. There were some pivotal moments where blowing on the microphone or even closing and reopening the handheld pushed the story further or unlocked a new ending. Makes me wish for more DS adventure/visual novel games.
I love Wii, but my favotite games on it - Sin&Punishment 2 and Pandora's Tower - just use motion as PC mouse replacement, most games that try to emulate swings and stuff felt gimmicky even if it worked. Still - pointing the thing at a big screen feels cooler then sitting at a desk with a mouse.
+Ole Gerko Sadly its younger brother the Wii U didn't get the amount of sales that it had hope. But it was a good system on its own.
Sad you didn't mention the key board
Best Platformer Controller Ever!
Mark, you're a legend. I will never stop enjoying this content. Also, props for including Skate. That game controls beautifully.
As for innovative games, Fabulous beasts is certainly an interesting take on manipulating the game world with physical "controls." Splatoon also had the idea of the gyroscope controlling your aim and the right stick giving you a quick 45 degree turn. Some people hated it, but once you learned how to use it, you could move like never before. Those kind of bold decisions might push us toward new solutions to control schemes.
Mark, thanks so SO much for this video. I'm currently making an article about games, mass culture and art, and the discussion that you give in this video is simply amazing for a part of my argument on the logic of production in the industry. You're amazing!
So, what about KB+M?
+Eckhart Was mentioned with real time strategies and how console shooters allow for aim assist. Thing is, a mouse can't really do much more than point at a thing. Now a keyboard can effect game design a load when you consider stuff like QWOP and Typing of the Dead.
+Mellow Gaming The mouse is also really good for navigating UI, things such as System Shock 2's real time inventory management (at least to that complexity) wouldn't work very well on a gamepad.
Eckhart A mouse and keyboard never was or is a controller, it's a mouse for clicking, and a keyboard for typing. Now, don't get me wrong, they're plenty good, but using a mouse and keyboard is in a way like using a normal car in formula 1. This can really be seen when you step back and realize that in reality, the mouse is the controller, but instead of having all of the buttons on it, the buttons are separate. Having them separate allows for more room, and more inputs, and thus more actions, but again take a step back and ask, "What part of a mouse and keyboard is actually made for gaming?" And when you just list off the inputs, about 100 digital inputs (the keys), three digital bumpers (left right and middle click), and one analog input (the mouse) it actually sounds like the N64 controller with a shitload of buttons added on to it. It could improve drastically if we actually had a dedicated controller for a PC, with stuff like an analog stick, triggers, and a true dPad, among other things, the ultimate controller that would be superior for every single genre would be in our hands, but it will never happen because console gamers want something to be held, and the PC master race wouldn't be able to swallow their pride and admit that the mouse and keyboard is not the definitive gaming controller (and the fact that something would be greater than Steam, thus ushering a civil religious war between the new controller people and Gabe Newman's cult)... And if you don't believe me then you can 1v1 me in a match and I'll have my zoo keeper no scope you from across the habitat...
*Harambe* I think one of the best parts about PC gaming is the choice between keyboard & mouse, controller, racing wheel, flight stick, etc.
+*Harambe* The computer mouse is actually a form of motion control, it tracks movement, not position. It's only a historical circumstance that the motion tracking input of the mouse has been used to alter the position of an on-screen cursor.
If anything, the mouse is even better suited as a game controller than a pointing device and as such it is still unmatched!
Wii U game pad is the best controller for different kinds of control methods, but sadly nobody wanted to try something different.
+WeAreMovieMakers the controller can do only as much convincing as a game trailer. Wii U suffered from various other aspects like the hardware being inferior, the console lacking third party support as much as ps or xb, bad online support, the lack of plentiful games and add to that an "overpriced" tag and we have a pretty "different" console.
There's a big difference between innovation and gimmick. Wii is an example of innovation while the wii u is a gimmick.
+Shotgun Gabe I'd say the opposite. Motion controls are an incredibly stupid gimmick.
+Edmund Osborne and looking away from the screen to look at another screen isn't?
I'm sad that not a lot of people like innovation. We say we want it, but when we get it we say "This sucks!"
Your videos are so good man I should really watch more. Keep up the good work!
I really like this video and the graphic design. Keep on the great job
"Controllers control everything"
Mmmm yes, the floor appears to be made out of floor
They don't control the power supply! :D
they don’t control the means of production 😳
I have always been a proponent of new control methods. I cannot understand how people supposedly knowledgable about games think the only two solutions for controls are: "Xbox 360 pad" and "1 to 1 virtual input". There is so much left to be discovered about game's input that we can't be so strictly minded with this stuff. Yes, Wii motion controls were shoehorned into a lot of games, but some like Trauma Center were definitely enhanced by them. Yes, some games that use the right analog stick for actions turned out pretty bad because of terrible cameras, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't experiment.
I really wish the new VR controllers were detached from VR, because VR is going to force people to make first person games in order to make a maximum effort out of their resources. People are going to be ludicrously conservative over the next few years, making first person shooters with gimmicks far worse than the Wiimote waggle. I hope once we get out of that phase we can think beyond the VR set up and realize that it's as much an interface as it is a screen. I want new interfaces to be made so that we can diversify games in actual meaningful ways.
Dead Island did a great thing with controls. Using melee you could just press a button, but in options menu you could switch melee combat mode. In alt mode you would aim at a certain enemy and part of his body with attack button and swing your weapon with right stick. This made cutting off heads with a katana even more satisfying ^-^
One of the most interesting game jams I ever participated in involved using only one form of input. Because of this limitation, we ended up making a prototype of a fast-paced "versus action card game" that felt totally different than anything we'd ever seen before based on the frequency and timing of one input similar to guitar hero or dance-dance revolution.
I'm working in something that replaces mouse input with pen tablet input with tilt sensitivity.
The Pretender what I've always wanted was to ditch the mouse and keyboard which was meant for typing, not gaming, and have the mouse use pressure sensitive left and right clicks like analog triggers, and the keyboard to be replaced with something that lets your four fingers rest on 2-3 rows of keys and your thumb control an analog stick that sticks out the side, and it would be crazy, but for that keyboard replacement to also be able to be moved around like a mouse. Could you imagine the possibilities if we had *three* different analog inputs!
What game is that at 5:25? Looks like some fun.
+jordanzish That's Downwell - it's brill
+Game Maker's Toolkit Oddly enough, like 15 seconds after I posted that comment, I searched Spelunky on Google Play, and Downwell was the first result. So I guess it was fate?
Great video man! Really loving the art and animation. This reminds me a thing I saw on TH-cam called the pain station I think. It's in a museum somewhere, and plays a modified version of pong. It's for two people, and the players have one hand to move the controller, and the other kept on a metal plate thing. While pong works as normal, the "goals" will change colour, with each colour signifying a punishment for losing. One made the plate heat up and burn the player, one made the plate electrocute the player, and the other brought out a tiny whip to whip the players hand. As the game went on, the goal might even split into multiple different colours, meaning the enemy would want to try and target the one that hurts the other player the most as a strategy. Punishment for failure and death has always been a big deal in games, and actually hurting the player is, while obvious and sadistic, pretty cool along with the strategy it brings to the table.
Ha, I've seen also an even more extreme version that punishes by stealing your blood
great shout out to Brothers! That was brilliant and hit the feels with its control scheme
#bring motion controllers to FPS games
You skipped Kinect. It has some interesting games but I find it interesting how it was the first to fully map your whole body as a controller.
Eyetoy - PS2
But yeah, Kinect was the first to see serious success
"Whatever the Nintendo NX pad looks like"
THAT AGED WELL
One version of Snatcher (an adventure game with shooting segments) had lightgun support - but you still played the majority of the game on the regular pad, with the gun plugged into port 2. So when combat happened, you had to literally be quick on the draw to grab the lightgun and shoot whatever was threatening you.