Yeah I have no clue about it I just hit it and hope I kill it before it knocks me into lava or something. It usually works, it’s not exactly hard as long as it doesn’t get you in the lava
I'd say it's fairly fun once you learn to respect the tail. though I do have more hours in dark souls (1) than many gamers, at this point you can derive joy from many such bs. though I agree with a fellow replier that the ones in the sen's fortress tar pit feel more stress-inducing. not the first two, but the ones which are like two times stronger, cannot be plunged onto, & can see each other. it's just the feeling that there's lightning coming at you at all times
Ah good ol' days of being hit through the wall... But no, the one in the Lost Izalith on narrow bridge and the whole TWO demons in the Sen Fortress are way worse.
The “It was never your fault, boys” line about Taurus Demon is something I never knew I needed until today. I always thought I just somehow was really bad at dodging him after all this time.
"I always thought I just somehow was really bad at dodging him" Nah, I always knew the game was kinda bad with mechanics. It's just one of those things you end up coping with cause DS has a genuinely amazing world and you want to see what's in the next room. I genuinely have a love-hate relationship with it. I love its design. A genuine gem. But the second I pick up the controller again, I remember I don't actually want to play it.
@@LacyLilacq I never really had much trouble with him because I never choose (or chose) to directly fight it. I simply jump down from the tower, roll between his legs bait him away from the tower, roll under his legs, sprint, climb tower...jump off the tower it takes me about 4 to 5 minutes...lol Though much later I saw an elden ring player completely annihilate him by simply rolling into his left leg and wailing on his junk...🤷♂
You were always that bad, Taurus demon is one of the most easily beatable bosses 😅 especially that first one, the game gives you nothing but gimme's for him if you run away from him from one end of the bridge to the other he will always do a jumping overhead that you can easily roll under and then run to the jump off point to plunging attack him, my 8 year old does it...
you didn't mention how the titanite demon's jump attack doesn't have any hit protection in between frames either so you can take damage from all of those hitboxes at the same time and die instantly
Started with Dark Souls 1. Literally all of these hitboxes are weird anomalies I encountered years ago and always thought were really strange occurrences. Glad to know I wasn't just imagining it, especially with the Titanite Demon. I always hated those guys.
The only Titanite Demon I love is the one on the shortcut between the Demon Ruins and Lost Isalith. Since it's the only one that respawns, it's the only place to farm Demon Titanite.
@@alexanderstilianov I think the fact it respawns is actually a glitch. At least thats something I heard once, probably from an Illusory Wall video. However as convenient as it is, I've been pushed off the ledges by its tail collision as it turns to face me, and that one has incredibly scaled stats, so it's just as much of a pain!
@Donja-mz6hp I haven't died to his tippy toes although I've definitely been hurt by them plenty. It's that delayed hitbox that appears on his overhead slam that would always get me. So ridiculous.
It’s so funny with Taurus demon on my first play through I got hit by his feet EVERY time he moved. I assume that’s how it’s supposed to work but i didn’t suspect it was that janky.
The Rathian from Monster Hunter World is even more annoying than this. He is not a hard enemy, but you get stuck between his legs and take damage and stunlock when he slowly WALKS.
@hi-i-am-atan I think the intention is to have the player retreat, the hyper aggressive attacking seen in Elden Ring began in bloodborn and isn't very present in Dark Souls 1 & 2. (This can also be observed by how weak blocking became compared to rolling in Dark Souls 3)
The Titanite Demons having obsessive tail hitboxes makes me wonder if you were supposed to be able to cut their tails off to get an item, since every other enemy I can think of with a tail attack can have that tail removed for a reward.
I think I've heard something about how more enemies were supposed to give you tail weapons, but it got canceled in development. Don't quote me on it though. I could easily be misremembering.
You can only gain tail reward from a dragons in this game, literally every dragon here that has a tail, you can cut it off and take a reward, only exception here being the bell gargoyle, which is not dragon, but you can clearly see that their tails is made with an axe on the end. Titanite demon is neither dragon or bell gargoyle, so no reward here, boys.
@@ДаниилЕрошкин-е9эthat doesn't take the centipede demons right arm into account (that also gives a reward the orange charred ring)so while I appreciate the theory I think in this case it's another symptom of the games rushed development
@@SuperZeap The difference is that dragons drop Weapons when you chop their tail off, and the centipede demon drops a Ring that reduces lava damage taken from walking on lava. Dragon weapon drops Deals damage, the orange charred ring reduces damage.
I honestly found the Titanite Demons pretty fun. They are a pretty large departure from pretty much every other enemy in the game, so I see them as kind of a break from the rest of the game. Break as in break my bones... A lot...
I've seen every challenge run, I've watched dozens of randomizers, I drop whatever I'm doing to watch a new Illusory Wall upload. And now my ass is watching a video about the damn frame data. Dark Souls is the forever game baybeeeee, it will never die.
"Dark Souls isn't the problem. Git gud. Stop complaining. It's a masterpiece" Dark Souls: (I'm not hating. I loved the game. But the jank was definitely a disappointment sometimes)
@@AI-ke9ppElden Ring has the best hitboxes of any From game so far. And yes, “get good” always meant stop complaining and find a way to overcome the challenges, even when there’s jank.
@@evilfungas best yeah but there's so many bosses and ofc not all of em are perfect. Get gud is an annoying response to what you think of a boss, even if I've already beaten it and even enjoyed it or was really good at it
@@AI-ke9pp Elden Ring has more rolling I-frames and less "WTF did I just get hit by" This is why Dark Souls 3 will be my favourite Souls game. It is polished, doesn't have the jankiness, and refines alot of the mechanics. I played 3 first so, yeah. Meanwhile Dark Souls' hit boxes look like they forgot how inertia and momentum work.
Speaking as someone who actually nearly got hit by a shard of rock from a sledgehammer impact... that stuff is FAST. Like "shot off into the distance and broke a twig off a tree 20 feet away" fast. And embedded into the tree. It's basically shrapnel. It wouldn't be nearly that delayed. Also it has no real visual indicators anyways which is bad design if it is supposed to be flying debris.
@@tlozfreak888 there are visual indicators tho? a big dust cloud, little rocks etc. Is it delayed too much? Maybe. But I guess they were going for a bit of anime effect where delayed stuff like this is common.
Some are even jankier. Like Gaping Dragon has a broken grab hitbox when he is just shouting. You can get grabbed despite him not even moving his arm: th-cam.com/video/f5LzEBnA294/w-d-xo.htmlsi=y5P-BZeRkSCIdHCW
You should also check for older Monster Hunter games hitboxes because I swear to god I dodged this tankass plesioth shoulder strike but it always send me right back to the camp anyway 😂
I've only played MHW/Iceborne but I really find a lot of the monsters to have off-the-charts levels of BS hitboxes. I can't count the amount of times I've taken dmg from a monster "biting" the air in front of his face while I'm standing 2 meters away from the back of his tail.
@@bunklypeppzbelieve me when I say that they did an INCREDIBLE work with W/I because man these where not hit-boxes back then : there where building-boxes
I have done a few runs in DS1 and definitely can agree DS1 has some janky hit boxes lol. Surprisingly Quelaag has some pretty bad hitboxes and 100% Kalameet does, but for 2011 game not too bad
9:54 this part is incorrect. All roll type has 11 s except for ninja flips which has 13. Fat-rolling has 11 s and 35~37 recovery frames. During the recovery frames, 25 of them are instability frames. If you get hit during instab frames you take 40% extra damage. Mid rolling has 20~22 recovery frames with 14 of them being instab frames. Fast roll only has 10 recovery frames and 7 instab frames. Ninja flip has 6~10 recovery frames and no instab frames. This is why light rolls are better for new players to learn the game. The 40% extra dmg kills many players more than most people imagine. Armor is good for sure, but no amount of armor is as effective at keeping you alive as leveling vitality to 30/50 with good poise, endurance, and roll speed.
Honestly would love for you to just continue this with the rest of the Dark Souls Trilogy! There's a bunch of questionable hitboxes throughout the games that made me scratch my head.
Holy hell, Titanite Demon's tail being the actual weapon makes so much sense. I never fought those guys head on because I could never understand how to avoid damage. The more you know.
I absolutely adore your commentary ! Thank you infinitely for some closure on these janky attacks! I will be approaching specifically titanite demons very very differently from now on !
@@GilbertTheGilbertGuy Playing it right now, just fought the pursuer. That sword grab attack might be the worst hitbox I've ever seen in these fromsoft games. Other than that I've not really noticed anything though to be fair (aside from the trio sentinels in lost bastille, some of their attacks reach longer than they should).
@@JustapErson The hitbox is fine it's just the animation. Every grab in the series has this issue. It hit your legs or arms and teleported you. Watch Domo3000s videos on the hitboxes.
To me, the missing hitbox of the Smough charge attack does make sense. It's the moment where his charge ends and the hammer swing becomes the main threat. Of course I never knew that he had no hitboxes at all, but I always tried to time my dodge around that transiton.
I've encountered a weird issue with that charge where I've sometimes gotten hit well after the animation ended and I was still a decent distance away from smough. I know I'm not the only one cause i've seen online footage of it and a couple friends have also mentioned it. No idea what causes it, but smough is just cursed.
I think a 'original' mode and a 'remastered' which DOES fix those would have been the best option, but if they had to choose between fixing it or not? Leave it as it was.
One of the worst hitboxes in any game I have ever played is the Dancer in Dark Souls 3...More specifically the grab. Dark Souls 3 in general has some trrrrrash hitboxes, but that's the most hilarious one. Imagine driving down the road and suddenly getting into a car accident, because a car was on the same road as you 10 minutes ago, but isn't there anymore. That's what it feels like.
Man nobody talks about how giant the hitboxes in ds3 are. They are way bigger than the weapon creating them, where’s leon Kennedy when we need another el gigante dealt with.
Agreed DS3 is by far the worst game in the series, it really expose the fraud Miyazaki is if Tanimura isn't helping. Miyazaki did a VR game that was an absolute flop, love of the worst VR games created
Ive just finished my first clear of Dark Souls and of all the videos telling me what game I just played, this one is the most validating. That moment you show the titanite demon jump attack i had flashbacks to the basement of Sens Fortress
I've never understood why people apply a special standard to DS2 and complain about its frames and hitboxes only when DS1 was blatantly egregious on these exact fronts, from start to finish. It's noticeable right from Undead Burg, and I accepted this as baked into what a Souls game is, and fell in love with it. I do have complaints about DS2, but those are about things that deviate from its predecessor, not the things that reiterate on its core traits lol
I think the main argument people have against DS2 is how inconsistent it is not only hitbox wise, but also with how Agility affects dodge rolling in DS2, and therefore your IV frames. In my own opinion, while yes, DS1 is jank as hell with regards to hitboxes, DS2’s inclusion of the Adaptability & Agility affecting your IV frames is what gave it such a notorious reputation for having god-awful hitreg. So while no, DS2 doesn’t have the same hitbox issues as it’s predecessor, it instead has a inherently poorly designed system for dictating how effective any given player’s rolls are at dodging an enemy’s attack, which (in my opinion at least) is leagues worse than some janky hitboxes.
Why is having a stat that makes things easier for you if you have trouble with dodging worse than not having the stat? My problem with ADP is indeed that I think easy mode-ish options like this undermine the sorts of experiences souls games are designed to offer (similar issue with the Master Key, and magic in the early games). But for people whose complaint is that they have trouble getting around the awkward hitboxes, shouldn't they be glad that in DS2 they now can purchase the extra leniency they need, while in DS1 and Demon's they just had to deal with it? Furthermore, while the hitboxes in DS2 are sometimes strange and nonsensical, they work with total consistency, such that you can learn the moveset of any boss or enemy, and then dodge it with 100% reliability with your ADP at the minimum, default stat level. Once you have a bit of a feel for the game's quirks, you can even predict what the hitboxes are probably like for attacks you haven't seen before, and be right about it 9 times out of 10. It's easy for me to say this, since I have never added any points to ADP on any of my characters. It's also not like players are entitled to i-frames at all, in the first place. Having them is a privilege. By all rights, we should be hit by any and every attack that we don't actually physically clear out of the way of. I-framing through things is basically an exploit. Is it bad design if a game isn't especially generous with how easy-to-use one of its exploits is?? Seems like a crazily spoiled mindset to me, to actually fix one's mouth to complain about that lol
A lot of it has to do with it visually, low adp/agility and the way ds2 registers attacks (it registers properly when you get it but finishes the animation of the roll THEN triggers the animation of the grab). Also a long time ago we had no access to ds2’s debug because it runs on a different engine than ds1 or ds3, so people really would just go off of their experience rather than actual game data. I actually like ADP it plays an interesting factor in builds in pvp making more tank builds have less i frames but they can trade that off for more health, equip load to wear heavier armour or more stamina to be able to block or attack more with heavier weapons, I just wish they did a better job explaining it and stressing how important of a mechanic it is. From soft loves not explaining pertinent mechanics or stats well in their games and go with the vague “figure it out” approach which can lead to a lot of unnecessary confusion.
@@dauntethomas5594 That issue of having grabs teleport you is something that all three Dark Souls games + Bloodborne have. It happened to me against Pursuer and Sir Alonne, sure, but also happens easily against Gaping Dragon and Gwyn. Lady Maria did it to me once or twice. DS3's mimics have done it to me multiple times. Arguably Elden Ring's Mesmer does it. And the most blatant, egregious and frequent cases of it I've ever seen or experienced were by the Dancer of Boreal Valley, who is able to warp you into her hand while you're standing behind her ass. So, it's again an unfairly targeted criticism of DS2 to me. I showed up in DS2 already being used to wonky grabbing nonsense from DS1, and then moved on to DS3 and continued to experience it a bunch more times on my first playthrough there. Yeah, the DS2 cyclops case looks sillier than usual. So what? You still mistimed the dodge, lol. It's cool that you do get some enjoyment out of ADP, but its hard for me to concede that its an "important" mechanic. At least for PvE (my PvP experience is limited), DS2 is TOTALLY doable with no points on ADP. It's not even like a crazy challenge run thing. It's just...reasonable. These games heavily emphasized precise timing and placement in the first place, and all of them have significant jank. Then, DS2 with low ADP is...precise dodging with some significant jank. Nothing that should be a surprise or vexing hurdle for a From fan, imo, lol If it's someone's first From game, yeah, that's completely different haha
@@philosophyofiron9686 It is a thing in all the games yes I agree, it registers the same way in the other games. It’s simply that in ds2 you can have way LESS i frames so there are few cases where it will look more egregious in the other games. Trust me buddy I understand your frustration, I went from ds3 to ds2 and fell in love with it and actually wish they took a lot more from that game and implemented it in 3, yet when I went online (this was ab 6 years ago) the discourse was terrible towards ds2 with so much just straight up false information or people taking examples of poor implementation or design and saying the whole game was trash because of it despite each game having potentially make or break flaws. Just take it in stride and refute bs with evidence, every game can have criticism but at the end of the day theres lots to love about this game and the other souls games despite their flaws, don’t let people ruin it or make it a negative experience for you :). Also with ADP I agree, shields are great in this game and I learned to parry and use shields effectively and actually got really good at dodging and strafing attacks because of low ADP my first play through, still should have been made more clear as to what it does and how many s increase with the levels. Would save people a lot of headache and make it overall a smoother experience for most, I’m one of the exceptions where I still greatly enjoyed the game without understanding it and it made me dive more into all the really well implemented and fun mechanics after going online.
I dont take the dash from Smough as jank. In my more than 1000hs just playing the game, numerous times I got hit by the initial dash and, depending in your poise, that small window to roll saved me from death. Its kinda weird when you face him 1v1, but in the initial phase is a nice little help from the devs in my opinion
i think of it more like the fact that he's pulling back the weapon makes it not a threat at that point in the attack it's like the reversal of the velocity takes all of its power away, before he follows up with the upward swing
@@pretentiosaurus Yeah these seem very vaguely physics based. Like there should be points at the beginning or end of any attack where the "velocity" is not high enough to cause damage, so the hitboxes show slightly before/after the halfway point of the swin where the velocity would be closest to its maximum.
DS2 is surprisingly not the worst about it, the biggest issues are the variable i-frames on rolls and how the grabs are handled - it doesn't correctly interrupt roll animations when you're hit by a grab attack outside of your i-frames window, which results in the "snapback" (you seemingly roll away and get suddenly yanked back into a grab) effect on some enemies.
Randomly had this video suggested to me from the algorithm. I love the dark souls games but I don't play them because I suck lol. I find hit boxes and the technical side of games fascinating to see and understand. Would love to see more of this!
What do you even use to do this?!?! I’ve been looking for something like this for a bit now. Would love to see more on DS1 and the other Dark Souls games!
@@aa-io1pc Dark Souls was actually really easy, you can just bring the anim files right into the software. Other games like Elden Ring are a lot tougher to crack though because you have to disable anti-cheat and unpack the entire game - or so I've read.
Install Dark Souls Animation studio, for BB, DS1 and DeS use the unpacked game option. For DS3, Sekiro, ER and AC:6 use the packed game option, you don't need to unpack the game I don't really understand why other people are mentioning it. Alternatively if you just wanted to see the hitboxes in game you can install CE and the grand archives table has a debug menu tab where you can turn on hitboxes and other attack data. For DS2 you need to install Debug Manager by Radai, which is still a pretty new tool and isn't well known.
what i like about titanite demon is that it counters the norm in terms of what you would expect from the animations, but it's consistent in of itself, which makes me think it uses the staff more as a distraction and really attacks with its tail
I kinda would like it if it was a different ennemy design, like a sorcerer with a magic sword and the sword doesn't damage you but then there's a visible aftereffect slash that cuts you, so you get tricked by it but you understand what happened. I think with the way the titanite demon is designed, even after it happens to you you don't really understand what happened because the attack animations don't really suggest the danger was the tail even after you got hit. Another alternative would be to have the hitbox on the staff but a couple of attack with a fakeout swing and a tail grab attack, that would have sold the idea better. Or just being able to cut the tail would have been fine maybe?
hey man i just found your channel and i wanted to say good job. i really like this type of content and you have good vibes. keep it up bro til ur in million subs club.
@@TimothyGodto be fair this is one of the few hit boxes I’d praise DS1 for as I don’t think it makes sense to just roll spam your way through explosions. I think these should be blocked by your weapon or shield.
@@lukefitton7329 i slightly disagree, only cause when rolling you can visually see the explosions done, but you'll still get hit by the AOE. It looks like you can roll through, but you can't. Which makes the fights against them, stay by their rear and they can't do anything
Loved the breakdown! I tend to play a fusion of caster/melee so I end up being pretty far away from the bosses most of the time but I've def felt the pain of the Titanite Demons. Keep up the great work!
My game theory is that the reason they give feet hitboxes sometimes was a work around to prevent something breaking, like making sure the foot didn’t clip into the ground or bug out the boss’ model or something. But that’s just my throw-it-at-the-wall guess.
I believe they're technically hurtboxes, but no, that's unrelated in most of these cases. The only place where it might be relevant is in Gaping Dragon's fight, where the pillars are destructible, I suspect that it's how the game knows when to cause some of those to collapse.
Manus was a menace. That 5 hit combo is atrocious- especially the 2nd attack, where you could be standing behind him and he still will get you and ragdoll you to high heavens. And that awful orb attack which covers the entire arena and converged to Manus- hitting you in the process. I still haven't figure out how to dodge that attack.
I always knew that ds1 hitboxes were the worst. DS2 gets a lot of hate but ds1 was just as bad with hitboxes if not more so. Thankfully from 900+ hours of experience with Elden Ring, I felt like 90% of me getting hit was actually my fault.
90% of this video is covering hitboxes that are inconsistent or missing, or hitboxes that deal nearly no damage. What people complain about when it comes to the hitboxes in ds2 comes mostly fro hitboxes that deal good damage, interrupt your actions, and are just too dang large.
@@jankbunky4279 I didn't have nearly as many problems with it as with ds1 hitboxes. I literally got hit by nothing, and the other time I saw a video where the player hit the air and it damaged the boss.
@@jankbunky4279ds2 s hitboxes werent that bad it is mostly adp. Since you get caught mid roll but only receive damage after the roll ends. Not saying adp is a good thing.
At least ds1 didn’t tp you into grabs all the time, although that’s likely more of an adp issue, since the attack tends to only go through after finishing your roll.
@@chgjake2230 Honestly that only happened to me once, and don't get me wrong, it was pretty frustrating but it was not as frustrating as the incorrect hitboxes of ds1 (which there were a lot of).
This offer a wealth of perspective into game design and what amount of thought needs to go into every little hitbox for players to feel like it's fair. Excellent video
I can see that, he has an intriguing design but fighting him isn't fun, I'd rather just read his wiki page. I'm not going back to the room full of them in sens fortress
The camera has been consistently bad ever since Demon Souls, it always felt way too close for big bosses, and nowadays that even the bi bosses are quite fast, the camera just can not keep up. On other note, I curious about Dark Souls 2 framedata. I know that ADP is THE CAUSE of many frustrations in that game, but if I recall correctly, the hitboxes in DS2 were awful
I would blame Adaptability for the bad hitboxes. And Im gonna explain why. DS2 has overall, except with Some exception, very clean hitboxes, specially, which is not most Souls can't say, grabs. A problem is the I-frames. When you have low I-frames, you can be hit on places that at first you wouldn't think you might be affected specially if you come from any Souls before and after, such as the foot. You can blame this to the lack of I-frames. But thats is not the main problem. That main problem is that on case or a grab, the player completely waits for the roll animation to end on these situations, on that moment is when you are affected by the attack. Which leads on the Boss having an attack/grab, roll completely and seemingly succesfully out the grab, and then be teleported once the roll animation ends. Thats so jank that gived the illusion as extremely inflated hitboxes for so many years.
they actually zoomed the camera out for the living failures fight in bloodborne and it worked pretty good. idk why they didnt keep using that feature for large bosses in future games
I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree on that, DS2 hitboxes are generally crazy with or without ADP; lacking ADP makes individual rolls feel unsatisfying, bad hitboxes make the whole enemy feel sloppy because the visuals are misleading and positioning is also invalidated. The worst are grabs, always, but there are so many bosses and enemies with other absolutely wack hitboxes and/or animations that start too soon, end too late or reach too far I really can’t agree. My personal favorite has to be the giants in the Gutter that slowly slam the ground in front of them as you run way behind them, yet your character standing 25 feet directly behind their backs gets pancaked.
The bit about the Taurus demon is kinda funny; apparently the many players who quit DS1 over janky bosses and terrible level design 2 hours in have a point.
@@the_seer_0421 The boss runbacks in the undead burg are problematic at best. It's what a huge number of players who didn't finish DS1 criticized and the early game is even super wonky with this - in the Asylum you respawn right next to the fog gate (setting expectations), Taurus and Capra demon runbacks are a damn slog. This is on the intended path. And it really doesn't get much better either for most of the game. It would be fine if it was an occasional thing on optional bosses I'd think, weaving in with the "teach the player persistence" theme, but as a default on the critical path it's just not good. FromSoft has understood this over the years, to the point of adding the Stakes of Marika and Graces right next to the fog gates of Remembrance bosses. Boss runbacks aren't the "fun" part. People put up with them because the combat and progression loop is really good.
@@Chris-lc3wi well, fair but that has more to do with respawn points rather then the level design itself. Though it never really bothered me aside from the bed of chaos run back. That was the only one I found genuinely annoying.
@@Chris-lc3wiwhen I think of poor run backs I think of Bed Of Chaos or Sir Alonne, I could see how the run back to Taurus or Capra can frustrate new players but I think Undead Burg was well balanced enough that you can easily manage your Estus from the Bonfire to the Boss and it only makes beating the boss even more satisfying. DS1 gives you a very generous amount of flasks so fighting Taurus with no run back and 10 flasks would be a cake walk.
@@DavidRodriguez-ok1cn data miners that have shown the hitboxes have actually proved that DS2 hitboxes are the closest to the actual models shown. DS2 just has the least amount of s unless you level ADP for agility, and that the grab attack grab animation isn't polished/finished so if your character is rolling, they will finish the rolling animation, then snap into the grab so it just looks jank.
I always thought about this issue especially with the Taurus Demon! I am very happy that I was actually right with my assumption! 😅 I mean we really should be compensated by FromSoft for making us struggle so much to "git gud" whilst actually we just had to figure out the jankiness of their games! 😢
YES, A lot of the jank in DS1 was done on purpose and it shows, and may i also add, when you get knocked in Iron Golum and Bed Of Chaos arenas, you are programmed to slide to the nearest edge, i played this game so many times and there is no way that sliding is caused by the physics engine, it's definitely done on purpose
The hardest bosses are mostly fair. O&S, Artorias and Manus are OK hitbox-wise. I hate how Kalameet's neck carries your character until your s run out, but other then that it's fine. Only hard boss to be janky is Bed of Chaos.
Honestly for me I just hate the geometry in some levels lol I will slip off of shit all the time that looks like I should be able to stand on at least 10 times a playthrough, so I would include this as well
@@Laezar1 Yea but when each death means running through a significant chunk of lost izalith... Whoever came up with stakes of marika deserves a pay raise.
2:17 If you had toe pain, this would deal damage for 80% of your health bar. If you didn't have toe pain, this would grant you toe pain. New status effect! Remember that if the player's feet are caught below the giant's feet, uh, yea, you're lucky you can just walk away from it, because there would be no escape otherwise.
I'm not great at either of these games. Quite bad actually. But I found DS2 to be much easier. Don't know if bosses have less health, if there's less movement jank, if hitboxes are better than people give them credit for, if their movesets are more forgiving. I can't say I know why, but I've had a much easier time dealing with bosses overall. Even beat some of them on my first try. And I'm sure others had the same experience. The downside of this is: you spend less time with any one particular boss, making them less memorable. I could probably list most DS1 bosses from memory. I can barely remember any DS2 ones, and a good number don't even feel like boses, just stronger enemies, like Dark Knights were in DS1. This is probably one of the big reasons DS2 just isn't as satisfying to people.
Cause ds2 had it worse and it being after years of development. As you remember the ds1 was rushed in its production. But ds2 for what it’s worth should’ve been way better with hit boxes
You missed a fun one with Gaping Dragon: during it's charge attack, the first hitbox on its front right foot is actually a grab check, so if you stand on it you're instantly grabbed.
And yet people solemnly swear ds2 has more jank despite empirical evidence supporting the contrary. It really shows the double standard and blatant misinformation people come up with in an attempt to shit on ds2.
@@Ev74977Facts bro and it’s not even excusable now, years ago you legit could not find actual hitbox data on ds2 because it uses a different engine and they didn’t have access to the debug, now its pretty much definitive and idiots will still spout the same notion without difinitive proof.
It’s mostly because of how egregious some of the grab animations are. You are actually getting hit, but the way you teleport onto the sword of the pursuer or sir allone makes it look like a hitbox issue.
9:20 hitbox longer than s just means that s is not the answer to all problems. another way to avoid damage is right positioning/movement. I find it more fun when it actually matters Where you roll, not only When you roll.
This man opened DS Animation studio checked animations and their frames but still says that the heavy roll has 9 i frames when the program clearly shows all rolls have the same I frames. How do you fuck up that bad.
I've intuit some of these for myself but to see them with the debug/animation data is really wild, especially to see just how much bigger some of the attacks are versus their view models, I wonder if several developers at fromsoft are responsible for different fights and that's why these feel so inconsistent throughout the game? good video!
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What game should I “pop the hood off” next?
One mistake you committed is that Fast, Medium and Heavy roll all have 11 frames
@@Samura1313I haven’t seen that actually. I’ve seen different #s for all of them but 1st I’ve heard of all 3 rolls having the same s
every single game
Monster Hunter World?
please do Bloodborne's undead giant's jump and kick attack
I have defeated centipede demon hundreds of times, and to this day, I still couldn't tell you how to fight him.
My FromSoft nemesis, I fucking hate the Centipede Demon lmao.
"Just keep hitting it I guess, I'm not dead yet"
You're supposed to ignore it and parkour to a bigger arena to properly fight it.
Yeah I have no clue about it I just hit it and hope I kill it before it knocks me into lava or something. It usually works, it’s not exactly hard as long as it doesn’t get you in the lava
Legit killed it no-hit the first time i fought it and have no fucking clue how, and im 100% willing to bet i could never replicate it
Fighting the Titanite Demon in that tiny little room in Anor Londo has to be one of the worst things in any souls game lol
Say it with me:
Thank Seath for Sorceries!
Thank Quelaana for Pyromancies!
Thank the Lords for Miracles!
The ones in sens fortress were so much worse for me.
I'd say it's fairly fun once you learn to respect the tail. though I do have more hours in dark souls (1) than many gamers, at this point you can derive joy from many such bs. though I agree with a fellow replier that the ones in the sen's fortress tar pit feel more stress-inducing. not the first two, but the ones which are like two times stronger, cannot be plunged onto, & can see each other. it's just the feeling that there's lightning coming at you at all times
Ah good ol' days of being hit through the wall...
But no, the one in the Lost Izalith on narrow bridge and the whole TWO demons in the Sen Fortress are way worse.
How about the blighted tree spirits in elden ring taking up the entire room and having diving and digging attacks 💀 basically the same
The “It was never your fault, boys” line about Taurus Demon is something I never knew I needed until today. I always thought I just somehow was really bad at dodging him after all this time.
HONESTLY it's embarrassing when you've beaten it and get stuck awhile at Taurus, now I know I'm justified
"I always thought I just somehow was really bad at dodging him" Nah, I always knew the game was kinda bad with mechanics. It's just one of those things you end up coping with cause DS has a genuinely amazing world and you want to see what's in the next room. I genuinely have a love-hate relationship with it. I love its design. A genuine gem. But the second I pick up the controller again, I remember I don't actually want to play it.
@@LacyLilacq I never really had much trouble with him because I never choose (or chose) to directly fight it. I simply jump down from the tower, roll between his legs bait him away from the tower, roll under his legs, sprint, climb tower...jump off the tower it takes me about 4 to 5 minutes...lol
Though much later I saw an elden ring player completely annihilate him by simply rolling into his left leg and wailing on his junk...🤷♂
You were always that bad, Taurus demon is one of the most easily beatable bosses 😅 especially that first one, the game gives you nothing but gimme's for him if you run away from him from one end of the bridge to the other he will always do a jumping overhead that you can easily roll under and then run to the jump off point to plunging attack him, my 8 year old does it...
@@bane426he still had ass hitboxes tho that were unfair at times
Also i thought I'm the only one who is playing dark souls 1 in 2024😂😂😂
you didn't mention how the titanite demon's jump attack doesn't have any hit protection in between frames either so you can take damage from all of those hitboxes at the same time and die instantly
...Oh. So thats what happens lol
Like the Elden Ring pre patch bleed dog 😨
This explains so much 😅
oh god the ones in the slowy substance below the snake people spam the jump attack so much too, I feel vindicated
Think its possible to be caught twice in the same attack too with those thic frames
Started with Dark Souls 1. Literally all of these hitboxes are weird anomalies I encountered years ago and always thought were really strange occurrences. Glad to know I wasn't just imagining it, especially with the Titanite Demon. I always hated those guys.
The only Titanite Demon I love is the one on the shortcut between the Demon Ruins and Lost Isalith. Since it's the only one that respawns, it's the only place to farm Demon Titanite.
@@alexanderstilianov I think the fact it respawns is actually a glitch. At least thats something I heard once, probably from an Illusory Wall video.
However as convenient as it is, I've been pushed off the ledges by its tail collision as it turns to face me, and that one has incredibly scaled stats, so it's just as much of a pain!
@Donja-mz6hp I haven't died to his tippy toes although I've definitely been hurt by them plenty. It's that delayed hitbox that appears on his overhead slam that would always get me. So ridiculous.
@@maxtiis2352 you are right it is a glitch
@@maxtiis2352"If you have enough stamina, you can block Titanite Demon attacks, except for the grab attack."
It’s so funny with Taurus demon on my first play through I got hit by his feet EVERY time he moved. I assume that’s how it’s supposed to work but i didn’t suspect it was that janky.
Took me 10 mins trying ro figure out the trick, but nah, sometimes it does hurt, sometimes it don’t lol
The Rathian from Monster Hunter World is even more annoying than this. He is not a hard enemy, but you get stuck between his legs and take damage and stunlock when he slowly WALKS.
Gotta respect that the point of the video is clearly to be informative and entertaining, rather than to "expose" a game.
For me, it’s a “Oh I can’t stay mad at YOU!” kind of thing with Dark Souls
That's because we all already knew that a lot of dark souls hitboxes are jank. The question really is just how much
"expose" them on what? Having janky hitboxes? I thought that was common knowledge
that’s because it’s not dark souls 2, come on are you new to the souls community?
Dark souls 2 TH-camrs will do the same thing but instead of saying it's a cool insight on an old game they go "see? Worst souls 2"
dark souls really put a " i saw you rolled,but i dont care , give me your soul" on us XD
Cause you can't time your dodge right git gud
@@igson-in4rd so what's the timing on a meaty that has twice the active frames as your roll's s
@hi-i-am-atan I think the intention is to have the player retreat, the hyper aggressive attacking seen in Elden Ring began in bloodborn and isn't very present in Dark Souls 1 & 2. (This can also be observed by how weak blocking became compared to rolling in Dark Souls 3)
@@azrielsatan8693 i don't think that counts as timing your dodge, per se
The Titanite Demons having obsessive tail hitboxes makes me wonder if you were supposed to be able to cut their tails off to get an item, since every other enemy I can think of with a tail attack can have that tail removed for a reward.
I think I've heard something about how more enemies were supposed to give you tail weapons, but it got canceled in development. Don't quote me on it though. I could easily be misremembering.
You can only gain tail reward from a dragons in this game, literally every dragon here that has a tail, you can cut it off and take a reward, only exception here being the bell gargoyle, which is not dragon, but you can clearly see that their tails is made with an axe on the end. Titanite demon is neither dragon or bell gargoyle, so no reward here, boys.
@@ДаниилЕрошкин-е9эthat doesn't take the centipede demons right arm into account (that also gives a reward the orange charred ring)so while I appreciate the theory I think in this case it's another symptom of the games rushed development
@@SuperZeap The difference is that dragons drop Weapons when you chop their tail off, and the centipede demon drops a Ring that reduces lava damage taken from walking on lava.
Dragon weapon drops Deals damage, the orange charred ring reduces damage.
@@Wicked_Knight I mean kalameet? That's also a ring and while it does deal damage it's to you
Oh damn, they did Titanite Demon completely dirty, a shame because the moveset seems kind of fun, the jank buried him 3 feet below ground.
I honestly found the Titanite Demons pretty fun. They are a pretty large departure from pretty much every other enemy in the game, so I see them as kind of a break from the rest of the game. Break as in break my bones... A lot...
I'm never 100% sure i can kill those fuckers, that one tail hitbox killed me more than that damn pole
I've seen every challenge run, I've watched dozens of randomizers, I drop whatever I'm doing to watch a new Illusory Wall upload. And now my ass is watching a video about the damn frame data. Dark Souls is the forever game baybeeeee, it will never die.
"Dark Souls isn't the problem. Git gud. Stop complaining. It's a masterpiece"
Dark Souls:
(I'm not hating. I loved the game. But the jank was definitely a disappointment sometimes)
Even elden ring is guilty. I miss when the jank was a meme, not SMTH to be justified
@@AI-ke9ppElden Ring has the best hitboxes of any From game so far.
And yes, “get good” always meant stop complaining and find a way to overcome the challenges, even when there’s jank.
@@evilfungas best yeah but there's so many bosses and ofc not all of em are perfect. Get gud is an annoying response to what you think of a boss, even if I've already beaten it and even enjoyed it or was really good at it
@@AI-ke9pp Elden Ring has more rolling I-frames and less "WTF did I just get hit by"
This is why Dark Souls 3 will be my favourite Souls game. It is polished, doesn't have the jankiness, and refines alot of the mechanics. I played 3 first so, yeah.
Meanwhile Dark Souls' hit boxes look like they forgot how inertia and momentum work.
@@evilfungas "Elden Ring has the best hitboxes of any From game so far", i sure hope so. Is their most recent game :3
I think the Taurus demons delayed hitbox was supposed to be you getting hit by flying rocks lol
It's clearly that. Source: i have eyeballs
I think the timing still seems a pretty off, but yeah that's definitely the intent.
Speaking as someone who actually nearly got hit by a shard of rock from a sledgehammer impact... that stuff is FAST. Like "shot off into the distance and broke a twig off a tree 20 feet away" fast. And embedded into the tree. It's basically shrapnel. It wouldn't be nearly that delayed.
Also it has no real visual indicators anyways which is bad design if it is supposed to be flying debris.
@@tlozfreak888 there are visual indicators tho? a big dust cloud, little rocks etc. Is it delayed too much? Maybe. But I guess they were going for a bit of anime effect where delayed stuff like this is common.
@@tlozfreak888you are so monumentally stupid 😂
gaping dragon lowkey like old world monster hunter fights with all the random foot hitboxes that deal chip damage and trample you
When you've learned how to dodge Plessy hipcheck but still carted anyway because the accumulated stompy chip damage 😭
Some are even jankier. Like Gaping Dragon has a broken grab hitbox when he is just shouting. You can get grabbed despite him not even moving his arm: th-cam.com/video/f5LzEBnA294/w-d-xo.htmlsi=y5P-BZeRkSCIdHCW
Hey there he is, thanks for your videos clarifying and helping people be less discouraged to play ds2
Domo sighting yeaaaaaah
There he is THE Bearer of the Truth!
I was looking for you in the comments 😂
Good to see you here.
You should also check for older Monster Hunter games hitboxes because I swear to god I dodged this tankass plesioth shoulder strike but it always send me right back to the camp anyway 😂
jokes aside, freedom unite is still peak MH game imo
@@vanilla.icescream didn't had the chance to play it but for me mhgu is my favourite with Tri since Mhw and Rise were so "meh"
The move is so infamous in fact that capcom themselves aknowledged it in MH Stories 2 with the Plesioth Attack "Hyperspace Tackle"
I've only played MHW/Iceborne but I really find a lot of the monsters to have off-the-charts levels of BS hitboxes. I can't count the amount of times I've taken dmg from a monster "biting" the air in front of his face while I'm standing 2 meters away from the back of his tail.
@@bunklypeppzbelieve me when I say that they did an INCREDIBLE work with W/I because man these where not hit-boxes back then : there where building-boxes
"Sneaking suspicion" dark souls has always had immense jank, but boy do i love it
My mantra in dark souls games is "fucking squares" whenever I get clipped by an attack I clearly dodged
Fucking floating orbs
more enjoyable content than other big youtubers videos. Loved it!
Thx chief
9:55 ALL rolls (except flips, which have 13) have 11 s. Yes, this includes fat rolls (a00_0720 - a00_0723). Backsteps have 4 and flip backsteps 8.
Who knew? So it's just the recovery frames that are longer. Takes more time to become actionable I assume.
@@Babe1Babe2That is correct, as well as distance traveled by the roll.
Got a source on that? Everything I've ever read or seen on Dark Souls 1 rolling says fat rolls get 9 i-frames, midrolls get 11, and fast rolls get 13.
@@JokingJames2 th-cam.com/video/ipqrW_nJKf0/w-d-xo.html
@@JokingJames2I think distance covered has more to do with fat rolls being way less effective than the actual numbers of i-frames.
I have done a few runs in DS1 and definitely can agree DS1 has some janky hit boxes lol. Surprisingly Quelaag has some pretty bad hitboxes and 100% Kalameet does, but for 2011 game not too bad
Facts.
Now imagine if they would have given us a Titanite Demon with both legs 😂
right? you would expect that there is one somewhere or there is a story reason why they all have one leg.... nope! they are just like that.
9:54 this part is incorrect. All roll type has 11 s except for ninja flips which has 13. Fat-rolling has 11 s and 35~37 recovery frames. During the recovery frames, 25 of them are instability frames. If you get hit during instab frames you take 40% extra damage.
Mid rolling has 20~22 recovery frames with 14 of them being instab frames. Fast roll only has 10 recovery frames and 7 instab frames. Ninja flip has 6~10 recovery frames and no instab frames.
This is why light rolls are better for new players to learn the game. The 40% extra dmg kills many players more than most people imagine. Armor is good for sure, but no amount of armor is as effective at keeping you alive as leveling vitality to 30/50 with good poise, endurance, and roll speed.
He also called the Lava in Izalith, "Insta kill" I think he just hasn't played the game since it came out
@@azmakikian5400i think it was easier calling ti that
@@azmakikian5400he says at the end he played dark souls after starting with Elden Ring
The production value for under 2k is insane
small channel life boiiiii
Honestly would love for you to just continue this with the rest of the Dark Souls Trilogy! There's a bunch of questionable hitboxes throughout the games that made me scratch my head.
Holy hell, Titanite Demon's tail being the actual weapon makes so much sense. I never fought those guys head on because I could never understand how to avoid damage. The more you know.
What I'd like to know is what the bed of chaos' hitboxes look like, feels like the most jank enemy to me next to the titanite demons
More jank in design than actual hitboxes - overall his frame data was what you'd expect. Just a shitty boss lol
@@Babe1Babe2 Not sure if that makes it better or worse haha thx for the answer tho!
@@davidazzie6014 Dogshit, well executed lol
7:08 tbh i do use that for a dodge window. Feels like he pulls back which makes you dodge the actual attack.
Dark Souls 2 next please! I need to see the box for the Sir Alonne stab...
th-cam.com/video/fLK-iUqsJBA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=219n6ZYqWUIigSKJ
I absolutely adore your commentary ! Thank you infinitely for some closure on these janky attacks! I will be approaching specifically titanite demons very very differently from now on !
This is just confirming my suspicions that these games actually suck and we are all just having a collective Stockholm Syndrome.
3:24 as Gundyr, it aways felt natural to me that we get hit by the shards he sends flying, no wonder they add the particles right befere the damage
Awesome video! I've never seen anyone look closely at the hitboxes for DS1 before. I also just love your editing style, good stuff!
Dark Souls 2: **nervously whistling in the corner**
This is even funnier knowing dS2 had the best hotboxes in the series
@@GilbertTheGilbertGuy Playing it right now, just fought the pursuer. That sword grab attack might be the worst hitbox I've ever seen in these fromsoft games. Other than that I've not really noticed anything though to be fair (aside from the trio sentinels in lost bastille, some of their attacks reach longer than they should).
@@JustapErson The hitbox is fine it's just the animation. Every grab in the series has this issue. It hit your legs or arms and teleported you. Watch Domo3000s videos on the hitboxes.
@JustapErson once you know about that sword hit box and just stay clear he's not hard. Same thing with the jump attack from the demon in DS.
@@JustapErson you can literally just walk to the side and it will miss
I don't even remember when was teh last time I suscribed to a channel, but I really like what you did here. Good job!
To me, the missing hitbox of the Smough charge attack does make sense. It's the moment where his charge ends and the hammer swing becomes the main threat. Of course I never knew that he had no hitboxes at all, but I always tried to time my dodge around that transiton.
I've encountered a weird issue with that charge where I've sometimes gotten hit well after the animation ended and I was still a decent distance away from smough. I know I'm not the only one cause i've seen online footage of it and a couple friends have also mentioned it. No idea what causes it, but smough is just cursed.
"Don't hate the player, hate the game" is an ancient piece of knowledge for a reason
sad they didnt address even ONE of these glaring flaws in the ‘remaster’ 😢
I think a 'original' mode and a 'remastered' which DOES fix those would have been the best option, but if they had to choose between fixing it or not? Leave it as it was.
It took me like 20 playthroughs to master the titanite demon fight, now I feel like the true chosen undead
One of the worst hitboxes in any game I have ever played is the Dancer in Dark Souls 3...More specifically the grab. Dark Souls 3 in general has some trrrrrash hitboxes, but that's the most hilarious one. Imagine driving down the road and suddenly getting into a car accident, because a car was on the same road as you 10 minutes ago, but isn't there anymore. That's what it feels like.
Man nobody talks about how giant the hitboxes in ds3 are. They are way bigger than the weapon creating them, where’s leon Kennedy when we need another el gigante dealt with.
Dancer is almost my favorite boss in DS3, it's 95% brilliant, but that grab attack is horrible.
Agreed DS3 is by far the worst game in the series, it really expose the fraud Miyazaki is if Tanimura isn't helping. Miyazaki did a VR game that was an absolute flop, love of the worst VR games created
My best friend: Hey, try Dark Souls, it's great.
Me: Hmmm...
(my health bar appears in my friend's view)
The one that always bothered me with Smough was how long the AoE after his lightning but slam lingers--well after the visual cue disappears.
Ive just finished my first clear of Dark Souls and of all the videos telling me what game I just played, this one is the most validating. That moment you show the titanite demon jump attack i had flashbacks to the basement of Sens Fortress
I've never understood why people apply a special standard to DS2 and complain about its frames and hitboxes only when DS1 was blatantly egregious on these exact fronts, from start to finish. It's noticeable right from Undead Burg, and I accepted this as baked into what a Souls game is, and fell in love with it. I do have complaints about DS2, but those are about things that deviate from its predecessor, not the things that reiterate on its core traits lol
I think the main argument people have against DS2 is how inconsistent it is not only hitbox wise, but also with how Agility affects dodge rolling in DS2, and therefore your IV frames. In my own opinion, while yes, DS1 is jank as hell with regards to hitboxes, DS2’s inclusion of the Adaptability & Agility affecting your IV frames is what gave it such a notorious reputation for having god-awful hitreg. So while no, DS2 doesn’t have the same hitbox issues as it’s predecessor, it instead has a inherently poorly designed system for dictating how effective any given player’s rolls are at dodging an enemy’s attack, which (in my opinion at least) is leagues worse than some janky hitboxes.
Why is having a stat that makes things easier for you if you have trouble with dodging worse than not having the stat? My problem with ADP is indeed that I think easy mode-ish options like this undermine the sorts of experiences souls games are designed to offer (similar issue with the Master Key, and magic in the early games). But for people whose complaint is that they have trouble getting around the awkward hitboxes, shouldn't they be glad that in DS2 they now can purchase the extra leniency they need, while in DS1 and Demon's they just had to deal with it?
Furthermore, while the hitboxes in DS2 are sometimes strange and nonsensical, they work with total consistency, such that you can learn the moveset of any boss or enemy, and then dodge it with 100% reliability with your ADP at the minimum, default stat level. Once you have a bit of a feel for the game's quirks, you can even predict what the hitboxes are probably like for attacks you haven't seen before, and be right about it 9 times out of 10. It's easy for me to say this, since I have never added any points to ADP on any of my characters.
It's also not like players are entitled to i-frames at all, in the first place. Having them is a privilege. By all rights, we should be hit by any and every attack that we don't actually physically clear out of the way of. I-framing through things is basically an exploit. Is it bad design if a game isn't especially generous with how easy-to-use one of its exploits is?? Seems like a crazily spoiled mindset to me, to actually fix one's mouth to complain about that lol
A lot of it has to do with it visually, low adp/agility and the way ds2 registers attacks (it registers properly when you get it but finishes the animation of the roll THEN triggers the animation of the grab).
Also a long time ago we had no access to ds2’s debug because it runs on a different engine than ds1 or ds3, so people really would just go off of their experience rather than actual game data.
I actually like ADP it plays an interesting factor in builds in pvp making more tank builds have less i frames but they can trade that off for more health, equip load to wear heavier armour or more stamina to be able to block or attack more with heavier weapons, I just wish they did a better job explaining it and stressing how important of a mechanic it is.
From soft loves not explaining pertinent mechanics or stats well in their games and go with the vague “figure it out” approach which can lead to a lot of unnecessary confusion.
@@dauntethomas5594 That issue of having grabs teleport you is something that all three Dark Souls games + Bloodborne have. It happened to me against Pursuer and Sir Alonne, sure, but also happens easily against Gaping Dragon and Gwyn. Lady Maria did it to me once or twice. DS3's mimics have done it to me multiple times. Arguably Elden Ring's Mesmer does it. And the most blatant, egregious and frequent cases of it I've ever seen or experienced were by the Dancer of Boreal Valley, who is able to warp you into her hand while you're standing behind her ass.
So, it's again an unfairly targeted criticism of DS2 to me. I showed up in DS2 already being used to wonky grabbing nonsense from DS1, and then moved on to DS3 and continued to experience it a bunch more times on my first playthrough there. Yeah, the DS2 cyclops case looks sillier than usual. So what? You still mistimed the dodge, lol.
It's cool that you do get some enjoyment out of ADP, but its hard for me to concede that its an "important" mechanic. At least for PvE (my PvP experience is limited), DS2 is TOTALLY doable with no points on ADP. It's not even like a crazy challenge run thing. It's just...reasonable. These games heavily emphasized precise timing and placement in the first place, and all of them have significant jank. Then, DS2 with low ADP is...precise dodging with some significant jank. Nothing that should be a surprise or vexing hurdle for a From fan, imo, lol
If it's someone's first From game, yeah, that's completely different haha
@@philosophyofiron9686 It is a thing in all the games yes I agree, it registers the same way in the other games. It’s simply that in ds2 you can have way LESS i frames so there are few cases where it will look more egregious in the other games.
Trust me buddy I understand your frustration, I went from ds3 to ds2 and fell in love with it and actually wish they took a lot more from that game and implemented it in 3, yet when I went online (this was ab 6 years ago) the discourse was terrible towards ds2 with so much just straight up false information or people taking examples of poor implementation or design and saying the whole game was trash because of it despite each game having potentially make or break flaws.
Just take it in stride and refute bs with evidence, every game can have criticism but at the end of the day theres lots to love about this game and the other souls games despite their flaws, don’t let people ruin it or make it a negative experience for you :).
Also with ADP I agree, shields are great in this game and I learned to parry and use shields effectively and actually got really good at dodging and strafing attacks because of low ADP my first play through, still should have been made more clear as to what it does and how many s increase with the levels. Would save people a lot of headache and make it overall a smoother experience for most, I’m one of the exceptions where I still greatly enjoyed the game without understanding it and it made me dive more into all the really well implemented and fun mechanics after going online.
Damn, this explains so much.
Especially the Titanite Demon. Thanks!
I dont take the dash from Smough as jank. In my more than 1000hs just playing the game, numerous times I got hit by the initial dash and, depending in your poise, that small window to roll saved me from death. Its kinda weird when you face him 1v1, but in the initial phase is a nice little help from the devs in my opinion
That's a reasonable explanation for it. Looks odd on its own but maybe it was some kind of mercy when there is two bosses on you.
i think of it more like the fact that he's pulling back the weapon makes it not a threat at that point in the attack
it's like the reversal of the velocity takes all of its power away, before he follows up with the upward swing
@@pretentiosaurus Yeah these seem very vaguely physics based. Like there should be points at the beginning or end of any attack where the "velocity" is not high enough to cause damage, so the hitboxes show slightly before/after the halfway point of the swin where the velocity would be closest to its maximum.
Congrats on your viral moments! Just watch both of the hit box videos and they were awesome!
Me, a Monster Hunter player : "heh, ain't jankier than Plesioth"
I've been playing Dark souls 1 since 2015, and I still do to this day, but my god I ALWAYS had trouble against Taurus Demon, this video explains a lot
Aw hell nah now I'm really scared to watch a video about Dark Souls 2 hitboxes💀🙏
Domo3000 has pretty much a full catalogue
Dark Souls 2 actually has pretty good hitboxes.
DS2 is surprisingly not the worst about it, the biggest issues are the variable i-frames on rolls and how the grabs are handled - it doesn't correctly interrupt roll animations when you're hit by a grab attack outside of your i-frames window, which results in the "snapback" (you seemingly roll away and get suddenly yanked back into a grab) effect on some enemies.
@@sofija1996 yeah it’s super jank
Smelter, Fume Knight's sweep, Aava, could all be their own videos.
Randomly had this video suggested to me from the algorithm. I love the dark souls games but I don't play them because I suck lol. I find hit boxes and the technical side of games fascinating to see and understand. Would love to see more of this!
Don't even bother, go play monster hunter instead since this is actually a good game.
Ngl the WTC7 footage caught me off guard
this the type of video I wanna watch at 3AM. high quality content man! keep it up
What do you even use to do this?!?! I’ve been looking for something like this for a bit now.
Would love to see more on DS1 and the other Dark Souls games!
Checkout DS ANIM STUDIO on GitHub as one option 👍
DSAnimStudio and you might have to use UXM to decompile the files so you can actually see the framedata
@@aa-io1pc Dark Souls was actually really easy, you can just bring the anim files right into the software. Other games like Elden Ring are a lot tougher to crack though because you have to disable anti-cheat and unpack the entire game - or so I've read.
Install Dark Souls Animation studio, for BB, DS1 and DeS use the unpacked game option. For DS3, Sekiro, ER and AC:6 use the packed game option, you don't need to unpack the game I don't really understand why other people are mentioning it. Alternatively if you just wanted to see the hitboxes in game you can install CE and the grand archives table has a debug menu tab where you can turn on hitboxes and other attack data. For DS2 you need to install Debug Manager by Radai, which is still a pretty new tool and isn't well known.
Great video! It's awsome when we see people who started with Elden Ring actually continue enjoying the rest of the games!
what i like about titanite demon is that it counters the norm in terms of what you would expect from the animations, but it's consistent in of itself, which makes me think it uses the staff more as a distraction and really attacks with its tail
agree the gargoyles should have hitboxes on their tails tho lol
My man learned how to fight with Obito Uchiha, staff just literally goes through you.
I kinda would like it if it was a different ennemy design, like a sorcerer with a magic sword and the sword doesn't damage you but then there's a visible aftereffect slash that cuts you, so you get tricked by it but you understand what happened.
I think with the way the titanite demon is designed, even after it happens to you you don't really understand what happened because the attack animations don't really suggest the danger was the tail even after you got hit.
Another alternative would be to have the hitbox on the staff but a couple of attack with a fakeout swing and a tail grab attack, that would have sold the idea better.
Or just being able to cut the tail would have been fine maybe?
great video, this was so entertaining!
Blacksmith thing, honestly speaking...
Design 10/10
Fighting against him 0/10
hey man i just found your channel and i wanted to say good job. i really like this type of content and you have good vibes. keep it up bro til ur in million subs club.
3:43 is this also why other aoe attacks can't be rolled through? Like Fire Demon, or stray demon aoe?
Yep. Unlike later titles, the big explosions last longer than your roll
@@Babe1Babe2 oh ds1, you silly billy
@@TimothyGodto be fair this is one of the few hit boxes I’d praise DS1 for as I don’t think it makes sense to just roll spam your way through explosions. I think these should be blocked by your weapon or shield.
@@lukefitton7329 i slightly disagree, only cause when rolling you can visually see the explosions done, but you'll still get hit by the AOE. It looks like you can roll through, but you can't. Which makes the fights against them, stay by their rear and they can't do anything
@@TimothyGod fair point
Loved the breakdown! I tend to play a fusion of caster/melee so I end up being pretty far away from the bosses most of the time but I've def felt the pain of the Titanite Demons. Keep up the great work!
My game theory is that the reason they give feet hitboxes sometimes was a work around to prevent something breaking, like making sure the foot didn’t clip into the ground or bug out the boss’ model or something.
But that’s just my throw-it-at-the-wall guess.
I believe they're technically hurtboxes, but no, that's unrelated in most of these cases. The only place where it might be relevant is in Gaping Dragon's fight, where the pillars are destructible, I suspect that it's how the game knows when to cause some of those to collapse.
@@dranyth interesting! That definitely sounds more sensible.
Manus was such a hard fight. I thought he’d make an appearance cause that combo caught me every single time.
Manus was a menace. That 5 hit combo is atrocious- especially the 2nd attack, where you could be standing behind him and he still will get you and ragdoll you to high heavens. And that awful orb attack which covers the entire arena and converged to Manus- hitting you in the process. I still haven't figure out how to dodge that attack.
I always knew that ds1 hitboxes were the worst. DS2 gets a lot of hate but ds1 was just as bad with hitboxes if not more so. Thankfully from 900+ hours of experience with Elden Ring, I felt like 90% of me getting hit was actually my fault.
90% of this video is covering hitboxes that are inconsistent or missing, or hitboxes that deal nearly no damage. What people complain about when it comes to the hitboxes in ds2 comes mostly fro hitboxes that deal good damage, interrupt your actions, and are just too dang large.
@@jankbunky4279 I didn't have nearly as many problems with it as with ds1 hitboxes. I literally got hit by nothing, and the other time I saw a video where the player hit the air and it damaged the boss.
@@jankbunky4279ds2 s hitboxes werent that bad it is mostly adp. Since you get caught mid roll but only receive damage after the roll ends. Not saying adp is a good thing.
At least ds1 didn’t tp you into grabs all the time, although that’s likely more of an adp issue, since the attack tends to only go through after finishing your roll.
@@chgjake2230 Honestly that only happened to me once, and don't get me wrong, it was pretty frustrating but it was not as frustrating as the incorrect hitboxes of ds1 (which there were a lot of).
This offer a wealth of perspective into game design and what amount of thought needs to go into every little hitbox for players to feel like it's fair. Excellent video
I didn't even know the titanite demon dealt damage with its tail. I always just rolled into its left armpit to avoid the weapon swing.
Damn how have I never seen this channel before? Great video my guy! New sub
The Titanite Demon is my favorite enemy in Dark Souls. Not because he's fun to fight but because he looks so insanely cool.
I can see that, he has an intriguing design but fighting him isn't fun, I'd rather just read his wiki page. I'm not going back to the room full of them in sens fortress
Awesome video man. I like your style. Subbed.
The camera has been consistently bad ever since Demon Souls, it always felt way too close for big bosses, and nowadays that even the bi bosses are quite fast, the camera just can not keep up.
On other note, I curious about Dark Souls 2 framedata. I know that ADP is THE CAUSE of many frustrations in that game, but if I recall correctly, the hitboxes in DS2 were awful
I would blame Adaptability for the bad hitboxes. And Im gonna explain why.
DS2 has overall, except with Some exception, very clean hitboxes, specially, which is not most Souls can't say, grabs.
A problem is the I-frames. When you have low I-frames, you can be hit on places that at first you wouldn't think you might be affected specially if you come from any Souls before and after, such as the foot. You can blame this to the lack of I-frames.
But thats is not the main problem. That main problem is that on case or a grab, the player completely waits for the roll animation to end on these situations, on that moment is when you are affected by the attack.
Which leads on the Boss having an attack/grab, roll completely and seemingly succesfully out the grab, and then be teleported once the roll animation ends.
Thats so jank that gived the illusion as extremely inflated hitboxes for so many years.
they actually zoomed the camera out for the living failures fight in bloodborne and it worked pretty good. idk why they didnt keep using that feature for large bosses in future games
I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree on that, DS2 hitboxes are generally crazy with or without ADP; lacking ADP makes individual rolls feel unsatisfying, bad hitboxes make the whole enemy feel sloppy because the visuals are misleading and positioning is also invalidated. The worst are grabs, always, but there are so many bosses and enemies with other absolutely wack hitboxes and/or animations that start too soon, end too late or reach too far I really can’t agree. My personal favorite has to be the giants in the Gutter that slowly slam the ground in front of them as you run way behind them, yet your character standing 25 feet directly behind their backs gets pancaked.
Check domo300
Great Video! Usually, i can only imagine what is going on by getting hit with hips of a demon. So it's interesting to see the actual hitboxes :)
[6:20] IS THIS A JOJO REFRENCE!!!!!?????? !!BIZZARE MENTIONED!!!!!! 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
Your mind is broken
Nice video, really liked that one, keep up the good work
The bit about the Taurus demon is kinda funny; apparently the many players who quit DS1 over janky bosses and terrible level design 2 hours in have a point.
Janky? Maybe but terrible level design?? How?
@@the_seer_0421 The boss runbacks in the undead burg are problematic at best. It's what a huge number of players who didn't finish DS1 criticized and the early game is even super wonky with this - in the Asylum you respawn right next to the fog gate (setting expectations), Taurus and Capra demon runbacks are a damn slog. This is on the intended path. And it really doesn't get much better either for most of the game. It would be fine if it was an occasional thing on optional bosses I'd think, weaving in with the "teach the player persistence" theme, but as a default on the critical path it's just not good.
FromSoft has understood this over the years, to the point of adding the Stakes of Marika and Graces right next to the fog gates of Remembrance bosses. Boss runbacks aren't the "fun" part. People put up with them because the combat and progression loop is really good.
@@Chris-lc3wi well, fair but that has more to do with respawn points rather then the level design itself. Though it never really bothered me aside from the bed of chaos run back. That was the only one I found genuinely annoying.
@@the_seer_0421 I mean where bonfires are placed and where the boss doors are is part of level design. Nothing about this is accidental.
@@Chris-lc3wiwhen I think of poor run backs I think of Bed Of Chaos or Sir Alonne, I could see how the run back to Taurus or Capra can frustrate new players but I think Undead Burg was well balanced enough that you can easily manage your Estus from the Bonfire to the Boss and it only makes beating the boss even more satisfying. DS1 gives you a very generous amount of flasks so fighting Taurus with no run back and 10 flasks would be a cake walk.
All right i’m not as bad as i thought with the titanite demon. Great stuff bro!
DS1 fans owe DS2 fans an apology about "bad hitboxes."
My man, have you seen DS2 hitboxes? DS2 is FAR worse than this
@@DavidRodriguez-ok1cn data miners that have shown the hitboxes have actually proved that DS2 hitboxes are the closest to the actual models shown.
DS2 just has the least amount of s unless you level ADP for agility, and that the grab attack grab animation isn't polished/finished so if your character is rolling, they will finish the rolling animation, then snap into the grab so it just looks jank.
I always thought about this issue especially with the Taurus Demon! I am very happy that I was actually right with my assumption! 😅
I mean we really should be compensated by FromSoft for making us struggle so much to "git gud" whilst actually we just had to figure out the jankiness of their games! 😢
YES, A lot of the jank in DS1 was done on purpose and it shows, and may i also add, when you get knocked in Iron Golum and Bed Of Chaos arenas, you are programmed to slide to the nearest edge, i played this game so many times and there is no way that sliding is caused by the physics engine, it's definitely done on purpose
I’ve reached out to some modders to do another video looking at some code jank
This feels like cope lol
@@Babe1Babe2 Looking forward to it, this video was very entertaining, well done
Love this kind of info. Thank!
if ds1 had "correct" hitboxes it would be a cakewalk
The hardest bosses are mostly fair. O&S, Artorias and Manus are OK hitbox-wise. I hate how Kalameet's neck carries your character until your s run out, but other then that it's fine.
Only hard boss to be janky is Bed of Chaos.
Honestly for me I just hate the geometry in some levels lol I will slip off of shit all the time that looks like I should be able to stand on at least 10 times a playthrough, so I would include this as well
@@csabagalambos1461 That one move alone made that fight hell on my first playthrough, had to rely on shielding instead of dodging to avoid it.
@@csabagalambos1461 bed of chaos is only hard to beat in one try, but it's not really hard if you just accept you'll die twice =p
@@Laezar1 Yea but when each death means running through a significant chunk of lost izalith... Whoever came up with stakes of marika deserves a pay raise.
2:17 If you had toe pain, this would deal damage for 80% of your health bar. If you didn't have toe pain, this would grant you toe pain. New status effect! Remember that if the player's feet are caught below the giant's feet, uh, yea, you're lucky you can just walk away from it, because there would be no escape otherwise.
People say Dark Souls 2 has the worst jank. These people are blinded by their inch-thick nostalgia glasses.
Agreed. People just really wanted to hate DS2, that they hate it for reasons that they now praise in the following games.
Dark Souls 2 had less jank (that I experienced) than DS1 by a very large margin
@@CausticSpace remaster add more jank . fkn ankles physics, not fixed
I'm not great at either of these games. Quite bad actually. But I found DS2 to be much easier. Don't know if bosses have less health, if there's less movement jank, if hitboxes are better than people give them credit for, if their movesets are more forgiving. I can't say I know why, but I've had a much easier time dealing with bosses overall. Even beat some of them on my first try. And I'm sure others had the same experience. The downside of this is: you spend less time with any one particular boss, making them less memorable. I could probably list most DS1 bosses from memory. I can barely remember any DS2 ones, and a good number don't even feel like boses, just stronger enemies, like Dark Knights were in DS1. This is probably one of the big reasons DS2 just isn't as satisfying to people.
Cause ds2 had it worse and it being after years of development. As you remember the ds1 was rushed in its production. But ds2 for what it’s worth should’ve been way better with hit boxes
the centipede demon's true power is just randomly shoving you into the lava
just by walking around you
I started with Elden Ring and went back to play Dark souls
This here right here answers everything.
Nah, even starting with ds1 ur delusional to not say the game isn’t janky as hell- this is more due to the time it was made tho
You missed a fun one with Gaping Dragon: during it's charge attack, the first hitbox on its front right foot is actually a grab check, so if you stand on it you're instantly grabbed.
Reminder that Darl Souls 2 has WAAAAY less jank like this and has objectively better hitboxes.
And yet people solemnly swear ds2 has more jank despite empirical evidence supporting the contrary. It really shows the double standard and blatant misinformation people come up with in an attempt to shit on ds2.
@@Ev74977Facts bro and it’s not even excusable now, years ago you legit could not find actual hitbox data on ds2 because it uses a different engine and they didn’t have access to the debug, now its pretty much definitive and idiots will still spout the same notion without difinitive proof.
It’s mostly because of how egregious some of the grab animations are. You are actually getting hit, but the way you teleport onto the sword of the pursuer or sir allone makes it look like a hitbox issue.
@@evilfungaselden ring has the same issue though and people don't mention it
look at all these braindead ds2 glazers. you people want to be quirky and different so bad its cringe
This is a really good video. Subscribed
"OooOh dark souls 2 is bad because Dark souls 1 is less janky"
Dark souls 1:
The ds2 redditors are really fiending for a reason to drag ds1 down to their level 🫵🤣
you’ve got a pretty good editor really elevates the video to that next level
But if peak souls 2 did it they'd complain
Gotta do DS2 next. It's literally infamous for its wack hitboxes.
broke: Dark Souls 2 has the worst hitboxes
woke: Dark Souls 1 started it
9:20 hitbox longer than s just means that s is not the answer to all problems.
another way to avoid damage is right positioning/movement.
I find it more fun when it actually matters Where you roll, not only When you roll.
This man opened DS Animation studio checked animations and their frames but still says that the heavy roll has 9 i frames when the program clearly shows all rolls have the same I frames. How do you fuck up that bad.
Just because you can scroll through animations doesn't mean you understand the TAE
I strated playing dark souls a couple of weeks ago, this certainly explains the jank so far hhaha. Great Vid!
good video but the inclusion of what i believe to be an ai-generated office image was very jarring and felt trashy
I've intuit some of these for myself but to see them with the debug/animation data is really wild, especially to see just how much bigger some of the attacks are versus their view models, I wonder if several developers at fromsoft are responsible for different fights and that's why these feel so inconsistent throughout the game? good video!
That moment when Bed of Chaos hitboxes make sense. Relatively.
Remind me of Monster HUnter hitboxes, especially in older games, Plesioth hipcheck being an infamous one for exemple.