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I’m slightly leaning DK’s here. I know DH’s are faster and more agile, but DK’s have many abilities to negate their mobility. Chains of ice would slow them down, and death grip would keep them from flying away. Both are powerful, but I think the DK’s take more damage without dying.
Pretty much like the video, but I really disagree with some points. Illidan was considered gifted among the elves, an exception. And he went further, he studied magic, was trained as a druid to follow Cenarius, was trained as a Knight (serving Ravencrest), was personally empowered by Kil'jaeden. Also, he was greatly empowered by fel magic when he consumed the skull of Gul'dan. In other words: he is really far from an average night elf demon hunter. Arthas was trained as a paladin, but got transformed into a death knight, kinda like any death knight, except Arthas was trained by Uther and then got hold of frost mourne. Frostmourne is indeed one of the most OP swords we see in the game, but only when fully empowered by souls, which was not the case at the time he fought Illidan. So yeah, Illidan got beat out and has no excuses except the "unfair fighting location". Anyways, cool video, i'll check out the others.
Your forgetting that nerzhul was giving arthas everything he had power wise and frostmourne was empowered by souls at that time you really think arthas wasn't collecting souls from illidans army as he was pushing his way to the frozen throne? Also illidan at the time was still learning to use his glaives to their full potential along with the fact he couldn't train or practice for 10,000 years and still was evenly matched they both had incredible power behind them but they both also had factors hindering them
@@silverspear21 no he wasn't he himself states nerzhul restored his full powers when he emerged from the nurebian empire when he was talking to can't remember his name but the traitor king then when they finally got closer to the glacier nerzhul tells arthas he's giving everything he has to him to get to the throne
Yeah, I gotta disagree with the conclusion. I think the DK pulls ahead of the DH in a fight due to the abilities they have. DH's are built to deal with their opponents in quick successive strikes while evading blows from their opponents. In other words, DH's are meant for a brief, intense fight. DK's on the other hands are literally built to keep that fight running for a long while. They do not tire or feel pain. Their armor and undead nature means quick killing blows are not as successful against them. Their magic degrades their opponent's vitality and stamina the longer the fight goes on AND can be used to root their opponent in place so the DK *can* deliver one of their big heavy blows. All of these traits would be extremely problematic for a Demon Hunter as it practically counters their own training. Granted, the DH is a very skilled combatant and has centuries of experience so it wouldn't be an easy win for the DK. But I'm fairly certain that in most scenarios, the Death Knight will put down a Demon Hunter.
I agree with this also Arthas reason to attack the world was to get his undead army to counter the legion no way the death knights werent meant to be a counter vs the demons And dorons also forgot that illidan absorbed the skull of guldan ''witch was at the level of frostmourn'' according to the lore since it guldan had alot of knowledge/power that sargeras shared with him
You tried rooting a DH in PvP as a DK? They can vengeful retreat chains and reverse magic ice roots so can easily escape. And just because they're trained to fight with quick successive strikes, doesn't mean they lack the stamina needed for longer fights, especially if you take their "leech" into account, which revitalises them by hitting their enemies. Plus there's demon form, which boosts their strength, speed, durability and healing even more. I honestly don't think there's a clear answer and you could debate it endlessly and would ultimately depend on individual skill/experience or writing.
wasn't centuries of training when you realize they only been training so long as Illidan crossed over to the outlands that's when he started training them wasn't centuries of training mack, gotta pay attention to those time lines, Illidan was the only demon hunter in existence til he started training new ones in outland
@@Vinyls77 this video is based on arguemnts of LORE not in game. In lore leech wouldn't work on a Death Knight as they are undead and have no life force to leech. The opposite is true though, DH's are alive still and the DK can definitely leech their life force. Also DK snares are NOT magic in nature, they use literal frigind wind and ice to freeze their surroundings and opponents, you cannot reverse that. DK basically is made to be an endurance fighter which as the poster above said, in practice counters a swift brawler like a DH.
DKs win . They were made to kill everything , have unlimited stamina, feel nothing and can keep going forever lorewise . DHs are really good at killing demons but that’s it ^^
@@cultured956 pit Lords have different abilities. Demon Hunters are made to fight demons, so it's only natural they could defeat one and even then, not always. Death Knights are built differently, they steal and decay the enemies life-force, they use sickness, necromancy and all kinds of other more versatile abilities. Dh would be a difficult fight, for sure, but a Dk would probably win most of times because they are walking tanks with all kinds of different abilities that could counter a Dh
@@NarutoIIPrayer I feel that demon hunters are more versatile than most give credit to. They are not merely made to fight demons but are made to fight the burning legion, that means all kind of necromancy, life-force stealing, and underhanded spells... not only they will resist magic if got hit, but are able to counter the enemy magic and empower themselves by doing so.
@@alctry That I can agree with, plus the demon force also makes them stronger in some cases. But it's hard to say, maybe I'm just super biased, but sometimes you can win against a huge monster but lose to a human, you know? Because, like the video says, Dks have a lot of stamina and are more experienced in fighting "humanoid", humans, elves, orca, taurens and so on. One is specialised in fighting all kinds of demons, while the other is specialised in death in general
The DK vs DH lore battle goes like this. Wide shot of DK walking through a forest with a blur jumping in the trees. DK knows something is there but does not know what it is. DH speeds up and goes for an assassination blow on the DK. DK gets hit with what seems like a killing blow falls the ground. DH says "all to easy" cut to DK getting up restoring themselves with blood magic. The following fight ensues with DH trying everything they can not able to penetrate the DK, DH dodging the DK blows by milliseconds each time. Then DK empowers their rune weapon casting magic, ice summoning ghols and blood minions and anti magic deflecting any magical abilities the DH is now using as they transform into metamophasis bombarding the DK with insane fel and magical abilities. Cut to wide shot of the DK being fine and being protected by an anti magic zone. Cut back to DH landing after using insane amounts of magic looking to catch their breath, they look at their skin and body and notice that they have been rotting away being infected by a plauge and disease while they were dueling the DK in melee as they start to rot in real time. From there the DH can either light themselves ablaze with fel magic to purge what they can and escape or rot and die. Either way this is how a fight would go down.
I think the gap between Illidan and an average DH is far larger than you suggested. He was already a talented arcane user and utilized the Skull of Gul’dan to gain a kind of strength I doubt the rest have.
Illidan ate skull of guldan and born gifted sorcerer, comparing average elves to him makes little sense. On the other hand, Arthas was rather average paladin/fighter, your average fallen hero was much greater than his own paladin self.
To compare average death knights to Arthas is same as comparing average demon hunters to Illidan my dude. I mean Arthas was on Ner'zhul steroids, and we know how Ner'zhul was in life and death when it comes to power level
idk bout arthas being a average fighter but the rest yeah, same with illidan, they both seemed to be top tier fighters in the lore. they were like 2 different jaime lannisters of their time (were they the best? no, but they were top of the pyramid by what we seen from them before they became a dk/dh).
People talk shit about Illidan due to his loss to the Fallen Prince, but tend to forget the fact that he was the only person to survive getting hit by the Frostmourne. Other super powerful characters like Uther, Sarufang Jr., Antonidas, Anasterian, Sylvanas etc. were literally deleted from existence by Frostmourne-wielding Arthas. So yeah Illidan was on a god-like power level. Which means an average DH is not nearly close to him same goes to average DK compared to Arthas.
Most people on the comment sections seem to oversee certain lore bits on dhs, which is understandable as gameplay wise dh is quite limited, for the sake of balance-Which goes for most casters as well like mages and warlocks. -Some of the dhs actually use demonsteel made glaives they are quite similar to saronite in certain aspect and as far as metal goes they are quite capable, not saying it can pierce through saronite mind you but it can certainly damage a dk (not the armor) -Dh's are made to fight demons--Yes that's the base idea doesn't mean they aren't any good at fighting other things. People only seem to see dhs as faster and stronger humanoids. But dhs senses are also enchanted actually, not just speaking about specteral sight (which mind you makes them able to see magic being casted before the spell is finished casting things like strangulate, frost spells etc) but also they are told to be really good at reacting, being able to see all around them (illidan novel even mentions them being able to see behind them) and having an extremely sharp sense of touch where they could feel even the slightest hint of imperfection. -On top of this another major pointer seem to be: "Dh's can bleed and die but dks are undead." and "Dh's have soul damaging weapons" So far only frostmourn seem to be soul damaging hence the word mournblade. On another note, dhs can and DO use magic and they DO drain the souls and damage them as well, during a duel between dhs in the illidan novels, dhs even use the bits of souls they drain to heal themselves. So just like how a dk can cut their foes and heal themselves via blood magic, dhs can do something akin with souls, which is quite useful against a dk given they are quite resistant to regular injuries due to being an undead. -Frost to slow dhs, sure that's a valid tactic, on the counter argument dhs can engulf themselves in fel fire, which burns much hotter than regular fire and can't be put out by regular means actually. One of the few methods to douse fel fire is by using arcane magic to enchant water (water elementals also work, dalaran quest from legion.) So it can be used to counter frost, further more means dhs don't really have to pierce the armor to hurt the dh. -Dh's also heal very fast on their own, they have wolverine like healing factor and are as strong as ogres. Vendal (a new dh intiate) is said to be able to shatter boulders with mere daggers, and at one point gets wounded by Maive herself, and gets his skull cracked up. He passes out and wakes up in the morning FULLY healed. On his own, without using any magic. -Dh's in lore uses magic, offensively AND defensively. It is mentioned yet not limited to fel bolts, and even sheeths of 'darkness' to put off the blows from weapons. (During spars they also cover their glaives with magic to make them blunt and none fatal) I dare say both dk and dh counter each other quite well, fel fire=dk frost magic, blood magic healing=soul sucking healing, undead fortitude=fel fire/soul draining etc, it genuinly depends on the match up on this class...Which I rarely say when it comes to wow match ups. Just wrote this because most people in the comments seem to be going by what the in game skills are, rather than the actual lore implications! On a last grip, if anyone wishes to use Arthas beated Illidan though (I do adore Arthas, but let's be real), that's quite specific. First of all, they are not regulars, these two are essentially 'hero' characters. Secondly, Arthas had the strongest of the mournblades that was crafted by the literal gods of death x'D that was made to be used against other gods of death and steal their divine sigils...Not every dk has a frostmourn, Illidans warglaives were just looted from doomguard (albeit commander) while potent they are nowhere near on frostmourn tier. Number 3: Books stated that given Lich King knew that it was his last chance, he poured all his power into Arthas during the fight, again, something that doesn't happen to all dks xD
Cant really use Arthas vs Illidan because both were exceptional. No DH is as strong as Illidan and no DK is as strong as a lich king empowered Arthas. As for the ignoring dh lore, same goes for DKs and pretty much every other class existing in the game. Otherwise mages and warlocks would go around busting whole planets no problem
I'm with the Ebon Blade here. The Illidari are the best when it comes to fighting Fel-based creatures, but a necromancer is something entirely else, no matter if their magic originates from the Fel.
Exactly, Fel magic > all. Sargeras used Fel to defeat all other Titans, it overpowered them. Demons wield Fel magic, DHs beat demons, so safe to say DHs can beat death knights.
LMFAO necromancy magic doesn’t come from fel, and fel is more powerful than it. There’s a reason why the legion uses fel and not necromancy as it’s primary magic.
@@incadeptus pretty much, if not for plot purposes Arthas wouldn’t had beat Illidan. Never made any sense, some kid around his 30’s with a rune blade can beat a warrior that lives for thousands of years then empower drastically by fel magic.
And there is a reason why the Lich King cultivated such magic, he wasn't just into conquering Azeroth, he wanted a way to fight the demonic fel as well. Undead are actually pretty good against fel magic as for example fire is more effective against flesh rather than bones. And the same goes for soul based attacks, mana burns etc.
Everybody keeps mentioning the armor. Nobody gives a fuck about the armor when you got a chaos damage eye beam. Chaos damage lore wise is literally pure damage. Before you say, yes death knights have anti magic spells. Nobody gives a shit, chaos damage burns through all. Remember Tirion getting blasted through his pals bubble which literally makes someone invulnerable.
This is kind of a star wars fight where youre fighting against Vader, DKs don’t care how quick an opponent is when you have grip, an ability to literally crush their throat, you have ice shakles, and as for metamorhosis you’re a huge target and you do lose some speed so yeah i think DKs are a bit more superior
People keep mentioning demon hunters being able to fight pit lords as a clear win for them. Meanwhile the leader of the pit lords have been slain twice by a half-naked orc with an axe. third generation death knights are trained in blood, frost and unholy. They suck the life force of things around them, freezes the air around them while raising minions. They don't get tired, they don't feel pain, they can repair themselves through necromancy. DH and DK were training to fight the burning legion. DKs are made to counter demons, DHs became demons in order to fight other demons. I'm giving the edge to death knights.
Funny as these are my 2 favorite classes because I love arthas and illidan so much I’m definitely an illidan fanboy. But I’ll say I think death knights probably win. Ok now to watch the video ^_^
Literal unstoppable killing machines wielding soul-damaging runeblades versus fel powered mortal demon hybrids. You can look at demon hunters as enhanced soldiers, the Fel gives them speed and agility, but they still bleed, feel pain, where as death knights don't. If their frost magic won't stall em, the diseases will, as will them tearing at the very souls of the demon hunters. The downside of DHs is they were specialized to fight demons, death magic however is on a whole different level. I doubt DHs could even pierce DK armor, it's forged and runed, and the older armor was made of saronite, blood of an old god.
DH tatoos give them resistance to the strongest of magic. it can stop high caliber fel magic which in the Lore is the strongest type magic bar non. So I think DH can stop DK's frost and shadow magic which is even weak compared to a note able warlock's shadow magic or a mage's frost magic. the problem seems to be is the DK can't hit the DH and the DH seemingly can't hurt the DK. until the demon hunter transfroms into a demon . So now the DK is even losing the strength and durability advantage also. So the DH just cut their head off with their demonsteel made glaives they are quite similar to saronite so the dk's armor is going to give because even undead things have limits.
@@naquan59 Why would DKs lose the strength advantage? Quite the opposite,, their strength has no limit, same for their durability. They never grow tired or weak, they have no mortal/living traits. Nor is there anything to suggest ''demonsteel'' would cut through runeforged armor which is designed to be nigh impenetrable by physical blows so it's fair to assume there would be no head cutting. DKs do not expire as they are not even alive, but fueled by death magic, where as DHs rely only in the power they absorbed during their tranformation ritual, the demon inside, they are not like Warlocks who draw power from the Nether. I simply do not see this going in the favor of DHs, they do eventually expire and die due to the power they use in prolonged fights unless they have a source to refuel from.
DK for sure. They’re some of Azeroth’s, most powerful warriors turned into undead killing machines wrapped in full plate armour. A DH in full demon metamorphosis might be a problem but most illidari would get destroyed imo.
Also even if they were completely comparable in power, the Death Knights simply are more in numbers. All races of Azeroth vs just Elves? Yeah, there's really no discussion.
@@darbysplash No it's valid. Think about it, if you're a real life serial killer, you still couldn't take on a raging bull coming at you. Military forces have the means to do so though.
@@newgaim that still isn't a good argument, the video is one dh, vs, one dk. Nothing to do with numbers. Personally I don't care about either of the two winning, but saying "oNe KiLl EvErYtHiNg" is a shit argument no matter what side you're routing for.
Other demon hunters are nothing like Illidan. On one hand he is the "chosen one" of the light, with insane magical potential, on the other he became part demon through harvesting of the skull of gul'dan, while other DHs get their power from random demons. However the comparison can be made between Arthas (as a dk not the lich king) and other death knights in terms of power level (putting aside frostmourne ofc)
One thing I find interesting is the fact that both of these classes were intended to fight the legion eventually. Arthas believed that an undead army made up of all the inhabitants of azeroth would be needed in order to beat the legion when it would inevitably return. That being said, I do think death knights would win in a lore scenario considering how absolutely broken they are in it. Sure, DHs are meant to fight demons, but they still feel pain, still get tired, and their minds can be broken even after they lived through their initiation.
tbh Demon hunters replenish off souls and if amassed in a group can just constantly harvest DK souls. but Dk's simply win in an all-out war due to just numbers. however DH's have been fighting for a significantly longer time then most if not majority of death knights after all these are elves from tons of different ages
@@Vikrampic123 DK's can also heal themselves using the DH''s blood, so it would be a battle of attrition. The point in Arthas making deathknights was to revive the best fighters he ever faced into weapons of the scourge and I imagine Bulvar is continuing that sort of filtering process, so they wouldn't be taken out so easily.
@@TimeyWimey. I'd say it simply depends on the playing field And whatever specialization of demon hunter and Death knight they are. I'd say Havoc Can def overpower a frost DK but I don't think demon hunters have resistance towards the runic diseases a unholy DK can throw out
@@Vikrampic123 actually I'd say unholy would probably be easiest for them to fight compared to the other two specs. All dks have the ability to slow opponents but frost is the best at it, which negates the DH's main advantage. Unholy on the other hand gives a DH a lot of fodder and a lot of souls (if the minions have souls, which idk). Frost dks just suck in game, but in lore they should be pretty brutal to fight.
While I would agree that demon hunters are the more "elite" force, I think the deciding factor is not their actual melee prowess but their respective abilities. At first glance it might seem like demon hunters would have an edge with their superhuman speed and strength, and they would, except for the fact that death knights are literally designed to negate that sort of thing. Apart from their necromantic abilities they almost exclusively use abilities that limit what their opponent can do with things like chains of ice, strangulate, death grip, asphyxiate, there is no running around and dodging forever against a death knight. It's true that they are slower than demon hunter as a baseline, but it doesn't matter if they can just bring them down to their level, and it doesn't matter if the demon hunters still land a few more hits, the dks can just heal themselves and eventually they will outlast them.
But DH are designed to resist magic, and can use their own to restrain a DK just for that short time to land a critical blow (while metamorphosed they have quite the explosive strenght too) and let the duel end quickly. I would like to add that if necessary the demon hunter could easily flee from the battle, while the death knight would have no way to.
Illidan recieved a major power increase when he consumed the skull of gul'dan. He was able to defeat Tichondrius after, he actally says that he can be more powerful than any Archimonde soldiers. However when Illidan fights Arthas, the death knight was fully empowered by the powers of the Lich King. It says in the cinematic before final mission.
Doron you can’t use the argument that demon hunters can solo pit lords. Considering in the Demon hunter video in legion, it took a bunch of demon hunters to take on a Pitlord, with Illidan being the exception. As it would for in most cases a death knight would. But death knights have more advantages then Demon hunters, also depends on the race. Like a night elf Dk would more and likely be more knowledgeable against glaives. Also in a battle of attribution a Death knight would win hands down, since they don’t tire and the can drain life to sustain themselves. The only reason why their was so few Demon hunters was partly because we killed them all as Adventurers and also the fact that Illidan didn’t trust very many people. While the 3rd Death knights of the Ebon blade, were personally trained by Arthas and his most elite death knights. While 4th Gen one’s were more just bodies or cannon fodder to fight against the Jailer’s forces in the shadowlands. Which was said along the lines in a novel before shadowlands took place. Considering the 4 horseman brought up, that they didn’t even get trained, when they compared to the 3rd Gen dks. Given Arthas did use the Ebon blade as sacrificial lambs to get Tirion out, probably banking on that the Ebon Blade wouldn’t break from his control or any sacrifice was worth it, as long as he got Tirion.
See someone that has some sense in him lol thank u I was bout to write a complete essay on the lore between the 2 lol for all the peeps saying dhs would win in a fight against a death knight and if it was a quick fight still the dh would win lol like that makes 0 sense
@@Myriadid let's see here ingame, war of the ancient illidan rise of the horde, chronicles shadow bringers ,before the storm warcraft 3, illidan, the game manuels and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head so you were saying?
DKs win no question. DHs abilities like restraining demons, scouting them out with their eyes, and flying are pretty useless and all they'd have is their fighting prowess and eye beam. A quick fighter who oddly leaves their upper body exposed is kinda screwed against a heavily armored undead warrior who can summon mini armies, strangle people mid air, etc. Anyone who agrees with DHs are like they guys in school who wore tapout shirts lol.
Why is everyone forgetting DH’s higher resistance to magic? “Oh Ice spells. Grip.” Etc DH’s also generate more power and energy to more damage they take. Truthfully given the perfect situation, and as boring as it is, I’d call it a draw. This is a STRvDEX debate. “Yeah but DHs are agile and can dodge.” “DK’s have an Army, and one good strike can kill!” These are both very true. But I agree with this video if the two fighting were fresh in their role. An Illidari would have to consume a demon to become a DH, a DK is just a raised soul the put on armor. Even if they were a fighter in the previous life, DH’s have the power of a demon fueling them. DH power spikes a lot earlier than DKs imo and they level off fairly well.
Nothing in the lore or in their abilities implies they are immune to magic to the point where it's not effective against them. Also. The death knight can summon extra rune blades or use unholy magic to rot away at their vitality and flesh. Even if they had some resistance to it, they wouldn't be completely immune. The death knight meanwhile IS immune to most magic attacks, an eye beam wouldn't do much against an anti magic shell or barrier.
@@xiii9154 Like I stated, it’s getting into semantics now. Majority of DH’s attacks are physical. And never did I say they were immune, but they have a BASELINE resistance to magic while DKs have a skill that makes them immune not a constant immunity to it. We can literally run circles around this topic unfortunately, why I said it would more than likely be a draw in the most standard or even extreme situations. I still stand by a newly titled of Death Knight (not newly raised, they just earned the title) versus a newly titled Demon Hunter (again they just consumed a demon soul and survived the transformation to be called Demon Hunter) in THIS situation only I strongly believe DHs would win hand, not by a landslide but it’s very possible for a DH to suffer the same defeat due to over confidence like Illidan but that’s another can of worms.
@@onedeadrogue5557 A higher resistance to magic doesn't mean they can not be grabbed by a shadowy hand made out of shadow magic, that's not how magic resistance works. It's referring to stuff like fire magic. And by how much is never stated lore wise. We can assume they have a somewhat better time with tanking hits from magic spells but aren't completely immune. That means disease would -still begin to whittle them down in a fight, just as a slower rate. The death knight HAS the ability to stretch out the fight. They're tanks. The majority of the damage from the Death Knight will be physical in nature. From massive runeblades, axes and hammers, something that the demon hunter cannot I repeatcannot tank for. They do not have the armor, and it's coming from a class that also has superhuman strength. Blood magic strengthens them and makes them more durable just in general, not just to magic but to all forms of damage. They also have the ability to summon extra rune blades in a fight in case they somehow start losing in a melee. Death knights are by no means slow brutes. They can dodge if they need to. There was even a talent in wotlk of increasing dodge chance in the unholy tree. We also see Arthas dodging attacks from Iillidan. So it's actually far worse for a DH in this situation. You have an opponent who has. 1. Better armor, the best in fact, plate, probably saronite. 2 Can dodge your attacks. 3. Can parry your attacks. 4 Your attacks, even if they get through all three of those, will still have little affect on their ability to keep fighting unless you cut off their head or arms. And if they're really adept at blood magic, they can probably regenerate their arms back even with some effort. There is so much shit a demon hunter needs to go through. It's like pitting a Ninja or Assassin versus a Samurai. The assassin is really good at it's job but they won't be able to beat a samurai on a battlefield. The only time I see the Demon Hunter winning is if they overwhelm the death knight in demon form, which I concede will give them a physical strength advantage, though not to significant degree, and is temporary and then cut off the death knight's head or destroy it another way. And the death knight needs to fuck up for that to happen. So again, 7/10 in favor for the DK I think is fair, if not slightly too charitable to the DH.
@@xiii9154 I disagree entirely with Assassins vs Samurai… Assassins are literally Rogues. Stealth. Advantage Attacks. If anything it would be like a Cat vs Dog (minus size weight advantage) Grip vs Imprison. Tank vs Tank. Plate vs Demonic Scales (reduces ALL damage taken Havoc is just MR). The both have increased dodge skills. They both have immunity skills. Again you’re leaving out so much, favoring the DK. Mind you I’m a Druid main and have no stake in this discussion so this will be my last post as I feel we’re going down the rabbit hole like I said. But if you want facts? DH has Meta vs DK has the undead. Loki, “I have an Army.” Tony, “We have the Hulk.” Thanks for listening to my TedTalk
Wait correct me if i'm wrong but isn't arthas weakened when he faced illiddan? Like he was weakening that was why he was rushing the frozen throne... right?
can't say i agree but this was an interesting video compared to your last 10 or so giga clickbait videos which had no actual point, hope we get more of that in the future.
Using legion as a comparison and both class hall quest as i played and both, i prefer demon hunters rather then death knights, but worth noting is that the weaker death knights that you work with in actively state how easy it is for them to counter fel magic with their magic shields and resistance, and most of the death knight quest sees the death knights pretty easily solving any problem that comes there way, to the point that they even raided lights hope and were doing extremely well, until the light itself intervened in the battle. On the other side, the Demon Hunters do portray themselves as being these very powerful beings, but in the questlines of legion a lot of Demon Hunters ended up getting captured or even killed, as you do find a prison of them near nighthold. So it does paint them as not quite being the badasses that you describe them to be.
Here is the source of that belief from the WoWiki and the quest "The Dead and the Damned". Travel to the citadel and assist Baron Sliver as he disables its barrier. Citadel Barrier Disabled Dagnar Stonebrow says: I'll be taking this for me self! Dagnar equips the fel lord axe behind him and follows Sliver and the player as they run up the path to the southeast. Sliver pauses in front of an area scorched by "Fel Creep", which deals heavy Fire damage to characters who stand in it and slows their movement speed by 65%. Dagnar Stonebrow says: What're ye waiting for? Get a move on! Dagnar runs across the scorched area and is burned by the fire. Dagnar Stonebrow says: Owwww!!! Owwww!! Sliver instead uses [Anti-Magic Shell] before crossing. Baron Sliver says: Fool! Has your mind rotted to dust? The Legion's magic is easily avoided. Follow Sliver's example or use [Wraith Walk] to avoid taking damage as you pass over the scorched area.
Lich King beats Illidan, Death Knights beat DH. Them aside, DK's have much more badass characters like Alexandros Mograine and Nazgrim. Death Knights would win. Name a DH aside from Illidan that could take Nazgrim or Mograine out.... I'll wait.
@@incadeptus My Death Knight got shadowmorune, and had apocalypse. Not to mention the twin blades made from shards of frostmorune. Most death knights uses rune weapon just like frostmourne, even if they are not that powerful they are still rune weapons. And not every demon hunter got to suck the power of skull of guldan in wc3.
@@ToneyCrimson You are confusing gameplay with lore. In lore only one dk champion got Shadowmourne and the runeblades, not every dk. My priest got a fucking Old God weapon called Xal'athat, but that doesn't make priests more powerful than dks.
Big problems with this argument. For one. You're discounting and downplaying the death knight a LOT. None of their abilities are mentioned. The ability to control disease and decay, to regenerate using blood magic, and slow their opponents as well as well as grip them near with death grips. The only pro I will give the demon hunter is physical strength during demon form, which isn't that big of a difference since death knights are undead and anything but weak, and spell power such as eye beams, which the death knight has answers to via anti magic, where the demon hunter doesn't. It comes down to who can outlast who, and the death knight has FAR more tools overall, where as the Demon Hunter is just a blunt ball peen hammer. Have you even considered the fact the death knight can summon extra floating rune blades to help deal with the demon hunter's strength and speed? What are they going to do about the disease? What will they do when the death knight starts to regenerate it's flesh with blood magic? What happens when the DK surrounds himself with frost magic and begins to freeze the Demon Hunter anytime it gets near? You didn't mention any of these things. The Death Knight has TONS of tools to deal with a Demon Hunter. The pitlord argument calls flat because a pitlord is a far larger target as well as slower, and usually has large amounts of it's body unarmored. A death knight is by no means slow either as we see Arthas dodging those blades with impressive reflexes. It would be a closer fight than usual, but I'd still give this to a death knight 7 times out of 10. The only time I see the demon hunter winning this is if he can end the fight quickly by incapacitating/killing the death knight with a beheading. The Death Knight doesen't need to aim for a specific part on the body of the Demon Hunter to do damage.
Extra blades -> spectral sight (360° field of vision as well as being able to see and recognize magic even before being fully casted); Disease -> not entirely sure on this, but I think it can be resisted by their magic resistance since the disease is made with magic, and if necessary dispelled with reverse magic/consume magic (not how it works in the game ,but maybe in a lore scenario could be possible); DK regeneration -> Demon hunters can damage and drain the soul, so while the DK regeneration is a bane to most classes, DH can bypass this entirely if needed. Edit: oh btw DH can negate the regeneration too as stated in the books "Vandel took advantage to stab his blades again and again into the dreadlord. The magic on the daggers cut his flesh, leaving rotting wounds that would not heal." cit. World of Warcraft: Illidan The death knight surrounds himself with frost magic -> The demon hunters surrounds himself with fel fire Death grips -> Illidan's grasp back to assert dominace >:D All this being said I think is mostly based on experience from the fighters, and while DK have fought battles and can even be long living races (ironic since they are not living anymore xD) I think DH on average wins. So it's 7 times out of 10 but for DH imo :)
@@alctry Death grips would be able to be used repeatedly lore wise. Ilidan's grasp is just the demon hunter flipping back. Spectral sight does NOT Give you a 360 degree line of sight. Nowhere in the lore is that stated. It allows you to see through walls and better sense your prey. Even if you were able to do that. Which you can't, that doesn't mean you can react in time, especially if you are busy with the death knight and then a rune blade comes in from behind. You'd have too many blades to keep track of. But you also can't even do that because that ability doesen't do what you say it does. wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Spectral_sight wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Spectral_Sight Death knights have the same soul sucking capacity as demon hunters, and their ability to regenerate their flesh is more potent given they can TAKE more damage in the first place. Your book citation only refers to attacking a mortal or an alive character, not an undead using blood magic to counteract rot. Again, decay is Death Knight's domain, they can control and counteract it at their will. Blood magic would simply nullify it. Death Knights Disease is made with magic but disease in itself is natural, and therfore cannot be resisted. That's like saying he can resist a massive glacier piece being impaled into him because it was summoned by magic. Even if they're resistant, that doesen't mean immune, and it would still mean they'd be gradually getting weaker and weaker as the fight went on. The magic of the demon hunter would be completely useless against a death knight because they specialize in nullifying magic in the first place. That mean's the eye beam won't be able to be used effectively. The demon hunter has less ability to take damage, because they're mortal at the end of the day and require mortal things to survive, blood, sustenance, et cetera. They also don't wear any more. Because they need to fight the death knight in a melee, they'll eventually get cut, and that means losing a limb. Something they can't deal with or bring back, where it doesen't mean anything to a death knight, and they can just use blood magic to repair their flesh and bone if it somehow becomes a problem. And they won't get through because of the heavy plate anyways. The death knight can also boil their opponents blood, cause hearts to stop and explode and blood vessels to pop, and because demon hunters are still mortal and have fel blood, they that can be used against them. The Death Knight wins the majority of the time. It's obvious who is stronger on average.
@@xiii9154 For the spectral sight there are some lines in the book (and sometimes in the game) that made me assume it was a 360 line of sight. But by quickly searching them I agree that are in grey area since it's not declared as seeing the demons (and demon hunters) but sensing them (At least the one I found by a quick research), so I will drop that for now ^^' About the anti-healing rot, I would say it could work even if they are undead, we see that rotting is a primary concern for lesser undead and, while death knights are "built different" and can surely repair the damage, I don't think he will have the time to focus on it during a battle where the demon hunter can take advantage of a good opening. Remember that it worked on a dreadlord, blood magic is their thing too. What I want to say is that an average death knight, even by having all those option at his disposal, can't use them all at once, he will have to compromise between boiling the demon hunter's blood or countering the rotting for example.
@@alctry No, no. It's not a grey area, it's literally not a thing. Even if they were able to see in 360 degrees, that doesen't mean your body is adapted to being able to counter act strikes from all over in time. Also, they don't need to focus on it, it literally takes seconds. The demon hunter has to get through is armor, he can take his time, rune taps and blood magic are instant casts, they don't need 'time' to do it they can do it on the fly. A death knight can be worn down to a skeleton or even a spirit and be able to fight on still. ((Example being the black knight boss in Trial of the Champion.)) The disease would take a long time to work and again, rot is controlled by death knights, they could just stop it in it's track via their skill in necromancy. A death knight literally controls death and decay, they're not just regular undead. You can't rot them away, they will control that rot because they are walking talking vectors of raw unholy power. The death knight could do those things nearly instantaneously all whilst overwhelming a demon hunter by summoning extra rune blades and ghouls even if they needed to. The demon hunter would be at a disadvantage in a melee range because the death knight's two handed weapon would be hitting FAR harder, Especially since the demon hunter doesn't wear armor.
@@xiii9154 By saying that the DK would have to compromise, I meant as him having limits to the magic he can muster. Sure they have unlimited stamina but shouldn't have unlimited magic prowess too. They must have a limit, and that's why they have defeats like at light's hope chapel from other classes. I know light's hope chapel is a special place but you can change the name to whatever location a DK fought and lost; let's say the defeat in the broken isles at the beginning of legion... wasn't there at least 1 DK? couldn't he keep using his necromancy and blood magic to stay "alive" and win the battle? What would change then from a strong DK and a weak DK? assuming they have the same battle experience, how can the strong one (let's stay Arthas, without frostmourne tho) win against another DK, both being the immovable object? This text is a provocation, I know, but don't take it in a bad way, I mean no disrespect. I just feel like you are pairing a very good DK vs a bad DH. Remember that Vandel was a DH for about 1 month when he killed a Nathrezim (and a felhound, two Mo'arg and an imp that aided the Nathrezim, displaying good ability at countering strikes from multiple foes). And while the DHs don't wear armors, their skin/scales are able to make up for it.
I disagree with your conclusion. DK's can use death grip and strangulate to deal with the demon hunters speed (or chains of ice to slow them as well). They can also raise ghouls to fight the demon hunter as well, making the fight lobsided against the DH. On top of that they could litterally just infect the demon hunter with one of their plagues making them unable to fight at 100% (if at all) I agree that DH's have more training and are propably more elite, but DK's just have way too much utility and magic for them to handle, simply by them being undead/a death knight.
I think dk has a slight advantage, you got death grip, asphyxiate, and chains of ice to slow down that speed of a dh so speed is kind of pointless. You’re now talking about blade on blade metal on metal so with no pain being felt in a dk and the advantage of strength, almost seems outmatched
Arthas only won because of Frostmourne. The other dks don't have a Frostmourne so it will not be as easy as people say it will be for the dks. And their are NOT immune to magic, just have some protection against it. So a DH who has been a powerful sorcerer before his transformation can easily beat a dk. People forget DHs are extremely extremely old which is too much experience for the dks to handle.
Dks hand picked. In lore there are like a 100 of them. They are the best of the best and just by power of will rejected the helm of domination. Dh are juiced up but are trained to take down specific things.
@@oommNG DHs are also thousands of years old and elves are usually the best warriors in every fiction. Demons are extremely powerful creatures that can easily beat the Death Knights. If DHs can beat them, you get the point.
@@incadeptus first of all elves in wow are just magic trolls. They are not super powerful physically. Arthas wiped them out with his undead army. Secondly not all demons are so powerful a fel guard is like a scourge abomination power scaling. And lastly, what about dk elves uhh?
@@oommNG Arthas wiped the high elves, not the night elves. There is a big difference between the two. Night elves are extremely powerful savages physically.
Well if you want to get technical warglaives tend to be curved.. curved blades aren’t great for penetrating plate armour so DH would struggle to damage a DK in melee
I think that nobody would win most of the time, they are just too incompatible, the DH is too quick for the DK and the DK is too defensive and has infinite stamina. Most probably most fightws between the average of both would end in the DK retreating to archerus or the DH just flying away. And for a fight to the death due to X, I think it would really go more towards DKs than DH, mainly because the DK can afford to make mistakes, the DH cannot.
In lore, can Death Knights take their armor on and off? Do they and The Forsaken have a power cap.....or can you just keep getting more and more powerful after Undeath? How do the undead move their bodies and deal with things like Rigor-Mortis? How does undead reanimation of a corpse work in WOW lore?
Yes they can take their armor off. They typically can’t get stronger due to dead tissue, but magical enhancement and replacing parts does work. Undead are moved by dark/death magic, specifically the same kind that chains their soul to their corpse. It’s an imperfect connection however.
@@KiropLokiIncarnate . Thanks. It's awesome they can take their armor off. Now you said they can be magically enhanced and replace their body parts with the body parts of others........ but cannot get stronger the natural way because their muscles are dead? So then are there any limits on the magic enhancement method? If they find the corpse of a demon much stronger than themselves, can they just replace their own body parts with those of the dead demons and still be Death Knights after that?
It's notable that higher undead like Liches, DKs, Val'kyr and Dark Rangers are on an entirely different level to your everyday undead by the margin of not even close.
@@zombiedemon1762 As far as I can tell, there's no real upper limit to how strong magical enhancement can make someone, especially if they can replace parts of themselves. The issue then becomes one of cost- why spend ever higher amounts of mana and materials to strength an individual when a large group of sparser equipped fighters is better in every way except long term, sustained damage durability? There's also the fact that Death Knights and Forsaken/regular undead are simply built different, namely in terms of their role within the Scourge and thus how much effort was spent on them. As for your demon part question, I suppose they could, but A: the interactions with Fel taint might be negative for the DK, and B: it wouldn't suddenly make them weak to Demon Hunters. DHs are demon HUNTERS- i.e. they're really good at killing DEMONS. The DK would have to act like a demon to be vulnerable, and they just flat out don't in nearly all aspects DHs train for. Remember that Demon Hunters are closest to Witchers in terms of power level and specialization.
Hey man WoW has a free trial up to level 20 if you ever want to check out, although i would recommend you to wait for the next expansion in December, it's a significant upgrade to the current game and will definitely provide you a better first impression :)
@@zombiedemon1762 Oh i see, next year Microsoft will acquire Activison Blizzard (WoW Devs) and hopefully the game might come out to Xbox, an Xbox Series S should be more than enough to run the game well, 300 bucks isn't cheap, but it's definitely more feasible than a PC.
I think in a quick fight the DH would win but in a longer fight the DK resilience and magical resistance would eventually win out. Every second a fight last with a death knight you're losing ground. Their blood and unholy Magics will sustain them and they will never get tired. Every blow will be as powerful and quick as the last and most spells and magic you throw at them will be absorbed or mitigated. Even slight contact with their blade will make you violently sick and you will slowly begin to die even if they don't land multiple strikes.
I mean death knights don’t feel anything for starters and we’re talking about arthas here thee most powerful being on azeroth even top 3 in the universe so idk about ur statement but some is true
And he was one of the best paladins also to trained by one of thee greats all time in uther and the light is not as powerful as death but still triumphs over fel in lore so I mean…. If u want a deep-dive on lore in this argument I will gladly help
Demon Hunters win, I don’t get why everyone thinks all Deaths Knights are powerful. There’s a reason why so many Death Knights got their asses handed to them at Lights Hope. If they’re all that powerful they wouldn’t had lost. There are only a few elite death knights, most aren’t skill enough to beat the Illidari who fought against armies of demons in Outland and other worlds before they got imprisoned.
Why am I not surprised. Dorons is infamous for being bias for his DH babies lol. I saw the title for the video with history on his other videos on his prior take on DH's and thought hmmm I wonder who he is gonna choose. Of course I highly disagree. DK>>>DH too many counters. Took a group of them to kill a pitlord so stop it. Dk could easily summon an undead army to distract the Pitlord for a killing blow, then rise it to serve him.
Im a demonology Warlock name Lillith, In pvp and world pvp, I always HUNT demon hunters, ive gotten so good at knowing their rotation I can almost predict their choices at times, I love summoning a literal army of demons to kill a demonhunter lol.
Although DK`s are more armored and can lock down a DH temporarily with chains of ice, strangulate and death grip, the DH can turn invisible, use smoke to make them harder to hit, are fast as fuck, can turn into a literal demon, shoot fel fire out of their eyes, can also stun with fel eruption and their aura burns you wther you have armor on or not. Also they are anti magic and can imprison. Both DK and DH can selfsustain though. I wholeheartedly believe DH`s wins more duels than DK`s lorewise. As for the fight between Arthas and Illidan, Illidan toyed with Arthas because he is a cocky bastard. Add some plot armor ontop of it and there you have the reason Arthas got out on top. When Illidan knocked Frostmourne out of Arthas` hands he could`ve literally chopped his head off.
I really don't think there would be a clear winner. Both groups lost to regular fighters/people in the end. See the Black Temple and Ice Crown. Both fell in the end.
Saronite armor, unholy strength, frost unholy and blood powers a rune blade and relentless endurance from being undead. The demon hunter would probably be on near even footing in terms strength base form probably Slightly weaker however much faster, their abilities like fel beam, fel barrage etc would be greatly diminished due to the armor and the death knights power to create anti magic shells, frost blasts would slow the demon hunter down as they have no such magical immunities, and the ability to raise dead presenting the demon hunter with multiple foes to deal with at once. Not to mention lore wise we've seen death knights force strangle multiple foes at once I think the death knight has it base form. The demon hunter has some impressive abilities of their own but I feel like the only chance the demon hunter has is in it's demon form, and being the death knight has more tools in it's arsenal I think 6 times out of 10 the the death knights come out on top. It really comes down to the death knight's impressive magic defenses, ner'zthul made them with the thought of being able to handle mages or kirin tor, and most likely warlocks as well since he planned on betraying the legion.
People don't understand how powerful the Burning Legion was and how powerful Fel magic is. Death knights are not immune to the Fel because it overpowers anything. That is the magic Sargeras used to defeat all the other Titans. and if Demon Hunters fight and defeat demons wielding Fel magic, it is safe to say they can beat Death Knights too.
They can, but will they? The Lich King was getting ready to break free from the legion as well, so his arsenal included an army ready to fight fel magic wielders as well.
You've apparently never had to fight a demon hunter as a Death Knight, locking them down is not the problem. They're metamorphosis is the only real X Factor, otherwise the death knight ones pretty handedly. Though we metamorphosis the demon hunters can absolutely win, though it's with a limited time, and if DKs can outlast metamorphosis they went.
Doron ur reasoning is false ur not even bringing up any important factors of the death knights since I’m guessing u like demon hunters more so that’s why u gave them the ultimate goal by saying they can beat death knights in 7/10 scenarios even tho if we’re talking scenarios death knights can easily weaken or destroy demon hunters 10/10 scenarios so demon hunters don’t really have a chance to go up against a death knight whoops
Demon Hunters share a lot of traits with Witchers- highly skilled monster hunters with inhuman powers taken from their prey. This makes them great fighters, but ultimately they’re still mortal living beings that get tired and need to eat. Death Knights are absurdly powerful- heavily armored tireless knights with all sorts of magic to help them. The only way to beat them is to manipulate the environment to trap them, and even that only slows them down.
Not sure why DHs being made to kill Pit Lords puts them on another level from DKs. Grommash Hellscream in W3: Reign of Chaos killed the Pit Lord Mannoroth with a single blow. Granted, he was empowered by fel, but honestly - 99% of the races are empowered by something. Fel, Void, Light.
Hellscream, without being empowered, killed Mannoroth again in WoD. Then later, in the same expansion, Hellscream got owned hard by Gul'Dan. Basically, I agree with you. Pit Lords really aren't that impressive and I think an average Death Knight could/would kill an average Pit Lord without much problem, especially considering the most powerful pit-lord ever repeatedly gets his ass-kicked by an arms warrior.
@doronsmovies you forgot that arthus was weakened heavly before fighting illidan at the frozen throne in warcraft 3 due to illidans forces attacking the lich kings prison of ice . lore wise its been spoke of that death knights are far stronger and more powerful than due to them being highly trained warriors paladins and assasians then raised as deathknights and they are just as skilled as demon hunters combat wise its argued that death knights are more powerful than demon hunters due to the magics used to empower them as the death magic used is more powerful than the fel chaos magic used by demon hunters due to them only being able to use hafe the power the demon had and those are words from chris metzen one of the creators of world of warcraft
Arthas defeated Illidan and wasnt even yet at his strongest. DHs specialise in fighting demons not people. DK fight the living and have skills to augment that. If you say DK and DH against demons who does better against demons - than its DH. If its DH vs DK DK wins. That said i watch most of your videos and i have to say for someone having their content oriented so much on the Lore you get a LOT of lore wrong and its painfull that you spread the minsinformation so hard. Now if you male oppinion statements thats one thing but you tend to sell your oppinions as fact and thats very bad practise. You want some lore on DK vs DH? DKs are nott he same, theres 4 generations of them with the third generation being the potentially strongest while the second is the rarest. a few feats Dks have that put them way above DH - they literally can not get tired, exhausted, drown, fatigue or anything due to being undead - they wear Saronite armor, which IN LORE is near impenetrable to weapons AND MAGIC ALIKE - its IN LORE the best armor there is - they can mindcontrol, summon or create minions - they have superhuman strength, reflexes and are insanely tough to kill as they are magicly upgraded upon creation and cant be killed unless you decapitate them so you cant injure them either - 3rd Gen DKs are all batle hardened veterans of the second war - they wield rune blades that can literally suck out someones soul by mere touch - i want to stress that all the cool skills like lasereyes DHs have...WONT WORK ON 3rd Gen DKS AT ALL due to magic immunity that includes fel So in short the demon hunters have NOTHING - to beat a DK IN LORE Meanwhile DKs have multiple things that give them quite the edge against DHs. DHs are specialised to defeat demons and they are very good at that but again....SPECIALISED to fight DEMONS and nothing else. So your 6 out of 10 times DH wins is pure fanboy mode without any realistic assesmen or lore correctness. Am i fanboying for DKs? Well i dont like DKs or DHs. Im a mage player and think myself unbiased in this one
I think you are fanboying dks actually. They are not as powerful as you say and they most certainly are not immune to magic if the spell is strong enough.
@@incadeptus according to LORE saronite - which is the material that a) only DKs CAN wear as thes are immune to the old gods whipsers due to the LK overpowering them, makes the wearer IMMUNE to magic. thats the lore.
I have to disagree though I’m not as into DK lore as much, there has to be very little I by know at least something about when it comes to DH. With that being said. Demon hunters were trained to fight the burning legion, not just demon hunters and while demon are the main consistency of the burning legion they are not the entirety. The burning legion had to have used necromancy in abundances in most of not all battles. Again death knights are solely a Lich King tool and thus I won’t say that DH were a common thing in the Burning Legion. However Illidan did lose to Arthus (despite power and experience) and in no way could you convince me that Illidan did not train his demon hunters on how to at least combat demon hunters. Now I would like to comment on your list of reasons why DK are “better”. Granted DK are undead. I appreciate the fact that you acknowledge that a lot of people don’t. However IN GAME DK do have a breathe bar while underwater and while I’ve never personally died from drowning I can only assume that if that bar is expended they die. I bring that up because this discussion was about the player character version of DK vs DH. Armor, no matter how impenetrable armor may be it still does have its weakness and it’s n no way makes you invincible to physical attacks. That’s more historical fact than in-game logic but I’d have to believe they based this off of real life logic soooo. Minions, dh are train to fight hordes of not mindless zombies but blood drunk capable warriors that may die as easily but have the ability to think instead of having to be told how to be useful. Demon hunters have the ability to pull on the strength, speed, reflexes and other attributes of their demons and thus can match if not surpass the DK in many if not all abilities of the body. While I can’t speak on bloodelf versions of the demon Hunter I can say that at least some of the night elves were vets of the ancient wars spanning over ten thousand years ago. Second war that’s where the blood elves (or high elves as there known at the time) can pull from experience from. So with that being said I have to apologize but DK do not have more battle experience than DH. Demon Hunter do not have anything special to fight Death Knights with you are right. They’re train to fight demons of the burning legion. So let’s break this down if you will the burning legion consist of some of the strongest magic users in the cosmos. The Eredar warlocks are beyond masters of what they do and still have little chance one on one with a Demon Hunter. The legion consist of small, large, flying, swimming, smart stupid, four legged, four armed, and yes undead warriors of all make. I grant you DK are excellent warriors very difficult to face, but if from their experience with the burning legion can’t be pulled from to combat the DK then I concede the point. In closing I won’t say that every DH will destroy a DK I won’t even say every DH will Win against every DK. To sit here and say that DH has no chance against a DK common fam let’s be real here.
You do realize nerzhul was giving arthas everything he had left to help him get to the frozen throne and illidan just got out of a 10,000 year imprisonment fighting with blades he had just gotten before he got jailed so both were handicapped in that fight and in terms of general dks and dhs the dks ability to not run out of gas and heal wounds would be negated by the fel from the demon hunters attacks and their saronite armor would protect them better than most armor but wouldn't be able to negate alot of the damage from fel attacks it's been proven on multiple occasions that fel trump's old god power so before you go pulling the lore card actually do the research
As the person above me stated, Fel is an extremely volatile and dangerous magic which will can penetrate anything. That's the magic Sargeras used to defeat all the other Titans if you don't remember. People underestimate how powerful the Burning Legion and the demons really are. If DH's can fight powerful demons wielding Fel and amped by Sargeras, they sure as hell can fight death knights.
I just want to highlight the fact in the second dual with Arthur, illidan was greatly weakend due to an event in auchindoun. I believe this was mentioned in chronicles. So, even when Illidan was not in his full strength, he still proved he was quite the challenge for Arthur.
arthas was weakened also due to the lich kings powers waining, so still the same outcome most likely. i remember during that part of the campaign arthas kept delvling per chapter so most likely he was in a weaker state then even illidan. blizz prob left it vague like that just so people could debate about it until the ends of the earth, you hear me, to the ends of the earth!
@@Abionx Here's the comment of someone else that resume why Arthas vs Illidan is not a good exemple: "Most people on the comment sections seem to oversee certain lore bits on dhs, which is understandable as gameplay wise dh is quite limited, for the sake of balance-Which goes for most casters as well like mages and warlocks. -Some of the dhs actually use demonsteel made glaives they are quite similar to saronite in certain aspect and as far as metal goes they are quite capable, not saying it can pierce through saronite mind you but it can certainly damage a dk (not the armor) -Dh's are made to fight demons--Yes that's the base idea doesn't mean they aren't any good at fighting other things. People only seem to see dhs as faster and stronger humanoids. But dhs senses are also enchanted actually, not just speaking about specteral sight (which mind you makes them able to see magic being casted before the spell is finished casting things like strangulate, frost spells etc) but also they are told to be really good at reacting, being able to see all around them (illidan novel even mentions them being able to see behind them) and having an extremely sharp sense of touch where they could feel even the slightest hint of imperfection. -On top of this another major pointer seem to be: "Dh's can bleed and die but dks are undead." and "Dh's have soul damaging weapons" So far only frostmourn seem to be soul damaging hence the word mournblade. On another note, dhs can and DO use magic and they DO drain the souls and damage them as well, during a duel between dhs in the illidan novels, dhs even use the bits of souls they drain to heal themselves. So just like how a dk can cut their foes and heal themselves via blood magic, dhs can do something akin with souls, which is quite useful against a dk given they are quite resistant to regular injuries due to being an undead. -Frost to slow dhs, sure that's a valid tactic, on the counter argument dhs can engulf themselves in fel fire, which burns much hotter than regular fire and can't be put out by regular means actually. One of the few methods to douse fel fire is by using arcane magic to enchant water (water elementals also work, dalaran quest from legion.) So it can be used to counter frost, further more means dhs don't really have to pierce the armor to hurt the dh. -Dh's also heal very fast on their own, they have wolverine like healing factor and are as strong as ogres. Vendal (a new dh intiate) is said to be able to shatter boulders with mere daggers, and at one point gets wounded by Maive herself, and gets his skull cracked up. He passes out and wakes up in the morning FULLY healed. On his own, without using any magic. -Dh's in lore uses magic, offensively AND defensively. It is mentioned yet not limited to fel bolts, and even sheeths of 'darkness' to put off the blows from weapons. (During spars they also cover their glaives with magic to make them blunt and none fatal) I dare say both dk and dh counter each other quite well, fel fire=dk frost magic, blood magic healing=soul sucking healing, undead fortitude=fel fire/soul draining etc, it genuinly depends on the match up on this class...Which I rarely say when it comes to wow match ups. Just wrote this because most people in the comments seem to be going by what the in game skills are, rather than the actual lore implications! On a last grip, if anyone wishes to use Arthas beated Illidan though (I do adore Arthas, but let's be real), that's quite specific. First of all, they are not regulars, these two are essentially 'hero' characters. Secondly, Arthas had the strongest of the mournblades that was crafted by the literal gods of death x'D that was made to be used against other gods of death and steal their divine sigils...Not every dk has a frostmourn, Illidans warglaives were just looted from doomguard (albeit commander) while potent they are nowhere near on frostmourn tier. Number 3: Books stated that given Lich King knew that it was his last chance, he poured all his power into Arthas during the fight, again, something that doesn't happen to all dks xD"
All the points were right, but Illidan was basically the CHOSEN ONE, on top of him being an insanely skilled Arcane Mage before becoming a DH. Personally I think they'd kill each other, the DK with slow or stop their movement and send in their ARMY of Undead, and the DH would eye beam everything and while dying cut a DK down.
Aaalso there are no random DKs lore wise they are only the TOP OF THE TOP we are talking lore wise the rest are just undead but DK in contrast to DH is not some random person who is going to tray it the DK is a total champion of the Alliance or Horde that posabbly without beaing DK will kick the ass of a DH so really you do not know shit
2:42 Those created by Arthus are the second generation of Death-Knights, right? I like the kind made by Arthus much more than the ones that I think were made by Gul-Dan putting warlock souls in dead Paladin bodies.
@@darkblad3359 . I believe I read in a manga that the more a DK kills with their rune weapon, the more powerful they become. Or am I mistaken? I never played those games and don't have any way of doing so.
@@darkblad3359 . Alright then. I wish everything in WOW was real so I could become the ultimate Death Knight or undead warlock. Although I would hope Sylvanas could make sure I don't decompose.
one thing i just realized if blizzards going to be making all classes playable by all races at somepoint how the hell are those tiny ass wings going to hold up a tauren lol
anyway theory aside...lol DH's can't get away from dk's. They try...but they get death gripped and shackled and etc. I've seen it so many times in bg's. They are forced to stand and fight and if they aren't Vengeance they don't last.
Illidan was only able to stand up to Arthas because he got the skull of Gul Dan and he was born with way more potential than the typical demon hunter. Death knights were already the best of the best work potentially far more experience on the battlefield and they can negate most magic including fel. Also death knights can self heal.
Also Frostmourne acts as a direct extension of Arthas. During his fights with uther and illidan they were both stronger than him. But once he let the sword guide him he beat them both.
Weakened pre lich king Arthas violated an powered up illidan, so no diff Also when people talk "Average dk vs Average dh" there is no such thing, Arthas purged all weak or Average dk's when he was the lich king. The more or less same with illidan, since most dh apprentices died because the training/fel Magic so the ones who survived where the elite. Conclusion : Death Knights can either chill or drain Demon Hunters blood to obliterate then.
Arthas was weakened the 2nd time they fought and in the original wc3 game there was no "Illidan was overpowering and winning" that I recall. This was later retconned to make Illidan look better than he was since he was coming back and the Dh was becoming a playable class. Arthas at full power would beat Illidan without a doubt. He would command an endless army and wait until Illidan tired out.
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I’m slightly leaning DK’s here. I know DH’s are faster and more agile, but DK’s have many abilities to negate their mobility. Chains of ice would slow them down, and death grip would keep them from flying away. Both are powerful, but I think the DK’s take more damage without dying.
Demon Hunter: *Flies*
Death Knight: *Uses Death Grip or Strangulate to catch them*
remember that like its yesterday when I was playing World of Warcraft Legion five years ago.
Or gargoyle and deseases :p
DH's use Illidan's grasp which grabs the opponent, and throw them away.
@@davidcosta2244 deaths advance
@@davidcosta2244 isn’t their a dh skill that traps their enemy look looks like a green circle jail
Pretty much like the video, but I really disagree with some points.
Illidan was considered gifted among the elves, an exception. And he went further, he studied magic, was trained as a druid to follow Cenarius, was trained as a Knight (serving Ravencrest), was personally empowered by Kil'jaeden. Also, he was greatly empowered by fel magic when he consumed the skull of Gul'dan. In other words: he is really far from an average night elf demon hunter.
Arthas was trained as a paladin, but got transformed into a death knight, kinda like any death knight, except Arthas was trained by Uther and then got hold of frost mourne. Frostmourne is indeed one of the most OP swords we see in the game, but only when fully empowered by souls, which was not the case at the time he fought Illidan. So yeah, Illidan got beat out and has no excuses except the "unfair fighting location".
Anyways, cool video, i'll check out the others.
I was going to say the same, the power gap between Illidan and an normal demon hunter must be quite big.
Your forgetting that nerzhul was giving arthas everything he had power wise and frostmourne was empowered by souls at that time you really think arthas wasn't collecting souls from illidans army as he was pushing his way to the frozen throne? Also illidan at the time was still learning to use his glaives to their full potential along with the fact he couldn't train or practice for 10,000 years and still was evenly matched they both had incredible power behind them but they both also had factors hindering them
@@shdwfxgamerz7667 Arthas was weakened when they fought the 2nd time though and he still won.
@@silverspear21 no he wasn't he himself states nerzhul restored his full powers when he emerged from the nurebian empire when he was talking to can't remember his name but the traitor king then when they finally got closer to the glacier nerzhul tells arthas he's giving everything he has to him to get to the throne
Anuburak that's his name
When a DH says "We sacrifice everything, what have you given?" To a DK it like "really?...really? I'm dead!"
they didnt voluntarily do it. Demon hunters did.
Sacrificing is volunterely giving something. DK's didn't give anything, it was taken from them. Big difference
@@KomaEU but they still had a great loss.
@@KomaEU isn't they gave their lives protecting their own from the scourge only for them to brought back and suffer?
@@KomaEU they gave up their last breath fighting an invincible fow
Yeah, I gotta disagree with the conclusion. I think the DK pulls ahead of the DH in a fight due to the abilities they have. DH's are built to deal with their opponents in quick successive strikes while evading blows from their opponents. In other words, DH's are meant for a brief, intense fight.
DK's on the other hands are literally built to keep that fight running for a long while. They do not tire or feel pain. Their armor and undead nature means quick killing blows are not as successful against them. Their magic degrades their opponent's vitality and stamina the longer the fight goes on AND can be used to root their opponent in place so the DK *can* deliver one of their big heavy blows.
All of these traits would be extremely problematic for a Demon Hunter as it practically counters their own training. Granted, the DH is a very skilled combatant and has centuries of experience so it wouldn't be an easy win for the DK. But I'm fairly certain that in most scenarios, the Death Knight will put down a Demon Hunter.
Hallelujah!... ekhm... I mean .. let terror reign!
I agree with this also Arthas reason to attack the world was to get his undead army to counter the legion no way the death knights werent meant to be a counter vs the demons And dorons also forgot that illidan absorbed the skull of guldan ''witch was at the level of frostmourn'' according to the lore since it guldan had alot of knowledge/power that sargeras shared with him
You tried rooting a DH in PvP as a DK? They can vengeful retreat chains and reverse magic ice roots so can easily escape. And just because they're trained to fight with quick successive strikes, doesn't mean they lack the stamina needed for longer fights, especially if you take their "leech" into account, which revitalises them by hitting their enemies. Plus there's demon form, which boosts their strength, speed, durability and healing even more. I honestly don't think there's a clear answer and you could debate it endlessly and would ultimately depend on individual skill/experience or writing.
wasn't centuries of training when you realize they only been training so long as Illidan crossed over to the outlands that's when he started training them wasn't centuries of training mack, gotta pay attention to those time lines, Illidan was the only demon hunter in existence til he started training new ones in outland
@@Vinyls77 this video is based on arguemnts of LORE not in game. In lore leech wouldn't work on a Death Knight as they are undead and have no life force to leech. The opposite is true though, DH's are alive still and the DK can definitely leech their life force. Also DK snares are NOT magic in nature, they use literal frigind wind and ice to freeze their surroundings and opponents, you cannot reverse that. DK basically is made to be an endurance fighter which as the poster above said, in practice counters a swift brawler like a DH.
Just realized something, DK (abilities) vs DH (abilities)
Loki, “I have an Army.”
Tony, “We have the Hulk.”
After shadowlands id say DKs are stronger. Death magic is versatile and op af.
Yeah but this "death magic" that dks use originates from fel...
Which originates from Death via Nathrezim...@@BrokenxPvP
DKs win . They were made to kill everything , have unlimited stamina, feel nothing and can keep going forever lorewise . DHs are really good at killing demons but that’s it ^^
@@cultured956 pit Lords have different abilities. Demon Hunters are made to fight demons, so it's only natural they could defeat one and even then, not always.
Death Knights are built differently, they steal and decay the enemies life-force, they use sickness, necromancy and all kinds of other more versatile abilities.
Dh would be a difficult fight, for sure, but a Dk would probably win most of times because they are walking tanks with all kinds of different abilities that could counter a Dh
@@NarutoIIPrayer I feel that demon hunters are more versatile than most give credit to. They are not merely made to fight demons but are made to fight the burning legion, that means all kind of necromancy, life-force stealing, and underhanded spells... not only they will resist magic if got hit, but are able to counter the enemy magic and empower themselves by doing so.
@@alctry That I can agree with, plus the demon force also makes them stronger in some cases. But it's hard to say, maybe I'm just super biased, but sometimes you can win against a huge monster but lose to a human, you know? Because, like the video says, Dks have a lot of stamina and are more experienced in fighting "humanoid", humans, elves, orca, taurens and so on.
One is specialised in fighting all kinds of demons, while the other is specialised in death in general
@@NarutoIIPrayer I agree, it's a close fight that will be determined by the individual experience of the contestants ^^
The DK vs DH lore battle goes like this.
Wide shot of DK walking through a forest with a blur jumping in the trees. DK knows something is there but does not know what it is. DH speeds up and goes for an assassination blow on the DK. DK gets hit with what seems like a killing blow falls the ground.
DH says "all to easy" cut to DK getting up restoring themselves with blood magic. The following fight ensues with DH trying everything they can not able to penetrate the DK, DH dodging the DK blows by milliseconds each time. Then DK empowers their rune weapon casting magic, ice summoning ghols and blood minions and anti magic deflecting any magical abilities the DH is now using as they transform into metamophasis bombarding the DK with insane fel and magical abilities.
Cut to wide shot of the DK being fine and being protected by an anti magic zone. Cut back to DH landing after using insane amounts of magic looking to catch their breath, they look at their skin and body and notice that they have been rotting away being infected by a plauge and disease while they were dueling the DK in melee as they start to rot in real time.
From there the DH can either light themselves ablaze with fel magic to purge what they can and escape or rot and die. Either way this is how a fight would go down.
Totally agree, love this
The situation seems really thought out
Props😁
I think the gap between Illidan and an average DH is far larger than you suggested. He was already a talented arcane user and utilized the Skull of Gul’dan to gain a kind of strength I doubt the rest have.
Not to mention he was empowered by Sargeras himself!
true but since dhs consume the demons they kill, they have far greater potential to increase their own strenght compared to dks.
So is the gap between Arthas and other death knights.
@@drfate7863 The gap is larger but the gap between Illidan and other DH is bigger for sure.
Illidan ate skull of guldan and born gifted sorcerer, comparing average elves to him makes little sense. On the other hand, Arthas was rather average paladin/fighter, your average fallen hero was much greater than his own paladin self.
To compare average death knights to Arthas is same as comparing average demon hunters to Illidan my dude. I mean Arthas was on Ner'zhul steroids, and we know how Ner'zhul was in life and death when it comes to power level
@@HlghV0LTag3 read again please,
idk bout arthas being a average fighter but the rest yeah, same with illidan, they both seemed to be top tier fighters in the lore.
they were like 2 different jaime lannisters of their time (were they the best? no, but they were top of the pyramid by what we seen from them before they became a dk/dh).
People talk shit about Illidan due to his loss to the Fallen Prince, but tend to forget the fact that he was the only person to survive getting hit by the Frostmourne. Other super powerful characters like Uther, Sarufang Jr., Antonidas, Anasterian, Sylvanas etc. were literally deleted from existence by Frostmourne-wielding Arthas. So yeah Illidan was on a god-like power level. Which means an average DH is not nearly close to him same goes to average DK compared to Arthas.
@@klocper never realised he's the only being that survived a blow of frostmourne but yes you are damn right
Most people on the comment sections seem to oversee certain lore bits on dhs, which is understandable as gameplay wise dh is quite limited, for the sake of balance-Which goes for most casters as well like mages and warlocks.
-Some of the dhs actually use demonsteel made glaives they are quite similar to saronite in certain aspect and as far as metal goes they are quite capable, not saying it can pierce through saronite mind you but it can certainly damage a dk (not the armor)
-Dh's are made to fight demons--Yes that's the base idea doesn't mean they aren't any good at fighting other things. People only seem to see dhs as faster and stronger humanoids. But dhs senses are also enchanted actually, not just speaking about specteral sight (which mind you makes them able to see magic being casted before the spell is finished casting things like strangulate, frost spells etc) but also they are told to be really good at reacting, being able to see all around them (illidan novel even mentions them being able to see behind them) and having an extremely sharp sense of touch where they could feel even the slightest hint of imperfection.
-On top of this another major pointer seem to be: "Dh's can bleed and die but dks are undead." and "Dh's have soul damaging weapons" So far only frostmourn seem to be soul damaging hence the word mournblade. On another note, dhs can and DO use magic and they DO drain the souls and damage them as well, during a duel between dhs in the illidan novels, dhs even use the bits of souls they drain to heal themselves. So just like how a dk can cut their foes and heal themselves via blood magic, dhs can do something akin with souls, which is quite useful against a dk given they are quite resistant to regular injuries due to being an undead.
-Frost to slow dhs, sure that's a valid tactic, on the counter argument dhs can engulf themselves in fel fire, which burns much hotter than regular fire and can't be put out by regular means actually. One of the few methods to douse fel fire is by using arcane magic to enchant water (water elementals also work, dalaran quest from legion.) So it can be used to counter frost, further more means dhs don't really have to pierce the armor to hurt the dh.
-Dh's also heal very fast on their own, they have wolverine like healing factor and are as strong as ogres. Vendal (a new dh intiate) is said to be able to shatter boulders with mere daggers, and at one point gets wounded by Maive herself, and gets his skull cracked up. He passes out and wakes up in the morning FULLY healed. On his own, without using any magic.
-Dh's in lore uses magic, offensively AND defensively. It is mentioned yet not limited to fel bolts, and even sheeths of 'darkness' to put off the blows from weapons. (During spars they also cover their glaives with magic to make them blunt and none fatal)
I dare say both dk and dh counter each other quite well, fel fire=dk frost magic, blood magic healing=soul sucking healing, undead fortitude=fel fire/soul draining etc, it genuinly depends on the match up on this class...Which I rarely say when it comes to wow match ups. Just wrote this because most people in the comments seem to be going by what the in game skills are, rather than the actual lore implications!
On a last grip, if anyone wishes to use Arthas beated Illidan though (I do adore Arthas, but let's be real), that's quite specific. First of all, they are not regulars, these two are essentially 'hero' characters. Secondly, Arthas had the strongest of the mournblades that was crafted by the literal gods of death x'D that was made to be used against other gods of death and steal their divine sigils...Not every dk has a frostmourn, Illidans warglaives were just looted from doomguard (albeit commander) while potent they are nowhere near on frostmourn tier. Number 3: Books stated that given Lich King knew that it was his last chance, he poured all his power into Arthas during the fight, again, something that doesn't happen to all dks xD
Cant really use Arthas vs Illidan because both were exceptional. No DH is as strong as Illidan and no DK is as strong as a lich king empowered Arthas.
As for the ignoring dh lore, same goes for DKs and pretty much every other class existing in the game. Otherwise mages and warlocks would go around busting whole planets no problem
@@Xalocin aye hence why I included some lore bits for DHS. Dks lore and capabilities are better represented in game
Demon Hunters are more powerful because they can use the Fel which is the most powerful magic in warcraft Lore. It penetrates and corrupts everything.
Do DK's have a soul to feast upin tho?
@@tftg458 They do, yes.
I'm with the Ebon Blade here. The Illidari are the best when it comes to fighting Fel-based creatures, but a necromancer is something entirely else, no matter if their magic originates from the Fel.
It does not originate from fel tho haha look at the cosmology chart
Exactly, Fel magic > all. Sargeras used Fel to defeat all other Titans, it overpowered them. Demons wield Fel magic, DHs beat demons, so safe to say DHs can beat death knights.
LMFAO necromancy magic doesn’t come from fel, and fel is more powerful than it. There’s a reason why the legion uses fel and not necromancy as it’s primary magic.
@@incadeptus pretty much, if not for plot purposes Arthas wouldn’t had beat Illidan. Never made any sense, some kid around his 30’s with a rune blade can beat a warrior that lives for thousands of years then empower drastically by fel magic.
And there is a reason why the Lich King cultivated such magic, he wasn't just into conquering Azeroth, he wanted a way to fight the demonic fel as well. Undead are actually pretty good against fel magic as for example fire is more effective against flesh rather than bones. And the same goes for soul based attacks, mana burns etc.
I disagree. DKs can slow them down with frost moves. And also wear demon hunter out so they get tired
Everybody keeps mentioning the armor. Nobody gives a fuck about the armor when you got a chaos damage eye beam. Chaos damage lore wise is literally pure damage.
Before you say, yes death knights have anti magic spells. Nobody gives a shit, chaos damage burns through all. Remember Tirion getting blasted through his pals bubble which literally makes someone invulnerable.
antimagic shield-
This type of videos is great! Would like to see more classes compared.
This is kind of a star wars fight where youre fighting against Vader, DKs don’t care how quick an opponent is when you have grip, an ability to literally crush their throat, you have ice shakles, and as for metamorhosis you’re a huge target and you do lose some speed so yeah i think DKs are a bit more superior
Vengeance DH's have Illidan's Grasp, and can do that, plus throw them away from themselves.
@@davidcosta2244 dk are immovable. They cant be slowed or stopped "like death it self" in game it represented with 'death advance'
People keep mentioning demon hunters being able to fight pit lords as a clear win for them.
Meanwhile the leader of the pit lords have been slain twice by a half-naked orc with an axe.
third generation death knights are trained in blood, frost and unholy.
They suck the life force of things around them, freezes the air around them while raising minions.
They don't get tired, they don't feel pain, they can repair themselves through necromancy.
DH and DK were training to fight the burning legion.
DKs are made to counter demons, DHs became demons in order to fight other demons.
I'm giving the edge to death knights.
Funny as these are my 2 favorite classes because I love arthas and illidan so much
I’m definitely an illidan fanboy. But I’ll say I think death knights probably win. Ok now to watch the video ^_^
Literal unstoppable killing machines wielding soul-damaging runeblades versus fel powered mortal demon hybrids. You can look at demon hunters as enhanced soldiers, the Fel gives them speed and agility, but they still bleed, feel pain, where as death knights don't. If their frost magic won't stall em, the diseases will, as will them tearing at the very souls of the demon hunters.
The downside of DHs is they were specialized to fight demons, death magic however is on a whole different level. I doubt DHs could even pierce DK armor, it's forged and runed, and the older armor was made of saronite, blood of an old god.
DH tatoos give them resistance to the strongest of magic. it can stop high caliber fel magic which in the Lore is the strongest type magic bar non. So I think DH can stop DK's frost and shadow magic which is even weak compared to a note able warlock's shadow magic or a mage's frost magic. the problem seems to be is the DK can't hit the DH and the DH seemingly can't hurt the DK. until the demon hunter transfroms into a demon . So now the DK is even losing the strength and durability advantage also. So the DH just cut their head off with their demonsteel made glaives they are quite similar to saronite so the dk's armor is going to give because even undead things have limits.
@@naquan59 Why would DKs lose the strength advantage? Quite the opposite,, their strength has no limit, same for their durability. They never grow tired or weak, they have no mortal/living traits.
Nor is there anything to suggest ''demonsteel'' would cut through runeforged armor which is designed to be nigh impenetrable by physical blows so it's fair to assume there would be no head cutting.
DKs do not expire as they are not even alive, but fueled by death magic, where as DHs rely only in the power they absorbed during their tranformation ritual, the demon inside, they are not like Warlocks who draw power from the Nether.
I simply do not see this going in the favor of DHs, they do eventually expire and die due to the power they use in prolonged fights unless they have a source to refuel from.
DK for sure. They’re some of Azeroth’s, most powerful warriors turned into undead killing machines wrapped in full plate armour. A DH in full demon metamorphosis might be a problem but most illidari would get destroyed imo.
Man I still doubt it, dh are made to fight foes stronger than an average dk like pit lords and nathrezims
@@illidantempestira6729 They're bigger, not necessarily stronger.
i'd say DKs would win because they are made to kill everything, while DH's are only made to kill demons and specialize in that
Also even if they were completely comparable in power, the Death Knights simply are more in numbers. All races of Azeroth vs just Elves? Yeah, there's really no discussion.
That's such a shit argument, DK kill EvErThInG, DH kill one thing
@@darbysplash No it's valid. Think about it, if you're a real life serial killer, you still couldn't take on a raging bull coming at you. Military forces have the means to do so though.
@@newgaim that still isn't a good argument, the video is one dh, vs, one dk. Nothing to do with numbers. Personally I don't care about either of the two winning, but saying "oNe KiLl EvErYtHiNg" is a shit argument no matter what side you're routing for.
DH are made to destroy the burning legion so killing everything is in their ranks, and that's a lot xD
Other demon hunters are nothing like Illidan. On one hand he is the "chosen one" of the light, with insane magical potential, on the other he became part demon through harvesting of the skull of gul'dan, while other DHs get their power from random demons. However the comparison can be made between Arthas (as a dk not the lich king) and other death knights in terms of power level (putting aside frostmourne ofc)
Actually first of all he was empowered by Sargeras first, before getting a power boost from I think Kil and then the Skull of Gul Dan,
One thing I find interesting is the fact that both of these classes were intended to fight the legion eventually. Arthas believed that an undead army made up of all the inhabitants of azeroth would be needed in order to beat the legion when it would inevitably return.
That being said, I do think death knights would win in a lore scenario considering how absolutely broken they are in it. Sure, DHs are meant to fight demons, but they still feel pain, still get tired, and their minds can be broken even after they lived through their initiation.
tbh Demon hunters replenish off souls and if amassed in a group can just constantly harvest DK souls. but Dk's simply win in an all-out war due to just numbers. however DH's have been fighting for a significantly longer time then most if not majority of death knights after all these are elves from tons of different ages
@@Vikrampic123 DK's can also heal themselves using the DH''s blood, so it would be a battle of attrition. The point in Arthas making deathknights was to revive the best fighters he ever faced into weapons of the scourge and I imagine Bulvar is continuing that sort of filtering process, so they wouldn't be taken out so easily.
@@TimeyWimey. I'd say it simply depends on the playing field And whatever specialization of demon hunter and Death knight they are. I'd say Havoc Can def overpower a frost DK but I don't think demon hunters have resistance towards the runic diseases a unholy DK can throw out
@@Vikrampic123 actually I'd say unholy would probably be easiest for them to fight compared to the other two specs. All dks have the ability to slow opponents but frost is the best at it, which negates the DH's main advantage. Unholy on the other hand gives a DH a lot of fodder and a lot of souls (if the minions have souls, which idk).
Frost dks just suck in game, but in lore they should be pretty brutal to fight.
While I would agree that demon hunters are the more "elite" force, I think the deciding factor is not their actual melee prowess but their respective abilities. At first glance it might seem like demon hunters would have an edge with their superhuman speed and strength, and they would, except for the fact that death knights are literally designed to negate that sort of thing. Apart from their necromantic abilities they almost exclusively use abilities that limit what their opponent can do with things like chains of ice, strangulate, death grip, asphyxiate, there is no running around and dodging forever against a death knight. It's true that they are slower than demon hunter as a baseline, but it doesn't matter if they can just bring them down to their level, and it doesn't matter if the demon hunters still land a few more hits, the dks can just heal themselves and eventually they will outlast them.
But DH are designed to resist magic, and can use their own to restrain a DK just for that short time to land a critical blow (while metamorphosed they have quite the explosive strenght too) and let the duel end quickly. I would like to add that if necessary the demon hunter could easily flee from the battle, while the death knight would have no way to.
Illidan recieved a major power increase when he consumed the skull of gul'dan. He was able to defeat Tichondrius after, he actally says that he can be more powerful than any Archimonde soldiers. However when Illidan fights Arthas, the death knight was fully empowered by the powers of the Lich King. It says in the cinematic before final mission.
Yes, but atbtyat point Arthas and Ner'zul were bith heavily weakened.
That os why Arthas was empowered. It was out of desperation.
Doron you can’t use the argument that demon hunters can solo pit lords. Considering in the Demon hunter video in legion, it took a bunch of demon hunters to take on a Pitlord, with Illidan being the exception. As it would for in most cases a death knight would. But death knights have more advantages then Demon hunters, also depends on the race. Like a night elf Dk would more and likely be more knowledgeable against glaives. Also in a battle of attribution a Death knight would win hands down, since they don’t tire and the can drain life to sustain themselves. The only reason why their was so few Demon hunters was partly because we killed them all as Adventurers and also the fact that Illidan didn’t trust very many people. While the 3rd Death knights of the Ebon blade, were personally trained by Arthas and his most elite death knights. While 4th Gen one’s were more just bodies or cannon fodder to fight against the Jailer’s forces in the shadowlands. Which was said along the lines in a novel before shadowlands took place. Considering the 4 horseman brought up, that they didn’t even get trained, when they compared to the 3rd Gen dks. Given Arthas did use the Ebon blade as sacrificial lambs to get Tirion out, probably banking on that the Ebon Blade wouldn’t break from his control or any sacrifice was worth it, as long as he got Tirion.
Dks regeneration isn't a factor since dhs fel negates their necromancy
See someone that has some sense in him lol thank u I was bout to write a complete essay on the lore between the 2 lol for all the peeps saying dhs would win in a fight against a death knight and if it was a quick fight still the dh would win lol like that makes 0 sense
@@shdwfxgamerz7667 no it doesn’t
@@shdwfxgamerz7667 where did u get that term of knowledge lol
@@Myriadid let's see here ingame, war of the ancient illidan rise of the horde, chronicles shadow bringers ,before the storm warcraft 3, illidan, the game manuels and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head so you were saying?
DKs win no question. DHs abilities like restraining demons, scouting them out with their eyes, and flying are pretty useless and all they'd have is their fighting prowess and eye beam. A quick fighter who oddly leaves their upper body exposed is kinda screwed against a heavily armored undead warrior who can summon mini armies, strangle people mid air, etc.
Anyone who agrees with DHs are like they guys in school who wore tapout shirts lol.
Why is everyone forgetting DH’s higher resistance to magic? “Oh Ice spells. Grip.” Etc DH’s also generate more power and energy to more damage they take.
Truthfully given the perfect situation, and as boring as it is, I’d call it a draw. This is a STRvDEX debate. “Yeah but DHs are agile and can dodge.” “DK’s have an Army, and one good strike can kill!” These are both very true.
But I agree with this video if the two fighting were fresh in their role. An Illidari would have to consume a demon to become a DH, a DK is just a raised soul the put on armor. Even if they were a fighter in the previous life, DH’s have the power of a demon fueling them. DH power spikes a lot earlier than DKs imo and they level off fairly well.
Nothing in the lore or in their abilities implies they are immune to magic to the point where it's not effective against them. Also. The death knight can summon extra rune blades or use unholy magic to rot away at their vitality and flesh. Even if they had some resistance to it, they wouldn't be completely immune. The death knight meanwhile IS immune to most magic attacks, an eye beam wouldn't do much against an anti magic shell or barrier.
@@xiii9154 Like I stated, it’s getting into semantics now. Majority of DH’s attacks are physical. And never did I say they were immune, but they have a BASELINE resistance to magic while DKs have a skill that makes them immune not a constant immunity to it. We can literally run circles around this topic unfortunately, why I said it would more than likely be a draw in the most standard or even extreme situations. I still stand by a newly titled of Death Knight (not newly raised, they just earned the title) versus a newly titled Demon Hunter (again they just consumed a demon soul and survived the transformation to be called Demon Hunter) in THIS situation only I strongly believe DHs would win hand, not by a landslide but it’s very possible for a DH to suffer the same defeat due to over confidence like Illidan but that’s another can of worms.
@@onedeadrogue5557 A higher resistance to magic doesn't mean they can not be grabbed by a shadowy hand made out of shadow magic, that's not how magic resistance works. It's referring to stuff like fire magic. And by how much is never stated lore wise. We can assume they have a somewhat better time with tanking hits from magic spells but aren't completely immune. That means disease would -still begin to whittle them down in a fight, just as a slower rate. The death knight HAS the ability to stretch out the fight. They're tanks.
The majority of the damage from the Death Knight will be physical in nature. From massive runeblades, axes and hammers, something that the demon hunter cannot I repeatcannot tank for. They do not have the armor, and it's coming from a class that also has superhuman strength.
Blood magic strengthens them and makes them more durable just in general, not just to magic but to all forms of damage. They also have the ability to summon extra rune blades in a fight in case they somehow start losing in a melee.
Death knights are by no means slow brutes. They can dodge if they need to.
There was even a talent in wotlk of increasing dodge chance in the unholy tree.
We also see Arthas dodging attacks from Iillidan.
So it's actually far worse for a DH in this situation. You have an opponent who has. 1. Better armor, the best in fact, plate, probably saronite. 2 Can dodge your attacks. 3. Can parry your attacks. 4 Your attacks, even if they get through all three of those, will still have little affect on their ability to keep fighting unless you cut off their head or arms. And if they're really adept at blood magic, they can probably regenerate their arms back even with some effort.
There is so much shit a demon hunter needs to go through. It's like pitting a Ninja or Assassin versus a Samurai. The assassin is really good at it's job but they won't be able to beat a samurai on a battlefield.
The only time I see the Demon Hunter winning is if they overwhelm the death knight in demon form, which I concede will give them a physical strength advantage, though not to significant degree, and is temporary and then cut off the death knight's head or destroy it another way.
And the death knight needs to fuck up for that to happen. So again, 7/10 in favor for the DK I think is fair, if not slightly too charitable to the DH.
@@xiii9154 I disagree entirely with Assassins vs Samurai… Assassins are literally Rogues. Stealth. Advantage Attacks. If anything it would be like a Cat vs Dog (minus size weight advantage)
Grip vs Imprison. Tank vs Tank. Plate vs Demonic Scales (reduces ALL damage taken Havoc is just MR). The both have increased dodge skills. They both have immunity skills. Again you’re leaving out so much, favoring the DK. Mind you I’m a Druid main and have no stake in this discussion so this will be my last post as I feel we’re going down the rabbit hole like I said. But if you want facts? DH has Meta vs DK has the undead.
Loki, “I have an Army.”
Tony, “We have the Hulk.”
Thanks for listening to my TedTalk
dk have their powers from the jailer
Wait correct me if i'm wrong but isn't arthas weakened when he faced illiddan? Like he was weakening that was why he was rushing the frozen throne... right?
But just before he faces illidan ner'zhul does give him a last push of power to stand a chance
Now imagine a DH being brought back as a DK. I doubt they would retain their abilities, but what if?
can't say i agree but this was an interesting video compared to your last 10 or so giga clickbait videos which had no actual point, hope we get more of that in the future.
Using legion as a comparison and both class hall quest as i played and both, i prefer demon hunters rather then death knights, but worth noting is that the weaker death knights that you work with in actively state how easy it is for them to counter fel magic with their magic shields and resistance, and most of the death knight quest sees the death knights pretty easily solving any problem that comes there way, to the point that they even raided lights hope and were doing extremely well, until the light itself intervened in the battle. On the other side, the Demon Hunters do portray themselves as being these very powerful beings, but in the questlines of legion a lot of Demon Hunters ended up getting captured or even killed, as you do find a prison of them near nighthold. So it does paint them as not quite being the badasses that you describe them to be.
Here is the source of that belief from the WoWiki and the quest "The Dead and the Damned".
Travel to the citadel and assist Baron Sliver as he disables its barrier.
Citadel Barrier Disabled
Dagnar Stonebrow says: I'll be taking this for me self!
Dagnar equips the fel lord axe behind him and follows Sliver and the player as they run up the path to the southeast. Sliver pauses in front of an area scorched by "Fel Creep", which deals heavy Fire damage to characters who stand in it and slows their movement speed by 65%.
Dagnar Stonebrow says: What're ye waiting for? Get a move on!
Dagnar runs across the scorched area and is burned by the fire.
Dagnar Stonebrow says: Owwww!!! Owwww!!
Sliver instead uses [Anti-Magic Shell] before crossing.
Baron Sliver says: Fool! Has your mind rotted to dust? The Legion's magic is easily avoided.
Follow Sliver's example or use [Wraith Walk] to avoid taking damage as you pass over the scorched area.
Lich King beats Illidan, Death Knights beat DH. Them aside, DK's have much more badass characters like Alexandros Mograine and Nazgrim. Death Knights would win. Name a DH aside from Illidan that could take Nazgrim or Mograine out.... I'll wait.
My DH
Arthas only won because of Frostmourne which is one of the most powerful weapons ever. The oder dks dont have Frostmourne.
@@incadeptus My Death Knight got shadowmorune, and had apocalypse. Not to mention the twin blades made from shards of frostmorune. Most death knights uses rune weapon just like frostmourne, even if they are not that powerful they are still rune weapons. And not every demon hunter got to suck the power of skull of guldan in wc3.
@@ToneyCrimson You are confusing gameplay with lore. In lore only one dk champion got Shadowmourne and the runeblades, not every dk. My priest got a fucking Old God weapon called Xal'athat, but that doesn't make priests more powerful than dks.
@@incadeptus Ill take Nazgrim and Mograine over any DH not named Illidan.
Looks like alot more people disagree with you, but this was actually a much more interesting video than some of your recent ones. Thank you
Big problems with this argument. For one. You're discounting and downplaying the death knight a LOT. None of their abilities are mentioned. The ability to control disease and decay, to regenerate using blood magic, and slow their opponents as well as well as grip them near with death grips.
The only pro I will give the demon hunter is physical strength during demon form, which isn't that big of a difference since death knights are undead and anything but weak, and spell power such as eye beams, which the death knight has answers to via anti magic, where the demon hunter doesn't.
It comes down to who can outlast who, and the death knight has FAR more tools overall, where as the Demon Hunter is just a blunt ball peen hammer. Have you even considered the fact the death knight can summon extra floating rune blades to help deal with the demon hunter's strength and speed? What are they going to do about the disease? What will they do when the death knight starts to regenerate it's flesh with blood magic? What happens when the DK surrounds himself with frost magic and begins to freeze the Demon Hunter anytime it gets near? You didn't mention any of these things. The Death Knight has TONS of tools to deal with a Demon Hunter.
The pitlord argument calls flat because a pitlord is a far larger target as well as slower, and usually has large amounts of it's body unarmored. A death knight is by no means slow either as we see Arthas dodging those blades with impressive reflexes.
It would be a closer fight than usual, but I'd still give this to a death knight 7 times out of 10. The only time I see the demon hunter winning this is if he can end the fight quickly by incapacitating/killing the death knight with a beheading. The Death Knight doesen't need to aim for a specific part on the body of the Demon Hunter to do damage.
Extra blades -> spectral sight (360° field of vision as well as being able to see and recognize magic even before being fully casted);
Disease -> not entirely sure on this, but I think it can be resisted by their magic resistance since the disease is made with magic, and if necessary dispelled with reverse magic/consume magic (not how it works in the game ,but maybe in a lore scenario could be possible);
DK regeneration -> Demon hunters can damage and drain the soul, so while the DK regeneration is a bane to most classes, DH can bypass this entirely if needed. Edit: oh btw DH can negate the regeneration too as stated in the books "Vandel took advantage to stab his blades again and again into the dreadlord. The magic on the daggers cut his flesh, leaving rotting wounds that would not heal." cit. World of Warcraft: Illidan
The death knight surrounds himself with frost magic -> The demon hunters surrounds himself with fel fire
Death grips -> Illidan's grasp back to assert dominace >:D
All this being said I think is mostly based on experience from the fighters, and while DK have fought battles and can even be long living races (ironic since they are not living anymore xD) I think DH on average wins. So it's 7 times out of 10 but for DH imo :)
@@alctry Death grips would be able to be used repeatedly lore wise. Ilidan's grasp is just the demon hunter flipping back.
Spectral sight does NOT Give you a 360 degree line of sight. Nowhere in the lore is that stated. It allows you to see through walls and better sense your prey. Even if you were able to do that. Which you can't, that doesn't mean you can react in time, especially if you are busy with the death knight and then a rune blade comes in from behind. You'd have too many blades to keep track of. But you also can't even do that because that ability doesen't do what you say it does. wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Spectral_sight
wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Spectral_Sight
Death knights have the same soul sucking capacity as demon hunters, and their ability to regenerate their flesh is more potent given they can TAKE more damage in the first place.
Your book citation only refers to attacking a mortal or an alive character, not an undead using blood magic to counteract rot. Again, decay is Death Knight's domain, they can control and counteract it at their will. Blood magic would simply nullify it.
Death Knights Disease is made with magic but disease in itself is natural, and therfore cannot be resisted. That's like saying he can resist a massive glacier piece being impaled into him because it was summoned by magic. Even if they're resistant, that doesen't mean immune, and it would still mean they'd be gradually getting weaker and weaker as the fight went on.
The magic of the demon hunter would be completely useless against a death knight because they specialize in nullifying magic in the first place. That mean's the eye beam won't be able to be used effectively. The demon hunter has less ability to take damage, because they're mortal at the end of the day and require mortal things to survive, blood, sustenance, et cetera.
They also don't wear any more. Because they need to fight the death knight in a melee, they'll eventually get cut, and that means losing a limb. Something they can't deal with or bring back, where it doesen't mean anything to a death knight, and they can just use blood magic to repair their flesh and bone if it somehow becomes a problem. And they won't get through because of the heavy plate anyways.
The death knight can also boil their opponents blood, cause hearts to stop and explode and blood vessels to pop, and because demon hunters are still mortal and have fel blood, they that can be used against them.
The Death Knight wins the majority of the time. It's obvious who is stronger on average.
@@xiii9154 For the spectral sight there are some lines in the book (and sometimes in the game) that made me assume it was a 360 line of sight. But by quickly searching them I agree that are in grey area since it's not declared as seeing the demons (and demon hunters) but sensing them (At least the one I found by a quick research), so I will drop that for now ^^'
About the anti-healing rot, I would say it could work even if they are undead, we see that rotting is a primary concern for lesser undead and, while death knights are "built different" and can surely repair the damage, I don't think he will have the time to focus on it during a battle where the demon hunter can take advantage of a good opening. Remember that it worked on a dreadlord, blood magic is their thing too. What I want to say is that an average death knight, even by having all those option at his disposal, can't use them all at once, he will have to compromise between boiling the demon hunter's blood or countering the rotting for example.
@@alctry No, no. It's not a grey area, it's literally not a thing. Even if they were able to see in 360 degrees, that doesen't mean your body is adapted to being able to counter act strikes from all over in time.
Also, they don't need to focus on it, it literally takes seconds. The demon hunter has to get through is armor, he can take his time, rune taps and blood magic are instant casts, they don't need 'time' to do it they can do it on the fly.
A death knight can be worn down to a skeleton or even a spirit and be able to fight on still. ((Example being the black knight boss in Trial of the Champion.)) The disease would take a long time to work and again, rot is controlled by death knights, they could just stop it in it's track via their skill in necromancy.
A death knight literally controls death and decay, they're not just regular undead. You can't rot them away, they will control that rot because they are walking talking vectors of raw unholy power.
The death knight could do those things nearly instantaneously all whilst overwhelming a demon hunter by summoning extra rune blades and ghouls even if they needed to. The demon hunter would be at a disadvantage in a melee range because the death knight's two handed weapon would be hitting FAR harder, Especially since the demon hunter doesn't wear armor.
@@xiii9154 By saying that the DK would have to compromise, I meant as him having limits to the magic he can muster. Sure they have unlimited stamina but shouldn't have unlimited magic prowess too. They must have a limit, and that's why they have defeats like at light's hope chapel from other classes. I know light's hope chapel is a special place but you can change the name to whatever location a DK fought and lost; let's say the defeat in the broken isles at the beginning of legion... wasn't there at least 1 DK? couldn't he keep using his necromancy and blood magic to stay "alive" and win the battle?
What would change then from a strong DK and a weak DK? assuming they have the same battle experience, how can the strong one (let's stay Arthas, without frostmourne tho) win against another DK, both being the immovable object?
This text is a provocation, I know, but don't take it in a bad way, I mean no disrespect. I just feel like you are pairing a very good DK vs a bad DH. Remember that Vandel was a DH for about 1 month when he killed a Nathrezim (and a felhound, two Mo'arg and an imp that aided the Nathrezim, displaying good ability at countering strikes from multiple foes). And while the DHs don't wear armors, their skin/scales are able to make up for it.
Do drakthyr next!! :D
'' a single death knight cant bit a pit lord'' dh too, they need a group of dh including illidan itself to kill 1 pit lord.
I disagree with your conclusion. DK's can use death grip and strangulate to deal with the demon hunters speed (or chains of ice to slow them as well). They can also raise ghouls to fight the demon hunter as well, making the fight lobsided against the DH. On top of that they could litterally just infect the demon hunter with one of their plagues making them unable to fight at 100% (if at all)
I agree that DH's have more training and are propably more elite, but DK's just have way too much utility and magic for them to handle, simply by them being undead/a death knight.
Got to death battle channel ITS TIME FOR A DEATH BATTLEEEE
I think dk has a slight advantage, you got death grip, asphyxiate, and chains of ice to slow down that speed of a dh so speed is kind of pointless. You’re now talking about blade on blade metal on metal so with no pain being felt in a dk and the advantage of strength, almost seems outmatched
I'd say it is 50/50.
they are both powerful, hard to actually kill and command powers beyond normal means.
Arthas only won because of Frostmourne. The other dks don't have a Frostmourne so it will not be as easy as people say it will be for the dks. And their are NOT immune to magic, just have some protection against it. So a DH who has been a powerful sorcerer before his transformation can easily beat a dk. People forget DHs are extremely extremely old which is too much experience for the dks to handle.
Except not all demon hunters were sorcerer's before.
Dks hand picked. In lore there are like a 100 of them. They are the best of the best and just by power of will rejected the helm of domination. Dh are juiced up but are trained to take down specific things.
@@oommNG DHs are also thousands of years old and elves are usually the best warriors in every fiction. Demons are extremely powerful creatures that can easily beat the Death Knights. If DHs can beat them, you get the point.
@@incadeptus first of all elves in wow are just magic trolls. They are not super powerful physically. Arthas wiped them out with his undead army.
Secondly not all demons are so powerful a fel guard is like a scourge abomination power scaling.
And lastly, what about dk elves uhh?
@@oommNG Arthas wiped the high elves, not the night elves. There is a big difference between the two. Night elves are extremely powerful savages physically.
Well if you want to get technical warglaives tend to be curved.. curved blades aren’t great for penetrating plate armour so DH would struggle to damage a DK in melee
when your curved blades can end pit lords, plate armor sounds alot less reliable
@@lordlittletoeq8537 pit lords fight almost entirely naked and one the more powerful ones gets killed by an orc with an axe in multiple timelines.
I think that nobody would win most of the time, they are just too incompatible, the DH is too quick for the DK and the DK is too defensive and has infinite stamina. Most probably most fightws between the average of both would end in the DK retreating to archerus or the DH just flying away.
And for a fight to the death due to X, I think it would really go more towards DKs than DH, mainly because the DK can afford to make mistakes, the DH cannot.
Both DKs and DHs are elite, but DHs by lore should have the upper hand
For these 2 classes we dont need a who is stronger, we need a who is edgier
I would argue that DK's should be stronger since they have a much wider toolkit to lean on
In lore, can Death Knights take their armor on and off?
Do they and The Forsaken have a power cap.....or can you just keep getting more and more powerful after Undeath?
How do the undead move their bodies and deal with things like Rigor-Mortis?
How does undead reanimation of a corpse work in WOW lore?
Yes they can take their armor off.
They typically can’t get stronger due to dead tissue, but magical enhancement and replacing parts does work.
Undead are moved by dark/death magic, specifically the same kind that chains their soul to their corpse. It’s an imperfect connection however.
@@KiropLokiIncarnate . Thanks.
It's awesome they can take their armor off.
Now you said they can be magically enhanced and replace their body parts with the body parts of others........
but cannot get stronger the natural way because their muscles are dead?
So then are there any limits on the magic enhancement method?
If they find the corpse of a demon much stronger than themselves, can they just replace their own body parts with those of the dead demons and still be Death Knights after that?
It's notable that higher undead like Liches, DKs, Val'kyr and Dark Rangers are on an entirely different level to your everyday undead by the margin of not even close.
@@zombiedemon1762 As far as I can tell, there's no real upper limit to how strong magical enhancement can make someone, especially if they can replace parts of themselves. The issue then becomes one of cost- why spend ever higher amounts of mana and materials to strength an individual when a large group of sparser equipped fighters is better in every way except long term, sustained damage durability?
There's also the fact that Death Knights and Forsaken/regular undead are simply built different, namely in terms of their role within the Scourge and thus how much effort was spent on them.
As for your demon part question, I suppose they could, but A: the interactions with Fel taint might be negative for the DK, and B: it wouldn't suddenly make them weak to Demon Hunters. DHs are demon HUNTERS- i.e. they're really good at killing DEMONS. The DK would have to act like a demon to be vulnerable, and they just flat out don't in nearly all aspects DHs train for. Remember that Demon Hunters are closest to Witchers in terms of power level and specialization.
@@KiropLokiIncarnate . Ah I see. Thanks.
I love WOW Death Knights, Demon Hunters, and Forsaken Warlocks.
Even though I have never played any of the Warcraft games.
Hey man WoW has a free trial up to level 20 if you ever want to check out, although i would recommend you to wait for the next expansion in December, it's a significant upgrade to the current game and will definitely provide you a better first impression :)
@@Nadrieth . That's awesome but I don't have a PC and I'm over nine thousand years away from being able to get one.
@@zombiedemon1762 Oh i see, next year Microsoft will acquire Activison Blizzard (WoW Devs) and hopefully the game might come out to Xbox, an Xbox Series S should be more than enough to run the game well, 300 bucks isn't cheap, but it's definitely more feasible than a PC.
@@Nadrieth . Okay well I might be able to afford that in four hundred years.
God I love Doronsmovies. Been watching you since WoD days!
I think in a quick fight the DH would win but in a longer fight the DK resilience and magical resistance would eventually win out. Every second a fight last with a death knight you're losing ground. Their blood and unholy Magics will sustain them and they will never get tired. Every blow will be as powerful and quick as the last and most spells and magic you throw at them will be absorbed or mitigated. Even slight contact with their blade will make you violently sick and you will slowly begin to die even if they don't land multiple strikes.
No in a quick fight it wouldn’t matter necromancy triumphs over fel so it wouldn’t make sense if dhs would beat a death knight my dude
I mean death knights don’t feel anything for starters and we’re talking about arthas here thee most powerful being on azeroth even top 3 in the universe so idk about ur statement but some is true
And he was one of the best paladins also to trained by one of thee greats all time in uther and the light is not as powerful as death but still triumphs over fel in lore so I mean…. If u want a deep-dive on lore in this argument I will gladly help
Demon Hunters win, I don’t get why everyone thinks all Deaths Knights are powerful. There’s a reason why so many Death Knights got their asses handed to them at Lights Hope. If they’re all that powerful they wouldn’t had lost.
There are only a few elite death knights, most aren’t skill enough to beat the Illidari who fought against armies of demons in Outland and other worlds before they got imprisoned.
1 orc ... Grom Hellscream eats these boys for breakfast. Grom kills pitlords alone
Will there be more videos like this? for example Druid vs Warlock or Mage vs Shaman?
Druid vs shaman lol
Why am I not surprised. Dorons is infamous for being bias for his DH babies lol. I saw the title for the video with history on his other videos on his prior take on DH's and thought hmmm I wonder who he is gonna choose. Of course I highly disagree. DK>>>DH too many counters. Took a group of them to kill a pitlord so stop it. Dk could easily summon an undead army to distract the Pitlord for a killing blow, then rise it to serve him.
It’s depends on the two individuals
Demon hunters can fly but death knights can death grip and strangulate
Awesome narration!
Im a demonology Warlock name Lillith, In pvp and world pvp, I always HUNT demon hunters, ive gotten so good at knowing their rotation I can almost predict their choices at times, I love summoning a literal army of demons to kill a demonhunter lol.
Although DK`s are more armored and can lock down a DH temporarily with chains of ice, strangulate and death grip, the DH can turn invisible, use smoke to make them harder to hit, are fast as fuck, can turn into a literal demon, shoot fel fire out of their eyes, can also stun with fel eruption and their aura burns you wther you have armor on or not. Also they are anti magic and can imprison. Both DK and DH can selfsustain though. I wholeheartedly believe DH`s wins more duels than DK`s lorewise.
As for the fight between Arthas and Illidan, Illidan toyed with Arthas because he is a cocky bastard. Add some plot armor ontop of it and there you have the reason Arthas got out on top. When Illidan knocked Frostmourne out of Arthas` hands he could`ve literally chopped his head off.
I really don't think there would be a clear winner. Both groups lost to regular fighters/people in the end. See the Black Temple and Ice Crown. Both fell in the end.
It's all situational. If one doesn't use their abilities correctly then they're going to lose.
Saronite armor, unholy strength, frost unholy and blood powers a rune blade and relentless endurance from being undead. The demon hunter would probably be on near even footing in terms strength base form probably Slightly weaker however much faster, their abilities like fel beam, fel barrage etc would be greatly diminished due to the armor and the death knights power to create anti magic shells, frost blasts would slow the demon hunter down as they have no such magical immunities, and the ability to raise dead presenting the demon hunter with multiple foes to deal with at once. Not to mention lore wise we've seen death knights force strangle multiple foes at once I think the death knight has it base form. The demon hunter has some impressive abilities of their own but I feel like the only chance the demon hunter has is in it's demon form, and being the death knight has more tools in it's arsenal I think 6 times out of 10 the the death knights come out on top. It really comes down to the death knight's impressive magic defenses, ner'zthul made them with the thought of being able to handle mages or kirin tor, and most likely warlocks as well since he planned on betraying the legion.
People don't understand how powerful the Burning Legion was and how powerful Fel magic is. Death knights are not immune to the Fel because it overpowers anything. That is the magic Sargeras used to defeat all the other Titans. and if Demon Hunters fight and defeat demons wielding Fel magic, it is safe to say they can beat Death Knights too.
They can, but will they? The Lich King was getting ready to break free from the legion as well, so his arsenal included an army ready to fight fel magic wielders as well.
No it doesen't? When is it stated in the lore that it overpowers anything.
@@xiii9154 When Sargeras defeated the Titans each if whom represent a cosmological force.
They’d be evenly matched.
You've apparently never had to fight a demon hunter as a Death Knight, locking them down is not the problem. They're metamorphosis is the only real X Factor, otherwise the death knight ones pretty handedly. Though we metamorphosis the demon hunters can absolutely win, though it's with a limited time, and if DKs can outlast metamorphosis they went.
he talking about within the lore though
As a 2900 rated DH in two expansions, we run you over in duels it’s a joke lol.
Try fly with a gargoyle shooting at you, and what would happen if a death knight used darl sacrim on metamorphosis
Doron ur reasoning is false ur not even bringing up any important factors of the death knights since I’m guessing u like demon hunters more so that’s why u gave them the ultimate goal by saying they can beat death knights in 7/10 scenarios even tho if we’re talking scenarios death knights can easily weaken or destroy demon hunters 10/10 scenarios so demon hunters don’t really have a chance to go up against a death knight whoops
Demon Hunters share a lot of traits with Witchers- highly skilled monster hunters with inhuman powers taken from their prey. This makes them great fighters, but ultimately they’re still mortal living beings that get tired and need to eat.
Death Knights are absurdly powerful- heavily armored tireless knights with all sorts of magic to help them. The only way to beat them is to manipulate the environment to trap them, and even that only slows them down.
Not sure why DHs being made to kill Pit Lords puts them on another level from DKs. Grommash Hellscream in W3: Reign of Chaos killed the Pit Lord Mannoroth with a single blow. Granted, he was empowered by fel, but honestly - 99% of the races are empowered by something. Fel, Void, Light.
Hellscream, without being empowered, killed Mannoroth again in WoD. Then later, in the same expansion, Hellscream got owned hard by Gul'Dan. Basically, I agree with you. Pit Lords really aren't that impressive and I think an average Death Knight could/would kill an average Pit Lord without much problem, especially considering the most powerful pit-lord ever repeatedly gets his ass-kicked by an arms warrior.
Ive got a Worgen DK where does he stand 🧐
Doron intentionally got this wrong to increase viewer engagement
@doronsmovies you forgot that arthus was weakened heavly before fighting illidan at the frozen throne in warcraft 3 due to illidans forces attacking the lich kings prison of ice . lore wise its been spoke of that death knights are far stronger and more powerful than due to them being highly trained warriors paladins and assasians then raised as deathknights and they are just as skilled as demon hunters combat wise its argued that death knights are more powerful than demon hunters due to the magics used to empower them as the death magic used is more powerful than the fel chaos magic used by demon hunters due to them only being able to use hafe the power the demon had and those are words from chris metzen one of the creators of world of warcraft
I'd say DKs would beat DHs until the DH's use Meta. Then the DKs would be in trouble
Arthas defeated Illidan and wasnt even yet at his strongest.
DHs specialise in fighting demons not people. DK fight the living and have skills to augment that.
If you say DK and DH against demons who does better against demons - than its DH. If its DH vs DK DK wins.
That said i watch most of your videos and i have to say for someone having their content oriented so much on the Lore you get a LOT of lore wrong and its painfull that you spread the minsinformation so hard.
Now if you male oppinion statements thats one thing but you tend to sell your oppinions as fact and thats very bad practise.
You want some lore on DK vs DH?
DKs are nott he same, theres 4 generations of them with the third generation being the potentially strongest while the second is the rarest.
a few feats Dks have that put them way above DH
- they literally can not get tired, exhausted, drown, fatigue or anything due to being undead
- they wear Saronite armor, which IN LORE is near impenetrable to weapons AND MAGIC ALIKE - its IN LORE the best armor there is
- they can mindcontrol, summon or create minions
- they have superhuman strength, reflexes and are insanely tough to kill as they are magicly upgraded upon creation and cant be killed unless you decapitate them so you cant injure them either
- 3rd Gen DKs are all batle hardened veterans of the second war
- they wield rune blades that can literally suck out someones soul by mere touch
- i want to stress that all the cool skills like lasereyes DHs have...WONT WORK ON 3rd Gen DKS AT ALL due to magic immunity that includes fel
So in short the demon hunters have NOTHING - to beat a DK IN LORE
Meanwhile DKs have multiple things that give them quite the edge against DHs.
DHs are specialised to defeat demons and they are very good at that but again....SPECIALISED to fight DEMONS and nothing else.
So your 6 out of 10 times DH wins is pure fanboy mode without any realistic assesmen or lore correctness. Am i fanboying for DKs? Well i dont like DKs or DHs. Im a mage player and think myself unbiased in this one
I think you are fanboying dks actually. They are not as powerful as you say and they most certainly are not immune to magic if the spell is strong enough.
@@incadeptus according to LORE saronite - which is the material that a) only DKs CAN wear as thes are immune to the old gods whipsers due to the LK overpowering them, makes the wearer IMMUNE to magic. thats the lore.
I have to disagree though I’m not as into DK lore as much, there has to be very little I by know at least something about when it comes to DH. With that being said. Demon hunters were trained to fight the burning legion, not just demon hunters and while demon are the main consistency of the burning legion they are not the entirety. The burning legion had to have used necromancy in abundances in most of not all battles. Again death knights are solely a Lich King tool and thus I won’t say that DH were a common thing in the Burning Legion. However Illidan did lose to Arthus (despite power and experience) and in no way could you convince me that Illidan did not train his demon hunters on how to at least combat demon hunters.
Now I would like to comment on your list of reasons why DK are “better”.
Granted DK are undead. I appreciate the fact that you acknowledge that a lot of people don’t. However IN GAME DK do have a breathe bar while underwater and while I’ve never personally died from drowning I can only assume that if that bar is expended they die. I bring that up because this discussion was about the player character version of DK vs DH.
Armor, no matter how impenetrable armor may be it still does have its weakness and it’s n no way makes you invincible to physical attacks. That’s more historical fact than in-game logic but I’d have to believe they based this off of real life logic soooo.
Minions, dh are train to fight hordes of not mindless zombies but blood drunk capable warriors that may die as easily but have the ability to think instead of having to be told how to be useful.
Demon hunters have the ability to pull on the strength, speed, reflexes and other attributes of their demons and thus can match if not surpass the DK in many if not all abilities of the body.
While I can’t speak on bloodelf versions of the demon Hunter I can say that at least some of the night elves were vets of the ancient wars spanning over ten thousand years ago. Second war that’s where the blood elves (or high elves as there known at the time) can pull from experience from. So with that being said I have to apologize but DK do not have more battle experience than DH.
Demon Hunter do not have anything special to fight Death Knights with you are right. They’re train to fight demons of the burning legion. So let’s break this down if you will the burning legion consist of some of the strongest magic users in the cosmos. The Eredar warlocks are beyond masters of what they do and still have little chance one on one with a Demon Hunter. The legion consist of small, large, flying, swimming, smart stupid, four legged, four armed, and yes undead warriors of all make. I grant you DK are excellent warriors very difficult to face, but if from their experience with the burning legion can’t be pulled from to combat the DK then I concede the point.
In closing I won’t say that every DH will destroy a DK I won’t even say every DH will Win against every DK. To sit here and say that DH has no chance against a DK common fam let’s be real here.
You do realize nerzhul was giving arthas everything he had left to help him get to the frozen throne and illidan just got out of a 10,000 year imprisonment fighting with blades he had just gotten before he got jailed so both were handicapped in that fight and in terms of general dks and dhs the dks ability to not run out of gas and heal wounds would be negated by the fel from the demon hunters attacks and their saronite armor would protect them better than most armor but wouldn't be able to negate alot of the damage from fel attacks it's been proven on multiple occasions that fel trump's old god power so before you go pulling the lore card actually do the research
As the person above me stated, Fel is an extremely volatile and dangerous magic which will can penetrate anything. That's the magic Sargeras used to defeat all the other Titans if you don't remember. People underestimate how powerful the Burning Legion and the demons really are. If DH's can fight powerful demons wielding Fel and amped by Sargeras, they sure as hell can fight death knights.
Is thi going to be a series 😳?
Dk forever! Dks are the best class, together with warriors
I just want to highlight the fact in the second dual with Arthur, illidan was greatly weakend due to an event in auchindoun. I believe this was mentioned in chronicles. So, even when Illidan was not in his full strength, he still proved he was quite the challenge for Arthur.
arthas was weakened also due to the lich kings powers waining, so still the same outcome most likely.
i remember during that part of the campaign arthas kept delvling per chapter so most likely he was in a weaker state then even illidan.
blizz prob left it vague like that just so people could debate about it until the ends of the earth, you hear me, to the ends of the earth!
@@Abionx Here's the comment of someone else that resume why Arthas vs Illidan is not a good exemple:
"Most people on the comment sections seem to oversee certain lore bits on dhs, which is understandable as gameplay wise dh is quite limited, for the sake of balance-Which goes for most casters as well like mages and warlocks.
-Some of the dhs actually use demonsteel made glaives they are quite similar to saronite in certain aspect and as far as metal goes they are quite capable, not saying it can pierce through saronite mind you but it can certainly damage a dk (not the armor)
-Dh's are made to fight demons--Yes that's the base idea doesn't mean they aren't any good at fighting other things. People only seem to see dhs as faster and stronger humanoids. But dhs senses are also enchanted actually, not just speaking about specteral sight (which mind you makes them able to see magic being casted before the spell is finished casting things like strangulate, frost spells etc) but also they are told to be really good at reacting, being able to see all around them (illidan novel even mentions them being able to see behind them) and having an extremely sharp sense of touch where they could feel even the slightest hint of imperfection.
-On top of this another major pointer seem to be: "Dh's can bleed and die but dks are undead." and "Dh's have soul damaging weapons" So far only frostmourn seem to be soul damaging hence the word mournblade. On another note, dhs can and DO use magic and they DO drain the souls and damage them as well, during a duel between dhs in the illidan novels, dhs even use the bits of souls they drain to heal themselves. So just like how a dk can cut their foes and heal themselves via blood magic, dhs can do something akin with souls, which is quite useful against a dk given they are quite resistant to regular injuries due to being an undead.
-Frost to slow dhs, sure that's a valid tactic, on the counter argument dhs can engulf themselves in fel fire, which burns much hotter than regular fire and can't be put out by regular means actually. One of the few methods to douse fel fire is by using arcane magic to enchant water (water elementals also work, dalaran quest from legion.) So it can be used to counter frost, further more means dhs don't really have to pierce the armor to hurt the dh.
-Dh's also heal very fast on their own, they have wolverine like healing factor and are as strong as ogres. Vendal (a new dh intiate) is said to be able to shatter boulders with mere daggers, and at one point gets wounded by Maive herself, and gets his skull cracked up. He passes out and wakes up in the morning FULLY healed. On his own, without using any magic.
-Dh's in lore uses magic, offensively AND defensively. It is mentioned yet not limited to fel bolts, and even sheeths of 'darkness' to put off the blows from weapons. (During spars they also cover their glaives with magic to make them blunt and none fatal)
I dare say both dk and dh counter each other quite well, fel fire=dk frost magic, blood magic healing=soul sucking healing, undead fortitude=fel fire/soul draining etc, it genuinly depends on the match up on this class...Which I rarely say when it comes to wow match ups. Just wrote this because most people in the comments seem to be going by what the in game skills are, rather than the actual lore implications!
On a last grip, if anyone wishes to use Arthas beated Illidan though (I do adore Arthas, but let's be real), that's quite specific. First of all, they are not regulars, these two are essentially 'hero' characters. Secondly, Arthas had the strongest of the mournblades that was crafted by the literal gods of death x'D that was made to be used against other gods of death and steal their divine sigils...Not every dk has a frostmourn, Illidans warglaives were just looted from doomguard (albeit commander) while potent they are nowhere near on frostmourn tier. Number 3: Books stated that given Lich King knew that it was his last chance, he poured all his power into Arthas during the fight, again, something that doesn't happen to all dks xD"
All the points were right, but Illidan was basically the CHOSEN ONE, on top of him being an insanely skilled Arcane Mage before becoming a DH. Personally I think they'd kill each other, the DK with slow or stop their movement and send in their ARMY of Undead, and the DH would eye beam everything and while dying cut a DK down.
Death Knights are no way near close to Lich King power
But Demon Hunters are close in power to Illidan?
Pardon the fuck me?
Is there any race that cannot become a Demon Hunter?
I bet a bunch of Undead Demon Hunters would be awesome.
Is there any race that the lore says cannot become a DK?
Aaalso there are no random DKs lore wise they are only the TOP OF THE TOP we are talking lore wise the rest are just undead but DK in contrast to DH is not some random person who is going to tray it the DK is a total champion of the Alliance or Horde that posabbly without beaing DK will kick the ass of a DH so really you do not know shit
Canonically fel magic will do absolutely nothing to deathknights so it's not even a close match.
2:42 Those created by Arthus are the second generation of Death-Knights, right? I like the kind made by Arthus much more than the ones that I think were made by Gul-Dan putting warlock souls in dead Paladin bodies.
The second generation DKs are the ones bound to their rune weapon. Pretty fucking powerful with it, but practically powerless without it.
@@darkblad3359 . Thanks.
When you say bound to their rune weapon, do you mean they would die if their weapon was destroyed?
@@darkblad3359 . I believe I read in a manga that the more a DK kills with their rune weapon, the more powerful they become.
Or am I mistaken?
I never played those games and don't have any way of doing so.
@@zombiedemon1762 I believe so yes. Arthas is a second generation DK, and we saw what happened when Frostmourne was shattered.
@@darkblad3359 . Alright then.
I wish everything in WOW was real so I could become the ultimate Death Knight or undead warlock.
Although I would hope Sylvanas could make sure I don't decompose.
one thing i just realized if blizzards going to be making all classes playable by all races at somepoint how the hell are those tiny ass wings going to hold up a tauren lol
U got it wrong that a demon hunter can take down a pitlord. No, not they cant. not on their own.
anyway theory aside...lol DH's can't get away from dk's. They try...but they get death gripped and shackled and etc. I've seen it so many times in bg's. They are forced to stand and fight and if they aren't Vengeance they don't last.
Illidan was only able to stand up to Arthas because he got the skull of Gul Dan and he was born with way more potential than the typical demon hunter. Death knights were already the best of the best work potentially far more experience on the battlefield and they can negate most magic including fel. Also death knights can self heal.
Arthas castrated Illidan with one swing so there's that....
Also Frostmourne acts as a direct extension of Arthas. During his fights with uther and illidan they were both stronger than him. But once he let the sword guide him he beat them both.
Arthas outnumbered uther very hard
Illidan almost died because Arthas was Very near the Frozen throne, and receive a good chunk of Ner'Zul's Power.
Next one Shaman vs Druid please :D
Wasn't this question answered at the end of WC3 frozen throne
Oh and the nerd is incorrect Death knight's stomp Demon Hunters all the way, how do I know this? I do it all the fucking time
In the end we won against illiden but only survived arthas so
Weakened pre lich king Arthas violated an powered up illidan, so no diff
Also when people talk "Average dk vs Average dh" there is no such thing, Arthas purged all weak or Average dk's when he was the lich king. The more or less same with illidan, since most dh apprentices died because the training/fel Magic so the ones who survived where the elite.
Conclusion : Death Knights can either chill or drain Demon Hunters blood to obliterate then.
Arthas was weakened the 2nd time they fought and in the original wc3 game there was no "Illidan was overpowering and winning" that I recall. This was later retconned to make Illidan look better than he was since he was coming back and the Dh was becoming a playable class. Arthas at full power would beat Illidan without a doubt. He would command an endless army and wait until Illidan tired out.
DH have Eye Beam - Done!!!
Definitely Demon Hunters, no questions.
as a DK i ha r stolen multiple frostwyrms, i know of few demon hunters that have stolen dragons, thus i conclude DKs are better because dragon theft