Nikola Tesla yes and the should also do a vid on the installation of a meth/water injection kit. Perhaps both at the same time? There gonna need a bigger fuel tank if the want to make it ethanol powered though xD
Moot point - we only eat sweet corn. The corn used to make ethanol is high starch. It's hard and tastes awful. It's mostly used for animal feed. It does make corn syrup and corn flour but only small amounts of it.
@@joshuarosen6242 We do grow lots of it here to feed cattle. Some is also put in digesters to make biogas. We generally call it maize though, and confusingly corn in the UK often refers to wheat. You can eat maize, but it's only tasty for about 1 day, blink and you miss it. Even in that tiny window it's not as good as sweetcorn.
It's hard to believe this is a MCM video... They've really improved their editing skills and quality since the start of their TH-cam channel. Keep up the awesome videos!
After following these guys since the very beginning it is fantastic to see that MCM has not only greatly improved they're production value, but also have stuck to their roots. For those that don't know, their channel was initially going to be more based on small, fun and eco-friendly cars which I feel closely relates to this episode. Like always it was a funny, interesting and informative episode. Keep it going Marty and Moog!!!
They basically put poisonous bitter stuff in it to prevent alcoholics from getting drunk on their fuel, because then the alcohol industry will suffer if you can get a gallon of ethanol for $1 or whatever.
You guys should make more documentaries like this. This was spectacular, so well filmed and so much great information shared. Great job! keep em coming!
Such an educational video, a lot of good information. I wish you guys would've mentioned to be careful running E85 in colder climates. Over here in the U.S. a lot of guys have two tunes. One for the summer when it's warm out with E85 and one in the winter when it's cold out on regular pump fuels. If you run E85 when its cold you can gunk up fuel filters, lines, and injectors. Having a flex fuel sensor solves this problem. Also, direct injection engines have high pressure injector that don't flow a lot of fuel... So direct injection engines don't see good benefits from E85 because you have to flow more fuel. Not a problem on port injection vehicles because you just get bigger injectors. Mostly, car with forced induction and high compression ratios will see the benefits from E85. Overall, amazing video keep up the great work. I love these videos that you guys do where you go learn something new and sharing it with us. Thank you.
Only half way through this video but so far one of the best videos you guys have ever done. I loved the driveway videos of installing short shifters and painting brake calipers and stuff but doesn't it blow your minds when you compare those videos to this? Huge well done to all involved.
I really appreciate that MCM is always balanced and methodical about topics like this. This video is top level journalism, complete with jokes about Cheryl.
Some disadvantages of Ethanol: Ethanol may be good for supercharged and turbocharged engines for it's anti-ping or detonation qualities. But naturally aspirated, "Flex Fuel" cars will show no measurable performance improvement. The fuel range is at least 1/3 less per gallon or liter. The engine computer on Flex Fuel cars just makes the fuel/air ratio richer from a lean 14.5:1 stoichiometric to a richer 7:1 and the cost at the pump wont offset the total cost per mile or kilometer most of the time ( You'll have to do your own math on this). Ethanol (E85 has up to 15% petrol or gasoline) combustion might be emitting less carbon emissions. But the farm growth/conversion process offsets and exceeds that. The presence of oxygen in ethanol opens a pathway for a myriad other combustion products, including formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. If inhaled in small quantities, these chemicals can irritate the eyes and lungs, whereas more significant exposure to these and other particulates is associated with asthma, allergies and even some cancers. Ethanol is hygroscopic, it means that it absorbs water from the air and thus has high corrosion aggressiveness. That’s why it is transported only by auto transport or railroad. Ethanol competes for arable food producing land for human survival. Ethanol can negatively affect electric fuel pumps by increasing internal wear and undesirable spark generation. Pure ethanol is also difficult to vaporize which can make starting a car in cold weather difficult and that is why most fuels retain at least a small amount of petrol or gasoline - such as E85 cars with 85% ethanol and 15% petroleum.
Most of that beginning was incorrect. on N/A applications a tune alone saw as much as 40 rwhp on certain vehicles that were non ffv . it will vary from car to car. all show a measurable amount of power increase from MBT alone. 14.5 / 7:1 is not "richer" its a different target point. it takes more ethanol to target the same AFR but can be offset depending on the design of the engine. Farm growth claims are not substantiated , especially if the equipment used to far has far better emissions. gasoline can also obsorb water. transport it correctly and make sure your car is correct mechanically it is not a problem > it does not compete for food and the refinment process is being changed and improved over time no different than oil and gas were at some point in the past. it does not do anything bad to fuel pumps except those made with rubbers that dont tolerate the fuel to begin with ... which over all is not a problem in most 90's + vehicles anyway , vehicles can start in the cold weather even if a bit more difficult this is not a "problem" so to speak and does not take away the incentive to use it , especially in warmer climates. most about -20* F
+The General Speaks You clearly don't even know what you're talking about.On naturally aspirated engines they make more power on pure gasoline without any ethanol.Gasoline CANNOT absorb water because it isn't hygroscopic ,ethanol is.Ethanol is bad for all fuel systems and engines,there is a reason you don't see anyone running pure ethanol in their engine.Ethanol has caused melted pistons because it burns hotter than gasoline and is notorious for causing rust inside fuel lines as well as destroying rubber hoses and diaphragms not compatible with it.
Research and technology dictate differently. Most N/A engines that have run it had an increase in power and those built to take it see it even more so due to the ability to take advantage of the fuel. MIT case study disagrees with your assertion . You're wrong.
Any melted pistons are from it being in an untuned engine . Any destruction of fuel lines etc is the fault of the person not placing the fuel into a vehicle with lines that can sustain it. You cant store gasoline in things its not designed for either so the point is stupid. majority of 90's + vehicles can tolerate ethanol without issue. Ive proven this in my research and many others
George, do you know if it has an adverse effect on oil like during the actual strokes of the pistons since roughly 30% more needs to be injected per cycle compared to gas. I'm worried about cylinder and ring wear.
+tavis young Well when you have a very highly educated guy who takes his job seriously. And a jokster like Moog who is just out for a laugh. Yea it will rub some people wrong lol
This is awesome!!! I've started using this fuel in my Silverado and it runs a lot smoother. I feel a little more Getty up when I get on the highway, and it's around the same gas mileage, and lastly it's a lot cheaper
I am glad to see others helping to get people to use e85. I am from the U.S. and with our pump fuels have low octane ratings, having a low cost high octane fuel at the pumps is great. For our cars to be able to run on regular pump fuel, the ecu has to make so many adjustments to the engine to prevent knock in standard engines. I luckily own a factory setup flex fuel car with fuel stations near by so I can run e85. Although e85's true blessing is for forced induction engines, even my mostly stock engine feels like it takes advantage of the high octane and fully utilize it's compression. Normal 87 octane fuel, the ecu has to adjust the valve timing to keep some exhaust in the cylinder to reduce the max air and fuel that can enter and to preventing knock and nox emissions. When on e85, the ecu can maximize the air and fuel going in. The only problem I have is cost. Even though it cost less than regular fuel, the drop in mpg makes running on e85, at times, more expensive. Since my car can't fully utilize e85's potential, I only use it when price appropriately.
+rhkips Eh, the fuel grade is actually rather a lot rougher than Everclear.. lol. "The Clear" is kinda harsh, but the fuel grade stuff is a lot worse. (yes, I have had both..I'll drink everclear despite never having been in a frat, but the other stuff.. nah..)
I was mad when I didn't see an episode about the Mini chopping things, however this episode was more than interesting, it was really helpful, thank you very much
Interesting fact: here in Brazil, gasoline has (by law) 27% of 100% pure alcohol and ethanol is 95.1% to 96% (the rest is pretty much water and additives). In the modded car scene, is almost impossible to find a turbo/supercharged car running on gasoline (because the quality is so poor. Premium gasoline is better, but still poor quality). So when you decide to install any aftermarket forced induction, we only run our cars on ethanol. Pretty much all cars here are now flex fuel (a few years ago BMW launched here the active flex 320i, and now vw has a turbo 3 cylinder engine which is also flex fuel), not just because of all the extra power from ethanol, but because our gasoline knocks really easily (even on completely original n/a cars).
+Rene Hourian (Kris) Actually there is water on brazilian ethanol because the distillation process is unable to separate all the water (maximum of 96%). The 100% ethanol added to our gasoline is the same ethanol distilled from sugar cane (even at 78,1°C it can't get better than 96%) but subjected to chemical processes (CaO + H2O --> Ca(OH)2) and after that it's distilled one more time but now only the ethanol evaporates. So the water reacts with those products and so we have 100% ethanol. This process increase the fuel price and thats why they don't use 100% ethanol. This 27% added to the gasoline need to be pure because gasoline (nonpolar) can't be mixed with water (polar), while ethanol can be mixed with both but more strongly with water.
I'm going to go ahead and assume it's a small enough percentage of water that when atomized by the injector, in the heat of a combustion chamber, it turns to vapor really fast. Like water injection. It's not a substantial amount of water, if there was, that would be pretty terrible. xD
We use ethanol for lubricant when machining aluminium too. Specifically hand sanitizer because it has 15% glycerin in which actually does wonders for manual milling and lathe work on aluminium.
I think it would be interesting to take apart an engine that has run on E85 for a while. There are a lot of questions around reliability and durability. What would the carbon buildup be like? How is the oil affected? Does ethanol create rust on the rings if you let it sit? (How do the bores look?) Happy new year! :)
Reliability and durability usually is not a problem with ethanol EFI engines. Ethanol fuel makes far less carbon deposits and don't darken engine oil as petrol does. Otherwise, a real problem is the corrosion in unprotected Petrol carburetors and engine oil contamination.
Ethanol is still corrosive to engines that sit. yes modern engines seem to be able to take it in stride unlike carbureted engines with copper components. But it seems to me that all modern Fuel injected engines don't leave carbon deposits in the oil ethanol has no affect as far as I can tell. I have rebuilt more carburetors in the last 5 years than I have ever had to before. Trucks with fuel systems that haven't been touched in 20 years all of a sudden need to be rebuilt every year. Ethanol is not a miracle fuel and I would go as far to say that this video is sponsored
Personally, and I hope this gets voted up so y'all see it, I don't like the way they're forcing ethanol into the fuel here in the US (E10). A lot of old cars are having issues with only 10% in the fuel. Fuel systems, including carburetors them self are often damaged or destroyed by ethanol. Sometimes it takes years, sometimes less. Ethanol free gas is available, but rare. If your car is built for it, it's great, if it's not, even E10 is a nightmare. I've taken apart carburetors that sat with E10 in them for a few months and the seals had turned to goo, one even had the float disintegrate. Don't get me wrong, I love finding alternative fuels, and anything which can put hydrogen into the engine to be burnt other than gasoline is very interesting, but here in the states Ethanol has become a heated debate. Also, I'll never give up my internal explodey goodness for a electric car. Never, ever, ever, ever... EDIT: I'm also jealous you have higher octane ratings down there...
+Dead Reckon Not sure about there but here in australia will still have mostly normal petrol with the occasional pump that has e10 or e85. It's also recommended for people to not run ethanol in older cars because that reason, even some older fuel injected ones have problems. If it's being forced upon people over there, then that is really retarded.
Yep, it is. Use to see stickers saying "This product may contain up to 10% ethanol", now it's just "This product contains 10% ethanol", sometimes they just cover up the word "May". Gotta drive the grammar nazi's insane. I never can get a carburetor tuned on that crap. They don't even call it e10, they still call it 87, regular, 89, mid grade, or 93, premium. I can't really complain though, gas is averaging around $1.84 a gallon where I live, sooo... Bring on the 10% corn 90% dino juice?
+Dead Reckon Ethanol isn't required by the federal government or most state governments in the US. It is, however, ALLOWED by these authorities. Ethanol is cheaper than pure gasoline, so some produces dilute their gas with it, up to 15% as allowed by governments. They have to state that the gas is diluted though. Look around for a bit and you might be surprised to find a fuel station near you that carries pure gasoline. However, also be aware that E85 is legally defined as containing anywhere from 65-85% ethanol. Also, Australia doesn't have higher octane ratings. They use a different octane scale than the US, which gives higher numbers. Their 98 octane is roughly equivalent to US 93 octane. Look up AKI and RON octane ratings for more information on the topic. If you don't have 93 available, you most likely live in higher elevation, where the tendency to knock is reduced by the lower average atmospheric pressure.
well for one it is not a 100/1 ratio. here in the states we know this well from all of the bootlegging. but, why I chimed in is to ask moot and Marty if they have done any comparison as to fuel economy between the two. this video is one of your best and please keep it up but I would love a follow up with with power comparisons (not in the mini obviously) and economical comparison as well as price of course. all in, a great video and thank you for your time and dedication.
Something you didn't discuss but is a big factor, is ethanol's ability to absorb water out of the atmosphere and fall out of solution in mixed fuel supplies. I'm most familiar with E-10 and it's abilities to ruin all kinds of small engines or at the very least, make off-season storage a serious pain in the ass. If you have a can of fuel that isn't 100% sealed, in 3-6 months, it is likely to be trash. That means boats and mowers and trimmers and chainsaws and pressure washers and emergency de-watering pumps and ANYTHING that takes ethanol fuels runs the risk of having contaminated fuel the next time you go to use it. That's one reason ethanol fuels are NOT allowed in aviation. That 30% loss of energy is a big deal if you want any range out of the tank of fuel you jst bought as well. It's great for short sprints, where carrying 30% more fuel may not matter, but when your Mini can go 300 miles on it's 10 gallons of gasoline but only 200 on E-85, your trip from Melbourne to Cape Coran might not go as smoothly.
+Aaron Barker Range is definitely an issue. We were able to drive Supergramps home from the Sunshine coast to Sydney (1400km) filling up on Ethanol the whole way and only needing 10L from a jerry can to do the trip. We don't really deal with small engines but we have read about issues with storage also.
This documentary actually links to a lot of things i'm revising for science GCSE. I wish there were documentaries like this i could revise from instead of boring textbooks.
Absolutely brilliant educational and inspiring documentary guys shame we don't get e85 more here in the UK. The government makes too much money from the tax on petrol and diesel to start selling it more in my opinion.
Like Triple Play says regarding being viable. We get it in Iowa because it is a big part of our economy. Truth is it just burns cleaner but costs just as much to make as regular fuel due to the process. Therefore it only is viable in locations where the corn is easily accessible, can be locally processed and shipped at a lower cost. It is highly subsidized here too, making it about 40% cheaper than regular fuel. but I still don't use it for more than a fuel system cleaner as it lowers economy and the possibility for long term issues in a non-flex fuel vehicle.
Dude I'm gonna convert my race car to E85 it will be awesome! Then I will use my backup car to drive 200 miles to look for E85 once a month and top up :)
That is all I use in my coon cage and it is so that all one needs to do is change the filter. However fomoco was so inventive in the 60's they never needed a oil change. 139,000 miles 4 quarts amsoil over time. Plus filling filter hey do a normal up keep and as prescribed these panthers last.
+carlos mendes because governments would rather tax the hell out of companys that make it than fund it because they get more kickback from the companies that make regular petrol based fuels and the countries that provide them with the oil
+Moto Rad who told you such bullshit? E85 was a failed product in the US. Reason being is the BTU's it contains compared to gasoline and diesel, the amount of crops and land it is currently consuming that is dislocating alot of workers and economies in Brazil with sugar cane crops, in Mexico and Central American with maize/corn crops, and Southwestern USA as well with corn. Ethanol is alcohol, and is nothing new. You can run your car on pure methanol ethanol propanol ETC. To say that oil companies pay people off to keep hold of the fuel industry is beyond absurd. e85 was presented as an alternative biofuel by oil companies. I generally don't argue on youtube, but I have been in my studies for 4+ years on petroleum exploration, and to read such misinformation is beyond me.
I really like how this video was made. Very informative and not biased toward eco freaks nor oil empires. Great informational video on the pros and cons of a very cool subject
It sounds great, but for the average joe, Ethanol will provide less power and shorter engine life. Maybe when the whole industry moves to 1-2Liter turbo engines, it will have a more common place in the world... Edit: I love your videos, They are MAD! keep it up!!! You guys are MINT ;)
The Swedish government just decided to increase taxes on E85 by 1 SEK / liter (roughly 0.1 Euro) which means that now it costs equally much, if not MORE than regular 95 Octane petrol. It was already peaking at 11-12 SEK / liter and now they most definitely killed it for the future...
+Luke Anderson It depends on the season actually. Summer blend is more, and winter blend is less ethanol in the USA. The higher gasoline content in the winter time helps with cold starts in the colder parts of the USA.
+peniswrinkle, Yes with some gas stations like Caltex you get 70% to 85% between seasons but with United, they tend to be pretty spot on with 85%... Australia is limited to E85 stations, only Caltex & United, & rare to find E85 at those stations alone...
dion759 Yep, want to see Scotty tuning a monster Garrett on a truck and getting 1500nm on the dyno. These tiny ricers are starting to get a bit boring.
Marty & Moog you guys would be happy to know that the HSC Chemistry course in NSW actually focuses a lot on using ethanol as a renewable bio-alternative to petrochemicals, especially for automobile use. My education has actually helped me in the real world, how nice! :)
+S9732 Have they developed a viable version of pure fuel-grade ethanol that doesn't degrade too quickly to sit in a gas tank? Because I'd rather see vehicles running pure ethanol rather than the compromise that is E85.
Well i don't know 100% of the current technology developments but i do know that at the moment every aspect of the chemistry as well as environmental benefit is there, we are just waiting on the world to get around to dealing with the fact that fossil fuels are running out and the earth is heating up at larger than usual rates. Once the industry realises petrochemicals are a dead future we will see solutions.
S9732 They have. It's just that infrastructure they've built around it is too big to change quickly. The largest problems stopping pure fuel-grade ethanol from being a viable alternative here in the United States is that it's illegal to sell it. Legislation has been proposed and shot down (mostly by BP and Shell) again and again to change this, and a lot of the major institutes for technology always put all of their political power behind allowing pure E100 for cars. The only thing that's stopping E100 from being used as fuel right now worldwide is the fact that it's like acid to internal fuel components and deteriorates when it sits, which was why I was asking if they've developed an additive to prevent it from becoming a sugary death bomb to the car over time.
Jack Williams just a tip.. VW is not only diesel manufacturer of engines .. .and id was not only company that cheated on emissions ... but what are doing here if you care about that ?
peniswrinkle well is same here but only 1000-2000 euro difference ... but still injoy more a diesel engine on my car for long trips . much more torque and excellent fuel economy
Yeah, and the worst thing is when they try to "correct" your pronunciation when you're right. No Vehicule Virgins (and a lot of people), it's not "PorschA" it's "PorschE".. x'D
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Im doing my chemistry assignment on E85, this video almost cracked it for me! thanks guys!!
Can I use E85 on my Toyota GR Yaris?
How the fuck would he know he's a highschool student not a jdm master-tech
He's got a point there
Hmmm alcohol fueled car?
One for you,
one for me,
one for you,
one for me...
Michael Nguyen haha this is from the Simpsons 😂
May as well plumb a fuel line into myself in that case
Aren't you the bloke who produced birdemic?
Guys you NEED to do a rotary project car
Nikola Tesla yes and the should also do a vid on the installation of a meth/water injection kit. Perhaps both at the same time? There gonna need a bigger fuel tank if the want to make it ethanol powered though xD
Just imagine something like a dual rotor Daihatsu Terios running on E85.
That's what I'm expecting from Mcm, lol
Nikola Tesla can't forget the twinscroll turbo
HELL YEAH
Nikola Tesla Or a turbocharged diesel....
If i drink/eat enough products that contain ethanol,can i start peeing in my fuel tank?
+Unrealy1 You can pee in your fuel tank even if you don't.
+paddys06 LMAO
Try eating/drinking methanol for some extra points.
Yeah, but you'll go blind..Wood alcohol does that. That's how the whole joke got started. Wood alcohol+playing with it=blindness.
Raven Rock67 Yeah I know, it was a joke. Then again I'd feel pretty shitty, if some one actually did that.
And Moog was never allowed in the plant again.
Moot point - we only eat sweet corn. The corn used to make ethanol is high starch. It's hard and tastes awful. It's mostly used for animal feed. It does make corn syrup and corn flour but only small amounts of it.
Being English, I am not that familiar with corn so I had not known this. Thank you for your informative comment.
@@joshuarosen6242 We do grow lots of it here to feed cattle. Some is also put in digesters to make biogas. We generally call it maize though, and confusingly corn in the UK often refers to wheat.
You can eat maize, but it's only tasty for about 1 day, blink and you miss it. Even in that tiny window it's not as good as sweetcorn.
oh so thats why people in southern cali say their car is corn fed
It's Private you need to chill out dude.
@Josh Smith true statement! My cars get an extra 100 miles per tank when I used ethanol free 89!
@Josh Smith You fucking idiot.
It's hard to believe this is a MCM video... They've really improved their editing skills and quality since the start of their TH-cam channel. Keep up the awesome videos!
After following these guys since the very beginning it is fantastic to see that MCM has not only greatly improved they're production value, but also have stuck to their roots. For those that don't know, their channel was initially going to be more based on small, fun and eco-friendly cars which I feel closely relates to this episode. Like always it was a funny, interesting and informative episode.
Keep it going Marty and Moog!!!
They are production value?
The quality of your videos is just getting better and better. Keep it up !
That Chemist clearly didn't want to have to deal with Moog's shit
This has to be one of the most thoughtful and well put together videos on matters such as this. Bravo, gents.
Production value increasing so much. MCM reaching all new heights.
Hope the worker did not get into trouble or worse for "Allowing" "Not stopping" moog from taste testing the ethanol :)
+Mark B He did try to stop him. But Moog prevailed.
"Hi Cheryl...." LOL!
I started dieing like wtf lmao
?
I know right! Haha!
They basically put poisonous bitter stuff in it to prevent alcoholics from getting drunk on their fuel, because then the alcohol industry will suffer if you can get a gallon of ethanol for $1 or whatever.
Legally they have to, otherwise its taxed as liquor which is much higher
@@tortron ah I see. Thanks.
You guys should make more documentaries like this. This was spectacular, so well filmed and so much great information shared. Great job! keep em coming!
+Justin Henry Thanks Justin!
I use it in my 2005 Silverado 5.3L Flex Fuel and it loves it. Super smooth operation, and big gobs of power on the highway. $1.90 a Gallon in Florida!
"...I should probably try it while I'm here" Moog kicking off 2016 with pure gold
Such an educational video, a lot of good information. I wish you guys would've mentioned to be careful running E85 in colder climates. Over here in the U.S. a lot of guys have two tunes. One for the summer when it's warm out with E85 and one in the winter when it's cold out on regular pump fuels. If you run E85 when its cold you can gunk up fuel filters, lines, and injectors. Having a flex fuel sensor solves this problem. Also, direct injection engines have high pressure injector that don't flow a lot of fuel... So direct injection engines don't see good benefits from E85 because you have to flow more fuel. Not a problem on port injection vehicles because you just get bigger injectors. Mostly, car with forced induction and high compression ratios will see the benefits from E85. Overall, amazing video keep up the great work. I love these videos that you guys do where you go learn something new and sharing it with us. Thank you.
croberts3130 thx
This is why I love you guys. Because it's not just a car modding video. It's a truly informative and intellectual scientific lesson.
This video helped me pass 9th grade a couple years ago, thanks! :)
Only half way through this video but so far one of the best videos you guys have ever done. I loved the driveway videos of installing short shifters and painting brake calipers and stuff but doesn't it blow your minds when you compare those videos to this? Huge well done to all involved.
+crcn11 Thanks mate! we like making all kinds of videos, this stuff is educational for us too.
crcn11 i
I really appreciate that MCM is always balanced and methodical about topics like this. This video is top level journalism, complete with jokes about Cheryl.
Some disadvantages of Ethanol:
Ethanol may be good for supercharged and turbocharged engines for it's anti-ping or detonation qualities. But naturally aspirated, "Flex Fuel" cars will show no measurable performance improvement.
The fuel range is at least 1/3 less per gallon or liter. The engine computer on Flex Fuel cars just makes the fuel/air ratio richer from a lean 14.5:1 stoichiometric to a richer 7:1 and the cost at the pump wont offset the total cost per mile or kilometer most of the time ( You'll have to do your own math on this).
Ethanol (E85 has up to 15% petrol or gasoline) combustion might be emitting less carbon emissions. But the farm growth/conversion process offsets and exceeds that.
The presence of oxygen in ethanol opens a pathway for a myriad other combustion products, including formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. If inhaled in small quantities, these chemicals can irritate the eyes and lungs, whereas more significant exposure to these and other particulates is associated with asthma, allergies and even some cancers.
Ethanol is hygroscopic, it means that it absorbs water from the air and thus has high corrosion aggressiveness. That’s why it is transported only by auto transport or railroad.
Ethanol competes for arable food producing land for human survival.
Ethanol can negatively affect electric fuel pumps by increasing internal wear and undesirable spark generation.
Pure ethanol is also difficult to vaporize which can make starting a car in cold weather difficult and that is why most fuels retain at least a small amount of petrol or gasoline - such as E85 cars with 85% ethanol and 15% petroleum.
Most of that beginning was incorrect. on N/A applications a tune alone saw as much as 40 rwhp on certain vehicles that were non ffv . it will vary from car to car. all show a measurable amount of power increase from MBT alone.
14.5 / 7:1 is not "richer" its a different target point. it takes more ethanol to target the same AFR but can be offset depending on the design of the engine.
Farm growth claims are not substantiated , especially if the equipment used to far has far better emissions.
gasoline can also obsorb water. transport it correctly and make sure your car is correct mechanically it is not a problem >
it does not compete for food and the refinment process is being changed and improved over time no different than oil and gas were at some point in the past.
it does not do anything bad to fuel pumps except those made with rubbers that dont tolerate the fuel to begin with ... which over all is not a problem in most 90's + vehicles anyway ,
vehicles can start in the cold weather even if a bit more difficult this is not a "problem" so to speak and does not take away the incentive to use it , especially in warmer climates. most about -20* F
+The General Speaks You clearly don't even know what you're talking about.On naturally aspirated engines they make more power on pure gasoline without any ethanol.Gasoline CANNOT absorb water because it isn't hygroscopic ,ethanol is.Ethanol is bad for all fuel systems and engines,there is a reason you don't see anyone running pure ethanol in their engine.Ethanol has caused melted pistons because it burns hotter than gasoline and is notorious for causing rust inside fuel lines as well as destroying rubber hoses and diaphragms not compatible with it.
Research and technology dictate differently.
Most N/A engines that have run it had an increase in power and those built to take it see it even more so due to the ability to take advantage of the fuel. MIT case study disagrees with your assertion .
You're wrong.
Any melted pistons are from it being in an untuned engine . Any destruction of fuel lines etc is the fault of the person not placing the fuel into a vehicle with lines that can sustain it.
You cant store gasoline in things its not designed for either so the point is stupid. majority of 90's + vehicles can tolerate ethanol without issue. Ive proven this in my research and many others
George, do you know if it has an adverse effect on oil like during the actual strokes of the pistons since roughly 30% more needs to be injected per cycle compared to gas. I'm worried about cylinder and ring wear.
We've been using ethanol here in Brazil since before the 2000 years, it's also know here as acohol
Paulo Esteves what do you mean 2000s? It's at least from 1980s
@@or4089 "Since before"
The intro reminds me of popular mechanics for kids back in the early 2000s. Good vibes, back when life was so easy.
the guy at 14:50 seemed pissed off at moog
+tavis young i thought it was pretty funny
+Vinnie Davis ye it was funny but he seemed pissed
tavis young
he's probably worried about his job
+Vinnie Davis I liked it how Moog is wearing a safety vest and a hardhat while he drinks the industrial chemical.
+tavis young Well when you have a very highly educated guy who takes his job seriously. And a jokster like Moog who is just out for a laugh. Yea it will rub some people wrong lol
What an awesomely different episide
This is awesome!!! I've started using this fuel in my Silverado and it runs a lot smoother. I feel a little more Getty up when I get on the highway, and it's around the same gas mileage, and lastly it's a lot cheaper
2008 or so E85 cost $ 1.99 in California. 2016 $2.05 My Evo drinks this stuff.
I just paid $1.69 per gallon to mix e30 yesterday..
I thought e85 was really expensive in California
$3.39 where I love in California right now
Ethanol: "It's all through your house, it's all through your work, it is everywhere" are you trying to call me an alcoholic?
Spotted that COLORADO, U.S.A. license plate. Represent. We LOVE you guys out here!!!
Here in Brazil, we have ethanol in every gas station, because almost every car out here is flex from the factory.
Yeah. Back then there were cars that used ethanol only. The only issue are the cold starts.
+Andyy Edits But we run on E100...
Yeah, but it's good for the people reading the comment section to understand our situation.
I went to San Paulo Brazil a couple years ago. It was beautiful!!
+ozzy8031 because other countries don't have huge fields of sugar cane?
No one warned that ethanol guy that Moog is a freak :P
I am glad to see others helping to get people to use e85. I am from the U.S. and with our pump fuels have low octane ratings, having a low cost high octane fuel at the pumps is great. For our cars to be able to run on regular pump fuel, the ecu has to make so many adjustments to the engine to prevent knock in standard engines. I luckily own a factory setup flex fuel car with fuel stations near by so I can run e85. Although e85's true blessing is for forced induction engines, even my mostly stock engine feels like it takes advantage of the high octane and fully utilize it's compression. Normal 87 octane fuel, the ecu has to adjust the valve timing to keep some exhaust in the cylinder to reduce the max air and fuel that can enter and to preventing knock and nox emissions. When on e85, the ecu can maximize the air and fuel going in. The only problem I have is cost. Even though it cost less than regular fuel, the drop in mpg makes running on e85, at times, more expensive. Since my car can't fully utilize e85's potential, I only use it when price appropriately.
Ime pretty sure I just accidentally skipped an ad about home doughnut delivery... WHAT HAVE I DONE!? X.X
96%? Congrats Moog, you just experienced Everclear; the beverage of choice of irresponsible, socially-crippled frat boys all over the US. :D
+rhkips 96% not 96 proof
Harley Sydenham
Yup, that's what I said~ 96% ABV; 192 proof. :D
+rhkips Eh, the fuel grade is actually rather a lot rougher than Everclear.. lol. "The Clear" is kinda harsh, but the fuel grade stuff is a lot worse. (yes, I have had both..I'll drink everclear despite never having been in a frat, but the other stuff.. nah..)
Only time I ever saw double was after doing 1 triple shot.Bad choice.
I was mad when I didn't see an episode about the Mini chopping things, however this episode was more than interesting, it was really helpful, thank you very much
17:40 Finally a Volvo on MCM!
Interesting fact: here in Brazil, gasoline has (by law) 27% of 100% pure alcohol and ethanol is 95.1% to 96% (the rest is pretty much water and additives). In the modded car scene, is almost impossible to find a turbo/supercharged car running on gasoline (because the quality is so poor. Premium gasoline is better, but still poor quality). So when you decide to install any aftermarket forced induction, we only run our cars on ethanol.
Pretty much all cars here are now flex fuel (a few years ago BMW launched here the active flex 320i, and now vw has a turbo 3 cylinder engine which is also flex fuel), not just because of all the extra power from ethanol, but because our gasoline knocks really easily (even on completely original n/a cars).
+Benjamin Holt I assure you there is no water in your fuel. Water doesn't compress. If there was water in your fuel, bad things happen. xD
Rene Hourian yeah, I know that. But as you can imagine, isn't really easy to find out what exactly is in our ethanol.
+Rene Hourian (Kris) Actually there is water on brazilian ethanol because the distillation process is unable to separate all the water (maximum of 96%). The 100% ethanol added to our gasoline is the same ethanol distilled from sugar cane (even at 78,1°C it can't get better than 96%) but subjected to chemical processes (CaO + H2O --> Ca(OH)2) and after that it's distilled one more time but now only the ethanol evaporates. So the water reacts with those products and so we have 100% ethanol. This process increase the fuel price and thats why they don't use 100% ethanol. This 27% added to the gasoline need to be pure because gasoline (nonpolar) can't be mixed with water (polar), while ethanol can be mixed with both but more strongly with water.
I'm going to go ahead and assume it's a small enough percentage of water that when atomized by the injector, in the heat of a combustion chamber, it turns to vapor really fast. Like water injection. It's not a substantial amount of water, if there was, that would be pretty terrible. xD
+Rene Hourian (Kris) Exactly.
I love these guys! I want to be this kind of car enthusiast: genuine, responsible and inspiring others to live greater lives.
That was a very well presented and edited informative video on ethanol. Thanks.
i dont have a flex fuel car and i run e85 mix in my 2011 audi a5 turbo....never ever an issue and it runs great..and cooler
I love this show. I actually learn stuff I didn't know. I didn't know ish about ethanol until I watched this. You guys are awesome.
And here comes that one person who uses diesel.
me.
+xureality DIESEL POWAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Tdi for the win
DIEsel
im sorry
They make electric trucks?!?
Arne Hurnik Nikolai you mean Tesla
You guys should get an AE86 next!!
We use ethanol for lubricant when machining aluminium too. Specifically hand sanitizer because it has 15% glycerin in which actually does wonders for manual milling and lathe work on aluminium.
I think it would be interesting to take apart an engine that has run on E85 for a while. There are a lot of questions around reliability and durability. What would the carbon buildup be like? How is the oil affected? Does ethanol create rust on the rings if you let it sit? (How do the bores look?)
Happy new year! :)
+Clément Dutter ethanol wreaks havoc on engines that sit. I'm sure it would have some sort of affect
Reliability and durability usually is not a problem with ethanol EFI engines. Ethanol fuel makes far less carbon deposits and don't darken engine oil as petrol does. Otherwise, a real problem is the corrosion in unprotected Petrol carburetors and engine oil contamination.
Ethanol is still corrosive to engines that sit. yes modern engines seem to be able to take it in stride unlike carbureted engines with copper components. But it seems to me that all modern Fuel injected engines don't leave carbon deposits in the oil ethanol has no affect as far as I can tell. I have rebuilt more carburetors in the last 5 years than I have ever had to before. Trucks with fuel systems that haven't been touched in 20 years all of a sudden need to be rebuilt every year. Ethanol is not a miracle fuel and I would go as far to say that this video is sponsored
Look on TH-cam, there's one where they take apart a Chevy SUV, not even flexfuel and engine has no issues
Of course flex fuel engines have no problems there designed to run on ethanol
Personally, and I hope this gets voted up so y'all see it, I don't like the way they're forcing ethanol into the fuel here in the US (E10). A lot of old cars are having issues with only 10% in the fuel. Fuel systems, including carburetors them self are often damaged or destroyed by ethanol. Sometimes it takes years, sometimes less. Ethanol free gas is available, but rare.
If your car is built for it, it's great, if it's not, even E10 is a nightmare. I've taken apart carburetors that sat with E10 in them for a few months and the seals had turned to goo, one even had the float disintegrate.
Don't get me wrong, I love finding alternative fuels, and anything which can put hydrogen into the engine to be burnt other than gasoline is very interesting, but here in the states Ethanol has become a heated debate. Also, I'll never give up my internal explodey goodness for a electric car. Never, ever, ever, ever...
EDIT: I'm also jealous you have higher octane ratings down there...
+Dead Reckon killed my old ute (pick up) :(
+Dead Reckon Not sure about there but here in australia will still have mostly normal petrol with the occasional pump that has e10 or e85. It's also recommended for people to not run ethanol in older cars because that reason, even some older fuel injected ones have problems. If it's being forced upon people over there, then that is really retarded.
Yep, it is. Use to see stickers saying "This product may contain up to 10% ethanol", now it's just "This product contains 10% ethanol", sometimes they just cover up the word "May". Gotta drive the grammar nazi's insane. I never can get a carburetor tuned on that crap. They don't even call it e10, they still call it 87, regular, 89, mid grade, or 93, premium.
I can't really complain though, gas is averaging around $1.84 a gallon where I live, sooo... Bring on the 10% corn 90% dino juice?
+Dead Reckon Ethanol isn't required by the federal government or most state governments in the US. It is, however, ALLOWED by these authorities. Ethanol is cheaper than pure gasoline, so some produces dilute their gas with it, up to 15% as allowed by governments. They have to state that the gas is diluted though. Look around for a bit and you might be surprised to find a fuel station near you that carries pure gasoline. However, also be aware that E85 is legally defined as containing anywhere from 65-85% ethanol.
Also, Australia doesn't have higher octane ratings. They use a different octane scale than the US, which gives higher numbers. Their 98 octane is roughly equivalent to US 93 octane. Look up AKI and RON octane ratings for more information on the topic. If you don't have 93 available, you most likely live in higher elevation, where the tendency to knock is reduced by the lower average atmospheric pressure.
+Dead Reckon Australia doesn't have higher octane fuel ratings, their 98 RON is equivalent to our 93 MON+RON/2 octane rating.
well for one it is not a 100/1 ratio. here in the states we know this well from all of the bootlegging. but, why I chimed in is to ask moot and Marty if they have done any comparison as to fuel economy between the two. this video is one of your best and please keep it up but I would love a follow up with with power comparisons (not in the mini obviously) and economical comparison as well as price of course. all in, a great video and thank you for your time and dedication.
being early to a MCM ep when its only 360p still sucks
Something you didn't discuss but is a big factor, is ethanol's ability to absorb water out of the atmosphere and fall out of solution in mixed fuel supplies. I'm most familiar with E-10 and it's abilities to ruin all kinds of small engines or at the very least, make off-season storage a serious pain in the ass. If you have a can of fuel that isn't 100% sealed, in 3-6 months, it is likely to be trash. That means boats and mowers and trimmers and chainsaws and pressure washers and emergency de-watering pumps and ANYTHING that takes ethanol fuels runs the risk of having contaminated fuel the next time you go to use it. That's one reason ethanol fuels are NOT allowed in aviation.
That 30% loss of energy is a big deal if you want any range out of the tank of fuel you jst bought as well. It's great for short sprints, where carrying 30% more fuel may not matter, but when your Mini can go 300 miles on it's 10 gallons of gasoline but only 200 on E-85, your trip from Melbourne to Cape Coran might not go as smoothly.
+Aaron Barker Range is definitely an issue. We were able to drive Supergramps home from the Sunshine coast to Sydney (1400km) filling up on Ethanol the whole way and only needing 10L from a jerry can to do the trip. We don't really deal with small engines but we have read about issues with storage also.
This documentary actually links to a lot of things i'm revising for science GCSE. I wish there were documentaries like this i could revise from instead of boring textbooks.
Love this documentary. Fun and informative.
Absolutely brilliant educational and inspiring documentary guys shame we don't get e85 more here in the UK. The government makes too much money from the tax on petrol and diesel to start selling it more in my opinion.
Like Triple Play says regarding being viable. We get it in Iowa because it is a big part of our economy. Truth is it just burns cleaner but costs just as much to make as regular fuel due to the process. Therefore it only is viable in locations where the corn is easily accessible, can be locally processed and shipped at a lower cost. It is highly subsidized here too, making it about 40% cheaper than regular fuel. but I still don't use it for more than a fuel system cleaner as it lowers economy and the possibility for long term issues in a non-flex fuel vehicle.
This is y'alls best video yet
Dude I'm gonna convert my race car to E85 it will be awesome!
Then I will use my backup car to drive 200 miles to look for E85 once a month and top up :)
That is all I use in my coon cage and it is so that all one needs to do is change the filter. However fomoco was so inventive in the 60's they never needed a oil change. 139,000 miles 4 quarts amsoil over time. Plus filling filter hey do a normal up keep and as prescribed these panthers last.
why aren't we funding this??????
+carlos mendes Oil companies pay people off to keep hold of the fuel industry.
+carlos mendes because governments would rather tax the hell out of companys that make it than fund it because they get more kickback from the companies that make regular petrol based fuels and the countries that provide them with the oil
+Moto Rad who told you such bullshit? E85 was a failed product in the US. Reason being is the BTU's it contains compared to gasoline and diesel, the amount of crops and land it is currently consuming that is dislocating alot of workers and economies in Brazil with sugar cane crops, in Mexico and Central American with maize/corn crops, and Southwestern USA as well with corn. Ethanol is alcohol, and is nothing new. You can run your car on pure methanol ethanol propanol ETC. To say that oil companies pay people off to keep hold of the fuel industry is beyond absurd. e85 was presented as an alternative biofuel by oil companies. I generally don't argue on youtube, but I have been in my studies for 4+ years on petroleum exploration, and to read such misinformation is beyond me.
cesar enriquez Do you sip your kool aid with your pinky out, or just gulp it?
oh, you own a WRX. bahahhahah.
You guys showed footage near my hometown. In between Cabazon and North Palm springs. Whitewater. That is awesome!
I'm the US 87 is the big seller, our premium is only 91 or 93
Ethanol is not gasoline
It's not "only 91 or 93". Please google AKI vs RON.
@Joseph Gross Go Zoom Zoom? That sound like Mazda 3.
MCM any chance of a Diesel powered build ???
+Yo Singer One day we hope!
Moog? you coming back to taste the diesel? you little corn sniffer ;)
I really like how this video was made. Very informative and not biased toward eco freaks nor oil empires. Great informational video on the pros and cons of a very cool subject
+Ryan Green Brought to you by the Cereal Grain Industry.
+Chris P. Actually, no it wasn't, but thanks for the informed comment all the same.
It sounds great, but for the average joe, Ethanol will provide less power and shorter engine life. Maybe when the whole industry moves to 1-2Liter turbo engines, it will have a more common place in the world... Edit: I love your videos, They are MAD! keep it up!!! You guys are MINT ;)
E-85 is available everywhere where I live
0:05 savage
This has to be the best episode from you guys. Thanks for the "edumication". Keep it guys...
after drinking that did moogs farts sound like a turbo?
+bongcrusha420 More like unicorn vtec fart.
+bongcrusha420 sounded like an anti lag system car doing a launch ^^
Funny how that is, in Sweden we can get E85 almost everywhere. The big issue is that no one uses cars that can burn E85...
+Joakim Sundh Is it true that kids get payed to go to school in Sweden?
+FlightAce100 yes it is :)
Do you guys pay huge taxes then?
+FlightAce100 what to you is huge taxes? i pay 33% of my salary in taxes. but i ger free healthcare and other benefits aswell.
Ye but the state have unfortunately increased the tax on E85 so the price on E85 have increased a lot :/
Chemistry & Heat Engineering... that's a education which brings common sense into lot of things.
im running my 06 legacy on e85 thanks guys
3:44 Holy shiiiiiiit. I live there!!!! Wooooaaahhhhhhh. Broooooooo!!!
Brilliant episode chaps. Your episodes are getting so good (in appearance and execution) you really put a LOT of big budget TV shows to shame.
This was super cool and super interesting!!
Feel free to buy Brazilian ethanol guys, it is good quality and it is pretty much the only thing we can produce in the right way!! :)
TheGoodLife you guys produce good women...
kl163g 😂😂😂😂😂
probably the best MCM episode yet. excellent work lads. :)
The Swedish government just decided to increase taxes on E85 by 1 SEK / liter (roughly 0.1 Euro) which means that now it costs equally much, if not MORE than regular 95 Octane petrol. It was already peaking at 11-12 SEK / liter and now they most definitely killed it for the future...
Aaaaaaand now the tax is gone completely :) Hurray!
i like how moog just has to try again. XD
great video guys. i didnt even know e85 is less fuel efficient than regular gas. that definitely makes me want to get a flex setup instead of just e85
Caltex E-flex is 70% Ethanol, United is 85% Ethanol. Always use United if possible...
+Luke Anderson It depends on the season actually. Summer blend is more, and winter blend is less ethanol in the USA. The higher gasoline content in the winter time helps with cold starts in the colder parts of the USA.
+peniswrinkle Depends what fuel octane they blend it with too.. United e85 is blended with 98 octane petrol
Mighty Car Mods
What do they blend it with in 'Straya?
+peniswrinkle, Yes with some gas stations like Caltex you get 70% to 85% between seasons but with United, they tend to be pretty spot on with 85%... Australia is limited to E85 stations, only Caltex & United, & rare to find E85 at those stations alone...
+Mighty Car Mods, You guys are awesome... May the Road be with you & keep Chopping...
LOL @ Moog's taste test.
This is nice, its looks like this video so proffesional and it should be TV show not TH-cam clip. Great job guys!
do a diesel build. im going to keep hounding you till you do
+dion759 I second that!
dion759 Yep, want to see Scotty tuning a monster Garrett on a truck and getting 1500nm on the dyno. These tiny ricers are starting to get a bit boring.
Cummins, baby!
warriormonx I guess you dont understand what ricers mean then.
First Moog drills through his wrist, now he chugs ethanol. I don't see a very bright future for him XD JK
I dig the bikes you guys always got in the background.
Bring back the Nascarlo! Oh wait... wrong video
+Josh A You, Sir are officially awesome! Have some ethanol (best without fuselöls [12:58])
poor Sheryl
Marty & Moog you guys would be happy to know that the HSC Chemistry course in NSW actually focuses a lot on using ethanol as a renewable bio-alternative to petrochemicals, especially for automobile use. My education has actually helped me in the real world, how nice! :)
+S9732 Have they developed a viable version of pure fuel-grade ethanol that doesn't degrade too quickly to sit in a gas tank? Because I'd rather see vehicles running pure ethanol rather than the compromise that is E85.
Well i don't know 100% of the current technology developments but i do know that at the moment every aspect of the chemistry as well as environmental benefit is there, we are just waiting on the world to get around to dealing with the fact that fossil fuels are running out and the earth is heating up at larger than usual rates. Once the industry realises petrochemicals are a dead future we will see solutions.
S9732 They have. It's just that infrastructure they've built around it is too big to change quickly. The largest problems stopping pure fuel-grade ethanol from being a viable alternative here in the United States is that it's illegal to sell it. Legislation has been proposed and shot down (mostly by BP and Shell) again and again to change this, and a lot of the major institutes for technology always put all of their political power behind allowing pure E100 for cars.
The only thing that's stopping E100 from being used as fuel right now worldwide is the fact that it's like acid to internal fuel components and deteriorates when it sits, which was why I was asking if they've developed an additive to prevent it from becoming a sugary death bomb to the car over time.
Does Cheryl actually exist? You should have an episode with her if she does.
+Dean W no
Mighty Car Mods her brother might get pissed again
+Mighty Car Mods Imaginary girlfriend.
Mighty Car Mods no to the question or the request to do a video with her?
is ethanol the future?
No,hopefully ethanol will be banned from being sold and we can finally get pure gasoline like we've been waiting for.
Marty, you're such a good host and narrator
Sadly you can't buy E85 in England.
+Louis Gordon and sadly E85 is pretty much useless to daily in the north due to the low detonation temperatures.
Apparently morrisons used to sell it but was unpopular 👎🏻
+Vinnie Davis you can always mix ethanol with regular gasoline in order to make it more driveable during winter, if your car has flexifuel sensor
You also need to seal your tank of irbid made from steel else it will rust out over time due to the water content in ethanol.
Jon Laws
this is good info, thanks for sharing
In Europe we love Diesel
+TheSteelGamer We love it in the USA too, but they like to screw us over and charge $5,000 or more for a diesel car which makes people not buy them.
This comment sponsered by Volkswagen
Jack Williams
I put an Isuzu diesel in my chevy S10 4x4 because nobody made it. Got an adapter kit. I love that thing.
Jack Williams just a tip.. VW is not only diesel manufacturer of engines ..
.and id was not only company that cheated on emissions ...
but what are doing here if you care about that ?
peniswrinkle well is same here but only 1000-2000 euro difference ... but still injoy more a diesel engine on my car for long trips . much more torque and excellent fuel economy
Great episode! Love it! Shame we can't get E85 in Alberta - 600,000 square kilometers devoted to growing cattle feed, so it's crazy that we have none!
Has clean & green cars finally arrived?
+Gasinduced what....? did we watch the same video?
Marty's original idea for a YT car show was going to be around eco friendly cars.
Gasinduced what you're saying is going E85 is clean, green and eco friendly?
running E85, because RACECAR!
A tricky subject made much much clearer, thanks guys and keep up the good work!
As a russian, it's entertaining how you guys say vodker xD
how do you pronnounce it in russian?
Same as it's written. Not "vadka" , but vOdka with letter "o" sounding exactly as "o" :)
Yeah, and the worst thing is when they try to "correct" your pronunciation when you're right. No Vehicule Virgins (and a lot of people), it's not "PorschA" it's "PorschE".. x'D
Every Russian I know says it like WADka
So Marty and Moog aren't petrolheads... they're ethanol heads
*methanol
An episode comparing regular to homemade Biodiesel in terms of performance, price etc would be awesome.
who's here just waiting for the number off the mini??