The injector seals on these cars are junk, it can't hold up to standard fuel, what makes you think those tip seals will hold up to e85? You know better. the mk7.5 r already has 5 updates to the injectors... give me a break bud.
Your channel is a big reason why I bought my first VW. Picked up my mk7 Golf R 2 weeks ago and feel confident in doing maintenance myself, with the help of your videos. Thanks from Australia.
But our ethanol(E100) is hydrated and has 5% water in its composition, and because we do not have inspections at the stations, this percentage is often higher, causing several long-term problems. There are many e85 stage 2 cars here in Brazil, and I've never seen any of them having the same problems as cars that use e100
Got a Kroger near me and like all Kroger's they're notorious for always having spot on ethanol content, almost always 85% and sometimes even higher. Biggest benefit to running E in a boosted application is how much more torque you make down low due to the inherit resistance to knock and the more aggressive timing you can put in it, giving you way quicker and aggressive spool that carries all the way through to the limiter. Filling up 2 5 gallon jugs at the pump to take to the track is extremely convenient, too. Once your car is dialed on E you'll never want to pump standard gas again unless it's you're daily.
My first Evo 9 making 768 awhp had a 2.3 striker, 2200cc ID injectors, 3 fuel pumps, and ran e85. I had to have the tank full, and kept 10 gallons in the back seat. All of that I might have got about 180-200 miles. But it was very hard to stay out of boost ;)
Better than my stock Evo X GSR. The stock X i had went about 160 miles out of a tank of gas. My Evo 9 MR which to date was my favorite car i ever owned (had the privilege of owning 4 evo's since 2003) my MR i kept conservative mods only photons and a good tune running 91 pump I made 360awhp with WMI 400. Drove it like that from the 2nd week i bought it (new i. 2006) until i sold it 5 yrs later. ZERO issues. Drove it daily had my kids in it, track days unfortunately i got divorced and needed money so i had to sell it. If you were getting that kind of mileage on E85 with that kind of power that is VERY GOOD. Best tank miles i got out of my 9 was about 220 on a tank making half that power you had and i was on pump 91.
The term flex fuel should only be applied if the car has a content sensor and can run whatever base petrol fuel you want and everything in between full e85, including full e85. without switching maps. Very few offerings are reliable in that setup for VW's on a stock ECU. Also, you can have your car tuned(I do this for my customers) for cruising on any fuel type and get better MPG's if the tuner is knowledgeable, experienced, competent and detail savvy.
In the time-lapse photo at 6:21-6:28, the ethanol is not sucking moisture from the air or even getting condensation running down the sides of the glass container. It appears to have been shaken up with water, as is seen later in the video.
I just finished watching the above video. The negative points made about ethanol are incorrect. 1. The energy content of ethanol versus gasoline in an internal combustion engine is irrelevant. Engine optimization is the key. Engines optimized to run on ethanol will perform equal to or better than the same engine optimized to run on gasoline. Additionally, there are many instances where ethanol-gasoline blends in a gasoline optimized engine will outperform the same engine running on ethanol-free gasoline. 2. Ethanol does not suck water out of the air, it absorbs water that it comes in direct contact with. More importantly, the video spokesman states that ethanol will continue to absorb more and more water the longer it sits there. This is incorrect. Ethanol has a limit to the amount of water that it will absorb, and that limit is actually quite low. 3. Ethanol does not eat fuel system components. Ethanol is compatible with more types of rubber, plastic, and metal than gasoline and aromatics. Viton rubber was invented by Dupont in the 1950s to mitigate the damage done to rubber by gasoline, tetraethyl lead, and ethylene bromide. Ethanol-gasoline blends were not used in North America in those years. My reports cover these issues in great detail: The Irrelevance Of BTU Rating - Big Oil's Gimmick To Hoodwink The Public www.theautochannel.com/news/2015/10/19/144405-irrelevance-btu-rating.html The Irrelevance Of BTU Rating - Revisited www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/07/14/603714-irrelevance-btu-rating-revisited.html Ethanol Does NOT Suck Water Out Of The Air www.theautochannel.com/news/2016/03/18/209988-ethanol-does-not-suck-water-out-air.html Why Do Small Engines Suffer From Ethanol Problems? www.theautochannel.com/news/2015/09/01/140446-why-do-small-engines-suffer-from-ethanol-problems-video.html
Super informative video man! Been watching you for years and recently moved to charlotte and realized thats where you’re located as well 😂 might be stopping by for that flex fuel kit soon 💯
Ethanol on the FSI take a lot more work. You need to do the lines (unlike the 7), HPFP, LPFP, injectors, and aux injectors (MPI). Not worth it. You can take the money you'd need for that (plus a custom tune) and use that as a down payment for a MK7.
@@Peylix I knew I needed the fuel pumps and injectors, but why the fuel lines? Aren't they already lined due to ethanol already being in the states in 05? I'll pass on the mk7 though, I'd rather not have a car payment, and try to afford mods at the same time... Plus isn't the 7 speed dsg is non favorable compared to the 6 speed dsg? All I need is 300 to 400 whp and I'm satisfied. Hell with a stage 1 tune I beat the cars I wanna beat, if anything I'll put a hybrid turbo on it maybe with a air to water setup, a s3 intercooler and just send it. I really want a r32 tbh
@@reidsteph4286 the lines in the older MKV's do not stand up well to full E85. There's a few who have gone down this road on VWvortex and have gone into detail about what it takes. Also, MK7 is the DQ250 6sp. 7.5 is the DQ381 7sp. My 15SE is a 6sp DSG. For your target. Slap a K04 on the car. If you're really wanting to break 400 however. You'll be building your motor. That's why I brought up buying a MK7. The headroom on the FSI is not that great. While you can make them spicy. It starts taking exponentially more funds after 350whp. Like, amounts of cash that can easily get your butt into a 7 and have funds left over for tuning.
Thank you, this is a great video. I knew a little about E85 but this video is really good. This might be something I plan on in the future for my 3.6 Corrado.
good video with good info! been runny flex fuel in my CTSV for a while now, one thing to note is the power difference between e85 and 93 octane will grow with more boost or upgrades as the 93 octane will become even more of a restriction with more boost.
@@Johnny_Chingas13 no, my first tank of e85 was on the dyno. Spent some time draining the tank and filled with pump e70 (that's what the local pump had)
@@josegarcia2014 right on, I've just been doing some research since I seen one of the station down the street from us carries E85. I've read conflicting reviews saying that the LS3 can safely run it without a tune because of its compression ratio and others who say no and to get a tune first.
@@Johnny_Chingas13 compression ratio isn't the big issue, its more on air fuel ratio problem. Running e85 on a 91 or 93 octane tune will be really lean.
@@josegarcia2014 I've read that and seen videos where people show their AFR but they're in older vehicles. What I've also read is that the ECU's in the newer cars will compensate by adding more fuel. Don't know if this is legit info or what as I've read both things.
To run e85 on the MK7 all you need is the hpfp if you are using the stock is20 turbo when you switch to the is38 to run e85 you’ll need both hpfp and lpfp or mpi and lpfp. The hpfp upgrade only without lpfp on the is38 can run up to e50 blend which will max out fueling. MPI is the way to go if you’re going is38 or bigger turbo.
I daily my mk7.5 R on full E85. It gets around 220-295 MPG depending on how I drive. Not bad. I have a few E85 stations near me too so not a hassle to get. I also run it on my 2010 Camaro ss and don’t have to switch tunes/maps if I run 91/E85. Wish COBB came out with their Flex-Fuel support for the MQB platform already 😩
getting between 220 and 295 is a huge difference. Are you actually calculating out the numbers or going off the cars cluster info? Because that cluster dash info is not accurate. People that I know that have tuned cars running E85, usually, Lancer Evo guys, get about 40% less fuel economy. So why yours is only dropping 10% doesn't make sense to me🙄Could be the efficiency of the DI motor? But I'm calling BS on this one🧐
Thank you Paul and a Happy Thanksgiving! Your jokes crack me up every time! You and Charles are the Best VW techs on the East and I’m sure we all appreciate you guys for sharing all your hard work and information with us. Again Thank you and Happy Holidays!
I've been using that Lucas 3X Octane Boost + 91 non-ethanol his past summer in my old Mustang... and she likes it! I'm running a lot more timing with no problems.
You can run a 93 tune using the Lucas booster and 91 octane. The Lucas is good for about a 3 pt increase, using the whole 15oz bottle. Works well when all you can get is 91!
Great info and great video. I don't have e85 or even 93 octane where I live in eastern Canada, 91 at best. Because of this, when I was having my Subaru built I had them install an AEM Methanol/water injection system in it. The way it is set up, my tuner told me it tunes similar to 110 octane racing fuel. I'm running 35 psi with a Garrett GTX3582r gen II on my closed deck ej25 making 619 all-wheel hp. The methanol injection comes on at 10 psi and tapers up to full flow at 25 psi of boost. No idea what size jet they have in it.
I've never watched this channel, I'm assuming it's mostly a German car channel but it's a video about corn and as someone who runs corn I thought I'd chip in what I know. On my LS3 Camaro SS, running e85 I gained 12whp and 9wtq but that was on a mix of e85 and 91 as my tank wasn't completely empty AND my injectors were maxed out with e85. Thankfully it was a flex-fuel tune so I can always switch back to 91 (no 93 in my area) when I know I'm not gonna be running it hard (say when I go on road trips or whatever) If curious my car was running non-catted Long tube headers, CAI, larger throttle body, and e85 so ALMOST full bolt ons making 429whp and 430wtq
Really good info, Being from NY I never wanted to do E85 in my Z as it sits and i have heard a lot of people having issues with starting and it gelling up when it gets really cold.
Lol @ Mr. Lahey falling down the stairs. RIP Jim Dunsworth. Always a pleasure to see a DAP vidja Paul!!! Nice dyno comparison too. You could've jumped the in tank pump and got rid of almost all the 93 into some buckets before pouring the race ethanol into the tank but whatevs... This vid cuts thru the BS and 'splains the pros and cons of running your car on corn, period. Thanks for the laughs as always dude!!👍🤙😎
Been running EQT Stage 2 E85 time for some time now, no complaints at all other than fuel consumption being high 😓 as for power the E85 tune sure does hold power up top as compared to my 93 tune where it would fall on its face past 100mph
@@alexwitachoppa8801 on a full tank of E around 280ish miles, that’s with me not going the speed limit most the time lol I’m sure you could get 300+ miles if you drove normal. I’ve gotten 400 miles on a fuel tank of 93 just the other day.
On a stock Audi RS3 for example, adding 1-1.5 gallons of E85 to a full tank of 93 octane absolutely adds some pep and you minimize any issues by only running an E20 blend per se. 👍💯
To anyone with experience using e85. I just got a f250 and it is a flex fuel. I was just wondering how to properly transition from gas to e85 and I also heard you had to switch back to reg gas when you do a oil change to clean out the engine. I’ve heard stories of people Messing up their fuel lines and it causing misfires. Just don’t want to damage anything but would definitely want to try e85. Any info helps thanks.
here in brazil we make ethanol out of the sugar cane, we have e100 at every station. All cars made for here are flex, even some ckd "produced" here like the bmw active flex f30s and g20s, land rovers, jaguars, mercedes.... But we never had a ea888 flex fuel from the factory, would be amazing if we could buy the car or buy oem parts to convert our mono fuel cars. Such a shame vw never made... fun fact: even koegnissegg made a ccx with a engine map to burn E100 when a costumer here bought a car at the 2010s!
for any car made before ethanol came out it can be a problem any steel gas tanks or metal fuel lines will need to be replaced with modern ethanol friendly ones even for modern cars made to run it if you plan on storing it say over the winter drain the ethanol out and replace it with gas it's better that way on the fuel system it can be a bit tough on the fuel system if left to set with ethanol for a few months . as long as the car is running and driving it's fine it's when it's left dormant for extended periods that it's a problem.
I admire your channel, but your content on this subject is very incomplete. The burn of ethanol is an exothermic chemical reaction followed by an endothermic one, which is the evaporation of water [by-product of ethanol burn] into vapor that absorbs heat inside the combustion chamber. C2H5OH + O2 = CO2 + H2O Therefore ethanol fuel can stand higher compression ratios and ignition advance. Ethanol maxed engines can stand a much higher level of turbo boost. That's why comparing both fuels back-to-back in the same engine won't show the whole picture. You also don't need those complex methanol injection systems - like in the BMW M4 - as water is embedded within the Ethanol molecules. Gasoline is only included in the mix to help the start under 13ºC; help the lubrication of the fuel pump; preserve the rubber hoses. Also ethanol is a oil solvent, therefore your have to change the engine oil more often due to the higher levels of contamination.
Burning any hydrocarbon produces CO2 + H2O. The water vapor produced by the combustion of hydrogen has no latent heat of evaporation. If anything, any condensation of the vapors adds heat to the charge.
Ethanol evaporates much lower than operational oil temperatures. Just like with water, it'll be sent through the pcv system and burnt, as ethanol and water can not remain in a liquid state at those temperatures and pressures. Just drive your car long enough to pass 212° oil temp and neither will be in your oil in significant amounts.
@@otterconnor942 Naive driver here… so are you saying we don’t have to change the oil more often? I’ve got a FlexFuel Tahoe, been using E85 mostly for 7 years now, hope I haven’t caused issues in long run not changing oil more often.? I live in southern and central coast California- if that info means anything. Thx!
I wish mk6 gti could use flex. I heard the fuel system can't support it so people use wmi or auxiliary injection instead =/ I wonder if the mk6 platform can do lower amounts stock like e30 :0
not sure how different the mk6 is but in the mk7s you can run e30 on stock parts. i run e20-e30 all the time especially during the summer on a 91oct stage 2 tune. if running an e30 tune tho you should get an ethanol sensor
With E85 (Ethanol), carbon build up would be significantly less than with pump gas. E85 burns a lot cleaner than pump gas because it doesn't have nearly the amount of petroleum (oil) as gas does.
I've been running an E30 blend about 2 to 3 gallons with the rest 93 octane at fill up for over a year now with success. Mk7 GTI full bolt on GIAC stage 2 tune stock fuel pumps..
Fuel system degradation on modern vehicles may not be a problem but fuel permeation still happens. Before I LS swapped my 2016 BRZ I ran E85 and after a while you could smell and see evidence of permeation on the rubber fuel lines (I didn’t touch the lines, tune only) Whereas when I ran gasoline I never had that come up. When I did the swap I did a custom PTFE fuel system.
Been running e85 in my Mk7.5 for six months and only recently swapped back to 93 as the E near me dropped to 50% winter blend. The car absolutely loves it, unless it’s cold, then starts are a little rough. But other than that the car seems to prefer E to pump gas.
So is your car tuned ? Or did you swap out the fuel pump ? If no, are you saying that you find a performance gain when you put in the e85 on a stock tune ?
@@vroomgc car has multiple flashes depending on what fuel I have available at the time. It 100% has an e85 tune for summer when it’s not garbage winter blend. You can absolutely run a couple gallons on stock tune. If nothing else it will give you a little extra knock resistance. I believe the E limit depending on how robust your particular pump is hovers around 40ish percent. Yes. My car has auto tech internals installed into an OEM pump.
How would you know if the ECU can be set for flex fuel operation? I know that there are add ons that do monitor ethanol content and will compensate for the variations. They're rather pricey though but they allow a wide range of fuels to be used.
Richard Holdener has been seeing really good results dynoing with E85, both American V8's and Hondas. Should also check out the Malakas Motorsports guys, they're running VR6's on E85 (with gigantic injectors and 30psi boost)
I would argue that the "stock tune" on modern cars already corrects AFR using the O2 sensors and seeks optimal timing using knock sensors. To a point, the stock tune is an ethanol blend tune.
Depends on the car model, many (actually I think most) ECUs run without O2 sensor when full throttle, the stock O2 sensor is not wideband enough to work at both low load and full throttle. At full throttle the engine runs from a map and not the O2. Also the AFR needs to be different with E85, so the engine will try and reach gasoline AFR even though it runs on E85. My flexfuel car smokes like a diesel at cold idle, because it is tuned to run on E85 as default, because that is the hardest fuel to coldstart, the ECU in my model then needs to burn the gasoline before it can calculate what fuel it is burning.
Yeah probably fine under normal driving but I would be concerned that under heavy load you would lean out. FYI we logged fuel pressures on e85 on stock tune and it didn’t have an issue keeping the pressures.
Would a ECU tune be necessary to use E15? You mentioned in your video that "early" model years may not be able to handle ethanol but I put E10 in my 2002 Mustang GT ever since I bought it in 2002 and haven't had any fuel line issues. But I do have plans to upgrade the fuel pump, injectors, and fuel line in preparation to install a supercharger.
Holy crap! That's a big boost in power. I noticed Unitronic has some higher ethanol tunes. Too bad it absorbs water so fast though. I was thinking about the clutch prob too as even a stage 2 tune will stress it a bit. Good details and great info, thanks!
The cars internals have been updated since the late 80's early 90's and are able to handle the ethanol. So you could put ethanol in cars from the late 80's early 90's.
People with these direct injection cars need to make hpfp upgrades that flow twice the amount of stock then you should be able to go stage 3 with the proper low pressure upgrades and go back and forth between e85 and premium... mixing e85 is a stupid hassle
FANTASTIC! video, honestly But one thing I didn't grasp from the video.. Once you run flex fuel tune, imagine you JUST finished loading it but you have 93 in the car only, can I add any amount of ethonal to the car? Or does it have to be a certain percentage, and why can't I just run full E85 only on flex fuel? Cheers :)
Hey brother, thank you so much for the video! It was very informative! I have an 01' Trans Am WS6. I was thinking of going flex fuel. Would my fuel lines be at risk of deteriorating?? If so, what fuel line would I need to get to make it work for my application?? Raleigh NC THANK YOU
So i see that you guys offer stage 2 tune with 91-e85 trueflex, but on the IE website it says that it will be available soon. Are you guys still on the beta testing?
Drop an Ear Disappear Shirt
www.shopdap.com/drop-an-ear-and-disapear-e85-tshirt.html
IE Flex Fuel Sensor
www.shopdap.com/ie-trueflex-sensor-harness-for-mqb-engines-ieelci2.html
Integrated Engineering Stage 2 Flex Tune for MK7 GTI (IS20)
www.shopdap.com/iesovn12-stage-2-tune-integrated-engineering.html
Integrated Engineering Stage 2 Flex Tune for MK7 GTI (IS38)
www.shopdap.com/iesovn13-stage-3-tune-integrated-engineering.html
Integrated Engineering Stage 2 Flex Tune for MK7 Golf R (IS38)
www.shopdap.com/iesovn22-stage-2-tune-integrated-engineering.html
The injector seals on these cars are junk, it can't hold up to standard fuel, what makes you think those tip seals will hold up to e85? You know better. the mk7.5 r already has 5 updates to the injectors... give me a break bud.
i love E85 videos. I'll be watching the entire thing and also granting a Like.
I lose an average of 11 MPG on my flex fuel van when running E-85 compared to plain 87 octane gasoline.
This was, by far, the most informative video of E-85 I’ve seen to date.
Thanks. That was the goal!
Are E85/ flex fuel better then 93 in the long run on your engine?
Your channel is a big reason why I bought my first VW. Picked up my mk7 Golf R 2 weeks ago and feel confident in doing maintenance myself, with the help of your videos. Thanks from Australia.
Is it safe to fill a non tuned car with ethanol patrol blend ?
Same, am also in Oz too, with mk7 golf R (stage 2)
@@amirreza1926 a gallon or so is okay. If you aren’t tuned, anymore than that and you will only see degraded fuel mileage and no performance gain
Stay free!
Stay free!
Glad to see this 2.0t survive the dyno
Not sure which is of greater value: The comedy and puns or the education in your videos.
I don't even own a VW, but this is one of my favorite youtube channels. Just so entertaining.
You should consider buying a VW and joining the community! Think about it👍
@@markymarc136 after watching some of the videos here I have thought about it, but my mr2 keeps me poor enough hahah
@@Shiver2002 Good point!
@@Shiver2002 sell the MR2 and profit
@@HardwayLearning with the way they are skyrocketing in value, I want to hold onto it. Plus, it's an absolute riot around the track.
I put an E85 tuner on my 97 BMW R1100 a few weeks ago and it has been working pretty well so far.
Lol I didn't expect the larping joke. Excellent content! I sold my GTI but won't let my DAP subscription go.
This was super informative. I’ve always been a bit leary of E85 but thought it did a good job of laying out the pros and cons.
In Brazil we have Flex Fuel TSI models and they shows lots of high pressure pump and injectors problems with long term ethanol use.
But our ethanol(E100) is hydrated and has 5% water in its composition, and because we do not have inspections at the stations, this percentage is often higher, causing several long-term problems. There are many e85 stage 2 cars here in Brazil, and I've never seen any of them having the same problems as cars that use e100
Hell of a good video. Best explanation of E85/Flex Fuel complications I've yet seen on TH-cam.
Got a Kroger near me and like all Kroger's they're notorious for always having spot on ethanol content, almost always 85% and sometimes even higher. Biggest benefit to running E in a boosted application is how much more torque you make down low due to the inherit resistance to knock and the more aggressive timing you can put in it, giving you way quicker and aggressive spool that carries all the way through to the limiter. Filling up 2 5 gallon jugs at the pump to take to the track is extremely convenient, too. Once your car is dialed on E you'll never want to pump standard gas again unless it's you're daily.
good tip about Krogers
Happy thanksgiving Paul and DAP crew!
this video came out at a perfect time, i googled and watched yt videos for 8 hours yesterday
Again, best content in the whole carssection.
So Volkswagen FSI only needs the high pressure pump? Running a 3.6 here.
2.0t is20 and is38 only need HPFP.
Your videos are funny and informative I really appreciate all your efforts to help us VW/Audi guys
My first Evo 9 making 768 awhp had a 2.3 striker, 2200cc ID injectors, 3 fuel pumps, and ran e85. I had to have the tank full, and kept 10 gallons in the back seat. All of that I might have got about 180-200 miles. But it was very hard to stay out of boost ;)
Better than my stock Evo X GSR. The stock X i had went about 160 miles out of a tank of gas. My Evo 9 MR which to date was my favorite car i ever owned (had the privilege of owning 4 evo's since 2003) my MR i kept conservative mods only photons and a good tune running 91 pump I made 360awhp with WMI 400. Drove it like that from the 2nd week i bought it (new i. 2006) until i sold it 5 yrs later. ZERO issues. Drove it daily had my kids in it, track days unfortunately i got divorced and needed money so i had to sell it. If you were getting that kind of mileage on E85 with that kind of power that is VERY GOOD. Best tank miles i got out of my 9 was about 220 on a tank making half that power you had and i was on pump 91.
Lies
@@wedrivebynight how?
As someone with a big turbo Mk7 Golf R (EFR7163) on a custom UM Flex Fuel tune: worth every penny. Smiles per gallon > miles per gallon.
I wonder how many stopped watching at 2:50 and just went and put e85 in their car. lol Nice work on this one.
Was looking for this right after Paul made the comment 😂
The term flex fuel should only be applied if the car has a content sensor and can run whatever base petrol fuel you want and everything in between full e85, including full e85. without switching maps. Very few offerings are reliable in that setup for VW's on a stock ECU.
Also, you can have your car tuned(I do this for my customers) for cruising on any fuel type and get better MPG's if the tuner is knowledgeable, experienced, competent and detail savvy.
In the time-lapse photo at 6:21-6:28, the ethanol is not sucking moisture from the air or even getting condensation running down the sides of the glass container. It appears to have been shaken up with water, as is seen later in the video.
I just finished watching the above video. The negative points made about ethanol are incorrect.
1. The energy content of ethanol versus gasoline in an internal combustion engine is irrelevant. Engine optimization is the key. Engines optimized to run on ethanol will perform equal to or better than the same engine optimized to run on gasoline. Additionally, there are many instances where ethanol-gasoline blends in a gasoline optimized engine will outperform the same engine running on ethanol-free gasoline.
2. Ethanol does not suck water out of the air, it absorbs water that it comes in direct contact with. More importantly, the video spokesman states that ethanol will continue to absorb more and more water the longer it sits there. This is incorrect. Ethanol has a limit to the amount of water that it will absorb, and that limit is actually quite low.
3. Ethanol does not eat fuel system components. Ethanol is compatible with more types of rubber, plastic, and metal than gasoline and aromatics. Viton rubber was invented by Dupont in the 1950s to mitigate the damage done to rubber by gasoline, tetraethyl lead, and ethylene bromide. Ethanol-gasoline blends were not used in North America in those years.
My reports cover these issues in great detail:
The Irrelevance Of BTU Rating - Big Oil's Gimmick To Hoodwink The Public
www.theautochannel.com/news/2015/10/19/144405-irrelevance-btu-rating.html
The Irrelevance Of BTU Rating - Revisited
www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/07/14/603714-irrelevance-btu-rating-revisited.html
Ethanol Does NOT Suck Water Out Of The Air
www.theautochannel.com/news/2016/03/18/209988-ethanol-does-not-suck-water-out-air.html
Why Do Small Engines Suffer From Ethanol Problems?
www.theautochannel.com/news/2015/09/01/140446-why-do-small-engines-suffer-from-ethanol-problems-video.html
Paul you got the best VW enthusiast channel hands down. (Charles’ is pretty good too I guess lol)
Happy to see you guys embracing IE.
Paul is a man of the people. Uni dealer, he’s in the EQT Facebook group, IE car for content
I had a full e85 mk7.5 gti with a cobb protune and it was a serious monster.
Super informative video man! Been watching you for years and recently moved to charlotte and realized thats where you’re located as well 😂 might be stopping by for that flex fuel kit soon 💯
Maybe the most info packed and well presented Dummies version of this info I've seen?
Y'all should do e85 test with the mk5 fsi. I'm in Fayetteville NC and love to see y'all for that tune!
303 LETSSS GOOOO
@@LuisNunez210 910 here!
Ethanol on the FSI take a lot more work. You need to do the lines (unlike the 7), HPFP, LPFP, injectors, and aux injectors (MPI). Not worth it. You can take the money you'd need for that (plus a custom tune) and use that as a down payment for a MK7.
@@Peylix I knew I needed the fuel pumps and injectors, but why the fuel lines? Aren't they already lined due to ethanol already being in the states in 05? I'll pass on the mk7 though, I'd rather not have a car payment, and try to afford mods at the same time... Plus isn't the 7 speed dsg is non favorable compared to the 6 speed dsg? All I need is 300 to 400 whp and I'm satisfied. Hell with a stage 1 tune I beat the cars I wanna beat, if anything I'll put a hybrid turbo on it maybe with a air to water setup, a s3 intercooler and just send it. I really want a r32 tbh
@@reidsteph4286 the lines in the older MKV's do not stand up well to full E85. There's a few who have gone down this road on VWvortex and have gone into detail about what it takes.
Also, MK7 is the DQ250 6sp. 7.5 is the DQ381 7sp.
My 15SE is a 6sp DSG.
For your target. Slap a K04 on the car. If you're really wanting to break 400 however. You'll be building your motor.
That's why I brought up buying a MK7. The headroom on the FSI is not that great. While you can make them spicy. It starts taking exponentially more funds after 350whp. Like, amounts of cash that can easily get your butt into a 7 and have funds left over for tuning.
Thank you, this is a great video. I knew a little about E85 but this video is really good. This might be something I plan on in the future for my 3.6 Corrado.
good video with good info! been runny flex fuel in my CTSV for a while now, one thing to note is the power difference between e85 and 93 octane will grow with more boost or upgrades as the 93 octane will become even more of a restriction with more boost.
Curious, did you start running E85 before tuning?
@@Johnny_Chingas13 no, my first tank of e85 was on the dyno. Spent some time draining the tank and filled with pump e70 (that's what the local pump had)
@@josegarcia2014 right on, I've just been doing some research since I seen one of the station down the street from us carries E85. I've read conflicting reviews saying that the LS3 can safely run it without a tune because of its compression ratio and others who say no and to get a tune first.
@@Johnny_Chingas13 compression ratio isn't the big issue, its more on air fuel ratio problem. Running e85 on a 91 or 93 octane tune will be really lean.
@@josegarcia2014 I've read that and seen videos where people show their AFR but they're in older vehicles. What I've also read is that the ECU's in the newer cars will compensate by adding more fuel. Don't know if this is legit info or what as I've read both things.
To run e85 on the MK7 all you need is the hpfp if you are using the stock is20 turbo when you switch to the is38 to run e85 you’ll need both hpfp and lpfp or mpi and lpfp. The hpfp upgrade only without lpfp on the is38 can run up to e50 blend which will max out fueling. MPI is the way to go if you’re going is38 or bigger turbo.
I daily my mk7.5 R on full E85. It gets around 220-295 MPG depending on how I drive. Not bad. I have a few E85 stations near me too so not a hassle to get. I also run it on my 2010 Camaro ss and don’t have to switch tunes/maps if I run 91/E85. Wish COBB came out with their Flex-Fuel support for the MQB platform already 😩
I'm in CA, since I only have 91oct I blend e85 and use Cobb stage 3 93 oct map on my mk7 gli. Runs good!
Integrated engineering has one
Yeah I'm waiting for COBB to release E85 support too. Have they said anything about their progress on that?
you suit what mpg now 😀
getting between 220 and 295 is a huge difference. Are you actually calculating out the numbers or going off the cars cluster info? Because that cluster dash info is not accurate. People that I know that have tuned cars running E85, usually, Lancer Evo guys, get about 40% less fuel economy. So why yours is only dropping 10% doesn't make sense to me🙄Could be the efficiency of the DI motor? But I'm calling BS on this one🧐
Thank you Paul and a Happy Thanksgiving! Your jokes crack me up every time! You and Charles are the Best VW techs on the East and I’m sure we all appreciate you guys for sharing all your hard work and information with us. Again Thank you and Happy Holidays!
Love the content...from Wisconsin! Was that Charles I saw?
Love the part where you mentioned 'larping as a technician' and showed the clip from the Mastodon video in the background...lol
I've been using that Lucas 3X Octane Boost + 91 non-ethanol his past summer in my old Mustang... and she likes it!
I'm running a lot more timing with no problems.
You can run a 93 tune using the Lucas booster and 91 octane. The Lucas is good for about a 3 pt increase, using the whole 15oz bottle. Works well when all you can get is 91!
Great info and great video. I don't have e85 or even 93 octane where I live in eastern Canada, 91 at best. Because of this, when I was having my Subaru built I had them install an AEM Methanol/water injection system in it. The way it is set up, my tuner told me it tunes similar to 110 octane racing fuel. I'm running 35 psi with a Garrett GTX3582r gen II on my closed deck ej25 making 619 all-wheel hp. The methanol injection comes on at 10 psi and tapers up to full flow at 25 psi of boost. No idea what size jet they have in it.
I've never watched this channel, I'm assuming it's mostly a German car channel but it's a video about corn and as someone who runs corn I thought I'd chip in what I know. On my LS3 Camaro SS, running e85 I gained 12whp and 9wtq but that was on a mix of e85 and 91 as my tank wasn't completely empty AND my injectors were maxed out with e85. Thankfully it was a flex-fuel tune so I can always switch back to 91 (no 93 in my area) when I know I'm not gonna be running it hard (say when I go on road trips or whatever)
If curious my car was running non-catted Long tube headers, CAI, larger throttle body, and e85
so ALMOST full bolt ons making 429whp and 430wtq
I recognize that dyno! lol..i'm from Winston. Cool vid btw, very very informative! I love at 2door mk7 gti, Happy Turkey Day Paul!
Really good info, Being from NY I never wanted to do E85 in my Z as it sits and i have heard a lot of people having issues with starting and it gelling up when it gets really cold.
I live in a place where I can only get 91 octane fuel, but we do have E85. Should I put a bit of E85 to bump the octane of the fuel when I fill up?
Dont get e85 without a tune (ik im 2 years late)
Lol @ Mr. Lahey falling down the stairs. RIP Jim Dunsworth. Always a pleasure to see a DAP vidja Paul!!! Nice dyno comparison too. You could've jumped the in tank pump and got rid of almost all the 93 into some buckets before pouring the race ethanol into the tank but whatevs... This vid cuts thru the BS and 'splains the pros and cons of running your car on corn, period. Thanks for the laughs as always dude!!👍🤙😎
Reflect tuning in Winston Salem NC, best tuner in NC for foreign cars💯🤝
thanks for putting in the work on this video. this is a lot of info that some tuner bros will ignore and blow up their cars
That answered all of my questions, thank you!
Been running EQT Stage 2 E85 time for some time now, no complaints at all other than fuel consumption being high 😓 as for power the E85 tune sure does hold power up top as compared to my 93 tune where it would fall on its face past 100mph
do you know how many miles you’d get on a full tank
@@alexwitachoppa8801 on a full tank of E around 280ish miles, that’s with me not going the speed limit most the time lol I’m sure you could get 300+ miles if you drove normal. I’ve gotten 400 miles on a fuel tank of 93 just the other day.
@@zeke6541 where do you live? I'm in NY and have likely questionable E85. I'm considering the EQT E85 map myself.
On a stock Audi RS3 for example, adding 1-1.5 gallons of E85 to a full tank of 93 octane absolutely adds some pep and you minimize any issues by only running an E20 blend per se.
👍💯
This video is very high quality
To anyone with experience using e85. I just got a f250 and it is a flex fuel. I was just wondering how to properly transition from gas to e85 and I also heard you had to switch back to reg gas when you do a oil change to clean out the engine. I’ve heard stories of people Messing up their fuel lines and it causing misfires. Just don’t want to damage anything but would definitely want to try e85. Any info helps thanks.
here in brazil we make ethanol out of the sugar cane, we have e100 at every station. All cars made for here are flex, even some ckd "produced" here like the bmw active flex f30s and g20s, land rovers, jaguars, mercedes.... But we never had a ea888 flex fuel from the factory, would be amazing if we could buy the car or buy oem parts to convert our mono fuel cars. Such a shame vw never made...
fun fact: even koegnissegg made a ccx with a engine map to burn E100 when a costumer here bought a car at the 2010s!
thank you great info
for any car made before ethanol came out it can be a problem any steel gas tanks or metal fuel lines will need to be replaced with modern ethanol friendly ones even for modern cars made to run it if you plan on storing it say over the winter drain the ethanol out and replace it with gas it's better that way on the fuel system it can be a bit tough on the fuel system if left to set with ethanol for a few months . as long as the car is running and driving it's fine it's when it's left dormant for extended periods that it's a problem.
New camera be hittin' different
Great info... I'm full apr2 stock turbo gti... Been wondering if I could use a small % of e85 for spirited driving days.....
I always loved how GTI's produce far more torque to power ratio and makes it feel so much powerful than what it is
That doesn’t make sense and they don’t make more torque to power than many other cars. It’s fast because it’s a 3 thousand pound car
No fuel system upgrades needed on 5.0s luckily! Runs so much better on E85
Same for ecos?
I admire your channel, but your content on this subject is very incomplete.
The burn of ethanol is an exothermic chemical reaction followed by an endothermic one, which is the evaporation of water [by-product of ethanol burn] into vapor that absorbs heat inside the combustion chamber.
C2H5OH + O2 = CO2 + H2O
Therefore ethanol fuel can stand higher compression ratios and ignition advance.
Ethanol maxed engines can stand a much higher level of turbo boost.
That's why comparing both fuels back-to-back in the same engine won't show the whole picture.
You also don't need those complex methanol injection systems - like in the BMW M4 - as water is embedded within the Ethanol molecules.
Gasoline is only included in the mix to help the start under 13ºC; help the lubrication of the fuel pump; preserve the rubber hoses.
Also ethanol is a oil solvent, therefore your have to change the engine oil more often due to the higher levels of contamination.
Burning any hydrocarbon produces CO2 + H2O. The water vapor produced by the combustion of hydrogen has no latent heat of evaporation. If anything, any condensation of the vapors adds heat to the charge.
Ethanol evaporates much lower than operational oil temperatures. Just like with water, it'll be sent through the pcv system and burnt, as ethanol and water can not remain in a liquid state at those temperatures and pressures. Just drive your car long enough to pass 212° oil temp and neither will be in your oil in significant amounts.
@@otterconnor942 Naive driver here… so are you saying we don’t have to change the oil more often? I’ve got a FlexFuel Tahoe, been using E85 mostly for 7 years now, hope I haven’t caused issues in long run not changing oil more often.? I live in southern and central coast California- if that info means anything. Thx!
Happy thanksgiving Paul. Nice video👏👏
I wish mk6 gti could use flex. I heard the fuel system can't support it so people use wmi or auxiliary injection instead =/ I wonder if the mk6 platform can do lower amounts stock like e30 :0
not sure how different the mk6 is but in the mk7s you can run e30 on stock parts. i run e20-e30 all the time especially during the summer on a 91oct stage 2 tune. if running an e30 tune tho you should get an ethanol sensor
@@c0Ld whats your ltft look like running e30 on a 91 tune? 15-20%?
@@MaxiimTribe Cant tell you as i've never monitored it before
@@c0Ld oof
@@vinceis4lovers hm?
Did my IE zf8 tcu and 93 stage 1 on my A7 last week. Waiting until after winter to flash the e85 file.
Thx so much for a great video packed full of great info! Your GTI is looking sweet!!
"Wildly educational award winning documentary Moonshiners" was priceless.
LMFAO
Very, very rich information. Thank you
Brilliant video Paul!
Happy Thanksgiving Shop Dap.
I’m interested to see the carbon build up on these cars vs pump gas
With E85 (Ethanol), carbon build up would be significantly less than with pump gas. E85 burns a lot cleaner than pump gas because it doesn't have nearly the amount of petroleum (oil) as gas does.
I've been running an E30 blend about 2 to 3 gallons with the rest 93 octane at fill up for over a year now with success. Mk7 GTI full bolt on GIAC stage 2 tune stock fuel pumps..
Is your stage 2 tuned for 93 or e30?
@@Kevin117 I have a GIAC stage 2 93 octane tune. With GIAC 93 tunes you can safely run no more than 3 gallons E30 when filling up my tank..
Fuel system degradation on modern vehicles may not be a problem but fuel permeation still happens. Before I LS swapped my 2016 BRZ I ran E85 and after a while you could smell and see evidence of permeation on the rubber fuel lines (I didn’t touch the lines, tune only) Whereas when I ran gasoline I never had that come up. When I did the swap I did a custom PTFE fuel system.
Been running e85 in my Mk7.5 for six months and only recently swapped back to 93 as the E near me dropped to 50% winter blend. The car absolutely loves it, unless it’s cold, then starts are a little rough. But other than that the car seems to prefer E to pump gas.
So is your car tuned ? Or did you swap out the fuel pump ? If no, are you saying that you find a performance gain when you put in the e85 on a stock tune ?
@@vroomgc car has multiple flashes depending on what fuel I have available at the time. It 100% has an e85 tune for summer when it’s not garbage winter blend.
You can absolutely run a couple gallons on stock tune. If nothing else it will give you a little extra knock resistance.
I believe the E limit depending on how robust your particular pump is hovers around 40ish percent.
Yes. My car has auto tech internals installed into an OEM pump.
@@vinceis4lovers Cool stuff, sounds like a good setup !
My car feels better on a e30 tune. I dont know why, I can’t explain it, but my car feels cracked out on 93. More power and smoother on e30
I gotta say those are damn impressive numbers on an is20 and e55-e57 fuel. That IE tune seems to really be good. Is this still Beta?
I need to know where those stations are around Charlotte. Having my Focus RS dyno tuned for E85 next week.
Thanks for the detailed info. Do you know why in Europe they do not recommend Flexfuel for direct injected engines?
How would you know if the ECU can be set for flex fuel operation? I know that there are add ons that do monitor ethanol content and will compensate for the variations. They're rather pricey though but they allow a wide range of fuels to be used.
Totally want a tshirt! Prolly won’t make the switch to E85 anytime soon, but that is a cool shirt.
Richard Holdener has been seeing really good results dynoing with E85, both American V8's and Hondas. Should also check out the Malakas Motorsports guys, they're running VR6's on E85 (with gigantic injectors and 30psi boost)
I would argue that the "stock tune" on modern cars already corrects AFR using the O2 sensors and seeks optimal timing using knock sensors. To a point, the stock tune is an ethanol blend tune.
Depends on the car model, many (actually I think most) ECUs run without O2 sensor when full throttle, the stock O2 sensor is not wideband enough to work at both low load and full throttle.
At full throttle the engine runs from a map and not the O2.
Also the AFR needs to be different with E85, so the engine will try and reach gasoline AFR even though it runs on E85.
My flexfuel car smokes like a diesel at cold idle, because it is tuned to run on E85 as default, because that is the hardest fuel to coldstart, the ECU in my model then needs to burn the gasoline before it can calculate what fuel it is burning.
Yeah probably fine under normal driving but I would be concerned that under heavy load you would lean out.
FYI we logged fuel pressures on e85 on stock tune and it didn’t have an issue keeping the pressures.
Would a ECU tune be necessary to use E15? You mentioned in your video that "early" model years may not be able to handle ethanol but I put E10 in my 2002 Mustang GT ever since I bought it in 2002 and haven't had any fuel line issues. But I do have plans to upgrade the fuel pump, injectors, and fuel line in preparation to install a supercharger.
did the GTI come from VW being ready to run E85 or was it upgraded prior to the video? I didn't think VW's came from the factory able to use E85.
You're not supposed to. I think he flashed it after
Since I have an 02 GTI, I assume degraded fuel lines are going to be a problem for me
Holy crap! That's a big boost in power. I noticed Unitronic has some higher ethanol tunes. Too bad it absorbs water so fast though. I was thinking about the clutch prob too as even a stage 2 tune will stress it a bit. Good details and great info, thanks!
Now I know why the crows won't GMO corn, it's for the car not for dinner.
Hilarious but true.
I live in green bay Wisconsin and when he said Wisconsin I was definitely caught off guard 😂 definitely cold and snowy here though
The cars internals have been updated since the late 80's early 90's and are able to handle the ethanol. So you could put ethanol in cars from the late 80's early 90's.
Great job guys!
People with these direct injection cars need to make hpfp upgrades that flow twice the amount of stock then you should be able to go stage 3 with the proper low pressure upgrades and go back and forth between e85 and premium... mixing e85 is a stupid hassle
nice video. If it was Charles, he would have make 5-6 videos out of this one video
Is the new high pressure fuel pump internals a necessary purchase?
I know this is an old video but I have a 06 Audi A3. My question is. . . Can I pump e85 if I upgrade my mechanical pump? And of course tune it.
Can E85 sludge/gum build-up in the HPFP occur in these VW's? or is that only in older vehicles with hpfp's?
no it cleans deposits
Does the GTI have a port injection or a GDI engine? I heard that the high pressure fuel pump doesn't like alcohol which provides less lubrication.
Really enjoyed that video
Anyone ever heard about SAAB Biopower? SAAB solved the problems of the E85/Gasoline mixture long ago before every other car brand.
Vilket jävla namn xD
@@Samadork bästa namnet, ingen kan slå det. En gammal mail jag har heter även Bajsglufsarmorfar. Den är mäktigare än Ryssland.
Great video. Great explanation. Cheers!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wait you can run straight e70 to e85 in a stock gti??
Awesome video!!
Love the video!
FANTASTIC! video, honestly
But one thing I didn't grasp from the video.. Once you run flex fuel tune, imagine you JUST finished loading it but you have 93 in the car only, can I add any amount of ethonal to the car? Or does it have to be a certain percentage, and why can't I just run full E85 only on flex fuel?
Cheers :)
Any amount it senses how much ethanol and adjust if it’s a flex tune.
Hey brother, thank you so much for the video! It was very informative! I have an 01' Trans Am WS6. I was thinking of going flex fuel. Would my fuel lines be at risk of deteriorating?? If so, what fuel line would I need to get to make it work for my application?? Raleigh NC THANK YOU
Hmm, IE's site states that support is coming soon for the trueflex sensor for stage 2 GTIs?
So i see that you guys offer stage 2 tune with 91-e85 trueflex, but on the IE website it says that it will be available soon. Are you guys still on the beta testing?
Yes