19:21 - I long for the day when one of these boards finally has the software to bring out the best in the hardware (especially in Linux, where we could actually do things with it, instead of Android).
Sadly by the time you get a stable platform getting close to using the onboard feature set to its full, the next generation of the platform has come along with all new hardware to optimise drivers and distracts those who would be tweaking and edging out that 1% more, shift to the new stuff as for the same effort they can get that extra 10% more as early days to shine. Besides, people like new things. Rinse repeat. A ZX81 would be running power stations today if we stuck with it. :)
@@PaulGrayUK why go so advanced as a zx81 you can run a power station on an AGC with with about a cubic foot or two of LOL Memory, or you take that zx81 and try training a confrontational bidirectional recurrent neural network on several petabytes of video, good luck living to see the output. Old != Better no matter how much you wish it was, there's only so much that something can do no matter how optimised.
When it comes to videos introducing SBCs etc Mr Barnatt sets the standard. Other channels are not bad, but i often find myself wishing for the clarity of the video work and commentary which is provided so effortlessly by Explaining Computers. Keep up the good work!
Indeed. This is what keeps me coming back for more :) Sadly, there are a lot of people who don't have patience for this style of video, but I love how it's quite methodical and always answers the little questions I have about a particular board. Often better than the manufacturer's own documentation.
I like how Mr Barnatt treats things with respect. Don’t you hate it when TH-camrs throwing things (probably from sponsors) on the table during unboxing videos to try to look cool?
Well, in the words of the firmware, "OoWow". This looks like a game-changer in the world of SBCs. Willing to bet this is the watershed moment where all SBCs will start including some sort of BIOS/Firmware from now on. Can't wait to get my hands on one of these.
@@karimjordan9461 if you mean NOOBS, that's just a tiny operating system that does more or less what Oowow does. The point is that NOOBS has to be written to an SD card, just like any other Pi OS. It isn't firmware and, more importantly, it doesn't include Tetris!
@@johnm2012 No, there is beta firmware that downloads rpi-installer, (not NOOBS). This can write the OS to any attached storage. Unfortunately the RPi4 doesn't include eMMC so an SD card or use storage is needed.
On a side note, it is of course obvious, however when someone with disastrous narrative style such as this typist can at least recognize superb narrative style, it speaks more to the speaker than the listener. Thanks for another informative video.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're not allowed to distribute the playstore portion. I know some Chinese phones come with their own app managers and don't have playstore even though they run android. On one of those that I have you could install playstore from an apk though and it seems to work fine. Thank you Chris for the fine segment as usual. Consistently both a top and accessible channel for this type of content.
Well done khadas letting users choose their exposure to malicious software as google playstore / play services. Highly interesting with a virus free android.
I wish I knew what you know. That's all I can say. About a decade ago or more, I knew some things, but I got out of building computers and so much has changed, that I'm lost now. I used to build about 5 to 6 computers a year just for fun and sell them for what I had in them. I haven't done that in years, and now I have no clue about anything. I'm subscribed and I'll keep watching and maybe I'll be able to catch up.
It's a shame: I was checking out different channels on SBCs the other day, just to find out, that the first channel that I have subscribed to, namely Explaining Computers, is simply the best one. Chris has just the best hands-on-mentality and I dig the pace of his reviews. It's relaxing as well as very infomative... Thank you very much for everything you do here! And, yes, I totally agree: It is a shame that software lags so much behind hardware these days, very similar to the beginnings. The big problem seems to be, that nobody would invest in software on such a cheap hardware. Imagine somebody would buy a licence of an OS for 150€ :D Maybe there was a market for that. I would love to see an in depth video about this issue...
That is an interesting point you made, maybe you should do something like a six month, year, and two year retrospect of these single processors. Since these are less mainstream they may not get the attention they deserve. You could also include comparison to earlier iterations.
It seems to ship quite quickly to the US from China. I ordered mine last week, and it already made it to the O'Hare International Airport a few days ago.
Long time no see :) been out of the loop, just saw this what a great video! The future is looking bright for SBC's! Would loge to see a cluster of these!
very interesting SBC, only issue I would have is the price point. But thanks for the introduction to the Khadas VIM 4. Until next time have a great day.
Thank you Chris, that was most interesting. That is quite a capable computer. Concerning all the product features without support that you mention, have you considered doing a few follow-up reviews of such products? As a person of constrained finances, I am cautious about buying products that have relatively poor support for hardware elements that form the basis of the company's marketing. I first ran into this with my Odroid C2. That SBC is now running a later and Odroid oriented version of LibreELEC (CoreELEC) very well. But when I received it, that machine/environment was not a particularly stable solution, and Debian was not functional at all. There are other manufacturers that do not seem to keep up the process of supporting their hardware, and you are one of the few people who are in a position to tell us buyers about the progress, or otherwise.
I don't even know how you remained that calm when explaining it's specifications at the start.. it's beautiful 😁 pricey but nice.. (hahaha, strange, un-cleanable finger print.. it's like it's been touched by Zeus himself).. I'm thinking it looks good for a car media center.. because of the accelerometer and CSI camera inputs.. display output.. OS looks really responsive. Oowow is the future for sure, wonder if the source can be a local NAS.. Anyway, excellent vid as always, cheers ☕
Most major league pimps have been planning to upgrade to these after what went down in the hood last summer. OG's my not have much use for the HDMI input, but the younger G's will I'm sure. Thanks for the great review. 5000.
Now this new SBC has me very interested. Would live to see more on what it can do. I’m hoping you will have a follow up video in the work Chris. What a nice way to your Sunday morning, a new SBC review from EC. Thanks as always.
Thanks for this. I will indeed return to this board when (if!) there is software support for the HDMI input in Linux, and/or better software support in Android. Lots of possibilities for video capture, streaming, etc.
Thanks for another great review of the latest VIM 4 SBC. After the hardware has been developed I am sure there is a scramble to provide software support for such things as HDMI input on Ubuntu and the Play store on Android... As SBCs become more powerful they will have wider applications for edge computing, which will be great to see.
14:31 - Because of the chip shortage, and subsequent mark up off all such products, the RP4 is only slightly better at the price-to-performance ratio. A RP4 8GB board is going for $180 now on Amazon.
@@ExplainingComputers Yeah. I should have put the qualifier in that _available_ RP4s are going for almost $200 right now. The official resellers listed in their website are both OOS, and RP4s are currently going for around $180 on both eBay and Amazon.
@@welshtechie6832 This is not entirely true. All official Pi retailers continue to get intermittend stock, which they sell at the official prices. Those wishing to buy need to click the "register interest" or "notify me" or similar buttons on official retailer websites, when stock comes it, they will be first in line. People do continue to purchase Pis at the normal prices in this manner, as many have reported in comments on this channel.
@@ExplainingComputers Nice. So you're basically put on a waiting list? So I guess the markup is a "fee" if you want to get it right away. I imagine there are people taking advantage of the shortage and buying up a lot of these and then turn around and resell at 2x the cost.
Automatic network installation of operating system does reduces the barrier for entry a lot, But one should have extraordinary trust on the brand to install OS without any possible means of verification; In the age of NixOS it's a steep drawback for power users. Great video as always Chris!
you totally right , oowow also have this possibility to install os like fedora ubuntu armbian debian etc from official sources , but at this moment linux kernel form official distros not ready, hope will be soon too
Very impressive SBC, and the OOWOW firmware is genius. May not be ready for primetime with no HDMI input in Ubuntu and no apps in Android, although hopefully Khadas is working on those :)
I really enjoyed the fact, that you really give all the information here. I hope they get the GPU drivers as well as the HDMI IN fixed for Ubuntu and an Android image with the Playstore (or at least the option thereof without all the hassles) would be a nice bonus. Certainly looks awesome especially if one wants to just do some work. I could imagine my daughter having this for her school - attached to a monitor and with a keyboard and mouse. I think it should be possible to run Teams on Linux since it's Electron-based, though I wouldn't count on it without checking. But the rest seems fast and snappy. I like it!
Thanks - for me, one of the most interesting of your recent videos. The way to produce drivers for new SBCs (and anything else) is probably to get an AI to do it - after all, one HDMI input port surely can't be that much different from another in terms of what functions it can perform. Hardware designers appear to be able to put quite large-scale chunks of functionality together quite quickly and easily. Software designers arguably have a much up harder job because they have to produce stuff that we humans can work with. But a *driver* ? Surely more like a bit of hardware really, perhaps the industry is going the wrong way about it.
Seems to me like there’s a gap in the market for the RPi foundation to fill. A 100-$150 SBC that has all of these h/w features PLUS their established s/w, knowledge and community support. It could be as different to the current Rpi-4 as the Pico is.
I agree. The current Pi4 is just a bit too slow for desktop use. It's fine for programming but not fine for youtube and the like. I'd pay $150 for a PI4 sized PI supported board with twice the horse power.
I'm hoping when the pi5 rolls around we'll have a zero3W, normal pi 5, and a pi5+. They could segment by RAM and maybe onboard EMMC or exposed PCIE, as well as by computing power.
Getting hold of fast ARM CPUs isn't always easy. Qualcomm reserve the best CPUs for premium phones. So you either have to spend a fortune baking your own chips or settle for something lower specced. It's annoying to have so much power in phones barely being used by most users.
well, seeing it in those terms, you are correct, but rpi was never aiming to create such market, so their products do not fit there well, perhaps is time for them to release a similarly speced sbc at 100 dollars and leave the 50 dollars for the basic pi4 style board the market seems to love the offerings, but the 200 dollars price here is pushing a bit too far i believe, but a 100 dollars market i think that does exist
As cool as this board is with what appears to be a great SoC and that amazing oowow firmware I won't be buying any SBC again until they have fully working Linux distros available at launch. I have a drawer full of SBCs that were awesome when they came out and yet their usefulness is nearly nonexistent because of terrible Linux support. With the Vim4 at $200+ I might as well turn my attention to used SFF PC's where I know that I'll have no OS limitations.
I think that people kinda miss the point of SBCs. If you want a server go buy old desktops, mini PCs or an actual server. They're cheaper faster and some of them use less power. The thing with SBCs are that they're embedded Linux. To do the coolest stuff you absolutely 100% have to get comfortable with kernel stuff. SBCs are also good for talking to low level devices over SPI and I2C. However, back in the day I had to cross compile a custom Kernel and write a device tree overlay just to get an I2c device to show up as a standard keyboard under Linux. It's not hard especially these days with all of the documentation but it isn't for the faint of heart. The point I'm getting at is this. I'm frustrated that so many people go out and buy SBCs to run as a media server, pi hole or wasteful K8s cluster. There soooo many more options out there that do that job way better. People buy these things by the crate load and they all end up in a drawer somewhere because people just don't understand what these things are designed for. Now the prices are sky high and they're out of stock everywhere. It'd be really cool to release an open source midi controller based on the pi4 or cm4 but with prices this high what's the point!? Anyway, if you've come this far here's the embedded Linux secret: do it from scratch. Build your own kernel and software turn it into an image and you're good to go!!! There's tools that help you do that. I used Yocto back in the day but I'm sure there's better stuff out there. Also, not having play store is a huge plus. Hopefully there's none of the other Google crap to. I like this thing a lot. I just which it was cheaper. Anyway for what it's worth base images are just a starting point. You should really rebuild them to do what you want.
Your enthusiasm is great Christopher, a great intro to the Vim 4. As a side note, I think the image of you sat at your desk is a good look, more of it please! :-)
Thanks for this. The ending was a spur-of-the-moment thing! I intended to point the camera at the SBC. But then I realized that a static shot would not prove anything about the HDMI input! :) So I pointed it at me, and then decided during the take to roll into the ending.
I liked the firmware the most, it's new of its kind I'd guess, and the conclusion part is the best, I hope to see you again the next Chrisday (or was it Sunday 🤔), Thanks Chris,
I pray no one is strong-ARMing you into these SBC (Small British Computer) board cameos.. for money or fame, Sir Alan Turning would be rolling over in his MOSFET shaped casket (no disrespect) if he even suspected it was not for TH-cam education and enrichment. FYI, Alan was more of a analog computer fan, but I digress. The board is just North of Muscle Bound! Good job and another great one in the can (sorry for that visual). Cheers.
The lack of play store in Android is easy enough to work around, but for computers like that having the option to easily install ubuntu client and server is brilliant because it means that you have access to the command-line utilities which are very powerful. It may seem barebones, but if you are buying the VIM 4 you're probably the kind of person who knows how to fill in the gaps.
Lol what is the work around pls. Im looking into these sbc's for the first time and i know nothing. I just know I need a specific app (fpv freerider) from playstore running smooth as possible for the lowest budget possible. Not picked a board yet because of this playstore issue and i cant decide which to buy for specs and compatibility.
The potential for this board is amazing, HDMI 'IN' is a game changer for commercial use, I'm not too bothered regards the play store but have ordered one to check out, would like to see support for the HDMI 'IN' in Linux and hope some cases specific to this board appear soon, as per usual anotherfantastic review.:-)
As always, another excellent video. If the software support for the HDMI input becomes available in Linux, this SBC could be a good basis for less expensive version of standalone HDMI recorders like those from Atomos or Blackmagic Design.
Robert ... Exactly. I'd like to build some type of HDMI recorder with one of these one day. Just something simple like the old VCR where I can record video content without thought.
@@PoeLemic Yes! I've got a device which I bought for recording TV and it makes a garbled mess after just a year of use. With something open I could actually record stuff that isn't made available on the network's website and watch it at my schedule.
@@anon_y_mousse Exactly. I wish someone would cobble together a simple SBC solution to this problem. See, I've got a lot of crap on my Xfinity DVR that I'd like to save into MP3. But, I'm not the best at knowing all of the steps to do it. I bought a screen capture card for PC, but it's not simple & easy. So, I'd like to find something that can just record 720p / 1080p @ 24 / 30 fps. That's all and convert into MP3 / MP4.
_Just yesterday_ I was thinking that ExplainingComputers should make a video on the newly released Khadas VIM 4. I guess you can telepathically read minds of your fans 🤷🏽♂️
Been waiting for you to review the Khadas VIM4, since I'm considering switching from Raspberry to Khadas. Gonna buy my new SBC in December, and unless Raspberry come up with something in a hurry, this is gonna be my next SBC (unless something better comes along, obviously :-)) Thanks for the review...
Another great video! I enjoyed seeing another cool piece of kit that I may very well purchase in the future. I quite enjoy seeing what this little computer brings to the table and I have to say there is plenty of potential here!
With all those camera inputs and screens, it might make for an interesting DIY car entertainment/backup camera/dash cam setup. But of course that is a bit involved.
Looks like a great board, especially in the way it installs its operating system. I do hope others follow this lead. I am impressed with its speed. But I will stick with my PI for now.
15:58 They've missed a trick here, they should allow you to access this menu when it's downloading and installing the OS! Hopefully they'll be able to add this in a future firmware update
this feature already exist, during download stage , but on installation/writing stage is locked for HDMI display , same time web gui menu don't have this limitation and can open it any time and works simultaneously
I can’t understand why it’s taken until now for someone to add a decent bootstrap environment in the firmware like this. It can’t be that much development effort, but the quality of life improvement it provides is huge.
I've got a box full of these things, and the Pi's are the only ones I don't regret buying. Half-baked software doesn't cut it, I don't care if it IS self-installing! No, I'm probably not going to rush out and buy one. But, great video, nonetheless! :)
That collision with the fan and lid has been a problem since vim3 I believe, it was suggested that I trim the overhanging plastic inside the gpio cutout.
The VIM 4 very much seems like a video pass through video recording device. 1 thing i can think of is a device to go between your computer and monitor for video capture. It has the price to match too if it has a low latency between HDMI in and when it gets to HDMI out.
Often thought that a useful piece of video gear would be effectively an Android smartphone with an HDMI input in place of its rear camera so that you could plug in an arbitrary video and audio source and do a livestreamed broadcast using some of the smartphone specific video streaming and media platforms. Something like an Atomos recorder with a version of Android running on it. This seems to be getting closer to that but the software isn't there.
Thanks. Very cool. These SBCs seem pretty powerful, especially considering their size. It's interesting that they decided to be lacking on the Android offerings. I would think that Linux has a lower following than something more familiar like Android but then again, if one is comfortable with Linux, this might be the "Bomb"
Great presentation Chris. Whilst it is generally true that software lags behind hardware, it's a shame they didn't include more software options that were tried and true that were in the previous iteration of the sbc. I do like to small amount of onboard memory and I hope developers head towards including it in their new sbcs
Thats best linux experience ive seen so far on SBCs. Looks like it has 2D/3D gpu drivers, but not video decoding module for libva. But still best. And mouse cursor is not blinking while moving.
Definitely promising. If it can eventually somehow handle low latency scaling to 4K there will be a lot of interested hobbyists in the gaming/retro gaming scene that might want to know about this.
Definitely interested. I noticed a CM4 form factor module that was leaked using the same SoC. Would be nice to have 64-bit compatible OS to run Dolphin!
I really liked the VIM3, especially it's formfactor with all the connectors along one side to reduce cable clutter. Very nicely designed, with lots of forethought, that is often neglected in other SBCs, like having a case. Unfortunately, I had to return it, because of an HDMI problem. Then, it was lost during the return shipping. 😢 IMHO, RPi's community support is difficult to beat. but barring the CM4, if advanced features like AI are required, it's a tossup between Khadas and Nvidia.
Hi Hermit, sorry to know that your VIM3 was lost during the return shipping. Are you able to contact hello@khadas.com and with tracking number information to get a free VIM4 instead?
The Khadas Vim 4 is an interesting SBC, I like the ability to download an OS without using another PC, definitely an OOWOW moment. I think that better software support & graphic acceleration would help it. Would it be possible to test it without the cooling fan, running it as a passive solution? I'm looking to see if it could be a desktop replacement contender! I look forward to Sunday as I always learn something new from Chris @ EC! :)
For 5 of the past 6 years I had been using an RPi3 and then an RPi4 as my only computer. With YT-DL I was able to watch most things that wouldn't even run in the browser or at the same resolution that I wanted. I was even able to get Doom3 and Half-Life running natively, though only within the last year or two of using them. Most old game systems emulated fairly well. It's only been since this past year when I got a decent desktop that I've only been using the RPi as a media viewer for the big screen, but it's still capable of being a desktop PC, just not a great one.
Nice to see one with HDMI IN and see it working 18:48. Be nice if you would show it recording some HDMI content from the input and then show the final MP3/MP4 created output.
If I understood well, perhaps the lack of device input from Ubuntu is due to lack of "driver". You could probably see dmesg or some other log file and see if complains about some missing file. I don't know if command lspci works and reports some capture device. If the hdmi input works with android, it should also work with linux.
@@ExplainingComputers That's very strange. Probably you should contact the manufacturer and report the problem. Drivers can be injected as files to a specific location but the devices themselves need to be listed under lspci or some other command, maybe lshw. dmesg usually reports the startup information, warnings, errors about missing files. Maybe you can install some app under android like AIDA64 and see what type of capture input it is.
19:21 - I long for the day when one of these boards finally has the software to bring out the best in the hardware (especially in Linux, where we could actually do things with it, instead of Android).
Greetings Jeff -- and I totally agree!
Being $200 rather than $20 makes it all the worse when one tosses the board into a pile of junk.
Agree
Sadly by the time you get a stable platform getting close to using the onboard feature set to its full, the next generation of the platform has come along with all new hardware to optimise drivers and distracts those who would be tweaking and edging out that 1% more, shift to the new stuff as for the same effort they can get that extra 10% more as early days to shine. Besides, people like new things. Rinse repeat.
A ZX81 would be running power stations today if we stuck with it. :)
@@PaulGrayUK why go so advanced as a zx81 you can run a power station on an AGC with with about a cubic foot or two of LOL Memory, or you take that zx81 and try training a confrontational bidirectional recurrent neural network on several petabytes of video, good luck living to see the output. Old != Better no matter how much you wish it was, there's only so much that something can do no matter how optimised.
"We turn the board over. The excitement continues."
Made my day!
When it comes to videos introducing SBCs etc Mr Barnatt sets the standard. Other channels are not bad, but i often find myself wishing for the clarity of the video work and commentary which is provided so effortlessly by Explaining Computers.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks. :)
Indeed. This is what keeps me coming back for more :)
Sadly, there are a lot of people who don't have patience for this style of video, but I love how it's quite methodical and always answers the little questions I have about a particular board. Often better than the manufacturer's own documentation.
I like how Mr Barnatt treats things with respect. Don’t you hate it when TH-camrs throwing things (probably from sponsors) on the table during unboxing videos to try to look cool?
@@JeffGeerling Fully agree!
Well, in the words of the firmware, "OoWow". This looks like a game-changer in the world of SBCs. Willing to bet this is the watershed moment where all SBCs will start including some sort of BIOS/Firmware from now on. Can't wait to get my hands on one of these.
I agree. I do hope that other SBC makers will copy the firmware idea.
Doesn’t the Raspberry Pi already do something similar?
This is kind of "Pixie boot from the Cloud" - making OS installs as effortless as installing an app from the Linux command line.
@@karimjordan9461 if you mean NOOBS, that's just a tiny operating system that does more or less what Oowow does. The point is that NOOBS has to be written to an SD card, just like any other Pi OS. It isn't firmware and, more importantly, it doesn't include Tetris!
@@johnm2012 No, there is beta firmware that downloads rpi-installer, (not NOOBS). This can write the OS to any attached storage. Unfortunately the RPi4 doesn't include eMMC so an SD card or use storage is needed.
I would love to attend one of this guys lectures.....on anything. Very informative and entertaining.
Thanks. :) I did some online lectures recently here: th-cam.com/video/shW8MIbNyuM/w-d-xo.html
Now I know what your intro song reminds me of! It’s a mix between inspector gadget & dr.who 🤣👊 I love it.
Reminds me of Chockablock. An early BBC computer :)
Go go gadget scissors 😅
😂
On a side note, it is of course obvious, however when someone with disastrous narrative style such as this typist can at least recognize superb narrative style, it speaks more to the speaker than the listener. Thanks for another informative video.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're not allowed to distribute the playstore portion. I know some Chinese phones come with their own app managers and don't have playstore even though they run android. On one of those that I have you could install playstore from an apk though and it seems to work fine. Thank you Chris for the fine segment as usual. Consistently both a top and accessible channel for this type of content.
The most entertaining review channel ever! I love it.
Thanks. :)
The Khadas VIM 4 seems to be a very impressive board. Thanks for reviewing it.
It's the first ARM SBC I've looked at that really feels like using a desktop computer.
I can't wait to get one of these.
Well done khadas letting users choose their exposure to malicious software as google playstore / play services. Highly interesting with a virus free android.
Awesome. I hope these SBCs keep coming. Great job, Chris 👍
Sunday is always the day to take....... a closer.. look 💪🙏
I love these SBC videos along with the RISC-V. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, will do!
Let joy be unconfined! It's been a while since I've got enthusiastic about buying a new SBC. Love the HDMI capture possibilties. Thank you.
I wish I knew what you know. That's all I can say. About a decade ago or more, I knew some things, but I got out of building computers and so much has changed, that I'm lost now. I used to build about 5 to 6 computers a year just for fun and sell them for what I had in them. I haven't done that in years, and now I have no clue about anything. I'm subscribed and I'll keep watching and maybe I'll be able to catch up.
When I first saw this board, I was surprised to see how smal it is! Once you get some software on this, it will probably be pretty amazing!
It's a shame: I was checking out different channels on SBCs the other day, just to find out, that the first channel that I have subscribed to, namely Explaining Computers, is simply the best one. Chris has just the best hands-on-mentality and I dig the pace of his reviews. It's relaxing as well as very infomative... Thank you very much for everything you do here!
And, yes, I totally agree: It is a shame that software lags so much behind hardware these days, very similar to the beginnings. The big problem seems to be, that nobody would invest in software on such a cheap hardware. Imagine somebody would buy a licence of an OS for 150€ :D Maybe there was a market for that. I would love to see an in depth video about this issue...
Thanks for this. And an interesting video idea -- noted! :)
It is so amazing how much technology can be put into such a small board. Looking forward to your next video!
Greetings Perry.
That is an interesting point you made, maybe you should do something like a six month, year, and two year retrospect of these single processors. Since these are less mainstream they may not get the attention they deserve. You could also include comparison to earlier iterations.
It seems to ship quite quickly to the US from China. I ordered mine last week, and it already made it to the O'Hare International Airport a few days ago.
Long time no see :) been out of the loop, just saw this what a great video! The future is looking bright for SBC's! Would loge to see a cluster of these!
Welcome back! :)
very interesting SBC, only issue I would have is the price point. But thanks for the introduction to the Khadas VIM 4. Until next time have a great day.
Thank you Chris, that was most interesting. That is quite a capable computer.
Concerning all the product features without support that you mention, have you considered doing a few follow-up reviews of such products? As a person of constrained finances, I am cautious about buying products that have relatively poor support for hardware elements that form the basis of the company's marketing. I first ran into this with my Odroid C2. That SBC is now running a later and Odroid oriented version of LibreELEC (CoreELEC) very well. But when I received it, that machine/environment was not a particularly stable solution, and Debian was not functional at all. There are other manufacturers that do not seem to keep up the process of supporting their hardware, and you are one of the few people who are in a position to tell us buyers about the progress, or otherwise.
Thanks for this -- and a great video idea. Noted! :)
I don't even know how you remained that calm when explaining it's specifications at the start.. it's beautiful 😁 pricey but nice.. (hahaha, strange, un-cleanable finger print.. it's like it's been touched by Zeus himself).. I'm thinking it looks good for a car media center.. because of the accelerometer and CSI camera inputs.. display output.. OS looks really responsive. Oowow is the future for sure, wonder if the source can be a local NAS.. Anyway, excellent vid as always, cheers ☕
Thanks for yuor support -- and I agree, I can see this as a great car SBC.
> Oowow is the future for sure, wonder if the source can be a local NAS..
yes store/restore os features same works for LAN
I just ordered one last week. Can't wait to play around with it!
Most major league pimps have been planning to upgrade to these after what went down in the hood last summer. OG's my not have much use for the HDMI input, but the younger G's will I'm sure. Thanks for the great review. 5000.
Now this new SBC has me very interested. Would live to see more on what it can do. I’m hoping you will have a follow up video in the work Chris.
What a nice way to your Sunday morning, a new SBC review from EC. Thanks as always.
Thanks for this. I will indeed return to this board when (if!) there is software support for the HDMI input in Linux, and/or better software support in Android. Lots of possibilities for video capture, streaming, etc.
I love that the Android image isn’t bloatware. Much better base for building a system
Thanks for another great review of the latest VIM 4 SBC. After the hardware has been developed I am sure there is a scramble to provide software support for such things as HDMI input on Ubuntu and the Play store on Android... As SBCs become more powerful they will have wider applications for edge computing, which will be great to see.
Shows promising innovation other sbc makers could follow.
14:31 - Because of the chip shortage, and subsequent mark up off all such products, the RP4 is only slightly better at the price-to-performance ratio. A RP4 8GB board is going for $180 now on Amazon.
The 8GB Raspberry Pi 4 still costs $75 from every official retailer.
@@ExplainingComputers Apart from they are not in stock anywhere at that price to buy currently - so sad :(
@@ExplainingComputers Yeah. I should have put the qualifier in that _available_ RP4s are going for almost $200 right now. The official resellers listed in their website are both OOS, and RP4s are currently going for around $180 on both eBay and Amazon.
@@welshtechie6832 This is not entirely true. All official Pi retailers continue to get intermittend stock, which they sell at the official prices. Those wishing to buy need to click the "register interest" or "notify me" or similar buttons on official retailer websites, when stock comes it, they will be first in line. People do continue to purchase Pis at the normal prices in this manner, as many have reported in comments on this channel.
@@ExplainingComputers Nice. So you're basically put on a waiting list? So I guess the markup is a "fee" if you want to get it right away. I imagine there are people taking advantage of the shortage and buying up a lot of these and then turn around and resell at 2x the cost.
Automatic network installation of operating system does reduces the barrier for entry a lot, But one should have extraordinary trust on the brand to install OS without any possible means of verification; In the age of NixOS it's a steep drawback for power users.
Great video as always Chris!
you totally right , oowow also have this possibility to install os like fedora ubuntu armbian debian etc from official sources , but at this moment linux kernel form official distros not ready, hope will be soon too
Very impressive SBC, and the OOWOW firmware is genius. May not be ready for primetime with no HDMI input in Ubuntu and no apps in Android, although hopefully Khadas is working on those :)
I really enjoy your videos.
Thank you!
Thanks for your support, most appreciated. :)
I really enjoyed the candid outro from the SBC, a change is as good as the rest I guess they say!
I really enjoyed the fact, that you really give all the information here. I hope they get the GPU drivers as well as the HDMI IN fixed for Ubuntu and an Android image with the Playstore (or at least the option thereof without all the hassles) would be a nice bonus.
Certainly looks awesome especially if one wants to just do some work.
I could imagine my daughter having this for her school - attached to a monitor and with a keyboard and mouse. I think it should be possible to run Teams on Linux since it's Electron-based, though I wouldn't count on it without checking. But the rest seems fast and snappy. I like it!
Thanks - for me, one of the most interesting of your recent videos. The way to produce drivers for new SBCs (and anything else) is probably to get an AI to do it - after all, one HDMI input port surely can't be that much different from another in terms of what functions it can perform. Hardware designers appear to be able to put quite large-scale chunks of functionality together quite quickly and easily. Software designers arguably have a much up harder job because they have to produce stuff that we humans can work with. But a *driver* ? Surely more like a bit of hardware really, perhaps the industry is going the wrong way about it.
Thanks for your support, most appreciated. And great post! :) I love the idea of AIs creating drivers.
@@ExplainingComputers should be easier than teaching an AI to drive a car
@@ExplainingComputers IA is never good.
Have an awesome weekend Christopher, another excellent showcase of, less is more, form factor in computers. As Always, Be Smart and Stay Safe.
Fantastic video. I decided I'd buy one of these. I wish more SBCs had POE+.
Good luck with it. This is a very nice SBC.
Seems to me like there’s a gap in the market for the RPi foundation to fill. A 100-$150 SBC that has all of these h/w features PLUS their established s/w, knowledge and community support.
It could be as different to the current Rpi-4 as the Pico is.
Yes, certainly! Nice thought.
I agree. The current Pi4 is just a bit too slow for desktop use. It's fine for programming but not fine for youtube and the like. I'd pay $150 for a PI4 sized PI supported board with twice the horse power.
I'm hoping when the pi5 rolls around we'll have a zero3W, normal pi 5, and a pi5+. They could segment by RAM and maybe onboard EMMC or exposed PCIE, as well as by computing power.
Getting hold of fast ARM CPUs isn't always easy. Qualcomm reserve the best CPUs for premium phones. So you either have to spend a fortune baking your own chips or settle for something lower specced. It's annoying to have so much power in phones barely being used by most users.
well, seeing it in those terms, you are correct, but rpi was never aiming to create such market, so their products do not fit there well, perhaps is time for them to release a similarly speced sbc at 100 dollars and leave the 50 dollars for the basic pi4 style board
the market seems to love the offerings, but the 200 dollars price here is pushing a bit too far i believe, but a 100 dollars market i think that does exist
18:44 in the video is something you can't see every day, love the setup Cris.
Another great video. Thank you Chris. Love the ending.
Thanks 👍
The firmware is a great idea. Hopefully, more distros will be available to choose from, in the future.
As cool as this board is with what appears to be a great SoC and that amazing oowow firmware I won't be buying any SBC again until they have fully working Linux distros available at launch. I have a drawer full of SBCs that were awesome when they came out and yet their usefulness is nearly nonexistent because of terrible Linux support. With the Vim4 at $200+ I might as well turn my attention to used SFF PC's where I know that I'll have no OS limitations.
This.
Learn how to recompile a kernel.
SBCs are prototyping boards, after all.
I think that people kinda miss the point of SBCs. If you want a server go buy old desktops, mini PCs or an actual server. They're cheaper faster and some of them use less power. The thing with SBCs are that they're embedded Linux. To do the coolest stuff you absolutely 100% have to get comfortable with kernel stuff. SBCs are also good for talking to low level devices over SPI and I2C. However, back in the day I had to cross compile a custom Kernel and write a device tree overlay just to get an I2c device to show up as a standard keyboard under Linux. It's not hard especially these days with all of the documentation but it isn't for the faint of heart.
The point I'm getting at is this. I'm frustrated that so many people go out and buy SBCs to run as a media server, pi hole or wasteful K8s cluster. There soooo many more options out there that do that job way better. People buy these things by the crate load and they all end up in a drawer somewhere because people just don't understand what these things are designed for. Now the prices are sky high and they're out of stock everywhere. It'd be really cool to release an open source midi controller based on the pi4 or cm4 but with prices this high what's the point!?
Anyway, if you've come this far here's the embedded Linux secret: do it from scratch. Build your own kernel and software turn it into an image and you're good to go!!! There's tools that help you do that. I used Yocto back in the day but I'm sure there's better stuff out there.
Also, not having play store is a huge plus. Hopefully there's none of the other Google crap to. I like this thing a lot. I just which it was cheaper.
Anyway for what it's worth base images are just a starting point. You should really rebuild them to do what you want.
@@cprogrck thanks for this. Didn't even know I could do that without having to spend years learning.
Your enthusiasm is great Christopher, a great intro to the Vim 4.
As a side note, I think the image of you sat at your desk is a good look, more of it please! :-)
Thanks for this. The ending was a spur-of-the-moment thing! I intended to point the camera at the SBC. But then I realized that a static shot would not prove anything about the HDMI input! :) So I pointed it at me, and then decided during the take to roll into the ending.
I liked the firmware the most, it's new of its kind I'd guess,
and the conclusion part is the best,
I hope to see you again the next Chrisday (or was it Sunday 🤔),
Thanks Chris,
I pray no one is strong-ARMing you into these SBC (Small British Computer) board cameos.. for money or fame, Sir Alan Turning would be rolling over in his MOSFET shaped casket (no disrespect) if he even suspected it was not for TH-cam education and enrichment. FYI, Alan was more of a analog computer fan, but I digress. The board is just North of Muscle Bound! Good job and another great one in the can (sorry for that visual). Cheers.
I love watching your videos and passing them on and sharing them to other people or interested in this.
This is totally awesome Chris
Keith
Thanks Keith. :)
The lack of play store in Android is easy enough to work around, but for computers like that having the option to easily install ubuntu client and server is brilliant because it means that you have access to the command-line utilities which are very powerful. It may seem barebones, but if you are buying the VIM 4 you're probably the kind of person who knows how to fill in the gaps.
Lol what is the work around pls. Im looking into these sbc's for the first time and i know nothing. I just know I need a specific app (fpv freerider) from playstore running smooth as possible for the lowest budget possible. Not picked a board yet because of this playstore issue and i cant decide which to buy for specs and compatibility.
'ooWow'
Also wow lol I was just watching your old USB3 video and I kinda laughed at the way you said '.com' at the start. You've improved so much!
I like that it seems to have all of the interfaces on one side. Great for doing a case mod, say with a Mac mini case.
The potential for this board is amazing, HDMI 'IN' is a game changer for commercial use, I'm not too bothered regards the play store but have ordered one to check out, would like to see support for the HDMI 'IN' in Linux and hope some cases specific to this board appear soon, as per usual anotherfantastic review.:-)
As always, another excellent video. If the software support for the HDMI input becomes available in Linux, this SBC could be a good basis for less expensive version of standalone HDMI recorders like those from Atomos or Blackmagic Design.
Agreed. :)
Robert ... Exactly. I'd like to build some type of HDMI recorder with one of these one day. Just something simple like the old VCR where I can record video content without thought.
@@PoeLemic Yes! I've got a device which I bought for recording TV and it makes a garbled mess after just a year of use. With something open I could actually record stuff that isn't made available on the network's website and watch it at my schedule.
@@anon_y_mousse Exactly. I wish someone would cobble together a simple SBC solution to this problem. See, I've got a lot of crap on my Xfinity DVR that I'd like to save into MP3. But, I'm not the best at knowing all of the steps to do it. I bought a screen capture card for PC, but it's not simple & easy. So, I'd like to find something that can just record 720p / 1080p @ 24 / 30 fps. That's all and convert into MP3 / MP4.
_Just yesterday_ I was thinking that ExplainingComputers should make a video on the newly released Khadas VIM 4. I guess you can telepathically read minds of your fans 🤷🏽♂️
:)
Been waiting for you to review the Khadas VIM4, since I'm considering switching from Raspberry to Khadas.
Gonna buy my new SBC in December, and unless Raspberry come up with something in a hurry, this is gonna be my next SBC
(unless something better comes along, obviously :-))
Thanks for the review...
Thanks for this. Do keep on eye out for the Rock 5 model B, due out soon now (hopefully), which will be a major competitor to this board.
@@ExplainingComputers Thanks - already looking forward to your review 🤓
Another great video! I enjoyed seeing another cool piece of kit that I may very well purchase in the future. I quite enjoy seeing what this little computer brings to the table and I have to say there is plenty of potential here!
With all those camera inputs and screens, it might make for an interesting DIY car entertainment/backup camera/dash cam setup. But of course that is a bit involved.
Looks like a great board, especially in the way it installs its operating system. I do hope others follow this lead. I am impressed with its speed. But I will stick with my PI for now.
15:58 They've missed a trick here, they should allow you to access this menu when it's downloading and installing the OS! Hopefully they'll be able to add this in a future firmware update
this feature already exist, during download stage , but on installation/writing stage is locked for HDMI display
, same time web gui menu don't have this limitation and can open it any time and works simultaneously
Yet another excellent vid. Cudos. Look forward to the next installment.
A new SBC is out well I guess it's time to get our dose of *ExplainingComputers* ❤️❤️❤️
I can’t understand why it’s taken until now for someone to add a decent bootstrap environment in the firmware like this. It can’t be that much development effort, but the quality of life improvement it provides is huge.
Agreed.
The problem is that the download sites also have to be configured in such a way that they can be added to the list.
As a bonus you can play Tetris while you wait for a download. So it's double awesome.
Oh Wow!
I love that boot utility; Greetings Mr Barnnatt, Thank you for the great content
Greetings! The utility is indeed excellent, and something it would be great to see on other SBCs.
@@ExplainingComputers For sure, let alone desktops and workstations, right from the Firmware! is very easy to see the benefits for big deployments.
I've got a box full of these things, and the Pi's are the only ones I don't regret buying. Half-baked software doesn't cut it, I don't care if it IS self-installing! No, I'm probably not going to rush out and buy one. But, great video, nonetheless! :)
That get fun section is a nice touch!
That collision with the fan and lid has been a problem since vim3 I believe, it was suggested that I trim the overhanging plastic inside the gpio cutout.
The VIM 4 very much seems like a video pass through video recording device. 1 thing i can think of is a device to go between your computer and monitor for video capture. It has the price to match too if it has a low latency between HDMI in and when it gets to HDMI out.
Often thought that a useful piece of video gear would be effectively an Android smartphone with an HDMI input in place of its rear camera so that you could plug in an arbitrary video and audio source and do a livestreamed broadcast using some of the smartphone specific video streaming and media platforms. Something like an Atomos recorder with a version of Android running on it. This seems to be getting closer to that but the software isn't there.
Yeah that’s the future.
Keep up the good work fella and stay safe.
This man is an international treasure. Thank you for your channel
My pleasure!
Fantastic which way this is moving, thank you Christopher.
Greetings!
This fan on VIM 4 is quite beautiful and shiny.
Interesting SBC video with fascinating SBC firmware option.
Thanks!
Thanks for your support. :)
How do they misspell _"wellcome"?_ - 16:36 (obviously should be _welcome_ )
Do code editor IDEs need better spell checkers???
Thanks for the review . Hope to see updates on it , like how to use the HDMI input . Hope you get a Hackboard 2 to review when it gets released soon .
Jolly excellent as ever. Thank you. Helps to understand the direction of the non-rPi SBC ecosystem. Only EC does it so well.
Wow you have the coolest stuff.
M.2 slot. 8 gigs
Of memory.
It just keeps getting better and you are really on top of your game.
Keith Kuhn
Nice touch with the end mod.. and hopefully they catch up the images
I absolutely love the purple case.
Nice it's Sunday again again just in time for my breakfast but I know I will like the video because I love boards related videos have a nice week.
Greetings! Have a great breakfast, and a great week.
Thanks. Very cool. These SBCs seem pretty powerful, especially considering their size. It's interesting that they decided to be lacking on the Android offerings. I would think that Linux has a lower following than something more familiar like Android but then again, if one is comfortable with Linux, this might be the "Bomb"
Oh, can we put Winblows 11 on it? /s
Great presentation Chris. Whilst it is generally true that software lags behind hardware, it's a shame they didn't include more software options that were tried and true that were in the previous iteration of the sbc. I do like to small amount of onboard memory and I hope developers head towards including it in their new sbcs
Ah yes, here we see the Christopher Barnatt in his native habitat. Really enjoyed this video!
Something like this could do well as a capture device if the software gets there.
The OS installer needs to happen for PC BIOS, too.
Another great sunday, and a new fresh video :)
I think this little SBC is more powerful than the ancient laptop I'm watching this video on.
Thats best linux experience ive seen so far on SBCs. Looks like it has 2D/3D gpu drivers, but not video decoding module for libva. But still best. And mouse cursor is not blinking while moving.
These SBCs are getting amazing
Definitely promising. If it can eventually somehow handle low latency scaling to 4K there will be a lot of interested hobbyists in the gaming/retro gaming scene that might want to know about this.
Definitely interested. I noticed a CM4 form factor module that was leaked using the same SoC. Would be nice to have 64-bit compatible OS to run Dolphin!
I really liked the VIM3, especially it's formfactor with all the connectors along one side to reduce cable clutter. Very nicely designed, with lots of forethought, that is often neglected in other SBCs, like having a case. Unfortunately, I had to return it, because of an HDMI problem. Then, it was lost during the return shipping. 😢
IMHO, RPi's community support is difficult to beat. but barring the CM4, if advanced features like AI are required, it's a tossup between Khadas and Nvidia.
Hi Hermit, sorry to know that your VIM3 was lost during the return shipping. Are you able to contact hello@khadas.com and with tracking number information to get a free VIM4 instead?
The Khadas Vim 4 is an interesting SBC, I like the ability to download an OS without using another PC, definitely an OOWOW moment. I think that better software support & graphic acceleration would help it. Would it be possible to test it without the cooling fan, running it as a passive solution? I'm looking to see if it could be a desktop replacement contender! I look forward to Sunday as I always learn something new from Chris @ EC! :)
For 5 of the past 6 years I had been using an RPi3 and then an RPi4 as my only computer. With YT-DL I was able to watch most things that wouldn't even run in the browser or at the same resolution that I wanted. I was even able to get Doom3 and Half-Life running natively, though only within the last year or two of using them. Most old game systems emulated fairly well. It's only been since this past year when I got a decent desktop that I've only been using the RPi as a media viewer for the big screen, but it's still capable of being a desktop PC, just not a great one.
Fantastic video!! Please do a follow up on this in 6 months to see if software support has improved!
Thanks. I will follow the software situation with great interest.
6:08
Why are the components slightly left from the middle amongus shaped
Great demo. Thank you for contributing. I really appreciate your work.
A great overview of an interesting piece of hardware. Hopefully they will provide a better Android image in the not too distant future.
Nice to see one with HDMI IN and see it working 18:48. Be nice if you would show it recording some HDMI content from the input and then show the final MP3/MP4 created output.
If I understood well, perhaps the lack of device input from Ubuntu is due to lack of "driver". You could probably see dmesg or some other log file and see if complains about some missing file. I don't know if command lspci works and reports some capture device. If the hdmi input works with android, it should also work with linux.
I'm sure you are right, the problem is that Linux is lacking a driver. I could not find any list command that reported the capture device.
@@ExplainingComputers That's very strange. Probably you should contact the manufacturer and report the problem. Drivers can be injected as files to a specific location but the devices themselves need to be listed under lspci or some other command, maybe lshw. dmesg usually reports the startup information, warnings, errors about missing files. Maybe you can install some app under android like AIDA64 and see what type of capture input it is.
Great SBC, but even more wholesome video. Thanks.
Really interesting, they are getting close to a VAX 11/780 in the palm of your hand. My Zoran laptop is doing well, thanks.
Greetings! I've glad the laptop worked out. :)