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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2024
- This is part 2 of my first look recap and impressions of the new WINWING Super Libra stick after unboxing it on my twitch live stream the day prior. This is not a review.
PRODUCT: winwing.cn/en/...
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CPU: Intel i9-9900K @ 5.0 Ghz
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GPU: ASUS STRIX 1080Ti
HDD: CORSAIR FORCE Series MP300 960GB M.2
PSU: CORSAIR HX850i
CASE: Fractal Design Define R6
HMD: Oculus CV1
HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog (12cm extension, VIRPIL WarBRD base)
RUDDER PEDALS: Thrustmaster TPR Pedals
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![WinWing Hotas First Impressions: Super Libra, Super Taurus and F/a-18c [Discontinued]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Sodp4K3BOQs/mqdefault.jpg)
![WinWing Hotas First Impressions: Super Libra, Super Taurus and F/a-18c [Discontinued]](/img/tr.png)
![[UNCUT] เพื่อไทยดันอุ๊งอิ๊งนั่งนายกฯ หลังเศรษฐาถูกถอดถอน | คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ | 15 ส.ค. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SpprmDJ6QEE/mqdefault.jpg)
Jabbers, I really love your style.
Other reviewer: "I've just been given a $1000 HOTAS. Let's tell the people how amazing it is!"
Jabbers: I've just been given a $1000 HOTAS. Let's tell the people every single flaw and let them make up their own mind, whether WinWing would like what I say or not."
I appreciate the honesty, even if it's way out of my price range, I've just got really lucky and the wife let me buy a Warthog HOTAS today.
wife let you? where do you live in a jail?
@@oguz6305 No, just in a world where a £350 purchase has to be agreed with partners. It's not pocket change to everyone.
@@Tigermoto : Whipped.
@@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM True enough. Happy wife, happy life.
@@Tigermoto : So what's your safe word, for when she's whipping you :-P
@Jabbers, thanks for a really interesting video! Looking forward to your review.
One comment about the spring forces talked about around 9-10minutes in.
In a real aircraft you’d be fighting the aerodynamic control forces from your ailerons and elevator, in much the same way. These forces will also add up “in the corners” so to speak.
Unless, of course, they are powered controls :)
Would be cool having force feedback on these modern flightsim controllers, as this could mimic real control forces in a much better way.
Thanks for doing all the tweaking and dialing in on this hardware for us. Will be the go-to channel to tweak this setup once mine has arrived.
Good review. Amazing to me that most manufacturers aren't providing 8020 mounts out of the box. Such an obvious miss for the high-end peripherals crowd.
Jabbers, that notch on the hat switches is there because they are "gated" as opposed to "ungated". The hats on the VKB Gunfighter are the same way. I prefer ungated, but I think the idea is that gating it prevents accidental button presses.
Yes I noticed the VKB was the same, thanks for the knowledge drop on the naming, I was unaware
@@Jabbers The 5way hats on the Virpil throttle and newer grips are also gated like this. Didn't know the VKB ones are too, that is good to know...
@@Jabbers You may also notice that when you press and hold down on a gated hat switch that, while you can still move it in every direction, it will not activate any of those buttons. Again, the idea being that it is harder to make accidental inputs. At least, that's how VKB's gated hats are.
@@CaseyBartley Thats how it is on the VKB's MCG. On the Kosmosima, all of the hats on the face are ungated. Only the had on the thumb rest is gated.
"'Waggle' is a real word, you can look it up." Hell yea, I got a product review AND an English vocabulary lesson! :D
Thanks for the video, I think it was one of the best hardware reviews I've seen.
I spent 200 (a few years ago) on my VKB and never been happier, that's the most I'd ever want to spend on a non-FFB stick regardless how many extensions, brackets, cams and bearings and "cnc machined 4570 billet keeping murican jobs" it's got crammed into it.
I diverted the "excess cash" (lol) on Andre's Jetseat ffb seat pad system instead, that way I get the best of both worlds, I get the feedback without impeding accuracy.
Nothing comes for free, I'll agree with that, but if anyone still has 600 bucks to burn after that, spend it on a welder, grinder, a set of files, a drill, some other tools so they can make their own extensions and brackets etc, who knows might even result in a more creative hobby where they're not situated in a chair ^^
It looks really cool but " it feels decent" just won't cut it if they want me to blow 1k on a hotas
1k without any force feedback, "just mechanical" parts. The reason for this flight sims are even more a nish than sim racing?
@@dubtube6691 Sim racing is more expensive. You'll spend around $971.32CAD getting a stick, base and throttle. Another $531.17 if you want another stick and base. by comparison, Full racing set at the high end will cost $3840.44CAD
@@Andulvar I know :/ to have both is even more expensive lol
Huge thanks for disassembling and explaining the difference in mechanisms
I really appreciate all the time, effort and detail you put into these first looks/reviews. It's gonna save people a lot of heartache and cash.
Thanks for the fantastic review, Jabbers. I know the price is probably going to be a precluding factor for most people, but if any of us ever win the lottery it's good to know we can make an informed decision, haha! Your integrity doesn't go unnoticed. For over $1000 USD I'd say it ought to be flawless. I thought the TM Warthog was expensive, but apparently I was wrong. Maybe this kit will boost Warthog sales as a result lol.
Excellent. Your in-depth on just the cams is good, very useful, info.
Great work on the 1st look - super informative, really appreciated the in depth explanation of the spring cam system (and drawbacks) on the different models of those bases. And especially appreciated the little tidbit on the incoming landing gear panel... that’s good to know - I recently built a somewhat ghetto custom arduino button box but wouldn’t mind something a bit more professional looking. Good stuff
HOLD ON THAT'S NOT HOW ADDING VECTORS WORKS! You'll have the *hypotenuse* of the two vector magnitudes, *not* added. 14.14 lbs
You arent wrong, in the moment i guess i just tried to dumb it down. Probably should have made mention of that... lessons learned
@@Jabbers I know I'm a spazz, it was a great video throughout.
I wonder what the profile cutout would look like if you wanted to make the stick apply constant pressure at max deflection along all 360° with a cam system! Some sort of blob-looking square, I suppose.
According to their website, they are going to release a Take-Off panel and Combat Ready panel. The Take-Off panel is probably what they were referring to when you asked about the landing gear and flaps.
Ya must be
Great review! Thanks. It helped me to make a choice.
I hope he'll sell the throttle separately. Thx for the detailed review.
yeah when they do it will be $500 lol
@@bailey2624 Yeah, it would be fair price.
That hat switch movement limitation is the same as the stuck in my Airbus H175.
The issue you mention, with the Castle Hat and the Weapon Select switch, .. is exactly the same on the Thrustmaster F-18 stick. i.e. can't go from one position to the other, without releasing the initial position first. This makes sense, as they are gated 4 position switches.
I don’t have that problem at all on mine, I even showed that I don’t on the live stream
@@Jabbers I didn't watch the live stream, only this video, where you only mention the F-18 with regards the trigger. The Warthog doesn't have the gated hats/switches etc., .. the F-18 does. I checked with a buddy of mine, who also has the TM F-18 stick, .. and he also can't move either of the 2 4-way hats/switches you mentioned @1:20 to 1:50, in 2 directions at the same time e.g. Left and Up, .. due to them being gated. It's a similar situation with the Virpil T-50CM vs T-50CM2 sticks. With the T-50CM you could press a Hat Up, and from that position, you could move it immediately Left or Right, and engage the appropriate switch. WIth the T-50CM2, and the use of gated hats/switches, you couldn't do that. You had to release the pressure in one direction, to move it in another direction. e.g. from Up .. to Left or Right. Took a wee while to adjust to that .. :) I'll try and take a look at the Stream at some time, to try and get some clarity on what you are talking about, but, from watching this video, it seemed like the issue was related to gated vs non-gated switches.
Thanks Jabbers for this great honest review, A side of FSSB and ignoring budget, which one is better in your view (Base only) VKB GF Mk.II (III) vs WW Super Libra?
These type of (bicycle) seat post clamps can be tightened by first screwing down the screw / wheel opposite the lever and subsequently putting the lever down.
Which is exactly what i did, I'm an avid MTN biker, have had my fair share of dealings with these devices.
Jabber buying a new hotas next week. Here is what I am thinking of getting. The winwing f18 which I really think might be my first choice. The virpil mongoose 50 or the thrustmaster. The vkb gunfighter mk3 is to much. Out of those 3 what do you suggest? I fly mostly the f14,f18 and f16 but also fly the av8b. The winwing with twist is $375 the virpil 435 . Haven't priced the trustmaster but can find those every where. I heard the base in the warthog where's out over time. I am also considering these 3 throttles. Warthog,winwing f18 or the virpil. Love the winwing alot and virpil.
not to be pedantic, but if we are talking "same distance (radius) at all positions" then the multiplier of spring force is not 2x but around a peak of 1.4x at the 45-degree divisions between the two axes: 10lbf*cos(45) + 10lbf*sin(45) = 14lbf not 20lbf. if we are talking full deflection to the corners (which is a "bonus" area that the circular warthog base does not have) then yes, it's 20lbf at the corners.
Ya someone else said the same thing and as explained to them, dumbed down the explanation for other viewers, I didn't REALLY wanna turn this into a math tutorial ;)
@@Jabbers yeah, going into a "which brings us to this week's lesson on trigonometry and hook's law of springs" would probably disrupt the natural flow of the video and probably is unnecessary. as an owner of a dual gimbal style joystick, i felt like i had to protect the justification of my large monetary investment in it by ameliorating the difference in spring force between the warthog and gimbal systems. ;)
LOL
The two cams should have forks or teeth that mesh together at the center so both cams are engaged at center position
Cool video. Thanks for sharing how the cams differ. I think pythagorean theorem would suggest a 45° pitch in two axis with 10lbs of force each would require this much force: √(10^2+10^2) ≈14.14lbs
Simplified as to not have to teach a math equation but yes :)
1400usd. It costs as much as my used Mercedes-Benz C320 in my country lol. The price to quality seems not right here. Thanks for review! You saved me a half year of savings xD
So coming back to this review, what would be your choice for the idea grip and base combination? I see all of them on your desk, and as I'm the owner of the warthog HOTAS only, which I do love, I was wondering in the ideal world what you would choose having experienced the whole range.
RealSimulator FSSB and Grip
They need a hook handle in addition to the flap and gear handle.
I love my VKB. like my Virpil. I dislike my Hog stick and loathe the Cougar stick. Too much money spent in the past. Ill pass on this one. VKB all the way for me now. :) Ill wait for their throttle. The Hog throttle is ok in the meantime :)
VKB is a god damn meme at this point. idk how they still around but i do have a black mamba and love it with a cougar grip and the cougar throttle. picked up a black hog button box to add some extra twitches and buttons but would love something like the inwing just not paying $500+ But im waiting on vkb im just tired of the 3 year delay lol
Rick Bailey use the European site you can order in advance like I did. 2 month wait for it to get made in China. But worth it. The USA site is mental and sells out in hours of being in stock. I really want that VKB throttle 😀
@@bailey2624 just buy virpil, problem solved!
If I could afford that, which I can't and won't be able to for a long time, I probably wouldn't get it precisely because of how the internals work in that base. If it were the only high end option in existence then maybe I'd deal with having to tweak those cams just right and still deal with a center bump I guess... but for a high price, with smoother base options available, it just isn't going to happen. As an aside, I think Thrustmaster needs to expand its $100 lineup. The T16000 and the TWCS Throttle are really good for their price point. They should release a throttle with a better, more mountable base, and a T16000 that matches the shape of the F-14 and/or F-18 sticks, and have a flatter and more mountable base. Further, I wish Thrustmaster would develop some standardized mounting systems for desk fronts and computer chairs for their lineup so we all don't have to figure out individual duct tape and bolt methods of getting our gear in the right position :D
I just saw on their website that they only have options of full hotas meaning throttle + joystick. If I only wanted to buy the throttle, I have not option and have to pay for a full price. They should give customers the option. Just like warthog or virpil or any other, you can buy all together as you can buy separate. Just a thought. Thanks for the video Jabs!
OH MY GOD JABS THAT TEN SECOND INTRO IS SO LONG I'M GONNA COMPLAIN ABOUT IT IN THE COMMENTS
lol.
Honestly it feels like the biggest issue with this is the mounts. I am excited to see the second iteration of what they come up with.
From a Price to Value stand point, if you go with the Fox Mounts and the Warthog with the F/A-18 Stick and extension, which is the better value for features?
from the quality of the stick in terms of exteriors I thought it was about the same price of the warthog. I was sorely, and I mean sorely mistaken....
Sir your reviews are the best
I just finished building my own pc to play DCS
So between thrustmaster and winwing F-18 stick grip which one do you recommend ?
The only thing I like about the stick is the last thing you showed for the twist axis. I have problems using rudder peddles as on of my legs doesn't want to work right from a back injury. To bad it costs so damn much. Wish other high end sticks would do that. That's the only reason I don't have the TM stick :(
What are those dampers made of? It looks like there's some plastic in between metal parts. Maybe if you put some teflon grease it will be smoother?
Ya I’ll need to take it apart and see
Great review but out of all the joysticks you have there which one do you rate the best?
Great review! What is your daily driver these days? Which HOTAS is your favorite? I'm considering the Winwing gear but I'm worried I won't like the feel of the cams/base coming from a TMW base (where resistance only depends on radius and not on radius *and* azimuth).
I use the a TM Warthog throttle and a RealSimulator FSSB base and F-16 grip
thanks for your video -should i get this or the warthog or a different stick?
I'm trying to build a setup for the hornet, I currently have the warthog, but I want something a little more true to the plane. I know I want a hornet stick, and from what I understand the hornet uses the springs on each axis system for the joystick. I'm thinking of getting a new throttle for the hornet as a side thought. Does anyone have any suggestions?
So... what this essentially comes down to is, that the TM Warthog is still better for less than half the price.
the other two mentioned as well
Not sure the other are less $. The gunfighter + mcg pro was $500 shipped for me.
While there’s something cool about having an exact replica of the hardware that appears in the plane you’re sim-flying, I fly exclusively in VR, and one of the reasons is that my virtual cockpit can be almost any aircraft I want. For this reason, I’m wondering if a high-end, generic and highly-programmable stick might better suit my needs, like the Gunfighter MkIII? Yeah, in the F-14, I wouldn’t have a “too close for missiles; switching to guns” switch, but there would still be a weapons selector switch, and it would always be in the same location, agnostic of aircraft.
So between the super libra base and virpil MongoosT-50CM2 Base, What Would you recommend in 2022? Or if anyone can give me a tip on What to buy? Gonna have it centerd mount with extension.
Virpil
Basically you are confirming some of the flaws of the cam design that several of us were pointing out in Discord to the company, but they basically said "it's amazing!". Without selling the throttle and stick separately there is no reason to grab this set as I do not see any reason to switch from my MT50 or WarBRD base to this just to get the throttle, which does look amazing. Sell these separatley WinWing!
@@arthurwilliams3479 Yes, no one was discounting a cam design, but the specific cam design WW employed. This was a post from 2 years ago, lots of info out there on the gimbal since this as well. As for realistic gimbals it just doesn't fit into the discussion really.
@@arthurwilliams3479 having used all of them the VKB Gunfighter is the best IMO.
@@arthurwilliams3479 IMO it's the best gimbal on the market currently.
@@arthurwilliams3479 I wasn't a fan of the WarBRD at all, the Super Libra is pretty good but I don't like the F18 grip at all, and the clutch mechanisms on the VKB are the best (VPC doesn't have them). I won't use a base without clutches. So the Super Libra would be the Gunfighter's only competition IMO.
i like you referenced it to the other top guns out there
Thanks for the review. Yea I've always had my doubts about the stability of those hanging rods.
I have a question: In the first half of your video in the background you have hornet and viper sticks displayed on some mount. Where did you get them from?
Friend printed them, they are on shapeways but for away to much money
Hey, there, was a review ever posted on this stick? Thanks, and keep up the great, and very useful, work.
twitter.com/jabbers_dcs/status/1202707346025115648?s=19
Thanks.
Hey great - very insightful... Pepople seem to think the Warthog Hotas is no longer viable, what say you ?
I really like the WINWING stuff but Im confused about the EXTENSION - I would love to add to ORION but Winwing says its not recommended.... they used language that seems to indicate its possible - Do you know if they will offer extension for the other Sticks ?
Thanks again.
No idea they ghosted me after I put out a statement on why I wouldn't review their devices anymore, I stopped following anything about them as I personally prefer most manufactures to their stuff
@@Jabbers well now I'm curious what that statement might be... Do you still recommend the warthog
So i'm not very big brain but wouldn't the cam & spring that add up around the corners be more realistic because instead of just fighting the airflow over the elevator but also the aileron at the same time?
In a older plane sure, in a f18 that has a flight computer and hydrolics no
Jabbers yeah that makes sense now that i think about it. But it would be more realistic for games like msfs which is a plus a guess.
Thanks Jabbers!
@@oppotato5440 no the pressure doesn't add up like that
So no not realistic at all
Could you please make some comments or update about the Z axis? I don’t own rudder pedals, only an X52 hotas. I can control a UH1 with it, but with some difficulties. I am considering updating to this winning set which I will use for both, F18 and UH1, but I can’t afford a separate set of pedals (TN TPR like). Thank you!
I disliked the zaxis, it causes the stick to unscrew from the base for me
Is the lack of a curve on the extension a problem?
For what? Highly dependent on your setup tbh.
WarBRD it is for me then!
That notch might be on purpose. Any actual pilots here? What does it look like in the real stick? Also what is it like in the TM grip if someone has it (I assume this one would be closer since it's officially licensed by Boeing)?
The TM Grip you can transition from left to forward without the gate, it is ungated.
So what's the MSRP for both the stick and throttle + mounting solutions ?
Ark about 1k
hello.Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog ,vırpıl.winwing i want to get one of these.as someone who has tried them all which one do you think should I take.nice to have joystick harder.I would appreciate if you say my views.
That's going to depend on your budget
@@Jabbers which is the real question.as someone who uses all three
What are those stands that keeps the Thrustmaster grips upright on the table?
Stands a friend printed, you can find them on shapeways for stupid prices
I was looking for this joystick and everyone has first impressions no one finally uploaded the review, what happened? Thank you, as always good content.
Because they never sent any of the reviewers anything other than a engineering sample. Hard to review something that was not what customers would receive. The only review I've seen is from growling Sidewinder but he unfortunately did a review on the engineering sample
@@Jabbers
I thought they had delivered the final product. good point, thanks for your reply.
They delivered them to pre-ordered customers
Hi. I was buying fa 18 stick. But Thrustmaster told me that they don't sell base and I must use the warthog one. But I don't want to buy the full set if I'll never use A10 Stick. So, is there a product that may be used as a base, not coming from Thrustmaster, to use with fa 18 stick?
Virpil bases work with the TM f-18 stick
@@Jabbers tks jab. How can I purchase It? Is there a way to buy base on line? Just the base I mean then go to thrustmaster and buy fa 18 stick!
Look up Virpil joysticks on google
Are they going to make the video available for everyone on how to adjust it?
Not sure but it basically shows what I showed in this video
@@Jabbers I just finished watching the whole thing. For the center stop - which screw(s) are you adjusting on the sides? I could be wrong, but it appears there's 2 per spring and then 2 additional in the center beneath.
They are on the side of the cam between the spring.
Never be able to afford that.... :(
its "decent" i dont think anybody in the right mind will blow 1k for something "decent"
Typical small business trying to re-coop all the tooling and start up money with first release. They will fail at that cost.
14.1lb