I cant believe I forgot to being this up in the video, but: Warfarin's S1 is busted with Crushers since it heals based on Max HP, which Crushers have a lot of. Warfarin and Shining are your 2 BEST Crusher supporters. ALSO Abjurer's also really help Crushers. Sanctuary helps boost Crusher's EHP. And since it is damage reduction, this also helps increase their effective healing.
@@VonTachyon It uses the highest value sanctuary. So Quercus won't be able to boost it since even with module and pots she has the same value. The other abjurers will be able to boost it once their conditions are met though.
And then you add Fragility. +20% damage taken. Which means big numbers go up. Suzuran also slows, so lots of time before contact to get a few hits off for free.
I'd love a series explaining what every class branch specializes on, something similar to this but with Dreadnoughts or arts guards for example would be entertaining.
@@BloopsArknights and it’s a lot of effort too Needless to say that TONS of people would find it helpful, but that’s too much work for just one person - putting aside the fact that you’ll have to constantly argue with people who disagree with you and are too stubborn to try and understand different perspectives Id also be super down to seeing you make more stuff like this, but I hope this wouldn’t lead to a burn out for content creation like other people went through (most notably Yii and his reviews of different classes)
U can try searching Yii's channel (although he quitted making arknights content and some class analysis are years old), it's still very informative about them in general and what to use them to. But the most recent archetypes for each class u will not have an analysis about--
@@BloopsArknights I understand it's a lot of effort but i am so, so, so tired of metaheads throwing away 95% of operators I'd be so grateful to see more analysis from a perspective that is willing to actually engage with the game fully. If you ever make another archetype breakdown, i will be watching
@@BloopsArknights except Brawlers/Fighters who aren't named Mountain/Chongyue They deserve to be tossed aside (please help me make good use of my wife Flint I don't know what to do with Brawlers/Fighters)
10:00 Thanks to your choice of example operators, I am now imagining Quartz, Matoimaru and Franka all standing next to each other. Legs for days, I am in Heaven. Edit: and Specter. My word, legs enjoyers eat well with this game.
W take, especially on the weakness of Crushers. I myself use them, and yes, they dont really struggle, only against high physical dps enemies with low atk
Same... As someone who has maxed trust my 2 Crusher guards... It not really that hard to work around their weakness... I mean I would still put a Medic to support my Operators... So the need for healing is not an issue...
Quick summary: + stable dps againts high def enemies + high survivability with certain criteria - weak againts high dps enemies ± her capabilities againts long range capable enemies sometimes irrelevant (in terms of comparison) because most of long range enemies rend to use arts damage Did i sum it up right? Side note : low rarities tend to be where HG cook their classes wich set the baseline standard amd what could their 6* counterparts would be, HG makes this mistake twice by releasing the 6* blast caster and flinger first makes designing the lower rarity counterparts much harder, because they wanna fix past mistakes but also dont wanna powercreep the current available 6*
Yeah basically. Crushers aren't really weak to high DPS enemies though, just low attack rate high DPS enemies. As you can have a nuker enemy with a low attack speed that a Crusher can excel against, while a brawler-type enemy is their worst nightmare. And yeah, better at dealing with ranged arts damage than ranged physical damage.
You, like everyone else, missed he part where a Crusher's giant HP pool allows them to tank True Damage. You mentioned arts damage, but made no mention of a certain Londinium Artillery Cannon or equivelant threats.
Ayy we love to see support for Crushers! Tbh I’m like a hipster when it comes to them. The more people that think they’re bad, the better. I don’t need validation to know they’re great. Can’t wait for my mans Hoederer, I got the Darknights family ready to help him
@@doomclasher9287 The idea probably was to make a splash damage ground unit, but that is exactly what would go in the list of guard archetype. I haven't read up much on the details, but splash damage on a ground unit with just a single tile range is almost non-sensical because centurion guards exist, especially if the splash area isn't significantly large enough to make the two different. Also Savage is in a funny position because lmao, the miner rabbit with explosive hammer isn't a splash damage ground unit.
Honestly yeah, I like and agree with your great takes. The game is more fun if you do things your way, and being challenged is part of that fun (most of the time). I already had Wind Chimes on my to-build priority list on the lower end, and upon watching your video about defending Crushers, I immediately moved her on the higher end and it was worth it.
Genuinally true. I forgot to talk about them in the script but they are a good combo piece, as sanctuary does help with effective HP and effective healing.
Especially Silence Alter (if you were around for that event anyway) since she has passive Shelter affected by hp rather than hard hp cut-offs so crushers always have Shelter regardless of hp, and can boost it with S2
which makes theor max DpS another 50% higher, and practical DpS often (when blocking for self) about 100% higher since comfortable block count = max block - 1 (otherwise it's too easy to accidentally leak)
Finally someone who gets Crushers. Especially the low DPS argument is mind boggling. Anyone who has taken a -ATK tag in CC should know how easy it is to get defense thresholded, and Crushers rarely ever get Defense Thresholded right off the bat, so they need a downside. But even with that downside of 0 defense with a good team they have great value.
You must be confused her with Jieyun which is a sniper and both of them have similar color scheme and released closely (Jieyun released during Chong Yue and Lin Yuxia while Windchime released during Qiubai)
Your analogy about Arknights being a card game and finding fun lil combos from esoteric cards is genius. The way I play the game nowadays (and always, really) is to just use fun operators, and that roster might change depending on my mood. Sometimes I do like using super overpowered ass operators armed with pocket-sized nuclear bombs to clear the the stage super braindead and fast, and sometimes I like using Shamare to debuff the enemies enough so that Archetto can get rid of the medium-sized targets and use a well-timed Fia S2 to annihilate the bigger elites at the same time. Finding niche use cases for niche operators is a pretty big part of the fun of the game, and relating that to finding fun card combos is something I never thought of before. Good video I give this one a big thumbs up / 10
I love your videos, you speak understandable english and come up with REAL numbers to back your positions. Explain things out very well, love it. I don't usually sub, but you earned it.
I mean, I could see the argument in a game about resource management. If you have limited resources to pull ops and limited resources to develop ops, it makes no sense to prioritize an extremely niche operator outside of like personal bias. It applies to entire class branches like splash/mystic casters, abjurers, and flingers. Same with how no ones championing Eunectes, Stainless, or Hellagur.
@@rainzerdesu that certainly applies to new players, but after a bit every account reaches that tipping point where they can clear just about any piece of content bar maybe extreme outliers like DOS or Max Risk CC. I think that's about the point where players should start investing into weird ideas or niches and see what's possible. For instance someone cleared DOS S-3 with Stainless' turrets as the main DPS in combination with Angelina (and other supporters) for a Supporters Only clear.
@@torinriley7569Even if you were in such a position, it still makes no sense if we look at the banner release schedule. Outside of spending extra or being extremely lucky, rolling on Hoederer results in having to sacrifice one or more of the operators on schedule that are just objectively better.
@@rainzerdesu Or you can simply wait til the next "front that was" banner drops whenever we're getting close to Episode 14 releasing on global and have a banner that has Stainless, Ines, and Hoederer. That and a build account only really needs to worry about limited ops. Sure, Ray and Degenbrecher are really powerful damage ops, but I also already have Surtur, Texas Alter, and Pozyomka. I can affort to wait for these ops to rerun on a different banner. This year is a bit more whack than usual what with the Rainbow 6 double rerun, but normally speaking budgets aren't particularly tight unless you really want to get the op on release.
@@torinriley7569 The problem is that TFtW banners are accepted to be not worth pulling unless you don't own a majority of the ones on them so 2+. With the Hoederer, Ines was a must pull and had multiple TFtWs with her and Stainless had multiple better TFtWs with Horn and Sailleach so for people who would pull on these banners, the likelihood of not owning Ines and Stainless is low. For future banners, we have an immediate Virtuosa which is a new class so that already makes her better if the argument is for "niche" purposes as well as having Viviana on her banner for "niche" purposes as an Arts Fighter. Degen is meta defining based on what we know from CN voting her the most influential release of 2023. Even if you skipped Ray because Typhon, there's still Shu and Ela, both good ops and both limited. Shu's banner also has Zuo Le for "niche" arguments being a good musha. Then after there's Ascalon which also is a better op than Hoederer and fits the "niche" focus since she's an Ambusher. And then right after her is the 5th anniversary event so that's not skippable. So the idea of pulling for Hoederer either for usability or niche are both objectively bad.
One thing you didn’t mention was Abjurers. They are really effective at supporting Crushers because of their Sanctuary, which boosts their EHP even further. Abjurer is another branch that people consider bad, even though it’s not. Abjurer and Crushers are in the same boat of there being better options.
During and after the Blacksteel event I started to use Silence Alter and Quercus a lot more. I'm starting to see more opportunities to bring them now. Notably Silence on s2 helped me beat DoS A-3 by letting me stall the boss with my underbuilt defenders.
@@kurobako6001 I know that. However Abjurers (minus Quercus) either have higher Sanctuary effects, or has ways of increasing their own to a higher effect, which can still be very beneficial to each of them.
@@echigokurogane8612 that's just straight up wasting the crusher's innate Sanctuary tho. You're better off just using abjurers with other classes since Sanctuary is calculated after def and res and using crushers with a good healer
Main issue with crushers isn't the class but the skills HG gives to operators and lack of module, you might think they don't need any but they HAVE to, any type of damage reduction is key for them, they need more than what is given on their talents, that's why for example with the module they could get reduces damage by enemies blocked and from ranged attacks when the unit is not blocking, some kind of survivability for them to keep alive without depending as much from medics, even dodge can work, some kind of physical and arts dodge while their skills are not active can be useful too (in case of Qiubai when it IS active) As mentioned with the skills: Wind chimes S2 only gets shelter during the skill duration, stops attacking for 5 seconds only do barely do 7k damage as max with only 1 second of stun, Hoederer S2 needs a whole 3 seconds of attacking for only 1 second of stun which isn't worth, not to talk about Qiubai who receives INCREASED DAMAGE, being someone who is already weak and needs any kind of deffensive ability, HG didn't cook with operators' skills, they had potential but only took that potential with Hoederer S1 and S3, other skills were bad + attack up gamma.
I think that part of the problem with crushers are players expectations, they wanted somethin extremely good at their job or something that is set and forget they can handle on their own due to them doing almost everything, and if you take into consideration all the cracked OP 6* like surtr or texalter then crushers looks weakers specially if you only see quartz (the worst crusher imo due to crontradictory kit)
Thank you for creating a serious in-depth analysis video, we definitely need these kinds of discussions, because it proves that there are more to Arknights than just gameplay (this side of the community is already overbloated that cc are quitting). Anyway, thanks for giving me a reason to raise Quartz, I always wanted to raise at least one operator per sub-class, and she fits the bill. I'm not rolling for Hoederer while Wind Chimes is boring.
I do agree with the "work with what you have" mentality but here that only really applies if you were pulling for someone else and then the game hands you a crusher so you find a way to make it work to spite on the gacha gods that cursed your pulls. Still the question remains, why would anyone bother to pull for a crusher *willingly*?
Because the character is cool/hot? Because big ATK and HP number go brrrr? Not everyone cares about only using the absolute most effective units, that's such a boring way to play the game. It's so much more fun to try to figure out how to make your favourites work (and then bring in the meta big guns if the stage is too hard lol).
came around to crushers after your first rant and starting to see how i could apply them. Now they fit in pretty well for me and they are fun to use and now waiting for Hoederer just for s1 to be even more of a lazy doktah.
The other slight counter to the dps argument is that with higher base attack they're more likely to waste damage on overkill unless they can oneshot something, it's the same issue most of the besieger class has. To be honest the main issue I see with crushers is that their niche of dealing with enemies with both high resistance and high defense is shared with true damage ops and you have to e2 Amiya to progress the story. There's not much reason to build one unless you really like them or are so late into your account that you're moving into niche clears.
Very insightful! I was looking forward to pulling for Hoederer with the introduction of Chapter 13 and I absolutely cannot wait to try him out! I’m glad I came across this video to gain a better understanding of crushers! Amazing video, cheers!
I love this video!!! Been desperately searching for a high-quality arknights channel ever since we lost our beloved Yii to burnout and it looks like I found one. Gonna go binge everything else here, can't wait to see what comes next! Your understanding of what operators are for is really helpful and really educational
I get this, I like crushers but more so I like Incantation Medics and when I expressed how I was excited for the new op today it was pointed out that she was Incantation. I'm aware that's why I'm excited. Her kit gives me plans to pair her with Quart or Matu in IS because that sounds fun
8:16 It's not a Shining thing actually, all regular flat def/res effects are applied before the %-based modifiers. You can see the same thing by messing around with Bison's talent or various sources of flat buffs/debuffs (for example a 0 res operator getting affected by Burn with NG S3 active will go from 38 to 0 even though Burn is supposed to be -20, Bison with S2 up loses 220 def from Corrosion instead of 100). Only Inspire is applied differently for some reason. Good video btw
A pretty good video, it was a bit tough for me to keep up because of... Smooth Brainess, but now, i can at least say that i value Crusher more now and am interested to maybe build one in the future. And it also makes me a bit more regretful to skip Hoederer...
I've literally made a video before on how high-HP operators (Specifically Matoimaru) are better at taking super heavy hits than Defenders. Crushers are a very fun archetype and I wish I had more excuses to raise and use them.
15:00 out of every gacha game in existence, Arknights has by far the most robust community framework to support MTG-style official formats, now its just up to Hypergryph to officially sanction all these community formats people already play, and finally give people an official reason to play all these lower rarity and overshadowed operators in their own formats. we already have a community leaderboard for formats!!!!! (Arkrec)
I wish you gave more coverage to Wind Chimes on this video. I like her S2, and I see the advantage on having an HP tank, but her s2 seems to have abysmal masteries, so I never build her. I like s2 because the skill is quite unique. Thanks for the video.
You've inspired me to raise and use Quartz, as well as subscribe. I really like your style of content and approach, fully backing up claims with clear and qualitative evidence. I look forward to further content and if you cover other underused archetypes!
I got to wonder if we're going to have another brawler situation. When everybody thought they were the worst till mountain almost playing like a different archetype- kept him relevant. But I understand if I'm totally getting hordoror completely wrong
People dislike Brawlers for some reason, and its because Mountain's main usage breaks out of that identity, making him akin to a centurion. Hoederer on the other hand does a good job at retaining the Crusher identity, as i explain in the video, so I wouldnt see this happening.
No the problem is that brawlers actually are just bad and swordmasters have a similiar issue. Crusher's have a downside, but their upside actually works within the context of the games mechanics baring rare edge cases because when it comes to physical damage a single bigger hit is pretty much ALWAYS better then several small hits. As shown in the video crushers retain high effective DPS even through high defense numbers, but swordmasters and brawlers have literally the exact opposite problem. They have very high theoretical DPS... that is effectively never applicable because they loose basically all of it against even middling defense stats, even what would largely be classed as 'trash' mobs often have enough to basically halve their damage and against a wide swath of elites they basically do chip. For brawlers and really any class with a 'lower attack but high attack speed' gimmick to work the game would need to be careful to provide enemies where that's actually advantageous. So basically enemies with some kind of percentage based damage reduction ability or large HP pools with extremely low defense, but this functionally NEVER happens. Virtually all enemies have defense and it's generally been inflating over the games life and also inflates with rank with the result that brawlers are just bad against the majority of enemy units. Then add in the cruddy one block to really seal the deal on them just having no real use. Crushers at least bring damage and bulk against non-phyical damage to the table (along with a usable block count) both are genuinely useful and while not ultra meta they're generally workable due to those raw stats within how the game actually functions. Brawlers bring nothing to the table. Their gimmick is due to core game design actually actively detrimental. There defensive stats are deeply unimpressive (there seems to have been some thoughts of dodge being part of their kits, but they refused to ever make the percentages high enough to matter on any of them.), they do basically no damage to almost anything that matters, AND they're one block on top of it which makes them even worse lane holders then the first two already would have. They are fundemtnally broken and bad because in a game where defense is an integer rather then percentage based reduction fast weak attacks are ALWAYS going to be a loosing proposition. Mountain had basically just not even be a brawler to actually be good.
The thing with Brawlers is that they were designed to be an early match dps, and in that regard, they were crazy good at it. Until year 3 we didn't exactly have many sub 10 cost units with actual dps and survivability in the same package. The *problem* with brawlers, is that myrtle and other banner vanguards exist and completely ruined the whole concept of DP generation in arknights. There's no longer a scenario where you ever want an early laneholder that can't just be solved by generating more DP so that you can slap down mudrock before the first wave wolves even get to your blue box. So now the actual reward of brawlers barely exists, because people aren't thinking about what to use their first 15 dp for anymore, they're thinking about how quickly they can get combo out the rest of their team instead. For their costs, brawlers such as indra are actually insanely good at what they do, and that's always been their gimmick. Incredibly DP efficient lane holders. Also arknights doesn't really support 1v1 units anymore so. If your unit doesn't have at least 2 block they're kinda worthless in modern arknights whoops.
Sadly I do like crushers when Quartz came about I was thinking this archetype attacks all in range causing splash damage w its slow ASPD but only attacks blocked enemies. As I saw Wind Chimes S2 I though will cleave even aerial enemies but alas no 😢😢😢 Thx for their analysis it helps renew my love for crushers 👍
I thought for some reason that said 587k subs. I was shocked. Everything in this video is the reason I liked the idea of crushers when they were released, and I thought they were going to be really fun. I never bought quartz though. At least it is higher than 587 subs now btw! I also live by the reasoning at the end of the video and Kyo does too. Just use the ops you love and make them work. That is the beauty of the game. It is also the reason why I never bought surtr or thorns and instead level swire the elegant wit to m6 mod3 instead of typhon who just sits at e1 lvl 1. Just use ops that make the game enjoyable instead of meta, but then DOS gives you a headache.
Excellent analysis of crusher, really serves the other side of the argument well. Now do frostleaf, because I don't personally agree with the "there are no bad operators" way of thinking, bad does not mean unusable, it means their kit conflicts with each other and as a result, creates a highly confusing operator that you can see that who creates them didn't really put that much thoughts in it. But still, great vid.
The definition of 'good' and 'bad' obviously differs from person to person (i wanna do a video in the future on that). But the whole "there are no bad operators" mindset isnt really meant to be an objective statement that literally means "all operators are good and if you think they are bad, youre bad". In reality, the phrase "there are no bad operators" means more "an operator's comparitive quality or lackluster design wont stop me from trying to learn how to use them." Hense why in the video I say "There are no bad operators, just people who gave up on trying." I made a video about why I think frostleaf is a bad operator (except with a nuanced and unique take because dead horse). I understand that some operators are better than others, some operators being downright difficult to optimize. I just personally subscribe to a mindset that prioritizes giving operators a second thought rather than casting them aside permanently with the "bad" label written on them, as it is far from constructive.
@@BloopsArknights I do think that just saying them "bad" could lead to misunderstanding and less constructive arguments, but I can also say that people who judges operators with just "bad" has no intentions of giving constructive criticism in the first place. For me, saying an op is bad is putting HG, or the devs, into responsibility, they have to take account for their mistakes and lack of foresight, by saying there is no bad operator, you're taking away accountability that HG should be accounted for, I also spent a lot of time using "bad" operator, and I still reached the conclusion that it is"bad", and when should a person be considered gave up on trying? If I used "that operator" for months, only to feel disappointed and move on be considered "gave up"? Must I try endlessly to justify that they're not "bad"? This is why in deeper discussions, I tend to use "questionable" as a description to these "bad operators".
Ive never used a crusher before so im super happy to have stumbled across this video on the day i pull for hoederer. Honestly sounds like a fun class even if they arent like meta or w/e was going on with people calling them bad. I dont think ak is as fun if you go mega hard into only building meta or i guess meta efficient units. I've only been playing the game so long bc i get excited building units for a possibility of a really fun team combo (IS made me raise a LOT of baseline 3s &4s and ive been filling in units that add to that ever since lol) Great video btw, glad to hear there are folks uplifting the classes and units they enjoy. I had to unfollow another ak youtuber a few hours ago bc their take on talking about crushers seemed antithetical to what i wanted out of a cc forthis game, it made me feel *sad* over wanting to use this unit and thats just not a good vibe at all.
What upsets me the most is that it was very easy to make them more useful by simply giving them passive %HP regeneration like the Specter, but apparently only Hoederer will have something like that, and it will be a subclass with 1 usable unit
awesome video, as a massive lupo lover i’ve always really liked quartz so it’s nice to see someone go in depth about her use cases like this. also i can NOT believe you showed so much IS footage and didn’t mention that the “recover %HP/s” and max HP boost relics turn her literally immortal
Actually for the centurion vs Crusher vs Dreadnought comparison, you might as well multiply the damage by three and two respectively, cause Centurions and Crusher aoe is based off their block count. Basically Quartz, a 4 star, is twice as effective as a 5 star franka due to block, while centurion is still better than Crusher for being a 3 block if we simply take in the numbers Let's simplify it this way. Centurions have good sustain because they are meant for laneholding, hence Specter with the passive healing, Blaze with the def bonus and the extra range, and Gavial with the damage res. Dreadnoughts are for boss killing, hence the higher hp and higher def. Crushers is between the two, so more on stalling the elites who have high damage, and two of them at best.
I thank IS maps that made me mix and experiments different OPS I get giddy and excited to recruit a free unit that I don't have to check out what they can do
I've been curious what they will do for the module. I would like to see them add a new buff status to the game that the module would grant Crushers. Overkill: When a killing blow is landed, all excess damage is converted into healing and restores the HP of the unit that dealt said damage by 200% of that amount. This would help resolve their biggest weakness revolving around low-DEF, low-ATK, fast-ASPD enemies. In just this video, two examples show: 1) 1:22 with the dog; That is a lot of potential self-healing. 2) 7:52 at the bottom.
You made me want to try crushers and try making it work for me, maybe one day I'll bring one of the crushers into my daily squad, thanks for the great content bro.
I actually learned a lot through this video! Though I'm still not going to build any crushers, seeing the actual numbers really helped me to understand what it is that crushers are supposed to do. It was like taking a fun math class :) As a nicheknights lover (specifically ambushers/stalkers for me), I say everyone should keep on keeping on :D
though i never use Crusher and nor do i hold a good impression of them, this video has indeed changed my view greatly about Crusher, they are still very badly designed but i certainly do not trash them the moment i saw them anymore, this was very informative and easily understandable, keep it up 👍
Honestly, fair. Loads of people just dont like the gamefeel of Crushers and I 100% get that. They are awkward, 100%. You can either get used to it or not use em, both options work.
This is my 1st video I've ever seen from you and Im loving it. Im about to binge-watch everything from your channel. I will disable my adblocker and have your playlist on repeat through the night. These were the best 16 minutes of the month as far as im concerned, Thank you, I had a great time.
I knew I'd love crushers the first time I saw Quartz chunk right past a heavy defender like their DEF didn't even exist. Quartz was a big part of my chapter 11 clears, having an ocean of HP is a big help against people who shred your def (lol) or do true damage DoTs
It's funny to me that some peoples think being able to cite ONE operator out of soon to be 400 is somawhat of an own... because they rather take a saying too literaly rather than trying to understand the meaning behind it... In french we call peoples like you "enculeur de mouches" (wich mean flies fucker), so please, take this expression as literaly as the "no bad operator one" and go do so...
I really like the last quarter of your video talking about your card game analogy. I wish I had the time (and in-game resources lmao) to fck around and clear stages the way I want to. Unfortunately, I'm busy with school and many events are time-limited so I would much rather speedrun everything with OP ops so I can save some time for the cinematics. It doesn't help that Hypergryph releases events or stages with extremely tanky or difficult enemies just so they can deal with powercreep, which hurts the ability for more niche and average ops to perform well. But still, I appreciate this playstyle to Arknights that quite a good deal of people take part in
I was going to pull Hoederer during this banner (one of your other videos convinced me that crushers were good when used correctly), but decided to wait once I saw CN get "The Front That Was 4" banner, which is a much less risky banner overall (am currently suffering from the ptsd of doing 139 draws to get Jessica alter)
"there are not bad operator, just players who have given up on trying" this sums up why i don't really want to talk to my friends about arknights anymore. they're always just like i'm just going to look up a guide and use the same ops i always use. it's really frustrating when you see potential in an operator and want to talk about some intricacies and get blown off. i of course always believed in hoederer as a guyknights niche player but i was shocked to actually find out en fandom think he's trash anyway cause of the archetype. like huh? is anything that isnt surtr or gg just trash? (the answer, for those people, is ye sunfortunately) anyway, loved how informative this video was. i saw you said you weren't planning on doing more since you only are this knowledgeable about crushers, but this is good content people crave so if you see it in your heart then maybe you can become knowledgeable :p
I like your closing message on this vid, watching nicheknights clears of harder content really makes the magic of Arknights come together Personally, I really miss the "work with what you have" aspect of early-mid game. Racking my brains over who's the best to use among my more limited/weaker roster. I could do self limiting stuff but it honestly just isn't the same. Mid-game Arknights is the most fun I've had with the game (Along with IS) Enlightening take on using crushers for higher threats tho, just got Hoederer to complete the W squad and gonna give him a spin
I don't mind them lacking defense, I just wish they had something more to distinguish themselves from Centurions other than somewhat higher attack but slower attack speed, and otherwise worse in less block, no defense but significantly more hp, etc. When they function so similar to each other, and the differences are stats alone, if some polarizing differences here there, they feel way too similar. Even Duelist/Dreadnaught guards and Duelist defenders aren't as similar seeming to each other as Centurions and Crushers are! Oh, also, I wish Wind Chimes' 2nd skill was, like, 50-60% of its total SP cost, rather than the way too high amount it is now, and Quartz's stun was way higher proc if not even guaranteed. :D
1:15 map: at least on lower difficulties if you place a ranged op on the vertical fan the jetpack guys don't lift off because they happen to slow themselves well enough by attacking. Then you can exclusively focus on top lane.
The first time Quartz came out and introduced the Crusher archetype, my immediate thought was "boy, we really don't need them dreadnoughts anymore save for Radiant Knight". Never used any dreadnoughts again so far unless I'm running low on Hope in IS mode.
Good video. Agree with most of it (especially with crushers getting a good stat package). The main quibble I got is that I disagree with your assessment of crusher skills, especially wind chime's S2. Cement has a very similar skill (s1) that they both do AoE damage but cements just charges so much faster (6 seconds vs 25). Even if cement's skill has slightly less dmg, a little less range, and no stun you just get so much more out of cement. The long cycle time on Wind Chimes s2 really hurts that skill. And that's really the core reason that crushers get overlooked imo: quartz and wind chimes just have such mediocre skills that their stats can't really save them.
Nice analysis! I think Crushers are really underrated, they’re actually much better than people said them to be. It’s good to see there are players ready to try different varieties, and being able to try different things is what I love about Arknights
I built Wind Chimes since she's part of my beloved Cowknights. She is very much a welcome addition there, and even outside that dumb niche of 4 defenders and 4 guards, she's just fun to use. No regrets, just smash.
Been so eagerly waiting to hear you talk about them in depth once again man And you cooked so hard! And let me tell you, i use centurions in situations i am not supposed to be using them all the time simply because i adore all of them as a class So whenever i am using quartz s1 or wind chimes s2 and see them dealing a huge hit on a basic attack without having their skill on, i genuinely get jumpscared since im not used to seeing that from my off-skill Estelle/Blaze, they are super reliant on their skills and kits to work But crushers, at least from my experience, they do really well even without their skills on! So whenever you activate their skills, you REALLY feel the difference it makes It will forever hurt me to see people compare centurions with crushers. Like yeah of course i have a bias for centurions thats just who i am as a person, but i love crushers as who they are too and i acknowledge they should be treated differently from centurions! I’m really glad you put the effort into this video, it turned out super wonderful, and i hope you feel proud of yourself 🐊 ❤️
I watched this video 2 times This is simply the reason I play Arknights, I grab my beloved team and try to clear everything with them It's actually soulcrushing when I cannot find the way and need to add one of the "why are you not using them already" characters >
I've never played Arknights in my life and just random;y got your video in recommended but I am familiar with the TD genre and watched all of it. Absolutely love your style of narrative and numbers for characters! 👍 Thank you, I will sub, although I don't know if I will watch more content (because I don't play the game)
@@BloopsArknights I wanted to try it a year ago, but was too overwhelmed and wasn't sure I would ever catch up to others. I wish old games gave more stuff to be players who want to begin playing many years after the game's release
@miorioff Honestly, you dont need to worry about "catching up". Arknights is a single player game. I started playing only like 8 months ago and here I am. It shouldnt ve overwheling, just dont worry about the "correct" way of doing things. Just chill and enjoy the ride.
Actual use case for crushers IS: atk +% when skill activation. I had some fun with windchine in is3 -> where enemy res is 75. She absolutely nailed the hell out of those pesky little jellyfish against izumik
I feel like there's a _huge_ contingent of players who think slow attack speed *always* = bad dps. I even used to be one of them, because I only built characters with reasonably fast attack speed, I thought for the longest time physical damage was totally useless against high defense and would always use arts damage to deal with it. When I finally built silverash (to cope with failing to get Młynar lol) and tried him out, I was confused why he was doing such good damage against high def enemies because I had just totally misunderstood how defense works. Nowadays I'm a coldshot truther. I still don't really understand how defense works, but I have at least learned that big numbers, surprisingly, means big damage. 15:40 this so much oh my god. Im so tired of this Gamepress mindset that op combos are a waste of squad space and not just... how you will always have play the game regardless? We have 12 squad slots for a reason. A character isn't automatically worthless if they don't play the game for you all on their own.
@@BloopsArknights ah, thanks. I've definitely read explanations of it before but it's a major in-one-ear-out-the-other subject for me. I think might be able to retain it better seeing it spelled out so plainly like that, but it's still one of those things where my brain expects it to act more like how res works because that's just how I've always intuitively understood how defense works in games like skyrim (no clue if thats even actually how it works in skyrim lmao)
good explanation! I'm down to how Crusher work and how to use them in my strat. I do convince myself to build Crusher, it's just "how to use". hell like I can use Centurion as a replacement. But I do wondering, " Crusher can't be that bad. there has to be a way to use them properly." as this video bring light with pack of info, now I know how to use them. thanks.
As someone that try to do lupoknight and try to use Texalter less as possible, learning to use Quartz better make me happy. I always consider skill 2 to the better one as I assume the stun help her survive longer. I was blind sided by how most of skill 1 are bad (despite prefering aosta skill 1 over skill 2). She does gain a more sizeable dps gain which may allow her to kill enemies faster than skill 2 which can actually make her survive longer. Of course there will be scenario where I would prefer the stun but I always appreciate more options.
So it's a hybrid of dreadnought and Centurion? Focusing dealing with one heavy elite/boss enemy in a lane that has that extra enemy that comes in every few seconds?
A big chunk of the community also thinks that if an operator can't handle everything by themselves they are replaceble/not worth the investment. For example let's take someone like qiubai, many ignored her because she's considered weak (and while i love her i admit that HG "balancing" gave her the short stick and gave her half s3 unless you m3 her, causing people to ignore her because most showcase were at skill level 7) but as soon that you pair her with a slower/binder she's quite good. Now let's use crushers, if you leave them to fend for themselves they easly die but when you pair them with someone like warfarin or abjurers (mainly quercus and silence alter) they can candle big treaths for quite a while, as an example i used hoederer to stare at the chapter 13 boss for so much time that the boss died of boredom because he couldn't beat hoederer hp, this allowed me to clear the map of all the enemies and then delete the boss and all it took was warfarin and an occasional silence alter drone. I could have used some busted team and clear the stage faster, but i don't see the fun in that, in the end arknights is a team builder game, with synergies and niches and if you just turn off the brain every time it gets stale. I still think HG should think more before making new archetypes but at least crushers are not that bad as people think. This is the end of my rant(?) and thank you for reading.
tbh i wish hypergryph leaned in with the dreadnought 2 concept and made them single block duelists since dreadnoughts already have an identity crisis between the helidrops (skadi, nearlter, morgan) and the fast rotation elite killers (franka, matoimaru, melantha). i think those concepts were developed into duelist defenders and musha guards, but if they're intent on throwing out more guard subclasses then they might as well just stick to ideas that already work. i do kind of think the ASPD thing makes sense as a complaint because crushers are among the slowest melee attackers, comparable with fortress defenders who get massive range and AOE attacks as a reward for NOT blocking, and ranged units get away with the high DPH slow attack archetype since block was never part of their utility. although i do think it's interesting that crushers have better ATK and ASPD than mystic casters (who are kind of a punching bag still but not as much as crushers) on top of physical damage scaling better than arts against enemy stats... sidenote, +ATK% from operators stacks additively with itself, so wind chimes S2 is 100%+50%+20% * 230% = 6052 damage with the stats you show (still crazy!). however stage buffs like story mode, CC support tags, and i believe IS relics do stack multiplicatively. this isn't really relevant to operator powerlevel, although windchimes having a high DMG% multiplier on top of high base ATK means she scales well with other ATK% buffs as well as the ones innate to her kit. mlynar on the other hand has low base ATK, high +ATK% modifier, and mid DMG% multiplier, so he's F tier for warfarin synergy. sorry for the wall of text, this was a cool video and gave me a lot to think about :) part of it is my own salt whenever HG releases another goddamn guard subclass that just does the same thing as a year 1 guard subclass but you've sold me on crushers having a unique niche. perhaps too unique for their own good, but like you said it's always fun to make the "suboptimal" actually work.
I cant believe I forgot to being this up in the video, but:
Warfarin's S1 is busted with Crushers since it heals based on Max HP, which Crushers have a lot of. Warfarin and Shining are your 2 BEST Crusher supporters.
ALSO Abjurer's also really help Crushers. Sanctuary helps boost Crusher's EHP. And since it is damage reduction, this also helps increase their effective healing.
Lumen s3's raw hps also goes very hard for crushers. He is pretty comparable to Warfin time.
So quercus, warfarin and shinning is good for quartz 😊
I have both
Sanctuary doesn't work with Hoederer specifically, since he already gives himself sanctuary and it won't stack with other sources.
@@VonTachyon It uses the highest value sanctuary. So Quercus won't be able to boost it since even with module and pots she has the same value. The other abjurers will be able to boost it once their conditions are met though.
And then you add Fragility. +20% damage taken. Which means big numbers go up.
Suzuran also slows, so lots of time before contact to get a few hits off for free.
I'd love a series explaining what every class branch specializes on, something similar to this but with Dreadnoughts or arts guards for example would be entertaining.
As much as I would love to do that....
...I am only really this knowledgable with Crushers lmao.
@@BloopsArknights and it’s a lot of effort too
Needless to say that TONS of people would find it helpful, but that’s too much work for just one person - putting aside the fact that you’ll have to constantly argue with people who disagree with you and are too stubborn to try and understand different perspectives
Id also be super down to seeing you make more stuff like this, but I hope this wouldn’t lead to a burn out for content creation like other people went through (most notably Yii and his reviews of different classes)
U can try searching Yii's channel (although he quitted making arknights content and some class analysis are years old), it's still very informative about them in general and what to use them to. But the most recent archetypes for each class u will not have an analysis about--
@@BloopsArknights I understand it's a lot of effort but i am so, so, so tired of metaheads throwing away 95% of operators I'd be so grateful to see more analysis from a perspective that is willing to actually engage with the game fully. If you ever make another archetype breakdown, i will be watching
Thanks for this video. The community had pretty much tossed crushers aside and I'm glad someone decided to give them a fair assessment.
No operator deserves to be tossed aside. Everyone deserves their chance.
@@BloopsArknights except Brawlers/Fighters who aren't named Mountain/Chongyue
They deserve to be tossed aside
(please help me make good use of my wife Flint I don't know what to do with Brawlers/Fighters)
@@itsteebz484I never treat Mountain as a brawler but more treat him like lite version of Centurion 😂
@@HuruHara575 It's so over (for Brawlers who aren't Mountain or Chongyue)
@@itsteebz484 I've gotten a ton of mileage out of Indra since release though. Beehunter can be really fun with a buffsquad too, like a mini tachanka.
10:00 Thanks to your choice of example operators, I am now imagining Quartz, Matoimaru and Franka all standing next to each other.
Legs for days, I am in Heaven.
Edit: and Specter. My word, legs enjoyers eat well with this game.
W take, especially on the weakness of Crushers. I myself use them, and yes, they dont really struggle, only against high physical dps enemies with low atk
I'd rather give an Ines take than a W take, but I'll take what I can get.
W???
Same... As someone who has maxed trust my 2 Crusher guards... It not really that hard to work around their weakness... I mean I would still put a Medic to support my Operators... So the need for healing is not an issue...
Quick summary:
+ stable dps againts high def enemies
+ high survivability with certain criteria
- weak againts high dps enemies
± her capabilities againts long range capable enemies sometimes irrelevant (in terms of comparison) because most of long range enemies rend to use arts damage
Did i sum it up right?
Side note : low rarities tend to be where HG cook their classes wich set the baseline standard amd what could their 6* counterparts would be, HG makes this mistake twice by releasing the 6* blast caster and flinger first makes designing the lower rarity counterparts much harder, because they wanna fix past mistakes but also dont wanna powercreep the current available 6*
Yeah basically.
Crushers aren't really weak to high DPS enemies though, just low attack rate high DPS enemies. As you can have a nuker enemy with a low attack speed that a Crusher can excel against, while a brawler-type enemy is their worst nightmare.
And yeah, better at dealing with ranged arts damage than ranged physical damage.
Yeah,we saw it with...Loop.
4 star operator but hell she is good
They are good against arts damage melee units as well as ranged arts since they have high hp.
beeg sword
brain happy
simple as
-Musha- Soloblade enjoyers can relate
Meanwhile Ulpianus pulls up with a goddamn anchor
You, like everyone else, missed he part where a Crusher's giant HP pool allows them to tank True Damage. You mentioned arts damage, but made no mention of a certain Londinium Artillery Cannon or equivelant threats.
Ayy we love to see support for Crushers! Tbh I’m like a hipster when it comes to them. The more people that think they’re bad, the better. I don’t need validation to know they’re great.
Can’t wait for my mans Hoederer, I got the Darknights family ready to help him
"Crushers gain splash damage."
*Me staring at the new Earthshaker subclass on CN*
Technically their splash damage is different, but yeah idk why there's now so many similar guard archetypes
@@doomclasher9287 The idea probably was to make a splash damage ground unit, but that is exactly what would go in the list of guard archetype. I haven't read up much on the details, but splash damage on a ground unit with just a single tile range is almost non-sensical because centurion guards exist, especially if the splash area isn't significantly large enough to make the two different.
Also Savage is in a funny position because lmao, the miner rabbit with explosive hammer isn't a splash damage ground unit.
Honestly yeah, I like and agree with your great takes. The game is more fun if you do things your way, and being challenged is part of that fun (most of the time).
I already had Wind Chimes on my to-build priority list on the lower end, and upon watching your video about defending Crushers, I immediately moved her on the higher end and it was worth it.
Another least used subclass, abjurer, might help crusher with the sanctuary talent.
Genuinally true. I forgot to talk about them in the script but they are a good combo piece, as sanctuary does help with effective HP and effective healing.
I wish abjurers had shorter skill cycles (nine color deer) and or infinite skill duration (quercus) to make them more viable options....
Especially Silence Alter (if you were around for that event anyway) since she has passive Shelter affected by hp rather than hard hp cut-offs so crushers always have Shelter regardless of hp, and can boost it with S2
@@gaswe9236 >infinite skill duration (quercus)
Quercus S1 - unlimited duration.
Specter also has an additional target
true
which makes theor max DpS another 50% higher, and practical DpS often (when blocking for self) about 100% higher since comfortable block count = max block - 1 (otherwise it's too easy to accidentally leak)
and if you S2 her and bring gladia you are golden..
I liked this very good and informative.
Agreed. This is why Arknights is great. IT IS like MTG. Work with what you have and you will be fine clearing any content
Finally someone who gets Crushers.
Especially the low DPS argument is mind boggling. Anyone who has taken a -ATK tag in CC should know how easy it is to get defense thresholded, and Crushers rarely ever get Defense Thresholded right off the bat, so they need a downside. But even with that downside of 0 defense with a good team they have great value.
ill be honest i had no idea wind chimes was a crusher. i thought she was a sniper for some reason.
How lol ?
You must be confused her with Jieyun which is a sniper and both of them have similar color scheme and released closely (Jieyun released during Chong Yue and Lin Yuxia while Windchime released during Qiubai)
@@govinlock8568 yes exactly
Her outfit resembles hunter or sniper at Ragnarok Online.
Your analogy about Arknights being a card game and finding fun lil combos from esoteric cards is genius. The way I play the game nowadays (and always, really) is to just use fun operators, and that roster might change depending on my mood. Sometimes I do like using super overpowered ass operators armed with pocket-sized nuclear bombs to clear the the stage super braindead and fast, and sometimes I like using Shamare to debuff the enemies enough so that Archetto can get rid of the medium-sized targets and use a well-timed Fia S2 to annihilate the bigger elites at the same time. Finding niche use cases for niche operators is a pretty big part of the fun of the game, and relating that to finding fun card combos is something I never thought of before.
Good video I give this one a big thumbs up / 10
Wow, you convinced me to try out my class
What's your playstyle when it comes to Arknights? Do you use all the meta operators?
Me: "Men."
Friends: "What???"
Me: "Gae."
Me too!
"Goats."
"What?"
"Baaa."
I love men
@shino012 good one
I love your videos, you speak understandable english and come up with REAL numbers to back your positions. Explain things out very well, love it. I don't usually sub, but you earned it.
10:51 - 10:59
Yeah, that sums it up.
I remember people being mad that the Phalynx caster module didn't just make them Mylnar on stilts.
I mean, I could see the argument in a game about resource management. If you have limited resources to pull ops and limited resources to develop ops, it makes no sense to prioritize an extremely niche operator outside of like personal bias. It applies to entire class branches like splash/mystic casters, abjurers, and flingers. Same with how no ones championing Eunectes, Stainless, or Hellagur.
@@rainzerdesu that certainly applies to new players, but after a bit every account reaches that tipping point where they can clear just about any piece of content bar maybe extreme outliers like DOS or Max Risk CC. I think that's about the point where players should start investing into weird ideas or niches and see what's possible.
For instance someone cleared DOS S-3 with Stainless' turrets as the main DPS in combination with Angelina (and other supporters) for a Supporters Only clear.
@@torinriley7569Even if you were in such a position, it still makes no sense if we look at the banner release schedule. Outside of spending extra or being extremely lucky, rolling on Hoederer results in having to sacrifice one or more of the operators on schedule that are just objectively better.
@@rainzerdesu Or you can simply wait til the next "front that was" banner drops whenever we're getting close to Episode 14 releasing on global and have a banner that has Stainless, Ines, and Hoederer. That and a build account only really needs to worry about limited ops. Sure, Ray and Degenbrecher are really powerful damage ops, but I also already have Surtur, Texas Alter, and Pozyomka. I can affort to wait for these ops to rerun on a different banner.
This year is a bit more whack than usual what with the Rainbow 6 double rerun, but normally speaking budgets aren't particularly tight unless you really want to get the op on release.
@@torinriley7569 The problem is that TFtW banners are accepted to be not worth pulling unless you don't own a majority of the ones on them so 2+. With the Hoederer, Ines was a must pull and had multiple TFtWs with her and Stainless had multiple better TFtWs with Horn and Sailleach so for people who would pull on these banners, the likelihood of not owning Ines and Stainless is low.
For future banners, we have an immediate Virtuosa which is a new class so that already makes her better if the argument is for "niche" purposes as well as having Viviana on her banner for "niche" purposes as an Arts Fighter. Degen is meta defining based on what we know from CN voting her the most influential release of 2023. Even if you skipped Ray because Typhon, there's still Shu and Ela, both good ops and both limited. Shu's banner also has Zuo Le for "niche" arguments being a good musha. Then after there's Ascalon which also is a better op than Hoederer and fits the "niche" focus since she's an Ambusher. And then right after her is the 5th anniversary event so that's not skippable.
So the idea of pulling for Hoederer either for usability or niche are both objectively bad.
One thing you didn’t mention was Abjurers. They are really effective at supporting Crushers because of their Sanctuary, which boosts their EHP even further.
Abjurer is another branch that people consider bad, even though it’s not. Abjurer and Crushers are in the same boat of there being better options.
Yeah I didnt realize I forgot to talk about them until after I was basically done editing lol.
During and after the Blacksteel event I started to use Silence Alter and Quercus a lot more. I'm starting to see more opportunities to bring them now. Notably Silence on s2 helped me beat DoS A-3 by letting me stall the boss with my underbuilt defenders.
Sanctuary wont stack on each other dude, they wouldn't have any synergy together
@@kurobako6001 I know that. However Abjurers (minus Quercus) either have higher Sanctuary effects, or has ways of increasing their own to a higher effect, which can still be very beneficial to each of them.
@@echigokurogane8612 that's just straight up wasting the crusher's innate Sanctuary tho. You're better off just using abjurers with other classes since Sanctuary is calculated after def and res and using crushers with a good healer
Thanks for this video. Clarified some doubts I had with crushers. :D
The speech at the end was very good, reminds me why I like these unit-driven games
Main issue with crushers isn't the class but the skills HG gives to operators and lack of module, you might think they don't need any but they HAVE to, any type of damage reduction is key for them, they need more than what is given on their talents, that's why for example with the module they could get reduces damage by enemies blocked and from ranged attacks when the unit is not blocking, some kind of survivability for them to keep alive without depending as much from medics, even dodge can work, some kind of physical and arts dodge while their skills are not active can be useful too (in case of Qiubai when it IS active)
As mentioned with the skills: Wind chimes S2 only gets shelter during the skill duration, stops attacking for 5 seconds only do barely do 7k damage as max with only 1 second of stun, Hoederer S2 needs a whole 3 seconds of attacking for only 1 second of stun which isn't worth, not to talk about Qiubai who receives INCREASED DAMAGE, being someone who is already weak and needs any kind of deffensive ability, HG didn't cook with operators' skills, they had potential but only took that potential with Hoederer S1 and S3, other skills were bad + attack up gamma.
I think that part of the problem with crushers are players expectations, they wanted somethin extremely good at their job or something that is set and forget they can handle on their own due to them doing almost everything, and if you take into consideration all the cracked OP 6* like surtr or texalter then crushers looks weakers specially if you only see quartz (the worst crusher imo due to crontradictory kit)
Thank you for creating a serious in-depth analysis video, we definitely need these kinds of discussions, because it proves that there are more to Arknights than just gameplay (this side of the community is already overbloated that cc are quitting).
Anyway, thanks for giving me a reason to raise Quartz, I always wanted to raise at least one operator per sub-class, and she fits the bill. I'm not rolling for Hoederer while Wind Chimes is boring.
I luv the quality behind the video essay! Well done :> The thourough explaination makes it easy to understand for new players how to use them
I do agree with the "work with what you have" mentality but here that only really applies if you were pulling for someone else and then the game hands you a crusher so you find a way to make it work to spite on the gacha gods that cursed your pulls. Still the question remains, why would anyone bother to pull for a crusher *willingly*?
Because the character is cool/hot? Because big ATK and HP number go brrrr? Not everyone cares about only using the absolute most effective units, that's such a boring way to play the game. It's so much more fun to try to figure out how to make your favourites work (and then bring in the meta big guns if the stage is too hard lol).
@@jessicastjames6202 based
Please make a more content like this.
i will
We're debunking SUPAH with this one
GOOD
@@BloopsArknights What's supah? An acronym?
@@roland96thebloxxer (can't entirely tell if your reply is a joke) Controversial Arknights youtuber and Gummy simp
@@doomclasher9287 I was serious. I don't do arknights TH-cam unless I'm looking for class guides like these crushers
@@roland96thebloxxer he's a weirdo, you're doing fine not knowing him.
Great Video!! 👍
I await Hoederer he seems like a fun Crusher
came around to crushers after your first rant and starting to see how i could apply them. Now they fit in pretty well for me and they are fun to use and now waiting for Hoederer just for s1 to be even more of a lazy doktah.
The other slight counter to the dps argument is that with higher base attack they're more likely to waste damage on overkill unless they can oneshot something, it's the same issue most of the besieger class has. To be honest the main issue I see with crushers is that their niche of dealing with enemies with both high resistance and high defense is shared with true damage ops and you have to e2 Amiya to progress the story. There's not much reason to build one unless you really like them or are so late into your account that you're moving into niche clears.
Very insightful! I was looking forward to pulling for Hoederer with the introduction of Chapter 13 and I absolutely cannot wait to try him out! I’m glad I came across this video to gain a better understanding of crushers!
Amazing video, cheers!
I love this video!!! Been desperately searching for a high-quality arknights channel ever since we lost our beloved Yii to burnout and it looks like I found one. Gonna go binge everything else here, can't wait to see what comes next! Your understanding of what operators are for is really helpful and really educational
Good stuff on pinpointing the use cases for crushers.
I get this, I like crushers but more so I like Incantation Medics and when I expressed how I was excited for the new op today it was pointed out that she was Incantation. I'm aware that's why I'm excited. Her kit gives me plans to pair her with Quart or Matu in IS because that sounds fun
Best timing for bringing good light on Crusher operators. They deserve to be recognized as the way they should be.
8:16 It's not a Shining thing actually, all regular flat def/res effects are applied before the %-based modifiers. You can see the same thing by messing around with Bison's talent or various sources of flat buffs/debuffs (for example a 0 res operator getting affected by Burn with NG S3 active will go from 38 to 0 even though Burn is supposed to be -20, Bison with S2 up loses 220 def from Corrosion instead of 100). Only Inspire is applied differently for some reason.
Good video btw
A pretty good video, it was a bit tough for me to keep up because of... Smooth Brainess, but now, i can at least say that i value Crusher more now and am interested to maybe build one in the future. And it also makes me a bit more regretful to skip Hoederer...
Amazing video, thank you, Doctor
Good video! I am excited to combo hoederer and sora
I think you mean Hoederer and U-Official
I have PTSD of Eureka...@@BloopsArknights
I've literally made a video before on how high-HP operators (Specifically Matoimaru) are better at taking super heavy hits than Defenders. Crushers are a very fun archetype and I wish I had more excuses to raise and use them.
I would say with this video you Crushed our expectations
nice-
13:26 this is false btw because +% buffs are additive and not multiplicative so it should be base atk * 1.7 (50 from skill and 20 from talent) * 2.3
15:00 out of every gacha game in existence, Arknights has by far the most robust community framework to support MTG-style official formats, now its just up to Hypergryph to officially sanction all these community formats people already play, and finally give people an official reason to play all these lower rarity and overshadowed operators in their own formats.
we already have a community leaderboard for formats!!!!! (Arkrec)
I wish you gave more coverage to Wind Chimes on this video. I like her S2, and I see the advantage on having an HP tank, but her s2 seems to have abysmal masteries, so I never build her. I like s2 because the skill is quite unique.
Thanks for the video.
You've inspired me to raise and use Quartz, as well as subscribe. I really like your style of content and approach, fully backing up claims with clear and qualitative evidence. I look forward to further content and if you cover other underused archetypes!
great video, thank you for explanation for crushers!
really love your no gacha series, love from TW server
I got to wonder if we're going to have another brawler situation. When everybody thought they were the worst till mountain almost playing like a different archetype- kept him relevant. But I understand if I'm totally getting hordoror completely wrong
People dislike Brawlers for some reason, and its because Mountain's main usage breaks out of that identity, making him akin to a centurion. Hoederer on the other hand does a good job at retaining the Crusher identity, as i explain in the video, so I wouldnt see this happening.
Brawler isn’t even that bad of a branch. Flint and Dagda in particular are good ones, hell Dagda might be able to reach Chongyue’s level of damage.
@@echigokurogane8612dude i looooove flint she’s so fun to use
No the problem is that brawlers actually are just bad and swordmasters have a similiar issue.
Crusher's have a downside, but their upside actually works within the context of the games mechanics baring rare edge cases because when it comes to physical damage a single bigger hit is pretty much ALWAYS better then several small hits. As shown in the video crushers retain high effective DPS even through high defense numbers, but swordmasters and brawlers have literally the exact opposite problem. They have very high theoretical DPS... that is effectively never applicable because they loose basically all of it against even middling defense stats, even what would largely be classed as 'trash' mobs often have enough to basically halve their damage and against a wide swath of elites they basically do chip.
For brawlers and really any class with a 'lower attack but high attack speed' gimmick to work the game would need to be careful to provide enemies where that's actually advantageous. So basically enemies with some kind of percentage based damage reduction ability or large HP pools with extremely low defense, but this functionally NEVER happens. Virtually all enemies have defense and it's generally been inflating over the games life and also inflates with rank with the result that brawlers are just bad against the majority of enemy units.
Then add in the cruddy one block to really seal the deal on them just having no real use. Crushers at least bring damage and bulk against non-phyical damage to the table (along with a usable block count) both are genuinely useful and while not ultra meta they're generally workable due to those raw stats within how the game actually functions.
Brawlers bring nothing to the table.
Their gimmick is due to core game design actually actively detrimental. There defensive stats are deeply unimpressive (there seems to have been some thoughts of dodge being part of their kits, but they refused to ever make the percentages high enough to matter on any of them.), they do basically no damage to almost anything that matters, AND they're one block on top of it which makes them even worse lane holders then the first two already would have. They are fundemtnally broken and bad because in a game where defense is an integer rather then percentage based reduction fast weak attacks are ALWAYS going to be a loosing proposition.
Mountain had basically just not even be a brawler to actually be good.
The thing with Brawlers is that they were designed to be an early match dps, and in that regard, they were crazy good at it. Until year 3 we didn't exactly have many sub 10 cost units with actual dps and survivability in the same package.
The *problem* with brawlers, is that myrtle and other banner vanguards exist and completely ruined the whole concept of DP generation in arknights. There's no longer a scenario where you ever want an early laneholder that can't just be solved by generating more DP so that you can slap down mudrock before the first wave wolves even get to your blue box.
So now the actual reward of brawlers barely exists, because people aren't thinking about what to use their first 15 dp for anymore, they're thinking about how quickly they can get combo out the rest of their team instead.
For their costs, brawlers such as indra are actually insanely good at what they do, and that's always been their gimmick. Incredibly DP efficient lane holders.
Also arknights doesn't really support 1v1 units anymore so. If your unit doesn't have at least 2 block they're kinda worthless in modern arknights whoops.
Sadly I do like crushers when Quartz came about I was thinking this archetype attacks all in range causing splash damage w its slow ASPD but only attacks blocked enemies.
As I saw Wind Chimes S2 I though will cleave even aerial enemies but alas no 😢😢😢
Thx for their analysis it helps renew my love for crushers 👍
I thought for some reason that said 587k subs. I was shocked. Everything in this video is the reason I liked the idea of crushers when they were released, and I thought they were going to be really fun. I never bought quartz though. At least it is higher than 587 subs now btw!
I also live by the reasoning at the end of the video and Kyo does too. Just use the ops you love and make them work. That is the beauty of the game. It is also the reason why I never bought surtr or thorns and instead level swire the elegant wit to m6 mod3 instead of typhon who just sits at e1 lvl 1. Just use ops that make the game enjoyable instead of meta, but then DOS gives you a headache.
Excellent analysis of crusher, really serves the other side of the argument well. Now do frostleaf, because I don't personally agree with the "there are no bad operators" way of thinking, bad does not mean unusable, it means their kit conflicts with each other and as a result, creates a highly confusing operator that you can see that who creates them didn't really put that much thoughts in it.
But still, great vid.
The definition of 'good' and 'bad' obviously differs from person to person (i wanna do a video in the future on that).
But the whole "there are no bad operators" mindset isnt really meant to be an objective statement that literally means "all operators are good and if you think they are bad, youre bad". In reality, the phrase "there are no bad operators" means more "an operator's comparitive quality or lackluster design wont stop me from trying to learn how to use them."
Hense why in the video I say "There are no bad operators, just people who gave up on trying." I made a video about why I think frostleaf is a bad operator (except with a nuanced and unique take because dead horse).
I understand that some operators are better than others, some operators being downright difficult to optimize. I just personally subscribe to a mindset that prioritizes giving operators a second thought rather than casting them aside permanently with the "bad" label written on them, as it is far from constructive.
@@BloopsArknights I do think that just saying them "bad" could lead to misunderstanding and less constructive arguments, but I can also say that people who judges operators with just "bad" has no intentions of giving constructive criticism in the first place.
For me, saying an op is bad is putting HG, or the devs, into responsibility, they have to take account for their mistakes and lack of foresight, by saying there is no bad operator, you're taking away accountability that HG should be accounted for, I also spent a lot of time using "bad" operator, and I still reached the conclusion that it is"bad", and when should a person be considered gave up on trying? If I used "that operator" for months, only to feel disappointed and move on be considered "gave up"? Must I try endlessly to justify that they're not "bad"? This is why in deeper discussions, I tend to use "questionable" as a description to these "bad operators".
Ive never used a crusher before so im super happy to have stumbled across this video on the day i pull for hoederer. Honestly sounds like a fun class even if they arent like meta or w/e was going on with people calling them bad.
I dont think ak is as fun if you go mega hard into only building meta or i guess meta efficient units. I've only been playing the game so long bc i get excited building units for a possibility of a really fun team combo (IS made me raise a LOT of baseline 3s &4s and ive been filling in units that add to that ever since lol)
Great video btw, glad to hear there are folks uplifting the classes and units they enjoy. I had to unfollow another ak youtuber a few hours ago bc their take on talking about crushers seemed antithetical to what i wanted out of a cc forthis game, it made me feel *sad* over wanting to use this unit and thats just not a good vibe at all.
What upsets me the most is that it was very easy to make them more useful by simply giving them passive %HP regeneration like the Specter, but apparently only Hoederer will have something like that, and it will be a subclass with 1 usable unit
awesome video, as a massive lupo lover i’ve always really liked quartz so it’s nice to see someone go in depth about her use cases like this.
also i can NOT believe you showed so much IS footage and didn’t mention that the “recover %HP/s” and max HP boost relics turn her literally immortal
Actually for the centurion vs Crusher vs Dreadnought comparison, you might as well multiply the damage by three and two respectively, cause Centurions and Crusher aoe is based off their block count. Basically Quartz, a 4 star, is twice as effective as a 5 star franka due to block, while centurion is still better than Crusher for being a 3 block if we simply take in the numbers
Let's simplify it this way. Centurions have good sustain because they are meant for laneholding, hence Specter with the passive healing, Blaze with the def bonus and the extra range, and Gavial with the damage res. Dreadnoughts are for boss killing, hence the higher hp and higher def. Crushers is between the two, so more on stalling the elites who have high damage, and two of them at best.
I thank IS maps that made me mix and experiments different OPS
I get giddy and excited to recruit a free unit that I don't have to check out what they can do
I've been curious what they will do for the module. I would like to see them add a new buff status to the game that the module would grant Crushers.
Overkill: When a killing blow is landed, all excess damage is converted into healing and restores the HP of the unit that dealt said damage by 200% of that amount.
This would help resolve their biggest weakness revolving around low-DEF, low-ATK, fast-ASPD enemies. In just this video, two examples show: 1) 1:22 with the dog; That is a lot of potential self-healing. 2) 7:52 at the bottom.
for their survivability, I thought you would have mentioned one of the abjurers lol. Nice vid, I hope to build with Quartz or Wind Chimes one day
You made me want to try crushers and try making it work for me, maybe one day I'll bring one of the crushers into my daily squad, thanks for the great content bro.
Really good video, completely changed how I view them.
I actually learned a lot through this video! Though I'm still not going to build any crushers, seeing the actual numbers really helped me to understand what it is that crushers are supposed to do. It was like taking a fun math class :)
As a nicheknights lover (specifically ambushers/stalkers for me), I say everyone should keep on keeping on :D
though i never use Crusher and nor do i hold a good impression of them, this video has indeed changed my view greatly about Crusher, they are still very badly designed but i certainly do not trash them the moment i saw them anymore, this was very informative and easily understandable, keep it up 👍
Honestly, fair. Loads of people just dont like the gamefeel of Crushers and I 100% get that. They are awkward, 100%. You can either get used to it or not use em, both options work.
So basically Crushers do exactly what their namesake insists
They do a lot of dmg to tanky enemies
This is my 1st video I've ever seen from you and Im loving it. Im about to binge-watch everything from your channel. I will disable my adblocker and have your playlist on repeat through the night.
These were the best 16 minutes of the month as far as im concerned,
Thank you, I had a great time.
I knew I'd love crushers the first time I saw Quartz chunk right past a heavy defender like their DEF didn't even exist. Quartz was a big part of my chapter 11 clears, having an ocean of HP is a big help against people who shred your def (lol) or do true damage DoTs
"There are no bad operators"
*laughs in frostleaf*
It's funny to me that some peoples think being able to cite ONE operator out of soon to be 400 is somawhat of an own... because they rather take a saying too literaly rather than trying to understand the meaning behind it...
In french we call peoples like you "enculeur de mouches" (wich mean flies fucker), so please, take this expression as literaly as the "no bad operator one" and go do so...
Very interesting overview and insight, thank you!
I really like the last quarter of your video talking about your card game analogy. I wish I had the time (and in-game resources lmao) to fck around and clear stages the way I want to. Unfortunately, I'm busy with school and many events are time-limited so I would much rather speedrun everything with OP ops so I can save some time for the cinematics. It doesn't help that Hypergryph releases events or stages with extremely tanky or difficult enemies just so they can deal with powercreep, which hurts the ability for more niche and average ops to perform well. But still, I appreciate this playstyle to Arknights that quite a good deal of people take part in
I was going to pull Hoederer during this banner (one of your other videos convinced me that crushers were good when used correctly), but decided to wait once I saw CN get "The Front That Was 4" banner, which is a much less risky banner overall (am currently suffering from the ptsd of doing 139 draws to get Jessica alter)
"there are not bad operator, just players who have given up on trying" this sums up why i don't really want to talk to my friends about arknights anymore. they're always just like i'm just going to look up a guide and use the same ops i always use. it's really frustrating when you see potential in an operator and want to talk about some intricacies and get blown off.
i of course always believed in hoederer as a guyknights niche player but i was shocked to actually find out en fandom think he's trash anyway cause of the archetype. like huh? is anything that isnt surtr or gg just trash? (the answer, for those people, is ye sunfortunately)
anyway, loved how informative this video was. i saw you said you weren't planning on doing more since you only are this knowledgeable about crushers, but this is good content people crave so if you see it in your heart then maybe you can become knowledgeable :p
I like your closing message on this vid, watching nicheknights clears of harder content really makes the magic of Arknights come together
Personally, I really miss the "work with what you have" aspect of early-mid game. Racking my brains over who's the best to use among my more limited/weaker roster. I could do self limiting stuff but it honestly just isn't the same. Mid-game Arknights is the most fun I've had with the game (Along with IS)
Enlightening take on using crushers for higher threats tho, just got Hoederer to complete the W squad and gonna give him a spin
The real Crusher defence we were missing, thank you!
I don't mind them lacking defense, I just wish they had something more to distinguish themselves from Centurions other than somewhat higher attack but slower attack speed, and otherwise worse in less block, no defense but significantly more hp, etc. When they function so similar to each other, and the differences are stats alone, if some polarizing differences here there, they feel way too similar. Even Duelist/Dreadnaught guards and Duelist defenders aren't as similar seeming to each other as Centurions and Crushers are!
Oh, also, I wish Wind Chimes' 2nd skill was, like, 50-60% of its total SP cost, rather than the way too high amount it is now, and Quartz's stun was way higher proc if not even guaranteed. :D
1:15 map: at least on lower difficulties if you place a ranged op on the vertical fan the jetpack guys don't lift off because they happen to slow themselves well enough by attacking. Then you can exclusively focus on top lane.
The first time Quartz came out and introduced the Crusher archetype, my immediate thought was "boy, we really don't need them dreadnoughts anymore save for Radiant Knight". Never used any dreadnoughts again so far unless I'm running low on Hope in IS mode.
Very fitting since Horderer is coming in few day
Good video. Agree with most of it (especially with crushers getting a good stat package).
The main quibble I got is that I disagree with your assessment of crusher skills, especially wind chime's S2. Cement has a very similar skill (s1) that they both do AoE damage but cements just charges so much faster (6 seconds vs 25). Even if cement's skill has slightly less dmg, a little less range, and no stun you just get so much more out of cement. The long cycle time on Wind Chimes s2 really hurts that skill.
And that's really the core reason that crushers get overlooked imo: quartz and wind chimes just have such mediocre skills that their stats can't really save them.
Nice analysis! I think Crushers are really underrated, they’re actually much better than people said them to be. It’s good to see there are players ready to try different varieties, and being able to try different things is what I love about Arknights
This video alone giving me hope on keep using Operators like Vigil, only because I love his italian voice.
cant wait for the hunter breakdown lmao
You know, the moment you show "One with Nothing" and "Barren Glory", I hit that sub button.
I built Wind Chimes since she's part of my beloved Cowknights. She is very much a welcome addition there, and even outside that dumb niche of 4 defenders and 4 guards, she's just fun to use. No regrets, just smash.
Been so eagerly waiting to hear you talk about them in depth once again man
And you cooked so hard!
And let me tell you, i use centurions in situations i am not supposed to be using them all the time simply because i adore all of them as a class
So whenever i am using quartz s1 or wind chimes s2 and see them dealing a huge hit on a basic attack without having their skill on, i genuinely get jumpscared since im not used to seeing that from my off-skill Estelle/Blaze, they are super reliant on their skills and kits to work
But crushers, at least from my experience, they do really well even without their skills on! So whenever you activate their skills, you REALLY feel the difference it makes
It will forever hurt me to see people compare centurions with crushers. Like yeah of course i have a bias for centurions thats just who i am as a person, but i love crushers as who they are too and i acknowledge they should be treated differently from centurions!
I’m really glad you put the effort into this video, it turned out super wonderful, and i hope you feel proud of yourself 🐊 ❤️
I watched this video 2 times
This is simply the reason I play Arknights, I grab my beloved team and try to clear everything with them
It's actually soulcrushing when I cannot find the way and need to add one of the "why are you not using them already" characters >
I've never played Arknights in my life and just random;y got your video in recommended but I am familiar with the TD genre and watched all of it. Absolutely love your style of narrative and numbers for characters! 👍
Thank you, I will sub, although I don't know if I will watch more content (because I don't play the game)
I mean... I make Arknights content, you really aren't gonna get much else lmao
@@BloopsArknights I wanted to try it a year ago, but was too overwhelmed and wasn't sure I would ever catch up to others.
I wish old games gave more stuff to be players who want to begin playing many years after the game's release
@miorioff Honestly, you dont need to worry about "catching up". Arknights is a single player game. I started playing only like 8 months ago and here I am. It shouldnt ve overwheling, just dont worry about the "correct" way of doing things. Just chill and enjoy the ride.
Actual use case for crushers
IS: atk +% when skill activation. I had some fun with windchine in is3 -> where enemy res is 75. She absolutely nailed the hell out of those pesky little jellyfish against izumik
thanks to you i might built my quarts with this info dump!
I feel like there's a _huge_ contingent of players who think slow attack speed *always* = bad dps. I even used to be one of them, because I only built characters with reasonably fast attack speed, I thought for the longest time physical damage was totally useless against high defense and would always use arts damage to deal with it.
When I finally built silverash (to cope with failing to get Młynar lol) and tried him out, I was confused why he was doing such good damage against high def enemies because I had just totally misunderstood how defense works.
Nowadays I'm a coldshot truther. I still don't really understand how defense works, but I have at least learned that big numbers, surprisingly, means big damage.
15:40 this so much oh my god. Im so tired of this Gamepress mindset that op combos are a waste of squad space and not just... how you will always have play the game regardless? We have 12 squad slots for a reason. A character isn't automatically worthless if they don't play the game for you all on their own.
Here is a very simple DEF lesson
Damage = ATK - DEF
if damage < 5% of ATK, then damage = 5% of ATK
@@BloopsArknights ah, thanks. I've definitely read explanations of it before but it's a major in-one-ear-out-the-other subject for me. I think might be able to retain it better seeing it spelled out so plainly like that, but it's still one of those things where my brain expects it to act more like how res works because that's just how I've always intuitively understood how defense works in games like skyrim (no clue if thats even actually how it works in skyrim lmao)
the yugioh slander is crazy
but really good video!
Very nice video, very informative
good explanation! I'm down to how Crusher work and how to use them in my strat. I do convince myself to build Crusher, it's just "how to use". hell like I can use Centurion as a replacement. But I do wondering, " Crusher can't be that bad. there has to be a way to use them properly." as this video bring light with pack of info, now I know how to use them.
thanks.
As someone that try to do lupoknight and try to use Texalter less as possible, learning to use Quartz better make me happy. I always consider skill 2 to the better one as I assume the stun help her survive longer. I was blind sided by how most of skill 1 are bad (despite prefering aosta skill 1 over skill 2). She does gain a more sizeable dps gain which may allow her to kill enemies faster than skill 2 which can actually make her survive longer. Of course there will be scenario where I would prefer the stun but I always appreciate more options.
Interesting, i was convinced they were garbage and Hypergryph was drunk. Though they are completely replaceable, they are better than I thought
So it's a hybrid of dreadnought and Centurion?
Focusing dealing with one heavy elite/boss enemy in a lane that has that extra enemy that comes in every few seconds?
A big chunk of the community also thinks that if an operator can't handle everything by themselves they are replaceble/not worth the investment. For example let's take someone like qiubai, many ignored her because she's considered weak (and while i love her i admit that HG "balancing" gave her the short stick and gave her half s3 unless you m3 her, causing people to ignore her because most showcase were at skill level 7) but as soon that you pair her with a slower/binder she's quite good. Now let's use crushers, if you leave them to fend for themselves they easly die but when you pair them with someone like warfarin or abjurers (mainly quercus and silence alter) they can candle big treaths for quite a while, as an example i used hoederer to stare at the chapter 13 boss for so much time that the boss died of boredom because he couldn't beat hoederer hp, this allowed me to clear the map of all the enemies and then delete the boss and all it took was warfarin and an occasional silence alter drone. I could have used some busted team and clear the stage faster, but i don't see the fun in that, in the end arknights is a team builder game, with synergies and niches and if you just turn off the brain every time it gets stale.
I still think HG should think more before making new archetypes but at least crushers are not that bad as people think.
This is the end of my rant(?) and thank you for reading.
tbh i wish hypergryph leaned in with the dreadnought 2 concept and made them single block duelists since dreadnoughts already have an identity crisis between the helidrops (skadi, nearlter, morgan) and the fast rotation elite killers (franka, matoimaru, melantha). i think those concepts were developed into duelist defenders and musha guards, but if they're intent on throwing out more guard subclasses then they might as well just stick to ideas that already work.
i do kind of think the ASPD thing makes sense as a complaint because crushers are among the slowest melee attackers, comparable with fortress defenders who get massive range and AOE attacks as a reward for NOT blocking, and ranged units get away with the high DPH slow attack archetype since block was never part of their utility. although i do think it's interesting that crushers have better ATK and ASPD than mystic casters (who are kind of a punching bag still but not as much as crushers) on top of physical damage scaling better than arts against enemy stats...
sidenote, +ATK% from operators stacks additively with itself, so wind chimes S2 is 100%+50%+20% * 230% = 6052 damage with the stats you show (still crazy!). however stage buffs like story mode, CC support tags, and i believe IS relics do stack multiplicatively. this isn't really relevant to operator powerlevel, although windchimes having a high DMG% multiplier on top of high base ATK means she scales well with other ATK% buffs as well as the ones innate to her kit. mlynar on the other hand has low base ATK, high +ATK% modifier, and mid DMG% multiplier, so he's F tier for warfarin synergy.
sorry for the wall of text, this was a cool video and gave me a lot to think about :) part of it is my own salt whenever HG releases another goddamn guard subclass that just does the same thing as a year 1 guard subclass but you've sold me on crushers having a unique niche. perhaps too unique for their own good, but like you said it's always fun to make the "suboptimal" actually work.
the blonde horse comes out when things need to get done, the mercenary does when I want to have fun :D Crushers are great