I really enjoyed this. My 2 cents that I experienced in my own house was my mother had me washing my own clothes and ironing my dad's shirts and doing dishes and help with cooking meals. I loved helping but as my younger brother came to the age of helping he was excused from it. I brought it up with my mother and she said well he wouldnt do a good job of it and then she felt she would have to redo or do these things right. I really felt like (and I was like 12) that she was raising me to be subservient to a man and my brother being dependent on a woman. Today if my brother didnt have a wife to do these things for him my mother still would but I'm expected to help my mother. I really resented this and thought my mom really fell short on parenting because of it. Sad part is I enjoyed helping my mom but I hated that as a female tyrannosaurus this was my "role" because of it.
Oh for sure. My sister dealt with a constant and regular distrust and discipline that I never had. I remember when we were in middle-school and high school my father had a strict policy against us having the other sex over at the house unless he was present. Well, I as the guy got away constantly with having girls over and my sister had to hide her boyfriend like he was a dirty secret. My dad caught me with my girlfriend over and in my room for days on end and I barely got a slap on the wrist but when he caught my sister sneaking her boyfriend over for just a few hours he blew his lid and nearly beat this teenager's ass and tried to ground her for a month.
One of the most notable effects of toxic masculinity that I have experience with as a female, is how some of the men I have been in romantic relationships with can be deeply traumatised and would benefit greatly from therapy, but cannot admit (to themselves or anyone else) any form of vulnerability. Their traumas cause them depression, suicidality, breakdowns in relationships because they bottle it up rather than admit they are vulnerable and could do with some help. That's why male suicide is so high. It's heartbreaking.
Maybe men are feeling depressed because society wants them to be “politically correct.” Which suppresses their natural testosterone. -not saying aggressive behavior is wrong or right but merely mood swings similar to what a woman has menstruating or going through menopause. Men and women both need positive outlets to deal with testosterone and hormone levels. Relationships are a commitment. If you learn that your partner is suicidal the best thing you can do is gain trust with that person to let them know their life has worth. People bottle things up not based on masculinity but because they fear that if they open up about trauma or abuse that they may be judged severely to the point of losing trust and friendship. Judgment is the most toxic thing in society now days. So much that we have to try to figure out everyone’s problems indirectly over the internet. People act as if men just acted more feminine the world would be perfect. Fact is men don’t want to be feminine. We’re not wired that way. We don’t normally base decisions on emotion as well as women do. Men are wired with a raging sex drive and a need to show masculine traits to attract a mate. It’s natural in wildlife everywhere.
The men didn't go to therapy because feminism has hijacked the field with the "toxic masculinity" crap. Men go where they are wanted, and not insulted and shamed
Being loud, rude, disrespectful, insensitive is being applied to masculinity... As if a woman acting in a similar way is somehow less toxic... Next we'll be saying things like "You're breathing like a black person" when breathing is a human thing and race has nothing to do with it.
Truly anyone can be toxic. We shouldn't see people as groups and think that an individual woman for example deserves to be outspoken and toxic just because of the history that women most share.
The beginning of this podcast was nice to hear. It reminded me of a time when my friend and I got into a heated conflict and then we laughed and decided to go get tacos together
I wanna almost say that's a more beneficial common "masculine" trait whether it's socially indoctrinated or just part of being pumped full of testosterone as a youth. I remember coming to blows with my best friends as a young man over really dumb arguments, but then after like a day we hugged it out and forgot it while my girlfriend at the time would hold onto a paranoid grudge for years with one of her friends.
In addition to men being taught to push through after a woman initially says no, I would like to also add that women are also taught to resist, even if we do want it, because otherwise we're "easy." Somehow, resisting sexual advances -- even when they are welcome -- is seen as the classy behavior. It's the suppression of female sexuality. We're all perpetuating rape culture with these behaviors. Women need to mean what they say, and men need to respect it when we say it.
you can really hardly blame something women for being responsible for something they are the ultimate victim for. plus women not meaning what they say is so much less of the problem than men not respecting consent. why would you ever think to compare them ?
@@magopal5610 I didn't see it at all as blaming. It makes sense. And is a valid point. Maybe only there is more than one outcome from that scenario is all? Women can suppress their desire but also others could give in when they do not really want. But I definitely took your point to mean we all need to speak our truth and the other person needs to respect it. Which is empowering.
But if a woman is "resisting," even performatively, a man should still respect that and stop pushing. She clearly has mixed feelings about being intimate. Consent should always be enthusiastic.
so while a "flirty" no means yes to one woman, a "flirty" no means no but is uncomfortable to another woman. Course there is still no excuse if a someone says no you should stop and not give into the toxic mind games of someone else. However i can see how this can be confusing from young men gettingg into the dating world where they're being told 2 contradicotry narratives
When I saw that the run time was almost 3 hours I gasped. Its going to help me get through my work day listening to this episode., I absolutely love that Dr Honda is using the word "simp. I use it ironically ALL of the time. Wonderful episode as always : )
ok so this isnt just toxic masculinity or positive masculinity. These are toxic and positive traits basically all genders have. I know we like to say 'as a guy' 'as a female' ok yea. But truly being fair, protective, having good people to be inspired by, being knowledgable being kind and courageous is something everyone should have. Not just men. its not positive Masculinity to just be a simple basically good human being. its positive human qualities and i hope in the future we just stick to seeing each other as just that. Masculinity and Femininity are labels people are comfortable using because that what theyve been told they are, but all it does is pigeon hole groups and assume a grand difference between people. Without vocabulary we'd just look to each other for these good qualities. Conditioning is part of how we were brought up, labels is how we feel comfortable (well not me, i dislike labels), just simple. BE A GOOD HUMAN. BE A GOOD PERSON. PROTECT THOSE AROUND YOU. HAVE MORALS AND VALUES. BE HELPFUL. BE KIND. BE CHIVALROUS. BE COURAGEOUS. BE KIND. This isnt masculine or feminine, its what we do when we come from a place of love and understanding that we are all diverse. I hope we have a future where these labels are gone and we just get to know the person infront of us as a person of emotion, thoughts, values, drives and likes/dislikes. No roles, just human.
"Stereotypes" is a good word for this. The perpetuation of these terms are just so unnecessarily political and alienating. It's (not) surprising that those with particular political views (even psychologists with a lot of empathy) don't understand the harm.
Kirk, this episode was completely fascinating to me but also deeply validating and in a way kind of educational. I'm a trans man who didn't have the opportunity to begin my transition or even really come out publicly until I was 28, and while I felt this facet of my identity my entire life I never got to indulge the feelings that came from it and actively push them away, never allow myself to entertain any ideas about it because it was painful to even think about when I knew I wasn't able to live it. Now in my transition, this is a topic I think about a lot. What masculinity means, what it is at its core, at least to me. Having been raised very much so as a girl and socialized as one well into adulthood, no one ever taught me how to “be a man" and it's some thing I get to completely explorer on my own which I'm finding to be a gift but also a huge source of insecurity. Am I doing it right? Is a thought that crosses my mind frequently. But at the same time, I'm constantly noticing things the men in general and in my life sometimes to that give me the reaction of-I'm not like that. But the positive examples of masculinity I have are all very much the same as what you both have listed here, and in some not insignificant way, it does feel good to know that the kind of man, and person, that I strive to be, is centered around traits that are wholesome an admirable, and not driven by my insecurities or social pressures. By the way, you are both Great positive examples masculinity I definitely do look up to. One reason among many I became such a big fan of this channel. Thank you for this episode!
On Netflix I’ve been watching Terrace House. And I notice both the women and men on the show cry equally and it seems accepted. Wonder if there could be an analysis or discussion on that show. Love your discussions as usual and always learn so much! Thank you for this !
The issue seems to stem from a general hyperindividualism where the ego is important, and a preoccupation with sex where day to day decisions could threaten other people's perceptions on whether someone is straight or not. Also it's important to differentiate self sufficiency and non emotion, as well as seperate emotion expression in public (imo isn't something positive but attention seeking and unhelpful), and private (more appropriate because friends and family are better equipped to deal with inner emotions).
An informative and enlightening inside look on toxic masculinity. It brought to mind many positive examples but also a few at the opposite end of the spectrum such as Derek Chauvin, Marc Lepine, Alec Minassian and Col. Russell Williams. Thanks for another interesting in depth deep dive on this important topic!
Favorite Time Stamps Part 2 20:18 list of negative traits: 20:31 1. Hyper aggression 33:18 2. you throw like a girl 👧🏼 37:00 3. Signaling to the guys that you’re a REAL MAN 37:45 4. Pushing the sexual boundaries with girls 39:33 5. Mansplaining 45:25 6. Workplace sexual harassment
I think Breaking Bad revolves around masculinity / toxic masculinity. In the first episode we see that Walt lacks many masculine traits; he’s quiet and reserved, unassertive, submissive, and lacks power in his life. On the other hand, Hank is loud and opinionated, assertive and authoritative and has a powerful job. However, Hank has some toxic masculine traits such as shaming others that he views as weak or feminine, and he is terrible at talking about his emotions and never wants to appear vulnerable. Walt feels the shame put on him from society, and from the resulting low self esteem he begins to change. As the show progresses Walt picks up more and more masculine traits, some positive, some toxic. He begins with pathological independence. He becomes more assertive and outspoken. He experiments with being dominant, intimidating and aggressive, and eventually becomes intoxicated (no pun intended) by his new found power from these traits. If he had just gained the positive traits and not the negative ones, he could have made for a much better life for himself and his family (spoilers: which we get a brief glimpse of before Hank discovers Leaves of Grass).
Bro it sounds more like intoxicating masculinity when u put it like that. WTF wants to be Walt before hopping on that ride? Not that I'd want to be him on it either.
Earlier this year , I was in a situation that was made more comfortable to deal with due to a bystander taking action in what I considered to be a display of toxic masculinity . I was working on the street in a poverty stricken community and this man approached me , I think he was sincerely well intentioned but under the influence of a substance , I think he desired to share comradary with me but he presented in a way that made me very uncomfortable , I thought I was possibly in danger , I even told the guy that he is making me uncomfortable and asked why he had his hands in his pocket and he said something along the lines of : if I wanted to kill you , you would already be dead , you would be nothing , you would be done , in a coffin, dead . It was weird because I didn't feel threatened because his demeanor was so relaxed and calm , he had this harmless energy but was just too close to me and speaking in an odd way and clearly on a substance . People from the community started coming outside and this one guy about my age took control and was extremely aggressive with the guy threatening violence, they formed a circle around him and I thought he was going to get torn apart but he ended up getting in his car and driving off . The most aggressive guy and I interacted afterwards and I told him I appreciated his masculinity because I was pretty much passive , he was a nice guy and his posturing and aggression felt needed honestly .
This is one of the best conversations on the topic of toxic masculinity I've heard. Living in North Africa for part of the year, I came to witness first-hand the ugly effects this outdated mentality has on individuals (male and female alike) and society as a whole when it's left unchecked. These conversations need to happen and change is long overdue.
@@Karakhmul For instance, one behaviour of toxic femininity is the tendency women have of not saying what they really mean and being very indirect. I think that such toxic femininity is a sort of defense mechanism that has become internalized by women to deal with how aggresive and intimidating men can be due to toxic masculinity.
@@Karakhmul Masc- and fem- are used to distinguish between behaviours that men are socially pressured to carry out and behaviours that women are socially pressured to carry out.
My favorite time stamps part 3: 1:12:58 positive masculine traits: being fair, being protective 1:23:12 Honest Role Models On Screen: Mr Rodgers, Jimmy Stewart in It’s a Wonderful Life 1:26:20 Strength is a positive 1:30:47 Kindness to Women. I think it’s odd that Berto chooses the word kindness rather than RESPECT. 1:41:06 being knowledgeable and helpful 1:46:32 being Courageous; killing spiders 🕷 Humor
I am so happy you guys decided to talk about this hot subject …..as women are talking about the same things but women get to be “ silenced and discredited “ talking about the same things ….sex is going to be less and less because of all you talked about in this episode ……🔥🔥👏
it's so bizarre -- this prejudice (masculine = primitive , modernity = cooperative) forces them into these random arguments and observations. when they read accounts of our time by future historians they will be astounded
Fav time stamps Part 5/5 2:22:06 positive masculinity- being confident in who you are; not letting others emasculate you During the last 30 minutes, they discuss specific examples from TV and movies of Positive Masculinity and Toxic Masculinity. I don’t care about this section.
At around 17:30 of this video. Doesn't the left do that with criminals? Why Criminals Choose California | Patricia Wenskunas video around 13:00 into video
Guess what? The Centre for Male Psychology in the UK honors and supports men, while you insult men with feminist agitprop. The difference between night and day.
My favorite Time Stamps Part ONE 3:53 Dr H: defining Toxicity Masculinity and Norms 5:25 Feminism aversion 9:06 what’s toxic M is not 11:23 sifting through traits 14:18 mens groups’ spin on the movement against TM 17:40 7/11 armed robbery example 🔫
@@runlolarun8957 I agree with everything that was said and appreciated the interweaving of personal anecdotes into the narrative. The assertion, however, that a certain type of aggression is innate and supported by the historical record (the implication of U’s statements) is a common trope I felt needed a bit of challenging
@@runlolarun8957 Agreed, it's extremely poor taste to listen to such a great podcast, but only comment about something that minorly annoyed you. There are real people hosting this podcast. Roberto should maybe consider how he'd feel if he poured his heart and soul into something, and people only responded with subjective nitpicking.
@@robertomonroe6338 OK, I hear it was a point of disagreement for you. Looking back throughout history it does seem like there are biological differences and different cultural expectations that have shaped men's and women's actions. We are more in common than not I believe but still acknowledging differences is healthy and truthful, in my opinion. It's ok to disagree but it did seem pretty petty pointing out only that...at least that is how I read it. I appreciate you going further into what your thinking was when commenting. It helped me see where you were coming from even if I might disagree.
What an amazing strawman you two built. The criticisms of modern feminism and the concept of "toxic masculinity" is much more nuanced. I think you need to get a guest on with other political views for you to understand it, since your political views heavily biased the first ~20mins of this and I've already switched off.
I get where you're coming from, I think. They definitely used extreme examples of toxic masculinity when it can be more subtle, and extreme examples of criticisms of modern feminism.
I’m only 45 minutes in but haven’t heard anything demonizing yet… You sure you’re really listening charitably & trying to understand without any sort of defensiveness or bias?
I really enjoyed this. My 2 cents that I experienced in my own house was my mother had me washing my own clothes and ironing my dad's shirts and doing dishes and help with cooking meals. I loved helping but as my younger brother came to the age of helping he was excused from it. I brought it up with my mother and she said well he wouldnt do a good job of it and then she felt she would have to redo or do these things right. I really felt like (and I was like 12) that she was raising me to be subservient to a man and my brother being dependent on a woman. Today if my brother didnt have a wife to do these things for him my mother still would but I'm expected to help my mother. I really resented this and thought my mom really fell short on parenting because of it. Sad part is I enjoyed helping my mom but I hated that as a female tyrannosaurus this was my "role" because of it.
Oh for sure. My sister dealt with a constant and regular distrust and discipline that I never had. I remember when we were in middle-school and high school my father had a strict policy against us having the other sex over at the house unless he was present. Well, I as the guy got away constantly with having girls over and my sister had to hide her boyfriend like he was a dirty secret. My dad caught me with my girlfriend over and in my room for days on end and I barely got a slap on the wrist but when he caught my sister sneaking her boyfriend over for just a few hours he blew his lid and nearly beat this teenager's ass and tried to ground her for a month.
That was a great response, but I'm wondering if "female tyrannosaurus" was a typo? Or is it an intriguing analogy unfamiliar to me?
aww berto is such a sweetheart. i appreciate and just love listening to his viewpoints, its really refreshing and wish him the bestest health
One of the most notable effects of toxic masculinity that I have experience with as a female, is how some of the men I have been in romantic relationships with can be deeply traumatised and would benefit greatly from therapy, but cannot admit (to themselves or anyone else) any form of vulnerability. Their traumas cause them depression, suicidality, breakdowns in relationships because they bottle it up rather than admit they are vulnerable and could do with some help. That's why male suicide is so high. It's heartbreaking.
Maybe men are feeling depressed because society wants them to be “politically correct.” Which suppresses their natural testosterone. -not saying aggressive behavior is wrong or right but merely mood swings similar to what a woman has menstruating or going through menopause. Men and women both need positive outlets to deal with testosterone and hormone levels. Relationships are a commitment. If you learn that your partner is suicidal the best thing you can do is gain trust with that person to let them know their life has worth. People bottle things up not based on masculinity but because they fear that if they open up about trauma or abuse that they may be judged severely to the point of losing trust and friendship. Judgment is the most toxic thing in society now days. So much that we have to try to figure out everyone’s problems indirectly over the internet. People act as if men just acted more feminine the world would be perfect. Fact is men don’t want to be feminine. We’re not wired that way. We don’t normally base decisions on emotion as well as women do. Men are wired with a raging sex drive and a need to show masculine traits to attract a mate. It’s natural in wildlife everywhere.
The men didn't go to therapy because feminism has hijacked the field with the "toxic masculinity" crap. Men go where they are wanted, and not insulted and shamed
I'm a straight white male, and if I kept myself in the man box, denying my humanity, I'd probably have killed myself.
Cuz when we show vulnerability, women stop showing us their private patts.
Being loud, rude, disrespectful, insensitive is being applied to masculinity... As if a woman acting in a similar way is somehow less toxic...
Next we'll be saying things like "You're breathing like a black person" when breathing is a human thing and race has nothing to do with it.
Truly anyone can be toxic. We shouldn't see people as groups and think that an individual woman for example deserves to be outspoken and toxic just because of the history that women most share.
@@krunkle5136 we shouldnt see people as groups. Thats basically the smartest thing ive heard all year. i love it and agree with it.
no i agree, women doing the same stuff IS TOXIC.
Aw I love Kirk and Berto’s relationship. So sweet 💛 and an example of straight men being mature and self-assured
What a great comment!
The beginning of this podcast was nice to hear. It reminded me of a time when my friend and I got into a heated conflict and then we laughed and decided to go get tacos together
I wanna almost say that's a more beneficial common "masculine" trait whether it's socially indoctrinated or just part of being pumped full of testosterone as a youth. I remember coming to blows with my best friends as a young man over really dumb arguments, but then after like a day we hugged it out and forgot it while my girlfriend at the time would hold onto a paranoid grudge for years with one of her friends.
In addition to men being taught to push through after a woman initially says no, I would like to also add that women are also taught to resist, even if we do want it, because otherwise we're "easy." Somehow, resisting sexual advances -- even when they are welcome -- is seen as the classy behavior. It's the suppression of female sexuality. We're all perpetuating rape culture with these behaviors. Women need to mean what they say, and men need to respect it when we say it.
you can really hardly blame something women for being responsible for something they are the ultimate victim for. plus women not meaning what they say is so much less of the problem than men not respecting consent. why would you ever think to compare them ?
@@mochees lmao, how in the world do you interpret my comment as BLAMING? you are ridiculous.
@@magopal5610 I didn't see it at all as blaming. It makes sense. And is a valid point. Maybe only there is more than one outcome from that scenario is all? Women can suppress their desire but also others could give in when they do not really want. But I definitely took your point to mean we all need to speak our truth and the other person needs to respect it. Which is empowering.
But if a woman is "resisting," even performatively, a man should still respect that and stop pushing. She clearly has mixed feelings about being intimate. Consent should always be enthusiastic.
so while a "flirty" no means yes to one woman, a "flirty" no means no but is uncomfortable to another woman. Course there is still no excuse if a someone says no you should stop and not give into the toxic mind games of someone else. However i can see how this can be confusing from young men gettingg into the dating world where they're being told 2 contradicotry narratives
When I saw that the run time was almost 3 hours I gasped. Its going to help me get through my work day listening to this episode., I absolutely love that Dr Honda is using the word "simp. I use it ironically ALL of the time. Wonderful episode as always : )
great Kirk/Humberto back and forth about culture... These episodes are the reason I still follow the podcast
ok so this isnt just toxic masculinity or positive masculinity. These are toxic and positive traits basically all genders have.
I know we like to say 'as a guy' 'as a female' ok yea.
But truly being fair, protective, having good people to be inspired by, being knowledgable being kind and courageous is something everyone should have. Not just men.
its not positive Masculinity to just be a simple basically good human being.
its positive human qualities and i hope in the future we just stick to seeing each other as just that.
Masculinity and Femininity are labels people are comfortable using because that what theyve been told they are, but all it does is pigeon hole groups and assume a grand difference between people. Without vocabulary we'd just look to each other for these good qualities. Conditioning is part of how we were brought up, labels is how we feel comfortable (well not me, i dislike labels), just simple. BE A GOOD HUMAN. BE A GOOD PERSON. PROTECT THOSE AROUND YOU. HAVE MORALS AND VALUES. BE HELPFUL. BE KIND. BE CHIVALROUS. BE COURAGEOUS. BE KIND.
This isnt masculine or feminine, its what we do when we come from a place of love and understanding that we are all diverse. I hope we have a future where these labels are gone and we just get to know the person infront of us as a person of emotion, thoughts, values, drives and likes/dislikes. No roles, just human.
I want to make the sequel to this podcast called “Toxic Maternity” ~ The stereotypes of raging pregnant women.
"Stereotypes" is a good word for this. The perpetuation of these terms are just so unnecessarily political and alienating. It's (not) surprising that those with particular political views (even psychologists with a lot of empathy) don't understand the harm.
Kirk, this episode was completely fascinating to me but also deeply validating and in a way kind of educational. I'm a trans man who didn't have the opportunity to begin my transition or even really come out publicly until I was 28, and while I felt this facet of my identity my entire life I never got to indulge the feelings that came from it and actively push them away, never allow myself to entertain any ideas about it because it was painful to even think about when I knew I wasn't able to live it. Now in my transition, this is a topic I think about a lot. What masculinity means, what it is at its core, at least to me. Having been raised very much so as a girl and socialized as one well into adulthood, no one ever taught me how to “be a man" and it's some thing I get to completely explorer on my own which I'm finding to be a gift but also a huge source of insecurity. Am I doing it right? Is a thought that crosses my mind frequently. But at the same time, I'm constantly noticing things the men in general and in my life sometimes to that give me the reaction of-I'm not like that. But the positive examples of masculinity I have are all very much the same as what you both have listed here, and in some not insignificant way, it does feel good to know that the kind of man, and person, that I strive to be, is centered around traits that are wholesome an admirable, and not driven by my insecurities or social pressures. By the way, you are both Great positive examples masculinity I definitely do look up to. One reason among many I became such a big fan of this channel. Thank you for this episode!
❤
On Netflix I’ve been watching Terrace House. And I notice both the women and men on the show cry equally and it seems accepted. Wonder if there could be an analysis or discussion on that show. Love your discussions as usual and always learn so much! Thank you for this !
The issue seems to stem from a general hyperindividualism where the ego is important, and a preoccupation with sex where day to day decisions could threaten other people's perceptions on whether someone is straight or not.
Also it's important to differentiate self sufficiency and non emotion, as well as seperate emotion expression in public (imo isn't something positive but attention seeking and unhelpful), and private (more appropriate because friends and family are better equipped to deal with inner emotions).
An informative and enlightening inside look on toxic masculinity. It brought to mind many positive examples but also a few at the opposite end of the spectrum such as Derek Chauvin, Marc Lepine, Alec Minassian and Col. Russell Williams. Thanks for another interesting in depth deep dive on this important topic!
15:14 damn, Berto! Such a concise point.
I love this episode! I think the reframing of masculinity is important. And I love your list.of positive masculine role models. I'd love to see more.
Favorite Time Stamps Part 2
20:18 list of negative traits:
20:31 1. Hyper aggression
33:18 2. you throw like a girl 👧🏼
37:00 3. Signaling to the guys that you’re a REAL MAN
37:45 4. Pushing the sexual boundaries with girls
39:33 5. Mansplaining
45:25 6. Workplace sexual harassment
I think Breaking Bad revolves around masculinity / toxic masculinity. In the first episode we see that Walt lacks many masculine traits; he’s quiet and reserved, unassertive, submissive, and lacks power in his life. On the other hand, Hank is loud and opinionated, assertive and authoritative and has a powerful job. However, Hank has some toxic masculine traits such as shaming others that he views as weak or feminine, and he is terrible at talking about his emotions and never wants to appear vulnerable.
Walt feels the shame put on him from society, and from the resulting low self esteem he begins to change. As the show progresses Walt picks up more and more masculine traits, some positive, some toxic. He begins with pathological independence. He becomes more assertive and outspoken. He experiments with being dominant, intimidating and aggressive, and eventually becomes intoxicated (no pun intended) by his new found power from these traits.
If he had just gained the positive traits and not the negative ones, he could have made for a much better life for himself and his family (spoilers: which we get a brief glimpse of before Hank discovers Leaves of Grass).
Bro it sounds more like intoxicating masculinity when u put it like that. WTF wants to be Walt before hopping on that ride? Not that I'd want to be him on it either.
What a long podcast! 🥵 I love it! 😃
Earlier this year , I was in a situation that was made more comfortable to deal with due to a bystander taking action in what I considered to be a display of toxic masculinity . I was working on the street in a poverty stricken community and this man approached me , I think he was sincerely well intentioned but under the influence of a substance , I think he desired to share comradary with me but he presented in a way that made me very uncomfortable , I thought I was possibly in danger , I even told the guy that he is making me uncomfortable and asked why he had his hands in his pocket and he said something along the lines of : if I wanted to kill you , you would already be dead , you would be nothing , you would be done , in a coffin, dead . It was weird because I didn't feel threatened because his demeanor was so relaxed and calm , he had this harmless energy but was just too close to me and speaking in an odd way and clearly on a substance .
People from the community started coming outside and this one guy about my age took control and was extremely aggressive with the guy threatening violence, they formed a circle around him and I thought he was going to get torn apart but he ended up getting in his car and driving off .
The most aggressive guy and I interacted afterwards and I told him I appreciated his masculinity because I was pretty much passive , he was a nice guy and his posturing and aggression felt needed honestly .
This is one of the best conversations on the topic of toxic masculinity I've heard. Living in North Africa for part of the year, I came to witness first-hand the ugly effects this outdated mentality has on individuals (male and female alike) and society as a whole when it's left unchecked. These conversations need to happen and change is long overdue.
Is toxic feminity a thing?
I bet
definitely
Yes, although it kind of is a product of toxic masculinity.
@@Karakhmul For instance, one behaviour of toxic femininity is the tendency women have of not saying what they really mean and being very indirect. I think that such toxic femininity is a sort of defense mechanism that has become internalized by women to deal with how aggresive and intimidating men can be due to toxic masculinity.
@@Karakhmul Masc- and fem- are used to distinguish between behaviours that men are socially pressured to carry out and behaviours that women are socially pressured to carry out.
My favorite time stamps part 3:
1:12:58 positive masculine traits: being fair, being protective
1:23:12 Honest Role Models On Screen: Mr Rodgers, Jimmy Stewart in It’s a Wonderful Life
1:26:20 Strength is a positive
1:30:47 Kindness to Women. I think it’s odd that Berto chooses the word kindness rather than RESPECT.
1:41:06 being knowledgeable and helpful
1:46:32 being Courageous; killing spiders 🕷
Humor
I am so happy you guys decided to talk about this hot subject …..as women are talking about the same things but women get to be “ silenced and discredited “ talking about the same things ….sex is going to be less and less because of all you talked about in this episode ……🔥🔥👏
THANK YOU FOR THIS TOPIC THANK YOU
Fathers should help their kids to strengthen their gender identity and defend them from the outside weirdos trying to influence them.
Thank you for this topic! Oh and and beginning 🥺❤️
the first two minutes were quite something, cant wait to hear everything now.
it's so bizarre -- this prejudice (masculine = primitive , modernity = cooperative) forces them into these random arguments and observations. when they read accounts of our time by future historians they will be astounded
Fav time stamps Part 5/5
2:22:06 positive masculinity- being confident in who you are; not letting others emasculate you
During the last 30 minutes, they discuss specific examples from TV and movies of Positive Masculinity and Toxic Masculinity. I don’t care about this section.
Charm is my favorite male characteristic.
Great work,this is a subject that hasn't been addressed as it should be.
I looove the beginning...
At around 17:30 of this video. Doesn't the left do that with criminals?
Why Criminals Choose California | Patricia Wenskunas video around 13:00 into video
Guess what? The Centre for Male Psychology in the UK honors and supports men, while you insult men with feminist agitprop. The difference between night and day.
🔥 love you guys
14:20 Well, I do like a good sub.
My favorite Time Stamps Part ONE
3:53 Dr H: defining Toxicity Masculinity and Norms
5:25 Feminism aversion
9:06 what’s toxic M is not
11:23 sifting through traits
14:18 mens groups’ spin on the movement against TM
17:40 7/11 armed robbery example 🔫
Here Is What I Actually Think Of Andrew Tate - Ben Shapiro video is good enough for me
The answer is better behavior by both men and women
Wooooow
Berto asking for subs sounds like Joe Rogan.
lol!
🤮🤮🤮🤮
I enjoyed this but Umberto’s comic book understanding of human history is a bit grating.
Of all that couple hours worth of podcast this seriously was the only thought you wanted to make a point on?
@@runlolarun8957 I agree with everything that was said and appreciated the interweaving of personal anecdotes into the narrative. The assertion, however, that a certain type of aggression is innate and supported by the historical record (the implication of U’s statements) is a common trope I felt needed a bit of challenging
@@runlolarun8957 Agreed, it's extremely poor taste to listen to such a great podcast, but only comment about something that minorly annoyed you. There are real people hosting this podcast. Roberto should maybe consider how he'd feel if he poured his heart and soul into something, and people only responded with subjective nitpicking.
@@robertomonroe6338 OK, I hear it was a point of disagreement for you. Looking back throughout history it does seem like there are biological differences and different cultural expectations that have shaped men's and women's actions. We are more in common than not I believe but still acknowledging differences is healthy and truthful, in my opinion. It's ok to disagree but it did seem pretty petty pointing out only that...at least that is how I read it. I appreciate you going further into what your thinking was when commenting. It helped me see where you were coming from even if I might disagree.
What an amazing strawman you two built. The criticisms of modern feminism and the concept of "toxic masculinity" is much more nuanced. I think you need to get a guest on with other political views for you to understand it, since your political views heavily biased the first ~20mins of this and I've already switched off.
Seethe, toxic male!
@@magopal5610 Whatever makes you feel like a superior, mature, and kind person.
This is simply meant to be a podcast with his friend. Definitely not a formal debate... Just a podcast.
@@tomburns5231 Buddy, you gave up on maturity with your original comment.
I get where you're coming from, I think. They definitely used extreme examples of toxic masculinity when it can be more subtle, and extreme examples of criticisms of modern feminism.
Really bad faith, really demonizing take here. I'm disappointed by the lack of depth
I’m only 45 minutes in but haven’t heard anything demonizing yet… You sure you’re really listening charitably & trying to understand without any sort of defensiveness or bias?
@@mistym0rning Are you sure you're not listening with the opposite bias? Wow.