Interview with a Pedophile
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- Dr Kirk Honda interviews “Jay” regarding the movement to recognize that not all pedophiles abuse children, AKA Non-Offending Minor Attracted Person (NOMAP).
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Trigger Warning: This episode may include topics such as assault, trauma, and discrimination. If necessary, listeners are encouraged to refrain from listening and care for their safety and well-being.
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Interview starts approx 20:00 min in
Feel free to skip ahead, but please, please be careful before listening to this interview. It could be highly triggering for anyone.
The start does touch on some very important points regarding content, triggers, risks, and self care, a little of the normal waffling but worth the listen.
@@thisiscait yes I absolutely agree, and I certainly listened to the beginning. I had seen a few comments asking about it so decided to time stamp where it started.
Thanks
was looking for this comment.
I think it would be helpful for some of you to understand that when Dr. Honda says we need to be careful about stigmatizing he does not mean we need to think that being attracted to kids is okay - he is essentially saying we need to make it easier for these people to come forward to seek help so that they do not touch kids. When we harp on about how people like this shouldn’t be alive, etc., we are almost ensuring that they never get help and offend. We need to at least compartmentalize our disgust if we want to stop these things from happening to children. He’s not advocating for groomers or whatever political bs you’re about to spew. Sometimes solving problems takes you putting your feelings to the back for a moment and considering the realities of the world.
People that think shaming these people solves anything are very naive. Clearly Dr Honda deals with these types of people in his work and knows better than we do about their thought process.
Agreed. There's no way to stop the cycle of abuse if we don't understand it fully.
The amount people in the comments who simply refuse to understand this 🙈 we have to start somewhere. Honestly I always thought that pedophilia was synonymous with sadism&lack of empathy (because else how could you want to do that to a child) so I get where they coming from but I'm learning because this is kind of a fascinating topic when you strip it down
@tiffanyjonesart what?
Yeah..non offenders need help and to heal if they have trauma, many times this attraction comes from trauma and they shouldn't be treated as repulsive human being if they haven't done anything
Super interesting to hear how he was attracted to kids his own age and that attraction just didn’t change as he got older. He also looks back at his childhood sexual experiences with other kids as mutual and good, but describes any adults relationships as manipulative, confusing, gross, etc.
And also either doesn’t want to, or conveniently wants to ignore, the possible harm he caused other children and whether his actions were actually mutual or not.
That’s what I’ve always wondered. There’s like different types of pedos and I think we all think of the malevolent ones that want to destroy a child and it is sad listening to this.
That to me says that he was sexually abused by someone older. Probably. Think about it. He thinks with kids it's good, pleasant. With adults it's scary, bad.
@@koobie83 he was a child himself acting out his own abuse with kids his age. To make him out to be an abuser, or in any way responsible for those encounters, is honestly ignorant.
Interesting that he describes his encounters and interactions with adults in such a disgusted way, like how a victim would describe their interactions with a predator.
A lot of child sex offenders had issues with adults in their childhoods which made them see adults as threatening. A part of them never grows up because of that despise for adults, which often plays into their fascination with children.
We do NOT need to start calling these people "minor attracted persons." This new label is a way for those types to weasel their way in to acceptance. Absolutely not.
fully agreed
Fair enough, I mean the definition of pedophile is already just having sexual feeling towards children. But I do think using the term non offending pedophile more would be good because there is a big difference between the two.
I was sexually abused at the age of 6 by a relative and the fact I felt safe when pressing PLAY is the biggest compliment to dr Honda. I trust that he would conduct the conversation with respect to the abuser and listeners who went through hell. Big kudos to dr Kirk. Ps. For me the worst part was the lack of the family support. Starting from parents who left me and my sister with a person who they knew was a pedophile. Ending with other relatives who willingly live with the abuser with 2 little girls (claiming that it’s impossible that the grandpa would harm them 🤯). I cut all ties as it was too painful for me to get criticized that it took me so long to come forward, or listening that I was a “weak” child. My mother even claimed that she might lose their job because of ME - Because I wanted to report the pedo. It’s crazy how you think modest family-oriented catholic family would behave in a situation like this 😢
My mom and some of my 2nd cousins suffered the same... It really effected her (and them all). And still effects her to this day. It effected her parenting of me and brother too. And her relationships (in a lot of ways). It trickled down and affected us indirectly. Whenever my mom spoke about her abuse in front of us as kids, I felt like was being abused to, because children imagine it happening to them when it is being talked about. Especially when it is someone close talking about it- like one's mother. She did it so we would be aware an not go around that person or never go anywhere alone with that person. It worked, but it did have some other affects too for sure. Our family was aware, but they tried to avoid speaking about it, or acknowledging it. Family gatherings were torture, and my mom started to refuse to go since they kept inviting the offenders. He and his brother suffered no consequences other than causing awkward feelings at family gatherings and mothers paranoid and watching their little girls like hawks the entire time. (Of course we, the children, felt and sensed that tension too. It was confusing to us and made us afraid.)
I hope you will report him. Please if you haven’t already considered it, please make an anonymous report to social services that the two children are in a home with a man who abused you.
I'm so sorry that your family members betrayed you and your sister. Hope you're in place now apart from them.
So sorry that happened to you. I do want to point out that we should be careful when making statements like “modest family, Catholic oriented” as if these families are immune from abuse and family drama. As most of us are aware, the Catholic Church hid abuse with minors for years. So there’s not one particular group that abuse can happen to. It happens to anyone, anywhere.
Praying for your recovery and peace.
You deserve a better family. I’m so sorry you went through this. None of my sisters believed me when my cousin (26 at the time) was molesting me at age 11.
As someone who is a survivor of extensive CSA it's really difficult to have empathy and compassion for these sorts of people but that being said I do respect him for choosing to do the right thing. That path would be a very lonely and isolating one, it would take a lot of empathy and willpower to live a life like that. I'm sorry to the interviewee for the things he has to endure to ensure the protection of children. Also a huge thank you to him for speaking up about it and to you Dr. Honda for shedding light on this "infliction" if compassion is the way to prevent people from offending than compassion is what we should all be giving.
Great of you to write this, Even though you went through such a horrible thing you are so strong to write this. And It also shows how long you have gone in your healing. Am i right? If you have healed as much as I feel you have done, then I am really happy for you. Because you deserve healing, you really really do. But I am sorry for what you have went through.
Agree completely! I picture how that would feel, and it would have to be such an incredibly lonely life. Props to him for going against his instincts/natural tendencies, because he knew it was wrong. I hope he continues to get the help he needs.
You don't need to have empathy for him! Don't feel pressured to. It's ok if you just rationally say yes it is good that he stays on the right track, you don't have to feel sorry for him!
I have so, so much admiration for you, this comment just says so many good things about your character.
I’m glad we have a >you< walking through this world
I guess this is where I stand too. I am terrified of these people but if they can get help then that’s great. But it’s kinda like applauding a fish for swimming. Like congrats, you’re not harming kids…
Would love for this to become a series, interviewing people who experience mental health symptoms that are seen as taboo or flat out morally reprehensible. It’s fascinating and the stigmas around these people prevent them from speaking about it.
That therapist who specializes with MAPS is seriously doing the world a favor.
At this point, I'm 1 hour and 22 minutes into the interview and I have not been feeling triggered despite being a survivor of CSA, and rather, feel more pain and sadness for Jay than any other emotion. Came here to say that because I suddenly just feel like I'm weird for not feeling triggered. Maybe I've just shut my mind/emotion off that, and don't feel like it reminds me of my own experience? I don't know. Don't mind me. I'm just shouting into the void here.
I'm having similar reactions.
I’ve heard your shouts into the void!
And I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through 💜
I think that’s a worthy question to ask, the “am I actually not triggered or have I shut myself from those feelings?”
It’s a tough question and one I ask myself daily in various contexts. It’s a tough question to answer, it’s taken me a lot of practice to be able to answer it even moderately well.
I commend your for your efforts 🙂
I was R*p*'d at 14 and it's done a number on me. I still struggle with my trauma and at the same time I also feel empathy/ compassion for some people who struggle with the condition/ situation mentioned in this interview. It's a mind**** to be able to feel both ways. I find it really conflicting.
i'm in the same position as you. maybe it's because i've done a lot of healing, i was ready to hear the other side. in a way, i feel forgiveness, even though this guy and the person who hurt me are entirely separate people. his self awareness and desire to refrain from doing harm may seem like the bare minimum to us, but for him, it's more work than many of us could have realized.
@@authenticuser4177 Thank you! I think that you hit the nail on the head - I was feeling like I was weird because it isn't something I see a lot of people doing. I'm glad you do feel the same too - it's very validating to hear.
i'm not sure I believe him when he says it wasn't sexual feelings towards his niece
I have such mad respect for you that you posted this, Dr. Honda.
I was abused as a kid and have been saying this for YEARS!! People have always looked at me like I was crazy.
Feeling a strange combination of empathy for Jay and discomfort at the apathy Dr. Honda pointed out. In this interview, you get a real sense that his ability to establish boundaries and meaningful emotional intimacy are both stunted. I imagine it is very tough for him to make the connections for which he yearns. That being said... I don't trust this man. I was satisfied to know his brother has chosen to distance from him to protect his daughter as some parents do far less with traumatic results. Notably, Jay's apathy toward his own childhood sexual exploitation, his comments on child tiktok content, his perspective on sex offender registries, and his quick recall of offender recidivism shows he holds a cherry picked moral/ethical perspective on his condition. I wouldn't leave a child alone with this man, despite the empathy I have for his story. An interesting interview.
I agree. This guy sounds so nonchalant. I haven’t finished but this will be interesting to hear.
Agree. I feel sorry for the unenviable position he is in and I wish I could wace a wand and take it away. That said the relationship with the niece was troubling considering an emotion connection ties into the minor attraction that he feels. I’m glad his brother cut ties before it went further. Wanting to see the child all of the time, etc. it’s clear there are warning signs coming up there. She can be in your life again when she is no longer at risk.
Honestly- separating J from his niece is a solid call by the parents just for the sake of the parents anxiety y’know?
Because even if he never crossed a boundary with her and never came close, the stress and anxiety and tension that her parents might feel could bleed onto her.
It still might be frankly- especially with questioning where her favorite uncle disappeared to…
God this story sucks.
So fucking sad man…
I could not agree more. his comment on recidivism is familiar. a pedophile apologist I know probably read the same article.
I agree totally.
This man's opinion on the SO register made me shiver. I do have empathy for people who have these feelings/desires birthed from trauma and have made the effort to never harm children. I do feel there should be a confidential clinic they can visit to receive therapy and treatment, to better themselves and to keep children safe. But the moment they've acted on it, my empathy runs dry. They have made the decision to harm innocent children (sometimes to the point where it is beyond repair for the victim). They don't deserve the protection and empathy; they're monsters who are no longer people in my eyes. Yes, people should have access to data about where people who are a danger to their children and loved ones lurk so they can keep the children safe. Life must be so hard for this man, this sounded like a hard interview, and I truly hope he continues seeking the help he needs. But the fact that he feels comfortable with protecting those who have taken the steps to hurt children and have offended, makes me skin crawl. It will never sit right with me and changes the whole tone of the interview. If he was as contentious as he seems to push, he would agree that parents deserve to know where predators are.
@@iamjay6112 There is no such thing as unjustly thrown away and persecuted by society when one has made the CHOICE and action to proposition and harm a child in any way. The actions may be different, but someone been proposition online can still experience the life altering trauma as someone who has the physical experience as being hurt by a pedophile. The data of re-offending could be low because after being 'punished' they become more manipulative, cunning and better at not being caught, the data isn't a reliable example.
The point is, you are in favour of protecting those who have made the choice to offend and that is wrong.
@@iamjay6112 And I'm very happy that you are on that side and making an effort to not abuse. And I do genuinely hope from the bottom of my heart that you find peace some day.
But preventing abuse is a wide spectrum, some do need therapy and someone to confide in to help them deal with their mental health and manage the desires. But others do not care about managing their desires, they even enjoy the hurt. It is better for everyone that they are locked away from society forever. They don't deserve protection or respect and I'm not sorry about feeling that way.
You may get a ton of requests to see you as a therapist. Because these people are almost certainly scared & ashamed for anyone to know about their attraction. So knowing there’s a therapist that doesn’t automatically hate them would probably be so rare. Reaching out for help must be even harder than it is for many or most people.
There’s no shame in getting help.
A difficult listen but an important topic to be brought to light. I worked as a sex offender registry coordinator as a small young female. I left that job due to verbal harassment (from coworkers & sex offenders). In my time working that job I learned a lot, I read the cases, I read their paperwork, I read their petitons to come off the registry. A very very small percent of offenders made an “honest mistake” (for example: one offender we had was 18yrs old, and was dating a 16 yo girl. Parents knew and gave their blessing. However when the 18 yo broke up with the 16yo girl, the parents immediately filed a report) he was on the registry for many years before being able to petition (and this was back many years ago, not sure how his case would have worked out if it happened today). However, the large amount of geniune offenders are not rehabilitated and don’t care to be, they like what they do and push the boundaries to be able to do what they want without being caught. They are usually cold and manipulative denying their crimes and trying to convince everyone they are a good person. That aside, I think registered offenders need to be held on a “tighter leash” so to speak and those who aren’t registered ought to seek professional help urgently to walk through their issues.
Just to add to my last point: It’s important to discuss topics like this and encourage and normalize those dealing with this issue to get help. I think a lot of pedophiles & sex offenders are so against rehabilitation because they don’t want to willingly expose that part of them. I think there’s an element of denial in stuff like this & that denial has to be washed away in order for someone to want to seek help. Most would rather just deny it and spend their time convincing others they are good people or justifying what they have done.
@@julianajordon5520 I could here the denying and justifying in this interview. Loud and clear. I do have compassion for offenders like Jay (and he is an offender - emotional abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse). But compassion and toleration of denial and justification are 2 different things.
@@joellenklemek138 I completely agree. There is a huge line there. I do have compassion, however in no way do I tolerate anyone who justifies abuse or just flat out denies it. For example, when I worked with sex offenders HEARING them deny their crimes would make me so angry because it happened. There is a report, witnesses, it went to court, they went to jail. I just think it is important that the door remain open for offenders/non offenders- but have these “tendencies” to seek help to become rehabilitated through counseling.
I definitely agree. I encourage people to listen to the podcast hunting warhead. Many child abusers are very cunning and duplicitous but on the surface seem very normal. Absolutely chilling.
My thoughts exactly. Like are people forgetting that those wanting to sexually abuse children (even just thinking about it) are inherently SADISTIC.
I want to know how they even imagine the "encounter" in their heads. All I'm seeing is arousal to inflicting pain on a child.
I've always been curious, how are people who suffer from necrophilia treated? It is an illness like pedophilia but a different kind of taboo that's hard to seek help for
I had to click off when he started talking about his niece. The way he talks about her and talks about it feeling good that she depended on him disturbed me in all honesty. He knowingly puts himself around children that he will be attracted to and I find that extremely weird for someone that claims they've never offended. Kinda of fucked up in hindsight to know that about yourself and then literally choose to go to your brothers house to see the child you're attracted to(his niece in this case...)and attempt to groom the kid. No wonder his brother cut him off completely. Either way, I hope he continues to see his therapist and stays away from kids entirely.
@@iamjay6112 the safety of children is the most important thing, not your feelings. It's called being a good parent, if someone tells me that they have inappropriate feelings towards children, you're not coming around my daughter or son. Period. And the fact that you think it's fine to put yourself around kids that you'll most likely be attracted(yes even emotionally attracted to them is inappropriate) to is extremely weird, and not the same thing as two consenting adults being attracted to one another. Why would you even compare consenting adults to children? And yeah I do think you should keep away from kids entirely, your comments about the sex offender registry says it all. I remember being 5-6 years old and knowing grown men were looking me in a weird way(obviously sexually), and you probably think that doesn't effect us but it does. Everything you do could be making kids feel uncomfortable(whether you've touched them or not), but you probably don't care. You seem to only care about yourself and your feelings. Grooming is literally when someone builds a relationship, trust, emotional connection with a child so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them. Which is exactly what you were doing to your niece, or sorry "brothers kid" because you can't even call her your niece because you're guilty of being attracted to her so you gotta use distancing language to make yourself feel better about it. And yes a pedophile talking about a child being depended upon them is disgusting and gross. Anything you do with kids will be considered gross because of the feelings you feel, and that's just how it is. I'm glad you're not out here ruining kids lives with seuxal abuse, but that doesn't mean I would trust you with my daughter alone. I do truly hope you get your relationship needs met in a healthy, safe way, because as much as I'm judging, I can sympathize that you probably have a hard time with the thoughts you have and coming to the realization of what you are and most likely not having your relationship needs met ever, which makes me feel sad for you.
Thank you Jay for coming forward and doing this interview. I wouldn't have said this before this video but a paradigm shift in the way we treat non-offenders could help 1. society understand pedophiles better then 2. save more children from being abused. Anything pushed to the shadows only gets worse.
I just started listening. I know a therapist who worked in the penal system with sex offenders, including crimes against children. The sad truth is that in their estimate, 90% of convicted pedophiles disucssed in their therapy that they were sexually abused as children themselves. I know it feels impossible, but majority of these people were also victims at one point. That said, it doesn't excuse any of it. In fact its helpful information to know. People who have been sexually abused need to seek treatment, if not only for themselves but for others. The child will one day grow up and may commit the same offense, which is OBVIOUSLY unacceptable. Proactive help is what will help stop this from happening to help stop this cycle of abuse. Knowing the "why" helps to stop it from happening.
That redditor that reported him to his family probably saved that little girl. They did absolutely nothing wrong because he is a dangerous person to be around children.
Dr Honda thank you for modeling a healthy boundary between listening/ yearning to understand, and also demonstrating in this dialogue with J “this is wrong/abusive/ exploitive”when these elements arise - its interesting to note J appears conflicted as to whether or not they were exposed to material that was harmful to them at too young an age.
I also found it interesting how many hypotheticals you posed that J seemingly never considered - for one reason or another.
I greatly appreciate this interview, I was able to see J as a human who has thoughts, impulses, and preferences they know cognitively are harmful, and is trying to take ownership over it.
I commend J’s bravery, and my heart goes out to the deep pain we just heard the very surface of here. My greatest condolences to all of the family members J lost.
Wow, thanks for never shying away from the difficult topics Dr K. The only way to tackle a problem is to understand it. It would be interesting to know some time how you as a therapist recover from these kinds of conversations or how you 'shake them off' before going home to your family
I thought you made a mistake calling him Dr.K. from healthy gamer, but then I realised his name is Kirk 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@tigershenanigans6878
Lol it took me a second to remember as well- I’ve called him Dr Honda for so long
An unsavory click 😬 but a necessary topic of discussion. We have to address every facet of what creates a pedophile so we can stop losing so many children.
I definitely can’t watch this at 8am- this already got me shook.
I understand how someone could be damaged enough to identify as a MAP and I would prefer they do not offend, make a point to avoid children and child spaces, even educating other MAPs and encouraging them to seek help- obviously- but BOY is this a touchy subject.
I hope y’all won’t shit on Dr. Honda for platforming this, you KNOW he’s thought this through. He’s a very emotionally intelligent and smart man.
Thanks. Yeah, be careful before listening.
I just don't like even entertaining these people or their views. They are so evil and all these discussions do is normalize pedophilia which is horrendous and has no part in the world.
I don’t understand how this is heavy if you don’t have trauma around the topic? I have watched interviews of people that have been sa‘d who were really specific about what happened and that really is traumatic. This guy never did anything that is even remotely difficult to hear. Just that he is attracted to children, which we all already know is the definition of a pedophile.
Ap
@@12XxXHandlesAreStupidXxX123 Agree. Seemingly pedophilia is something that is slowly getting normalized in our society. Pedophilia doesn't deserve any rational approach.
(I get that Dr. Honda has no intention to normalize the issue tho, I still don't see the need to share awareness around the topic in public. Then of course in psychology field, so these people get the right treatment, therapy and help in order to prevent any crimes from happening).
In Europe there are goverments that are going towards legalizing an adult-child relationships. Small children are being sexualized more and more these days in many ways, in schools etc, there's a big problem there.
I'd rather avoid the word MAP and all those, one word is enough and that's pedophilia. It's good thing that's there's a stigma.
1:26:14, 😡 I strongly disagree. Anyone who harms or attempts to harm children should be shamed. What they do for their own selfish gratification is condemn an innocent child to a lifetime of hell, a hell that extends well into that child's adulthood. They can sentence their victims to a lifetime of trauma but they as an abuser can't handle a lifetime of shame? Hypocritical is what this is. I also feel Jay wasn't truthful considering what happened with his niece, there is a level of dishonesty and omission from his responses. His thoughts on S.O registry was also very telling.
Yes, I agree with that sentiment. Shame plays a role in society. But I do understand the benefits of less societal shame for the feelings of being attracted to children in and of themselves.
1000% agree! While there's definitely profound trauma impacting Jay and I feel for him, I don't think I have the amount of sympathy as a lot of the other comments on this video. He doesn't seem to care at all about the traumatic effects of SA and is constantly plays down the psychological impact on the victim while always covering for the predator (example his view on SO registry). So yeah, definitely agree, his behavior is incredibly telling.
@@iamjay6112 in every situation in your interview with Dr Honda, you portray yourself as the ultimate victim and are fabricating your stories in order to invoke sympathy from the listeners. You come of as dishonest as anyone can see that there have been omissions and fabrication on your part. What you did to your niece is disgusting and your brother was 100% correct in cutting you off from their family. Any sane person or parent would do this. I hope you find God. You are not a victim, end of story.
@@iamjay6112 establishing a relationship and having inappropriate feelings for your niece is doing something to her. Take some personal responsibility for your actions because this 'woe is me' attitude is pathetic. Who knows what else you've done and hidden.
@@iamjay6112 but we sincerely disagree with you. We think the attraction SHOULD be shamed because it's disgustingly inappropriate and those thoughts/attraction leads to BAD THINGS many times.
I'm not wrong!
Fascinating interview without a doubt, but the term “minor attracted person” makes my blood BOIL.
Thank you dr Honda for calling out child on child SA in the beginning. When talking about it (very similar situation) to therapists in my home country they dismissed me, calling it normal exploration. But the effects can be profound for those affected.
Agree. Happened to me and it effected me. Definitely unhealthy.
Sure. Sure. But... There is such a thing as normal exploration though right? Can you define child on child SA? We pathologize enough of childhood as is, the last thing we need is a generation of sexual neurotics who were given a complex by adults projecting ill-meaning onto entirely innocent behavior.
@@froandcara If you're comfortable, would you mind specifying a few details of your experience?
@@lancewalker2595 speaking for myself only here, but if it was done via coercion and threats by an older child, with repercussions on later life and mental health. Yeah I'd say that's not usual exploration...
@@mads6847 Agreed. Just making sure we're not talking about "show me yours and I'll show you mine" type situations.
Comparing alcoholism to someone being attracted to children is definitely not the same thing.
Same, it's a disorder not a decision.
Not all pedophiles want to be attracted to children because they know it's a moral evil. But they can't do much because you can't choose your sexuality
I’m grateful you posted this Dr. Honda. This is an important conversation and we need to have more dialogue like this even though it’s hard.
I am studying psychology and counselling so often absorb your content. My partner was listening as I was playing this and at the end he said “wow I didn’t know how complex this was” so we had a conversation around it all and he learnt so much. What a torturous life he’s lived and still doing the work to keep others safe. That’s admirable.
this is so fucking sad. I know someone who pursues research in prevention and treatment for this disorder and currently it's very discouraging because of how small the field is. he's running out of options to continue his work and will likely have to switch fields of research. it's very frustrating that there's not enough resources and interest to put into this (along with other sexual disorders AND sexual violence as well). I send him everything I find on this subject and the reality just gets sadder.
imagine having something so ingrained in you and not knowing how to tear it out. imagine, instead of having an full spectrum of human experience with romantic companionship, and perhaps the ENTIRE human sexual experience, you just have a hole because the only right thing to do was to carve it out of you. imagine living your whole life feeling diseased while every physical part of you still seems to work. I just wish people didn't have to deal with this; I feel this was about any psychological disorder though. life is pain but the best thing you can do is adapt
anyway I only got halfway thru this interview before I quit. it was too much; the disclaimer was definitely warranted
I’ve survived CSA myself and I have looked into the research- it’s biological. We can’t stop people who are attracted to children from existing, they always will and I don’t think we help children be any safer by forcing them underground and to each other for support… if we made it so they could access support so they can live their lives without offending we would help so many more children grow up without the pain that is caused
We could do so much more to actually reduce risks to our children but instead we are so concerned with looking good we actually make it easier for them to offend in this society
As a trauma survivor (trauma bond, Stockholm syndrome) I have to interrept this case of pedophilia is based on the same logic: early experience defining your future view/experience of things. Very interesting take on the subject. Thank you Honda, you keep on broadening my perspectives via every video
One… thing that id like to just drop in here is that a lot of “MAPs” may not be offenders and that is good, but I would consider viewing, obtaining or circulating filmed abuse to be a crime and in support of offenders. I know some people don’t do that, or stop doing that, and I have empathy for them.
@Karsten Fohler I can respect that!
I’m a little confused. He says he’s a MAP but somehow he wasn’t attracted to his niece and he’s never offended as an adult. But he still doesn’t believe he s3xually abused kids when he was a teenager to this day bc it felt mutual? I mean, as self aware as this man wants to believe he is, I don’t know if he’s lying about the niece situation and it not being sexual
For him or if I truly just don’t get it. If I had to guess, he’s worried his brother might hear it so he’s holding back
This episode has had a profound effect on me that has enlightened me, filled me with questions, and also with hope and (I believe) a new understanding. At first it caused me to react emotionally, then read comments, then react with a need to discuss and share my thoughts, then listen to Jay respond, then comment, then be left with a feeling like there is something I’m not getting, but I’m close. I’ve been pondering and wondering and realizing I don’t know everything I thought I knew. I further discussed this with my husband (and we both are victims of child abuse, but not csa). We both believed that our early traumatic experiences effect our attachment. And we figured that is how Jay became effected the way he is. I don’t know why but I remembered dr Honda had recently shared a re-run about fetishes which I had zero interest in listening to at the time. But just thinking so much about Jay and about how my husband and I feel we too are effected by child abuse around the same age as Jay, got me thinking - well maybe I do have a fetish, because even though we are “vanilla” we do have a healthy sex life. But I know for me, I have always wondered - why does my mind go into a quick humiliation/obedience fantasy every single time I’m about to orgasm!!!!!! ??????
So then last night I played the fetish podcast! Omg!!!!! Unfortunately I listened while falling asleep so I know I missed a lot but some things I did hear--
There was talk about bird species being imprinted sexually. And talk about the human window for imprinting being aged 4-7. And then what really was a profound thing for me-- there was a Holocaust survivor who had been in a concentration camp during the 4-7yr old time of her life, and she said that she always had a concentration camp fantasy right before orgasm. And naturally she hated that very horror filled and traumatic memory. But as much as she wished that her mind would not go there to orgasm, it did. So according to the theory she was “imprinted” as a child from that age. I could understand her problem because it was described so similarly to my own way of having that quick humiliating fantasy even though I would very much like to not have to have that.
So anyway I plan to re-listen to the fetish one again when I am fully awake.
This just gives me hope, because I feel I can now understand how Jay can be completely powerless over how he was sexually imprinted exactly as the Holocaust survivor and even me. And this also helps me to no see that my suspicions that Jay would offend if in the wrong situation at the right time, may have been all wrong. Because a lot of people - like many - have rape fantasies or prostitute fantasies but they never act on them. I don’t ever act out my little humiliation fantasy and I know never will. I also believe this “imprinting” may be connected to sexual orientation. I can’t wait to learn more.
Jay and anyone else who has seen my previous comments. - I now know that I don’t know anything and my mind is way more wide open now. I’m sorry for being suspicious of Jay. Even if something I said turns out to be right, I now know that I don’t know. Thanks to anyone who read this long comment. Thanks Jay - so much for reaching out for friendship, help, love and understanding. You are awesome for surviving and not giving up. Maybe you are going to help us figure out a way to better protect 4-7 yr olds from being harmfully imprinted on. You help me to evolve and expand my understanding and to discard unhelpful beliefs. Thanks again Jay and dr Honda too.
@@iamjay6112 I definitely can get that now. Hugs back to you. 🌷
1:11:31 These two sentences is what’s concerning.
I hope those things he couldn’t see at that time, he could see now.
Dr. Honda, I appreciate you for this interview. I’ve had this conversation with family and friends often. I understand why people are repulsed with pedophiles, but I do think society has to create a safe space for them to disclose their status so they can get help. Once they’re shamed into darkness, it puts so many children at risk for abuse.
Agreed! I wonder if this is something they can recover from or if it's something that's "set in stone".
@@JulesA5266 there is no way to get rid of it, they can learn how to live with it and navigate it so they don't hurt anyone
I don't know. If they wouldn't have to feel their attraction is not ok,and they would feel safe even showing it it would be a lot easier for them to be around kids and to act on it.
With all due respect, why should it be society's job to save pedos from abusing kids? If they want to be free from their affliction it should be on them. Handled privately between them and their therapist and priest. "society has to create a safe space for pedos"?? really?
@@baristaTam Exactly
I worked in a prison clinic... I don't know the exact statistics but even in my very closed off culture where something like this rarely gets reported there were shockingly a lot of convicted pedophiles... people who most often look plain normal and you would never think they would do something horrific like that unless you knew their prison record. My heart breaks for their victims. We need to nurture trusting and empowering relationships with kids, protect the vulnerable ones and have more educational material like this. This is one of the hardest subject to even hear about but it's one of the most important imo.
Im just starting this episode now, but I know a therapist who worked in the penal system with sex offenders, including those who have committed awful acts against kids, and the sad truth is that 90% of them (estimate) experienced childhood sexual trauma.
@@dejavuchicka thats a self report. many p3do lie about being abused as a manipulation tactic.
its offensive to CSA victims who never have hurt another person. being abused doesn't magically make you an abuser like they think
@@callmekirkland8 yuuup thanks for pointing this out
@@dejavuchicka I wouldn't believe anything they say. It's just some poor me excuse to alleviate responsibility.
Hello
It’s a repulsive topic but one that needs to be explored. CSA has run rampant and how we’re dealing with it now clearly isn’t working bc it’s still happening.
I think that J’s testimony sheds a lot of light as to why this is a bigger issue than we think in society. Young teenage parents, divorced, feelings of abandonment, parents with drugs and alcohol issues (at least his father), other children being sexual with him, the sexualization of children in our society. Obviously not everyone who went through the same things developed like him, but he did, and my guess is there are more like him that we don’t know about, and because it is so stigmatized (partially with good reason), we may never know, so it continues to happen under everyone’s noses. There’s a lot that needs to change, but where do we even start?
@@MS-sr6mj he’s not advocating for child molesters. CSA is primarily not committed by pedophiles, but by sadists who turn to children as victims because they are easy victims. Pedophiles often do NOT have sadistic fantasies, but rather an unrealistic wish to have a consensual relationship with a child, which is of course not possible. Most people with pedophilic thoughts do not act on those. The people who hurt children, often don’t care that their victim is a child but they care about the power. that’s why most CSA happens within the close family. And why the perpetrator usually doesn’t stop with the victim aging, as long as they have the total dominance. It is important to separate the issues pedophilia as a severe psychosexual disorder and CSA. They overlap, but blaming everything on pedophilia is protecting those who sexually abuse children but are not pedophiles. Sexual sadism is a whole other bucket of filth
I think a lot of it has to due with the secrecy and stigma around speaking openly about it. It's a very difficult topic that needs to be better understood in order to prevent people from becoming offenders. Majority of the world sees it as black and white and that all offenders should be tortured and killed because that is the easiest answer. No thinking involved, just emotional purging.
I really appreciate the care and consideration that was given with this interview. J’s life is emotional and relatable in many aspects. This interview really opens up my mind and perspective on this topic. It is my hope that J finds peace and happiness along with possibly helping others to be more mindful of the human condition. Thank you so much for this podcast.
I just want to say, thank you so much for sharing this interview with us. It is eye opening. I feel a lot of compassion for the person you interviewed and am really glad that he has been brave enough to share his story. I love that your channel is a place where we can approach any topic, including incredibly difficult subjects like this one.
Thanks for doing this Dr Honda. This comment section is gonna be brutal but it's a much needed discussion.
I've thought about this for quite a long time, and I believe that widespread social destigmatization would inevitably lead to normalization; slowly but surely. I understand that the person attracted to kids would face the societal stigma and undue pain but I say, once with trepidation, but now with staunch clarity, I am willing to sacrifice them for the good of children. Harsh, I know, but this is what I think. That's not to say that there should not be help. There should be places for them to go and seek help from trained medical professionals. However, I think that this training and perspective should stay within a medical setting only. Larger society should not give one inch toward the destigmatization of pedophilia.
So much lying regarding his niece… OF COURSE it was sexual and not just emotional
It's really good he has a therapist. Seriously. Someone to help keep himself in check and understand himself more. Im sure so many people with attraction to kids have none of that emotional intelligence or support, therefore only their own selves standing between hurting a kid.
kudos for this person to speak publicly. however I feel like he's still not being completely honest. As a child I could tell when an older man was looking at me and viewing me in a sexual way - even if there was no contact physically...That left an impact on me. As I suspect many children can pick up on that inappropriate energy directed toward them. Plus i don't believe this guy never had a sexual thought or feeling for his niece. Just no way he did not.
Absolutely. I sense that same level of “hiding”. I definitely think it is wonderful he is being as honest as he is, because that is the first step. But I don’t believe he never offended or affected the niece. Hopefully his therapist is pushing him to set really strong boundaries/stay away from kids. I do believe he doesn’t want to offend or hurt…but it’s just like addicts. They don’t want to but if it’s right in front of them and then they make excuses to continue to have the “drug” right in front of them, it’s just a matter of time until the wheels fall off the bus. His life sounds tragic- I don’t think his childhood was ideal or happy compared to adulthood- I think his childhood was a tragedy and horrific, and he keeps revisiting it and getting sucked back into it to “solve” some question in his head about it and even try to heal it. Please be honest with your therapist J- brutally honest. Even if it means actions lead to consequences. It’s the real healing balm you’re looking for
Yeah listening to him speak, there was a clear through-thread in what he said and how he said things that sought to diminish the risk and danger that his desires/attractions (or anyone with those desires/attractions) presents to children, families, and communities. Some of what he said was outright lies. When he said the sex offenders have the lowest recidivism rate (around the 1 hour 28 mark)? They actually have some of the highest which is well documented by the mental health and judicial systems (and this is easily verified by a quick google search looking at reputable sources you can find online). As soon as I heard him say that, I felt even more strongly that he is being deeply dishonest with himself and about his 'community'. Just seems like there was a lot of rhetoric from him that aimed to lower the guard of people who are rightfully, instinctually wary of people with these issues...and a lot of rhetoric from him that distanced himself from his role and responsibility over his own actions (or people like him). I'm suspect of what anyone with as clear agenda and such high stakes says about their criminal sexual predilections.
So you're operating on the assumption that he is admitting some things and not others because.....? Why? You don't think the subject matter in itself is already shameful enough? It seems a lot more likely that you are projecting your experience onto this person, which is fine. It could be a sign that there's some work you can do. Sorry that happened to you.
And adding onto that, the fact that you guys can't fathom the idea of a sexually abusive relationship that involves no sex shows you have little experience with it, which is wonderful. There are actually a lot of videos that help educate people on this concept that you can research on your own time if it matters to you. I can truly see how that ignorance alone could lead you to such a conclusion. I still don't think we should be calling anyone a liar and putting our own experience onto them, denying their own. Aren't we taught by Professor Sam Vaknin that denying other's realities is gaslighting? A form of abuse in itself? Don't be a gaslighter. Be a humble survivor.
He knows he's disgusting. Of course he's "not entirely honest", if he was "entirely honest" he would have already blown his brains out.
The fact that I could listen to this entirely without falling apart after experiencing SA from the age of 3 and again as an adult is a testament to how amazing Dr Honda is. I also have 2 daughters which makes me constantly on the lookout for pedos and builds a lot of anxiety and anger towards these people. That being said, there’s a lot I can empathize with Jay about, and there’s a lot I just can’t. I was molested by a grown man at the age of 3, but I’ve never let that define me or my sexual orientation. I know we’re seeking to understand and not excuse, but I’m seeing some downplaying and obfuscating that leads me to believe the “non offending” part isn’t so non offensive. He describes his love for his niece as if it’s the same as my love for my daughters. It’s not. If it was a paternal love we wouldn’t be talking about it. And until you own up to that, you will never be able to work through it. If you would love her like that at 17 as much as you loved her as a child, it wouldn’t be an issue. That was predatory behavior and toward your own flesh and blood.. not okay. Never okay no matter how you slice it. And these people are the reason my children are not allowed on the internet. Something they will need to be able to navigate in their adult lives. So because people like this exist, I’m forced to handicap my children from something that is becoming more and more a necessity. It’s not fair that children must navigate the world differently because people are sick in the head. I can’t let my kids where short shorts in 110 degree weather because of people like this. It’s ridiculous. Don’t blame tik tok, don’t blame parents. It’s 100% on you. And quite frankly YOU shouldn’t be allowed to troll the internet in any kind of just society.
That's what I was thinking ,he described his emotion for his niece as paternal. That didn't make sense to me, because that's not what we are talking about, that wouldn't be an issue ? I love my nieces and nephews , i'd protect them with my life if I had to , that isn't a bad thing. If we are really being open , why not say what it truly was you felt for her? Isn't this the whole point of this interview? And if it is about being needed , why didn't he develop those same feelings with his grandmother who also needed him? If it really is about being someone's keeper. You'd think that volunteering at an senior living facility, or creating a close relationship with someone if age that is more reliant on him would fill that, you're right , it makes it seem darker than what it is being portrayed as, because of the lack of transparency in the most important part.
There are always going to be people who are sick in the head who we will always have to try our best to protect ourselves and our children from. It doesn't serve anything except wasted energy and time to stay angry. At least some of these people can be helped. Others will end up getting killed and locked up for not getting help before it's too late. I've been through a traumatic event that even those who have been SA'd have told me they don't think is traumatic, so I've lost a certain degree of empathy for humanity due to their lack of empathy toward my trauma, and now I realize that as long as everyone works on doing what they can to better themselves, better situations, and help others... there's not much more we can do, and that's fine with me. I'm happy to let go of the illusion of control I sometimes think I have or wish I had when it's just not possible to have control over others' free will, so I'm not going to waste my life hating people who hurt me. I'm going to always hate what they do, though, and obviously protect and serve where I can.
I think he finds difficult to accept the fact that he was in love with his nephew and you can hear Dr. Honda trying to make him aware that maybe the relationship and the attachment he had towards his niece isn't what he think it was. That in fact it was inappropriate,and that he was trying to fulfill emotionals and intimate needs that should be fulfilled by an adult with his little nephew.
The true is that if I had a kid I wouldn't let him near my kid. He hasn't no intentions to offend but sometimes people do things they don't think they gonna do ,so in this instance better safe that sorry.
I have a lot of sympathy for Jay. For somebody who is non-offending he’s really just somebody who’s struggling with their trauma and is working on themself.
I completely agree, it’s a very sad story.
This topic is so important. Thanks to both of y'all for having the courage to speak about it.
I am one of the people who will be going to a masters degree program with the goal of working with children who have been sexually abused. I wanted to start with my bachelors, however, I needed to move past the disgust and hatred toward MAP’s, but I did a lot of reading and I am now an advocate for the rehabilitative perspective Dr. Honda espouses.
Thank you for this interview, I now know this is work that needs to be done, and I’m where I need to be.
Man I’m having a super hard time with this one. Even just hearing him say “little girls” repulses me. I only have about 15 minutes left of the interview and I haven’t really been able to let go of my shaming mentality, which I guess doesn’t really have anything to do with him, it has to do with me. I don’t have any traumas around this topic but I just really feel…. Yucky about this one.
You feel yucky because you know anyone under 18 cant consent. And he is talking lower than 15... so yeah. It feels icky.
You’re supposed to feel that way. It’s wrong. If we didn’t feel that way they would be able to make their acts legal.
@@jdvizcainoarmand Not only that but younger than 13. He specifies at some point that he was no longer attracted to his childhood "friend" after they turned 13.
@@bab8771 that is beyond twisted...
I do feel sympathy for him for the lack of familial supports and friendships, his concerning childhood and trauma, however, his opinions on the sex offender registry and criminal sentences made me feel icky towards him and generally. I will say though, my biggest takeaway is gravity of the harm of sexual experiences too young. Even though he was molested by another child, it exposed him developmentally way too young and I just have to imagine it played a big role the development of his psyche, possibly creating his attraction to young children. Some of the MAP community who want recognition argue that sexual experiences with children are not harmful to them, which is clearly a lie that needs to be continued to be discussed. I'm not a big fan of the "MAP" acronym because I do not want to minimize the gravity and risk of harm pedophiles can cause, even those who haven't offended yet. But I do agree with Dr. Honda that we need to understand this and destigmatize mental health so folks can get the coping tools and skills they need to continue not to reoffend.
It took courage to post this interview and I am grateful for the information. I am training in a mental health crisis center and we need to be ready to help anyone in a non-judgemental way, including people with disturbing thoughts like those urges. In the absence of an actual crime/action committed, it is our job to help them towards healthy solutions, we can't just shut down and push them away. It is important to know the real mechanisms behind the issues to help prevent more damage.
It must be some sort of an "information processing" problem in the brain during s***al development, that's also the reason why understanding these people's childhood is very-very important. What causes it remains unknown, it needs to be studied, but the society makes it literally impossible.
I had to stop listening a 1h06...because too me, although I had no trouble listening to this at the start, it seemed that Jay was not able to be completely honest and not even with himself. I also got the impression he was downplaying his involvement and what his intentions/fantasies really were. This man has a completely distorted view on what love is...love for the niece, love for a partner. Childhood trauma, the faillure to connect as a young adult, the shame, guilt, wrongfull interpretations and emotional neglect have made him twist relationships, intimicy and inner thoughts for years...There's a very naieve look on what attraction and closeness should be experienced. I never heard him lusting for a child, it was more the inner child that refused to grow up. I suspect he's got much more problems than just the one...
My intuition about his falling out with the church family that had the woman being sexually inappropriate is that he felt aggressed upon in the perspective of a child, similar to how he may fall in love with children as though he were one.
@@iamjay6112 hey, sorry I missed your response earlier. This sounds like you felt pressured given your dependence on the family, and like you said she was a mother figure. In my opinion it is clearly sexual assault (would be blatantly obvious if your genders were switched). Anyway, I'm sorry that happened to you as well as the many losses you've had. I also want to say I would absolutely be your friend if I knew you in person. Wishing you good health and happiness.
Thank you for this wonderful episode, and thank you to J for his candor. While he has been non-offending toward children, he has instead been offending toward himself, whether that be through drug use, suicide attempts, etc. It's so tough to figure out how someone with such a societal-taboo affliction can find peace and joy in this lifetime while living in society.
Well i was pretty understanding until the last bit when he said he doesnt think the public should have access to the sex offender registry 😬 yeah… no, lets keep that around.
I have endless appreciation for the way Dr Honda did his damndest to take care of us listeners throughout this conversation.
Just.. thank you…
I hope this sort of active respect and care for ones viewers becomes the norm sometime very soon.
💜💜
This is really good timing. I could not physically sleep last night because I was working in a felony courtroom yesterday and I helped a man who wanted to make sure he was on the call list for my courtroom today. He seemed nice and I smiled at him. When he went up I found out he’s facing a life sentence for manufacturing child pornography of minors under 13 years old, sexual abuse of two minors under 13, neglect of a child, 10 counts of child pornography, among other things. It was sickening. I read into his file and found out that for the past 8 years he’s been in and out of prison for sexually abusing little kids. He will get out on a 60k CASH bond and go on to assault or manufacture again. He wasn’t even a registered sex offender as the previous prosecutor removed that in their plea deal… he spent only 4 years in prison. He was out on bond right now. I keep thinking what he did when he went home after court yesterday. Could not sleep. So thanks for this
Edit: I’m a law student & clerk. So I’m not “used” to this stuff
It's always so shocking to me how little time people get for sex crimes. Here in Canada if you don't pay your taxes you could spend more time in prison than a rapist.
"in and out of prison for sexually abusing little kids" should not be a reality for anyone. That's insane. What is wrong with our justice system?
@@ohisee9173 that’s a good question. Prosecutors will usually work out plea deals with the defendant, and the judge doesn’t choose the sentence. If the previous prosecutors worked out a deal that said 8 years prison m in exchange for a guilty plea, then he took that instead of going to trial. It’s unfortunate because usually they only serve half the time :/ I hope this one goes to trial so the judge can put him away for a long time
This interview will be in my thoughts for a few days. This interview felt honest & open-minded. I appreciate hearing J's experience. Thank you Dr Honda
Imagine having to take care of your abusers and their accomplice in their old age.....
I feel like im going to jail just by watching this video.
Thank you to this man for his honesty! He’s had trauma after trauma after trauma in his life and has done his best to live a good, meaningful, existence. It was generous of him to share his story with us! Thank you.
I don’t believe he wasn’t thinking about his niece in a romantic or sexual sense. Just from everything he was saying, it just doesn’t make sense? If he’s saying it’s a sexual orientation, then his attraction to her has to of fulfilled his sexuality in some way. Sexual orientation doesn’t determine who you can be intimate friends with.
I also find it hard to believe because we can't really control our thoughts. If his attachment to children was emotional and sexual then I would think they are a package deal?
@@joanna0988 there are asexual people in the world, so emotion doesn’t equal sex. And I have definitely had emotional attachments to men and no thoughts or desires for sex, even in my 30s.
@@OohlalaHolly Yes of course but he did seek out and engage in sexual behaviour with minors while being a minor so that doesn't sound asexual to me?
I don’t believe he wasn’t looking at his niece in sexual- romantic way either. I feel with more time it would have happened or already happened. I’m glad his brother knows now and can protect his daughter
If it works like other orientations it would make sense. People aren´t usually attracted to their relatives.
I think it's highly dangerous to describe a 7-year-old as a child sexual abuser, purely on the fact that she was older. The interviewee describes the experience as consensual and did not express being bullied or cohered into doing those acts. According to the NSPCC, children between 5-9 are in the same phase of sexual development. There are many factors we don't know, to place fault on their age when that child probably had no idea of their actions. The NSPCC calls this problematic sexual behaviour when a child is engaging in behaviours that are inappropriate for their age or maladaptive. Child sexuality shouldn't be demonised but approached with compassion so that children can feel safe to discuss these experiences and hopefully treat the child before they end up becoming a NOMAP.
I still haven't listened to the interview so I don't know much about the person you've interviewed. But I have always been aware of the fact that there are non-commiting ped*ophils out there who are aware of the fact that children can not consent, and they would do everything in their power not to commit the unthinkable. And I have the upmost respect for them, and I do wish them increasing strength of will power and inner peace.
This is obviously something that is difficult to empathize with, but agree that increased openness would lead to treatment and therefore less abuse.
Ya... Sympathy is a terribly underrated thing these days. We place far too much exclusive emphasis on "empathy".
"Emotional attachment " to a little girl. 🙁
🚫 Trigger Warning❗️:
I was "boy crazy" when I was in Kindergarten. I recall playing "kissing tag" back then. Where most of the kids probably thought it was funny and that it was just a game or that the opposite sex had "cooties", I found it thrilling and something I enjoyed playing. Hearing the first part of the interview and knowing that the majority of my peers would say it took them until about age 13 or so before they became attracted to the opposite sex or even later has me questioning my upbringing more than I already do.... 🤔😬 From a young age (1st grade) I always invited boys to my birthday parties, & had a major crush in 1st grade that carried through until I switched schools.
There are parts of my home life that I now know are quite questionable, if not inappropriate and/or toxic.
1 thing that has always confused though is that I had a sexual dream when I was about age 4 that involved my dad's friend. I didn't know what sex was at that age! He's always given me the creeps as well as an uncle of mine. I've never felt fully comfortable around either of them. Problem is- I can't recall anything specific about them or anything legitimately "happening" between us. It's just a strong, strange, uncomfortable, "ick" feeling.... I've tried to discuss this with therapists and one told me if I can't remember anything specific then I should basically just let it go. I'm not sure if this is the right answer or if the answer is to further explore it. I understand it doesn't help to entertain the thought of something *possibly* happening, but at the same time I can't help but wonder if there's more to it. When I found out in my 30's that I had been left alone with my dad's friend to be babysat when I was little on several occasions it about made me throw up. Okay, I'm gonna stop rambling now... I didn't mean for it to take this direction so I'll give a TW. Thank goodness I'm in therapy, though I think a therapist who can remain objective and has the stance that Dr. Honda has would be incredibly beneficial. My therapist now is great, I just don't know how much I trust discussing certain topics with her. I live in Utah and due to the large # of LDS folk here, it's difficult to not be concerned about being judged. My therapist is LDS and thankfully she's more trustworthy and understanding than most others (likely bc she's originally from another state). Either way it's a scary topic. 😮💨
wow i've never heard about kids having dreams like that before puberty, i find it weird that your therapist brushed you off like that, especially with the 'ick' feeling you're describing and the weird situations you were put in with him. maybe if there's any other way you can explore anything in your childhood you'd be able to figure out what led to you having that kind of dream at such an early age but damn thats wild as shit
I for sure think you should be speaking to your therapist about it. Mostly because of the "ick" feeling. The sexual thoughts / dreams alone are not all that concerning to me. I know we've been socialized to feel wrong or icky about ourselves (especially as women) for having those thoughts at a young age but I think most of the time it's normal, it's just taboo. I had those thoughts for as long as I can remember. My first thought like that was about one of my preschool teachers. And I know for 100% certainty that I was never hurt in that way. When I've said this to people they try to tell me that something bad had to have happened to me because it's impossible to have those feelings that young otherwise. But that's not the case. I think young girls are socialized to believe we are wrong and disgusting to have these thoughts and therefore do not ever speak of them. But everyone develops at different speeds and girls are much quicker to develop these feelings than boys on average. But either way I'd talk to your therapist because either you have the ick feeling now because you recognize society views it as wrong for you to have felt that way or because something actually happened. Both of which I see as something therapy can help with.
@@baileylushina stop normalizing signs of abuse.
I was abused young and struggle to believe myself as well. You're not alone. I experience the dreams and the ick as well. You deserve to heal in whatever way you need.
it's very probable that something happened and your mind blocked it out
That was sad for him. Thanks for doing this. I sometimes forget how easy I have it, and how tough it is for some people. I hope he's ok and thanks to him too for 1) having integrity and knowing right from wrong, and 2) opening up.
This episode was so sad and depressing, I also felt so grateful after listening for the fact that I can have a normal healthy relationship which he will probably never have.
Ok...the fact that he's not recognizing any behavior with his niece as inappropriate then says he thought of her all the time, and had anxiety about being able to see her, lets us know exactly what his priorities were...
Let me be clear: ALL P*DOS ARE MONSTERS!! Offending or 'non-offending'. This is ridiculous! Stop getting off to kids. GD groomers
I really wish I could be compassionate toward people that have this problem, affliction, situation, whatever you choose to call it. But I’m simply not. I will never call them maps. That, to me, is lessening the severity of this kind of problem. I also don’t believe everything J says, and I don’t understand why everyone is just taking his word. He’s clearly afraid that he’s going to be recognized for something he says.
To Jay,
Thank you so much for this video. Thank you Jay for being very open and talk to us about your past, where you feel that your tendencies and attraction to minors started, your family trauma and substance abuse. It really added more nuances and perspectives into my narrow understanding of NOMAP. I hope you receive all the help that you need, deserve and heal. My genuine hope that with healing and support that you may understand why and consequently feel more atrracted to people of your peers rather than children, as well as developing healthy and appropriate relationship with them rather than with children. I could hear that you are in pain and I hope you would not feel like so anymore. As Dr.Honda has shared in other videos before, as adults, we could not get our needs meet through children as they are by nature dependant on adult to learn and survive in the world.
To Dr. Honda, I just have a question: do you think that Jay attracted young girls started and continues because it reminds him of "fun" and mutual "sexuality exploration" with another partner, to quote y'all conversation?
From the conversation I had a feeling that because most of his friendships seem to carry so much sexual undertone, and because the most traumatizing friendship happened when he was so young, he may overlap the feeling of connection and friendship with being fun with minors?
Sorry for the long comment and sentence structure.English is not my first language,but I really want to chime in a bit, and hopefully in a respectful manners. Look forward to more of your content
I can appreciate Jay for getting his own therapist for this
I grew up surrounded by child molestors/abusers, I got zero compassion for them and I don’t care if I get hate, I don’t care! My life, my opinion, my feelings!
They don’t recover, they’re messed up for life!
What about people like him that don't actually abuse anyone? It sounds like he will never recover but he could also never offend.
Big respect to the interviewee for opening his the most intimate thoughts and experiences to the world especially with this difficult topic. I wish the best to him. He looks like a nice guy in a very unenviable life position.
I agree with Dr Honda about making it easier for pedophiles to get help, however I STRONGLY disagree with using the term ‘minor attracted person’ etc . Call it what it is - pick whichever fits best: Pedophiles, Hebephiles or Ephebophiles.
The issue is that in layman terms, "pedophile" is synonymous with "child abuser". That's why the term has started to exist. I agree with you, but I also recognize why the term exists.
@@MisakaMikotoDesu I recognize that too but it shouldn’t change anything.
Recovering alcoholics and addicts still refer to themselves as alcoholics and addicts even though they are sober. It’s important to use the right language for many reasons but probably most importantly to not lose sight of how dangerous acting on the impulse can be .
I'm going to be a counselor in a small community and I need to learn all I can in a way where I can listen to and recognize signs early. Small towns are close and that is someone most everyone likely knows. I want to see what abuse prevention therapy is available for these people. What works for them to live in a way that's healthier for themselves and the communities they live in. Healthier: safe and conscious.
Im speechless. This was so good for me to hear. Thank you Dr. Honda for handling this interview in an understanding, empathetic, and helpful way. I wish more people would be open to understand this so we can actually work toward solutions.
Dr Honda, very interesting interview. Thanks for the in dept intro and trigger warnings. I have no trauma related to this but was checking in with myself and decided to tap out about an hour in. Thanks for everything you do!
(Trigger warning for this comment... Mild SA themes involved) I've had a bit on an epiphany listening to this interview. What really struck me is that it highlights society's beliefs around sexual attraction and one's ability to control it. I was reflecting on how the stereotypical pedophile is a man (perhaps more of them actually are men, but I'm guessing we don't have much data on this?) I was thinking about how it's normalised to view men as being unable to control their sexual actions to at least some extent and how this is often used to blame the victim (e.g. "oh she was wearing a revealing outfit"). Society is still growing up when it comes to sex, sexuality, and consent - we don't seem to realise that men in particular are capable of being attracted to another human being without exploiting them for sexual gratification.
Thank you Dr Honda for this thought-provoking interview. And hello from Australia!
Folks, by the way, if you haven't listened to this but you're thinking about it, I want to reiterate Dr Honda's warnings... I have not personally had experience with CSA, but if I hadn't already been through 2 years of therapy so far I really don't think I could have listened to this. It would have triggered me, but without therapy, I probably wouldn't have even recognised that I was getting triggered. Look after yourself ❤️❤️
Wonderful discussion. I appreciate the interviewee for his candidness and vulnerability. Thank you too, Dr. Kirk - this is excellent knowledge for public teaching.
His speech pattern is like Jeffrey Dahmer’s and similarity that parents divorced and affected by feelings of mother abandonment
I've always disliked these "MAP" type monikers. I've been seeing them filtering into LGBT type spaces trying to legitimize their attractions, and identifying themselves as such is often a way of minimizing their condition. Helmut Kentler and other sexologists of his ilk have a long history of legitimizing child-attraction and placing children with pedophiles, and they are the source of this terminology. Even "non-offending" in this context indicates this person will seek out níche legal situations where he can abuse children legally.
Same, i didn’t like the usage of it in this video. maybe there is a reason behind using it that i don’t know of, but it seems like a way to avoid feelings
Never thought I'd say this but my heart goes out to this young man. I'm a recovering addict so I relate to his deep pain. His early experiences shaped who he is. That he has not acted or harmed a child is something ii give him full credit for. I wish they'd all go into therapy. I hope he can have a satisfying ADULT relationship one day. Thank you for this enlightening interview.
I appreciate you sharing this; it is good for us to hear the mind of certain people. I just feel like he skips, skates, and moonwalks back on his answers. I wonder how honest he is to Dr Honda and to himself.
I appreciate your introduction and agree about the importance of what you said.
*Edit: Prior to going into listening to this I also want to thank the interviewee for being brave enough to speak about their experience. I imagine it wasn't easy.
I wonder why this wasn’t triggering at all for me in any way.
It mainly just gave me a different perspective on people who are attracted to children and to have more compassion in this area.
So much starts in childhood and from trauma.
Hugs to Jay ❤ what a life
I've developed DID because of CSA and CP and I have great compassion for non offending pedophiles from my tean years up until now (in in my early 30s). It's been such a relief for me to listen to their stories in order to differentiate what happened to me as nothing but evil acts of violence without blaming a mental health diagnosis because I myself am not the monster as which people with DID are often portrayed in the media. I just have so much respect for people like him who feel the attraction but don't act on it. It has to be so painful to work against such a strong need like the one for intimacy with someone you feel attracted to. Not to mention his traumatic biography, I truly feel for him and everyone else who's suffering greatly in this regard too. I really hope that the stigma can be reduced and society will transform towards compassion and helping non offending pedophiles like him to stay non offending and reduce all the pain that comes with never being able to be with who you love without any fault. It's not his fault that all these things happened to him and that he's attracted to children as a grown-up man, he'd for sure change it if it was possible. Wish him all the best and thank you Kirk for this very painful to listen to but equally important interview! I really like your compassionate and gentle take on all the topics you talk about and I find it to be especially valuable and important on stigmatized conditions like this one.
@@iamjay6112 hey, thank you for the interview. It was very enlightening to hear your story. I do have a question for you though. How do you know you would never harm a child? Or do you not know that?
@@iamjay6112 I mean, yeah, I do understand that MAPs can have decent control over their urges and they might never offend any kid in their life. But consuming pornography that involves children, for instance, is another way to abuse them. So is it safe to say that you have never hurt or never will hurt any child, even though the abuse is indirect?
Thank you for your honesty.
@@ТараБургустина I believe it is safe. The guy probably had medications, and good resistance towards his urges in avoiding this. I have a friend who’s a psychopath, and has urges in k1lling but is basically like Jay, and learnt to not do such horrific things.
Like Jay said, kids are pure, and must be protected. He wouldn’t harm them.
@@iamjay6112 I do have a question, do you feel anything towards fictional? E.g. lolicon?
Ik lolicon isn’t necessarily going to be for pedophiles since it is a fresh for non-pedophiles too but do you at least have any familiarities towards them?
God bless all the Psychologists who treat such people. I could never. I’m only 5 min in and I had to turn off the episode and practice self care.
I fully support maps coming forward and getting help as to not offend or hurt children.
I was trained at a rape crisis center in MA and from what I remember, a two year age gap when kids are that young don’t count as abuse legally. At least here in MA. however you can see how sexual abuse can cause ripple effects for the community not just the individual.
That was a very open-minded interview. Seeing how someone that is a non-offending MAP was enlightening as to what that looks like, especially towards social media. I am attracted to people closer to my age personally, but I wondered what non-offending MAPS thought like. I'm surprised how calm this interview was, as well as how open to questions he was. That was an important interview to have, for further understanding from even one person's life. Interesting video to listen to in the tank top I got from the merch store a year ago, and I can't say I was expecting this video. I respect you both doing this interview and posting it. It's given interesting perspectives.
I really appreciate the pause. I felt fine until the pause and then started crying. Taking your advice to stop for now and come back later.
Same here, and I couldn't explain why.
Assuming everything revealed here is true: When he got to the part about his father and brother...I'd hug him. The different types of loss he's experienced...the hug from the girl at school. And the whole class went to the funeral? And her dad cs as well. I am really glad Jay got to talk and get so much out all at once with a therapist who asked so many questions. I imagine he's pretty lonely. This is a fascinating example of a NOMAP.
It's sus that he thinks rapists shouldn't be publicly shamed but I haven't finished the whole video yet
Yea saying if a pedo does his/her time in jail he should not be shamed it should be viewed as if he paid his debt?? And then saying they are less likely to reoffend compared to other criminals?? Many pedos do not get caught. Does not mean the offenses or post jail reoffenses don't happen. He seemed disconnected from the lifelong trauma a child suffers from from being raped and that doesn't go away because a pedo goes to jail for 5 or 10yrs.
If we want people to be rehabilitated and given a chance to acknowledge the harm they have caused, and accept that they have a problem and also accept their punishment (e.g. jail time), then go through counseling in order to work on themselves and learn ways to live as a healthy, self-controlled person without ever reoffending… then continued public shaming would be counter-productive to all that progress, wouldn’t it?
Imagine someone who’s a perpetrator of a sexual assault from 15 years ago. They’ve gone to jail and perhaps years of therapy, they haven’t reoffended, they’re working hard on themselves and have been able to live as a productive member of society. Should the harm that person caused 15 years ago be known by every single person in their neighborhood? Should they be ostracized by those around them? Given looks when they go grocery shopping? Maybe even be verbally insulted? Do they have to live being shamed like that forever? Is it good to have endless punishment for crimes we’ve committed? I don’t know the answers, but I’m wondering… and I am doubtful that we are truly giving someone a chance at rehabilitation if we repeatedly shame them and ostracize them socially. That is much more likely to make them feel isolated, embarrassed, lonely, depressed… and perhaps even make it more likely they’d reoffend or participate in other harmful behaviors like drugs.
@@mistym0rning There are certain crimes you can be rehabilitated from and there are certain predatory behaviours you cannot come back from. Keep the same energy for serial killers, masochists ect. Where do you draw the line? Certain people are a danger to society forever. Serial rapists and serial murderers should remain behind bars forever. Child molestation is rape btw. Is the same free therapy offered to the rapist offered to the children who were harmed by these sickos? Why are you so worried about the pedophiles instead of the children they harmed? It's a sad time in society when the rebranding of pedophiles to MAPs with their own pedo flag of baby colours is actually working to sway public opinion.
@@mistym0rning Yes they do deserve to be shamed forever after sexually harming someone. The victim will never be able to put the horrors behind them, why should the perpetrator get to and then peacefully live? Someone who is truly a good person at heart would never be able to sexually assault/abuse others and then live with themselves. Thoughts and desires and the will to change deserves therapy and that level of self-awareness is admirable. But once that step to carry out the action has been taken and they have impacted someone by hurting them, yes they deserve a horrible life.
Educational video, but I don’t buy the whole thing. Choosing to befriend a family with kids and getting close to his niece doesn’t sound like he is trying to avoid it.
Yeah, that part was super uncomfy, and the fact that he was sort of cavalier about his s*xuality. Idk how he should present it, but the casual vibe was disconcerting, though I do feel bad for him that he can’t form other attractions
I don’t feel bad for him. I understand he is human and had a rough life and has relational needs like everybody, but look somewhere where kids are not involved ?
I don't think he was telling the truth either. He kept emphasizing that he was"never alone with her" off his brother's property. That is how it so often happens. The pedophile visits the family, gains the parents and child's trust precisely to abuse the child! He said they had their"little places"where they would be together. This wasn't just emotional abuse I'm sure. Pedophiles get off on lying and manipulating for the same reasons that they seek out children- because it makes them feel powerful. They feel entitled to do what they do and see anyone who falls for their lies as stupid, inferior and deserving of contempt. As far as their feelings for the child, that this guy wanted to present as a "love"or "emotional connection" that is also a lie. The child is treated like an object that exists soley for the pedophile's pleasure. They don't care about the trauma they inflict. They are much more worried about their own status and safety. This man could also not resist making himself a victim. People are setting him up and going after him.
That was quite a session. I am very very impressed to hear your very compassionate interview. Great information
I'm glad he touched on the danger with kids on apps like tiktok
@Flower Cat LMAO HOW. Jesus christ. No one is blaming kids for prev adults watching their content..but there absolutely needs to be a bigger conversation around young kids on these apps
Are you kidding me.
@@kat_likemeow The way Jay said it felt in the direction of if a girl were preyed upon by some creep, she shouldn’t have been posting, instead of placing the responsibility on the offender. He may not have been saying that, but there are plenty of people on the internet that will take that one extra step
@@abandonablesnowman he’s trying to alleviate the burden on himself because he knows his attraction is wrong and is trying to justify that it’s okay because it’s the girls fault for his attraction. I’m not as sympathetic to this guy as others are.
@@koobie83 I dunno, to me it seemed more like "I know how these people think" referring to offending maps so he knows possibly more than anyone the danger kids could be in