Trent Horn - Why do Catholics pray to the saints in heaven?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2015
- What good does praying to the saints do? Trent Horn explains what Catholics believe about the Communion of Saints, and why Catholics pray to the saints in heaven.
catholic.com
After his conversion to the Catholic faith, Trent Horn pursued an undergraduate degree in history from Arizona State University. He then earned a graduate degree in theology from Franciscan University of Steubenville and is currently pursuing a graduate degree in philosophy from Holy Apostles College.
Trent is a regular guest on the radio program Catholic Answers Live, a lecturer who speaks across the country on issues related to the Catholic faith, and the author of two books, Answering Atheism and Persuasive Pro-life, both of which are published by Catholic Answers Press.
If you are interested in booking Trent Horn for an upcoming event, please contact Catholic Answers at (619) 387-7200 - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
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This caller is prime example of a man of good will.
Absolutely.
Absolutely agree ..
God bless him and all of Gods people!
God bless this man.
Amen. I loved the charity from all sides.
Praying the rosary doesn’t always change my circumstances, but it always changes me. It has brought me great peace.
Please quote the Bible that tells of Mary praying to/with beads. Quote the Bible that tells of ANYONE praying to/useing beads.
@@mitchellosmer1293show me in the Bible that everything for the Christian to know has to be explicitly stated in the Bible itself?
@@MiguelLopez-gg6rw quote----show me in the Bible that everything for the Christian to know has to be explicitly stated in the Bible itself? unquote
When church declares something--a dogma, what will you use to proves it's validity??? What if a church declared that Mary was not the mother of Jesus? How will you disprove it is wrong???? What if a church declares that Jesus is NOT the Messiah???? How will you prove that is wrong???
---Your comment only proves a religion want to use that excuse to rewrite the Bible to fit their own ideology.!!!
***Hebrews 4:12 Indeed, the word of God is living and effective, sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating even between soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and able to discern reflections and thoughts of the heart), or seen implicitly through its lens.
---- This apparently is what Catholics believe: According to Catholics. Indeed, the word of the Pope (priests) is living and effective......
*** Deuteronomy 17:14-20 states that we “shall not turn away from God’s Word, not to the right or the left”.
---This apparently is what Catholics believe----According to Catholics. They turn to whatever direction they can to satisfy their itching ears.
***Psalm 1:2 and Joshua 1:7-8 says that “the righteous person dwells on the Word of the Lord day and night”.
This apparently is what Catholics believe--- According to catholics. They DWELL on every word spoken by a mere man, the Pope (priests).
***Deuteronomy 8:3 states that “we do not live on bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God”.
--This apparently is what Catholics believe--According to Catholics.“we do not live on bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of the Pope (priests)”.
***Proverbs 30:5-6 states: 5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. 6 Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.
--This apparently is what Catholics believe----According to Catholics. 5 Every word of the Pope proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. 6 Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a heritic.
(--I will ask you, which NO ONE has replied to: Who's other writings does GOD tell us to accept as the truth??? QUOTE FROM the BIBLE!!!!)
Remember these words from Jesus: John 14:6 NIV -
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Since HE IS THE TRUTH, then when a church preaches their version of the truth, who is the truth??? Jesus or the "Church"???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
December 25th is Tammuz’s B-Day
Tammuz is the ancient sun god.
Tammuz is spoken of in Ezekiel 8:14
------The book of Ezekiel was written during Ezekiel's captivity in Babylon. He prophesied from about 592 to 570 B.C.
Interesting… this would put it earlier than 200 AD when Christian’s started the tradition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The New Testament indicates three times that “the Lord’s day” is the seventh day of week. (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27; Luke 6:5, and in the OT: Isaiah 58:13)
Matthew 12:8----For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. ``the day on which Jericho was taken was the sabbath day; and that though they slew and burnt on the sabbath day, (tbv llxl hwu tbvh le hwuv ym) , "he that commanded the observation of the Sabbath, commanded the profanation of it".
Mark 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Luke 6:5 5 And he said unto them,That the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.
Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY; and call the Sabbath a delight, theHOLY of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
>>>
@@MiguelLopez-gg6rw quote---show me in the Bible that everything for the Christian to know has to be explicitly stated in the Bible itself?.. unquote
So, how will you disprove a dogma put out by a church if you can NOT use the Bible??? What happens when a church demands that Mary is not the mother of Jesus???
When a church demands that Jesus is NOT the Messiah???
Demands Jesus did NOT die on the cross for our sins??? What will you use to prove otherwise??
Will you use a source by a mere man???
@@mitchellosmer1293 What do you make of the numerous traditions and views that the Early Church held hundreds of years before Martin Luther?
“A saint is a sinner who never gave up.”
St Therese
Saint is a lie of Rome.
@@garystanfield2274
St Josephine Bakhita • ex child slave
St Francis • rich kid turned homeless
St Claire • such clarity
St John Fisher
As his body grew older his faith grew stronger
St Bernadette
St Mark Ji
St Pius X
St Pius V
St Robert Bellarmine
The problem with Calvin is he can’t say how much God loves us
St Maximilian Kolbe • Auschwitz
St Damian of Molokai • Leper
St Therese • Dr of the Church
St Augustine • ex Playboy
St Paul
Strength is made perfect in weakness.
St Teresa of Calcutta
The hand of the beggar is the hand of the King
@@PInk77W1 You Catholics are so brainwashed and have no clue to what scriptures really teach. You listen to guys like this that keep you in the lies.. You people act like you cannot think for yourselves, brainless wonders.
"SAINT"
The proper word to use is "upright" or "Elect" in place of Saint, since scriptures tell us the following in Romans:
Romans 3:10 As it is written , There is none righteous, no, not one
The etymology of the word “saint” - its origin and meaning: It came into use in the English language around the 1100's, as an adjective used of those whom the Catholic Church had “beatified” and “canonized”. At that time, the meaning of the word “saint” was “holy”, corresponding to the Latin adjective sanctus which meant “holy”, “sacred” (related to the verb sancio, “to consecrate”). So, in the 1100s, “saint Eligius” simply meant “holy Eligius”. Later, in the 1300s or so, the word “saint” began to be used even as a noun, “a saint”, but it still referred to the Catholic “saints”, and was not used of living persons.
The word Sacred is a sun deity name. , Holy is derived for the divinely honored sun. So it seems that since it did come from Rome, that Saint has something to do with the sun and sun worship.
It was only in Protestant times, from the 1500s and onward, that the English word “saint” began to be used of (living) persons of “extraordinary holiness”, and then even of church members and so on.
This would be like the word "rapture", which was used only in Jerome's Latin Vulgate and Christians still use that word today, so it seems that this also goes for the word "saint".
Even the words “saintdom” and “sainthood” were originally Catholic concepts, referring to those whom the Catholic Church had “beatified” and “canonised”. A note: The words “sainthood” and “saintdom” do not appear in bible-translations, at least not in any of the most common ones. All of Catholic origin.
This is how the English word “saint” came into being:
The Greek (Erasmus) text of the New Testament has hagios (άγιος). Jerome's Latin Vulgate version translated that into Latin as sanctus.
Wycliffe, whose 1395 English translation was based on the (Jerome's) Latin text and not on the Greek, did not translate the Latin sanctus but used it, in the transcribed form “seyntis”.
Later, the spelling was changed further, to “sainctes” (Tyndale, 1525), “sayntes” (Coverdale, 1535), “saintes” (Geneva bible, 1560) and finally “saints” (Geneva bible, 1587).
Pagan deities were made Christian saints.
Bacchus became St. Bacchus
Dionysius became St. Denys or Denis
Brigid, Became Saint Brigid
Dazhdbóg became saint Germain
ERos became SAINT EROS,
Demeter is now St. Demetrios
Aphrodite became St. Aphrodite
The Roman deities Mars was originally a deity who guarded wheat fields. He became St. Martin (esp. St. Martin-in-the-fields)
The Roman deity Quirinus became St. Cyrinus,
The Roman deities known as the Lares became St. Lawrence
The Roman female deity Venus became St. Venera
The Roman deities known as the Gemini, who were protectors of sailors in Roman pagan times, became the Sanctos Geminos
The Greek deity Nike was picked up as Saint Nicholas, who was extremely popular wherever shipping was important. He is the patron saint of Russian, Holland and Germany, all on the north sea coast.
The Catholic kyerarchy make up the stories about your Cayholic's so called Saints and you believe those stories of lies. It is all unscriptural.
@@PInk77W1 And don't forget St Paul used to persecute a lot of Catholic.
@@ThuPham-ev1fm very much so
as a person born into a Catholic family, I have always been hazy on this point, being ignorant of a main doctrine of my faith. thank you for clarifying this and opening my heart to my Lord even more.!
Catholicism is fake
@Harry Waddington What they teach is fake. Peter was never assign to be pope. They can fake documents you know that right?
th-cam.com/video/9aJpXC1hjF4/w-d-xo.html
Bible was made in 412-AD only.. Catholic was born before the Bible.
So, Jesus gave authority to Apostols and Apostles gave again to their successors.
Not Bible.
@@mr.meizap.2732 Peter was never pope. There was no dominant church until the catholic took over
@Gold Onyx, did you know the meaning of Pope!?
Peter was the master Shepherd or Father of the Church.
He is the First person to feed the Church which Jesus told him.
So, he is the first Pope..
Trent Horn is awesome, he helped me and my whole family come home to the one true Catholic Church. Praise God hallelujah!
@MTS 3 baby Mathew 16: Jesus said he builds his church on Cephas. That's the church I would want to belong to.
@MTS 3 baby I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this....
Its quite simple...
Jesus said he is going to build His CHURCH (not churches) on Peter. Jesus said that not me.
Therefore, if you want to follow Jesus look for the church (not churches) Jesus built
@MTS 3 baby Its hard to have a conversation with a 7th Day Advantast, too much hatred in them , not following Christ teaching. Remember Jesus said "love your enemies" . If you cant do that then youre not a follower of Christ which makes you a non-Christian. You should start up a religion that is based on hatred. Oh sorry you already did its called the non Christian 7 dayers
@MTS 3 baby Dude pray for yourself you 7 dayers are full of hatred not Christian way of thinking
@@cantrait7311 quote---- Its hard to have a conversation with a 7th Day Advantast, too much hatred in them , not following Christ teaching. Remember Jesus said "love your enemies" . If you cant do that then youre not a follower of Christ which makes you a non-Christian. You should start up a religion that is based on hatred. Oh sorry you already did its called the non Christian 7 dayers.. unquote
Hypocrite!!!!
Christ ALSO said: John 5:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and your joy may be full.
But you do NOT!!!
>>>>John 3:13
No one has gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from there. ... And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son ...
--But not Catholics who insist Mary went to heaven!!! WITH NO BIBLICAL PROOF!!!!
---Jesus kept the Sabbath!! The disciples kept the Sabbath. But NOT Catholics!!!!
As a protestant who is studing Catholisism, and trying to find my place in the church. It was described to me like this. If you ask your friends and family to pray for you, why not those in heaven
@MTS 3 baby That is true, but for a couple hundred years we had no bound and official scripture. So it makes sense to do what the early believers did. All I want to do is be God's servant however that may be.
there is nothing in scripture that tells us that those who have died and gone before us can intercede for us in heaven... quite the opposite actually
@@MrVicmask theres plenty of early church writings that say so, also no one had a bible for a few hundred years....so you should look into what they believed and practiced.
I have studied ancient religion and it really doesn’t matter, the Bible is clear… praying to anyone other than God is not scriptural
I guess it comes down to how you describe praying. Several words, praying being one of them, means different things between protestants and Catholics. Don't get praying and worshipping confused.
I love the heart of this caller. God bless him.
"He thought and read and prayed himself into the Catholic Church". Man, that describes my current spiritual journey to a T.
Me too
Saint is missing other ingocunation! True. Into my Lord And Love for God and Jesus bed to recognize!
Catholics are wrong and miss information are wrong! Got is impregnable
The Catholic Church and all Christianity is a Satanic deceit leading people to the Lake of Fire. Think about this Satan is all about death , the Pope sits on Satan's throne in Rome where Christianity came from.
I thought I already knew enough of my Catholic doctrines until I browsed this page. Wow! God bless you brothers in Christ.
I like how Trent explain things, really enlightening.
From libanon pray for us and my family
The caller sounded very polite and very fair with the arguments; I certainly learned something interesting! Thanks all - including George!
Greetings from New Zealand. Love listening to this from Downunder!🙏📿👍🔥
I look at this in steps. First step, if family or friend is ill I pray for them. Second step, if really serious, I reach out to others to pray form them too. I ask them to intercede in addition to me. Since the Lord is the God of the living, not the dead, I also ask saints to intercede too. Also, since Mary has a proven track record ... ie she asked the Lord for help and He turned water into wine. I ask her too. Cheers.
you say God is of the living not the dead but Mary is dead .........??
Thank you bros,your discussion on the intercessions of the saints really adds my little understanding of it.thats a question that fascinated inocent catholics to various protestant tenets here in the philippines.
Keep the good work up 🙏
Excellent jobs guys. You make me proud to be catholic and after theological studies in a protestant faculty you make me desire to study more and fully in a catholic one
C E. . 1 minute ago. . What is the use of doing "may procession of statues" it looks tradition to me. And I remember in every mass. The priest is reading the names of the people whose donated some money or things in the church. (Seems like a contradiction to what Jesus Gospel "so that your almsgiving may be in secret, and your Father, who sees in secret, will repay you.
Matthew 6:4 CPDV" 🤔. . .
Marco PELLEGRINI These guys don’t ever answer a question with scripture. They always deflect.
Jesus or apostles never prayed to Moses or Elijah
Come and test me 100% God will prevail and provide the truth!
I know some of us catholic find it offensive if we are asked to explain our faith. We should actually look at it as a chance to grow in holiness and closer to God. So instead of looking at it offensively flip it and look at it as a positive. And a chance to be a firmed in our beliefs . 💜 God Bless
Praise God. I think Catholics are offended not when asked to explain but when they are asked "Where in the Bible does it say that". We don't know every verse in the Bible. Praise God.
God bless you all!
thanks for explanation
If I have 10 minutes, 30min, 1hr to pray. I’d use every minute and every second. Every hour to pray to Jesus. He has my full attention and I’m sure that’s enough. It’s powerful enough. It’s the ultimate. I don’t care to pray to saints or Mary and I’m sure Jesus is fine with that. He is ok with me wanted to use my time and breath solely on him.
Jony Cruz The thing is we Catholics don’t actually pray to Mary or saints. We only literally ask them to pray for us after we say our prayer to God. We say the name of the saint, and then we say “pray for us”. I think all Christians believe that other people can pray for us.
@@kathespiel6185 what im saying is that's cool that you do that, but again if I have 10min or an hour. im cool. with talking only to Jesus. Thats good enough for me. or the father, or the god head in general.
jony cruz well said
Good!
As a Catholic you can.
@@kathespiel6185 Mary or saints are not omniscient; they don't hear any of the millions of prayers. The Bible has zero examples of anyone praying to someone deceased. We pray directly to God as taught by Jesus. "Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need." -Hebrews 4:16. We should not go to any created person or thing to go to God in prayer.
Luke 11:1-2 NET
Now Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he stopped, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples." [2] So he said to them, "When you pray, say: Father..."
can the Lord make this any easier for you?
why not do what Jesus taught?
The reference was to why catholic people pray to Mary? The Lord didn't instruct or practice this neither did any of the apostles.
Just another example of people teaching traditions of men as if it was the Word of God
See Matthew 15
Scott Weinmann I think Trent Horn explained that in this video
Catholicism is fake
@@jesusdiazzz6369 so what is true according to your thinking?
@@johnkatongo7517 It's not just my thinking.
ST. MOTHER TERESA OF CALCUTTA: “We create all kinds of difficulties in our prayer. Let us go back to what Jesus has taught - the intimate and simple prayer: ‘Our Father...’ Even little children can pray this.”
I would like to add that we are still living in the New Testament. It didn’t just end at revelations the scriptures are still unfolding and will continue to unfold until our Lord comes back.So we can’t say because we can’t say because it cannot be found necessarily in scripture that it’s automatically not true. Just a little food for thought. God bless y’all.
Thats crazy talk
@@philarevolutionarywarriorp8295 the bible didn't fall out of the sky you know the catholic church compiled it
I found this scripture that I never read before and to me it means St Peter is helping us even after his death:
“Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.”
2 Peter 1:15 KJV
Perhaps I’m mistaken I haven’t studied it any further from that initial revelation/interpretation.
I have to say that I’ve been made to walk towards the catholic faith in the last three months so strongly and full of signs that I will making my confirmation soon. I’ve been walking with Jesus since October 2017 and all I’ve done since that wonderful day when I surrendered my life to Christ has been through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit so I know this is the way God is taking me and to eliminate any doubt I’ve met many catholics so full of the Holy Spirit that there is no doubt in my mind and heart that God the Almighty, His Beloved Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are present in the Catholic Church as one God in perfect teinity. As for the saints I understand that they lived a life full of the Holy Spirit and love of our Lord Jesus so I find their lives and prayers fascinating. I’m still in the process of learning about how their intercession works but just to know the depths of their experience of Jesus is enough to want to imitate them.
This is the best argument on this subject I have yet heard.
Great work
Future St. Trent Horn for sure! Thank you for your insights and enlightenment as I thrive to understand my Church better. God Bless you and your family
After people die, they continue to worship God in spiritual Catholic Church at heaven...
what bible verse is that in? I'm seriously asking, thanks.
@@MichaelPeterson-rx9jd Trent Horn mentioned Revelation 5:8, but there's also Revelation 8:4, "prayers of the saints". I'm not sure if that's what you're asking.
Catholicism is fake. Nope lies.
@@cheryldeevencer2029 ?
How do you interprete the passage from your opinion?
I really appreciate how caring and respectfull both sides of this conversation were
Jesus said, Pray for each other... And thats what we are asking to the Saints, Pray for us...
But then they are dead!!
@@anandhvijaykumar667 then moses is also dead ...he is still sleeping....but is contrary...god decides who to get into heaven and those r the ones we call saints and not the eternally damed or sleeping beauties
@@anikathomasthaliath9718 John 3:13 No one has gone into heaven except for the one who came from heaven- The Son of Man.
It's simple every one is waiting for judgement, only on the day of the judgement the sheep's will be separated from the Goats, ie heaven and hells will be open. Until then what these guys do is not known for sure. I would not be surprised if they are sleeping beauties [Mathew 25: 1-13] waiting for the bridegroom to come.
@Samuel Livingstone Singh Amen bro
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
And inability to understand scripture
@indo
I will go again, you have shown to be dogmatic. Is this your response to a scripture??? I have no understanding. When i never explained it. The question will then be why are you uncomfortable with this scripture?? Shows that many if you just accept whatever the rcc tells you above all else
@@toyosioyejobi309 i agreed with u
@@indo3052 Wow i didn't know. I didn't know what you meant by inability to understand scripture
@@toyosioyejobi309 i was agreeing with your statement and added that understanding scripture is important and relevant to your statement. Wasnt talking about u
Wonderful answer! You guys make help praying to Saints easier understanding! Thanks 😊 I
My question is what group of people is the Bible referring to when it says to not talk to the dead? If it isn’t referring to everyone who has died, saved and unsaved alike, is it referring to only those who aren’t saved? If that is the case than can only the dead people who we know are saved for a fact be prayed to? As opposed to praying to, for example, a dead parent or relative who claimed to follow Christ?
This subject still confuses me. My Protestant background gets in the way. I asked a Protestant pastor about the "saints" in heaven being aware of us on Earth. He said yes, we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. However, "witnesses" not PARTICIPANTS. He said the saints in heaven don't intercede for us since they trust completely in God's will. IDK. I think they may actually intercede for us.
I LOVE this channel! I just bought that book by Jimmy Akins "The Fathers Knew Best" on my Kindle. I'm looking forward to reading it.
I am in a similar position, though I have concluded that it cant hurt. At the bare minimum its an earnest act of faith, and that is a good in itself.
I still mostly go with "our father"
YOU: He said the saints in heaven don't intercede for us since they trust completely in God's will.
ME: Then why does the Bible tells us to pray for one another? I trust in God's will too, but Scripture still tells us that intercessory prayer for someone has a purpose.
@@morelmaster excellent point!
Jack Aubrey The saints are most definitely aware of us here on earth. But if you think about it, what do witnesses that you call upon do in a court of law? They plead in favor of your case. Every single word in the Bible has a purpose so this may also be something to think about.
Please read:
Prayers are in many forms, it maybe through music/psalms, or recitation of verses or making your own prayer to someone... THE SOMEONE is the our main concern here... This someone may refer to GOD THE FATHER... ALSO TO MARY, OR TO SAINTS who has been Graced by God.
Now we argue more about this where we should dedicate our Prayers. For Protestants, TO God alone... which is actually biblical... To Catholics to one another which is also biblical. Why? let me explain....
St Agustine made a distinct definition of Prayers according to the teaching of the apostles and of the bible so everybody will not be confused...
Latria - PRAYING OR WORSHIPING TO GOD ALONE (non debatable).
Hyper DULIA - Prayer which is only for MARY MOTHER OF GOD. (Biblical)
Remember when ST. Gabriel visited Mary and exclaimed these words. "HAIL MARY, FULL OF GRACE...." Gabriel greeted Mary with gladness telling her the Good news and ASKING her to be the mother of Jesus... St. Gabriel was actually praying to MARY asking her if she will take the call.... AND MARY then say YES by saying... "I am the handmaid of the LORD, BE DONE TO ME according to your word?... After he heard these words the Angel left... If you involve mary in your prayers, you prayer is effective... That is why we use these verses in the bible as a form of PRAYER that projects God's grace bestowed unto Mary for our salvation. Mary was saved in a sublime manner that we need to glorify God for this wondrous gift to us.
DULIA - FOR SAINTS (Biblical)
The prayers of the righteous/blessed are effective... "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them..." these are few of the references in the bible and there are a lot to mention.
Remember how Jesus talk to Moses in the garden of Gethsemane... They are in a fellowship, pray to one another before Jesus sent to be crucified. Jesus is doing it why can't we? Isn't it Jesus wants us to live like him... so we imitate him.
Moreover praying to "dead saints" is OK... for the bible says: Our GOD is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him ALL ARE ALIVE. Saints are also blessed when they lived here on earth grace by God and even their being is separated body and soul... still their body parts perform miracles... Like the bones of ELisha in 2 Kings 13:21: He raised the dead by his bones... God's grace is overflowing through Elisha's bones.... same as with other saints... Look how the healing power over flowing from a handkerchief touch by Paul in Acts 19:12 "so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them."
You want your prayers to be effective? ASK FOR THEIR HELP. Through the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT we can commune with one another... Our prayers are heard... after all we are in one CHURCH.
Kings James Bible reader right here !!
Jesus is our older brother!We are blessed by the Father!
Can you please add the close caption feature? HOH here. Thanks!
Revelation 8:1-9 prayer of the Saints.
Saints were people that lived on earth once gifted by the lord ...we dont wordship them ...those that say that love jesus and reality dont love him because if they love him they wont talk shit about the blessed mother ...if u dont believe dont talk about her..we dont wordship her we pray because we respect and remember for being the mother of the lord jesus .....
He seems to be suggesting that when you're praying to a person in heaven, you're not praying to them but are just speaking to them, like to make a request. And because scripture isn't explicitly opposed to praying to people, like it's not explicitly opposed to praying to Jesus, it could be permissible.
I’m trying to understand this, and I would love someone to help me out. How do we know the saints are in heaven or marry? Doesn’t the Bible say we have to wait till judgement day then well all be resurrected? So isn’t no one but Jesus in heaven. Even all our dead relatives are still waiting for ressurrection, am I right? Can some one please explain this is the one thing I don’t understand and the only thing holding me back from a full conversion into Catholic Church. Please help me, may the triune God bless all my brothers and sisters in christ
Who decides whom to canonize as a saint? Who has the authority to admit people to heaven?
Only Christ, but the CC usurped this authority and are leading people away from Jesus.
Serious question: how do Catholics even know who is or is not in Heaven? Isn't that for God alone to judge/determine? What if someone they are praying to is actually in hell?
+rnwks2008 It's a very long and very serious process, and we believe that through it the Church is given the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Pjhshdjsk the bible says that we are all saints.
Ryan serious answer. How do you know an alive person you ask his prayers at that very moment is save or not?
In the Apostles' Creed, Christians profess their belief in the Communion of Saints. So what is the Communion of Saints? It’s a group of Christians having a common religious faith or the Church, the body of Christ. 1-Cor 12:27, “All of you are Christ’s body and each one is a member of it.” Since the Communion of Saints is the Body of Christ, it must include both the living and the dead. For if one is a member of Christ’s body during this life only, it would be of no value. This is why even death can not separate us from the love of God, see Rom 8:38, 39. In addition, since all the faithful, living and dead, form one body, the good of each is communicated to the others also in this life as well as in the next. There are many ways in which the faithful live in communion with one another but these are four:
1. The healthy help the sick.
When Jesus came to Gennesaret, the men of that place brought to him all the sick, and earnestly asked him that they may only touch the fringe of his garment; and as many as touched it were made well (See Mt 14:34-36). A great crowds came to Jesus, bringing with them the lame, the maimed, the blind, the dumb, and many others, and they put them at his feet, and he healed them (See Mt 15:30). In these passages, we see that those who were sick couldn’t come to Jesus on their own; it was the healthy who brought them to Jesus and he healed them. So by living in communion with one another, the strong can help the sick. See also Lk 9:37-43.
2. Those who have strong faith help those whose faith is weak or having no faith.
When Jesus returned to Capernaum, people came bringing to him a paralytic. But because the crowd gathered around him was so large that there was no longer room for them, not even around, near the door. So they removed the roof above him and let down the mat on which the paralytic lay. Jesus saw their faith so he healed the paralytic. See Mk 2:1-12. Note that Jesus healed the paralytic because he saw the faith of those who brought the paralytic to him, and that the paralytic did not ask for help. So by performing this miracle, Jesus had demonstrated that those who have strong faith can help those whose faith is weak or having no faith. See also Mt 15:21-28, A Woman’s Faith.
3. The living help the dead.
A Jewish official came, knelt before Jesus, and he said, Mt 9:18, “My daughter has just died; but come and place your hands on her, and she will live.” Jesus went into the girl’s room and took her hand and she got up. Here we see that the girl was dead, and obviously she couldn’t ask for help. It was her dad, the living, who prayed for her, the dead, and Jesus brought her back to life. See Mt 9:18, 19; 23-26.
4. The saints in heaven and the good angels are in communion with the living on earth.
Jesus concluded the parables of the lost sheep and the lost coin, Lk 15:7, 10, “ (7) I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance. (10) I tell you, in just the same way there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” Why did the saints in heaven and the angels of God rejoice over one sinner who repents if it’s not because they are in communion with us, sinners on earth, and that they intercede always for us before God? Thus, by concluding these parables in this way, Jesus clearly taught us that heaven and earth are in communion with each other.
Beside these four, there are other ways members of The Communion of Saints can communicate the good of each to the others, but, best of all, as members of the Body of Christ, each one of us is communicated to Jesus, the head, in his office as priest, prophet, and king.
For more details on The Communion of Saints please see Catechism of The Catholic Church 946-962.
@@TuyenPham-jm5eq thank you so much
Thank you. I am enlightened
@Gerald Tary II which part are you still confused?
@Gerald Tary II or perhaps, I should ask you, why are we wrong?
So, does Trent look more like Ben or more like Fred Savage?
Pls tell us what is main the reason why pray to the saints?
aga doo, the reasoning behind it is the scripture that Trent gave which is John 5:16 where it states “the prayers of a righteous man have a powerful effect” meaning if someone is truly in communion with Jesus Christ when that person prays his or her prayers have great effect. Now this doesn’t mean that we can’t or we don’t pray directly to Jesus Christ or God, of course we do. It’s just that when we pray to the saints we pray that they take our petitions or our pleas to Jesus himself or that they pray directly for us. If you want to give the argument that saints can’t hear us in heaven because they’re not omnipresent how God is well in revelations 5:8 it describes how saints are taking our petitions to God. Which is the prayers we send out to them. Like I said before though that doesn’t mean we don’t pray directly to God as well.
@@jesuspascual9080 you mean James 5:16, but it's clearly pertaining to the saints who are alive. And i don't know any scripture that proof you can pray to the dead people. This might be the one reason why Catholics has the tendency to worship the idols because of this. I believe this is not right in the sight of God.
Agreed. Well put. No compelling Scripture to support the idea that we should pray to those who are in heaven or ask them to pray for us.
@@jesuspascual9080 i think you're just assuming because it doesn't say in the bible you can't pray to the saints, in rev 5:8 24 elders are just holding our prayers, not interceding or mediating, we have but one mediator Jesus 1 Tim 2:5. This is one of the reasons why this will lead to idolatry, putting a created being in the place of Jesus.
@@abujog yes u r right but clearly read it...with the smoke is mingled with the prayers which rise to the altar
I love the saying that if Christ is the sun, Mary is the moon.
Mary is a created being, a sinner, whose Savior was Christ Himself. There is no comparison by any means. This is one of the aspects of Catholicism that is blasphemous.
@@sydb2848 Mary is full of Grace according to the Bible. One CANT have sin and be full of Grace.
@@sydb2848 she wasnt a sinner
This video actually helps me understand more as to why we shouldn't be praying/interceding to the saints. However, it does answer the question of why catholics do it. The caller clearly isn't adequately equipped to discuss the opposing issue, which is fine.
What about the prayer '' our Father in heaven hallowed be your name ........
what are catholic's perspectives on that .
"Our Father". "Our". When we pray we never pray alone.
That's a Catholic Prayer; given by the founder of the Catholic Church TO the Catholic Church.
You I am proud to be catholic no matter people say about Catholics! And if you say I'm going down there just because I'm catholic, I have evidence that Catholics are going to heaven!
Catholicism is fake
@@jesusdiazzz6369 fakes some last 2,000 years
Yes enjoy your Catholic life . I would advise that you ask God to releive u on truth
Pride is the biggest sin there is and was the first sin committed by Lucifer in heaven
I have always wondered why it is thought that Catholics pray to saints. Is it the we ask for intercession from those saints closest to GOD. Hence" Mother Mary"
Praise God. Well, it's probably because you can't see the saints and you are communicating via prayer. Technically speaking we do pray to Mary but we need to make the distinction that we do not worship or give anybody the glory which belongs to God alone. That doesn't mean Mary doesn't have glory of her own that is the Mother of God but her glory is less than God and rightfully it belongs to God who has bestowed this title. Same applies with the saints. Praise God.
And there are no athiests in foxholes.
Where is the NT scriptures to give examples of praying to Mary or other dead "saints"
@@whitevortex8323 But the Bible says your not to praise anyone other than God even if its to a lessor degree. How about a scripture where it says pray to saints or pray to Mary in any way shape or form as direct instructions from God. There's none.
Is there a chance I can get that book of the early Church Fathers? I'm sorry, I just don't know any means where to get one.
Yeah, I am looking for them as well pls help.me.thankyou.
Helloo, I haven't got one too. Idk where to find one huhu
@@phubinderdhillon6553 heey I think I found it!
@@pandachannel1759 very good. Can you help me with the information about it
@@phubinderdhillon6553 yees sure. Do you know the app Lazada? It's an online shopping outlet. You can search there "The Fathers Know Best" and they sell it there. Thou, there are 4 copies left HUHUHU I wish I can get one too but I don't have that much money because I'm still studying :(((
I hopee you can get a copyy 😊
A man was stuck in the mud on one side of a rushing river... he really, urgently needed to get to the other side. Being a religious man... albeit a bit vain perhaps... he humbled himself and prayed to God to immediately respond to his need. God did not answer. The man persisted and in time God responded...''I will bring you to the other side of the river''. The man was amazed and delighted believing God himself would do this for him. So he waited and waited but nothing happened. Later he fell asleep on the river bank. He awoke to someone calling to him... '' Hello, do you want a ride"... ''No, no said the man... God will bring me to the other side''... ''Ok said the boatman... good bye". Now the man continued to wait and even prayed again for God to respond as He promised. But he concluded God did not yet do what he asked for. He fell back asleep on the river bank. Then he awoke to the calling of the same boatman now returning from his work downriver. The boatman repeated his offer …. yet he refused his assistance again. The boatman departed. So the man prayed and prayed for God to respond to him.... and he wanted to know why God did not do what he promised. Suddenly God did make himself present to the man: "What is your problem" said God. The man complained to God that he did not fulfill his promise by bringing him to the other side of the great river. "Why God did you let me down? Why did you not take me to the other side?" Then God responded "Well... I did fulfill my promise to you!" "What do you mean God? Im still stuck here on this side of the river?''. "Yes I am well aware that you still remain there stuck in the mud''. "Why didn't you do something God?". "My son... I did just what you asked for... I arranged for you to get to the other side of the great river ... I sent that boatman twice to you but you refused both times... so what more do you want?"
So... it is apparent that God does what he wants, how he wants and when he wants. And it may not be what we expect at all. It seems we do create our own obstacles and even to the point that we no longer recognize the hand of God at work. If there is a real need to do something... all the solutions are already here.... by God's knowledge and power and provisions.
We must take those tools in hand and put them to work. Don't expect God to do our work for us. Its a family affair and we each must do our own job.... the many chores. Yes, God will take care of us... in his own way because it is the right way ... our way can have many errors and pitfalls. Again, use the tools God gives us to get by in this life.... and this means- get to work!
Underrated comment
The Bible itself is Catholic Tradition so there is no way that the Catholic Church is not biblical.
@b0ng Welcome home, brother. Will be praying for you
@b0ng Still if you're considering it, no matter the likelihood, then that's good enough. :)
What’s your response to this?
And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?
Isaiah 8:19
Well, Jesus said when you pray, pray like this...(The Lord's prayer)
Don't forget, for catholics, tradition trumps the Bible.
Trent, Sam Shamoun can host us he said, can we debate via voice call about your images doctrines and practices?
That would be great to watch 😊
We are surrounded by the saints of the past in a unique way. It’s not that the faithful who have gone before us are spectators to the race we run. Rather, it is a figurative representation and means that we ought to act as if they were in sight and cheering us on to the same victory in the life of faith that they obtained. We are to be inspired by the godly examples these saints set during their lives. These are those whose past lives of faith encourage others to live that way, too. That the cloud is referred to as “great” indicates that millions of believers have gone before us, each bearing witness to the life of faith we now live.
You are twisting Scripture here. To witness something means you have to see it firsthand.The fact that Hebrews 12:1 compares our faith journey to a race, which is witnessed by others, can only mean that it is happening in real time.
And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?
Exactly! I brought this up on another video and got no answers
Also the reason we have saints is to point to Jesus being the only perfect and holy and righteous man! He is the Almighty God who was there at the beginning, He is The Word, He is the Way, Truth, and Life! Glory to God!
Does not the bible say that does who profess Jesus as Lord shall have ETERNAL life? I don't get your point here. Saints are men and women who are filled with life in Jesus
In the book of revelations John kneels to pray to an angel. The angle corrects him and says do not pray to me, for we serve the same master
But,,,,,, Praying to is different than asking them to pray for us. Similar to a church elders laying hands on you and praying for you. Afterall the saints have made it to heaven, we aren't sure about the elders yet.
Just wondering if there is historical evidence for the practice of praying to the saints or Mary. Is it mentioned in the early Church fathers anywhere?
Trent said there are inscriptions in the catacombs asking the deceased to pray for us.
Yes! 😃 I wish I knew the exact quotes, but there are sayings from the very, very early church petitioning Mary to come to people’s aid (in very flowery language, I might add).
I believe that God understands me more than any else. He knows my questions before i even ask him. Even if I am sinner he loved me and came closest to me. So why I ask saints to pray for me if he understands me very well than human beings. Does the bible say hey sinners before you pray to me ask saints to pray for you that is better? please I need answer cause this doctrine is troubling me thanks.
God made us for love and fellowship, not with Him alone, but with our Family in Christ
In a dream, God commanded King Abimelech to ask Abraham to intercede for him: "For [Abraham] is a prophet
and he will pray for you, so you shall live" (Gen. 20:7). When the Lord is angry with Job's friends because
they did not speak rightly about God, he tells them, "Let my servant Job pray for you because I will accept
his [prayer], lest I make a terror on you" (Job 42:8).
@@rlburton Finally, I've read a comment that we are a family in Christ! Yes, because of our Covenant with God that establishes family relationship! People tend to be individualistic, but that is not really the case at all. Just look at the Bible from the broader perspective. Why do we have to be charitable, merciful, and loving to others? Because it is not just me, me, me me. It is first and foremost a communion with God, then communion with others, which is consistent with the two greatest commandments.
I was Baptist yet if one reads in Gen. 3 15 woman I understood to be Mary in Luke. I believed when Baptist Mary was the second eve this was me reading the KJB my interpretation. First woman disobey second obeyed God If the Bible is Holy inspired word of God which I believed I accepted it. I didn't understand at the time she was my spiritual Mother. All Catholic beliefs are in Catholic Bible which has 7 books in Old you don't have. Ask yourself who started your Church? Matthew 16 18 John 20 23 Jesus instituted confession giving authority to his apostles John 6 51 55 Jesus instituted I accepted Jesus is God he doesn't lie. This is Gods Holy inspired Book. I am closer to my Lord then every was. Mary ,Moses Abraham, and more lived and are living in Heaven that is why if we want we can pray to them intersession Rev. speaks of them receiving our prayers we speak on earth.
Dear sister, something is wrong with that analogy. So if Christ is new Adam, Mary must be a new Eve? Like they are husb and wife, and not mother and son. Christ is new Adam, and Church/ Bride of Christ is new Eve. Why? From pierced side of new Adam on the Cross bride church is born, just like first Eve was from Adam's rib in sleep. And our Mother is Jeruzalem, according to Saint Paul in Romans. Be blessed!
Dorta Jagić, St. Irenaeus was the disciple of John, John was at the foot of the cross when Jesus said to John behold your Mother, St. Irenaeus learn from John.
St. Irenaeus writing he mention Mary was the Art and the new Eve. Read his writing, look up early church father
Albert Garcia You’re slightly off. Irenaeus was a student of Polycarp, who was the student of John the apostle. Otherwise, you’re correct.
@@dortull The son is King and the mother is the Queen.
@@dortull i dont believe that Catholic theologians mess up... If that is what you are saying?
The miracle at the wedding at Cana (John 2:1-11) is an example of Mary's meditation and influence in heaven. She did not replace Jesus's role as primary mediator but she performed secondary meditation in behalf of the group, still through Jesus. Jesus was clear "My hour has not yet come." yet Mary gave the instruction and what did Jesus do?
What is the significance of the torn veil after Jesus died? Why does the bible on multiple occasions encourage us to pray for each other if we can all pray to the "more righteous" saints in heaven whose prayers are more effective? We should all pray to the saints and forget praying for each other. Don't you think?
But to pray for each other is an act of love, it exercises our faith and our charity. It is true also that usually the ones of us closer to God (i.e the ones with purer souls and less sins) that pray for the sinners, and not the other way around.
As a life-long protestant, I am trying to understand the veneration of the Saints and of Mary. To understand their role and position. So far regarding praying to the Saints and to Mary, my understanding basically boils down to this type of prayer is the rough equivalent of the prayer chain my mom used to be a part of. Someone would ask someone to pray for whatever reason there was, then that person would pass on the prayer request to the next person in the prayer chain until the prayer made the circle back to the originator. So then what's the difference between asking one (or several) of the saints to pray for us and asking Mrs. Johansson and the other ladies in the ladie's guild to pray for us? I could be wrong but that's how I'm understanding it.
How close am I?
It’s pretty similar, we often receive assistance from other members in the mystical body of Christ when they intercede for us by petitioning God on our behalf, just like your mothers prayer chain.
The difference with asking the saints to pray for us is that the scriptures tell us both that the prayer of a righteous man has power (James 5:16), and that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1 - the saints in heaven) who care about us and pray for us since they’ve been perfected in the virtue of charity since nothing imperfect can enter into the presence of God in heaven.
In short, the main difference is the efficacy of the prayer that’s given to God.
The Lord made us with the need for community, and not even death can separate us from one another because of his grace, Glory be to Jesus Christ!
Why would we ask them to pray to Jesus when we can go directly to Christ ourselves. Why take the longer route?
It's synonymous to asking for a friend to pray for you. The advantage here is that while you are sometimes busy doing other things (because you cannot pray for yourself 24/7) someone has you covered on those other times.
Mary and the saints make it more better since it's all what they do now in heaven as they are in united glory with God for all eternity.
@@kevinroque5374 that's not biblical tho, it goes too far when they say prayers such as Mary save us or forgive us, that's straight blasphemy.
@@azelenovic3005 You seem misunderstood. There hasn't ever been any wording of "save us" or "forgive us" in the prayers to Mary and the saints; there's only "pray for us".
As for being "not biblical" I'll just point out what Trent Horn explained 5:00 onwards in the video. Sure, it's not explicitly stated but praying to Mary and the saints follow key biblical implications as stated in the video (i.e. living creatures in heaven who pray to God at Revelation 5:8 and the "cloud of witnesses" stated in Hebrews 12:1-2 where the author awknowledges a perseverance for the saints and still "while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus").
@@kevinroque5374 Praying to supposed Dead Saints is necromancy, which God clearly forbids in the Bible. It's a sin!!!!!!
www.gotquestions.org/Bible-necromancy.html
@@crod6431 Necromancy communicates to the dead that are not (or not yet) in heaven. Praying for intercession communicates to the saints who are now living eternally in heaven. Learn the difference.
Saints are dead to us who still dwell the earth but they are now alive in Christ given that they are now with Him in heaven. They are found in scripture (Revelation 5:8 & Hebrews 12:1-2).
There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,
Did Jesus not say that those in Heaven are alive?
That’s how he justified the afterlife to the Saduccees. God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And God is the God of the living, not the dead.
@@Olecranonymous I'd like to know where exactly Jesus said that those in heaven are alive. He was not justifying "the afterlife" to the Saducees, he was justifying the resurrection that will occur in the future. The rest of the verse is "...for to him all are alive." When you read the preceding verses, it is clear that the God of the living refers to the resurrection to come. Psalm 6:5 "For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?"
I've yet to receive an answer from Catholics on this: can sin be confessed to those in heaven, since they hear our prayers & are more alive than us?
In theory, sure you could confess your sins to a saint in heaven. I can confess my sins to my friend on earth too. But they don’t have authority to absolve your sins.
I thought Jimmy said he was Church of CHRIST. Steve Ray said he was Baptist. Jimmy also said he was Presbyterian
The words says be not just a hearer of the Word but a doer. Jesus said whatever you ask the Father in my name he will do that your joy might be full.
Paul in his letters prayed to Father. In Acts the believers prayed to the Lord God.
No where does it say any different.
The word is clear to avoid idol worship which can be praying to someone else and not God.
True Chris...its not complicated really.
Acts 14:12-15New International Version (NIV)
12 Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker. 13 The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.
14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: 15 “Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them.
Where does the Bible say to pray to saints?
***** I watched the PBS documentary Secrets of The Vatican and man, I do not know about that organization. Some of their rituals are very questionable...I do not think they are of God at all. Also the apostle Paul talks about false teachers saying it is forbidden to be married and I believe this practice is a major cause of all the pedophilia that is happening in the organization.
actually, forbidding t obe married is a false doctrine, because Paul is referring to the teachings of the heretics that marriage is a sin. In fact, in the Catholic Church, marriage is a sacrament. For the priests, they were the people who were following the examples of Christ, Paul and other unnamed biblical characters that were celibate.
Chris Oliver Dela Cruz why do Catholics not allow their priest to marry?
It's a different case though. These are the people who committed to life to celibacy for Jesus Christ in the same way that some other apostles and Jesus Christ are celibate. In fact, there were people in the Book of Revelations that remained celibate all throughout their lives and these people are explicitly stated in Revelation 14:4.
OK, let me just give you an example. Suppose you lived during the time of the apostles, and obviously there would be apostles who remained celibate all the way. Would you consider that to be a sin, or would you support them and tell them to continue to their ministry and their vow?
If a priest is married, then he is simply not following the vow that made him a priest. There is basically no teaching in the Catholic Church that says marrying is a sin. The verse that Pau quotes were about the gnostics, especially the Donatists, who claimed that Jesus did not have a physical body because, for them, everything physical is sinful, that having a marriage is a sin, and that eating foods are considered a sin. That is what biblical scholars and theologians believed, and even non-catholic theologians held to this interpretation.
Trivia: Eastern Catholic Priests are allowed to have a wife, but if a priest entered to his vow of priesthood without having a wife, then that person is to maintain that vow of celibacy. Even Catholic Converts who were former pastors that had been married are allowed to become priests, but if they entered the priesthood while not being married, then they should maintain the vow of celibacy.
What's the sense of having such a vow if that vow is to be broken?
So on this question I’ve heard people mention that Jesus Spoke with Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration. That he is the God of the living and not the dead (speaking of being the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac).
My question is this, if Samuel, who we believe was a faithful prophet (at least as so far as scripture is concerned), is not dead, why was it wrong (deadly in fact) for Saul to speak to him?
I feel by praying to other brothers in heaven is somewhat disrespecting gods power. god can hear if you pray to saints and not to him. if you truly believe God is the all powerful you must believe that my friends .
Prayin too saints is like asking an uncle for favor about asking my dad something . God is the most comprehensive and understanding more then any human who ever existed in heaven or earth . He is the most powerful and perfect . So why ask a saint ? I just never understood that since I was a kid
@@kristinscandora6064 in my view .if jesus said .to pray to saints or that sins can be forgiven by a person or that the correct way to baptism is while baby's etc.. , I would follow those ."but" jesus thought us that to pray to the father (god) .that sins can and will only be forgiven by God and that baptism(reborn) should be done as adults (he gave the example ,jesus wasn't baptized as baby or Scriptures would of said so) therefore I believe on what Bible teaches us. Everything outside of the Bible I do not follow because I'm Christian.
Tec Tec but if those that died in the faith and are in heaven, through Christ, aren’t they still “with us,” in spirit? Or does a veil exist between the living and the dead?
@@andrewmedina7588 bible doesn't say that Christ disciples or any holy men are with us in spirit . However It says that God the son and holy spirit are . I m really devoted to messages from jesus it' makes believe that not only did he come to save human kind but also to explain in more depth about the commandments . Have found many verses supporting second commandment I can share them with you if you like
Tec Tec, I would ask you to read revelations 5:8 and what that is describing. It is describing the saints taking our prayers directly to God. It is pretty astonishing to me how someone can feel it is right to ask they’re friend or pastor or relative to pray for them but they feel unsure about praying to those who are in heaven and are already in the presence of God himself. It’s somewhat counterintuitive. Like I said we don’t just pray to saints. We also pray directly to Jesus himself.
I don't agree with the presumption that dead saints are aware of whats going on in earth. They are not God, they cannot hear what we pray in the secret, as in fact Jesus taught us to pray
Hebrews 12 1-2 is used to support the notion that saints in heaven are indeed around us and therefore are aware of what we say and do.
@@snicketysnickerdoodle8484 I think then that Catholics are reading that verse out of context. When the writer says "since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses" the writer means that we should be encouraged and "run the race that is set before us". Nowhere, absolutely nowhere, does it say dead saints are awhere of what is going on in earth. Furthermore, it certainly does not say to pray for them. In Matthew chapter 6 Jesus says "In this manner, therefore, pray:
Our Father in heaven, Hallowed by thy name...". Should we substitute the name of a saint into this prayer? Can we pray this prayer to a saint? The answer is no.
I agree. We only pray to God our father.
Asking someone to pray for you is not replacing God. Asking my neighbor on earth or in heaven to pray for me is not replacing God. The cloud of witnesses in Hebrews follows after he lists a bunch of Old Testament prophets and their great feats. He’s irrefutably talking about those who have gone before us as a cloud of witnesses. That being said when Catholics use the word pray they do not mean worship. In the context of “praying” to saints they utilize an older English definition meaning to ask.
@@Consolesk8r yes,even the truth of praying to those saints enrolled in heaven is in Hebrews 12:22-23 where it says the the spirit of the righteous men made perfect again the Bible indicates in James 5:16 that the prayer of a righteous man is acceptable to God then we see in revelation 5:8 the Saints in heaven holding on prayers of all saints (presumably on earth because the players of incense starts on earth see Luke1:9 )for them to offer unto God then the "cloud "of Hebrews12:1 call to mind of the cloud which was instructing the Israelites on the way to canaan it reminds me that the Saints in heaven are able to see our suffering as Christians the same way the cloud of exodus observed the movement of Israelites. Peace
Essentially he is saying praying to the saints for intercession is going to be more impactful than praying directly to Jesus because the saints are more righteous than we are.
C E. . 1 minute ago. . What is the use of doing "may procession of statues" it looks tradition to me. And I remember in every mass. The priest is reading the names of the people whose donated some money or things in the church. (Seems like a contradiction to what Jesus Gospel "so that your almsgiving may be in secret, and your Father, who sees in secret, will repay you.
Matthew 6:4 CPDV" 🤔. . .
Only problem the saints are not aware what’s going on here
This is not what Scripture indicates. Hebrews 12:1 says, "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us." How can the Saints in Heaven be witnesses of us unless they are aware of us???
john mizak that’s not saying they are watching us. That’s means they are mentors that ran the race of faith
@@billchiburis8654
Nope, you are giving the word "witness" a different meaning than what it actually means. To "witness" something means the same today as it did when Hebrews was written. Stop twisting Scripture to try to disprove the CC, it won't work.
john mizak actually you are. Only God is omnipresent
@@billchiburis8654
Do you claim to know what Heaven is going to be like? Are you putting limits on God's power? Who are you to say that God cannot allow the Saints in Heaven to hear prayers in some way, or to witness us in some way?
Scripture clearly indicates in Hebrews that the Saints are "witnessing" us running the race. The burden of proof is on you to show that the author of Hebrews used the wrong word, and didn't mean what he wrote. Good luck with that.
Matthew 17: 3And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Jesus spoke to Moses and Elias, therefore we can also speak to Moses and Elias, at this very moment. It is good to do all that Jesus Christ does.
Peter, wanted to erect each a Tabernacle to honor both Moses and Elias, Therefore we also can honor Moses and Elias or any Saint. (food for thought) It is good to be Catholic. Amen
Amen brother.
Timmy, Hmmmm lets see once again how Scripture Proves you wrong again, and again. Yikes:
1 Peter 2: 21For unto this are you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving you an example that you should follow his steps.
Timmy, Jesus Christ our EXAMPLE that we follow His Steps, and one of His steps is that if He can speak to Moses and Elias, SO CAN WE. Amen
I Corinthians 11:1 BE ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.
Timmy, St. Paul states that we Must follow Christ, it obviously means that Jesus Christ is our example, that we should do whatever He Does.
+Martin Sandoval you're right I will imitate Christ!! And Speak (prayer) to those who have reached heaven !
he would hv explained much more easily and less complicated if jesus wanted us to pray to saints.
TTX If I asked you to pray to God for me can you???
TTX, in order for me to ask you to pray for me, it is I who came praying to you, to pray for me, to do this, this is not at all in a worship sense of prayer.
Jesus Christ said in James James 5: 16
16Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.
I’m fine with having asking the saints to pray for us
I just feel very uneasy with a lot of the prayers I hear
Instead of asking for intercession i hear prayer like
“St Joseph give me your strength
Or Mother Mary heal me”
That seems idolatrous to me
Yea as a Catholic I agree, you can ask for them to pray for specific things but saying “give me your strength” just seems like something you should only ask God for
Catholic answers to catholic questions, how in the world then will u ever get out of this darkness?
And you know better, right? :)
@@freda7961 maybe
@@johnarevalo3450 Right
“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.
@CodingCrusader1095 ahah
That has nothing to do with saints
@@johsiantorres8495 Yes because they are dead. Praying to anyone/thing other than God is idolatry. But u suppress the truth truth in your unrighteous.
U rather worship the creation rather than the Creator and turn the truth of God into a lie.
@@smartrecords4881 no. Thats not idolatry.....
Hebrews 7:25New King James Version (NKJV)
25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Why do we need to pray to the saints when we have Jesus praying for us
+AZtrueflow18 Your issue is a mis-understanding of the word "pray". To pray is to ask. We ask the holy ones that are close to God to join in with us.
well, why do we need to ask other people to pray for us when we have Jesus praying for us?
Interpretations of the saints vary.
For example, Protestant interpretations vary according to various perceptions of time before or after death. But some Roman Catholics interpret I Corinthians 6:2-3 in regards to the Saints in Heaven.
"Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!"
Prayer of the Saints in Heaven is Biblical. 🙏
1st Timothy 2:5
Proud being Catholic..
Religion cannot save us. Relationship to God. And thru His Son & The Lord The Savior Jesus Christ.
The fact that I do not see anyone praying to humans, saints, or apostle's in the Bible is room enough for me to not do so.
Maybe you should read your bible again..
etrnlygr8tful or you could just tell me if I'm wrong....
Did you watch the video?
TheThoughtAssassin sure did...
Nobody in the Bible has ever prayed to anyone but GOD,and those who prayed to pagan idols like the calf perished and never made it to the promise land.Think it would profit a man to just pray to GOD who is Christ.He will not bust our chops for doing that,but if there is a chance that praying to some saint could hinder my salvation well it's quite clear what I would do.The angels before lot said do not pray to them,as well as the apostles said the same after healing people,they said pray to GOD.For He is the one who hath done this and Ye faith in Him.Now the Jews of old prayed to Moses and that was wrong too.We can pray for others,We simply ask the one in Charge who can make these things happen,and that is Christ.When you want a raise at work do you not go to the Boss?And would I not pray to Christ I get the Job as well?I don't even know Mary Paul or Matt,and they know me not.So I will pray to the ONE who does know me and can hear me as well as do all things.Why ask the middle man,that get's you nowhere and ends up costing you something with no return.
What about the book of Tobit when Raphael said god heard our prayers
I don't get how saints in heaven are ''more righteous than us''. Does that not suppose an element of self- or added righteousness upon the righteousness imputed on us through Christ.
I believe the meaning of "more righteous than us for being in heaven is", they made it, so they are de facto more righteous than us still here on earth. Complicated stuff all this
Is there anyone in heaven except the father and the son?? John 3:12
As a quick answer, they are "just men made perfect," the Bible says. There are other verses to support this as well.
@@spiffinz that's precisely my point, the "made it" implies an element of us doing things (works) of righteousness that'll get us into heaven, which is contrary to scripture (ref Eph 2v 8-9).
My point is that it's not our works that get us 'worthy' of heaven or give us righteousness, but rather that as those who through Faith in Christ have been made righteous, our predisposition shifts towards good works rather than evil works, whether here on earth or in heaven
Psalm 115:4-8
4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Exodus 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Proverbs 16:6
By mercy and truth iniquity is purged : and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.
And ...
Alex Emerson The intercession of fellow Christians-which is what the saints in heaven are-also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should intercede: “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:1-4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something “good and pleasing to God,” not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.
@@georgeibrahim7945 Can you elaborate this passage. I need some ideas about this
Do not be afraid, and do not be disturbed. From the time when I caused you to listen, I also announced it. You are my witnesses. Is there another God beside me, also a Maker, whom I have not known?
Isaiah 44:8 CPDV
And up to Isaiah 44:8-20. Thank you. God bless
Old Testament .. Mary and the saints weren't there. Haha
Beautiful and glorious Scriptures
so this means that aside from Jesus whom we are calling to for our prayers and whom we ask for prayers, there are also someotheres in the same power to Jesus that we can ask prayers? isn't it a degrading to the power of Jesus' holy name to ask for somebody aside from God, Himself??
+I am Shiela you ask your friends and families to pray for you, right? so is it degrading to the power of Jesus that they are praying to God for you and your successes in life?
The Bible is clear about us not seeking the dead among'st the living...
"Do not defile yourselves by turning to mediums or to those who consult the spirits of the dead. I am the LORD your God
Aren't the apostles prophets and saints dead? Why would we be asking of them anything in our prayers? This is borderline sorcery to ask of anything from the dead in prayer...I don't compare this at all with asking a person who is living to pray for you...
I am Shiela No they are not at the same power as Jesus. they are only intercessors. If you ask your friends and family to pray for you, it's something like that. The difference is these people are in heaven with God and we all know that the prayers of the righteous are powerful
I don't tend to think of asking Jesus for prayers but rather to have my prayers answered. There are two types of saints recognized by the church, all of the believers and those who are in union with God through physical death and eternal rebirth; who are seen as righteous and having interceded for someone in terms of a miracle. The difference between God and the saint (who is in full union with God) is that, whereas God answers prayers, the saint prays for a person's prayers to be answered. Thus, we do not believe that the saint has divine power, but rather respected influence.
Matt Redek - Well said!
Hebrews 7:23-25 "And the others who became priests were numerous, because death prevented them from continuing in office, 24 but he holds his priesthood permanently since he lives forever. 25 So he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them."
Btw nowhere are we told to pray to dead saints, if in the Old Testament they never have done this with the previous priests, how does this somehow change in the New Testament (even though the New Testament lacks anything of this nature as well)? When we ask for others to intercede for us, we don't pray to the living, so how can the dead hear us? Do you ask God for him to connect both you and the "one resting on the lord"? No one has risen from the dead but Jesus who is the first one to receive the fruits and a glorified body, and even assuming that dead saints are perfectly glorified before their resurrection, however much they could be glorified or exalted, they will always pale in comparison to Christ, and the Holy Spirit, which is why instead ask for the Holy Spirit to intercede for you and ask for the gift of tongues (which will be infinitely more beneficial than all of the dead saints combined), plus God is jealous and he says to hate others in comparison to how much we should love him.
Very well said...
Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 (KJV) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
alkitab.app/v/a9c69add7c8b
They believe that when you die, you will immediately go to Heaven which is not true..
They pray to the saints, When cornelius bow down and prayed to Peter, peter insisted for only God should be bowed and prayed not him. How much more that Peter is now dead, they still pray for him and other saints
@@jaymikobragas7681 Like Christ said in Mark 7:13, They prefer their man made traditions over the word of God, they only care for their Pope and not God himself and his truth
@@househunterhomes Really? Of all the books in the Bible, you'd quote Ecclesiastes wherein the nature of afterlife has not yet been clearly and completely revealed? Truth about life after death then was being questioned in Ecclesiastes, the fullness of the answer would only come through the light of the New Covenant. What has been revealed thru Qoheleth at the time was very much limited. The truth and knowledge about the afterlife was being revealed in the Old Testament in a gradual manner. You're focusing on the wrong things in Ecclesiastes.
I thought the scripture about not being God of the dead was Matthew 22 not Mark
Prayer is reserved for deity ONLY, period!!!
You’re right brother. Don’t ask for your friends or loved ones to pray for you. God bless 😆
I don’t see any punctuation, was that a question? If yes then my answer is yes! So...?
I’m pretty confident u appreciate the difference between praying TO and praying FOR?!!
I will continue asking my friends and loved ones to pray for me coz the bible tells me so. The bible also tells me that to pray to anyone but God is idolatory, so u should know what to do with all those your prayers to Mary
Ok, so Find me, one place in the Bible, that says to pray to or through saints. IT DOESNT! see, you guys make things up. Sorry, I'm a Christian, not a catholic . Change my mind
@@melindaanne6036 lol. Ok I'll repeat my request: show me, in the bible, where it says to pray to saints. It doesn't, and your tiptoeing around the question
@@melindaanne6036 also, it was the apochropha, and the books weren't accurate. Secondly, it wasn't Martin Luther. My grandfather was a PASTOR and he knows this stuff. Get your facts right before pointing fingers
@@melindaanne6036 thx for responding. Ok, first off, I am not angry, and I do not HATE anyone. Lol, thanks. Ok thanks for the link, I checked it out. Interesting. It sounds like u are being the person being one-sided. Try to see my point of view and I will try to see yours. Lol. All of you catholics always tiptoe around the question. (I mean u already avoided it twice)
Where in the bible does it say to pray to statues? Answer: it. Doesn't. I'm sorry and I'm not pointing fingers, but until u can show me, i will stick to my beliefs. Thanks. God bless u as well. No hate ;)
@@melindaanne6036 also, I think its quite wrong, saying "Martin Luther's bible" when he didn't ADD or even WRITE any of it! "Chosen men who were inspired by the Holy spirit" wrote it. (Shorter chatechism)
I dont know why u guys think it's right to pray to saints. It's like ur saying that God cant answer your prayers like hes 'too busy' or something. Think about it. Doesn't your viewpoint seem skewed?
@@melindaanne6036 alright then. Lol, jeez cool down. Lol. Soooooo, if your not praying to or through saints? What about mary? Please explain to me why you need to pray to or through Mary to talk to God. Lol. Again, it's like your saying hes now omnipotent enough to hear your prayers. You pray through Jesus who mediates for us through his death on the cross. I dont know why u bring Mary into this. Anyways, pls answer because I think this comment section is quite interesting and that maybe I could change your mindset
It is not considered necromancy?
No, because they are non dead.
I hope to find an answer to a lingering question. Which is two fold. 1) Thousands of people at one time pray to Mary, does this not deify her? 2) The argument is that a Saint in heaven is more righteous, so them praying for me who is less righteous is more powerful. OK so why pray to St Augustus if St Peter (the apostle) is more righteous, why pray to St Peter if John the Baptist is more righteous and above them Moses is more righteous and Abraham is more righteous so logic follow you will ask the most righteous and Jesus is most righteous so does logic then not follow to pray to Him directly to be consistent in your view? But by praying to Mary does Catholics (on this logic) not then place Mary as more righteous than all the Saints and even Jesus as they pray to the one whose prayer will be most powerful
Saints and angels live outside of time. And the author of Hebrews writes that we have a great cloud of witnesses. Doesn’t that mean we have fellow brothers and sisters watching our every moments? Also the immortal life that they have attained could be called deifying someone who was once mortal.
@@elijahyoung11 Cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 12:1 and it refers to the people discussed in Hebrews 11. Just as God had a cloud to lead the Israelites to stay on the path he wants, so God gave us a cloud (cloud of witnesses) to lead us in our sojourn. Give me a single example of any person in the new Testament even mentioning the name of one deceased other for the example to follow from how they lived. Also why pray to St Helena if St Paul is more righteous and while at it why pray to Paul if St Moses is more righteous and while at it why pray to St Moses if Jesus is the most righteous (Jesus is called literally Jesus the righteous), His prayer will avail much more than all the saints added together. Not once did anyone approach Jesus through his mother, even after Jesus' resurrection. Going to John 3 is before his ministry started and before his baptism etc and he put Mary on same level as all who do God's will in Matthew 12:50 (he actually even mentions her last).
The Bible states that Jesus Christ intercedes for us..they give straw man arguments
Greg Zeno its definitely wrong to pray to anyone but the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ. What these men are saying is strictly a violation of scripture and horrible interpretation. The body of Christ should not be practicing praying to anyone that's dead. It's a practice of necromancy, its idolatry and truthfully these are familiar spirits/demons they are communicating with. Like you said only Jesus only intercedes for us. God bless
@@jesusislife2837 If I pray for you or any brother here on earth am I not interceding on your behalf to God. And is not our God the God of the Living. As Jesus quotes Exodus in a dispute with the Sadduses "I Am the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob". Our brethren in heaven in being united to God are more alive then we are here below.
Praying to the Saints is not biblical, We already have a high Priest that can make intercession for us which is Jesus, why pray to man? This is a man made idea, we are not to develop any man made logic. So Mary is the Mother of God and by praying to Mary we will have our request answered better because she is above God? Absurd and wrong. Catholics invent and added to the bible which we are told not to do. Our prayers have to be addressed to Jesus as he is the only one who died for our sins. Please Mormons are not Christians they are a cult.....do use Mormons as an example. You are in error............... in praying to saints, they are all man who believed in Christ that's all. They have no power until Christ establish his kingdom on earth.
Sharon Newman read 1 Timothy chapter 2 no where does it state to ask saints to pray for us or intercede for us. It tells us to pray and pray for others but the key point is it states that Jesus is the only mediator. How than can Mary or saints be one? Hebrews 7:25 states Jesus lives to intercede for us. I'm hard pressed to really agree with asking saints or Mary to intercede for us if the Bible clearly shows only Jesus intercedes for us.
Sharon Newman if you have something to ask of God, why take a detour and go through someone else? why not go to God directly? just my 2 cents
Joseph Ho Whoa. Who said that Mary is above God? Speaking as a devout Catholic, no one teaches that.
And Bible alone is not biblical. "Although I have much to write to you, I do not intend to use paper and ink. Instead, I hope to visit you and speak face to face so that our joy may be complete." 2 John 2:12 Which is also in alignment with St. Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians, "stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours." 2 Thess 2:15
Why then do u go to ur pastor or any other person to pray for you if they's Jesus
@@jd15374 " It tells us to pray and pray for others" That is what we asks the Saints to do - pray for us.. an dover intercessions.... Jesus is the Mediator, he is the Vine, we are the branches... he wants us to all be part of the community of his body.