THE KHAN AND THE GHOST OF PROSPERO
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2020
- Hey all, Wolf Lord Rho here,
Today we are discussing, why Jaghatai Khan, Primarch of the White Scars... Felt the need to visit the ruins of Prospero, and the answers he found there.
Spoiler Warning the events we are discussing are from the Horus Hersey novel "Scars" by Chris Wraight. As always I really recommend you read the novel for yourself first, as thats the best way to enjoy the lore, for yourself! Not only that, we help to support the great Games Workshop and Black Library. Because without them we don't have this amazing lore to discuss. Link: www.blacklibrary.com/the-horu...
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Jaghatai: YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! It was said that you would destroy the Warp, not join it; bring balance to the galaxy, not leave it in darkness. You were my brother, Magnus. I loved you.
Magnus: DO. NOT. WANT!
lol star wars.. obiwan to anakin
All is dust
Jaghatai had the high ground
Magnus and anakin did nothing wrong.
“You where my friend.” A manly tear was shed.
The Khan chose the Emperor because he thought it to be the best option for the mankind as a whole, and he valued the human race as a whole and fought for it. THat is why he mourned the shattered dreams of the imperium.
as a thousand sons player i hope its the Khan that either ends or saves magnus as he is
Amen
I'm sure it will be. They weren't friends but they respected each other and the Khan never agreed with Russ destroying Prospero.
Why are you a Thousand Sons player?
No, it needs to be Russ that ends or redeems Magnus.
Would also be a great lore reason for Russ disappearing for 10 millenia.
@@chrisbennett6236 Weren't friends ? The fuck. The Khan literally said "you were my friend".
Khan: Magnus....are you here?
Magnus shard: Good question not sure never done this before can you hear me?
Khan: of course I can hear you.
Magnus shard: I am afraid I rather made a mess of things, did you go to terra?
Khan: no uhm I change my mind stuff happened...I lost my best friend.
Magnus shard: so sorry to hear it.
K: Can you turn your camera on, Magnus?
M: It's not on? I can see you fine.
K: Yeah, but that's my camera.
that sounds familiar....
What is this referencing?
@@h.walker1332 th-cam.com/video/Al5lzSIz24w/w-d-xo.html good omens
@@h.walker1332 The last bit reminds me of that show "good omens" tv series, when the angel, Aziraphale, is sitting at a table with the demon, Crowley, saying that he lost his best friend (being Crowley) and Crowley responded that he is sorry, without understanding that he is, in fact, the best friend
Such a tragic fall. It must've weighed heavily on Magnus after finding out what his done basically ruined everything the Big E had in mind and helped plunged the Imperium into what it is today. And at his weakest, he was basically swayed to the forces of chaos in his shattered state.
No, he made a deal with Chaos when he got his Legion so it could be saved from the mutations...
I will say what I always have said regarding Jaghatai Khan.
"The difference between Jaghatai and Russ is that Russ pretend to be a savage Viking warlord when in fact he is a loyal *Master of war* , while Jaghatai *IS* a savage that knows *Mastery of war* "
this comes with all the positives and negatives of being more of a "savage".
Jaghatai cares about things in a simple yet clear way, he is way more in touch with himself spiritually and mentally than any other primarch and is struggle lies in what to him feels logical, he thinks simple, he acts simple, he is simple but don't let that make you think he is simply a savage, he understands every inch of a starship yet he will talk man to man to the lowliest of his chain of command, he values direct talk as he is confident in his ability to lead without needing differentiation of rank.
he can dismantle a bolter blindfolded yet he will attend shamanistic rituals not because he knows exactly what they do, or traditionalism but instead because he believes in his storm callers guidance and wisdom.
when he saw the civil war break out he fleed and avoided sides, and much to his credit he was honest about every wrong decision he ever made even humbling himself with Russ when he came back after having his fleet ravaged. he may even be one of the few primarchs with social skills when you start to look behind this blunt simple character that he makes himself out to be.
Jaghatai Khan is a "savage", and that's why people like him.
Yes, this right here...
So very true.
The nobel savage meme is such an over done trope.
Plus he is a savage, and greatest of the primarchs when it comes to trash talk.
Wow eh this is soon my second most liket post ever...I did not anticipate that...thanks I guess?!
Jagathai started circling the fallen Magnus. Hand on the hilt of his sword, when he suddenly screams "It's over Magnus, I have the high ground"
@Chaos Undivided It only works if you announce you have it
To comment on Magnus and his 'tragedy'. I've always thought he was truly a tragic character in the classic greek sense, where he carried the source of his downfall with him. There are several points in his story where if he had made another decision his whole story would have ended up change. But he just couldn't...
Not the more modern sense meaning sorrowful story where it was out of his control.
that is the tragedy of the great Magnus, despite doing what he thought was for the best, his best was just a betrayal thrust upon him by outside sources
Magnus was trying to help, trying to bring peace before war broke out but he makes mistakes.
Now Russ isn't blameless here, he blindly followed orders and carried out his hate of Magnus. I know he was given orders but to never question it, to never try to talk to Magnus, never try to read the situation. That's all on him. Magnus was willing to talk but he was not willing to destroy two legions. Russ flat out didn't care and still thinks he was right, despite several in his inner circle believed it was unnecessary.
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Really hate that they made Magnus fully embrace chaos.
We all do
but like how russ been puppeted by horus
what ever happened to janus?
Which he has always done in the lore.
Brian Schultz
He eventually died, presumably.
Khan became my favourite after he battled the Greater Demon of Slaanesh. This just cements it further. After his sword dance on the Ork strong hold and his feats against the Greater Demon without any prior knowledge of what a Greater Demon is, I think his power scaling can be very high up on the Primarch rankings regarding Battle Power.
Guilliman is a mary sue personified
Do you mean in Spear of Heaven? That was a Slaaneshi greater daemon. Still awesome.
Guilliman isn't a Mary Sue, he isn't as good a fighter as many of his brothers, he often chooses wrongly, as Sanguinius has pointed out.
He is stumbling around the issues with the Ecclesiarchy. He can't give gratitude for saints saving his bacon against Mortarion.
Guilliman is flawed, but keeps trying.
@@kingbaldwiniv5409 Corrected, thanks man.
@Joseph Stalin Because he keeps bitxh slappinh enemies he was supposed to not to.
Christ Wreight has made me love the white scars, scars and path of heaven are among my favorite heresy novels.
I agree with every word of that.
Never really thought of them before, being a fan of Space Wolfs and Dark Angels. But the White Scars books are the best in the series in many ways
I still miss Targutai Yesugei, my all time favorite space marine
Top two BL writers IMO
"The dream had died" that alone makes me want to cry :(
Not joining Horus was further thought about, but in the end, Horus was pumped full of Demon juice. You just can’t trust a guy like that when you know better.
"You were my friend"
This line really got me.
You do a great job at bringing out the emotions in lines like this.
I think ive worked out The Emperor true name, and it is surprising after cross checking sources from the Black Library and discussing it with many people I can reveal to you fine people that The Emperor's true name is .................Bob.
I always thought it was Nigel
Too many memes makes the suspect it's actually Chad. :P
@@armholeeio i think its more set in divine theme yet not
This conversation, one between brothers, is heart breaking. The piece of Magnus begging for release and the Khan desperate for answers. The pain Khan has for Magnus’ fate and what he had to to was beautifully written.
Their friendship, and their’s with Sanguinius, is so under explored. Three of the most different, but so very alike. Having the same dream. Unity through progress, purpose, and understanding.
Honestly, I love this week. The Khagan is my favorite primarch.
Anyone has his favorite Primarch. I am still a great Magnus fan. (But i like Vulcan more, SALAMANDERS ARE THE BEST) But the Khan is probably at the end the true best Primarch! He is one without flaws.
Saladmancers and their jolly green giant primarch are indeed the best. I hope we see some Vulkan and Jaghatai stuff at the siege of terra
Wut
Resomius immagine if fulgrim and jagatai switched planets of discovery.. I can see a loyal zen type inspired 3rd legion which is loyal and a super edgy 5th that eventually falls to slanesh..
Really? No flaws? Because he can't lead if there is no war. He practically bent the knee because it is easier to be a general than an administrator so don't give me that "without flaws". Every last one of them have flaws but the closest to perfect is Ghuilliman, I know I know cheesy and too obvioua but he just is. There is no warhawk without "war", shield-brother.
@@bryanaa196 BUT IN THE 41. MILLENNIA THERE IS ONE WAR!
ok, jk, that is a good Objection...
This first time i read i felt realy sad about this scene,i was speechless.
Interesting alternate history
What would happen if one of the lost primarchs had been stuck in the warp and finally returns to the galaxy by crashing into a random planet. It would be a fight between the imperium and chaos to capture the baby primarch.
There would be a lot of infighting on both sides. Maybe guilliman vs the ecclesiarchy or guilliman vs a returned lion el'jonson. Plus fulgrim and magnus fight each other. Then maybe lorgar returns to try and train the new primarch and corax stops him.
Maybe the primarch lands on a tau world and learns the greater good from the tau, or crashes into an eldar craftworld and is used as a pawn by the eldar to help fight slaanesh.
Would be very cool but I don't think the lost primarchs will ever get a story because it's dedicated to the players armies.
@@ChaosCharge and im sure i have read that one of them is dead
8:40 "He is choosing to make the sacrifice"
Malcador hesitated and turned another card: Sacrifice ! That aided in creating Revelation's strategy.
Doesn't matter if it was the Chaos Gods or the Emperor, Sanguinius is being manipulated into that course of action. He is not choosing, he is obeying the will of an invisible chessmaster.
I thought the sacrifice talked of in that scene was Malcadors.
He sacrificed himself to give the Emperor time to confront Horus.
@@LazzaRuss He was the Fool. Sacrifice was Sanguinius.
Which is why God is giving him another chance as a warp ghost statue :)
@@LazzaRuss The card has a bloodied, red feather on its image.
Wow, Chris Wraight has got to get some top gun points here!
The best GW authors are:
Dan Abnett
Graham McNeill
Chris Wraight
David Guymer
Josh Reynolds
Great work Black Library!
Damn Rho, the daily posts are really keeping my head above water. Much love and thank you sir.
Is there more written about how Jagatai and Magnus became friends? This ending would have SO much more impact if I had a long story of these brothers competing in conquest and revelry.
We only get one scene with them together before this. But that is a great one. In the Khan's Primarch novel he, Magnus and Sanguinius meet to plan and discuss the Liberians and their alliance on the psyker question.
Jagatai was to insular to have deep friendships ala Fulgrim and Ferrus, but he liked and got along with Horus. And because he (like Lorgar) was wise to the power and depth of Warp, he greatly respected and somewhat liked Magnus.
Sanguinius, Horus and Magnus was the three Primarchs, that The Khan ever really got along with or even interacted much with. He was as insular as the Lion, but far less "prestigious" or in the spotlight. Everybody knew and had strong feelings about the The Lion. Almost nobody paid attention to the Khan. As he liked it.
Magnus, my Gen-father, your dawnfall was indeed a tragedy. I always wonder what would have happen if Russ would have listen to the emperor and brought you back to Tera... how the siege would have been quicker. Your fall was and still is a tragedy. I will never forget it.
An interesting dichotomy presented here between Magnus, whose fate was essentially written for him and who had to suffer through it playing out, and Jaghatai who was spared any dark fate (possibly because Fulgrim and he got swapped) and yet has to make a painful choice and live with the decision. Whether you have a choice or not you are in for a world of hurt.
Imagine after ten thousand years Russ redeems both of them and they return to save the Imperium. I do not see it saved any other way without return of the primarchs, SM's and Guard are already stretched beyond measure they need a literal miracle.
Jaghatai is fast becoming one of my fave primarchs pun Intended hopefully him and Magnus meet up again and maybe we can find out big E's real name!
Great work as always Wolf Lord Rho many thanks :)
It's Sue, the emperor is a man callled Sue!
@@luizhenriquealves9755 That's why he's tough. Grit in his eye and all that.
The Shard of Magnus said his "True name."
What else has true names?
I love that there's so many ways to take it.
i love it when u tell us how to enjoy wathammer novels 🤣 it's like a little speech that never changes lol 🙏🏽 please don't ever change the speech
A lot of people have talked about wanting to see Khan vs Fulgrim, or Khan vs Mortarion.
But after listening to this, I wanna see Khan vs Magnus. I can’t even imagine how heartbreaking and epic a fight like that would be.
The Khan is as wise as he is fast. I really can not wait for his real appearance in the Siege books!
I think jaghatai believed knew that the greater picture of the imperium and his fathers vision was of most importance to rise up humanity and protect it, but still wanted to keep himself as he was and keep his personality stern. But I do believe he still knew what had to be done for the greater good of humanity
These are my favorite moments in any Heresy novel... the intimate discussions giving more perspective on each of the primarchs. Like a veil being slowly lifted away from an unraveling mystery. The Wolf Lord is the added bonus!!
Bro, this was amazing... I listen back to it at least 5 times
my top two primarchs has been Russ and the Lion but the Khan is a very close 3rd!
Jaghatai khan is so underrated hes one of the deepest minded people with such simple motivation behind his actions
Yeah! "Hey everyone!" Is back!
Really gives your videos another vibe.
i love these primarch weeks as it open a window into who they were off the battlefield and what they were truly like as humans, i have just started out reading the novels but i am really looking forward to this one after watching todays video. keep up the good work Rho, i love your channel.
Is there a video about Russ being sad killing his Brother Magnus.
Don't know about a video
But it is in "wolf's bane" a lot about it
Did Russ ever regret fighting Magnus? Did he regret razing Prospero after learning that Horus had tricked him into doing it?
No, as far as I know Russ took pride in killing Magnus
@@nicholascerillo4000 He hated it. In battle of the fang Magnus says "Imagine that. The master of the wolves his ferocity twisted into grief. I know you took no pleasure in doing what you did brother. I knew then and I know it now.". Also if you read the actual battle report Russ defied Horus orders and attempted to contact Magnus but demons and Magnus himself made it impossible. Magnus ligit instead of being a sad bitch could have asked for Russ to help him which Russ would have done. Russ loved Magnus it was just that Magnus was going down a bad path.
Excellent video as always 👍. I’m enjoying the Khan week.
Never was a fan of white scars. Their battle style, the Mongolian theme, and how you never hear of them doing anything besides the siege. Now though recently I have grown to love the scars and Khan himself. He is now easy one of my favorite primarchs
Your Dante videos were my favourite before.... but The Khan is slowly catching up. These last 2 videos have been truly amazing. Thanks Rho👍🏼
The thought of the Khan just standing there grieving over the death of the dream is truly sad
Khan Week is awesome so far Rho!
Another awesome video I love this channel
One of my favorite books. This whole moment in the book was tear jerking. Honor and sacrifice always gets me in the feels. White Scars & The Khan rose up to be in my top 3 favorite things in all of 40K.
Magnus' greatest flaw wasn't arrogance, it was optimism.
Bromance between Khan Magnus and Sanguinius has always been my favorute alongside his bromance with Perturabo. I hope if we will EVER get a redeemed chaos primarch/s it will be magnus and he will be saved by the combined efforts of Khan , Soul Sanguinius and Girlyman. Also holy shit dude you made me cry with this.
The connection between the Khan and Magnus was initially surprising for me, and the how he was able to kill the psychnewin was strange
But how he busted out of the alpha legion blockade was beautiful
Whenever we encounter 'souls' of dead Primarchs they are always shattered into shards. The Emperor soul is also shattered in the warp. Perhaps he designed them as he himself was designed, from a conglomerate of powerful psychic human souls.
The entire Imperium is in flames.
Jaghatai decides to go on a fun adventure across the entire galaxy.
This was an awesome encounter and makes me respect and like the khan more. He’s a unique and interesting character. You need to do a khan vs mortarion like you mentioned in the khan vs fulgrim video you made.
This was such an epic moment.
No I'm not surprised Jaghatai stayed loyal. He's an honorable person and his word, his oath cannot be broken.
In case there are some of you that don't know Jaghatai made an oath to the Emperor when he first reunited with Jaghatai, that he would serve and protect his Imperium so long as he drew breath.
In Western cultures oaths are broken all the time. They are not however broken in the Eastern cultures that Jaghatai represents.
Malcador may have been surprised given the Khan unpredictability, but I don't believe for a moment that the Emperor didn't know his son's heart.
" They are not however broken in the Eastern cultures " Uhh what? A quick 10 minute history in Persian, Chinese or Japanese history says the different. Name of the game to gain power is to betray and break oaths.
The mongolian way, he is Chingis Khan. He respected an oath given, an oathbreaker is the worst kind of criminal.
I too like making broad statements based on made up history 😂
I have read Scars, and knew of this great moment. As a diehard Magnus fan i loved it, but I allways thought the book good but not great. Your take here may force me to reevaluate my rating.
I will just have to listen to Scars again!
What 3 HERETICS down voted this video! Burn warp spawn.
could you imagine if he had left the shard to be reunited with the other shattered pieces after the second ahriman spell
The shard did not want to be reunited, he knew he was corrupted and was losing himself. It a nice death at least he died with a friend, knowing who he is instead of who he was.
your voice is god tier!
The feels😞
I hope we see Jaghati and Magnus meet again in the Siege of Terra as they were both friends and to see how this changes in the siege will be interesting.
*bellNotification*
Ohhh yesss new vid!!
Right lets get fucking comfy for a good listen!
Btw one of the best pics on screen i must say!
Magnus...his story is like something from a Shakespearean tragedy. Always makes me a little sad when I read about it.
Hope you cover The Khan vs Mortarion
Love the white scars, from surface level I’d never think I’d be a fan , Chris Wright does a great job,.... he set tone for black library too.
Also, this video always makes me so sad. I always find myself drawn to Fulgrim, Magnus, and Perterabo's fall from the light of the Emperor. Their flaws are so like my own: hubris, vanity, paranoia. Like them I can never seem to get out of my own way :(
Finally the story continue
I'd love it if they release a 'what if' series.
Alternate realities where stuff like fulgrim and jaghatai are born in their respective places or wolves not falling for horus' ploy to have them destroy the thousand sons.
I want to you cover when the Khan first encounters the Deathguard outside the walls of the palace from the novel "The Lost and the Damned". It was the first epic piece of lore I've found myself and its awesome!
This is probably the reason the Khan and Russ will never get along.
As the old saying goes "Still waters run deep" The Khan is very much still water.
The mystery of Alpharius with the honesty of Dorn.
Might have to re read Scars and The Path of Heaven
I just re-read The Path of Heaven, and the final line of the first chapter still gives me chills. "And they are still laughing."
The point of a tragedy is that it couldn't be any other way. The heroes flaws lead them to their fates.
Don't think it's going to be a restoration of Magnus for a shard resides in Janus. However that is the limit of my lore knowledge for now till another section of the library is open to me.
This broke my heart because I love Magnus the red and the Khan. I honestly wish Magnus could be redeemed
This was great and the book was amazing. Christ writes Primarch's very well. I am not loving his take on Custodes so far but that's because they where not main Characters in his story most likely.
I wished we could see more of Jag, the Khan is such a killer Primarch
Magnus the Red was a fool. He was too eager to delve without any sort of common sense. I agree with another poster, that id love to see the Khan put him down or save him.
High Intelligence, Low Wisdom. Poor Magnus.
Had he not encountered Magnus to speak to him honestly, he might have just been with the traitors. There is a price are possibly the most important words Magnus has ever said.
So next video is Khan vs Mortarion? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaase
I need this book
"you were my brother, Magnus! I loved you!"
Bruh I love Magnus
The Khan favored free will, with Chaos no one has that. He never would have fallen, all would die before he would truly submit.
I think the Khan always believed in the dream of the imperium but never wanted to be part of it and if it had come to pass he would have taken his ships and legion and left for the outer reaches whether the Emperor commanded it or not.
So sad😞 I feel bad for Magnus still after what happened. He wasn't bad....just mistaken in his way of going about his actions.
In a universe as complicated as 30 and 40K a more simple and certainly more honest man like Jaghatai is probably destined to feel apart from everything. I think it only natural for such a character be conflicted when faced with a galactic civil war. He doesn't agree with the Emperor's lies and all the means for achieving his goals. He respects and loves his brothers, some more than others. But at the end of the day he knows that Horus/Magnus and other traitors are both playing with and being manipulated by forces they neither fully understand or control. I think that seeing Magus, despite what Russ did, confirmed for the Kahn what path was darker one.
"I can even tell you The Emperor's name...its Ligma"
the Khan *can't* believe it... pun unintended
I want more magnus and khan.
i like Khan so much
I really feel bad the Khan here, he was already something of an outcast
But why were they so close tho? Did they have similar hobbies? Did often battle along side each other? Did magnus help set up a date between kinky khan and a slaneeshy demoness? This is something in my opinion that should be fleshed out!
Something came to mind. So people of Chogoris were horsemen nomads, basically Mongols right? What was Jaghatais mount?
So we know the fate of another shard of Magnus.
I wonder how many are actually out there.
I wonder too. And if so does each one represent a different aspect of Magnus or are they all the same
So far they seem to represent different things. The shard that became the daemon prince is definitely his rage and vengeance.
The shard put into his Sgt that became Janus was more his raw intellect and power.
The suspected shard that drives the Blood Ravens to hunt down Imperial relics, even those of other chapters/orders, would be his intrigue and thirst for knowledge.
The peace Jaghatai destroys seems to me at least to be his pride and denial.
and if there is an uncorrupted one if it could lead to a redemption for the Red King
@@chrisbennett6236 Pretty sure there is one more Shard on Terra representing his humanity
@@jean-luchill6308 That would be cool. An uncorrupted loyal Magnus could be quite helpful in the Indominus Crusade.
Two things. The Khan is one of the most, if not the, wisest of primarchs. Chris Wraight is one of the best three Black Library authors. Scars is a masterpiece and one of the best written Horus Heresy novels.
I feel like kahn killed magnus, the fallen primarchs are all tucked away as shown with fulgrim whilst a demon controls the body. And that shard was the real magnus
Hey Rho , have you listened to the audio drama Malcador first lord of the imperium ?
Some amazing info in that
Yep, I love anything malcador!
Have you done a video on it ? If so I must have missed it . Would love to hear your thoughts
Magnus knows that the Emperor’s name is Briiian