ROGAL DORN MEETS ALPHARIUS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Hi all, Wolf Lord Rho back again,
Today we are looking at when Primarch Rogal Dorn of the Imperial fists. Met his brother Alpharius of the Alpha Legion, during the Great Crusade.
As always a big thank you to all my subscribers! And if you are new, please consider subscribing to help build the channel!
What are your thoughts on Dorn or Alpharius? Drop a comment below and share!
*Alpha Legion betrays both loyalists and heretics*
Both sides: "Seriously, what side are you on .... ?"
Alpha Legion: "Yes."
Hmmm yes and yes
Dorn will take your hands from you and then rip trough your skull alpharius
"Sides" are social constructs!!!
;(
@@goctexas1444 this really made me laugh
@@goctexas1444 that made burst in laugh
This passage in a HH book probably describes the Alpha legion the best.
Bjorn the Fell-Handed: "Why ???".
Dying Alpha legionnaire: "For the Emperor"
tibby dude which book?
The Scars, Legion Divided
Lol I remember that moment too but I don't remember the books name xD
@@morbomm really? I do not remember this moment at all hahaha. It would mean that Alpharius did tell some of his legion their real purpose and told others that rebelling with Horus was the right thing to do.
@@blinkingred Alpharius probably didn't tell them more than they needed to know. But there is a kind of almost fanaticism among the AL. Success of the mission at all costs.
Alpha legion is still the craziest of all. Their actions are like an onion of motives
I think they are loyal. They just do moves to secretly strengthen the imperium. They attack planets and destroy planets they know are going to be stupid to waste troops in. So they fight and kill everyone. and make it so the imperium says fuck it. It's a loss. They attack other planets and retreat causing that planet to strengthen their defenses. While heading to the galactic east toward the eye. Planets that would be of value and strategic. I remember that from a bunch they withdrew after a fashion when friendly forces would arrive.
I am Alpharius
Zsah Man I’m 100% sure that that’s how Alpha Legion sees itself, but not nearly so sure whether they actually succeed or are just walking a road to hell paved with good intentions. The problem with moral calculus is that a few tiny mistakes in the equations can turn lesser evils for the greater good into just evils. I don’t think GW wants people to be able to determine whether the alpha legion have become the mask they wear while trying to act as double agents.
@@IONATVS Honestly. I think they leave that open for them to decide at a end time. Like what would suit the lore better or fit in what ever scheme they wish. I believe maybe the fans might of looked too far into it, made up stories and GW light switch came on and played with that idea kinda like an ace up the sleeve kind of deal. But that is my personal tin foil hat theory. lol
@@IONATVS who knows
Alpha Legionary: I am alpharius
Vulkan: BRUTHA! *crushing with hug
Alpha Legionary 2: I am... alpharius...
Vulkan: Oh my apologies. *crushes with hug
Alpharius: Why are all my legionaries broke in half?
This serious made me laugh out loud until my sides hurt. It's so stupid...so funny...so Vulkan and Alpharius
hahahha i can see Vulkan repeating this through the whole 20th legion hahaha :D :D
The nicest if all the Primarchs that loves giving hugs to humans alike, also the scariest looking of all the primarchs... we love you Vulcan.
@@bruvathroatpuncher500 A 12 foot man with glowing red eyes and weighing in at the weight including armor of vehicles wants to give you a big hug. Nightmare fuel.
I mean Vulkan is the biggest of all of his brothers so it would be hilarious to picture him just getting flustered and hugging like 4 alpha legionares at once to just try to find him.
This is why I think Dorn is actually one of the deepest characters in this series. There are certain truths about his brothers and the Emperors true intentions that only Dorn knew. And many of these truths were heavy burdens to bear in of themselves but compound that with the responsibilities put on him during the Heresy. I think this conversation did open Dorns eyes a bit more to their father though, and the conversation he has with Malcador about the real fate of the two lost primarchs and their legions in the short story is eye opening. He is stoic and can at times be misrepresented as lacking passion, but i think as Dorn said to alpharius, he believes the Emperor wants them to battle their nature not embrace it which is why I think Dorn is a stoic at times as he is.
I love your insight. Some great food for thought!
Dorn: "My body has a depth that is similar to other Primarchs. Furthermore, my eyes are always open by the optimum amount. Father has never asked for us to do battle against nature, but I would imagine that we would be VERY successful, as nature is often less dangerous than the xenos or the traitor legions."
So, if the primarchs are to battle their true nature in service to the emperor and the Imperium, then what is Rogal Dorn’s true opponent?
Epidemic989 himself
@@DogmeatDied989 social cues
Very nice story. I would speculate that the Alpha Legion replaced the prince before killing all of his relatives, negating Dorn's arguments about Alpharius' approach to war. This is a standard Alpha Legion tactic - replacement. The Alpha Legion has replaced Inquisitors bent on pursuing them, countless Legionaries (from the book Corax), and Mechanicum personnel - d*mn, they hijacked an entire Titan Cohort with the aid of their replacements. Replacing the Prince would ensure that the world would definitely be compliant in the future - and none would be the wiser. The Alpha Legion is without a doubt, my favorite Legion.
happytravelling Literally bringing them into the Imperial fold with the locals not knowing when they officially joined.
Who knows the alpha legion could have controlled the planet for a good while
Not only that, in doing so the way that they did, he also ensures that there is no question of the presumed true allegiance of that ruler.
he will be thought of as one of them. Not as someone who caved to the imperium, but as a victim of their actions.
He ensures enemies and Loyalists alike will support him.
I could definitely see this being the entire plan.
@Dark Madbat in mass assassination, the Alpha legion showed the world that not even the height of their rulers and society were safe. The most important and secured individuals with the most power werent out of reach. Showed that there was no way to fight back. Pretty crushing to moraI and the will to resist, I'd imagine.
Agreed. I also personally think Alpharius had a point, particularly in the context of warfare in the 40k setting. Had they not replaced/assassinated the prince and his entire family of nobles, they'd of likely continued resistance seeing as they'd already initiated hostilities and there was no going back. Had Alpha Legion not interfered , Dorn and the imperial fists would carried out an all out assault and given that the Imperial Fists used similar siege tactics to the Iron Warriors, it would have resulted in a long drawn out siege that would have killed billions of people, including many civilians. Seeing as this was pre-heresy the ridiculously massive death toll would have given the Imperium some pause as their goal at this time was expansion and the reunification of humanity across the stars, especially since it was Pluto which by warhammer standards is practically on Terra's doorstep. Which would of been the greater evil , killing a couple hundred of the royal family and nobility, or acting on high minded principles that would of ended in getting tens of billions killed , some of which had no choice whether their government resisted the imperium or not. This is the problem with moral busybodies like Dorn. While their intentions are noble and good, the end result often will be far from either. Whereas what initially may on the surface seem like a brutal and cunning, that at first glance seems unnecessary, even psychopathic, ultimately it was done to prevent an even greater atrocity. Essentially both lines of think can be dangerous abd lead to folly. This is what I think Black library was going for here, the fact that if you try hard even, you can justify anything , yet to someone else, that may be a horrific crime, and vice versa.
Dorn is just plainly right about so many things that the other primarchs struggle with and argue about. He makes such an effort to be rational, while all the others just go with their gut because they're super genius enough to get away with it. Another great Dorn moment is when some of the primarchs were debating who among them was the best melee fighter, and everyone was "Angron for sure, maybe Sanguinius" but Dorn's just there like "Hey, rather than Angron how about someone who thinks, like Horus, Robute, Russ, etc.? Or maybe Vulkan, that guy who holds back desperately so as not to tear his brothers limb from limb on accident when we spar?" This moment is made even better by the fact that it is supported by the stat lines of the primarchs on tabletop.
Can you remember what book that conversation is from? I haven’t seen that!
Did you find out what book has that line?
It was Boldemort that opened my eyes to fact that Dorn is the best primarc.
The answer is clearly Sanguinius
@@fiddlesticks7245 I too once believed this, but sanguinius as favourite primarch is just taking the easy option. He is so powerful, so noble, so visually unique, he is for lack of a better description too perfect. The blood Angels are still my favourite chapter, But for me Dorn is the best as he matures and develops through the course of the heresy and after. IMO it is easier to sacrifice yourself for a cause you truly believe than it is elevate yourself above what you previously were and make truly hard choices. but that's just my opinion matey.
I think the most interesting part of this interaction is that Dorn is right. He does know Alpharius and he does see his flaws even while Alpharius continues to deny that they are significant. Dorn is hinting that Alpharius' problem is that he's an isolationist. He keeps things from his brothers and even his closest confidants. Dorn hits this point a bunch of times during the conversation without actually really saying it. He wants Alpharius to come to the conclusion on his own and he gives out a fuckload of hints. That initial strike is thrown in anger at Alpharius' unwillingness to accept that the way he does things is a problem, even if he thinks its in his nature to be solitary and insular.
Even when Dorn is scolding Alpharius for his ignorance, he's trying to help him. That moment at the end of the conversation is the most poingant part. Dorn is showing his brother that if he had just collaborated with Dorn instead of doing everything by himself, he would have known how to better implement his strategy and they could have worked together to better each other. When he tells Alpharius "You made no mistakes, yet I still knew it was you." he's trying to get Alpharius to see that while he is incredibly competent, he still has flaws. Just like the rest of his brothers, he isn't perfect.
During the entire conversation, Dorn is fighting against his own flaw. His anger. He is angry with his brother for not getting it, angry that there were (in his opinion) unnecessary murders carried out by the Alpha Legion, and angrier still that Alpharius is trying to defend himself using the Emperor as a shield. Archamus can see it in his primarchs eyes. That unmistakeable twinge of restrained fury that Dorn is so famous for. Dorn is doing what Alpharius cannot and he is angry that Alpharius cannot see that there is a better way and it is possible. It's literally standing right in front of him, clad in gold armor, talking to him at that very moment. That old addage is beyond true, Alpharius wouldn't have been able to see the solution to the problem if it had literally smacked him in the face, and it almost did.
Sure, Alpharius' methods work. But he could be better. Much better.
Hydra Dominatus.
By golly I think you nailed Rogal Dorn's viewpoint! Someone give this person more likes!!
"Why are we fighting our own forces?"
Alpha_Legion.gif
I imagine Alpha Legion sneaking into the Imperial palace, assassinating the Emperor only to find him an Alpha Legion trying to collapse the Imperium from the inside.
"Well, now I feel like an idiot."
"Shh, I'm trying to figure out which side I was on."
I think one reason the heresy happened is that the Primarchs didnt trust each other. The Primarchs didnt talk to each other as much as they should have. The secrets and mistrust among the Primarchs helped the heresy along. Great video as always, keep them coming.
Trust was definitely an issue for many of the Primarchs. And thanks, I will!
Totally agree, such demigods as brothers is a recipe for disaster, if they all grew up together things would be alot different, there didnt have much time together to form brotherly bonds
@@JONNY_RICO69 Just as the Chaos Gods must've counted on when they warped them away from Terra whilst in their Gestation Pods.
R D Indeed, mistrust among the Primarchs often led to mutual misunderstandings and exacerbated tensions between them. On the other hand, some loyal Primarchs’ trust in their brothers who later proved unreliable also brought them (and by extension, the Imperium) much grief. For example, Sanguinius and Horus were best of friends, and that’s why the latter was entrusted with the secret of the Red Thirst. Another example would be Ferrus and Fulgrim.
You also have to remember growing up with your sibling can cause a lot of animosity too.
Dorn: We can speak privately if you want.
Alpharius: I do not keep secrets from my brothers.
Dorn: THAT is a lie.
I want to hear this in ITHATTSD Dorn's voice
"Do not worry father, I check my head everyday in the mirror...Everything is still on"
"Yes Alpharius it is I. *ROGAL DORN*
I narrate everything by Dorn in SuperAnchors portrayal of him. It is glorious
@@Blade40688 (In Dorns voice..."Yes!")
“YEEeeees...”
I love the conversation Dorn has with Garviel Locken the first book. It really shows how thoughtful he can be. This was back when Horus was still a genuinely amazing person.
He basically says, (with much more elegant phrasing)
"Okay, my dad has dropped a *gigantic* turd on my brother, and even though Horus is the best of us, he *is* the best choice for Warmaster, only my dad could actually run the Crusade without going bonkers. You're a cool dude, so keep an eye on my brother for me, just make sure you help him stay on the up and up."
I think the thing I admire the most is the humility that comes from Dorn in that scene. He doesn't just have the performative humility that Horus has. He seems to genuinely acknowledge that he couldn't carry the burden himself. And Dorn even acknowledges that he can't carry his lesser burdens alone. To compensate he surrounds himself with Astartes that keep him honest. I think the theme that runs through the trilogy is that the men who stand strong are honest about their own limitations and seek out help and counsel from other honest people. And it's no surprise that Dorn and Garviel end up being among the strongest. Such a good trilogy of books.
Alpharius was insistin' on a Fistin !
Are you sure it was Alpharius?
Alpharius is a troll. Damn shame he may or may not have gone traitor.
Definitely Alpharius. Omegon was apparently working for the loyalists and Alpharius for the renegades.
@@Beardedwarrior91 Nope, I think both are / were loyalists because they only joined because the cabal told them that if horus won, it would be the end of chaos.
@Der Milchmann maybe, or maybe they were trying to sabotage the heresy from within. You know, typical Alpha Legion stuff.
Remember Emperor created the primarchs but that is only half of the equation. They grew to adulthood on different planets. Therefore we are forced to ponder the age old question, nature vs nurture. Alpharius might be a sneaky duplicitous sob, but does he really have to act that way?
Irondiver well didn’t he grow up almost completely alone? So he is basically going off of his nature. But idk
The Emperor works in mysterious ways.
So does Alpharius. 😎
maybe that is who he is by design...
noome knows where Alpharius grew up
Alpharius is the only Primarch that grew up on Terra. He had all the tools and training to be a primarch. All the "love" and attention of his father. Yet the one that shape and actually trained Alpharius was Malcador the Sigillite. The same Malcador that was the first grandmaster of Officio Assassinorum. The same Malcador that founded the Grey Knights in secret. All secretive, all deceptive and dubious in nature, yet necessary. It was also Malcador that encouraged Alpharius to remain hidden throughout the unification wars. And Malcador thought him the psychic technique to hide his presence from all he needed to deceive and shield his mind of psychic probing. Taught him to play both sides and play the long game. The Emperor might have intended him to be this way but it was Malcador that raised Alpharius.
Dorn... every time I think I have you figured out... you pull a fast one on me and prove me wrong...
And then you realize, siege warfare is the hardest type of warfare, because one microscopically miscalculated step could destroy your entire defensive.... everyone always praises Perturabo for the iron cage fortress trap... but Dorn is that fortress personified... he just had to realize that his one flaw is he can’t outsmart himself
Alpha Legion are definitely one of the most compelling legions around. The mystery surrounding them is something I hope gets some well put together closure one day, but if I had to speculate, I would say that they are both loyal and traitor; different factions withing the legion playing a tend thousand year long game of 4d chess as they try to accomplish their own ends.
Still believe the Alpha Legion is loyal.
can't gamble on that when they've been harassing imperium the best they can since the heresy
to ignore their threat is one big risky gamble on something so volatile
@@andi2658 - i think the alpha legion never gave a toss either way. they just have their own bizarre motives.
@@andi2658 then again they might be doing a similar job to the inquisition or assassin temples.
@@andi2658 since your name is war 40k. I am curious. The alpha legion and other traitor legions. How do they replenish their looses? Like loyalist have planets to recruit from. How do traitors?
@@zsahman1723 The same, to be frank. It isn't too specified but they still find new people to join and such. Abduction, indoctrination, or astartes for still loyal chapters that went traitor. The Redacted from the Sons of the Hydra book are an alpha legion warband, however they're made up of astartes that aren't always of alpha legion genetic stock, with for instance, if I remember correctly, one of them originally being an Ultramarine. The warband that Khârn the betrayer rolls with in recent novels (big red champion of khorne dude) is made up of astartes from a bunch of different legions.
In short, traitor warbands mix with other legions, but will also recruit where they can if they have access to the facilities required.
The last part where Dorn picks apart how Alpharius could have been more efficient within his own operations was the first thing that really started to understand just how awesome Dorn is. Super intelligent, strong, to the point, insightful and even in strategies beyond his own, utterly efficient. The guys a boss.
Rogal Dorn is just the one you can't surprise. Becouse your surprise is just a piece of his plan..
Tzeentch in the background: "Just as... planned?"
Dorn is the classic space marine. Tough, calm, and stoic.
"Apologies only have meaning if they are rooted in regret. Your words are meaningless"
That is my second most favorite dorn quote, only behind "you're holding a gate for no one. You're just an idiot on a wall."
Rogal says that he understands Alpharius, but does he really?
martijn sonneveld you actually make a good point. When I was reading the praetorian of Dorn I kept reading how Dorn said he knows Alpharius, knows what he's like and how he works, this is despite the Alpha Legion running around the Solar System.
Dorn entrusts Archamus with dealing with the threat instead of himself, we see Dorn supposedly take Phalanx out of the Solar System to engage in battle elsewhere and a number of other situations where we end up getting some doubt that maybe he doesn't know his Brother at all.
As we get to the end of the book it seems, yup Dorn's the fool and Alpharius has out played him but then BOOM! Alpharius is puzzled by why Archamus has fallen into his trap on Pluto and not Dorn, only for Phalanx to appear having not actually having left the Solar System but instead being hidden around Jupitor (I think, I forget which planet) Dorn then appears and analyses Alpharius fighting style forcing him to over extend before tanking a hit to pin him in place and slicing him up.
IMO I think the book puts a little doubt in our minds that Dorn is over confident only for it to turn out that it was Alpharius that was outplayed for a change and it cost him.
Dorn knows how Alpharius works and ticks. That doesn't mean he literaly knows the location of every Alpha Legion operative.
Ape mantus This
Looking at the new lore, it appears this wasn’t Alpharius has Alpharius was taught how to mask his presence, his brother was not taught this
@@bullbegger2281 i believe that was luck more than Dorn knowing Alpharius. Alpharius was trying to talk with Dorn the entire time. He dodged Dorns attacks like it was nothing. He didnt even strike to kill, only to immobilise Dorn. if Alpharius truly wanted to kill Dorn, i think Dorn would die that day. Plus, we still arent even sure if it was truly Omegon or Alpharius. We know they switched identities the day they met. And we also know the spear belonged to Omegon rather than Alpharius
Night Lords in the future I hope!
The Emperor may have created the Primarchs, but as all humans the Primarch can be formed and form themself according to their life experiences. They are human.
No, we definitely do not want to risk having the HH series come to the big screen.
Thanks for looking into the Alpha Legion. They're story is still to be told in literature but I see them as the secret hero's of the Imperium. At least Omegon wants to be :)
The Salamanders , Alpha Legion and Space Wolves are called the trefoil legions ... they were separated from the other legions during the Great Crusade by the big E.
Still lots of stories to be told.
Dude, if Omegon was secretly helping the loyalists then he is a Chaos follower. The Cabal told him and Alpharius that if the Imperium was to win the heresy, then Chaos would win in the long run.
Yes but that was before the outcome of the Heresy. I wonder if know that the Emperor survives and Chaos is more of an infection vs a norm, I wonder if the Cabal and they're agenda has changed. I wonder what knew outcomes are ulimatly possible. @@massimo3637 You are correct though with your theory btw. I just hope for a 2nd half comeback for the Alpha Legion ;)
Yes absolutely! @@tibbydudeza
@@tacitronin4970 I really wouldn't like a secretly loyal Alpha Legion ahah. They are far cooler on their own or tragically fallen to Chaos despite their initial plan.
Alpharius orchestrated it all. If Alpharius had taken the course of action Dorn pointed out at the end, then they would not be having this meeting. Alpharius would not have acquired new knowledge about Dorn. He made Dorn angry, he showed that he is not as impassive and unflinching as he seems. He proved a point, and sowed the seeds of doubt in Dorn towards the Alpha Legion. Alpharius now knows his brother so much better, for the cost of 400 human traitors. Alpharius is always two steps ahead of all his brothers
that's actually really smart
I really love this point but I think just to keep the 3 dimensional chess going between these primarchs I think Dorn is aware of the manipulation and that is part of why he disapproves so adamant ly Alpharius ultimately choosing a less effective means of achieving the Emperor's goals to support his own agenda. A deeper read into Dorn explaining how to more optimally execute Alpharius's plan is an accusation that it was never his only goal to begin with and he is aware that Alpharius is capable enough to see know better.
I think we've spotted the salty Alpha Legion player
Hydra Dominatus.
Cope Alpha Legionnaire
You know what would be the greatest twist for the Alpha Legion? What if the the Alpha Legion Primarch wasn't actually two people, but three?!
their symbol would make perfect sense, a three headed hydra.
Omegon and the third were also the two lost primarchs of the erased legions...
I always looked at the being killed by Dorn as one of the Legionaries with The Investiture of The Three-fold Hydra, while Alpharius & Omegon have been leading their legion separately. This would e plain why some seem more "traitorous" & others more "We are true servants of the Emporer."
The Alpharius novel puts this entire passage into an entirely new light.
It really does. Especially since Alpharius even comments on this meeting in the book.
@@filwilliamson9149 What does he say?
@@piercebrosnan9528 Alpharius claims that he intentionally aided the IF in a suboptimal manner in order to get a better idea of Dorn’s character. He was working on the idea that to find out what a person really thinks, then give them a chance to criticize you. They may point out something useful, but they’ll often focus on stuff that reflects their own character or shortcomings.
So Dorn going on a rant about how Alpharius could have done his covert efforts better was all stuff that Alpharius already knew, but had chosen not to do.
It sounds like a really wasteful thing to do, but given that Dorn went on be the praetorian of Terra and made that planet his own, Alpharius’ paranoia was probably justified
@@filwilliamson9149 Thankyou fren
@@filwilliamson9149interesting.
Dorn's insinuation seems to be that he also knows what the true intention of Alpharius is, and that his moves gave it away. Is that correct?
Only Dorn knows for sure!
That's what Alpharius wants Dorn to think.
I like the idea that Dorn knows who he was because as A can change perception, but Dorn basically can't be effectively lied too. He's literally that straight forward that he can psychically register lies like people with perfect pitch can tell when a note is a cent off. Just my theory.
I am soooo soo happy you put this video up, I finally find out what Rogal Dorn said to Alpharius!! I like the way you attempt to convey each person's words and persona. I do wish it was easier to tell the difference between when you read from the book and when you discuss, but it is fine. I will be sure to look up more of these.
If the quote/phrase "Your enemy is your greatest teacher" Then the Alpha Legion learned well from Rogal Dorn. If the Alpha Legion took this lesson to heart it would explain why it is so hard for the Imperium and Inquistion to find and destroy Alpha Legionaries and their operatives before they strike. I mean for crying out loud the put Vindicaire assassin's heads in the High Lord's of Terra food storage. Terra! The resting place of the Emperor of Mankind, the Legio Custodes, Numerous Adepta of the Imperium, and possibly a token force of Space Marines and the Alpha Legion somehow manages to sneak the heads in there as in defiance saying "You are not untouchable, Nothing is beyond our reach." I recently read Shroud of Night by Andy Clark and it is well worth the money I spent on it. I am quite intrigued by the 20th Legion's activities. Good luck and thanks again.
These interactions feel so tragic and so awesome at the same time and in equal measure. Your voice does it great justice, thanks for the content!
Alpharius/omegon are awesome! Still hoping they're not traitor
Alpharius is confirmed to be dead, omegon is still up for debate.
As for the traitor/loyalist debate, Alpharius betrayed the imperium Because he saw no other option to save humanity from chaos. Omegon however, wanted to save the imperium, without turning traitor. He wanted a third option, and if he's still alive (its highly likely) he's likely still loyal to the imperium, but he hates what its become.
> "Alpharius is confirmed to be dead"
That's just what he'd *want* you to think...
@@Novafire194 what book does it state that alpharius and omegon have different views?
I'm still alpharius and still kivking
To be honest who knows, it's Alpha Legion after all.
I really enjoy your videos. It's clear you are really having a good time making these, and that you really like the lore. You aren't over dramatic, overly produced, and don't have an annoying intro. Thanks for doing these.
thanks for the support!
loved this passage. being the most pragmatic and straightforward of all the primarchs you would think rogal wouldnt have too much of an issue with alpharius' methods even if he doesnt necessarily wish to use them himself. alpharius killed 400 people but how many were saved as a result of surrender instead of war? i really dont think the emperor would mind this outcome at all and oddly enough i would say alpharius has the moral high ground here
Yeah, but Dorn's point is that instead of showing his enemies as weak or unworthy, Alpharius had effectively made a martyr, one that could disrupt peace in the years to come.
That's the point Dorn was making, I've had the argument before and I think both sides hold merit but Dorn has the right of it here.
IT IS I ALPHARIUS!!
Dorn: Oh God it's another one
You're Alpharius, you're Alpharius, I'm Alpharius!
Are there any other Alphariuses I should know about?!
Maybe usless I'm alpharius
That exchange made me love the AL, not Dorn. I firmly believe Alpharius fully knew what Dorn pointed out. I think he "chose" not to for the sole purpose of egging Dorn... and it worked. He was testing Dorn the entire time. Dorn was able to perceive the blantent fault in Alpharius strategy but didnt bother to ask why his brother didn't. Thus he ultimately failed Alpharius' test. Thats why he didnt respond to Dorn's critique. And why after that point, all the banter ended. Notice at the end, Alpharius suddenly acted very... disappointed in Dorn.
Interesting new way to look at it, I never thought of that
Just found your channel.
Just subscribed.
GREAT STUFF. I'd love to hear your take on anything involving Corvus Corax/The Raven Guard. The opening for "Corax" from the Primarchs series where he and Guilliman are discussing tactics is a pretty good read.
Thanks for the support!
Wolf Lord Rho yeah dude I stumbled upon your channel, figured it had less views and subs so might not be worth looking at but I love 40k so I’ll give it a shot. Now probably my favorite 40k channel!
*Anyone says anything*
Dorn: "...No."
Ultimately, Alpharius' methods killed less people than Dorn's at the end of the day. Despite Dorn taking issue with the lack of honor, fair fights are for suckers and honor is just a formality.
But doing so caused future problems. That was dorns point. Winnning the war to lose the peace is not victory.
@@brandons9027 how would Dorn know? he didn't ask alpharius what they did specifically he just stubborned his way to that conclusion.
@@rubengerritsen6868 Yeah, you make a good point actually.
Yeah, as much as Dorn goes on about understanding Alpharius I really don't think he does. His presumption is that no new leading members of society could rise up or be elevated to replace those killed is completely baseless but fits all too well with the rigid thinking of someone whose focus is on being unyielding /and unchanging/ in the face of adversity, those who rule will remain those who rule and destroying them can only leave a vacuum. As much as Alpharius has arrogance enough to blind there's an implicit arrogance is Dorn's presumption of knowing Alpharius and his methods so well that clearly he's got the better plan because he theorycrafted for a few moments.
A crazy thought. The hydra has three heads. What if the pimarch of the XX were not twins but triplets?
That would be fun
But who is primach of the four
hydra has more than just three heads dude. Alpha legionary makes up the rest of the heads.
As an iron warriors player and fanboy I legally can't like Dorn.
Even a heretic can respect their enemy.
Go dig a trench. :p
@@malmvist1717 *loud gas mask noises*
@@toastymarket4089 An Iron Warrior has little respect even for his fellow legionnaires.
hahaha well you should be over that already after you slaughtered fists in the iron cage
I just want to say your doing these conversations perfectly not deadpaning off a script. Love it.
What an amazing piece of artwork wow
I keep going back and listening to your old videos. They're fucking amazing and your enthusiasm and intelligent insight is awesome. Well done brother
Had Alpharius not tried to fool Dorn I bet it would have rattled Dorn much more.
My body was not shaken by vibrations due to talking with my brother
That was great...while I'm a nasty noise Marines player..and enjoy EC/ fulgrim lore...I have always had a soft spot for the Imperial Fists and Dorn (maybe because I always played them in the old Space Quest Game as a kid/ tween)..And you can't lie that the Alpha Legion has become super stars because of the Horus Heresy Series.. so this interaction was great...
You play noise marines?! Ugh. Someone sanitize this poor bastard, quickly.
For as much as this makes you like Dorn, it makes me like Alpharius.
The twins are my third favorite set of primarchs lol
Really wish I had the time and money to make a good fluffy Alpha Legion army.
All your Space Marine chapters, Imperial Guard, Navy, Adeptus Mechanicus, Administratum and even within the Inquisition, have Alpha Legion sleeper agents. They are nowhere and everywhere in the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if Alpha Legion had a few agents implanted among the certain Xenos races. Like a Tau Alpha Legion sleeper agent. So in my head canon, on table top, if an Alpha Legion reveals itself, than they have already a few within my enemy players ranks.
The more I see of Alpharius the more he reminds me of Loki from the marvel movies. At first he seems cunning and brilliant, but the more he pulls the same dumb games the more tired and predictable he becomes. Its like he's so obsessed with the idea of being mysterious that he's actually missed the point of mystery at all.
I absolutely love the enigma that is the Alpha legion. They also have the coolest damn aesthetic with their hyrda decorations and reticulated armor design.
This must be the most confusing and awkward conversation for the sons and in relation to each other, cousins, to hear their father and uncle bicker about.
It wasn't about how effective he was, it was about the path he CHOSE to take.
The REAL Alpharius is a Blank. The one Rogal killed was Betagor and Gulliman killed Omegon. Alpharius is the Last Head of The Hydra. Orchestrating everything in his legion. And Loyal.
If GW gave the alpha legion that power then I expect them to use it when it matters.
@@Litany_of_Fury Good idea.
Just fucking accept he's dead bruh.
Shit another great 40k channel.
Subbed. To many good ones now.
"You will not find any" bloody hell I love this Legion/Chapter!!! No matter whether loyal or heretics, I'll always play my AL and really do hope that in one way or the other Alpharius lives
I see Dorn's point, as much as I love Alpharius. With the level of infiltration that they had already achieved, the Alpha Legion could have easily influenced the hives to join the Imperial forces against the world's rulers. "The World Prince is squandering the lives of our loved ones against an inevitable outcome, we should seize the moment and save what we can." The world would have turned, and their would have been total victory without fear or resentment of the Imperium. Alpharius chose the lazier, sloppier method of inspiring terror and resentment, showing the world prince and the population at large: "the Imperium has arrived, and you cannot possibly stop us from doing whatever we want, whenever we want, to whomever we want. Surrender or die."
Alphie, I love(d) you man, but your greatest, most glaring flaw is your flair for the dramatic.
Though, to be fair, Dorn is only arguing from what he knows. He's confident he has a grasp of the situation, but his beliefs are not necessarily correct.
That OR Alpharius was looking for a way to get under Dorn's skin, to provoke Dorn so he'd get a better insight of what makes him tick.
Robbe Torfs truth, Alpha Legion isn’t ignorant to their abilities. I’m sure they have units in every aspect of humanity.
16 minutes 25 seconds is where I believe we get a massive insight into Alpharius and the alpha legions plan to stay loyal to the emperor. He talks about the end justifying the means and a lot of other cryptic things that would fit very nicely into the theory that the alpha legion is ultimately loyal to the emperor.
Give it a listen starting at 16 minutes and 25 seconds.
Alpha legion 30k: alpharius wrestling with philosophical viewpoints against his brothers and conquering world's
Alpha legion: fahcking metal BAWXES!!!!
Love this book so much!
Major spoilers so if you've not read it don't read this!
I think this book has one of the most misread fights in the entire series. I kept hearing from certain people that Dorn didn't deserve to beat Alpharius because he had help from Archamus blah, blah. Etc. This is nonsense and I'd love to know where this alternate take on the fight comes from.
Pages 465-466 clearly detail how a fatally wounded Archamus tries to intervene when he sees Alpharius is primed for a killing blow but rebounds harmlessly off of the spear unaware that Dorn had seen the strike and purposely tanked the shot to over extend Alpharius and pin him in place.
"Dorn stood, unmoved, the spear embedded in his shoulder where HE HAD STEPPED IN to take the blow. His left hand was locked around the spears haft" this move is even foreshadowed earlier in the book when Dorn uses a similar move again the giant Orks. The book is very clear so would love to know where this alternate take on the fight stemmed from
Ape mantus Completely agree. It deliberately says he stepped in to take the attack as planned. Worst case scenario even if it was going to stab him in the gut he still would have grabbed the spear and killed Alphie no matter what. Even if he died it would be a draw, but I bet Dorn would survive it. There’s no way to see that last part in f the fight with Alphie walking away a winner.
I love how every time alpharuis does something badass dorn just looks over at him, he just shrugs
My favorite Primarch (mainly due to TTS), Big Daddy Dorn!
“You know where this one is heading…” with Alpharius, no we do not! Lol
I think this was Alpharius probing Rogal.
He knew, during the Siege of Terra, how Dorn would react. Perhaps it was insights gleaned from this encounter that helped the Alpha Legion show so much chaos well before the Siege begun?
I see why they made Dorn a very literal character in the "text-to-speech" parody, he's as blunt as a hammer but goddamn he's a badass. No subterfuge and no legion politics, Dorn will just call you out on your bullshit in front of everyone.
Alpharius is an assassin that wants to be noticed. The guy is clever but is under the mistaken belief that he is the far and above the most intelligent person in the room and wants everyone to acknowledge it. No wonder Rogal Dorn knew the one in the throne was real it was the only place some on with Alpharius’s ego would be.
Dorn should have a mustache.
I forgot how fire this is. Such a good story
It has been said that Dorn for whatever reason was one of very few individuals that always could tell Alpharius and his twin appart from their Legionairs after relatively short observation
Horus heresy would have to be a series there is no way they would do the entire thing justice in 1 or 3 movies
Rogal Dorn has been my favorite primarch ever since I started the siege of Terra. He's honest, stoic, does his duty, he's not arrogant, he's not rash in his decisions. If Perturabo was not present at the siege of Terra then Rogal would have held out long enough for Bobby G to arrive and completely wreck the traitor forces
Just discovered your channel, fucking love it. Marathoned a bunch while at work.
My theory on the legions is that its an illusion that the legions are actually designed for their primarchs; instead, the Primarchs unintentionally designed their legions, the gene-seed mutation to meet the wants and expectations of the Primarchs. The Alpha twins wanted a legion they could blend in without issue. Magnus wanted to see a humanity with a higher psychic potential and to demonstrate the virtue of psychic ability, and thus his legion warped to meet his demand, even if this mutation would be impossible, resulting in the flesh change. Fulgrim wanted to wipe out all impurity within, which resulted in maladaptive changes in his legion leading to the Blight, because a cancer is basically a failed mutation or cell recovery. Sanguinius had a contradictory idea of what he wanted of his legion, being both fierce and furious warrios while also embodying nobility, and the Red Thirst grew forth from this contradiction, and Leman Russ...Yeah you can all figure it out.
It is therefor also entirely unsurprising that the most stable geneseeds are the ones with the most orthodox and straightforward demands and wants of their legion
Really like this theory as it does make some sense with many legions! The Iron Hands however took their Primarch's Fists as what they should aspire to, to be more deadly. Ferrus Manus even states that he wants to change this later on. Roboute wanted to set an example that the Imperium could aspire to a shining light of progress and even 10,000 years later Ultramar is still better than most of the Imperium's standard of living. Vulkan wanted his sons to understand the importance of protecting those weaker than you as Vulkan experienced on Nocturne when the Dark Eldar conducted raids on the humans. The Primarch that brings this theory into question though would be the Night Haunter as despite his views on justice many of them did not fully take to this or revelled in the use of fear for the sake of it rather than as a means to an end. Although I could accept this because unlike the other Primarchs, the Night Haunter did not leave a presence to maintain the work he had labored to establish.
Hey. There is a really old HH book, one of the first few I believe. It's called Legion. Not much of a spoiler but throughout the novel, the Alpha Legion is called pragmatic, comprehensive and free thinking. So, Dorn can take his holier than thou attitude and shove it. The Harrowing will not be denied. We are Legion, we are one.
Hello again everyone! I just re-watched this video for the 4th time now and I just realized something that is rather disturbing.
Warning spoilers ahead concerning first contact with the Tyrannids and the 2nd Tyrannic War.
At 19:30 of this video we hear Rogal Dorn's dissection of Alpharius's strategy on this world by the time it reaches 20:04 we hear of a strategy that is practically identical to how the Tyrannids spread their Genestealers throughout the Imperium. They used 1 wold to estblish a genestealer cult and then send more genestealers out into the wider Imperium. By 20:48 Dorn, tell Alpharius of the process that the Tyrannid Hive mind has used dozens of times to perfection against the Imperium. The timing of a Uprising by a Genestealer cult that conincides with the arrival of a Tyrannid Hive Fleet. This strategy has worked disasterously well time and time again, which is why the Inquisition works hard to find and root out the Genestealer cults as soon as they are found and determine the extent of their influence. From 20:00 to 20:12 surrender by assissination of Authority figures is detailed. In the Ultramarines Novel Warriors of Ultramar chapter 12, we see a Tyrannid Lictor single out an Inquistor based off of the pheremone a leader gives off. Another example is a Lictor targets and torments a high ranking member of the Ecclesiarchy on a world prior to Tyrannid consumption.
15:20 -15:50 Rogal and Alpharius' talk about a war won in shadows reminds me starkly of how the Imperium of 40k views victory vs the Imperium under the Emperor of Mankind and the Primarchs. The Great Crusade was publicized and showed the rest of the Galaxy of Humanity's dominance of the Galaxy and to the average human proof that victory over every threat was only a matter of time. They fought to usher a golden age of Humanity. The Imperium merely clings to a shadow of the Emperor's dream and as a result cares only that the Imperium stands regardless of the methods.
From 16:04 to 17:30 it reminds me of how the Imperium of Warhammer 40k actually follows the Ideology of Alpharius to an extent. They care not how harshly order is maintained only that it is maintained and the Administratum's tithes are met. You can also see Dorn's view of rule under one of their own as well. After the Rebellion on Pavonis rule is placed under Cartel Shonai and the other cartels are banned from working and their members.
Just somethings that struck me during this video 4th time around. Let me know what you think and if this makes sense. Feel free to input your own views as well!
Alpharius is such a chad. My fave Primarch & legion
hi i love your channel
Archamus is one of my favorite characters in all of the lore. A true son of Dorn until the end.
Sorry new to the horus heresy books but was just wondering during this conversation where was alpharius's twin omegon?
Omegon will be my next upload 😊
Dorn should have inspected the throne itself closer, I bet that was him.
I would only want the Horus Heresy on the silver screen if only a major Hollywood production would take it. No animation. We cannot repeat the horror of the Ultramarines thing.
Slightly disagree. Done right all cgi could do really well if it's gritty looking enough . Or hell even something akin to 300 might work . I'm just worried it'll look ridiculous if it's a mix of live action/ cgi
@@totallynotalpharius2283 Can't have someone like Zynder touching it or Micheal B. You'd need someone like Neill Blomkamp who makes that weird shit into something magnificent. Personally i like Christopher Nolan, but i think Christopher Nolan would be great for Eisenhorn books or Gaunt. That 300 idea is horrible. Warhammer 40k is already dark, you don't need that kind of 300 special effect and that attempt to make a dark atmosphere cause 40k is grimmer then hell.
What would be epic if they made 2 or 3 movies out of one book. That way they can try and cover as much as they can with out cutting it out and making it into one film.
@@totallynotalpharius2283 understand what you mean.
I think as long as the human aspects of the Astarties are real (face and such) I'll be ok with the rest being CGI. For me, I think it would be clumsy and cosplay looking if they try real armor made for a 8' 600lbs man, and then put a 6' 200bls actor in a metal case, trying be smooth and fluent with they're movements would look sloppy and slow. Don't think it would work. But, to each there own. I like these debates.
Have u seen Astartes? Awesome CGI. Exactly what space marines should be like
By the Emperor ! Despair has reached me ,please somebody tell me the song in the background.
Children of the Omnissia
It pains me to say it but after thinking about it... Alpharius had the better approach (silly meeting theatrics aside) Dorn wanted to needlessly slaughter millions or even billions of potential guardsmen/pdf recruits, military assets and infrastructure so that the current ruling nobility would "probably" stay more loyal in future because they lost all their fighters and military assets in open battle?! I'd say do it like Alpharius did. And if they rebel... send the 8th
Dorm mentions turning them against each other instead of killing then too.
That would sow the seeds for civil war later down the line. “You betrayed the home world! This will never be forgotten” then they start assassinating each other Anyway lol
I'm speeding through this book so I can get your reaction. Love your vids bro no spoilers
Damn. Rogal is a badass.
@3:30 not to worry mister Rho, Henry Cavill is keeping it save !
So devils advocate, maybe Alphy was just testing Dorn. We know that the twins play for every possible outcome, so sizing up another primarch would have been well within reason.
I would be forever grateful if someone could tell me what the backround music is called?
Children of the Ominissiah.
Truth Vs Lies. The Emperor's Praetorian Vs the Warmasters Shadow. The Golden Lord and the Hydra. The one brother that everyone could count on, the predictable, stoic, honest one. Vs the cunning, deceitful, duplicitous, no-one-knows brother. Such a great scene.
I can not imagine Dorn’s “no” any other way than how it is in the tts series now
When you've read every single warhammer book you can, spent hours on wikis and have a spare 20 years of fluff you read, but someone comes out with new details you had no idea on. -_- darn it :D
It's such a shame the Primarchs didn't view their differences as assets as much as they should. The Emperor made them to compliment each other on the battlefield.
I think if a person like Richard Boylan was a director of a movie theater adaptation I would have faith in it. I think that for and subject like this or video games to succeed as movies in live action it need a fan at the head of it as they would have the passion to try to make it the best it can be.
Awesome
I have to say, Alpharius is completely correct in his assessment.
Oh man, I agree with Alpharius?! What I'm Alpharius?
We've told you before. Alpharius lives.
Alpharius returns to us soon brothers.
Rogal dorn was no executioner.
He was a messenger.
I loved this reading. omg! Alpharius is awesome. He just plays at the arrogance and flaws of Dorn. Dorn doesn't even answer about how he has been working with his own flaws. Because Dorn thinks he has no flaws. He can see everyone else's flaws. It never even dawns on him that everything he knows or knew is because Alpharius wanted him to know. Its makes so much sense. Alpharius placed agents obvious to Dorn so that Dorn would believe he knows how to look for them. Alpharius simply and confidently states "you will not find them" this right here is what made me understand that everything Dorn thinks he knew was only because Alpharius let him think he knew on his own. This is why Dorn was ultimately defeated. Dorn believes He is always right and doesnt make mistakes. This was certainly his Downfall on that ship he boarded. The lore says Dorn defeated Alpharius in combat, but it never makes since for Alpharius to really Go toe to toe against Dorn. That has always been kinda off and i think Dorn killing Alpharius and Guilliman killing Omegon will be an errata one day. Seems writers wanted to make things to neat and tidy back then. 😋
Wow im really starting to appreciate alpharius alot more. Id love to see the twins come to be loyalist
You have an amazing voice i love listening to your vidios bro especially the space wolves were you from if you don't mind answering