some quotes I like when mixing: 1) if everything is stereo, nothing is stereo 2) keep the mud (low end) in the middle 3) the wider, the brighter the one thing all of these have in common is that they create contrast (ie; a good mix of both mono & stereo & good, logical placement of low & high frequencies)
Another thing you can try is to pan the guitar reverbs to the opposite side to the guitar. So 2 guitar tracks: The guitar hard panned to the right, send it's reverb hard to the left and visa versa. So each stereo channel pan has it's own guitar plus the reverb from the guitar that is hard panned to the opposite side.
This was a GREAT video. I took your advice with hard panning the guitars and it's absolutely a game changer. I'm enjoying the mixes a lot more. I was always told NOT to hard pan the guitars but it sounds really good with the hard pan. Thanks Joe!
That trick of doubling also works for background vocals and it pushes the main vocal and give it some sort of "bed" to lie on . Works even better if the BG Vocals are in a beautiful harmonie.
I used this technique in a recent Cover Song recording challenge in another group. Same parts, different guitars and amps. I doubled two straight rhythm parts, and two constant riff parts, and ran the screaming lead guitar straight up the middle. Totally works!
I always double track rather than copy/paste/slide...sounds much more natural. An odd trick I do but I swear by it is I actually turn off the other Guitar track. I will often do this if I'm adding a Harmony part as well. I've found the parts come out much tighter as you're not "chasing" the other part
Awesome video! About the phase guitar problems, lets note that most times when we hear music we actually hear the mono mix, we almost never seat on a sweet spot on a stereo system. We actually only listen to stereo with earphones or sitting in a sweet spot.
You know, I've chased guitar sound for a long time. I was shown, Via TH-cam, duplicate and offset. Seeing this, now I can't wait to get home and hear the change. Thanks for this!
Hi Jo....I just love to listen to your sessions, it not only makes sense but you laugh at yourself when little thing go haywire, you make me laugh and wouldn't surprise me if the others laugh as well, you needed to be doing this 10 yrs ago when I first joined Graham with Recordingrevolution as Im still making crap recordings with my made up songs of my own, but i'm never happy with the results, but since you JO stepped into Recording revolution I feel i have excelled so much, even though I've had to postpone getting in my little home studio since my wife went totally blind Last xmas, but since you have taking over I have now finished my first song complete with a great sound when played on my Bose home player, it's just brilliant, when my wife and l listen to this first song it brought tears to her eyes, of coarse that started me off then, but it's all down to you Jo thank you...what I have realised is, it's not Graham's fault as his teaching he did that well, but I would fall asleep after only after a short while, but you make it interesting and fun when your talking, Thank you to Graham for realising how good your friend Jo would be for Recordingrevolution
Sorry to hear about your wife. Can't imagine. Recording music is such a high for me. I too have struggled with getting it sound right. ( for years I might add). Recently I decided to enroll in the slate digital program. ( i am in Plugin Alliance and own hundreds of Wave plugins ) Slate digital offers mix classes as part of their program and I must say that taking the EQ course and the compression course has changed my life. I don't know why, but after viewing these demos it hit me like a ton of bricks that my EQ technique was way off. I took a few of my old finished mixes and applied what I learned. I was astonished. I was able to separate my vocals, clean up mids and highs and created mixes that are so much better. Give Slate a try. They offer 30 days free for the whole program and I just love the compressors and vocal chains. I will be dropping Pluhin Alliance next month after my second year. Best of Luck
Pretty beginner tips which I knew, until the end the general rule of reducing low end the more you pan outwards is not something I've thought of. I'll definitely keep that in mind with future mixes.
Very good video Joe for those that are learning + us. I agree Hard Lft & Rt adding maybe a different EQ, AMP on one side. Also I do on certain songs is to play Guitar out let’s say the left ( Panned Hard ) yet it’s Verb being sent/ Panned to the Right speaker. Very Good effect that I can’t say it’s better but on some Songs that works great as well! Thank you as always Joe. Keep them coming. Love to watch & learn. 🎚🎧🎹🎤George Amodei☺️ ( sorry… yes w/ Keys I use both methods! ☺️
That first do-not-do trick is a Steve Albini trick. He says the sweet spot is 22ms. anything more you get bad phasing. I personally like it for big distorted/fuzzy stuff.
I personally like manipulating audio instead of stacking ghost parts. Sometimes I hear a record of a four piece and think oh, they must’ve got two extra guitarists… nope. My rule-as a ol punk- if you can’t do it live, then don’t do it in the studio. Otherwise you’re blowing smoke.
Im pretty sure... I think that was the behind the scenes thingy I was watching. It’s the same album where he uses an old computer voice mic for the kick beater ha.
Awesome, that's exactly what I do but I also do a Center track as well. I've heard of some pros doing 4 but I am happy with 3 and it's not as hard to mix
Great tip that would have saved me some time if I'd known 5 years ago! What's your best tool for making a single guitar track wider (i.e. you can't record another track on top because you have no idea how to play it?). Reverb send to other channel? A bit of delay?
I had the embarrassing situation of not being able to double my own guitar part when I was in the studio a few months ago. My attitude was, "this is an opportunity to improve," and I started to do that, and then totally manked up the middle finger on my fretting hand (ruptured a tendon!). Hopefully I can get back to working on that soon. I have done the duplicating thing in the past, when I first started out, but was blown away when doubling a track (thankfully I could do it with the vocal) and how fat it sounded.
Great video as always! I still think though that it is getting confusing when you’re representing any of the two channels, espevially when wearing the ”wrong” titled tee. What content goes where? Maybe time to merge content to just ONE channel?
There is one more trick you can do to get a nice and tight double, and this is the trick I prefer. I will use a direct box in between the instrument cable that goes from the guitar to the amp and record a track of the dry guitar tone directly from the guitar itself as well as the mic on the amp. Then I will play that dry recording back out from the DAW to another amp model (for different character) and then toy around with the settings on the amp til I get a good parallel sound and then record that. Afterwords I will mix both of the amp tones in stereo hard panned in the DAW til I have a nice spread sound. Takes extra time but it gives amazing results.
Broad question for rock music: would you use m/s EQ to pull some lows out of the side channels, or would you simply pull the lows down or out with a typical stereo EQ? I worry about guitar low end covering up bass in the center.
Even if you only have a single mono guitar track you can send to a bus with a stereo widener or even the haas delay effect gives a cool stereo image and the mono stays intact.
Confirmation I am doing something right. I actually got the idea to double guitars when I learned the bridge and neck trick for doubling acoustic guitars. Why not also electric guitars. I like to record one track with a Strat, one track with a Les Paul. Thx for sharing God bless
Thanks for your tips as always, but what if i want to make a mono live guitar track a bit wider and fatter after the live gig in post production? Double the track and put some kind of short delay on one chanel and pan for taste? Would be nice if you could give some tips & tricks for making live/rehersal recordings sound even better afterwards.
And i mean crappy live recordings where there are less than ideal mic placement/equipement circumstances and so on. Thanks, as always, for sharing your tips and insights! 😁👍🏻
What I do is double then duplicate left and right with different amps. It sounds so good, so 4 different amps all together, top first L and R more low endy, then 2nd L and R more high endish. Youll be golden,
There's no substitute for real double tracking, but the Beatles used ADT (automatic double tracking) a lot! Basically the same as the copy\paste\drag\pan approach but with an added ingredient, MODULATION! If you add a slight, preferibly random modulation you'll get a very cool, 60's ADT sound! Yes, there'll still be some phasing going on if you listen in mono, but sometimes even real double tracking causes this, especially if the parts and the tones of the two guitars are very similar...listen to some AC\DC song in mono and you'll know what I mean: the guitars don't disappear but they get small, almost boxy, distant, indistinct, quiter and slightly phasey, much less powerful and clear than in stereo. Older music tends to sound better in mono because they rarely double tracked\panned guitars, instead they usually played totally different parts with vastly different tones.
Would it be alright if I had a direct in and amp signal on two mono tracks and then mixed them to a stereo bus? Also could I delay that stereo bus? Or is that the unforgivable sin? Or should I just leave it in mono?! I'm asking if I didn't another overdub.
My first instinct is to always record a second rhythm (or acoustic) guitar and pan hard left and right, so this has never been an issue for me. Aside from the the phasing issue, the first/wrong solution is just a stereo delay, so why not just use that if you can't or don't want to record a second guitar?
When you have guitar doubles like this, I like to record a nice stereo tambourine (with 2 AKG C414 mics, just for schnits and schniggles) and pan them nice and wide too. Mmmm...
If you only have 1 guitar track, depending on the song, I have doubled the track and then had verse 1 and verse 2 playing in verse 1, verse 2 and verse1 in verse 2 etc etc. just cutting, pasting and moving, ensuring that at any point in time the 2 tracks are not playing the same thing. There’s enough variation between the verses for this to work.
How about recording 4, think like judas priest, but for those second huitar dubbed, you pan them switched. Is that a good idea? I thinking of the loss pf the other guitar when in a mono-situation.
What do you do if you have two rhythm guitarists, like many classic rock and metal bands, and you are already panning each to his side, the left player on the stage, panned left, and the right player on the stage, panned right? Do you still double track them and reverse the side? If yes, do you pan the doubled guitars all the way to the opposite side, or leave them on their original side and pan slightly inwards?
I think that's what happens in many metal/rock songs (the one rhythm guitar on one side and the "reverb/delay" track on the other side). Since reverbs are meant to provide a sense of depth and space as they say. An example would be the song, Defeated by Breaking Benjamin. In the chorus, left guitar is playing the rhythm part but you can hear a bit of it on the right side. The right guitar is playing octave leads but you can hear a bit of it on the left side.
Does this work if you're playing only part that you can't change like he has? The first two tracks are slightly different, so what if the riff needs to be the same, do I still record it twice?
Nirvana's Drain You had around 5 guitar layers. The Smashing Pumpkins songs also have many layers more than that, and those still sounds good. Question, how they (or Butch Vig, i guess) combine many guitar tracks and still sounds wide and didn't get "the opposite effect"? Could you explain it on video? or anyone else who read this just reply my comment..
So I went to music production school and they did teach me that "trick" you mentioned in the beginning about duplicating the track and dragging the duplicate a little out of place. BUT, every time i do that, it makes the audio on my speakers/car stereo (you name it) sound like shit. In summary, do not go to music production school lol. Everything you need is here on the beautiful internet people.
I always find changing pickup or even guitar if you’re lucky to have more than one makes it even wider and then EQ each guitar slightly differently find a sweet spot on one boost a little and the cut that same spot just a little on the opposite. Works a treat! That less low end as you move further out to sides is a GEM too, only started doing it recently and it made my centre image and low end SO much cleaner Thanks as always for the stellar info 🙌
Easy to say if you record your own stuff or have option to "fix" stuff yourself. I have a project with a friend of mine. We live 1000 miles apart from each other and he is one of those stubborn guitarists that will never play the same part twice (you can forget about doubling guitars). He drowns everything in excessive reverb and then sends me tracks via email or Dropbox or whatever. I don't play guitar, so I can't fix his parts... Other that that, great video. 😉
Here's a cheat that will work on some songs. With most songs, the sections will repeat, often, three times. So you take the parts, and mix them and match them. So for example, the rhythm from verse 1, is paired with the rhythm from verse 3, the rhythm from chorus 3, is paired with the rhythm from chorus 2, the riff played the second time, is paired with the riff played third time. You get the idea, you can even chop the sections up and pair up the pieces if there's not enough repetition. As long as you don't pair up the same two sections twice, you effectively have two different guitar tracks for the song. It won't work every time, but a lot of the time, it will. Still best to record seperate performances, but done right, on the right song, I doubt anyone could tell the difference. I do this with backing vocals regularly, guitars not so much, but sometimes when guitars are double tracked, they aren't a perfect match, so cutting a bit from another instance of the same guitar part being played can make for a better match. Much better than just duplicating the track
But how would those of us who don't have/play real guitar and use only samples and synths in a DAW to make "digital rock" music. How to "double-record" a guitar sound there?
Don’t double with the same guitar, and if you do, at least use a different pickup. The idea is to fill out the tonal spectrum. Also, you can add a ton of guitar tracks, ask Billy Corgan
So here’s a challenge. 1. Take a direct signal from the first guitar. And compress it a little. On a separate track 2. Slide it forward in time 20 ms 3. Delay it and automate the delay time so that it is oscillating between early and late , like 17-23ms or 15-25 ms 4. Apply amplitude modulation slightly with xtrem 5. Apply pitch modulation 6. Re amp it or amp sim plug in with a different tone. 7. Do not use sync for any modulations. 8. Use splitter to parallel process the signal right side set two mix tools for M/S transform 9. Put early reflection reverb between the mix tool to add early reflections to sides. Adjust mix to blend reflections. Sounds like a lot but remember Studio One drag and drop functions. In the absence of a real double, all of the modulations and different amp tones are pretty convincing and less susceptible to phase issues. A real double provides variation in time, amplitude, tone and pitch. As does this technique. Yes a real double is still better
Nope. In his example the tone is different but you can record identical parts twice and pan hard left and right. I do it all the time for metal. No phase if it’s a tight performance and still in tune. Record a small clip and try it yourself to find out.
Don't High Pass the guitars too much though, you'll start to lose the balls on the sides. 80Hz HPF with a 12dB/octave slope is usually fine for rock guitars.
Doubling guitars has been around since the '80's. Randy Rhoades did this all the time, that's where I learned it. Sounds more natural and makes the cumulative part jump out.
@@threepe0 True, he wasnt.. He "did this" , actually. He would play the part again, 99% carbon copy..He even doubled( played note for note) his solos too. I read this a long time ago in an '80's Guitar mag, look it up
I think you dragged the track to much, I recoded this guy and used that technique and it sounds great th-cam.com/video/lmkQLkEpo08/w-d-xo.html CC is English
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 64 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "พาร์แฮม vs จอร์แดน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yg2mS5U2aB8/mqdefault.jpg)
some quotes I like when mixing:
1) if everything is stereo, nothing is stereo
2) keep the mud (low end) in the middle
3) the wider, the brighter
the one thing all of these have in common is that they create contrast (ie; a good mix of both mono & stereo & good, logical placement of low & high frequencies)
what if you are recording muddy shoegaze/doom metal, the. guitars in that are usually muddy
Another thing you can try is to pan the guitar reverbs to the opposite side to the guitar.
So 2 guitar tracks: The guitar hard panned to the right, send it's reverb hard to the left and visa versa. So each stereo channel pan has it's own guitar plus the reverb from the guitar that is hard panned to the opposite side.
yep... I will do a bit of reverb on the opposite side and then a bit of delay on the opposite side of that as well.
Love your enthusiasm, Joe. And the lesson is always worth a view. Thanks.
This was a GREAT video. I took your advice with hard panning the guitars and it's absolutely a game changer. I'm enjoying the mixes a lot more. I was always told NOT to hard pan the guitars but it sounds really good with the hard pan. Thanks Joe!
"The instruments wider should be brighter" is a great tip! Thanks Joe!!
That trick of doubling also works for background vocals and it pushes the main vocal and give it some sort of "bed" to lie on . Works even better if the BG Vocals are in a beautiful harmonie.
I used this technique in a recent Cover Song recording challenge in another group. Same parts, different guitars and amps. I doubled two straight rhythm parts, and two constant riff parts, and ran the screaming lead guitar straight up the middle. Totally works!
I always double track rather than copy/paste/slide...sounds much more natural. An odd trick I do but I swear by it is I actually turn off the other Guitar track. I will often do this if I'm adding a Harmony part as well. I've found the parts come out much tighter as you're not "chasing" the other part
For sure. I do four clean overdubs with different amp and pick up settings, 6 overdubs for big distortions
Excellent, thank you.
Awesome video!
About the phase guitar problems, lets note that most times when we hear music we actually hear the mono mix, we almost never seat on a sweet spot on a stereo system. We actually only listen to stereo with earphones or sitting in a sweet spot.
Very good stuff, Joe
You know, I've chased guitar sound for a long time. I was shown, Via TH-cam, duplicate and offset. Seeing this, now I can't wait to get home and hear the change. Thanks for this!
Hi Jo....I just love to listen to your sessions, it not only makes sense but you laugh at yourself when little thing go haywire, you make me laugh and wouldn't surprise me if the others laugh as well, you needed to be doing this 10 yrs ago when I first joined Graham with Recordingrevolution as Im still making crap recordings with my made up songs of my own, but i'm never happy with the results, but since you JO stepped into Recording revolution I feel i have excelled so much, even though I've had to postpone getting in my little home studio since my wife went totally blind Last xmas, but since you have taking over I have now finished my first song complete with a great sound when played on my Bose home player, it's just brilliant, when my wife and l listen to this first song it brought tears to her eyes, of coarse that started me off then, but it's all down to you Jo thank you...what I have realised is, it's not Graham's fault as his teaching he did that well, but I would fall asleep after only after a short while, but you make it interesting and fun when your talking, Thank you to Graham for realising how good your friend Jo would be for Recordingrevolution
Sorry to hear about your wife. Can't imagine. Recording music is such a high for me. I too have struggled with getting it sound right. ( for years I might add). Recently I decided to enroll in the slate digital program. ( i am in Plugin Alliance and own hundreds of Wave plugins ) Slate digital offers mix classes as part of their program and I must say that taking the EQ course and the compression course has changed my life. I don't know why, but after viewing these demos it hit me like a ton of bricks that my EQ technique was way off. I took a few of my old finished mixes and applied what I learned. I was astonished. I was able to separate my vocals, clean up mids and highs and created mixes that are so much better. Give Slate a try. They offer 30 days free for the whole program and I just love the compressors and vocal chains. I will be dropping Pluhin Alliance next month after my second year. Best of Luck
Thank you so much for a great tip
Pretty beginner tips which I knew, until the end the general rule of reducing low end the more you pan outwards is not something I've thought of. I'll definitely keep that in mind with future mixes.
Same here
Very cool! Thanks buddy 🤓
Very good video Joe for those that are learning + us. I agree Hard Lft & Rt adding maybe a different EQ, AMP on one side. Also I do on certain songs is to play Guitar out let’s say the left ( Panned Hard ) yet it’s Verb being sent/ Panned to the Right speaker. Very Good effect that I can’t say it’s better but on some Songs that works great as well! Thank you as always Joe. Keep them coming. Love to watch & learn. 🎚🎧🎹🎤George Amodei☺️ ( sorry… yes w/ Keys I use both methods! ☺️
Top bloke, changed my game for the better. Thanks Joe.
Cool tips, Joe. I'll be emulating from now on!
“This sh- THESE shenanigans” 😂 4:32
Nice tip, thanx!
Love the vids👊🏼 Can you do a how to make a 2 track mix bled better vocals etc
That first do-not-do trick is a Steve Albini trick. He says the sweet spot is 22ms. anything more you get bad phasing. I personally like it for big distorted/fuzzy stuff.
Ken Andrews does it too, he likes 20ms
I personally like manipulating audio instead of stacking ghost parts. Sometimes I hear a record of a four piece and think oh, they must’ve got two extra guitarists… nope. My rule-as a ol punk- if you can’t do it live, then don’t do it in the studio. Otherwise you’re blowing smoke.
did he do that on In Utero or not?
Im pretty sure... I think that was the behind the scenes thingy I was watching. It’s the same album where he uses an old computer voice mic for the kick beater ha.
Record a second track with a different guitar and it will sound bigger
Amazing
Killer advice dude 🙏
Awesome, that's exactly what I do but I also do a Center track as well. I've heard of some pros doing 4 but I am happy with 3 and it's not as hard to mix
Great tip that would have saved me some time if I'd known 5 years ago! What's your best tool for making a single guitar track wider (i.e. you can't record another track on top because you have no idea how to play it?). Reverb send to other channel? A bit of delay?
Thankyou ❤
I had the embarrassing situation of not being able to double my own guitar part when I was in the studio a few months ago. My attitude was, "this is an opportunity to improve," and I started to do that, and then totally manked up the middle finger on my fretting hand (ruptured a tendon!). Hopefully I can get back to working on that soon. I have done the duplicating thing in the past, when I first started out, but was blown away when doubling a track (thankfully I could do it with the vocal) and how fat it sounded.
I love your 'goosebumps alert' 😁
Hey Joe, it would be nice if at the end you showed how it would sounds in mono.
Great video as always! I still think though that it is getting confusing when you’re representing any of the two channels, espevially when wearing the ”wrong” titled tee. What content goes where? Maybe time to merge content to just ONE channel?
On reaper if you use the stock chorus plugin turn down the depth and rate and remove the dry you can make second guitar track without rerecording
There is one more trick you can do to get a nice and tight double, and this is the trick I prefer. I will use a direct box in between the instrument cable that goes from the guitar to the amp and record a track of the dry guitar tone directly from the guitar itself as well as the mic on the amp. Then I will play that dry recording back out from the DAW to another amp model (for different character) and then toy around with the settings on the amp til I get a good parallel sound and then record that. Afterwords I will mix both of the amp tones in stereo hard panned in the DAW til I have a nice spread sound. Takes extra time but it gives amazing results.
Compress the mid channel, it will make the side pop out more leaving space in the center of your mix for other instruments
Broad question for rock music: would you use m/s EQ to pull some lows out of the side channels, or would you simply pull the lows down or out with a typical stereo EQ? I worry about guitar low end covering up bass in the center.
Even if you only have a single mono guitar track you can send to a bus with a stereo widener or even the haas delay effect gives a cool stereo image and the mono stays intact.
Confirmation I am doing something right. I actually got the idea to double guitars when I learned the bridge and neck trick for doubling acoustic guitars. Why not also electric guitars. I like to record one track with a Strat, one track with a Les Paul. Thx for sharing God bless
Thanks for your tips as always, but what if i want to make a mono live guitar track a bit wider and fatter after the live gig in post production? Double the track and put some kind of short delay on one chanel and pan for taste? Would be nice if you could give some tips & tricks for making live/rehersal recordings sound even better afterwards.
And i mean crappy live recordings where there are less than ideal mic placement/equipement
circumstances and so on.
Thanks, as always, for sharing your tips and insights! 😁👍🏻
Duplicate and chop up the track. Example - take the verse 2 and paste in as Verse 1. I've gone so far as to chop up half measures.
Would this work well for a fingerpicked guitar track? Seems much harder to be sufficiently accurate, but I am not sure. Thoughts?
What I do is double then duplicate left and right with different amps. It sounds so good, so 4 different amps all together, top first L and R more low endy, then 2nd L and R more high endish. Youll be golden,
There's no substitute for real double tracking, but the Beatles used ADT (automatic double tracking) a lot! Basically the same as the copy\paste\drag\pan approach but with an added ingredient, MODULATION! If you add a slight, preferibly random modulation you'll get a very cool, 60's ADT sound! Yes, there'll still be some phasing going on if you listen in mono, but sometimes even real double tracking causes this, especially if the parts and the tones of the two guitars are very similar...listen to some AC\DC song in mono and you'll know what I mean: the guitars don't disappear but they get small, almost boxy, distant, indistinct, quiter and slightly phasey, much less powerful and clear than in stereo. Older music tends to sound better in mono because they rarely double tracked\panned guitars, instead they usually played totally different parts with vastly different tones.
Would it be alright if I had a direct in and amp signal on two mono tracks and then mixed them to a stereo bus? Also could I delay that stereo bus? Or is that the unforgivable sin? Or should I just leave it in mono?! I'm asking if I didn't another overdub.
My first instinct is to always record a second rhythm (or acoustic) guitar and pan hard left and right, so this has never been an issue for me. Aside from the the phasing issue, the first/wrong solution is just a stereo delay, so why not just use that if you can't or don't want to record a second guitar?
When you have guitar doubles like this, I like to record a nice stereo tambourine (with 2 AKG C414 mics, just for schnits and schniggles) and pan them nice and wide too. Mmmm...
If you only have 1 guitar track, depending on the song, I have doubled the track and then had verse 1 and verse 2 playing in verse 1, verse 2 and verse1 in verse 2 etc etc. just cutting, pasting and moving, ensuring that at any point in time the 2 tracks are not playing the same thing. There’s enough variation between the verses for this to work.
I do this as well!!!
How about recording 4, think like judas priest, but for those second huitar dubbed, you pan them switched. Is that a good idea? I thinking of the loss pf the other guitar when in a mono-situation.
Will there be less or absolutely no phase issue in double tracking (if it is listened in mono)?
Do plugins like Wider an bx_solo create a similar problem to what's described initially?
What do you do if you have two rhythm guitarists, like many classic rock and metal bands, and you are already panning each to his side, the left player on the stage, panned left, and the right player on the stage, panned right? Do you still double track them and reverse the side? If yes, do you pan the doubled guitars all the way to the opposite side, or leave them on their original side and pan slightly inwards?
I think that's what happens in many metal/rock songs (the one rhythm guitar on one side and the "reverb/delay" track on the other side). Since reverbs are meant to provide a sense of depth and space as they say.
An example would be the song, Defeated by Breaking Benjamin. In the chorus, left guitar is playing the rhythm part but you can hear a bit of it on the right side. The right guitar is playing octave leads but you can hear a bit of it on the left side.
that’s great when you get another guitar track down. How can i get wide sound with a single stereo track? it’s only a doubled track?
Does this work if you're playing only part that you can't change like he has?
The first two tracks are slightly different, so what if the riff needs to be the same, do I still record it twice?
Nice singing.
Does the same apply for lead guitar parts too?
Nirvana's Drain You had around 5 guitar layers. The Smashing Pumpkins songs also have many layers more than that, and those still sounds good.
Question, how they (or Butch Vig, i guess) combine many guitar tracks and still sounds wide and didn't get "the opposite effect"?
Could you explain it on video? or anyone else who read this just reply my comment..
They don't play the same frequency area (similar with different EQ ranges) and often play alternative notes/structures with varied saturation.
So I went to music production school and they did teach me that "trick" you mentioned in the beginning about duplicating the track and dragging the duplicate a little out of place. BUT, every time i do that, it makes the audio on my speakers/car stereo (you name it) sound like shit. In summary, do not go to music production school lol. Everything you need is here on the beautiful internet people.
When Phil Specter recorded his wall of sound with many guitar players playing at the same time, did that work because he recorded in mono?
I always find changing pickup or even guitar if you’re lucky to have more than one makes it even wider
and then EQ each guitar slightly differently find a sweet spot on one boost a little and the cut that same spot just a little on the opposite. Works a treat!
That less low end as you move further out to sides is a GEM too, only started doing it recently and it made my centre image and low end SO much cleaner
Thanks as always for the stellar info 🙌
I’ve love double Tracked guitar 🎸 My question is I see a stereo track should I record in stereo 2 waveforms ?
Record 2 mono tracks and pan them left and right. No idea why he shows stereo-tracks in this.
@@mikedamisch YUP always do the Mono so ... ???? 😁
Easy to say if you record your own stuff or have option to "fix" stuff yourself. I have a project with a friend of mine. We live 1000 miles apart from each other and he is one of those stubborn guitarists that will never play the same part twice (you can forget about doubling guitars). He drowns everything in excessive reverb and then sends me tracks via email or Dropbox or whatever.
I don't play guitar, so I can't fix his parts...
Other that that, great video. 😉
Share this video with him. Also tell him to print his reverbs and delays separately from his actual guitar recordings.
@@charlessellers5594 Do you think I haven't tried? 🤣
Here's a cheat that will work on some songs.
With most songs, the sections will repeat, often, three times. So you take the parts, and mix them and match them. So for example, the rhythm from verse 1, is paired with the rhythm from verse 3, the rhythm from chorus 3, is paired with the rhythm from chorus 2, the riff played the second time, is paired with the riff played third time.
You get the idea, you can even chop the sections up and pair up the pieces if there's not enough repetition.
As long as you don't pair up the same two sections twice, you effectively have two different guitar tracks for the song.
It won't work every time, but a lot of the time, it will. Still best to record seperate performances, but done right, on the right song, I doubt anyone could tell the difference.
I do this with backing vocals regularly, guitars not so much, but sometimes when guitars are double tracked, they aren't a perfect match, so cutting a bit from another instance of the same guitar part being played can make for a better match.
Much better than just duplicating the track
Uh oh. Paul had better re-record his vocal for the stereo version of "Ob-La-Di".
But how to achieve this effect, if you're not recording your guitar, but programming them in Ample guitar, for example?
Use a diff guitar preset
Haas effect?
But how would those of us who don't have/play real guitar and use only samples and synths in a DAW to make "digital rock" music. How to "double-record" a guitar sound there?
Don’t double with the same guitar, and if you do, at least use a different pickup. The idea is to fill out the tonal spectrum. Also, you can add a ton of guitar tracks, ask Billy Corgan
Doubletrack, yes. But how to mix two doubletracks from two different mics, four mono tracks?
but what if it's a vst performance
So here’s a challenge.
1. Take a direct signal from the first guitar. And compress it a little. On a separate track
2. Slide it forward in time 20 ms
3. Delay it and automate the delay time so that it is oscillating between early and late , like 17-23ms or 15-25 ms
4. Apply amplitude modulation slightly with xtrem
5. Apply pitch modulation
6. Re amp it or amp sim plug in
with a different tone.
7. Do not use sync for any modulations.
8. Use splitter to parallel process the signal right side set two mix tools for M/S transform
9. Put early reflection reverb between the mix tool to add early reflections to sides. Adjust mix to blend reflections.
Sounds like a lot but remember Studio One drag and drop functions.
In the absence of a real double, all of the modulations and different amp tones are pretty convincing and less susceptible to phase issues.
A real double provides variation in time, amplitude, tone and pitch. As does this technique.
Yes a real double is still better
ha, ha. Just reading all that is exhausting. I think I'll just record a second track, as you say at the end.
@@eugeneburns6124 yeah but you only have to set it up once if you’re using Studio One
How do we feel about re-recording the guitar with the same parts and splitting them L/R? Will that cause phase issues as well?
Nope. In his example the tone is different but you can record identical parts twice and pan hard left and right. I do it all the time for metal. No phase if it’s a tight performance and still in tune. Record a small clip and try it yourself to find out.
So funny. You've had your fun but seriously stop doing it. Haha. So true good video.
But, how many people work in this channel?!
Joe, I'm confused. Did you take over the channel
Don't High Pass the guitars too much though, you'll start to lose the balls on the sides. 80Hz HPF with a 12dB/octave slope is usually fine for rock guitars.
According to Neil Young 11 or 12 sounds Celestial.
billy corgan recorded like 40 tracks LOL!
Doubling guitars has been around since the '80's. Randy Rhoades did this all the time, that's where I learned it. Sounds more natural and makes the cumulative part jump out.
Randy Rhoades was not a mix engineer. He did not “do this.”
@@threepe0 True, he wasnt.. He "did this" , actually. He would play the part again, 99% carbon copy..He even doubled( played note for note) his solos too. I read this a long time ago in an '80's Guitar mag, look it up
it looks as if you have normalized everything too. True? thanks for all you do good sir
I think you dragged the track to much, I recoded this guy and used that technique and it sounds great th-cam.com/video/lmkQLkEpo08/w-d-xo.html CC is English
🦹♀🦹♀🦹♀🦹♀ lovely