Thank you for the stream) Showcasing the work in progress is extremely appreciated, I love the openness and the engagement with the community. Looking forward to design some train logistics in the factory)
The train physics are pretty nice. They don't have to be perfectly realistic, just approximately. One big factor that I wish will be implemented is rolling resistance in curves. Trains have almost zero rolling resistance in a straight vs in the tightest turn that CoI allows, this small locomotive would struggle to move the train at all.
@@CaptainOfIndustryGame I'm glad you like it. I used to work in railroading and this immediately caught my eye. At low speed, tractive effort is really just a question of total weight, acceleration, gradient and curve radius. Air resistance is only important for high speed trains, that's why they're bullet shaped.
Hey guys, this was a waste of time. The maps are too tiny for trains. You gave in to people demanding them. What comes next? Enemies? Those people should play Factorio or Satisfactory. We love COI because it's realistic and a 36 km² island does not need train transport.
Still loving the thought process and really appreciate the chance for Steam trains. I'm consistently amazed at the quality of the work and look of this game.
I like the way Trains fit in with the logistics here, I've been loving this game since i saw it on steam, keep up the great work, I'll throw in a few ideas i had while watching that i either didn't see mentioned or such: Shunting yards: instead of the train returning to the depo itself to attach/ detach cars they could be done at shunting yards, these could also have newly built cars added to them and transported via a regular train passing by or set as a way point and the Trainyard could have a wagonyard upgrade that has its own train unit to transport, additionally shunting yards could be set to have an already loaded set of wagons so a train can detach the unloading ones and attach the loaded ones, maybe as an advanced logistics thing. Wagon Yard: either as a seperate building or attachable building to the Trainyard, so you can build wagons faster/ more wagons and have an attachable shunting yard to set them up, that way it would be both more realistic and a bit easier to set trains up. Upgradable switch: Could work much like a balencer, first stage has the non priority train come to a stop, when its upgraded it consumes power but has the non primary train slow down enough to let the priority train pass then speeds up. (this could take some tinkering with code to get right though). Merge/pass switches: Like above but lets trains pass if one is entering a station to unload and one behind isnt or allows 2 tracks to merge, would be similar to above (maybe an advanced train logistics tech thing). Level Crossing: I imagine this could be done like a balencer, you could even select if the train or vehicles have priority (though it makes more sense for the train to have priority) vehicles stop and calculate with the crossing if a train is due, if no train they can cross, if train coming then stop (maybe have a special track piece that detects the train and is linked to the crossing like how mine control towers have set vehicles/ or its assigned to the trains on that track with a calculation to its estimated time of arrival). Flatbed Wagon (Vehicle): Could work if you have them assignable and an animation like they line then sorta teleport onto the wagon and off again, or you could have a new cargo type like "Incomplete excavator" and its loaded/ unloaded at a "Vehicle Assembler" (this would be a good way of transporting Mega vehicles around the map, so it might just be a Mega Vehicle thing). Water tower: Steam train building to keep water in the boiler over long distance (could also be turned off on easy or just a realistic setting thing like ore sorting) could also have coal storage upgrade/ attachment. Vehicle bridge train: Could be small, medium and large to allow vehicles to bridge over train tracks like the others do for pipes and belts (could be done if it was made like a track piece? just with a bridge going over at the appropriate height). Nuclear trains: Could be an upgrade option and the water towers could have some nuclear fuel storage to keep it fueled and watered, Possible upgrade could be molten salt reactor ( so it can be refueld like the fast breeder reactor) but that would be about the same level of research. Steam trains: could also have a higher polution penalty and more workers but less and lower teir of maintenence (so it won't immediatly be skipped over and it would make sense that it is less complicated to work on due to already having coal boilers and lots of coal intensive industry already). Upgradable Tracks: Tracks having the ability to be upgraded like belts and pipes, i.e Light Rail: can handle tier 1 trains at full speed but teir 2 and 3 trains have to reduce speed, Medium Rail: Adds canterlevers for electric trains, Teir 2 trains and lower can travel at full speed but teir 3 trains need to slow down, Heavy Rail: all trains travel at full speed. Electric injector (not sure what its called) : Acts like the transformer in the settlements and adds electricity to medium and heavy rails. Train Service yard: comes in 3 teirs corrospnding to train and rail teir and can either act like the statues of maintenence or act like the maintenence buildings in game and have a similar system (this is where the Steam train would differ as it would only drain either teir 1 or 2 maintenence (i'd say same about the same as coal boiler, maybe with an extra 5 or such if teir 1 or maybe just over half of the diesel trains). anyway the above are just ideas i hope may help with getting over the hurdles when it comes to implementing new stuff. Cheers and as i said, keep up the great work.
balancer* separate* maintenance* tier* pollution* immediately* You also might consider separating your ideas with an additional blank line to help people read your thoughts more easily.
A great reference for a train system design is OpenTTD. It is pretty complex though. But at the same time it has a very similar vibe to CoI. 1 thing to add for schedules is that in OTTD it not only resolves the routing(what stations a train should go next), but also it is used to spread trains evenly on the route. Which is super important if you have multiple trains on the same route. Without a timed schedule they will eventually pile up, start blocking one another and the overall efficiency drops.
Cant wait to see the depiction of steam vs diesel locomotives if you decide to go forward with steam. Steam having higher raw power but needing much more infrastructure and maintenance vs the simple diesel that is relatively cheap and easy to use would be a great dynamic and portray the dilemma railroads went through during the transition era
checked it on steam but the game is too pricy for me atm but i really liked it, watching you guys made me like it even more,wish you the best of wishes, you deserve the success because of your state of mind approaching this so I'm cheering for you guys! keep up the good work!
Could you add a mining machine that works riding the rail line Bucket-wheel excavator. That has the bucket/60 capacity of 3 mega excavator for mid to late game mining.
i hope. i can receive this game for free. because i download and play from the other sources. i played this game since 5 days old of this game. sorry for my english.. :( but i really want this game so much. sorry
Even if trucks were more efficient than trains for throughput, the maintenance cost is what you'd really want to look at. I assume that trains would be cheaper maintenance over time than trucks. So while trucks, per ton, could have better throughput, the amount of maintenance (and fuel) needed would be higher.
The train system would feel weird without signals. There are many games that use the block between signals which works well if you use the signals right. but simplest signals i have seen is Transport fever 2, but the most enjoyable is factorio and satisfactory. Seems a silly to go to the effort and complexity of train physics and then skip on signals. I like the idea of stations created for specific items and a train moving between destination stations and supply stations, that way trains can wait at the supply station and not be in the way of other trains, like satisfactory uses. Using trains like trucks feels counter intuitive to the way trains typically work.
I love the talk about innovating on signal mechanics. Honestly, the idea of "non-blocking zones" is how I think about chain signals 90% of the time anyway, so it makes sense to just define those zones directly. Good luck!
you should make a coal hopper for the steam loco and water tower and for diesel would be like a fuel depot and make a factory that can produce diesel for the steam you could also use wood and water has fuel and or coal and water
"Steam engines can't take tight curves" Sir let me introduce you to the Garratt locomotive, a steam engine designed to emulate the massive US engines, on the tight rails of the UK.
42:29 I would expect air drag to also be affected by the surface area of the train carts, maybe especially the front surface area: i.e. more carts, more air drag, but also replacing smaller carts with fewer large carts should reduce air drag.
Air drag is currently affected by frontal area as well as the number of wagons, longer train having slightly more air drag than shorter ones. Air drag also depends on wagon shapes slightly.
Promising... Why not use splines to trace the paths? I don't have the GOD and remove all trees functions in the console, is this only for developers? How can you have more workers (2059) than population (1140)?
1 more thing I hope to see some underground x ray tool. I like to bery my pipes underground is little bit difficult but it's posable. Make thing more cleaner. + this one it be really nice when doing some strategy build witha blue prints it's stays in place wahil ground works going on instead of they demolish by tham self cuz ther is no ground support jus for laying pipes.
I'd rather see path signals that are superior but more demanding for computing power so better have both. You can spam block signlas on simple one-way section but then you can place just a few but more powerful path singlas that calculate path rather then reserve whole block so you don't need so many block signals, chain signals and also spacing between tracks that is often even impossible for signals to be palced in most games.
Interesting, but I have some questions: 1) what about rail+road crossing? or only briges will be awailable? 2) routing of trains, how it will work? 3) logistic automatization of trainz? will it be? how it will look like (as LTN in Factorio or "Train distribution office" in Workers&Resourses )? 4) will You make some kind of "logistic zones" to prevent car from serving faraway industry?
1) Some ramps/bridges or level-crossings. We are not sure yet but it will be definitely possible to cross railroad with trucks. 2) Either via list of stations, or automatic truck-like train logistics, or both. 3) Too early to tell, we will share more details as these systems are more refined.
Multiple locomotives combine their power as if it was one. If you put enough locomotives, they will be able to climb hills fast, but likely not on max speed.
Yes, loaded train have more mass, thus more inertia and more rolling friction, resulting in slower acceleration and deceleration. We are still working on signal systems.
You are right, but if a train is longer than the size of the first block after the last chain signal, the train may still block the chain-signal-protected area, diminishing the advantages of chain signals for longer trains.
@@CaptainOfIndustryGame that's why there are semaphores and their repeaters, if the blocks are not of equal length, e.g. intersecting tracks, we are playing a game where you have to think, so let's not make it easier with the railway, because in my opinion it is impossible to do without signals because, either one railway will follow the other and wait for the first one to start, or one track will be a closed loop just for it
Interesting idea, perhaps on "realistic trains" difficulty, but not by default. Rain should probably lower the starting tractive effort and perhaps reduce rolling friction a little. Would that mean that on flat track trains would go faster due to less rolling friction? :)
How do you plan to handle tracks construction? Currently, everything is constructed by trucks delivering materials. However, I think there will be situations that you want to build train tracks in areas unreachable by trucks.
Did you forget about Unity? I think most of the more 'hardcore" players just use Unity for building since trucks take time, maintenance, and fuel to construct things with. Unity is instant, as long as the materials are available.
No please not. The difficulty in this game comes entirely by managing your resources and pollution because it affects health. This game doesn't need some sort of Factorio like enemies artificially stamped on it.
Usually when people (including the Factorio devs) complain about a particular transportation method 'ruining" gameplay, it's drones. I've never heard people complain about the existence of trains, only occasionally the tedium of setting up signal networks which the COI devs want to eliminate.
@@davidstocker2278 Of course you will be able to play to the endgame without trains. A bunch of tier 3 belts/pipes are gonna do the same job as a tier 3 train. If you're worried everything gets balanced so that you'll almost be forced to use trains in the late game, download a mod that adds tier 4 belts and pipes.
The difference between doing it with love and doing it for money, congratulations, it’s fantastic.
absolutly agree on this one.
Awesome update, really looking forward to it!
i didnt get to ask live, but would love to know if trains can cross spans of water/ocean?
Bridges will come eventually, we are not sure if we'd be able to make them happen for Update 3.
Thank you for the stream) Showcasing the work in progress is extremely appreciated, I love the openness and the engagement with the community. Looking forward to design some train logistics in the factory)
The train physics are pretty nice. They don't have to be perfectly realistic, just approximately. One big factor that I wish will be implemented is rolling resistance in curves. Trains have almost zero rolling resistance in a straight vs in the tightest turn that CoI allows, this small locomotive would struggle to move the train at all.
Variable rolling resistance based on a curve radius is an interesting idea, thanks for the suggestion!
@@CaptainOfIndustryGame I'm glad you like it. I used to work in railroading and this immediately caught my eye. At low speed, tractive effort is really just a question of total weight, acceleration, gradient and curve radius. Air resistance is only important for high speed trains, that's why they're bullet shaped.
It would be 10/10 to have a modern train engine
Feedback: THIS IS FUCKING AWESOME!!!!!!
TLDR: I loved it.
XD
Hey guys, this was a waste of time. The maps are too tiny for trains. You gave in to people demanding them. What comes next? Enemies? Those people should play Factorio or Satisfactory. We love COI because it's realistic and a 36 km² island does not need train transport.
Critical sections instead of signals is a very interesting idea. Good luck implementing it!
Still loving the thought process and really appreciate the chance for Steam trains. I'm consistently amazed at the quality of the work and look of this game.
I like the way Trains fit in with the logistics here, I've been loving this game since i saw it on steam, keep up the great work,
I'll throw in a few ideas i had while watching that i either didn't see mentioned or such:
Shunting yards: instead of the train returning to the depo itself to attach/ detach cars they could be done at shunting yards, these could also have newly built cars added to them and transported via a regular train passing by or set as a way point and the Trainyard could have a wagonyard upgrade that has its own train unit to transport, additionally shunting yards could be set to have an already loaded set of wagons so a train can detach the unloading ones and attach the loaded ones, maybe as an advanced logistics thing.
Wagon Yard: either as a seperate building or attachable building to the Trainyard, so you can build wagons faster/ more wagons and have an attachable shunting yard to set them up, that way it would be both more realistic and a bit easier to set trains up.
Upgradable switch: Could work much like a balencer, first stage has the non priority train come to a stop, when its upgraded it consumes power but has the non primary train slow down enough to let the priority train pass then speeds up. (this could take some tinkering with code to get right though).
Merge/pass switches: Like above but lets trains pass if one is entering a station to unload and one behind isnt or allows 2 tracks to merge, would be similar to above (maybe an advanced train logistics tech thing).
Level Crossing: I imagine this could be done like a balencer, you could even select if the train or vehicles have priority (though it makes more sense for the train to have priority) vehicles stop and calculate with the crossing if a train is due, if no train they can cross, if train coming then stop (maybe have a special track piece that detects the train and is linked to the crossing like how mine control towers have set vehicles/ or its assigned to the trains on that track with a calculation to its estimated time of arrival).
Flatbed Wagon (Vehicle): Could work if you have them assignable and an animation like they line then sorta teleport onto the wagon and off again, or you could have a new cargo type like "Incomplete excavator" and its loaded/ unloaded at a "Vehicle Assembler" (this would be a good way of transporting Mega vehicles around the map, so it might just be a Mega Vehicle thing).
Water tower: Steam train building to keep water in the boiler over long distance (could also be turned off on easy or just a realistic setting thing like ore sorting) could also have coal storage upgrade/ attachment.
Vehicle bridge train: Could be small, medium and large to allow vehicles to bridge over train tracks like the others do for pipes and belts (could be done if it was made like a track piece? just with a bridge going over at the appropriate height).
Nuclear trains: Could be an upgrade option and the water towers could have some nuclear fuel storage to keep it fueled and watered, Possible upgrade could be molten salt reactor ( so it can be refueld like the fast breeder reactor) but that would be about the same level of research.
Steam trains: could also have a higher polution penalty and more workers but less and lower teir of maintenence (so it won't immediatly be skipped over and it would make sense that it is less complicated to work on due to already having coal boilers and lots of coal intensive industry already).
Upgradable Tracks: Tracks having the ability to be upgraded like belts and pipes, i.e Light Rail: can handle tier 1 trains at full speed but teir 2 and 3 trains have to reduce speed, Medium Rail: Adds canterlevers for electric trains, Teir 2 trains and lower can travel at full speed but teir 3 trains need to slow down, Heavy Rail: all trains travel at full speed.
Electric injector (not sure what its called) : Acts like the transformer in the settlements and adds electricity to medium and heavy rails.
Train Service yard: comes in 3 teirs corrospnding to train and rail teir and can either act like the statues of maintenence or act like the maintenence buildings in game and have a similar system (this is where the Steam train would differ as it would only drain either teir 1 or 2 maintenence (i'd say same about the same as coal boiler, maybe with an extra 5 or such if teir 1 or maybe just over half of the diesel trains).
anyway the above are just ideas i hope may help with getting over the hurdles when it comes to implementing new stuff.
Cheers and as i said, keep up the great work.
balancer*
separate*
maintenance*
tier*
pollution*
immediately*
You also might consider separating your ideas with an additional blank line to help people read your thoughts more easily.
Amazing! I have always wanted to se this in CoI having loved Satsifactory's trains. So excited for this update :)
CAN YOU ADD TURKISH SUBTİTLES??
Looks great Marek. I look forward to seeing these in game.
nice work. the game is so cool now and will be perfect with trains...
great stream, will we ever get the ability to make tunnels ? both for vehicles and for trains.
Eventually.... Tunnels are hard in a game with fully dynamic terrain.
I see what you mean with the signals and like the idea that you explain however I also love the visuals of a red/green light.
A great reference for a train system design is OpenTTD. It is pretty complex though. But at the same time it has a very similar vibe to CoI.
1 thing to add for schedules is that in OTTD it not only resolves the routing(what stations a train should go next), but also it is used to spread trains evenly on the route. Which is super important if you have multiple trains on the same route. Without a timed schedule they will eventually pile up, start blocking one another and the overall efficiency drops.
Cant wait to see the depiction of steam vs diesel locomotives if you decide to go forward with steam. Steam having higher raw power but needing much more infrastructure and maintenance vs the simple diesel that is relatively cheap and easy to use would be a great dynamic and portray the dilemma railroads went through during the transition era
checked it on steam but the game is too pricy for me atm but i really liked it, watching you guys made me like it even more,wish you the best of wishes, you deserve the success because of your state of mind approaching this so I'm cheering for you guys! keep up the good work!
Amazing! Impressive how good it's looking so early
TRAINS
Could you add a mining machine that works riding the rail line
Bucket-wheel excavator. That has the bucket/60 capacity of 3 mega excavator for mid to late game mining.
i hope. i can receive this game for free. because i download and play from the other sources. i played this game since 5 days old of this game. sorry for my english.. :( but i really want this game so much. sorry
Even if trucks were more efficient than trains for throughput, the maintenance cost is what you'd really want to look at. I assume that trains would be cheaper maintenance over time than trucks. So while trucks, per ton, could have better throughput, the amount of maintenance (and fuel) needed would be higher.
The train system would feel weird without signals. There are many games that use the block between signals which works well if you use the signals right. but simplest signals i have seen is Transport fever 2, but the most enjoyable is factorio and satisfactory. Seems a silly to go to the effort and complexity of train physics and then skip on signals. I like the idea of stations created for specific items and a train moving between destination stations and supply stations, that way trains can wait at the supply station and not be in the way of other trains, like satisfactory uses. Using trains like trucks feels counter intuitive to the way trains typically work.
I love the talk about innovating on signal mechanics. Honestly, the idea of "non-blocking zones" is how I think about chain signals 90% of the time anyway, so it makes sense to just define those zones directly. Good luck!
you should make a coal hopper for the steam loco and water tower and for diesel would be like a fuel depot and make a factory that can produce diesel for the steam you could also use wood and water has fuel and or coal and water
I suggested this back a few months ago.
We ask for roads that make the trucks move faster, they give us trains…..👍
That would bad idea, if you play captain of industry
@@eugeneemerick4359 yes I play the game, why would that be a bad idea
awesome
"Steam engines can't take tight curves"
Sir let me introduce you to the Garratt locomotive, a steam engine designed to emulate the massive US engines, on the tight rails of the UK.
openTTD based trains are perfect. signals can be there. :)
Queremos construcao de tubos na diagonal.
Can't wait for it! Great game
This is exciting. Great work.
42:29 I would expect air drag to also be affected by the surface area of the train carts, maybe especially the front surface area: i.e. more carts, more air drag, but also replacing smaller carts with fewer large carts should reduce air drag.
Air drag is currently affected by frontal area as well as the number of wagons, longer train having slightly more air drag than shorter ones. Air drag also depends on wagon shapes slightly.
Thanks. ChooChoo Hype !
Promising...
Why not use splines to trace the paths?
I don't have the GOD and remove all trees functions in the console, is this only for developers?
How can you have more workers (2059) than population (1140)?
This was discussed on the stream at 19:14, main reason is blueprinting and other grid-based mechanics. God mode is dev-only tool, sorry!
@@CaptainOfIndustryGame Thanks
im so exitced like mavis when she got the fluffy unicorn
1 more thing I hope to see some underground x ray tool. I like to bery my pipes underground is little bit difficult but it's posable. Make thing more cleaner. + this one it be really nice when doing some strategy build witha blue prints it's stays in place wahil ground works going on instead of they demolish by tham self cuz ther is no ground support jus for laying pipes.
Gonna put it out there now: factorio's chain signals are amazing, please use them as your inspiration for signals here!
I'd rather see path signals that are superior but more demanding for computing power so better have both. You can spam block signlas on simple one-way section but then you can place just a few but more powerful path singlas that calculate path rather then reserve whole block so you don't need so many block signals, chain signals and also spacing between tracks that is often even impossible for signals to be palced in most games.
@@qwe5qwe566 path/chain signals are the same. I simply pointed out the factorio ones as a good example
Wonder, if the game will use the Advanced steam technology too ... not just use copies of preexisting steam locomotives ...
dont forget Double traction whould benefit heavy consist
You sholde let a train go back if is to steep an heavy
Interesting, but I have some questions:
1) what about rail+road crossing? or only briges will be awailable?
2) routing of trains, how it will work?
3) logistic automatization of trainz? will it be? how it will look like (as LTN in Factorio or "Train distribution office" in Workers&Resourses )?
4) will You make some kind of "logistic zones" to prevent car from serving faraway industry?
1) Some ramps/bridges or level-crossings. We are not sure yet but it will be definitely possible to cross railroad with trucks.
2) Either via list of stations, or automatic truck-like train logistics, or both.
3) Too early to tell, we will share more details as these systems are more refined.
57:51 Can you use multiple locomotives to pull one train like in Factorio?
EDIT: I mean, with each locomotive contributing traction.
Yes, that was what was shown/talked about live. Some longer trains will need multiple locos to go up hills.
lol H0 track size
I intrested if be posable transferring mix resources to sorting plant. Instead of separate and then move it. It be more realistic in life.
Mixed resources are though as they are very special, we will see what can we do, but trains may not be able to support them.
If we put 2 locomotives dos it still can hold a power claiming hills on highest speed?
Multiple locomotives combine their power as if it was one. If you put enough locomotives, they will be able to climb hills fast, but likely not on max speed.
Does it count emty cargo so train go faster and loaded is slower.
Do we have rail signal to have control by trains.
Yes, loaded train have more mass, thus more inertia and more rolling friction, resulting in slower acceleration and deceleration. We are still working on signal systems.
Factorio Signals allow Long trains, trains can occopie multiple Blocks.
You are right, but if a train is longer than the size of the first block after the last chain signal, the train may still block the chain-signal-protected area, diminishing the advantages of chain signals for longer trains.
@@CaptainOfIndustryGame that's why there are semaphores and their repeaters, if the blocks are not of equal length, e.g. intersecting tracks, we are playing a game where you have to think, so let's not make it easier with the railway, because in my opinion it is impossible to do without signals because,
either one railway will follow the other and wait for the first one to start, or one track will be a closed loop just for it
will rain affect train wheel slippage and therefore drag?
Interesting idea, perhaps on "realistic trains" difficulty, but not by default. Rain should probably lower the starting tractive effort and perhaps reduce rolling friction a little. Would that mean that on flat track trains would go faster due to less rolling friction? :)
How do you plan to handle tracks construction?
Currently, everything is constructed by trucks delivering materials. However, I think there will be situations that you want to build train tracks in areas unreachable by trucks.
We are not sure yet. However, unreachable segments can be always constructed by unity so truck construction might be working fine.
Did you forget about Unity? I think most of the more 'hardcore" players just use Unity for building since trucks take time, maintenance, and fuel to construct things with. Unity is instant, as long as the materials are available.
Would love the option for my excavators to mine another material in the mine if lets say iron gets full instead of sitting with a full bucket for ages
The next step should be a base defense, like in factorio 😊 some pirates or something else who are attacking the Island. ❤
No please not. The difficulty in this game comes entirely by managing your resources and pollution because it affects health. This game doesn't need some sort of Factorio like enemies artificially stamped on it.
Nooooo. Trains ruined factorio. Please God no
Usually when people (including the Factorio devs) complain about a particular transportation method 'ruining" gameplay, it's drones. I've never heard people complain about the existence of trains, only occasionally the tedium of setting up signal networks which the COI devs want to eliminate.
you can just not use them lmao, just keep using trucks and belts/pipes
@@pxlcowpxl6166 you know that isn't gonna be an option to be able to play COI to end game
@@TROPtastic that's because we all quit playing when trains came out. Train enthusiasts kept playing after drones came out
@@davidstocker2278 Of course you will be able to play to the endgame without trains. A bunch of tier 3 belts/pipes are gonna do the same job as a tier 3 train. If you're worried everything gets balanced so that you'll almost be forced to use trains in the late game, download a mod that adds tier 4 belts and pipes.
I absolutely love this game
What about britons?
Poor creatoures
Awesome