Hi Mark, i am writing this post, by power from my 19kWh BYD battery, courtesy of the Fronius inverter in back up mode. Seems a few drops of rain was enough to drop a tree branch across the wires and now the is no grid power. The house is currently drawing 500W and the battery is at just 12% Yikes. But the cloud is thinning and the solar is now pumping 800W, covering the house and slowly lifting the battery. For confession, I did just make a coffee for the wife and I to see how that would go. The jug sucked hard at 2000W and the microwave at 1000W to warm the milk. But that was only for a minute and now we are back to charging again. Hope Energex get around to fixing the wires before dark LOL.
Really great video - watched it a few times actually (seen plenty of your others) but in the process currently of ordering a replacement system and battery in WA. Thanks for your work
Hmm yeh! I we have thoughts about that. It’s around type an and type ac breakers but also non essential loads and costs. That is a video I should add to the list!
My Fronius Primo + 13.5kwh full house 3 phase backup just powered the house for 7 days after the Christmas Day storm in South East QLD. During the day we were even able to run the AC (big 3 phase system). The battery lasted overnight easily powering 2 fridges and some fans and tv etc. Very happy with it.
Hi Jordan I'm in Sydney and have 3 phase power house and planning to get Fronius 10kw hybrid inverter plus BYD 13.5 or 16kw HVM , would you still recommend. Have you had any issues, also what was the customer service experience ? My other options in 10kw Sungrow inverter with 13.5 Sungrow battery. I like to know what you think. Thank you in advance.
Funny to find this video, since we are going to install a Fronius with a BYD as a repowering of a 20 year old system -> in Germany. I was surprised to see the Australian wiring diagram in the manual (beside many european countries) but now I understand why (and the grid in Australia seems to be comparable to the grids in Europe).
I'm really suprised by the price point of ~$1000 USD per kWh. I thought for DC coupled batteries we were in the $300/kWh range by now. I see 5kWh cells available for $250/kWh
That's got to be an empty case you're moving around on the desk? And thanks for pointing out the phase power limitation on the 3 phase inverter. I'm looking at a Deye which allows up to 50% of inverter capacity per phase (so 5kW for the 10kW model etc). Things are moving quickly in this area.
I do have a question related to batteries and how they can power-up the home in case of a blackout. I have a Fronius Gen24 plus 6.0 connected to the grid 3 phase with 6 kWh solar pannels. If I install the battery, would it power-up all 3 phases ? Is there a difference between the HVS and HVM in that case or I need to have 3 different towers (one for each phase) ? Also I would like to know if in case of an upgrade (adding more solar pannels), can I add another inverter or do I need to sell this one and buy a new larger model ? Your support and help would be highly appreciated.
Hi Nicolae, yes, the Gen24 does 3 phase backup. Check out by byd battery guide for the difference between the two. mcelectrical.com.au/blog/byd-solar-battery-guide/
Hello! Thank you for your interesting videos! I have a question for you! The situation is this: I live in Ukraine and before the war with Russia I installed a 10 kW station with a Gen 24 Plus inverter and a 5 kW BYD battery! Now Russia is constantly hitting the Ukrainian energy system, destroying our substations! In winter, there is little sun, the city grid stations are destroyed and there is no electricity from them for months, it is impossible to charge the battery! There is only a 5 kW gasoline generator! How can I safely recharge the BYD battery from this gasoline generator? Thanks in advance for your help!
I have a 3 phase power and we get 11.5kw from the solar panels. Do you think i should get Fronius Symo 10kw inverter with BYD HVM 13.8 kwh or 16.6 kwh better. Thank you
@@mcelectrical over the last 6 month my solar export 6187kwh getting $0.06 for it and my usage was 4286kwh, paying $0.34 anytime usage price. correct me if I'm wrong, i will be better of with 16kw battery.? Thank you for your time and help.
You can also use the Tesla Powerwall battery with any Fromius inverter. The Tesla Powerwall is AC coupled, meaning it will work with just about any string inverter.
Byd don’t agree with you on that. They prefer fronius. And Goodwe runs about 10 degrees hotter is pretty average with its mppt algorithm, (all tested) to say the least.
Question. At 8:06 you say the 5.1kWh BYD at $8,000 does not include blackout protrection.Latter you say blackout protection will cost another $1,000. Why so and what if I already have PV Point installed? Do I still need to pay an extra $1.000 please?
Sure, blackout protection just takes a bit of work requiring your switchboard. If you can just back up the whole house it is simpler and cheaper. If we have to separate “essential” (eg lights) and “nonessential” (Eg hot water) circuits then there can be a lot of switchboard work. PV point is entirely separate and not really necessary when you have a battery.
Yeh vehicle to grid will take off soon. I was at BYD in Shenzhen talking with their inverter department and battery box department about this yesterday. They believe home batteries are still going to be a major part of the transition, mainly because your car will probably not be at home to soak up excess power. Also, the lifecycle of a home battery is significantly better - it’s designed to cycle once per day. A BYD car battery is designed to cycle much less than that, with the average owner switching their car after 5 or so years.
Hmm thanks for the tip. We have been working on audio and microphones. I have a new bloke starting next week to help us so hopefully we’ll have it better next time.
This is exactly why people like myself went with AC-Coupled Battery like Powerwall 2. With AC Coupled, they come with their own Inverter inside, which is indepedent of the solar inverter.
If only it was okay by the CEC to use a used $8000 Tesla Model 3 55Kwh battery pack. People overseas have the model 3 packs working directly connected to Gen24s with an inexpensive communication interface. The BYD batteries are awesome but quite expensive.
Yeh Vehicle to grid will be great when it comes out. Musk has said he will allow it in the coming years. The other hurdle will be the m networks like Energex allowing it.
@mcelectrical Sorry, what I meant was using a complete battery pack removed from a crashed model 3 or even a Leaf. You can connect them directly to the Gen24 as they are roughly the same voltage (400v). Then, use a device to translate between Modbus to CAN Bus so the Gen24 thinks it's connected to a HVM11.
The biggest issue for me is BYD will "only have 60 % of new capacity at 10 years" So in originally sizing your battery you really need to take degradation into account. or your bills will rise as your battery ages.
@@mcelectrical You Solar Patent US D916,006 S. They have been working on their “Stackable Power Bloc” for some time. The “Stackable Power Block” has modules which stack on each other interconnecting electrical connections and plug and play. Of course the Power Bloc is superior but it appears that BYD is using You Solar Inc’s “Stackable Power Bloc” patent concept. How about doing a video about You Solar Inc. and their now “Power Bloc” and soon to be released “Stackable Power Bloc”? Research them and you will see there is no other solar and battery company like them, because they are not a backup. They are your utility. You Solar is the future of independent solar and battery. Thanks for the reply. Love you video's
I'll save Mark the time for your trolling, and hopefully this will be the first thing people see. I'm sorry if you were suckered into funding YouSolar, but stuff like this is unnecessary. 1. In May 2020, YouSolar hadn't even started production www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1762157/000166516020000625/offeringmemoformc.pdf 2. In July 2023, and this has some of my favourite quotes: www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1762157/000166516023001522/offeringmemoformc.pdf "the validity and enforceability (of our patents) may results in them being invalidated or modified by the US Patent Office" "we may never have an operational product or service" 3. But i've saved the best for last, your "patent" this one: image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/D916006 A patent for a design, not for stackable batteries, not for their technology, in fact, nothing really.
Are batteries worth it? I agreed with you until recently, but, at todays power prices it will take 15 plus years to pay off. Unless you get onto a VPP like amber or Nectr, maybe it comes down to 10 years. But that figure continues to reduce as vpps gain momentum.
I think you may have seen some videos of Byd ev fires in china online. Yes there have been electric car issues with some turnery battery technology in China. But BYD is the second largest battery manufacturer in the world. Of course some issues will come arise. It doesn’t make a cheaper battery safer.
@@mcelectrical sure, battery chemistry, I get it. But whatever the battery chemistry, two determinant factors at play: profit and safety. It is the nature of capital to pursue profit, even at the expense of people's lives. When the greed of capital goes over the line (say, Tesla sells battery that carries the risk of burning your house down, but conceal the risk from the public to protect its profit), we the consumers in the West could expect the mechanism of check and balance to kick in: whistleblowers may spill the beans; media may jump on the sensational story for better rating or readership; legal actions may be taken to extract large sum of compensation from Tesla. However, it is entirely different situation in China. If anyone dares to expose the truth that may harm BYD's reputation, that individual runs the risk of being persecuted by the Chinese government, as BYD is one of the strategic industries subsidised by the government to dominate the global market. Your unfavourable comment on BYD is regarded as an attempt of sabotage plotted by the American Imperialism that tries to destroy our great motherland, aided and abetted by its running dog country such as Australia. I hope Australian consumers be well informed before they make their decisions. That is all what I want say.
Its just your ignorance speaking, BYDs LFP batteries are a leader in terms of safety and cycle life. When it comes to EVs and home batteries, safety are the no 1 consideration.
![[ ออกกอง ] วัยหนุ่ม 2544 โลกหลังลูกกรง..ทัวร์กองถ่ายหนังใน "คุกของจริง" | JUSTดูIT.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vB--aOkZCpw/mqdefault.jpg)
Download my BYD sizing guide here: www.mcelectrical.com.au/byd-solar-battery-guide/
It sounds very great！how much is it？
Might want to fix the popup which can't be closed. Makes the guide unreadable
Hi Mark, i am writing this post, by power from my 19kWh BYD battery, courtesy of the Fronius inverter in back up mode.
Seems a few drops of rain was enough to drop a tree branch across the wires and now the is no grid power.
The house is currently drawing 500W and the battery is at just 12%
Yikes.
But the cloud is thinning and the solar is now pumping 800W, covering the house and slowly lifting the battery.
For confession, I did just make a coffee for the wife and I to see how that would go.
The jug sucked hard at 2000W and the microwave at 1000W to warm the milk.
But that was only for a minute and now we are back to charging again.
Hope Energex get around to fixing the wires before dark LOL.
How much solar do you have on your roof? I'm hoping to disconnect from the grid bit surprised your battery wasn't suffice
Really great video - watched it a few times actually (seen plenty of your others) but in the process currently of ordering a replacement system and battery in WA. Thanks for your work
Hey Mark - love your work. One thing you don't mention is the possibility of an essential loads panel. Would love it if you could do a video on that.
Hmm yeh! I we have thoughts about that. It’s around type an and type ac breakers but also non essential loads and costs. That is a video I should add to the list!
My Fronius Primo + 13.5kwh full house 3 phase backup just powered the house for 7 days after the Christmas Day storm in South East QLD. During the day we were even able to run the AC (big 3 phase system). The battery lasted overnight easily powering 2 fridges and some fans and tv etc. Very happy with it.
I should say the battery is BYD HVM
Wow, Nice. Yeh the Christmas storms tested out a lot of battery systems. Not all work as well as the Fronius BYD combo!
Hi Jordan I'm in Sydney and have 3 phase power house and planning to get Fronius 10kw hybrid inverter plus BYD 13.5 or 16kw HVM , would you still recommend. Have you had any issues, also what was the customer service experience ? My other options in 10kw Sungrow inverter with 13.5 Sungrow battery.
I like to know what you think.
Thank you in advance.
Funny to find this video, since we are going to install a Fronius with a BYD as a repowering of a 20 year old system -> in Germany. I was surprised to see the Australian wiring diagram in the manual (beside many european countries) but now I understand why (and the grid in Australia seems to be comparable to the grids in Europe).
I'm really suprised by the price point of ~$1000 USD per kWh. I thought for DC coupled batteries we were in the $300/kWh range by now. I see 5kWh cells available for $250/kWh
this is a great video! never knew how many considerations are required for battery.
Thanks alex. Yeh it actually took me a while to get my head around the manuals. I think this makes it a bit easier.
That's got to be an empty case you're moving around on the desk? And thanks for pointing out the phase power limitation on the 3 phase inverter. I'm looking at a Deye which allows up to 50% of inverter capacity per phase (so 5kW for the 10kW model etc). Things are moving quickly in this area.
I’ve been down the gym a lot lately. Glad you noticed! Ha, yeh it’s a dummy byd for a showroom.
I do have a question related to batteries and how they can power-up the home in case of a blackout.
I have a Fronius Gen24 plus 6.0 connected to the grid 3 phase with 6 kWh solar pannels.
If I install the battery, would it power-up all 3 phases ? Is there a difference between the HVS and HVM in that case
or
I need to have 3 different towers (one for each phase) ?
Also I would like to know if in case of an upgrade (adding more solar pannels), can I add another inverter or do I need to sell this one and buy a new larger model ?
Your support and help would be highly appreciated.
Hi Nicolae, yes, the Gen24 does 3 phase backup. Check out by byd battery guide for the difference between the two. mcelectrical.com.au/blog/byd-solar-battery-guide/
If you have micro inverters, do you still need the Fronius Inverter?
No you don't need the Fronius inverter, you'll need an AC-coupled battery like the Tesla Powerwall 2, not a DC-coupled battery like BYD.
@@mcelectrical Thank you. I will have a look at what AC batteries are available.
Can i run a three phase installed ducted air conditioner of any of these batteries in a blackout or in the evening when the battery takes over?
Yes, but you would want to use the sizing chart can’t compare it to the load of you air con.
Hello! Thank you for your interesting videos! I have a question for you! The situation is this: I live in Ukraine and before the war with Russia I installed a 10 kW station with a Gen 24 Plus inverter and a 5 kW BYD battery! Now Russia is constantly hitting the Ukrainian energy system, destroying our substations! In winter, there is little sun, the city grid stations are destroyed and there is no electricity from them for months, it is impossible to charge the battery! There is only a 5 kW gasoline generator! How can I safely recharge the BYD battery from this gasoline generator? Thanks in advance for your help!
I have a 3 phase power and we get 11.5kw from the solar panels. Do you think i should get Fronius Symo 10kw inverter with BYD HVM 13.8 kwh or 16.6 kwh better. Thank you
That depends on how much you send back to the grid. Fronius monitoring has a battery sizing tool in it. That’s the best way to decide!
@@mcelectrical over the last 6 month my solar export 6187kwh getting $0.06 for it and my usage was 4286kwh, paying $0.34 anytime usage price. correct me if I'm wrong, i will be better of with 16kw battery.? Thank you for your time and help.
Does the BYD battery supports SolarEdge Inverters as they are also DC coupled?
You can stack up to 12.8kWh of HVS BYD Battery with Fronius GEN24 1.0 Plus thats the most powerful and affordable solution maxing everything out!
Im pretty sure it’s only 10.2. My sizing chart has been given the nod by Byd. www.mcelectrical.com.au/byd-solar-battery-guide/
But you can go up to 22kWh in one stack or 46kWh with 3 stacks with hVM
@@mcelectrical My charts and spec sheets show up to 5 HVS also. 12.8 kWh
@@mcelectrical Hi Mark, it's been a couple of months since this comment, are you able to confirm that your chart is correct please?
U can stack 12.8kwh of hvs but the gen24 is limited to 10.2kwh so for gen24 u can max out 10.2kwh
Will BYD Batteries be compatible with older models of Fronius inverters say Symo 15.0-3-M?
Hmm, I’m pretty sure the answer is use!
@@mcelectrical ?
How do the smarts work with the new power companies that control your battery for export?
Fronius are working with a vpp (virtual power plant) company called Nectr to get that working. Nearly there.
Do you have to go with BYD batteries if you have a Gen24 Fronius or can you go with a Tesla battery?
You can also use the Tesla Powerwall battery with any Fromius inverter. The Tesla Powerwall is AC coupled, meaning it will work with just about any string inverter.
The Goodwe go well with the BYD batteries and you don’t have the annoying fan noise
Byd don’t agree with you on that. They prefer fronius. And Goodwe runs about 10 degrees hotter is pretty average with its mppt algorithm, (all tested) to say the least.
What do you mean BYD don’t agree on that?
Tbh I’ll take the heat over the fan noise any day
@@behindthebuild8016 I think the concern is the increased temperature causes early failure in electronics. It isn't a linear relationship.
Id be going with the hauwei battery personally.
Wait? These BYD batteries dont give you Blackout Protection?
Yes they do, unsure what you heard me say
Is there a Primo Gen24 10kW or is it about to be launched?
Yes, a few installers have it (like us). It will be available to the rest of the market by the end of the year.
Question. At 8:06 you say the 5.1kWh BYD at $8,000 does not include blackout protrection.Latter you say blackout protection will cost another $1,000. Why so and what if I already have PV Point installed? Do I still need to pay an extra $1.000 please?
Sure, blackout protection just takes a bit of work requiring your switchboard. If you can just back up the whole house it is simpler and cheaper. If we have to separate “essential” (eg lights) and “nonessential” (Eg hot water) circuits then there can be a lot of switchboard work. PV point is entirely separate and not really necessary when you have a battery.
Hmmm 60k for 60kwh of batteries or BYD atto 3 with 60.5kwh battery for 50k to power your house.
Yeh vehicle to grid will take off soon. I was at BYD in Shenzhen talking with their inverter department and battery box department about this yesterday. They believe home batteries are still going to be a major part of the transition, mainly because your car will probably not be at home to soak up excess power. Also, the lifecycle of a home battery is significantly better - it’s designed to cycle once per day. A BYD car battery is designed to cycle much less than that, with the average owner switching their car after 5 or so years.
Good information presented well. Your noise reduction is a little too aggressive and makes it hard to listen to.
Hmm thanks for the tip. We have been working on audio and microphones. I have a new bloke starting next week to help us so hopefully we’ll have it better next time.
This is exactly why people like myself went with AC-Coupled Battery like Powerwall 2. With AC Coupled, they come with their own Inverter inside, which is indepedent of the solar inverter.
If only it was okay by the CEC to use a used $8000 Tesla Model 3 55Kwh battery pack. People overseas have the model 3 packs working directly connected to Gen24s with an inexpensive communication interface.
The BYD batteries are awesome but quite expensive.
Yeh Vehicle to grid will be great when it comes out. Musk has said he will allow it in the coming years. The other hurdle will be the m networks like Energex allowing it.
@mcelectrical Sorry, what I meant was using a complete battery pack removed from a crashed model 3 or even a Leaf. You can connect them directly to the Gen24 as they are roughly the same voltage (400v). Then, use a device to translate between Modbus to CAN Bus so the Gen24 thinks it's connected to a HVM11.
Oh right! Yeh that’s a great idea. I thought $8000 was a typo.
Longi so good
Love Longi Long time. Did you comment on the right video?😉
The biggest issue for me is BYD will "only have 60 % of new capacity at 10 years" So in originally sizing your battery you really need to take degradation into account. or your bills will rise as your battery ages.
No chance it’ll be that low battery degradation is no linear it’ll be closer to 80% + after 10 years
I could do with a mobile 20kw on wheels to charge my car up.
BYB is infringing on You Solar Inc's "Stackable Power Bloc" patent for the moduals.
Oh, interesting. I’ll look that up.
@@mcelectrical You Solar Patent US D916,006 S. They have been working on their “Stackable Power Bloc” for some time. The “Stackable Power Block” has modules which stack on each other interconnecting electrical connections and plug and play. Of course the Power Bloc is superior but it appears that BYD is using You Solar Inc’s “Stackable Power Bloc” patent concept.
How about doing a video about You Solar Inc. and their now “Power Bloc” and soon to be released “Stackable Power Bloc”? Research them and you will see there is no other solar and battery company like them, because they are not a backup. They are your utility. You Solar is the future of independent solar and battery.
Thanks for the reply. Love you video's
I'll save Mark the time for your trolling, and hopefully this will be the first thing people see. I'm sorry if you were suckered into funding YouSolar, but stuff like this is unnecessary.
1. In May 2020, YouSolar hadn't even started production
www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1762157/000166516020000625/offeringmemoformc.pdf
2. In July 2023, and this has some of my favourite quotes:
www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1762157/000166516023001522/offeringmemoformc.pdf
"the validity and enforceability (of our patents) may results in them being invalidated or modified by the US Patent Office"
"we may never have an operational product or service"
3. But i've saved the best for last, your "patent" this one:
image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/D916006
A patent for a design, not for stackable batteries, not for their technology, in fact, nothing really.
Money grab
Are batteries worth it? I agreed with you until recently, but, at todays power prices it will take 15 plus years to pay off. Unless you get onto a VPP like amber or Nectr, maybe it comes down to 10 years. But that figure continues to reduce as vpps gain momentum.
BYD? Really?
.....
Ruuuuuuuuuun 🏃💨.
🚗 🔥
I think you may have seen some videos of Byd ev fires in china online. Yes there have been electric car issues with some turnery battery technology in China. But BYD is the second largest battery manufacturer in the world. Of course some issues will come arise. It doesn’t make a cheaper battery safer.
For my money and my family safety, stay with Tesla, stay away from BYD. No brainer.
Fair call, but that doesn’t theoretically represent the difference in battery chemistry.
@@mcelectrical sure, battery chemistry, I get it. But whatever the battery chemistry, two determinant factors at play: profit and safety. It is the nature of capital to pursue profit, even at the expense of people's lives. When the greed of capital goes over the line (say, Tesla sells battery that carries the risk of burning your house down, but conceal the risk from the public to protect its profit), we the consumers in the West could expect the mechanism of check and balance to kick in: whistleblowers may spill the beans; media may jump on the sensational story for better rating or readership; legal actions may be taken to extract large sum of compensation from Tesla. However, it is entirely different situation in China. If anyone dares to expose the truth that may harm BYD's reputation, that individual runs the risk of being persecuted by the Chinese government, as BYD is one of the strategic industries subsidised by the government to dominate the global market. Your unfavourable comment on BYD is regarded as an attempt of sabotage plotted by the American Imperialism that tries to destroy our great motherland, aided and abetted by its running dog country such as Australia. I hope Australian consumers be well informed before they make their decisions. That is all what I want say.
BYD didn't become a battery giant by making unsafe batteries
Its just your ignorance speaking, BYDs LFP batteries are a leader in terms of safety and cycle life. When it comes to EVs and home batteries, safety are the no 1 consideration.
@@passby8070 you may fool a Westerner, but not me. I know what is going on with BYD. Stop telling lies to an informed man.