5 Years with Solar Panels - Is It Still Worth It?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.พ. 2023
- 5 Years with Solar Panels - Is It Still Worth It? For 65% off with HelloFresh PLUS free shipping, use code MATTFERRELL65 at bit.ly/3D53QkS! I’ve been living with solar panels for almost 5 years in Massachusetts. Get my achieve energy security with solar guide: link.undecidedmf.com/solar-guide. There’s been some twists and turns with solar production and how it’s performed in the cold and snow. I also added a Tesla Powerwall into the mix. There are definitely some things I wish I knew before getting solar and a battery installed. How has it performed and do I still think getting solar panels was a good idea?
Additional videos:
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Are Solar Panels on a Net Zero Home Worth it? - • Are solar panels worth...
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Watch Is a Geothermal Heat Pump Worth It? My Net Zero Home • Is a Geothermal Heat P...
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Do you want solar for your house? If you have solar, what are the things you wish you had known beforehand? For 65% off with HelloFresh PLUS free shipping, use code MATTFERRELL65 at bit.ly/3D53QkS!
If you liked this video, check out: Wow! I Didn’t Know A Prebuilt House Could Do This th-cam.com/video/y3NVDqH39CE/w-d-xo.html
I am indeed considering getting solar for the house.
Seeing your rate makes me glad that I am supplied by an electric co-operative. Looking at the bill that just arrived in the mail, I am paying 14.5 cents per kWh that I used.
Thank you Matt! Great video, especially the concerns. So many of us are running just to stand still these days. Issues like these get overlooked far too easily.
Thanks for the video, quite detailed and useful for some, however purely a curiosity as the money structure concerned in the video is completely absent form where I’m watching 😊 hello from the Levant, I’m of course very interested in the scientific side of your videos 😊😊😊
get polycrystaline panels ignore the normal monocrystaline panels ... the poly panels gather different wavelengths of light making them more efficient and a larger peak use period ...
republicans will destroy any program that makes solar viable and pays you back.
About 11 years ago, I had a grid-connected array of free-standing solar panels installed behind my barn. (I realize most homeowners do not have the space for this.) It produces about 90% of the power I need on the farm. The panels are angled for maximum sun exposure during the summer in Michigan; during the winter, we manually tilt them vertically for 3 reasons: 1) the lower angle of the sun during winter 2) to avoid snow sticking to them 3) to take advantage of "snow bounce" (the light reflected off the snow on the ground). I've been completely pleased with their performance; my annual electric bills are in the low hundreds of dollars instead of thousands. I can run my whole house A/C while still sending excess power to the grid on hot days! I love having green power!
Great to hear. Looking at putting solar on a shed instead of my roof. That makes no sense whatsoever.
How much did you pay for the system?
Has there been any degradation in the panels ability to generate electricity over 11 years?
Have you considered a more efficient DC setup that isn't grid tied?
Small farm? 😳😳😳
I have a friend who worked at a radio astronomy observatory for decades. They had this "standardized" intelligence test for their interns. When the "big" (26m) dish would fill up with snow, the procedure was to tilt it down, and hit it repeatedly with a whacking stick, and it would come avalanching down. The "test"? If the student stood *behind* the dish while whacking it, they passed the test. Several students failed this test...
"Why are we hitting it with a stick?, SCIENCE"
I would've failed based on the fact I wanted to be covered in snow...
I would’ve failed it because I’d be making snowmen.
And.........what does this have to do with the topic at hand?
Does the solar panels come with a mathematician? 🤔
Another thing to consider is structural integrity of your roof. I lived in a housing area for a few years that had some years prior attempted to put panels on most if not all of the properties. Apparently, the extra weight of the panels plus several inches of snowfall was enough to collapse some of the roofs.
most working-class people just dont have $50K laying around with nothing to do with it, to buy an array and a battery to 'invest' to only start saving a few hundred bucks a month after 10+ years so this is basically just toys for the already wealthy
That's why inspections and engineering analysis are important first steps.
Roof heaters.
Also to add, you have to remove all the panels before the roof can be shingled or tiled so if your going to put panels on your roof make sure you have a fresh roof that will last at least 20 years because you have to add the cost of removing them and putting them back on to redo the roof.
@@Luked0g440 Another expense and point of failure, which will reduce the effectiveness of the panels, that have to power the heaters.
I am having my 10Kvh system being installed as I watch this video, it was a timely recommendation and I was interested in what issues you encountered. I laughed when you mentioned one of the issues is snow since I won’t have to worry about that as I live in Australia.
Overall good video and makes me more confident that I made the right decision with my own system.
I did a DIY solar last year and ended up spending about $30k for 11 kW including 15 kWh of battery storage. My takeaways were:
1) Buy all the panels you think you might want at once, or accept that you'll end up with a mix of different panels that may not be mechanically or electrically identical. Panels change enough that it's extremely hard to find panels that were readily available 2+ years ago.
2) Get 20%+ more panel capacity than inverter capacity. The inverters have the same limit regardless of time of day or weather, but panels spend most of their time *below* peak capacity.
3) "Sun hours" is a very useful metric for system-sizing. In my climate, we get about 4.5 "sun hours" per day, or 4.5 x 11 = 49.5 kWh/day averaged over the year.
4) Use an off-the-shelf racking system. I designed & built my own ground mount system, and I *definitely* wouldn't do it again.
5) Battery backup is AWESOME for quality of life during outages.
Thanks for this information, its very practical and helpful!
Curious what you figured you paid for your diy ground mount? How did this compare with a commercial system?
ground mount rec solar 8kwh and on the annex lg 5kwh 340w ahas been flawless, south facing, due to local opposition, you can’t have any panels front facing to the street, which is nut’s but luckily my building was south westerly, connected to a 20kwh pylon tech each mounted system and 8kwh sma inverters , code required a 200amp circuit to be installed. That’s the expensive bit . The lg pannels do get grubby so it’s far easier to wash the ground mount for the rec solar due to shading from trees I opted to go down the tygo adapters route connected to another sma 3 phase 8kwh back to the annex, , so far 3 have failed but tygo were quick to replace and put it down to a batch issue , so replaced all of them . The solar day generation is key anything else is just a bonus and has seriously cut the cost of my 24kwh heat pump multi split so verily little goes back to the grid . I have found though on average two of 3 pannels of generation should be minus from your array for accurate energy output on a bright day , the batteries also suffer in the cold drawing a kw to keep warm that they don’t tell you about to keep them 20c
What kind of battery setup do you have? Do you backfeed the grid or does the solar only supply the house and battery?
@@daleatkin8927 bear in mind the power loss through excess cabling from ground mount to inverter and system or battery. It's quite a lot per metre.
I'm in Ottawa Canada and I have a 10kw array. The installer neglected to install the snow rail and the first winter we had a fairly large accumulation slide off. It shook the house. I went out to look at what had happened and was surprised to see it had dumped the snow out far enough to smash my neighbours air conditioning unit in to the ground. Thankfully the installer covered the repairs and installed the rail. No avalanches since.
Hi neighbour. How's your performance been in Ottawa? Would you do it again?
I’m also interested in knowing more about your setup
I had the same thing happen twice, destroyed a couple gazebo’s, had a snow guard put in this year.
@@SeanPoulter right now it's net metering and I have no storage yet. So I get paid for what I generate. We're told to expect next to nothing in the winter months. During the summer it generates a lot weather permitting. The last 2 years were a little lower but I generate about 8000kwh a year. When I joined the microfit program the guaranteed paying me 29 cents per kWh. Normal rate is lower. I'm on a tiered plan. The first 1000kwh/month is 8.7 cents/kwh and after that it goes up to 10.3 cents. I use about 1100/month. I run some servers. If I ignore the stupid extra fees I use roughly $100 is actual electricity/month. So roughly $1200/year actual use ($2160 after all the fees) . The payout I get from the hydro company has averaged about $2300/year. I plan to add significant storage in the next 5 years with the hope of still selling to the utility but also making sure I never cross in to the 2nd tier pricing by using stored power. I'm pretty much waiting in the hopes more pre made storage options come out with newer battery tech. I'd prefer more stable batteries than lithium ion in my garage even though I don't red about a lot of fires from things like power walls... But I haven't looked too hard.
We are in ottawa also and have been looking at doing solar panels with storage. I would love to hear more information. ❤
Hi Matt. I remember watching your pv install vid before I took the plunge and got panels on my roof in the UK in Aug 19.
As you may know, the energy market here has been a bit of a roller coaster over the last couple of years. Initially I was signed up to a utility supplier who paid a very nice rate for my spare kwhs. In fact, in 2020 (when the weather was admittedly fantastic) I didn't pay a penny in utilities (gas or electricity) for six months. Then in 2021 it all went a bit pear-shaped. The market convulsed and many suppliers, including mine, went bust. I became a British Gas customer for over a year and the rate they were buying kwhs was so small, it wasn't worth doing. There are more eco-friendly suppliers out there and in Feb this year I was able to swap to Octopus. Cheaper rates, nicer company all round to deal with. EXCEPT when it came to selling my kwhs. I first asked them about it in April and, having gone through a tedious signing up process discovered that here in the UK we have two types of system installation certificate. Well, guess what? The one that I have is not the one they recognise. So back to the drawing board. I am now signed up with a different supplier and am currently waiting on final approval from our national grid (takes up to 8 weeks, I gather). However the payments start from when I applied, so I shouldn't have lost too much of the main generating season. Next stop is to swap over the supply of gas and electric (tomorrow's admin task) so that I'm not buying from one supplier and selling to another. Also have a battery issue to resolve but that's another story.
I was looking for things to make life more complicated. This seems like the type of thing I am looking for.
Lol
This is the perfect comment.
That was my takeaway as well. 7+ year breakeven point and it sounds like he got massive credits, rebates and freebies. When you factor in your time and energy it's just not worth it right now.
@@disc2120 even better... buy a house during a down market with all the heavy lifting done and costed in. Cheap energy subsidy with no hassle 😊 just watch for avalanches...
@@disc2120 oh yea it's definitely better to let 7 years go by and not save any money. It's better to stay with your utility and pay more year after year and never even break even. It's better to rent power from the utility and never own it lmao
We're in Austin,Texas and got solar and 2 powerwalls a few months ago. We had gone through winter storm uri a couple years ago and didn't have any power for several days where we live. This time during winter ice storm mara we kept our power on the whole time (it was out in our neighborhood for several days) having TV, Lights, and Kitchen appliances all working. We have a fireplace that we kept the house warm with so we didn't use the AC/Furnace. So I'm super happy with our solar!
Isn't it great?! Up here in SE Michigan we had ice accumulation and last Wednesday most of the area lost power but I have the same thing installed. I ran off the battery for the 20 hours it was off. I turned the furnace off and used the gas fireplace.
I'm in Austin Tx as well and considering getting solar. Who did you end up using if you don't mind me asking?
@@MrMoxy76 We went through Costco and the company that they used was Sunrun who we thought took a long time to get things going and had some snags along the way. However, the company that did the actual install for them was called Axis solar and we thought they were excellent.
@@veganpeace_ATX North Austin here. We actually got our just before the big freeze a few years ago. While most of the state was down we had emergency power to our home. Even now in the coldest runs in winter we may have to pay 20 bucks in a month for heating. We used Trismart Solar and we have Green Mountain Energy for a provider.
I won't live in a home without a solar system any more.
Yes it was a horrible winter in 2021, the grid was down 55 hours. We lost power again this year. My old gas generator worked just fine. I had plenty of power and didn't have to spend a fortune. Solar panels are good for some, but I'll pass.
Nice video Matt. My advice would be to make sure your installer/provider is someone who has installed many years and all kinds of system designs. Example, your inverters are not desired because they create too many points of failure. Every extra part and extra connection is a point of potential failure. There are pros and cons of all decisions and choices. Nice video, good information Matt.
If you do your connections right, you'll be fine.
For comparison, I had 42 Sunpower SPR225-BLK panels installed about 15 years ago, they are pretty worn-out by now. Total price was $75,000 before credits, total capacity was 9450 watts, very similar to yours. After 15 years the power is down substantially due to deterioration of the substrate, which was expected. 2021 generation was 16,620 kWh which covered exactly 1/2 of our total usage, which was ~32,000kWh. Being part of SRP means about $70 per month in fees and taxes. My panels are small compared to the new form-factor where you get ~400 watts per panel, efficiency is pretty similar. At least when new. I suspect our panels wear out faster in Phoenix than they would in New England.
We have a 14' x 70' ground mounted panel system in our large back yard. This avoided all of the roof-mounted issues. We also have a geothermal heat pump system for heating and cooling. Our utility bills with this combination are minuscule, and the home is totally carbon free. We have been comfortable year-round and very happy with the systems.
I'm in the planning stages of our next home and seriously considering going with geothermal. Anything you wish you had known beforehand? Did you do vertical loops or horizontal? What would you say to those that say a modern air to air is nearly as efficient as geothermal for a much lower cost?
@@dreednlb : We did vertical loops because we have sandy soil here in Delaware. If we still lived in Ohio we wouldn't have been able to do that due to rock layers underground. We have three closed-loop wells side by side hooked up in series. Closed loop is the way to go, not "pump-and-dump." I have an air-to-air heat pump in my shop. It can't handle the cold winter nights like the geothermal can, which means that I need supplemental heat out there in the winter.
@@billmanzke758 Thank you for your response.
Hi Bill thats a great diy system, I be honest why pay for roof mounted panels with ample South facing garden it's the way to go 👍 have you ever thought of collecting rain water off the roof in a underground tank & pass through a filter & say use that for flushing toilets etc
@@CoolMusicToMyEars : We collect rainwater in three rain barrels for use in the garden. The house itself is hooked up to public water and sewer. We considered a graywater system when we built the house in 2020, but the county code does not permit it when public water is available.
Bought 40 acres and a completely off-grid cabin in April 2019.
We installed 16-300w panels, a couple Renogy 100A charge controllers, 2-4000w magnum inverters and 4-300ah LiFePO4 batteries.
Live out here year round in Upstate NY. Best decision we ever made!
I commend you for your frugal energy use. That is a small system to run a home, especially the relatively small battery capacity. We all could live with a lot less and live just fine.
@@michaeldoherty2289 Thank you MD2289.
Going on our 5th year here come April. We can go 2 days on a full charge with no light. Typically only having to run a generator for 20-30hrs all year and this is Upstate NY.
It can be done! 🙏
I am in the process of having solar panels installed (on my garage) to reduce or eliminate my monthly utility bills... Getting info & specifics from 3 companies to decide which company to go with. I'm a BIG BELIEVER IN DOING LOTS OF SHOPPING & LEARNING before making major decisions ! Takes extra time, but is worth the time in the long run.
Your video was EXTREMELY HELPFUL for problems encountered, etc. I wish even more people did similar videos that can help the rest of us avoid issues and problems in our decisions !
I had panels on my house from 2008 through the house sale in 2021. Paid nothing for power for 13 years, made a little bit of money from net metering, and when I sold the house the buyer admitted that the panels were a big reason they were interested. And as a bonus, the panels are an improvement that helped reduce my capital gains to nothing on the house. Absolutely worth it for me.
The utility company still charge for service fees whether you are using power from them or not. In my area, I pay $16/month. Additionally, if you paid out of pocket, then good for you.
Yeah, until it’s time for a new roof.
If you had invested that money you spent on solar panels in 2008, you would be far better off today than the small amount of money you made by saving on your energy bill.
Exactly 👍
@@ClarkMercer Ok, what if his investment strategy turned out to be disastrous and significantly damaged him financially?
My wife and I decided to install a 5.8 kWh system on our house in IL. Your 4-year video was a great source of information that informed our decision, so thank you for doing all of this. We are quite happy so far, and I'm glad your system is working out well for you still.
hey I hope you are having a wonderful day today
Do you want to install solar panels or anyone in your Circle area who wants to Go Solar?
Reply must please
You mean kW, not kWh? Or are you talking about the battery?
@@pietheijn-vo1gt what you need?
@@hiraonlineahop_pk kW is power, kWh is energy... im asking if you are talking about the battery (energy) or power (PV?)
@@pietheijn-vo1gt Actually I work with American Company which provide solar panels installation to USA based homeowners and companies
Company contains solar energy system design and products also
My wife and I had a small 1kw system installed for our off grid cottage in Ontario 20 years ago. Amazingly, we just replaced our original battery bank last summer. The system has performed flawlessly. 120 watt panels in 2002 were $799 each!!!!
Whoa....
What type of batteries?
What usage pattern?
That's insane! I'm looking at picking up used 250w panels for $55 each for my off grid system. Going with a 7000w system for $2100 shipped.
@Mr Techie Rolls/Surrette s-460, flooded lead acid. Bank of 4 6v creating 24v dc to the inverter. We average about 50 days/year at the cottage. Equalized every year, watered, and hydrocaps..
I pay 2000.00 dollars for 2 140 watts panels in 2000 big difference know
I’ve been working in solar for almost 10 years. The cost most don’t consider is the cost of removal/reinstall when they need a new roof. Most rates across the country are about $200/panel, and not all insurance carriers cover that cost.
Supposedly my installer offers one free removal within ten years, my roof is at 15 years so I have it in the plan to replace by 25. Likely I’ll be dead or moved away for the roofing job after that.. We’ll see how it goes, panels are to be installed later this year.
The bigger problem was that I was too ignorant that I would need them removed within a year of install to do exactly that and then actually getting that done took me over 8 months. I'm sure my ROI is already shot.
This is why I plan on having the roof redone at about the same time. Figure it might be more expensive. But in the long term the roofer can plan for this as it is being done and I won't have to worry about the replacement after they are done.
Neat to see this comment because I was driving the other day, saw some panels on an older roof, and was wondering how expensive it was to have said panels removed when the roof was replaced.
A good solar salesman should mention this and suggest you replace your roof before the solar panels go on. On the plus side, the panels can add a bit of longevity to your roofing (as you are covering that roofing).
I'm an old, washed-up, retired electrical engineer, but I still feel qualified to pronounce your videos to be excellent. I just subscribed to your channel :-). BTW: Your energy costs are positively frightening. I live in hydro-powered Montreal; our cost in US$ is 5.6 cents/kwh. Don't think I'll be adding solar panels anytime soon ;-).
The rising energy costs is such a big one. My husband did load calculations and realized our hvac unit isn't properly sized for our house. Plus we have a cheap, inefficient system to begin with.. So our electric bill has always been high. Now with our power company raising rates our electric bills are extremely high for a 1400 square foot homes.
We're talking about working in building our "forever home" and I'm definitely looking into airtight home designs, passive solar, and solar panels.
Matt. As a professional solar installer in Pennsylvania. I can confidently say that this is a very well-done video. Also appreciate all the time that went into this video. Congratulations.
Thanks for promoting a sensible way to reduce green house gases. As a full-time RV dweller I think you should incorporate more energy conservation strategies into your house and provide video guidance on them.
Nice advert.
What do you think of freedom forever?
@@willyjordan8997 I would not necessarily want Freedom Forever to do work on my house or any of my friends houses. It is a national sales company that often uses subcontractors. A much better choice is to find a good local installer. The NABCEP Solar Professionals list for your state, is often one of the best starting points. Regards
In qld australia, we get charged 25c a kilowatt or up for grid usage and get credited 4c kw for feed in👎
We had 22 solar panels installed (380 Watt) and a 10 KW battery. Here in Denmark we pay a high rate for transport between 5 PM and 9 PM. But low cost at night. So here at winter time we charge the battery at night and discharge between 5 and 9. That save us a lot. We have a 9 KW heating pump to warm up the house and 2 EV's. All electric now and I am pretty exited how much we save. The system is 1 month only but we can see now it is a great investment. Thank U for all your fantastic videos!!
They save you a lot because you have the most expensive electricity in the world, by a HUGE margin. The electricity in Denmark is nearly three times more expensive than the electricity in the US.
@@PistonAvatarGuy yikes, but helpful to know
In DK every hours of the day is different if you chose to be on a spot price tracker. So sometimes the price is what mentioned is this video. $0.37, or perhaps a tad higher at times as the post above mentions.
Other times when there is a lot of wind and sun, it's very close to $0. So I wouldn't say it's the most expensive in the world. Plus if you have a heat pump or similar green heat source installed after 12.000 kWh, the price on all electricity becomes slot cheaper to purchase from the grid.
Have a look at the UK where I currently are. Prices are up between 400% to 500% on gas and electric since 2019. Or at least our bills are that high, and no increase in usage.
@@martinandersen6698 Averaged, Denmark has the most expensive energy in the world. Edit: Sometimes, the price is up around $1.00/kWh!
@@PistonAvatarGuy Where do you get that 3 times number from?
According to Eurostat it was 0.28€/kwh in 2020 and 0.29€/kwh in 2021. I don't have up-to-date numbers for Denmark, but usually their electricity cost is similar to Germany's which currently sits at 0.35€/kwh.
That's exactly the same as the 0.37$ shown at 7:51
This house has been off-grid for the last 15 years with no grid-tie. Just went from the old Outback to a new SolArk combo inverter with lithium batteries last week and it's running amazingly! 3P config Discover AES 48V 130Ah batts with 5kW PV input. Cost $32k
It would have cost $45k to bring in grid power, and then we'd be paying an electric bill. I installed it all myself. The SolArk wiring was a breeze!!! Touch screen controls, all the settings are labelled intuitively. Manual is easy to follow. Also has a ton of options for sell-back and scheduling and peak shaving for AC coupled users.
I'm not affiliated with them at all, just a very happy customer.
PLEASE TELL ME THE BATTERIES ARE NOT CHINESE?
@@GBS1043 DiscoverBattery is a massive company, I've no doubt they do business with/in China, but their product has an excellent service history and has worked fantastic in our location.
Very satisfied customer.
Great video thanks. My wife and I live in Epsom just south of London England and we have had solar panels for 12 years which we are delighted with. Snow isn't our problem but I wish I had known about bird problems. Pigeons nest under the panels leaving a lot of mess on the pannels, around the house and making a lot of noise early in the morning. We had to have a bird control company clean the panels put up fences around each panel which solved the issue. Like your snow fences I wish I had known about this problem when they were installed.
Congratulations on launching the guide! They're a ton of work to create but especially on this topic they can help a lot of people.
I live in northern Idaho. We get a LOT of snow. I had our solar panels installed on an elevated frame on the ground. This work out great. I am able to clear the panels of snow easily and not worry about build up on the roof. We have the room on our property to do this. If we get a huge dump of snow, we still need to clear snow at the bottom of the panels to allow for the snow to slide off.
It makes much more sense to put the panels on the ground if you have the land. The roof is really just for the city and business districts.
We built a 1000 sq ft house in the country in 2016. Great insulation, propane heat, propane dryer and on demand hot water heater. 4400 watt system. With solar panel on a stand, not on the roof. The batteries 48 V in an underground shelter. It worlds great. We have to maintain the batteries every month adding distilled water. We have a military diesel generator when we need it for rainy days. We will probably have to replace the batteries in a year or so, not sure what kind yet. This is off grid. We also have a well with a pump that runs on it.
Thank you for the useful sharing. My own situation is far removed, being in South Africa where we have been seriously slow in taking up solar options, which is a pity. We have good sunshine but coal was cheap and our electricity prices were very low. Things have changed dramatically over the last decade or two, now the biggest drive for solar is not so much to save electricity as to provide our own due to the failing monopolistic Eskom. Forced power cuts are the norm for a large portion of the day. Unfortunately we also don't have much of an energy market to speak of, so selling back to the grid is not much of an option. It remains quite an expensive exercise, as you can imagine. Just focussed on powering essentials at this stage, and hope to build the system when I can afford to.
This was very useful. I also have a bunch of “I wish I’d known” items after I installed my own 7Kw system. Can’t wait to see the rest of your new home journey.
Agree with the mini-snow avalanches. I've gotten used to hearing big clumps of snow hit my back deck where a cluster of panels for my array are located. I have another smaller cluster out front, which has the same issue, but there's no danger that anyone will be standing there. Today, thanks to you, I learned about snow guards and may ask my installer about them. Good luck with the guide!
The rain issue is why I finally found a company to install stone coated steel shingles on my home. They are very expensive (7 times more) but 1 they come with a 50 year warranty 2 the stone helps slow the rain down so it enters the gutter just like standard shingles.
Your warranty is 50 years, or 5 years when the company goes out of business, whichever comes first.
@@jeffro221My first computer had a long warranty and the company only lasted 2 years after I bought it... also you need to look at the fine print, businesses usually put a lot of wiggle room into warranties so they don't lose much money.
So I'm building a new home and I want to go full solar or as much of it is solar as I can. Energy costs are a little less than what you do and I'm designing my own house with dataCAD so I am actually going to go for an A-frame styled home and position it east west. Nice lovely view of the river solar can catch all the time and I really don't have to worry too much about the snow because we get a lot of snow where I'm from. It means less shoveling for me and there's no roof height that's going to drop the snow off. Then I can simply leave some snow there for insulation in the winter because you want to bank the sides of your house and take the rest away with the tractor
For those who are looking for some advice on extreme climates, I have had 2 off grid homes one in CO @11000ft elevation and one in AK at 66 degrees latitude. The suggestion for more than 6 months of winter is prioritize something more efficient in inclement weather like wind. The panels in CO needed to be shovelled not brushed off up to 4 times a day. Panels will crack with more than 2 ft of snow on them. I lost 25% in one storm where I couldn't physically keep up with the snow. I also had a roof avalanche that knocked my generator, 16kw propane, and propane tank off the pads. A snow bar would have made my roof collapse even at 100 psi snow load. In AK I have 11.6kw panels and 2 genies, 6kw and 10kw. There is 1 week a year the sun doesn't come above the horizon so solar was only giving 0.3ah for 24 panels. The snow also is an issue here I have a ground mount with the panels vertically. They are set @ 66 degrees so most of the snow slides but being 16ft in the air, I can't reach the top. With large storms, snow needs to be shovelled out of the bottom so the bottom half panel is visible. This will pay off in the summer with 23 hours of daylight. In summary, choose the most efficient system for your location and look out for hazards like extreme weather, slippery roofs and overestimating your physical abilities.
My father tried wind in Ohio. A small system with a brake that would apply itself if the wind was to strong. One night it was so windy the brake blew apart and the blades spun so fast they ripped off the center mount launching one through the siding, outside wood, and inside wood of the of the garage. The blade was stuck into his house, halfway inside and halfway outside. He tore it all down at that time. An expensive mess..
Sound advice @b hendrick. 🕶👍
If you have a metal or solar roof, or heavy snows in general with a high angled roof you should be getting everything cleared from where it could land.
Last year my company plant was closed because a snow avalanche off the metal roof hit the natural gas meter and ripped it off the wall. The gas found the path of least resistance...into the building. People walked into the plant in the morning and there was the smell of gas throughout the building. Happened once in like 40 years, but still potentially catastrophic.
Not getting on a roof especially snow filled. In my 60s and you too, Lord willing will get older and unable to do any of this kind of stuff or risk breaking your neck. Come up with some other arrangement as one fall and health gone makes no sense to save money if jacked up and now unable to do anything because you fell off the roof cleaning panels
@@billbirch3748 I made the same comments. But adding to that there is just too many Americans that couldn't possibly afford any of this but those that can are being heavily subsidies in all aspects that push higher rates to those that couldn't afford it in the first place. I don't see solar as practical, even for those that now can afford surely the future is unknown, subsidies and mandated buy back most likely will disappear and eventually total replacement of solar. To me nuclear and constant power plants benefit all. To me we are moving away from the logical to the illogical and eventually the logical will prevail.
In our case ,the solar panels removing the snow themselves was more of a feature than a concern. That said, the house was made with eventual panels in mind,, and so the positioning of where that snow cascades off too has been tactical.
We got a 8.4 kWH system for our 3000 sq ft home and I'm glad we got it. There's a lot of incentive but it is still a luxury item.
Great information. Thank you for sharing your experience.
I like your videos and you do a fine job. I have had solar on my home in California for over 22 years. I was an early adopter of this technology and have been very happy with it. The only issue I have had is that my inverter started to die after about 15 years. (It was guaranteed for 10). At that time I got a new inverter and added another 12 panels, which were about 66% more powerful than the original ones. All of the panels are still producing electricity and it has been fun to know the sun is providing our power. I wish we had the great support you have gotten in your state!
I lived in Mass for a number of years. There were other resources to let folks know when contractors go bad. I had a similar challenge (though not nearly so impactful) with Tesla Solar. They said they had to remove my existing gutters and covers, and gave me a recommendation for a contractor who installed "Tesla Solar Roof-compatible" gutters and covers. After multiple attempts, that contractor was unwilling to even give us an estimate. We got it done in the end, without Tesla's help.
In our area (LAS Vegas) you can have neighbors prevented from interfering with the daily sun on your panels. If a neighbor plants a tree they have to consider your solar install and prevent shading of your system. Something to look into in your area!
Another quick observation is on windy or cooler days (yes even here in Vegas!) our 5.6kwh system can produce up to 6kwh (the max on our inverter). So take into consideration your wind and temps and what possible effects they may have on your system.
One last note! Go big! My regret is that I didn't go bigger on our system to begin with. Now our panels are no longer produced and adding to our existing strings is not possible with mis matched panels. Our options now are to find some used versions of our panels or create a whole new system for added capacity. Reasoning for the go big approach include adding a plug in hybrid or fully electric car, maybe a pool is in our future, and even cooling our home a bit more when it's 115 outside!
Hope these tips help!
Sounds like a Communist town that yells you what to do on your own land!
Solar panels operate only on the amount of light available, despite wind and temperature.
@@TerryD15 you need look into it further. Temp has a lot to do with the amount of power solar panels make. Our highest out out month here is May. The sun is much kore favorably positioned in June and July but the heat here reduces output considerably. Of course cloudy days affect output but so does temp.
@@zjan4me Sorry but you are wrong. Solar panels respond to light, not temperature, despite your local experience. Facts are facts, science is science, engineering is engineering.
@@TerryD15 So, the laws of physics are ignored in a city with 115 degree temps. Too funny. Do your research. Temp doesn't provide the power itself but temps do affect how much power a panel will produce. All things being equal a panel in full sun on a cold (or windy) day will produce more power per square centimeter (power density) than in a hotter calm day. Even new bifacial panels are being being arranged vertically (facing east and west) so as to reap the benefits of cooler panel temps at mid day. This creats a double hump power curve but yields more power by avoiding the mid day added heat full sun creates.
We may be arguing symantics here but please research tempurature effects on solar panels. It's usually even stated as part of the power specs on panels.
Solid video tech has come a long way since your install... A lot more capability now with the SPAN panel Arch Rao from Tesla created coupled w the Franklin Battery. Good on you for getting in early!
Matt - enjoy your videos; installed my system in July 2019 and its exceeded my expectations. I have a 45 deg roof that orients SSE with no obstruction, so a 98% solar rating. My 22 panel 7.04 KW array has produced 33.9 MWh of power so far and I will recoup my investment in 4 yrs. Haven't had an electric bill since I installed my system and love getting my monthly checks from the power company. Thinking about adding a battery but have to do more research and also watching to see if costs come down with evolving technology. Good luck with the new house.
We installed our own system 10.5kw. In the years since we did it we learned SO MUCH. Yea I wish I knew now what I knew then. Our panels are Canadian Solar. We live in Rochester NY. All of our roofs are facing south and we built a large 20x12 shed just for solar. It was a major learning process teaching myself how to do all of the electrical.
I am in Mass also just got my panels worrying a bit about winter but installer assured me that if there is an issue with snow they will put snow guards on for nothing.
I have solar panels for my house for 5 years as well. I live in Singapore. I installed 7.54kwp for $17800 and was able to save about $200 per month on my bills. I definitely agree that picking the right installer is key on which direction your experience will go. Mine (solargaga) was lukewarm and not great at times but I heard worse stories. Thanks for sharing about the less harvest in 2021. I experienced the same issue and thought that my solar panels was acting up but next year it spike so I wasn’t sure why. Now, I keep my fingers crossed that my solar panel continue to function properly so I get returns from my investment and able to break even. Over the 5 years, I did have to replace one of the spd which cost me $300. The install was supposed to come with 5 years of free maintenance service but it’s nothing more than them coming to look at your readings. They did not even bother to climb up and check the panels. Scheduling with them was always an unpleasant experience. In Singapore, we did not have the battery available to us yet when installed mine 5 years ago so I do not have that for my home. I would be interested to look into that. We do not get government subsidies or any form of credit at all. Singapore is still rather backwards that way.
Impressive, you might break even in 10 years.
@@eustacemcgoodboy9702
Singapore is a Country about the Equator = Lot of Sunlight, so is Malaysia and Vietnam; but those Solar Panels = were they China Made from Xinjiang Autonomy Region = Where labours are cheap and some are Forced Labours? Is it Human costs to pay for some Singaporeans benefit?
[ While there are many types of PV systems known to be effective, crystalline silicon PV accounted for around 90% of the worldwide production of PV in 2013. To reduce energy losses, an anti-reflective coating is added to the surface, along with electrical contacts. After finishing the cell, cells are connected via electrical circuit according to the specific application and prepared for shipping and installation.[47]
Environmental costs of manufacture: 😂 😂 (Just shifted the 😰 😰 Sweatshops to Xinjiang and our Conscience is clear) 😍 😍 They, China Manufacturer used Coals to fire up these Intensive Powers Demands Plants (Coals from where = including Indonesia. Where at some point, Smoky Air reach to other Countries across the vast Pacific Ocean!
Solar photovoltaic power is not entirely "clean energy": production produces greenhouse gas emissions, materials used to build the cells are potentially unsustainable and will run out eventually, the technology uses toxic substances which cause pollution, and there are no viable technologies for recycling solar waste.[48] Data required to investigate their impact are sometimes affected by a rather large amount of uncertainty. The values of human labor and water consumption, for example, are not precisely assessed due to the lack of systematic and accurate analyses in the scientific literature.[1] One difficulty in determining impacts due to PV is to determine if the wastes are released to the air, water, or soil during the manufacturing phase.[49] Life-cycle assessments, which look at all different environment impacts ranging from global warming potential, pollution, water depletion and others, are unavailable for PV. Instead, studies have tried to estimate the impact and potential impacts of various types of PV, but these estimates are usually restricted to simply assessing energy costs of the manufacture and/or transport, because these are new technologies and the total environmental impacts of their components and disposal methods are unknown, even for commercially available first generation solar cells, let alone experimental prototypes with no commercial viability.[50] ]
so many hustlers.
its a couple of bolts for the panels and a couple of wires on the inverter
i agree dont pays 5-10 times more then needed for that work
many comapanys make over 10000 dollars on half days work for 1 man job, and sell the equitment very expensive
@@eustacemcgoodboy9702 i will break even in 3 years
and im able able to sell my house and get a value for the system that is more then i gave
by choosing the right installer and looking into the prices (and i live in scandinavia)
i had no need to look into tax credits, but in germany a project like i did is tax free
Not every place in the states gaves you a credit back, it totally depends on the state or the location
Hi Matt, thanks for sharing your results. I was a bit surprised by the solar production but then again my installation, although just a bit larger produced significantly more. Guess major difference due to latitude difference as I am in the Barcelona, Spain area, and lots more sun. Anyway, with a 30/400W panels with 9 facing south and 21 west I produced 16.3MW with a 10kW string inverter. You have a great deal with your power company with a 1:1 net metering which shows that batteries only make sense depending on where your live and the rates paid. Also, guess depends on if you have many power outages. BTW, I would change your 1,000kWh consumption per month for mine any day. Again thanks for sharing.
The issue for solar here in the Midwest is obviously not sun availability, but the risk of damage to panels from hailstones. Potential customers are strongly advised to consult with their insurance company to verify any special caveats or endorsements that may be in play for the panels, the structure of your roof, or the replacement of the roof when the shingles age out. Also, there are numerous shady solar operators who sell a bill of goods with poor installs, poor equipment, or poor terms (for the homeowner). I have a friend whom I fear is amid just such a contractor. Just be exceptionally careful.
Damn I never thought of hail in the equation
Across the country are PhD Electrical Engineering graduates that claim the CURRENT 2022/2023 SOLAR PANELS HAVE 22 PERCENT, OR LESS, EFFICIENCIES! I am NOT an engineer! But if I have 1000 square feet of Solar Panels, then I'll install 5000 square feet of panels to get that 100 percent efficiency! RIGHT? 😅 ( It does not work that way! Just because I increased the number of solar panels by an additional 4000 square feet, to 5000 square feet! The "efficiency rating" REMAINS at 20 percent, or LESS! 🌞
Difficult these days to do business with most as the quick dollar is paramount.
I've really wondered about the issue of roof replacement and hailstones. We had spiked hailstones a few years ago. That was something new to me. And it's rare, but golf ball to softball size hail are real things. But even without dramatic hail events, eventually roofs need to be replaced, and dismantling your solar panels to replace your roof will certainly add to the costs even if your solar equipment is still viable. You would probably have to hire people who work with solar outfitting to take down the panels and related components, and then have the roofing company come in behind them to do their part. But if parts of the solar equipment are worn out or damaged, you'll be looking at replacement and reinstallation costs to get back on solar power. I would think insurance premiums might be higher too just because of the fact that you're putting holes in your roof to anchor the solar equipment, and it's putting additional weight stress on your roof - so now your roof is going from being a cover to an additional support structure, and most roofs probably weren't constructed to perform as support structures.
I guess my point is that there could be a lot of additional costs associated with solar power down the road that a lot of people may not be aware of, and it could be more than a lot of people could comfortably afford. If you could calculate what those costs might add up to, and you planned to stay in your home for a long time, you might conclude that you're just deferring what you would pay for electricity from the grid now, to be paid later in the form of additional costs for maintenance and replacement of solar equipment. It might make sense for some people. It's something that should be considered in relation to purchasing a home that's already equipped with solar panels too though. It might seem like a great thing, but the maintenance and replacement costs for the roof and managing the solar equipment part of that process might be an unpleasant surprise that a homebuyer may not be aware of and might be hit with dealing with sooner than they anticipate with existing solar structures. I think this is relatively new territory, and there are going to be more issues that crop up and have to get sorted out. Insurance-related issues could be a major issue.
@EugeneSSmith Solar is just not very good. Imagine anything else you spent 10s of thousands of dollars on that only gave you 20 percent t of what you needed and still having to use what you already had like city supplied electricity for the other 80 percent. The problem with solar is the overall cost and the efficiency. I live in Phoenix and I get multiple companies every month knocking on my door all offering the same thing and stating that the other companies don't do it right. I also have many friends and colleagues who have regrets in the purchase of their panels.
I installed solar six years ago and living in Arizona I feel it was the best thing I have every done for my house. I am connected to the grid and never expected to not have a monthly bill. I have a pool that runs every night and the AC puts a big drain on the electrical draw of the house (2600sq ft). I had a very good solar company, not the cheapest, and with the age of my house they advised to redo my roof before installation. Also the rear of my house faces about SSW so it is good for several reasons, good alignment for the sun plus it does not affect the curb appearance. Apart from two months of the year I am either building up credit with the electric company or slowly drawing on them as demand increases as the weather gets hotter. My typical electric bill is less that $20 and before solar the lowest it would be during the winter would be about $110. When I have exhausted my credits my monthly cost will increase to about $160 which is very reasonable for my house. I just looked at my July performance and I generated 1.3MWh although it dropped slightly due to the extreme heat and I have 7.25KW system. I made use of the 30% rebate and with the savings I have paid for the system. I do not consider the roof cost as part of the installation as the age of my house meant that it was very close to needing that anyway, a house across from me recently has to have all the panels removed for the roof replacement. I may consider some additional panels as I am thinking of a heat pump for the pool and maybe a plug in hybrid
So you don't pay the electrical company but how much per month do you pay to finance the solar system?
Nothing, I paid for it outright
For most solar panels, a little bit of shade anywhere on the panel, even shading on just one solar cell, shuts down the entire panel's output. Some newer panels divide the panel into 2-4-8 sections and add a by-pass diode across each section so only that section gets shut down with any shading. SunPower has (or at least used to have) panels with an integrated by-pass diode across each solar cell. They are also expensive but then generally lead in conversion efficiency too. I don't know if there are others with integrated diodes across each cell but if you get any shading you need to research it before buying.
Just picked up on your channel Matt. Here in South Australia which is a long way from you, I think I can safely say, solar is well worth it with around 1/3 of homes now using rooftop solar. Even in my small street, 10 out of 14 homes now have solar. And when I look at my figures; my electricity bill was $650 for 9 months and that's with just an average 6.6 kwh system, that has generated some 7,700 kw/h in 9 months. But then again, we never see snow and I'm ok with that!
i have to say, you were very lucky with your timing and the favorable conditions and laws in your area. Your goal was very realistic in that it was more about taking some of the pain away and to weather ;) the storms that life may bring. it makes sense to do some sort of hybrid systems like this with all of the brownouts and such as more and more demands are placed on the grid. excellent and informative video as always.
An advantage of living in Australia is that we do not get snow over 95% of the country. However, the prevalent Terracotta tile roofs can be perfectly weatherproof, but become very brittle when subject to many blisteringly hot summers. This resulted in an acquaintance having to call off an installation altogether because the installers broke every tile they stood on. We are also be-deviled by the number if incompetent installers who habitually under-size system capacity required, to be price competitive then run a mile from their own shoddy work.
Hi I'm from Perth, Western Australia and we get plenty of sun, even in Winter. It can be overcast for up to 4-5 days here in Winter so we installed 50kwh of Lifepo4 batteries (house uses ~22-24kwh/day). I only have 8kw of solar panels with 2x 2kw Wind Turbines (actually only average about 1.5-1.7kw each at best). Total cost here was US$19,000 but we don't use any grid power at all. We are still connected to the grid via an isolator but choose not to use grid power. I recommend looking into efficient wind generators for cold climates and large LiFePo4 batteries banks. Tesla walls can explode (the unit Matt has, uses Li-ion batteries so could potentially burn the house down) 3 have gone up in smoke here and they lost their home.
Great video. This is good for the ones who can afford to start early buying solar panels now and reap all the benefits of these good programs to offset some of the cost over time. I hope programs similar to this are available when we possibly get a home again one day. 😊
you make a good point, it shouldn't just be people with money and own their home now that benefit, and the rest of us are left out just because we didn't own a house at the right time. Hopefully there are still programs later for eveyone to benefit from!
We have solar, but came into it in a weird way - we bought a house that already had it (installed late in 2014). So I didn't have any buying decisions to make. Did it affect the cost of the house? No way to know, really, as there are so many other variables.
When we first got in the house, I got into the monitoring system, and quickly realized that there was a fault, and the system was only producing about 40% of the expected output. So my first job was to call the installer (who was still in business), and get him to come out and get that resolved. After that, the system has been flawless. I will make the observation that it helps to sort of look at it every so often to see if any faults have been reported that need to be dealt with, but those tend to be rare.
For the case where you purchase a home with solar already on it, he SREC thing was kind of a bureaucratic hassle. it was originally in the name of the previous owner of course, and there is paperwork required to get it transferred over into my name. Fortunately, the solar installer came through here too and helped with that process. My only complaint was that it seemed to take a long time, but that wasn't their fault. We are starting to get close to the point where we hit the 10 year mark that the SREC have paid out, and after that, we still get another 10 years at a significantly reduced rate.
We very rarely have power outages, and we don't have TOU. So for us, it is hard to make an argument to add batteries. The hard thing about batteries is that a lot of people come into it believing that in the event of an extended outage, they can run their entire house off of the batteries, and for most people, that's not really very realistic. So before ever buying any batteries, I would recommend thinking about what you think your needs and requirements are, and then figure out whether batteries are a realistic solution or not.
In terms of the snow - been a mini-problem for me about 4 times in 12 months.I saw some folk install water-cooled solar - essentially taking heat from the panels to consume in the home while cooler panels are more efficient. You could also reverse this just to clear the avalanche of snow and get the full benefit of the panels again on bright, cold winter days - which would likely offset the cost of the energy required to clear the panels.
I had a solar company cold call my property and give me a quote today. The problem i had was the hard sale, where I only had 2 hours to decide if I was going to sign along the dotted line. I told them under no uncertain terms I was not going to make a hasty decision no matter the benefits of solar and payback period.
When companies do that to me the decision is easy - I don't sweat it. The answer is "No way."
@@stargazer7644 The answer is always no-way. If those panels were so wonderful they wouldnt need to come to your door.
Our solar was installed recently, I envy your 2018 pricing, but we are not far off. Your videos were a huge help in deciding our goals and choosing an installer. We are in a western state so our production is already showing a huge difference. Thanks for the guidance and the great videos
Kinda overpriced, the 8k tax credit is closer to what it should cost
@@TheNicog1 i mean if you think you can pull off designing budget solar panels and installation for that then go ahead and make bank.
@@TheNicog1 It should stand on its own without having to use other people's money
@@johnfromnj885”using other people’s money” loads of every industry are held up by government subsidies. Farming in the scale it is today isn’t profitable for a wide variety of reasons. But I don’t see people commenting this shit under those topics. What’s profitable and what’s necessary or “right” aren’t the same things. Profit shouldn’t be the only factor.
@@CrypticCabal Do you work for free? Taxpayer money shouldn't be used to push political agendas like solar and electric cars. If the tech can't stand on it's own it shouldn't exist. It's all a fraud anyway.
The snow avalanche you mentioned is no joke! I was out shoveling my front walk after a major snowstorm once and an avalanche off my roof's solar panels occurred just as I was underneath it. I ended up twisting my ankle as it knocked me over.
Did they warn you? Maybe sue the solar panel company.
@@majorburke9735 Nah, s'not a solar panel problem. It's a "Roofs where I live are tall and steep to shed snow" problem and I happened to be underneath it at a bad time.
Absolutely Amazing!
Well done!
I live in South Africa. We recently invested in solar. With our energy crisis and crazy load shedding schedule, it has been life saver!!
Excellent lessons learned Matt, I hadn't thought about the rain. I have a metal roof on a 2 story building we have snow guards on our metal roof and would do the same for solar panels but in the end I'm on a acreage and have plenty of room, in the end I will setup my solar on the ground not on the roof. Based on your videos this makes the most sense for me. Cheaper install easier to keep them clean, can put them in the optimum direction and son on.
Great video as usual Matt. I'm in MA and following your journey along the way. Have a 10kW array and PWs installed in 2020. Two things I would like to share with those who planning to build.
1. If you taking loan to cover your project watch out how long does it take to complete. Because of covid delays our project took over the year and I had to close the loan before I got 30% refund. So loan interest was calculated from entire amount. If I would be able to sent this refund check to lender it would pay less.
2. Even with great installers babysit every step. Like discuss exactly where you want equipment would be installed. Everyone wants to have done job quickly and sometimes not most optimal way. I was told we need to have meters, disconnects, etc installed on the front of the house. With little discussion it was moved out the way. Also I made a list of each microinverters ID and placement on the roof, so it was helpful when installer was mapping panel locations (my setup includes 2 strings and 4 arrays).
3. Hot coffee in a winter or cooler in a summer provided to install crew goes really long way.
Install a 1/4 radius baffle at the lower edge of the solar panel, this will divert the water into the rain gutter instead of over it.
That was really informative. So many factors involved. I haven’t gone the solar route but am always interested. Instead I opted to super insulate the attic of a brick ranch that has two furnaces in the Chicago area. We will see how that helps. Just had it done
If you wanna go solar. Use it to power your light only. The rest is totally not worth it.
When we lived in Florida we looked into panels when Tesla was partnering with Home Depot. They came out and the first thing she advised us to do was to get an energy audit from the power company to see what our use was and to get an evaluation on our home's efficiency. That's when it hit home! Our 1957 home was/is an energy hog. Poor attic insulation, decades old ductwork, zero crawlspace insulation, and an 80 gallon conventional water heater meant we'd be throwing good money after bad. The Tesla rep was amazingly honest and pointed out that to even come close to breaking even we'd be into it for 70K between panels and batteries. Now we live in the mountains and this home is better but still not good. It's a converted cabin so the wall thickness isn't great for R value. Looking at the numbers in two different homes we came to the conclusion that one's home envelope and efficiency need to be addressed before any talk of solar can be serious. It makes no sense to spend a ton of money on a home that leaks energy like a sieve.
Good comment. Have a 1970’s house in FL. Thinking about solar but much to take into consideration!
@@Dbb27 check hybrid hot water heaters. If you have a garage they're perfect in Florida. They use a heat pump rather than resistance coils to heat the water. Super efficient and they'll keep your garage 10-15 degrees cooler. Knocked $100 off of our electric bill when we lived there.
Also live in Florida and checked out solar; exactly the same experience.
@@euphemiat7735 hey I hope you are having a wonderful day today
Do you want to install solar panels or anyone in your Circle area who wants to Go Solar?
Reply must please
hey I hope you are having a wonderful day today
Do you want to install solar panels or anyone in your Circle area who wants to Go Solar?
Reply must please
Two things I wish I had known before having panels installed. First, I should have checked the condition of my roof. It needed repair, but I didn't know that until AFTER the panels had been installed, adding to the cost when I eventually had it done. Second, definitely get the panels critter-proofed. Pigeons made a shitty mess of our yard between the time when we got the panels and we got them critter-proofed. We should have done it immediately.
Putting solar panels on anything other than a new roof runs the same risk. To repair the roof properly will either require removal and reinstallation of the panels or extensive and unsightly patching. All that assumes that your roof trusses have/will not sustain damage during the process or due to water intrusion due to roof leaks.
On the flip side, most quality architectural composite shingles these days have a rated service life of 30-40, or even 50 years depending on where you live and how well you maintain them. As another poster indicated his 1st generation panels are pretty much done after 15-17 years. Unless the replacement panels are the same size as the originals, or the mounts are very adjustable without adding or moving the stanchions you'll have to poke more holes in your old roof again.
Bottom line, your panels and your roof are one system and need to be engineered as a single complementary unit.
As a solar installer myself, I have told companies I have contacted for that the roof is in no condition to have panels mounted. In my belief that should have been checked by the person who did the original site visit. As well, pigeons are a massive problem where I work as well and I agree with you, always get critter guard installed around your panels. Pigeons can be pests to deal with and affect your production of power due to their fecal matter😂. Lastly panel efficiency is said to drop about 1% a year. As long as you have a solid roof with metal or fairly new shingles when installed you should be good for 20-25 years with new systems. That being said micro inverters on the roof are known to fail after 8-10 years. Look into the type of system you are getting and make sure the installers are knowledgeable about the product they are putting on your roof. My apologies for miserable literacy.
I live in Mass, on the North Shore. I've had solar panels since I got them at the very end of December of 2019, so I got the bigger tax credit. My roof isn't optimized as I have an east/west facing ranch.
I used: New England Clean Energy and I had a great experience with them. They were recommended by a coworker and by using them they paid both him and myself a bit of cash, which was great.
2020: 7.57 MWh
2021: 7.00 MWh
2022: 7.55 MWh
2023: 6.65 MWh (as of today)
I thought posting my numbers might be interesting for people.
I'm thinking about going solar when I retire (at the end of this December). My Mom is an oxygen patient, so power-outages can quickly turn into an emergency. This is a fantastically educational video!!! Thank you so much for posting!!!
@Shane888 Davies oxygen compressor requires 110v AC. No tanks.
Also a generator would help with relatively short term power outages.
Will you have enough tax to write off to get the rebates?
@@richardpage2555 Good question, I didn't even think of that!
Or you get get a generator installed to your gas line for about $8k less.
Well, since you asked; I do have some feedback about my experience putting solar on my house. Some things I stumbled on ...
1. You cannot just look at your roof area to calculate what you can put up. There are required set backs from the edges to allow firefighters to do their job.
2. There apparently are some code requirements for spacing between your electrical panel and the gas line (meter?) If you increase your electrical panel current then that spacing may need to increase. Exactly how this is done? I don't know, I declined. I scaled back my system so it wasn't necessary.
3. Increasing your electrical panel current with your solar may require updating your service lines from the power grid. If you have service from an overhead line, maybe not such a big deal, but if the power lines are below ground then there will be some trenching involved. I declined to have a system large enough to make this necessary. I may change my mind later.
Was the purchase and installation worth it? Yes, absolutely. I expect to achieve break even after about 7 years from purchase.
for me, its two therapeutic values: one is knowing I'm somewhat independent of the (reliable) grid, the other is the rip-off energy costs from the main supplier. Mine is only a small installation but looking to increase it 250% this year.
We live in Arizona about 30 miles west of Phoenix. Our 2,300' home has a 7kW system that was installed in 2019. To date, we've had $0 electricity costs over the past 4 years. The past 2 years we've had excess credit checks from the utility for about $240 and $150. For our next billing we might need to pay $10-15 for the first time in years, but then credit built up in November/December will offset that amount and we continue to build credit into June, maybe July. The original cost was $21K, or $14K after discounts. ROI will be under 6.5 years. We've had no problems and no additional costs since the system was installed on our newly built home. With record heat this summer I've read many horror stories about electric bills in the range of $500-1,000+. We are very happy to have solar.
I've had solar for 3 years. One thing I wish I had known was that you need to compare the net metering numbers the system produces compared to what the utility is registering. It turns out that my system started misreporting my consumption some time in the first year, probably due to a loose CT in the electric panel. I then bought an EV thinking I had massively excess production -- it wasn't true. So now I have an electric bill again during winter. The EV was still a good choice for a myriad of reasons, but it's no longer "free" to run like we initially thought it would be.
Another lesson learned is to use a solar installer with a local footprint. My installer is a big company in multiple states, including my state, but they don't have an office/warehouse in my area. So for service issues, I have to schedule visits that come from across the state, adding additional turnaround time.
Thank you Matt - great video. I have seen the same saving over the 10 years we have had solar panels on our roof (43 panels). Last year we had $300 in electricity bills - that's it! Net metering is great!
How much did you pay for those many panels?
@Stephen Crowley
And what general area are you located?
This video completely swapped out my plan for a roof mount to a ground mount array. Yes, we have the room, but the point is that none of the firms I approached were considering a ground mount solution.
A wall of snow on the driveway and front steps would be frustrating if not dangerous.
Taking it a step further, this led to other benefits.
Access for cleaning.
Maintenance access.
Expansion possibility by having ability to add more panels on the rack.
Better backside lighting for efficiency.
Lessening opportunity for overheat of inverters.
Privacy.
A lot easier and less dangerous to DYI, can save on changes, maintenance. Will be crazy to place them on a roof having good land available.
Great video. Not very long, slick, informative. I felt like Matt was in my house just hanging and talking about the subject.
Just went through our first winter with solar and I really wish I knew about the snow issue. Even with just a few inches of snow, when it melts, it can be quite spectacular when it comes crashing down.
It does that without solar panels also. The snow started to melt and ripped off my gutter.
Good call on the snowy roof thing. When I was in college, my dorm got maybe 8 inches of snow on the roof which all came down at once and crushed a line of parked cars. Caved-in roofs, shattered windshields, dented hoods - couldn't believe how much damage this can cause. But it can.
We installed a 9.9 kw solar system that went live in August 2022. I did all the installation myself and the total cost was $15600 for panels, pieces, parts, permits, engiineers etc... We live in Pennsylvania with a perfect south facing roof. We have produced 4.8 mega watts in 2022 and 10.7 so far through September of 2023. Since we have 1:1 net metering our electric bill has been the minimum $15.40 for every month except January of this year when we ran out of credits. Unfortunately in May the power company pays you for any credits you have at that time, so you can't save up for the winter. In May we produced 1.6 KW!! So with the March, April, May production we had 994 kw for which we got paid $180. SREC's are only $40 per KW. I figure our payback is 4 to 5 years. So far an excellent decision.
We used 24 - 415 watt Mission Solar panels, an American made panel, and enphase microinverters. Definitely use those and not one big inverter. The wiring is simple if you know anything about electricity, so do the install yourself and save a lot of cash.
20+ years off grid with solar. You made some good points and proper orientation for panels to get the most output is critical. A roof mount may not be the best option and you can do a ground mount or possibly a garage or patio mount instead. Ground mount also reduces snow build up and rain issues and are easier to maintain.
Having a battery backup really is the best option and you want enough storage capacity to handle basic needs for at least 3 days. Blackouts are lasting longer now due to more storms and an antiquated grid.
I suggest a hybrid system for city dwellers that is grid tied but can also be switched to full off grid in the event there is a long term blackout or you just don't want that grid connection at some point.
With the right appliances you do not need a huge system and many US homes can be powered by just a 5-7Kw system. My system is only 1Kw and I have most appliances as any grid home.
Good luck on the new house and I am interested to see the new setup!
What inverter do you use? Assume hybrid but which one please?
I use a PowerDrive pure sine 1000 watt inverter. Handles everything in the cabin.
Hi Matt, I enjoy watching your videos especially on solar. I live in Queensland Australia and have had solar panels since 2016. My current system is 6.63KW with a fronius primo inverter. My panel arrays are east and west facing. Average power production is 7.6MW pa, My wife and I consume on avg 6.41MW pa and self consume 2.6MW pa (our own power) meaning we are only buying 3.81MW pa from the grid at a cost of 22c per kw AUD. We export around 5MW to the grid each year for that we recieve 11.5c for the first 5kw per day then 5c every kw after that. For installation costs the whole system cost $7,400 AUD after a STC discount was applied which reduced the price by $1,400. making the price $6,000AUD included in that price we also had to have our meter upgraded to read grid exports and a fronius smart meter installed(so i can meter everything myself) Thought you might appreciate how differn't costing is in Aus vs US and power production
Cheers Paul
My wife and I got a grid-tie system in November for our home using a local company. We have been steadily paying only the account fee ever since. We are now in our lowest usage season, and I enjoy watching the meter fly backward. Our city power department is not yet doing any kind of buyback, but the banked power is a nice feature... they only charge if the meter tops out the previous high reading (and we'll set this floor forever sometime in August per our projections). We were lucky to have a south-facing carport roof with R-panel angled the same as our latitude, so installation was cheapest and our sun angle is optimal. This was not a hard decision to make. No battery yet... the Texas grid did improve last year, and renewable generation has soared in the state. I think the main value of our investment is buttressing against rising energy costs.
When the panels are facing east and west instead of south, it will give you less peak at midday. But at the "ideal" south direction you would probably only fit panels on that side of the roof. East west oriented panels usually give the higher output over the year. On flat roofs we always place the panels east/ west where i live.
That makes no sense what-so-ever...
One note on solar panels and house value. We recently moved and we were buying a house with solar panels. Our loan company said they wouldn't give us the loan if the panels were not fully paid for. I know it is pretty popular in New Mexico where a different company owns your panels and you pay a flat rate, but at least for our loan, the company said that was a deal breaker. Luckily the house had paid off their panels so it was a non issue.
Yes. That's because, if the solar panel company goes bankrupt or payments are missed, title to the entire home can be impaired. It's a potentially very bad deal for homeowner as well as lender.
This is a big consideration for home owners thinking of adding panels too. When you go to sell if your panels aren't paid off you can be spending a considerable chunk of your equity closing those loans.
Did the seller include the solar panels with the house deal?
My coworker bought a new house with solar panels. (It’s law in my state that every new house be built with solar panels. Bc my state is so smart.) His arrangement is he leases the panels.
It’s like buying a mobile home. You own the home but you still pay rent.
He said the lease payments are low, for now.
FHA, FNMA and Freddie Mac who largely make the rules for residential lending do not permit the additional value that panels might add to the property if they are not fully owned. That's okay though because solar panels in most areas do not add to value according to what many of my appraiser colleagues say. It is extremely rare despite the representations of the solar company. I am in New Jersey and done many detailed analysis to isolate the incremental value contribution of solar panels and found nothing. I have an open mind and I cannot categorically say they do not add to value but be aware.
Keep in mind; Financed panels are another financial hurdle for potential buyers to achieve to be able to purchase your home. Some people object to the appearance of solar panels.
Electric in New Jersey has been rapidly rising so solar panels may still be a good choice for you.
Lot's of good information (as usual) Matt. One concern I would have, possibly misplaced, on the VPP part of your talk is how it will affect the lifespan of the battery with the extra charge/discharge cycles. Would you please address that question?
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I'll agree your electric usage does seem a little high, but IIRC your home is pretty much _ALL_ electric. Our average power use is right around 540kWh per month, but we have a gas furnace and water heater (both fairly efficient).
In Texas we have frequent hailstorms, and have replaced our roof twice in 10 years, so make sure you get hail insurance in some areas, which may add 20% to the initial cost.
I am thankful I live in Denver. Our 7.5 kwh system averages around 10 MWh/year and our savings has been $17K over 13 years.
An expense I've never seen addressed (and I've posted it on 5-6 specialty YT channels without anyone ever replying) is how much it costs EXTRA when you need your roof re-shingled. I would think a couple/few thousand at least for the panels to be moved/disconnected, the roof work to be done, and then the panels to be reattached. True, you're good for about 20 years after that, but if you already have some wear on your roof when the panels are installed, you'll be looking at less than 20.
This is a major issue that gets glossed over or not mentioned and can actually affect the value of the house in a negative way.
The roof under the panels will last basically forever.
@@stargazer7644 Are you referring to a specialty roof installed specifically with the intention to put solar panels up? Because normal, everyday shingle roofs typically last 20-25 years and that's if the best shingling material are used.
@@anthonyc1883 That's if they're exposed to sunlight for 20-25 years. Regular asphalt shingles last a very long time covered by solar panels.
@@stargazer7644 But I've never seen a solar panel installation that completely covers the entire roof, edge to edge, top/bottom/sides. There's always shingling visible above, below and on the sides of the panels. So those areas are getting normal, constant environmental wear even if what's directly underneath the panels is shielded from the sun.
I am in Arkansas and this past September, I installed a DIY ground mount system at my farm. The utility here has 1-1 net metering. The other advantage is they allow for other meters that your responsible for to be connected to the same net metering account. I have a condo that I am offsetting my electric bill on. So for the past 8 months, I have had a 0 net metering kWh for both locations. Also the fact that the system is ground mount, I am not worried about roof issues or access if I ever have to perform maintenance on the array. I consider solar to be a WIN.
How much did it cost you?
Also live in Arkansas. After a year and a half,I still haven’t seen the benefit from my solar panels.
The lifetime production of a year 1/2 is 13.7 MWH; however, I only receive a 60% production credit.
It’s been one headache after another. Entergy is a nightmare to work with.
That being said, I’ve read where if the installer omitted the RGM import/export setup, entergy only allows 60% of your production. It’s odd no one informed me about this issue.
After speaking with the engineer of the company, he tried to add RGM virtually but there was an issue with my meter; therefore,one of their technicians will soon make the necessary upgrades.
Will see if Entergy honors their agreement.
Very informative video, thanks for sharing! You might want to use micro inverters that will handle the LG panels, you are losing alot of power they being clipped at 290 watts(iq6 plus max input), if you have the 335 lg neon 2 they normally produce 400 watts , the 400w neon 2 make 480 watts. I have over 300 of the lgs installed at my properties and was blown away at what they produced when I removed the enphase micros.
Great video. I live in Austria and I have only just installed a 14.7 kwh system with a 20.7 kwh battery pack and the whole thing cost us just over €50k. That is expensive but so far even on really overcast and rainy days the system has covered 100% of our electricity.
Hopefully your system will last long enough to see realized cost savings.
@@macfady2181 thanks. So far its looking good. In the 3 months I have had the system it has saved me over €1700. We are only currently using 30% of our capacity.
@@macfady2181 Our electricity and natural gas averages $200.00 US dollars a month or less with a 4 bedroom house and we use AC all summer long and keep our home comfortably warm all winter .... it would take a lot of years to pay that off....
@@macfady2181 It wont
In our case the company we hired went bankrupt after a tax incentive program was cancelled. Few years later 1 panel stopped working and when we had it looked at by another company it turned out that the first bunch majorly botched the install and we were on the hook for an additional $9k to get everything essentially re-installed. If you can get any kind of insurance on your install I'd highly recommend it! Of course I'm also very annoyed with our city inspectors that was supposed to find these issues before the install was completed but they were useless.
We went with Powur but we almost went with Pink solar or something and I think they also went bankrupt.
Great video! I had my solar installed last year. System size is very similar to yours. I’m two months in from activation and so far have generated more than I have used, even while charging my Tesla at home. Living in Texas I don’t have as many incentives as you do, but overall it’s been a great experience. Happy to share my installer experience with anyone in Texas that would like! Thanks again 😊
Be interesting seeing how home wind power would affect the equation.
I'd love to know any of the financial numbers you're working with. I'm also in Texas and couldn't find a quote for less than $60-80k for a smaller system than what was installed in the video, don't have net metering, and our cost for electricity is usually less than 15c/kWh on average (sometimes under 10c).
I have a 5.6kW system and a Powerwall Plus in the foothills of Colorado. I installed this system to control future energy costs as prices rise. I am going to expand it to 7.2kW. Reason being is I knew the days in November to January were short, but when it comes to power production, those days are really short! If it gets cloudy at all I am likely purchasing a bit of power. The additional panels will get me over the hump for my usage.
Adding the Powerwall was a no brainer. I am a zero fan of solar without energy storage. My background is in green energy R&D on the engineering side. The Powerwall gives me way more flexibility to control costs. One way is on cloudy or rain/snow days where production is limited. I can charge the battery from the grid "off-peak" and power up my home and shop during "on-peak" pricing.
lol I only have a 4.25 array and I got the same annual production as you. The joy of a perfect unshaded southerly roof exposure with plenty of sun.
We have had solar for 18 years and it is still working great. Our panels came from Canada with a 300 pound snow limit and the contractor did that because we live in Florida with hurricanes and strong winds like they have up in Canada at times our bill is a third of what it would be including a heated pool and hot water that you never have to boil water ever again.
Size and return on value are critical calculations to perform. I have a shed that is used as an office, and I wanted to use solar to power it. Found a nice $4k kit that my installer told me would do the job easily. Like you said never take someone's word for it but do the math yourself. Which is very difficult because there are no standards in the industry. Some report battery storage one way while another completely differently. In short, my experience was horrible. To power a shed that had computers, lights, fan or AC etc... the number of batteries necessary to run it through the night were MASSIVE. I'd need to almost build a separate shed for the batteries themselves. It's really something you have to investigate well. A lot of people think these solar panels will power your entire house easily, but the reality is people usually only power certain appliances or outlets from them. It's a worthwhile field but personally I feel it really needs regulation and better standards. I ended up giving up on the system and plugging into the almighty grid instead. Good video however.
A thing that's a little frustrating is you hardly see anything that keeps the power DC for electronic equipment. When you want solar to run a bunch of computer/electronic equipment (and LED lights), the panels generate DC power, then it goes through an expensive component to invert that to AC power then you plug in your electronic equipment that converts the AC power back to DC. So much is unnecessarily lost in the conversions. I've seen some complicated DIY setups that use just DC, but I haven't seen much available to consumers.
@@brendancurtin679 Because DC in high amps is very dangerous.
@@muddyriverdogz sure, but so is AC at similar wattage. I'll address that, but also, I'm not talking about wiring up a whole home with DC power. I'm talking about near your battery bank or specific short runs. Why isn't there much, if any, "off the shelf" (so to speak) solutions for powering some DC equipment directly from the batteries/solar without inverting to AC and converting right back?
Personally, I'd be interested in a small off-grid solar system at my house that would let me take my home network and some computer equipment off-grid and also have a little DC-DC charging station for other batteries (cordless tools, phones/tablets, etc.). It'd be nice to have that all functioning during a power outage. And I also would think it would use less energy with the conversion losses.
Even for folks who want whole home solar, who then need an inverter, I feel like it would still be nice to have the option of some DC-DC uses. As an imperfect analogy, think of adding a water softener to your home. You want most of the water softened, but you might want to add a branch before the water softener to send un-softened water to your hoses and maybe fridge/kitchen (if you prefer the taste). Obviously, sending unsoftened water around your house doesn't require much larger pipes or whatever, so it's not exactly the same. But I think you get the point.
As far as the higher danger, I don't think that's a big issue (especially for the use cases I'm talking about). DC is maybe slightly more dangerous than AC at the same wattage in two ways I can think of that can be accounted for to mitigate the danger. Because DC is lower voltage and higher amperage for the same wattage, you need to account for that with lower gauge (thicker) wire to handle the higher amperage at the same wattage to avoid overheating/fires (e.g., 12VDC will be 10x the amperage for the same wattage as 120VAC). (You'd also want shorter runs, but that's more about losses than danger). And for high amperage DC, you need disconnects (like the switches on UK outlets) to avoid dangerous arcing when "unplugging"' things drawing a load. Other than those two things that can be accounted for, I don't think it's really any more dangerous than AC. The big reason AC won out over DC was that AC can be transmitted at much higher voltage which results in more efficiency and significantly lower material cost for conductors and generation.
@@brendancurtin679 AC is not near as dangerous as DC. DC at 110 volts witch is most of your house wiring would kill you !
@@muddyriverdogz who said anything about DC at 110 volts?
For home energy storage, a more economical option is to use redox-flow batteries. They also have a better environmental footprint.
Solar panels on garage are two years old, roof underneath is 12 years old. Hail damaged the roof, but shingles under the panels were fine as were the panels. Our insurance would have covered removing the panels, but there was no need. We only replaced the side that was damaged.
Thank you for another great video. I suppose getting solar panels is inevitable, especially considering the price of electricity these days. My neighbor installed solar panels a couple years back, and the biggest unexpected problem he discovered is pigeons. Apparently that little gap between the roof and the bottom of the panel is irresistible for them. They like to snuggle under there in bad weather and build their nests at the edge of the panels. He's constantly shooing them away and breaking up nests.
If birds are a problem maybe, he could skirt the panels with chicken wire. Only an idea but it might work for him.