This is the first I have heard of this, shading on part of a panel may or will cause failure, this is very important I understand this, please give me more information on this.
14:00 oversizing means what here is called overpanelling. Here the temperature coeffcient is more important for detecting lowest operation temperature before the cell might cross Vmax of the inverter. From the usual 25°C to the -15°C there are -40°C x - 0,3% / °C = 12% higher voltage. We put here big panels on the roofs, about 29 kg with 550 Wp which lowers the costs of the underconstruction on the roof a lot, an awfull lot since aluminium profile costs have skyrocket. The 550 Wp are an awfull lot cheaper if you take the mounting into account, therefore more and more get the 2,26 x 1,13 m panel size on the roof.
I think smaller panels are often used on home roofs so they can easier work around vent pipes and other obstructions. Large panels are best for ground-mount or unobstructed carport/gazebo roof (mine). Since panels are now slightly cheaper than inverters, most over-panel ~20%. You only restrict capacity at max Summer sunlight, so a better match for the whole year.
I’m not sure if optimisers would help, but micro-inverters would. My understanding is that micros are also gentler on the bypass diode. However I can’t get any panel manufacturer to agree with me on that.
For UK domestic roof installs it is insanely restrictive to avoid all shading. As was said 'we have a rooftop issue'. LONGi and other manufacturers might want to divert some of that R&D money into designing panels that can fully accommodate shading. They appear all too willing to wash their hands of this real world issue and blame installers for installing panels in real world conditions. Just imagine if every plant died if there was any shading on any of its leaves. When put that way it seems absurd to say that solar panels should only exist where there is an absence of all shading. There is only a system issue because there is a deficit in PV technology!
Today my Longi Hi-mo6 explorer 430w panels were newly installed on my house. I have build quality issue with that. The paint from the black panel frame was chipping easily during installation. Actualy there was lot of scatches and chipping already on the panel frame which arrived before the installation. According to the manufactures datasheet of this panel. The frame is black anodized aluminium. Which is probably a lie, because anodized aluminium can hardly be scratched and even more difficult to chip . The finish on my Hi-mo6 can easily scratched, and chips easily too.
Interesting. I don’t usually see issues with frames. The underside probably would get scuffed when putting it on the rail, but like you say, it should be anodised. But I will check that out.
Nope. Good point. But to be fair, manufacturers often do accelerated testing to simulate a longer time. That’s not exactly what they do with panels but there are a lot of tests that they need to pass like hail, wind, humidity. 25 years is still a joke.
Longi’s R&D investment is very shady if you actually dig into their finantial reports. There is a huge discrepancy between their R&D investment and R&D expense which is significant lower. If you look carefully in their breakdowns, they included items like employee salary (which should go into administrative cost), cost of defective products, and even airline tickets into R&D investment so that they can be qualified as a “high-tech” company and thus receive tax incentives that they normally do not deserve because their R&D expenditure is too low.
Subtitles might be via AI Bot which doesn't understand Aussie well. I have Longi Hi MO 5m LR5-72HPH 555 W panels. Here searching if they have internal bypass diodes (spec sheet doesn't mention). I wonder since I see a great increase in power output when one panel in a string of 7 comes out of shade at 10 am in July (U.S.). If diodes, they should just bypass the single shaded panel, not limit the whole string. If no diodes, I need external optimizers to get more power in the morning. (Can't trim the neighbor's tree). No shading in Winter. The Summer sun rises and sets ~45 deg north of East-West on June 21 at 38.6 deg latitude.
Have you tried Aiko PV panels? Look an interesting proposition; high efficiency and improved shading characteristics on the gen2; saw it up close at a recent trade show.
Yes that is an interesting panel. I’m convinced that shading comparison they did will only work with micro inverters not string inverters, so seems a bit misleading. Everyone is talking about it. I’ll find out about it soon and do a review.
LONGi breaks world record of 33.9% efficiency of crystalline silicon-perovskite tandem solar cells at 19th CSPV. And is certified by NREL(U.S Department of Energy)
@@crypticanswerz yes, yes I do already know that.. but given I have seen Jinko multiple times simply ask the installer on the phone if its screwed, they accept his word and authorize him to do a replacement on the spot and credit the installer. Doesnt get any more no fuss than that, thats Jinko Warranty in Practice
The issue about Hi-mo 6 is that it is based on P-type cells, which inherits all shortcomings from P-type solar which will end up hurting life-time performance despite some may announce higher conversion efficiency (which can also be shady). I would recommend wait for a year or two when N-type are more mature, and the prices go down, and install N-type modules instead.
It sounds like there is a business opportunity to set up a warehouse and retail operation selling used panels and maybe inverters. Or - are smarter people ahead of me?
@@mcelectricalAhh that is like a dating service for buyers and sellers. I was thinking more like a business that would buy and/or remove old PV equipment and then sell them out of a warehouse or shopfront. You referred to a wreckers in the video and that's what I had in mind. That would require a testing facility and some kind of warranty, but is similar to the firms selling 2nd hand business computers. I assume if installers are upgrading an existing system you or the customer have to dispose of the old equipment, either by selling through a market-place like that or by having your employees take it to the dump and paying fees.
Hi Mark,At minute 8, you easily broke a Longi cell.How will these handle in a hail storm ( 22 .5 degree roof pitch) Do they handle it well, or if they're the size of golf balls ,will my investment get smashed.
Big hail storms can cause micro fractures. But at that stage, your roof would also be destroyed, and you would be doing an insurance claim. You can get it inspected with a thermal camera to pick up microcracks.
What to choose i got a calculation in spain for 5kW with instalation 10x tensite 6k 12 longi 8.5k Tensite Monocritalino PERC 500 W VS LONGi Hi-MO5m 66HPH-G2 510W
I’ve never heard of tensite. But why are they quoting large solar farm panels on such a small job? Is that common in Spain? You should be looking at something with dementions of around 1700x1100
Yes, unfortunately they have refused to change their installation manual, so the panels warranty can be void if installed in the shade according to the manual.
No, it’s because if the panel is ever shaded, the warranty is technically void. I don’t like the pro rata approach either, when the work of replacing a panel, and a suitable panel should be covered.
Can you comment about passing shade and warranty By that I mean a single narrow palm tree to the north of the house that casts shade sweeping across the lower edge of the roof for approximately 2 months in the middle of winter. So two to 4 panels at a time get partly shaded as the shade sweeps from west to east.
Yes, technically your warranty can be void with most panels. They intentionally write their docs that way. Who knows what the manufacturer will say in 10 or 15 years time , if that shade is suspected to hav damaged your panel. I asked longi to clarify this over a year ago. They refused.
@@mcelectrical Depending on the definition of shading there are probably very few installs that don't atleast, start and finish the day with only some and parts of panels in sunlight. Shaded?
The bypass diodes will fail if they are shaded too often. If they fail open, then the cell will get damaged. The issue is they offer 25 year warranty but don’t seem to know how panel will handle shade over that period.
@@mcelectricalI look forward to hearing how the performance of himo6 panels goes when you install some on your warehouse roof vs existing sunpower and Qcells and Lg panels etc you have up there already.
21:50 mark. Mentioning warranty and only giving a customer $100. Doesn’t this now draw issues with Australian law and consumer warranty? Given that products are meant to last a fair and reasonable time. Think back to how quickly Apple got shafted when they tried to deny warranty on an oldish product. Apple got smacked hard by ACCC
When I saw them manufactured, not all the cells were flashing. Too many connection points, too new tech. There are some other things i can’t say, but fair to say I am not confident with what I saw. Then, a few years later I heard a lot of anecdotal reports of shingle panels failing. Made sense to me.
all i hear is home solar is a waste of time and money. panel's fail ezy shading which impossible to avoid clouds will wrench them. and forget replacement cuz wont be same size.
This is the first time that I have heard of shading damaging panels. I’ve been researching videos and online. This is the first mentioned shade damage ?
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It is great to see someone who is so across the knowledge of their product
Thanks Pete, I’m learning every day.
Great interview Mark, this and the Meyer Burger one have been a great addition.
And much thanks for pointing out the Longi warranty issues
Thanks @cryptic. More to come!
apparently not just Longi have the same warranty procedures
This is the first I have heard of this, shading on part of a panel may or will cause failure, this is very important I understand this, please give me more information on this.
Here's a video exposing solar panel warranty loopholes relating to shade: mce.solar/warrantyexposed
I would like to see a comparison test between solar hot water V heat pumps with tariff.
14:00 oversizing means what here is called overpanelling.
Here the temperature coeffcient is more important for detecting lowest operation temperature before the cell might cross Vmax of the inverter. From the usual 25°C to the -15°C there are -40°C x - 0,3% / °C = 12% higher voltage.
We put here big panels on the roofs, about 29 kg with 550 Wp which lowers the costs of the underconstruction on the roof a lot, an awfull lot since aluminium profile costs have skyrocket.
The 550 Wp are an awfull lot cheaper if you take the mounting into account, therefore more and more get the 2,26 x 1,13 m panel size on the roof.
Interesting, where do you live?
I think smaller panels are often used on home roofs so they can easier work around vent pipes and other obstructions. Large panels are best for ground-mount or unobstructed carport/gazebo roof (mine). Since panels are now slightly cheaper than inverters, most over-panel ~20%. You only restrict capacity at max Summer sunlight, so a better match for the whole year.
Great video. May optimisers mitigate the shade issue by reducing chances of developing hotspots?
I’m not sure if optimisers would help, but micro-inverters would. My understanding is that micros are also gentler on the bypass diode. However I can’t get any panel manufacturer to agree with me on that.
For UK domestic roof installs it is insanely restrictive to avoid all shading. As was said 'we have a rooftop issue'. LONGi and other manufacturers might want to divert some of that R&D money into designing panels that can fully accommodate shading. They appear all too willing to wash their hands of this real world issue and blame installers for installing panels in real world conditions. Just imagine if every plant died if there was any shading on any of its leaves. When put that way it seems absurd to say that solar panels should only exist where there is an absence of all shading. There is only a system issue because there is a deficit in PV technology!
Amen to that. Panels will cope with a certain amount of shade, but few manufacturers will draw a line in the sand.
Forgive my ignorance... What is it about shading that damages the panel?
@@RobAldredgreat question, this video explains how shading damages panels: th-cam.com/video/vjeagMFvNIc/w-d-xo.html
Today my Longi Hi-mo6 explorer 430w panels were newly installed on my house. I have build quality issue with that. The paint from the black panel frame was chipping easily during installation. Actualy there was lot of scatches and chipping already on the panel frame which arrived before the installation. According to the manufactures datasheet of this panel. The frame is black anodized aluminium. Which is probably a lie, because anodized aluminium can hardly be scratched and even more difficult to chip . The finish on my Hi-mo6 can easily scratched, and chips easily too.
Interesting. I don’t usually see issues with frames. The underside probably would get scuffed when putting it on the rail, but like you say, it should be anodised. But I will check that out.
Since solar panel manufacturer gives 25 years warranty, can they show the same which was sold 25 years ago ?
Nope. Good point. But to be fair, manufacturers often do accelerated testing to simulate a longer time. That’s not exactly what they do with panels but there are a lot of tests that they need to pass like hail, wind, humidity. 25 years is still a joke.
Longi’s R&D investment is very shady if you actually dig into their finantial reports. There is a huge discrepancy between their R&D investment and R&D expense which is significant lower. If you look carefully in their breakdowns, they included items like employee salary (which should go into administrative cost), cost of defective products, and even airline tickets into R&D investment so that they can be qualified as a “high-tech” company and thus receive tax incentives that they normally do not deserve because their R&D expenditure is too low.
That’s really interesting. How did you find this out, and what was your motivation?
I sent you long paragraphs explaining every single details regarding how Longi lies to others, but why it got deleted?@@mcelectrical
@mcelectrical ....... definitely a very active member 😆
Subtitles might be via AI Bot which doesn't understand Aussie well. I have Longi Hi MO 5m LR5-72HPH 555 W panels. Here searching if they have internal bypass diodes (spec sheet doesn't mention). I wonder since I see a great increase in power output when one panel in a string of 7 comes out of shade at 10 am in July (U.S.). If diodes, they should just bypass the single shaded panel, not limit the whole string. If no diodes, I need external optimizers to get more power in the morning. (Can't trim the neighbor's tree). No shading in Winter. The Summer sun rises and sets ~45 deg north of East-West on June 21 at 38.6 deg latitude.
Have you tried Aiko PV panels? Look an interesting proposition; high efficiency and improved shading characteristics on the gen2; saw it up close at a recent trade show.
Yes that is an interesting panel. I’m convinced that shading comparison they did will only work with micro inverters not string inverters, so seems a bit misleading. Everyone is talking about it. I’ll find out about it soon and do a review.
LONGi breaks world record of 33.9% efficiency of crystalline silicon-perovskite tandem solar cells at 19th CSPV. And is certified by NREL(U.S Department of Energy)
Interesting. Perovskite panels are not too far away. That will be another big leap it seems!
Just sealed the deal for Jinko Tiger Neo N-type 54HL4R-(V) 440W.. I think I'll stick with Jinko for the Warranty, they have a good rep for Warranty
you do know their warranty has the same garbage prorata stuff right?
@@crypticanswerz yes, yes I do already know that.. but given I have seen Jinko multiple times simply ask the installer on the phone if its screwed, they accept his word and authorize him to do a replacement on the spot and credit the installer. Doesnt get any more no fuss than that, thats Jinko Warranty in Practice
The issue about Hi-mo 6 is that it is based on P-type cells, which inherits all shortcomings from P-type solar which will end up hurting life-time performance despite some may announce higher conversion efficiency (which can also be shady). I would recommend wait for a year or two when N-type are more mature, and the prices go down, and install N-type modules instead.
@@delightXD thats what I have right.. N Type?
Question is are Longi the only manufacturer to have this sort of warranty?
No! Check out this video where where I talk about other manufacturers. th-cam.com/video/vjeagMFvNIc/w-d-xo.html
Love your work guys.
is hi mo 6 is ols technology then hi mo 5?????? which one is better among both??? except perforamce
How do people with solar panels on RV’s / motor homes/ camper vans get around the partial shading problem ? I think this would happen a lot.
Each panel uses it's own mptt channel
Warranties are generally void if the panel
Is mounted on a camper. But, yes also individual mppts is probably the best way for evs
Good one Mark.
Thanks :)
It sounds like there is a business opportunity to set up a warehouse and retail operation selling used panels and maybe inverters. Or - are smarter people ahead of me?
Yes there is a smarter person ahead of you :) This is a new site but it will probably take off soon. solartrader.com.au/how-it-works/
@@mcelectricalAhh that is like a dating service for buyers and sellers.
I was thinking more like a business that would buy and/or remove old PV equipment and then sell them out of a warehouse or shopfront. You referred to a wreckers in the video and that's what I had in mind. That would require a testing facility and some kind of warranty, but is similar to the firms selling 2nd hand business computers.
I assume if installers are upgrading an existing system you or the customer have to dispose of the old equipment, either by selling through a market-place like that or by having your employees take it to the dump and paying fees.
Hi Mark,At minute 8, you easily broke a Longi cell.How will these handle in a hail storm ( 22 .5 degree roof pitch) Do they handle it well, or if they're the size of golf balls ,will my investment get smashed.
Big hail storms can cause micro fractures. But at that stage, your roof would also be destroyed, and you would be doing an insurance claim. You can get it inspected with a thermal camera to pick up microcracks.
I have heard Himo 6 efficiency is not good and have heating issues! Can you please confirm?
Thanks
Hi PGB. Sounds like a scare tactic from a sales man to me. Makes no sense.
What to choose i got a calculation in spain for 5kW with instalation
10x tensite 6k
12 longi 8.5k
Tensite Monocritalino PERC 500 W
VS
LONGi Hi-MO5m 66HPH-G2 510W
I’ve never heard of tensite. But why are they quoting large solar farm panels on such a small job? Is that common in Spain? You should be looking at something with dementions of around 1700x1100
is there an update reagrding why you dont recommend longi
Yes, unfortunately they have refused to change their installation manual, so the panels warranty can be void if installed in the shade according to the manual.
I missed why you don’t sell Longi, is it because their pro rata approach to refunding warranty issues?
No, it’s because if the panel is ever shaded, the warranty is technically void. I don’t like the pro rata approach either, when the work of replacing a panel, and a suitable panel should be covered.
@@markcavanagh thank you!
Can you comment about passing shade and warranty By that I mean a single narrow palm tree to the north of the house that casts shade sweeping across the lower edge of the roof for approximately 2 months in the middle of winter. So two to 4 panels at a time get partly shaded as the shade sweeps from west to east.
Yes, technically your warranty can be void with most panels. They intentionally write their docs that way. Who knows what the manufacturer will say in 10 or 15 years time , if that shade is suspected to hav damaged your panel. I asked longi to clarify this over a year ago. They refused.
@@mcelectrical Depending on the definition of shading there are probably very few installs that don't atleast, start and finish the day with only some and parts of panels in sunlight. Shaded?
Shouldn't thr bypass diodes handle the shade and keep the panel from braking?
The bypass diodes will fail if they are shaded too often. If they fail open, then the cell will get damaged. The issue is they offer 25 year warranty but don’t seem to know how panel will handle shade over that period.
Si if a heavy cloud goes over and shades a panel between 10 and 2pm it voids warranty?
Hmm, maybe. Ask Longi. It’s the same with most panel manufacturers. I’m trying to ask them for guidelines, but they seem to prefer being vague.
@@mcelectricalI look forward to hearing how the performance of himo6 panels goes when you install some on your warehouse roof vs existing sunpower and Qcells and Lg panels etc you have up there already.
what if there on micros for warranty ???
They claim to have a 30% efficient panel, which will go into large scale production soon.
Yeh I think that is 30 percent cell efficiency. Pretty big things happening in solar!
Should consider microcracks with recycled panels going back online after probably rough manipulation.
Solitek is best in NorthernEurope. I use a allblack bifacial from Solitek.
21:50 mark. Mentioning warranty and only giving a customer $100. Doesn’t this now draw issues with Australian law and consumer warranty? Given that products are meant to last a fair and reasonable time. Think back to how quickly Apple got shafted when they tried to deny warranty on an oldish product. Apple got smacked hard by ACCC
HiMo-6 is still using P-Type older technology instead of N-Type TopCon latest technology
They added gallium which supposedly stabilize and increase the lifespan of the cells thought.
Looking to buy the new HiMo6???? I might know a guy.
What's your issue with shingled panels?
When I saw them manufactured, not all the cells were flashing. Too many connection points, too new tech. There are some other things i can’t say, but fair to say I am not confident with what I saw. Then, a few years later I heard a lot of anecdotal reports of shingle panels failing. Made sense to me.
@@mcelectrical m
stcik with double glass
Glass Glass is relatively new to the market. Sounds good. I hope it works out long term.
Not that impressive in terms of durability and robustness - I'll stick with flexi-panels.
unnecessarily lengthy video.
Thanks for your feedback.
all i hear is home solar is a waste of time and money. panel's fail ezy shading which impossible to avoid clouds will wrench them. and forget replacement cuz wont be same size.
Listen again, it’s that’s now what we were saying!
This is the first time that I have heard of shading damaging panels.
I’ve been researching videos and online. This is the first mentioned shade damage ?
Oh right, I’ve done a few videos about it. Check this one. th-cam.com/video/vjeagMFvNIc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=QOV_bljA0LHQ3ffB