Hi, as a Thai fan. I agree to most of this but I would like to add some details. Chaoplanoy’s stories are problematic af for example Blank the series The original novel is literally illegal because Aneung is 18, in the novel. but for series they changed her age to 20 because the drama about her being a minor. As a series,the age gap isn’t a wrong thing and saying pedo isn’t quite accurate. 20yo is already considered young adult. But, I would agree if you criticize the novel version on this point tho. - The secret of us I don’t know about the original novel. But saying that emotional abuse makes this film toxic or problematic is confusing. it is normal that the emotional abuse is in the plot. in real life some people deal with that. They are not promoting. it’s just for the conflict. The film is just showing that this behavior is bad. then, in the end the characters fixed the problem and live together peacefully. -Saying all of them are straight is not right. Engfah, Faye, Milk, Namtan, Orm, Ciize and Yinganada are all sapphic. So, watching Gl is still supporting lgbtq people. plus normalizing gl in a culture is also a form of support. -Yes. The actors and actresses aren’t diverse, and we should definitely demand. … These are the reasons why they aren’t diverse. skin color speaking. It is because there’s almost no Thai actresses with dark skin, Like literally. Lesbian stereotypes speaking, The first Thai Gl ever is a story of a Tom boy lesbian and Dee(a femme who like masc) because that was how people in Thailand culture see lesbian at that time(only masc and femme are tgt). but after that there are only femmes as a main lovers. They’re some side characters that are masc or butch but not much. People just tend to love femmes loving femmes. -It is only the beginning of Thai Gl film it is ok that there’s little diversity because they need to portray popular stuff in the market, (what audience like the most first) to start business,then explore later. So yeah let’s wait for a bit.
Ngl. I’m tired of realistic storylines on tv. Thats one of the reasons I like GLs. Because yes, they are crazy- but it’s a storyline, fantasy. Not reality. We are too tied up with trying to watch reality on tv.
As a lesbian who've watched almost all the GLs there is up to date, I'd say that Pluto (GMMTV) has been the story that has stucked to me so far because it showed that it doesn't take a highly-sensual approach for it to be a good plot. There are other GLs that have been so heavy on those kind of scenes that I almost felt like they objectify wlw relationships. You know a show/story is good when the main talk after an episode is the storyline.
Having listened to all your arguments, I see your point about Gap, Blank, and Affair having problematic tropes. However, Warrior Nun and First Kill also feature such tropes, yet supporting them is considered acceptable for some reason. OITNB is super toxic, but guess what? A lot of people adore it - that's just how human nature works. I’d also say that while I don’t like Blank (the age gap bothers me too - though they improved it compared to the novel; in the book, they are 18-19 and 36-37, whereas in the series, it’s 21-22 and 36-37), it does have its strong points. For example, both women have toxic family members, but they help each other work through these issues and provide mutual support. The series also portrays family dynamics in a way that highlights how conservative Thai society still is while showing that change is possible. So, my point is that these aren’t the best pieces of media, but they have both pros and cons. It’s unfortunate that you couldn’t see the positive aspects because of the negative ones. Regarding the quality of Thai GLs: Gap and Blank were produced by small studios (Idol Factory didn’t invest big money in Gap because it was one of the first GL series in Thailand, and they weren’t sure it would be successful at all). Many Thai GL series don’t have significant budgets behind them. The Secret of Us was the first GL series produced by a major TV channel, which is why its production quality is much higher. However, the tropes and scenarios it uses aren’t examples of bad LGBT representation - they’re simply how Thai dramas are typically made. If you watch hetero Thai dramas, you’ll see the same patterns. As for the plot, remember that these are soap operas. What kind of great plot can you expect from a soap opera? An excellent plot isn’t exactly a defining feature of the genre 😃 I would say that Gap The Series was released at the beginning of 2023, and by the end of 2024, we now have more than 15 different Thai GL series. The quality is steadily improving because those initial "trash" projects caught the attention of audiences (not just within the LGBT community) as well as investors and media companies. New projects like The Loyal Pin, Pluto and Petrichor are much better, and the recently announced projects from various companies are more diverse and look very promising. I would say for just TWO YEARS it's a huge improvement. It seems that people are indeed criticizing those initial projects and their negative aspects, and production companies and creatives are listening and striving to improve. So, I don’t understand why you think people don’t realize that we need and want better. So, we support them at the start so they could do better. Meanwhile, Western media has recently provided almost no representation at all 🤷♀ Yes, Arcane was great, but that's about it )))
Correct. I think it's actually because of certain author companies are following. Her name is ChaoPlanoy and she's lesbian but she has been known for writing problematic stuffs. She wrote Gap, Affair, Blank, Mate, Apple etc. She was already hated by Thai sapphics before Gap came out but fortunately, interfans are starting to notice it and more companies are now defecting away from ChaoPlanoy. Honestly, GL is still new and young so it's not really perfect at this moment. There has been some improvements in recent times. We are definitely going towards positive changes. It happened to BLs as well but they took much longer time to make changes. GL went through much quicker changes in a drastic way and I think we are good. It's because more people are opening up about their criticisms and companies are now more careful than before. GLs i found to be much healthier; - Loyal Pin (I'd say it has the healthiest couple out of other series. It may has excessive sexual content but completely consensual and good communication. Book was better but series is still enoyable regardless of problematic aspects added by the company which was out of character) - Pluto (wrote by ChaoPlanoy but GMMTV changed a lot to make it much less toxic) - Petrichor (Very much more focused on crime thriller but still good sapphic representation) -2.3.5 (highschool GL by GMMTV)
Thank you for that! Is it possible for you to summarize the main differences (problematic aspects) added by the film company? I never read the book and I’m very curious.
@@morbidgirl6808 Yea, I can see how Love Senior was toxic. However, if you caught the recent Love Senior Special, that storyline was really cute and not problematic. Messages of love, healing, and communication were center. If you haven’t yet, check it out. :)
@@nilayyucedag2874 Spoilers: 1. Anin never said, "i'm bored of it' in the book. It was a line added by someone in the production team and she didn't understand the character of Anin very well. 2. Anin never threw away a ring in the book. She wore it until the end. She got 2 rings by the end. One given by Pin on left hand and another one on right hand also given by Pin. 3. Anin may do pranks or tease in the book but she never played a part in kidnap prank. In the series, she did although it wasn't her idea (it was her dad's and he also didn't do prank in the book). 4. Anin never made Pin jealous in the book. She's just generally nice to everyone in the book which makes them fall in love. 5. Pin never punished Anin out of jealousy in the book although she was more jealous than Pin from the series. She only said that she would punish her as a joke in the book (she's usually sarcastic). She herself admitted that Anin's respect and kindness for everyone was one of qualities she likes the most. 6. Pin didn't punish herself and right away give up after knowing Kuea has another woman in the book but she had that mindset in the series which kinda ruined her character. She did have self-respect in the book despite being a coward. 7. Pin never criticized Anin for her childish side in the book (it was one of big reasons why she loved Anin). 8. Khun Aon didn't force herself on Anin in the book. She just confessed to her then she broke down and cried when Anin rejected her. Khun Aon didn't blackmail Anin in the book. She respected Anin a lot. 9. Princess Padmika wasn't that cruel in the book. In fact, she never knew Kuea had another woman until wedding day. Her backstory about her love was much more detailed. She wore ring Princess Im has given to her. She also wrote a letter confessing her love to Padmika and asked her to wear a ring if she felt the same after her death. She gave Lotus Palace to her and also gave her status as a royal member.
I agree affair, Blank and Gap are rather toxic. Try watching Pluto and 23.5 by GMMTv, they are less toxic. Especially 23.5, It’s teen flick showing teens acceptance of their love for each other, no sex scene at all. For Pluto, you need to watch until the last episode to get the full picture of the plot and understand why certain things that didn’t make sense in the beginning happen. Otherwise, you may also stop watching when it didn’t make sense for May to readily take back an ex that left her when she turned blind. I hope GMMTV will not keep adding more sex scenes in the future productions just to do fan servicing for engagement. Supporting the better projects also sends out the message for that standards need to be better.
Pluto also takes on the issues of ableism. [Oops, heroine has to get her sight back for the happy ending ...]. Give Pluto more of a chance. There's more plot there
This video is necessary people should watch and listening very well. although i really liked Blank Affair and TSOU i have to agree. But for me TSOU were the least problematic well it not good if your ex come to yoir lofe trying to get you back when you say you wont her back and alsoshe sleeps with you when you drunk that were red flags for me... and the fact that Earn broke up with Fahlada without talking anu conversation...were awful. About Gad this better not sau what i think because their fans cant accept other people opinion. Blank I think the age gap is not a problem but the actress looks and character looked like 16 and that&s remember me the movie Loving Annabelle...not my favorite. Affair...well good kisses but we all saw. Anyway this is what we get when they want money and we don't have nothing and accept anything.
@@lauretta90100I hope that you can give it another go. Episode 9-10 onwards will start giving the perspective of the other characters, it will then make sense. Also, Ai-oon only did that at the request of her twin to help breakup with May and subsequently she felt stuck and didn’t know how to tell May the truth, although she tried to many times.
Uhmm about Pluto, I wouldn’t even call it a sex scene-'love scene' is a much better term for it. Those scenes are beautiful and serene. Idk, I might be biased. Hahahaha
Love all the points brought up in this episode - we deserve so much more and I appreciate the call out/critique, which I think are important for claiming/reclaiming our stories and being in control of our narratives.
I recommend The Loyal Pin - different author, different period - great storytelling, great production value - well paced -on the slow side. Color grading is so good.
As a GL fan I agree with everything you said. It’s crazy that the most popular GLs are the most toxic ones! I don’t know what that says about our community 😬 But there are lots of non-toxic Thai GLs like 23.5, Reverse 4 You and The Loyal Pin. I hear Pluto is also not toxic but I haven’t seen it. Affair, Blank and GAP are the toxic trifecta written by the same problematic author many GL fans have been calling out for years. She has weird pdf fileic and borderline incestuous themes. If you think the series are bad, the books are even worse! It’s good to keep calling these toxic themes out and demanding good stories for the wlws. Keep it up 🔥
@@addy8078 the loyal pin community is non toxic is an understatement. I have seen few toxic Freen Becky fan looking down on other Gl series storyline. I totally agree, Chaoplanoy’s novels are the worst, problematic and toxic af.
The screenplay of Pluto is so much better than Chaoploy’s book. The characters are deeper and more likable, their love story more plausible, and it conveys important societal themes. Whoever adapted the book should write some original screenplays so we get better shows.
A lot of my friends are watching Thai GL and are recommending it to me, but haven’t had time to watch until recently and then saw you guys’ take on it which makes me feel that I shouldn’t watch any of it until better stuff comes out. From the few clips and trailers I’ve seen, Thai GL seems like they follow traditional soap opera, even with the comparison to Korean drama, maybe it’s more the “makjang” genre which draws a certain viewership. Regarding the topic of tackling more real issues and moving away from romance, I recall being at a director talk after a viewing of a Filipino coming-of-age GL film, “Baka Bukas” and one thing left an impression, the director mentioned wanting to make queer films that are aspirational - that struck me, and is something I remember till today. I think SEA GL content is still at infancy and before we get to the better stuff, we must suffer through its growing pains, it’s like that quote, “Well, I must endure the presence of a few caterpillars if I wish to become acquainted with the butterflies”
90% of the thai GLs mentioned were written by the same author where they adapted the novels into series which i think is a huge problem right there. 100% agree with everything, as a consumer of thai gl and bls, you said what i needed to say because i dont want to get problems irl if i say these things. also, the fact that tsou is an older novel which i gave the benefit of the doubt where emotional abuse is there but the thing is they are adapting an old novel into current day tv show, they have some liberties to change it but maybe they want it to be true to the novel for ppl who read it? and when ppl say its thai culture or asian or sea culture, id be doubting myself, felt a lil gaslit as a singaporean. i feel like the only thing that makes me watch these gls are the love teams/ships irl that are entertaining as individuals interacting with each other. from what i've seen online, i still kinda feel obligated to support it because ive been waiting for thai gl for yearssss and even in thailand its still quite niche due to it being a growing industry, literally exploded in 2023. and there's more openly queer actors in GLs as the main, as you mentioned faye, then orm in tsou, GraceOaey in Mate the series(this series same f*cking author as GAP, Affair. Blank, Pluto), engfa in petrichor and a few in My Marvellous Dream Is You. also, i think thai gls are leaning into telenovela/soap opera type from what ive seen in the recent ones. even these 2 years, thai bls are having more "being gay" is the secondary part and not the main plot type of story which you can see it took so damn long for them to reach this point but i feel like thai gls could literally just take what was alr criticised in bls to improve but i guess since they constantly use novels to adapt it into gls similar to bls, the novels arent catching up yet. yes, thai and sea ppl are not dumb, look at the success of How To Make Millions Before Grandma Dies, there's a reason why this movie did well and why its going to be nominated in the oscars (currently shortlisted). i feel like the only opinion i have that is different is straight presenting actors, because we still have to understand that to work in the entertainment industry long, they have to be straight-passing to get more and diff roles as actors. there are probs a lot more queer ppl in gls that are not open with their sexual orientation so we shouldnt make assumptions. but def the plots for series should have different looking queer ppl maybe thru open casting rather than within the production house for more different visual representation.
I get what you're saying, but I think your criticisms are unfair considering they're based on watching only 4 of the more than 20+ Thai GL series out there. Also what series, worldwide, doesn't show stories and people who are dysfunctional, toxic and flawed? They all do because they're based on human beings who are messy, flawed and chaotic. The tropes in many GL series aren't new (every series straight or LGBTQ has the same tropes) and people watch them because they can relate to them in some way. As well, many of these stories deal with complex family and societal issues that need to be brought out into the open and discussed. When you say you don't think straight people would enjoy these series and find them unrelatable or toxic, I disagree. For one, I know there are actually a lot of straight GL and BL fans out there who love these series (I read their comments and praise all the time on social media). And I think when some straight folks watch them for the first time they might actually think their lives are not so different from LGBTQ folks. And that's the point. These are human stories about people who aren't perfect, who have drama and trauma and make bad decisions sometimes. But what I love about most of these series is that the characters make it through their hardships and experience much needed personal growth by the end of the series. And yes, most GL series have happy endings, which may not be realistic, but that's the point of many TV shows. They're meant to be forms of entertainment and escapism, and if we're lucky, educational. I for one don't want to watch entirely realistic shows and movies all the time. Living real life is enough for me. I want fantasy, drama and whatever else these series provide to briefly escape real life. Lastly, I just want to say that I've watched almost every GL series released (from many countries, not just Thailand) and while not every one is a masterpiece (some truly are), I love and support them all because our community has needed series and representation like this for a long time. We've never had so many shows to choose from and released in such a short time. I'm very grateful for the trailblazers in the GL industry and I think in the years to come, we're only going to be getting better and better content and representation, as long as we keep supporting the efforts of these story tellers, production companies and talented actors.
We are not saying that individuals with trauma and the mess that comes with it SHOULD BE REMOVED. We are saying that there can be a lot more depth to these series. Example, as mentioned in the video, the trauma that the character experienced in Affairs was not touched on AT ALL. Yes, there can be trauma, there are ways to portray how trauma shows up in certain situations. Unfortunately these are not touched on in a lot of these shows. On top of that, the queer experiences of south east asians are not highlighted in any of the series that we have watched. As mentioned, we have so many different cultures and beliefs here in SEA, it would be great for the series to portray how these cultures and beliefs affect the queer experience. In terms of a "realistic experience" as we have mentioned yet again, you can have various genres of films and series, all the way from fantasy to romcom to even shows that showcase the actual struggles of the queer experience in SEA. What we have noticed is, the same storyline/trope is constantly getting recycled. It's fine that people enjoy the current Thai GLs, what we're looking for is diversity, more representation, and stories being portrayed in a tasteful manner. Not cheap tactics to string audiences along. Though it's understandable the shows need to do these things to gain traction. It seems that this has been the theme throughout. No harm in some constructive criticism from and for our own community. At the end of the day all of us just want more representation and the current Thai GLs, according to some, are satisfactory and according to others, are not satisfactory.
@@TheOatmilkLesbiansI understand what you're saying and I agree with you about there being a lack of diversity in many of these series. For instance, most of the main characters are fair-skinned and don't represent the majority of the population in Thailand or other SEA countries. They definitely need to include more people with different shades of skin. It's a problem everywhere, honestly. There are also many characters who are wealthy and that's also not representative of the majority of any population. I'd love to see more stories that feature characters from smaller towns or rural areas rather than the big city, stories about every day people with different ways of life, which we don't often see. I also agree with you about the characters from Affair and that they didn't really address the deep traumas both characters experienced. I'd love to see more scenes about proper healing and even therapy, which is rarely ever brought up in most of these series. So many of these dysfunctional characters really need therapy or some other healthy way to get through their past traumas. I think, as you do, that many of these stories could be better and we should ask for more, and many people have (and some studios are listening). We're just in the first years of the GL industry and already I've seen much improvement in different areas, so I believe as time goes by that they will continue to release higher quality content with better representation.
Ok Im speaking from a black lesbian standpoint. I totally get what the ladies are discussing and I think its totally valid. But I also want us as a lesbian community to understand that we are not above having trash tv. I think the problem is we dont have enough balance between the good and the bad especially when your a lesbian of color. We are so starved of content. I love that these ladies are speaking out though. Its good to hear from the real Asian lgbt community about the content that is displaying their specific lgbt culture/community. Side note: I absolutely loved Blank and 23.5 😅
I think this is an important conversation, especially now that GLs outside of the West are rising/been on a rise. But we should def raise the standard when it comes to GL narratives. I know screenplays adapt books and other media, so there is def room for these changes or even talks about original works.
First of all, There was no pedophilia in any of these shows you named. Look up the definition of pedophilia. Next thing is all these shows are based off of books, which usually take good writing talent to convert into something that would be good quality TV. They hired the cheapest writers for the money they had. The budgets for these shows are based off the Fandom. The more popular the shows and actors are, the more advertisers are willing to invest in the next project. It's basically a circle. You can't produce good quality shows unless you have money. You can't get money without advertisers and people watching your shows. 90% know that the shows are not the best, but every year they get a little bit better, because people are watching them, which generates more investors and advertisers. I guess you forgot when you couldn't get a BL or GL show on TV.? Im not happy with the bad storylines, bad sets and bad acting of some of the shows. But I watch anyways because I'm smart enough to know its an investment into the future of what will come later. You bad idea of not watching is just telling the producers and investors, to stop making LGBTQ shows because no one is interested. Then we're left to no shows being produced anymore. And lastly you basically just rave and screamed for 45 minutes of all the things you hate, but I barely heard you give any positive feedback on what they were doing good, with their attempts ar making the LGBTQ community more normal in people's everyday life. I've talked to many people that use to be anti-gay and these shows have made them become more accepting that it doesn't matter who you love or marry.
There is pedophilia in Blank. The younger is portrayed as a kid, even if she’s not a minor. Added to the maternal way the older treats her. It’s wrong and disturbing.
Yes, we are definitely in agreement with continuously watching and supporting as future investment and that is exactly what we have been doing thusfar. We also have watched a lot of local short films here in Malaysia with extremely TERRIBLE budget (you can tell from their production quality and the very very very small production crew). These small budget short films are able to create amazing short films. Approaching this from that perspective, we really believe us SEAs can do so much better with whatever budget that these Thai GLs had. Sure, some people do enjoy these films, to each their own. We're not saying "stop making films" we're saying, "make better films, make films that highlight how our multilayered asian cultures intertwine with the queer experience" "Have more representation with actors and actresses". THAT is what we're saying.
I agree and disagree. First all thank you for putting awareness out there in regard to gl series. Thai gl in particular has been only been out there for 2-3 years. It’s relatively new, if anything it’s like a newborn. There will be flaws mistakes and lots of problems. I’ve seen a few handful of Thai gls, some I hate some I like. But as an asian lesbian I’m glad there is some sort of representation for us. Not all series are masterpieces and most actually suck but are a few good ones though. Try checking out The Loyal Pin and Pluto. These series are not perfect by any means and the characters in the series are not perfect by any means. But that’s the whole point. These characters are flawed and messy. We won’t have a story to unfold if all the characters were perfect and knew exactly what they wanted from the beginning and had no issues or dramas. The point is characters evolution and growth and how relatable are they. Human/people are messy and flawed. How do we tackle challenges how do they face life tough situations. I think that’s what matters. With that said, Thai gl will continue to evolve and get better. We will always get toxic characters that’s not a question. It matters of how good the series evolve and unfold and tell a story. I will continue to watch Thai gl series and will continue to love some and hate some. We are all entitled to our opinion I truly respect yours. Once again thanks for bringing light to this matter.
I hear what you’re both saying, I personally can see how the story lines aren’t typically healthy representations. The thai gl content will probably evolve but at present it’s run like a business, to gain as much revenue as possible from the gl couples and less about the quality of the storyline.
Interesting this actually made me think a bit differently about these shows... I personally like them, even though there are a lot of tropes I don't support in real life I think sometimes in film it's ok to have them, especially when just starting out. I really just ignore those parts and try to find the good in whatever I'm watching, but I think your criticism is fair. Definitely agree that there should be more diverse representation, more different types of queer story lines I would love to see it. Shows I would suggest you try watching (although most of them are not on TH-cam): - Petrichor (more of a police, detective, murder drama - although the romance is moving rather fast for me) : It somewhat touches on the police corruption in Thailand, there's murder cases being solved and the relationship isn't super toxic as far as I can tell, there are also some queer friends and coworkers in the show. - Reverse 4 you (superpowers show): The main character has a superpower to manipulate time - which is something we don't see much in gl. Overall pretty good although there is a scene were the leads have s3x and one of them is basically blackout drunk - did not love that. I like that it focuses a lot on the bond between biological sisters, friendship and family in general. It's cute if it wasn't for that one scene. Still recommend watching. - Ayaka Is in Love with Hiroko (Japanese) - this one also has a large age gap (10 years or so I think) and workplace romance but I feel like it was better executed although the whole plotline is super cringy. It also touches a bit on the whole being gay in a work environment topic and stuff like that. There is also a gay bar there and I really liked that. - 23.5 : There are many different queer characters, there is also queer autistic representation, overall cute story (high-school) - but there is some lying and hiding the truth form one of the lead characters and I didn't like that story point. - Pluto: There is some disability representation as one of the leads is blind. I really liked that part of the story. Too much lying though (it's about twins, one gets into a coma and the other one is pretending to be her sister - I don't want to spoil too much but there is a lot going on). - The Loyal Pin (period drama) : this one still has the homophobia trope but I feel like it makes more sense because it's set in like the 50s or something like that and also royalty so that is a bit different... There are a lot of sm3x scenes though and it's mostly just a story of two women getting together. I will say their relationship is pretty solid although maybe borderline codependent. Definitely need more diversity though!!!!!! I feel like that is the main thing we're missing. Slowly we are getting different storylines but the diversity is still not there. I mean most of the actors are the same in the upcoming shows, which is good for the ships but bad for the representation. I will say even in non queer media those are common issues so I wouldn't put it all on gl-s...
Loyal Pin had government funding and so - imo - higher production quality. I also found loyal Pin to do a really beautiful job of working in the Thai culture Lastly - as a 65 yr old white lesbian in the US who's been watching lesbian films forever, I've never seen such unselfconscious, pro lesbian scenes - including the soft pron which I thought mapped to the story arc and was beautifully shot
@@BobT4279 Because they made it realistic. Most royal families used to have cousin marriages in the past (and still do but not much) to keep their royal blood pure. And also, Anin and Pin are just very distant relatives. Her grandfather was a distant cousin of Pin's great grandfather so that technically makes Anin "aunt." If they weren't royal members, they wouldn't know they were related. Royal heritage is often well documented, that's why they know who their distant relatives/cousins are unlike the general population. I know it sounds eerie but it is supposed to present how sheltered are royal families.
@@morbidgirl6808 Which is fair, but most, if not all, of these shows, at least from Thailand, deal with toxic and/or controversial tropes. Not just those adapted from Chao Planoy books. The amount that she gets accused of such things compared to the other writers is unfair imo. Could shows be written without such things? Sure. She loves to cook, She loves to eat is one example of that, but it's also good to use them in stories so they can be discussed and examined.
@@BobT4279 I understand what you mean but the TLP author "Monmaw" had different intentions from ChaoPlanoy and explained the heritage very well. The book version was actually better than the series version (IDF added dumb things that don't make sense or feel out of character). The book was purely non toxic with no problematic tropes and lack of drama. This is one of few GLs where the book version was actually better. Even Monmaw is a well respected author in the Thai sapphic community and is the one of biggest influences on adaptation of non toxic stories at this moment. IDF ruined the TLP story a bit in an adaptation tbh. Still, the series is good at least but the company is at fault for being careless and making semi harmful damages to the reputation of the actually good author.
You’d be surprised how many straight people watch these shows! I always see people saying “I’m straight but I love this”, lots of straight BL enjoyers also watch GL. Looking at the most popular straight romance books Sarah J Maas, Colleen Hoover etc you can see straight people love toxic tropes too. It’s just human nature to seek out edgy content. It’s something you can explore in fiction but you wouldn’t actually want in real life. The issue is when these are the only lesbian stories that people hype up and talk about. And there’s no reflection of real lesbian love. It’s so hard to find that in Thai GL right now. But I’m glad it’s getting the funding it needs to establish itself as a genre. I think in the future better stories will come out.
Yeah. There was a poll 2 years ago on twitter and asking GL fans about their sexuality. The answer was that almost 45% fans were heterosexual women and 54% were queer women. Only 1% were men (both heterosexual and queer). That poll shocked me a lot. But again, this is Thai shows and most BL fans aren't just BL fans. They watch Thai shows generally (regardless of genre) so it's no surprise that they will consume GLs too. I think GL fans aren't that dumb and they are aware of issues. I remember many of them complaining about problematic stuffs. They know and are promoting new changes. I think Loyal Pin, Pluto, 23.5, Reverse4you and Petrichor saved the GL. They were really big improvements from previous GLs. And I hope it will continue in this way.
@ I was surprised too. I originally thought it was only queer women who watch GLs but if you interact with fans you’ll see a lot of straight women, with whole husbands, love GL! And there’s probably more straight fans now than 2 years ago too. I agree with you on those GLs saving the genre. Things are getting better and we’re stepping away from toxic narratives.
I think you are my new favorite people. I laughed out loud at all your cursing! While i fundamentally agree with everything you've said (inasmuch as i can a a white lesbian from the us), i also want to give a shout for let it develope. Mate took on Incest (well i thought) [even though discussing the abuse will not give rise to passionate lovemaking, but i'm willing to grant artistic licence]; love bully takes on transvesticm and Pluto takes on ableism and public accommodation. I also think anyone who cares about this industry HAS to look at the production companies. It's disgusting how they are making these women parade around flirting in public pretending these relationships are real. [Not unlike US Hollywood in the 50's... We had to grow out of it] I so enjoyed all of your handling of this stuff. As a 65 year old, i can't tell from here if being femme is somehow the new lesbian aesthetic [androgyny was our code word in the 70's & 80's.😂] Anyway i think if we can get some queer money into some of these productions, my hope is to see Thailand OWN GL!
Yes, as being (UK) of the same age as your good self I agree with you all the way. We fought tooth and nail in the 70s and 80s for the LGBT inclusion to get it on a healthy footing….the GLs have not reach this stage…yet. I found Gap and Blank quite shocking but there seems to be a slow progress in the right direction…give it time. I think PLUTO is kind of gently moving this process forward. I also have a major problem with this ‘shipping’ that is done by these film companies by shoving and parading these actresses on stage pretending to be in relationships with one another and creating a hysterical young public…giving these kids a totally wrong and unhealthy impression.
Absolutely dumb topic-as someone who has searched long and hard for lesbian content for years, the Thai GLs blow everything else out of the water AND the fact they are free on YT is a GIFT!! I hope they keep them up!
Thank you for saying this and demanding better representation. So far, Petrichor is the only show I've seen which actually has a good plot and a healthy sapphic relationship. I really hope it blows up and changes the narrative for Thai GL.
Loved Gap so kindly agree to disagree. Respect opinions though and have no problem with those who didn’t enjoy. My love for Thailand was born/ awakened as a result of Freen, specifically 🙏🏻
I liked Gap i think the contrast between Mon and Sam's personalities was funny...but I think there was too much drama and unecessary fights between them.
It's crazy that how people pertain thai GLs as problematic. Sure there are cases wherein, the production and writer itself did a poor adaptation of these books. There are series and works that purely for work, entertainment and to not be taken seriously. BLANK was viewed as grooming/pdo, but that is not the case at all. They've done a good job in all aspect, in terms of character development, storytelling and phasing. People look for representation, but only for SELECTIVE representation. When presented to you, you call it problematic. People learned the word grooming/pdo and ran with it screaming. please, pick a struggle.
Thank you for this. I was worried I was the only one feeling this cause there wasn’t even that good chemistry between the leads in Gap ppl are just so starved for any representation. Blank got better but I can’t get over the fact they REDUCED the age gap cause it used to be even bigger in the books 😳
@ No but for real 😂 are we not allowed to have controversial storylines just because we are gay? Are we only allowed to make healthy relationship series? We need to watch drama, and that can look very different. There are other healthy relationship GLs but they aren’t popular.
The Loyal Pin, Affair, Two of Us, Stupid Wife (Brazilian), 23.5, Mate the Series like??? They must first watch a bit more before they make such videos 🙄
@@diegoalcantaras5580 I know, but last video they complained that there is no non-white representation. Queue the list of shows we suggested with non-white lesbians. Now it’s another thing? 😭 How about we talk about what we enjoyed about the shows? What they did well? And what we are looking forward to from future shows (suggesting healthy storylines they want to see)?
@@diegoalcantaras5580 I never too but my friend who is a Pluto fan told me. Plus, Gl series that originated from Chaoplanoy’s novel are always problematic.
Zezeho is the author I like the most!! she speaks about gay rights and marriage and stuff and "Reverse 4 you" is the healthiest relationship I've seen. I did like Apple my love, despite some details, but yesh overall it's toxic aF, but it's a show! Girls Rules or something is upcoming and it seems it'll be a hot mess and I am up for it!!! I am an "older" lesbian so these aren't a role model thing for me, if they were, that'd be different.
Novels are even worse. In the shows we got tamed version. I agree with a lot of what you said, but also there is an issue that many like toxic relationships. Remember how popular L word was and it was toxic af.🤷♀️ I loved warrior nun and the plot. The relationship was more emotional and not sexual. The most we got was a kiss and still the love was clear from the start. I think that toxic sells and that is why there are many stories like that
I basically agree with everything you guys are saying. Thai dramas in general seem to be more about having a fantasy fulfilled rather than having a story to actually tell. So I don’t think these problematic tropes are exclusive to the gls. I don’t think that we are going to get a show that tells an organic queer story from the Thai gl industry as it stands now judging by the way these shows are produced. Most of them are written and produced extremely quick which I think plays in to why these shows are on a fanfic level of writing. It’s also a new industry that’s borrowing a lot from the bl industry which also has a lot of problems in of itself. All this being said I don’t think enjoying these show is necessarily a bad thing. As they stand now these shows are just candy that people watch mindlessly. I do think not engaging with them critically will only encourage the creators to make more of these fanfic level dramas. I think we should also look at the fact that making shows like this is what sells to the majority of people which is sad seeing as blank probably the most problematic show of all of the gls is also the most popular one out there. Visuals and production are enough for a lot of people to keep watching. It sucks because there are a lot of experiences that are left out of these gls. Even shows I liked like Pluto and Reverse 4 you had the chance to tell a story about the class struggles of growing up and being working class but instead focused on the romance part of the story. I do think if you want more plot driven stories I’d watch those two though. I don’t think having problematic topics discussed in these shows is bad but I think the way they are talked about and written is the issue here. These shows rarely if ever expect the people watching to be intelligent people who have morals themselves and see the emotional abuse for what it is. I think fans being too kind to the creators of these shows for that only makes it seem like they are okay with these gross storylines. On diversity this is also an issue in every country we rarely ever see women on screen that aren’t as white as a sheet of paper. As someone who grew up watching Mexican soaps it’s still a challenge to get anyone darker than paper to show up on screen. I do think that a lot of the girls who are acting in these gls are queer a few of them have come out before and a lot of the directors and writers are also queer. But the queer experience is absent in these shows regardless of the queer people working on them. These shows have no sense of queer community or anything to do with the queer experience. Nothing about Thai queer slang or culture which is insane because Thai queer culture is so massive. We get homophobic characters that suddenly become not homophobic. You can easily swap one of the female characters to a male character and it wouldn’t change the stories much. What we have in the gl industry is just slope and I think it’s probably always going to be that way because that’s how it’s designed to be. Maybe we’ll get lucky and get a good show one of these days. Anyways thanks for bringing up this conversation and I’m sorry for all of the hate you’re probably going to get.
I agree with so much of what you’ve said. I had a hard time getting through Gap because of the work harassment and emotional abuse. But…yes, we get so little that we tolerate toxic series. It took me several months to get through Blank because I disliked everything about it but Faye’s performance and the production. I see some level of toxicity in most of the series. For me, jealousy itself is toxic, but apparently many find possessiveness and jealousy flattering. First -- one of the reasons we are getting the toxic plots is because there are too few, good lesbian writers and so many of the shows we are seeing are screenplays from just two Thai lesbian writers whose characters are often dysfunctional. Second, as someone who is a few generations old, I can sadly say that there is actually a lot of toxicity in the community…mostly because of how we are treated by society. I get very concerned when I read the comments on TH-cam series that are either blatantly ignorant of the toxic behavior that they are witnessing or they forcefully defend it.
dont hate me but for me all thai gl and bl are not good. Bad story line and not special, boring. For BL i like chinese bromance more, even its only bromance, but they have a interesting story line and the characters have more deph (?) . I Hope it will be someday a GL series produce like the chinese Bromance series.I only want a nice and interesting story with two woman as a lead role. Sorry for my bad english
Talking about 'Complex Topics', i hope you guys can talk about the struggles of Queer/Gay Loneliness, isolation and high suicide rate because we only make up about 5-10% of the world population. Second, maybe like you guys also mentioned about Diverse experiences, everything you've learned so far about internalized homophobia in the community and individually, like whats you guy's opinion on how certain issues in the community has manifested itself. And lastly, what do you guys think of this 'Masc shortage' trend? I hear fems, specifically in my city (nyc) complain that there arent enough masc women to date.
Do the presenters know all of these GLs are based on books? The argument regarding TSOU is very weak. People in real life break up and react in similar ways but it does not constitute abuse. But if the point is that you both did not enjoy any of the series then it makes more sense if you have a basis of comparison. What is a “better” example? Please provide some good examples of romantic stories you both enjoyed.
Y'all should check out Petrichor The Series. It's a Thai GL but I honestly wouldn't group it with other GLs because the plot is really good despite there being sapphic relationships in the show.
They don't care about having good plots, acting, character development etc. They're the ONLY people in Asia willing to film these contents. Taiwan is gaining traction but they're more focused on BL. Since they are the only ones, queers don't have a choice but to watch them. Even if it's bad. In order for them to actually be good, we need them to have competitions. I have hope in Taiwan.
Important points, I would agree 100% if it wasn’t for that these series are truly an over exaggeration of drama for entertainment purposes, which pleases a lot of people including me. I couldn’t watch a lot of blank because of them pushing the “child” behave on one of the characters. And saying that if it was a man in that situation it always gonna be different. A man always holds more power in society and personal context. Is infinite different to be “pursued” by a man, being your boss, an older man or any of this situations, than a girl. They will never be in the same level to be just “replace for a man and tell me what you think”. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment no matter the gender but the power that a man holds in society has definitely a different standard.
I understand the want for better shows but how you are coming after an entire industry after only having watched 2 & a half amount of GL series is beyond me, but whatever. The main reason the fans are rolling their eyes on your complaints is because you're thrashing on series that are already out, done, completed. Like what do you expect the companies to do? Take them down and reshoot it? You keep saying "Asian media" "South East Asian media" but I need you to take a step back and remember that these are "Thai GL Series" which is a form of media that had just started coming out a few years ago with Gap taking the lead. In media terms it's basically an industry at it's INFANCY. Most GL fans are not blind to these red flags & problems, of course we all want better plots & healthier representation. But you're basically sitting there shaming on fans for liking these series, which I find ridiculous. I can't speak on other series but it irks me when you said "it's not like they don't have the capacity to do other things" because if you actually did research, they didn't, at least not for Gap. There were literally NO SPONSORS for the show. No one believed in Sapphic content. They basically had 6 fans show up in the beginning. It's a miracle the series was even made in the first place which then opened up the whole industry. Heck it even made it so that same sex marriage is legal in Thailand now. So unless If you guys could go ahead & sponsor them so they could afford better novels to adapt, of course fans would view your rants as unappreciative. Also, the industry IS improving. They Are doing better. Just reading the comments you can already see great recommendations. How are you making this video without watching those first? Why do you keep saying that the GL industry is staying stagnant? Just like every other form of media, there will always be shows that are just money makers, shows that will touch you, and some that are just straight up not your taste, and that's ok imo. Another thing is, how tf are the actresses being straight take away their contribution & performance in a GL series? From this point onwards, I'm just hearing bad takes after bad takes & opinions formed from very poor research. Tolong lah, lain kali research lah banyak skit sebelum nak komen 1 industry tu.
If you're open to it, we would highly recommend you stream or attend local Malaysian low/no budget films -- many of which are brilliantly made even compared to our more commercialized ones, unless you're very well-versed with them already. Plenty of small time filmmakers in Malaysia have been very thoughtful with how they direct and produce local films with no sponsors as well and it's very commendable. A lot of these independent producers and directors are also not tied to any existing entertainment agency like Idol Factory for many of these series. Many of them are entirely bootstrapped. Unsure if you are someone who works in production, but if so, would you care to share if budget limits good writing this much? Also nobody is shaming any fans for liking these series, and neither are we going to stop supporting them either as we have already mentioned many times. The only reason why GL will continue to improve is because of continuous feedback which we are providing and because we actually believe in how much potential they have.
@@TheOatmilkLesbians It's also important to acknowledge that good writing is a matter of personal taste and can be influenced by various factors, including cultural context, personal experiences, and individual perspectives. Meaning that "good" writing is subjective. And I don't know, I hope you take the current feedback you are receiving in a good way. Right now, Thai is winning. And maybe tomorrow Malaysia. Who knows?
Imma just say this…… thoughts are valid on one’s self. To express and make such an opinionated video… I mean come on… This is slander. And not nice. Period.
You know the answer, you said it yourself, not-the-best representation is better than no representation. I was in agreement with most of what you had to say. Also, straight people have these types of movies. I found nothing to criticize about "All About Us." Few people can produce cinematic major films. They're all limited in cost productions. Orm is best actor of them all.
I completely agree with this opinion honestly. I remember watching gap when it first came out and being very weirded out by all the scene between mon and sam as kids as well as the work place power imbalance. I have watched the other ones you mentioned and I really dislike blank it’s very gross to me the way she acts like a kid. I personally really liked affair up until episode 7 and 8 and now looking back there is a lot of problematic topics in it too. Though I agree with all the things you said here I will says there are certain gls that I absolutely love that being 23.5, Apple my Love and Reverse 4 You. I personally think that those 3 series have great plots that are not as problematic and I hope we don’t have any more adaptions by Chao Planoy (btw apple is one of hers but I think it’s her least problematic one) also I agree we shouldn’t be afraid to voice these opinions and strive for better representation.
I started watching Thai GL series in 2023. Some were ok and some I found problematic. It's not a great service but they are free on YT. I really thought the Thais were white because all the actresses are white. I thought the contact lenses for the eyes was weird but otherwise I thought the Thais were white. When I was in Thailand last year, I was shocked. There are hardly any light-coloured Thais. The queer community is very diverse and it's a shame that it's not portrayed that way in series. But I have to defend the Thais in one respect. All over the world, you only see the most beautiful ones on TV and you think everyone looks like that. In the West, people have started to be diverse. But everywhere else is unfortunately not the case. Watch Indian films. They're all white but in reality 80% are dark and I think that's a shame.
lots of their fans are actually toxic. they need to grow up, accept fanservice as it is. Stop being delutional, those actors need fans to make money thus the fanservice. They are not actually queer. Just be happy & enjoy the fanservice but don't think it is real for one sec.
some of the thai gls made by chaoplanoy is very toxic, but its looked at as normal😭 but then again every single gl series be having the same problems, its either the grandmas, or moms, or sisters basically family and the separation scenes are so emotional 😭😭
Thailand is leading when it comes to GL series/movies. All those series that you mentioned, have lots of fans throughout Asia and other continents. All those actors fly to other countries to sold out fan meets. Have you ladies ever thought about writing your own GL script? You definitely should think about it
Also some character always gets hit by a car or in a car accident,even the gl Pluto,a guy gets ran over by a car and Uranus 2324 or whatever was shit,seems after YES OR NO 1&2 gl went all about sex/kissing scenes...so many yuri manga that have great storylines but not chosen to be live action for example Opium and Pulse,storylines like those.
I don't like to describe works or fiction as being problematic or toxic unless it's actively endorsing some very terrible things. I think you have to let drama be drama, and the things that make drama interesting and fun are the problematic or toxic elements. The point of drama is to entertain not to show how you should live you life. In fact, pretty much every show that's on a major Thai network has a disclaimer to that effect. It's fine if it's not for you.
Ngl, every novel by Ch*o pla*oy is super toxic and have unhealthy type of relationship. Wondering why companies keep using that specific author works as a series :')
I agree with you all about Blank series I find that those two at the end will not March! Affier was not so bad! For Gap better the loyal pin!and the secret of us was very good need more interesting but still very good
all of these series are rearrange from novel, so the plot is quite simple and weird loll , somemore all of them are from small production house, so the quality is mehh.. for blank series, i think you need watch until season 2 haaha, season 1 indeed is annoying. The mature actor played quite well tho and having the struggle for their age gap. for TSOU, the production is from TV station so the quality indeed is much more better lahh haha.
Well, majority of the popular series are "just for entertainment" and this applicable globally and not just for sapphic content. People are watching or consuming series to get a break from their sucks life. Their intention of watching is just different from you girls. They don't represent or even part of the community with the right awareness to say for the sapphic. So, if you want a well produced series, you need to dig in a bit deeper. Anyway, try The Loyal Pin. It's really well produced. And the Petrichor the series.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Everything you say. Re: Blank. It's worse than you know. She started school 3 years late and was held back a couple of years (in the series she's 20 yo). Having taught developmentally disabled adults, she is mildly developmentally disabled. The older woman is a well educated Mom Luang (member of the royal family). The story is bonkers on all levels.
I also don't like Pluto which is written by Planoy too. But I agree that some of the Thai's GL are toxic and fans are tiring. I distanced from watching most of the Thai's GL, including Pluto. But why you lot use sapphic and not lesbian it's odd to me.
о, да ладно. Во-первых, Анын было как минимум 20 лет, так что ни о каком груминге не может идти речи. Во-вторых, в течение всего сериала Нын сомневается в правильности этих отношений и долго отказывает младшей девушке. Большую разницу в возрасте между мужчиной и женщиной и парой, где одна женщина старше, нельзя сравнивать. У нас с мужчинами слишком разная социализация
I don't like Gap and Blank. But i prefer 23.5 and Apple My Love. It is sooo heartwarming and the characters are showing green flags that show us a standard of relationship that we should settle for
Hi, as a Thai fan. I agree to most of this but I would like to add some details.
Chaoplanoy’s stories are problematic af for example Blank the series
The original novel is literally illegal because Aneung is 18,
in the novel. but for series they changed her age to 20 because the drama about her being a minor. As a series,the age gap isn’t a wrong thing and saying pedo isn’t quite accurate. 20yo is already considered young adult. But, I would agree if you criticize the novel version on this point tho.
- The secret of us
I don’t know about the original novel. But saying that emotional abuse makes this film toxic or problematic is confusing. it is normal that the emotional abuse is in the plot. in real life some people deal with that. They are not promoting. it’s just for the conflict. The film is just showing that this behavior is bad. then, in the end the characters fixed the problem and live together peacefully.
-Saying all of them are straight is not right. Engfah, Faye, Milk, Namtan, Orm, Ciize and Yinganada are all sapphic. So, watching Gl is still supporting lgbtq people. plus normalizing gl in a culture is also a form of support.
-Yes. The actors and actresses aren’t diverse, and we should definitely demand.
…
These are the reasons why they aren’t diverse.
skin color speaking. It is because there’s almost no Thai actresses with dark skin, Like literally.
Lesbian stereotypes speaking, The first Thai Gl ever is a story of a Tom boy lesbian and Dee(a femme who like masc) because that was how people in Thailand culture see lesbian at that time(only masc and femme are tgt). but after that there are only femmes as a main lovers. They’re some side characters that are masc or butch but not much. People just tend to love femmes loving femmes.
-It is only the beginning of Thai Gl film it is ok that there’s little diversity because they need to portray popular stuff in the market, (what audience like the most first) to start business,then explore later. So yeah let’s wait for a bit.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Ngl. I’m tired of realistic storylines on tv. Thats one of the reasons I like GLs. Because yes, they are crazy- but it’s a storyline, fantasy. Not reality. We are too tied up with trying to watch reality on tv.
Ooo I love your take on this and I agree.
Yep, I agree. It's just entertainment.
As a lesbian who've watched almost all the GLs there is up to date, I'd say that Pluto (GMMTV) has been the story that has stucked to me so far because it showed that it doesn't take a highly-sensual approach for it to be a good plot. There are other GLs that have been so heavy on those kind of scenes that I almost felt like they objectify wlw relationships. You know a show/story is good when the main talk after an episode is the storyline.
Having listened to all your arguments, I see your point about Gap, Blank, and Affair having problematic tropes. However, Warrior Nun and First Kill also feature such tropes, yet supporting them is considered acceptable for some reason. OITNB is super toxic, but guess what? A lot of people adore it - that's just how human nature works.
I’d also say that while I don’t like Blank (the age gap bothers me too - though they improved it compared to the novel; in the book, they are 18-19 and 36-37, whereas in the series, it’s 21-22 and 36-37), it does have its strong points. For example, both women have toxic family members, but they help each other work through these issues and provide mutual support. The series also portrays family dynamics in a way that highlights how conservative Thai society still is while showing that change is possible.
So, my point is that these aren’t the best pieces of media, but they have both pros and cons. It’s unfortunate that you couldn’t see the positive aspects because of the negative ones.
Regarding the quality of Thai GLs: Gap and Blank were produced by small studios (Idol Factory didn’t invest big money in Gap because it was one of the first GL series in Thailand, and they weren’t sure it would be successful at all). Many Thai GL series don’t have significant budgets behind them.
The Secret of Us was the first GL series produced by a major TV channel, which is why its production quality is much higher. However, the tropes and scenarios it uses aren’t examples of bad LGBT representation - they’re simply how Thai dramas are typically made. If you watch hetero Thai dramas, you’ll see the same patterns.
As for the plot, remember that these are soap operas. What kind of great plot can you expect from a soap opera? An excellent plot isn’t exactly a defining feature of the genre 😃
I would say that Gap The Series was released at the beginning of 2023, and by the end of 2024, we now have more than 15 different Thai GL series. The quality is steadily improving because those initial "trash" projects caught the attention of audiences (not just within the LGBT community) as well as investors and media companies. New projects like The Loyal Pin, Pluto and Petrichor are much better, and the recently announced projects from various companies are more diverse and look very promising. I would say for just TWO YEARS it's a huge improvement.
It seems that people are indeed criticizing those initial projects and their negative aspects, and production companies and creatives are listening and striving to improve. So, I don’t understand why you think people don’t realize that we need and want better.
So, we support them at the start so they could do better.
Meanwhile, Western media has recently provided almost no representation at all 🤷♀
Yes, Arcane was great, but that's about it )))
Correct. I think it's actually because of certain author companies are following. Her name is ChaoPlanoy and she's lesbian but she has been known for writing problematic stuffs. She wrote Gap, Affair, Blank, Mate, Apple etc. She was already hated by Thai sapphics before Gap came out but fortunately, interfans are starting to notice it and more companies are now defecting away from ChaoPlanoy.
Honestly, GL is still new and young so it's not really perfect at this moment. There has been some improvements in recent times. We are definitely going towards positive changes. It happened to BLs as well but they took much longer time to make changes. GL went through much quicker changes in a drastic way and I think we are good. It's because more people are opening up about their criticisms and companies are now more careful than before.
GLs i found to be much healthier;
- Loyal Pin (I'd say it has the healthiest couple out of other series. It may has excessive sexual content but completely consensual and good communication. Book was better but series is still enoyable regardless of problematic aspects added by the company which was out of character)
- Pluto (wrote by ChaoPlanoy but GMMTV changed a lot to make it much less toxic)
- Petrichor (Very much more focused on crime thriller but still good sapphic representation)
-2.3.5 (highschool GL by GMMTV)
Reverse 4 Me and Love Senior were both really good too and not toxic
@@Jaelynne17 Forgot about Reverse 4 Me. It was really solid. Love Senior was toxic. I'm sorry but I feel bad for main leads. They deserved better.
Thank you for that! Is it possible for you to summarize the main differences (problematic aspects) added by the film company? I never read the book and I’m very curious.
@@morbidgirl6808 Yea, I can see how Love Senior was toxic. However, if you caught the recent Love Senior Special, that storyline was really cute and not problematic. Messages of love, healing, and communication were center. If you haven’t yet, check it out. :)
@@nilayyucedag2874
Spoilers:
1. Anin never said, "i'm bored of it' in the book. It was a line added by someone in the production team and she didn't understand the character of Anin very well.
2. Anin never threw away a ring in the book. She wore it until the end. She got 2 rings by the end. One given by Pin on left hand and another one on right hand also given by Pin.
3. Anin may do pranks or tease in the book but she never played a part in kidnap prank. In the series, she did although it wasn't her idea (it was her dad's and he also didn't do prank in the book).
4. Anin never made Pin jealous in the book. She's just generally nice to everyone in the book which makes them fall in love.
5. Pin never punished Anin out of jealousy in the book although she was more jealous than Pin from the series. She only said that she would punish her as a joke in the book (she's usually sarcastic). She herself admitted that Anin's respect and kindness for everyone was one of qualities she likes the most.
6. Pin didn't punish herself and right away give up after knowing Kuea has another woman in the book but she had that mindset in the series which kinda ruined her character. She did have self-respect in the book despite being a coward.
7. Pin never criticized Anin for her childish side in the book (it was one of big reasons why she loved Anin).
8. Khun Aon didn't force herself on Anin in the book. She just confessed to her then she broke down and cried when Anin rejected her. Khun Aon didn't blackmail Anin in the book. She respected Anin a lot.
9. Princess Padmika wasn't that cruel in the book. In fact, she never knew Kuea had another woman until wedding day. Her backstory about her love was much more detailed. She wore ring Princess Im has given to her. She also wrote a letter confessing her love to Padmika and asked her to wear a ring if she felt the same after her death. She gave Lotus Palace to her and also gave her status as a royal member.
I agree affair, Blank and Gap are rather toxic. Try watching Pluto and 23.5 by GMMTv, they are less toxic. Especially 23.5, It’s teen flick showing teens acceptance of their love for each other, no sex scene at all. For Pluto, you need to watch until the last episode to get the full picture of the plot and understand why certain things that didn’t make sense in the beginning happen. Otherwise, you may also stop watching when it didn’t make sense for May to readily take back an ex that left her when she turned blind.
I hope GMMTV will not keep adding more sex scenes in the future productions just to do fan servicing for engagement.
Supporting the better projects also sends out the message for that standards need to be better.
I’ve watched only the first episode of Pluto, because she lies and pretends to be someone else! Very toxic and red flag
Pluto also takes on the issues of ableism. [Oops, heroine has to get her sight back for the happy ending ...]. Give Pluto more of a chance. There's more plot there
This video is necessary people should watch and listening very well. although i really liked Blank Affair and TSOU i have to agree. But for me TSOU were the least problematic well it not good if your ex come to yoir lofe trying to get you back when you say you wont her back and alsoshe sleeps with you when you drunk that were red flags for me... and the fact that Earn broke up with Fahlada without talking anu conversation...were awful. About Gad this better not sau what i think because their fans cant accept other people opinion. Blank I think the age gap is not a problem but the actress looks and character looked like 16 and that&s remember me the movie Loving Annabelle...not my favorite. Affair...well good kisses but we all saw.
Anyway this is what we get when they want money and we don't have nothing and accept anything.
@@lauretta90100I hope that you can give it another go. Episode 9-10 onwards will start giving the perspective of the other characters, it will then make sense.
Also, Ai-oon only did that at the request of her twin to help breakup with May and subsequently she felt stuck and didn’t know how to tell May the truth, although she tried to many times.
Uhmm about Pluto, I wouldn’t even call it a sex scene-'love scene' is a much better term for it. Those scenes are beautiful and serene. Idk, I might be biased. Hahahaha
Love all the points brought up in this episode - we deserve so much more and I appreciate the call out/critique, which I think are important for claiming/reclaiming our stories and being in control of our narratives.
I recommend The Loyal Pin - different author, different period - great storytelling, great production value - well paced -on the slow side. Color grading is so good.
As a GL fan I agree with everything you said. It’s crazy that the most popular GLs are the most toxic ones! I don’t know what that says about our community 😬 But there are lots of non-toxic Thai GLs like 23.5, Reverse 4 You and The Loyal Pin. I hear Pluto is also not toxic but I haven’t seen it. Affair, Blank and GAP are the toxic trifecta written by the same problematic author many GL fans have been calling out for years. She has weird pdf fileic and borderline incestuous themes. If you think the series are bad, the books are even worse! It’s good to keep calling these toxic themes out and demanding good stories for the wlws. Keep it up 🔥
@@addy8078 the loyal pin community is non toxic is an understatement. I have seen few toxic Freen Becky fan looking down on other Gl series storyline.
I totally agree, Chaoplanoy’s novels are the worst, problematic and toxic af.
@ I’m talking about the shows not the fans. By non-toxic I mean the characters have a healthy relationship in the show.
@ oh, sorry I miss read it.
The screenplay of Pluto is so much better than Chaoploy’s book. The characters are deeper and more likable, their love story more plausible, and it conveys important societal themes. Whoever adapted the book should write some original screenplays so we get better shows.
A lot of my friends are watching Thai GL and are recommending it to me, but haven’t had time to watch until recently and then saw you guys’ take on it which makes me feel that I shouldn’t watch any of it until better stuff comes out.
From the few clips and trailers I’ve seen, Thai GL seems like they follow traditional soap opera, even with the comparison to Korean drama, maybe it’s more the “makjang” genre which draws a certain viewership. Regarding the topic of tackling more real issues and moving away from romance, I recall being at a director talk after a viewing of a Filipino coming-of-age GL film, “Baka Bukas” and one thing left an impression, the director mentioned wanting to make queer films that are aspirational - that struck me, and is something I remember till today. I think SEA GL content is still at infancy and before we get to the better stuff, we must suffer through its growing pains, it’s like that quote, “Well, I must endure the presence of a few caterpillars if I wish to become acquainted with the butterflies”
90% of the thai GLs mentioned were written by the same author where they adapted the novels into series which i think is a huge problem right there. 100% agree with everything, as a consumer of thai gl and bls, you said what i needed to say because i dont want to get problems irl if i say these things. also, the fact that tsou is an older novel which i gave the benefit of the doubt where emotional abuse is there but the thing is they are adapting an old novel into current day tv show, they have some liberties to change it but maybe they want it to be true to the novel for ppl who read it?
and when ppl say its thai culture or asian or sea culture, id be doubting myself, felt a lil gaslit as a singaporean. i feel like the only thing that makes me watch these gls are the love teams/ships irl that are entertaining as individuals interacting with each other. from what i've seen online, i still kinda feel obligated to support it because ive been waiting for thai gl for yearssss and even in thailand its still quite niche due to it being a growing industry, literally exploded in 2023. and there's more openly queer actors in GLs as the main, as you mentioned faye, then orm in tsou, GraceOaey in Mate the series(this series same f*cking author as GAP, Affair. Blank, Pluto), engfa in petrichor and a few in My Marvellous Dream Is You.
also, i think thai gls are leaning into telenovela/soap opera type from what ive seen in the recent ones. even these 2 years, thai bls are having more "being gay" is the secondary part and not the main plot type of story which you can see it took so damn long for them to reach this point but i feel like thai gls could literally just take what was alr criticised in bls to improve but i guess since they constantly use novels to adapt it into gls similar to bls, the novels arent catching up yet.
yes, thai and sea ppl are not dumb, look at the success of How To Make Millions Before Grandma Dies, there's a reason why this movie did well and why its going to be nominated in the oscars (currently shortlisted).
i feel like the only opinion i have that is different is straight presenting actors, because we still have to understand that to work in the entertainment industry long, they have to be straight-passing to get more and diff roles as actors. there are probs a lot more queer ppl in gls that are not open with their sexual orientation so we shouldnt make assumptions. but def the plots for series should have different looking queer ppl maybe thru open casting rather than within the production house for more different visual representation.
I get what you're saying, but I think your criticisms are unfair considering they're based on watching only 4 of the more than 20+ Thai GL series out there. Also what series, worldwide, doesn't show stories and people who are dysfunctional, toxic and flawed? They all do because they're based on human beings who are messy, flawed and chaotic. The tropes in many GL series aren't new (every series straight or LGBTQ has the same tropes) and people watch them because they can relate to them in some way. As well, many of these stories deal with complex family and societal issues that need to be brought out into the open and discussed. When you say you don't think straight people would enjoy these series and find them unrelatable or toxic, I disagree. For one, I know there are actually a lot of straight GL and BL fans out there who love these series (I read their comments and praise all the time on social media). And I think when some straight folks watch them for the first time they might actually think their lives are not so different from LGBTQ folks. And that's the point. These are human stories about people who aren't perfect, who have drama and trauma and make bad decisions sometimes. But what I love about most of these series is that the characters make it through their hardships and experience much needed personal growth by the end of the series. And yes, most GL series have happy endings, which may not be realistic, but that's the point of many TV shows. They're meant to be forms of entertainment and escapism, and if we're lucky, educational. I for one don't want to watch entirely realistic shows and movies all the time. Living real life is enough for me. I want fantasy, drama and whatever else these series provide to briefly escape real life. Lastly, I just want to say that I've watched almost every GL series released (from many countries, not just Thailand) and while not every one is a masterpiece (some truly are), I love and support them all because our community has needed series and representation like this for a long time. We've never had so many shows to choose from and released in such a short time. I'm very grateful for the trailblazers in the GL industry and I think in the years to come, we're only going to be getting better and better content and representation, as long as we keep supporting the efforts of these story tellers, production companies and talented actors.
We are not saying that individuals with trauma and the mess that comes with it SHOULD BE REMOVED. We are saying that there can be a lot more depth to these series. Example, as mentioned in the video, the trauma that the character experienced in Affairs was not touched on AT ALL. Yes, there can be trauma, there are ways to portray how trauma shows up in certain situations. Unfortunately these are not touched on in a lot of these shows. On top of that, the queer experiences of south east asians are not highlighted in any of the series that we have watched. As mentioned, we have so many different cultures and beliefs here in SEA, it would be great for the series to portray how these cultures and beliefs affect the queer experience.
In terms of a "realistic experience" as we have mentioned yet again, you can have various genres of films and series, all the way from fantasy to romcom to even shows that showcase the actual struggles of the queer experience in SEA. What we have noticed is, the same storyline/trope is constantly getting recycled.
It's fine that people enjoy the current Thai GLs, what we're looking for is diversity, more representation, and stories being portrayed in a tasteful manner. Not cheap tactics to string audiences along. Though it's understandable the shows need to do these things to gain traction. It seems that this has been the theme throughout.
No harm in some constructive criticism from and for our own community. At the end of the day all of us just want more representation and the current Thai GLs, according to some, are satisfactory and according to others, are not satisfactory.
@@TheOatmilkLesbiansI understand what you're saying and I agree with you about there being a lack of diversity in many of these series. For instance, most of the main characters are fair-skinned and don't represent the majority of the population in Thailand or other SEA countries. They definitely need to include more people with different shades of skin. It's a problem everywhere, honestly. There are also many characters who are wealthy and that's also not representative of the majority of any population. I'd love to see more stories that feature characters from smaller towns or rural areas rather than the big city, stories about every day people with different ways of life, which we don't often see. I also agree with you about the characters from Affair and that they didn't really address the deep traumas both characters experienced. I'd love to see more scenes about proper healing and even therapy, which is rarely ever brought up in most of these series. So many of these dysfunctional characters really need therapy or some other healthy way to get through their past traumas. I think, as you do, that many of these stories could be better and we should ask for more, and many people have (and some studios are listening). We're just in the first years of the GL industry and already I've seen much improvement in different areas, so I believe as time goes by that they will continue to release higher quality content with better representation.
Ok Im speaking from a black lesbian standpoint. I totally get what the ladies are discussing and I think its totally valid. But I also want us as a lesbian community to understand that we are not above having trash tv. I think the problem is we dont have enough balance between the good and the bad especially when your a lesbian of color. We are so starved of content.
I love that these ladies are speaking out though. Its good to hear from the real Asian lgbt community about the content that is displaying their specific lgbt culture/community.
Side note:
I absolutely loved Blank and 23.5 😅
I think this is an important conversation, especially now that GLs outside of the West are rising/been on a rise. But we should def raise the standard when it comes to GL narratives. I know screenplays adapt books and other media, so there is def room for these changes or even talks about original works.
First of all, There was no pedophilia in any of these shows you named. Look up the definition of pedophilia. Next thing is all these shows are based off of books, which usually take good writing talent to convert into something that would be good quality TV. They hired the cheapest writers for the money they had. The budgets for these shows are based off the Fandom. The more popular the shows and actors are, the more advertisers are willing to invest in the next project. It's basically a circle. You can't produce good quality shows unless you have money. You can't get money without advertisers and people watching your shows. 90% know that the shows are not the best, but every year they get a little bit better, because people are watching them, which generates more investors and advertisers. I guess you forgot when you couldn't get a BL or GL show on TV.? Im not happy with the bad storylines, bad sets and bad acting of some of the shows. But I watch anyways because I'm smart enough to know its an investment into the future of what will come later. You bad idea of not watching is just telling the producers and investors, to stop making LGBTQ shows because no one is interested. Then we're left to no shows being produced anymore. And lastly you basically just rave and screamed for 45 minutes of all the things you hate, but I barely heard you give any positive feedback on what they were doing good, with their attempts ar making the LGBTQ community more normal in people's everyday life. I've talked to many people that use to be anti-gay and these shows have made them become more accepting that it doesn't matter who you love or marry.
There is pedophilia in Blank. The younger is portrayed as a kid, even if she’s not a minor. Added to the maternal way the older treats her. It’s wrong and disturbing.
Yes, we are definitely in agreement with continuously watching and supporting as future investment and that is exactly what we have been doing thusfar. We also have watched a lot of local short films here in Malaysia with extremely TERRIBLE budget (you can tell from their production quality and the very very very small production crew). These small budget short films are able to create amazing short films. Approaching this from that perspective, we really believe us SEAs can do so much better with whatever budget that these Thai GLs had. Sure, some people do enjoy these films, to each their own. We're not saying "stop making films" we're saying, "make better films, make films that highlight how our multilayered asian cultures intertwine with the queer experience" "Have more representation with actors and actresses". THAT is what we're saying.
@Liljo330 👍Je suis tout à fait d'accord avec toi !
I agree and disagree. First all thank you for putting awareness out there in regard to gl series. Thai gl in particular has been only been out there for 2-3 years. It’s relatively new, if anything it’s like a newborn. There will be flaws mistakes and lots of problems. I’ve seen a few handful of Thai gls, some I hate some I like. But as an asian lesbian I’m glad there is some sort of representation for us. Not all series are masterpieces and most actually suck but are a few good ones though. Try checking out The Loyal Pin and Pluto.
These series are not perfect by any means and the characters in the series are not perfect by any means. But that’s the whole point. These characters are flawed and messy. We won’t have a story to unfold if all the characters were perfect and knew exactly what they wanted from the beginning and had no issues or dramas. The point is characters evolution and growth and how relatable are they. Human/people are messy and flawed. How do we tackle challenges how do they face life tough situations. I think that’s what matters. With that said, Thai gl will continue to evolve and get better. We will always get toxic characters that’s not a question. It matters of how good the series evolve and unfold and tell a story. I will continue to watch Thai gl series and will continue to love some and hate some. We are all entitled to our opinion I truly respect yours. Once again thanks for bringing light to this matter.
Exactly!❤
@ Thai gl isn’t all that bad lol 😂. It’s my guilty pleasure, I will continue to support it. 😆
I hear what you’re both saying, I personally can see how the story lines aren’t typically healthy representations. The thai gl content will probably evolve but at present it’s run like a business, to gain as much revenue as possible from the gl couples and less about the quality of the storyline.
Interesting this actually made me think a bit differently about these shows... I personally like them, even though there are a lot of tropes I don't support in real life I think sometimes in film it's ok to have them, especially when just starting out. I really just ignore those parts and try to find the good in whatever I'm watching, but I think your criticism is fair.
Definitely agree that there should be more diverse representation, more different types of queer story lines I would love to see it.
Shows I would suggest you try watching (although most of them are not on TH-cam):
- Petrichor (more of a police, detective, murder drama - although the romance is moving rather fast for me) : It somewhat touches on the police corruption in Thailand, there's murder cases being solved and the relationship isn't super toxic as far as I can tell, there are also some queer friends and coworkers in the show.
- Reverse 4 you (superpowers show): The main character has a superpower to manipulate time - which is something we don't see much in gl. Overall pretty good although there is a scene were the leads have s3x and one of them is basically blackout drunk - did not love that. I like that it focuses a lot on the bond between biological sisters, friendship and family in general. It's cute if it wasn't for that one scene. Still recommend watching.
- Ayaka Is in Love with Hiroko (Japanese) - this one also has a large age gap (10 years or so I think) and workplace romance but I feel like it was better executed although the whole plotline is super cringy. It also touches a bit on the whole being gay in a work environment topic and stuff like that. There is also a gay bar there and I really liked that.
- 23.5 : There are many different queer characters, there is also queer autistic representation, overall cute story (high-school) - but there is some lying and hiding the truth form one of the lead characters and I didn't like that story point.
- Pluto: There is some disability representation as one of the leads is blind. I really liked that part of the story. Too much lying though (it's about twins, one gets into a coma and the other one is pretending to be her sister - I don't want to spoil too much but there is a lot going on).
- The Loyal Pin (period drama) : this one still has the homophobia trope but I feel like it makes more sense because it's set in like the 50s or something like that and also royalty so that is a bit different... There are a lot of sm3x scenes though and it's mostly just a story of two women getting together. I will say their relationship is pretty solid although maybe borderline codependent.
Definitely need more diversity though!!!!!! I feel like that is the main thing we're missing. Slowly we are getting different storylines but the diversity is still not there. I mean most of the actors are the same in the upcoming shows, which is good for the ships but bad for the representation. I will say even in non queer media those are common issues so I wouldn't put it all on gl-s...
Loyal Pin had government funding and so - imo - higher production quality.
I also found loyal Pin to do a really beautiful job of working in the Thai culture
Lastly - as a 65 yr old white lesbian in the US who's been watching lesbian films forever, I've never seen such unselfconscious, pro lesbian scenes - including the soft pron which I thought mapped to the story arc and was beautifully shot
The Loyal Pin has a lot worse tropes than that, like low level incest. Good show though.
@@BobT4279 Because they made it realistic. Most royal families used to have cousin marriages in the past (and still do but not much) to keep their royal blood pure. And also, Anin and Pin are just very distant relatives. Her grandfather was a distant cousin of Pin's great grandfather so that technically makes Anin "aunt." If they weren't royal members, they wouldn't know they were related. Royal heritage is often well documented, that's why they know who their distant relatives/cousins are unlike the general population. I know it sounds eerie but it is supposed to present how sheltered are royal families.
@@morbidgirl6808 Which is fair, but most, if not all, of these shows, at least from Thailand, deal with toxic and/or controversial tropes. Not just those adapted from Chao Planoy books. The amount that she gets accused of such things compared to the other writers is unfair imo. Could shows be written without such things? Sure. She loves to cook, She loves to eat is one example of that, but it's also good to use them in stories so they can be discussed and examined.
@@BobT4279 I understand what you mean but the TLP author "Monmaw" had different intentions from ChaoPlanoy and explained the heritage very well. The book version was actually better than the series version (IDF added dumb things that don't make sense or feel out of character). The book was purely non toxic with no problematic tropes and lack of drama. This is one of few GLs where the book version was actually better. Even Monmaw is a well respected author in the Thai sapphic community and is the one of biggest influences on adaptation of non toxic stories at this moment. IDF ruined the TLP story a bit in an adaptation tbh. Still, the series is good at least but the company is at fault for being careless and making semi harmful damages to the reputation of the actually good author.
You’d be surprised how many straight people watch these shows! I always see people saying “I’m straight but I love this”, lots of straight BL enjoyers also watch GL. Looking at the most popular straight romance books Sarah J Maas, Colleen Hoover etc you can see straight people love toxic tropes too. It’s just human nature to seek out edgy content. It’s something you can explore in fiction but you wouldn’t actually want in real life. The issue is when these are the only lesbian stories that people hype up and talk about. And there’s no reflection of real lesbian love. It’s so hard to find that in Thai GL right now. But I’m glad it’s getting the funding it needs to establish itself as a genre. I think in the future better stories will come out.
Yeah. There was a poll 2 years ago on twitter and asking GL fans about their sexuality. The answer was that almost 45% fans were heterosexual women and 54% were queer women. Only 1% were men (both heterosexual and queer). That poll shocked me a lot. But again, this is Thai shows and most BL fans aren't just BL fans. They watch Thai shows generally (regardless of genre) so it's no surprise that they will consume GLs too.
I think GL fans aren't that dumb and they are aware of issues. I remember many of them complaining about problematic stuffs. They know and are promoting new changes. I think Loyal Pin, Pluto, 23.5, Reverse4you and Petrichor saved the GL. They were really big improvements from previous GLs. And I hope it will continue in this way.
@ I was surprised too. I originally thought it was only queer women who watch GLs but if you interact with fans you’ll see a lot of straight women, with whole husbands, love GL! And there’s probably more straight fans now than 2 years ago too. I agree with you on those GLs saving the genre. Things are getting better and we’re stepping away from toxic narratives.
I think you are my new favorite people. I laughed out loud at all your cursing!
While i fundamentally agree with everything you've said (inasmuch as i can a a white lesbian from the us), i also want to give a shout for let it develope.
Mate took on Incest (well i thought) [even though discussing the abuse will not give rise to passionate lovemaking, but i'm willing to grant artistic licence]; love bully takes on transvesticm and Pluto takes on ableism and public accommodation.
I also think anyone who cares about this industry HAS to look at the production companies. It's disgusting how they are making these women parade around flirting in public pretending these relationships are real. [Not unlike US Hollywood in the 50's... We had to grow out of it]
I so enjoyed all of your handling of this stuff. As a 65 year old, i can't tell from here if being femme is somehow the new lesbian aesthetic [androgyny was our code word in the 70's & 80's.😂]
Anyway i think if we can get some queer money into some of these productions, my hope is to see Thailand OWN GL!
Yes, as being (UK) of the same age as your good self I agree with you all the way. We fought tooth and nail in the 70s and 80s for the LGBT inclusion to get it on a healthy footing….the GLs have not reach this stage…yet. I found Gap and Blank quite shocking but there seems to be a slow progress in the right direction…give it time. I think PLUTO is kind of gently moving this process forward. I also have a major problem with this ‘shipping’ that is done by these film companies by shoving and parading these actresses on stage pretending to be in relationships with one another and creating a hysterical young public…giving these kids a totally wrong and unhealthy impression.
Absolutely dumb topic-as someone who has searched long and hard for lesbian content for years, the Thai GLs blow everything else out of the water AND the fact they are free on YT is a GIFT!! I hope they keep them up!
Thank you for saying this and demanding better representation. So far, Petrichor is the only show I've seen which actually has a good plot and a healthy sapphic relationship. I really hope it blows up and changes the narrative for Thai GL.
Loved Gap so kindly agree to disagree. Respect opinions though and have no problem with those who didn’t enjoy. My love for Thailand was born/ awakened as a result of Freen, specifically 🙏🏻
I liked Gap i think the contrast between Mon and Sam's personalities was funny...but I think there was too much drama and unecessary fights between them.
It's crazy that how people pertain thai GLs as problematic. Sure there are cases wherein, the production and writer itself did a poor adaptation of these books. There are series and works that purely for work, entertainment and to not be taken seriously. BLANK was viewed as grooming/pdo, but that is not the case at all. They've done a good job in all aspect, in terms of character development, storytelling and phasing. People look for representation, but only for SELECTIVE representation. When presented to you, you call it problematic. People learned the word grooming/pdo and ran with it screaming. please, pick a struggle.
Blank the series (age gap relationships) and its story itself ; to say its toxic I disagree. Instead of criticising try understand it.
@@honestgemini7580 as a series age gap is not problematic. But the original novel, Aneung is 18, it is illegal in Thailand.
Thank you for this. I was worried I was the only one feeling this cause there wasn’t even that good chemistry between the leads in Gap ppl are just so starved for any representation. Blank got better but I can’t get over the fact they REDUCED the age gap cause it used to be even bigger in the books 😳
What do you guys want from lesbians? 😭😭😭😭 Yall should start making shows yourselves
Ok you are hilarious 😂
@ No but for real 😂 are we not allowed to have controversial storylines just because we are gay? Are we only allowed to make healthy relationship series? We need to watch drama, and that can look very different. There are other healthy relationship GLs but they aren’t popular.
The Loyal Pin, Affair, Two of Us, Stupid Wife (Brazilian), 23.5, Mate the Series like??? They must first watch a bit more before they make such videos 🙄
People pointing out what could improve is literally how… humans improved bro 😂 its why we got our iphones and computers and dont use stone tablets
@@diegoalcantaras5580 I know, but last video they complained that there is no non-white representation. Queue the list of shows we suggested with non-white lesbians. Now it’s another thing? 😭
How about we talk about what we enjoyed about the shows? What they did well? And what we are looking forward to from future shows (suggesting healthy storylines they want to see)?
Pluto BEST REP storywise, disabled awareness-wise, cinematography wise
I liked the side characters and then they got weird towards the end of the show. Heavily implied threesome. Eh.
Pluto as a series is great but the original novel is so toxic
@ idk never read it
@@diegoalcantaras5580 I never too but my friend who is a Pluto fan told me. Plus, Gl series that originated from Chaoplanoy’s novel are always problematic.
@ thats crazy i guess the network changed a lot cus the writing in the show is actually very good and doesnt feel creepy like GAP 😂
Zezeho is the author I like the most!! she speaks about gay rights and marriage and stuff and "Reverse 4 you" is the healthiest relationship I've seen. I did like Apple my love, despite some details, but yesh overall it's toxic aF, but it's a show! Girls Rules or something is upcoming and it seems it'll be a hot mess and I am up for it!!! I am an "older" lesbian so these aren't a role model thing for me, if they were, that'd be different.
Novels are even worse. In the shows we got tamed version. I agree with a lot of what you said, but also there is an issue that many like toxic relationships. Remember how popular L word was and it was toxic af.🤷♀️
I loved warrior nun and the plot. The relationship was more emotional and not sexual. The most we got was a kiss and still the love was clear from the start. I think that toxic sells and that is why there are many stories like that
I basically agree with everything you guys are saying. Thai dramas in general seem to be more about having a fantasy fulfilled rather than having a story to actually tell. So I don’t think these problematic tropes are exclusive to the gls. I don’t think that we are going to get a show that tells an organic queer story from the Thai gl industry as it stands now judging by the way these shows are produced. Most of them are written and produced extremely quick which I think plays in to why these shows are on a fanfic level of writing. It’s also a new industry that’s borrowing a lot from the bl industry which also has a lot of problems in of itself. All this being said I don’t think enjoying these show is necessarily a bad thing. As they stand now these shows are just candy that people watch mindlessly. I do think not engaging with them critically will only encourage the creators to make more of these fanfic level dramas. I think we should also look at the fact that making shows like this is what sells to the majority of people which is sad seeing as blank probably the most problematic show of all of the gls is also the most popular one out there. Visuals and production are enough for a lot of people to keep watching. It sucks because there are a lot of experiences that are left out of these gls. Even shows I liked like Pluto and Reverse 4 you had the chance to tell a story about the class struggles of growing up and being working class but instead focused on the romance part of the story. I do think if you want more plot driven stories I’d watch those two though. I don’t think having problematic topics discussed in these shows is bad but I think the way they are talked about and written is the issue here. These shows rarely if ever expect the people watching to be intelligent people who have morals themselves and see the emotional abuse for what it is. I think fans being too kind to the creators of these shows for that only makes it seem like they are okay with these gross storylines. On diversity this is also an issue in every country we rarely ever see women on screen that aren’t as white as a sheet of paper. As someone who grew up watching Mexican soaps it’s still a challenge to get anyone darker than paper to show up on screen. I do think that a lot of the girls who are acting in these gls are queer a few of them have come out before and a lot of the directors and writers are also queer. But the queer experience is absent in these shows regardless of the queer people working on them. These shows have no sense of queer community or anything to do with the queer experience. Nothing about Thai queer slang or culture which is insane because Thai queer culture is so massive. We get homophobic characters that suddenly become not homophobic. You can easily swap one of the female characters to a male character and it wouldn’t change the stories much. What we have in the gl industry is just slope and I think it’s probably always going to be that way because that’s how it’s designed to be. Maybe we’ll get lucky and get a good show one of these days. Anyways thanks for bringing up this conversation and I’m sorry for all of the hate you’re probably going to get.
I agree with so much of what you’ve said. I had a hard time getting through Gap because of the work harassment and emotional abuse. But…yes, we get so little that we tolerate toxic series. It took me several months to get through Blank because I disliked everything about it but Faye’s performance and the production. I see some level of toxicity in most of the series. For me, jealousy itself is toxic, but apparently many find possessiveness and jealousy flattering. First -- one of the reasons we are getting the toxic plots is because there are too few, good lesbian writers and so many of the shows we are seeing are screenplays from just two Thai lesbian writers whose characters are often dysfunctional. Second, as someone who is a few generations old, I can sadly say that there is actually a lot of toxicity in the community…mostly because of how we are treated by society. I get very concerned when I read the comments on TH-cam series that are either blatantly ignorant of the toxic behavior that they are witnessing or they forcefully defend it.
dont hate me but for me all thai gl and bl are not good. Bad story line and not special, boring. For BL i like chinese bromance more, even its only bromance, but they have a interesting story line and the characters have more deph (?) . I Hope it will be someday a GL series produce like the chinese Bromance series.I only want a nice and interesting story with two woman as a lead role. Sorry for my bad english
Talking about 'Complex Topics', i hope you guys can talk about the struggles of Queer/Gay Loneliness, isolation and high suicide rate because we only make up about 5-10% of the world population. Second, maybe like you guys also mentioned about Diverse experiences, everything you've learned so far about internalized homophobia in the community and individually, like whats you guy's opinion on how certain issues in the community has manifested itself.
And lastly, what do you guys think of this 'Masc shortage' trend? I hear fems, specifically in my city (nyc) complain that there arent enough masc women to date.
We got the Loyal Pin which isn't problematic
Do the presenters know all of these GLs are based on books? The argument regarding TSOU is very weak. People in real life break up and react in similar ways but it does not constitute abuse. But if the point is that you both did not enjoy any of the series then it makes more sense if you have a basis of comparison. What is a “better” example? Please provide some good examples of romantic stories you both enjoyed.
Dude, the abuse comes from the mother
I love Thailand movies I got hooked officially last month and I can’t put it down ! You guys are beautiful ❤. Wish success and happiness to both
Y'all should check out Petrichor The Series. It's a Thai GL but I honestly wouldn't group it with other GLs because the plot is really good despite there being sapphic relationships in the show.
They don't care about having good plots, acting, character development etc. They're the ONLY people in Asia willing to film these contents. Taiwan is gaining traction but they're more focused on BL. Since they are the only ones, queers don't have a choice but to watch them. Even if it's bad. In order for them to actually be good, we need them to have competitions. I have hope in Taiwan.
The toxic messages are shoking. But if you read the comments you realize they represent society beliefs. They are deeply educational
Important points, I would agree 100% if it wasn’t for that these series are truly an over exaggeration of drama for entertainment purposes, which pleases a lot of people including me. I couldn’t watch a lot of blank because of them pushing the “child” behave on one of the characters.
And saying that if it was a man in that situation it always gonna be different. A man always holds more power in society and personal context. Is infinite different to be “pursued” by a man, being your boss, an older man or any of this situations, than a girl. They will never be in the same level to be just “replace for a man and tell me what you think”. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment no matter the gender but the power that a man holds in society has definitely a different standard.
I understand the want for better shows but how you are coming after an entire industry after only having watched 2 & a half amount of GL series is beyond me, but whatever. The main reason the fans are rolling their eyes on your complaints is because you're thrashing on series that are already out, done, completed. Like what do you expect the companies to do? Take them down and reshoot it?
You keep saying "Asian media" "South East Asian media" but I need you to take a step back and remember that these are "Thai GL Series" which is a form of media that had just started coming out a few years ago with Gap taking the lead. In media terms it's basically an industry at it's INFANCY. Most GL fans are not blind to these red flags & problems, of course we all want better plots & healthier representation. But you're basically sitting there shaming on fans for liking these series, which I find ridiculous.
I can't speak on other series but it irks me when you said "it's not like they don't have the capacity to do other things" because if you actually did research, they didn't, at least not for Gap. There were literally NO SPONSORS for the show. No one believed in Sapphic content. They basically had 6 fans show up in the beginning. It's a miracle the series was even made in the first place which then opened up the whole industry. Heck it even made it so that same sex marriage is legal in Thailand now. So unless If you guys could go ahead & sponsor them so they could afford better novels to adapt, of course fans would view your rants as unappreciative.
Also, the industry IS improving. They Are doing better. Just reading the comments you can already see great recommendations. How are you making this video without watching those first? Why do you keep saying that the GL industry is staying stagnant? Just like every other form of media, there will always be shows that are just money makers, shows that will touch you, and some that are just straight up not your taste, and that's ok imo.
Another thing is, how tf are the actresses being straight take away their contribution & performance in a GL series? From this point onwards, I'm just hearing bad takes after bad takes & opinions formed from very poor research. Tolong lah, lain kali research lah banyak skit sebelum nak komen 1 industry tu.
If you're open to it, we would highly recommend you stream or attend local Malaysian low/no budget films -- many of which are brilliantly made even compared to our more commercialized ones, unless you're very well-versed with them already. Plenty of small time filmmakers in Malaysia have been very thoughtful with how they direct and produce local films with no sponsors as well and it's very commendable. A lot of these independent producers and directors are also not tied to any existing entertainment agency like Idol Factory for many of these series. Many of them are entirely bootstrapped. Unsure if you are someone who works in production, but if so, would you care to share if budget limits good writing this much?
Also nobody is shaming any fans for liking these series, and neither are we going to stop supporting them either as we have already mentioned many times. The only reason why GL will continue to improve is because of continuous feedback which we are providing and because we actually believe in how much potential they have.
@@TheOatmilkLesbians It's also important to acknowledge that good writing is a matter of personal taste and can be influenced by various factors, including cultural context, personal experiences, and individual perspectives. Meaning that "good" writing is subjective. And I don't know, I hope you take the current feedback you are receiving in a good way.
Right now, Thai is winning. And maybe tomorrow Malaysia. Who knows?
Imma just say this…… thoughts are valid on one’s self. To express and make such an opinionated video… I mean come on… This is slander. And not nice. Period.
You know the answer, you said it yourself, not-the-best representation is better than no representation. I was in agreement with most of what you had to say. Also, straight people have these types of movies. I found nothing to criticize about "All About Us." Few people can produce cinematic major films. They're all limited in cost productions. Orm is best actor of them all.
Whatch The Loyal Pin and Pluto
I completely agree with this opinion honestly. I remember watching gap when it first came out and being very weirded out by all the scene between mon and sam as kids as well as the work place power imbalance. I have watched the other ones you mentioned and I really dislike blank it’s very gross to me the way she acts like a kid. I personally really liked affair up until episode 7 and 8 and now looking back there is a lot of problematic topics in it too. Though I agree with all the things you said here I will says there are certain gls that I absolutely love that being 23.5, Apple my Love and Reverse 4 You. I personally think that those 3 series have great plots that are not as problematic and I hope we don’t have any more adaptions by Chao Planoy (btw apple is one of hers but I think it’s her least problematic one) also I agree we shouldn’t be afraid to voice these opinions and strive for better representation.
I started watching Thai GL series in 2023. Some were ok and some I found problematic. It's not a great service but they are free on YT. I really thought the Thais were white because all the actresses are white. I thought the contact lenses for the eyes was weird but otherwise I thought the Thais were white. When I was in Thailand last year, I was shocked. There are hardly any light-coloured Thais. The queer community is very diverse and it's a shame that it's not portrayed that way in series. But I have to defend the Thais in one respect. All over the world, you only see the most beautiful ones on TV and you think everyone looks like that. In the West, people have started to be diverse. But everywhere else is unfortunately not the case. Watch Indian films. They're all white but in reality 80% are dark and I think that's a shame.
lots of their fans are actually toxic. they need to grow up, accept fanservice as it is. Stop being delutional, those actors need fans to make money thus the fanservice. They are not actually queer. Just be happy & enjoy the fanservice but don't think it is real for one sec.
some of the thai gls made by chaoplanoy is very toxic, but its looked at as normal😭
but then again every single gl series be having the same problems, its either the grandmas, or moms, or sisters basically family and the separation scenes are so emotional 😭😭
Thailand is leading when it comes to GL series/movies. All those series that you mentioned, have lots of fans throughout Asia and other continents. All those actors fly to other countries to sold out fan meets. Have you ladies ever thought about writing your own GL script? You definitely should think about it
Also some character always gets hit by a car or in a car accident,even the gl Pluto,a guy gets ran over by a car and Uranus 2324 or whatever was shit,seems after YES OR NO 1&2 gl went all about sex/kissing scenes...so many yuri manga that have great storylines but not chosen to be live action for example Opium and Pulse,storylines like those.
I don't like to describe works or fiction as being problematic or toxic unless it's actively endorsing some very terrible things. I think you have to let drama be drama, and the things that make drama interesting and fun are the problematic or toxic elements. The point of drama is to entertain not to show how you should live you life. In fact, pretty much every show that's on a major Thai network has a disclaimer to that effect. It's fine if it's not for you.
bro whatever man, expect gap others are good productions, we should look at them like entertainment
but i do agree with all that you said though
agree with you!!!!! we need better storyline erghhhh
Happy new year 💕
Ngl, every novel by Ch*o pla*oy is super toxic and have unhealthy type of relationship. Wondering why companies keep using that specific author works as a series :')
I agree with you all about Blank series I find that those two at the end will not
March! Affier was not so bad! For Gap better the loyal pin!and the secret of us was very good need more interesting but still very good
all of these series are rearrange from novel, so the plot is quite simple and weird loll , somemore all of them are from small production house, so the quality is mehh.. for blank series, i think you need watch until season 2 haaha, season 1 indeed is annoying. The mature actor played quite well tho and having the struggle for their age gap. for TSOU, the production is from TV station so the quality indeed is much more better lahh haha.
Yeah agree with u, blank season2 is so much better. The actors for blank have really good acting skills too!
Well, majority of the popular series are "just for entertainment" and this applicable globally and not just for sapphic content. People are watching or consuming series to get a break from their sucks life. Their intention of watching is just different from you girls. They don't represent or even part of the community with the right awareness to say for the sapphic. So, if you want a well produced series, you need to dig in a bit deeper. Anyway, try The Loyal Pin. It's really well produced. And the Petrichor the series.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Everything you say. Re: Blank. It's worse than you know. She started school 3 years late and was held back a couple of years (in the series she's 20 yo). Having taught developmentally disabled adults, she is mildly developmentally disabled. The older woman is a well educated Mom Luang (member of the royal family). The story is bonkers on all levels.
Nah u guys need to watch Pluto it has 12 episodes it’s one of best gl so far also not very toxic
I also don't like Pluto which is written by Planoy too. But I agree that some of the Thai's GL are toxic and fans are tiring. I distanced from watching most of the Thai's GL, including Pluto. But why you lot use sapphic and not lesbian it's odd to me.
guys whatch she likes to cook she likes to eat its a very cute not problematic japones dorama
They don't have any plots and put into thoughts as well as straight/bl
All these are from the same author, you guys could see mate the series and tell us your view ,watching for entertainment we know is not real
о, да ладно. Во-первых, Анын было как минимум 20 лет, так что ни о каком груминге не может идти речи. Во-вторых, в течение всего сериала Нын сомневается в правильности этих отношений и долго отказывает младшей девушке. Большую разницу в возрасте между мужчиной и женщиной и парой, где одна женщина старше, нельзя сравнивать. У нас с мужчинами слишком разная социализация
watch The Loyal PIn
UNRELATED BUT YALL SHOULD WATCH ARCANE
best lesbian relationship portrayal imo so far
Finally someone said it. Thai GLs are cringy and toxic. Esp blank, can’t get through one episode. Hope we get better storylines in the future.
Try watching this brazilian gl
th-cam.com/play/PLeY6rifFxZxd1xpD3nJtP7IqEX_d28hhq.html&si=Fy87U2brnFxhVSOP
Happy new year 2025 oatmilk lets be more gay hahhaha think all ploy book red flag other gl was good okay
I don't like Gap and Blank. But i prefer 23.5 and Apple My Love. It is sooo heartwarming and the characters are showing green flags that show us a standard of relationship that we should settle for
Totally agree