This Artusi/Monteverdi (or preservation/exploration) dynamic is so relevant now in so many musical communities. Certainly in the early music community, but also in Irish music, bluegrass, jazz, and hip-hop. My favorite Tuvan throat singing group put it best: "traditional music is like a tree-the roots reach deep into the past, and the branches keep growing out towards the future. The tree needs both to survive."
I am Italian, exactly like Artusi and Monteverdi! I would like to highlight a play on words in the name of "Academic Dull". In Italian, "ottuso" is an adjective which means "dull" or "obtuse". "Academico", on the other hand, means simply Academic. So "Ottuso Accademico", in Italian, sounds more or less like "Academic Dull"! Thanks for your very interesting videos!
Finally got around to this video, and I love it! Your posts are always fascinating and incredibly informative, and your design and use of graphics are frosting on the cake! I've been fascinated by this period in music since my days as a Music undergrad literally 50yrs ago, and your videos do the period full justice. Thank you!
I think I may be a bit of a modern-day Artusi. I prepare all my dissonances, including sevenths, and started composing this way because it is a way to write coherent counterpoint, which is what I gradually worked out I wanted to do. There’s 400 years of good music that shows that this is not totally necessary, but once sevenths become consonances and there is one monolithic bass-line, it becomes difficult to compose music in a large number of parts (say 12 or more).
4:25 this is like 200 or 300 years more advanced than its era. This channel is amazing and it's sad at the same time because it reveals the cruel reality of the history of music, brilliant and genius masters of composition totally censored EVEN BY MODERN GUYS who just don't understand this art... Just sad.
I was taught that the battle between Prima and Secunda was more about the application of the word (or text) in musical settings. The style antico and the style moderna each favoring a different approach to what was appropriate for "worded" music.
just recently found out about this channel, and I love it! Easily my new favorite. Too bad most of the sources are in italian, or I would've researched them long ago!
Artusi's objectionable examples sounded so wonderfully 'Montrverdi" in all the right ways. When either 'problematic' voice was removed, it might've been more correct, but lost its uniqueness and distinctive flavor, for me at least. Monteverdi's music does break all kinds of rules, but always for a good reason or effect, and in so doing achieves a magical.quality hard to find in other compositions before or since. Fascinating to learn about the blow-back from Artusi, because if Monteverdi still sounds unique and magical to modern ears, what must the reaction have been at the premiere of Orfeo or the Vespers? Oh to have been there!
I was at the first performance of the Vespers the other day. I tried and tried to like them when I was younger because people said they were so great, but it seemed to me that the gestures were arbitrary and unfounded, and the beautiful rich textures of prima prattica were smashed and thrown away for no good reason. Then I was at a singing day, and we did a psalm from the Vespers, and the conductor spoke about the energy. I also bought a disk and score on the second hand music stall. I give him that he can write prima prattica with the best as shown by the Missa in illo tempore. My response was warmer than my youthful response, but still puzzled and unconvinced. Now at last I enjoy the dissonant misplaced tenor phrases in the Gloria Patri of the Magnificat a 7. He has smashed time up along with so much else, but now I can find it interesting. I expect I will listen again.
Hello, Elam. Once more, thanks for the great video. Have a question. In 13:15 you brought a Luca's quote telling about the relation of music with the body, and I find this very uncommon. Do you have any recommendation of literature that discuss this relation?
Thanks for the clarification on "seconda practica," but what about Caccini's term "stile moderno"? Is it equivalent to seconda practica or something else entirely?
So Artusi did this (rationalwiki.org/wiki/Quote_mining) to Monteverdi to make his point? And before the madrigals in question would officially be published?
Prima: counterpoint as practiced through the first half of the 16th century, where all "dissonances" were prepared (and de-emphasized); seconda: the liberation of dissonance (sevenths and ninths) by dispensing with the preparation, as invented perhaps by Cipriano de Rore and made famous by Monteverdi. Then there's terza pratica, which I presume is counterpoint based on serialism. ;-))
Now, 400 years later, it is impressive to consider how many music lovers are flocking to hear performances of Artusi's theoretically ideal compositions, and how Monteverdi's flawed music has vanished into well-deserved obscurity. (If anyone is wondering - yes, I'm being facetious.)
At the end, you get many things (sadly) wrong. Monteverdi could have been the one writing to Artusi. So its not a "myth" that Monteverdi came up with the terminus "seconda practica" himself. If you look into the sources, you see, that Monteverdi explains what "seconda practica" means and thus was the real inventor of that term. Secondly, later on, monody was a concept which was partly included in that term "seconda practica", which meant the new music - at monody became one part of that new music. So to say, monody isnt included in the seconda practica, is blatantly false (if you only limit the discussion to the first use of the term, then you are right tho, but noone does that). Thirdly, de Rore's madrigals are not comparable to Monteverdis. Monteverdis are muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better and have maaaaaaany more new techniques in it. Only because some guy found America maybe 1000 years ago, doesnt mean, that you can compare that to Columbus. Because noone heard of it or cared. And so it is with de Rore. De Cavalieri's madrigal is also not comparable, Monteverdi's sounds much better. And last but not least: Noone listens to Artusi today, but noone even came close to Monteverdi until this day; the only one maybe comparable is Bach. So Artusi was wrong and got destroyed by history.
It is a good day when Early Music Sources uploads
This Artusi/Monteverdi (or preservation/exploration) dynamic is so relevant now in so many musical communities. Certainly in the early music community, but also in Irish music, bluegrass, jazz, and hip-hop. My favorite Tuvan throat singing group put it best: "traditional music is like a tree-the roots reach deep into the past, and the branches keep growing out towards the future. The tree needs both to survive."
You have perfectly explained what "tradition" means. And not only in the musical domain.👍
Never thought I'd laugh out loud at an early music lesson so many times. Such great content and I love your sense of humor! Thank you!
One of the most incredible TH-cam channel out there (for me). Thank you so much for providing such great content
I am Italian, exactly like Artusi and Monteverdi!
I would like to highlight a play on words in the name of "Academic Dull". In Italian, "ottuso" is an adjective which means "dull" or "obtuse". "Academico", on the other hand, means simply Academic. So "Ottuso Accademico", in Italian, sounds more or less like "Academic Dull"!
Thanks for your very interesting videos!
I would love to hear Artusi's and Monteverde's view of modern jazz.
We have Adorno for that!
Finally got around to this video, and I love it! Your posts are always fascinating and incredibly informative, and your design and use of graphics are frosting on the cake! I've been fascinated by this period in music since my days as a Music undergrad literally 50yrs ago, and your videos do the period full justice. Thank you!
This is AWESOME! I had a great time learning all this. Thanks!
I think I may be a bit of a modern-day Artusi. I prepare all my dissonances, including sevenths, and started composing this way because it is a way to write coherent counterpoint, which is what I gradually worked out I wanted to do. There’s 400 years of good music that shows that this is not totally necessary, but once sevenths become consonances and there is one monolithic bass-line, it becomes difficult to compose music in a large number of parts (say 12 or more).
Amazing guys!! Thanks for sharing and congrats from Argentina! ♥️♥️
Everything here is knowledge, history and high level content. But I love your happy pineapple.
the introduction makes me feel like i asked someone why another person who was having a fit was angry
Such a fantastic youtube channel. Thanks for all your brilliant work.
4:25 this is like 200 or 300 years more advanced than its era. This channel is amazing and it's sad at the same time because it reveals the cruel reality of the history of music, brilliant and genius masters of composition totally censored EVEN BY MODERN GUYS who just don't understand this art... Just sad.
THANK YOU ELAM, this is epic :D
Thanks Elam! You make TH-cam better
And loooved what you did with the eyebrows 😄
This channel is a pure TREASURE
A very recent discovery and I'm loving it. What an excellently interesting channel.
Thanks to EMS to share in a very illustrative way priceless masterclass, greetings from Ecuador!
Just updated the Wikipedia article on Seconda pratica to remove Myth #1!
Very interesting and very well explained! thank you so much! 😍👏🏻
Thanks! Brilliant video. Very helpful
Amazing video!
I was taught that the battle between Prima and Secunda was more about the application of the word (or text) in musical settings. The style antico and the style moderna each favoring a different approach to what was appropriate for "worded" music.
Best TH-cam channel ever!
just recently found out about this channel, and I love it! Easily my new favorite. Too bad most of the sources are in italian, or I would've researched them long ago!
Artusi's objectionable examples sounded so wonderfully 'Montrverdi" in all the right ways. When either 'problematic' voice was removed, it might've been more correct, but lost its uniqueness and distinctive flavor, for me at least. Monteverdi's music does break all kinds of rules, but always for a good reason or effect, and in so doing achieves a magical.quality hard to find in other compositions before or since.
Fascinating to learn about the blow-back from Artusi, because if Monteverdi still sounds unique and magical to modern ears, what must the reaction have been at the premiere of Orfeo or the Vespers? Oh to have been there!
I was at the first performance of the Vespers the other day. I tried and tried to like them when I was younger because people said they were so great, but it seemed to me that the gestures were arbitrary and unfounded, and the beautiful rich textures of prima prattica were smashed and thrown away for no good reason. Then I was at a singing day, and we did a psalm from the Vespers, and the conductor spoke about the energy. I also bought a disk and score on the second hand music stall. I give him that he can write prima prattica with the best as shown by the Missa in illo tempore. My response was warmer than my youthful response, but still puzzled and unconvinced. Now at last I enjoy the dissonant misplaced tenor phrases in the Gloria Patri of the Magnificat a 7. He has smashed time up along with so much else, but now I can find it interesting. I expect I will listen again.
Hello, Elam. Once more, thanks for the great video. Have a question. In 13:15 you brought a Luca's quote telling about the relation of music with the body, and I find this very uncommon. Do you have any recommendation of literature that discuss this relation?
It's been a while, but I'm glad you're still posting :):) - very informative
I'll just add my own appreciation for Early Music Sources in general, and this interesting (and entertaining!) video in particular. Bravo!
Very informative and enjoyable, keep the good work up! thank You :)
De nuevo lo digo, maravilloso trabajo!!!!!
Thank you for this great video!
Very, very nicely done, and very informative!. What program do you use for making your videos?
Adobe After Effects
Thanks! Amazing and very useful information!
Excellent channel
Thank you Elam. Thank you and your blue pig. These videos are very interesting. Everything must come from somewhere.
Thanks for the clarification on "seconda practica," but what about Caccini's term "stile moderno"? Is it equivalent to seconda practica or something else entirely?
all the artusis of the world would not be able to stop it haha amazing
So Artusi did this (rationalwiki.org/wiki/Quote_mining) to Monteverdi to make his point? And before the madrigals in question would officially be published?
I wonder what Artusi would have thought about Boulez.
that scary & lovely mask with snakes on the harpsichord... I have got a similar one, but red
Nice show
I still don't get what is prima pratica and what is seconda pratica. Can someone explain?
Prima: counterpoint as practiced through the first half of the 16th century, where all "dissonances" were prepared (and de-emphasized); seconda: the liberation of dissonance (sevenths and ninths) by dispensing with the preparation, as invented perhaps by Cipriano de Rore and made famous by Monteverdi. Then there's terza pratica, which I presume is counterpoint based on serialism. ;-))
Elam, how to contact you for a tutorial please? Thank you
There are contact details on the website
@@EarlyMusicSources thank you. Found it and emailed
Many thanks!
Have you discussed the issues in Il Nuove Musiche (1602) by Caccini? or Le Istitutioni Harmoniche (1558) by Zerlino?
Thank you
Now, 400 years later, it is impressive to consider how many music lovers are flocking to hear performances of Artusi's theoretically ideal compositions, and how Monteverdi's flawed music has vanished into well-deserved obscurity. (If anyone is wondering - yes, I'm being facetious.)
Artusi is an inspiration and a hero.
this is soooooooooo great!
Bravo Elam!!!
It was good to learn about Artussy.
13:14 chad face 4 centuries before it was cool.
Love your blue pig....
this sounds like an ittalian class
Me-oow!
So Monteverdi epically won , starting the Tonal Era , apparently....
_But it is jazzy_
LOL...everything new is old again.
If Artusi was alive today and listened to Jacob's music he would kill himself lol
At the end, you get many things (sadly) wrong. Monteverdi could have been the one writing to Artusi. So its not a "myth" that Monteverdi came up with the terminus "seconda practica" himself. If you look into the sources, you see, that Monteverdi explains what "seconda practica" means and thus was the real inventor of that term. Secondly, later on, monody was a concept which was partly included in that term "seconda practica", which meant the new music - at monody became one part of that new music. So to say, monody isnt included in the seconda practica, is blatantly false (if you only limit the discussion to the first use of the term, then you are right tho, but noone does that). Thirdly, de Rore's madrigals are not comparable to Monteverdis. Monteverdis are muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better and have maaaaaaany more new techniques in it. Only because some guy found America maybe 1000 years ago, doesnt mean, that you can compare that to Columbus. Because noone heard of it or cared. And so it is with de Rore. De Cavalieri's madrigal is also not comparable, Monteverdi's sounds much better. And last but not least: Noone listens to Artusi today, but noone even came close to Monteverdi until this day; the only one maybe comparable is Bach. So Artusi was wrong and got destroyed by history.
i dont think artusi would like prokofiev lol
anyone with a brain doesn't like prokofiev
Artusi does a little trolling
!!!!!!!!!
Povera musica! 🤦🏻♂️
This Monteverdi sounds horrible. Who would listen to such nonsense?