Musica ficta!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ธ.ค. 2018
- For the footnotes and other extra information see the following link:
www.earlymusicsources.com/you...
Created by Elam Rotem
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Special thanks to Anne Smith, Iason Marmaras and Pedro Sousa Silva.
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You know it's a great day when this channel uploads
I made it 69 likes
I Totally agree!
I'm going with no sharp required, it's a natural!
I'm an assistant professor at my college's Late Renaissance/Early Baroque Music Theory class. This channel is such an amazing resource, I'll recommend it to our students.
Thanks for everything Elam. For the music and for the videos of course. Cheers from Colombia!
I enjoy listening to early music (mostly polyphony) but know very little about musical theory. I really appreciate how you explained what musica ficta is and why performers needed to make modifications to the music. (I also think it's hilarious that the reason boils down to "the composers didn't want to note their sharps and flats and argued that it would make a fun little puzzle for the performers.")
This channel seems to have an uncanny ability to know which articles I used to read in the Harvard dictionary of music sitting on the throne in the 90s.
I just discovered this channel and I am nerding out HARDCORE. SO glad this exists!
I recognise that ficta notes were used in your intro/outro music!
I'm not surprised why we don't deal with the idea of musica ficta when we start to learn common practice music. Although 16th-century polyphony was way more economical in resources than J.S. Bach's counterpoint, to make sense of this whole subject of music ficta is way more difficult than studying species counterpoint. I study music with the intention of composing, and I'm very curious and nerdy about what ever is related to sound, so I always have to balance myself in order to don't kill the creative mindset for a musicologist mindset. I'm not being sarcastic here. Musicologists provide outstanding material for any musician, things that composers and performers otherwise wouldn't of (the discovery of Partimento in the XXI century is a great example of it). It's just easy to get lost in so much information nowadays, when we have access to libraries, bookstores, and amazing internet content like this channel.
I'll keep dealing with musica ficta for a while since I'm into 16th century polyphonic studies, but from a composer mindset I think that I shouldn't bother with it too much. As long as I have good guidance from reliable sources, I will probably use material edited with flats and sharps above notation. As you mentioned in the video, in the end, its logic of use will meet counterpoint rules.
wonderfl work!!!!!!! Wonderful!!!!! i thank you so much!!!!! you are the best techer i never met
This is such a wonderful channel! Thank you! It is particularly interesting for me, as a classically trained professional musician fluent in 18th, 19th, 20th, and 21st century rules and styles to see and hear its ancestors-and begin to see the rules of 18th and 19th C harmony precipitate out of earlier conventions. You are a brilliant teacher and I am so grateful for these videos! Thank you!
One of the best channels for music nerds.
I just realised something: Greensleeves can fit very neatly (and is most often sung) over a passamezzo progression plus a romanesca progression!
What are these progressions?
Totally brilliant episode. Thanks so much for making it.
Grazie, come sempre!
I love all of your videos. Thank you, as always, for sharing with us!
Yet another fantastic video from this gem of a channel!
Finally some clear rules about musica ficta! Thank you :)
Always love and appreciate your videos so much! Thank you for such great content!
Thanks alot!!
Wonderful channel Elam!
Great videos! More, more... 😀
Love your videos! Thanks a lot
Estupenda clase, edición y contenidos. ¡Muchas gracias!
Thank you so much for this. It is much appreciated.
I'm really enjoying the night lighting :)
This is the highlight of my day!
What a spectacular video!
This is Amazing! Such a Great source of clear information. Thanks!
Very interesting and well done, as always...
You guys are just amazing ❤️
This is such a useful channel, I can’t thank you enough, Elam...
What a wonderful teacher you are. So well explained.
고맙습니다
Stamp of approval from Ficta Girl!
Oh shit, i have been looking for this Channel for years 💙
What a wonderful video😍
Easily one of my favorite channels on TH-cam.
Very interesting..as always..
Great as always Elam ❤️
Can't stop replaying 😍
Yesss thank you so much this is so helpful!!
Bravo! :D
Muito bom. Parabéns.
Grazie.
The quality of these videos is just stunning. Thank you so, so much. This is a benefit to mankind.
Great explanation!
Please keep giving us your knowledge, nom nom delicious early music theory
Very nice videos on this channel 😊
Hello from Croatia :)
Brilliant and very very very helpful video! Thanks, Elam. Sure I'll come back to this video a lot of times. Hello from Brazil. 😁
I really love your harpsichord.
Lute/Vihuela tabs in Spain basically prove that tritones, diminished chords, and augmented chords, were DESIRED, at least when transported to instruments, and even verbally advocated for (Bermudo). [at 23:29, that type of thing quite common in Fuenllana therefore, as well). Considering a guy like Morales that didn’t use the amount of fictas we see transported to tab, didn’t give his buddy Bermudo a hard time (Fuenllana did like 25 pieces of his or something with tons of ficta, but after Morales died), tells me it would have been a discussion where the final results were “cool that sounds good”. [Not “extreme taste” therefore]. But then again, I came across Lowinsky (Edward E., secret chromatic art), and it turns out, though he is not taken seriously now, considering he in fact does know what he is talking about, there might have been some value to DOUBLE interpretations of the scores. Meaning, in Church A, you don’t do the ficta, but with your friends around the campfire (or Church B, if you disagree with certain dogma), you deliberately do the ficta….like a secret code. Rendering all or MOST pieces of music to be MORE than they simply look on paper (two versions of the same pieces seems very exciting to me). I think Early Music Sources might do well to take some time with Lowinsky ideas and show the good and the bad there. I think Lowinsky might have been missing out by going a bit deeper into Spain composers, where perhaps the same thing was going on, but they actually WANT the tritones coming out vs, the modulations he suggests.
EMS is a channel made for me !!! Thank you so much for this !!!
Excelent! Great video :)
Very challenging. More viewings and playing the examples myself are needed.
again to this nice channel pleaase don't stop talking we need more
A small correction for a Latin word: the word for “beauty” in Latin is PULCHRITUDO (genitive PULCHRITUDINIS), not PULCHIRITUDO (PULCHIRITUDINIS), with a typographically erroneous transposition of the “R” and “I.”
As Benny Hill said, learning all the time! A specific topic - and so much information on anything else in the early music and composition. A huge thank you!
The best five pounds I ever spent was when I came across A History of Western Music by Donald Jay Grout and Claude V. Palisca in a charity shop. I've been using this wonderful channel to refresh my knowledge on areas and it has been such a great help in looking more in depth at areas that particularly interest or bemuse me. Fantastically helpful!
your videos are useful, I will use your videos for music composition classes as a historic composition guidance, many informations and terminology not used nowadays !
Yes, a video! It's been a bit :)
Yay you're back!!
If i need answer now I just visit the channel and I can sleep peacefully without any doubt on my mind! I really appreciate this nice work! Maybe this is the hardest and the best episode that you made! Thank you so much to share your knowledge! I hope that the number of views will grow!
Fantastic and informative video. My daughter is getting her licenciatura in music, and pulls her hair out in counterpoint. I have passed this video to her saying in your 25-minute video, I'm up to speed on her whole semester! HAHA!!! Thank you!
A piece where I had always doubts about the use of ficta notes is Josquin's "Preter rerum". I think at the beginning, in the 5th bar of bassus 1 for example, e-flat should not be applied, which however is common practice. I think Josquin would have wanted the e of the dorian mode. Later, in different context, e-flat is marked explicitely.
Do you have an opionion on this?
I think it's interesting that we speak about performers needing to _alter_ the written notes with musica ficta. A _fa_ note, the written E for example at 12:50, means the note Eb because there's a tritone. I think singing an E natural would be the alteration from the perspective of performers back then.
Interesting that the "bad" interval (tritone) between the alto (b flat) and soprano (e natural) in bar four, on the word "morte" in not altered by an e flat (as happens elsewhere). It would have produced perhaps the world's first Neapolitan sixth. Similarly in bar fourteen, the soprano has e natural (on a strong beat no less) on the "--ce" of "dolce", against the b flat in the alto on the syllable "pe--". Willaert does not seem to have altered the e natural to an e flat in his intablature.
Thank you for sharing with us all these super cool and informative videos, I've learnt a ton!
I'm writing my thesis on hexachord theory, could you tell me where I could find the depiction of the Guidonian hand you're using in this video? I cannot seem to find it anywhere...
As far as I have learned on this channel, the medieval music system was centered on modes and hexachords (and their mutations). I can't understand how the whole idea of chromatism could arise in such a system. Can you please explain when the first chromatic pieces began to be born, and from what theoretical foundations they derive? Thank you for your great channel!
11:58 Ohh!! So when people say “the original version had a natural B!” are wrong!! It was just different notation…
@23:17 the f# is for beauty, then the c# is for necessity
Just wondering if the 4th is considered a perfect interval here?
Gracias por los subtítulos en español!
Do you think Bernstein meant to write something implicitly sacrilegious when he composed "Maria" on the Devil's interval?
*hands musicians blank manuscript*
"You know what I intended you to play, right?"
11:56 필수로 사용하는 경우(푸른 옷소매) 14:00 종지에 사용됨 17:47 예시 1 24:14 예시 2
Thanks a lot, Elam Rotem, for this and all your videos which I follow with pleasure and which mostly are in pole position in the recommended bibliography for my students.
But here I have a question: In your discussion of musica ficta (specially towards the end of your video), you speak sometimes of discovering the intention of the composer. Does this really conform to the mentality of the time? Should we not rather imagine that the composer, faced with the question ficta or non-ficta, put himself on the same level as the performer? That he entrusted his music to a common taste and common knowledge, without claiming to have the solution ready? That the addition of alterations was considered the task of the performer, in the same way as the addition of dynamics, the choice of instruments etc. etc.?
What do you think?
Thanks Bettina! This is a good question. I think that some sensitive composers probably had an opinion concerning ficta in their pieces (in the same way that, for example, Caccini had an opinion of how to perform his songs), while some others had less conviction about it. I do agree with you, however, that it was accepted and common that performers did what they see fit according to their own taste.
I don't understand how you decide which note is fa and which is mi and how you alter between them.
12:06 In Greensleeves one may alter the B to B flat, as to avoid the F-B tritone, but this however creates a tritone between B flat and the next E, doesn´t it?
Generally speaking, there is indeed a problem: adding a Fa in order to avoid a "Fa contra Mi" you might create a new "Fa contra Mi". It's an old subject of discussion; in this video it is exposed from 3:46 on. But in the case of Greensleeves your ears (not your eyes) understand immediately that the F is on the beat and the E a passing note and that tritone with a passing note does not disturb.
I watched this video and now my head hurts 🤣
Gesualdo analysis please!!!! Hello from Serbia
I am sitting here. doing a paper on this at 1 in the morning and i regret all decisions that lead me to this
Regarding Greensleeves, would the B natural version also have been performed historically, or would it always have been considered incorrect?
As a teenager, I was taught the B natural version, with the explanation that it is a modal piece.
As presented in the video, there are several reasons to put a B flat in Greensleeves. How was it actually performed in all the historical instances we cannot know :)
you can be pretty sure it would be performed with a B flat, at least according to solmisation which was used by church musicians.
Check any Lute tabs, and better if you find more than one. I have noticed a trend to add sharps but NOT flats…sort of ironic and opposite to what are thought as the singing rules. I don’t yet know if this is because Lute players want to think, or started thinking, Vertically, or, they deliberately wanted to upset the church (or a secret code type thing, not really a sinful thing but more like, hey we are not in church now so lets do THIS!).
Is a final major chord applicable in all circumstances (including in the 16th century)? I hear increasingly more recordings of third & fourth generation Franco-Flemish polyphony that sometimes end with minor chords, and often claim that this is evidenced by contemporary intabulations. Sometimes the voice leading even seems to specifically prevent a final major chord. What do you think about this? :)
Cadences with a minor finalis is a special phenomenon of that specific flemish repertoire. If I'm not wrong it appears only in that limited period and is an exception to the more general rule.
@@EarlyMusicSources Ah I see, thanks Elam! Is this applicable to, say, Gombert's motets too... and how would one know when to choose a major or minor ending? Because of the text, or the mode?
@@benmaloney5434 I don't know of rules, but in some cases it's really obvious, for example, when the voice that is taking the third is leaping to it, so if you'll add a sharp it will force a an augmented or diminished melodic interval.
"There are just opinions and arguments." I guess those guys would have loved the internet.
Would the rules for using ficta also be used in the viola bastarda tradition?
As far as I understand, there are no different rules for different contexts.
Okay thank you 🙏
18:55 why can't we sharpen the fa as well, fixing the augmented 2nd?
We would need to see more of the music excerpt from earlier….most likely this melody might be “fixed” or part of a cantus firmus where you don’t want to alter it as it might change the mode or familiarity of the song itself. If not, you might be able to do this. Considering it is being held a long time, I suspect it is not gonna work. Usually ficta notes are used in fairly quick moving melodic phrases, not counting final cadences (Picardy thirds). Plus remember he extracted this example because it was an historical argument, negating a simple fix like that.
Not even intentional, but I watched this episode wearing my EMS guidonian hand t-shirt :)
Me too! I have it in yellow :)
Check out the owl!
Elam, you can also play the lute?!
No, I cannot play the lute, but I have many friends who can 😄
isn't it "Una nota super la semper est canendA fa" ? i mean because of the genus
I never really understood why a piece back then necessarily needed to end on a major chord...
Inspired by this, I've typeset the Verdelot in 3 versions!
From Verdelot's primo libro, with very conservative ficta/alterations: dfwviols.com/new/2018-12-16-01/
Willaert's intabulation (in Italian lute tab): dfwviols.com/new/2018-12-16-03/
A vocal score and parts retrofitted with the Willaert alterations, marked in red as per your video: dfwviols.com/new/2018-12-16-02/
I think I may make a project of doing the entire collection this way. Thank you for this great series!
Thank you so much! I'll add it to the footnotes page
11:20 "In Latin it sounds better" heheheheh
When did the tritono start to be accepted, and how did we get to the baroque (Vivaldi, Bach...) from here? Did something special happen?
Yes, Cacini, Monteverdi and Corelli happened, amongst many many others. All three can also be considered baroque btw.
@@rfv618 Ok, but who decided at one point: "ok, we can use the dim 5th, as long as we resolve it". It's a long way from: "we should burn at the stake whoever writes that interval"
In the early 17th-century Italian music one can already such bad intervals in melody. Famous example: the ritornello of the Prologue of Monteverdi's Orfeo, in the last bar of the first violin, there is a clear contour of a diminished fifth - Bb E)
@@EarlyMusicSources Thug life move from Claudio :D Thanks, love the channel btw
@@EarlyMusicSources there are uses of diminished fifth in lute music of 16th century as well. it can be found in some fantasias by Giovanni Maria da Crema, some dances by Gorzanis etc. (just to name a few from the top of my head, there are many). By studying it, one finds that it is not due to the error in printing, but in fact a intentional musical statement. I believe it is important not to forget about lute composers, the sheer quantity, and of course the quality, of books and compositions for lute are not to be ignored. I presume the problem is in the fact it is written in tabulatures, so it gets glanced over sometimes. However you write it, by notes or tabulatures, it is still counterpoint, and the diminished fifth was used. Thank You guys so much for this brilliant channel, I would love to see You tackle the subject of prima and seconda prattica in the future.
por favor in spanish!!
Estoy preparando subtítulos en castellano.
the poor man wil end bald in some years