Dune Lore: The Worlds on The Edge of The Empire, Tleilax & IX
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- If you haven’t seen my previous videos on the Ixians and the Tleilaxu then you can find them in a playlist in the description of this video. In this video, we will discuss some of the ideas and philosophies that Frank Herbert attempted to explore with his creation of these two groups. To understand we have to go back thousands of years in the Dune Universe’s Timeline.
In the 10,000 years prior to the opening of Dune humankind had for the large part maintained the basic tenants of the Butlerian Jihad. Open use of computing technology carried significant social and legal consequences. The official punishment for those found to be in possession of, or to have constructed such technology is death. As a result various groups formed throughout the empire. New technologies were created to replace the jobs once done by AI. The most well-known and significant of these technological innovators in the Dune series are of course the Tleilaxu also known as the Bene Tleilax and the Ixians. Both groups blur the lines of what is generally thought to be accepted based on the teachings of the orange catholic bible, which came about after the Butlerian Jihad and has had significant influence over the course of humanity since. It stated “Thou Shalt Not Make a Machine in the Likeness of The Human mind” among other things.
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Paul: I will destroy the Guild by destroying the spice.
Tleilax: We will destroy the Guild by creating more spice.
@Fubar AlAlkbar IX: Nah we will do you one better. We will make ships that do not require one of their navigators. We will take out their monopoly on space travel in one move.
@@stevengreen9536 The Ixians did produce space ships that did not require Navigators. but the Guild sabotaged them so that no one would trust them.
@@RoomersToTheContrary Well in the books it seems the navigators wasted their time anyway. 😛
@@RoomersToTheContrary Leto 2 made sure humanity will never need spice to survive again
None of humans who returned cared much for the guild , they all used tech to navigate
@@cedriceric9730Spice is a metaphor, but not the central theme of Dune. Arrakis comes from the Arab word الراقص ar-rāqiṣ, meaning "the dancer," originally a name for the star Mu Draconis. Dune is essentially about time travel as the interaction and transformation of information from the past, present, and future. The Tleilaxu are virtually immortal as they create gholas of themselves that are reawakened with their memories whenever the old body dies. So no need for spice to extend life.
The hunter-seeker Paul defeated in the first book was not AI, it was controlled remotely by a Harkonnen agent they found later.
@@r3l4x69 Indeed, and the Baron even expected the hunter seeker to fail. It’s main purpose was to shake up Hawat, and make him doubt himself. A feint within a feint, really.
The agent sets the hunter-seeker in play but once initiated it acts independently or semi independently.
@@stevenredpath9332It's literally remote controlled. It is specifically stated in the book that the operator had to be VERY close to control it. Hence why they found a Harkonnen agent literally sealed up in a wall near Paul's quarters. The hunter seeker's weakness was that the operator could only truly see physical movement. Not thermal imaging, or biometric readings. Just a simple readout showing movement in a small area.
There are no autonomous machines whatsoever in the Herbert Dune-iverse.
True
@@stevenredpath9332 It's stated in the book that the camera the operator used to steer it was partly occluded by the hunter-seeker's suspensor field.
I first read Dune in grade school, I'm 55 and have been hooked all my life. I love your analysis!
The Ixians and the Tleilaxu are always the more interesting parties in Dune I noticed that they were frequently mentioned in Dune fan fiction that was kicking around a few years back some of it was actually not too bad. The Ixian stuff tended towards cyberpunk whilst the Tleilaxu stories were more body horror stories.
They're "more interesting" because they're the only non-human factions. Navigators and Mentats toe the line, but these two are deviants that are becoming kind of alien. The whole point of the series is to explore what it means to be human, how we shape our environment, how that environment shapes out conflicts, etc.
The ixians are clan skryre while the tleilaxu are clan moulder lol
The Dune series has so many interesting facets to its universe. I love all the factions and the combination of themes.
After reading it, I changed so much about how I see and live life!
People often overlook "thou shalt not disfigure the soul" for "thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind". The tleilaxu and xiians chose their own heresies.
Excellent point
The hunter seeker in the first book was controlled manually, from what I recall.
Interestingly enough, it is the Ixian and Tleilaxu technology that takes over in the last book. An Ixian no-ship becomes a last stand of humanity and Tleilaxu face-dancers turn out to be mysterious omnipotent, transdimensional beings.
That episode of Star Trek is one of my favorites, btw.
Every episode blows my mind. This is arguably the most amazing and well fleshed out universe in fiction, presented and explained beautifully.
Crazy how deep the lore is with Dune. Its on par with LOTR.
40K even
@@thesorrow4664 40k is nowhere near Dune and LOTR, they are way more sophisticated and innovative, even genre-defining.
Dune easily surpasses LOTR.
Interestingly, Arthur C. Clarke had exactly the same opinion. In his own words: "It (Dune) is unique. I know nothing comparable to it, other than the Lord Of The Rings".
@LakenAnderson LOTR and Dune are better than 40k, but saying that 40k lore is shit... With all due respect you are a little bit delusional
I hope the new Dune movie is a hit. I’d love to see all of Herbert’s books done.
Even if they went a Game of Thrones route.
Someone, plz just make it happen
Well if they went the GoT route, they’d start off great then get sort of weird, but in the end it’d be rushed and unfulfilling.
@@bushmaster6894 You just need to know when to exit - given, it is hard to know that in advance. At least a hoped for a 'good' ending in GoT until the first episode of S8... but then again I hate to leave series open just because the directors are assholes.
I don't think book 4+ can be adapted into film or at least not for a big audience it is way to trippy
@@mrnice4434 They surely could... but not one single person would give a budget for them in Hollywood, because they are as you said not for the broad audence and thus wont ever pay back any budget even if the budget would be less than $50... sadly.
The books kinda got the Game of thrones route, with the later addition being bad fanfictions with an official stamp on it...
I don't think it will be good, i don't think you can adapt Dune to a film successfully
I love seeing new Quinn videos! 2021 is starting off well
Just wanted to say how much I enjoy your videos. As a long time sci-fi/fantasy reader who has read the original Dune series multiple times I still learn so much from watching your videos. Your attention to detail and thoroughness of your research is amazing. Keep it up. I need to see if you've talked about the Hyperion series. That was always of favorite.
You've inspired me to re-read the series.
Interesting, in the Duneverse considering how space travel works you really wouldn't have a geographic shape to the Empire. It wouldn't really have a core, and fringe worlds, and borders like most galactic empires. The Guild just jumps where ever they want so you mainly just have frequently traveled planets, and non frequently traveled planets. The frequently traveled ones would feel like 'core' worlds and the non frequently traveled ones would feel like 'fringe' worlds, even though they could be right next to each other.
I think you could argue that spice-based foldspace travel night only be attainable for the very wealthy. Poorer groups works still need to travel conventionally.
Between the David Lynch film, the six core novels and Willis McNelly's Dune Encyclopedia, I've never been entirely clear as to whether the FTL travel in Dune is an instantaneous jump (the Lynch film, certain mentions in the books) or a translation through all places in between along a safely mapped out route. Clearly from the fact that we have a Scattering, the old empire had its astrographic boundaries.
@@Ensign_Cthulhu I'm with you on that! From the books I imagine that it is kind of both, like they have to travel a route through space because dodging asteroids and stars, yet the journey along that route seems nigh instantaneous. Unfortunately I really, really liked the way the Lynch movie portrayed it better as a basically a spice derived psychic jump power that pulls the whole ship, I find that much more interesting and fits in perfectly with the unknown powers of the spice.
It is basically instant. The ships use holtzman fields to bend and fold space. The navigators are needed to calculate how you need to fold and bend space. Otherwise you could just pop out anywhere which happens
Btw the thinking machines areny ixian I do not get where he gets thats from. Its the old thinking machines returning. It is basically spelled out in the series in several books. Mankind must become more than a machine
@@aafree6221 Interesting, when I look at it that way I see the Navigator's prescience less like dodging asteroids and stars, and more like doing a complicated math problem then looking into the future to see if you got it right, if you did then you enter it into the machine and hit the button.
I'm currently listening to the german Dune Audiobooks and I have to admit that I enjoy your videos more than the books ...
Dune in german was outlawed during the jihad. Don't answer your door
Was just wondering when you were going to continue with the Dune lore. Now I’m happy 😊
Finally! Some good ol' Quinn's Ideas!
The pursuit of technology has lot of similarities to the pursuit of power. Left unchecked it can consume you, both figuratively and literally. Abandon it, and soon you will fall victim to those that haven't. And be in turn consumed by them. What is the proper way then? Often, not even the Wise can tell...
pusuit of technology is literally pursuit of power. pursuit of money, pursuit of superior design, superior advantage.
@@JackJackKcajify not necessarily so. Pursuit of technology can be (like pursuit of knowledge) for its own sake. And just as fanatical and single minded, without any pragmaticism in mind.
The third way is to exit the Game - take a Heighliner to Tupile or another world outside the Imperium.
You really have a talent for narration.
He's been doing it for a long time as well.
It is indeed how we use technology that can lead to irreversible destruction...
HEY ALEXA ORDER ME SOME STEAMPUNK SWIMMING GOGGLES
WWI aviator goggles is what you are really looking for
Hey man, i discovered your channel recently and really love it. Videos on Dune are really good. Keep it up! Much love from Halifax, Canada.
Love your presentations! These are so deep with content I need to watch a couple of times. Great narration, nice art choice, just really super! Thanks so much
Concerning the Tleilaxu, I think there are more "castes". The Masters were just a handful few. Below them you have Administrators, Labourers and Serfs.
I'd also add the fact that the Honoured Martres were not just descended from Fish Speakers and Bene Gesserit, but from Tleilaxu women (before they've undergone the chemical lobotomisation) as well.
I got to say thank you Quinn, you are my official go to Dune, and A Song of Ice and Fire let's not forget about that as well. But you are my go-to. I recently bought the six Dune books and I am currently a few chapters into the first.
I remember the movie and the first book back when I was in junior high, but when I saw you making videos it reignited my interest. So I just want to thank you for your time and effort you do amazing content and I'm always looking forward to a new video thank you very much sir
" (banter) many machines on ix ... new machines...(business) I see plans within plans... "
I like an evolved being who has little time for banter.
@@MrMusicbyMartin ...i am ....a dyer wolf, prey stalking , lethal prowler.
Of course, this presupposes we can agree as to what the right way IS. I'm a unapologetic Transhumanist - I want to change, to become more. I want to see six colors into the infra-red, hear radio waves, walk without a suit on the surface of the moon. These capabilities are highly unlikely to become possible in my lifetime, but that doesn't stop me working towards them.
But I perfectly understand that these ideas which enthrall me horrify some others. If there is to be a line between human and not, a point past which we do not go, who is to draw it? And how enforce it?
I'll paraphrase CS Lewis, what is important isn't the physical form or abilities, but the mind. In Out of the Silent Planet, a human scientist wants to spread humanity to Mars and eventually all other worlds. Exterminating or supplanting the intelligent life already there. When it is explained to him that humans would have to be extensively altered to comfortably live on those worlds he says he does not care about the shape of the body, only the mind. It is then explained to him that all intelligent life everywhere has the same type of mind, goals, feeling, spirit ect. At best he wants to commit fratricide on top of genocide.
@@kyle857 It's a fair point, and perfectly fits Lewis' philosophy. But is it practical? Can a being that can live comfortably on Mars as it is today and a human of earth truly have enough in common to make fellowship a possibility?
It isn't ridiculous to assume that your dream can come true, so I wish you a long life.
Bene Tleilax are my favourite Dune faction. I think.
Ix and Tleilax are so cool, I really wish we got to see more of them in the earlier books. It's gonna be years if ever until we see them in movie or tv show form. Probably never, sadly, with the whole HBO max thing.
Love these. Why i first subbed. All the great artwork and outlines
if you're doing lovecraftian horror,why not do Dracula next,it's gothic horror,something you'll love
I think Frankenstein would be something Quinn would really really love.
There is an episode of Babylon 5 with a similar premise to the star trek episode mentioned. Almost exactly the same actually haha
Yes, the concept has been explored a lot in science fiction and fantasy as there is something thought provoking and terrifying in man having a hand in his own destruction by making something in his own image, or in some ironic twist, wrecking his civilization by inventing something meant to save it that ends up being its bane. Look at all the real world weapon inventors that created something thinking it would be so terrible that it would end the lunacy of war, but all it did was make war even worse, like the person who inflicted "Keeping Up With the Kardashians" upon humanity...lol.
This was a great video. Thank you for your content & hard work. You are appreciated.
You got the STNG episode wrong. It wasn’t war that killed the civilization. It was arms trade. They created the perfect weapon system, programmed to demonstrate it’s capabilities until a sale was made. It didn’t stop until they were all gone. It took Picard to figure out what the creators didn’t!
Leto 2 said that without his interference the Ixians would already have created the prescient hunters. Perhaps Leto pushed this event back by redirecting their efforts towards the navigatorless ships, another form of prescient machines.
I'm just curious, I loved the ultimate guide to dune videos. Will you be making ones for the last three books?
Frank Herbert's vision is very current today when you regard the development of robots by companies such as Boston Dynamics and the development of AI-powered loitering killer drones as were recently used in the Nagorno-Karabach war. Will machines become our masters or will we stay on top? Herbert already thought of this in the 60s when computing was still primitive.
quality, thoughtful work.
Haha this guy is pretty funny. Thanks for the hardcore info on the Dune universe. I always enjoy your videos.
Quinn, could you do a segment about Jews in the Dune universe? They appear in the last two books and their existence is one of the interesting surprises of the later Dune lore.
IXian: the orange catholic Bible is more of a list of strongly worded suggestions rather than prescriptions from a certain point of view... you like hunter seekers right?
The OC Bible is a specific book authored and editored by the Commission of Ecumenical Translators. It follows the theme of different religions and creeds being mashed together in somewhat unlikely manner in the far future - the Zen-Sunni believers for instance seem to blend Zen Buddhism and Sunni Islam while the Orange Catholics would seem to be a mixture of the Protestant Orange orders and their traditional deadly enemies the Roman Catholics..
@@BenFrayle "...mashed together in somewhat unlikely manner..." I thought Zensunni a bit far out as well, but it does have precedent in our world with the Druze religion.
@@RobertWF42 Anything is possible given thousands of years and cultures being smashed together. Certain religious groups could band together as atheism (or agnosticism) became more popular, only to fall back into religion during the feudal era of the empire.
@@icarusfx there’s evidence religion (the all round idea not one in particular) is an evolutionary driver by virtue of it taking the behavior necessary to survive in a given area and making at the “Will of God “.
Brian Herbert explored this idea as he fleshed out Pardo in the House prequel trilogy, namely as he considered what would be necessary for the terraforming project to continue long after the first generation had died out.
Another example, and it’s scattered throughout the prequel portion of the saga is the evolution of beliefs of The Zensuni from prior to their enslavement to their flight to Dune and about a generation after (we see the entire ethnic group goal from pacifistic and unwilling to defend themselves to tribalistic and willing to kill for an insult).
Interestingly enough, immigration appears to also be both be a evolutionarily driver and connected to religion (although when you consider that you are literally leaving everything you know to go to a place you know nothing about in the hopes of something better, it’s understandable why religion would be attached to immigration), all this is to say:
Each world and certainly during the old empire would likely have its own religion started on the journey there (or shortly after arriving assuming that there was cryo-sleep) and likely a generation or two after arrival it would be a fully evolved system with region dependent sects occurring as needed.
I think the group that would have a degree of success when it came to spreading any religion beyond a world would be The Spacing Guild or any religion that lent itself to a merchant group that cause them to travel (regular immigration) between groups and worlds (over time it’s been adopted by trading partners)
All of this is to say: the fact a bunch of theologians hung out on ruined earth to come up with a “unified” religion was a worse idea than The ivory tower cogitators peace plan and it’s no wonder the crowd had a barbecue early on and why later Paul’s Jihad overturned it, it wasn’t grounded into The local environment or naturally evolved.
Murder is a sin and yet... we don't seem to mind it much at all. We punish it when it is convenient, we perform it when it is convenient. Only, in the latter case, we call it other names and paint it up in innocent seeming colors.
Why should we expect another people to hold another sin any more strictly than we hold murder?
The question is not "if we can make something, should we?" but rather "what can we do with what we have" (new technologies come, wether you chose to have them or not). I see this philosophical question more as something that asks: "do you want to be effective in goals that are individual and hence likely to be destructive for communities, or do you use that efficiency of your tools to counter others who are efficient, so that natural ballance bay be preserved."
Those are the two extreme dirctions I got inspired to see from Herbert's books.
I'm reading the first book now, but I'm already leaving the like and comment for Quinn.
I wish you would narrate the books
What I wanna know is if McDonalds and KFC survived thousands of years into the future and if there are several franchises still in operation on Ix and Tleilax?!? I'm sure after a hard day's work cloning up a batch of gholas, a Tleilaxu might wanna grab a Big Mac or a Bucket of the Colonel's Original Recipe?!? Perhaps they even serve up the local delicacy with a KFC twist- Kentucky Fried SLIG!
LMAO
I just finished Children of Dune and was wondering what videos of yours I can watch that won’t spoil anything from the next 3 books
It's very hard to spoil Frank Herberts Dune books. Even reading Frank Herberts Dune Books doesn't spoil them. Every time you re-read them you find something new, something different, another depth you hadn't seen before.
This will be great content for the Dune Pen and Paper RPG when its out - are you buying this Quinn? BEAUTIFUL Hardbacks.
Good video. Nice to see Organism again.
The theme is also explored by Philip K. Dick's novelette "Second Variety."
Great lore video, I have always been interested in IX.
Leto II: "Things we do without thinking - there's the real danger. Look at how long you walked across this desert without your face mask."
Karens and anti-maskers: *Hmmm. Interesting.*
We want Chapterhouse, it's true, but what about an Organism compilation video?
It really spoke to me when you said that only the weapons survived the two warring nations on an empty planet. I feel like that's extremely likely for earth if we're not careful. Eons down the line that exact scenario might ring true for us, after everything that we've been through, all they might find of us after we're gone.... are our weapons.
The Drukhari Haemonculus covens from Warhammer 40k remind me a lot of the tlailaxu.
The gentlemen from Nottingham seldom miss an opportunity to assimilate any half decent Sci Fi story or race into the 40K universe.
pictures of Worm Leto always remind me of Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now
Excellent video! Thank you Quinn!
Another awesome video!
Spot on analysis as per usual.
Love your videos. Good lockdown entertainment. Keep up the songs of spice and fire. 🏴🎱🐙
I swear I forgot about organism until I heard it's voice. That was hilarious
So just to play the opposite side of Leto's argument...
Yes the dangers of technology and what a humanity that uses it mindlessly are real...
BUT.
I would also argue, and I believe that Leto's argument with the Bene Gesserit about their foolish notion of controlling human destiny in God Emperor was along these lines, that change is inevitable and that those changes will inevitable lead humanity to branch and diverge into new forms and paths alien to humanity as we know it, and that was part of what Leto wanted.
A humanity that was to diverse to be killed off and is how evolution proper works,
Stagnation as Leto's golden path demonstrated is anathema and slow death, change is survival.
Bringing a smile and taking me away errytime!!!!!
Your videos are better than the original books!
2020 has been like Leto's Golden Path... I want out!
what about chapterhouse??
Nice analysis Q !
Love the quest in Cyberpunk which has an AI taxi company running itself splits into multiple personalities that are like it’s children and save them or destroy them. It felt great birthing new life forms or helping
no tea no shade....but the Chapterhouse video? I just finished and I'm going through it right now lol
Is that picture of Shaddam IV supposed to look like Tywin Lannister? Because that's always how I imagined him.
Nice upload! Keep it up!
Huge fan, keep it up buddy
since author was a bit Buddhist that would suggest that ghola takes memories from unconscious shared consciousness the same way in the last book the lord Harconen has his granddauther inside his head (still reading the last book) but basically everybody has access to everyone's memory but only "people" like Leto could get to that memory
The statement "Just because you can develop/invent something, should you?" is irrelevant. Invention and Development is inevitable. You can delay it, but it comes nonetheless and when it comes after being delayed, it will be in the hand of the "wrong" sort of people.
The phrase should be about using technology for specific purposes. You should develop and invent and take the initiative concerning the use of technologies. And where "dangerous" technologies are involved, the development of countering or healing technologies are essential. But that can only be done if you were active in the development / invention... which is again why you should not suppress the process.
Example, if the Americans (or Europeans in American service) did not develop "the bomb", someone else would have... and that someone else would have not been as "restrained" in its use (meaning dropping it on more than just two large cities).
This reasoning only really applies to military technology, for example extreme genetic manipulation could be a travesty no matter who invented it, and inventing it first does nothing to deter others from doing so.
it is not irrelevant. there is a fundamental difference between creation of a technology, and widespread acceptance and use of it. governments / companies can purchase technologies and squash them. technologies DO NOT always come. it depends on whos the competitor, what are the interests?
Restrained use? seems the USA was the only country in history to drop bombs on another nation. But thats beyond the scope of technology. Anyone can build a nuke. anyone can be a terrorist. doesnt mean everyone is going to become one. But yes, we should prepare for the inevitability, like you said.
@@JackJackKcajify : Which is why I put the term restrained in quotes.
Relatively speaking, had other countries (Germany, USSR, Japan, even France) developed the bomb first... and used it first, they would have dropped it on more than two cities.
The Luddites always think "We have gone too far". That's why they are Luddites. I'm with IX
Wow, "What do such machines do? They increase the number of things we can do without thinking. Things we do without thinking that is the real danger" that is pretty profound.
I love the new music!
Quinn, I have a question for you, about some of the intricacies of Dune. Something that has been bothering me...
It has been said, that Herbert's novel is meant to warn of charismatic leaders, that Paul is not an actual "chosen one" because the Mahdi prophecy was fake and planted by the Missionara Protectiva, and that for this reason the miniseries is a more faithful adaptation than the Lynch movie.
But isn't it true that Paul actually is the Kwisatz Haderach (or at least something quite close) - the first man to ever drink the Water of Life as foretold by the Bene Gesserit? Doesn't his unprecedented ability to see the future (and see what the Bene Gesserit cannot) make him very unique and special? In some way he's a "chosen one" after all - and does actually fulfill that Bene Gesserit prophecy (partially at least).
The Lynch movie makes Paul the actual chosen one of the Mahdi prophecy of the Fremen, which obviously is very wrong. But I feel the miniseries doesn't get Paul completely right either - as Paul is supposed to be that charismatic leader that's able to inspire religious fervor in others. In the book Paul does get increasingly disillusioned and somewhat bitter as he tries and fails to avert the Jihad he sees coming - but he originally starts out very genuine, honest and charismatic, while in the miniseries he feels a bit too much like the post-jihad Paul right from the start. He doesn't feel like charismatic leader material, like someone who'd have a lot of sway over others just by his force of personality. Truth be told, in the miniseries he a felt a bit of an entitled, cocky jerk to me. That doesn't match how I felt Paul was early on in the book.
I feel that in order to be that "warning of the charismatic leader", Paul is supposed to start out genuinely charismatic and sympathetic - someone not just the Fremen but the reader as well can actually believe in - someone who feels like true hero material, like an ideal leader. And then inevitably brings great pain and strife to the entire universe, despite having all the best intentions. To make the warning about charismatic leaders effective, the reader has to actually believe in Paul and his leadership qualities. Or am I completely off the track there?
Paul is a great person, and the Kwizah Haderach, but that still doesn't make him a good leader. He makes several mistakes in Dune. He is a hero, he can see into the past, but he still makes mistakes. That is the warning.
Every leader started off as not Charismatic. Its a skill you pick up over time. Paul is starting out like everyone has. Every president, Every civil leader.
The missionaria protectiva didn't invent the Zensuni/Fremen messiah. What the missionaria protectiva did was instill the idea that this messiah would be the non Fremen son of a Bene Gesserit. As far as we know, this was typical of the Bene Gesserit. They didn't invent the local planetary myths. They expanded and distorted them to protect themselves and promote their programme. The fact that Paul DID become the Mahdi was in fact the greatest BG mistake of all time. Also, the Dune saga is far more than a warning about "charismatic leaders". It's rather a warning and a reminder that actions have consequences, but also that even when you know of these consequences beforehand, you may still be unable to avoid them. Humans are the makers of their history but both an indifferent universe and their pack nature limits their degrees of freedom and range of choices. In a nutshell, Frank Herbert is deeper than most philosophical schools and their proclaimed political/social nirvanas.
@@archimedesnation But Paul actually **IS** "The Chosen One" of the BG's "Kwisatz Haderach Prophecy"?
@@hooby_9066 Yes and No. Yes because he had the abilities. No because he wasn't the BG emperor they wanted.
Yes tng season one arsenal of freedom. One of the season highlights
1:42 Wait, so they just named their planet after it's number? Like calling the Earth "Iii"!? Ha!
In first Dune, the Hunter Seeker is remote controlled device, not a computer.
I think the Tleilaxu and the Ixians are a variation on the main theme of Dune. Herbert wanted to explore what happens when society places a great deal of power and authority into the hands of a single political leader, which is what happens with Paul and Leto II. Tleilax and Ix are what happens when society does the same thing but with science and technology.
If a machine did all the effort of walking for you, eventually your muscles would atrophy. If a machine does the thinking for you, your mind will atrophy.
The one plot home I’ve never gotten past in the Dune series, is if Spice was the secret ingredient to everything in the galactic empire why would the Emperor let anyone besides himself or his family control the only source of that spice?
It’s just a stupid idea to put the most transparently corrupt and destructive house on Arakis.
Why would the Emperor do such a thing?
If I were to place a bet on who would end up in control of all Spice and its production it would be the spacer guild, without them nothing happens within the galaxy.....
You can’t move, trade, expand, settle, make war, collect taxes....without the guild.
The guild would be THE power in the galaxy.
That is until a race figures out how to navigate folded space without a spice enhanced guild pilot.
the balance of power in Dune is this - House Corrino is about the same military strength as all the other major houses together. Corrino have the throne, other houses fill in the landsraad. Major houses on one side, Corrino on the other side have equal shares in CHOAM that oversees all business in the Empire. It is very profitable for all parts. Guild is silent partner left alone for most part, as long as they provide transport when asked. Or decline transport when ordered, such as against one rebelling house that would think of trying something..
The stewardship of Arrakis is a blessing and burden that changes holders upon the Emperor's decision. Who controls the spice controls the universe. Except no one before Paul did actually take full control of spice. They all exploited as much as they thought was possible.
So being the governor of Arrakis certainly earns plus points in Emperor's eyes, if all goes well. But the Emperor can do as he pleases.
@@vine01 I understand all of that, but the power function and distribution is very “convenient “ for Herbert.
What I mean is the distribution of power among the houses should not be as balanced after centuries have past. I’m a history fan and humans are habitual, damned habitual....
Every house would have worked towards getting closer ties with the power house, by marriage and communal contracts of child “lending” which would lead to houses marriages among the children of all houses.
After only 1000 years, because of the length of a human life ( even one stretched out by Spice addiction) we would have one house, as the small number of houses would have more or less interbreed till they were one house.
The only way I see this balance happening is because of the religious culture of the Bene Jesuit.
They were the ones who controlled the house marriages and breading.
And could have been why the balance of power was as we find it in the books.
But this could have been bad for the religious leaders also... I’ll leave that for another discussion.
@@ianstradian well Bene Gesserit have their own interests in mind, they don't intend to show their cards until they have all the aces and trumps in hand. If someone outside of BG realized they hold this great power through females (arranged marriages and selective breeding) and that they infiltrated every corner of the Empire, they would long be done for. Leto II showed them.
The first part about "convenient" can arbitrarily be said about every piece of art that makes up its own world, mythos, stories etc. It's biased, if you allow that term, by the author, surely. For sake of the whole piece.
But Dune had this reason - more or less well explored in bhkja Dune Legends trilogy - that the Corrino house was to be the leading house in the Empire of humans.
One major plot point literally is that the Empire is so stubborn and adamant about not evolving further, just staying as is because it sort of works for the most part for the most people. edit: So Leto II again takes it to the extreme to show how bad it is.
You know, putting the credits for the used images at the button isn't that great of an idea on youtube. That's were TH-cam keeps it's video control thingies. Move the mouse even a bit and the text become a lot less readable.
Currently the upper left corner seems to be clear, and the only place untouched by youtubes general interface... well, baring the viewer of the user of the Stats for Nerds option.
Just like with our phones, we’ve become dependent on technology. I teach at a public school and kids don’t even spend their mental abilities to write a simple paper. They try to get away with using chat gpt or another AI. When the power goes out or their phone loses internet connection, they don’t even know what to do. It’s like the end of their world.
Covid19 is a perfect example of something that was done, but shouldn't have been.
A Hidden Theme that I've observed in the Dune book Series: Humanity vs their Creations
Before the events in Dune 1 book = humans vs the use or dependency of their created thinking machines, i.e. Butlerian Jihad.
Frank Herbert's Dune books 1 thru 4 = Humans vs the effects of a created or manipulated Messiahic / Charismatic leadership system, i.e. the rise of Paul Atreides as the Messiah, but later under his Imperial Reign, he became the Butcher of Trillions of lives in his Jihad. Then, there's the God Emperor whose reign's purpose is to help instill an instinct in humanity to never to trust a dogmatic, charismatic leader like him or anyone else's again.
In Frank Herbert's Heretics and Chapterhouse Dune = based on what can be implied from the text, the next conflict is between Humans vs bioengineered creations or in this case, the Advanced Face Dancers such as Daniel, Marty, and their ilk. Also, maybe, just maybe - add in the return of humans using a more advanced thinking machines (not including Omnius and Erasmus) that'll spell doom to the rest of humanity.
In my opinion the end result of this would be for humanity to encounter something this is unquestionably not human, while unquestionably came from humans.
I hope you're doing well, Quinn.
Thanks for keeping to the original source material and not mentioning anything about the sequels/prequels.
Watch the Babylon 5 Season 1episode: “Infection” for another potential point of downfall regarding humans/sentient beings via technology (bio-mechanical or not) that will adhere to it’s rules to such an extent that the machines will make the determination of a culture or society’s fate in a Nono-second. Really good episode! I highly recommend that series!
Organism was at DC storming the capital with his fellow trolls.
Hardie-Approved
Cheers for this
I see alot of people asking for Chapterhouse. Of all the Dune books, Chapterhouse is the one I read the most times.
When he does his review all you guys will have to use your own brain to review it proper. There's a lot of info to break down and it can go a few ways. Quinn will probably start off with a Clear Intro about this.
Be ready to think and suffer.
@Quinn's Ideas would you do a review of Parable of Sower/Parable of talents? I would love your thoughts and insights.
Organism antics and shenanigans ya-ho, ya-ho!
I was gonna comment something along those line and Organism did it for me.
Shadam Corrino looks like Charles Dance
Yes we should. The tool is not the will. And the will exists with or without the tool. If we are going to hurt one another no amount of controlling the environment will prevent that.
You limit the tool so you can damage control
The problem with the mindful use of technology is that being mindful of the positive and negative effects of technology, especially the subtle, long term effects, requires actually using the technology in a wide scale.
Lets do this 😊
Ya hya chouda!