Ix is the only place that looked at the Butlerian Jihad and thought "You know, maybe getting rid of all computers is kind of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater?"
@@randomcenturion7264it wasn't Skynet situation, Herbert was clear that those machines were used by some humans to enslave all the other humans. Getting rid of those machines was about taking crutch from humanity in order to learn to walk on its own, utilizing it's full potential much like you do when you take the learning wheels off of kid's bicycle, getting rid of the vulnerability that dependency on machines brings. Because someone has to create and maintain those machines, and if you can't live without them, that makes you dependent and subservient to those who control those machines. Current world is full of examples of this dependency and people are reduced as a result to lesser versions of themselves.
@@jakubsramek2127 And yet, they just swapped machines for Spice. Now they're entirely dependent on who controls the Spice. They traded one crutch for another.
Not in the way described in Terminator and the likes. The Butlerian Jihad was a rebellion against the the idea that Humanity was too attached to machines and technology as a whole. There was no robot uprising, it was just a lot of people with an almost religious hatred for AI, fighting other people who didn't see AI as a problem. There was no Man vs. Machine war, more like Man vs. Man with Machine.
I always liked Frank Herbert's Ix more than Brian Herbert's. Making Ix just another fiefdom makes the universe kind of samey. Frank Herbert's technocratic Ix also makes more sense considering the society's technological wonders.
I agree the technocracy is best in how it ensures Ix remains at the pointy end of tech development and didn't become stagnant like the great houses eventually become from time to time. Yet I do like how Brian "starts" Ix as the result of the work of a great house, much like how the USA was started by a monarchy, since the common identity, capital, discipline, and outcome focus to seed such an enterprise is most successfully controlled from a single source. Then having the Ixian technocracy take control as the intellectual enterprise out grew the ability for one house to manage, it just made sense to me for explaining the basic focus and unified identity the Ixians have maintained through thousands of years.
@@ultimoguerreiro82 Yep I totally agree, especially with Brian and Kevin's earlier books. And the pacing of Brian's stories is off, but I think he is finding his stride. After all there were discrepancies in Frank's early work also, before the stories we know and love now were polished into existence.
@@anydaynow01 Nothing wrong with fanficton. I like it, make my own. (I have one about Boromir and the retake of Western Osgiliath that´s quite ok). The problem is, Frank is dead. We could never know what he would develop, had he the time. It´s not like Christopher Tolkien or Brian Sanderson working on The Wheel of Time, where things were alreay set.
It is expected that Ixians would not give up their technological superiority and benefits that come from it. The dominance of the Space Guild due to an exaggerated decision to ban even computers, not only AIs, was likely to cause great dissatisfaction. I'd expect a black market to be created to allow computer assisted space travel and independence from the Space Guild. All would work under great risk, off course. It would be great to have a TV series explorer the many facets of the Dune universe.
@@DAVA653 I have not yet read the books but I expect that move to be known and tolerated for some reason. The idea of abolishing all more advanced computing system seems extreme and coming out of trauma/fear from the AI wars. Had good results in terms of evolution for the beings in the Dune universe but still not ideal and rational.
@@corujariousa Leto II, God Emperor, is the single most oppressive dictator in the history of the Dune universe, and nothing happened without his knowledge. His prescience allowed him to know everything that happened in his Known Universe. So anything that happened during his almost 4000 year reign happened ONLY because he allowed iI. Even his eventual death is widely accepted to only have happened because he allowed it as part of his Golden Path
I always got the impression from Frank's books and the Dune Encyclopedia that IX was ruled by an oligarchic, technocratic council. The inquisitors of IX were the agents and spokespeople of that council. That how I always imagined it.
Interesting interpretation. I got the feeling that it was democracy with maybe a constitutional Monarch. It's described as a confederation which is what Canada is and the UK too (in its own way.)
This is why I think Franks Version of Ixians was better, Being a more Free Society without the Rule of a Great House there Innovation would go on without end, But the way Brian Writes it, I highly doubt any Great House that Ruled over Ix would have allowed them to develop there Tech as far as they did by the time of Leo II.
In comic books there is a thing called ret-coning, or resetting the universe that the comic takes place in. Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson are doing their own ret-con. It is possible that Frank Herbert may have made a few of the same changes as Brian and Kevin (if he were alive to still continue the series), but I suspect he would have had more elegant explanations for the changes. After all, Frank Herbert talked about how unstable "the truth" is.
Yes, reading some of the real original Dune short stories and novellas in comparison to how Frank eventually combined them into the Dune novel as we know it was pretty eye opening. I agree with some of the changes Frank made but others I kind of liked how they were. For example Leto I survives and actually travels the desert with Paul, it was such a great father son bond building experience. I think it would have been easy to include Lady Jessica also and let her take her Dune novel path. Also the nature of the spice story was changed for the better. There were changes Frank wanted to make that Brian stumbled on in Frank's notes, and he made them for his father, but like you said Brian and Kevin's lack of experience in their first books made those changes quite rough around the edges.
What I found interesting about the Ixians and Bene Tleilax and Bene Geserit is how they rose from outsiders and subtle manipulators within the empire to the dominant forces within it by the time God Emperor of Dune finished and after. While most of the Great Houses collapsed and the ones that did survive were barley relevant and trying to make a comeback. Also, Heretics is interesting since it confirms that the House Harkkonen survived well into the God Emperor Days. Presumably the House didn't fall with the Baron. I don't consider the BH/KJA novels cannon.
Most of us who spend the time to read Herbert's original works, and appreciate them for what they truly are, understand that KJA/BH are just cash grabs capitalizing on the master's unfinished original works. If Herbert could have finished his final novel, his son wouldn't have had the freedom to insert his infantile ideas on the lore. Thankfully, more Dune fams I know than not, absolutely abhor BH's attempts to ride his father's coattails. It's truly sad that the man simply can't just accept he was not born with the same talent his father had. It's also a caution to legally protect your IPs from everyone if you're a successful creator with a family. If I write something that massively impacts whatever genre I'm writing in, I will absolutely ensure that my family and friends can't just start piggybacking off of my effort and creativity. You end up with the rights to my works? Well, the requirement is you don't get to release ANYTHING related to my works after I pass. Otherwise, the rights will fall to the next in line. Nobody is going to make a penny from MY passion after I pass away.
The houses require a bloodline to survive and those can die out easily enough. The organisation's require adherents to the cause and those can be found anywhere people are receptive to a message.
Excellent analysis of an interesting sub-culture in the expansive Dune universe. To me, there always seemed to be a very fine line trod by the Great House's and the empire in general about paying homage to the Butlerian ethos while seeking any and every advantage they could manage on the sly by contact with either Ix, Bene Theilax, or any one else who might provide some sort of advantage. For some reason, one detail that seems to stick with me is the moment during the expanded Navigator scene where the Navigator enters the palace and states that they have just folded space from the planet Ix . . . and comments something along the lines of " . . . many machines on Ix . . . " Just something that seems to stick with me . . . Thanks again for your continued insight into Frank Herbert's Universe or as you state above, the Duniverse.
The Navigators full comment was, "Many Machines on IX, new machines". The emperor, simply says, yes somewhat nervously, and that was that. The emporers shaky nerves may or (may not) have been related to the Navigators comment about IX and its machines. Or simply he was nervous about the visit and the reasons for it. Still, Guild Navigators dont strike me as the type to engage in small talk just to break the ice, so his comment may, or (may not), have had some deeper hidden meaning that is not expanded upon in the 1984 film.
@@champisthebunny6003 Yeah, at first I put that comment down as some sort of small talk, but you're right. I don't think that the Spacing Guild is very big on small talk. Later on, after rewatching the movie for the 7th or 8th time, I felt it there was more to it. Maybe a subplot they was never developed? Or a warning about the Ixians openly flaunting the rules against thinking machines? I can't recall if the comment was in the book or not, so can't say for certian, but it felt like it had more meaning behind it. 🤔
I LOVE nerding out with my coffee and watching your DUNE videos on NEW Years Day!!!!!! 😍😍😍 Thank You for your hard work putting these out... they are AMAZING!
Ah! At last, IX! I have awaited this part with grateful anticipation. I have not read much by Franks son Brian. Nor am I familiar with the Dune encylcopedia. Never the less I am greatly intrigued by this element in the Dune series. I have learned over the years it is very difficult, if not out and out impossible, to fill the shoes of our parents. The outside pressure to continue, and to expand upon, Frank Herberts work, was no doubt felt by his son Brian. Unfortunately for the ravenous fan the pressure to create genius is not at all the same as the genius which inspires art in the first place. These two are far, far apart. But we hope and trust Villeneuve will flesh out his interpretation with material from both sources. Nerd Cookie you have a genuine talent for educating us all on this immense subject. Again I thank you for your efforts. I hope Villeneuve succeeds beyond our expectations and brings as much of Frank Herberts work to the screen as possible in this lifetime. Dare I hope for Chapterhouse? I suggest you do at least one video, if not a short series of two or three, about what, and how, was the source of Herberts inspiration? I am of the opinion that the Spice Melange is a thinly veiled reference to LSD. Albeit LSD with the alleged life extension and intelligence increasing effects of Selegiline. ( Now prescribed for Parkinsons.) Where did Herbert get the idea for the Benne Gesserit? From the Benedictine and Jesuit orders? His Zen-Sunni and much of his works seems easy enough to place. But not all of it. ''Folding Space''? Speaks of a visionary thought. Anyway its just an idea. All the best.
In the original Dune short stories, before Frank wrote the novel, spice was more of negative narcotic than it is in his novel version where like you said it is kind of like LSD where it unlocks subconscious portions of one's mind, but just to the nth degree in Dune. Brian did a decent effort to explain how it went from a recreational drug to how certain individuals used it in insane quantities to really unlock what was possible with the human mind. Actually, concerning it's effects, remember the movie Limitless? It is more like that except much more powerful.
@@anydaynow01 I'm sorry. But I am having some difficulty following you. Was Brian talking about the Spice or LSD? One is a fictional drug. The other is real. If it was LSD Brian was referencing, how did he become such an expert? Neurochemistry is much more complex than rocket science. Any clues?
Yeah, there should have been no House ruling IX. I am convinced Frank Herbert wanted IX to not be ruled by any house as it is evident the Houses good or bad were repressing innovation or controlling it and IX was able to take advantage of this situation The great houses could control their worlds so long as there was a place like IX were they could still get the technology they needed. OK IX eventually got out of their control but that is all in the story. I only got to talk to grant Herbert for a couple of minutes back in 1984 after he presented a lecture, so, I can not be 100% certain he agrees. Still.
The social structure of the Dune universe is one of the most imaginative and complex in all of literature!! Ox is another great example of that, I want my “no ship”!! Happy new year!!
Hi John. Yes! Although Dune is often considered to be centred around planetary ecology I believe it is much more a commentary on society, politics and especially religious or ideological fanaticism. There were elements attempting to maintain a stable and safe order (the Emperor, the Bene Gesserit, even the Harkonnens) and those attempting to overturn the status quo for reasons of justice: what may seem the right and just action in isolation must always be considered in its entirety, most importantly consequences. Paul Atreides was the ostensible hero of the novel but his victory resulted in a Jihad responsible for countless billion deaths. His enemies were right to try to stop him after all.
@@jamesevans1890 I completely agree with your summation. The idea that system and organized social structure should be mistrusted is one of the most important lessons in Dune.🖖🏽
I was able to park my suspension of disbelief and enjoy all of Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson's collaborative works as supplemental materials to the story arc. It fills in lots of niches going back to the Butlerian Jihad (Harkonnen Jihad as Manion would of been a Harkonnen) and adds content to the major influences in the Duneverse and takes it to a pretty startling point where the circle is closed. (Duncan, Duncan, Duncan). Yes, you can be a purist and howl at the moon every time something contradicts a line out of Frank's work but that is too much like you were going to war over something in the Orange Catholic Bible (BTDT). With Frank's death all storytelling would of just stopped and left so much territory unexplored. At least Brian and Kevin are "trying" and giving us (mostly) decent content; Yes, a few books were snooze-fests and formulaic (The Duke of Calidan that i just finished was a yawn-fest).
Oh, yeah, they are certainly trying... and after over 20 years, have yet to succeed. I think there was one short story I didn't mind, and the one time they managed to create a character I liked, they killed him off in a gruesome, pointless way by the cackling, cartoonish villains they created.
Oh wow, and thanks for hearing my wish about an Ixian story! This was such a great comprehensive video to start off the new year with. I'm happy you brought up the disparity between the Brian and Frank stories, myself (and I know this is blasphemy) I like them both, in how it started out ruled by a royal house but eventually the technocrats took over, it's exactly how I would imagine such a society based on science and logic evolving its governing system especially when we start considering about the vast swaths of time the Dune story covers. Your discussing the lore involving the no-ship construction was definitely a bonus, I didn't expect you to dive that deep into the lore! Out of all the societies the Ixian is my favorite, and I hope Brian has a chance to explore their society more in the future. All in all I love this video, I'll definitely watch it again! I also like how you brought up their name origin. I always found it amusing how they called their home planet IX (9) and the rest of society just started calling it Ix as a result since perhaps they weren't aware of the ancient Roman numbering system.
Another awesome vid! For the longest time during his reign, Leto II all at once made almost flagrant use of, but also quietly feared (if he actually ~could~ feel such an emotion at that point) That the Ixians, sooner or later, would build the very thing that Leto was preparing Humanity for - sentient, self-improving hunter-killer machines, armed w/prescience. Even God-Emperor's have the bad habit of playing w/fire it seems. You'd think, after the Jihad (it's penalties, if nothing else!) the Ixians would know better... Of course the *real* irony was that thanks to his overly oppressive rule, groups such as the Tlielaxu, the Bene gesserit, and even members of his all female military, The Fish Speakers, now so VERY eager to explore uncharted space, were the ones to blunder into said "problem." (Not to mention, after some 1,400 years, it saw the rise of the Honored Matres, who were kind enough to bring said problem RIGHT to the now fractured empires' doorstep!) 1000/100. Again, awesome work. Many thanks, & Happy New Year.
Thanks excellent video. I prefer the idea that IX started out or soon fell under the suzerainty of a warlord (great house) that was intern overthrown by a technocracy. Brian Herbert is good at filling in gaps and creating origin stories and that one makes sense. However a furtive technocratic survivor of the jihad is a far more interesting idea than just another scheming family, so I much prefer no great house involvement post jihad.
I agree that Brian and Kevin are doing a great job with providing a good prequel story, they made a few mistakes but the patches have made the story better as a whole. It may be blasphemous to say but Frank's story wasn't perfect and Brian is doing a great job with going through his father's source material and giving us a fully fleshed out history. The Ixian story from Brian is a great example of this, and it wasn't until I started reading the prequels that I had a great appreciation of what the Ixians were doing and how the contributed to the Dune story as a whole!
@@anydaynow01 I agree Frank Herbert was a peerless cartographer but his later story lines could be very cold whereas Brian and Kevin's are more relatable (apologies to Kevin for leaving him out).
I always assumed that IX was ruled by a technocracy, with a sub-class of genetically altered population of workers and a ruling council of "technocrats". I could be wrong, but that was the impression I got from Herbert's writing.
You're thinking of the Tleilaxu. Ixians were human and did not alter themselves (and no, Rhombur did not exist except in the cartoon version of Dune known as Anything Brian Wrote).
@@Shan_Dalamani perhaps "altered" was too strong a word, but they were bred to be more docile and easier to control. The Tleilaxu were a far more extreme axample of this , you're right about that. Great series. I personally liked the last two books the best and really wish we'd gotten to see Herbert's kralizek. (I wasn't too crazy about the Brian/ Anderson books either).
@@carloscrecelius9597 Many years ago I ran across a fanfic version of Dune 7 on an old GeoCities site. What I read of it was excellent, and I wish I'd copied it. It was certainly more in line with what Frank would have written than what his son and KJA churned out.
from my understanding of what ive read on analysis of Frank Herberts work, Technology was not meant to be the focus of his books. He was looking at a universe that had tech but it was strictly and rigidly controlled. The impression i got from the first novel was that it was tightly regulated even on Ix. That being the case, the advancement lends another element to the story: the passage of time. its described in two very different ways in each of the novels. The "conflict" assumes permanence in the arrangement of Ix and not change over time.
The No-Ships never replaced the Spacing Guild's ships, and it is never made clear in the Frank Herbert books how they were navigated. We know most navigation systems built by the Ix still failed, and panic-jump by Idaho, where the universe was too alien to support humans, is the only direct insight we get on the dangers of folding space. Ultimately, the ships were always rare, always relics, and never in the hands of any guild. No-Ships moved slower as well, so I think it was to imply they had to make short jumps with large time lags, as that was the only way to get the safety desired without a navigator. Ultimately, the No-Ships were so rare, they could only be used by the few groups who survived the Golden Path, and they only were used to counter the Navigators and Sisters from being able to see you in the future, if you were in the ship during the time period they searched. Great get away ships. Just don't leave them, or you likely will be found by your powerful pursuers :p Ultimately, the Ixians were the God-Emperor's time capsule and rebels. They refused to follow the Jihad completely. They refused to be ruled by the Landsraad. They refused to be blackmailed by the power of CHOAM. They were always the tinkerers and dreamers, and every power in the Dune universe turned a blind eye to them to get the technology they needed to survive without being declared heretics themselves. Their confederacy worked, because they all had the one common cause: do not get crushed by the off-worlders. I have nothing kind to say about the works of Brian Herbert or Kevin Anderson, so I will let YOU read between those lines. I did not mind them finishing the series after Frank died, but I wish they could have followed the lore when they did. The Ixians are just another example in a long line of problems of why those two were not up to the task, never mind the confusion the rest of their pulp novels created after that. The guild would never trust a noble to be in power when they needed the equipment and technology for their spice refinement and ship technologies. Even a secret house would be a dead house, and who could sneak a ship past the guild into their most defended home? I'll take this video as yet another great reason to NEVER read another novel by Kevin J Anderson.
Totally different setting and context I know, but the Ix remind me of the Dwemer from Morrowind .. pursuing technological innovation to the point of obsession and eschewing the norms of the societies (or universe, in the case of the Ix!) around them. Anyway thanks for these videos, they are so interesting and so well made. I've just started listening to the Dune audiobook .. I'll wait 3 months til it comes out on DVD to see the film .. so all this info and background is incredibly useful :-)
I always viewed head of House Vernius as elector princes of Ix, like a CEO or chairman of the board of a corporation, and the technocrats as representatives of a literal technological aristocracy - that makes the most sense...
Yep, this sounds like a perfect analogy, even so far as where the CCP will start the organization and funding like a great house but eventually the tech company CEO's will end up with control of the enterprise!
@@anydaynow01 CCP has already infiltrated most of the big western tech companies. The CEOs are more than aware of it. Collaborators and traitors. The path to our real world future resembles in many ways what Herbert wrote. We must as a species shun our ever increasing dependency on tech and start developing human potential. Real world bene gesserit, mentat schools etc.
Her definition of "technocracy" sounds a lot like what we have today, something Eisenhower warned against (in addition to the "military industrial complex") in his farewell address.
@@dzod This is fantasy. Humans will never achieve any mental "powers" not even in the future. Civilizations evolve with their technology. Then they die and start over. There has never been super powerful mental humans - only humans pretending to be gods, god-emperors, or prophets, magic/sorcery users. And science and democracy has eliminated most of that. It's not going to change unless our civilization is destroyed and we start over. Then new gods but same science will happen. But Dune is pure fiction. That's it.
Please provide a consolidated list of your superb background music selections for your sci-fi discussions. I really enjoy the discussions, too, especially the ones about upcoming Dune movie.
Nerdy Day!!!! (And also a rainy day, indoors with creature comforts eating good food and under a blanket!!) Having a Nerdy Day makes it better, thank you!!
Thanks so much for these videos! I read the first book last year and haven't gotten through the second just because there were so many holes in my knowledge about what goes on in the book and it made it difficult to continue. These make me want to go back and start all over again.
@@NerdCookies Thanks! I actually switched to the audiobook for the second one and still wasn't able to get fully immersed, but it's definitely time to get back into it. I know some of the books have excerpts in the back with terminology, but I think Frank would've benefitted by writing some kind of preface at the beginning that explained what words meant and how they were pronounced. It took me a while to get through the first book just because I had trouble figuring out how to say some of the words and it really slowed down my reading.
One major flaw in the Dune story line is that on the one hand you have Butlerian Jihad strictures that strictly prohibit computers. Yet flying vehicles, and space craft exist that couldn't possibly have flown without the use of computers. Same goes for the targeting and guidance systems used on board military vessels. There is no way an interstellar society so advanced could have existed without computers.
I thought that but the commandment is no machine in the likeness of a human mind. So on that basis a targeting system is permissible. I guess the issue was AI.
@@nickporter574 how is a targeting system any different than a human picking targets with a rifle and firing at them. It does the exact same thing, only faster, more accurately and using slightly different weapons. They don't even have personal computers, iPads or Calculators in that world. That's why mentats are so sought after. Even one of those floating globe lights would need some sort of basic AI in order to not be flying into walls,...........or people.
If I write anything as insanely popular as Dune or the Lord of the Rings, I will put in my will that nothing I didn't write and sign as right is legitimate, but to give common creative rights to those who want to use it, except to profit from it.
Thank you for the great nerd-ucation, Elaine. I really enjoyed the background music you chose. Very relaxing. Maybe in a future video you can explore the lack of democracy in the Dune universe. Herbert made it clear that demagogues like Paul are the worst, yet he only allowed for monarchies and military dictatorships. Kind of a bummer, as I like living in a democracy. My guess is that Herbert was focused on genetics and evolution. Most primates species only have Alpha male-dominance hierarchies, and inter-tribal warfare. Just about all of human history has stuck with this program. So does the Dune-iverse. Humans are 98% genetically chimpanzee. Historically, democracy does not last very long. Your thoughts would be welcome.
In the emperor battle for dune the Ix where a subfaction you could recruit to supplement your army, their units where an invisible spider mine and a light hover tank that made holographic copies of your units to trick you enemies or to act as "meat" shields for your troops
Original narrative for me . I think I remember a passage in God emperor Leto 2nd says that ix have secret colonies or manufacturing worlds they keeped from everyone but the guild and he discovered them .
Yummy! More fresh baked Nerd Cookies! Ok Elaine, let me ask you a question: you state that the Ixians were a complex society etc, etc. I would ask wouldn't that be the Ixians are, or even more appropriately, the Ixians will be a complex society etc,etc. Seriously, I am not being serious at all. I'm just playing a little mind game with you.. hahaha. As always, this was a great video! Cheers and fair winds.
I hope all y'all have a wonderful 2021!!! Thank you for going over Ix. As far as retconning it... It really could have been done much worse and is good for what it is. I enjoyed the book and was able to really get into it. That said, compared to the other books the story felt... I don't know... More simplified? I guess. Just lacking in the complexity of the rest of the books.
Yes the contractions are many . At first I assumed the confederary was a group in the Nobel houses lead by ix , but the relationship with caladan make later opposition strange to me
@@anydaynow01 agreed. Yet I feel others could have done better. The biggest mistake was not doing it in Frank's style , trying to make it there own . Which is vanity and never never contradict existing canon they had plenty of room . And regardless of the plot they are terribly melodramatic writers
@@shanenolan8252 Yep. Everything has to be a soap opera with those two idiots. They suffer from "small-world syndrome" which means that of course Mohiam had to be Jessica's mother, rather than the relatively anonymous Bene Gesserit who actually was. These twits didn't understand the basic tenet that in a society such as the BG, you NEVER allow a Reverend Mother to raise, teach, train, and give orders to your own biological offspring, due to the risk of sentiment or even that dreaded emotion of "love" getting in the way. So there is no way Mohiam could be Jessica's mother. She's just a favorite student who disappointed her by refusing to obey orders.
Ixians were allies of House Atreides in the expanded Dune universe; the book that describes this alliance; I believe is the House Atreides, in this a young Leto is sent to study at Ix and view first hand the manufacturing of devices that could be used by the Atreides. But, as is explained, Leto and some members of House Verneus have to flee Ix because of the invasion by the Bene Tleilax. Also as part of the expanded information of House Atreides, the Daughter of the Ruler of Ix was married briefly to Leto and bore him a son. Even though his son died quite tragically; in Leto's grief, this ultimately led Jessica to bear Paul for Leto. In some ways Ix wasn't explained very well; the battle for Ix was described with great detail. But, many aspects of the culture on Ix was severely lacking. Also, the son of Ix was injured quite severely and became a human-cyborg. The story of Ix was mostly a cautionary tale in the Herbert Universe.
This story of Ix was Brian Herbert and KJA's made-up bullshit. There's no way that a cyborg would have been allowed to exist, even if the rest of it was true. Rhombur would have been declared anathema and destroyed, along with the rest of the planet (you think the Landsraad would have gone along with one planet being allowed to get away with this?).
Brian Herberts version on Ix is rather infuriating IMO. The whole sub plot with house vernius falling to the tlelaxu in the “House Of” series was SO corny and unnecessary. Carelessly undermines and erases his fathers work.
That's the idea. There's a scene in Paul of Dune that plainly states that everything that happened in Dune was nothing more than propaganda Irulan wrote at Paul's orders, and only the events of the Houses books were the "real" story. So yeah, the ungrateful son seeks to undermine and erase his father's literary legacy.
Isn't IX the ninth planet in it's system, like Roman numeral for "9"? Also, from the movie, it seemed like these "many... new machines" sounded like nanotech to me, and I thought that perhaps a new species of machine intelligence could have been derived from it. But if it were intelligent, you would have to make a distinction from that versus sentient. Like a very smart toaster, that made perfectly golden toast, every time.
I stopped reading brians books, the whole jihad series just felt like something you'd find in comic strips. I mean no disrespect, I couldn't write a novel to save me life (maybe), you just know the difference after reading. They're on different levels on a spectrum of novels?
I stopped reading them too. I dont mind Brian and KJA writing new books, I also dont mind that those books are not very good. What I hate about them is the absolute lack of respect they show to Frank's original work and the Cannon. The best description of the Jihad is found in the Dunce Encyclopedia. Frank wanted to write the Jihad book himself and had planned to co-write it with the author of the Dune encyclopedia after reading his work.
@@genmaicha.lapsang Yeah, I have to agree with how the tone of the books and depth of the philosophy is totally different. At the same time I do like his imagination and I feel just like with the Filoniverse he will find his stride since the books and stories are getting better as he gets more experience. Will Brian and Kevin ever get to Mando status? I'll keep reading to find out. Though I do wish he cut his teeth on another series or maybe some more Dune novellas that were carefully researched before handling his father's legacy.
@@anydaynow01 It's an interesting proposition for Brian Herbert to write on ongoing series. I think that he would do pretty good writing for Dark House and Image. They have some pretty out there series these days.
I read Kevin Anderson's flagship series, the Saga of Seven Suns, as I wanted to grasp how much of the final Dune books were from Frank's ideas, and how much as KJA. He writes perfectly fine prose, but it is all pulp fiction. I makes sense, coming from the Star Wars universe, but he has very linear thinking. It is a shame we never will know what Frank planned to do with his series, but these two individuals made it obvious that Frank never shared those plans with them. I used to think people geeking out about their prequels and how terrible were just being drama queens. All I can say is, hand me a tiara, I guess I'll have to sit with the rest of them. I'll read some Xanth or Lensmen novels of I want something light and lacking in consistent lore.
Glossu Rabban had been Na-Baron, Vladimir Harkonnen's designated heir, until he fell out of favor due to the loss of an Ixian no-ship the Baron had acquired.
When you consider the fact that the Dune franchise was a huge inspiration for the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40,000, Ix is pretty much the inspiration behind the Imperial subfaction, the Adeptus Mechanicus (though they take it a step further by making the Mechanicus a bunch of transhumanists who *worship* machines).
One of elements of Ixian technology was the hunter seekers. These tiny devices had ability to seek out a person for assassination with injection lethal poison through prescience. Only the Leto II forsaw how they endangered future of humanity. Are we heading down same path with development of miniature drones?
It's odd that these images show the structures of Ix on the surface of the planet since the books describe Ix as a subterranean society with wilderness all over the planet's surface .
![กี่หมื่นฟ้า | Your Sky Series EP.1 [1/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vLGjxFL6U_I/mqdefault.jpg)
Ix is the only place that looked at the Butlerian Jihad and thought "You know, maybe getting rid of all computers is kind of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater?"
Yeah. Sure, Skynet is bad but all this weird genecraft isn't a whole lot better.
@@randomcenturion7264it wasn't Skynet situation, Herbert was clear that those machines were used by some humans to enslave all the other humans. Getting rid of those machines was about taking crutch from humanity in order to learn to walk on its own, utilizing it's full potential much like you do when you take the learning wheels off of kid's bicycle, getting rid of the vulnerability that dependency on machines brings. Because someone has to create and maintain those machines, and if you can't live without them, that makes you dependent and subservient to those who control those machines. Current world is full of examples of this dependency and people are reduced as a result to lesser versions of themselves.
@@jakubsramek2127 And yet, they just swapped machines for Spice. Now they're entirely dependent on who controls the Spice. They traded one crutch for another.
@@randomcenturion7264thus is the golden path!
Everybody, "The Machines were the bane of mankind."
Ixians, "Let's make self evolving machines designed to kill humans!"
Life Imitates Art. :(
basically geth from mass effect ?😂
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be
"Let us do or stuff or the Universe will become a lot more dangerous..."
Not in the way described in Terminator and the likes.
The Butlerian Jihad was a rebellion against the the idea that Humanity was too attached to machines and technology as a whole. There was no robot uprising, it was just a lot of people with an almost religious hatred for AI, fighting other people who didn't see AI as a problem. There was no Man vs. Machine war, more like Man vs. Man with Machine.
I always liked Frank Herbert's Ix more than Brian Herbert's. Making Ix just another fiefdom makes the universe kind of samey. Frank Herbert's technocratic Ix also makes more sense considering the society's technological wonders.
Agreed
I tend to consider Brian's work "decent" fan fiction.
I agree the technocracy is best in how it ensures Ix remains at the pointy end of tech development and didn't become stagnant like the great houses eventually become from time to time. Yet I do like how Brian "starts" Ix as the result of the work of a great house, much like how the USA was started by a monarchy, since the common identity, capital, discipline, and outcome focus to seed such an enterprise is most successfully controlled from a single source. Then having the Ixian technocracy take control as the intellectual enterprise out grew the ability for one house to manage, it just made sense to me for explaining the basic focus and unified identity the Ixians have maintained through thousands of years.
@@ultimoguerreiro82 Yep I totally agree, especially with Brian and Kevin's earlier books. And the pacing of Brian's stories is off, but I think he is finding his stride. After all there were discrepancies in Frank's early work also, before the stories we know and love now were polished into existence.
@@anydaynow01 Nothing wrong with fanficton. I like it, make my own. (I have one about Boromir and the retake of Western Osgiliath that´s quite ok). The problem is, Frank is dead. We could never know what he would develop, had he the time. It´s not like Christopher Tolkien or Brian Sanderson working on The Wheel of Time, where things were alreay set.
It is expected that Ixians would not give up their technological superiority and benefits that come from it. The dominance of the Space Guild due to an exaggerated decision to ban even computers, not only AIs, was likely to cause great dissatisfaction. I'd expect a black market to be created to allow computer assisted space travel and independence from the Space Guild. All would work under great risk, off course. It would be great to have a TV series explorer the many facets of the Dune universe.
Iirc in god emperor the Ixians are secretly working on a navigation AI due to Letos spice rations.
@@DAVA653 I have not yet read the books but I expect that move to be known and tolerated for some reason. The idea of abolishing all more advanced computing system seems extreme and coming out of trauma/fear from the AI wars. Had good results in terms of evolution for the beings in the Dune universe but still not ideal and rational.
@@corujariousa Leto II, God Emperor, is the single most oppressive dictator in the history of the Dune universe, and nothing happened without his knowledge. His prescience allowed him to know everything that happened in his Known Universe. So anything that happened during his almost 4000 year reign happened ONLY because he allowed iI. Even his eventual death is widely accepted to only have happened because he allowed it as part of his Golden Path
"Many machines on Ix. Better than those on Richese."
Many new machines.
What was this referencing again? Golas?
Richese machines are useless and always broken: no value for money.
@@aalb1873 so Ix is like Sony and Richese is like Coby
The Emperors clueless response makes me laugh every time I watch it.
I’ve always been fascinated with what their world would look like on the big screen.
I always got the impression from Frank's books and the Dune Encyclopedia that IX was ruled by an oligarchic, technocratic council. The inquisitors of IX were the agents and spokespeople of that council. That how I always imagined it.
Interesting interpretation.
I got the feeling that it was democracy with maybe a constitutional Monarch. It's described as a confederation which is what Canada is and the UK too (in its own way.)
This is why I think Franks Version of Ixians was better, Being a more Free Society without the Rule of a Great House there Innovation would go on without end, But the way Brian Writes it, I highly doubt any Great House that Ruled over Ix would have allowed them to develop there Tech as far as they did by the time of Leo II.
In comic books there is a thing called ret-coning, or resetting the universe that the comic takes place in. Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson are doing their own ret-con. It is possible that Frank Herbert may have made a few of the same changes as Brian and Kevin (if he were alive to still continue the series), but I suspect he would have had more elegant explanations for the changes. After all, Frank Herbert talked about how unstable "the truth" is.
I'd been wondering what retcon meant for ages but was afraid to ask, thank you.
@@jimmywrangles Retroactive Continuity. Changing the previous continuity. You're welcome!
Yes, reading some of the real original Dune short stories and novellas in comparison to how Frank eventually combined them into the Dune novel as we know it was pretty eye opening. I agree with some of the changes Frank made but others I kind of liked how they were. For example Leto I survives and actually travels the desert with Paul, it was such a great father son bond building experience. I think it would have been easy to include Lady Jessica also and let her take her Dune novel path. Also the nature of the spice story was changed for the better. There were changes Frank wanted to make that Brian stumbled on in Frank's notes, and he made them for his father, but like you said Brian and Kevin's lack of experience in their first books made those changes quite rough around the edges.
Although I appreciated the information fleshed out in the Herbert/Anderson books I was always aware that Frank's voice was not there.
Well put.
What I found interesting about the Ixians and Bene Tleilax and Bene Geserit is how they rose from outsiders and subtle manipulators within the empire to the dominant forces within it by the time God Emperor of Dune finished and after.
While most of the Great Houses collapsed and the ones that did survive were barley relevant and trying to make a comeback.
Also, Heretics is interesting since it confirms that the House Harkkonen survived well into the God Emperor Days. Presumably the House didn't fall with the Baron.
I don't consider the BH/KJA novels cannon.
Giedi Prime survived. The Bene Gesserit ruled it.
Most of us who spend the time to read Herbert's original works, and appreciate them for what they truly are, understand that KJA/BH are just cash grabs capitalizing on the master's unfinished original works.
If Herbert could have finished his final novel, his son wouldn't have had the freedom to insert his infantile ideas on the lore.
Thankfully, more Dune fams I know than not, absolutely abhor BH's attempts to ride his father's coattails. It's truly sad that the man simply can't just accept he was not born with the same talent his father had.
It's also a caution to legally protect your IPs from everyone if you're a successful creator with a family.
If I write something that massively impacts whatever genre I'm writing in, I will absolutely ensure that my family and friends can't just start piggybacking off of my effort and creativity.
You end up with the rights to my works? Well, the requirement is you don't get to release ANYTHING related to my works after I pass. Otherwise, the rights will fall to the next in line. Nobody is going to make a penny from MY passion after I pass away.
The houses require a bloodline to survive and those can die out easily enough.
The organisation's require adherents to the cause and those can be found anywhere people are receptive to a message.
Excellent analysis of an interesting sub-culture in the expansive Dune universe. To me, there always seemed to be a very fine line trod by the Great House's and the empire in general about paying homage to the Butlerian ethos while seeking any and every advantage they could manage on the sly by contact with either Ix, Bene Theilax, or any one else who might provide some sort of advantage. For some reason, one detail that seems to stick with me is the moment during the expanded Navigator scene where the Navigator enters the palace and states that they have just folded space from the planet Ix . . . and comments something along the lines of " . . . many machines on Ix . . . " Just something that seems to stick with me . . . Thanks again for your continued insight into Frank Herbert's Universe or as you state above, the Duniverse.
The Navigators full comment was, "Many Machines on IX, new machines". The emperor, simply says, yes somewhat nervously, and that was that. The emporers shaky nerves may or (may not) have been related to the Navigators comment about IX and its machines. Or simply he was nervous about the visit and the reasons for it. Still, Guild Navigators dont strike me as the type to engage in small talk just to break the ice, so his comment may, or (may not), have had some deeper hidden meaning that is not expanded upon in the 1984 film.
@@champisthebunny6003 Well said. As for hidden meanings, there are always Plans within Plans within Plans . . .
@@alanloeper3953 - "Many Machines on IX, new machines. Better than those on Richesse.' ✌😁
@@champisthebunny6003 Yeah, at first I put that comment down as some sort of small talk, but you're right. I don't think that the Spacing Guild is very big on small talk.
Later on, after rewatching the movie for the 7th or 8th time, I felt it there was more to it. Maybe a subplot they was never developed? Or a warning about the Ixians openly flaunting the rules against thinking machines?
I can't recall if the comment was in the book or not, so can't say for certian, but it felt like it had more meaning behind it. 🤔
...I agree with you, something about that line, "many machines on Ix", for some reason it seems powerful and even foreboding. Good stuff.
I LOVE nerding out with my coffee and watching your DUNE videos on NEW Years Day!!!!!! 😍😍😍 Thank You for your hard work putting these out... they are AMAZING!
Thank you SO MUCH for the support! ❤
Ah! At last, IX! I have awaited this part with grateful anticipation. I have not read much by Franks son Brian. Nor am I familiar with the Dune encylcopedia. Never the less I am greatly intrigued by this element in the Dune series. I have learned over the years it is very difficult, if not out and out impossible, to fill the shoes of our parents. The outside pressure to continue, and to expand upon, Frank Herberts work, was no doubt felt by his son Brian. Unfortunately for the ravenous fan the pressure to create genius is not at all the same as the genius which inspires art in the first place. These two are far, far apart. But we hope and trust Villeneuve will flesh out his interpretation with material from both sources. Nerd Cookie you have a genuine talent for educating us all on this immense subject. Again I thank you for your efforts. I hope Villeneuve succeeds beyond our expectations and brings as much of Frank Herberts work to the screen as possible in this lifetime. Dare I hope for Chapterhouse? I suggest you do at least one video, if not a short series of two or three, about what, and how, was the source of Herberts inspiration? I am of the opinion that the Spice Melange is a thinly veiled reference to LSD. Albeit LSD with the alleged life extension and intelligence increasing effects of Selegiline. ( Now prescribed for Parkinsons.) Where did Herbert get the idea for the Benne Gesserit? From the Benedictine and Jesuit orders? His Zen-Sunni and much of his works seems easy enough to place. But not all of it. ''Folding Space''? Speaks of a visionary thought. Anyway its just an idea.
All the best.
In the original Dune short stories, before Frank wrote the novel, spice was more of negative narcotic than it is in his novel version where like you said it is kind of like LSD where it unlocks subconscious portions of one's mind, but just to the nth degree in Dune. Brian did a decent effort to explain how it went from a recreational drug to how certain individuals used it in insane quantities to really unlock what was possible with the human mind. Actually, concerning it's effects, remember the movie Limitless? It is more like that except much more powerful.
@@anydaynow01 I'm sorry. But I am having some difficulty following you.
Was Brian talking about the Spice or LSD? One is a fictional drug. The other is real. If it was LSD Brian was referencing, how did he become such an expert? Neurochemistry is much more complex than rocket science. Any clues?
You are being very generous in your assessment of Brian Herbert’s work.
Yeah, there should have been no House ruling IX. I am convinced Frank Herbert wanted IX to not be ruled by any house as it is evident the Houses good or bad were repressing innovation or controlling it and IX was able to take advantage of this situation The great houses could control their worlds so long as there was a place like IX were they could still get the technology they needed. OK IX eventually got out of their control but that is all in the story. I only got to talk to grant Herbert for a couple of minutes back in 1984 after he presented a lecture, so, I can not be 100% certain he agrees. Still.
The social structure of the Dune universe is one of the most imaginative and complex in all of literature!! Ox is another great example of that, I want my “no ship”!! Happy new year!!
Ix... I hate auto fill...😏
Ox is the agricultural planet 😄
@@NerdCookies 🤣
Hi John. Yes! Although Dune is often considered to be centred around planetary ecology I believe it is much more a commentary on society, politics and especially religious or ideological fanaticism. There were elements attempting to maintain a stable and safe order (the Emperor, the Bene Gesserit, even the Harkonnens) and those attempting to overturn the status quo for reasons of justice: what may seem the right and just action in isolation must always be considered in its entirety, most importantly consequences. Paul Atreides was the ostensible hero of the novel but his victory resulted in a Jihad responsible for countless billion deaths. His enemies were right to try to stop him after all.
@@jamesevans1890 I completely agree with your summation. The idea that system and organized social structure should be mistrusted is one of the most important lessons in Dune.🖖🏽
I was able to park my suspension of disbelief and enjoy all of Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson's collaborative works as supplemental materials to the story arc. It fills in lots of niches going back to the Butlerian Jihad (Harkonnen Jihad as Manion would of been a Harkonnen) and adds content to the major influences in the Duneverse and takes it to a pretty startling point where the circle is closed. (Duncan, Duncan, Duncan).
Yes, you can be a purist and howl at the moon every time something contradicts a line out of Frank's work but that is too much like you were going to war over something in the Orange Catholic Bible (BTDT). With Frank's death all storytelling would of just stopped and left so much territory unexplored. At least Brian and Kevin are "trying" and giving us (mostly) decent content; Yes, a few books were snooze-fests and formulaic (The Duke of Calidan that i just finished was a yawn-fest).
Oh, yeah, they are certainly trying... and after over 20 years, have yet to succeed. I think there was one short story I didn't mind, and the one time they managed to create a character I liked, they killed him off in a gruesome, pointless way by the cackling, cartoonish villains they created.
Oh wow, and thanks for hearing my wish about an Ixian story! This was such a great comprehensive video to start off the new year with. I'm happy you brought up the disparity between the Brian and Frank stories, myself (and I know this is blasphemy) I like them both, in how it started out ruled by a royal house but eventually the technocrats took over, it's exactly how I would imagine such a society based on science and logic evolving its governing system especially when we start considering about the vast swaths of time the Dune story covers. Your discussing the lore involving the no-ship construction was definitely a bonus, I didn't expect you to dive that deep into the lore! Out of all the societies the Ixian is my favorite, and I hope Brian has a chance to explore their society more in the future. All in all I love this video, I'll definitely watch it again!
I also like how you brought up their name origin. I always found it amusing how they called their home planet IX (9) and the rest of society just started calling it Ix as a result since perhaps they weren't aware of the ancient Roman numbering system.
Made by popular demand 😉
She does that, you make a seemingly innocent request and the next day she's made a video about it. It's like magic.
Another awesome vid! For the longest time during his reign, Leto II all at once made almost flagrant use of, but also quietly feared (if he actually ~could~ feel such an emotion at that point) That the Ixians, sooner or later, would build the very thing that Leto was preparing Humanity for - sentient, self-improving hunter-killer machines, armed w/prescience. Even God-Emperor's have the bad habit of playing w/fire it seems. You'd think, after the Jihad (it's penalties, if nothing else!) the Ixians would know better...
Of course the *real* irony was that thanks to his overly oppressive rule, groups such as the Tlielaxu, the Bene gesserit, and even members of his all female military, The Fish Speakers, now so VERY eager to explore uncharted space, were the ones to blunder into said "problem." (Not to mention, after some 1,400 years, it saw the rise of the Honored Matres, who were kind enough to bring said problem RIGHT to the now fractured empires' doorstep!)
1000/100. Again, awesome work. Many thanks, & Happy New Year.
Thanks excellent video. I prefer the idea that IX started out or soon fell under the suzerainty of a warlord (great house) that was intern overthrown by a technocracy. Brian Herbert is good at filling in gaps and creating origin stories and that one makes sense. However a furtive technocratic survivor of the jihad is a far more interesting idea than just another scheming family, so I much prefer no great house involvement post jihad.
I agree that Brian and Kevin are doing a great job with providing a good prequel story, they made a few mistakes but the patches have made the story better as a whole. It may be blasphemous to say but Frank's story wasn't perfect and Brian is doing a great job with going through his father's source material and giving us a fully fleshed out history. The Ixian story from Brian is a great example of this, and it wasn't until I started reading the prequels that I had a great appreciation of what the Ixians were doing and how the contributed to the Dune story as a whole!
@@anydaynow01 I agree Frank Herbert was a peerless cartographer but his later story lines could be very cold whereas Brian and Kevin's are more relatable (apologies to Kevin for leaving him out).
Thanks for the vid. I always considered the Ixians one of the most interesting elements in the Herbert Universe.
Thank you for the support!
Me too!
I thinkBrian and Kevin did an astounding Job with all theit additional mayerial!
I always assumed that IX was ruled by a technocracy, with a sub-class of genetically altered population of workers and a ruling council of "technocrats". I could be wrong, but that was the impression I got from Herbert's writing.
You're thinking of the Tleilaxu. Ixians were human and did not alter themselves (and no, Rhombur did not exist except in the cartoon version of Dune known as Anything Brian Wrote).
@@Shan_Dalamani perhaps "altered" was too strong a word, but they were bred to be more docile and easier to control. The Tleilaxu were a far more extreme axample of this , you're right about that. Great series. I personally liked the last two books the best and really wish we'd gotten to see Herbert's kralizek. (I wasn't too crazy about the Brian/ Anderson books either).
@@carloscrecelius9597 Many years ago I ran across a fanfic version of Dune 7 on an old GeoCities site. What I read of it was excellent, and I wish I'd copied it. It was certainly more in line with what Frank would have written than what his son and KJA churned out.
from my understanding of what ive read on analysis of Frank Herberts work, Technology was not meant to be the focus of his books. He was looking at a universe that had tech but it was strictly and rigidly controlled. The impression i got from the first novel was that it was tightly regulated even on Ix. That being the case, the advancement lends another element to the story: the passage of time. its described in two very different ways in each of the novels. The "conflict" assumes permanence in the arrangement of Ix and not change over time.
The No-Ships never replaced the Spacing Guild's ships, and it is never made clear in the Frank Herbert books how they were navigated. We know most navigation systems built by the Ix still failed, and panic-jump by Idaho, where the universe was too alien to support humans, is the only direct insight we get on the dangers of folding space. Ultimately, the ships were always rare, always relics, and never in the hands of any guild. No-Ships moved slower as well, so I think it was to imply they had to make short jumps with large time lags, as that was the only way to get the safety desired without a navigator. Ultimately, the No-Ships were so rare, they could only be used by the few groups who survived the Golden Path, and they only were used to counter the Navigators and Sisters from being able to see you in the future, if you were in the ship during the time period they searched. Great get away ships. Just don't leave them, or you likely will be found by your powerful pursuers :p
Ultimately, the Ixians were the God-Emperor's time capsule and rebels. They refused to follow the Jihad completely. They refused to be ruled by the Landsraad. They refused to be blackmailed by the power of CHOAM. They were always the tinkerers and dreamers, and every power in the Dune universe turned a blind eye to them to get the technology they needed to survive without being declared heretics themselves. Their confederacy worked, because they all had the one common cause: do not get crushed by the off-worlders. I have nothing kind to say about the works of Brian Herbert or Kevin Anderson, so I will let YOU read between those lines. I did not mind them finishing the series after Frank died, but I wish they could have followed the lore when they did. The Ixians are just another example in a long line of problems of why those two were not up to the task, never mind the confusion the rest of their pulp novels created after that.
The guild would never trust a noble to be in power when they needed the equipment and technology for their spice refinement and ship technologies. Even a secret house would be a dead house, and who could sneak a ship past the guild into their most defended home? I'll take this video as yet another great reason to NEVER read another novel by Kevin J Anderson.
So much of Ix was shrouded in mystery except the sheer volume of machines performing tasks which alway dazzled my imagination
When reading Frank Herbert's Dune books I just assumed IX might actually be secretly a cyborg run planet.
Which FH books is Iz explored?
@@zaprese None of them, unless you count the Hwi Noree subplot in God Emperor of Dune. JFC, what a boring character.
An Analysis of History: Muad'dib. [happy new year]
Favorite video... Just fascinating that someone researched this to this level...
Totally different setting and context I know, but the Ix remind me of the Dwemer from Morrowind .. pursuing technological innovation to the point of obsession and eschewing the norms of the societies (or universe, in the case of the Ix!) around them. Anyway thanks for these videos, they are so interesting and so well made. I've just started listening to the Dune audiobook .. I'll wait 3 months til it comes out on DVD to see the film .. so all this info and background is incredibly useful :-)
You n'wah
I always viewed head of House Vernius as elector princes of Ix, like a CEO or chairman of the board of a corporation, and the technocrats as representatives of a literal technological aristocracy - that makes the most sense...
Sounds like California tech companies and china found their own planet.
Yep, this sounds like a perfect analogy, even so far as where the CCP will start the organization and funding like a great house but eventually the tech company CEO's will end up with control of the enterprise!
@@anydaynow01 CCP has already infiltrated most of the big western tech companies. The CEOs are more than aware of it. Collaborators and traitors. The path to our real world future resembles in many ways what Herbert wrote. We must as a species shun our ever increasing dependency on tech and start developing human potential. Real world bene gesserit, mentat schools etc.
Her definition of "technocracy" sounds a lot like what we have today, something Eisenhower warned against (in addition to the "military industrial complex") in his farewell address.
California are the Richese, China is Ix. -D
@@dzod This is fantasy. Humans will never achieve any mental "powers" not even in the future. Civilizations evolve with their technology. Then they die and start over. There has never been super powerful mental humans - only humans pretending to be gods, god-emperors, or prophets, magic/sorcery users. And science and democracy has eliminated most of that. It's not going to change unless our civilization is destroyed and we start over. Then new gods but same science will happen. But Dune is pure fiction. That's it.
Please provide a consolidated list of your superb background music selections for your sci-fi discussions. I really enjoy the discussions, too, especially the ones about upcoming Dune movie.
I love the pics and artwork that go into these videos.
Your content is relaxing and well structured, nice job! Take my subscription!
Fascinating! I never knew any of that back story of Ix.
Nicely done!
Great episode. The lore must flow.
Tleilaxu = organic technology
Ixians = machines
The two factions hate eachother.
Ixians, Tleilaxu, nicely done. Way to dig deep.
I just folded space from Ix and boy are my arms tired.
Lmao, good one!
Your voice is very soothing and pleasant to hear. More of these videos, please.
Ooo ixians! Such a big question mark in my brain!
This videos are so great. Happy New Year! 🎉
Nerdy Day!!!! (And also a rainy day, indoors with creature comforts eating good food and under a blanket!!) Having a Nerdy Day makes it better, thank you!!
Thanks so much for these videos! I read the first book last year and haven't gotten through the second just because there were so many holes in my knowledge about what goes on in the book and it made it difficult to continue. These make me want to go back and start all over again.
I'm glad you enjoy the videos! I'd recommend trying the audio books as well. Those might be easier to digest.
@@NerdCookies Thanks! I actually switched to the audiobook for the second one and still wasn't able to get fully immersed, but it's definitely time to get back into it. I know some of the books have excerpts in the back with terminology, but I think Frank would've benefitted by writing some kind of preface at the beginning that explained what words meant and how they were pronounced. It took me a while to get through the first book just because I had trouble figuring out how to say some of the words and it really slowed down my reading.
@@NerdCookies Except that certain names aren't pronounced correctly.
One major flaw in the Dune story line is that on the one hand you have Butlerian Jihad strictures that strictly prohibit computers. Yet flying vehicles, and space craft exist that couldn't possibly have flown without the use of computers. Same goes for the targeting and guidance systems used on board military vessels. There is no way an interstellar society so advanced could have existed without computers.
I thought that but the commandment is no machine in the likeness of a human mind. So on that basis a targeting system is permissible. I guess the issue was AI.
@@nickporter574 how is a targeting system any different than a human picking targets with a rifle and firing at them. It does the exact same thing, only faster, more accurately and using slightly different weapons.
They don't even have personal computers, iPads or Calculators in that world. That's why mentats are so sought after.
Even one of those floating globe lights would need some sort of basic AI in order to not be flying into walls,...........or people.
Came here because of the board game expansion Dune Imperium Rise of Ix. Thanks for the lore overview!
God I fckn' LOVE this channel ! like oof that Intro her content! just awestruck!
👍
Her voice is magical. Thumbs up!
I am still very new the books not the original movie. And I really am enjoying your explanation videos.
If I write anything as insanely popular as Dune or the Lord of the Rings, I will put in my will that nothing I didn't write and sign as right is legitimate, but to give common creative rights to those who want to use it, except to profit from it.
Excellent discussion and explanation of Dune in great detail.Tks.
If Frank Herbert didn't write it, it didn't happen.
Unless it was part of the Encyclopedia, which FH approved.
Happy New year one and all. Our keeper of knowledge Elaine, great lore video, music lovely.
Thank you for the support!
As always thank you so very much for your videos.
Best wishes for the new year.
This was a great video to start the new year. Much thanks!
Thank you Script!
Happy New year! Thanks for all the great content
Happy New Year! Thanks for another great video!
Love the art that you used in this video
Thank you, this was wonderfully enlightening:)
Thank you for the great nerd-ucation, Elaine. I really enjoyed the background music you chose. Very relaxing. Maybe in a future video you can explore the lack of democracy in the Dune universe. Herbert made it clear that demagogues like Paul are the worst, yet he only allowed for monarchies and military dictatorships. Kind of a bummer, as I like living in a democracy. My guess is that Herbert was focused on genetics and evolution. Most primates species only have Alpha male-dominance hierarchies, and inter-tribal warfare. Just about all of human history has stuck with this program. So does the Dune-iverse. Humans are 98% genetically chimpanzee. Historically, democracy does not last very long. Your thoughts would be welcome.
In the emperor battle for dune the Ix where a subfaction you could recruit to supplement your army, their units where an invisible spider mine and a light hover tank that made holographic copies of your units to trick you enemies or to act as "meat" shields for your troops
Thanks for the video. Much appreciated!
Thank you for another Dune video Elaine. Happy New Year!
Thank you for your support!
Great art in this video!
Apply to Apple to be Siri’s replacement voice
Love this channel…. :) thank you (again) 🙏🏼
X is a very interesting culture in the Dune universe. They are the only faction that manage to act against the God-emperor and get away with it
They also succeeded. Hwi ultimately fulfilled her purpose.
Original narrative for me . I think I remember a passage in God emperor Leto 2nd says that ix have secret colonies or manufacturing worlds they keeped from everyone but the guild and he discovered them .
By the way Oriental is a type of rug not a peoples ....
The older I get, the more I like Dune. Herbert was brilliant amongst the brilliant. Stood head and shoulders above many others.
Yummy! More fresh baked Nerd Cookies!
Ok Elaine, let me ask you a question: you state that the Ixians were a complex society etc, etc. I would ask wouldn't that be the Ixians are, or even more appropriately, the Ixians will be a complex society etc,etc. Seriously, I am not being serious at all. I'm just playing a little mind game with you.. hahaha.
As always, this was a great video!
Cheers and fair winds.
I hope all y'all have a wonderful 2021!!!
Thank you for going over Ix. As far as retconning it... It really could have been done much worse and is good for what it is. I enjoyed the book and was able to really get into it. That said, compared to the other books the story felt... I don't know... More simplified? I guess. Just lacking in the complexity of the rest of the books.
Good point! Thanks for the support!
You have the most soothing voice. You need an 8 hour video that puts all your videos in one. I’d let you talk about Dune all night.
Yes the contractions are many . At first I assumed the confederary was a group in the Nobel houses lead by ix , but the relationship with caladan make later opposition strange to me
Yep with a world this complex it's really tough to grab the baton and keep the pace!
@@anydaynow01 agreed. Yet I feel others could have done better. The biggest mistake was not doing it in Frank's style , trying to make it there own . Which is vanity and never never contradict existing canon they had plenty of room . And regardless of the plot they are terribly melodramatic writers
@@shanenolan8252 Yep. Everything has to be a soap opera with those two idiots. They suffer from "small-world syndrome" which means that of course Mohiam had to be Jessica's mother, rather than the relatively anonymous Bene Gesserit who actually was. These twits didn't understand the basic tenet that in a society such as the BG, you NEVER allow a Reverend Mother to raise, teach, train, and give orders to your own biological offspring, due to the risk of sentiment or even that dreaded emotion of "love" getting in the way. So there is no way Mohiam could be Jessica's mother. She's just a favorite student who disappointed her by refusing to obey orders.
Thanks elaine. Happy new year
I preferred the Dune Encyclopedia as the auxiliary choice of background information. It is far more aligned with Frank Herbert’s vision.
The Bene Tlailax had taken over IX . HOUSE Vernius had control over IX until the suboids allowed the Tlelaxu to take over
Ixians were allies of House Atreides in the expanded Dune universe; the book that describes this alliance; I believe is the House Atreides, in this a young Leto is sent to study at Ix and view first hand the manufacturing of devices that could be used by the Atreides. But, as is explained, Leto and some members of House Verneus have to flee Ix because of the invasion by the Bene Tleilax. Also as part of the expanded information of House Atreides, the Daughter of the Ruler of Ix was married briefly to Leto and bore him a son. Even though his son died quite tragically; in Leto's grief, this ultimately led Jessica to bear Paul for Leto. In some ways Ix wasn't explained very well; the battle for Ix was described with great detail. But, many aspects of the culture on Ix was severely lacking. Also, the son of Ix was injured quite severely and became a human-cyborg. The story of Ix was mostly a cautionary tale in the Herbert Universe.
This story of Ix was Brian Herbert and KJA's made-up bullshit. There's no way that a cyborg would have been allowed to exist, even if the rest of it was true. Rhombur would have been declared anathema and destroyed, along with the rest of the planet (you think the Landsraad would have gone along with one planet being allowed to get away with this?).
Brian Herberts version on Ix is rather infuriating IMO. The whole sub plot with house vernius falling to the tlelaxu in the “House Of” series was SO corny and unnecessary. Carelessly undermines and erases his fathers work.
That's the idea. There's a scene in Paul of Dune that plainly states that everything that happened in Dune was nothing more than propaganda Irulan wrote at Paul's orders, and only the events of the Houses books were the "real" story.
So yeah, the ungrateful son seeks to undermine and erase his father's literary legacy.
Also, a Confederation is an organization which consists of a number of parties or groups united in an alliance or league.
Isn't IX the ninth planet in it's system, like Roman numeral for "9"?
Also, from the movie, it seemed like these "many... new machines" sounded like nanotech to me, and I thought that perhaps a new species of machine intelligence could have been derived from it. But if it were intelligent, you would have to make a distinction from that versus sentient. Like a very smart toaster, that made perfectly golden toast, every time.
The Butlerian Jihad started with the murder of Manion BUTLER (Butlerian) by the sentient machine Erasmus.
In the nuDune bullshit. None of which is true to the source material.
i love this channel.
👍🇺🇸
I stopped reading brians books, the whole jihad series just felt like something you'd find in comic strips. I mean no disrespect, I couldn't write a novel to save me life (maybe), you just know the difference after reading. They're on different levels on a spectrum of novels?
I stopped reading them too. I dont mind Brian and KJA writing new books, I also dont mind that those books are not very good. What I hate about them is the absolute lack of respect they show to Frank's original work and the Cannon. The best description of the Jihad is found in the Dunce Encyclopedia. Frank wanted to write the Jihad book himself and had planned to co-write it with the author of the Dune encyclopedia after reading his work.
I stopped reading those books as well. That said, I did like the Jihad series for what it was, sci-fi action novels. But is it, "Dune?" No it is not.
@@genmaicha.lapsang Yeah, I have to agree with how the tone of the books and depth of the philosophy is totally different. At the same time I do like his imagination and I feel just like with the Filoniverse he will find his stride since the books and stories are getting better as he gets more experience. Will Brian and Kevin ever get to Mando status? I'll keep reading to find out. Though I do wish he cut his teeth on another series or maybe some more Dune novellas that were carefully researched before handling his father's legacy.
@@anydaynow01
It's an interesting proposition for Brian Herbert to write on ongoing series. I think that he would do pretty good writing for Dark House and Image. They have some pretty out there series these days.
I read Kevin Anderson's flagship series, the Saga of Seven Suns, as I wanted to grasp how much of the final Dune books were from Frank's ideas, and how much as KJA. He writes perfectly fine prose, but it is all pulp fiction. I makes sense, coming from the Star Wars universe, but he has very linear thinking. It is a shame we never will know what Frank planned to do with his series, but these two individuals made it obvious that Frank never shared those plans with them. I used to think people geeking out about their prequels and how terrible were just being drama queens. All I can say is, hand me a tiara, I guess I'll have to sit with the rest of them. I'll read some Xanth or Lensmen novels of I want something light and lacking in consistent lore.
Frank Herbert predicted the Mechanicus
Glossu Rabban had been Na-Baron, Vladimir Harkonnen's designated heir, until he fell out of favor due to the loss of an Ixian no-ship the Baron had acquired.
When you consider the fact that the Dune franchise was a huge inspiration for the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40,000, Ix is pretty much the inspiration behind the Imperial subfaction, the Adeptus Mechanicus (though they take it a step further by making the Mechanicus a bunch of transhumanists who *worship* machines).
No ships...best probability computers. Reality engines
Yes
Fantastic. Thank you so much!
when the 9th planet is confirmed, we have to name it IX.
We already have a name for it. Pluto.
Great video
Very very well read.
Happy new year.
Great job :D
Ixians made my glasses.
LoL
Its's Planet CHYNAAA!
thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of the human mind!
What about a machine in the likeness of a mind of a cockroach?
One of elements of Ixian technology was the hunter seekers. These tiny devices had ability to seek out a person for assassination with injection lethal poison through prescience. Only the Leto II forsaw how they endangered future of humanity. Are we heading down same path with development of miniature drones?
Well Done.
In Dune part 1, the royal court wears Ix sight masks.
It's odd that these images show the structures of Ix on the surface of the planet since the books describe Ix as a subterranean society with wilderness all over the planet's surface .