What I have found in my 30 plus years of buying audio products is that to my ears the original recording quality matters more than my gear no matter what I throw at it. My suggestion is to listen to whatever recording you are interested in at the lowest bit rate etc and if it is pleasing to your ears than try a more expensive version and see what you think before going down the rabbit hole. You will find that no matter how much you spend on a recording on whatever it will never sound good if it didn't at the cheapest version.
I have the modi multibit and it’s phenomenal, I picked this unit after listening to snippets of many reviews, then admiring the company overall, I have this hooked up in two systems- high power Adcom 5500/JBL L-7’s , it’s sound is breathtaking with classical/ Copland or vocals of London Grammar, 2nd system is Nakamichi TA-4A same speakers, less power but better articulation, midrange clarity, airier high end, this DAC is fantastic, is the bifrost a tiny bit better, maybe, but at this price point it’s a no brainer, happy listening 👌🏻
I never thought about turning on nos for high res music to take the edge off. That’s a cool idea. I’ll have to try that. Thanks for comparing this with biifrost. Great stuff!
Thanks for the review. If you are considering a DAC and nothing but a DAC and want NOS R2R consider the Holo Audio Cyan 2. I got it delivered for about $1300 US and it’s excellent. Very detailed without any harshness in my listening experience. Rock on!
Thanks for the Schiit Modi+ review!! I was glad that you mentioned the Bifrost 2/64 as well, since that is one of my present considerations for a good but reasonably affordable unit. Thank you for the comparison of the two that I never thought I'd hear on a review channel. I thought, "Would I be overspending on the Bifrost unit?" I see that the answer would be "for me, no". With that then being the approximate price bracket, I am then also considering the competitive DACs from likes of Denafrips, Gustard, and Holo. Any thoughts? Thanks again, for the review. 😊🎶🎶🎶
Now I understand your comment on the Laiv Harmony, you were reviewing this one. If you listen to this tiny 16b chip I can imagine it has less detail. And can be a good combination and a nice listen. However, its hardly comparable to the Laiv discrete R2R that averages and adjusts every resistor step to obtain a much higher precision. And, it's not the lack of OS that erases details, it is the oversampling algorithm that 'fills in the blanks' by reimagining detail that is not in the recording to try to regenerate what was lost during recording 44kHz (or downsampling during mastering). In short: OS gives artificial detail. Thats the opposite of losing detail in NOS. Detail that isn't there. Both can be good to listen to. PS; love the T-Shirt!
A reconstruction filter cannot "(reimagine) detail that is not in the recording". That's not how they work. Artificial detail usually refers to distortion that makes music sound brighter, as if there is more in the music than there really is. A good example can be experienced with headphones that have significant internal reflections by damping them appropriately. NOS DACs both audible and visibly (on an oscilloscope) show distortion of audible frequencies. A good example is banjo music, as you can hear overtones of the notes distort with NOS DACs (or R2R DACs in NOS mode).
After a long search I ended up with a Rockna R2R and it will never leave (perhaps for the top model😊), the rest it gives and yes I know I miss the last bit off detail, but he ever been to a concert, our hobby already is way past real live music
I don’t think the Schiit Modi Multibit DACs (either of them) are R2R, or are they? As far as I know, they are using Analog Devices DSPs and DA ICs (the latter of which are “true” 16-bit in this case and 20-bit in the higher end models IIRC).
11:36 "...if you want something that won't distract you from work" man I relate to this. This is why I listen to my HD600 when working instead of my hifiman Arya during the day. I find the Arya too distracting if I am trying to send emails or do a software review.
Nice review...and useful too. As already many Years owner of Modi 3+ DAC I have concluded from yours words that Modi multibit R2R DAC MkII is closer in sound timber with Modi+ than the Modi multibit MkI. Have I concluded right ? Thank You in advance for yours sincere answer. Best regards.
Schiit should consider making a Dac with both types of chip in it, and a switch to change the architecture so that you can have a clean analytical sound, or a warm enjoyable sounds at the flick of a button. Delta sigma to r2r instantly. The mad scientists there could pull that off I think.
LOL! Cool! 😁👍 (Although, if it were up to me, I'd likely leave it permanently in their multibit switch position. I prefer organic/warm.) Happy listening! 😊🎶🎶
Now that’s weird, the same day that I hypothesise this idea, there is another video just been uploaded from the honest audiophile that is featuring a Dac with switchable Dac chips inside. Think they are both delta sigma but still, that was quite electrifying.
Does sound like a great idea. If you could fit it into something like a Jot, that'd be cool...but I suppose people would like to try it on a lot of different amps.
Audio-gd did this once, but not with a switch. The "Fun" had boards for different DACs you could swap in and out. This was something like 15 years ago though.
"There are no resistors accurate enough to do proper 16bit audio" I have watched countless videos about audio and have never heard anyone say this. To be clear, I am not very knowledgeable about electronics (I don't even partially understand the role of the resistor in audio equipment) and I don't doubt you are correct. What I mean is, 16bit audio has been around since at least the CD in the 1980s, so does this mean we have possibly not been hearing music at its best, most accurate form since then, depending on what equipment we used? Sorry for the silly question but I'm trying to understand the implications of your statement. To put it another way, we have been listening to digital music for over 40 years, yet we are still trying to perfect the hardware we use to do so. Is this accurate? Have we really not conquered digital audio yet?
The most accurate resistors available (as an individual device) have a precision of 1/10,000. 16-bit audio requires an accuracy of 1/65536. R2R DAC chips use very precise laser-trimmed resistors internally, including industrial versions. However, at around -120dB you run into the issue of the thermal noise of the electronics (Johnson noise). Analysers and other devices use various methods to go beyond this. Modern R2R DACs use multiple resistors, multiple ladders, and various methods of correction to overcome the limits of the resistors and switches. The Modi Multibit 2 has measurements showing that it'll resolve a -120dB signal, for example.
Great video, thanks! I've a question for anyone who feels they can answer. I have cheap ears and can't really hear the difference between a good AAC and FLAC. I'm curious about the Modi Multi-bit, but do you think I'll be able to hear the difference? Put another way: is the difference between Delta-Sigma and R2R starker or more subtle than the difference between a good AAC and FLAC? My stack: Computer -> Modi (2024 gen) -> Asgard 3 -> Sennheiser HD 560 S.
@@Currawong Thanks! Too bad for me, but on the bright side my ears are easy to please. I'm put my funds toward an EQ, where I know I can hear the changes.
@@brentjablonski3730 Bro, I'm a firm believer that most people can train themselves to discern audio, regardless of having easy-to-please ears or picky ones. It's all about exposure and the level of commitment. Like with every hobby or skill, hearing audio file format differences or audio equipment differences like DACs and amps requires a mix of conscious and subconscious brain training. With constant exposure, your ear/brain training eventually creates "maps" of how the recording or playback equipment presents all the attributes of audio, like "layering", "plankton", "soundstage", "grain", "depth", "warmth", "PRaT", etc. Those are terms that eventually became commonly agreed upon, individual contributions by people in the collective mind of audiophilia. Even though everyone hears differently, those attributes are real and to be encountered by everyone who dedicates time to listening to recordings. Once you hear them, which gets easier the more you compare equipment against each other, you learn how to identify them. Those are references to go back to, but even then, human memory can be flaky and unreliable, so you'll hear new stuff and have to make new mental baselines. Having said all this, get what piques your interest and compare away, but most important, HAVE FUN WHILE AT IT. Don't just leave it at "I have cheap ears" and miss out on the enjoyment of listening to equipment with music, which augments the experience of enjoying your favorite music. It's so much more than just listening to music with equipment. If you can't hear differences, keep at it and make mental notes without your preferences/bias interfering. Ear/brain training is cumulative. The more exposure, the easier it gets. Believe it, that you will be able to distinguish between good AAC and FLAC if you increase your perceptual resolution with training and exposure.
There’s a big chance that the recording you’re listening to was recorded with a delta sigma ADC and was mixed and mastered with a monitoring chain using delta sigma DACs.
What I have found in my 30 plus years of buying audio products is that to my ears the original recording quality matters more than my gear no matter what I throw at it. My suggestion is to listen to whatever recording you are interested in at the lowest bit rate etc and if it is pleasing to your ears than try a more expensive version and see what you think before going down the rabbit hole. You will find that no matter how much you spend on a recording on whatever it will never sound good if it didn't at the cheapest version.
Indeed al the bad quality on streaming service high res sounds like shit
@@razzman2987not only the streaming services but a lot of recordings are just bad. A good recording sound can sound pretty good even on Spotify.
I have the modi multibit and it’s phenomenal, I picked this unit after listening to snippets of many reviews, then admiring the company overall, I have this hooked up in two systems- high power Adcom 5500/JBL L-7’s , it’s sound is breathtaking with classical/ Copland or vocals of London Grammar, 2nd system is Nakamichi TA-4A same speakers, less power but better articulation, midrange clarity, airier high end, this DAC is fantastic, is the bifrost a tiny bit better, maybe, but at this price point it’s a no brainer, happy listening 👌🏻
I never thought about turning on nos for high res music to take the edge off. That’s a cool idea. I’ll have to try that. Thanks for comparing this with biifrost. Great stuff!
Turn on the non- ...?
It's the other way around. Turning off the oversampling removes artificial detail.
Thanks for the review. If you are considering a DAC and nothing but a DAC and want NOS R2R consider the Holo Audio Cyan 2. I got it delivered for about $1300 US and it’s excellent. Very detailed without any harshness in my listening experience. Rock on!
recommend a $1300 dac on a review for a $300 dac?
I agree that the Cyan2 sounds super for the money. Hopefully the midi multibit will give some of the same sound flavour
@@703elee A $300 is how it starts 😂 the Holo Cyan 2 is extremely reasonable for the performance it offers. A benchmark under $2000.
Some good practical audio architecture talk. Well done.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Great Review, Accurate and very informative. Thank You 👍
Thanks for the Schiit Modi+ review!! I was glad that you mentioned the Bifrost 2/64 as well, since that is one of my present considerations for a good but reasonably affordable unit. Thank you for the comparison of the two that I never thought I'd hear on a review channel. I thought, "Would I be overspending on the Bifrost unit?" I see that the answer would be "for me, no". With that then being the approximate price bracket, I am then also considering the competitive DACs from likes of Denafrips, Gustard, and Holo. Any thoughts? Thanks again, for the review. 😊🎶🎶🎶
Now I understand your comment on the Laiv Harmony, you were reviewing this one. If you listen to this tiny 16b chip I can imagine it has less detail. And can be a good combination and a nice listen.
However, its hardly comparable to the Laiv discrete R2R that averages and adjusts every resistor step to obtain a much higher precision.
And, it's not the lack of OS that erases details, it is the oversampling algorithm that 'fills in the blanks' by reimagining detail that is not in the recording to try to regenerate what was lost during recording 44kHz (or downsampling during mastering).
In short: OS gives artificial detail. Thats the opposite of losing detail in NOS. Detail that isn't there.
Both can be good to listen to.
PS; love the T-Shirt!
A reconstruction filter cannot "(reimagine) detail that is not in the recording". That's not how they work. Artificial detail usually refers to distortion that makes music sound brighter, as if there is more in the music than there really is. A good example can be experienced with headphones that have significant internal reflections by damping them appropriately.
NOS DACs both audible and visibly (on an oscilloscope) show distortion of audible frequencies. A good example is banjo music, as you can hear overtones of the notes distort with NOS DACs (or R2R DACs in NOS mode).
I have the Modi and I think it's awesome.
Thanks! I hope more Audiophiles can get familiar with this Dynamic... There is definitely an equilibrium at play musical playback
You're welcome!
Nice review! I keep both MM1 and MM2.
After a long search I ended up with a Rockna R2R and it will never leave (perhaps for the top model😊), the rest it gives and yes I know I miss the last bit off detail, but he ever been to a concert, our hobby already is way past real live music
Nice review. Thanks!
I don’t think the Schiit Modi Multibit DACs (either of them) are R2R, or are they? As far as I know, they are using Analog Devices DSPs and DA ICs (the latter of which are “true” 16-bit in this case and 20-bit in the higher end models IIRC).
11:36 "...if you want something that won't distract you from work" man I relate to this. This is why I listen to my HD600 when working instead of my hifiman Arya during the day. I find the Arya too distracting if I am trying to send emails or do a software review.
Nice review...and useful too.
As already many Years owner of Modi 3+ DAC
I have concluded from yours words that Modi multibit R2R DAC MkII is closer in sound timber with Modi+ than the Modi multibit MkI.
Have I concluded right ?
Thank You in advance for yours sincere answer.
Best regards.
Schiit has moved away from the slightly warm tonality of the (other than Yggdrasil) DACs, so I reckon you're right.
Schiit should consider making a Dac with both types of chip in it, and a switch to change the architecture so that you can have a clean analytical sound, or a warm enjoyable sounds at the flick of a button. Delta sigma to r2r instantly. The mad scientists there could pull that off I think.
LOL! Cool! 😁👍 (Although, if it were up to me, I'd likely leave it permanently in their multibit switch position. I prefer organic/warm.) Happy listening! 😊🎶🎶
Complicating hifi separates is a big no from me.
Now that’s weird, the same day that I hypothesise this idea, there is another video just been uploaded from the honest audiophile that is featuring a Dac with switchable Dac chips inside. Think they are both delta sigma but still, that was quite electrifying.
Does sound like a great idea. If you could fit it into something like a Jot, that'd be cool...but I suppose people would like to try it on a lot of different amps.
Audio-gd did this once, but not with a switch. The "Fun" had boards for different DACs you could swap in and out. This was something like 15 years ago though.
I want that job where I can isolate myself from coworkers and listen to music. My multibit is great and is an improvement over the original modius.
Fiio K11 R2R > Schiit Multibit 2
"There are no resistors accurate enough to do proper 16bit audio"
I have watched countless videos about audio and have never heard anyone say this. To be clear, I am not very knowledgeable about electronics (I don't even partially understand the role of the resistor in audio equipment) and I don't doubt you are correct. What I mean is, 16bit audio has been around since at least the CD in the 1980s, so does this mean we have possibly not been hearing music at its best, most accurate form since then, depending on what equipment we used? Sorry for the silly question but I'm trying to understand the implications of your statement.
To put it another way, we have been listening to digital music for over 40 years, yet we are still trying to perfect the hardware we use to do so. Is this accurate? Have we really not conquered digital audio yet?
The most accurate resistors available (as an individual device) have a precision of 1/10,000. 16-bit audio requires an accuracy of 1/65536. R2R DAC chips use very precise laser-trimmed resistors internally, including industrial versions. However, at around -120dB you run into the issue of the thermal noise of the electronics (Johnson noise). Analysers and other devices use various methods to go beyond this. Modern R2R DACs use multiple resistors, multiple ladders, and various methods of correction to overcome the limits of the resistors and switches. The Modi Multibit 2 has measurements showing that it'll resolve a -120dB signal, for example.
For an R2R design...which is not what's normally used
So is the idea to purposely lose detail, like tubes add harmonics? Further from source but more enjoyable?
Great video, thanks!
I've a question for anyone who feels they can answer.
I have cheap ears and can't really hear the difference between a good AAC and FLAC.
I'm curious about the Modi Multi-bit, but do you think I'll be able to hear the difference?
Put another way: is the difference between Delta-Sigma and R2R starker or more subtle than the difference between a good AAC and FLAC?
My stack: Computer -> Modi (2024 gen) -> Asgard 3 -> Sennheiser HD 560 S.
Probably not to be honest.
@@Currawong Thanks! Too bad for me, but on the bright side my ears are easy to please. I'm put my funds toward an EQ, where I know I can hear the changes.
At that basic level of gear, you won't get much more out of a DAC upgrade. I recommend that you stay with your current Modi DAC.
@@brentjablonski3730equalizerAPO is free and all you need
@@brentjablonski3730 Bro, I'm a firm believer that most people can train themselves to discern audio, regardless of having easy-to-please ears or picky ones. It's all about exposure and the level of commitment.
Like with every hobby or skill, hearing audio file format differences or audio equipment differences like DACs and amps requires a mix of conscious and subconscious brain training. With constant exposure, your ear/brain training eventually creates "maps" of how the recording or playback equipment presents all the attributes of audio, like "layering", "plankton", "soundstage", "grain", "depth", "warmth", "PRaT", etc.
Those are terms that eventually became commonly agreed upon, individual contributions by people in the collective mind of audiophilia. Even though everyone hears differently, those attributes are real and to be encountered by everyone who dedicates time to listening to recordings. Once you hear them, which gets easier the more you compare equipment against each other, you learn how to identify them.
Those are references to go back to, but even then, human memory can be flaky and unreliable, so you'll hear new stuff and have to make new mental baselines. Having said all this, get what piques your interest and compare away, but most important, HAVE FUN WHILE AT IT.
Don't just leave it at "I have cheap ears" and miss out on the enjoyment of listening to equipment with music, which augments the experience of enjoying your favorite music. It's so much more than just listening to music with equipment. If you can't hear differences, keep at it and make mental notes without your preferences/bias interfering. Ear/brain training is cumulative.
The more exposure, the easier it gets. Believe it, that you will be able to distinguish between good AAC and FLAC if you increase your perceptual resolution with training and exposure.
Discrete class A output stages? 😮
Not entirely discrete, as there's an opamp stage. Just the final output uses JFETs.
Because delta sigma just sound wrong
There’s a big chance that the recording you’re listening to was recorded with a delta sigma ADC and was mixed and mastered with a monitoring chain using delta sigma DACs.
First