Any franchise having a “meta-universe” is interesting because it brings in a *whole* lot of questions. We know that Undertale and Deltarune are both their own games. It was confirmed that Deltarune is a “parallel universe” to Undertale. So in terms of that, are they different universes in one *game*; just showing different stories? Are they just separate games in-canon entirely? If that’s the case, then how in-canon do two games make a multiverse? Do the characters actually have a sentience with a free will, or are they literally just programmed AI? Do they canonically look like sprite-work? There are so many possibilities for how to do a world like that. I’ve also noticed a lot of stuff like this in the Sonic series. In those games, there is even evidence that *concept art* is canon (No, I am not joking). So imagine if we were to look at other media. If Undertale or Deltarune content from media other than a game is considered canon, then how would it work? Like imagine a comic or a website, for example. Would it be one universe that could be perceived through multiple forms of fiction, or is each canonically a different form of media? If it were the ladder, then how would it be the same universe if it were canon? Does the universe evolve and change to fit this form of media, are the characters brought to a different, parallel world, where almost everything is the same?
@@existenceispain_geekthesiren Within the universe of Undertale, Undertale is not a game, but instead a world that has the rules of a game. The player is canon to Undertale, but not in a way that canonizes the game's status as a game. The game mechanics and existence of a player and shit are all canon because the universe functions like a game, but this doesn't mean it is a game in-universe, this is just how the universe works, we are a part of its world regardless of its status as a video game
I already had the definition of Canon in the video so I’ll just go over the other two. For me Fanon is similar to Canon in that it’s something widely agreed upon but actually not shown to really be true in the actual story; For an example in Undertale I think of stuff like how people believe Papyrus hates puns. Head Canons are more like theories in that it’s something an individual believes is a likely possibility about a story or character, even if the narrative doesn’t explicitly or completely back it up.
Anything that happens in the game is canon The thing with Undertale is that anything that happens is somewhere on the timeline The only thing that every player goes through is The Underground, the place where the game is set
This idea is predicated on the “Tea Theory,” which is not explicitly confirmed. Regardless, the point of that section was not that Noelle having a crush on Susie wasn’t canon, that’s a sentiment that I disagree with directly after in the video; I used it as an example to show how an idea considered to be “Canon” does not need *Explicit* (high emphasis on explicit) confirmation from neither the game nor the author to actually be canonical.
I love how people asked Toby if undertake Yellow could be considered canon which isn’t the stupidest question since Undertale yellow goes well and beyond to try to stick too the material and not add fanon shit it makes a lot of sense why people would ask that since not only does it give a good backstory to Gun kid I mean Clover but it adds depth to characters and things like Flowey and how the secret lab works
"destructive analysis" is an idea in media analysis that by accepting one interpretation of a work you are "destroying" all other conflicting interpretations. I personally think this is quite a ridiculous idea. there doesn't always have to be a single correct answer.
I like to think that what defines something as real or "canon" depends on how many people choose to believe in it. If enough people have faith in a thing, its impact on the world (via people making videos, fan art, and other related media) is apparent. In this way, all fiction is merely a vessel to harness belief; Some kind of connection between you and other individuals who know this thing. Everyone watching this video ought to be well aware of Toby Fox's work. What I'm wondering is what would happen if someone were to play and accept a fan game (or any work derivative of something) without playing the "original". Is their constructed experience as real as ours? Or would they lack this connection, supported by something like people talking about it on the internet?
0:15 LMFAO. Ye lets consider AUs cannon now, that will surely not cause problems 9:00 Sure but dont misunderstand . The only things that COULD be considered cannon for the purposes of viewing Ut/Dr , discussing their themes and story , narrative, ideas characters etc . are STRICTLY tied to the main games themselves. IF Toby was interested in giving the ,,Yellow,, soul a background any fan interpretations become null and void in face of the actual narrative idea an author is presenting, so NO , no fan project can ever be ,,Cannon,,
Undertale yellow unfortunately cant be canon unless toby retcons something, because in the game files you can see the fallen humans's save files, and they all predate flowey's file.
Undertale Yellow can't be canon simply for the fact that flowey _has_ a save file, something that I think is pretty clearly associated with having a human soul
Undertale yellow honestly it’s not Canon a human has more determination than a stupid flower wasn’t the whole entire thing that a human is stronger than a monster so if a flower DT that does not mean the flower is stronger than you literally you have more determination than a stupid flower plus that flowers evil and you’re justice so you probably be like more determined to serve justice to this flower so you should have the power of saving and reset
Honestly, I might be lazy, but I know that I’m more determined than a stupid evil flower who has no love ones nothing in their life to give them motivation or power
If you fall into a cave, you would be very determined to get out of it so you can see your family. Honestly, I didn’t understand the whole entire thing about red = determination I mean, isn’t every human filled with determination. If I’m not determined to be patient, I’m not patient that simple.
Flowey having more determination than Clover is not the biggest contrivance in the world, especially since Determination isn’t really fixed. Flowey, like the player themselves, see the world as a video game, and that gameistic view of the world may contribute to him having more Determination. Clover in the neutral endings is also sort of implied to be a “Fake Hero” of sorts, staying with Toriel when given the chance despite their desire for Justice. Whether you (or any other player) are actually Determined enough to override Flowey does not matter in Undertale Yellow, since unlike in Undertale the game doesn’t seem to account for the Player.
canonically, undertale is a video game, and you are the player. everything happening irl is canon.
This is true
This is not entirely true
@@crypt5129 elaborate
Any franchise having a “meta-universe” is interesting because it brings in a *whole* lot of questions.
We know that Undertale and Deltarune are both their own games. It was confirmed that Deltarune is a “parallel universe” to Undertale. So in terms of that, are they different universes in one *game*; just showing different stories? Are they just separate games in-canon entirely? If that’s the case, then how in-canon do two games make a multiverse? Do the characters actually have a sentience with a free will, or are they literally just programmed AI? Do they canonically look like sprite-work?
There are so many possibilities for how to do a world like that. I’ve also noticed a lot of stuff like this in the Sonic series. In those games, there is even evidence that *concept art* is canon (No, I am not joking). So imagine if we were to look at other media. If Undertale or Deltarune content from media other than a game is considered canon, then how would it work? Like imagine a comic or a website, for example. Would it be one universe that could be perceived through multiple forms of fiction, or is each canonically a different form of media? If it were the ladder, then how would it be the same universe if it were canon? Does the universe evolve and change to fit this form of media, are the characters brought to a different, parallel world, where almost everything is the same?
@@existenceispain_geekthesiren Within the universe of Undertale, Undertale is not a game, but instead a world that has the rules of a game. The player is canon to Undertale, but not in a way that canonizes the game's status as a game. The game mechanics and existence of a player and shit are all canon because the universe functions like a game, but this doesn't mean it is a game in-universe, this is just how the universe works, we are a part of its world regardless of its status as a video game
The real canon was the friends we made along the way
Whats the difference between your definition of canon and fanon or head canon?
I already had the definition of Canon in the video so I’ll just go over the other two. For me Fanon is similar to Canon in that it’s something widely agreed upon but actually not shown to really be true in the actual story; For an example in Undertale I think of stuff like how people believe Papyrus hates puns. Head Canons are more like theories in that it’s something an individual believes is a likely possibility about a story or character, even if the narrative doesn’t explicitly or completely back it up.
The two are very different actually, but interesting question.
"A punk that gets framed for the crimes they did not commit" is the most untipical way to describe Maya Fey I have seen so far
Anything that happens in the game is canon
The thing with Undertale is that anything that happens is somewhere on the timeline
The only thing that every player goes through is The Underground, the place where the game is set
Alright.
So.
If.
I make Papyrus a hot anime girl.
Is that technically considered canon?????
Fortunately no
it can be (head)canon if you want it to be
@@kamera1890 I think you mean "UNfortunately"
@@Gnarp-Gnarpi I said what I meant and I meant what I said
@@kamera1890an elephant’s fateful 100% (I’m so sorry I read to much dr Seuss as a kid)
Noelle when she drinks susie tea she regenerates 400 hp so is canon that she likes susie
This idea is predicated on the “Tea Theory,” which is not explicitly confirmed. Regardless, the point of that section was not that Noelle having a crush on Susie wasn’t canon, that’s a sentiment that I disagree with directly after in the video; I used it as an example to show how an idea considered to be “Canon” does not need *Explicit* (high emphasis on explicit) confirmation from neither the game nor the author to actually be canonical.
I think you didn't watch the video properly because that was not the point of the video.
Also, mind you, that interaction is only accessible through hacks. Which means the player isn't supposed to see it
I love how people asked Toby if undertake Yellow could be considered canon which isn’t the stupidest question since Undertale yellow goes well and beyond to try to stick too the material and not add fanon shit it makes a lot of sense why people would ask that since not only does it give a good backstory to Gun kid I mean Clover but it adds depth to characters and things like Flowey and how the secret lab works
Interesting take on the very concept of canon
"destructive analysis" is an idea in media analysis that by accepting one interpretation of a work you are "destroying" all other conflicting interpretations. I personally think this is quite a ridiculous idea.
there doesn't always have to be a single correct answer.
I agree!
I like to think that what defines something as real or "canon" depends on how many people choose to believe in it. If enough people have faith in a thing, its impact on the world (via people making videos, fan art, and other related media) is apparent. In this way, all fiction is merely a vessel to harness belief; Some kind of connection between you and other individuals who know this thing. Everyone watching this video ought to be well aware of Toby Fox's work.
What I'm wondering is what would happen if someone were to play and accept a fan game (or any work derivative of something) without playing the "original". Is their constructed experience as real as ours? Or would they lack this connection, supported by something like people talking about it on the internet?
Whats canon is sans is ness
So True!
I wonder if any of the previous humans meet gaster
Lore of Undertale and 'Canon' momentum 100
0:15 LMFAO. Ye lets consider AUs cannon now, that will surely not cause problems
9:00 Sure but dont misunderstand . The only things that COULD be considered cannon for the purposes of viewing Ut/Dr , discussing their themes and story , narrative, ideas characters etc . are STRICTLY tied to the main games themselves.
IF Toby was interested in giving the ,,Yellow,, soul a background any fan interpretations become null and void in face of the actual narrative idea an author is presenting, so NO , no fan project can ever be ,,Cannon,,
I agree!
Fan projects of course can't be canon, but they can be canon-compatible
And to be fair Alphys confirmed the existence of AUs
this is a true !!!!!!PEAK!!!!!! video WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So…. It’s canon now? Sans is Ness!!!! 😂 game theory was right all along!!!
Undertale yellow unfortunately cant be canon unless toby retcons something, because in the game files you can see the fallen humans's save files, and they all predate flowey's file.
There's a LOT more contradictions then just that.
@MrAppleSalad I havent played it yet. That's just what I know that doesn't work.
Undertale Yellow cannot be canon yeah
So, Flowey did come after the six humans? Or is that just a theory?
Undertale Yellow can't be canon simply for the fact that flowey _has_ a save file, something that I think is pretty clearly associated with having a human soul
I hope you keep making videos. Your actually really good.
Thank you!
Toby seed yellow was canon I pretty sure he wasn’t serious but I like to think it is even it isn’t
Head-canoning that UTY happened in Undertale’s universe is fine teehee
Undertale is not canon to undertale
Undertale yellow honestly it’s not Canon a human has more determination than a stupid flower wasn’t the whole entire thing that a human is stronger than a monster so if a flower DT that does not mean the flower is stronger than you literally you have more determination than a stupid flower plus that flowers evil and you’re justice so you probably be like more determined to serve justice to this flower so you should have the power of saving and reset
Every human could’ve saved and reload. but they did gave up. you know like how you can play the game and you just quit but frisk didn’t.
But in simple words, how did you get the determination from the other humans in the lab?
Honestly, I might be lazy, but I know that I’m more determined than a stupid evil flower who has no love ones nothing in their life to give them motivation or power
If you fall into a cave, you would be very determined to get out of it so you can see your family. Honestly, I didn’t understand the whole entire thing about red = determination I mean, isn’t every human filled with determination. If I’m not determined to be patient, I’m not patient that simple.
Flowey having more determination than Clover is not the biggest contrivance in the world, especially since Determination isn’t really fixed. Flowey, like the player themselves, see the world as a video game, and that gameistic view of the world may contribute to him having more Determination. Clover in the neutral endings is also sort of implied to be a “Fake Hero” of sorts, staying with Toriel when given the chance despite their desire for Justice. Whether you (or any other player) are actually Determined enough to override Flowey does not matter in Undertale Yellow, since unlike in Undertale the game doesn’t seem to account for the Player.
This video is utter trite lmao
Im curious about this, can you elaborate?