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Kamera
United States
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 4 มี.ค. 2022
Local basement dweller and Undertale enthusiast.
TS!Underswap Discontent Theory (A Metanarrative Analysis)
The TS!Underswap Discontent Theory is a Theory and Metanarrative Analysis that aims to predict the meta themes TS!Underswap may intend to explore, particularly in the Ruthless route.
-- TIMESTAMPS --
00:00 Introduction
01:19 Swapped Meta Themes
05:51 Narrative Completionism
10:17 Entity's Role
15:58 Papyrus' Relevance
19:26 Papyrus and Discontent
22:50 Wrap-Up
-- MUSIC USED --
Danganronpa 2 OST - Alter Ego of the New World
Metroid Prime OST - Magmoor Caverns
Paper Lily Chapter 1 OST - Burning Past
Phoenix Wright OST - Investigation ~ Middle Stage 2004
Your Turn to Die OST - tansaku3(Exploration D)
Danganronpa OST - Beautiful Dead
Metroid Prime 3 OST - Skytown
Earthbound OST - Deeper into Ness's Subconscious
Danganronpa V3 OST - Almost Hell Heaven
Night in the Woods OST - Fireflies on the Porch
Omori OST - Remember to be Patient
Mother 3 OST - Happy Town
Mother 3 OST - And Then There Was None
Your Turn to Die OST - Tsurugi(Exploration C)
Your Turn to Die OST - Yume (unused)
-- OTHER FOOTAGE --
Unofficial TS!Underwap Papyrus Battle - th-cam.com/video/u6Z-9F8o77o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=t_erxQA8tdT5qY4R
-- TIMESTAMPS --
00:00 Introduction
01:19 Swapped Meta Themes
05:51 Narrative Completionism
10:17 Entity's Role
15:58 Papyrus' Relevance
19:26 Papyrus and Discontent
22:50 Wrap-Up
-- MUSIC USED --
Danganronpa 2 OST - Alter Ego of the New World
Metroid Prime OST - Magmoor Caverns
Paper Lily Chapter 1 OST - Burning Past
Phoenix Wright OST - Investigation ~ Middle Stage 2004
Your Turn to Die OST - tansaku3(Exploration D)
Danganronpa OST - Beautiful Dead
Metroid Prime 3 OST - Skytown
Earthbound OST - Deeper into Ness's Subconscious
Danganronpa V3 OST - Almost Hell Heaven
Night in the Woods OST - Fireflies on the Porch
Omori OST - Remember to be Patient
Mother 3 OST - Happy Town
Mother 3 OST - And Then There Was None
Your Turn to Die OST - Tsurugi(Exploration C)
Your Turn to Die OST - Yume (unused)
-- OTHER FOOTAGE --
Unofficial TS!Underwap Papyrus Battle - th-cam.com/video/u6Z-9F8o77o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=t_erxQA8tdT5qY4R
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In fact, I believe more in the Duet of Sans and Papyrus, because it will be something really interesting, because surprisingly there is no fan game where there was a duet of Sans and Papirosych, because the merciless path is like a difficult mode here, and what could be the final test, if not two skeletons that give you a punch in the face. in general it would be brilliant if in the final court, when we arrive, Sans will be standing, and then he will judge, and then Papyrus will appear and will be the Lawyer, and will try to justify our actions, well, or also judge, we can do the opposite, that we will first see Papyrus, and then Sans will come, this will not destroy the underswap, because Sans will still be the second boss, and Papyrus will still be the judge, and will only be the boss in genocide, like Sans in the original. (that was my opinion on this matter).
Thanks For Calling Me Amazing
6:46 Actually, I have a theory about this. I think Frisk is behind it. Think about it: the Player never could overwrite the options, only choose one. However, here we see someone REWRITE them. Rewrite them to choices FRISK would do in the original UNDERTALE. That most likely means Frisk wants to get out of the Underground for whatever reason, but they are a lot more of a passive character, only activating when needed, but still hoarding control.
TS!Underswap True Google Route
I hate (and love) how this makes me want more out of what essentially isn't even there I want more of the nothing
Excellent analysis! In my opinion a lot of Undertale Yellow's messaging is overlooked, so this is a really nice reminder of how well the game hinted at certain topics. I would like to see perhaps in a future video a deeper look at the Clover-Martlet analysis, since in my opinion it is a major thing not often discussed. I will leave a little paragraph below justifying it. Clover and Martlet's bond is nothing short of special, and the game made it pretty obviously one of it's main focuses . I mean, it's assumed that Clover is just a kid who had a questionable home life at best, who moved on as soon as he fell. What I find most interesting is how he views Martlet, considering like with Toriel, in a similar fashion, as soon as he is shown a speck of love and affection, he is willing to drop his mission to find the kids and stay with her in the neutral ending, so it is quite obvious he appreciates her as a parental/caretaker figure way more than Ceroba. After all Martlet plays a crucial role in all 3 of the main routes of the game. In pacifist, most obviously, he spends the most amount of time with her, was worried for her wellbeing while in the jail, eand her voice being the climax of his "revelation" in the "Gift" cutscene about Clover being a "kind soul". Or how in neutral, he drops everything regarding his mission to talk to her on the rooftop, like, even Flowey tried to persuade him and even made a good point that he was the only one who was always by his side, but still to no avail he would end up being won by her proposal. NONE of Clover's dialogue options when asked to live with her are a refusal, at best just silence, which also show a lot of restraint in refusing her. And most interestingly, in genocide, he showed a fuckton of restraint exclusively for her, I mean he let her off the hook twice, and when he saw she was the only one who tried to see "good" in him, he showes difficulty in finding a real reason to hate her to finish her off. He does look in the final bosses memories in all routes, but here, it is different. In genocide, he always shot first and asked questions later,. Clover had to constantly remind himself of his goals with 1 word sentences to not lose focus, ("home", "freedom" "reconciliation" "closure")...I mean, by that point on the final geno fight he is too far gone, but I always interpreted it as even by that point struggling to find a reason to TRULY hate her, I mean, she was the only one who tried to see good in him until the bitter end. And I 100% guarantee that if the genocide route happened at some point before a true pacifist, Clover would end up resetting out of regret (I mean why would the game give us a choice to do that in the first place? I know repliability and all, but this always got me thinking).
That's a good analysis! I wish that it was expanded in the game more though
I thought it was pretty obvious that “the entity” is Frisk, the same way the Frisk’s “entity” is Chara in Undertale, it would make sense that Frisk takes a more Flowey like approach because in Undertale, you are playing as Frisk and the player isn’t possessing Frisk or anything like that unlike in Deltarune, so Frisk is meant to represent us instead of the player being diegetic to the game, so TS!Underswap Frisk is a lot more like us and Flowey because they represent us in Undertale
Wait, are you sure that Frisk isn't possessed by the player? Because, in first place, the player and Frisk are not the same being, but as how you said, Frisk only represents the player. Represents. Because there are clearly evidence that suggests that Frisk itself haves a personality in Undertale (Being someone patient, someone that wouldn't make fun of another people pain, likes healthy food, etc). While the player doesn't haves any kind of predefined personality (because after all, we aren't a character, but an entity that interacts trough the world with a vessel (Frisk in undertale case and Kris in deltarune)). So I highly doubt about how much Frisk isn't possessed by us (remember, Chara DOESN'T possess anyone in undertale, they are just an invisible force that is in our side). And if Frisk doesn't acts so aggressively as how Kris does, it could be because; • They maybe have differents (and probably healthier) ways to cope with it. • They may not even have the same resistance as Kris • They may not even realize that we are the ones that takes the actions, or even knew about our existence. Heck, maybe Frisk thinks that all of their actions are made by themselves. Now, I want to theorize about how TS!Frisk is going to be portrayed. If we take into account how UT!Chara role was the search of power, then maybe the same role should go to Frisk in this scenario. However, UT!Frisk never speaks in the base game (makes sense, after all, Chara is the narrator, thus, giving limitations to know when Frisk speaks by themselves (being on weird occasions)). Which also makes sense as why in TS!Underswap, Chara is still the narrator and why she says things like "I won", instead of "You won". Now, how Frisk would reach for power, when their personality is about not harming people and doing things in a more peaceful way? There's a lot of different possibilities about how Frisk wants power and how it could achieve it without the need of killing. But for that, we should assume that Frisk haves a different meaning of what's power for them. Maybe, in comparison to UT!Chara, TS!Frisk believes that power is having a high social status, a high influence and warriors over their side. If that's truth, then, TS!Frisk maybe want us to do the compassionate route because that fills them with power. Or what they consider as power, at least. Which it would make sense, because in comparison to Sans and Chara, Frisk doesn't haves a proper number, thus, not looking for Power... or at least not as how Chara does. Now, what if instead of TS!Frisk having the same role of UT!Chara (searching power), it just occupies her situation? (Being a Ghostly being that is in our side). If that's is, perhaps, then TS!Frisk is maybe completely innocent. Maybe TS!Frisk just wants to help TS!Chara to go trough a prettier path than a rough one. Which, then, I would dare to say that TS!Frisk maybe is going to appear in the compassionate ending, being revived as how Chara does in undertale but in the opposite way. But isn't going to have a lot of influence and dialogue. While in the Ruthless route is going to start to speak more and try to help Chara to change for a better path? For example, what about when TS!Chara yelled... wasn't towards to the player but towards Frisk? What if the "I don't want to keep doing this" or similar options isn't what Chara wanted to say but what FRISK wants to Chara to say? If that's so, then that's creppy, because it means that Chara isn't being forced to anything, but that she's *resisting* Frisk Help. If Frisk really wants to help Chara in TS!Underswap, then it would make complete sense that it exist the evacuation route, a route that doesn't exist in other fangames. A route which consists about Chara trying to become a better self after her past mistakes. In any case, TS!Frisk is going to be really interesting.
9:22 umm this part is actually from trial by fury from cerobas genocide fight but eh point still stnands. nice video tho
It appears in both themes. Enemy Retreating’s motif is like an overarching theme in this route
@@kamera1890ok yeah nevermind im stupid lol. i just relistened to both songs and you used a part from retribution after all. Sorry!
@@timthecringe it’s all good hehe
The fact that Chara uses the Act option on Larry is more cruel than the Fight option imo
The developers saying that they were planning on having the ruthless Papyrus fight end in 1 shot helps support this. There'd be a lot of discontent if the final boss of the most hyped up route is that anti climactic
WE'RE WONSING!
Guys i think he WILL suffer
I WATCHED IT AS SOON AS 1 DAY YESSSSS OBLIGATORY COMMENT FOR ALGORITHM TAKEOVER
Something i noticed is that the evil route's bosses seem to be doing the opposite to Undertale's. Toriel got one-shot in an anticlimactic ending. Asgore had a full fight where he went out while trying to avenge his people in a very climactic way. Papyrus got one-shot in a fight where he was 100% serious and very emotional. Sans had a full fight where he trolls and mocks you. Now i don't know what other people think, but i cannot imagine alphys having a hyper-climactic sacrifice for monsterkind like undyne did, i imagine she will pull some "with the power of god and anime on my side!" Bullshit and die instantly (i could be wrong tho, this is only my opinion.) So what if the genocide bosses were the reverse of undertale? It would go with the whole Swap gimmick and it would make Papyrus REALLY anti-climactic
@@Gerbert67 I have seen this take before, but I honestly disagree, because if the Ruthless route is this game’s hard mode (which is officially stated), I am sure that Alphys would be a challenge as well. Alphys probably won’t be like Undyne, but because she’s more like a tactician, she can definitely use everything at her disposal to attempt to defeat you.
@@kamera1890 I mean, I can imagine her having this gigantic fortress filled with overworld hazards and minibosses that is SUPER hard, but once you reach her you get the anti-climactic fight. Maybe in the normal route you reach her and it's a joke fight where you spare her by making her rant about anime, but in the evil route you just kill her. The fortress still provides a bigger challenge, but the fight itself still reflects Alphys' pvp strenght
@@Gerbert67 I feel like with her brilliance, she’d probably utilize all of her gadgets and what not in her fight, so I don’t think the fight inherently reflects raw strength. It could go either way though.
well y'know what would be interesting? we know when crossbones "Dies" Well he dies as a superhero his identity But sans is still alive...What if When we Go to fight papyrus instead of papyrus dying in one hit and actually believing his brother is actually dead.. sans jumps in the way taking the hit for papyrus... I feel like sans during the ruthless route his "Tactical retreat" If i must say pulling a martlet of course...we may have a harder battle with him in regard im very interested to see what else sans will do to try and stop us.
My Theory is that Sans since now isn't going to do anything in the future. Yeah, that's right. nothing. Why? Well, if we take into account how Ts! Characters are made (Their roles being the opposites but they personalities not being modified), then that means that this Sans is as same of Hopeless like UT! Sans. Undertale Sans already had given up and doesn't haves any hope (confirmed by the pacifist route where you are trying to call back to the memories of the characters). And it would make complete sense, because TS! Sans could be also completely Hopeless and being recognized as a hero by everyone would be his way of coping with that hopelessness. After all, if you're occupied with being loved by everyone while also fulfilling their expectations, then is easier to deal with your hopelessness than thinking on them. However, we should take into account how weird is that TS!Sans is still a judge (since he uses the Karma in the abortion/change route and in the genocide too) which is surprising to me, because i believed that his ability was going to be given to Papyrus as how being a judge is a role. So maybe my interpretation may be wrong, especially because I'm just recently entering to the deepness of ts!underswap.
Honestly, it doesn't make any sense for me. This is probably the most looked for fight in the entire game and I get that that is the idea of this theory. I don't think the Dev Would make the most hyped for fight underwhelming. It just doesn't make any sense for me, but if this theory is true, then. I am sure a lot of people. Will Hate it.
@@coolerx3211 The fact that it is the most looked for fight is the point of this theory yes. I don’t believe it’ll be a completely underwhelming, but probably go more like the Harry and Larry fight, which is a fight but it makes you expect more.
damn..
Adding to some theories of how might the papyrus fight go in the ruthless route, i think the game will allude to his special attack, similar to undertale, only for him to die before he could use it. I think this fits nicely into the theme of narrative disappointment as well as a reflection of undertales approach.
This is an amazing video, I loved it :)
pretty much what i interpreted, awesome vid
Ummm, can you resume what you said? i didnt understand anything
@@foxyoddish I would recommend rewatching the video to understand it better then
You talking about his special attack being nothing makes me think, that maybe papyrus "nothing" would be him trying to spare you, like after his fight, he can't do nothing anymore, so he say that he would use his special attack, that would be nothing but his forgiveness, where he would try to make yo spare you because of his believed, and you just betray kill him, it would be like a parallel to his death in undertale. Like
13:48 Wait they are not going to do a "Megalo" for TS!Papyrus?,That means.... NO MISFORTUNE 🥺🥺🥺😭😭😭
No reanimation?😢
They're going to use Gadobadorrer for Papyrus' theme... trust.
No Misfortune is just crime........ Even if they managed to make a better "Megalo" for Papyrus' theme, I would prefer Misfortune
I ask, I just ask please that at least the leitmotiv be heard for idk 2 seconds, that would make me happy enough
cool theory!
One that might strengthen your theory is that in the ruthless route, if you reload after killing sans he will give you a revelation that permantly changes his interactions in all routes. He says : "No matter what you do, or have done in the past... remember that i've only ever tolerated you for the sake of others." This secret makes all interacions with Sans a lot sadder, making it clear that even during his hangout he only "tolerates" you. This implies that the game will go one step beyond just narative dissapointment and reach narative assasination. We already see something simillar to this with Koffin-K, his selfishness and carelessness allow us to continue. What if the ruthless route gives information that poisons our perceptions of the story and it's characters.
That’s a really interesting idea! Personally, I think Sans line there isn’t fully true, and it’s more about him trying to guilt trip and emotionally manipulate you. Although, his dialogues in his hangout can be kind of passive aggressive, so it may be true to some extent. Regardless, the idea of narrative assassination here is really cool!
good video man❤
hi, i'm one of the devs! really cool to see what you came up with, great work!
cool!
Thank you so much ❤
THE J will appear in the game?
How’s section 3 going?
@@grantthomasproductions1274 we're chugging along! it's been a bit slow with a lot of us caught up with school and work but we've made a lot of progress and I'm excited to see what people think once it comes out :)
He’s back!
17:15 NO!! PLEASE!! I DON'T WANNA DEAL WITH THIS GUY! LITERALLY NO CHECKPOINT ON PHASE 2 AND 20 DMG EVERY HIT LIKE WHAT.
I think TS underswap papyrus' fight will be the same as in undertale but with s and no kr. Or we may not even fight papyrus but we might fight someone else.
MAN THE ROYAL RIVER??!??!
I think that the Narrative disspointment might be papyrus having a sort of heros journey during the ruthless and that somehow find out that the entity or player controlling them with papyrus having minute whole speech about saving them with climactic music during mid of the the final attack papyrrus says HERE IT COMES he uses the special attack just for the player just to absolutely destroy it as the music suddenly just stops papyrus bearly reacting gets cutt down not even getting to say his last words Just no conclusion or pay off, not sad, just abruply ends unsatisfying
Ruthless, Papyrus would probably be truly scared of you yet he'll try to see the good in you. But then worse stuff happen.
TS!Underswap schizophrenia theory
@@migosp43 okay but I cooked
20:03 pink name? i thought that's undertale
You can change the name color in Undertale in the Ruins yeah
@@kamera1890 woaw i did not know
The GOAT drops again
A detail to add to the theory. In the Sans Hangout when Papyrus and Sans play the fighting game a remark is made about the fighters chosen. Sans chooses a character with low stats but high stamina while Paps chooses the opposite. Sans even states high stats mean nothing if the character can’t take an attack. Perhaps in the Papyrus fight Papyrus will only be taken down in a single hit rather than actually having a full fight most people think.
They said themselves (it was even shown in the video) they were intending to have that be the case but people would get pissed so they’re giving him an actual fight
@@Zonic3451 That sucks; I would've loved to see Papyrus throw out a massively complex attack only to go down in 1 hit
@@Zonic3451 True, However I think the battle would be the contrast of the Sans battle. Where the Sans battle would is long and basically disregards your high stats the Papyrus fight could easily be very short but either he does a lot of damage or he has very long attacks.
I believe we are gonna see Papyrus die from 1 hit but as Sans is still alive we are fighting him again before continue, probably killing some temmies along the way and then ending toriel from one hit
@@Zonic3451 Thank god. I’m all for dissatisfaction, but TS: Underswap gave pretty much everybody a fight. There are many other ways to make it unsatisfying. Maybe it just ends with Chara killing us, and just making our Steam accounts say “ this bozo thought they were in control” or something. I just want Papyrus to get his big chance.
hear me out, what if when we finally arrive to papyrus' fight, he first dodges the attack, but the moment its out turn again adn we attack again, chara could do a ''double attack'' like what we seen happen at the end of sans fight where we kill sans without imput, what if chara after experiencing sans, doesnt wanna deal with dodging and hard attacks again to a point they say ''screw this'' and insta kill him, and when his head falls off, he could say smth like ''w--wait! i havent even used my special attack ye-'' ''w-wait! please give me a-'' and then chara stomps his head to a dust. in a instant. giving us a unsatisfying challange as papyrus only did one hard attack
@@pyroonbusinesschannel118 This is cool! My personal prediction is that there’d be a phase 1 where Sans and Papyrus team up, but with the fallout caused from Sans faking his death, Chara is able to use that inner conflict between the Skelebros to get a quick one-shot on Sans. And after that, Papyrus basically does nothing.
@@kamera1890 isnt that just harry and larry? ohhh unless harry and larry were foreshadowing their battle
@@pyroonbusinesschannel118 It is similar, but it feels like what makes the most sense in my mind
@@kamera1890 i c
I was thinking the opposite: You get an unavoidable, insta-kill attack that forces you to reset over and over and over again. Basically being one of those fights you’re destined to lose.