@OzzyTheWild i think modern missiles like what the F35 has can lock onto enemies not on their nose, if they can lock enemies on their six im not so sure
@OzzyTheWild It's mostly because of inertia. A missile fired forward uses the planes momentum to its advantage and is already travelling fast in the direction it wants to be going, it only needs more thrust to accelerate further ahead. A missile pointed to the rear would need enough inital thrust to first cancel out the momentum of the plane and only then could start to accelerate towards a target to the rear which is just incredibly difficult and would only be useful in very niche situations.
yeah we ran tests for a couple hours with the old and new f16s and migs; the f16 is now a very good dogfighter in a much wider range of speeds, especially against the heavy smt. it also has an advantage with the 9M being very tedious to shake reliably vs the r73 which may have very good stats but can at least be flared with standard methods, if a bit less reliably. the migs obviously still hold an advantage before the merge due to the 27Es closing the gap much faster than other missiles, but in the hands of two capable pilots we could only conclude that the f16 will be the optimal choice; the migs will still be best for grabbing easy kills against average players, much like the tomcat. as you said even though the block 50 has very good energy because of the f110 engine it still loses out to the As in a pure dogfight, but in most practical situations the block 50 will generally be more desirable.
It was already the best dogfighter now made even stronger haha. Not complaining though. Live server wise i'd put the Mig29 slightly ahead yea because of less compression, HMD, and R27s. But now it's just HMD and missiles so. As an MLU pilot im very happy.
@@jaek_898nah he means how flares always (mainly near or above mach 1) just get shat out right next to where you dropped them and as if it was like chaff. Now they actually have momentum and don't stay in one spot, the drag seems a lot less heavy on them and they move smoothly through the air now
So i got the manual, youll need sim controls to test this, but the F-16C and F-16A MLU/ADF both should have the same radius/sustsined turn rate, the F-16C would need to sustain 380 knots, F-16A MLU/ADF can already sustain 350 knots, if flown right and you sustain those exact speeds they should have a sustained turn rate (at 20 minutes of fuel, and 2 fox 2's) of 22 to 24 DPS. Ill be making a video about this to see if they modeled it correctly, but since im not on pc i cant do it now, ill have to wait till the update goes live.
Yep. Block 10 = F-16A, F-16AJ, F-16A Netz. Block 15 = F-16A ADF, and the Block 20 MLU flightmodel is basically the same as the ADF. Every F-16A pulls harder on the dev server
@@topbanana.2627 perhaps not, (I'd probably give that award to the thrust vecoring fighters, particularly the F-22 since it's also artificially stable) but it is the best pure dogfighting jet in game.
@@topbanana.2627 it currently and soon to be (game wise) is the best dog fighter. At that magical turn speed it will out turn, out thrust to weight, and out energy retain better than any other jet in game. as of now.
@@bohba13 i would argue the su57 or su35, since they have 3d thrust vectoring engines that give it a significant edge over the f22s 2d thrust vect. (in terms of just pure dogfighting)
There has never been a G-limiter, they just made it compress to simulate the AoA limiter of the real F-16. IRL the F-16 isn't limited by Gs, it has an AoA limiter, and they modelled that finally
thank GOD for this change. I hated flying all the F-16s because they felt like bricks at high speed, the only tolerable one I would fly out was the Netz. Now I can have fun playing these.
Good, so my Italian F-16A won't be left in the dust, AND I'll even get AIM-9Ms on the AV-8B. Thanks for keeping us updated on the details, this is great information to have!
Lead edge slats are supposed to be active all through out when pull at any speed as long as your below mach 1, and atm the radar doesnt have HMD ACM mode which jt should.
They need to bring g-limit to F8U-2. It would be even better if we activate it with a button from the settings. I couldn't find g-limit in the settings.
@@vedeved5246 I know about aviation. I'm learning what I don't know. Did all information come to you through revelation from God? Of course, revelation did not come to you, you learned by asking. I wish you well-being.
Seeing as the F-8C/F8U-2 entered service around 1959-1960, there'd be no way it would have FBW (the only Crusader that did was a testbed F-8C used by NASA in 1972). Jist about every plane up until the F-16 in US service still used hydraulic FCs, and that was around 1978-1979
The C is pretty much a direct upgrade over the ADF and has a lot of new gadgets but the ADF has much cheaper modifications and will be easier to spade. I'd say spade the ADF while grinding the C if you can.
Unless the AIM-9M gets nerfed to oblivion on live server, the C will still be the best choice despite slightly inferior performance through sheer weapon superiority.
Depends on the scenario. in a rate fight, F16's would always win. Not in dogfights, i think the Mig29 can still pull harder? I think Mi29s can do 13gs on full load while F16 full load does 10-11 looks like. although mig29s don't get as strong on less weight like the F16 gets.
@@sadrootbeer I didn't know about that when I was playing on the dev server. I would say the F-16 won 7/10 times when it came to a dogfight, assuming R-73s and AIM-9Ms didn't get involved. I was pretty constantly able to gain an advantage on the Mig-29 in all variants of the F-16 that I flew when played it, and when playing the Mig-29 (both SMT and 9.13) most of the time if I was out of missiles I was in trouble if I engaged any F-16 variant. Even in the current live server, I'd say the F-16 if you mange your speed can easily beat the Mig-29 on a 1v1 but its a lot closer than it is in the dev.
@@renamed5784 after this patch hits, trying to fight an f-16 in a mig-29, ESPECIALLY a SMT, is basically suicide. F-16s are now *extraordinarily* better than migs in terms of dogfighting performance.
They already had the upper hand, now they should be able to beat it even more easily. I didnt really try them against the 9.13 but they were SLAMMING the 9.19
Ooooo can you do a f14b vs f14a video like this? Would love to see difference in turning, acceleration, dogfights beteeen the heavier but more powerful B and the lighter less powerful A.
Idk where i heard it, or if it was just a dream or something so take this with a lot of salt, but I think i had heard Gaijin was considering changing the block variant for the C because of some of the backlash about the sparrow not being on the c and aamrams and all that shit.
I mean it seemed a little ridiculous that planes like the f104s and tornado pulled harder than the f16 at high speeds, i'm happy its coming closer to a more war thunder type flight model
If those planes had Fly-by-wire,they too would behave like F-16. God knows how many times i snapped the wings off of F-14 and 15 by pulling the stick all the way back when merging. I forget that im not flying F-16 and computer wont save my wings from my gorrila grip when i merge.
Great change for the most part, i just feel like some of these G values are getting a little crazy lol. Maybe tone down the G values at low speeds to be similar to what they are on live, so that you arent pulling *16* Gs (seriously, holy shit)
The F-16 airframe can theoretically handle up to 15G in real life, I think... But that's with structural damage, and the pilot turning into a red paste, obviously.
Awww wish you also tested the MLU variant. IMO the F16's were already extremely strong with it's only rival being the Mig29 and maaaybbbeee F14B. But now it terms of flight performance it's just gonna shit on everyone. Although we will have to go up against 9M's and R73s now.. So i guess it is a nice buff to stay competitive at top tier.
Fun fact, the F-16 was actually designed mostly by a fighter pilot, and just from what I heard the F-16 from various different pilots have said that it's actually more maneuverable than a f15 just throwing that out there
holy shit its actually getting a flight model closer to it's irl performance. Gaijin doing what DCS devs could not Edit: It's weird that the F-16C is struggling against the older F-16A's which shouldn't be the case. I'm thinking they put a new engine on the stat card but it doesn't have the performance of said new engine right now on the dev. It's expected that the F-16C would fly slightly differently because it's heavier but it should have more than enough engine power to make up for that.
I love how, depending on how the AIM-9M turns out next patch the F-16AJ and Netz could very well still be the best F-16s with these FM changes
Now if only we would have gotten the block 30 🥺
@@jaek_898 If only...
@@jaek_898and block 20/25
@@FirstDaggerComment went right over your head
Japan also didn't use the f16 lol@@FirstDagger
Since missiles work so well to decoy incoming missiles the USAF should just give up flares and mount additional missiles for defense
mount them backwards and fire two at the plane tailing you))
@@Sundownnnnwhy wasn’t this done tho? It seems like a great way to surviving someone on your six
@@OzzyTheWildlogistical and design nightmare
@OzzyTheWild i think modern missiles like what the F35 has can lock onto enemies not on their nose, if they can lock enemies on their six im not so sure
@OzzyTheWild It's mostly because of inertia. A missile fired forward uses the planes momentum to its advantage and is already travelling fast in the direction it wants to be going, it only needs more thrust to accelerate further ahead. A missile pointed to the rear would need enough inital thrust to first cancel out the momentum of the plane and only then could start to accelerate towards a target to the rear which is just incredibly difficult and would only be useful in very niche situations.
01:48 Enemy MiG-21Bis teamkilled artillery with an R-60MK
LOL honestly quite incredible
The artillery crewman went for a smoke, the R-60 saw a lit cigarette and went for that instead of an afterburning jet
@@lunarcultist6214 accurate for the r60
Being a fan of Jaek is like being a fan of grilling before fire was invented
I had a stroke reading this
@@freezedvegetalthat’s on you
bro is not the thinker lmao
@@_bizmo_fungus_894 the wording on his comment isn't the best
@@amx8336 you’re not wrong but I don’t think it’s stroke worthy
Now the real question is if the reclining seats on the F-16 will help the pilots actually tolerate these intense Gs
Irl
Yes
"None of us are duelists by any means" This was hilarious I spat my water out lol. Great video Jaek :D
yeah we ran tests for a couple hours with the old and new f16s and migs; the f16 is now a very good dogfighter in a much wider range of speeds, especially against the heavy smt. it also has an advantage with the 9M being very tedious to shake reliably vs the r73 which may have very good stats but can at least be flared with standard methods, if a bit less reliably. the migs obviously still hold an advantage before the merge due to the 27Es closing the gap much faster than other missiles, but in the hands of two capable pilots we could only conclude that the f16 will be the optimal choice; the migs will still be best for grabbing easy kills against average players, much like the tomcat. as you said even though the block 50 has very good energy because of the f110 engine it still loses out to the As in a pure dogfight, but in most practical situations the block 50 will generally be more desirable.
It was already the best dogfighter now made even stronger haha. Not complaining though.
Live server wise i'd put the Mig29 slightly ahead yea because of less compression, HMD, and R27s. But now it's just HMD and missiles so.
As an MLU pilot im very happy.
None of this dogfighting stuff matters in air rb the chances of a fair dogfight with nobody interfering is rare asf
Finally the flares physics has been changed (is my opinion), in my opinion, when you drop some flares looks like it get stuck in mid of the air
On the dev server they increased the flare burn time from 3 to 4.5 seconds IIRC, is that what youre talking about?
@@jaek_898nah he means how flares always (mainly near or above mach 1) just get shat out right next to where you dropped them and as if it was like chaff. Now they actually have momentum and don't stay in one spot, the drag seems a lot less heavy on them and they move smoothly through the air now
Gaijin actually fixed something without breaking something else in return... Impossible
well i mean aim-9m and r-73 is pretty broken
So i got the manual, youll need sim controls to test this, but the F-16C and F-16A MLU/ADF both should have the same radius/sustsined turn rate, the F-16C would need to sustain 380 knots, F-16A MLU/ADF can already sustain 350 knots, if flown right and you sustain those exact speeds they should have a sustained turn rate (at 20 minutes of fuel, and 2 fox 2's) of 22 to 24 DPS. Ill be making a video about this to see if they modeled it correctly, but since im not on pc i cant do it now, ill have to wait till the update goes live.
Does that mean the ADF too?
Love your videos, keep up the great work.
Yep. Block 10 = F-16A, F-16AJ, F-16A Netz. Block 15 = F-16A ADF, and the Block 20 MLU flightmodel is basically the same as the ADF.
Every F-16A pulls harder on the dev server
@@jaek_898 ty
Great content man!
Gaijin on their way to absolutely cook the flight model on the best dogfighter to ever be designed.
the f15 isnt even in the game yet though
every jet has its counter. F16 is not the best dogfighter
@@topbanana.2627 perhaps not, (I'd probably give that award to the thrust vecoring fighters, particularly the F-22 since it's also artificially stable) but it is the best pure dogfighting jet in game.
@@topbanana.2627 it currently and soon to be (game wise) is the best dog fighter. At that magical turn speed it will out turn, out thrust to weight, and out energy retain better than any other jet in game. as of now.
@@bohba13 i would argue the su57 or su35, since they have 3d thrust vectoring engines that give it a significant edge over the f22s 2d thrust vect. (in terms of just pure dogfighting)
We shouldve gotten the Block 30 F16. It has the new engine and isnt as heavy as the Block 50 but with the new engine
not removed, but the effects of it have been reduced by 3-4 G's (at high speed)
There has never been a G-limiter, they just made it compress to simulate the AoA limiter of the real F-16. IRL the F-16 isn't limited by Gs, it has an AoA limiter, and they modelled that finally
fantastic and beautiful footage as always jaek.
thank GOD for this change. I hated flying all the F-16s because they felt like bricks at high speed, the only tolerable one I would fly out was the Netz. Now I can have fun playing these.
Jeaks: happy
Seek:
Lee: 😡🌀⛈️
why on earth does youtube recommend me this video? IM ALREADY WATCHING IT!!!
Good, so my Italian F-16A won't be left in the dust, AND I'll even get AIM-9Ms on the AV-8B. Thanks for keeping us updated on the details, this is great information to have!
Hopefully our ADF can one day receive its AIM-120C-5s
@@sushislav And the AV-8B as well. Won't be looking forward to the likely drastically higher BR though.
@@ODST_Parker yeah, the Italian AV-8B only carried AIM-120A/B
Does the GR.7 also get AIM-9M?
@@jacobbaumgardner3406 I believe that was on the list, yes.
Lead edge slats are supposed to be active all through out when pull at any speed as long as your below mach 1, and atm the radar doesnt have HMD ACM mode which jt should.
Baller video
These W’s for the USA are amazing. Keep ‘em coming
shh dont let the Brussians hear you
They need to bring g-limit to F8U-2. It would be even better if we activate it with a button from the settings. I couldn't find g-limit in the settings.
No, they don't. Just tap W to stop breaking your wings.
@@CowBeatsCrow So what? F8U-2 does not have such a feature?
@@hamzaterzi8801
Nope dude the f8 does not have a fly by wire system.
@@vedeved5246 I know about aviation. I'm learning what I don't know. Did all information come to you through revelation from God? Of course, revelation did not come to you, you learned by asking. I wish you well-being.
Seeing as the F-8C/F8U-2 entered service around 1959-1960, there'd be no way it would have FBW (the only Crusader that did was a testbed F-8C used by NASA in 1972).
Jist about every plane up until the F-16 in US service still used hydraulic FCs, and that was around 1978-1979
so im quite close to getting the F-16 ADF for USA but what F-16 do you recommend spading out? the ADF, the A, or wait till the C BLOCK 50?
The C is pretty much a direct upgrade over the ADF and has a lot of new gadgets but the ADF has much cheaper modifications and will be easier to spade. I'd say spade the ADF while grinding the C if you can.
@@jaek_898 sweet, thanks 🙏
Unless the AIM-9M gets nerfed to oblivion on live server, the C will still be the best choice despite slightly inferior performance through sheer weapon superiority.
How does this compare to the mig-29s? Can any of the f-16 variants now out turn the mig-29s or pull higher Gs?
Depends on the scenario. in a rate fight, F16's would always win.
Not in dogfights, i think the Mig29 can still pull harder? I think Mi29s can do 13gs on full load while F16 full load does 10-11 looks like. although mig29s don't get as strong on less weight like the F16 gets.
@@sadrootbeer I didn't know about that when I was playing on the dev server. I would say the F-16 won 7/10 times when it came to a dogfight, assuming R-73s and AIM-9Ms didn't get involved. I was pretty constantly able to gain an advantage on the Mig-29 in all variants of the F-16 that I flew when played it, and when playing the Mig-29 (both SMT and 9.13) most of the time if I was out of missiles I was in trouble if I engaged any F-16 variant. Even in the current live server, I'd say the F-16 if you mange your speed can easily beat the Mig-29 on a 1v1 but its a lot closer than it is in the dev.
@@renamed5784 after this patch hits, trying to fight an f-16 in a mig-29, ESPECIALLY a SMT, is basically suicide. F-16s are now *extraordinarily* better than migs in terms of dogfighting performance.
I m just going to play Block 50 on EC Sim and just have fun.
How do they stack up against the MiG-29 9.13 ?
They already had the upper hand, now they should be able to beat it even more easily. I didnt really try them against the 9.13 but they were SLAMMING the 9.19
1:48 is youngchange_vr wrong for that kill?
Ooooo can you do a f14b vs f14a video like this? Would love to see difference in turning, acceleration, dogfights beteeen the heavier but more powerful B and the lighter less powerful A.
15G 💀. Pilot becomes a Pancake lmao
My netz pilot's vertebrae fusing together into one bone at 16g:
finally its not a brick at high speeds
For me who play only Netz. It's kinda same as liveserver (barak II). So no G limit is good give me more turnrate a lot
does the block 50 get extra flares? (haven't really looked into it) if so how many more?
60 extra, 120 total
@@jaek_898 better than the rest but still sub optimal
Wonder how they perform now in pure rate fights which is where the F-16C should be king, as managed properly it can out rate an F-22.
I didnt do any scientific tests but the block 10 felt like it was considerably out-rating the block 50 and I think the block 15 was out rating it too.
Idk where i heard it, or if it was just a dream or something so take this with a lot of salt, but I think i had heard Gaijin was considering changing the block variant for the C because of some of the backlash about the sparrow not being on the c and aamrams and all that shit.
Yeah smin said somewhere that it wasn't final. But I'm pretty sure it's not going to change at this point.
FINALLY!
4:18 :JaekISP:
1:59 but the highspeed maneuverability is the point of the aircraft
Excellent music choice, now use Project Wingman next time!
Still waiting for the day when gaijin makes an accurate adaptive fuel timer. Flow/volume how fucking hard can it be when WTRTI can do it.
2:46-2:49 Never Forget
OBAMNA! 🍑
DUDE WHAT MAP IS AT 3:16?!?!
new Rocky Pillars map coming next patch
So no comment on my suggestion for your next video?
I must have missed it, what was it?
@@jaek_898 on the cord in wt gen
3:05 what map is that?
The new "Rocky Pillars" map coming with the update
I mean it seemed a little ridiculous that planes like the f104s and tornado pulled harder than the f16 at high speeds, i'm happy its coming closer to a more war thunder type flight model
If those planes had Fly-by-wire,they too would behave like F-16.
God knows how many times i snapped the wings off of F-14 and 15 by pulling the stick all the way back when merging.
I forget that im not flying F-16 and computer wont save my wings from my gorrila grip when i merge.
Where f15?
comment to push this video
AOA ACTIVE
Consider dropping the "_" from your name, it keeps unsubbing me from your channel, this will become an issue as your channel grows.
The GE motors more than makeup for the weight gain irl. The thrust gain is about double the weight gain.
Great change for the most part, i just feel like some of these G values are getting a little crazy lol. Maybe tone down the G values at low speeds to be similar to what they are on live, so that you arent pulling *16* Gs (seriously, holy shit)
The F-16 airframe can theoretically handle up to 15G in real life, I think... But that's with structural damage, and the pilot turning into a red paste, obviously.
Awww wish you also tested the MLU variant.
IMO the F16's were already extremely strong with it's only rival being the Mig29 and maaaybbbeee F14B. But now it terms of flight performance it's just gonna shit on everyone. Although we will have to go up against 9M's and R73s now.. So i guess it is a nice buff to stay competitive at top tier.
Barak obama 2
Fun fact, the F-16 was actually designed mostly by a fighter pilot, and just from what I heard the F-16 from various different pilots have said that it's actually more maneuverable than a f15 just throwing that out there
In what fairy-tale are you living where current fighter pilots design aircraft😅
like it wasnt bad enough losing every match playing russia.
Poor Russian mains ( I have both)
nah, r73 pulls way harder, and the R27ER is just free kills. Theyll be fine
holy shit its actually getting a flight model closer to it's irl performance. Gaijin doing what DCS devs could not
Edit: It's weird that the F-16C is struggling against the older F-16A's which shouldn't be the case. I'm thinking they put a new engine on the stat card but it doesn't have the performance of said new engine right now on the dev. It's expected that the F-16C would fly slightly differently because it's heavier but it should have more than enough engine power to make up for that.
it never had a g limiter just a shit flight model
Thumbnail bait!!
1:50 look at the killfeed