I just have to say - I had no idea the community had such a deep-seated hatred for the "fighter mafia" and did not expect the quantity of comments about the topic. To be clear - I have no real opinion about them one way or the other, and they were only mentioned in the context of kicking the original LWFP into action that eventually led to the F-16. I may have articulated it poorly : I'm not giving them "credit" for anything in particular, but they were the ones who pushed for the initial LWFP funding - thats a matter of historic record. Past that, their influence on later developments (or how correct/wrong their analysis was) is up for debate. As others have pointed out, yes I know they eventually went sour on it once the production plane got off the drawing board. Despite this, the F-16 that eventually got into the air was what they originally wanted - a light, agile, high-thrust dogfighter - even if they themselves eventually got pissy that the airforce gave it radar and all that. Folks can disagree with that opinion - that's fine, and its not anything I feel strongly enough about to really debate. With one single-sentence bit of historical minutia, I'm certainly not trying to give them credit for the F-35 or whatever else they've tried to connect themselves to over the years. I mentioned them only because they pushed for a light, agile, dedicated dogfighter and lobbied for the LWFP's initial funding.
It's alright, you weren't really in the um... In the depths of it all, most sources sight them at least a bit, it just goes to show how much influence they've managed to make people believe they had.
I love how people are complaining about the F 16's turn performance, and when I look at replays they are trying to begin dogfights at mach 1.10 with AB on and no airbrakeing at all. I guess they are used to planes like the phantoms or Mig 21s that bleed speed pretty easily in turns, even with AB on. Not the case with this new generation of planes, designed to pick up speed quickly and retain it.
yeah in a flat horizontal turn the f16 holds speed at almost mach 0.8 forever on the g limiter on full afterburner. took me a while to learn that the plane needs airbrakes and no afterburner when you need maximum turn.
@@bigtony4930 Yes, I wonder how real world's F-16 has such a smaller turn radius than F-4, whereas in Gaijin world, F-16 just out turn by F-4E with 12G pull, what an amazing show.
@@bigtony4930 You have to understand, that pulling 7-8 gs at high speed IS high speed maneuverability for these mach 2 capable aircraft with insane engines... More than that, you would simply bend the airframe. No, you want to be subsonic for a dogfight, which is what the F 16 was designed for, dogfighting. But IRL, it's unlikely to get to a dogfight with modern missiles. SO, I'd say the flight performance is in line with what real modern supersonic jets are like. My dad flew the Hornet, you don't turn like a prop at high speeds,, and even if you did, you'd g loc and break the aircraft.
Its funny how the fightermafia both claims that they have designed the F-16 and also claims it should have been designed without a radar (Or AG capabilities, which it wasnt but absolute excels in)
Radars need to get more advanced because if they dont you will start to see diminishing returns as planes get heavier and less maneuverable but their radars and avionics arent accurately modeled. As good as the F-16CG Blk 52 is in real life, if it was added to the game RIGHT now its only true positive feature would be that it can carry a bunch of AMRAAMs and its radar is semi decent at the cost of it being less nimble. If you want a somewhat close to accurate F-16CG Blk 52, we will need more features for radar
Little tip from the real landing procedure that applies to the ADV and MLU - full pitch up on elevators acts as a secondary airbrake, helping to slow the aircraft down further.
I actually waited to spade it until after the update so I'd get the bonus rp towards the viper. It requires very specific and careful playstyles but I was got lots of matches with 2-3 kills. I absolutely agree that it doesn't belong at 11.0 and decompression is terribly needed, but it's not impossible to have success with it. That said, after I finished spading it I switched to the F-14 and immediately got 5 and 6 kill games. It should definitely be closer to the F-4C's BR then the F-4J, at least in Air RB. Sadly, BRs are based on combined performance in Air and Ground modes so if you only play one and not the other (like me) you're gonna have a hard time.
@CannedCoochie Yeah I think I had a harder time with the F-5E than the F-4E to be honest. At least with the F-4 I could attack other planes up high or deal with head-ons. With the F-5E I pretty much had to go up high, dodge phoenix missiles, hope nobody else came up too, and then dive on unsuspecting targets below me.
Having a brief overview of where a plane came from often helps understand its performance. "Why the hell can't my F-104 turn?!" "Well, it wasn't designed to." etc etc
Thank goodness someone finally brought up the fly by wire system. I've seen so many reviews saying the F-16 can't turn but all they need to do is slow down a little bit and the plane really comes alive
Gaijin doesn’t realistically model damage models so a lot of planes can pull maneuvers that would tear them apart in real life. That’s why people are irritated
@@thatcarguydom266I think Gaijin has stated that planes are given an artificial 1.5x buff for wing strength to make ripping your wings less likely. This however also means that planes can turn much tighter than IRL. But it also means that some planes bleed even more speed than IRL. Imo the fly-by-wire system should also receive this 1.5x buff. Obviously this would lead to the plane bleeding more speed but it would make the plane handle in accordance with all the other planes in the game.
The fighter mafia wanted the f-16 to be a much lighter weight, radarless, daytime gunfighter. A dedicated, radar gunsight only dogfighter. They also wanted it to have lower fuel capacity, and no IFF. They were vehemently against any ground attack capability for the f-16. They decried that the designers should spare "not one pound for air to ground." It is not entirely inaccurate to describe the f-16 being in part a result of their efforts, but it is, thankfully, far from the aircraft they actually envisioned.
Hey I know this is channel is pretty unrelated to historical stuff, but wasn't the "fighter mafia" not a huge fan of this plane and others because it ended up having a bunch of advanced technology?
Originally - loved it. After it got changed to a multi-role concept - hated it. I was referring to the original lightweight fighter program study, and I'm honestly surprised that one trivial throw-away bit of trivia is generating so many comments. I guess I expressed it poorly.
@@TimsVariety The main thing is that the fighter mafia didn't really come up with anything, they just tended to whine about stuff and claim the credit after something got successful.
I loved the detail and information put into this video. I flew on your team yesterday on the Korea map Tim...enjoy the content and keep it coming brother!
The issue with their turning performance is that they have been limited to historical levels while every other plane gets a 1.5x bonus so they don't rip. If this limitation were even across all planes and phantoms were ripping their wings at 8.5g, I wouldn't have this complaint. However, this isn't the case, and has lead to the F-16 being nerfed compared to anything without a fly-by-wire system. I understand you can greatly mitigate this issue by fighting at slower speeds without the afterburner. However, go try and pull more than 9g at any speed and you'll see that you can't. The F-16 ADA will not pull more than 9g at ANY speed. For the record, the Me-264 long range, 4 engine strategic bomber can pull more than 9g. The fact that the F-16 and mig-29 (to a lesser extent) have been limited so hard that certain bombers can out-pull them is a total meme.
The closest things they had to do with it was one of them made a wing sweep diagram for the f15 proposal and one whined about the f15 having “unnecessary things” such as a radar
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough Hold up hold up, I know I'm not an aviation expert, nor am I in the air force (working on that pilot's license as I'm old now), but I read about these guys and it seems like what they wanted fighter jets to be like is not at all like how they are in real life. Like basically remove all the stuff that makes them good is what they wanted.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough that's so laughably false. The people who were "part of the team" did things like budget analysis and programming for programs they tested basic wing designs. Their parts in any of these projects are no different than any other basic engineer who helped with a landing gear hydraulic strut or CPA who did something with accounting for the projects. They circle jerk themselves to stay relevant and continue to make money.
The most craziest thing of all, is the lightweight fighter mafia wanted a radar less supersonic gunfighter with IR guided missiles very much like the F-5A, but the YF-16 and YF-17 ended up with a radar. As times goes by, the lightweight fighter mafia allowed the prototypes to be equipped with a simpler radar. The YF-16 and YF-17 were meant to be equipped with APG-159. Each prototypes will be equipped with turbojet engines( J-79 for YF-16 and J-101 for YF-17) in accordance to the lightweight fighter mafia's cost effective principles. But later on, the F-16A swap for F100 and APG-66. Instead, the export version did have the APG-159 and J-79 configuration.
The fighter mafia had nothing to do with the development of the f-16, John Boyd and reformers had almost nothing to do with the development of the f-16, these people were essentially glorified analysts with token desk jobs that got in their positions by pulling strings and being well connected. This is just scratching the surface of a much larger and longer story that I just don't want to get into because this is a comments section of a warthunder video. I don't blame you at all for thinking these things and ultimately this discussion is harmless as its just a game, and its just a fighter plane that's existence likely doesn't affect anyone in this comments section directly.
F104 out handles this plane, I have it and the Mig 29, Mig always wins in a rate fight. No other plane limits Gs artificially like this one, if you want to claim historical accuracy add the perfect radar gunsight. In your video, you’re stuck at 7G turns waaaay below Mach.
Tim I have the utmost respect for you and your content. So I hope in my heart that crediting the fighter mafia with any degree of competence must be a joke.
here’s the thing you see the f16s fcs is limiting the plane a lot more than it should and that’s just a gaijin issue. Just because you are a partner with gaijin doesn’t mean you can’t be honest. The itr and nose authority at higher speeds is extremely sub par and makes it a pain at times to get your nose around or point it at aiming passing by. It also makes notching sarh missiles annoying at times as if you don’t start turning early you won’t be notching at all
the optimal turn speed is between 650 and 750 kph or 350-400 knots. those who say it turns like the F-104 at high speed they are right but for the wrong reason. the 104 can't turn because it has no wings, the F-16 has a FBW G limiter that prevents over G based on weight. and before you talk about the F-5 and other older planes pulling 12 or 14G, these planes didn't have a limiter and irl pilots would feather the controls to avoid pulling that many G because 12G can be fatal in seconds while it also causes a lot of damage to the plane. in game that's not an issue. the pilot won't die of over G and short of outright breaking the wings, no damage is done to the plane so you can pull as much as you want.
love listening to your videos while on the treadmill! just purchased all of US tank VII as well as a ton of tank VI and the entire naval fighter tree i had waiting for the SL sales, and bought a talisman for the tomcat, ready to grind the falcon
I enjoy playing this plane in first person with full real sim controls more than Mouse & Key. Manual stability control to unlock extra AoA or Dampening mode makes energy management stupid easy. The cockpit glass is an amazing advantage paired with awesome HUD and weapons. I do this in Air RB.
Is the f16 really better at rate fighting than mig 29??? I always rate fight between 430-450 kt with low fuel in f16 and I still get out rated by a decent mig 29 pilot. I’ve been told that the f16 in warthunder is more of a one circle fighter. Any thoughts? I play sim only.
Thanks for putting out these updates on new planes. Gaijin changing what defines top tier each patch is making it a little hard to keep up. I don’t have time to grind out all the new planes so at least know what I am up against is really helpful. Do you think the F4J stands a chance anymore? Is it worth crewing in the current environment of top tier?
F4J as well with the F4EJ Kai for Japan are the two best F-4 phantoms still competitive at top tier. I'm an EJ Kai pilot and I love and think of the F-4J as a worthy opponent. o7
Thanks Tim. Enjoyed the video. I worked on F-16s. One of my favorites. I hope they will put the 360 gallon external wing tanks in game one day. Ready for the blocks with the GE engine.
You can say F-16's turn is okay at trans sonic speed , but compared to F-4E and F-14, MiG-23, it is bad. Needless to say, here on earth F-16 is reknown of its agility and wins over these three big time. F-16's performance may follow earth verison's logic and pull 8,9G, but the rest of the planes follow Gaijin world magic and pull 12G, that is why people complain.
EXACTLY DUDE... You cant have 1 plane follow IRL logic wile every other is on warthunder logic... 9g lock wile other people are at 13g!!! Its a glorified f104
Between the Viper and the Fulcrum, going to be interesting to see how people adapt to such a surplus of engine power. Going to have to relearn Corner Speeds and Max Rate speeds, something that even DCS players struggle with.
Hey Tim, i dont know if you readed my comment entirely last time so ill put it up there again just in case : Once you'll make the review for the new mirage 2000D ( dedicated bomber version ), can you please try to see if it can destroy a base in 1 bomb run only without needing a second one and mention it in your review pls, its really important to me because i think that a dedicated bomber actually need to be able to do that if it wants to be called like so... Ty very much Tim :)
Yet as soon as you hit Mach 1 it handles like an f104 lol Don't get me wrong, I'm having a lot of fun in this thing, I just unlocked it (for free, unlike some others that just just paid money for it in the first hour of the update) a few hours ago and I'm having a blast, I'm just shocked at the lack of maneuverability at high speeds, I feel like the F14 would mop the floor with this thing. Unless it's literal skill issue?
The F14 should mop up at speed. You have to remember that's kinda its whole thing. The f16 is designed as a classic dogfighter so it's best in a sub sonic turn fight.
I think the fighter mafia loved this plane until it was designed to be actually useful (given ground attack capabilities, radar, missiles, and drop tanks)
Okay so if everyone's talking about the throwaway "fighter mafia" comment instead of the actual review, I'm going to talk about how that MiG 23 intercepted your missile at 9:10 instead of the actual review.
So are you Saying the Climb rate and top speed of the Block 15 is lower because of Statcard ingame , or because Other sources say This? Im asking because i wouldnt Trust the statcard ingame and its Most likely wrong.
Why do missiles keep exploding way before they reach their target? Is that just a glitch in the game they never bother to fix? Great video btw. Working the American tech tree for everything, ground, air, and sea, and I am really excited to be able to get this plane now
You forgot to mention that the Chinese MLU gets the AIM-7F. It’s literally the best one and way more versatile. Especially in SRE. Take off with A2A, and then rearm with an A2G loadout.
15:04, you mixed up my precious Tim. Its the other way arround :P Love your videos! (The ADF versions get the tv guided missiles and the A versions get the aim7m's. )
Trading sparrows for bombs seems unnecessary. Just limit the load out if the player picks a CAS build, they don't need to take it's medium range capacity entirely.
Hey bro you being a youtuber can you express more the need for larger maps for top tier jets? I think you could help explaining why. Im willing to go into discord call and chat about it iv got some good points. There is a thread on forums for the rework of current maps into larger ec size for top tier jets. The biggest issue in top tier currently is that the games only last 2 minutes and are just mosh pits, from the start you are at a defensive from enemy radar tracking and just doesnt allow you to even setup before the game is already over. Maybe you can voice for everyone here guide them to forums and make it known we need this. This should only be for top tier in my opinion. People in 11.7 really love the ec maps, there has been alot of positive feedback in game chats and everyone i know. The poll has quit a big vote as well. I have never felt this so hard of a need since 11.3 but now the hardest ever felt with the 11.7. The bigger maps really do allow peoplw to use tye planes to their potential. We have radar so we can find enemy fast, we have the armament to engage at far, the power to get around very fast. Ec maps in top tier jets is like a buffed up much more entertaining prop game mach. The thread is called Poll for re work of current maps into EC maps for jets. Thanks man!
AIM-7's on American Vipers? Wasn't the whole deal about avoiding competition with the Eagle the main reason they were never carried and the first BVR weapon the F-16 got was the AMRAAM in the 90's? Or have i mixed things up here?
The ADF variant was made for ANG units, hence the Sparrows. These units would be protecting the country against Soviet bombers, so they’d need the BVR capability.
@@phoenix11fx45 completely forgot about those! But, weren't they hitting squadrons like at the start of the 90's or something? I was under the impression the current WT timeline is the late 70's and early 80's?
@@ilejovcevski79 Yeah they basically came online with ANG in the early 90’s. Also the game’s timeline is pretty cracked. I remember hearing something about having vehicles from 2020 now, but I forgot which ones.
Hey tim, loving your content. During the dev server there was a gyro and radar rangefinder working for 3rd person in air rb working, do you have any infos about it? Because it seems that i can't make it work. Thank you in advance best regards and have a nice day. P.S. There's a settings to be turned on or off in the Options Menu of War Thunder, it's located in the section "Air Battles" there's an option called, "Show Lead" despite this option acitvated i see no differences at all.
@@Daxored not really, there hasn't been much official talk about it. But it's still in the same shape as it was on the dev server and it hasn't been mentioned as being properly added yet. Also from what I saw in the datamines it doesn't factor in drag so it's not great as of now.
It works for me on the EJ Kai, although it doesn't seem particularly accurate. It should decouple your aiming crosshair from boresight and instead make it gyro-stabilized, so it calculates the lead to (presumably) whatever have locked up with the radar (or maybe to your gun convergence distance?). However it's not predictive like the arcade crosshair, and even with a good implementation it will be very inaccurate. It also requires you to be pulling a constant-g turn to stay accurate, so it doesn't work very well with the mouse aim system.
Hey man, nice video. I just wanted to ask when we can expect a video on the A-6E TRAM because I am thinking of buying it soon and I would love to see a video on it. Thanks
I mentioned this in my 2022 channel review - I'm trying a couple of slight alteration to my format for the aircraft review vids, so I can compare the statistics (view time, average view duration, etc etc) and see if it makes any difference. For example, the timestamps and on-screen chapter index right at the start. The "regular" intro may come back, its TBD.
@@marcusschriever4518 Yeah I'm watching comments about that - curious what people think. For my F-16 footage I muted the ingame music, and just threw the new warthunder soundtrack up as a subtle background track.
I see i am not the only one calling this thing Viper. :D "Viper" is (relatively) new F16V but "Rule of Cool" says every Falcon is Viper because it sounds better :D
I've always had the issue with radars wherein if I try a BVR shot, my radar loses lock after a little while. This happens on the EJ KAI, Tomcat and now F-16.
I think it's because different radar modes are not properly created in warthunder. Different pd modes could be swapped on the fly based on if bandit is notching, facing or turning. Also that fighting in real life took place at 5-10k so not much ground clutter to try and filter.
Yes, I mentioned it in my 2022 channel review - TLDR , my reviews of prop aircraft get like 1/3 the usual views of my jet reviews, so I don't do as many.
can someone please help me fix this. ive been grinding with my F-5c and for some reason after every match it says “modification research” even though ive researched everything for it and maxed it out. it takes 75% of my RP every match and instead of getting 15,000 RP, I only get 3,000 vehicle research.
There's nothing to fix, there is only one RP gain per match. This one value goes to modification and vehicle research, essentially showing you twice the total RP gain. So normally the mod and vehicle research is given around a 1:1 ratio. If you have all mods, the only relevant RP you get that's left is the vehicle research one. So you're not losing out on any vehicle research, other than the fact I'm guessing you're researching rank 8 using a rank 6 vehicle. That does give like a 40% RP penalty I believe.
Any DCS stan will tell you that your radar gripe is fixed in the BLK. 50 variants. The radar system moves friom between the legs to the MCDU's wich is a lot more usefull. But the MCDU the F16 A or ADF does have in warthunder is blocked off. so looks like we got gajined,..... again.
I just have to say - I had no idea the community had such a deep-seated hatred for the "fighter mafia" and did not expect the quantity of comments about the topic.
To be clear - I have no real opinion about them one way or the other, and they were only mentioned in the context of kicking the original LWFP into action that eventually led to the F-16. I may have articulated it poorly : I'm not giving them "credit" for anything in particular, but they were the ones who pushed for the initial LWFP funding - thats a matter of historic record. Past that, their influence on later developments (or how correct/wrong their analysis was) is up for debate.
As others have pointed out, yes I know they eventually went sour on it once the production plane got off the drawing board. Despite this, the F-16 that eventually got into the air was what they originally wanted - a light, agile, high-thrust dogfighter - even if they themselves eventually got pissy that the airforce gave it radar and all that. Folks can disagree with that opinion - that's fine, and its not anything I feel strongly enough about to really debate.
With one single-sentence bit of historical minutia, I'm certainly not trying to give them credit for the F-35 or whatever else they've tried to connect themselves to over the years. I mentioned them only because they pushed for a light, agile, dedicated dogfighter and lobbied for the LWFP's initial funding.
It's alright, you weren't really in the um... In the depths of it all, most sources sight them at least a bit, it just goes to show how much influence they've managed to make people believe they had.
It's nothing against you. It's not the sort of thing most people really think about anyway.
@@johnroscoe2406 i agree, your a great youtuber, not everyone can be in the know on everything
Convenient timing as laser pig just did a video dissing some old dead guy he never knew irl about events he never witnessed lol xd
@@mamarussellthepie3995 Dude, don't stick up for Boyd and Sprey. Just don't. They are/were habitual liars. ESPECIALLY Sprey.
I love how people are complaining about the F 16's turn performance, and when I look at replays they are trying to begin dogfights at mach 1.10 with AB on and no airbrakeing at all. I guess they are used to planes like the phantoms or Mig 21s that bleed speed pretty easily in turns, even with AB on. Not the case with this new generation of planes, designed to pick up speed quickly and retain it.
yeah in a flat horizontal turn the f16 holds speed at almost mach 0.8 forever on the g limiter on full afterburner. took me a while to learn that the plane needs airbrakes and no afterburner when you need maximum turn.
I started using the air breaks in the f16 and I feel like a 4.0 Japanese plane breaking the necks of anyone that tries to fight me.
I fucking love it.
The entire point of the F-16's design is high speed maneuverability. Gaijin had one job, and they of course fucked it up.
@@bigtony4930 Yes, I wonder how real world's F-16 has such a smaller turn radius than F-4, whereas in Gaijin world, F-16 just out turn by F-4E with 12G pull, what an amazing show.
@@bigtony4930 You have to understand, that pulling 7-8 gs at high speed IS high speed maneuverability for these mach 2 capable aircraft with insane engines... More than that, you would simply bend the airframe. No, you want to be subsonic for a dogfight, which is what the F 16 was designed for, dogfighting. But IRL, it's unlikely to get to a dogfight with modern missiles. SO, I'd say the flight performance is in line with what real modern supersonic jets are like. My dad flew the Hornet, you don't turn like a prop at high speeds,, and even if you did, you'd g loc and break the aircraft.
10:50 an He-51 valiantly rides into battle
Its funny because the Fighter Mafia hates this
Or sometimes loves it... depending upon what gets them noticed.
@@diegodollarhide6663 I mean they git exactly what they asked for twice.
i'm glad this is the top comment
Its funny how the fightermafia both claims that they have designed the F-16 and also claims it should have been designed without a radar (Or AG capabilities, which it wasnt but absolute excels in)
I HATE MIKE SPARKS I HATE MIKE SPARKS I HATE MIKE SPARKS
I HATE PIERRE SPREY I HATE PIERRE SPRAY I HATE PIERRE SPREY
Eventually you're going to need a two hour long radar video if gaijin keeps making them more and more realistic
Waiting for them to require us to manually tune pulse frequencies and shit ....
Radars need to get more advanced because if they dont you will start to see diminishing returns as planes get heavier and less maneuverable but their radars and avionics arent accurately modeled. As good as the F-16CG Blk 52 is in real life, if it was added to the game RIGHT now its only true positive feature would be that it can carry a bunch of AMRAAMs and its radar is semi decent at the cost of it being less nimble. If you want a somewhat close to accurate F-16CG Blk 52, we will need more features for radar
@@GRNbull98 bro a bunch of amrams would be terrifying
@@JetSabel
Insert maniacal laughing Typhoon/Rafale/Gripen lobbing Meteors downrange in about 12-18 months time.
@@JetSabel yeah but the F-16A ADF can carry a bunch of amraams too making the F-16CG Blk 52 not very special at all
Little tip from the real landing procedure that applies to the ADV and MLU - full pitch up on elevators acts as a secondary airbrake, helping to slow the aircraft down further.
The F-4E is totally unplayable at it's BR because of this update, and it was tenuous already with the F-14.
F104 italian main here, i feel you. Still need to do 2 starfighters before the f16.
bruh f4e mostly gets downtiered to 10.0 thanks to f5cs
I actually waited to spade it until after the update so I'd get the bonus rp towards the viper. It requires very specific and careful playstyles but I was got lots of matches with 2-3 kills. I absolutely agree that it doesn't belong at 11.0 and decompression is terribly needed, but it's not impossible to have success with it. That said, after I finished spading it I switched to the F-14 and immediately got 5 and 6 kill games. It should definitely be closer to the F-4C's BR then the F-4J, at least in Air RB. Sadly, BRs are based on combined performance in Air and Ground modes so if you only play one and not the other (like me) you're gonna have a hard time.
@@countbuggula Agreed, i do okay when i stay fast and aware, i get decent kills with it. But not sure if i'm good or the enemy is worse lol.
@CannedCoochie Yeah I think I had a harder time with the F-5E than the F-4E to be honest. At least with the F-4 I could attack other planes up high or deal with head-ons. With the F-5E I pretty much had to go up high, dodge phoenix missiles, hope nobody else came up too, and then dive on unsuspecting targets below me.
I love how MiG 29 looks, but F16 is the best one for now. Thank you for new video and deep review
F14 better
@@apathofpain I believe you
@@Pionel_pessi. nah. Explain me why R-60m is better than Aim-9L ?
@@Pionel_pessi. no no it doesn’t, R27s are not better than Aim 7Fs and R60M are not better than Aim 9Ls
@@apathofpain F14 ugly af
I love the clear glass cockpit in this plane. Was so blown away in the test flight. Would be so good for sim
My favorite aircraft, the right balance of visibility, maneuverability, and forgivingness
I am no Italy main, in fact I barely play Italy at all. But I am happy for them that they got the Tornado and F16 this Update.
One thing I love about your channel is the little bit of history you add to these videos.
Having a brief overview of where a plane came from often helps understand its performance.
"Why the hell can't my F-104 turn?!"
"Well, it wasn't designed to."
etc etc
watching this despite never playing with or against it
Thank goodness someone finally brought up the fly by wire system. I've seen so many reviews saying the F-16 can't turn but all they need to do is slow down a little bit and the plane really comes alive
Gaijin doesn’t realistically model damage models so a lot of planes can pull maneuvers that would tear them apart in real life. That’s why people are irritated
@@thatcarguydom266I think Gaijin has stated that planes are given an artificial 1.5x buff for wing strength to make ripping your wings less likely.
This however also means that planes can turn much tighter than IRL. But it also means that some planes bleed even more speed than IRL.
Imo the fly-by-wire system should also receive this 1.5x buff. Obviously this would lead to the plane bleeding more speed but it would make the plane handle in accordance with all the other planes in the game.
The fighter mafia wanted the f-16 to be a much lighter weight, radarless, daytime gunfighter. A dedicated, radar gunsight only dogfighter. They also wanted it to have lower fuel capacity, and no IFF. They were vehemently against any ground attack capability for the f-16. They decried that the designers should spare "not one pound for air to ground."
It is not entirely inaccurate to describe the f-16 being in part a result of their efforts, but it is, thankfully, far from the aircraft they actually envisioned.
Watching this while in queue with another 100k RP left
Enjoy it :)
Same, I’ve got another 60k RP left
Hey I know this is channel is pretty unrelated to historical stuff, but wasn't the "fighter mafia" not a huge fan of this plane and others because it ended up having a bunch of advanced technology?
Originally - loved it. After it got changed to a multi-role concept - hated it.
I was referring to the original lightweight fighter program study, and I'm honestly surprised that one trivial throw-away bit of trivia is generating so many comments. I guess I expressed it poorly.
@@TimsVariety yeah, none of us like the fighter mafia.
@@TimsVariety Oh word. Just saw you made a comment regarding that, mb I didn't see it before typing. Great vid as always!
@@TimsVariety The main thing is that the fighter mafia didn't really come up with anything, they just tended to whine about stuff and claim the credit after something got successful.
they wanted no radar non pilons only the gun or a 30mm gau and basicly hated any complex electronics
I loved the detail and information put into this video. I flew on your team yesterday on the Korea map Tim...enjoy the content and keep it coming brother!
The issue with their turning performance is that they have been limited to historical levels while every other plane gets a 1.5x bonus so they don't rip. If this limitation were even across all planes and phantoms were ripping their wings at 8.5g, I wouldn't have this complaint. However, this isn't the case, and has lead to the F-16 being nerfed compared to anything without a fly-by-wire system.
I understand you can greatly mitigate this issue by fighting at slower speeds without the afterburner. However, go try and pull more than 9g at any speed and you'll see that you can't. The F-16 ADA will not pull more than 9g at ANY speed. For the record, the Me-264 long range, 4 engine strategic bomber can pull more than 9g. The fact that the F-16 and mig-29 (to a lesser extent) have been limited so hard that certain bombers can out-pull them is a total meme.
I love the F16, I'm very happy to have it in the game, can't wait to try it on SIM
It's a beast in sim. First time out went 22:2 and my wingman went 21:7.
Same, I’m almost there
@@sometoastxd daamn hahaha I want to try it already!!! XD
These reviews are great and have a gold-standard format.
Even shows the cockpit! Great structure.
I had a duel in sim while flying the mirage, they're pretty close as far as agility goes, and the mirage was one of the most agile jets in the game.
Thanks for including the details on the different versiona dn great reveiew!
i think ( not sure ) that the fighter mafia just claimed the idea and prestige of the F 16
The closest things they had to do with it was one of them made a wing sweep diagram for the f15 proposal and one whined about the f15 having “unnecessary things” such as a radar
They are the sole reason the F-16 and the F-15 exsit as they are so it's earned.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough Hold up hold up, I know I'm not an aviation expert, nor am I in the air force (working on that pilot's license as I'm old now), but I read about these guys and it seems like what they wanted fighter jets to be like is not at all like how they are in real life. Like basically remove all the stuff that makes them good is what they wanted.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough that's so laughably false. The people who were "part of the team" did things like budget analysis and programming for programs they tested basic wing designs. Their parts in any of these projects are no different than any other basic engineer who helped with a landing gear hydraulic strut or CPA who did something with accounting for the projects. They circle jerk themselves to stay relevant and continue to make money.
did not think one of the first things i hear after i woke up to be the 'Fighter Mafia' gee thanks Tim
The most craziest thing of all, is the lightweight fighter mafia wanted a radar less supersonic gunfighter with IR guided missiles very much like the F-5A, but the YF-16 and YF-17 ended up with a radar.
As times goes by, the lightweight fighter mafia allowed the prototypes to be equipped with a simpler radar. The YF-16 and YF-17 were meant to be equipped with APG-159. Each prototypes will be equipped with turbojet engines( J-79 for YF-16 and J-101 for YF-17) in accordance to the lightweight fighter mafia's cost effective principles. But later on, the F-16A swap for F100 and APG-66. Instead, the export version did have the APG-159 and J-79 configuration.
I hope that Fighter Mafia reference was a joke.
The fighter mafia had nothing to do with the development of the f-16, John Boyd and reformers had almost nothing to do with the development of the f-16, these people were essentially glorified analysts with token desk jobs that got in their positions by pulling strings and being well connected. This is just scratching the surface of a much larger and longer story that I just don't want to get into because this is a comments section of a warthunder video. I don't blame you at all for thinking these things and ultimately this discussion is harmless as its just a game, and its just a fighter plane that's existence likely doesn't affect anyone in this comments section directly.
F104 out handles this plane, I have it and the Mig 29, Mig always wins in a rate fight. No other plane limits Gs artificially like this one, if you want to claim historical accuracy add the perfect radar gunsight.
In your video, you’re stuck at 7G turns waaaay below Mach.
Tim I have the utmost respect for you and your content. So I hope in my heart that crediting the fighter mafia with any degree of competence must be a joke.
I hope one day we have more interactive and historical cockpits. But man this plane is outstanding I cannot believe its in WT
When the plane is so good that one of its main weaknesses is the lack of a drag chute…
here’s the thing you see the f16s fcs is limiting the plane a lot more than it should and that’s just a gaijin issue. Just because you are a partner with gaijin doesn’t mean you can’t be honest. The itr and nose authority at higher speeds is extremely sub par and makes it a pain at times to get your nose around or point it at aiming passing by. It also makes notching sarh missiles annoying at times as if you don’t start turning early you won’t be notching at all
Oh man this guy really had no idea how airplane guys think about John Boyd and Pierre Sprey?
Theyre about as loved as McNamara..
i am really looking forword to the other ones like f15 and f18
seeing a Hornet is going to be crazy, can't wait for that moment
the optimal turn speed is between 650 and 750 kph or 350-400 knots. those who say it turns like the F-104 at high speed they are right but for the wrong reason. the 104 can't turn because it has no wings, the F-16 has a FBW G limiter that prevents over G based on weight. and before you talk about the F-5 and other older planes pulling 12 or 14G, these planes didn't have a limiter and irl pilots would feather the controls to avoid pulling that many G because 12G can be fatal in seconds while it also causes a lot of damage to the plane. in game that's not an issue. the pilot won't die of over G and short of outright breaking the wings, no damage is done to the plane so you can pull as much as you want.
love listening to your videos while on the treadmill!
just purchased all of US tank VII as well as a ton of tank VI and the entire naval fighter tree i had waiting for the SL sales, and bought a talisman for the tomcat, ready to grind the falcon
10:34 quick correction: MLU does get Mike Sparrows, as seen in the screenshot at 5:00
Good catch, that one slipped through editing.
@@TimsVariety Haha, Still a great vid nonetheless!
@@rnzafdude Every now and then a goof like that makes it through the editing/preview process. Usually people catch it pretty quick though :-)
I enjoy playing this plane in first person with full real sim controls more than Mouse & Key. Manual stability control to unlock extra AoA or Dampening mode makes energy management stupid easy. The cockpit glass is an amazing advantage paired with awesome HUD and weapons. I do this in Air RB.
Is the f16 really better at rate fighting than mig 29??? I always rate fight between 430-450 kt with low fuel in f16 and I still get out rated by a decent mig 29 pilot. I’ve been told that the f16 in warthunder is more of a one circle fighter. Any thoughts? I play sim only.
The cockpit on this thing is amazing for sim
Now I can pretend I'm flying the F-2 while the F-2 doesn't get added
The Viper Zero is far better than these F-16 variants currently in game; it's radar is a good example.
@@solowingborders3239 Shhhh. Don't tell the other Japan mains. They've just gotten hopeful with the announcement of another Rank 8 for Japan
I bet it's the F-15J, and that's gonna be fun!
There is a great Japanese F-2 lookalike skin on warthunder live
@@solowingborders3239 if Japan gets the F15 before the US I'll never again complain about Japan getting neglected LoL
Just two things, the MLU actually gets sparrows, it also has a drag chute to help with slowing down, but it cuts at ≈ 110km/h / 60kt for some reason
Thanks for putting out these updates on new planes. Gaijin changing what defines top tier each patch is making it a little hard to keep up. I don’t have time to grind out all the new planes so at least know what I am up against is really helpful.
Do you think the F4J stands a chance anymore? Is it worth crewing in the current environment of top tier?
F4J as well with the F4EJ Kai for Japan are the two best F-4 phantoms still competitive at top tier. I'm an EJ Kai pilot and I love and think of the F-4J as a worthy opponent. o7
@@crazymixture57 thanks for the vote of confidence, I’ll give the F4J a try. o7
Also the F-4J has a Helmet mounted Sight
How do you switch radar lock so easily? Do you have turn off/on and lock on the same button?
An awesome jet i'll probably take two years to get but i'm sure it'll be worth it playing italy when the time comes
please do not credit the fighter mafia for anything
Thanks Tim. Enjoyed the video. I worked on F-16s. One of my favorites.
I hope they will put the 360 gallon external wing tanks in game one day. Ready for the blocks with the GE engine.
Awesome review Tim, thank you
Currently grinding the US F-16A ADF, I regret going for MiG-29 first
Really looking forward the the radar video.
Oh hey I get to see myself in this this video, wild :V When I saw you in that match I was wondering if I was going to end up in a video. Cool stuff
Love the F-16 but as Japanese main I'm looking forward to the F-2 to come next year
Thanks, Tim!
You can say F-16's turn is okay at trans sonic speed , but compared to F-4E and F-14, MiG-23, it is bad. Needless to say, here on earth F-16 is reknown of its agility and wins over these three big time. F-16's performance may follow earth verison's logic and pull 8,9G, but the rest of the planes follow Gaijin world magic and pull 12G, that is why people complain.
EXACTLY DUDE... You cant have 1 plane follow IRL logic wile every other is on warthunder logic... 9g lock wile other people are at 13g!!! Its a glorified f104
Between the Viper and the Fulcrum, going to be interesting to see how people adapt to such a surplus of engine power. Going to have to relearn Corner Speeds and Max Rate speeds, something that even DCS players struggle with.
Hey Tim, i dont know if you readed my comment entirely last time so ill put it up there again just in case :
Once you'll make the review for the new mirage 2000D ( dedicated bomber version ), can you please try to see if it can destroy a base in 1 bomb run only without needing a second one and mention it in your review pls, its really important to me because i think that a dedicated bomber actually need to be able to do that if it wants to be called like so...
Ty very much Tim :)
I saw, there will be base-bombing analysis, no worries
@@TimsVariety tysm :)
I wonder if WT will ever add stuff like F16XL, F-15 S/MTD and more.
Hey, what do you think about the F-16AJ that was seen in the dev stream? Ahistorical? Justified? Necessary? I'm interested.
Noticed a mistake, you kept saying the MLU variant has no sparrows, it does have the 7F sparrow while the ADF variant gets 7Ms
Yep, that slipped through editing.
@@TimsVariety Correcting my correction, on dev server the MLU gets 7Fs but now on the live server it gets 7Ms like the US and Italian ones
love the videos keep the good work up!:D merry xmas
Yet as soon as you hit Mach 1 it handles like an f104 lol
Don't get me wrong, I'm having a lot of fun in this thing, I just unlocked it (for free, unlike some others that just just paid money for it in the first hour of the update) a few hours ago and I'm having a blast, I'm just shocked at the lack of maneuverability at high speeds, I feel like the F14 would mop the floor with this thing. Unless it's literal skill issue?
The F14 should mop up at speed. You have to remember that's kinda its whole thing. The f16 is designed as a classic dogfighter so it's best in a sub sonic turn fight.
But with the massive fur balls due to maps designed for props, slow = death
I think the fighter mafia loved this plane until it was designed to be actually useful (given ground attack capabilities, radar, missiles, and drop tanks)
Okay so if everyone's talking about the throwaway "fighter mafia" comment instead of the actual review, I'm going to talk about how that MiG 23 intercepted your missile at 9:10 instead of the actual review.
Yeah ... in the moment, I was thinking ... "Did that just fucking happen? ... ok, that HAS TO go in the review."
So are you Saying the Climb rate and top speed of the Block 15 is lower because of Statcard ingame , or because Other sources say This?
Im asking because i wouldnt Trust the statcard ingame and its Most likely wrong.
Why do missiles keep exploding way before they reach their target? Is that just a glitch in the game they never bother to fix? Great video btw. Working the American tech tree for everything, ground, air, and sea, and I am really excited to be able to get this plane now
I’m pretty sure it’s a bug with the seeker for the 9L’s, but for sparrows they self destruct when a lock is lost
Missiles detonate after they lose their target
You forgot to mention that the Chinese MLU gets the AIM-7F. It’s literally the best one and way more versatile.
Especially in SRE. Take off with A2A, and then rearm with an A2G loadout.
Aim7 L is way better as i testted
15:04, you mixed up my precious Tim. Its the other way arround :P Love your videos! (The ADF versions get the tv guided missiles and the A versions get the aim7m's. )
Yep, that slipped through editing.
Wrong the ADF is Sparrows AIM-7Ms and the As are TV missiles. You can check the planes.
@@gtmike916 omfg the mindfuck xD
Dont worry its a mig-23mld, it is a premium jet so it wont cost much to spawn it back in it sim battles
Trading sparrows for bombs seems unnecessary. Just limit the load out if the player picks a CAS build, they don't need to take it's medium range capacity entirely.
I'm just really disappointed that I cant clap cheeks in the j7e anymore without any threat 😖
For how much time the f14A early stand in service? They did used aim 7M?
9:09 holy intercept missile batman!
isn't the fighter mafia some fake bs or something?
Yes they were whiney children who wanted to waste billions and are only famous because they have friends in high places.
Air National Guard
Hey bro you being a youtuber can you express more the need for larger maps for top tier jets? I think you could help explaining why. Im willing to go into discord call and chat about it iv got some good points. There is a thread on forums for the rework of current maps into larger ec size for top tier jets. The biggest issue in top tier currently is that the games only last 2 minutes and are just mosh pits, from the start you are at a defensive from enemy radar tracking and just doesnt allow you to even setup before the game is already over. Maybe you can voice for everyone here guide them to forums and make it known we need this. This should only be for top tier in my opinion. People in 11.7 really love the ec maps, there has been alot of positive feedback in game chats and everyone i know. The poll has quit a big vote as well. I have never felt this so hard of a need since 11.3 but now the hardest ever felt with the 11.7. The bigger maps really do allow peoplw to use tye planes to their potential. We have radar so we can find enemy fast, we have the armament to engage at far, the power to get around very fast. Ec maps in top tier jets is like a buffed up much more entertaining prop game mach. The thread is called Poll for re work of current maps into EC maps for jets. Thanks man!
I can't wait for F15 and SU27. Both my two favorite planes
Coming in 23 hopefully
AIM-7's on American Vipers? Wasn't the whole deal about avoiding competition with the Eagle the main reason they were never carried and the first BVR weapon the F-16 got was the AMRAAM in the 90's? Or have i mixed things up here?
The ADF variant was made for ANG units, hence the Sparrows. These units would be protecting the country against Soviet bombers, so they’d need the BVR capability.
@@phoenix11fx45 completely forgot about those! But, weren't they hitting squadrons like at the start of the 90's or something? I was under the impression the current WT timeline is the late 70's and early 80's?
@@ilejovcevski79 Yeah they basically came online with ANG in the early 90’s. Also the game’s timeline is pretty cracked. I remember hearing something about having vehicles from 2020 now, but I forgot which ones.
Hey tim, loving your content. During the dev server there was a gyro and radar rangefinder working for 3rd person in air rb working, do you have any infos about it? Because it seems that i can't make it work. Thank you in advance best regards and have a nice day.
P.S. There's a settings to be turned on or off in the Options Menu of War Thunder, it's located in the section "Air Battles" there's an option called, "Show Lead" despite this option acitvated i see no differences at all.
It's still work in progress
@@sometoastxd Do you have any forum link or whatsoever?
@@Daxored not really, there hasn't been much official talk about it. But it's still in the same shape as it was on the dev server and it hasn't been mentioned as being properly added yet. Also from what I saw in the datamines it doesn't factor in drag so it's not great as of now.
It works for me on the EJ Kai, although it doesn't seem particularly accurate. It should decouple your aiming crosshair from boresight and instead make it gyro-stabilized, so it calculates the lead to (presumably) whatever have locked up with the radar (or maybe to your gun convergence distance?). However it's not predictive like the arcade crosshair, and even with a good implementation it will be very inaccurate. It also requires you to be pulling a constant-g turn to stay accurate, so it doesn't work very well with the mouse aim system.
what's the music in the background? does war thunder have a real soundtrack now?
Yes, its the new war thunder OST
I got the mig 29 and I had 26k ge so I’m happy I was able to get this too
How is the f16 when belly landing?
Hey man, nice video. I just wanted to ask when we can expect a video on the A-6E TRAM because I am thinking of buying it soon and I would love to see a video on it. Thanks
Not for at least a week or two - HUGE list to get through with apex predators
@@TimsVariety Ok, thanks.
What's the difference between the fighting falcon and the viper?
Same thing. Officially called fighting falcon, with the nickname viper
whats the song in the background?
The War Thunder OST from the new update.
@@TimsVariety thanks
What happened to your intro music? When I heard it, I knew I was watching a Tim's Variety video.
I do loke the background music in the videos though
I mentioned this in my 2022 channel review - I'm trying a couple of slight alteration to my format for the aircraft review vids, so I can compare the statistics (view time, average view duration, etc etc) and see if it makes any difference. For example, the timestamps and on-screen chapter index right at the start.
The "regular" intro may come back, its TBD.
@@marcusschriever4518 Yeah I'm watching comments about that - curious what people think. For my F-16 footage I muted the ingame music, and just threw the new warthunder soundtrack up as a subtle background track.
Holy jesus christ
The F15 is gonna fit into the meta so wellllll xD
I see i am not the only one calling this thing Viper. :D "Viper" is (relatively) new F16V but "Rule of Cool" says every Falcon is Viper because it sounds better :D
Totally gotta retcon every F-16 into being The Viper ;-)
For landing you have to do aerobraking and it’ll slow down real fast
13:50 "supersonic bf109" oh God, what would that look like?
Pain. It would look like pain.
I've always had the issue with radars wherein if I try a BVR shot, my radar loses lock after a little while. This happens on the EJ KAI, Tomcat and now F-16.
I think it's because different radar modes are not properly created in warthunder. Different pd modes could be swapped on the fly based on if bandit is notching, facing or turning. Also that fighting in real life took place at 5-10k so not much ground clutter to try and filter.
u can try turning off pulse dopler to regain the lock it might help
I read the f16s top speed is about 2100kmh so how come it only reaches 1500kmh in war thunder?
May have to climb. A lot of these jets can only hit their top speeds at high altitude with long acceleration.
Can you describe what the pulse doppler radar does compared to other modes?
Search my channel vids for "complete guide to radar"
Would be sick in a diff game mode without markers (no not sim)
I was wondering if you’re gonna cover more Prop aircraft?
Yes, I mentioned it in my 2022 channel review - TLDR , my reviews of prop aircraft get like 1/3 the usual views of my jet reviews, so I don't do as many.
Speaking of the reformers M113A8 Aerogavin when ?
i shake my head every time some one talks about the fighter mafia
can someone please help me fix this. ive been grinding with my F-5c and for some reason after every match it says “modification research” even though ive researched everything for it and maxed it out. it takes 75% of my RP every match and instead of getting 15,000 RP, I only get 3,000 vehicle research.
There's nothing to fix, there is only one RP gain per match. This one value goes to modification and vehicle research, essentially showing you twice the total RP gain. So normally the mod and vehicle research is given around a 1:1 ratio. If you have all mods, the only relevant RP you get that's left is the vehicle research one.
So you're not losing out on any vehicle research, other than the fact I'm guessing you're researching rank 8 using a rank 6 vehicle. That does give like a 40% RP penalty I believe.
@@Wotplaya4 that makes sense. thank you
I'm getting this once i'm done suffering with a stock F5E
Any DCS stan will tell you that your radar gripe is fixed in the BLK. 50 variants. The radar system moves friom between the legs to the MCDU's
wich is a lot more usefull. But the MCDU the F16 A or ADF does have in warthunder is blocked off. so looks like we got gajined,..... again.
I’d love to see Gaijin add the YF-17 and F-111B into the game