Will This Change Criterium Racing Forever? (NCL Miami Beach PRO race)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2023
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Honestly it seems like the perfect format for EJ who likes to nuke it out of every corner / sprint for the line each lap, haha
No, believe me, that requeries even more thinking )
You are the first person I have heard with nothing but excitement for NCL. Criterium Nation and Slow Ride Podcasts were having a lot of doubts.
I understand doubts, and it seems like it's just plain and simply a lot... more. But hey, it seems fine so far. We'll see how it plays out after a while.
I think one thing he said is pretty important; something to the effect of it being for the fans.
Those guys are conservative af and are anti-change. It's good to see new interest and experiments in this sport. It's ALL good
@@genegade I don't think you understand. The NCL is nearly broke. Blew through about $4M by end of March. They blew everythign on the teams and the cost of the Miami race. Their CEO and spokesperson is no longer there and they're desperate for another round of investment. They've done a LOT of bad practices that weren't covered by Slow Ride and Crit Nation, but those guys know all about it. They didn't have enough money to hold the Atlanta race which is why they cancelled the permit and are holding at a race course in the middle of nowhere. For example, they've contacted many of the sponsors from various teams looking to get those sponsors to support the NCL. Some things about their format has potential, but leadership at the NCL has go to go. Having 2 teams owned by the league while the others are not, seriously now.
I heard of a Madison Crit that was in Australia about 15 years ago. Normal Madison rules like on the track, but on road bikes on a crit circuit.
I´m from Argentina, we have this kind of rules in some races, but, the race lasts 90 minutes, there´s a Sprint every 10 minutes, that give 5,4,3,2,1 points and the last one double the points. The rider who laps the field also gets 10 points. It makes a very different racing dinamic and strategy wise gets pretty tricky sometimes. In this case with the NCL rules i think that one sprint per lap is a bit too much, but it adds something else to racing at least.
Cuáles son esas carreras y dónde las hacen?
@@papitoimperialista en Paraná, Entre Ríos. Pero no siempre se corre con esa modalidad
Cool format! Its almost like a combination of points and madison race formats from the track discipline. Even just borrowing more ideas from track racing could lead to some pretty cool variations (elimination race?). Happy to see something new in road racing!
It’s actually a tempo, but with points awarded three deep each lap as opposed to only one point per lap.
3:25
How to describe RGT without mentioning Zwift lol
Reinardt Janse van Rensburg is actually the current South African criterium champion (first year the format was contested). He was the road champion last year, but took the silver medal this year.
This format is great because it's very spectator friendly. Most importantly it captures the attention of the causal fan and non cycling fans. Hopefully, new fans means more opportunity to gain new sponsors outside of the industry.
Ah, we're adopting the Points (or Tempo) race format from track racing. Some great cross-pollination!
Been following NCL since I first heard of it. I think it's a really cool idea, but am skeptical of it lasting. The first event was an incredible production, but there's 4 months between the first and the final three all crammed into august/September. I wish they could have at least done one race a month just to start fleshing out the concept and letting the teams get a feel for it.
also, jesus what a ride. especially for your weight (and for no subs!). those w/kg are insane. would love the HR data! kudos
This type of Race format is perfect for EJ!!
😂😂😂
The new format is fun. I say there is room for this and the traditional races. Both will have their pros and cons.
Interesting format. I’m kinda skeptical of the unlimited substitutions and scoring. I absolutely understand wanting to make it more exciting for the audience but with only 3x points for winning compared to just being first in a single lap, that takes away a lot of excitement towards the end? I don’t know, I feel like if I was there I would just be spending a lot of time looking at the score screen and points going up. Also, unlimited substitutions makes the tactic completely different, wouldn’t this become all about just establishing a breakaway and then switching members all the time to keep it going? But also not going too fast to the point where you lap the field and you lose your points every lap.
Isn’t tactics how all forms of racing are won? It’s only four races, something different is needed in the sport so I’m all for the craziness.
Thanks as always for the great content! It will be very interesting to see how the other teams adapt to the strategy of this format.
what an awesome crit format. so much borrowed from track racing points races. the series will reward the dedicated full teams that show up to all 4 races and have their races tactics dialed. this format requires sophisticated race team tactics that for sure will continue to evolve. a little unfortunate for smaller teams who can't always bring a full squad...but what's to stop a team from sticking a jersey on hired gun crit mercenaries...i.e. "one day only team members"....part of the strategy becomes arranging for your mercenaries at each location while some "core" team members travel to all races....I wonder why Legion was not there.....
@@samuelberkun4466 we will know if the NCL is copying Legion if NCL doesn't pay the winners. and its not a copy anyway, Legion insisted on *owning the rights* to the teams competing in their race league, and their "big idea" was...jerseys with names on them? how creative. Legion is a one-trick pony anyway...NCL is basically a points race with subs and does not favor a full contact lead-out train.
@@etapepartners NCL wants the same thing, ownership of all the teams. Only they realized that they can't handle that and were forced to ask other teams to join. Also, the NCL owned teams are so much more well funded and therefore better than the league teams that it's basically a joke. No amount of tactics from slower riders will beat the NCL teams.
@@thhorwitz1 unless there is a rule against it, a team comprised of elite mercenaries can win....i.e. a "team" of hitters who only come together to race NCL 4 times per year with disciplined race tactics .
@@etapepartners I'll put it like this. The riders on the NCL teams are paid between $45k - $70k per year to race. They took the best riders from the best teams racing crits in the US. Are they beatable, absolutely, but the teams capable of being competitive have good reasons why they chose not to participate in the NCL this year.
I finally got around to watching this in GCN just two days ago. A few items to iron out with the points, as you alluded, but overall it was great to watch! I hope it can grow this year and beyond
Looks like so much fun. Looks like they've combined elements of criterium and a Madison track formats. Once I'm done watching the Giro I'm gonna check this out. That is crazy fun format for spectators and opens up a lot of (ie. complicates!) strategy for the racers.
This has a great deal of potential, and given that this was the first race, it held up well. Need to get some spreadsheets and strategy software to model different tactics and see which ones should bring you out on top.
I think it seems pretty cool. It does not eliminate strategy but really blows up the athleticism level and makes every lap exciting. I'm a passionate cyclist but only occasionally watch race highlight videos as I find actual racing a bit boring to watch live / the whole thing. So this is tentatively quite cool / exciting...
Milwaukee Superweek had points races back in the 80's. I recall points were every 5th lap with double points for the finish.
Great to see you NorCal guys here in Miami. Awesome race!!!
I LOVE the combined mens/womens scoring and I think that having a points system is good for keeping it engaging for viewers before the finish. I do think they should veer away from EVERY lap with points though. It feels like it cheapens the experience/suspense of each points opportunity and if it was more like every three laps with maybe every 9th worth more and then the last lap even more it would help make scoring more significant, and also align the strategy a little better with normal crits with primes worth various amounts, which I think would make it more relatable to racers. Some tweaking would be good, but overall I think it's a positive.
Fun event. Very fast. There were also did some group rides that were great to bring more awareness and interact with the locals.
Seems like the perfect format for EJ with those 1000 watt pushes.
Its always fun to see new formats and some innovation in the sport. I'm excited too about the future!
Excited to see more of this! 🔥🙌🏼
Oh yea this is exciting! I think even the qualifying being a little bit of a spectacle, maybe it will get more people who are not bike riders a good example of a gateway to get them to ride.
it's a track points race on the road... and that makes it exciting.
It's similar to the Points Race, on the track, except it's, every lap.
This format reminds me of the German „Kriterium“ format. It’s basically a points race on a circuit. In Germany, it’s not points lap in every lap though, winners are individual riders and there’s no scoreboard.
On another note: One of the German amateurs riding a few races in the US recently for team DCC Alpecin was on the biggest German cyclist podcast „Besenwagen“. His remarks regarding the tensions between Legion and everyone else as well as the apparently very aggressive style of racing are really interesting. I don’t know about his English language skills but I think he’d be a very interesting guy to have on your show, too!😊
So this is essentially like a crit version of a madison.
hey jeff, im an amateur racer from germany and here we have those formats since i think forever - the system is basically a track points race adapted to a short road circuit. here we usually have like 60-80km on 1-2 km laps, first 4 riders get 5-3-2-1 every like 3-5 laps depending on course length, last one counts double. this format is a lot more exciting and i never really understood why US-Crits are always just first one to the line and thats it.
There are a number of smaller crits in the US that do the points exactly as you describe. But the reason no one likes it very much is because it makes for shitty racing. For example, let's say a break of 5 gets up the road, and the peleton knows it might take 15 laps to chase that back, well then why bother because in that 15 laps those riders will have won the race. It also means you can have 1 team just do a leadout every 5 laps and win the race. Plus at bigger races, it's impossible for spectators to follow what's going on.
God old Venetian causeway stopping you with boats passing but what a beautiful view it is!
The format sounds quite a bit like points racing on the track, except on the streets and with teams. Still, it seems like an exciting race format for Crit racing.
This format mirrors the Indoor uci Points track race held in velodromes
This point format has been in practice in Slovakia for many years
It was done just like this here in America too…35 years ago.
We often have crit races using this points per lap format here in Australia. It's great if you're not a good sprinter because you can rack up points in breakaways.
Huge fan of NCL format and founders!
I'm sure the heat was a factor and that east coast humidity we have is like a wet blanket. This is an interesting format. Triathlon created a new format, similar to this, that has more awards, penalties, and is more spectator friendly.
More attention equals more advertising which means more money which means better competition which means more attention which means better advertising which means more money... interesting stuff for sure.
I like it, it really pushes your team, instead of just sprinting at the end for the win.
Great marketing strategy. Going to see my first crit race here in ohio today . Just to get a feel for it.
Watching the race currently on GCN+ and love it! Very American style take on cycling if you ask me.
this seems like an amazing shake up in the sport!
Jeff!! We would LOVE to see you in one of these races!!!
EJ gonna love this format.
I love the idea of it, but noone has heard about it. I was trying to get friends to watch but it's only on gcn+ so thats a huge limiter. Also haven't seen it being hyped up anywhere really.
Similar to the Hammer Series Sprint. Sounds like a great format to shake things up!
Unlimited substitutions is pretty dramatic. Seems like you'd be best served by subbing someone every single lap, treat it kind of like line changes in hockey, trying to maximize everyone staying fresh. I'm excited to see more analysis about this format.
yeah, I'm shocked to hear that this team had five people on the track if they could have had 2-3 spots and extra subs. because running a whole grid, even if you were all the most powerful people there, only the top three can get points, so person 4-5 are out there sprinting for nothing?
Man this looks awesome! We need some of these Racers to try out our Pitbull bike pedal. The Kom would be the perfect one. Of course I would not want them to try it the very first time on one of these big nuke it races. But sure would like a pro Rider to give us a thumbs up!!
Awesome video. And explained better and for sure faster, than the GCN coverage did lol I caught bits of it live and then watched the recap and there wasn't a 101 on it. Needless to say I was confused. And sure there are legit doubts about whether this could work, but I agree that it's promising and is a great spectacle for the fans which will be massive. Us North Americans love, maybe even need, goals, points or whatever scored quickly, and often, so the lap points is smart. The financials will be the the biggest question mark and if the private backers can stick it out to start seeing a return. IIRC the MLS as a league only started making money a few years ago (much bigger scale, but starting something is hard, especially when incoming money sources are questionable)
You usually give an overall assessment, pros and cons. Do you see any problems with this league and the different rules and scoring system.
Really interesting format. The subs bring in some crazy tactics. You said unlimited subs outside of 5 laps to go, yeah? Imagine bringing in 1 of your 2 sprinters to nuke the 1st place points for one lap, subbing out, only to sub in a 2nd sprinter for the next lap. Then sub that second sprinter out as well. Both sprinters now rest for a bit, while the others in the team try and contest a few laps for themselves. Once the sprinters are fresh again, rinse and repeat step 1!. Then of course, as we saw in this race with the other team, rest your sprinters in the lead up to the final lap. Whichever sprinter feels freshest (or decided by scissors, paper, rock lol) subs in and nukes the final sprint.
Heh. Gnarly format.
Really interesting format. I'll be keen to see if any other races adopt it. I know this young man is someone to keep an eye on. Super strong and handles his bike really well. You guys mentioned the heat being a factor a few times. It's not the heat you CA boys can't handle, it's the humidity. When it's 90% humidity in the morning, or even higher, it's like trying to breathe through a damp rag. It's either 80F with 95% humidity early in the morning, or 95F with 70% humidity in the afternoon. Takes time to acclimate, even for those of us who live here.
Very cool. Most crits are terribly boring for spectators. Excited for all the big brain strategy to come with subs, etc.
Track racing on the road...with subs
Seems like it would benifit the strong teams even more.
It's like the Points Race from track racing. It should create action throughout the whole race.
Love the look of the new format
wow there were a lot of people there! thats awesome
When you run the videos id love to have the score of top 5 teams up on the corner. Let us see what the score is. Great video.
Its the hotel where Tony Montana got the yayo!
what a scene...
what was the requirements to join on your team sir?
i love it wish it was that way in the 80 90's godbless
isnt points every lap the classic crit format, at leas here in europe?
It would be really cool if they were able to do live power and speed readouts of people competing
So basically a track points race with every lap having point. Substitution is a wild card
So it’s a tempo
This looks awesome
Could be cool to see the standings during in the HUD in the video
really reminds me of track cycling
What kind of camera was the race footage recorded with?
Agree it's an interesting change in format. Def more exciting EACH lap...but not sure it's the perfect mix of excitement and BIKE racing, just yet. Will see how it evolves with input and a full season from the racers. I don't have any improvement ideas...just not sure yet. Kind of takes away the aspect of break aways in my opinion. How can you form a break at 38 each lap...lol. Exciting stuff non the less. I do like they are incorporating the women's teams as well!
It's brilliant idea for a race but it needs to be done on fixed gears and in triathlon speedos and maybe involve weapon power-ups somehow.
It would be nice to do some team time trail on the course like 2 laps and take the fastest lap to put you in ur spot
Cue the awesome Hammer series that sadly did not survive the pandemic
Before the breakaway can lap the field they'll probably be first for a couple of laps and gather more points than just the nine points for the lap
Reinhardt!!!🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Exciting! Come to Atlanta Jeff!! Love to see y'all race in person!
Interesting no doubt but what about solo or unattached riders?
People keep saying it’s like a points race on the track, but it’s really not. In a points race you sprint every several laps - which allows the spectators to watch the build up between sprints. That’s what makes it a fun race, and fun to watch.
Here, no single spectator on the course gets to see the build up because it’s happening every lap.
This is actually a modified tempo race from the track except points go three deep not just to the winner of each lap.
Which is challenging because the tempo is almost uniformly considered the least fun to race and the least fun to watch.
The best race to
borrow from the track would be the elimination, where the last water every lap gets carved off. Then, no matter where you are spectating from, you are watching the battle at the back of the pack.
Interesting format, but not really feeling the substitutions rule. I get that it makes for "more strategy" in the sense that using your substitutions wisely can make the race, but I also feel it leads to "less strategy" in the sense that recovery is sort of handed to you on a golden platter.
It looks like Hammer but for individual 🎉🎉🎉
Oh! Substitutions look wierd! So can I just skip a lap or two, substitutioning myself?
this is cool, kinda like track riding discipline. Cool to watch, but hard to follow if you don't have any way of tracking the positions/standings.
coverage on GCN+ did a good job of showing the scores and updating in real time. Pretty easy to follow.
So its a points race just slightly modified from the track.
Get a full squad with subs for these events. You'll definitely come out with prize money now that you know the strat and already placed well in the event.
The prize money is worth missing few days of work
Can you do an analysis of the women’s race?
+1
This could be the NBA of the cycling world.
So that’s basically just european crit racing. At least in Switzerland most of the crits are like that with the points…
Where was Legion? They seemed to be absent from this race.
Every lap a sprint 😱
This is like f1 show for cries, I’d watch that on tv coverage
This race format is so cool
This is fantastic! I just dont think youll get the American audiance to care about road racing and this feels more exciting. The prize money to effort ratio seems better than rr'ing too.
A format where you bash out 1000+ watts every lap? Has someone been looking at EJ's racing and thought "we need to make an event for THIS GUY"?
Mike's bikes should hire EJ 😂
Spectator satisfaction equals more prize money
basically track cycling outside.
Liv golf of cycling
I am still not sold on the points every lap, to me it was anticlimactic because it seemed like a lack of tactics. I almost feel like points every 5 laps would be better and making the last lap worth more.