Yeah, the winner deviated hard there. Definitely forced the other guy into the barriers. Would have been a relegation in a UCI race (if UCI enforced their rules…)
For qualifying, I think a solo hot lap (or two) would be more entertaining than an indoor w/kg test. Maybe throw in a team pursuit once in a while to keep things interesting 🔥 No tt-bikes or any special equipment, same kit as you race in.
If they want to do something more interesting for the qualifying positions, do what motorsports do and have solo hot laps. Each team selects one rider and they get one lap on the course. Gridding is determined by results of the hot laps. Furthermore, you could have potential prize money in later races if someone breaks the course record.
I like the idea of equal importance of the men's and women's teams. On the velodrome there is as much public interest in the women's competition as the men's, on the road it's quite different.
@@evankeane1 Glad you're okay! 3 years ago my cleat jammed and I couldn't get my foot down. Went over and fractured my hip. Now I have a titanium femur insert. Big owwee!
@evankeane1 bro you're fortunate. I've seen a kid land on dirt (MTB) like that and he had TBI from the brain sheering that occurred from the whip. Glad to hear you're doing well 💪
That was me in the crash, luckily no head or neck injuries thanks in part to my helmet. Ended up with 3 broken bones in my shoulder, broken rib, punctured lung and a vertebrae fracture.
@@evankeane1I had a similar thought about the crash and the way your head snapped back. I'm glad you didn't have a head or neck injury. Hope your recovery is going well.
Keeping track of points during a track race is a skill that takes years to to sharpen. With his years of experience, Bryan can keep track of everyone’s points and a lot more. With about one year of track experience, I keep track of points accurately about half the time.
Agree. It takes practice. Although I believe a track race is a lot easier to keep visual on the front than a crit race - number of riders and the whole course is always visible. A screen displaying points (accurately) Would be fine, you glance at it like a lap board. You should have a general idea but can help make decisions.
They have transponders and receivers at the pit and the finish line. Keeping track of points should be automated, requiring little or no human intervention at all.
With the points per lap and the benefits of working as a team, it seems it would be beneficial to have a radio system for each rider and a coach or manager at the line keeping track of points and updating the team with strategy recommendations (similar to big distance races like the Tour de France).
This isn't the first time an "NCL" has existed. There was an NCL in the early 90s with an identical format. Teams representing cities, points format on a crit course. Nothing was wrong with that league. Not the racers, not the format, not the courses or teams. The problem was with the people behind it. The one we had down here in NOLA, the New Orleans Fliers was backed by the king of all scoundrels. A real snake and figured out ways to remove money from all his friends pockets. If I recall, several teams were backed by not so honorable people. Hopefully this league will have better people behind it.
Don’t get me started on the ownership of the old NCL. They were clueless about the sport. Most of them just wanted to be able to say they owned a sports franchise. There were a few genuine nice people (Franco Harris and a couple of others), but the rest were just self-important Al Davis wannabes.
Hey Mr. Linder!! I race on the track. Points races are pretty straightforward as long as you understand how it works. It's a bit different compared to on the road. I've done road racing with points for each lap as well. There are specific laps for when the points are awarded. I love to watch your channel and I enjoy every video you make. Keep racing Mr. Linder!!! 🚴
I race on the track and it's fun to see the points racing format brought to road. At my track, points go 4 deep (5 3 2 1) and field sizes are much smaller. You do have to try to keep track of how many points you're on yourself, though our announcer is pretty good about commenting on the leaders. We'll typically do a points lap every 1200-2000 meters (not sure how that compares to this course).
Hi Jeff. Since there is a pit area, and a swap out of riders, this seems like a situation where a team crew chief would come into play. Almost like a NASCAR, someone coordinating the team from the pit. They would also be able to keep better track of the points, and then relay that to the riders. What's your thoughts on this?
Staggered lineup at the pit exit back into the race, first come first serve, camera at pit entry with a video relay over to put it exit to show who can re-enter. This allows official to keep eyes closer to put exit at all times. Or to expand on your idea of a light, there could be a display and each time team enters the pits, their chip triggers the system and that team’s logo pops up on the display and the stated rider re-enters the race.
About the qualifier- I did really like the fact that there was a qualifier, because it makes it into a two day spectacle, instead of just a 1h or 90min race. The extra energy I got from the crowd felt like a mountaintop finish in the tour, and I rode 100+w above what I thought I could for the first two qualifiers. Yes, it was relatively inconsequential in Denver, but in Miami it really gave the teams that qualified well an advantage in the pits. I agree with your idea of 30m between teams, as Denver did not qualify well, yet they were already contesting the sprint first lap. The sprints in Atlanta were super interesting, it did seem like there was a decent crowd for it being in the middle of nowhere. One of my main concerns with NCL is the venue. Miami was amazing, but they spent the majority of their location budget on it, so they had to settle for an office park crit in denver. Atlanta was an amazing venue, but with the crowd being so far away there was zero energy from that during the race. Anyways apologies for the ramble, but it was a great series to race this year and I’m excited to see how it continues in the future.
For subbing I’d suggest a “tag”. The start line is to the left and finish to the right and once your teammate crosses you can see them and go. Official is there to sure people tag correctly. You’d have to design the subbing area creatively but something like that.
This is awesome. I like how you make to comparison on PRO organizations. My take is that I just don't feel like their is enough armature crit racing in most states. I feel like if you don't live in California, Colorado, Chicago, New York, Miami you just can develop in this style of racing. How can one even considere racing if you can't do it locally. Again, it's a cool concept but they don't even have crit racing at a college level.
Love how generally positive you are about it and I'm going to stay curious about the NCL's possibilities. I do worry that it's really hard to create crit racing that is interesting from a media perspective, and without media interest it will be hard to drive sustainable economics into the sport. So the open questions are, Does the NCL format solve this problem? and Is the complexity of the format a support for, or barrier to, fan engagement? I look forward to your ongoing thoughts about it Jeff - nice piece here.
The point system is how crits are raced here in Europe. In Germany theyre called Kriterium. A normal race is called Rundstreckenrennen, which basically means circuit race.
In the US a circuit race is about a 5k or longer loop and typically without many corners. A US criterium is usually 1-2K roughly, often closer to 1k. The races the Atlanta and Dnever NCL races are hardly crits, Denver comes closest.
agree that one hot lap for qualifying would be awesome. also seems there were some things your team did not plan ahead about and needed to pay attention to. And if you dont' know, ask before hand. (points for qualifying, remembering to look at the screen between laps to see point tallys, and planning ahead when to pull off and how long each rider should get in the pit) So maybe a bit of learning to do on both sides of the fence. Great to see and let's hope this continues to build and the money follows.
In track racing, we say "if you can do points math, you're not racing hard enough". So, yes, it's hard to keep track of points at the track too! That's what announcers are for. And if all else fails, it's never a bad idea just to ride your best race, regardless of the points standings.
There's an old saying from horse racing; "you can make a small fortune in racing, especially if you begin with a large one". Option 3 for exchanges-hand sling in like the Madison race
Points race on the track is every few laps, not every lap. I think that would also improve this, I kinda feel the points every lap prevented the race from developing as much
I'm interested to see how quickly the NCL takes your suggestions and makes them part of racing. They should hire you as a consultant! I agree a solo hot lap instead of stationary testing would be way more exciting.
Damn that barrier placement after the apex of corner 4 is really scary. It's 100% clear why that guy smashed into it so hard and went flying. ughghhhhh
Here's my pit solution - rolling starts! There should be a pit length set where the one coming into the race gets a rolling start. The person coming into the pits pedals into the pit lane and keeps going. The person going out will be getting up to speed. They reach a line in the pits where the one entering the pits has to go over first and then the teammate is hopefully close to approaching that speed and crosses the line second and is now in the race and can exit the pit. If the one entering the race crosses the line first, a penalty can be imposed. Would require some distance (and width if multiple riders are coming in at the same time), but would lessen the impact of starting from zero.
Atlanta was the only race that was fun to watch this season. Hoping for more dynamic racing like that next season and hopefully support for lower categories at each of these.
I'd love to see a crit series for "masters" riders. I'm turning 64, and I cannot generate the kind of power guys in their 20s and 30s can muster, but this looks like hella fun!
I know it’s late, but here is what I think will be awesome. So for starting position, a prologue of 4-5k or even less distance on race gear (race bike etc). The race itself should be first over the line wins, points are still good to have but make it every 2-4 laps or so. Kind of like a scratch points race on the track. Still have a jersey and winner for the points but not the overall. I’d also scrap the substitute, it’s too finicky.
Did you ever think of trying some smelling salts right before the final sprint? I know many lifters use them when going for PRs so I was wondering if it could translate over to some big power outputs.
Regarding substitutions - how about Medison-like implementation plus electronic limitation (just by tracking) on where each riders can ride and where they can't?
Very interesting concepts! Re the substitutions: Really cool but couldn't help being reminded of a Madison track race here. Thinking they might try, instead of electronics, a long parallel lane for riders to get up to speed, perhaps even giving a slingshot assist for their entering teammate! One other thought here - I don't think a w/Kg test is automatically such a bad thing. Personally I think adding such measure to the racing might provide some net positives. 1. It gets the fast riders to the front so they're not filtering through the pack at the beginning of a race. They lead and others draft or fall off. 2. It might be exciting for spectators to get a chance to see what the riders can do in raw power. Then if they win with low power a spectator might even learn tactics play a role! 3. Riders still get to display their mad handling skills in the race so it's not really taking anything away while adding a new layer of
I subscribe to GCN+ (admittedly mostly for MTB and CX coverage) but didn't know about this. Will definitely go watch it, get some viewer numbers for it over there.
In endurance car racing qualifying is a spectacle, it doesn’t matter as much where you start for a 24 hour race. I think the watt per kg test would be a spectacle for the spectators if there was a two day event and it was junior racers the day before
Cat 4 on the track here. I can usually do my own math, but it's hard to keep tabs on anyone else's points personally. But the announcer is never out of earshot so if you haven't gone completely cross-eared you can usually get an idea of what's going on. Then again, we all know race brain is very real and it's easy to lose your critical thinking to the overwhelming call "GO FAST TURN LEFT."
Ditto. Raced track cat 2 for many years, and I was never particularly good at keeping track of other people's scores. But that being said, even in the few big events I did, you didn't have more than maybe 40-50 riders, so this is already hugely different. And you can see the field at all times on the track, so if you're in a break of 3 or less riders, you can keep an eye on who's getting the remaining points. I've never been to a really high level track event, I'm guessing that have a leaderboard, and this probably has that? So you can see the tally while you're racing.
@@fabric5000 In the NCL riders don't collect points, only the teams do. So you don't have to listen to and remember every single rider's points (that'd be impossible, obviously). You only have to be aware of the 10 teams including yours.
From the beginning, I thought NCL should run a day’s races like a track Omnium: scratch race, tempo, elimination, points. I think that would be much more entertaining for the spectators.
@@andrasszabo1570 I still don’t see how any racer is keeping track of another team’s points. I think at the end of the day they are just going for it, trying to win as many laps as possible and hoping they come out on top.
I think with some tweaks it could really take off! It's engaging, you really need to strategize with the subs to who starts on the grid and if that other team rider get into the pits, do we also pit to mark him. The crit scene has riders with personality like in F1, it is a good watch.
They should do something similar to track elimination race instead of points where the last rider gets eliminated until the last lets say 15 riders are left and then two laps for the win for example..that would be exciting crit racing
Love this whole idea. Gives it a much more accessible feel (in my mind) to the people that maybe aren't quite so interested in bike racing generally. As regards the substitutions; playing ice hockey I'm used to giving a max sprint effort for a minute or so then coming off and recovering for twice that amount of time, but in my sport it's easy to change with another player and can generally be done pretty smoothly when everyone knows how to do it. The issue here is that every time you sub, you lose time. Doesn't matter if your guy is coming in from the lead, mid-pack or dead last, you WILL lose time just from the fact that you're having to come from a standing start, unless the entry and exit are a LONG way apart and as you said, if you're not putting in a max effort to give your sub the best possible exit it will REALLY hurt your results. Overall though I think it's a good idea and one that adds another layer of tactical thinking to the race; how many times do we change riders, what's the minimum number of laps we want to do before we change etc etc. Whole thing definitely has promise, to my mind at least.
This ultimately goes back to the idea that a rest needs to be at least a couple laps. If you're going to lose time/position in the process of it, the gains need to be enough to invest into the future stage of the race
qualy should be a 1 lap time trial just like motorsports. For consequences have points available, more distance at the startling or something else. Maybe allowed +1 lap cutt off of substations (so they could sub last rider with 5 to go) for p1 or point multipliers. 1.03 x points for p1, 1.02*points for p2, etc
Re: Subbing - Time for Madison exchanges! Do them off to the side in the pit (they still create speed differentials) but getting subbed in would preserve momentum. As others have noted, this is more like a point-a-lap, not a points race, but velodrome laps are much smaller than crit laps, so I think either analogy is fine. My moderately successful points race strategy was like many others - go for the points you can, skip the points you can't contest. For example, you wisely backed off the sprint you knew you weren't going to get points on, and pushed it on the sprint you had good positioning for. I think points racers who can track their points, and their top 3 closest rivals points exist but are very few and far between. I think for NCL, a small handlebar computer (like a fitbit maybe?) that could give you your current TEAM points total, and maybe the current leading team's total would be awesome. Naturally, they would have to be correct, but I think that would be the easiest way to track points. The big teams will still be fighting it out in the traditional points race model of 'get the points you can.'
If they want to keep the qualifier, I feel like a short TTT qualifier could be really fun for both the riders and the spectators. But I agree it’s pointless if the stakes aren’t higher
I don't have a bike or do crit racing, but i have seen quite a few videos at this point. As someone who plays racing games, it's surprising to me how seldom actual "racing" techniques and racecraft is used in crit racing (primarily cornering, acceleration out of drafting, very few "cutbacks", approach to racing line, etc). So noticing that pit stops aren't used was surprising but seeing that no one there knew how to combine pit stops with crit racing is not surprising. My idea for a simple fix to almost all of these issues is by having a governing body or group of judges (like FIA) watching the entire race and the pitstop area. In most pro car races, the teams worries about the race and the governing body worries about the teams. Most Pro car and motocycle pitstops are entirely team coordinated, and the panel of judges will give a team/rider a penalty for breaking rather strict rules. The penalty does not interefere with the pitstop (riders can basically come and go as they please), but the group of judges will tell the "team captain" that a rider has received a penalty, and the team captain will let the rider know that they have a penalty and what they need to do (since ya'll have radios). Penalties can include: adding to your final time (+1 second, +1 minute, etc), having to drive through the pitstop again, or having to give a position back mid-race I also agree that the qualifying should be changed or removed entirely. Most car and motorcycle races usually have an entire day for qualifying, but holding a venue for that long would be expensive for a bike race. A TV Screen showing current positions at the starting line would help, but in most Pro car and motorcycle races, it's the team captain's job to relay ALL information regarding the race. (What position everyone is in, possible wrecks or hazards, when to pit and who is pitting, and any other relevant information, like "there's an alligator on the track after turn 3, stay to your left side", "you have a flat", "so and so's chain broke" , etc) Obviously, some changes will need to be made. If NCL adopted an already established system, they would be fine. And there are plenty to choose from (FIA, F1, MotoGP, IMSA, NASCAR, etc) Overall, a very good showing from NorCal and i hope to guys get invited next year!
How was the course itself? All of us here in Denver were a bit bitter there wasn't a regular p12 race. seemed like the coolest course run here all year
Oh and for the Pit, just put a TV at the new rider exit pen, that's connected to a webcam showing the pit entrance. have an official stand with the riders coming in, all watching the screen to see who is in when.
Great video Jeff. Thanks for the inside perspective. I hope the guys over at Chris Miller Cycling approve. (jk) It appears to me that its an attempt at a league?
A couple of things that definitely seemed to hurt it this year as well: :: They moved Denver's and Atlanta's locations pretty last minute. Moving Denver from a downtown circuit to a circuit in the middle of nowhere meaning next to no spectators (it's a ways from a crowd and NO ONE would have accidentally stumbled across it) :: If I heard right, you had to pay to watch Atlanta's race which is far from the spirit of cycling and you had to pre-pay to go :: They crutched a lot on drone shots with low quality images making it really hard to keep up with effectively
Those barrier fence things look terrifying. Are they metal? Crashing into those at speed look like they would do a lot of damage. At the very least, shouldn't it be lined with a crash pad type surface? Help absorb/diffuse the impact forces a bit.
they should have like three lines of sensors on the ground in the pit. each team has the same pit start point, when your teammate crosses the first line sensor on the ground the light turns red, when they cross the next sensor the light turns yellow, and when they cross the last sensor the light turns green (go) and the bmx ramp drops in that team's dedicated lane.
For the start, just pick a wide section of the road to start at that can fit 10 riders abreast (doesn't need to be the finish line) and each team gets a rider to be in each of the 5 rows:1, 2, 3, 4, and 5; with 6th rider in the pit.
Love the look of this. However, from the clips the speed differential when being subbed back in, looks like it could be a disaster with chasing back on, blowing up and being dropped in the process 😅 However this racing looks amazing
Pit entrance should be off the last corner and riders let out of the pit at that point giving them time to get up to speed or even go for a break-way lap. It would be the same for all. I’d also want to be on rollers while in the pit. Dream (but unrealistic) scenario would be rollers that immediately launch you the second your team mate crosses the pit entrance (like Zwift TT rollers). ;)
Absolutely not over complicated lol this is what it takes to have a legitimate organized league. The NFL and NBA rule book would put this rule book to shame in pure density lol The only reason current crit racers should worry about this league is the fact that more money being put into crit racing will likely make many of the current top pros second tier pros when the real talent shows up to take their money. If there's ever a chance for an EU racer to make a little bit more money coming to the US they will do so and they will dominate
I’m wondering if after the lap (or 2) of relief whether there can be a ramp you come down in order to get up to speed. The relief seems inconsequential when you have to put out that much power just to keep up.
Nothing to complain about when somebody is putting on a bike race especially with a prize list. But, it feels like some things could be done differently and simply. For one, I don’t think there’s a need to start a new race. I think NCL could ask existing races if they could co-promote. For example, if the financial backing rumored is true, NCL could’ve pretty easily taken over the northern California San Rafael Twilight. Built in legacy and a large spectator crowd in a downtown environment. I can’t think of any reason this kind of race wouldn’t have worked on the San Rafael course.
Points every lap seems a bit nuts. It's like a tempo race and a points race. So unsustainable, you need the subs. and a lot of coordination between the team. Cool to hear your takes.
I don't see why the subs are needed at all. I like the idea that a rider can wear themselves out and how that plays into a race. I once did a crit where there was a $20 prime available every single lap. Somehow everyone managed to finish the race.
@@joshuaelundberg3333 I think the substitutions was meant to appeal to the non-traditional cycling crowd, somehow? But it just feels contrived and complicated. Might as well make the racers stand on the sideline and run to their bikes when they blow the starter’s whistle…
@@westsidewheelmen Yo ubring up a good point about contrived because we all know that pulling out of a race for a few minutes does not get you any real recovery because the effort to get back in is violent. Plus, cycling in a way has subsititutions. When a team is taking turns following attacks or making attacks the others are "resting" in the draft and recovering for when it's their turn.
The only thing i like of crits is they go into the neighbourhoods, where the people and businesses are, why make it harder to follow, talking with a pro what seems to be impossible is to bring closed circuits in the core of big cities, when its most needed
PIT BOX: Video monitor for the Exit Official and Entry Official. Both officials have a direct channel radio. Racer comes into the pit, Entry Official says "Mike's Bikes". The rider's entry is also on the video monitor, so the Exit Official can see the entry and react as well as the entry is verbally confirmed. So the Exit Official is simply repeating what they saw and heard. Only cost is a 2 monitors, radio, and camera. Side note....need a team director in the pit that can monitor the race and react. I want to hear a voice come over your radio after that sprint effort, "Jeff. Jeff. Box, box, box." 😂🏎
I like this idea except they already have timing chips and a sensor at the pit entry, so why not use that technology they've already invested in? like they're already halfway there just finish the job
Call me old, but I don’t see why sth exciting like Crit racing need to be further “enhanced”. But I get it, in order to sell this product to a wider audience, things need to be spiced up, with points and a bit more tactical games. Still I don’t like it
I think pit stop / subbing is too much of a gimmick. The points in the lap is okay but the subbing... that ain't it Also if they are basing the qualifiers for w/kg, why not just go for a team trial? So you can factor in the cornering skills of the riders.
the TTT is a good idea, but i think it's a logistical hurdle they werent willing to tackle in the first year. At atlanta they got rid of the stationary bike qualifier and had a "street sprint" instead. better, but i think a fastest lap would be the best.
I was involved with the original NCL in 1994. It failed for so many reasons. They still owe me money. The points race format is NOT spectator-friendly. It’s a spreadsheet on wheels. It works on the velodrome because the laps are short, fields are usually smaller, and there’s a scoreboard for everyone to see. Until they create a mini scoreboard app that people can have the score in their hand, fans are lost. Criteriums are already confusing for casual observers. Imagine if you had never seen a crit before; this would be like watching the board game CATAN being played. What would be more entertaining for new fans would be a miss-and-out. Very simple concept. Musical chairs of bikes. Requires no explanation.
nope, just gopro noise, is it too loud and/or distracting? i like the small amount of ambient... silence is weird to me, but like hearing other ppl's opinions
The Qualifying needs to be like F1 but based on lap times that emphasize both power and handling... Propose: 3 laps (individual or TTT style) around the race course, BUT there are padded obstacles in every corner, some corners completely blind, others partly-blind. (like ninja-warrior style safety padding) Most corners should be setup to take at near race-speed with the same line-adjustments one might have to make in a real race cornering situation. But others less predictable. (p.s. If this sounds PTSD inducing - it's revised from my first thought of having to TT through moms wondering on-course pushing baby strollers. Or maybe tethered zombie actors jump-scaring riders 🤓)
Points racing on the track for me "what fucking lap is it, why are they so fast, I wonder how many laps im down" P/1/2 fields for a newly upgraded 3 lol It's hard for midpack, I think the top guys all know who's got what.
i agree with lots of this and on the whole, can kinda be summed up by thinking is solid, intention is awesome (promoting the sport and the equality for mens and womens) but execution needs some work. I tried watching it and it wasn't as entertaining as watching this or any other race. BUT, I know that'll come along. The drone shots they use is are really great though (like when they were used in the CX Worlds) so it's adding even more "excitement" and USP for the league.
That final sprint looked a bit..diagonal.
Yeah, the winner deviated hard there. Definitely forced the other guy into the barriers. Would have been a relegation in a UCI race (if UCI enforced their rules…)
Deviatior was second. Punishment would have been relegation from second to second.
@@theresaflannery1992 that's not how relegations work - he'd lose second place
That's a deviation of I ever saw one 😅
NCL not UCI 😉😉
For qualifying, I think a solo hot lap (or two) would be more entertaining than an indoor w/kg test. Maybe throw in a team pursuit once in a while to keep things interesting 🔥 No tt-bikes or any special equipment, same kit as you race in.
I agree. Team gets to try and get the fastest single lap and you have 3 laps to get up to it and lead out your sprinter.
If they want to do something more interesting for the qualifying positions, do what motorsports do and have solo hot laps. Each team selects one rider and they get one lap on the course. Gridding is determined by results of the hot laps. Furthermore, you could have potential prize money in later races if someone breaks the course record.
Hot laps are best, like at Red Hook Crit. They sell sponsorship to home trainer brands so I doubt we'll see a change there.
I like the idea of equal importance of the men's and women's teams. On the velodrome there is as much public interest in the women's competition as the men's, on the road it's quite different.
That's because of the dumpy's that both men and women have in track cycling lol
@@BodieMotolmfaoooo
5:45 Absolute MVP move! "Always keep it moving when other riders in front of you slow down". You just passed like 20 riders!
Wow, that crash looked like a concussion! I hope he's okay.
That was me in the crash, luckily I received no head injuries thanks to a good helmet! Rest of my body took a bit of a beating though hahaha
@@evankeane1 Glad you're okay! 3 years ago my cleat jammed and I couldn't get my foot down. Went over and fractured my hip. Now I have a titanium femur insert. Big owwee!
@@evankeane1 glad to hear that. make sure you trash that helmet. it's done even if it doesn't look like it.
@@aquicktake it’s trashed, being kept as a memory. Huge crack in the back of the helmet
@evankeane1 bro you're fortunate. I've seen a kid land on dirt (MTB) like that and he had TBI from the brain sheering that occurred from the whip. Glad to hear you're doing well 💪
The one thing I wanted to learn more about.
So many sports stars and investors in this idea. Looking to study it.
Thanks for sharing crit dad!
That 3rd person/drone footage + power overlay of that sprint was fantastic editing, thanks!
that crash,, that was horrible. The way his neck snapped back. I hope he's ok.
heard it was a couple ribs
That was me in the crash, luckily no head or neck injuries thanks in part to my helmet. Ended up with 3 broken bones in my shoulder, broken rib, punctured lung and a vertebrae fracture.
Glad your head/neck are good. Sucks to crash, heal up.@@evankeane1
@@evankeane1damn man. Get well soon! ❤️
@@evankeane1I had a similar thought about the crash and the way your head snapped back. I'm glad you didn't have a head or neck injury. Hope your recovery is going well.
Keeping track of points during a track race is a skill that takes years to to sharpen. With his years of experience, Bryan can keep track of everyone’s points and a lot more. With about one year of track experience, I keep track of points accurately about half the time.
Agree. It takes practice. Although I believe a track race is a lot easier to keep visual on the front than a crit race - number of riders and the whole course is always visible. A screen displaying points (accurately) Would be fine, you glance at it like a lap board. You should have a general idea but can help make decisions.
They have transponders and receivers at the pit and the finish line. Keeping track of points should be automated, requiring little or no human intervention at all.
With the points per lap and the benefits of working as a team, it seems it would be beneficial to have a radio system for each rider and a coach or manager at the line keeping track of points and updating the team with strategy recommendations (similar to big distance races like the Tour de France).
we had race radios and a director in the pit, most teams did
This isn't the first time an "NCL" has existed. There was an NCL in the early 90s with an identical format. Teams representing cities, points format on a crit course. Nothing was wrong with that league. Not the racers, not the format, not the courses or teams. The problem was with the people behind it. The one we had down here in NOLA, the New Orleans Fliers was backed by the king of all scoundrels. A real snake and figured out ways to remove money from all his friends pockets. If I recall, several teams were backed by not so honorable people. Hopefully this league will have better people behind it.
I'm not optimistic about this iteration either. Too many red flags. At the very least, they rushed this thing out about a year too early.
I remember Toronto had a team but only ever remember them doing one race.
Don’t get me started on the ownership of the old NCL. They were clueless about the sport. Most of them just wanted to be able to say they owned a sports franchise. There were a few genuine nice people (Franco Harris and a couple of others), but the rest were just self-important Al Davis wannabes.
Hey Mr. Linder!! I race on the track. Points races are pretty straightforward as long as you understand how it works. It's a bit different compared to on the road. I've done road racing with points for each lap as well. There are specific laps for when the points are awarded. I love to watch your channel and I enjoy every video you make. Keep racing Mr. Linder!!! 🚴
Looks like they’re trying to make cycling a game. Always a pleasure to watch your vids Jeff!!! Love to norcal cycling from Miami!
I race on the track and it's fun to see the points racing format brought to road. At my track, points go 4 deep (5 3 2 1) and field sizes are much smaller. You do have to try to keep track of how many points you're on yourself, though our announcer is pretty good about commenting on the leaders. We'll typically do a points lap every 1200-2000 meters (not sure how that compares to this course).
Hi Jeff.
Since there is a pit area, and a swap out of riders, this seems like a situation where a team crew chief would come into play. Almost like a NASCAR, someone coordinating the team from the pit. They would also be able to keep better track of the points, and then relay that to the riders. What's your thoughts on this?
we had one and so did most (maybe all) the other teams... you can see them in the footage
Staggered lineup at the pit exit back into the race, first come first serve, camera at pit entry with a video relay over to put it exit to show who can re-enter. This allows official to keep eyes closer to put exit at all times.
Or to expand on your idea of a light, there could be a display and each time team enters the pits, their chip triggers the system and that team’s logo pops up on the display and the stated rider re-enters the race.
About the qualifier- I did really like the fact that there was a qualifier, because it makes it into a two day spectacle, instead of just a 1h or 90min race. The extra energy I got from the crowd felt like a mountaintop finish in the tour, and I rode 100+w above what I thought I could for the first two qualifiers. Yes, it was relatively inconsequential in Denver, but in Miami it really gave the teams that qualified well an advantage in the pits. I agree with your idea of 30m between teams, as Denver did not qualify well, yet they were already contesting the sprint first lap. The sprints in Atlanta were super interesting, it did seem like there was a decent crowd for it being in the middle of nowhere. One of my main concerns with NCL is the venue. Miami was amazing, but they spent the majority of their location budget on it, so they had to settle for an office park crit in denver. Atlanta was an amazing venue, but with the crowd being so far away there was zero energy from that during the race. Anyways apologies for the ramble, but it was a great series to race this year and I’m excited to see how it continues in the future.
For subbing I’d suggest a “tag”. The start line is to the left and finish to the right and once your teammate crosses you can see them and go. Official is there to sure people tag correctly. You’d have to design the subbing area creatively but something like that.
This is awesome. I like how you make to comparison on PRO organizations. My take is that I just don't feel like their is enough armature crit racing in most states. I feel like if you don't live in California, Colorado, Chicago, New York, Miami you just can develop in this style of racing. How can one even considere racing if you can't do it locally. Again, it's a cool concept but they don't even have crit racing at a college level.
Love how generally positive you are about it and I'm going to stay curious about the NCL's possibilities. I do worry that it's really hard to create crit racing that is interesting from a media perspective, and without media interest it will be hard to drive sustainable economics into the sport. So the open questions are, Does the NCL format solve this problem? and Is the complexity of the format a support for, or barrier to, fan engagement? I look forward to your ongoing thoughts about it Jeff - nice piece here.
really like the concept of the NCL and how they gamify the race. looking forward to a more polished season 2
The point system is how crits are raced here in Europe. In Germany theyre called Kriterium. A normal race is called Rundstreckenrennen, which basically means circuit race.
In the US a circuit race is about a 5k or longer loop and typically without many corners. A US criterium is usually 1-2K roughly, often closer to 1k. The races the Atlanta and Dnever NCL races are hardly crits, Denver comes closest.
Handslings for substitutions! Track solved this problem years ago.
I really enjoyed seeing this live. My wife and kids had a great time as well. Jeff and team Mikes bikes are some of the coolest guys.
agree that one hot lap for qualifying would be awesome. also seems there were some things your team did not plan ahead about and needed to pay attention to. And if you dont' know, ask before hand. (points for qualifying, remembering to look at the screen between laps to see point tallys, and planning ahead when to pull off and how long each rider should get in the pit) So maybe a bit of learning to do on both sides of the fence. Great to see and let's hope this continues to build and the money follows.
NCL should run some track races over the winter, like the old six day races.
In track racing, we say "if you can do points math, you're not racing hard enough". So, yes, it's hard to keep track of points at the track too! That's what announcers are for. And if all else fails, it's never a bad idea just to ride your best race, regardless of the points standings.
For the pit-out signaling, you could have a light-box on your stem like they have in track cycling (where it lights up when you get eliminated).
There's an old saying from horse racing; "you can make a small fortune in racing, especially if you begin with a large one".
Option 3 for exchanges-hand sling in like the Madison race
not a bad idea, it would certainly eliminate the guesswork they have now. problem is teaching roadies how to successfully handsling lol
21:13 maybe DSQ that white jersey guy?
Always fascinating to see how sports evolve(d) in the US. Guess the most important thing is that your talents get a chance to compete.
Points race on the track is every few laps, not every lap. I think that would also improve this, I kinda feel the points every lap prevented the race from developing as much
Every country and every state needs a race like this. And moreover, What's a Crit race without a Jeff taking a sprint W?💪🙌😅
I'm interested to see how quickly the NCL takes your suggestions and makes them part of racing. They should hire you as a consultant! I agree a solo hot lap instead of stationary testing would be way more exciting.
Damn that barrier placement after the apex of corner 4 is really scary. It's 100% clear why that guy smashed into it so hard and went flying. ughghhhhh
Here's my pit solution - rolling starts! There should be a pit length set where the one coming into the race gets a rolling start. The person coming into the pits pedals into the pit lane and keeps going. The person going out will be getting up to speed. They reach a line in the pits where the one entering the pits has to go over first and then the teammate is hopefully close to approaching that speed and crosses the line second and is now in the race and can exit the pit. If the one entering the race crosses the line first, a penalty can be imposed. Would require some distance (and width if multiple riders are coming in at the same time), but would lessen the impact of starting from zero.
Atlanta was the only race that was fun to watch this season. Hoping for more dynamic racing like that next season and hopefully support for lower categories at each of these.
I'd love to see a crit series for "masters" riders. I'm turning 64, and I cannot generate the kind of power guys in their 20s and 30s can muster, but this looks like hella fun!
I know it’s late, but here is what I think will be awesome. So for starting position, a prologue of 4-5k or even less distance on race gear (race bike etc). The race itself should be first over the line wins, points are still good to have but make it every 2-4 laps or so. Kind of like a scratch points race on the track. Still have a jersey and winner for the points but not the overall. I’d also scrap the substitute, it’s too finicky.
Did you ever think of trying some smelling salts right before the final sprint? I know many lifters use them when going for PRs so I was wondering if it could translate over to some big power outputs.
Lifters aren't going 50km/hr around 90 degree corners surrounded by other people also doing 50+ km/hr. I vote an absolute NO to this suggestion.
Regarding substitutions - how about Medison-like implementation plus electronic limitation (just by tracking) on where each riders can ride and where they can't?
Very interesting concepts!
Re the substitutions: Really cool but couldn't help being reminded of a Madison track race here. Thinking they might try, instead of electronics, a long parallel lane for riders to get up to speed, perhaps even giving a slingshot assist for their entering teammate!
One other thought here - I don't think a w/Kg test is automatically such a bad thing. Personally I think adding such measure to the racing might provide some net positives.
1. It gets the fast riders to the front so they're not filtering through the pack at the beginning of a race. They lead and others draft or fall off.
2. It might be exciting for spectators to get a chance to see what the riders can do in raw power. Then if they win with low power a spectator might even learn tactics play a role!
3. Riders still get to display their mad handling skills in the race so it's not really taking anything away while adding a new layer of
I subscribe to GCN+ (admittedly mostly for MTB and CX coverage) but didn't know about this. Will definitely go watch it, get some viewer numbers for it over there.
In endurance car racing qualifying is a spectacle, it doesn’t matter as much where you start for a 24 hour race. I think the watt per kg test would be a spectacle for the spectators if there was a two day event and it was junior racers the day before
Cool event.
That spill was fairly spectacular. Hope that he's okay.
The qualifiers the day before was fun. It was more for the fans.
Cat 4 on the track here. I can usually do my own math, but it's hard to keep tabs on anyone else's points personally. But the announcer is never out of earshot so if you haven't gone completely cross-eared you can usually get an idea of what's going on.
Then again, we all know race brain is very real and it's easy to lose your critical thinking to the overwhelming call "GO FAST TURN LEFT."
Ditto. Raced track cat 2 for many years, and I was never particularly good at keeping track of other people's scores. But that being said, even in the few big events I did, you didn't have more than maybe 40-50 riders, so this is already hugely different. And you can see the field at all times on the track, so if you're in a break of 3 or less riders, you can keep an eye on who's getting the remaining points.
I've never been to a really high level track event, I'm guessing that have a leaderboard, and this probably has that? So you can see the tally while you're racing.
@@fabric5000 In the NCL riders don't collect points, only the teams do. So you don't have to listen to and remember every single rider's points (that'd be impossible, obviously). You only have to be aware of the 10 teams including yours.
From the beginning, I thought NCL should run a day’s races like a track Omnium: scratch race, tempo, elimination, points. I think that would be much more entertaining for the spectators.
@@andrasszabo1570 I still don’t see how any racer is keeping track of another team’s points. I think at the end of the day they are just going for it, trying to win as many laps as possible and hoping they come out on top.
I think with some tweaks it could really take off! It's engaging, you really need to strategize with the subs to who starts on the grid and if that other team rider get into the pits, do we also pit to mark him. The crit scene has riders with personality like in F1, it is a good watch.
I do track races, and I don’t really keep track of points I just try my best, but I’m a junior so my opinion is def different
They should do something similar to track elimination race instead of points where the last rider gets eliminated until the last lets say 15 riders are left and then two laps for the win for example..that would be exciting crit racing
Love this whole idea. Gives it a much more accessible feel (in my mind) to the people that maybe aren't quite so interested in bike racing generally.
As regards the substitutions; playing ice hockey I'm used to giving a max sprint effort for a minute or so then coming off and recovering for twice that amount of time, but in my sport it's easy to change with another player and can generally be done pretty smoothly when everyone knows how to do it.
The issue here is that every time you sub, you lose time. Doesn't matter if your guy is coming in from the lead, mid-pack or dead last, you WILL lose time just from the fact that you're having to come from a standing start, unless the entry and exit are a LONG way apart and as you said, if you're not putting in a max effort to give your sub the best possible exit it will REALLY hurt your results. Overall though I think it's a good idea and one that adds another layer of tactical thinking to the race; how many times do we change riders, what's the minimum number of laps we want to do before we change etc etc.
Whole thing definitely has promise, to my mind at least.
Have you ever played a game of hockey with 1 sub on the bench?
This ultimately goes back to the idea that a rest needs to be at least a couple laps. If you're going to lose time/position in the process of it, the gains need to be enough to invest into the future stage of the race
@@CyclingChefDiane lots of times
qualy should be a 1 lap time trial just like motorsports. For consequences have points available, more distance at the startling or something else. Maybe allowed +1 lap cutt off of substations (so they could sub last rider with 5 to go) for p1 or point multipliers. 1.03 x points for p1, 1.02*points for p2, etc
Re: Subbing - Time for Madison exchanges! Do them off to the side in the pit (they still create speed differentials) but getting subbed in would preserve momentum.
As others have noted, this is more like a point-a-lap, not a points race, but velodrome laps are much smaller than crit laps, so I think either analogy is fine. My moderately successful points race strategy was like many others - go for the points you can, skip the points you can't contest. For example, you wisely backed off the sprint you knew you weren't going to get points on, and pushed it on the sprint you had good positioning for. I think points racers who can track their points, and their top 3 closest rivals points exist but are very few and far between. I think for NCL, a small handlebar computer (like a fitbit maybe?) that could give you your current TEAM points total, and maybe the current leading team's total would be awesome. Naturally, they would have to be correct, but I think that would be the easiest way to track points. The big teams will still be fighting it out in the traditional points race model of 'get the points you can.'
my bro held 1200 then 1100..super nice..my hometown bro MR joshua kelly from MIAMI BLAZERS IS racing with you guys...super nice!!!
If they want to keep the qualifier, I feel like a short TTT qualifier could be really fun for both the riders and the spectators. But I agree it’s pointless if the stakes aren’t higher
A TTT would be firee
I don't have a bike or do crit racing, but i have seen quite a few videos at this point. As someone who plays racing games, it's surprising to me how seldom actual "racing" techniques and racecraft is used in crit racing (primarily cornering, acceleration out of drafting, very few "cutbacks", approach to racing line, etc). So noticing that pit stops aren't used was surprising but seeing that no one there knew how to combine pit stops with crit racing is not surprising.
My idea for a simple fix to almost all of these issues is by having a governing body or group of judges (like FIA) watching the entire race and the pitstop area.
In most pro car races, the teams worries about the race and the governing body worries about the teams.
Most Pro car and motocycle pitstops are entirely team coordinated, and the panel of judges will give a team/rider a penalty for breaking rather strict rules.
The penalty does not interefere with the pitstop (riders can basically come and go as they please), but the group of judges will tell the "team captain" that a rider has received a penalty, and the team captain will let the rider know that they have a penalty and what they need to do (since ya'll have radios).
Penalties can include: adding to your final time (+1 second, +1 minute, etc), having to drive through the pitstop again, or having to give a position back mid-race
I also agree that the qualifying should be changed or removed entirely. Most car and motorcycle races usually have an entire day for qualifying, but holding a venue for that long would be expensive for a bike race.
A TV Screen showing current positions at the starting line would help, but in most Pro car and motorcycle races, it's the team captain's job to relay ALL information regarding the race. (What position everyone is in, possible wrecks or hazards, when to pit and who is pitting, and any other relevant information, like "there's an alligator on the track after turn 3, stay to your left side", "you have a flat", "so and so's chain broke" , etc)
Obviously, some changes will need to be made. If NCL adopted an already established system, they would be fine. And there are plenty to choose from (FIA, F1, MotoGP, IMSA, NASCAR, etc)
Overall, a very good showing from NorCal and i hope to guys get invited next year!
How was the course itself? All of us here in Denver were a bit bitter there wasn't a regular p12 race. seemed like the coolest course run here all year
ya it was fast and fun
Oh and for the Pit, just put a TV at the new rider exit pen, that's connected to a webcam showing the pit entrance. have an official stand with the riders coming in, all watching the screen to see who is in when.
Great video Jeff. Thanks for the inside perspective. I hope the guys over at Chris Miller Cycling approve. (jk) It appears to me that its an attempt at a league?
Wow, Mr South Africa moved almost all the way accross the road during the final sprint
A couple of things that definitely seemed to hurt it this year as well:
:: They moved Denver's and Atlanta's locations pretty last minute. Moving Denver from a downtown circuit to a circuit in the middle of nowhere meaning next to no spectators (it's a ways from a crowd and NO ONE would have accidentally stumbled across it)
:: If I heard right, you had to pay to watch Atlanta's race which is far from the spirit of cycling and you had to pre-pay to go
:: They crutched a lot on drone shots with low quality images making it really hard to keep up with effectively
It is interesting that they didn’t go for the downtown circuit.
Those barrier fence things look terrifying. Are they metal? Crashing into those at speed look like they would do a lot of damage. At the very least, shouldn't it be lined with a crash pad type surface?
Help absorb/diffuse the impact forces a bit.
they should have like three lines of sensors on the ground in the pit. each team has the same pit start point, when your teammate crosses the first line sensor on the ground the light turns red, when they cross the next sensor the light turns yellow, and when they cross the last sensor the light turns green (go) and the bmx ramp drops in that team's dedicated lane.
For the start, just pick a wide section of the road to start at that can fit 10 riders abreast (doesn't need to be the finish line) and each team gets a rider to be in each of the 5 rows:1, 2, 3, 4, and 5; with 6th rider in the pit.
Love the look of this. However, from the clips the speed differential when being subbed back in, looks like it could be a disaster with chasing back on, blowing up and being dropped in the process 😅
However this racing looks amazing
Solid video. Really excited about the concept
That helmet stopped that dude eating the rest of his meals through a straw
Pit entrance should be off the last corner and riders let out of the pit at that point giving them time to get up to speed or even go for a break-way lap. It would be the same for all. I’d also want to be on rollers while in the pit. Dream (but unrealistic) scenario would be rollers that immediately launch you the second your team mate crosses the pit entrance (like Zwift TT rollers). ;)
Also qualifying should be a one lap shootout with your chosen rider. Fastest time first etc.
A points race on the track is a constant math problem. Especially if it's an omnium points race.
I believe that they tried a race set up like this in the 90's. Teams with funny names.
those barriers look dangerous especially the way they stick out on the corners. not surprised they caused a crash.
team radios could be used for points tracking, and team strategies
Qualifying would be more than just Watts per Kilo if it was on the circuit, maybe a mixed TT would work ?
Why not handsling change over like Madison ?
I do hope it takes off.
Love your videos!
Seems like they made it overly complicated.
Its just a track points race.... + madison also
Absolutely not over complicated lol this is what it takes to have a legitimate organized league. The NFL and NBA rule book would put this rule book to shame in pure density lol
The only reason current crit racers should worry about this league is the fact that more money being put into crit racing will likely make many of the current top pros second tier pros when the real talent shows up to take their money. If there's ever a chance for an EU racer to make a little bit more money coming to the US they will do so and they will dominate
I’m wondering if after the lap (or 2) of relief whether there can be a ramp you come down in order to get up to speed. The relief seems inconsequential when you have to put out that much power just to keep up.
Nothing to complain about when somebody is putting on a bike race especially with a prize list. But, it feels like some things could be done differently and simply. For one, I don’t think there’s a need to start a new race. I think NCL could ask existing races if they could co-promote. For example, if the financial backing rumored is true, NCL could’ve pretty easily taken over the northern California San Rafael Twilight. Built in legacy and a large spectator crowd in a downtown environment. I can’t think of any reason this kind of race wouldn’t have worked on the San Rafael course.
Points every lap seems a bit nuts. It's like a tempo race and a points race. So unsustainable, you need the subs. and a lot of coordination between the team. Cool to hear your takes.
I don't see why the subs are needed at all. I like the idea that a rider can wear themselves out and how that plays into a race. I once did a crit where there was a $20 prime available every single lap. Somehow everyone managed to finish the race.
@@joshuaelundberg3333 I think the substitutions was meant to appeal to the non-traditional cycling crowd, somehow? But it just feels contrived and complicated. Might as well make the racers stand on the sideline and run to their bikes when they blow the starter’s whistle…
@@westsidewheelmen Yo ubring up a good point about contrived because we all know that pulling out of a race for a few minutes does not get you any real recovery because the effort to get back in is violent. Plus, cycling in a way has subsititutions. When a team is taking turns following attacks or making attacks the others are "resting" in the draft and recovering for when it's their turn.
Damn, how did you guys manage to maintain speed at 40- 50 Km/hr.
The only thing i like of crits is they go into the neighbourhoods, where the people and businesses are, why make it harder to follow, talking with a pro what seems to be impossible is to bring closed circuits in the core of big cities, when its most needed
some of the biggest and my favorite crits are in city/town centers. definitely harder to coordinate but the atmosphere is electric
@@NorCalCycling Yeah that's what it's fascinating of the Usa scene!
PIT BOX: Video monitor for the Exit Official and Entry Official. Both officials have a direct channel radio. Racer comes into the pit, Entry Official says "Mike's Bikes". The rider's entry is also on the video monitor, so the Exit Official can see the entry and react as well as the entry is verbally confirmed. So the Exit Official is simply repeating what they saw and heard. Only cost is a 2 monitors, radio, and camera. Side note....need a team director in the pit that can monitor the race and react. I want to hear a voice come over your radio after that sprint effort, "Jeff. Jeff. Box, box, box." 😂🏎
I like this idea except they already have timing chips and a sensor at the pit entry, so why not use that technology they've already invested in? like they're already halfway there just finish the job
@@NorCalCycling true. Trade the monitor/ camera for using chip, but keep the radio in it as a redundancy maybe? Box Box. 😉
Jeff: Bummed I was out of town and missed you at this race :(
Call me old, but I don’t see why sth exciting like Crit racing need to be further “enhanced”. But I get it, in order to sell this product to a wider audience, things need to be spiced up, with points and a bit more tactical games. Still I don’t like it
I think pit stop / subbing is too much of a gimmick. The points in the lap is okay but the subbing... that ain't it
Also if they are basing the qualifiers for w/kg, why not just go for a team trial? So you can factor in the cornering skills of the riders.
the TTT is a good idea, but i think it's a logistical hurdle they werent willing to tackle in the first year. At atlanta they got rid of the stationary bike qualifier and had a "street sprint" instead. better, but i think a fastest lap would be the best.
I watched the three events, as for the rules, it seemed like there were a number of times the announcers were confused.
I was involved with the original NCL in 1994. It failed for so many reasons. They still owe me money.
The points race format is NOT spectator-friendly. It’s a spreadsheet on wheels. It works on the velodrome because the laps are short, fields are usually smaller, and there’s a scoreboard for everyone to see. Until they create a mini scoreboard app that people can have the score in their hand, fans are lost. Criteriums are already confusing for casual observers. Imagine if you had never seen a crit before; this would be like watching the board game CATAN being played.
What would be more entertaining for new fans would be a miss-and-out. Very simple concept. Musical chairs of bikes. Requires no explanation.
If you do a qualification, then why not a short time trial on the lap like in formula one?
I think the reason is that the trainers and Zwift software were sponsors of the event
My vote is for a Madison style handoff in the pits.
Or just have these races on velodromes.
What software do you use to create the overlays from telemetry data?
Did you use that new Adobe sound AI tool? Sure sounds like it, kinda metallic, scratchy, flu-ish 😂
nope, just gopro noise, is it too loud and/or distracting? i like the small amount of ambient... silence is weird to me, but like hearing other ppl's opinions
@@NorCalCycling it's fine
The Qualifying needs to be like F1 but based on lap times that emphasize both power and handling...
Propose: 3 laps (individual or TTT style) around the race course, BUT there are padded obstacles in every corner, some corners completely blind, others partly-blind. (like ninja-warrior style safety padding)
Most corners should be setup to take at near race-speed with the same line-adjustments one might have to make in a real race cornering situation. But others less predictable.
(p.s. If this sounds PTSD inducing - it's revised from my first thought of having to TT through moms wondering on-course pushing baby strollers. Or maybe tethered zombie actors jump-scaring riders 🤓)
That looks really fun. The pits could be simply managed by entering your pit and your team mate leaving when you enter, a bit like F1.
White jersey on the sprint could have cause an Accident. I thought you couldn’t come over and cut someone off for the sprint.
Points racing on the track for me "what fucking lap is it, why are they so fast, I wonder how many laps im down"
P/1/2 fields for a newly upgraded 3 lol
It's hard for midpack, I think the top guys all know who's got what.
Thanks !
Oh jeez. Track has solved the exchange problem. Handslings! 😁
m a d i s o n
Different mic settings or are you sick Jeff?
Sick 😷
i agree with lots of this and on the whole, can kinda be summed up by thinking is solid, intention is awesome (promoting the sport and the equality for mens and womens) but execution needs some work. I tried watching it and it wasn't as entertaining as watching this or any other race. BUT, I know that'll come along. The drone shots they use is are really great though (like when they were used in the CX Worlds) so it's adding even more "excitement" and USP for the league.
*Cancelled for 2024 and doubt it will be around in 2025.*
This has been tried before and has failed before.