David Seymour displayed more understanding of the faith in a few words than 440 "Christian" leaders can come up with. As a 40+ year Christian I shake my head. The church really needs a wake up call.
Next will be the Muslims will be saying if Maori can have their own government/sovereignty we want ours to as they are trying to do in the UK at the moment.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Across the sea come the boats of vagabonds, All that's left of what we were, it's what we have become Once our empires glorious but now the empire's gone The dead gave us the time to live and now our time is done
For goodness' sake - at least get his name right. Your opinion is not worth a knob of goatshit if you cannot at least provide this - not a huge problem. Stick your comment where the sun does not shine when you have no balls and hide behind a pseudonym..
@@raywheeler3135 indigenous /ɪnˈdɪdʒɪnəs/ adjective 1. originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native. "coriander is indigenous to southern Europe" Similar: native endemic local domestic Opposite: non-native introduced imported 2. (of people) inhabiting or *existing in a land from the earliest times* or from before the arrival of colonists. "she wants the territorial government to speak with Indigenous people before implementing a programme" Seems the dictionary agrees with him ray ray, it looks like it was the moriori... I wonder why the indigenous label is so important, I wonder if it could have anything to do with the UNDRIP? 🤔 😉
100% correct David. If these church leaders wish to play politics, then respond by subjecting the churches to taxation. I have had enough of their hypocricy and deceit.
go you good thing you, with a level playing field for everyone, with same rights and duties, you have a peaceful stable basis for a healthy democracy, thank you for taking on the big issues with guts clarity and clear communication. Act again leading parliament
When Hone Heke cut your British flag down in 1845 to insult your Queen and millitary by terminating the treaty! symbolizing that we did NOT cede sovereignty! Is a direct ACT of insult! Thats when we ended your invitation here Pakeha! back in 1845! What the FARK are you still doing here on my land??? I kicked you out pakeha! You were not wanted here 200 years ago? and you are still not wanted here now! GO!!! GET THE FARK OUT NOW AND OFF MY LAND FOREVER!!! WE DONT WANT YOU HERE EVER AGAIN PAKEHA!!! FARK OFF BACK TO ENGLAND WHERE YOU COME FROM PAKEHA YOU RACIST LYING THIEVING FARKEN BASTARDS!!!!!!
Well said ...David, ACT and NZF along with Nat's have an opportunity to draw a line under the Treaty Principles .....it is time to do this now so we are all clear about where we are going .....together.
They are not representing me and nor did they ask anyone in our parish that I am aware of - hence they should not be presenting themselves as "religious leaders" bc this is not a matter on which they are leading - they should present themselves as "Individuals giving their private opinions"...
i@markeveringham5339 i do believe they’re speaking for themselves no pressure on their congregation having their own choice only explaining the trickery that seymour is pushing
You really show your ignorance of the Churches, and their hierarchical order. Did you know that each year the Government goes to the Ratana Celebrations where the Heads of difference denominations also gather. Church leaders pledge their support to the Govern for another year. Of coarse they all receive a hefty back hander. its only money. And this is also the reason the Government must attend Waitangi celebrations each year, to receive the Maori's sign off (approval) to govern for another year. This is only a very small part of what your leaders aren't telling the public. It's a secret.
Keep going David. I cant understand how anyone would be against equality. Find a way for us all to stand with you so that we can help u change PMs mind.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Atleast don't talk about in a dumb way. Just read it! Both versions, especially the Māori one that was signed by the rangatira. David is highly dishonest with his argument
Well, I'm married to one...All David is saying is let's have a discussion what the principles of the treaty are. Don't see anything wrong with open dialog.
You've got a lot of support for this bill, David, don't take any notice of the crap media and drumming up of the churches and greedy tribes wanting this bill gone. Luxon will support it when he sees the majority wanting change..he only goes with the strongest voice! Keep on truckin David 🇳🇿👍😊
did they ask Archdeacon Henry Williams for his input? He told Māori that they would be "one people with the English, in the suppression of wars, and of every lawless act; under one Sovereign, and one Law, human and divine". That is, subjects in equal under one Queen and one God.
To some extent, the current debacle over the Treaty is due to the confusing translation into Māori by Henry Williams and his son Edward, by using the transliterated word, Kawanatanga to mean sovereignty. While some chiefs did understand that sovereignty was intended, others didn't.
@@Rokker61 what then is the "government of the Queen" but the supremacy of Victoria represented in her governor? Hobson reassured hapu in a printed circular of 27 April 1840 that the "rangatiratanga of the Queen" would not trample down their own rangatiratanga but that the Governor would always protect their interests. That to me establishes the relativity of hierarchy. Strangely pro-partnership arguments rarely reference this document
@@rogerevans7119 Yes, the intention was that the Crown would establish "a settled form of Civil Government with a view to avert the evil consequences which must result from the absence of the necessary Laws and Institutions alike to the native population and to Her subjects" - i.e. to set up an overarching governance and legislature for ALL people in New Zealand - Māori and Pākeha. Remember, Māori were essentially independent tribal groups with no overall supreme chief. Pākehā settlers also had no real authority to keep them under control. With the constant strife among the settlers, the bloody musket wars between Māori tribes, and the inter-race disharmony, the reasons for the Crown to establish overall sovereignty should be pretty obvious! But while there was to be a common law and government to which all people would be beholden, independent chiefs would still be able to exercise their rangatiratanga over their own respective tribes, so long as they acted within the common law established by the Crown. There was absolutely no intention by the Crown to establish any kind of "partnership" arrangement.
David would get my vote if there was an election held Tomorrow. I made the mistake of voting for National as Luxon said he would get rid of the them and us mentality and treat everyone equally but look like he’s going back on his word, I can see him being a one term prime minister as he’s let a lot of people down. Looks like he’s still pushing that the Māori need to be nursed and helped through life more than everyone else ,which they don’t as we all have the same opportunity in life but Luxon is hell Bent on Dividing us all .
David has been totally clear about what this discussion is about, I’m tired of the Treaty “ liars” trying to distort the message. We are nearly 200 yrs from this Treaty being made and we’re going backwards as a society because a small group think they should have everything!
I am a committed Christian and Jesus is my Lord but I definitely do not agree with the 400 "church leaders". I think David Seymour has a point. I am tired of the whole Treaty grievance industry and pandering to eternal victimhood. I respect Māori culture, language and history but I also respect my culture, language and history. Frankly, when I look at NZ history I don't think Māori society with its intertribal wars, slavery, belief systems, feudalistic society and destruction of forests and species make Māori any better than the rest of us. I think Māori culture and history is a very important part of new Zealand society but also believe that we all need to live under one set of laws and be treated as equals.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Same goes me - I love Jesus and don't necessarily agree with the 'church leaders'. But, David has to realise that the church leaders are allowed to voice their opinions (it is called democracy) - whether he agrees or not. That the church leaders have the backing of the greens is alarming to me as they are the most anit-Christian party in NZ.
@@Tutubae88 The Apartheid (1948 to 1994) in South Africa was the racial segregation under the all-white government of South Africa which dictated that non-white South Africans (a majority of the population) were required to live in separate areas from whites and use separate public facilities, and contact between the two groups
@@Tutubae88 actually yes, you tried going to beaches up north. Open your eyes, it’s even been on main stream tv. It was even in the NZ Herald. A new deal will enable Maori to ban other New Zealanders from some coastal areas and impose fines of up to $5000 if they don't obey. The Ngati Porou deal is the first under the contentious Foreshore and Seabed Act, and will allow some East Cape beaches to be closed to public access.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
When Hone Heke cut your British flag down in 1845 to insult your Queen and millitary by terminating the treaty! symbolizing that we did NOT cede sovereignty! Is a direct ACT of insult! Thats when we ended your invitation here Pakeha! back in 1845! What the FARK are you still doing here on my land??? I kicked you out pakeha! You were not wanted here 200 years ago? and you are still not wanted here now! GO!!! GET THE FARK OUT NOW AND OFF MY LAND FOREVER!!! WE DONT WANT YOU HERE EVER AGAIN PAKEHA!!! FARK OFF BACK TO ENGLAND WHERE YOU COME FROM PAKEHA YOU RACIST LYING THIEVING FARKEN BASTARDS!!!!!!
Between Maori saying that we have a lovely country would you like it all. And Tama Iti saying... when Maori are in power we’ll give you Pakeha 4 weeks to leave. We need to discuss and vote on a resolution. Not kick the can down the road again. I’m talking to you Luxon. Stay the path Mr Seymour.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Churches provide a huge percentage of charity to those in need both here and abroad. Check that out before you cut off your nose to spite your face. Said with love - and I’m not being smart! 💕
Gee, wish I had voted for David. Well said young man. He explains and in my mind. justifies his position beautifully. Now I hope he gets support from them I did vote for, in his efforts to get this Bill to its next stage.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Agree I did vote for ACT listening to him speak about the Bill months before they got voted in, My impression of their core values is one fairness, equality, through governance and education. They got my tick of approval and havem't disappointed.
Church leaders are meant to lead us to God and therefore living good lives. They are acting more like the 'judas sheep' leading the flock down an extremely slippery shute!
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
I’m a christian and am very disappointed in these so called Christian leaders.They should know to put trust in God and not meddle in things of the the world don’t they read the bible maybe they don’t have one.They are not Christian in my eyes and they give Christianity a bad name.
I agree that it is disappointing they have signed the letter. But why do you think they should not have input into the affairs of the world? Do you not vote either? Where in the Bible does it indicate we should not be involved in politics?
Do you live under a rock dude. Churches has been political going back to before the 16th century. The Catholic Church is well ground in every country's political system. Did you know that each year the NZ Government goes to the Ratana Celebrations where the Heads of difference denominations also gather. Each Church leader pledges their's and that of their followers support to the Govern for another year.
@ayjaynz1875 0 seconds ago TV 1 coverage on this. Jenny May & John Cambell's bias is such a discrace to journalism, but of course no surprise. This debate is part of the democractic process. Separatist & activists & church leaders stop trying to hijack democracy. I'm Maori. Kiwi's are one people one nation.
This discussion is absolutely essential. The supposed status of Maori as Treaty "Partners" was used by the Ministry of Justice under Ardern to justify discrimination against those without Maori Ancestry (eg see the MOJ's report on the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Bill) This nonsense cannot be allowed to stand Luxon needs to grow some.
'Free Speech is a little bit dodgy for certain groups?!!!' The Minister of Broadcasting, through the Governor General, should immediately remove Susie Staley and her team on the Broadcasting Standards Authority board.
I know that I am in trouble with the Ministry of Truth aka the Broadcasting Standards Authority. I have on multiple times done what is dodgy (thought crime) in terms of the Ministry of Truth and rung talkback. I am not looking forward to being re-educated by the Ministry of Truth so that I love Big Brother.
We do not have a separation of church and state. The Parliament gets its authority from the king who gets his from God. Now I'm an atheist myself but that is how we are set up. I don't care what these leaders' opinions are, I have my own. It's fine for them to push their bad opinions. The Anglican church has long since abandoned the bible and God anyway, at this point its a social club.
They represent their flock. Obviously your not a church attendee. Did you know that each year the NZ Government goes to the Ratana Celebrations where the Heads of difference denominations also gather. Each Church leader pledges their's and that of their followers support to the Govern for another year.
@@CelestialInsights IGNORANTS knows no bounds. Maori fund this country to the tune of billions of dollars each year. Paid out by the U.N. Did you know that Maori pay the NZ Police forces wages, paid through the U.N. and have done so since about 2012 after the NZ Police declared backruptcy,. And yet most ignorant pakeha call Maori benefit bluggers.
It's for a good reason the church and state are separate in this country. Neither tells the other how to run their affairs. Church leaders and their congregations can have their own personal opinions on the treaty but it's not the church's business to make political statements.
I am a Christian and 100% support a Treaty Principle Bill ensuring all New Zealanders are seen as equal in our beloved Coutry. Those church "leaders" do not speak on behalf of all christians.
Strip charitable status from ALL organisations. Iwi have been handed billions of dollars in assets which they manage in tax free trusts as well as saniterium and now even Gangs run charities for supposed anti drug purposes.
Maybe Church leaders who want to chime into politics should start paying tax like the rest of us. I fully support the conversation on the treaty principles bill. We should be able to have conversations without triggered activists trying to shut it down before it's even happened.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Perhaps it’s time David Seymour for a review into the charity status and operation of churches, maori organisations and anyone else claiming tax exemption. The review should offer clear guidelines to them and if they overstep them then their charity status is removed. Maori corporations should not be classed as a charity and it’s time they paid their fair share of tax.
The church leaders need to go away and think about what they are doing. It’s ridiculous of them to sigh nonsense. We want equality for all not just Māori. One New Zealand period
Firstly, there is no separation of church and state. The state was quite ready to stop churches opening during the COVID era. However, frankly the Churches have also been very hypocritical about when then get involved in politics. Most Christian faith oppose homosexually and abortion, but where is their outrage and open letters against the LGBT++ crowd or the abortion?
Evangelical Christians tend to be right wing. The established churches tend to be left wing. This is why many Christians here will be confused by the Church Letter.
I think they can speak on this. Im disappointed in their stance though. And also I do see how weird it is they did not send an open letter to the government on those issues, which I would have thought should be more important to them.
400 church leaders are only 400 opinions. And they are also out of touch with reality and the general public. Their opinions dont carry much weight these days considering their track record.
So many dumb ignorant commentors. Ratana has between 25,000 to 50,000 followers, than there is the Catholics, the Maori Methodist, & the European Methodist & all of their flocks, need I continue.
The issue here is about treating all citizens equally and not differently on the basis of ancestry. This will not go away despite the efforts of the legacy churches and Luxon's gutless attempts at avoidance - it will only pop out in less reasonable forms..
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
@@raywheeler3135 The treaty itself is not NZ law and never has been. It cannot be described as a 'contract'. We are dealing with the 'principles' which have been used to create two standards of citizenship based on ancestry over the past 40 or so years, this is unacceptable.
หลายเดือนก่อน +6
We must all support David as he goes through this ordeal, as he is being badly let down by other so-called ‘leaders’ who are actually nothing of the sort.
Interesting to hear Shaun and old mate suggesting that the churches perhaps shouldn’t have free speech. Come on, you don’t have to like what people say but they have the right to.
Those churches are worldly and don't know what christian means.A christian not only takes on the character of God but also understands the message that Jesus brought from His Father.
Real Christian clergy should be concerned with the spiritual requirements of their congregation. This is the behaviour seen by third world countries. Democracy is about discussing and debating and learning.
Could the church be classed as a business, union or political party, given that they claim to represent the entirety of their members/congregation, in the same ways as the aforementioned organisations?
Te Tiriti is a massive hindrance to mega wealthy foreign investors that donate to National and Act. Aoteoroa is coveted by the rich as a "garden of eden" for them, if the world turns to shit. It goes like this, get all the middle class out of NZ, hire only cheap labour, make land and living economically impossible for the majority and take NZ for the disgustingly rich, like a South pacific Turkmenistan. Te Tiriti protects not just Maori but all of our people in Aoteoroa. If they can diminish the rights of one group, they can diminish us all. The rich want us racist to distract us from being invertly classist.
When Hone Heke cut your British flag down in 1845 to insult your Queen and millitary by terminating the treaty! symbolizing that we did NOT cede sovereignty! Is a direct ACT of insult! Thats when we ended your invitation here Pakeha! back in 1845! What the FARK are you still doing here on my land??? I kicked you out pakeha! You were not wanted here 200 years ago? and you are still not wanted here now! GO!!! GET THE FARK OUT NOW AND OFF MY LAND FOREVER!!! WE DONT WANT YOU HERE EVER AGAIN PAKEHA!!! FARK OFF BACK TO ENGLAND WHERE YOU COME FROM PAKEHA YOU RACIST LYING THIEVING FARKEN BASTARDS!!!!!!
@@dgm2593 Isn't it the crown that unites all the tribes as a nation and then lets us run it as a democracy? You may be throwing out the baby with the bath water there!
No! We were independent in 1835 under Tribal Confederation before the treaty. The treaty was for british to govern there own british people. But you fraudulently added Maori as british subjects. Wtf??
Well, that's because Sean Plunkett, who was a mainstream media employee for most of his working life, has now become too lazy to do any journalistic endeavour and just runs off his mouth without proper consideration of the topic at hand. Besides that it's easier for him to get hard of thinking individuals to believe whatever he is spouting because it suits his bank account.
Catholics didn't convert the natives, Protestants did and then later the Catholics ursurped their work by telling the Maori they shouldn't have the Bible, now the Maoris and lording it over them. Shut all the Churches down. I am a born again Christian had numerous encounters with God not due to Church but my own personal prayer and connection. Churches are wounding peoples souls, they are controlling, legalistic, untrusting, spending money on unnecessary trips to catch spiritual laughing waves and can't even supply a food basket if you went in and asked! Shame on the Churches for not standing on the Word of God and aquiescing with the devil. We don't need buildings we need Ministries!
They have every right to voice their opinion no matter how wrong they are. But to influence a parliamentary decision is a difference matter. I wonder what past wrong Seymour speaks of? There may have been a treaty but then there was the Land Wars making the Treaty null and void. This nonsense is bankrupting the country.
Research Mauro Biglino and what he has to say about the Old Testament. Who is Mauro Biglino? Senior bible translator for none other than the Vatican, been at it for 30 or 40 years. Now he has left, and he has a lot to say about the Church and deception. The Church should be sticking to the truth and what is good for humanity, not fiddling with ancient Hebrew text, children & our Treaty.
In order to address the treaty "principles" and "spirit" we must first establish exactly what those principles and spirit is/was - bc it may not even matter what race, religion or whatever we are in the first place! How do we know until we establish that e.g., if you are 1/4 Maori - are you "Maori" and due some advantage or are you otherwise bc of the majority blood - and does it even matter within the context of the treaty? They don't want these discussions bc these "racist" points might come out...
Carry on David. Those so-called common grace leaders do not represent christianity. They themselves are not christian. If they were, they would love the truth, and also, Jesus Christ is not respectful of anyone, any religion or any ethnicity. We are all equal in Gods eye. They are hypocrites, liars and wolves in sheeps clothing.
God sees everyone as his children, no matter what a person has done. God's love for everyone is unconditional. Do you not think the reason why the churches didn't side with david is because they know he's lying. David doesn't care about the people of Aotearoa nz.
Again David you give reasonable intelligent responses to the inaccurate racist interpretation from ill informed clergy penned in their collective letter. Those 400 frocked clergy are so off the mark in what you want to achieve in the proposed Treaty Principles Bill
i’ve noticed if someone opposes seemore bills on this platform the trolls come out with their falsehoods who are now condemning church pastors who are having their say of their understanding of te tiriti for themselves not on behalf of their congregations is what these trolls on here are implying which is not true
Need to separate churches and fundamental Christian faith. Man made churches will always corrupt themselves over time, no matter how much they proclaim to be so called Christian churches.
Make churchez pay tax,no more goverment tax money because they say they are a charity,investigate the land,bank accountst they own, then do the same for iwi
Churches should stay away from affairs of State, unless they want to pay tax so they can have a say. No big deal with the letter at all, a waste of paper.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Hey Seymour I saw you at the airport in Auckland the other day! You were hiding behind 4 policemen after you came off a flight and some black suited security guy. Were you hiding from the loving people of NZ who would swamp you with flowers and kisses?
Its staggering how people in the 21st century want to think like people did thousands of years ago. Luckily many people think for themselves and this nonsense will not affect them.
David Seymour displayed more understanding of the faith in a few words than 440 "Christian" leaders can come up with. As a 40+ year Christian I shake my head. The church really needs a wake up call.
BS DREAMER
Next will be the Muslims will be saying if Maori can have their own government/sovereignty we want ours to as they are trying to do in the UK at the moment.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Yup choice
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Across the sea come the boats of vagabonds,
All that's left of what we were, it's what we have become
Once our empires glorious but now the empire's gone
The dead gave us the time to live and now our time is done
Seymour speaks so well
Luxton is a spineless jelly fish , this isn’t going away
For goodness' sake - at least get his name right. Your opinion is not worth a knob of goatshit if you cannot at least provide this - not a huge problem. Stick your comment where the sun does not shine when you have no balls and hide behind a pseudonym..
Thank you, David Seymour.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!!
It's time for maori to understand that they are not the indigenous race, the Moriori are.@dgm2593
@@dgm2593 its time for you to copy paste another line doofus
It's time for greyham loogan to understand how to read and comprehend a dictionary definition
@@raywheeler3135 indigenous
/ɪnˈdɪdʒɪnəs/
adjective
1. originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.
"coriander is indigenous to southern Europe" Similar:
native endemic local domestic
Opposite:
non-native introduced imported
2. (of people) inhabiting or *existing in a land from the earliest times* or from before the arrival of colonists.
"she wants the territorial government to speak with Indigenous people before implementing a programme"
Seems the dictionary agrees with him ray ray, it looks like it was the moriori...
I wonder why the indigenous label is so important, I wonder if it could have anything to do with the UNDRIP? 🤔 😉
The majority of citizens voted to deal with all the Treaty nonsense - Luxon is backing away because he has no backbone and is cowardly.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!!
"The majority of citizens voted to deal with all the Treaty nonsense" -Citation Needed
Luxcinda should be backing this, he won't get in next time doesn't use common sense
💯
@@DanafoxyVixenlabour plus greens plus tea party - not enough to form government. That proof enough that majority rejected them?
Just have a referendum.
100% correct David. If these church leaders wish to play politics, then respond by subjecting the churches to taxation. I have had enough of their hypocricy and deceit.
Hey Luxo, you were voted in to sort all this out, best be getting on with it before you get swapped out for somebody who will.
Busy sining Maori songs in the House of Parlimint
go you good thing you, with a level playing field for everyone, with same rights and duties, you have a peaceful stable basis for a healthy democracy, thank you for taking on the big issues with guts clarity and clear communication. Act again leading parliament
When Hone Heke cut your British flag down in 1845 to insult your Queen and millitary by terminating the treaty! symbolizing that we did NOT cede sovereignty! Is a direct ACT of insult!
Thats when we ended your invitation here Pakeha! back in 1845! What the FARK are you still doing here on my land??? I kicked you out pakeha! You were not wanted here 200 years ago? and you are still not wanted here now! GO!!! GET THE FARK OUT NOW AND OFF MY LAND FOREVER!!! WE DONT WANT YOU HERE EVER AGAIN PAKEHA!!! FARK OFF BACK TO ENGLAND WHERE YOU COME FROM PAKEHA YOU RACIST LYING THIEVING FARKEN BASTARDS!!!!!!
Well said ...David, ACT and NZF along with Nat's have an opportunity to draw a line under the Treaty Principles .....it is time to do this now so we are all clear about where we are going .....together.
I am a Christian, I agree with David in this case. Those “church leaders” misuse God’s name.
They are not representing me and nor did they ask anyone in our parish that I am aware of - hence they should not be presenting themselves as "religious leaders" bc this is not a matter on which they are leading - they should present themselves as "Individuals giving their private opinions"...
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!!
@dgm2593 the tribes will be banished back to their homeland in Taiwan 🇹🇼
@@schlookietribes unite….yea right
First class business seat for you
@@dgm2593the tribes were united when they signed the treaty and ceded sovereignty- not the new history and new democracy Ardern forced on everybody.
The church leaders are NOT speaking on behalf of their congregations. Should speak for themselves not the church, have no mandate.
i@markeveringham5339
i do believe they’re speaking for themselves no pressure on their congregation having their own choice only explaining the trickery that seymour is pushing
Do you know their congregations?
You really show your ignorance of the Churches, and their hierarchical order. Did you know that each year the Government goes to the Ratana Celebrations where the Heads of difference denominations also gather. Church leaders pledge their support to the Govern for another year. Of coarse they all receive a hefty back hander. its only money.
And this is also the reason the Government must attend Waitangi celebrations each year, to receive the Maori's sign off (approval) to govern for another year. This is only a very small part of what your leaders aren't telling the public. It's a secret.
Keep going David. I cant understand how anyone would be against equality. Find a way for us all to stand with you so that we can help u change PMs mind.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
The first rule of The Treaty of Waitangi: don’t talk about The Treaty of Waitangi.
Atleast don't talk about in a dumb way. Just read it! Both versions, especially the Māori one that was signed by the rangatira. David is highly dishonest with his argument
I am a Christian and I think David is right on this issue.
Is that because you don't like Māori?
Well, I'm married to one...All David is saying is let's have a discussion what the principles of the treaty are. Don't see anything wrong with open dialog.
You've got a lot of support for this bill, David, don't take any notice of the crap media and drumming up of the churches and greedy tribes wanting this bill gone. Luxon will support it when he sees the majority wanting change..he only goes with the strongest voice! Keep on truckin David 🇳🇿👍😊
David has a lot of support from greedy white land thieves who think the people that do the work in this country should also pay all the taxes
Here Here. Thankyou Sean. Thankyou Minister Seymour 👍💖
did they ask Archdeacon Henry Williams for his input? He told Māori that they would be "one people with the English, in the suppression of wars, and of every lawless act; under one Sovereign, and one Law, human and divine". That is, subjects in equal under one Queen and one God.
To some extent, the current debacle over the Treaty is due to the confusing translation into Māori by Henry Williams and his son Edward, by using the transliterated word, Kawanatanga to mean sovereignty. While some chiefs did understand that sovereignty was intended, others didn't.
@@Rokker61 what then is the "government of the Queen" but the supremacy of Victoria represented in her governor?
Hobson reassured hapu in a printed circular of 27 April 1840 that the "rangatiratanga of the Queen" would not trample down their own rangatiratanga but that the Governor would always protect their interests. That to me establishes the relativity of hierarchy. Strangely pro-partnership arguments rarely reference this document
@@rogerevans7119 Yes, the intention was that the Crown would establish "a settled form of Civil Government with a view to avert the evil consequences which must result from the absence of the necessary Laws and Institutions alike to the native population and to Her subjects" - i.e. to set up an overarching governance and legislature for ALL people in New Zealand - Māori and Pākeha. Remember, Māori were essentially independent tribal groups with no overall supreme chief. Pākehā settlers also had no real authority to keep them under control. With the constant strife among the settlers, the bloody musket wars between Māori tribes, and the inter-race disharmony, the reasons for the Crown to establish overall sovereignty should be pretty obvious! But while there was to be a common law and government to which all people would be beholden, independent chiefs would still be able to exercise their rangatiratanga over their own respective tribes, so long as they acted within the common law established by the Crown. There was absolutely no intention by the Crown to establish any kind of "partnership" arrangement.
Go David get into them I'm with you your party has both my votes next election stuff national
David would get my vote if there was an election held Tomorrow.
I made the mistake of voting for National as Luxon said he would get rid of the them and us mentality and treat everyone equally but look like he’s going back on his word, I can see him being a one term prime minister as he’s let a lot of people down.
Looks like he’s still pushing that the Māori need to be nursed and helped through life more than everyone else ,which they don’t as we all have the same opportunity in life but Luxon is hell Bent on Dividing us all .
Spot on don, I went away from national and voted for act because i had suspicions this might happen.
Luxon will be rolled at some stage
I suspect ACT will take an enormous bite out of nationals voter base in the next election
💯 two cheeks of the same 💩hole
@@DevonR564 that would be good
“Thou shall not judge by skin colour.”
Seymour 3;16
Perfectly white people can "identify as" Maori these days ....
@@susanpockett4314 I can think of one right now
David has been totally clear about what this discussion is about, I’m tired of the Treaty “ liars” trying to distort the message. We are nearly 200 yrs from this Treaty being made and we’re going backwards as a society because a small group think they should have everything!
Yep a small group of rich white landlords think they should own the whole country
Pay tax churches if u want to have ur say in political politics
A key Christian virtue is prudence. Speaking as a churchgoing person, this is NOT that.
I am a committed Christian and Jesus is my Lord but I definitely do not agree with the 400 "church leaders". I think David Seymour has a point. I am tired of the whole Treaty grievance industry and pandering to eternal victimhood. I respect Māori culture, language and history but I also respect my culture, language and history. Frankly, when I look at NZ history I don't think Māori society with its intertribal wars, slavery, belief systems, feudalistic society and destruction of forests and species make Māori any better than the rest of us. I think Māori culture and history is a very important part of new Zealand society but also believe that we all need to live under one set of laws and be treated as equals.
I am Christian too ... and I do not agree. So pleased I walked away from the Salvation Army - gone woke
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Me too!! Yes, yes, yes!! Couldn't agree more!
Same goes me - I love Jesus and don't necessarily agree with the 'church leaders'. But, David has to realise that the church leaders are allowed to voice their opinions (it is called democracy) - whether he agrees or not. That the church leaders have the backing of the greens is alarming to me as they are the most anit-Christian party in NZ.
Amen brother.
Churches should be paying tax every one should be paying taxes
Especially landlords
@@raywheeler3135what makes you think landlords do not pay tax?
Two organizations that should keep out of politics, CHURCHS AND UNIONS
Nah three you forgot ACT
Can’t believe in this day and age we have people fighting for apartheid without realising it.
Yes it appears NZ is full of dummy’s that carn’t see the woods for the tree’s.
You have no idea what apartheid is. Why do you fall for these idiots?
@@Tutubae88 The Apartheid (1948 to 1994) in South Africa was the racial segregation under the all-white government of South Africa which dictated that non-white South Africans (a majority of the population) were required to live in separate areas from whites and use separate public facilities, and contact between the two groups
@@dave24-73 is that happening here? Do Māori restrict your movement and access to anything? Be honest, the answer is nooooo
@@Tutubae88 actually yes, you tried going to beaches up north. Open your eyes, it’s even been on main stream tv.
It was even in the NZ Herald.
A new deal will enable Maori to ban other New Zealanders from some coastal areas and impose fines of up to $5000 if they don't obey.
The Ngati Porou deal is the first under the contentious Foreshore and Seabed Act, and will allow some East Cape beaches to be closed to public access.
Can't we all just have a vote on this do we live in North Korea or New Zealand??!!
Apparently North Korea. An elite minority of rich ACT supporter's think they can negate a legally binding contract to steal land off people.
Spot on David!
They're not Christian (despite calling themselves such)
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
The church leaders are grifters living in the lap of luxury.
Certainly confusing their Christianity with Marxist ideology..
agree david common sense should prevail.
keep it up David Seymour, but you must get tired of all the woke crap that goes on in NZ, just so damn tiring
Maori are the landlords and pakeha peasants are the renters. Government doesnt mean ownership it just means to govern something you idiot peasants!!!
When Hone Heke cut your British flag down in 1845 to insult your Queen and millitary by terminating the treaty! symbolizing that we did NOT cede sovereignty! Is a direct ACT of insult!
Thats when we ended your invitation here Pakeha! back in 1845! What the FARK are you still doing here on my land??? I kicked you out pakeha! You were not wanted here 200 years ago? and you are still not wanted here now! GO!!! GET THE FARK OUT NOW AND OFF MY LAND FOREVER!!! WE DONT WANT YOU HERE EVER AGAIN PAKEHA!!! FARK OFF BACK TO ENGLAND WHERE YOU COME FROM PAKEHA YOU RACIST LYING THIEVING FARKEN BASTARDS!!!!!!
And if we don’t fight against it it will only get worse 😢.
I'm sure David Seymour could find 1000s of church leaders who would support his treaty proposal.
I have no idea why Seymour is hated by so many, his rationale is super solid.
Possibly because most of the Haters are irrational.
Between Maori saying that we have a lovely country would you like it all. And Tama Iti saying... when Maori are in power we’ll give you Pakeha 4 weeks to leave. We need to discuss and vote on a resolution. Not kick the can down the road again. I’m talking to you Luxon. Stay the path Mr Seymour.
REMOVE THEIR TAX FREE STATUS ...
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Why?
And now.
@@optimumperformance well isnt it obvious everyones struggling why should entities that large enjoy tax free income? its really that simple
Churches provide a huge percentage of charity to those in need both here and abroad. Check that out before you cut off your nose to spite your face. Said with love - and I’m not being smart! 💕
THE ACT PARTY SHOULD HAVE DEMANDED NATIONAL SUPPORT THE TREATY PRINCIPLE'S BILL OR TOLD HIM HE WOULD NOT BE PRICK MINISTER
And then gone public with National's decision so we can all see how anti nation National really is.
Gee, wish I had voted for David. Well said young man. He explains and in my mind. justifies his position beautifully. Now I hope he gets support from them I did vote for, in his efforts to get this Bill to its next stage.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Agree I did vote for ACT listening to him speak about the Bill months before they got voted in, My impression of their core values is one fairness, equality, through governance and education. They got my tick of approval and havem't disappointed.
Church leaders are meant to lead us to God and therefore living good lives.
They are acting more like the 'judas sheep' leading the flock down an extremely slippery shute!
Maori are the landlords and pakeha peasants are the renters. Government doesnt mean ownership it just means to govern something you idiot peasants!!!
Desperate for relevence
@J.Smith-rc6wh sadly yes.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
community leaders speaking out on behalf of their community... shocker
I’m a christian and am very disappointed in these so called Christian leaders.They should know to put trust in God and not meddle in things of the the world don’t they read the bible maybe they don’t have one.They are not Christian in my eyes and they give Christianity a bad name.
Christian is a term hijacked by those who would decieve you
I agree that it is disappointing they have signed the letter. But why do you think they should not have input into the affairs of the world? Do you not vote either? Where in the Bible does it indicate we should not be involved in politics?
Do you live under a rock dude. Churches has been political going back to before the 16th century. The Catholic Church is well ground in every country's political system. Did you know that each year the NZ Government goes to the Ratana Celebrations where the Heads of difference denominations also gather. Each Church leader pledges their's and that of their followers support to the Govern for another year.
Very well put 100% Agree
David Seymour ,,,you Rock ❤
Well said, David.. we should all wait and read the bill .when it's finished
dreamer
Don't like Seymor much but he often speaks a lot of sense
@ayjaynz1875
0 seconds ago
TV 1 coverage on this. Jenny May & John Cambell's bias is such a discrace to journalism, but of course no surprise. This debate is part of the democractic process. Separatist & activists & church leaders stop trying to hijack democracy. I'm Maori. Kiwi's are one people one nation.
Well said.
This discussion is absolutely essential. The supposed status of Maori as Treaty "Partners" was used by the Ministry of Justice under Ardern to justify discrimination against those without Maori Ancestry (eg see the MOJ's report on the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Bill) This nonsense cannot be allowed to stand Luxon needs to grow some.
If it's woken it's broken
'Free Speech is a little bit dodgy for certain groups?!!!' The Minister of Broadcasting, through the Governor General, should immediately remove Susie Staley and her team on the Broadcasting Standards Authority board.
I know that I am in trouble with the Ministry of Truth aka the Broadcasting Standards Authority. I have on multiple times done what is dodgy (thought crime) in terms of the Ministry of Truth and rung talkback. I am not looking forward to being re-educated by the Ministry of Truth so that I love Big Brother.
I would love to see David Prime Minister one day .
your funny
We do not have a separation of church and state. The Parliament gets its authority from the king who gets his from God. Now I'm an atheist myself but that is how we are set up. I don't care what these leaders' opinions are, I have my own. It's fine for them to push their bad opinions. The Anglican church has long since abandoned the bible and God anyway, at this point its a social club.
These Church leaders do NOT speak for the citizens of New Zealand!! Who the hell do they think they are! This makes me so angry.
of course not they are making a stand for themselves not for their congregation who have their own choice i would say but anyway good on them
Who are these church leaders actually representing?
A bias for pro-Maori dictates.
Better balance needed from 'common grace'.
They may be receiving funds from some of the billions Mari have raked up from the taxpayers
Those billions were from taxes generated from stealing land
@@CelestialInsights Wrong !!! your Government donates to their cause.
They represent their flock. Obviously your not a church attendee.
Did you know that each year the NZ Government goes to the Ratana Celebrations where the Heads of difference denominations also gather. Each Church leader pledges their's and that of their followers support to the Govern for another year.
@@CelestialInsights IGNORANTS knows no bounds. Maori fund this country to the tune of billions of dollars each year. Paid out by the U.N.
Did you know that Maori pay the NZ Police forces wages, paid through the U.N. and have done so since about 2012 after the NZ Police declared backruptcy,. And yet most ignorant pakeha call Maori benefit bluggers.
Well said David
Keep on * Trucking* Mr Seymour 99.9% of New Zealanders are with you
8%
Where did you get your "99.9% of New Zealanders are with you from"?...I'm so not with him!
@@ks-lx8od So youre with the 100's of made up principles, obligations and shit then?!
So many dumb ignorant commentors.
It's for a good reason the church and state are separate in this country. Neither tells the other how to run their affairs. Church leaders and their congregations can have their own personal opinions on the treaty but it's not the church's business to make political statements.
Business leaders shouldn't be able to tell government how to run the country either
I am a Christian and 100% support a Treaty Principle Bill ensuring all New Zealanders are seen as equal in our beloved Coutry. Those church "leaders" do not speak on behalf of all christians.
You would do. You didn't have your land stolen off you
So many dumb ignorant commentors.
Strip charitable status from ALL organisations. Iwi have been handed billions of dollars in assets which they manage in tax free trusts as well as saniterium and now even Gangs run charities for supposed anti drug purposes.
Love your intelligent ability to think for yourself and not be rolling politician speak.
Maybe Church leaders who want to chime into politics should start paying tax like the rest of us. I fully support the conversation on the treaty principles bill. We should be able to have conversations without triggered activists trying to shut it down before it's even happened.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Maybe ACTs landlord supporters should start paying taxes
The Bill will never gain traction. Seymour has played you all for FOOLS.
Perhaps it’s time David Seymour for a review into the charity status and operation of churches, maori organisations and anyone else claiming tax exemption. The review should offer clear guidelines to them and if they overstep them then their charity status is removed. Maori corporations should not be classed as a charity and it’s time they paid their fair share of tax.
The church leaders need to go away and think about what they are doing. It’s ridiculous of them to sigh nonsense. We want equality for all not just Māori. One New Zealand period
You want that. We don't.
Maori are the Sovereign people of NZ. get over yourself.
Firstly, there is no separation of church and state. The state was quite ready to stop churches opening during the COVID era.
However, frankly the Churches have also been very hypocritical about when then get involved in politics. Most Christian faith oppose homosexually and abortion, but where is their outrage and open letters against the LGBT++ crowd or the abortion?
Evangelical Christians tend to be right wing. The established churches tend to be left wing. This is why many Christians here will be confused by the Church Letter.
I think it fair that churches speak out on issues such as abortion and euthanasia but not this or something like climate change.
I think they can speak on this. Im disappointed in their stance though. And also I do see how weird it is they did not send an open letter to the government on those issues, which I would have thought should be more important to them.
Religion has no place in political
Business leaders and gun clubs have no place in politics
400 church leaders are only 400 opinions.
And they are also out of touch with reality and the general public.
Their opinions dont carry much weight these days considering their track record.
So many dumb ignorant commentors. Ratana has between 25,000 to 50,000 followers, than there is the Catholics, the Maori Methodist, & the European Methodist & all of their flocks, need I continue.
The issue here is about treating all citizens equally and not differently on the basis of ancestry. This will not go away despite the efforts of the legacy churches and Luxon's gutless attempts at avoidance - it will only pop out in less reasonable forms..
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
The issue here is that David is trying to negate a legally binding contract by masquerading as being democratic
@@raywheeler3135 The treaty itself is not NZ law and never has been. It cannot be described as a 'contract'. We are dealing with the 'principles' which have been used to create two standards of citizenship based on ancestry over the past 40 or so years, this is unacceptable.
We must all support David as he goes through this ordeal, as he is being badly let down by other so-called ‘leaders’ who are actually nothing of the sort.
We must all oppose David's fascist colonial agenda
The Bill will never gain traction. Seymour has played you all for FOOLS.
Interesting to hear Shaun and old mate suggesting that the churches perhaps shouldn’t have free speech.
Come on, you don’t have to like what people say but they have the right to.
Those churches are worldly and don't know what christian means.A christian not only takes on the character of God but also understands the message that Jesus brought from His Father.
Real Christian clergy should be concerned with the spiritual requirements of their congregation. This is the behaviour seen by third world countries. Democracy is about discussing and debating and learning.
Colonial land theft is a behavior seen by white first world countries
Could the church be classed as a business, union or political party, given that they claim to represent the entirety of their members/congregation, in the same ways as the aforementioned organisations?
As a Christian, their position does NOT have my support
Te Tiriti is a massive hindrance to mega wealthy foreign investors that donate to National and Act. Aoteoroa is coveted by the rich as a "garden of eden" for them, if the world turns to shit. It goes like this, get all the middle class out of NZ, hire only cheap labour, make land and living economically impossible for the majority and take NZ for the disgustingly rich, like a South pacific Turkmenistan. Te Tiriti protects not just Maori but all of our people in Aoteoroa. If they can diminish the rights of one group, they can diminish us all. The rich want us racist to distract us from being invertly classist.
Christians do vote but that group don't speak for all Christians
The church leaders need to concentrate on the things of God, not politics.
The Bill will never gain traction. Seymour has played you all for FOOLS. YOU obviously don't attend church.
You should be a preacher David Seymore.
it's 500 church leaders now? It was 440 earlier and 400 yesterday.
Will it 1500 tomorrow?
When Hone Heke cut your British flag down in 1845 to insult your Queen and millitary by terminating the treaty! symbolizing that we did NOT cede sovereignty! Is a direct ACT of insult!
Thats when we ended your invitation here Pakeha! back in 1845! What the FARK are you still doing here on my land??? I kicked you out pakeha! You were not wanted here 200 years ago? and you are still not wanted here now! GO!!! GET THE FARK OUT NOW AND OFF MY LAND FOREVER!!! WE DONT WANT YOU HERE EVER AGAIN PAKEHA!!! FARK OFF BACK TO ENGLAND WHERE YOU COME FROM PAKEHA YOU RACIST LYING THIEVING FARKEN BASTARDS!!!!!!
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!!
@@dgm2593 Isn't it the crown that unites all the tribes as a nation and then lets us run it as a democracy? You may be throwing out the baby with the bath water there!
No! We were independent in 1835 under Tribal Confederation before the treaty. The treaty was for british to govern there own british people. But you fraudulently added Maori as british subjects. Wtf??
Well, that's because Sean Plunkett, who was a mainstream media employee for most of his working life, has now become too lazy to do any journalistic endeavour and just runs off his mouth without proper consideration of the topic at hand. Besides that it's easier for him to get hard of thinking individuals to believe whatever he is spouting because it suits his bank account.
The majority of signatures on the letter appears to be anglicans and catholics. The letter is available online as a pdf if you search for it.
What search term did u use
Catholics didn't convert the natives, Protestants did and then later the Catholics ursurped their work by telling the Maori they shouldn't have the Bible, now the Maoris and lording it over them. Shut all the Churches down. I am a born again Christian had numerous encounters with God not due to Church but my own personal prayer and connection. Churches are wounding peoples souls, they are controlling, legalistic, untrusting, spending money on unnecessary trips to catch spiritual laughing waves and can't even supply a food basket if you went in and asked! Shame on the Churches for not standing on the Word of God and aquiescing with the devil. We don't need buildings we need Ministries!
@@throughput6674treaty open letter
Grow up
And that's a lot of church voters
VOTE ACT ✅
They have every right to voice their opinion no matter how wrong they are. But to influence a parliamentary decision is a difference matter. I wonder what past wrong Seymour speaks of? There may have been a treaty but then there was the Land Wars making the Treaty null and void. This nonsense is bankrupting the country.
Breaching a contract by one party does not make the contract null and void
The war made the contract null and void.
Luxon is just like John Key, they can’t be trusted.
Spent the day singing waiatas in the House of Parlimant! While Seymour left to front to NZers through the Platforms!!
time to tax these church leaders... they wanna play then they better pay
Research Mauro Biglino and what he has to say about the Old Testament. Who is Mauro Biglino? Senior bible translator for none other than the Vatican, been at it for 30 or 40 years. Now he has left, and he has a lot to say about the Church and deception. The Church should be sticking to the truth and what is good for humanity, not fiddling with ancient Hebrew text, children & our Treaty.
FREE WILL IS OUR FREE SPEACH
In order to address the treaty "principles" and "spirit" we must first establish exactly what those principles and spirit is/was - bc it may not even matter what race, religion or whatever we are in the first place! How do we know until we establish that e.g., if you are 1/4 Maori - are you "Maori" and due some advantage or are you otherwise bc of the majority blood - and does it even matter within the context of the treaty? They don't want these discussions bc these "racist" points might come out...
One person one vote 🗳
whakapapa does decide otherwise
whakapapa decides otherwise
@@Duckz558 Yes - they tried that in South Africa but those involved got in trouble...
Carry on David. Those so-called common grace leaders do not represent christianity. They themselves are not christian. If they were, they would love the truth, and also, Jesus Christ is not respectful of anyone, any religion or any ethnicity. We are all equal in Gods eye. They are hypocrites, liars and wolves in sheeps clothing.
God sees everyone as his children, no matter what a person has done. God's love for everyone is unconditional. Do you not think the reason why the churches didn't side with david is because they know he's lying. David doesn't care about the people of Aotearoa nz.
why is pertnership such a big problem?
Because David wouldn't be able to sell off our natural resources to rich overseas investors
David Seymore from the actlas party
The open letter and all the names who signed it is available online as a pdf if you search for it.
Grow up
Nothing to do with the Methodist Church sponsoring Moari for cultural courses and development. They"re all in it together
Yip choice
Again David you give reasonable intelligent responses to the inaccurate racist interpretation from ill informed clergy penned in their collective letter. Those 400 frocked clergy are so off the mark in what you want to achieve in the proposed Treaty Principles Bill
If the church was saying the opposite yous would have applauded them. If they dont go with your agenda all of a sudden they shouldn't have a say?
i’ve noticed if someone opposes seemore bills on this platform the trolls come out with their falsehoods who are now condemning church pastors who are having their say of their understanding of te tiriti for themselves not on behalf of their congregations is what these trolls on here are implying which is not true
Need to separate churches and fundamental Christian faith. Man made churches will always corrupt themselves over time, no matter how much they proclaim to be so called Christian churches.
Make churchez pay tax,no more goverment tax money because they say they are a charity,investigate the land,bank accountst they own, then do the same for iwi
Churches should stay away from affairs of State, unless they want to pay tax so they can have a say. No big deal with the letter at all, a waste of paper.
Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where you come from!!!!
Who made you the control speaker of New Zealand? Anyone who has a issue of this ridiculous bill should speak up, that includes them!
@@ks-lx8od Those entities don't represent for the majority of NZers regarding this matter, you do understand that don't you ??
Landlords and tobacco companies should stay away from affairs of State unless they are prepared to pay taxes.
@@raywheeler3135 lol........ you're such a fool raytard, go back to sleep for God's sake man.
Hey Seymour I saw you at the airport in Auckland the other day! You were hiding behind 4 policemen after you came off a flight and some black suited security guy. Were you hiding from the loving people of NZ who would swamp you with flowers and kisses?
Its staggering how people in the 21st century want to think like people did thousands of years ago. Luckily many people think for themselves and this nonsense will not
affect them.
Why are we trying to legislate treaty principles when there aren't any, only articles
Because Maori activists have twisted the original intent and move away from the context of the Treaty!!