I agree bud, constant and ongoing reinterpretation of the signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Starting with the English version (the treaty of Waitangi) all the way through to present day.
@brakyosaurusthanks for the reply, but I don't follow. What am I supposed to do with your statements of 'I think' and 'not sure'. Without coming across rude, what do you know as fact to add to the discussion? Many thanks.
Part-maori versus the rest of us, Treaty of Waitangi has been part of our law LESS years than it has not been part of our law. Caused nothing but trouble whenever it has been part of law
Chris Hipkins is losing more and more support for more and more foolish ideas, he never worries about the consequences of his actions or ideas, and that is exactly why he needs to be kept out of any position of leadership
So why do part Maori people especially when most are more white than maori. How come they don't acknowl0edge their white heritage ad well. I will tell you why because Msoro get free money and perks whites don't
As a part Maori and i say that because there are no full blooded Maoris anymore i'm more interested in getting prices down so everyone can survive in the country, the treaty ain't going to matter a squat if the country collapses and we are close to that right now and a bunch of grifting politicians and activists ain't going to put food on our tables and thats what the average kiwi should keep in mind, and these pandering polies also need to shut up and do what they were put in office for....
@@hartley9958 Thank you for your reality check. I have part Maori relatives who agree. I lived in Queensland for some often coming across part Maori people who were employed and many self- employed who said they would always call NZ home often visiting but never wanted to return to a poorer standard of living and ALSO because they didn’t want to be drawn into many family related disharmonies and the negativity of not even trying to fit into the present world. Maori culture in the 18 th century was truly unique but the average life expectancy was for all peoples was only about 35 . As my mother used to say ” they were fighting each other so much it’s a wonder they didn’t kill each other out existence.”
Probably would've gone extinct sooner or later if left alone long enough. Natural native NZ is super food poor for humans unless you live next to the ocean.
@@leylandbarr7247 Well, they very nearly did. Left to their own deivces they probably would have, or the French might have aided and abetted them to that end? Just like Maori 'nutured' the Moa (etc) and, of course, the Moriori out of existence.
You are correct and it’s hard to watch these Maori activists in parliament speak utter nonsense and pretend to speak on behalf of all Maori . In reality they are trading off the backs of the hard working Maori who are just like the rest of the country , just trying to put food on the table and keep the power on . We are one country of many races and most of us will stand together . The politicians and activist Maori should not divide us . We are stronger together .
@@utubermax You probably know that yes, the French settler Langlois purchased from the Maori most of Banks Peninsula hoping to establish a French foothold for the French government in NZ, by annexing the South Island and establishing their own naval base there. The Treaty was signed shortly before the French could do this . The British turned up with one of their battleships shortly after learning this and landed in Akaroa planting the Union Jack to stake their claim. Whereupon the British came to some arrangement with the French about this land purchase. Apparently the Maori had also sold the same land to several people including the British which Maori were in the habit of doing….selling to multiple people. Some British settlers laid claim to some of that same land. The British allowed French settlers to keep their purchases. Hence Akaroa and another small town remained French. My great grandmother was a non-English speaking French settler in Christchurch. She had seven daughters .
It is interesting listening to hear this. The Treaty of Waitangi was an agreement of uniting all New Zealanders under one banner. That is what makes the New Zealand we have today.
@@TheMileswin unfortunately Miles, that isn’t what happened in practice. For decades, right up until the 70s, following the signing, the Crown made moves, wrote legislation and laws that undermined Māori. (Native land Court, Tohunga Suppressions Act, Public Works Act etc etc). This country was built by hard working people, for sure, but also at the expense and off the backs of Māori.
Over 500 Maori Chiefs ceded sovereignty or government to Britain in the Treaty. The Chiefs, subtribes and all New Zealanders had ownership over their property. All New Zealanders were given the same rights and duties.
@@kentstevens5839 2 different versions mate - te reo version does not cede sovereignty. That’s why this shits a clusterfuck - because 2 versions were written and not translated accurately. If you think logically about it why would Māori cede sovereignty over things they already owned? I’m interested to hear your answer.
@@MadNuzMaori did not have concept of ownership. They simply existed by doing as they pleased when they pleased. Differences solved by utu. Life was about individual greed and domiance over friend or foe. Nothing has changed or to be proud of.
@@MadNuz Sovereignty and Government are words that have the same or nearly the same meaning according to a thesaurus. The NZ Crown currently has sovereignty over us. We still have ownership rights. Maori were having their property rights and the rights of British subjects, if they signed the Treaty.
@brakyosaurus Happens a lot if you're commenting on this channel. I've had a few removed also, despite the fact my comments are devoid of insults, name calling and derogatory remarks. If your comment is opposite of the views of those who post here, it will most likely get pulled unfortunately.
@brakyosaurus my husband has been banned from the platform comment section for calling them out about the bs artists they had on about the Ukraine War lol they are sensitive
the true issue is all you folk crying about it everyday expecting a different outcome.the treaty will never be changed to suit the pakeha way,look bud realistically we hear you crying but we couldnt care less,it has zero to do with you or the govern-ment.you dont have to like it,in fact there are boats,planes etc leaving nz daily feel free to jump on 1 n take you whinging ass somwhere else n cry.we arent stopping you
@@jonnkarlsson2362 what treatment all we wanted was our land back not money (that's why you careless peoples moan about it always.) wouldn't be better to pay us Tax Free for 150 years, good idea for business especially if we're supposed to be Partners. Geez I sound like a broken record, namely our suppose partnership. Yeah Right. Nazism is Racism like your buddies Ukraine. USA, NATO.. And fakes Jews, Blackrock, Banks (j, keys buddies) give ours Kiwisaver Back Blackrock thieves.and killers.
With a exhausted pakeha desperately trying to avoid the cliff while a Maori in the passenger seat with swastika tattoos on his face keeps punching him in the head and yelling "stop hitting me bro!" Lol
@@mikewalters5815 only the convicts rules right, Tauiwi. Thief your Anglo-Saxon couldn't defeats us Maori hence to draw it up the Treaty. Recognised now a lie stole cheat kills. Look obvious because what happening around the world. The do gooder are telling countries to like stopped making ur country healthy and start bleeding it's resources like electricity gas and oils., and foods. Yes time to eat the West fake foods, democracy.
@@-KAIX-0405-NZ never need to be there, self reliant and sufficient lands to grow our communities together we did once, without tech, we can diy again. But who not helping who. Zzzz
There are too many lawyers in powerful positions getting big bucks from the grift. Too many useful idiots willing to do violence for the lawyer class/aristocracy.
When it comes to Māori or Treaty issues I have noticed that many historical statements made are incorrect, twisted, or completely untrue. The sad thing is that there is rarely a challenge when either an incorrect or false history is used to illustrate a point. We need an office to challenge incorrect statements of history as a matter of urgency.
Everyone should be looking at the pod casts from Julian Batchelor, he states the facts. What Mr. Laws is saying is 100% correct, we are sadly in big trouble.
Agree in principle, but can you imagine the kind of constitution that would be produced by our "intellectual class"? I suspect it would diverge completely from the spirit of the Treaty.
The division you are talking about has always been here but not to the same degree until JA. One woman in 6 years caused more damage to community relations across all demographics than any one else in NZ history.
How much money has this Treaty cost NZ and who have received the money gone?????. the money that has been paid could be en give the Maori that need it in stead of the Maori that have siphon it off to them selfs . There appears to be one billion dollars paid out by the Treaty of Waitangi where is it all ????????
Māori who have settled, settled for 0.003% of what they are actually owed. You should be thanking them. 3 family's in NZ have far more Money and cost the country far far far more in tax evasion than all Iwi settlements put together. You're mad at the wrong crowd
Appreciate your articulations. A time for more conscious critical conversations. The labour govt installed woke media make that more challenging by having what appears the dominant control over messaging in NZ. Mass views are aren’t represented, which is a kind of suppression, and anti coalition govt.
My mother also asked a close Maori friend of ours what would have happened to Maori if Captain Cook hadn’t arrived with the British following. This was at my father’s 80th birthday and they both had a few drinks when she asked her this, and with humour typical of Maori, the lady said “ they would have eaten each other out of existence”.
@brakyosaurus they were quickly running out, without deep sea fishing capabilities they were quickly devastating the coastal populations of fish. Gisborne museum used to have an exhibition showing the fish bone hooks were being used more and more before being thrown away as larger fish were becoming rarer and rarer.
Well indentified and said, Michael. When I saw that interview of Hipkins, I thought this MUST BE A WATERSHED moment. I was surprised how there seemed to be little 'noise' about this considering what it means, but it will now grow to a crescendo. Bring it on I say. We, the public (not the politicians) of NZ need to have the discussion, as Seymour indentified. We need to have a referendum and lance the suppuratng boil that has been allowed to fester and grow for far too long and which has robbed of us our productivity and our future!
As my father used to say in these situations “ Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile”. Great advantage of an oral Stone Age language of limited vocabulary - one word can have numerous meanings.
@@Rodtang-x5z About what you gave as an example. The words you chose may sound the same , but are spelt differently having a different meaning. “Waka “ alone can have NUMEROUS meanings but is spelt the same. Maori can thank the missionary Williams who in collaboration with Hongi Hika ( or was it Hongi Hiki?) set up the first Maori/English dictionary. Maori only had about 5,000 words in their vocabulary ( with 15 letters in the alphabet compared to English 26) compared to English ( of which much has derived from French) whereas English by that time had about 120,000. Certainly having more articulated means of expression.
A lot of the activists in the public sphere appear to be people who will gain immensely if their version of te Tiriti is realised. It all seems a touch disingenuous. The Treaty itself seems very straightforward: Article 1 Sovereignty. Article 2 private property. Article 3 equal rights. It's not particularly well written, but its focus should be obvious to any objective reader.
Thankfully there is the platform! And a few other shows that has popped up as a result of that facist covid response that is allowing thoughts to be aired that otherwise wouldn't be allowed to exist we might be able to grow as a result as a country...
I wish to return home to NZ with my kids, but I am really worried. There is so much conflict here in the UK. Frying pan fire situation, I don’t want much to do with politics, but politics wants a lot to do with me.
Get back here, learn our indigenous language and immerse your children with the culture and people of this land. It will take you less than a year to realise how wrong this guy is talking and how much he stokes fear and hatred.
So 120 people sit in the people's house decide what the total population of NEW ZEALAND will do, in one of the most important decisions that this house will make, that is endorse racism into law.
@@mos-p6x Either you with God or them UK USA EU NATO Demons. Join BRICS and dedollarisation., of the USA Dollar the rip off middle man. We will be free from the Evil Chain that's strangling Our once rich Economy. BRICS +Nations is the Answers. No Lie.
@@mos-p6x yeah our friends the Chinese folks were constantly jeers at and taunted with Racism when they came here to the Gold rush days last century. Hey from the ninety onwards Racism exist, maybe our treaty partner had a dislike of being called a Pakeha, well it was a respected word. Which was coin for the priests etc, namely from Maori children to not get mixed up with their own father, they would called out to the priests, Te Pakeha (the white father instead of Pa. (father) Keha(fair skin,), But those that agreed to abolished the Treaty. Will be known as Tauiwi (Gentiles and unbeliever) and built Nothing Together. Almost Over for us otherwise. I meant Spiritually.. TWR our Saviour (not only Maori but the World. Abridged.
@@kentstevens5839 Tauiwi Dreams are coming true, likes what our Prophet said. Just like the Bible especially the back pages where the End day is nears. You careless people who agreed with the coalition party, will not have a second chance. You will hop into the furnace with the West losers. Not even sad about it.
The last Lab govt was in large measure a radical Maori activist political party. Willie Jackson succeeded in transforming TVNZ into a vehicle for championing language, culture & propaganda, Mahuta pushed co-governance and Maori wards into local govt, Kiri Allen managed to reduce the prison muster (which coincidentally reduced the number of Maori in prisons) with apparent ethnicity-based appointments in Wellington becoming the norm and 'treaty principles' ideas widely promoted via all NZ govt agencies. So in that light, Chris Hipkins recent comments about Maori sovereignty should hardly come as a surprise as the historical 'workers-party' is defunct now and Lab may as well be honest and instead change its name and formally amalgamate with Te Pati Maori as the Te Pati Labour ethnicity party.
I saw the clip of Chris Hipkins' interview on sovereignty and for him to give such a blunt and unequivocal response that sovereignty wasn't ceded by Maori, when there is so much division over the interpretation of the treaty, was simply reckless and beyond stupid. One can forgive Luxon's equally clear affirmation that sovereignty was ceded by Maori because he was simply following orthodoxy - established practice.
@brakyosaurus guns were used as a currency between everyone. SOME Chefs would of signed the treaty to stop the years and years of fighting between themselves which was happening long before Europeans started trading guns
Why do so many harp on about just the Treaty of Waitangi. New Zealand is currently party to more than 1,900 treaties, We have 6 Treaties with Israel. As well as many others that are not yet in force. A treaty is an international agreement between countries or international entities (eg the United Nations, World Trade Organisation, or World Bank) that's legally binding under international law. So why is this never talked about? Ova
@@Digmen1 These Treaties are there to suppress US as Maori/Pacific Islanders and New Zealand Citizens. They are created to do exactly what is going on ..Division. They alienate the peoples from all the things we should be able to Practice as Sovereign Human beings. We need to come together as One with Respect for each others Cultures and Beliefs. United we Stand... Divided we Fall. Government/Crown/Vatican need to be held accountable for there Treatment of the People. Peace, Happiness and prosperity to You and Your Whanau (Family). Ova
The Hispanics in Florida hates the Asians too 😂....our cousin lives there & I went to visit her twice in the last 30 years so I also experienced the racism from the Hispanics at the Daytona Beach Airport Florida.....but the African Americans were so kind to me in the Southern States: Lousiiana(New Orleans), Tennessee (Memphis), Atlanta. The whites vary..some are lovely & some are racist too...just didn't expect it from the Hispanics 😅😅
Keep this discussion going Michael Laws, for as long as it takes. NZ Govt elected by NZ citizens runs this country and what Laws it's legislated is for all citizens of NZ.
We never realised that as National was working itself closer to the centre as an attempt to attract the swing vote ( big mistake , having principles to stand by would have been better) at the same time Labour was moving further and further left and are more than happy to see a civil war in order to stay or as now get power. We are here in NZ, not alone with this problem. The whole Western world is sitting on a knife-edge, and it is very scary . Michael, those thin edge of the wedge callers you brutalised in your talk back days don't seem so silly, do they.?
Quite a history about the Maori - put the Inca's or the Aztecs to shame in degeneration. Outcast from the Cook Islands during the 13th century as weaker primitive Neolithic people by later waves of Polynesians (Maori were from the original wave of primitive Polynesians pushed right out across the Eastern Pacific by successive stronger more advanced groups arriving from the west). They were outcast on rafts and some floated to the North East Coast of NZ driven by the South Equatorial Current and were stranded for 500 years. The weaker were pushed down to the South Island or Chathams etc. So the South Island Maori (had their own language) were the weakest of the weak. They were captured and eaten as 'Slave flesh' by the northern Maori doing raids. (Well they all ate each other - 80% of Maori pre European were dark skinned easily fattened slaves farmed and eaten by a lighter skinned 'Ariki' thin wiry elite royal caste). So it was with some righteousness as well as British cunning that they armed the southern Maori who then with muskets launched a genocidal war on the north.. That plus measles & flu halved the Maori population and removed most of the elite. The British then liberated the slaves and outlawed cannibalism. The northern Maori fought with the British against the south bad west Maori 'rebels'. The Maori sued for peace and a treaty was signed that removed all sovereignty and made them subjects to the English crown where the English would protect them from each other. Land could only be sold to or via the Crown. Maori could live on their reservations with native custom but none did. The treaty of Waitangi is strikingly clear in that the Maori cede sovereignty completely and become citizens of Great Britain - all 3 clauses lock that in. Nothing in today's 'Maori' culture is authentic. The music - all European (Maoris did not have tonal music, the songs are missionary tunes or introduced - Poi dance is from Islands and Stick dance from old Malaya. The carvings and art - all European - Arabesques that was the fashion at the time. Original Maori had limited dash carving and no painting of objects. No written language - all the syntax & grammar plus vowel inflection is European. No technology - some lagoon canoes and wood or stone Neolithic tools. No food sources - like pigs or crops - they left that all behind, all they had was a weak inbred fox (now extinct), some rats and a weak dismal pacific yam. They ate out all the bird-life including 10 species of Moa and 46 other bird species, didn't know how to farm the sea as were island people and so they turned to societal cannibalism. Today - no full blood or half blood left. No genuine tradition and almost all are offspring of Maori slave females sold to white settlers for muskets or food. -So more fake than the 'Sioux' or 'Cherokee' or 'Crow' who had at least retained some genuineness about who they were and their history. -Everything you 'saw or experienced' is fake. A totally convected disneyfied tokenistic set of inventions fueled by a grievance culture of mixed-race imposters fetishing a false past bad history because it pays benefits. 'This Horrid Practice' - Professor Paul Moon, "A Savage Country" Professor Paul Moon 'Behind The Tattooed Face' - Heretaunga Pat Baker, 'Anthropology In The South Seas' - H D Skinner
Your argument that Maori's were savages in the past implying that they needed the british is absurd. All nations started off in barbarity at some point. Had the Maori been given more time on their own they most certainly would have developed more in the functioning of their society. Stop with the whole 'Moari were savages', so were your ancestors at some point.
@@LarryMilmine-e9r Upoke is the term for Maori slaves. They were about 80% of the population prior to the Europeans. They were the primary source of protein in what was a horrific degeneration of Polynesian society into rampart structural cannibalism - a period of horror that lasted some 500 years until they were rescued by the European. The Maori had come with the original Polynesian caste structure of royals and bonded commoners after being outcast and set adrift on rafts to end up stranded in NZ. Within a recorded period of about 8 generations this then degenerated into 9 different language groups ( no common language) and a horrific two tier ethnically and racially based caste structure. - Ariki / from the original royal elite - these were documented and painted or drawn as lighter to white skinned, wiry, smaller boned, fine featured, thin nose, thin lipped, straight hair, anxious, aggressive cannibalistic ruling class. Upoke / from the original bonded commoners (such bonding or serfdom broke down in NZ as land was unconstrained) and slaves. Upoke or poke was used in conjunction with Kuku or Kiko ie a Upoke Kiko was slave flesh - or else poke singular or pokes group). The Upoke slaves were the 'wealth' of the Maoris and raiding and capturing other clans and tribes Upoke was their primary industry. These Upoke were dark skinned, larger limbed, thick lipped, flat nosed, curly haired, easily fattened, low IQ and sedentary. The settlements of the Maoris (Pa's) were in valley passes where they could anticipate attack from the sea and run into the bush behind. A Pa's very design is as a cannibal storage camp of humans as slave eating flesh with perimeters controlling access and confining the slaves. Have a good look at the original designs of the Pa's and what their real purpose was. Upoke females were normally killed and eaten at birth but on arrival of the Europeans -( trade was for Upoke boiled male heads carved with European arabesques eg 'Maori Moko designs - all European) but with a shortage of that & the trade being policed - the Maori Ariki turned to selling young Upoke slave girls to the sailors and settlers for guns. Often as records show, the Ariki would line up the young Upoke on the beach or field and then tell the Europeans they would all be slaughtered and eaten unless the European met their demands. As such the European settlements were flooded with Upoke slaves, mainly young females being the demand. The Europeans bred with these slave females gave immunity to the mixed race offspring disease such as measles & flu that full blood Maori did not have. Again this is subject to much record (1880 onwards) about the 'revitalization' and out breeding of the Maori being their only path of survival / there was much concern the Maori would become extinct so all Europeans & Maori were much focused on such outbreeding to ensure that a trace of Maori may exist in the future. By 1903 there were no Ariki left and only 14 very old full blood Upoke. The last full blood died in 1944 - as reported by the minister of Maori affairs much later to the NZ parliament. The marked differences between the Ariki and the slave caste were much commented on, discussed and captured in paintings & portraits. Almost all part Maori today would be offspring of Europeans & Upoke slaves - the filters of inter Maori fratricide between the Ariki clans & disease acted as a filter to remove both Ariki and full bloods. "A Savage Country" Professor Paul Moon' This Horrid Practice' - Professor Paul Moon, 'Behind The Tattooed Face' - Heretaunga Pat Baker, 'Anthropology In The South Seas' - H D Skinner
@@LarryMilmine-e9r They had 500 years of solitude in which time they devolved from a relatively cultured and stable society to a depraved, cannibalistic nightmare.
As Politicians don't seem to know what a 'woman' is & would allow any man to identify as a woman, then surely we can all, & everyone who arrives from now on 'identify' as Māori - then we all have the same rights 🙂
That is what Maori think as well. All Maori governed by Maori. Except Maori isn't just a word. But join us we have cookies. We will need garden hands. How's your back?
Easy ...Get rid of the crown.....No treaty ..then NEW ZEALAND FOR ALL NEW ZEALANDERS!!!! its called Sovereignty Lets Make New Zealand Great Again..oh ...and keep the "NO NUKES"
Michael, what assurance can you give (if any) that Seymour ONLY wants to have a discussion about the Treaty Principles considering he wants to hold a referendum, and a Treaty Principles Bill he'd like to see become law? Are you sure he only wants a discussion? Because there a whole lot of people out there he has not yet convinced that a discussion is all he wants...
Unfortunately for the people of New Zealand Michael Law has told us the truth. Both Labour & National Parties have led us to this. Shame on them. Most Maori have Pakeha ancestory, but there is no free money if you are Pakeha. We are suppose to be a modern democracy where everyone is treated equally. Yeah right !
Maybe before resorting name calling and show your low level of intelligence and lack of understanding you should educate yourself or go an get some education, you could start by reading both the treaty of Waitangi were on article 1 they ceded sovereignty, and then read the treaty of waikato were the king receded sovereignty to save because he could see they were on the losing side of the war,
We are all kiwis but are people racist much. I get that anti Maori are sick of hearing whats happening to maori people what continues to happen but put you in our shoes yous cry. Its tiring listen to you all excuse the fact nz keeps kicking maori down. Do not make us like America nz will never be the same
Yea and the follow on from that, as a kiwi, i don't want to invest here now. I don't want to buy a house. I don't want to back NZ stock yada yada yada because NZ now looks shaky!
I would be more interested in how The Treaty effects the people of New Zealand, rather than the governments that can come and go. More recently, there has been a clear paucity in any of them that would separate most of them to be any more important than seat filling administrators.
I find that US political division back then hard to imagine. My recollection in the mid 90's is of Bill Clinton being President, and it looked and seemed like happier times, both there and here. There was lots of great TV and movie entertainment. The worst thing in NZ was the two stock market crashes, in succession, the bailouts, and all the rest of it over those years.
I think a great deal for the BS surrounding it is the issue and just what took place is seldom presented in a comprehensively truthful manner, for it to be true it has to be complete “ the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth”. For a start there was no sovereignty, there was occupancy. Sovereignty requires a level of anthropological development that Māori were yet to achieve, they were at the level J K Galbraith defined as “condine”. They hadn’t yet developed language to the point of writing and had a language so incomplete for the post industrialization culture that had subsumed them with their own occupancy that they had to take the English language and transliterate it into a form of pidgin. ( have to wonder about the cultural sensitivity that went into that) I imagine the various churches had a hand in it.
Imagine if the Spanish had conquered and colonised these islands . Then Maori would have had a country resembling the Phillipines. And why are so many Phillipino peoples emigrating from their country of origin. ? Or the Chinese or the Indians or the French (most likely ) could have come to what we know is NZ. ? Imagine. And with the passage of time Maori, with their low tech existence, and whether they liked it or not would have been invaded/colonised by outside forces. Maori should consider their good fortune when by comparison the British settled here , abolishing slavery amongst other things and bringing a democracy where everyone can thrive, as long as the latter make an effort to work together.
Maori became "pakeha" -Visitor-to their equally human brothers and sisters discoveries,inventions,scientific knowledge,technical knowledge,medical knowledge,mechanical,mathematical,psychological,Spiritual,.....
The fact that this needs to be discussed tells us that Maori were the principle factor to the treaty. There was no Maori asking for a treaty with the visitor, it was the visitor asking for a treaty with the Maori in relation to settlement issues by settlers. The behavior of settlers and the settlement of newcomers to a new land meant that there needed to laws and regulation to what?! To "govern" the people and lands in question, which is Aotearoa New Zealand. The confusion, or blatant lie was to which people and what land needed governing. No one in their right mind assigns themselves to be governed nor do they relinquish their lands or property. So the real question is, are we discussing real and accurate facts or are we discussing personal opinions? Just imagine handing in an assignment based on your own opinion, siting no references or submitting any evidence... you'd be given an F for fail! The most informed answers to these treaty questions will only ever be known by those who are impartial to all sides and have an enormous amount of honesty and integrity... everyone and everything else is just meaningless nonsense! But that still dosent stop the ego from raising now does it.. so the only other answer to this problem is that people are demonically bent on their own personal opinions and not so concerned about finding the right answers.. yes yes, everyone knows everything, except that they haven't even read the treaty nor do they speak two languages Maori and English.. so there you go, spelling out the problems for those who are too concerned about themselves and who have no concern for others. 👏👏 well done! It's no wonder NZ had problems.. it's because people don't own mirrors!
Try and find the official opening speeches of the Dunedin Hospital build Today !😡 I was absolutely Disgusted by the racist separatist rhetoric spewing from there lips 😡 Especially from NgniTahu speakers 😡
If Parliament is sovereign & it has legislated for the Waitangi to interpret the Treaty, why don't we just accept that. Otherwise you go against the whole argument that parliament is sovereign just because you don't like the answer
The people of far NSW....todays NZ were saved by becoming sovereign citizens of the new country. Signified by the use of a christian name beginning with an upper case first letter ie J followed by lower case letters to finish the name eg John. Then they used all capitals to denote the surname (business) CITIZEN. John CITIZEN then became a member of the nation state of NEW ZEALAND. This happened to all peoples who became users of the new trading platform WESTPHALIA and subject to the rule of law as provided by the primary owners of this great, unfettered by ethnicity, platform introduced by the present royal familiarity. Nothing has changed in this regard.........but nz has partly euthenized itself from this procedure and is following Israel the US and Ukraine unto a new rules based autocracy which is a law unto itself. So are nzers smart or stupid....you can't have both.
I acknowledge the ills of colonialism but would full or co governance resolve all the ills of Maori failing in socioeconomic, crime, etc statistics? Look in the mirror first and see what whanau are doing to whanau
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Time for a referendum to solve a great deal of issues and would allow our fantastic country to truly grow and be an envy of the world
There's always one , move on you clown.!!@brakyosaurus
👍
Will just reinforce the majority. Democracy is imposed and is weaponiaed against Indeginous people in the own land
@@crazykiwican go harder Tauiwi, God loves a try - er, are Tauiwi (Gentiles and unbeliever) of Maori mmhmm.
@brakyosaurus you Anglo-Saxon and convicts, Lost theirs 50%off this But Maori still Owned the other 50%, Go Figure, you Thieving Buggers.
The treaty is not the problem. The constant and ongoing reinterpretation is.
@@MickeyDC-om3pv well said
I agree bud, constant and ongoing reinterpretation of the signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Starting with the English version (the treaty of Waitangi) all the way through to present day.
Reinterpreted by entitled far left radicals who want unearned power
@brakyosaurusthanks for the reply, but I don't follow. What am I supposed to do with your statements of 'I think' and 'not sure'. Without coming across rude, what do you know as fact to add to the discussion? Many thanks.
@brakyosaurus wow that's a really cool historical link. Thank you for sharing.
Excellent
Julian Batchelor. Stop Cogovernance has it all sorted. A brilliant work.
Yes we need more people likeJulian Batchelor to tell it the way it really is, and get ride of these one eyed radical part Māori shit stirrers.
America is screwed. You are so behind.
@@annetteblack9573 Yes. definitely a declining empire but to stay on topic search Julian Bachelor
Part-maori versus the rest of us, Treaty of Waitangi has been part of our law LESS years than it has not been part of our law. Caused nothing but trouble whenever it has been part of law
Chris Hipkins is losing more and more support for more and more foolish ideas, he never worries about the consequences of his actions or ideas, and that is exactly why he needs to be kept out of any position of leadership
@@J.Smith-rc6wh lobbyists and NGO and the Yanky Thieves at it again. Making working slaves for their Broken Economy.
The treaty itself is not NZ law and never has been. Dipkins is an idiot.
@@J.Smith-rc6whLeftists are never good at thinking ahead to logical consequences of their actions.
So why do part Maori people especially when most are more white than maori. How come they don't acknowl0edge their white heritage ad well. I will tell you why because Msoro get free money and perks whites don't
As a part Maori and i say that because there are no full blooded Maoris anymore i'm more interested in getting prices down so everyone can survive in the country, the treaty ain't going to matter a squat if the country collapses and we are close to that right now and a bunch of grifting politicians and activists ain't going to put food on our tables and thats what the average kiwi should keep in mind, and these pandering polies also need to shut up and do what they were put in office for....
@@hartley9958
Thank you for your reality check.
I have part Maori relatives who agree. I lived in Queensland for some often coming across part Maori people who were employed and many self- employed who said they would always call NZ home often visiting but never wanted to return to a poorer standard of living and ALSO because they didn’t want to be drawn into many family related disharmonies and the negativity of not even trying to fit into the present world.
Maori culture in the 18 th century was truly unique but the average life expectancy was for all peoples was only about 35 .
As my mother used to say
” they were fighting each other so much it’s a wonder they didn’t kill each other out existence.”
Probably would've gone extinct sooner or later if left alone long enough. Natural native NZ is super food poor for humans unless you live next to the ocean.
@@leylandbarr7247 Well, they very nearly did. Left to their own deivces they probably would have, or the French might have aided and abetted them to that end? Just like Maori 'nutured' the Moa (etc) and, of course, the Moriori out of existence.
You are correct and it’s hard to watch these Maori activists in parliament speak utter nonsense and pretend to speak on behalf of all Maori . In reality they are trading off the backs of the hard working Maori who are just like the rest of the country , just trying to put food on the table and keep the power on . We are one country of many races and most of us will stand together . The politicians and activist Maori should not divide us . We are stronger together .
@@utubermax
You probably know that yes, the French settler Langlois purchased from the Maori most of Banks Peninsula hoping to establish a French foothold for the French government in NZ, by annexing the South Island and establishing their own naval base there.
The Treaty was signed shortly before the French could do this .
The British turned up with one of their battleships shortly after learning this and landed in Akaroa planting the Union Jack to stake their claim.
Whereupon the British came to some arrangement with the French about this land purchase.
Apparently the Maori had also sold the same land to several people including the British which Maori were in the habit of doing….selling to multiple people. Some British settlers laid claim to some of that same land.
The British allowed French settlers to keep their purchases. Hence Akaroa and another small town remained French.
My great grandmother was a non-English speaking French settler in Christchurch. She had seven daughters .
Ardern and Hipkins have lead us to a precipice. Thanks for nothing. Hipkins would do all NZ a service by buggering off.
It was kindness ❤️ frm lab n gren n tpm during covid that shine ✨️ coal is blak
It is interesting listening to hear this. The Treaty of Waitangi was an agreement of uniting all New Zealanders under one banner. That is what makes the New Zealand we have today.
But now the racial radical’s have turned it into a gravy train event all it’s done is divide the country more.
@@TheMileswin unfortunately Miles, that isn’t what happened in practice.
For decades, right up until the 70s, following the signing, the Crown made moves, wrote legislation and laws that undermined Māori.
(Native land Court, Tohunga Suppressions Act, Public Works Act etc etc).
This country was built by hard working people, for sure, but also at the expense and off the backs of Māori.
You must be the only person in NZ that believes that
@MadNuz demanding ultimate power once everything is built by someone else isn't being "undermined" lol.
@@AmonAnon-vw3hr what? Read my comment again, then rewrite your to make sense. lol
Over 500 Maori Chiefs ceded sovereignty or government to Britain in the Treaty. The Chiefs, subtribes and all New Zealanders had ownership over their property. All New Zealanders were given the same rights and duties.
Explain why we're there land wars between the Maori and the crown?
Colonials ripped the Maori off an dishonored their promises
@@kentstevens5839 2 different versions mate - te reo version does not cede sovereignty. That’s why this shits a clusterfuck - because 2 versions were written and not translated accurately.
If you think logically about it why would Māori cede sovereignty over things they already owned?
I’m interested to hear your answer.
Yeah Kent, they didn't define "Cede," or Chiefy wouldn't have Signed.
@@MadNuzMaori did not have concept of ownership. They simply existed by doing as they pleased when they pleased. Differences solved by utu. Life was about individual greed and domiance over friend or foe. Nothing has changed or to be proud of.
@@MadNuz Sovereignty and Government are words that have the same or nearly the same meaning according to a thesaurus. The NZ Crown currently has sovereignty over us. We still have ownership rights. Maori were having their property rights and the rights of British subjects, if they signed the Treaty.
Yes, we are heading for disaster. Chris hipkins saying that took things to a whole new level.
@brakyosaurus fair point. Its about to get worse though
@brakyosaurus Happens a lot if you're commenting on this channel. I've had a few removed also, despite the fact my comments are devoid of insults, name calling and derogatory remarks. If your comment is opposite of the views of those who post here, it will most likely get pulled unfortunately.
@brakyosaurus my husband has been banned from the platform comment section for calling them out about the bs artists they had on about the Ukraine War lol they are sensitive
@@summerrei9545 really? i criticised their position on that too (a lot) and i wasnt blocked.
@user-wt4ie6iu6p nope lol. You're just not getting any likes.
It’s time to put all this treaty nonsense and the Waitangi Tribunal out to pasture, they have had there day.
What’s nonsense about the treaty (actually curious)?
@MadNuz are you actually curious? Because I can answer you're question:
Race based policy is nonsense.
(Yes, even if you benefit from it)
Maybe you need to learn some cultural and historical background to your country.
The government isn't above, it is all of us ... our votes make it legitimate, the government serve us.
Its a good theory
The true issue is Maori getting special treatment while the rest of us pay for it.
the true issue is all you folk crying about it everyday expecting a different outcome.the treaty will never be changed to suit the pakeha way,look bud realistically we hear you crying but we couldnt care less,it has zero to do with you or the govern-ment.you dont have to like it,in fact there are boats,planes etc leaving nz daily feel free to jump on 1 n take you whinging ass somwhere else n cry.we arent stopping you
@@jonnkarlsson2362 what treatment all we wanted was our land back not money (that's why you careless peoples moan about it always.) wouldn't be better to pay us Tax Free for 150 years, good idea for business especially if we're supposed to be Partners. Geez I sound like a broken record, namely our suppose partnership. Yeah Right. Nazism is Racism like your buddies Ukraine. USA, NATO.. And fakes Jews, Blackrock, Banks (j, keys buddies) give ours Kiwisaver Back Blackrock thieves.and killers.
Someone with balls has got to tell these arseholes to piss of and get over them selves there no group that needs or untitled to anything special
What’s the ‘special treatment’ you talking bout?
like what?
yup...this quote sums it up..."We're in a giant car heading towards a brick wall and everyone's arguing about where they're going to sit".
With a exhausted pakeha desperately trying to avoid the cliff while a Maori in the passenger seat with swastika tattoos on his face keeps punching him in the head and yelling "stop hitting me bro!" Lol
The Minority doesn't Rule 😊
I guess we will find out soon if that is true or not.
@@mikewalters5815 only the convicts rules right, Tauiwi. Thief your Anglo-Saxon couldn't defeats us Maori hence to draw it up the Treaty. Recognised now a lie stole cheat kills. Look obvious because what happening around the world. The do gooder are telling countries to like stopped making ur country healthy and start bleeding it's resources like electricity gas and oils., and foods. Yes time to eat the West fake foods, democracy.
Interesting word, rule
Worlds' top One% of the, One%? Obviously we Maori won't reach that Status, just an analogy?
@@-KAIX-0405-NZ never need to be there, self reliant and sufficient lands to grow our communities together we did once, without tech, we can diy again. But who not helping who. Zzzz
We sure need a referendum, to sort this out for once and all.
Referendums can manipulate
There are too many lawyers in powerful positions getting big bucks from the grift. Too many useful idiots willing to do violence for the lawyer class/aristocracy.
@JoJoKaat YES because Maori wouldn't have the numbers to win Labour backing Maori hoping to get to goven the only way back for them no thanks
That wont end it. Referendum is a waste of time. Lets become a republic and make a new constitution.
When it comes to Māori or Treaty issues I have noticed that many historical statements made are incorrect, twisted, or completely untrue. The sad thing is that there is rarely a challenge when either an incorrect or false history is used to illustrate a point. We need an office to challenge incorrect statements of history as a matter of urgency.
Totally agree it needs a fine tooth comb
Everyone should be looking at the pod casts from Julian Batchelor, he states the facts. What Mr. Laws is saying is 100% correct, we are sadly in big trouble.
Great work Michael, we have opposite points of view but you make a brilliant point
Finish the settlements, abolish the Waitangi Tribunal and become a republic. Done.
would love to hear how you expect to do that. because i dont think you really understand what that entails.
Agree in principle, but can you imagine the kind of constitution that would be produced by our "intellectual class"? I suspect it would diverge completely from the spirit of the Treaty.
@StvRdhll The first line would read "take up the farm tools, cut down the pakeha!" (In te reo of course)
The division you are talking about has always been here but not to the same degree until JA. One woman in 6 years caused more damage to community relations across all demographics than any one else in NZ history.
There are some, in this country and others, who prosper from division. We need to be one, UNITED, country! Don't let them divide us!
Yip that’s there game shit stir and divide.
How much money has this Treaty cost NZ and who have received the money gone?????. the money that has been paid could be en give the Maori that need it in stead of the Maori that have siphon it off to them selfs . There appears to be one billion dollars paid out by the Treaty of Waitangi where is it all ????????
70 billion
Try 4.5 billion from 1990 till 2019, look it up on google under Treaty of Waitangi pay out’s.
Māori who have settled, settled for 0.003% of what they are actually owed. You should be thanking them. 3 family's in NZ have far more Money and cost the country far far far more in tax evasion than all Iwi settlements put together. You're mad at the wrong crowd
Almost the entire coastline of NZ is currently under claim by different Iwi.
@@MRECRIP1 You are owed nothing,it is all in your head.
You are correct Mr. Laws.
Absolutely 100%.
Appreciate your articulations.
A time for more conscious critical conversations. The labour govt installed woke media make that more challenging by having what appears the dominant control over messaging in NZ. Mass views are aren’t represented, which is a kind of suppression, and anti coalition govt.
My mother also asked a close Maori friend of ours what would have happened to Maori if Captain Cook hadn’t arrived with the British following.
This was at my father’s 80th birthday and they both had a few drinks when she asked her this, and with humour typical of Maori, the lady said “ they would have eaten each other out of existence”.
@brakyosaurus they were quickly running out, without deep sea fishing capabilities they were quickly devastating the coastal populations of fish.
Gisborne museum used to have an exhibition showing the fish bone hooks were being used more and more before being thrown away as larger fish were becoming rarer and rarer.
Well indentified and said, Michael. When I saw that interview of Hipkins, I thought this MUST BE A WATERSHED moment. I was surprised how there seemed to be little 'noise' about this considering what it means, but it will now grow to a crescendo. Bring it on I say. We, the public (not the politicians) of NZ need to have the discussion, as Seymour indentified. We need to have a referendum and lance the suppuratng boil that has been allowed to fester and grow for far too long and which has robbed of us our productivity and our future!
The is negative show ❤ like 👍 jacinda coal is Blaka.
Referendum is the way to go
Can not wait
You will need to live a very long time
As my father used to say in these situations
“ Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile”.
Great advantage of an oral Stone Age language of limited vocabulary - one word can have numerous meanings.
Exactly👍
Oh....much like the English language, right? (wright?...rite?..)
@@Rodtang-x5zNo wrong wrong right.
That is literally what Pākehā have done and continue to do 😅 the absolute irony
@@Rodtang-x5z
About what you gave as an example.
The words you chose may sound the same , but are spelt differently having a different meaning.
“Waka “ alone can have NUMEROUS meanings but is spelt the same.
Maori can thank the missionary Williams who in collaboration with Hongi Hika ( or was it Hongi Hiki?) set up the first Maori/English dictionary.
Maori only had about 5,000 words in their vocabulary ( with 15 letters in the alphabet compared to English 26) compared to English ( of which much has derived from French) whereas English by that time had about 120,000. Certainly having more articulated means of expression.
Well said as always, Keep up the good work you do.
So as a 7th generation New Zealander - non Māori - is it time for me to seek refugee status
Same here
Yes good by see ya later
A lot of the activists in the public sphere appear to be people who will gain immensely if their version of te Tiriti is realised. It all seems a touch disingenuous. The Treaty itself seems very straightforward: Article 1 Sovereignty. Article 2 private property. Article 3 equal rights. It's not particularly well written, but its focus should be obvious to any objective reader.
Thankfully there is the platform! And a few other shows that has popped up as a result of that facist covid response that is allowing thoughts to be aired that otherwise wouldn't be allowed to exist we might be able to grow as a result as a country...
I wish to return home to NZ with my kids, but I am really worried. There is so much conflict here in the UK. Frying pan fire situation, I don’t want much to do with politics, but politics wants a lot to do with me.
Get back here, learn our indigenous language and immerse your children with the culture and people of this land. It will take you less than a year to realise how wrong this guy is talking and how much he stokes fear and hatred.
@@saregama-r8td Oh shut up
@arohanui922 ironically it'll be people like you who will leap like predators to attack them when they arrive.
@@francisheperi4180crybaby
I saw this coming awhile back. All I will say is I"m sending my love ❤out to ALL...
So 120 people sit in the people's house decide what the total population of NEW ZEALAND will do, in one of the most important decisions that this house will make, that is endorse racism into law.
@@mos-p6x Either you with God or them UK USA EU NATO Demons. Join BRICS and dedollarisation., of the USA Dollar the rip off middle man. We will be free from the Evil Chain that's strangling Our once rich Economy. BRICS +Nations is
the Answers. No Lie.
@@NA-sj9jy you are with them, the liers, Thieves, cheating killers,rapist. The Devil Children's wants it all.
The proposed legislation says: "All New Zealanders are equal under the law with the same rights and duties".
@@mos-p6x yeah our friends the Chinese folks were constantly jeers at and taunted with Racism when they came here to the Gold rush days last century. Hey from the ninety onwards Racism exist, maybe our treaty partner had a dislike of being called a Pakeha, well it was a respected word. Which was coin for the priests etc, namely from Maori children to not get mixed up with their own father, they would called out to the priests, Te Pakeha (the white father instead of Pa. (father) Keha(fair skin,), But those that agreed to abolished the Treaty. Will be known as Tauiwi (Gentiles and unbeliever) and built Nothing Together. Almost Over for us otherwise. I meant Spiritually.. TWR our Saviour (not only Maori but the World. Abridged.
@@kentstevens5839 Tauiwi Dreams are coming true, likes what our Prophet said. Just like the Bible especially the back pages where the End day is nears. You careless people who agreed with the coalition party, will not have a second chance. You will hop into the furnace with the West losers. Not even sad about it.
Thank you! It's wonderful to listen to the voice of reason!
An excellent but scary analysis. I thought long ago that was the outcome.
Great analysis Michael.
Brilliantly Said!!
The last Lab govt was in large measure a radical Maori activist political party. Willie Jackson succeeded in transforming TVNZ into a vehicle for championing language, culture & propaganda, Mahuta pushed co-governance and Maori wards into local govt, Kiri Allen managed to reduce the prison muster (which coincidentally reduced the number of Maori in prisons) with apparent ethnicity-based appointments in Wellington becoming the norm and 'treaty principles' ideas widely promoted via all NZ govt agencies. So in that light, Chris Hipkins recent comments about Maori sovereignty should hardly come as a surprise as the historical 'workers-party' is defunct now and Lab may as well be honest and instead change its name and formally amalgamate with Te Pati Maori as the Te Pati Labour ethnicity party.
All mihi and no mahi
I saw the clip of Chris Hipkins' interview on sovereignty and for him to give such a blunt and unequivocal response that sovereignty wasn't ceded by Maori, when there is so much division over the interpretation of the treaty, was simply reckless and beyond stupid. One can forgive Luxon's equally clear affirmation that sovereignty was ceded by Maori because he was simply following orthodoxy - established practice.
And yet there is no mention of the musket wars which Maori were tired of fighting just before treaty was signed.
@brakyosaurus guns were used as a currency between everyone. SOME Chefs would of signed the treaty to stop the years and years of fighting between themselves which was happening long before Europeans started trading guns
@brakyosaurus nope lol. The Maori were desperately sourcing them from everywhere they could.
Zimbabwe here we come….
Why do so many harp on about just the Treaty of Waitangi. New Zealand is currently party to more than 1,900 treaties, We have 6 Treaties with Israel. As well as many others that are not yet in force. A treaty is an international agreement between countries or international entities (eg the United Nations, World Trade Organisation, or World Bank) that's legally binding under international law. So why is this never talked about? Ova
6 cheaties with Israhell!! 😱
Because all those others are proper treaties
And people done rave on about them and their meanings for the next 180 years
@@Digmen1 These Treaties are there to suppress US as Maori/Pacific Islanders and New Zealand Citizens. They are created to do exactly what is going on ..Division. They alienate the peoples from all the things we should be able to Practice as Sovereign Human beings. We need to come together as One with Respect for each others Cultures and Beliefs. United we Stand... Divided we Fall. Government/Crown/Vatican need to be held accountable for there Treatment of the People. Peace, Happiness and prosperity to You and Your Whanau (Family). Ova
The Hispanics in Florida hates the Asians too 😂....our cousin lives there & I went to visit her twice in the last 30 years so I also experienced the racism from the Hispanics at the Daytona Beach Airport Florida.....but the African Americans were so kind to me in the Southern States: Lousiiana(New Orleans), Tennessee (Memphis), Atlanta. The whites vary..some are lovely & some are racist too...just didn't expect it from the Hispanics 😅😅
There's racism in every race. Not one race owns it.That shouldn't be surprising. It's sad but true .
Just do what the treaty says no more no less dont need any interpretation
It was done, Government was formed 1852 with Law & Order for all
Jacinda started it all.
No, well before that. When the definition of Maori was changed.
Keep this discussion going Michael Laws, for as long as it takes.
NZ Govt elected by NZ citizens runs this country and what Laws it's legislated is for all citizens of NZ.
We never realised that as National was working itself closer to the centre as an attempt to attract the swing vote ( big mistake , having principles to stand by would have been better) at the same time Labour was moving further and further left and are more than happy to see a civil war in order to stay or as now get power. We are here in NZ, not alone with this problem. The whole Western world is sitting on a knife-edge, and it is very scary . Michael, those thin edge of the wedge callers you brutalised in your talk back days don't seem so silly, do they.?
Quite a history about the Maori - put the Inca's or the Aztecs to shame in degeneration. Outcast from the Cook Islands during the 13th century as weaker primitive Neolithic people by later waves of Polynesians (Maori were from the original wave of primitive Polynesians pushed right out across the Eastern Pacific by successive stronger more advanced groups arriving from the west). They were outcast on rafts and some floated to the North East Coast of NZ driven by the South Equatorial Current and were stranded for 500 years. The weaker were pushed down to the South Island or Chathams etc. So the South Island Maori (had their own language) were the weakest of the weak. They were captured and eaten as 'Slave flesh' by the northern Maori doing raids. (Well they all ate each other - 80% of Maori pre European were dark skinned easily fattened slaves farmed and eaten by a lighter skinned 'Ariki' thin wiry elite royal caste). So it was with some righteousness as well as British cunning that they armed the southern Maori who then with muskets launched a genocidal war on the north.. That plus measles & flu halved the Maori population and removed most of the elite. The British then liberated the slaves and outlawed cannibalism. The northern Maori fought with the British against the south bad west Maori 'rebels'. The Maori sued for peace and a treaty was signed that removed all sovereignty and made them subjects to the English crown where the English would protect them from each other. Land could only be sold to or via the Crown. Maori could live on their reservations with native custom but none did. The treaty of Waitangi is strikingly clear in that the Maori cede sovereignty completely and become citizens of Great Britain - all 3 clauses lock that in. Nothing in today's 'Maori' culture is authentic. The music - all European (Maoris did not have tonal music, the songs are missionary tunes or introduced - Poi dance is from Islands and Stick dance from old Malaya. The carvings and art - all European - Arabesques that was the fashion at the time. Original Maori had limited dash carving and no painting of objects. No written language - all the syntax & grammar plus vowel inflection is European. No technology - some lagoon canoes and wood or stone Neolithic tools. No food sources - like pigs or crops - they left that all behind, all they had was a weak inbred fox (now extinct), some rats and a weak dismal pacific yam. They ate out all the bird-life including 10 species of Moa and 46 other bird species, didn't know how to farm the sea as were island people and so they turned to societal cannibalism. Today - no full blood or half blood left. No genuine tradition and almost all are offspring of Maori slave females sold to white settlers for muskets or food. -So more fake than the 'Sioux' or 'Cherokee' or 'Crow' who had at least retained some genuineness about who they were and their history. -Everything you 'saw or experienced' is fake. A totally convected disneyfied tokenistic set of inventions fueled by a grievance culture of mixed-race imposters fetishing a false past bad history because it pays benefits. 'This Horrid Practice' - Professor Paul Moon, "A Savage Country" Professor Paul Moon 'Behind The Tattooed Face' - Heretaunga Pat Baker, 'Anthropology In The South Seas' - H D Skinner
Your argument that Maori's were savages in the past implying that they needed the british is absurd. All nations started off in barbarity at some point. Had the Maori been given more time on their own they most certainly would have developed more in the functioning of their society. Stop with the whole 'Moari were savages', so were your ancestors at some point.
How does Moon's stance that 'modern Maori culture is inauthentic' somehow supports the idea that Maori seceded sovereignty? Bit of a stretch.
@@LarryMilmine-e9r Upoke is the term for Maori slaves. They were about 80% of the population prior to the Europeans. They were the primary source of protein in what was a horrific degeneration of Polynesian society into rampart structural cannibalism - a period of horror that lasted some 500 years until they were rescued by the European. The Maori had come with the original Polynesian caste structure of royals and bonded commoners after being outcast and set adrift on rafts to end up stranded in NZ.
Within a recorded period of about 8 generations this then degenerated into 9 different language groups ( no common language) and a horrific two tier ethnically and racially based caste structure.
- Ariki / from the original royal elite - these were documented and painted or drawn as lighter to white skinned, wiry, smaller boned, fine featured, thin nose, thin lipped, straight hair, anxious, aggressive cannibalistic ruling class. Upoke / from the original bonded commoners (such bonding or serfdom broke down in NZ as land was unconstrained) and slaves. Upoke or poke was used in conjunction with Kuku or Kiko ie a Upoke Kiko was slave flesh - or else poke singular or pokes group).
The Upoke slaves were the 'wealth' of the Maoris and raiding and capturing other clans and tribes Upoke was their primary industry. These Upoke were dark skinned, larger limbed, thick lipped, flat nosed, curly haired, easily fattened, low IQ and sedentary. The settlements of the Maoris (Pa's) were in valley passes where they could anticipate attack from the sea and run into the bush behind. A Pa's very design is as a cannibal storage camp of humans as slave eating flesh with perimeters controlling access and confining the slaves. Have a good look at the original designs of the Pa's and what their real purpose was. Upoke females were normally killed and eaten at birth but on arrival of the Europeans -( trade was for Upoke boiled male heads carved with European arabesques eg 'Maori Moko designs - all European) but with a shortage of that & the trade being policed - the Maori Ariki turned to selling young Upoke slave girls to the sailors and settlers for guns. Often as records show, the Ariki would line up the young Upoke on the beach or field and then tell the Europeans they would all be slaughtered and eaten unless the European met their demands. As such the European settlements were flooded with Upoke slaves, mainly young females being the demand. The Europeans bred with these slave females gave immunity to the mixed race offspring disease such as measles & flu that full blood Maori did not have. Again this is subject to much record (1880 onwards) about the 'revitalization' and out breeding of the Maori being their only path of survival / there was much concern the Maori would become extinct so all Europeans & Maori were much focused on such outbreeding to ensure that a trace of Maori may exist in the future. By 1903 there were no Ariki left and only 14 very old full blood Upoke. The last full blood died in 1944 - as reported by the minister of Maori affairs much later to the NZ parliament. The marked differences between the Ariki and the slave caste were much commented on, discussed and captured in paintings & portraits. Almost all part Maori today would be offspring of Europeans & Upoke slaves - the filters of inter Maori fratricide between the Ariki clans & disease acted as a filter to remove both Ariki and full bloods.
"A Savage Country" Professor Paul Moon' This Horrid Practice' - Professor Paul Moon, 'Behind The Tattooed Face' - Heretaunga Pat Baker, 'Anthropology In The South Seas' - H D Skinner
Nobody is interested in white supremacy racist talking points except for the white supremacy racists. So boring.
@@LarryMilmine-e9r They had 500 years of solitude in which time they devolved from a relatively cultured and stable society to a depraved, cannibalistic nightmare.
Good, no more for the cult of the victim. The world owes them nothing 😂
Investigate Seymours links to Atlas.
very good
As Politicians don't seem to know what a 'woman' is & would allow any man to identify as a woman, then surely we can all, & everyone who arrives from now on 'identify' as Māori - then we all have the same rights 🙂
That is what Maori think as well. All Maori governed by Maori.
Except Maori isn't just a word. But join us we have cookies. We will need garden hands. How's your back?
@@tracymichaelsen493 Did you mean Maori or Māori ?
@@klburroughsnz Pakeha or Poaka....take you pick of whatever you like
@@tracymichaelsen493 You have to choose because they are words of indigenous peoples not those who came after
@@tracymichaelsen493 You're probably right because there was no written language of the indigenous peoples, so I can also choose neither
Your right. Common sense needs to brought back. New Zealand needs to leave old rot behind and move forward as a multicultural nation
Michael life is all about who you know.
Easy ...Get rid of the crown.....No treaty ..then NEW ZEALAND FOR ALL NEW ZEALANDERS!!!! its called Sovereignty Lets Make New Zealand Great Again..oh ...and keep the "NO NUKES"
That is a good analysis
You'd do the country a big favor by exploring the flow of money and incentives for 'flow ' of the young in a fiscal sense
Trouble is they didn't get here first ...
No Michael “the people” are at the top and the government under us working for us
Michael, what assurance can you give (if any) that Seymour ONLY wants to have a discussion about the Treaty Principles considering he wants to hold a referendum, and a Treaty Principles Bill he'd like to see become law?
Are you sure he only wants a discussion? Because there a whole lot of people out there he has not yet convinced that a discussion is all he wants...
Unfortunately for the people of New Zealand Michael Law has told us the truth. Both Labour & National Parties have led us to this. Shame on them. Most Maori have Pakeha ancestory, but there is no free money if you are Pakeha. We are suppose to be a modern democracy where everyone is treated equally. Yeah right !
What a mess. Bring in the historians! Oops, looks like the academic ones have been compromised.
So what middle ground is on offer?
What about the treaty of waikato in 1867 where the Maori king seeded sovereignty to stop the war.
Is surrender really ceding fool?
Maybe before resorting name calling and show your low level of intelligence and lack of understanding you should educate yourself or go an get some education, you could start by reading both the treaty of Waitangi were on article 1 they ceded sovereignty, and then read the treaty of waikato were the king receded sovereignty to save because he could see they were on the losing side of the war,
We are all kiwis but are people racist much. I get that anti Maori are sick of hearing whats happening to maori people what continues to happen but put you in our shoes yous cry. Its tiring listen to you all excuse the fact nz keeps kicking maori down. Do not make us like America nz will never be the same
"Things got real". Hunt for the Wilderpeople.
Yea and the follow on from that, as a kiwi, i don't want to invest here now. I don't want to buy a house. I don't want to back NZ stock yada yada yada because NZ now looks shaky!
Leave stage right. Haere ra
Its financialy stuffing new zealand the greed of theses people is unbelievable
Scotland and Ireland had the same issue with catholic and prodicent.
Very sad state of affairs
For Pakeha.
I would be more interested in how The Treaty effects the people of New Zealand, rather than the governments that can come and go. More recently, there has been a clear paucity in any of them that would separate most of them to be any more important than seat filling administrators.
This vote I can't wait for !...drizzling hard done by horries..
Sins of the fathers bearing fruit.
Yes but we will not hold that against Māori, after all it was a long time ago.
Impossible. Maori will never be held accountable.
They have the global majority on their side, always have, always will.
Read the book cry the wounded land good read
I find that US political division back then hard to imagine.
My recollection in the mid 90's is of Bill Clinton being President, and it looked and seemed like happier times, both there and here. There was lots of great TV and movie entertainment.
The worst thing in NZ was the two stock market crashes, in succession, the bailouts, and all the rest of it over those years.
The monarchy withs firepower and government order one man one vote is at the head today. 18:30
I think a great deal for the BS surrounding it is the issue and just what took place is seldom presented in a comprehensively truthful manner, for it to be true it has to be complete “ the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth”. For a start there was no sovereignty, there was occupancy. Sovereignty requires a level of anthropological development that Māori were yet to achieve, they were at the level J K Galbraith defined as “condine”. They hadn’t yet developed language to the point of writing and had a language so incomplete for the post industrialization culture that had subsumed them with their own occupancy that they had to take the English language and transliterate it into a form of pidgin. ( have to wonder about the cultural sensitivity that went into that) I imagine the various churches had a hand in it.
Imagine if the Spanish had conquered and colonised these islands .
Then Maori would have had a country resembling the Phillipines.
And why are so many Phillipino peoples emigrating
from their country of origin. ?
Or the Chinese or the Indians or the French (most likely ) could have come to what we know is NZ. ? Imagine.
And with the passage of time Maori, with their low tech existence, and whether they liked it or not would have been invaded/colonised by outside forces.
Maori should consider their good fortune when by comparison the British settled here , abolishing slavery amongst other things and bringing a democracy where everyone can thrive, as long as the latter make an effort to work together.
Maori became "pakeha" -Visitor-to their equally human brothers and sisters discoveries,inventions,scientific knowledge,technical knowledge,medical knowledge,mechanical,mathematical,psychological,Spiritual,.....
Judging by the number of Pakeha expressing respect for the passing of Tuheitia I'd judge race relations as pretty good
Was it the same when queen Elizabeth died 😂😂😂😂?
When 2 tribes go to war 😊😅😮😂😮😅😊😅😮😂
The fact that this needs to be discussed tells us that Maori were the principle factor to the treaty. There was no Maori asking for a treaty with the visitor, it was the visitor asking for a treaty with the Maori in relation to settlement issues by settlers. The behavior of settlers and the settlement of newcomers to a new land meant that there needed to laws and regulation to what?! To "govern" the people and lands in question, which is Aotearoa New Zealand. The confusion, or blatant lie was to which people and what land needed governing. No one in their right mind assigns themselves to be governed nor do they relinquish their lands or property. So the real question is, are we discussing real and accurate facts or are we discussing personal opinions? Just imagine handing in an assignment based on your own opinion, siting no references or submitting any evidence... you'd be given an F for fail! The most informed answers to these treaty questions will only ever be known by those who are impartial to all sides and have an enormous amount of honesty and integrity... everyone and everything else is just meaningless nonsense! But that still dosent stop the ego from raising now does it.. so the only other answer to this problem is that people are demonically bent on their own personal opinions and not so concerned about finding the right answers.. yes yes, everyone knows everything, except that they haven't even read the treaty nor do they speak two languages Maori and English.. so there you go, spelling out the problems for those who are too concerned about themselves and who have no concern for others. 👏👏 well done! It's no wonder NZ had problems.. it's because people don't own mirrors!
You can't have a treaty with yourself. There is no yin without the yang.
Try and find the official opening speeches of the Dunedin Hospital build Today !😡
I was absolutely Disgusted by the racist separatist rhetoric spewing from there lips 😡
Especially from NgniTahu speakers 😡
Maori to enhance principles, what rewards for aoteroa
Looks like we will be going to .”the mattresses “ in the not too distant future
Lighting is terrible
Brightness needs turning uP! 😎
@@Peter_Pepper_Lovethat's the problem the lighting is far to bright
@@HEILEST Michael thinks it makes him look younger 🤭
Watch skeletons in our closet very interesting
@brakyosaurus can you point me to the pre-european libraries where I can read first hand accounts disproving it?
If Parliament is sovereign & it has legislated for the Waitangi to interpret the Treaty, why don't we just accept that. Otherwise you go against the whole argument that parliament is sovereign just because you don't like the answer
They were wrong to do it, 50 years hindsight proves it
The problem is the clowns on the Waitangi Tribunal are biased and are only interested in there own agenda.
Any mention of kiingi tūheitia?
@@NA-sj9jy soft fairy’s lol 🤫
Literally talked about it at length in the show prior to this one.
@@AmonAnon-vw3hr really I was looking for it only saw the most recent one trashing Māori haha
Te Tiriti is the only reason you were allowed here Michael, respect it or ✈️👋🏼
Yes all Treaties all around the world were needed. Now that ethnic people are educated they now need tweeking? Really? For who
@tracymichaelsen493 I really don't care just don't be a racist and we all good. Disrespect the culture and we can rumble all day
Yes, it must go!
And its very one sided and we pay for it all
And the crown or others are not allowed to give evdence
Why are the 20 people in Waitangi Treaty tribunal allowed to interpret the Treaty the way they want to???
14 are biased maori.
It is time to have a language test- to determine citizenship in New Zealand. There are three official languages, in this country.
There would be no NZ politics without the treaty. Grow up rates bludger. How much money did the Dunedin rate payer give you ths week?
This govt would fit right in to the south of the USA and this Govt is taking us down that path in NZ. This govt will split NZ apart if we let them.
The people of far NSW....todays NZ were saved by becoming sovereign citizens of the new country. Signified by the use of a christian name beginning with an upper case first letter ie J followed by lower case letters to finish the name eg John. Then they used all capitals to denote the surname (business) CITIZEN. John CITIZEN then became a member of the nation state of NEW ZEALAND. This happened to all peoples who became users of the new trading platform WESTPHALIA and subject to the rule of law as provided by the primary owners of this great, unfettered by ethnicity, platform introduced by the present royal familiarity. Nothing has changed in this regard.........but nz has partly euthenized itself from this procedure and is following Israel the US and Ukraine unto a new rules based autocracy which is a law unto itself. So are nzers smart or stupid....you can't have both.
I acknowledge the ills of colonialism but would full or co governance resolve all the ills of Maori failing in socioeconomic, crime, etc statistics? Look in the mirror first and see what whanau are doing to whanau