I owned a Sportwagon diesel ( un fortunately a cheater). The low end torque was excellent and I got 42 mpg on highway travel. My DSG was sweet and smooth. Yes a clutch car is much better than an automatic with a torque; the DSG has 2 clutches and the computer shifts faster and better shift points than any human. Your manual is slower and gets worse gas mileage. Your stick lever in your right hand and left foot on clutch pedal makes your car slower. The pleasure is nostalgia.
DSG is quite simply the future of transmissions for combustion engines. I have one in my golf, albeit its only a 2 litre tdi but it goes like a train. To really experience a manual transmission and actually have fun while using it, you need road with no speed limits and no law trying to chase you, like a race track, but commuting from city to city in stop start traffic with speed limits of up to 60 MPH? Id much rather favour comfort.
Have you ever serviced a DSG ? every 20k miles it needs to be done, look it up then compare it to how to service a manual. Automatic is the way of the future, DSG is just a novelty ..
Does anyone else notice that at 3:04 he is in (+ -) Tiptronic mode? He's not in Sport. He just pushed the lever left of D. Confirmed by the fact that he doesn't push the button to pull it back to S. Am I the only one driving a VW DSG here?
The stability control was defeated last year and the instructions are widely available on the internet. I had it done on my car at a very reputable shop for $50 and am thrilled with the results.
@msbladeliger D is drive mode and S is "sport" mode. In sport mode, the car changes gears at higher revs for better performance. The + and - is manual mode where you can choose to shift gears yourself. If you push it towards the + you upshift and it you push down to the -, you downshift.
Had a DSG in a '13 Passat TDI and loved it. Sold the car to restructure some things because my youngest is going to college soon. I would like to have another Passat TDI/DSG when the time is more right. Best transmission I've ever seen and driving semi trucks for a living and owning all sorts of auto's I have seen about all circumstances regarding transmissions.
All DSG gearboxes have a "lull zone" when you try to go slowly. In a manual transmission car, you can feather the throttle and clutch to crawl along slowly (like an automatic transmission's torque converter). A DSG needs to be either in or out of gear, requiring you to give it enough throttle to engage 1st gear. When parking or in traffic, the car will either sit still or lurch forward before you slam on the brakes to avoid the obstacle ahead. Even the 2013 Porsche PDK has the same problem.
At manual start, he would keep the revs at about 4k, but it drops massively when he releases thee clutch. You can listen to how much more revs of the line are stable on the DSG run
Unless you go for a big turbo setup you should go for a DSG, mine is a 7 speed one and i was initially concerned about it's operation, but it works perfectly and also did a remap, and the result is even greater
I think a lot of people missed the point of this test. It's more about consistency than which is faster. He is just showing how the DSG will do it anywhere at any time consistently where as the manual relies on the driver to be perfect, which obv some people will want, others will prefer the reliability of the DSG... Sutcliffe is awesome
I would love to drive a DSG, but I would not want to own one in the long run..... that half second you gain with the DSG during the 0-60, you will loose the time (and money) at the repair shop in the long run.... me, I am buying a MANUAL
A DSG is a manual transmission inside, only difference is it shifts for you. Volkswagen has been making those transmissions since the early 90's in very high priced cars like the Bugatti and Lamborghini. Their first production car they put it in was in 2001. So they have had a lot of time to perfect their DSG, and as someone who works on transmissions for a living, I can say I have never seen one come in the shop for anything other than an oil change.
ImyurZero Hi buddy, unfortunately I have two friends who will disagree with you... the Mechatronics Units failed on their asses (OK, the cars had just over 100,000 km each on their MKV GTIs) I am well aware how a Dual-Clutch Synchromesh Gearbox works (DCT, DSG, 7G-Tronic, PDK, etc, etc) I don't doubt the robustness of the synchromesh and clutch and gear bits on a DSG.... its the Mechatronics unit, that I don't trust. Unfortunately I live outside Europe and getting the right grade transmission fluid can be a bit of an issue here. It seems these double-clutch gearboxes don't like any moisture with their transmission fluids, which a manual can tolerate with ease. DSG gearboxes don't seem to like hot and humid climates (maybe why European cars are less affected, colder less humid climates) There has also recalls in Australia and China on both the 7-speed DQ200 and 6-speed DQ250 gearboxes.... this is just one link: www.theaustralian.com.au/executive-living/motoring/volkswagen-in-damage-limitation-mode-after-recalls/story-fngmee2f-1226664115767?nk=17126518d22077b1c97dae1e704ba69e
JimB Old thread I know, but I think alot comes down to driving location (urban vs rural/semi-rural) and servicing. Most DSG units say oil change each 40k miles, but think what a massive difference their is if you do 40k driving in a city vs rural. You could easily have 10 times the number of gear changes during that 40k which is why I would never buy a DSG car with over 20k on the clock and would do the oil change straight away. The DSG oil change should be done on a certain number of gear changes and not on a number picked out of the air to suit servicing intervals. This should be easy to implement but manufacturers don't seem to want to do this sadly.
Alex Graham I don't think that true really, I bought mine at 32k and did the DSG change right away. It had never been serviced, and the fluid actually looked pretty good. It was a bit darker than new but it was thick and looked really good. I think the company that makes the trans knows it best, and I trust when they say 40k is good.
My stock 2003 24V VR6 GTI can hit 60 MPH in 6.5 seconds. I raced a manual Golf R today (VW exec's car here in the midwest), and we were neck and neck from a standstill all the way up to, and at, 60, 70, and 80 MPH!
On manual Gold R the driver keeps AC at fullblast of lowsetting... which means workload for it. Just pointing it out. It takes littlebit power to keep the ac running.
@MrBabirusa isn't only a semi auto gearbox, I think you can change it yourself, like you just give it a wee push forward to change up and pull it back to change down.
I drive a DSG MK6GTI and I have to say, for a car that doesn't have tons of horsepower like this it's pretty rewarding if you have that perfect shifting gearbox that helps you catch up other cars in its class, but for cars like EVO and STI and I would definitely go with Manuel
@msbladeliger In S mode you don't have the option to shift gears yourself. The paddle shifters work the same as the + - on the shifter. I have a regular Passat B6 so I don't have paddle shifters but I've driven cars that have that and I think you have to move the shifter over to the + - in order to be able to use the paddle shifters. And yea it is weird to have both + - and paddle shifts but I guess they give you the option of using either method to shift gears manually. Hope that makes sense.
It doesn't matter that he was driving the stick leisurely compared to flooring the DSG. People don't buy VWs for 0-60 (or quarter mile) straight line performance, they buy them for the suspension, handling, and efficiency. I would rather know which transmissions gets there faster when traveling a curved line. One thing the author didn't mention is DSG has a $600-700 maintenance charge every 40K miles.
I used to be one of those people that dislike the DSG transmission until I really tested one and I got enlighten, the idea here is control over the gear changes, and DSG gives you that control at the blink of an eye. I live in U.S. but I think getting a Golf R over my current R32 MkV is out of the question, the only thing I like about the new R is the improvements in the suspension and the looks of the new body, other than that there's no justification, performance numbers are disappointing.
Having owned three GTIs all with DSG I often come in for a bit of flack from the manual boys. I have no problem with you preferring a manual. Be greatful that VW still offers you the choice. What I do disagree with is that you negatively commenting on something you have either never experienced and or lived with or have only driven around the block. Perhaps the answer is to have one of each in the garage?
I have never been interested in Automatic gearboxes. In 2005 I got a Polo and specified a manual gearbox with a diesel engine. In about 2007 a friend of mine got a Golf with DSG and went on and on about how good it was. I keep saying "Nah" until he told me to have a go in it. I was amazed at how good the DSG was. Myself and my other half are expecting a little one in January so I got a Skoda Octavia VRS TDi for use as a family car, with a DSG gearbox. The DSG is cleaner and more economical 10/10
I have a Golf Mk5 1.9TDI with the manual gearbox, mapped to 150bhp and 265lb ft torque. As I'm getting another Golf Mk5 next (either the 2.0TDI, GTI or the 1.4TSI 170), I test drove a 1.4 TSI 170 with the DSG box. I've always said "Manuals are better", blah blah - but honestly, I found the DSG brilliant. It was a great gearbox, responded well, smooth, plus with the paddles on the wheel it's as much of a manual as anything else. Blips beautifully on downchanges too..
Well looks like this will be the first and last Autocar video I watch. Any "auto" enthusiast who chooses an automatic over a manual is simply killing true driving passion. So bravo autocar, can't wait until you're all out of jobs when you support autonomous cars also.
This seems to be an emissions mandate in 13 states (CA and the east coast) and will most likely be expanded to the rest of the US soon. ALL car manufacturers must meet this mandate. The 2.0T is affected particularly because of the way a turbo works - it's not instant on, instant off. When you depress the clutch, you disengage the engine from the transmission and you're coasting. While it may be annoying, it's very rarely dangerous. It's software, not the engine itself, so look for a fix soon.
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what about the driving experience? in my oppinion, manual gearbox will always be my favourite, and it's cheaper. It gives so much to the driving experience, even if it means it's slower a little. you should have waitid until it dries up a little, maybe you would have a better result
Yes, I've even driven them on a track when I've instructed students with GTIs w/DSGs. Technically, it's more accurate to say the DSG has an automatic mode since it's a "dual clutch" transmission. It shifts faster, but in tight corners your hands are not in the correct position to "shift" on the wheel. I race a vintage 911 and prefer a manual transmission because of the feedback I get from the car and the road. Plus, you can't use a phone, eat, drink, read, shave, etc. only DRIVE!!!
thing is.........the next gears already selected with dsg so of course youre saving time during a change. i dont see what weve learnt here and dsg didnt suddenly come along when the R was launched.
@cody227 Jusst making a comment not trying to be rude but it's not really heavier in my opinion because it's just the doors. the 2 door has the back seats and every other thing that the 4 ddoor has please correct me if you know of anything else that makes it heavier.
I disagree that the DSG is necessarily 'better'. I have the 2010 GTI 6 spd manual. I have drive manual since my second car and love it. Even if the car doesn't actually get 0-60 faster on Manual vs DSG/Auto, it still feels faster and is more fun. In addition, you gain more control over the car, esp. in winter conditions. In the end, it's what the individual driver wishes to have.
i think whats more amazing is not so much of which is faster or better, but the fact that the DSG maintains the same time for all 3 runs. on a personal note.. i definitely prefer a conventional manual still.
I'm not saying my way is the only way. It's just that every generation has people who cling to a past principle like the manual car. Not hating on manuals because I have driven them a few time. What I do admire about manual enthusiasts is that they know how to preserve the culture of manual transmissions. I do not want to see manual cars go away but I do appreciate how automated technology can make life easier so to say. It all comes down to preferences. I can't change people. Only myself.
Everyone comments on how fast the up changes are in a dsg gear box. But no one talks about about how slow the down shifts are. I will give you an example. You come into a 2nd gear cnr, in a manual you hard on the brakes 4 Th to 3 rd and then 2nd, using the clutch to match the engine speed. As for the Dsg, 4th to 3rd computer thinks about it for a while until it thinks the engine speed is ok. 3rd to 2nd the same again. As a golf r owner, who has driven both transmissions, I would never go a dsg
I Have driven a Golf GTI Edition 35 yesterday and normaly I am a fan of manual gearboxes but the 6 speed DSG in GTI changed my mind, I love it. The Audi A5 7 Speed gearbox was not that good in this car I would prefer a maual gearbox
@electricfeel2012 But those cars aren't Soley weight loss it's also increased performance with hp and tq as well as handling spoilers, springs shocks, stickier tires and last but not least more aggressive transmission settings, put a dsg 2 door vs dsg 4 door, the difference is barely .1 seconds, before getting my gti I drove a 4 door gti and 2 door gti with dsg the only time you know you have two doors is when you look back..
I feel sad that there are so few reviews of this car. And in addition to that you find this. Now a days I really don't care if the DSG in S mode will be faster. Is it something you would use in an everyday basis? If not I would rather listen to the experience of driving both cars. With fun and sillyness many times it is easier to get those feelings from Top Gear. I am waiting for them to test this vehicle. So far I want a 5-door manual in the US. To upgrade it from my DSG GTI.
@xXAnchormonXx i dont know what the exact wieght gain for the extra 2 doors is but it does make a difference, why do u think the ferra scuderia and the lambo superleggera (sorry if i mispelled anything) were made? these 2 cars are identical to the regular model expect a couple hundred punds have been shaved off i belive the lambo only shaves off about 300 or 400 punds so, why would they try so hard for something that doesn matter? that amount of weight can make a huge difference in a race
@kenmastersmaster lol..... so what do you think the STi and Evo are? They're basically cheap econoboxes with AWD and a turbo. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
@gators12707 Not true. The Golf R is based off of the Golf body style of course. Well the 2 Door has the same size and weight front doors as a four door does.
the only reason the DSG was faster is that it launched better because it did an automatic launch. you can actually launch better in a manual, just get revs a little higher and let the clutch come hard.. not full on, but pretty hard, and the AWD will grip. steve shifts well but the launch wasnt really good. maybe he just didnt want to ruin the test car's clutch and transmission ;)
I noticed he actually put the gear into manual mode and not sport. Obviously he knows that the computer system will automatically shift it anyway to prevent engine damage.
@knonow you said the dsg is better, but it can not take as much power as a built manual transmission. Manual is not dead because dual clutch gear boxes and automatic manuals can not take as much power as a good old fashioned manual transition.( well they can but it costs ALLOT more to build, and a dsg cant be built by some guy in his garage)
@bobrec3GTI A 5 door version of the same car will always be heavier than a 3 door version and indeed less torsionally rigid = less well handling than the 3 door
I'm wondering how much you actually know about cars. You can shift gears using the shifter as well which puts your hands in the same as using a manual. Also just because its a dual clutch doesn't make an auto or manual. It's an automatic transmission with a manual mode because it's an automatic by default. You have to put it into manual mode. BTW automatic transmissions have a clutch too. You just don't control it with a pedal like a manual. It uses fluid and a computer to operate the clutch.
cars a/c is on that will lower the usable hp tho.. and wet floor that would reduce the tires grip because of temperature of tires and also its wet more slippery ground, more skid = slower you accelerate
I have never really understood what the big deal is with 0-60 times. So what the DSG is a little faster, these cars are about handling and fun, not 0-60 times. Pick which is more fun and go with it. (6-speed)
@TheJeddyB you took the words right outta my mouth. its not about how fast it is, or economical, or better or whatever... its about pure driving pleasure and lets face it, if you know how to drive a manual, and i mean REALY know how to drive a manual, only then can you understand what we're on about...
Nice video. I would typically opt for a manual but since the DSG is as good as it is I think it's the better choice if you don't mind driving without a clutch.
@lordoftheriffs79 Speaking of a reamp, the 7 speed already has remap options? The 6 speed has some options but i've never seen anything to the last one one, the dry DSG...
obviously personal preference plays a role in what kind of car you want to drive, and you have to take into account that preferences are entirely subjective. driving a manual is loads of fun, feeling that extra bit of connection to the car, but I love my DSG all the same. it keeps the revs high and changes gears at inhuman speeds. a far cry from a regular automatic slushbox, since it's essentially two manuals mated together with a pneumatic clutch...
Best Motoring has already tested this with the GTi, it doesn't have much to do with 4 doors v.s 2 doors. Even a pro racing driver can't beat the shifting of the DSG box. It's simply too fast and efficient. Even if you're a superhuman you can't shift in 8ms. It can upshift 2 gears but your foot even touches the clutch.
Really not saying automatics are the end of the world, but they take away some of the enjoyment that you get when drive a car. HOWEVER some cars just don't suit well with manual, Nissan GT-R for example, one of the primary features that make it outstanding is its dual-clutch gearbox. However when you are shopping for a car that you can have fun with on the back roads, like 1 series BMW or something similiar (Toyota GT86), you should go with the manual, as you won't be posting lap times anyway.
Sure, if you're talking lap times i'd take the DSG everyday. But I would buy a GTi purely for the fun of the drive - which in my long experience of driving both DSG and manuals, belongs firmly and forever in the manual camp. There's no replacement for heal and toeing and a perfect gear change :) Of course, if your only bothered with the school run or going down the gym, then get the DSG.
I tried GTI with DSG and manual.. .and I choose manual, because I can feel car better, it's more engaging and not so slower if you have good practice and know how to use stick... Also manual car is lighter and has better handling, because you have 35kg less in the nose. Much better choice for track is manual. Also manual is signifficantly cheaper to maintain. There is no expensive failures, only clutch and flywheel.
i actually found this review interesting as i have been very very skeptical for some time now that neither an Audi or VW car can produce any claim in the real world. the TT-RS claims 0-100 in 4.6 seconds however i still havent seen anyone crack any better than 0-100 in 5.2 seconds which is way off the claim but again not surprising.
you'd have though for fairness they'd both be 2 door, 4 doors gonna flex a bit more also which will absorb some power, he's driving a a right shitty damp serface also, I bet vw's times were on a nice flat surface in the dry, and as he says when they are run in it maybe better. About the price if you are gonna spend the best part of 30K on a motor, you'd not quibble pver 1300 quid.
Perhaps if he had turned the A/C off in the manual car his run would have been a bit faster. I have a manual Golf R and I love it. Even if we had been offered the DSG in the US I would still have opted for the manual. The ONLY automatic I've owned is the 2012 F150 I use to tow my race cars. A DSG may be faster but a manual is more fun and keeps my connected with the car and the road. Keep your DSG for the 1/4 mile and I'll keep my manual for the track.
nope. he didn't shift at all. he thought he shifted into "S" mode where the transmission automatically shifts when it reaches 6.5k RPM, but instead, he shifted to tiptronic mode where you have to shift manually, but to prevent the driver hurting the engine it'll still shifts automatically at 7k RPM.
A pretty ridiculous argument. The manual is always more fun "except" in traffic where it is miserable. Paddle shifting is better in every way it sounds but kind of boring over time. Even in a Porsche GT3 (which only comes in auto/PDK) it gets a little boring after awhile where a manual on a twisty/curvy road is woohoo. Ask the Miata people about buying an automatic roadster. Answer is always the same -- don't do it, don't do it because it will ruin everything Miata people like about their nimble little cars, and they are so right. I am actually struggling with this one a lot with this car. I see the Golf R as the love child of a Porsche Cayman and Prius (fun yet practical with a hatch). I want the manual, but for daily driving the DSG sounds like the wiser smarter choice so I guess I'll have to -- Oh screw it, I'm getting a manual I don't care.
@Playa1sweet Half a seccond is quiete a big difference mate. DSG's are also a lot of fun in different ways, sad thing is they are better than the old manual now.
@electricfeel2012 nope the weight gain is not significant at all, it adds 500lb max, the reason why the dsg is always quicker is because it has no other variables while the manual has so many things you have to pay attention to, race a dsg gti, and a manual gti and dsg just puts it down better..
You know the DSG has a manual mode right? The DSG shifts faster than the manual. A DSG still beats the manual on a track if the drivers are equivalent.
That's just how I feel! It's sad that manuel gear boxes are being replaced by DSG's and automatics, an automatic will Never be as fun as a good old manuel..in my opinion.
Actually, I find manual transmissions are very good for racing simulation games. I do agree that a manual can be more interactive than a DSG. Not hating on manuals at all. I do like semi-autmatics though.
road isn't dry, AC is on...very scientific.
+ driver is overweight
Wet road - aircon - ESP light coming on during each run
Rubbish test and not accurate at all.
I guess that makes it a little more realistic for everyday driving 😂
Driving the DSG is like necking while driving the manual is like doing it. Even though it takes more effort, I choose the latter.
I owned a Sportwagon diesel ( un fortunately a cheater). The low end torque was excellent and I got 42 mpg on highway travel. My DSG was sweet and smooth. Yes a clutch car is much better than an automatic with a torque; the DSG has 2 clutches and the computer shifts faster and better shift points than any human. Your manual is slower and gets worse gas mileage. Your stick lever in your right hand and left foot on clutch pedal makes your car slower. The pleasure is nostalgia.
DSG is quite simply the future of transmissions for combustion engines. I have one in my golf, albeit its only a 2 litre tdi but it goes like a train. To really experience a manual transmission and actually have fun while using it, you need road with no speed limits and no law trying to chase you, like a race track, but commuting from city to city in stop start traffic with speed limits of up to 60 MPH? Id much rather favour comfort.
Have you ever serviced a DSG ? every 20k miles it needs to be done, look it up then compare it to how to service a manual. Automatic is the way of the future, DSG is just a novelty ..
Does anyone else notice that at 3:04 he is in (+ -) Tiptronic mode? He's not in Sport. He just pushed the lever left of D. Confirmed by the fact that he doesn't push the button to pull it back to S. Am I the only one driving a VW DSG here?
Yep.. but it will still change up at the redline like s mode would. So im not too worried
Sport doesn't shift at redline.Sport mode learns when you want to shift by the way you drive. You're supposed to use the paddles until it adapts.
i'm but in diesel 😁😁
The stability control was defeated last year and the instructions are widely available on the internet. I had it done on my car at a very reputable shop for $50 and am thrilled with the results.
@msbladeliger
D is drive mode and S is "sport" mode. In sport mode, the car changes gears at higher revs for better performance. The + and - is manual mode where you can choose to shift gears yourself. If you push it towards the + you upshift and it you push down to the -, you downshift.
Had a DSG in a '13 Passat TDI and loved it. Sold the car to restructure some things because my youngest is going to college soon. I would like to have another Passat TDI/DSG when the time is more right. Best transmission I've ever seen and driving semi trucks for a living and owning all sorts of auto's I have seen about all circumstances regarding transmissions.
So here we are, 9 years later. Did you get back into a TDI DSG?
All DSG gearboxes have a "lull zone" when you try to go slowly. In a manual transmission car, you can feather the throttle and clutch to crawl along slowly (like an automatic transmission's torque converter). A DSG needs to be either in or out of gear, requiring you to give it enough throttle to engage 1st gear. When parking or in traffic, the car will either sit still or lurch forward before you slam on the brakes to avoid the obstacle ahead. Even the 2013 Porsche PDK has the same problem.
At manual start, he would keep the revs at about 4k, but it drops massively when he releases thee clutch. You can listen to how much more revs of the line are stable on the DSG run
Unless you go for a big turbo setup you should go for a DSG, mine is a 7 speed one and i was initially concerned about it's operation, but it works perfectly and also did a remap, and the result is even greater
I think a lot of people missed the point of this test. It's more about consistency than which is faster. He is just showing how the DSG will do it anywhere at any time consistently where as the manual relies on the driver to be perfect, which obv some people will want, others will prefer the reliability of the DSG... Sutcliffe is awesome
I would love to drive a DSG, but I would not want to own one in the long run..... that half second you gain with the DSG during the 0-60, you will loose the time (and money) at the repair shop in the long run.... me, I am buying a MANUAL
A DSG is a manual transmission inside, only difference is it shifts for you. Volkswagen has been making those transmissions since the early 90's in very high priced cars like the Bugatti and Lamborghini. Their first production car they put it in was in 2001.
So they have had a lot of time to perfect their DSG, and as someone who works on transmissions for a living, I can say I have never seen one come in the shop for anything other than an oil change.
ImyurZero
Hi buddy, unfortunately I have two friends who will disagree with you... the Mechatronics Units failed on their asses (OK, the cars had just over 100,000 km each on their MKV GTIs)
I am well aware how a Dual-Clutch Synchromesh Gearbox works (DCT, DSG, 7G-Tronic, PDK, etc, etc)
I don't doubt the robustness of the synchromesh and clutch and gear bits on a DSG.... its the Mechatronics unit, that I don't trust. Unfortunately I live outside Europe and getting the right grade transmission fluid can be a bit of an issue here. It seems these double-clutch gearboxes don't like any moisture with their transmission fluids, which a manual can tolerate with ease. DSG gearboxes don't seem to like hot and humid climates (maybe why European cars are less affected, colder less humid climates)
There has also recalls in Australia and China on both the 7-speed DQ200 and 6-speed DQ250 gearboxes....
this is just one link:
www.theaustralian.com.au/executive-living/motoring/volkswagen-in-damage-limitation-mode-after-recalls/story-fngmee2f-1226664115767?nk=17126518d22077b1c97dae1e704ba69e
JimB
JimB Old thread I know, but I think alot comes down to driving location (urban vs rural/semi-rural) and servicing. Most DSG units say oil change each 40k miles, but think what a massive difference their is if you do 40k driving in a city vs rural. You could easily have 10 times the number of gear changes during that 40k which is why I would never buy a DSG car with over 20k on the clock and would do the oil change straight away.
The DSG oil change should be done on a certain number of gear changes and not on a number picked out of the air to suit servicing intervals. This should be easy to implement but manufacturers don't seem to want to do this sadly.
Alex Graham I don't think that true really, I bought mine at 32k and did the DSG change right away. It had never been serviced, and the fluid actually looked pretty good. It was a bit darker than new but it was thick and looked really good.
I think the company that makes the trans knows it best, and I trust when they say 40k is good.
My stock 2003 24V VR6 GTI can hit 60 MPH in 6.5 seconds. I raced a manual Golf R today (VW exec's car here in the midwest), and we were neck and neck from a standstill all the way up to, and at, 60, 70, and 80 MPH!
On manual Gold R the driver keeps AC at fullblast of lowsetting... which means workload for it.
Just pointing it out. It takes littlebit power to keep the ac running.
@dalquist Good drivers don't need to worry about safety features. All that matters is the driving experience.
@MrBabirusa isn't only a semi auto gearbox, I think you can change it yourself, like you just give it a wee push forward to change up and pull it back to change down.
I drive a DSG MK6GTI and I have to say, for a car that doesn't have tons of horsepower like this it's pretty rewarding if you have that perfect shifting gearbox that helps you catch up other cars in its class, but for cars like EVO and STI and I would definitely go with Manuel
@msbladeliger In S mode you don't have the option to shift gears yourself. The paddle shifters work the same as the + - on the shifter. I have a regular Passat B6 so I don't have paddle shifters but I've driven cars that have that and I think you have to move the shifter over to the + - in order to be able to use the paddle shifters. And yea it is weird to have both + - and paddle shifts but I guess they give you the option of using either method to shift gears manually. Hope that makes sense.
@cody227 yes and by only 30kg but the dsg adds 20kg so the manual is only 10kg heavier as long as they both the same spec interior.
It doesn't matter that he was driving the stick leisurely compared to flooring the DSG. People don't buy VWs for 0-60 (or quarter mile) straight line performance, they buy them for the suspension, handling, and efficiency. I would rather know which transmissions gets there faster when traveling a curved line. One thing the author didn't mention is DSG has a $600-700 maintenance charge every 40K miles.
I used to be one of those people that dislike the DSG transmission until I really tested one and I got enlighten, the idea here is control over the gear changes, and DSG gives you that control at the blink of an eye. I live in U.S. but I think getting a Golf R over my current R32 MkV is out of the question, the only thing I like about the new R is the improvements in the suspension and the looks of the new body, other than that there's no justification, performance numbers are disappointing.
Manual is more fun! DSG is the faster and comfortable but manual is more fun and authentic.
Having owned three GTIs all with DSG I often come in for a bit of flack from the manual boys. I have no problem with you preferring a manual. Be greatful that VW still offers you the choice. What I do disagree with is that you negatively commenting on something you have either never experienced and or lived with or have only driven around the block. Perhaps the answer is to have one of each in the garage?
Brilliant review, nothing too classy or something, just brilliant :)
Keep 'em coming
I have never been interested in Automatic gearboxes. In 2005 I got a Polo and specified a manual gearbox with a diesel engine. In about 2007 a friend of mine got a Golf with DSG and went on and on about how good it was. I keep saying "Nah" until he told me to have a go in it. I was amazed at how good the DSG was. Myself and my other half are expecting a little one in January so I got a Skoda Octavia VRS TDi for use as a family car, with a DSG gearbox. The DSG is cleaner and more economical 10/10
It makes sense to get a turbo car with a dsg, the revs stay high when you shift so the turbo pressure should stay constant, it'll always be faster
I have a Golf Mk5 1.9TDI with the manual gearbox, mapped to 150bhp and 265lb ft torque. As I'm getting another Golf Mk5 next (either the 2.0TDI, GTI or the 1.4TSI 170), I test drove a 1.4 TSI 170 with the DSG box. I've always said "Manuals are better", blah blah - but honestly, I found the DSG brilliant. It was a great gearbox, responded well, smooth, plus with the paddles on the wheel it's as much of a manual as anything else. Blips beautifully on downchanges too..
Well looks like this will be the first and last Autocar video I watch.
Any "auto" enthusiast who chooses an automatic over a manual is simply killing true driving passion. So bravo autocar, can't wait until you're all out of jobs when you support autonomous cars also.
This seems to be an emissions mandate in 13 states (CA and the east coast) and will most likely be expanded to the rest of the US soon. ALL car manufacturers must meet this mandate. The 2.0T is affected particularly because of the way a turbo works - it's not instant on, instant off. When you depress the clutch, you disengage the engine from the transmission and you're coasting. While it may be annoying, it's very rarely dangerous. It's software, not the engine itself, so look for a fix soon.
what about the driving experience?
in my oppinion, manual gearbox will always be my favourite, and it's cheaper. It gives so much to the driving experience, even if it means it's slower a little.
you should have waitid until it dries up a little, maybe you would have a better result
I love the Manual, but i just got a new GLI with DSG the transmission it is flawless. I love how fast and smooth it shifts!
You should compare the reliability between DSG and conventional 6 speed manual gearbox
I was apprehensive about DSG at first, but the proof is in the pudding! After driving one, it's an incredible difference.
Yes, I've even driven them on a track when I've instructed students with GTIs w/DSGs. Technically, it's more accurate to say the DSG has an automatic mode since it's a "dual clutch" transmission. It shifts faster, but in tight corners your hands are not in the correct position to "shift" on the wheel. I race a vintage 911 and prefer a manual transmission because of the feedback I get from the car and the road. Plus, you can't use a phone, eat, drink, read, shave, etc. only DRIVE!!!
thing is.........the next gears already selected with dsg so of course youre saving time during a change. i dont see what weve learnt here and dsg didnt suddenly come along when the R was launched.
@cody227 Jusst making a comment not trying to be rude but it's not really heavier in my opinion because it's just the doors. the 2 door has the back seats and every other thing that the 4 ddoor has please correct me if you know of anything else that makes it heavier.
I disagree that the DSG is necessarily 'better'. I have the 2010 GTI 6 spd manual. I have drive manual since my second car and love it. Even if the car doesn't actually get 0-60 faster on Manual vs DSG/Auto, it still feels faster and is more fun. In addition, you gain more control over the car, esp. in winter conditions.
In the end, it's what the individual driver wishes to have.
@joetol Yes, it does have a noise pipe to increase the noise inside the cabin
completely agree...and the extra 2 doors on the manual make a difference too
i think whats more amazing is not so much of which is faster or better, but the fact that the DSG maintains the same time for all 3 runs.
on a personal note.. i definitely prefer a conventional manual still.
I'm not saying my way is the only way. It's just that every generation has people who cling to a past principle like the manual car. Not hating on manuals because I have driven them a few time.
What I do admire about manual enthusiasts is that they know how to preserve the culture of manual transmissions. I do not want to see manual cars go away but I do appreciate how automated technology can make life easier so to say.
It all comes down to preferences. I can't change people. Only myself.
I wonder if the DSG offers the same improvement with a non-turbo engine?
Everyone comments on how fast the up changes are in a dsg gear box. But no one talks about about how slow the down shifts are. I will give you an example. You come into a 2nd gear cnr, in a manual you hard on the brakes 4 Th to 3 rd and then 2nd, using the clutch to match the engine speed. As for the Dsg, 4th to 3rd computer thinks about it for a while until it thinks the engine speed is ok. 3rd to 2nd the same again. As a golf r owner, who has driven both transmissions, I would never go a dsg
I Have driven a Golf GTI Edition 35 yesterday and normaly I am a fan of manual gearboxes but the 6 speed DSG in GTI changed my mind, I love it. The Audi A5 7 Speed gearbox was not that good in this car I would prefer a maual gearbox
@electricfeel2012 But those cars aren't Soley weight loss it's also increased performance with hp and tq as well as handling spoilers, springs shocks, stickier tires and last but not least more aggressive transmission settings, put a dsg 2 door vs dsg 4 door, the difference is barely .1 seconds, before getting my gti I drove a 4 door gti and 2 door gti with dsg the only time you know you have two doors is when you look back..
I feel sad that there are so few reviews of this car. And in addition to that you find this. Now a days I really don't care if the DSG in S mode will be faster. Is it something you would use in an everyday basis? If not I would rather listen to the experience of driving both cars. With fun and sillyness many times it is easier to get those feelings from Top Gear. I am waiting for them to test this vehicle. So far I want a 5-door manual in the US. To upgrade it from my DSG GTI.
@xXAnchormonXx i dont know what the exact wieght gain for the extra 2 doors is but it does make a difference, why do u think the ferra scuderia and the lambo superleggera (sorry if i mispelled anything) were made? these 2 cars are identical to the regular model expect a couple hundred punds have been shaved off i belive the lambo only shaves off about 300 or 400 punds so, why would they try so hard for something that doesn matter? that amount of weight can make a huge difference in a race
i did read somewhere that the 4 door uses 6.2 on manual
off course meaning Volkswagen golf r 2010
As much as I love manuals i think the DSG is hard to ignore if you were to pick between the two!
@VanTheManSLB of course, mtm abt and recently revo has separate files for dsg equipped cars.
@kenmastersmaster lol..... so what do you think the STi and Evo are? They're basically cheap econoboxes with AWD and a turbo. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
My 27 year old Impreza Turbo 2000 manual does it in 5.6seconds. Have we really come that far?
When u did the runs in the dsg did you have it in sport or normal drive with the paddles?
@gators12707 Not true. The Golf R is based off of the Golf body style of course. Well the 2 Door has the same size and weight front doors as a four door does.
the only reason the DSG was faster is that it launched better because it did an automatic launch. you can actually launch better in a manual, just get revs a little higher and let the clutch come hard.. not full on, but pretty hard, and the AWD will grip. steve shifts well but the launch wasnt really good. maybe he just didnt want to ruin the test car's clutch and transmission ;)
try taking off while on the clutch instead of the handbrake, slightly faster off the line then
I noticed he actually put the gear into manual mode and not sport. Obviously he knows that the computer system will automatically shift it anyway to prevent engine damage.
how great do they look! DSG for me. blue or red thou
@knonow you said the dsg is better, but it can not take as much power as a built manual transmission. Manual is not dead because dual clutch gear boxes and automatic manuals can not take as much power as a good old fashioned manual transition.( well they can but it costs ALLOT more to build, and a dsg cant be built by some guy in his garage)
He did the manual run with a full tank of gas, with the AC on, and with 19s that weigh 30lbs each.
@bobrec3GTI A 5 door version of the same car will always be heavier than a 3 door version and indeed less torsionally rigid = less well handling than the 3 door
That's a big difference. Driver mod?
Also, the dsg changed gears at 7000 while he did at 6500 when he changed the gears
I'm wondering how much you actually know about cars. You can shift gears using the shifter as well which puts your hands in the same as using a manual. Also just because its a dual clutch doesn't make an auto or manual. It's an automatic transmission with a manual mode because it's an automatic by default. You have to put it into manual mode. BTW automatic transmissions have a clutch too. You just don't control it with a pedal like a manual. It uses fluid and a computer to operate the clutch.
cars a/c is on that will lower the usable hp tho.. and wet floor that would reduce the tires grip because of temperature of tires and also its wet more slippery ground, more skid = slower you accelerate
@cody227
yeah thats quite right. i dodnt know if its that heavier but it definitely is.
I have never really understood what the big deal is with 0-60 times. So what the DSG is a little faster, these cars are about handling and fun, not 0-60 times. Pick which is more fun and go with it. (6-speed)
@TheJeddyB
you took the words right outta my mouth. its not about how fast it is, or economical, or better or whatever... its about pure driving pleasure and lets face it, if you know how to drive a manual, and i mean REALY know how to drive a manual, only then can you understand what we're on about...
Nice video. I would typically opt for a manual but since the DSG is as good as it is I think it's the better choice if you don't mind driving without a clutch.
@lordoftheriffs79 Speaking of a reamp, the 7 speed already has remap options? The 6 speed has some options but i've never seen anything to the last one one, the dry DSG...
obviously personal preference plays a role in what kind of car you want to drive, and you have to take into account that preferences are entirely subjective. driving a manual is loads of fun, feeling that extra bit of connection to the car, but I love my DSG all the same. it keeps the revs high and changes gears at inhuman speeds. a far cry from a regular automatic slushbox, since it's essentially two manuals mated together with a pneumatic clutch...
Best Motoring has already tested this with the GTi, it doesn't have much to do with 4 doors v.s 2 doors. Even a pro racing driver can't beat the shifting of the DSG box. It's simply too fast and efficient. Even if you're a superhuman you can't shift in 8ms. It can upshift 2 gears but your foot even touches the clutch.
Really not saying automatics are the end of the world, but they take away some of the enjoyment that you get when drive a car. HOWEVER some cars just don't suit well with manual, Nissan GT-R for example, one of the primary features that make it outstanding is its dual-clutch gearbox. However when you are shopping for a car that you can have fun with on the back roads, like 1 series BMW or something similiar (Toyota GT86), you should go with the manual, as you won't be posting lap times anyway.
@DefenderTDBlack thanks for the useful comment mate :) didn't think of that :D
Why is he pulling the handbrak? I didn't get that. On a even road you can rev the car while pressing the clutch without roling...
Does this mean that the manual gearbox is finished?
Maybe if you didn't have the A/C on, the manual would be quicker?
Sure, if you're talking lap times i'd take the DSG everyday. But I would buy a GTi purely for the fun of the drive - which in my long experience of driving both DSG and manuals, belongs firmly and forever in the manual camp. There's no replacement for heal and toeing and a perfect gear change :)
Of course, if your only bothered with the school run or going down the gym, then get the DSG.
@Cariggs You're right! The A/C is on! lol However, I'm not sure the moist road does much here.
@jonray74 If it's anything like my car, the A/C compressor is automatically disconnected temporarily at full throttle and thereabouts.
I tried GTI with DSG and manual.. .and I choose manual, because I can feel car better, it's more engaging and not so slower if you have good practice and know how to use stick... Also manual car is lighter and has better handling, because you have 35kg less in the nose. Much better choice for track is manual. Also manual is signifficantly cheaper to maintain. There is no expensive failures, only clutch and flywheel.
i actually found this review interesting as i have been very very skeptical for some time now that neither an Audi or VW car can produce any claim in the real world. the TT-RS claims 0-100 in 4.6 seconds however i still havent seen anyone crack any better than 0-100 in 5.2 seconds which is way off the claim but again not surprising.
the cars seem different to me, the red manual is four door, 19ich alloys the blue DSG is three door with 18inch wheels ??
you'd have though for fairness they'd both be 2 door, 4 doors gonna flex a bit more also which will absorb some power, he's driving a a right shitty damp serface also, I bet vw's times were on a nice flat surface in the dry, and as he says when they are run in it maybe better. About the price if you are gonna spend the best part of 30K on a motor, you'd not quibble pver 1300 quid.
Perhaps if he had turned the A/C off in the manual car his run would have been a bit faster. I have a manual Golf R and I love it. Even if we had been offered the DSG in the US I would still have opted for the manual. The ONLY automatic I've owned is the 2012 F150 I use to tow my race cars. A DSG may be faster but a manual is more fun and keeps my connected with the car and the road. Keep your DSG for the 1/4 mile and I'll keep my manual for the track.
@murdocsader it's front wheel drive, but i agree there are time when you want no lift shift
maybe turning the A/C off would allow another .1 sec or so? on 4-bangers, in my experience, that sucks a bit of power.
You hear the car bog a bit off the line each time with the manual. The DSG keeps the revs higher.
@droopy1592 i think there is a slight slippage on the front wheel after just after launch
u gotta chirp the tires on launch to really get it as fast as itl launch. More slippage is what it takes.
Which is more fun to drive?
the 2009-present Volkswagen Golf is assembled in
Wolfsburg, Germany
Changchun, China
Jakarta, Indonesia
Pekan, Malaysia
Solomonovo, Ukraine
nope. he didn't shift at all. he thought he shifted into "S" mode where the transmission automatically shifts when it reaches 6.5k RPM, but instead, he shifted to tiptronic mode where you have to shift manually, but to prevent the driver hurting the engine it'll still shifts automatically at 7k RPM.
A pretty ridiculous argument. The manual is always more fun "except" in traffic where it is miserable. Paddle shifting is better in every way it sounds but kind of boring over time. Even in a Porsche GT3 (which only comes in auto/PDK) it gets a little boring after awhile where a manual on a twisty/curvy road is woohoo.
Ask the Miata people about buying an automatic roadster. Answer is always the same -- don't do it, don't do it because it will ruin everything Miata people like about their nimble little cars, and they are so right.
I am actually struggling with this one a lot with this car. I see the Golf R as the love child of a Porsche Cayman and Prius (fun yet practical with a hatch). I want the manual, but for daily driving the DSG sounds like the wiser smarter choice so I guess I'll have to -- Oh screw it, I'm getting a manual I don't care.
@Playa1sweet Half a seccond is quiete a big difference mate. DSG's are also a lot of fun in different ways, sad thing is they are better than the old manual now.
@electricfeel2012 nope the weight gain is not significant at all, it adds 500lb max, the reason why the dsg is always quicker is because it has no other variables while the manual has so many things you have to pay attention to, race a dsg gti, and a manual gti and dsg just puts it down better..
You know the DSG has a manual mode right? The DSG shifts faster than the manual. A DSG still beats the manual on a track if the drivers are equivalent.
That's just how I feel! It's sad that manuel gear boxes are being replaced by DSG's and automatics, an automatic will Never be as fun as a good old manuel..in my opinion.
Actually, I find manual transmissions are very good for racing simulation games. I do agree that a manual can be more interactive than a DSG. Not hating on manuals at all. I do like semi-autmatics though.