Talking hip hop's legacy with a REAL old head
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2023
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"What happens to your culture when it becomes part of America's cultural store?"
You end up with a Landlord Mike. I mean Killer Mike.
Shots fired.
Landlord mike 😂
Is Killer Mike not respected in hip hop anymore? Is there something I’m missing?
@@mraaronhd Fiq mad a video about it on his B-Sides if I'm not mistaken. But aside from telling people to become landlords he's come out in support of cop city in Atlanta.
I love when old heads talk about hip hop in a non toxic way. My preferences for hip hop range from the early 90s to present day so the 80s are a bit of a gap in my music knowledge so it’s cool hearing people talk about it fondly. Always remember kids, embrace the future but respect the classics
Born in '82, got into HipHop very very young. The late '80s thru to the late '90s were a musical heaven... The 2000s were SUCH a huge disappointment that I used to be one of these "old heads" who hated on it bad, but more and more, begin with in the early 2010s, the good stuff starting coming back.
(I've got great stuff in my playlists ranging from the '80s to now.)
@@Jimmy1982Playlists I was born in 97 but didn’t really start activity listening to hip hop until around 2009ish. I have done a lot of listening since then but my cutoff has kinda been in the 90s. I think the only 80s album I thoroughly listened to Straight Outta Compton. There’s absolutely no reason I haven’t listened to 80s classics but I should definitely make an effort to. Any recommendations?
@@tonydigital808 not the person you were talking to but you should if you haven't already learn the history of rap in the 80s since it's a very important decade in terms of evolution of the genre- lyrics ,flow, beats, sub genres, artists.
Embrace the future and respect the classics...very well said!
Exactly ❤❤❤
You have helped me so much to not become a bitter, man-hating asshole. There are days where the only way I know there are conscious men out there is tuning in to you and Eliot Sang. Y'all give me hope for the world, and, even though I'm not your "target" audience, I want you to know you have helped me out of some really dark experiences and I appreciate you so much.
The Coup, Public Enemy, Dead Prez, Black Star, Rage Against the Machine, Immortal Technique…pretty much my high school car CD collection.
I turned 28 this year and I can feel my grasp on the genre slipping lol. I don't hate, I knew this day was coming, but it is crazy to me that a few years ago I was so locked in on releases, tapes, and singles, and now I only check for a handful of artists.
man i’m 31, and same. i can’t believe how in tune i used to be with all the new artists and releases n such. i used to download all the xxl freshmen’s mixtapes and give em a listen. i simply don’t have the time, energy, or desire anymore. if i hear somethin i like, i’ll check it out, but music in general doesn’t have a fraction of the energy it used to get from me
I heard Jay Z one time say that you can't check everybody. Nowadays people check an album 1 week then move on to the next, heck sometimes days. I have some artists I still follow but even Nas (the GOAT), I listen to more KD2 than the others from his latest run, with IRL stuff you don't have time for everybody.
Lol maybe this doesn't apply to me cause of my background, I'm south African, even if hip hop is what I grew up on, but my 18th year i was already branching out and being more interested in other genre's besides hip hop and now i rely on my younger brother to tune me in on what hot, I only even knew about lil baby last year and I'm 22
@@7Bobby7 oh don't get me wrong I listen to other shit besides hip hop, I'd lose my mind if i didn't lmao.
I don’t think it’s as much about your age that made your grip slip as much as it’s about how immersive and gripping the culture is
I'm an old head who became a pan africanist in college. Listening to P.E, BDP, X-clan, Poor Righteous Teachers, early Ice Cube and a few others I witnessed the positive effects the music was creating in the Black community. College admissions were rising fast as well as political engagement. The diversity of hip hop was fostering creativity and consciousness that was threatening the establishment. Enter 2 Live Crew and booty music. That was the beginning of the end. White supremacy found it's magic bullet and flooded the airwaves from coast to coast with southern rap. It wasn't accidental that southern music dominated the airwaves for over a decade. Hop hop has been weaponized against the Black community and the gate keepers either sold out or were marginalized into obscurity.
As an old head the new generation of hip hop magnifies the cultures failings with laser focus. Makes it hard to listen to and not be disappointed.
I couldn't find the words. Thanks for this. Sista Souljah, early Nas...music that taught kids about their real history and gave us a peek behind the curtain. Next thing you know, women became b*tchs and h*es. All the men became thugs and criminals who exploit women. The music lost its educational edge.
well said
1000%
The whole PE, Tribe, BDP, X Clan era was truly the Golden era.
For me NWA was the beginning of the end....
I noticed you just skipped "west coast/gangsta rap" and went straight to "southern rap" as to blame. Remember Common's "I used to love her"?
There’s way more diversity now then ever tho. And I remember people calling the emergence of Southern rap the death of Hip Hip 20 years ago.
Definitely wanna hear F.D.’s full take on the switch from Rock to Hip-Hop. There’s a lot to talk about there. Including the new wave of Rock/Hip-Hop/R&B with newer black artists like Yves Tumor, Paris Texas, and Fousheé.
yes! I'd also love to hear FD's take on the parallels between punk/ hardcore and hip hop. I've always saw them both as politically, socially and economically cohesive. Think KRS-One and Sick of It All doing collaborations. Their beginnings occur roughly in the same area and time and both pulled from similar influences, think Queen Latifah and Operation Ivy pulling from Desmond Dekker's UNITY.
@@thedriskillarchive They used to be very overlapped scenes. The first white fans of hip hop in NYC were punks, and the hardcore scene has always had plenty of Black fans in many cities. They came from similar communities and shared many similar experiences and drives at one point. I think most of my favorite NYHC bands through the years had hip hop side projects, and many of the bands themselves were largely Black and Hispanic (Cuban, Dominican, Puerto Rican, etc).
I'd love to see FD talk about that, too, though it might be a bit out of his wheelhouse. Hardcore was always its own, often hostile, scene, and doesn't traditionally have a lot of overlap with metal until comparatively recently. I know FD has mentioned enjoying metal before, so his time might've been before those scenes mixed much.
Hip hop needs punk right now, particularly the unapologetic, unpolished raw guitar. The rebelliousness. A lot of the stuff now sounds like r and b did in the 80s, oversynthesized overproduced fakebess before the raw guitars and drums of sampled hip hop punched through and made every other form follow. He's right about the flow and cadences being better now though.
@@arthurswanson3285 That sounds like an amazing combo IMO. That raw guitar that feels like a punch, the unapologetic attitude, but the lyrical skill of hip hop? Especially if it's mixed in with some of that social commentary and rebelliousness the best examples of both styles are known for? I could listen to something like that all day.
@@arthurswanson3285 Oh, shit! I just remembered a band that actually kind of combines those two things exactly. They're UK based, but mix British grime (so not as refined as most American hip hop) and the punk rebelliousness and aggression well IMO. They're called Bob Vylain, and I actually enjoy them a lot. They remind me of Atari Teenage Riot a bit, but with more hip hop vibes.
That's definitely a mix I'd like to hear more often, though. There are a million different ways it could sound, and all could be great.
Thank you FD for bringing on an actual "Hip-hop Historian", it really makes these vids so much better.
Renee by Lost Boyz is like watching a movie. It's such a powerful song.
Song is goated
Classic. Def holds a place in my youth.
You would like Lady London. She's got a song called Lisa's Story that's just amazing to listen to.
I still listen to it, 20+ years, still one of the best tracks from the golden era
BIG K.R.I.T HAS THE WORD BIG IN HIS NAME AND HE IS A LEGEND!!! For me he’s the greatest to come out of the south in the modern era
I'm such an old head. Grew up in Brooklyn on KRS One, Nas, Parliament, etc. I remember djs calling rap a fad. We were so proud of our culture being seen. Movies about graph and breakin were out. It's so funny, Dr. Ball is right, we thought we had made it. We didn't understand the machine and how it would feed on the culture. Sadly, the music used to be educational. As that girl in Brooklyn, I learned a great deal ab American history from BDP, and feminism from Sista Soulja. That is almost non-existent in rap music now.
Thank you so much for this, I’m 21, and I would really appreciate your answer to this question if you have the time. Growing up in iowa with parents who grew up on a similar sound. My dad a big KRS One fan, my mom big into Lauryn Hill, I didn’t start even listening to my own generation of hip hop until recently. And Although I enjoy it at times, I see the gap and that lack of education. But for someone to come out now, that has THAT authenticity of older less commoditized Hip-Hop, would the answer be successful through other avenues of revenue and then fund their music so they don’t have to worry about the machine?? Would that fix Hip Hops problem?? Should inspired youths of the culture work to work on the craft of rap while hustling in some other form? Would that beat the machine?
I ask because that radical educational Hip-Hop feels like it’s apart of me and seeing what’s happening inspires me even more to want to make music that try and preserve it, but I don’t see a way of doing that inside of music it seems i need to go outside of the culture to try and save it.
I don't know how I missed a post mentioning both Parliament and KRS One, but randomly bumping into it a month later made my whole morning. I love KRS One, but Parliament was just on a whole different level. I don't sing or play bass, but George and Bootsy were still always big personal inspirations to me. Both groups were just cut from a different cloth IMO, one I'm not sure even exists anymore.
Boots Riley/The Coup will always be my favorite of the "oldhead" rap artists. RIP Pam.
Anyone who has never see the video for The Guillotine by the Coup should go check it out. It shows that Boots had that cinematic fantastical anti capitalist visions in his mind long before he ever got to shoot a film or show.
I mean a decade before The Guillotine, they released an album called Kill My Landlord. I don't think it was a secret before The Guillotine came out.
@@totlyepic I don't think they were saying those ideas first showed up in that video, just that it was the first time Boots obviously demonstrated a cinematic vision.
Thank you for the suggestion! Right before I’m about to start I’m A Virgo.
Me and Jesus the Pimp in a '79 Granada Last Night (by the Coup) is, to me, the best story rap of all time. It touches on so many different things while also being a compelling, heartbreaking story.
I love their music, hate their horrible politics.
There's a debate on YT where they engage in almost every Leninist/Maoist lie, atrocity apologetic, historical revision, boot lick, strawman, etc, it was a real "never meet your heros" situation only I didn't meet em, I just heard what they actually believe and it was pretty bad 😭
Buddy is an authoritarian's authoritarian fr 🤦🏽♂️
They use mad radical language and sound like they're all about liberation, people power, autonomy, etc, but they seem mad brainwashed.
Pretty typical of Leninists though. They love sounding radical and using anarchist/libertarian socialist slogans and all that while actually holding VERY different ideas. Lenin did it, Mao did it, most did and it worked.
Black Guitarist rarely get mentioned, if at all, in discussions when considering the greats.. besides Hendrix..
But, listen to Eddie Hazel (RIP) on Maggot Brain, absolutely insane how phenomenal he is.
Or Ernie Isley? Albert Collins? Eric Gales? Muddy Waters? John Lee Hooker?
It’s sad these legendary musicians don’t truly get any recognition- when they’re deserving of much much more.
Phil Lynott too, RIP
Maggot Brain should be mandatory listening in schools imo, that record grabs hold of you in the first beat and never lets go
Eddie Hazel’s ‘Games, Dames, and Guitar Thangs’ is one of my favs.
I saw Eric Gales last year, and it has to be one of the top 5 musical performances I've ever seen. He had the audience eating out of the palm of his hand. His playing was out of this world. Great great player.
Nile Rodgers definitely belongs here. The man's a living legend.
From someone who grew up in between the tail end of Native Tongues/PE and the rise of Bling Era, a few new artists that I've been really diggin are Denzel Curry, noname, Rico Nasty and Kenny Mason
Ya, i started listening in the late '80s with PE, NWA, Native Tongues, etc... loved it til the late '90s. Hated on 99% of 2000s HipHop.
But I'm soooo thankful to say that "real" HipHop has made a return - almost all of it in the underground! Griselda Records, Backwoodz Studioz (in particular, billy woods & Elucid, both solo and together as "Armand Hammer"), TDE, Mach-Hommy, Tha God Fahim, Your Old Droog and many younger (but still in their 30s, early 40s) artists, to older OG artists who are making their best music in years (Nas, Method Man, Talib Kweli, etc).
I got into other genres in the 2000s, but Rock music is almost a desert in recent years, save for a handful of great, older bands. Just the catalogue from producers like DJ Muggs, Alchemist, Apollo Brown, in recent years has been amazing
The funny thing about cameo dissing early hip-hop on word up was that it was essentially a rap song and ofc how much hip-hop producers wound up sampling them.
Nice to hear about dead prez, as a new follower I wondered why never heard fd speak about them. I'm a white european rbg fan confirming the point about their audience.
What's rbg. Apologies if that's an obvious rap reference
@@TheNoviceOAO "revolutionary but gangsta "
@@ConcernedFernoh good I was worried Ruth Bader Ginsberg!
@@travismathis3279 had to search who it is but had a good laught
This is me revisiting Revolutionary But Gangsta Grillz, my intro to Dead Prez about 15 yrs ago.
I’m 20 and I live in St. Louis where I’ve been roller skating. Since I’ve started skating, I’ve gained a real appreciation for older Southern rap. It’s rap I’ve heard my dad play throughout my life but only recently have a grown my own relationship to it.
born in '76. i couldnt be MORE here for this.
#PeaceLoveAndKwame
Truth and Facts!!!
I just wanna say the GOAT NAS has been on an unprecedented run in MUSIC PERIOD the past three years. It’s like a breath of fresh air in a landscape polluted with trash raps. 🐐
KD2 The Pressure gets me so hyped up.
I agree that all the KD albums have been fire but wym trash raps? So much heat came out last year alone.
Younger millenial raised from old head music, I can understand how an older dude may not gravitate to a lot of the more mainstream rappers but there is some stronger talent that usually flies more behind the scene. Rap is more like punk these days tho soundwise where there's a large variety from bad bitch bops with sexy red to superweird alternative like jpegmafia
yea facts. Hip-hop has never been more diverse, there's literally everything for everyone. It blows my mind how people think the genre starts and stops with the mainstream shit.
@@ptyten9718 some people just love to hate
What's really funny about this comment is that the first white fans of hip hop were punks also in NYC. There was a lot of crossover in those old shows, and you could find hip hop fans at hardcore shows and see mohawks at old hip hop shows. They came from similar places and from similar communities for many years.
@@RevShifty🎯💯
@@ptyten9718 ABSOLUTELY! I'm glad my love for new HipHop returned in the mid 2010s... so grateful!
I used to hate from the early '00s on, but I tell my fellow "old heads" all the time what they're missing out on and they blow me off - just cause they like to hate and they don't know where to find the good stuff!
Cordae is actually refreshing. He's an ordinary kid rapping about ordinary stuff without the overly macho, violent or consumerist focus of many of his peers. Lost Boy was a nice Project
Rapsody Che Noir, Ka, Big Krit, Kool Keith,Navy Blue, Cyhi The Prynce, Curren$y, Roc Marci some of my favorites everything else is 90s, early 00’s, 60s, 70’s, 80’s. Also jazz fusion Casiopea, T Square, Jun Fukamachi, Hiromasa Suzuki
Born in '82, loved HipHop from '89 to very early '00s... used to be an old head hating on new HipHop, but that real energy has returned in recent years:
billy woods & Elucid (solo, and as "Armand Hammer") and billy's Backwoodz Studioz collaborators, like SKECH185 & Curly Castro; Griselda Records - Westside Gunn, Conway The Machine, Benny The Butcher, Rome Streetz, Stove God, Boldy James, Estee Nack, etc; Dump Gawds - Mach-Hommy, Tha God Fahim, Your Old Droog; Black Hippy - ScHoolboy Q, Kendrick, Ab-Soul, Jay Rock; Quelle Chris; Apollo Brown; DJ Muggs; Alchemist; Roc Marciano; Pusha-T; JID; Joey Bada$$; Meyhem Lauren; 38 Spesh; Eto; Crimeapple; Rim & Eddie Kaine; Nack & Al.Divino... I could go on & on. Best thing is most of these cats blew up in their 30s or 40s... this is grown man HipHop.
And OG artists from the '80s & '90s have been making their best music in years (Nas, Method Man, Inspectah Deck, PE, KRS-ONE, DJ Muggs and many more)...
Best thing to happen in recent years, no doubt - the return of constant great new HipHop! More and more since the early 2010s.
I have playlists on my channel containing new and golden era tracks, some of these lists going over a thousand tracks. There's no excuse to deny one self all this dope music if you claim to really love the culture.
LOVED this talk, FD... keep up the great work, as always!
hearing this conversation makes me think of the commodification of underground metal and punk
I'm almost FD's age and been an unabashed punk and hardcore kid since I was 12. I could still tell you the names of the black man and two white non racist skinheads who opened up that whole world for me at a really young age, almost totally at random.
Anyone who has been around a while and seen punk etc cycle into and back out of popular awareness can spot the commodified punk bands like they all had blinking neon signs over their heads. Or just realize that as soon as white kids in the suburbs know who they are, they're usually just a commodity selling an aesthetic and a super watered down, generic sense of 'rebellion'.
@@olg.__ You do know those are actual things that exist, right? That they're not even uncommon? Two of the oldest skinheads I personally know are both black, one shaved in in 1978 and the other '84. The oldest skinhead where I currently live is a black man. I've lived in cities where absolutely none of the skinheads were even white, but plenty were Hispanic or Asian, with a few Chamorros (indigenous ethnic group of Guam) thrown in for good measure.
Nazis get all the attention because they get the eyeballs and clicks and are good for stupid drama. But they have *never* been the majority of the scene, and I have decades of both third party sources and personal experience with this very subject to back that all up with.
@@RevShiftylost me at the non racist, white skinhheads? That’s a mouthful bro
@RevShifty I mean it's still an understandable reaction given the baggage and connotation that word carries today. I get where you're coming from tho
@@nolanl4196 Oh, no, for sure I get it. That word has gotten that reaction longer than I've been alive, and will probably still be getting it long after I'm dead. I realize that the finer points of punk subcultures aren't going to be for everyone, but that's why I wanted to be clear where I (and those I mentioned) were coming from in my original post.
Most skinheads are just in it for the music. And often the drinking and fighting that goes along with it. But the scene itself was almost 2 decades old before any nazi ever claimed the name, and they've never once been the actual majority. It's just that the nazis are always good for stupid drama and clicks, and that gives lots of people the wrong idea. There has been a skinhead scene in most large cities I've spent time in, and I don't think the majority of them are even white these days, let alone nazis.
Billy woods made me love rap again and I found so many amazing artists that made me love the art again.
They never mention artist like Billy Woods or Mach-Hommy but I'm loving modern hip hop as it thrives underground. Don't get why none of these platforms acknowledge artists like this. They rely too much on what the mainstream provides.
@@brvalentine1 🎯💯🙏 You both beat me to the comments you made... as an old(er) head like FD, who grew up on PE & NWA, and _HATED_ on HipHop in the 2000s and early 2010s, the underground is thriving more than any time since the Golden Era!
I keep telling other older cats, ignore the mainstream, there are tons of great artists making real HipHop, from more alternative, artsy stuff like billy woods & Elucid solo, and together (as "Armand Hammer") and billy's label, Backwoodz Studioz, to more grimey Mobb Deep/Wu inspired stuff like Griselda, Roc Marciano, Mach-Hommy, Fahim, Your Old Droog, etc.
Producers like DJ Muggs, Alchemist & Apollo Brown, alone, are making tons of classic material!
HEAR, HEAR!! billy is a genius - along with his partner-in-rhyme, Elucid... every "Armand Hammer" project is incredible.
The 2000s were so dire for HipHop that I never thought it'd be this vibrant again...
Backwoodz, Griselda, Black Hippy, Roc Marci, Pusha-T, JID, Mach-Hommy, Fahim, YOD, Quelle Chris, Pro Era/Joey B/STEEZ, Meyhem Lauren, 38 Spesh, Freddie Gibbs, and on and on... with OG artists from the '80s and '90s making their own best music in years (Nas, Method Man, KRS-ONE)... the best thing to happen in the 2010s was the return of great HipHop!
For anyone thinking there's no great HipHop these days, I've got playlists with thousands of videos!
@@brvalentine1FD called woods an Aesop rock/MF DOOM clone so yea that explains that. Mach-Hommy on the other hand he said was dope
Ka is in that space as well if u gonna mention Hommy
Not an old head but I haven’t really gravitated towards that many new artist. I keep finding bands and artists in other genres that I like a lot but I always found it difficult to do that with this current generation of Hip-Hop. Maybe I’m just looking at the artists from my childhood with rose tinted glasses.
If you're looking for lyricists the kids dont seem too interested in making that kinda music. "Underground" rap artists are mostly hyper-autotuned and pushing boundries on the instrumental side. It is what it is.
There’s so many lyricists still here like Cordae, Cole, Denzel Curry, Lil Simz, etc.
@@zvz5823I don’t think it’s fair to put the underground in one box. Yes, a lot of the underground is more or so hyperpop or hyper trap rap with autotune, but there are rappers who either are both lyricists and hyper trap rappers (Midwest) or there are rappers who can just spit (J.I.D)
I used to feel this way until I discovered a bunch of underground artists and realized what I was missing. Not saying you'd fw the same artists but I think there's a lot of dope hip hop out here.
@@zvz5823Earl Sweatshirt and Billy Woods (not to mention a few more) are better lyricists than most old school rappers lmao.
I’m only 28 but I’m creeping into the old head lane already. Not even a parent yet but I’m all about the “dad raps”.
daaaaaaamn an 8ball & mjg reference
"this endo got me pervin - lets go hop in my suburban"
As an official old head, who was an 80s teen/90s young adult, I really enjoyed this conversation!
Is so strange when people talk about the kind of Hip Hop they like in past tense when it’s being made in fresh ways in the present. Oddisee, Black Milk, Phonte, Rapsody, Black Thought, Homeboy Sandman etc etc are here and it’s not on some nostalgia kinda flow. Ah well…
I would love to hear an extended interview with Dr.Ball I loved this conversation
Sig, if you're listening to southern rap artists and NOT listening to one of the best ouchea doing it, in one named Big Krit, then you not doing yourself any service. I believe he is the last remaining " hip-hop 'Big' " and is a spitter to the highest degree. His last album 'Digital Roses Don't Die' even has some soulful, jazzy, and r&b inclinations that subvert that traditional hip-hop album sound that has become a bit more comfortable to hear on the more lyrically blessed rappers like Kendrick, Earl, and Nas.
Krit's a Mississippi dude who does all of the Southern styles justice, and if you haven't heard of him or forgot his presence, take a weekend or two to get into his material and thank me lata.
This came out right before my daughter was born. I still sing it to her. Probably won't stop
@@jebidiahcarlyon3543 its a nice album. Not every song hits for me every listen through, but it's Krit and I love his work!
Big Krit been a classic rapper for years.... all the way back to tracks like 'Something'
Fully co sign
Big KRIT is ridiculously underrated. What a talent
That last artist that I know of to have "Big" in their name is Big Krit. But he's from the 2013 era
@16:10 Would've been a perfect time to introduce Jared to Denzel Curry's two live projects he dropped in the last year, MMESYF Deluxe and the Electric Lady Sessions. Even has an excellent Erykah Badu cover!
OMG!! I cannot wait to hear your heavy metal and rock analysis!! Coming from a huge foo fighters fan, i can’t tell u how much i miss hearing rock on the radio 😢 with that said, when you do the video, can we avoid doing that thing people do where they pretend black people dont listen to, play, and love rock music. I already heard some hints of it when u mentioned hip hop being “ours”. Its all ours 🙌🏼 all the genres
I'm year older than F D. I haven't listened to the radio in years. I just turn on my music app and listen from 90s - 10s.
For all my oldheads trying to get that heritage flow with the newness, the alchemist is still making music and it is wonderful. Theres a track with a newer artist named MIKE off his new album that is great
There’s still Big Sean!
Also loving Larry June, and your old droog is perfect to analyze for your white rapper video. He came out in 2014 and is extremely prolific. There was a rumor when his music first emerged, that he was Nas rapping under a different name so he could put out more indie, underground stuff because their voices sound so similar
I loved hearing both of you guys talk about hip hop. It was really insightful and opened my eyes to angles I haven't considered. Im a white 40 year old man it was cool hearing that I wasn't the only kid who loved metal and hip hop. I'm about an hour away from "the bay" and was really into shit like E-40, Celly Cel, Too Short and even edge lord rap like Brotha Lynch but I have always had a deep love for that southern sound of artists like Three 6 Mafia, UGK, 8 Ball and MJG. P.S. I'm sorry for being that white guy who's really into shit not made for him but I will continue to still find those sounds relatable in different ways.
The first white fans of hip hop in NYC in those real early days were punks, because they came from similar places and from similar communities for a long time. Given your closeness to the Bay, I can almost guarantee a similar thing happened in your neck of the woods at first. I know a lot of old punks I met in SF and Berkeley were often quiet fans of hip hop, just not generally the normal, mainstream stuff. So you're definitely far from alone, going all the way back to at least the early 80s.
I never understood that Cameo line until now. I thought he was declaring himself the best mc. The more you know...
This talk made me so happy!! As a youngin who is obsessed with 80s hip hop and also keeps up with modern releases I love seeing examples of fans with different tastes coming together in spirited discussion!
Dead Prez was legit dudes. One of my boys produced one of their tracks and he got paid on time the amount agreed upon. In the late 90s Puffy theiving era this was a rarity, that degree of legit business they did.
Im only 24 but I've taken a step away from more of the sudo (drive by rap) and rap that is meant to raise the energy and allow for an outlet for those more violent or primal emotions and in place found the jids and westside boogies and I'm not sure why that is but I've certainly enjoyed the transition.
“Some of the criticisms the older generation had of hip hop was correct”. I need this on a tshirt because i have no doubt that the misogyny/misogynoir propaganda in so many hip hop songs were part of the grassroot manosphere movement. I know i sound old af but im 34 and from new jersey so i cant stand most artists. My fave is still lupe fiasco 😅😅
Ey! Love Lupe! I just don't listen to hip-hop that plays on the radio now full stop lol
@@BeautifulEarthJa i loved him so much in high school and he actually performed at my college. I was so ready to marry him when i was a teenager 😂 aside from nas, i had never heard an entertainer say so many things i agreed with and was moved by in their lyrics
This discussion reminded me of one of the coolest things that happened to me in my academic life; went and saw GZA, so the place was mostly full of 'old heads,' and, unbeknownst to me, one of my students (20 y/o) was opening the show. I'll never forget the look on his face when I came up and gave him his props. After he picked his jaw up off the floor, he had this massive grin on his face, brought me in for a hug. Great moment of connection between different generations of hip hop fans that had the additional benefit of making me look like the coolest m-f'ing professor ever 😄
Please keep coming with these Dr. Ball collabs FD because it doesn’t get any better than this!!! ✊🏾🔥
#blackpowermedia
Holy shit. What an excellent excerpt. Well done!
as a youth, im excited to hear this
Also, I would say I'm extremely thankful for the critique Dr Ball & others have of Hip Hop because it helped me see past the extreme Love imma always have for Hip-Hop and look at the reality of what has happened to it & us throughout history within a oppressive system.
It also makes me have a deeper Love (but not blind Love, I'm now almost expecting every artist to have a deep contradiction or to not be as radical as they sound due to the reality of music & the world with everybody having shit politics lol) for the underground or low-key thriving artist in Hip-Hop such as a Billy Woods, Pink Siifu, Navy Blue, JPEGMAFIA, Moor Mother, MAVI, Nappy Nina, Noname, etc.
@Keontesealey, Peace BPM fam, what's good?
@@ministerservertavares4714 was good! I'm glad u found FD page he got some dope content!
im v young, 19, and im afab and ill say even im uncomfortable with how sexual a lot of women are, esp in rap, but its an issue with the music industry as a whole. because women are more marketable if theyre sexual, showing skin, being seductive in mvs and all that. i do think its fine when ppl choose of their own free will to make money off of being sexual, sew work is work and i have no issue with it. what i have an issue with is the fact that women are pressured to be sexual, thats not ok. idk what the solution is but its def an issue that i want to get talked abt more, cuz its only getting worse from what i can tell, ppl are doing more and more to try to stand out from the crowd and its sad. its hard to find ppl who just care abt their music, who arent being swayed by profit motive
I’m an old head to anybody under 35 and my favorite old head MC is Rakim. After that era it was AZ, Methodman, Nas, Ras Kas, Canibus etc., I like dudes that have actual bars. Modern day dudes I rock wit are dudes like Dave East, Kendrick, Cole. I wish I knew some young heads that would put me on to some other new rappers with bars frfr.
I'm probably considered an Ole head myself. But young guys like Joey Badass, JID, Marco Plus, AktheSavior, Mavi & Meechy Darko, Mick Jenkins got bars & are paying homage.
☮️
This needs to be a much longer conversation.
Dude, I'm like 26 and I already feel the old headedness coming on.
90s Hip hop was my childhood and so important to me....I normally don't listen to any new hip hop.. ...It is interesting to see that Era of Hip hop Artist turn 50 -60 have some influence on the new kids
Same here. I've tried the current generation stuff but I just can't, it's not for me.
The Golden Era had the same effect on me... I almost totally tuned out from the early 2000s to the early 2010s, but there's actually a lot of great new HipHop influenced by the '90s in recent years, and a lot of the artists from the '90s are currently making their best music in years!
The first rap song I heard as a teenager was "The Breaks" by Curtis Blow. As a young adult, I gravitated to Public Enemy because of their message.
Great seeing Dr. Ball on here for another good discussion. I wanted to thank you for that Infinity Knives & Brian Ennals shout out from a few weeks back, I love that shit.
10:29 Bob Marley was massive amongst his black audience throughout Africa, the UK, & in the Caribbean just not the US.
They live in the US. They can only speak on their perspective, what do you expect
Some of us old heads forget how raunchy the old guard was, BIG, DMX, Snoop, they all had their explicit tracks.
I used to be big into underground hip-hop (DOOM, JMT, Technique, etc) and hated all the 2000s rap but after growing up, but after some years I realized, I just really denied myself having fun being foolish. Gotta take the music for what it is, and not make it something that it ain't.
Lol I remember C delores and Calvin Butts running over those cds back then with a steamroller. Me and the squad wanted the steering wheel of that steamroller back then, and we were in our 20s. Most rap was bad back then too.
i really hope the last parts this discussion touched on gets a video - sounds super interesting
I feel like Jared would really like some of Denzel Curry’s latest projects. Beautiful live instruments and rapping.
I am totally new to hiphop and honestly watching yall talk is so fucking interesting. I always walk away with new people to listen to
If we're talking about Black guitarists Tosin Abasi is an absolute sorcerer. He's the lead guitarist in Animals as Leaders.
It's wild to me, a DMV native thinking about AaL just yesterday, listening to a conversation with a local, that I didn't immediately think of our local guitar virtuoso
Living Color
Is another 1
F.D. Is absolutely Gitty being able to talk to someone on his musical level lol I love to see it
I would watch hour long podcasts of you guys talking. Really immersive conversation. Gonna listen to some dead prez now
Great convo
Love to hear your musical culture analysis!
It feels like people listen to the most popular artists in the game and think that's the be all end all of the genre nowadays. There's so many dope artists, here's a few: JID, Denzel Curry, Little Simz, Noname, Navy Blue, MIKE, Earl Sweatshirt, Billy Woods, Elucid, Open Mike Eagle, etc. Not to mention the obvious ones like Kendrick Lamar and Tyler The Creator. Hip hop is in a great space so it's sad to hear people talk about it as if it's dying because the mainstream dudes aren't all that.
THIS! And some more great hip hop artists:
Sammus
Ceschi Ramos
R.A.P. Ferreira
Cambatta
Sa-Roc
Run The Jewels
Megaran
Psalm One
Moodie Black
2Mex
E-Turn
Myka 9
Pharoahe Monch
Sage Francis
B Dolan
Self Jupiter
Chillin Villain Empire
Shabazz Palaces
Sole
Doseone
Some of those are old but are still releasing new music & some of them are newer artists
i love these hiphop videos like i wanna hear something about kenny mason and the blending of hiphop and rock music
this is definitely gonna be in my rotation of vids i watch consistently
22:03 GENIUS AND MY THESIS EXACTLY!! Amazing conversation as always!!
🎵I wanted to rhyme like Common Sense/ But I did 5 mill, I ain’t been rhymin like Common since‼️🎵
so interesting so many more ideas to explore. come through with those i am waiting!
Great interview, since I am the, "DOPEST Hip Hop GrandPop", I definitely gotta give big shout to my BPM comrade Dr. Ball for representin' for the REAL Hip Hop old heads!!😂👊✊ For the record... there are maaaad Hip Hop artists over 40 who are creating DOPE music for our PEER group, unfortunately, MOST of my peers are not checking for those artists!!🤦♂ Also, I would love to heard this conversation get into the cultural, educational and political aspects of Hip Hop, looking forward to more of these intergenerational discussions, keep SHININ', Word!!😎
Would love to hear you expand on why/how that Rockstar to Rapstar switch happened!
That last statement from Dr. Ball is fire!
Great convo!
As a former metal head and general rock fan, there's something to your point about the replacement of rock stars with hip hop, but the whole hard rock genre that defined my high school feels stuck in the mid 00s sound. I put on the hard rock station and it's 50/50 "classic" bands or new bands trying to sound like those classic ones. I haven't heard a new hard rock band with their own identity in years.
Im 27 and still listen to the newest artists. Love ice spice or play boi carti when i lift in the gym but still listen to what i grew up on like mos def, mf doom, etc. Its interesting to see polor opposite takes from time to time even if they find my interests silly
There is a guy who taught a series of classes at Spelman College in 1992-96. Dont remember his name but he'd be very interesting to speak with regarding this issue.
Dead Prez is still making music and performing.
Not one minute in and I recognized who was being interviewed. This is not the first time you have connected with him too, I feel. dope.
Why do folks keep forgetting hip hop is teen music. We can enjoy and time travel with our favorite artists but our favorite artist cannot keep up with the current trends because they aren't teens anymore.
No one has to be on trend. One can carve his or her own path. And Hip-Hop is who many of us simply are. No one has to leave this culture, this movement, this being, to one demographic.
In my teen years (late 1970's 80's) hip hop was more dance based and I understood the lingo. I don't know what hip hop is now (or supposed to be) but the teens do.
I'm from Toronto and I love southern hip hop. The sound is so wavy.
Current day boom bops: Joey Badda$$, Westside Gunn, Smokedza.
I could understand how ogs see current rap how they do. It sounds completely different to what they’re used to. Every generation has the same opinion about the next generations music and gen z will be the same in 20 yrs
As a white cuban. Listening to Dead Prez at 14 yrs old lets get free inoculated me to a lot of racist assumptions that get ingrianed in you as a kid. Its really change how i saw the world and changed my life.
It was crazy I went FSU and Dead Prez came to do a show. Tallahassee is Stic Man's home town btu the whole audiance was still white
This lit up some semi dormant memories of the late 80s/early 90s 😃
Its worth mentionning there are several older rappers that have been putting out some great work lately: Black Milk, Phonte, Elzhi, billy woods, Roc Marciano, Danny Brown, Lupe Fiasco just to name a few
I remember being a kid and hearing Public Enemy’s Fight the Power on the top 5 at 5 on V103 in Baltimore.
Revolutionary rap was all over the radio in the 80s and early 90s and as kids we all loved it. We were black and proud.
That’s why I side eye anybody who says kids don’t wanna hear any conscious music. Everybody loves to hear music that makes them proud to be who or what they are.
I would love to hear more about your metal vanishing from the mainstream and transitioning into mainstream rap theory. It's something I have never considered or even heard anyone talk about. I'm not a metal fan so that could be why, but I definitely remember the time where metal was the music for the working class masses and it's dominance of the airwaves as you mentioned. As a punk fan myself Dr. Ball is exactly right about about not being able to sell white capitalism though punk rock. At least as far as the underground is concerned punk rock and white capitalism are completely antithetical. Very interesting to think about, look forward to your thesis on this.
I don't hate on the youngin's, because this is their world and words. Just think of what they see, hear and know. Let me put this out there, who was mad popular in the hood back in the day..... Master P
Old Man Saxon makes actual dad rap and its awesome He references aging in many songs.
HipHop has been around 50 years. Its inevitable it would become commercialized, basterdized & in some respects, played out.
But the essence of HipHop lives on through the internet. Underground & independent artists like Joey Badass, AktheSavior, Caleb Gordon, Marco Plus, Mick Jenkins, Chester Watson, KennyMason.. i could go on.
☮️
Great content, wish it was longer.
21 being compared to Bun B is wild!!!
Loving this link up 😎
As old Hip Hop "auntie" from way back, and though I can listen to some of the current artist, I find it vile. And yes, I know I'm now sounding like the father in the "I Need Love" video, but the subject matter is destructive and violent, and the biorhythms of the beats are mind numbing and controlling. However, I like MoneybaggYo lol.
The biorhythm of the beats? I’m SUPER interested in what you mean by that.
Shout out to FK for naming the 4 Black fem content creators I watch all the time. If you haven't checked out any of them I highly recommend 👌🏾
It's mad interesting how other forms of radical music have been undermined. Aside from Hip Hop it's also predominantly Folk and Punk in many areas and was Reggae, some Calypso, and a few others in different parts of the world as far as fairly popular and movement style music goes, plenty of more traditional and regional musical styles and I'm sure it's plenty I've just never heard of, unfortunately.
But folk has long been maligned as "white guy with a guitar" cringe regardless of the reality and, aside from a VERY few exceptions, is almost entirely ignored. There's a pretty amazing underground scene made up predominantly of anarchist squatters and travelers that is usually called "folk punk", "anarcho-folk-punk", "flail", "blackgrass", etc, but due to the nature of living life hopping freight trains, hitching, playing random shows, busking, and recording when someone is kind enough to let ya use their DIY garage "studio" or ya break in somewhere and do it (something Profane Sass did at a collage iirc) it's remained pretty underground. Yet their is still a small TikTok community of yuppies in the burbs in their McMansions copying the style and saying how much they can relate to a queer abuse survivor that ran away to hop freight and try to live free but watched friends die, picked up a nasty mix of heroin addiction and alcoholism, and all that can come with the life of ya don't know any better. And the whole mullet and mustache, bike shorts/ cutoffs, sleeveless shirts, and bad stick and poke tattoos is a very common look among crusties yet it's not mainstream almost 🤦🏽♂️
While punk (and it's derivatives, offshoots, and subgenres) has had to constantly fight against co-option and being buried from day one almost. Even in the protopunk days jocks and violent skids misunderstood the whole idea behind the dancing and reason for the rage. In the 70's the Sex Pistols were created by a label and pushed as the most punk thing ever despite being nothing like a CRASS or even Clash. In the 80's they couldn't have groups like Reagan Youth, Conflict, Discharge, Millions of Dead Cops, etc, getting too much love so New Wave was pushed heavy and crossover bro music took off. The 90's saw a resurgence, especially with crust punk and powerviolence had a rebirth/birth so we had the come-up of skate punk and pop punk. While neither are necessarily liberal, reactionary, or otherwise problematic inherently, they definitely lend themselves more towards Green Day (didn't get political til much later and even then was just liberal raging, better than most but not as radical as the aesthetics let on), Blink 182, bands that would lead to the horrible mall emo scene in the 00's and beyond, or even bands like NOFX that straddle the line hard asl and seem very political but more often than not land on liberal reformism and lifestylism than anything radical than a band like Operation Ivy that had a lotta political messages, or a Propagandhi which has always been very anarchist. And even currently hardcore and other punk styles have never been more diverse or radical yet kids are instead being steered towards drug addict rappers that were birthed from the Sound Cloud wave and are aesthetics-only most of the time. It's been a nonstop fight.
And we've seen areas where once radical reggae, ska, rock steady, Calypso, etc, be taken over by hate-filled dancehall and similar styles. Even some modern examples that seem radical are mad superficial and the ones that actually are radical are marginalized.
Basically, name a radical art form and you'll inevitably find that it was marginalized, slandered, belittled, suppressed, etc, versions were made and pushed that were "safe", some alternative was pushed instead, etc, etc, etc. Hip hop is just one of many, unfortunately 🏴
I don't understand why Alternative female rappers don't get the mainstream attention unlike the hypersexual female rappers
Partly because other than their fanbase, the only people who talk about those artists use them as a cudgel against female rappers that aren't doing rap "the right way"
Because Hip-hop is a male centric artform. You can get knowledge from other dude rappers, you can't get boobies from them.
Sex sells, simple as.
I will argue you can still be sexual. Junglepussy. Sexually empowered and provocative lyrics. Amped up by a lot of the OG female rappers.
Yet also won't when be at the same level as Ice Spice as her music isn't marketable to male sexuality or Mike Will Made Its standards. If it doesn't meet the cis male's gaze, it won't make it. Same with Quay Dash, and plenty of other sex positive rappers (and those who don't talk about sex) who are indie. Even Princess Nokia.
Same reason it's mostly the men that rap guns and drugs that get played...
yooooo you got a legend on
His George Jackson mixtapes helped radicalize me as a youth