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"people confuses Beyoncé work ethic with her being light skin." you hit the nail on the head with this one. her being lightskin took her to some places but this woman had to knock walls down with her bare hands to stay in the game for 20+ years in the music industry.
She also had wealthy parents. A mom that was dressing her to look the most desirable. A dad who wss her manager. Yes she worked but not even White artists have the privileges she had. I would say she is similar to Michael Jackson but like if the Jackson 5 already came from money. Lol
Also are we forgetting that Beyonce's own FATHER said she had light skinned privileged and they hired darker skinned women in Destiny's Child to make Bey stand out more?
@@miamor8663 Mathew Knowles also confessed that the ONLY reason why he dated Tina was that he thought she was a White woman. He said he preferred White women in the 60s despite being attacked by racist White men.
Pink was "forced " by her 1st albums production team to be a R&B artist. I believe she didn't like being made a puppet. So her subsequent albums she made the rock pop music she really liked.
Yes, the bling era/post-bling era was strange. Everybody had to make hip hop and club music even if they didn’t want to. As soon as they took control of their music, they made much better album. Ke$ha is another example of this.
@@jcnot9712 Kesha’s first album was pop to the core so idk bout that one lol. But yes they had the suburban kids outchea on every hip hop track especially as features lol
Thing is I don’t think her audience is BW though. I think her appeal is to white people, esp since she doesn’t date black guys + that Tiny Chat scandal. She lost a lot of support that she won’t easily win back. But maybe that’s just me
@@TheSkyrimps3 she wouldn't be so big if she didn't have white appeal so it's really not a stretch to say her appeal isn't rly bw. Blk ppl like kid Cudi but his audience is mostly white at a concert.
Her audience can honestly be both because her personality is quirky and weird which a good amount of black girls can relate to and also some white women can too. I think she appeals to both black women and white women.
The point you made about "my product is blackness" really made me stop and think for a moment about the reasons why I subscribe to you and some of your black TH-cam colleagues (T1J, foreign, Khadija, etc.) and why I am here to listen and learn. I grew up in the north of the UK, and according to the census, the local county I grew up in is 98.9% white out of about 150k people, and the 1.1% are most probably Asian. I know it must feel trivial to keep having to explain these basic concepts to white people on what must be obvious to anyone who lives in a diverse community, but for us folks who missed out on those experiences by growing up in all white communities (what I now know to be white habitus thanks to you), we really need these concepts explaining to us from people who experience it, and for that I really appreciate the work you do
I had exactly the same response. I grew up in a borough of NW London that was very mixed - the kids at my school were around a third Black, a third South Asian, and a third white - but where I live now in the south of England is majority white and I have a limited number of Black friends or really any people of colour in my life. And while I'm not usually consciously aware of it, I'm definitely drawn to creators who offer perspectives other than ones I'm used to hearing. I didn't really think about how that makes their Blackness (or whatever other trait they might have that's different to any I possess) their "product", but that totally makes sense.
@@vcrmchl Funny you mention NW London, I moved to Brunel University in London in 2003 and spoke to POC folks for the first time at 18 years old. Mad isn't it! (but true) I learnt so much from those guys in my uni halls of residence, particularly with the sharing of food and cooking experiences. They took the time to explain their culture to me, for which I am forever indebted. They made me fried chicken, smoked fish, jollof rice, breadfruit and plantains (to name a few). And for anyone interested, in return I cooked them an English roast dinner from time to time and I can report that they often liked the Yorkshire Puddings with gravy, but did not care for the cauliflower cheese bake 🤣
Same, from northern England originally. I'll be honest I've known very few black people in my life. I'm acutely aware if I'm listening to black music for example, especially if it's particularly politically charged and angry that I'm consuming 'blackness' in a way that is at least worthy of reflection. If I feel catharsis listening to Killer Mike expressing his anger about police brutality, am I simply rubbernecking? I honestly don't know.
Speaking of blackness and how it’s perceived I'd like someone to do a deep-drive on the similarities and differences between Keke Palmer and Zendaya's careers. This may be one of the clearest examples of how colorism plays out in Hollywood. They were both child-stars, but their mainstream popularity is very different.
For Doja, it’s hood cosplay. Kinda cringed at her feature with French Montana where she was rapping about being a “hood rat bitch” & fucking up her edge control. Knowing bits and pieces about her background, it’s easy to see through that, but knowing that her audience is also super broad and white, they eat that up. Your point on racialized urban Blackness as a product, for Doja creates mass appeal while also having her still maintain a distance from the ratchetness she strategically performs.
I agree she grew up in suburban Los Angeles with her white half of the family. Sadly it ain’t her fault, her father is incompetent pos for abandoning her
an observation that stuck me while watching this: there's no doubt in my mind that if someone asked the average person in my peer group (white girls in college) who considered themselves a fan of doja's music "how do you feel about doja cat's problematic behavior?" - they'd have no clue what behavior that question was referencing. they might be familiar with the recent 17 year old boy debacle, but certainly most wouldn't have heard anything about any controversy related to race or Blackness. just an insight i found interesting with regards to what different groups of people deem "important" and how the ways that information travels as a result end up affecting the set on information people end up with, which feeds right back into the first thing, and - you get the point. have been a fan since i first stumbled on your "break bread" video back when that came out - keep up the good work.
I think I found her randomly because of Rico Nasty, but when the stuff about the chat rooms came out, I can honestly say I wasn't shocked. Like FD said, she just gave off underlying vibes that she wouldn't have hung out with us in normal social situations. Although she would have been best friends with this one girl I went to school with. She was darker than me, but only listened to white artists, was only attracted to Robert Pattinson types, and one time straight up said she wished she was white. We were in different friend groups so I never bothered to explore where that came from tbh. I was still a fan of some of her songs, but that vibe never went away after all this time.
I remember having seen an interview where Pink said she was uncomfortable with her misinterpretation as a woman of color but her label pushed her that way and she had no power. It wasn’t until she was a bit more established that she felt she could portray her real self (punkish). It’s the same interview in which she talks about her beef with Christina Aguilera on the Lady Marmalade set.
I wonder how mainstream and black culture would have reacted to lizzo if she was lighter-skinned. So much of her career has been defined by the insane amount of harassment she gets being a black plus-size woman. I wonder if she receives the same amount of hate if she was “racially ambiguous” or if she would receive more support from the black community if she were darker skin.
It’s mostly fat phobia being a black plus sized woman has to be terrifying especially in the media, they chew her up just for breathing. But i do believe if she was lighter people wouldn’t go so hard on her
Weirdly, I almost think it’d be worse… here me out. As a plus size, dark black woman myself, people feel a sort of comfort in it, not like it’s true, but they feel (and screw Azealea Banks for pointing it out in an incorrect way), that allows her to almost be a big momma, thus the love that say an Aretha got before. What bothers people about Lizzo is she’s not a big, black, ‘desexualized’ woman. Lizzo is sexual and plus size and darker skinned all together. I think they’d have a problem with a more racially ambiguous Lizzo type because her skin tone could be considered more threatening to the “who we consider attractive” norms.
@@dnikkithatsame5990 I get it. But I don't think so. We have big white women on magazines covers, in sexual positions and big women like Tess Holiday who has millions of fans and dollar's, when black women make up the obesity population, and were made fun of for it, so you think they would get those positions.
I don’t like her on a personal level however I can’t deny that the women is talented! 🤦🏽♂️ I’ll hear a song, fall in love with it , then find out it’s by her lol. But it’s clear she not for black people but quick to say Nigga in her music. Her performative blackness is frustrating. You spoke all facts in this video
@@gretchengeorge5302 I know what she puts out there like her partaking in racist chat rooms, having very few black people in her circle, and only engaging with Black people to promote her music.. clearly I don’t know he personally but what she puts out there isn’t the greatest. Any other questions?
I feel like when you're talking about 'dark-skinned' black women what you actually mean is unambiguously black women rather than actually dark-skinned black women because... a couple of the women you cite pass the paper bag test, as fucked up as that phrase is.
As a weird person myself, it is totally unsurprising to me that people with the unique brains to make innovative music (like kanye and doja cat) also make weird decisions in their social lives and have strange political opinions. Expect the unexpected, for better and worse.
@@suzygirl1843 they are subservient to white people literally, i was convinced after that vid of kanye holding ribs and some other food while yuppies eat from his hands in the back of a limo
I definitely wouldn’t put Doja on the same level as Kanye. She churns out hypersexual pop melodies that are always going to make waves on the charts (nothing wrong with that either, make your money), but she’s not out here redefining the industry or pushing herself sonically. She’s having her moment until the next young upstart takes the stage.
“I critique the things I like!” Goddamn I hate having to defend myself when I critique things I like. As if we’re supposed to just stare or listen dumbfounded and let shit just wash over us without thinking about it.
I'm excited for that biracial discourse video because as a black and white biracial person, the discourse is especially infuriating. I will never argue that I have the same experience as a monoracial Black person. But I am still Black. I am also white and also mixed. All those things are true. I understand I have a level of privilege due to my light skin but I also will never be treated like or seen as white due to my non-european features. I think mixed/biracial people have valuable insights to bring to conversations about race but it's often diminished by people (monoracial or multiracial) who diminish race to being either/or. As the population of mixed people in the US increases, it's a conversation we need to have. I do not wish to speak over the experiences of monoracial Black people, especially darker-skinned Black people because I can't understand their experience fully just as they can't understand mine. However, I think mixed people deserve to be listened to about our unique experiences at the intersections of different races. I hope that you speak to mixed people in your biracial discourse video like you've spoken to people with experiences outside of yours in your other videos.
Doja cat always read me as Donald's kinda femme parallel of the "weird black girl who glo'd up and never really fw black people as a passive aggressive revenge" I still think shes talented af but like you said a lot has to do with upbringing and roots and what's reinforced in and out of home. Also shes a big memer as a younger millenial
I saw Doja Cat perform at a small venue in 2018, probably under a year after her song “Moo” blew up, for like 15 bucks. She did a lot of weird stage banter, which was my first time seeing her interact with an audience. It’s weird to see how much and how little she’s changed, because her attitude and actions have stayed the same, but her fame has greatly escalated. The stuff she did online or to a small crowd back then doesn’t fly now, and she pretty much always defends it, which shouldn’t be the case in many instances. I’m not going to say she’s a horrible person at all, but she hasn’t hashed out her own personal issues, and they’ve carried with her.
I once played a game with friends, where we put on the entire all-time So Fresh playlist and skipped every problematic artist. We didn’t get to listen to very many songs lol. At a certain point ya just gotta like the music or not, unfortunately. It’s the one area where Spotify not paying artists fairly works well, cos you can listen without feeling you’re financially rewarding them.
She's 1 foot in and 1 step out. Whites live vicariously through them since YesJoulez and Iggy Azalea couldn't succeed in the black rap and hip hop space
The video that kicked me in the teeth about "consuming black content" was Erykah Badu and Common's "Love of My Life" video. I loved that it was an homage to Common's (Sense) song, "I used to Love H.E.R." So when the video came out for Badu's song and there was the part where she was the DJ on the stage, turned around and saw an entirely white audience, I was like, Oh, that me. 😬
You say Beyonce is when dark skinned black women went out of vogue, but I think Jennifer Lopez did it. Once America saw that black women aesthetics could be sucesfully assimilated by non black women, it was a wrap.
I say kinda but tbh Jennifer never was a HUGE star or known for her talent as an actress or singer. She was maybe celebrated on black circles but mainstream commodification was not heavy on her
@@signifiedbsides1129 It wasn't about her singing and acting though. It was about the fact that she had a big ass. The way white media propped her up so much back in the day you coulda fooled me. Access Hollywood and Entertainment Tonight and all those white celebrity outlets consistently talked about Jennifer Lopez and how big her ass was. Big asses were not a thing for white people until Jennifer Lopez blew into town.
@@signifiedbsides1129 Not sure what exactly you mean by being a "huge" star, but Jennifer Lopez was pretty big in the late 90s-early 00s. She also had an impact on how beauty standards were thought of, effectively popularising (or helping to popularise) the "wide hips, big butt" body type. Also, she pretty much made the "spicy Latina" trope popular again in US media O.o
Jennifer Lopez is massively successful in Latin America and considered an icon within our diaspora though, to quote Wikipedia: “Lopez is considered a pop culture icon, and is often described as a triple threat entertainer. With a cumulative film gross of US$3.1 billion and estimated global sales of 70 million records, she is considered the most influential Hispanic entertainer in North America. In 2012, Forbes ranked her the world's most powerful celebrity, and the 38th most powerful woman in the world. Time listed her among their 100 most influential people in the world in 2018. Her most successful singles on the US Billboard Hot 100 include "If You Had My Love", "I'm Real", "Ain't It Funny", "All I Have", and "On the Floor". For her contributions to the recording industry, she has a landmark star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and has received the Billboard Icon Award and the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award, among other honors.” She’s about as A-List as a celebrity can get.
About 9:30, where you're talking about your appeal being your "blackness". I agree with what you're saying, but I think there's also another dimension to it. You're a black American, and I like your content specifically because it gives me insights into American culture as a Brazilian immigrant. I think you should check out how other countries treat race, specially ones that have parallel histories to the US like Latin/South America. I'm not saying other places are better or worse, but there are some things that I believe are uniquely American that you might assume are the same everywhere, the the one drop rule that you mentioned.
As a latina from the caribbean yes to this! I have lived in US territory for long time, but I still experience race in a different way than they do in the US. My entire family is VERY mixed, but we dont have any "one race" relative. Everyone that is still alive is mixed. Some of us have light skin, some of us have dark skin, the majority are in between, and defining what my race is has always been complicated. I am me, I am dominican, and i am a mix of cultures and races. If I had to pick one i would pick black, as my music, food, and many traditions come from the african side. I speak spanish, but I cant say that i feel close to spain whatsoever, so I have never felt white. So weird
As a huge fan of hers, I truly think Doja Cat has had multiple opportunities for growth and has not taken them. One of the reasons I continue to (cautiously) enjoy Cardi B as an entertainer is because she actually has shown growth on some level. Problematic as she may be, she at least engages in dialogue with people who call her out in order to learn to do better. Doja seems to take after her idol Nicki Minaj in that she responds to criticism and call outs with immaturity, instead of trying to understand the harm she contributes to. I really want better for both of them.
Whewww the way cardi deals with criticism is public and messy BUT i’ll give it to her shes really engaged with political and social issues outside of her foolishness
I really wish I could just forget about the messiness of all three of these women. I love them all so much, but it's just all so messy. It's always such a reality check when I defend them because I do be defending them because I want to believe they're always trying to better themselves, as we all should be.
@@kidawesomeness123 she knows nothing about political issues she be getting it all wrong and it kills me fr she needs to drop music instead of all this other nonsense
@@ievolcisum honestly when u realize they’re all human beings just like us but they’re rich you would understand why they act the way they act, sometimes they defend themselves and sometimes they just be doing dumb shit like a lot of us when we are off social media
Cardi B doesn't take criticism well. She was literally arguing with the Shade Room because they are not bowing down to her orders and pushing narrative that she wants to the public. She has done this to other black female bloggers, she literally doxxed 'blacktea blog (also owned by a darkskinned bw)' and called her ugly, just as she did to the Shade Room owner. Cardi has a weird tendency of going after black female owned blogs and she never keeps the same energy for white owned publications. Cardi literally calls her own fans dumb. Stop f*cking coddling Cardi, she far from being mature
This makes me guess that in Hollywood spaces, there's too much casual intermingling of minors with adults. I don't even mean in a romantic sense; just too many cases of children being talked to like adults
Oof, this hits. In the "real world" it's practically common sense that a teen 10 years younger than you is *not* your friend or your buddy. Idk if any grown adult who'd confide in a 17 y/o...like...why? What valuable insight or emotional comfort could you expect to obtain from a teenager? And the conversation between Doja and this kid very obviously wasn't in any sort of mentorship context (at least not for the kid, lol). I also think this situation is telling of how the lines between minors and adults aren't as clear in Hollywood and it's definitely food for thought.
Doja is the prime example of the saying "you can tell when a Black person was raised by a white mother." And I know you may not want to hear it but it's true lol. And as someone who actually is biracial, I have no problem letting everybody and their mama know this because being a voice of reason in the online biracial discourse is my thing. It is what it is lol.
Raised by a white mother and abandoned by the black father. When will black men be held accountable for creating broken homes and in extension broken biracial children...
its true unfortunately, because of patriarchy, mothers would be more present and involved in their kids lives, you subconsciously internalized whatever things your mother believed to an extent where as you grow you have to work to unlearn. It makes a lot of sense, and idk why people act like its such a controversial opinion to have.
#faxxxx I'll do you one better... you can tell when a black person wasn't raised around other folks who look like them 🤷🏾♀️ if you kno, then you kno 💯
Same , she always looked like a whole Punkish White Lady to me.... I also don't remember her being "urban" persay.... but maybe I was too young 🤔.... 🤷🏽♂️
I was very confused when I saw a video of hers for the first time. I think it was "There you go", which I only knew from the radio before and listening to it, I had just assumed that she was black. But it wasn't a big deal to me, finding out that she was white. I just wasn't expecting that. 🤷🏾♀️
@@MsReveur I looked up the video you were talking about... for me at least, I still don't think she looked black at all, so I am curious why fd Said she was known for blackishing... Though I will say , I've never heard this sound outve p!nk , I thought she was just Punk Pop , but yet here she was Givin Tlc Vibes lol so I guess I could see how that's a bit odd
@@hezeriahquinary-halliwell8635I remember being very young (4-6) am my first time seeing her I had to double take because she kinda looked like Keyshia Cole w a perm to kid me.
Love this, but one thing. Whilst I know that Doja is an American artist, it occurs to me also in the description of Trevor Noah that sometimes Africans are perceived as downplaying or inauthentically performing their blackness in American contexts, when they are been authentic to their own personal or cultural expression of blackness.
Trevor Noah gets paid in American dollars. When he talks about the Black American experience, particularly the injustices we experience, the appearance is that he is speaking (to a white audience) for us (Black Americans). He's not. That's why he is heavily scrutinized.
I remember when Pink first came out they promoted her as a light skinned black woman or a biracial woman and she deny it at the time. After her first R&B album, she went Pop. She did say in one of her songs that it was LA Reid's idea to promote her that way.
While I like R&B Pink, I do know that L.A. Reid controlled her artistry, and she was not happy. I wish she was more honest about why she does not want to sing her R&B songs no more💯
@@JulianSteve Although I think she did great at R&B, I think she preferred singing in the soft rock genre. I don't think she really wanted to be a Pop performer.
@@fideletamo4292 Man, the deception in the entertainment industry knows no limits. Although there has been white R&B singers for some time, not all of the made to pretend to be racially ambiguous. Teena Marie, Lisa Stanfield and even Joss Stone presented themselves as white.
@@heiress. take it back even further lol moo, Candy, juicy, so high, no police, right side ( even though she’s just featured). I love her problematic ass lolol
Use to love Doja as a person, when I 1st found her. Now I just like her music She’s not really likable person honestly she’s just talented and if it wasn’t for her talent she’d be off the radar 🤷🏾♂️
Her talent? Maybe her skintone, her white fanbase, and her pretty privilege? Not denying her talent tho but if she was normani, she won't be there no more...lol..
Agree with these concepts playing into the discourse, but there has been PLENTY during the last few years (just maybe less critically bc she hasn’t actually spoken to black issues.) she also doesn’t claim to have her finger on the pulse of the community or claim different kinds of black culture for herself which other artists (good ex is drake) has done. I think claiming their hasn’t been discourse is basically putting blinders on to black women who have been creating content on her specifically.
When you mention that part of your appeal is blackness I absolutely understood what you mean. I grew up as a Latino male who while not particularly browned skin I still grew up as non-white passing. As a millennial black man I absolutely value your perspective not only because you have earned a degree but because of the experiences you have. I absolutely follow you for your blackness in the same way I follow contrapoints for her non-conformity in terns of gender norms. While it's not exactly one for one its in essence similar. I value your perspective and I understand the context its coming from. While I love Doja Cats songs from now on I will not ignore the implications that her views have on her music. Please continue doing what you're doing and don't forget that we're all trying to figure it out in this insane world we find ourselves in.
In your Drake video, when you said his success is due to his music being accessible to everyone, you don’t have to be black to be into Drake, etc… Doja is the female version of that. Hypothetically, they could be any race performing the same music with the same success because they never explicitly or even implicitly mention things that are central to the black experience
doja catches more flack because her preference is caucasian dudes . and that's refreshing in a world where black dudes are prima donna colorists. i don't find that one slip up bizarre . i don't get the hoopla.
She's said the n word in songs so I don't think that's particularly true tbh. Yet so has Drake. That sort of success comes from brandishing the culture and hiding your hands when you're called out for not helping the community or being called a "sell-out." For example Nipsey Hussle was a community leader in a way Amala and Audrey could never be, even though they have much more resources to do so.
Just saying the n-word alone packs the argument about not speaking to a black experience up. Also, it's okay if you don't like it, but black artists don't have to speak to the "central black experience" to make valid art. We shouldn't pigeonhole black artists in that way. Let her make her fun pop music.
@@LetterNumber we’re saying…by just saying the n-word…it represents…the black experience? Wtf are you talking about😭😭😭😭😭i dont even like kodak black but that man made a whole project on the issues in haiti and that nigga is the worst of us💀💀. Doja aint touched on a single black experience apart from “niggas aint shit”, the irony💀💀💀
I'm very excited to see your video on the Mixed/Biracial discourse. I agree that this basic understanding of the one drop rule is exhausting. And I don't want to say first world problems, but so much of the discourse is centered around media representation, which is important, however most Black people aren't Hollywood. Denying mixed people's Blackness seems real harmless when it's Zendaya, but what about a regular person in Alabama. Also, why are people so committed to these absolutes? I can very easily say a mixed person is Black and simultaneously know they're mixed and recognize the privilege that comes with that. Not to mention some mixed people just look straight up Black.
Finally, in my experience, the discourse has a generational divide. I'm the youngest of the millennials and most people (in real life) that are my age and older don't have a problem with mixed people saying they're Black, in fact, some people will look at you crazy if you don't identify as Black. But I've seen a lot of Gen-Zers, including my younger sister, say that they don't see mixed people as Black. I wonder why there is that shift...
As someone who is biracial and who constantly has to remind people that "interracial relationships are still interracial even when there's no white person" (lol) I must say that people in the US gotta stop not letting biracials be biracial/mixed. And I know that may sound silly but I'm being serious. Why? *Because too many of us only want to be "Black" when we benefit from it while still reaping the benefits of being mixed and that's not okay.* Especially when people in the media are more than eager to make us the face of Blackness even if we don't have a Black parent (looking at that South African girl from Lucifer). That's not okay! I also think a lot of people in the US don't realize how making kids (because that's when it starts - childhood) choose a racial box that isn't accurate messes with us. Because at the end of the day, not everyone is going to see you as one race. Hell, depending on your physical features and the common knowledge of those around you, not everyone will accept the racial identity you want to identify as lol! So yeah, this is why you have so many mixed people saying "I didn't know who I was as a child because I was never enough here and there" and etc. Like seriously, people in the US need to learn to just say "mixed" and let it be that lol. And yes I keep saying the US because this is literally a problem I see in the US. Identifying as "bi/multi" outside the US is normalized in so many places and the only time it *may* be looked at funny depends on the context of the situation.
@@MrScreenplay WELL SAID here… However, I too am a Gen Z’r and I grew up with a ton of people as light or lighter than a Doja and there was ZERO controversy over their “blackness”, but it’s the YOUNGER generations now that I seem to find go out of their way to create some sort of pseudo movement in “biracial or purity politics” to hang their hat on. What’s most sus is when I spot a few people my age who occasionally join in with the foolishness of “in my day “these” people weren’t black”, I’m like, “Why you lying, why you always lyin… 🎶I’m lookin forward to F.D. making a piece on this conversation…
@@annoyedbyyourface I wish I had more time to respond to this comment at the moment, but I will try to touch on the major points. I have known many mixed Black people who DO NOT opt in and out of Blackness. I've seen some who do, but I'm not going to say all mixed people can't identify as Black because of that. Mixed people who want to identify as Mixed, I respect their decision, and will address them as such. It's not a problem. However, you keep mentioning the US and I'm glad you did. I'm going to say something a lot of people don't want to hear. I don't think it's appropriate or respectful to come to the US and tell Black Americans they need to reframe how they see Blackness. I understand that many other countries categorize Black people and mixed people separately, and I respect that, and I would never go to another country and tell them they have to categorize Mixed people as Black. Black Americans have our own unique history, and we have our reasons for considering mixed people as Black. And it's not that we're brainwashed as many people like to insinuate. That is insulting. I won't go into all the details, but in short, mind your business. Please respect our decisions and know they were made with purpose,
The P!nk thing... her 2nd album forward much more resembles who she was as an artist before she got signed. Her first producer was LA Reid. She even jokes about it in a song "LA told me 'you'll be a pop star. All you have to change is everything you are.'"
Ever since Doja went on her unhinged rant against the YT’er who makes plastic surgery videos, I’ve lost a lot of respect for her. I can understand being upset if you don’t want to be talked about, but the person in question gets plastic surgery herself, isn’t malicious, and Doja sent her fan base to that woman. Like whether she’s likes it or not, she is in a position of power and should be more careful. Crazy intense fans stalk and harm people. Also, she came off the exact opposite of what she intended. It made her look defensive.
The youtuber is annoying af. She's totally making stuff up about people's appearances i totally get why doja was mad. Pretty sure you'd be mad if someone was making false assumption about every inch of your body.
@@Alicegab300 if you have or not have it it's annoying, but when you are popular you just don't fight with low level people. All popular celebs detach themselves from responding to controversy/ commentary by random people because that just reduce your value.
Lorry Hill talks out of her ass, has no medical background or expertise in plastic surgery and is making money lying and pandering to insecure ugly people. Doja is immature af but I think she was right in that situation. Imagine someone scrutinizing and hyper analyzing every inch of your body. I would've been angry af too.
It's always so interesting because dark skin in the US is not dark skin everywhere else. Its relative but coming from the Caribbean and the UK so many of the women mentioned would have been considered light skin or brown. Race is political and speaks more to your relationship with the state than anything else, but the nuances of colourism within race is so interesting to me. I will also say Beyoncé kinda inadvertently killed the dark skin desirable woman trope in media too, gone are the types of black women who are seen as desirable in films like Belly or Do the right thing, the black women who are visually propped up as beautiful are generally light skin now and close to her aesthetic.
Hell no, lol lupita, Viola Davis, sza, Aja Naomi King, kiki layne, Jodie Turner smith, little simz, Yaya dacosta, Kéké palmer, tika sumpter, Issa Rae, ari Lennox, naturi naughton, Angela Bassett, rapsody etc are black women who are either famous or played love interests in great movies or TV shows...so i don't buy into the Beyoncé made darkskin women outdated speech cuz it's not true!
@@fideletamo4292 agreed. I think it’s a bit of a lazy take that doesn’t take into account who is popular in hindsite. Also like wut lol at Whitney being dark skinned. Lupita is dark. Viola is dark. Whitney is not dark.
@@fideletamo4292 None of those women you listed come close to Beyonce’s fame, wealth or success. Lets keep it real, the most successful black pop sensations these days are light skinned and usually blonde. 🤷🏾♀️
@@gee_emm that's not the point lol, Beyoncé is not just famous cuz she's lightskin, how many lightskin black women or even white women are as rich or successful as Beyoncé? Or Oprah? Beyoncé is probably the greatest entertainer since Michael Jackson, the Lauryn Hill, brandy, Mary j, Missy, Ciara had their moment but Beyoncé is more versatile than all of them...there are still darkskin women who are doing great in pop culture so saying Beyoncé made it Harder is nonsense
That part about Drake hit me like Joe Jackson! Drake DOES perform blackness! He NEVER uses his platform to address social issues that impact the black community. He claims to love BBW women, but have you ever seen him with one? He keeps popping up in the DM's of underage white girls. He gives off culture vulture vibes! Damn, FD! I can't un-know this!
@@fideletamo4292 Okay. What point am I missing? I said he claims to love BBW, but we've never publicly seen him with one. (You know that means Big Black Women, right?) So, why'd you bring up Serena & SZA?) Have you ever seen him use his platform to bring awareness to issues that impact the black community? (Mentioning police brutality in a barbershop with Lebron James doesn't count as activism.) You can still be a fan. Just be honest.
@@geminiaxelrod4592 since when is an artist supposed to be an activist to be black? Was nat King Cole an activist? No..they are entertainers not activists unlike doja Drake is not out there singing dundo nothing...you want all the mixed black artist to be j Cole to be considered black? What about the full black celebrities who Never took a political stand like will Smith, or Michael Jordan who said republicans bye jordans too, are they less black? I'm honestly asking...
Her performativeness was HIGHLY telling in her "Vegas' Music video (the song for the Elvis movie). I swear she was only a step behind looking like Zoe Saldaña in the Nina Simone movie, lol.
I think the reason the whole biracial debate comes up is because this occurrence is pretty damn common. >Mixed girl >Raised by white mom >With little to no exposure to black people Will lead to a doja cat situation damn near 100% of the time if the girl is light enough. It really speaks to how much a person's environment shapes them.
Agreed. The vast majority of biracial people with Black heritage are the raised by non-Black women. There are a lot of these people leading diversity and inclusion efforts in corporate America. They are the "preferred Black".
@@productioninquiry8937 Seriously, sooooo many of the most visible black female celebs were raised by their white mothers... and it shows in how they interact with blackness. Halle Berry, Mariah, Alicia Keyes, Rashida Jones, Paula Patton, Zendaya... just off the top of my head... I believe all of those women, save Alicia, are with white men
@@jlcrimm1 Mariah Carey has dated a rainbow and married a Black man. I have no problem with it. I get exhausted by the desire to heap Black expectations and identity on mixed race women.
@@productioninquiry8937 🙄🥱🙄 Gurl bye. Unmm, we got skin in the game. These ladies who ain't abt the culture really get chosen to represent us dispportionately, so yea, we's gonna comment. Also Ms. Basic... expectations come from all sides but ya only salty abt the black ones #sus-AF 🤔 People should be able to comfortably express multiple facets of their identity #obvie but that's not what your lo basico comment said 🤷🏾♀️
@@chanson8508 It's visibly and phenotypically Black people who are racing to claim biracial people with Black parentage. White people don't behave this way.
At this point, I’m going to continue enjoying her music and pretend like her social media presence doesn’t exist. Separating the art from the artist yaddah, yaddah, yaddah…
I wouldn't give her money though, personally. I'll listen to her on TH-cam (with adblock), sure, or something else where I'm not spending anything and she's not getting anything. But the way I see it, life's too short and shit's too expensive to support or waste money on someone who I don't think deserves my money, who I don't like as a human being and who doesn't like people like me. The way I see it, separating the art from the artist is one thing (I mean I like Lovecraft and I'm pretty sure he'd hate me more than Doja Cat), but financially supporting a problematic (living) artist seems like it's rewarding that. Like letting yourself get exploited, on some level. To me, anyway.
I kinda used to listen to doja way before she blew up and her music did have r&b / hip hop vibes so I don’t think her old self would think she’s making ghetto music now, agree with everything else tho
Really appreciate you calling out that your product is blackness. Your channel is one that I comment on more than any others because of how you spark intellectual conversation, and I come here for a lot of different discourse topics (music, masculinity, etc), but, just like with your recent main channel video about black male objectification, I realize that I also come here to hear from a source that I enjoy to engage outside of blackness, about blackness.
Like Carlton Carter, I'm also really excited to see the video on being biracial. I'm assuming it'd only be tangentially connected to my experience, but even so. I'm Dominican and I grew up in the DR, but I was raised by my white grandmother, and I spent a lot of time online instead of among my peers, so I feel culturally adrift. I was bullied in elementary for speaking english, but I never felt American, and I never really learned what it felt like to be Dominican, with a ton of other layers under it which makes me feel like an appropriator by trying to participate in my own culture outside my country. Although a better way to say it would be that I feel alienated from my cultural heritage because I'm only now discovering it for the first time due to everything that made me lock myself in my room from middle school onward.
Please don't listen to 'em. Your culture is your birthright and those "gatekeeping" attitudes are ironically serving the goals of colonizers and white supremacists, which is to ultimate erase certain cultures.
I was late to hop on the doja cat train, only got to know her after she released juicy. Immediately hopped off right after the alt right chat room scandal, because that clearly looked like raceplay kink to me and I don't f*ck with that. All in all I absolutely agree that she gives off opportunistic vibes when it comes to her black popstar persona and I'm one of those people who has difficulties separating art from its' creator. And that's coming from a former member of the beyhive
With black is king Beyoncé dabbled in being culture-vulturey as well. I'm an African immigrant living in Europe, so I'm pretty sensitive to African cultures being appropriated for monetary gain, clout etc. and knowing of the culture wars between the diasporas of Black African descent in the US I'd rather not open that can of worms 🙃
@@KandeeClouds there's no such thing as culture vultury among black people, paying homage is not being a culture vulture, tons of modern afrobeat is dancehall and old afrobeat was jazz mixed with African music...i don't understand this culture vulture speeches among black people...black cultures influenced each other for decades, hip hop Comes from jamaican toast etc..
I was a huge fan of Doja starting back around the Moo era until maybe half a year ago because of the reasons explained in this video. What I considered quirky and cute at first, soon became annoying and immature feeling. I couldn’t quite explain why or when the shift happened, maybe it was all her constant rambling and negativity being spread on her long lives? Thank you for giving a clear explanation for the feeling I was experiencing. I even felt bad about experiencing the shift in enjoying her as a former stan. At least now I can enjoy her music with little to no attachment to her person.
30%-er here! I consciously subscribe to your channel for 3 reasons: 1. I like the cut of your jib, sir! You have a well informed, well thought out take on most of the things you talk about. Even when I don't completely agree with you by the end of a video, which is rare, I completely see where you are coming from and leave the video still thinking about how I should change my thoughts because of how complellingly yours were articulated. 2. We are just similar enough that I can understand when you describe things that are unintelligible to me. I am a white-habitus raised, cis-het millennial in the younger half of the generation who has, as have many of us, slowly become aware of all the things I don't know, essentially Bo Burnham with much less talent. So your early content as an Elder Millennial of a different race who grew up in a different part of the country filled in many the pop culture references that I "know," but as someone just a little too young or from a different cultural stream, just don't quite GET. I am to '90s hip hop and WWE as you are to metal. Lol! 3. I watch you for your blackness. I am married to a biracial person raised in white home and schools, constantly reminded that she did not fit in. Consuming content from black creators, such as yourself, helps me grapple with and sympathize/empathize with racial issues are too close and emotional for my wife to explain or for me to comprehend. Your greater age and maturity, and the distance from the person I care most about has been helpful to my marriage in so many ways. It's also brought to mind uncomfortable things, like what stereotypes are being played out in our relationship, but that is helpful too, ...helpful to my therapist's bank account... With channels as small as yours I feel a little bad for comodidying the interaction so much, but that's how it is, I guess. I hope I expressed the positive parts of my feelings toward you and your work clearly and in a way that brings you joy. All ye, praise Capitalism and the commodification of our entire self into optimally consumable products and artifacts.
I really appreciate how you broke this down and got into the heart of it. I like Doja's music, but also don't feel comfortable with how she has behaved. I truly hope that she will grow as an artist and a person.
I'm not saying she's a plant, but I think her background allowed record companies to view her as someone whos not gonna overly push black and civil rights issues, thus safe in a way.
But why isn't there this burning urgency for black male rappers to push 'black' and 'civil rights issues'? They can rap about anything they want and date as many white and latina women as they want, no 'think pieces' will be directed their way 💀
@@AG-fg1uk what rapper didn't, atleast, put out a "woke" song after Floyd? Even Nick cannon trash ass made a song. Also artist do community shit all the time, you're just not gonna hear about it unless it was you're community. 21 savage does a yearly school drive but the last time he was in the news was ppl trying to clown him about being from UK.
@@Trussme96I get what your saying but fareal fareal drake did grind hard to get where he is, it's just when he got there. Calling him a plant is disrespectful because he did put in the work.
There’s a lot to dissect about Doja Cat; however, I will say that I don’t believe she didn’t mess with black ppl before her career popped off. I’ve been listening to Doja Cat since 2013/2014. When she was an underground artist her fanbase was primarily Black/Latine and was considered more of a rapper than a singer. Her time in the LA underground scene she was more akin to rappers/artists who were similar the Odd Future archetype and made weirdo or “smoker” music. It wasn’t until she popped off that she began making more pop music (she always experimented with dance/house music). However, her behavior is similar to many Black kids who grew up in the LA county/suburbs. I don’t believe she rejected her black side but she definitely identified with the “Alternative Black kid” sub-culture that was prominent in LA culture in the 2010s. Although some artists like Tyler the Creator have somewhat diverted from that image (he’s another one I would love to watch a video on) I believe Doja never grew out of that phase.
Definitely. I don't think she hated her blackness but she probably had a rough time with it given her upbringing and how other ppl view her for it. And not lining up with the black stereotype does not make you less black but it can cause a pressure to lean into it. I think she always wanted a stronger connection to her black side but felt pushed out for being mixed and being a weirdo. Like how lots of the community mocked Tyler for being weird and creative which is associated with whiteness.
As someone who grew up as an “alternative black kid” in Texas, and going to an underprivileged high school for 3 years, it was definitely an experience of me not relating to majority of the black & latine kids in my school aside from the art kids, or band kids. I didn’t fully start really embracing where I came from until I was in my 11th grade year going to a suburban diverse high school… it was a culture shock for me, but it was also a moment of growth for me to showcase all facets of myself of being a black kid from the ghetto, but also being quirky, nerdy, alternative, and an overall artsy person. I feel like thats why I do relate to Doja in that sense, and even as of recently Doechii.
Seems like you know more about doja than Fiq. His analysis is interesting because she was underground rapping and not seemingly centering whiteness as he suggested in the video.
This is correct, I am a longtime Doja fan too since 2013 and she has definitely always been making very black music, this is not a newfound fame = newfound blackness thing. But separately she has some serious identity issues with her race. She clearly needs to work on her self image and the way she acts bc she has me now embarrassed to say I am such a fan, but I am. She was so good even way before the blow up.
I'm SCREAMING at your P!nk commentary because you're so correct but I'd never realized it before. Her debut album was one of the first CDs I ever owned lol.
For a while Pink actually refused to admit she was white, I remember seeing her in an interview asked if she was biracial she was like it doesn't matter we are all human or something like that :o
The Black biracial discourse has me conflicted. It’s yet another issue that’s not being discussed with the nuance it deserves. P.S. My unpopular opinion is that there’s way too many real world problems to worry about and too many people with careers that should be in jail for me to cancel Doja Cat for her Black daddy issues and delusional online behavior *Edited to say Black biracial discourse because biracial could mean anything, it does not mean mixed with Black. Like what would biracial culture even be?
Gods, I wish I could like this a thousand times. It’s all window dressing as the far more substantive and crushing issues weigh down upon us. Sometimes it feels like it’s all engaged in as a way to stay “busy” and away from the real work…
Pop culture shit is easy to critique. Having substantive conversations about politics, healthcare, criminal justice etc. takes extensive knowledge and education which most of us don’t have. Not to mention that pop culture draws attention.
Stop trying to give the biracial folk a pass. All wrongs need to be called out. And a lot of biracial people act a fool BECAUSE they were given one too many passes as kids because of people with your mindset.
@@Bizarro69 Goodness, I feel like you put a lot of words into my mouth that I didn’t say. To me, canceling is not just calling out someone out for what they did wrong, it’s also about being deplatformed and not being allowed to influence people anymore. I’m not giving Doja Cat a pass, I called her behavior delusional. I’m just saying that when it comes to people who really need to be canceled, Doja Cat is not high on my list. She really is one of the least of Black people’s problems.
There is biracial culture in America. They had always been and continues to be. Creole, melungeon, blue vein society… and there are constant stereotypes of how biracial ppl act and how they grow up. Because they have a distinct experience.
Its really wierd to describe Doja Cats behavior like, *moaning and telling a bunch of white dudes to call her the n-word and making a song called "dindu nuffin"*, as a "wierd quirk".
Yeah because...wtf. how you admitting she's done BS, but pass it off as lesser offensive because you like their art. That's called enabling, and that in itself is problematic and toxic... Like am I really hearing this... And she's not Black, she's biracial/mixed race. That's a fact.
I love her music(being a nerdy obviously black women) but I will say that, Doja Cat is capitalizing on black culture, but is not invested in black culture. She moves through the industry and probably life as a whole white woman. I believe when she was not famous people assumed her to be full white and probably treated her as such. I think she fully understands her privilege, she simply doesn't care.
i’m so confused how you think she can move through the world as a white woman. she is obviously not fully white she doesn’t look white. she looks mixed or maybe poc
I really hope Doechii changes the game . She’s beautiful, talented ,dedicated and fresh . Sings, Raps,Dances, artistic. I feel she is THAT GIRL. She just recently collaborated with Sza and Rico which was 🔥. I’d love to hear her with Mahalia,Solange,Glorilla or Doja Cat just to put her more into the mainstream eye. She is one of the few women that doesn’t need to be carried to make a hit . Our little swamp witch has every marker to succeed on her own .
Scratching my head at where you listed certain celebrities as dark skin. It's a first for me to hear Tyra Banks being considered dark skinned. Especially since many considered her eurocentric due to her eye color.
I was going to say this, I think a better comparison can be made with her and OF. Same quirky, black LA kid vibes. They made very problematic music back in the day and the white kids ate that shit up.
The 'my product is blackness' articulated something that has been bothering me since I picked up on the black music reactors a few years ago (I'm not gonna lie, seeing a black guy hear Down Rodeo for the first time is always gonna hit for me) (and they've been another angle into hip hop for me) but I noticed it with you and Primm as well, though Primm is I think almost explicitly selling blackness. I mean, I more or less saw it as 'black dude provides a comedic black perspective on all those movies I saw previews for but never watched growing up'. And I fuckin love Primm but I can't get away from the point that like even Donald Glover has made, about being a black entertainer in America. But like, its a complex feeling/topic cause I wanna support you, I think you're doing good and important work. But y'know. Something something no ethical consumption, something something capitalism.
It's not unethical it's just facts, just like manga is commodified asian culture...you Can keep consuming it but it's important to be aware of this fact..
Her *mother* didn’t do right by her? What about the absent father who chose not to raise her? It’s disturbing to see her lack of connection of Black culture blamed on the parent who did choose to raise her, not on the man who would have been the one imparting that knowledge and those values.
Exactly! Wherever they go, black men create broken families yet the onus is always placed on women. When black men leave their black homes, the blame is always put on black women, and now when they abandon their mixed families, the blame is put on white women 🤣. One thing a black man will never do is hold another black man accountable (you know how they are) 🤣🤦🏾♀️. Doja cat's father would have been the best candidate to impart "that knowledge and those values" to Doja because he's the BLACK PARENT 💀. That's why there's no upward movement in the black community, black women are overburdened with playing the roles of caregiver and protector, while black men 'lay' in their femininity
WTF lol she had a mixed kid she did what she could but she could do better, j Cole alicia keys Obama and kaepernick mothers were white too and they obviously did a better job..if your kid is singing dundo nuthing there's something you did wrong even as a white mother..and this has nothing to do with her father..not all the mixed kid with an absent black father go so far as dumbass doja so let's blame it on doja...and of course her mother is partially responsible..there are things kaepernick, Cole, Alicia keys moms did that doja cat mom didn't, it's a fact!
Agreeed whole heartedly. He fell short with that comment honestly. Her mother did right by her by stepping up and raising her and the mom honestly probably did the best she could 🤷🏾♀️ that deadbeat ass dad is the one who didn’t do right by her. Would’ve been more of his responsibility to make sure she was in tune with her blk side more so her mom.
Do we know that her father was a "dead beat"? If her parents weren't married and her father didn't have US citizenship, he probably had no parental rights, and his ability to get involved at all would be contingent on her mother and US immigration/customs & border policies - as well as access to financial resources to travel...
I don't know how relevant my opinion is to you, since I'm not from the USA. But Doja Cat is an international artist, so maybe I can tell you a little bit about how she's perceived in Latin América. 1:00 So right off the bat I can tell you that Doja is definitely the biggest USA pop star in my country. She did a Latin American tour in March and in my country she participated in Lollapalooza, which is the biggest music festival here. I guess you could compare it to Coachella: only the biggest stars are there. She was, by far, the most expected artist of the line up. I guess Miley Cyrus was up there with her, but if you are talking about black artists, yeah, she was the biggest one. 4:40 I mean, in her biggest song ever (Say So), in her music video, she does recuperate 70's black culture... it did seem like a genuine attempt to reconnect with black culture. You call her "racially ambiguous" at 6:35 but as I said, her claim to blackness in her biggest music video ever is very present. Like, her shade of colour might be very light but she did declare very loudly I Am Black. 11:08 This segment was very interesting and enlightening. I would also add that, at least from a Latin American country, part of her selling point is that she is USAmerican. Not only is she black, but she's also a cool black, a "high class" black person, because she is from the USA. I don't have the proper sociological words to explain it, but it's something very easy to observe in the racism of my country. There's a difference between being black here and being black from USAmerica. I would call it "black aristocracy" or something like that. A born and raised black Latin American isn't as important as a born and raised black USAmerican. The easiest way I find to explain it is with the George Floyd death. It was all over OUR news, and we are just a country literally on the other side of the world... I'm not saying it wasn't important. What I'm saying is: people suffer from police brutality all the time here and it never makes the news. A USAmerican has to die for people here to think it's important. You get what I'm saying? 16:09 OHHHHHHH I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS. So remember how I talked about her Latinoamérica tour?? Welp, some of you may be aware of her... Paraguay... fiasco.... remember that thing that made her tweet "i'm quitting music" and yadah yadah? (she didn't quit shit obviously) Well, the reactions here were very diverse and very hmmmm telling! Because mostly black people and indiginous people (that's a big number of people, especially in Paraguay) have ABSOLUTELY cancelled her. People were burning her CDs (which are fucking expensive here since they are imported goods, valued in US dollars). There were public demonstrations against her. Meanwhile, white fans had a very racist reaction of saying "fuck these Paraguay people she is still queen" (Paraguay is a country made mainly by people of colour, especially indiginous people). It sort of ties back to what I talked about before: USAmerican black people are view as more important than our own countrymen. 16:44 Oh shit I had no idea about this. That really doesn't look good for her. It almost looks like a betrayal to the other women in the industry. Katy Perry basically sacrificed her entire career to stop working with him... I hope my comment was interesting to read as your video was to watch!
Katy Perry flopped despite working with him in 2017 and stopped worked with not only him but all the other pop producers, she literally had mental breakdown because of flopping during her “Witness” album release date.
@@SamKreinberg "Witness" - thr album that flopped and ended her career - is precisely the one in which she stopped working with him. Sooooo. My statement (she sacrificed her career to stop working with him) still holds true 🤡
I'd just like to note, that there was definitely more than just black and indigenous people trying to "cancel" her, and she was literally getting called N*gger.... though it is also terrible that her fans were being racist back... but I still think that I'd bit is worth mentioning
@@hezeriahquinary-halliwell8635 I don't really care about what happened, I'm just talking about the /reaction/ to what happened. Unless you are from a Cono Sur country, you didn't see it first hand as I did. And in my experience, this is what happened. Indigenous fans stopped listening to her music, while I heard white and rich fans literally say things like "fuck those (insert Paraguay people slur), Doja Cat is queen"
I'm black and I don't pay attention to music industry like that. I'm satisfied with my video games just wish there more black people in different genres of games
Do you know the side eyes I get from people when I would talk about how pink came out as r&b back in the day. Even my daughter who loves pink still doesn't like to believe me when I say that. And I'm like there's video evidence. And supposedly she was already signed with Dr Luke before the Kesha stuff became public.
I don't know if it was Beyoncé who inadvertently put a end to the rise of dark skinned or at least unambiguously black women. I would say that it was the emergence of the Kim Kardashian archetypes. But if I had to penpoint It I would say it was Christina Aguilera and even Pink. I remember very well Aguilera came out with that dark dark tan and she sounded like a traditional black women a lot of the time. Pink didn't sound like a black women but I remember people legit thinking she was either very light skinned or Puerto Rican when she dropped because her style. After that the Kardashian finished the rise of darker women entertainers off. You could start literally buying yourself a traditional black body, and after that it was over. Kinda the same thing that happened to black boy bands that rose during the 80's and 90's. Black street, boyz 2 men etc... Once executives found out that they could copy those groups with white dudes, the black boy band died out for a while.
Beyoncé is FAR from being singlehandidly responsable for the colorism in the music industry TF 🤦🏾♂️. That shit was here decades before she was born. So, I really don't understand how she should be blamed for it. There are so many light skinned women who fell off when the sound of mainstream music changed in the mid to late 2000s. Ashanti, Mya, Christina Milian, Cassie, Amerie, Teairra Marie..... But y'all don't want to talk about it. And are acting as if being light skinned is all it takes. Being light skinned will only get you so far, just like being pretty or conventionally attractive
No, Beyonce brought back the paper bag test. It's no coincidence that after her solo career took off, record labels were no longer interested in signing darkskinned bw, they all wanted their own marketable, palatable "beyonce"
@@samueltexeira2734 Yeah, but we had a ton of darkskinned female artists pre-beyonće's reign as the industry girl. Right after her solo career took off and her fellow darkskinned bandmates careers tanked, all of a sudden the industry only pushed lightskinned and unambiguous women
Tbh when there are receipts on artist who have done foul shit. Even if you either cancel them or seperate the artist from the art. Your perception of the artist and the art have been altered ever so slightly. To a point were just throwing their track on looses it’s status as a force of habit or involuntary thing. So when artist get ousted for doing cooked shit you may defend them in the interim but there will always be a lull of in how frequently you consume their art. And if you have knowledge of the things they have done. There will always be a brief moment before you press play which may be a question or even just void of anything. The main thing is there will be that moment in time which never existed before when you actively pressed play on one of their tracks or consumed their art etc.
I really appreciate the conversation that’s being had here as a multiracial women raised by a light skinned black woman. I’m in the process of breaking down the internalized racism and colorism I was raised with to be a better ally. I’m a big fan of Doja’s music but this is giving me a lot to think about. I hope she can take a break from being in the public eye to reflect on her behavior
The conversation around 9 minutes was really important and after thinking about it, I agree, I do come to your channel for a black frame of reference. I do significantly value that about your perspective on leftist topics, it’s almost like a reassurance that the way I see the world through leftism isn’t leaving anybody out and yourself and creators like Khadija Mbowe are people I check in with on topics before I decide where I stand on things. I hope that isn’t an explicitly bad thing but yeah it is a true thing, your blackness is a huge part of what adds value to your point of view. Hopefully through channel support and recommendations and patreon I’m fairly compensating that gift of perspective but if I need to adjust my thinking on that I’d love to hear about it from anyone who has insight. Appreciate the time you put into these.
I like her music but she's weird in a bad way, and she's mean af. I never thought pink was black lol what??? But yes she's big because she's light and mixed.
P!nk consistently sells millions of albums every time she drops an album. She spoken openly about the first album not being the direction or aesthetic she wanted. L.A. Reid has also said on multiple occasions that he already had the image he wanted for her when he first heard her sing and her look and sound was all his decision. They butted heads heavily on the second album and had it not been as successful as it was he would have dropped her.
I generally come to you when I really want to time into lefty discourse, not necessarily for "blackness" although that's frequently the subject matter. And honestly, your intellect and sincerity is a cut above most of the Breadtube nonsense.
10:48 thank you for sharing because you’re going to give the children a video about sell out. I’m patiently waiting. I watch these videos with the twins an they 3. Your sex education video was the first time someone talked to them about sex In constructive way. Now, I feel confident moving forward talking to them about it
I have a hard time watching actors who have had problematic and criminal behavior, but I can't "cancel" a really good song. I'm Gen X, so this has already happened to me a bunch of times. No matter the allegations, or even convictions with evidence, I can't stop bopping to a good song: it's physically impossible, and I can't explain it.
To me, Drake, Doja Cat, & Chris Brown (we can add saweetie) are all the same. To sell a product (in this case music) you have to have a MASS appeal. The 4 of them are obviously mixed raced/biracial and benefit from light skin AND pretty privilege AND ON TOP OF THAT…very very talented. That appeals to many audiences. Their backgrounds are all different, as in everyone’s is. In my opinion most people shit on Doja cause she’s a female. It’s frustrating to see people hate on her when we praise people like Kanye, Chris, & Kodak who has openly admitted to not liking black females (unless they are Lightskin or racial ambiguous).
Lightskin privilege doesn't work for MEN doing pure rap..Drake and Chris are RnB they target women..in pure rap, being a lightskin Guy is not that great
Thinking about how Azealia Banks has gotten dragged for filth for attacking racist white gay men and other stuff, meanwhile is open about her sexuality and mental health struggle and doesn’t get any sympathy or slack. If Doja and Azealia switched places, it would be a different story.
great video and discussion, it's something i think about from time to time, but... in what world is tyra banks a dark skinned black woman but not megan thee stallion, come on
Okay it's finally happened FD you finally made me feel old cuz I have never heard of this person. Okay 1 hour later I have read up on this person and yeah some weird stuff. I may not yell it from the rooftops but but I noticed other than Lizzo there is no black women who are dark skin who are big right now in the pop / R&B crossover genre. Because the majority of what we call Pop right now is just R&B. Sometimes you say things that come out your mouth and it's amazing because I go I said the exact same thing Beyonce and Rihanna are the last two black women who have obtained Mega star status. I know this I am married to a light skin woman from Jamaica. But black women influence culture so much and they're often not giving credit for it and I don't care what shade they are.
First time seeing your content. It had me squinting skeptically a couple of times, but you’ve made some really good points. Points that made me think harder than I planned to. Great discourse.
This was great analysis, I'm obsessed with her musically but incessantly disappointed by her actions. One thing I would say though is you kind of did her dirty re Dr Luke. She definitely knows what he did and would love to be rid of him but she signed an unfavourable contract as a teenager. She has said that he took credit for songs he had no involvement in and that she can't escape her contract. She always takes the comments back or deletes her tweets but I'm sure she wouldn't be associated with him if she had the choice.
It's so strange to me to think of what my life might have looked like being raised by my white parent? I'm biracial right, white dad (absentee mostly), black mom. Very proud and comfortable in my blackness. I think of the future generation as the life I wish my mom could have, that I could have had. I wonder if white was my default and norm if I would have been less black first, ya know?
Your white dad was a deadbeat? Lol if you were raised white you would be different depending on how politically aware your white parent would be, j Cole, kaepernick, Alicia keys, Obama moms were white and they didn't become doja..so i blame it on doja herself..
"she makes music with black women that she wouldn't have hung out with in high school" that she COULDN'T have hung out with in hs bc hot girl meg and the other popular black girls wouldn't have hung around her crunchy white bf
And this right here is the gag- in middle/high school, black women who don’t align with traditionally black culture or ideals are othered and ostracized. And when they grow up, y’all wonder why they don’t feel a sisterhood. Should she capitalize off of black culture in her adulthood? No- but stop acting as if “hot girl Meg” wouldn’t have made her feel like shit for not listening to r&b/rap, understanding the lingo, or not liking certain sports or cuisines.
@@shanchip1 this right here is why I wanna see FD tackle mixed race issues just to see what he says. There is a f*cked up problem that happens when you raised by a parent if a different race then you and you catching it from both sides. Aint no excuse to link up with white supremacy but it does twist things.
@@shanchip1 Well said. Too many people alienate biracial individuals in cultures across the world and then wonder why those same people don't represent their specific culture.
"people confuses Beyoncé work ethic with her being light skin." you hit the nail on the head with this one. her being lightskin took her to some places but this woman had to knock walls down with her bare hands to stay in the game for 20+ years in the music industry.
She also had wealthy parents. A mom that was dressing her to look the most desirable. A dad who wss her manager. Yes she worked but not even White artists have the privileges she had. I would say she is similar to Michael Jackson but like if the Jackson 5 already came from money. Lol
Also are we forgetting that Beyonce's own FATHER said she had light skinned privileged and they hired darker skinned women in Destiny's Child to make Bey stand out more?
@@breannajames7896 That's gross af
@@miamor8663 Mathew Knowles also confessed that the ONLY reason why he dated Tina was that he thought she was a White woman. He said he preferred White women in the 60s despite being attacked by racist White men.
@@breannajames7896 yep!
Pink was "forced " by her 1st albums production team to be a R&B artist. I believe she didn't like being made a puppet. So her subsequent albums she made the rock pop music she really liked.
Yes, the bling era/post-bling era was strange. Everybody had to make hip hop and club music even if they didn’t want to. As soon as they took control of their music, they made much better album. Ke$ha is another example of this.
@@jcnot9712 Kesha’s first album was pop to the core so idk bout that one lol. But yes they had the suburban kids outchea on every hip hop track especially as features lol
You are 100% correct. That's precisely what occurred.
Very true. I remember her going more into this when she did her MTV Diaries episode (anyone else remember when MTV was actually good lol).
And that album didn’t even sound like the other R&B albums released that same year.
"Doja Cat makes music for black women that she wouldn't have hung with in high-school!" You could have said this and ended the video 🤣
Thing is I don’t think her audience is BW though. I think her appeal is to white people, esp since she doesn’t date black guys + that Tiny Chat scandal. She lost a lot of support that she won’t easily win back. But maybe that’s just me
@@ninagrace-lee8323 nah her audience is bw although she does have white appeal as well
@@TheSkyrimps3 she wouldn't be so big if she didn't have white appeal so it's really not a stretch to say her appeal isn't rly bw. Blk ppl like kid Cudi but his audience is mostly white at a concert.
@@mweeming good point. As well as playboi carti.
Her audience can honestly be both because her personality is quirky and weird which a good amount of black girls can relate to and also some white women can too. I think she appeals to both black women and white women.
The point you made about "my product is blackness" really made me stop and think for a moment about the reasons why I subscribe to you and some of your black TH-cam colleagues (T1J, foreign, Khadija, etc.) and why I am here to listen and learn. I grew up in the north of the UK, and according to the census, the local county I grew up in is 98.9% white out of about 150k people, and the 1.1% are most probably Asian.
I know it must feel trivial to keep having to explain these basic concepts to white people on what must be obvious to anyone who lives in a diverse community, but for us folks who missed out on those experiences by growing up in all white communities (what I now know to be white habitus thanks to you), we really need these concepts explaining to us from people who experience it, and for that I really appreciate the work you do
I had exactly the same response. I grew up in a borough of NW London that was very mixed - the kids at my school were around a third Black, a third South Asian, and a third white - but where I live now in the south of England is majority white and I have a limited number of Black friends or really any people of colour in my life. And while I'm not usually consciously aware of it, I'm definitely drawn to creators who offer perspectives other than ones I'm used to hearing. I didn't really think about how that makes their Blackness (or whatever other trait they might have that's different to any I possess) their "product", but that totally makes sense.
@@vcrmchl Funny you mention NW London, I moved to Brunel University in London in 2003 and spoke to POC folks for the first time at 18 years old. Mad isn't it! (but true)
I learnt so much from those guys in my uni halls of residence, particularly with the sharing of food and cooking experiences. They took the time to explain their culture to me, for which I am forever indebted. They made me fried chicken, smoked fish, jollof rice, breadfruit and plantains (to name a few).
And for anyone interested, in return I cooked them an English roast dinner from time to time and I can report that they often liked the Yorkshire Puddings with gravy, but did not care for the cauliflower cheese bake 🤣
This was the top comment when I watched this video, and I am glad because I too had about the same response.
Same, from northern England originally. I'll be honest I've known very few black people in my life. I'm acutely aware if I'm listening to black music for example, especially if it's particularly politically charged and angry that I'm consuming 'blackness' in a way that is at least worthy of reflection. If I feel catharsis listening to Killer Mike expressing his anger about police brutality, am I simply rubbernecking? I honestly don't know.
Speaking of blackness and how it’s perceived I'd like someone to do a deep-drive on the similarities and differences between Keke Palmer and Zendaya's careers. This may be one of the clearest examples of how colorism plays out in Hollywood. They were both child-stars, but their mainstream popularity is very different.
For Doja, it’s hood cosplay. Kinda cringed at her feature with French Montana where she was rapping about being a “hood rat bitch” & fucking up her edge control. Knowing bits and pieces about her background, it’s easy to see through that, but knowing that her audience is also super broad and white, they eat that up. Your point on racialized urban Blackness as a product, for Doja creates mass appeal while
also having her still maintain a distance from the ratchetness she strategically performs.
I agree she grew up in suburban Los Angeles with her white half of the family. Sadly it ain’t her fault, her father is incompetent pos for abandoning her
Perfectly said...
well said man .
Worst part is she killed that feature and had the best verse
@@snakeswithhats1913 that's the worst part?? sounds like the best part to me.
an observation that stuck me while watching this: there's no doubt in my mind that if someone asked the average person in my peer group (white girls in college) who considered themselves a fan of doja's music "how do you feel about doja cat's problematic behavior?" - they'd have no clue what behavior that question was referencing. they might be familiar with the recent 17 year old boy debacle, but certainly most wouldn't have heard anything about any controversy related to race or Blackness.
just an insight i found interesting with regards to what different groups of people deem "important" and how the ways that information travels as a result end up affecting the set on information people end up with, which feeds right back into the first thing, and - you get the point.
have been a fan since i first stumbled on your "break bread" video back when that came out - keep up the good work.
yep, um, guilty as charged -- I had no idea about any of this until I saw this video :(
I think I found her randomly because of Rico Nasty, but when the stuff about the chat rooms came out, I can honestly say I wasn't shocked. Like FD said, she just gave off underlying vibes that she wouldn't have hung out with us in normal social situations. Although she would have been best friends with this one girl I went to school with. She was darker than me, but only listened to white artists, was only attracted to Robert Pattinson types, and one time straight up said she wished she was white. We were in different friend groups so I never bothered to explore where that came from tbh.
I was still a fan of some of her songs, but that vibe never went away after all this time.
To be fair most people really don't care about celebrities and listen to what they like without even knowing the celebs namw
Big brain moment
why would white girls be worried about her “issues” relating to blackness?
I remember having seen an interview where Pink said she was uncomfortable with her misinterpretation as a woman of color but her label pushed her that way and she had no power. It wasn’t until she was a bit more established that she felt she could portray her real self (punkish). It’s the same interview in which she talks about her beef with Christina Aguilera on the Lady Marmalade set.
That's nice, at least she wasn't purposely blackfishing.
I wonder how mainstream and black culture would have reacted to lizzo if she was lighter-skinned. So much of her career has been defined by the insane amount of harassment she gets being a black plus-size woman. I wonder if she receives the same amount of hate if she was “racially ambiguous” or if she would receive more support from the black community if she were darker skin.
It’s mostly fat phobia being a black plus sized woman has to be terrifying especially in the media, they chew her up just for breathing. But i do believe if she was lighter people wouldn’t go so hard on her
Weirdly, I almost think it’d be worse… here me out. As a plus size, dark black woman myself, people feel a sort of comfort in it, not like it’s true, but they feel (and screw Azealea Banks for pointing it out in an incorrect way), that allows her to almost be a big momma, thus the love that say an Aretha got before. What bothers people about Lizzo is she’s not a big, black, ‘desexualized’ woman. Lizzo is sexual and plus size and darker skinned all together.
I think they’d have a problem with a more racially ambiguous Lizzo type because her skin tone could be considered more threatening to the “who we consider attractive” norms.
Yeah misogynoir + fatphobia is a crazy ass combo
It’s definitely a matter of her weight first and foremost.
@@dnikkithatsame5990 I get it. But I don't think so. We have big white women on magazines covers, in sexual positions and big women like Tess Holiday who has millions of fans and dollar's, when black women make up the obesity population, and were made fun of for it, so you think they would get those positions.
I don’t like her on a personal level however I can’t deny that the women is talented! 🤦🏽♂️ I’ll hear a song, fall in love with it , then find out it’s by her lol. But it’s clear she not for black people but quick to say Nigga in her music. Her performative blackness is frustrating. You spoke all facts in this video
Do you even know her on a personal level…?
@@gretchengeorge5302 I know what she puts out there like her partaking in racist chat rooms, having very few black people in her circle, and only engaging with Black people to promote her music.. clearly I don’t know he personally but what she puts out there isn’t the greatest. Any other questions?
I always say black people need to stop pretending as if biracial people are black.
@@ronny_ron2168 well done 👏🏽👏🏽
Yes!!! Lil’ Racist Feet is very talented. When she says the “n-word”, it always has hard “er” energy to me.
I feel like when you're talking about 'dark-skinned' black women what you actually mean is unambiguously black women rather than actually dark-skinned black women because... a couple of the women you cite pass the paper bag test, as fucked up as that phrase is.
Ya like Tyra!
Lol yes, I always considered both Tyra and Monica as light-skin when I younger.
Yeah he says “Racially unambiguous” interchangeably at one point.
I’m more shocked that a comment containing a curse word made it through the TH-cam mods 😮
@@cyn7993 A lot of comments containing curse words make it through because they're not directing the curse at anybody to insult them.
As a weird person myself, it is totally unsurprising to me that people with the unique brains to make innovative music (like kanye and doja cat) also make weird decisions in their social lives and have strange political opinions.
Expect the unexpected, for better and worse.
Don't forget, they both like white folks. Props to Doja cat, she's half white
@@suzygirl1843 they are subservient to white people literally, i was convinced after that vid of kanye holding ribs and some other food while yuppies eat from his hands in the back of a limo
Nothing about her music is innovative
@@blodiaaa6990 yeah i mean kind of, its odd hypersexual trap pop but not super groundbreaking now at all
I definitely wouldn’t put Doja on the same level as Kanye.
She churns out hypersexual pop melodies that are always going to make waves on the charts (nothing wrong with that either, make your money), but she’s not out here redefining the industry or pushing herself sonically. She’s having her moment until the next young upstart takes the stage.
“I critique the things I like!”
Goddamn I hate having to defend myself when I critique things I like.
As if we’re supposed to just stare or listen dumbfounded and let shit just wash over us without thinking about it.
I'm excited for that biracial discourse video because as a black and white biracial person, the discourse is especially infuriating. I will never argue that I have the same experience as a monoracial Black person. But I am still Black. I am also white and also mixed. All those things are true. I understand I have a level of privilege due to my light skin but I also will never be treated like or seen as white due to my non-european features. I think mixed/biracial people have valuable insights to bring to conversations about race but it's often diminished by people (monoracial or multiracial) who diminish race to being either/or. As the population of mixed people in the US increases, it's a conversation we need to have. I do not wish to speak over the experiences of monoracial Black people, especially darker-skinned Black people because I can't understand their experience fully just as they can't understand mine. However, I think mixed people deserve to be listened to about our unique experiences at the intersections of different races. I hope that you speak to mixed people in your biracial discourse video like you've spoken to people with experiences outside of yours in your other videos.
Doja cat always read me as Donald's kinda femme parallel of the "weird black girl who glo'd up and never really fw black people as a passive aggressive revenge" I still think shes talented af but like you said a lot has to do with upbringing and roots and what's reinforced in and out of home. Also shes a big memer as a younger millenial
“Weird black girl who glo’d up and never really fw black ppl as a passive aggressive revenge “ 😂👍🏼
If Doja is a black woman Klay Thompson, Blake Griffin and Steph Curry are handsome strong black men!
@@Pbbbb they are
@@SmittyWerbenJagermannJensen great just wanted to make sure those are the preference
@@Pbbbb they’re all black. I don’t really understand the point you’re trying to make.
Steph is definitely black because both of his parents are black.
I saw Doja Cat perform at a small venue in 2018, probably under a year after her song “Moo” blew up, for like 15 bucks. She did a lot of weird stage banter, which was my first time seeing her interact with an audience. It’s weird to see how much and how little she’s changed, because her attitude and actions have stayed the same, but her fame has greatly escalated. The stuff she did online or to a small crowd back then doesn’t fly now, and she pretty much always defends it, which shouldn’t be the case in many instances. I’m not going to say she’s a horrible person at all, but she hasn’t hashed out her own personal issues, and they’ve carried with her.
What kinda things did she say to them??
I wanna know too
what she say? 👀
👀
All banter but no receipts. Innocent till proven guilty.
I once played a game with friends, where we put on the entire all-time So Fresh playlist and skipped every problematic artist. We didn’t get to listen to very many songs lol. At a certain point ya just gotta like the music or not, unfortunately.
It’s the one area where Spotify not paying artists fairly works well, cos you can listen without feeling you’re financially rewarding them.
Lmao Spotify.
Snakish
18:08 is a perfect summary of how i view doja cat in light of each new antic. “Blacker in her music than she is in her personal life”
She's 1 foot in and 1 step out. Whites live vicariously through them since YesJoulez and Iggy Azalea couldn't succeed in the black rap and hip hop space
More like "Black" in a stereotypical way. iykwim
The video that kicked me in the teeth about "consuming black content" was Erykah Badu and Common's "Love of My Life" video. I loved that it was an homage to Common's (Sense) song, "I used to Love H.E.R." So when the video came out for Badu's song and there was the part where she was the DJ on the stage, turned around and saw an entirely white audience, I was like, Oh, that me. 😬
You say Beyonce is when dark skinned black women went out of vogue, but I think Jennifer Lopez did it. Once America saw that black women aesthetics could be sucesfully assimilated by non black women, it was a wrap.
I say kinda but tbh Jennifer never was a HUGE star or known for her talent as an actress or singer. She was maybe celebrated on black circles but mainstream commodification was not heavy on her
@@signifiedbsides1129 It wasn't about her singing and acting though. It was about the fact that she had a big ass. The way white media propped her up so much back in the day you coulda fooled me. Access Hollywood and Entertainment Tonight and all those white celebrity outlets consistently talked about Jennifer Lopez and how big her ass was. Big asses were not a thing for white people until Jennifer Lopez blew into town.
@@signifiedbsides1129 Not sure what exactly you mean by being a "huge" star, but Jennifer Lopez was pretty big in the late 90s-early 00s. She also had an impact on how beauty standards were thought of, effectively popularising (or helping to popularise) the "wide hips, big butt" body type. Also, she pretty much made the "spicy Latina" trope popular again in US media O.o
Jennifer Lopez is massively successful in Latin America and considered an icon within our diaspora though, to quote Wikipedia: “Lopez is considered a pop culture icon, and is often described as a triple threat entertainer. With a cumulative film gross of US$3.1 billion and estimated global sales of 70 million records, she is considered the most influential Hispanic entertainer in North America. In 2012, Forbes ranked her the world's most powerful celebrity, and the 38th most powerful woman in the world. Time listed her among their 100 most influential people in the world in 2018. Her most successful singles on the US Billboard Hot 100 include "If You Had My Love", "I'm Real", "Ain't It Funny", "All I Have", and "On the Floor". For her contributions to the recording industry, she has a landmark star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and has received the Billboard Icon Award and the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award, among other honors.” She’s about as A-List as a celebrity can get.
@@cartilageheadtalkin big numbers
About 9:30, where you're talking about your appeal being your "blackness". I agree with what you're saying, but I think there's also another dimension to it. You're a black American, and I like your content specifically because it gives me insights into American culture as a Brazilian immigrant. I think you should check out how other countries treat race, specially ones that have parallel histories to the US like Latin/South America. I'm not saying other places are better or worse, but there are some things that I believe are uniquely American that you might assume are the same everywhere, the the one drop rule that you mentioned.
YES. Like constantly being reminded of your race and think in terms of being part of that particular race all the time
As a latina from the caribbean yes to this! I have lived in US territory for long time, but I still experience race in a different way than they do in the US. My entire family is VERY mixed, but we dont have any "one race" relative. Everyone that is still alive is mixed. Some of us have light skin, some of us have dark skin, the majority are in between, and defining what my race is has always been complicated. I am me, I am dominican, and i am a mix of cultures and races. If I had to pick one i would pick black, as my music, food, and many traditions come from the african side. I speak spanish, but I cant say that i feel close to spain whatsoever, so I have never felt white. So weird
As a huge fan of hers, I truly think Doja Cat has had multiple opportunities for growth and has not taken them.
One of the reasons I continue to (cautiously) enjoy Cardi B as an entertainer is because she actually has shown growth on some level. Problematic as she may be, she at least engages in dialogue with people who call her out in order to learn to do better.
Doja seems to take after her idol Nicki Minaj in that she responds to criticism and call outs with immaturity, instead of trying to understand the harm she contributes to.
I really want better for both of them.
Whewww the way cardi deals with criticism is public and messy BUT i’ll give it to her shes really engaged with political and social issues outside of her foolishness
I really wish I could just forget about the messiness of all three of these women. I love them all so much, but it's just all so messy. It's always such a reality check when I defend them because I do be defending them because I want to believe they're always trying to better themselves, as we all should be.
@@kidawesomeness123 she knows nothing about political issues she be getting it all wrong and it kills me fr she needs to drop music instead of all this other nonsense
@@ievolcisum honestly when u realize they’re all human beings just like us but they’re rich you would understand why they act the way they act, sometimes they defend themselves and sometimes they just be doing dumb shit like a lot of us when we are off social media
Cardi B doesn't take criticism well. She was literally arguing with the Shade Room because they are not bowing down to her orders and pushing narrative that she wants to the public. She has done this to other black female bloggers, she literally doxxed 'blacktea blog (also owned by a darkskinned bw)' and called her ugly, just as she did to the Shade Room owner. Cardi has a weird tendency of going after black female owned blogs and she never keeps the same energy for white owned publications. Cardi literally calls her own fans dumb. Stop f*cking coddling Cardi, she far from being mature
This makes me guess that in Hollywood spaces, there's too much casual intermingling of minors with adults. I don't even mean in a romantic sense; just too many cases of children being talked to like adults
Oof, this hits. In the "real world" it's practically common sense that a teen 10 years younger than you is *not* your friend or your buddy. Idk if any grown adult who'd confide in a 17 y/o...like...why? What valuable insight or emotional comfort could you expect to obtain from a teenager? And the conversation between Doja and this kid very obviously wasn't in any sort of mentorship context (at least not for the kid, lol). I also think this situation is telling of how the lines between minors and adults aren't as clear in Hollywood and it's definitely food for thought.
Doja is the prime example of the saying "you can tell when a Black person was raised by a white mother."
And I know you may not want to hear it but it's true lol. And as someone who actually is biracial, I have no problem letting everybody and their mama know this because being a voice of reason in the online biracial discourse is my thing. It is what it is lol.
Raised by a white mother and abandoned by the black father. When will black men be held accountable for creating broken homes and in extension broken biracial children...
Thank you for keeping it real, Kay. We need more biracial people like you🙌🏾‼️
its true unfortunately, because of patriarchy, mothers would be more present and involved in their kids lives, you subconsciously internalized whatever things your mother believed to an extent where as you grow you have to work to unlearn. It makes a lot of sense, and idk why people act like its such a controversial opinion to have.
#faxxxx I'll do you one better... you can tell when a black person wasn't raised around other folks who look like them 🤷🏾♀️ if you kno, then you kno 💯
Yeah I went to hs with a lot of biracial b/w girls and there was an obvious difference between the ones with black moms and the ones with white moms
"people think you can't be a culture vulture if you're black" that either there! That's what gets me about her! Thank you for saying this!
I have never heard of people thinking Pink was black. Thats crazy
Same , she always looked like a whole Punkish White Lady to me....
I also don't remember her being "urban" persay.... but maybe I was too young 🤔.... 🤷🏽♂️
That's news to me.
I was very confused when I saw a video of hers for the first time. I think it was "There you go", which I only knew from the radio before and listening to it, I had just assumed that she was black. But it wasn't a big deal to me, finding out that she was white. I just wasn't expecting that. 🤷🏾♀️
@@MsReveur I looked up the video you were talking about... for me at least, I still don't think she looked black at all, so I am curious why fd Said she was known for blackishing...
Though I will say , I've never heard this sound outve p!nk , I thought she was just Punk Pop , but yet here she was Givin Tlc Vibes lol so I guess I could see how that's a bit odd
@@hezeriahquinary-halliwell8635I remember being very young (4-6) am my first time seeing her I had to double take because she kinda looked like Keyshia Cole w a perm to kid me.
Kanye 🤝 Doja cat
Being FD’s problematic favs
Love this, but one thing. Whilst I know that Doja is an American artist, it occurs to me also in the description of Trevor Noah that sometimes Africans are perceived as downplaying or inauthentically performing their blackness in American contexts, when they are been authentic to their own personal or cultural expression of blackness.
Expectations and rules for how you're supposed to be... different ones from every side.
Trevor Noah gets paid in American dollars. When he talks about the Black American experience, particularly the injustices we experience, the appearance is that he is speaking (to a white audience) for us (Black Americans). He's not. That's why he is heavily scrutinized.
Doja cat is Biracial, not African.
@@HardReadSerRose they mean Trevor Noah, who is South African.
@@HardReadSerRose her dad is african
I remember when Pink first came out they promoted her as a light skinned black woman or a biracial woman and she deny it at the time. After her first R&B album, she went Pop. She did say in one of her songs that it was LA Reid's idea to promote her that way.
While I like R&B Pink, I do know that L.A. Reid controlled her artistry, and she was not happy. I wish she was more honest about why she does not want to sing her R&B songs no more💯
@@JulianSteve Although I think she did great at R&B, I think she preferred singing in the soft rock genre. I don't think she really wanted to be a Pop performer.
L.A Reid is just crazy for this, taning a white girl to sell RnB?
@@fideletamo4292 Man, the deception in the entertainment industry knows no limits. Although there has been white R&B singers for some time, not all of the made to pretend to be racially ambiguous. Teena Marie, Lisa Stanfield and even Joss Stone presented themselves as white.
“My opinions on Pop music shouldnt be paid attention to” no Fiq give me your top 3 doja songs right now
I NEED to know
Whooaaooowohuwooo! lol
Addiction, You right, Woman, Options, Imagine- oh just 3?
@@heiress. take it back even further lol moo, Candy, juicy, so high, no police, right side ( even though she’s just featured). I love her problematic ass lolol
@@dionjones6300 why doesn't he say so?!?!?
Use to love Doja as a person, when I 1st found her. Now I just like her music She’s not really likable person honestly she’s just talented and if it wasn’t for her talent she’d be off the radar 🤷🏾♂️
Exactly! I feel like she should be held more accountable
Her talent? Maybe her skintone, her white fanbase, and her pretty privilege? Not denying her talent tho but if she was normani, she won't be there no more...lol..
Yeah just her talent
I agree with you that the reason why the discourse hasn't come up concerning Doja Cat has to do with colorism and featurism.
Agree with these concepts playing into the discourse, but there has been PLENTY during the last few years (just maybe less critically bc she hasn’t actually spoken to black issues.) she also doesn’t claim to have her finger on the pulse of the community or claim different kinds of black culture for herself which other artists (good ex is drake) has done. I think claiming their hasn’t been discourse is basically putting blinders on to black women who have been creating content on her specifically.
When you mention that part of your appeal is blackness I absolutely understood what you mean. I grew up as a Latino male who while not particularly browned skin I still grew up as non-white passing. As a millennial black man I absolutely value your perspective not only because you have earned a degree but because of the experiences you have. I absolutely follow you for your blackness in the same way I follow contrapoints for her non-conformity in terns of gender norms. While it's not exactly one for one its in essence similar. I value your perspective and I understand the context its coming from. While I love Doja Cats songs from now on I will not ignore the implications that her views have on her music. Please continue doing what you're doing and don't forget that we're all trying to figure it out in this insane world we find ourselves in.
In your Drake video, when you said his success is due to his music being accessible to everyone, you don’t have to be black to be into Drake, etc… Doja is the female version of that. Hypothetically, they could be any race performing the same music with the same success because they never explicitly or even implicitly mention things that are central to the black experience
doja catches more flack because her preference is caucasian dudes . and that's refreshing in a world where black dudes are prima donna colorists.
i don't find that one slip up bizarre . i don't get the hoopla.
You don't have to be black to be into any artist
She's said the n word in songs so I don't think that's particularly true tbh. Yet so has Drake. That sort of success comes from brandishing the culture and hiding your hands when you're called out for not helping the community or being called a "sell-out." For example Nipsey Hussle was a community leader in a way Amala and Audrey could never be, even though they have much more resources to do so.
Just saying the n-word alone packs the argument about not speaking to a black experience up.
Also, it's okay if you don't like it, but black artists don't have to speak to the "central black experience" to make valid art. We shouldn't pigeonhole black artists in that way. Let her make her fun pop music.
@@LetterNumber we’re saying…by just saying the n-word…it represents…the black experience? Wtf are you talking about😭😭😭😭😭i dont even like kodak black but that man made a whole project on the issues in haiti and that nigga is the worst of us💀💀. Doja aint touched on a single black experience apart from “niggas aint shit”, the irony💀💀💀
I'm very excited to see your video on the Mixed/Biracial discourse. I agree that this basic understanding of the one drop rule is exhausting. And I don't want to say first world problems, but so much of the discourse is centered around media representation, which is important, however most Black people aren't Hollywood. Denying mixed people's Blackness seems real harmless when it's Zendaya, but what about a regular person in Alabama. Also, why are people so committed to these absolutes? I can very easily say a mixed person is Black and simultaneously know they're mixed and recognize the privilege that comes with that. Not to mention some mixed people just look straight up Black.
Finally, in my experience, the discourse has a generational divide. I'm the youngest of the millennials and most people (in real life) that are my age and older don't have a problem with mixed people saying they're Black, in fact, some people will look at you crazy if you don't identify as Black. But I've seen a lot of Gen-Zers, including my younger sister, say that they don't see mixed people as Black. I wonder why there is that shift...
As someone who is biracial and who constantly has to remind people that "interracial relationships are still interracial even when there's no white person" (lol) I must say that people in the US gotta stop not letting biracials be biracial/mixed. And I know that may sound silly but I'm being serious. Why? *Because too many of us only want to be "Black" when we benefit from it while still reaping the benefits of being mixed and that's not okay.* Especially when people in the media are more than eager to make us the face of Blackness even if we don't have a Black parent (looking at that South African girl from Lucifer). That's not okay!
I also think a lot of people in the US don't realize how making kids (because that's when it starts - childhood) choose a racial box that isn't accurate messes with us. Because at the end of the day, not everyone is going to see you as one race. Hell, depending on your physical features and the common knowledge of those around you, not everyone will accept the racial identity you want to identify as lol! So yeah, this is why you have so many mixed people saying "I didn't know who I was as a child because I was never enough here and there" and etc.
Like seriously, people in the US need to learn to just say "mixed" and let it be that lol. And yes I keep saying the US because this is literally a problem I see in the US. Identifying as "bi/multi" outside the US is normalized in so many places and the only time it *may* be looked at funny depends on the context of the situation.
@@MrScreenplay WELL SAID here… However, I too am a Gen Z’r and I grew up with a ton of people as light or lighter than a Doja and there was ZERO controversy over their “blackness”, but it’s the YOUNGER generations now that I seem to find go out of their way to create some sort of pseudo movement in “biracial or purity politics” to hang their hat on. What’s most sus is when I spot a few people my age who occasionally join in with the foolishness of “in my day “these” people weren’t black”, I’m like, “Why you lying, why you always lyin… 🎶I’m lookin forward to F.D. making a piece on this conversation…
@@annoyedbyyourface I wish I had more time to respond to this comment at the moment, but I will try to touch on the major points. I have known many mixed Black people who DO NOT opt in and out of Blackness. I've seen some who do, but I'm not going to say all mixed people can't identify as Black because of that. Mixed people who want to identify as Mixed, I respect their decision, and will address them as such. It's not a problem.
However, you keep mentioning the US and I'm glad you did. I'm going to say something a lot of people don't want to hear. I don't think it's appropriate or respectful to come to the US and tell Black Americans they need to reframe how they see Blackness. I understand that many other countries categorize Black people and mixed people separately, and I respect that, and I would never go to another country and tell them they have to categorize Mixed people as Black. Black Americans have our own unique history, and we have our reasons for considering mixed people as Black. And it's not that we're brainwashed as many people like to insinuate. That is insulting. I won't go into all the details, but in short, mind your business. Please respect our decisions and know they were made with purpose,
Well said
The P!nk thing... her 2nd album forward much more resembles who she was as an artist before she got signed. Her first producer was LA Reid. She even jokes about it in a song "LA told me 'you'll be a pop star. All you have to change is everything you are.'"
Ever since Doja went on her unhinged rant against the YT’er who makes plastic surgery videos, I’ve lost a lot of respect for her. I can understand being upset if you don’t want to be talked about, but the person in question gets plastic surgery herself, isn’t malicious, and Doja sent her fan base to that woman. Like whether she’s likes it or not, she is in a position of power and should be more careful. Crazy intense fans stalk and harm people.
Also, she came off the exact opposite of what she intended. It made her look defensive.
Bingooooo, bet hey, he loves doja cat 🤷🏽♀️
Yeah because she’s literally had everything done that was mentioned in the video
The youtuber is annoying af. She's totally making stuff up about people's appearances i totally get why doja was mad. Pretty sure you'd be mad if someone was making false assumption about every inch of your body.
@@Alicegab300 if you have or not have it it's annoying, but when you are popular you just don't fight with low level people. All popular celebs detach themselves from responding to controversy/ commentary by random people because that just reduce your value.
Lorry Hill talks out of her ass, has no medical background or expertise in plastic surgery and is making money lying and pandering to insecure ugly people. Doja is immature af but I think she was right in that situation. Imagine someone scrutinizing and hyper analyzing every inch of your body. I would've been angry af too.
It's always so interesting because dark skin in the US is not dark skin everywhere else. Its relative but coming from the Caribbean and the UK so many of the women mentioned would have been considered light skin or brown. Race is political and speaks more to your relationship with the state than anything else, but the nuances of colourism within race is so interesting to me. I will also say Beyoncé kinda inadvertently killed the dark skin desirable woman trope in media too, gone are the types of black women who are seen as desirable in films like Belly or Do the right thing, the black women who are visually propped up as beautiful are generally light skin now and close to her aesthetic.
Hell no, lol lupita, Viola Davis, sza, Aja Naomi King, kiki layne, Jodie Turner smith, little simz, Yaya dacosta, Kéké palmer, tika sumpter, Issa Rae, ari Lennox, naturi naughton, Angela Bassett, rapsody etc are black women who are either famous or played love interests in great movies or TV shows...so i don't buy into the Beyoncé made darkskin women outdated speech cuz it's not true!
@@fideletamo4292 agreed. I think it’s a bit of a lazy take that doesn’t take into account who is popular in hindsite. Also like wut lol at Whitney being dark skinned. Lupita is dark. Viola is dark. Whitney is not dark.
Lol not the scapegoating of Beyonce
@@fideletamo4292 None of those women you listed come close to Beyonce’s fame, wealth or success. Lets keep it real, the most successful black pop sensations these days are light skinned and usually blonde. 🤷🏾♀️
@@gee_emm that's not the point lol, Beyoncé is not just famous cuz she's lightskin, how many lightskin black women or even white women are as rich or successful as Beyoncé? Or Oprah? Beyoncé is probably the greatest entertainer since Michael Jackson, the Lauryn Hill, brandy, Mary j, Missy, Ciara had their moment but Beyoncé is more versatile than all of them...there are still darkskin women who are doing great in pop culture so saying Beyoncé made it Harder is nonsense
That part about Drake hit me like Joe Jackson! Drake DOES perform blackness! He NEVER uses his platform to address social issues that impact the black community. He claims to love BBW women, but have you ever seen him with one? He keeps popping up in the DM's of underage white girls. He gives off culture vulture vibes! Damn, FD! I can't un-know this!
Girl he doesn't have to do all this to be black he dated all kind of women from Serena Williams to sza...yall are missing the point
Drake has dated MANY black women of all shades tho
@@fideletamo4292 Okay. What point am I missing? I said he claims to love BBW, but we've never publicly seen him with one. (You know that means Big Black Women, right?)
So, why'd you bring up Serena & SZA?)
Have you ever seen him use his platform to bring awareness to issues that impact the black community? (Mentioning police brutality in a barbershop with Lebron James doesn't count as activism.) You can still be a fan. Just be honest.
@@geminiaxelrod4592 since when is an artist supposed to be an activist to be black? Was nat King Cole an activist? No..they are entertainers not activists unlike doja Drake is not out there singing dundo nothing...you want all the mixed black artist to be j Cole to be considered black? What about the full black celebrities who Never took a political stand like will Smith, or Michael Jordan who said republicans bye jordans too, are they less black? I'm honestly asking...
You should check FDs video on Drake if you haven't already. He dives a little bit deeper into that.
Her performativeness was HIGHLY telling in her "Vegas' Music video (the song for the Elvis movie). I swear she was only a step behind looking like Zoe Saldaña in the Nina Simone movie, lol.
I think the reason the whole biracial debate comes up is because this occurrence is pretty damn common.
>Mixed girl
>Raised by white mom
>With little to no exposure to black people
Will lead to a doja cat situation damn near 100% of the time if the girl is light enough.
It really speaks to how much a person's environment shapes them.
Agreed. The vast majority of biracial people with Black heritage are the raised by non-Black women. There are a lot of these people leading diversity and inclusion efforts in corporate America. They are the "preferred Black".
@@productioninquiry8937 Seriously, sooooo many of the most visible black female celebs were raised by their white mothers... and it shows in how they interact with blackness.
Halle Berry, Mariah, Alicia Keyes, Rashida Jones, Paula Patton, Zendaya... just off the top of my head... I believe all of those women, save Alicia, are with white men
@@jlcrimm1 Mariah Carey has dated a rainbow and married a Black man. I have no problem with it. I get exhausted by the desire to heap Black expectations and identity on mixed race women.
@@productioninquiry8937 🙄🥱🙄 Gurl bye. Unmm, we got skin in the game. These ladies who ain't abt the culture really get chosen to represent us dispportionately, so yea, we's gonna comment. Also Ms. Basic... expectations come from all sides but ya only salty abt the black ones #sus-AF 🤔 People should be able to comfortably express multiple facets of their identity #obvie but that's not what your lo basico comment said 🤷🏾♀️
@@chanson8508 It's visibly and phenotypically Black people who are racing to claim biracial people with Black parentage. White people don't behave this way.
At this point, I’m going to continue enjoying her music and pretend like her social media presence doesn’t exist. Separating the art from the artist yaddah, yaddah, yaddah…
U have too the majority of celebrities are problematic
Same 😂😂
I do that so often I don't even know anything about Doja other than her music.
@@theman9048 people are problematic my guy, definitely celebrities
I wouldn't give her money though, personally. I'll listen to her on TH-cam (with adblock), sure, or something else where I'm not spending anything and she's not getting anything. But the way I see it, life's too short and shit's too expensive to support or waste money on someone who I don't think deserves my money, who I don't like as a human being and who doesn't like people like me.
The way I see it, separating the art from the artist is one thing (I mean I like Lovecraft and I'm pretty sure he'd hate me more than Doja Cat), but financially supporting a problematic (living) artist seems like it's rewarding that. Like letting yourself get exploited, on some level. To me, anyway.
I kinda used to listen to doja way before she blew up and her music did have r&b / hip hop vibes so I don’t think her old self would think she’s making ghetto music now, agree with everything else tho
She'd probably think she's watered down.
@@kimberleywilliams7802 facts
Really appreciate you calling out that your product is blackness. Your channel is one that I comment on more than any others because of how you spark intellectual conversation, and I come here for a lot of different discourse topics (music, masculinity, etc), but, just like with your recent main channel video about black male objectification, I realize that I also come here to hear from a source that I enjoy to engage outside of blackness, about blackness.
Like Carlton Carter, I'm also really excited to see the video on being biracial. I'm assuming it'd only be tangentially connected to my experience, but even so. I'm Dominican and I grew up in the DR, but I was raised by my white grandmother, and I spent a lot of time online instead of among my peers, so I feel culturally adrift. I was bullied in elementary for speaking english, but I never felt American, and I never really learned what it felt like to be Dominican, with a ton of other layers under it which makes me feel like an appropriator by trying to participate in my own culture outside my country. Although a better way to say it would be that I feel alienated from my cultural heritage because I'm only now discovering it for the first time due to everything that made me lock myself in my room from middle school onward.
Please don't listen to 'em. Your culture is your birthright and those "gatekeeping" attitudes are ironically serving the goals of colonizers and white supremacists, which is to ultimate erase certain cultures.
I was late to hop on the doja cat train, only got to know her after she released juicy. Immediately hopped off right after the alt right chat room scandal, because that clearly looked like raceplay kink to me and I don't f*ck with that. All in all I absolutely agree that she gives off opportunistic vibes when it comes to her black popstar persona and I'm one of those people who has difficulties separating art from its' creator. And that's coming from a former member of the beyhive
Why former? Genuinely asking not trying to be rude.
With black is king Beyoncé dabbled in being culture-vulturey as well. I'm an African immigrant living in Europe, so I'm pretty sensitive to African cultures being appropriated for monetary gain, clout etc. and knowing of the culture wars between the diasporas of Black African descent in the US I'd rather not open that can of worms 🙃
@@KandeeClouds please open that can of worms. I genuinely want to hear your thoughts Layed out.
@@KandeeClouds there's no such thing as culture vultury among black people, paying homage is not being a culture vulture, tons of modern afrobeat is dancehall and old afrobeat was jazz mixed with African music...i don't understand this culture vulture speeches among black people...black cultures influenced each other for decades, hip hop Comes from jamaican toast etc..
@@fideletamo4292 This 2022, it's now 'trendy' and 'edgy' to hate on everything 💀
I was a huge fan of Doja starting back around the Moo era until maybe half a year ago because of the reasons explained in this video. What I considered quirky and cute at first, soon became annoying and immature feeling. I couldn’t quite explain why or when the shift happened, maybe it was all her constant rambling and negativity being spread on her long lives? Thank you for giving a clear explanation for the feeling I was experiencing. I even felt bad about experiencing the shift in enjoying her as a former stan. At least now I can enjoy her music with little to no attachment to her person.
As much as I'd like to joke about idea that addison rae said Pum Pum, she actually said "Boom Boom Bass". lol
30%-er here! I consciously subscribe to your channel for 3 reasons:
1. I like the cut of your jib, sir!
You have a well informed, well thought out take on most of the things you talk about. Even when I don't completely agree with you by the end of a video, which is rare, I completely see where you are coming from and leave the video still thinking about how I should change my thoughts because of how complellingly yours were articulated.
2. We are just similar enough that I can understand when you describe things that are unintelligible to me.
I am a white-habitus raised, cis-het millennial in the younger half of the generation who has, as have many of us, slowly become aware of all the things I don't know, essentially Bo Burnham with much less talent. So your early content as an Elder Millennial of a different race who grew up in a different part of the country filled in many the pop culture references that I "know," but as someone just a little too young or from a different cultural stream, just don't quite GET. I am to '90s hip hop and WWE as you are to metal. Lol!
3. I watch you for your blackness.
I am married to a biracial person raised in white home and schools, constantly reminded that she did not fit in. Consuming content from black creators, such as yourself, helps me grapple with and sympathize/empathize with racial issues are too close and emotional for my wife to explain or for me to comprehend. Your greater age and maturity, and the distance from the person I care most about has been helpful to my marriage in so many ways. It's also brought to mind uncomfortable things, like what stereotypes are being played out in our relationship, but that is helpful too, ...helpful to my therapist's bank account...
With channels as small as yours I feel a little bad for comodidying the interaction so much, but that's how it is, I guess. I hope I expressed the positive parts of my feelings toward you and your work clearly and in a way that brings you joy.
All ye, praise Capitalism and the commodification of our entire self into optimally consumable products and artifacts.
I really appreciate how you broke this down and got into the heart of it. I like Doja's music, but also don't feel comfortable with how she has behaved. I truly hope that she will grow as an artist and a person.
I'm not saying she's a plant, but I think her background allowed record companies to view her as someone whos not gonna overly push black and civil rights issues, thus safe in a way.
Like a female version of Drake but even less likely to ruffle mainstream/white feathers.
But why isn't there this burning urgency for black male rappers to push 'black' and 'civil rights issues'? They can rap about anything they want and date as many white and latina women as they want, no 'think pieces' will be directed their way 💀
@@Trussme96 Drake has never stepped outside of the status quo. Just stop, y'all literally give men a pass
@@AG-fg1uk what rapper didn't, atleast, put out a "woke" song after Floyd? Even Nick cannon trash ass made a song.
Also artist do community shit all the time, you're just not gonna hear about it unless it was you're community.
21 savage does a yearly school drive but the last time he was in the news was ppl trying to clown him about being from UK.
@@Trussme96I get what your saying but fareal fareal drake did grind hard to get where he is, it's just when he got there. Calling him a plant is disrespectful because he did put in the work.
Oof the race/mixed race video & comments will be interesting 🥴
There’s a lot to dissect about Doja Cat; however, I will say that I don’t believe she didn’t mess with black ppl before her career popped off.
I’ve been listening to Doja Cat since 2013/2014. When she was an underground artist her fanbase was primarily Black/Latine and was considered more of a rapper than a singer.
Her time in the LA underground scene she was more akin to rappers/artists who were similar the Odd Future archetype and made weirdo or “smoker” music. It wasn’t until she popped off that she began making more pop music (she always experimented with dance/house music).
However, her behavior is similar to many Black kids who grew up in the LA county/suburbs. I don’t believe she rejected her black side but she definitely identified with the “Alternative Black kid” sub-culture that was prominent in LA culture in the 2010s. Although some artists like Tyler the Creator have somewhat diverted from that image (he’s another one I would love to watch a video on) I believe Doja never grew out of that phase.
Definitely. I don't think she hated her blackness but she probably had a rough time with it given her upbringing and how other ppl view her for it. And not lining up with the black stereotype does not make you less black but it can cause a pressure to lean into it.
I think she always wanted a stronger connection to her black side but felt pushed out for being mixed and being a weirdo. Like how lots of the community mocked Tyler for being weird and creative which is associated with whiteness.
As someone who grew up as an “alternative black kid” in Texas, and going to an underprivileged high school for 3 years, it was definitely an experience of me not relating to majority of the black & latine kids in my school aside from the art kids, or band kids. I didn’t fully start really embracing where I came from until I was in my 11th grade year going to a suburban diverse high school… it was a culture shock for me, but it was also a moment of growth for me to showcase all facets of myself of being a black kid from the ghetto, but also being quirky, nerdy, alternative, and an overall artsy person.
I feel like thats why I do relate to Doja in that sense, and even as of recently Doechii.
i think you're right on the money with this one
Seems like you know more about doja than Fiq. His analysis is interesting because she was underground rapping and not seemingly centering whiteness as he suggested in the video.
This is correct, I am a longtime Doja fan too since 2013 and she has definitely always been making very black music, this is not a newfound fame = newfound blackness thing. But separately she has some serious identity issues with her race. She clearly needs to work on her self image and the way she acts bc she has me now embarrassed to say I am such a fan, but I am. She was so good even way before the blow up.
I'm SCREAMING at your P!nk commentary because you're so correct but I'd never realized it before. Her debut album was one of the first CDs I ever owned lol.
For a while Pink actually refused to admit she was white, I remember seeing her in an interview asked if she was biracial she was like it doesn't matter we are all human or something like that :o
The Black biracial discourse has me conflicted. It’s yet another issue that’s not being discussed with the nuance it deserves.
P.S. My unpopular opinion is that there’s way too many real world problems to worry about and too many people with careers that should be in jail for me to cancel Doja Cat for her Black daddy issues and delusional online behavior
*Edited to say Black biracial discourse because biracial could mean anything, it does not mean mixed with Black. Like what would biracial culture even be?
Gods, I wish I could like this a thousand times. It’s all window dressing as the far more substantive and crushing issues weigh down upon us. Sometimes it feels like it’s all engaged in as a way to stay “busy” and away from the real work…
Pop culture shit is easy to critique. Having substantive conversations about politics, healthcare, criminal justice etc. takes extensive knowledge and education which most of us don’t have.
Not to mention that pop culture draws attention.
Stop trying to give the biracial folk a pass.
All wrongs need to be called out. And a lot of biracial people act a fool BECAUSE they were given one too many passes as kids because of people with your mindset.
@@Bizarro69 Goodness, I feel like you put a lot of words into my mouth that I didn’t say. To me, canceling is not just calling out someone out for what they did wrong, it’s also about being deplatformed and not being allowed to influence people anymore. I’m not giving Doja Cat a pass, I called her behavior delusional. I’m just saying that when it comes to people who really need to be canceled, Doja Cat is not high on my list. She really is one of the least of Black people’s problems.
@@MelGibsonFan True, don’t wanna blame someone for not knowing something they were never exposed to
Thank you I was feeling exactly like that about her. I feel everyone forgive her so quickly...
There is biracial culture in America. They had always been and continues to be. Creole, melungeon, blue vein society… and there are constant stereotypes of how biracial ppl act and how they grow up. Because they have a distinct experience.
I agree with you. A President, a Vice President, and the "new face" of the NBA prove this ain't nothing but the truth.
Its really wierd to describe Doja Cats behavior like, *moaning and telling a bunch of white dudes to call her the n-word and making a song called "dindu nuffin"*, as a "wierd quirk".
For Real, it's not weird quirk it's racist lol...
Yeah because...wtf. how you admitting she's done BS, but pass it off as lesser offensive because you like their art. That's called enabling, and that in itself is problematic and toxic...
Like am I really hearing this...
And she's not Black, she's biracial/mixed race. That's a fact.
I love her music(being a nerdy obviously black women) but I will say that, Doja Cat is capitalizing on black culture, but is not invested in black culture. She moves through the industry and probably life as a whole white woman. I believe when she was not famous people assumed her to be full white and probably treated her as such. I think she fully understands her privilege, she simply doesn't care.
she's biracial not black
i’m so confused how you think she can move through the world as a white woman. she is obviously not fully white she doesn’t look white. she looks mixed or maybe poc
I really hope Doechii changes the game . She’s beautiful, talented ,dedicated and fresh . Sings, Raps,Dances, artistic. I feel she is THAT GIRL. She just recently collaborated with Sza and Rico which was 🔥. I’d love to hear her with Mahalia,Solange,Glorilla or Doja Cat just to put her more into the mainstream eye. She is one of the few women that doesn’t need to be carried to make a hit . Our little swamp witch has every marker to succeed on her own .
YES!!!! Doechii and Rico deserve their flowers
Scratching my head at where you listed certain celebrities as dark skin. It's a first for me to hear Tyra Banks being considered dark skinned. Especially since many considered her eurocentric due to her eye color.
I love Doja's music. She makes "weirdo music" akin to Tyler the Creator but with some Minaj-esque girlyness. Her personal life I can't speak on
Same Dion. Same😭💯
Minaj-esque .... I'm stealing that
When it comes to my favs I’m only here for their music. Their personal life is a BIG MESS
Really ? interesting take…
I was going to say this, I think a better comparison can be made with her and OF. Same quirky, black LA kid vibes. They made very problematic music back in the day and the white kids ate that shit up.
The 'my product is blackness' articulated something that has been bothering me since I picked up on the black music reactors a few years ago (I'm not gonna lie, seeing a black guy hear Down Rodeo for the first time is always gonna hit for me) (and they've been another angle into hip hop for me) but I noticed it with you and Primm as well, though Primm is I think almost explicitly selling blackness. I mean, I more or less saw it as 'black dude provides a comedic black perspective on all those movies I saw previews for but never watched growing up'. And I fuckin love Primm but I can't get away from the point that like even Donald Glover has made, about being a black entertainer in America.
But like, its a complex feeling/topic cause I wanna support you, I think you're doing good and important work. But y'know. Something something no ethical consumption, something something capitalism.
It's not unethical it's just facts, just like manga is commodified asian culture...you Can keep consuming it but it's important to be aware of this fact..
Her *mother* didn’t do right by her? What about the absent father who chose not to raise her? It’s disturbing to see her lack of connection of Black culture blamed on the parent who did choose to raise her, not on the man who would have been the one imparting that knowledge and those values.
Exactly! Wherever they go, black men create broken families yet the onus is always placed on women. When black men leave their black homes, the blame is always put on black women, and now when they abandon their mixed families, the blame is put on white women 🤣. One thing a black man will never do is hold another black man accountable (you know how they are) 🤣🤦🏾♀️. Doja cat's father would have been the best candidate to impart "that knowledge and those values" to Doja because he's the BLACK PARENT 💀. That's why there's no upward movement in the black community, black women are overburdened with playing the roles of caregiver and protector, while black men 'lay' in their femininity
Fair point, Diana. I blame both parents, especially the father because he’s the Black parent.
WTF lol she had a mixed kid she did what she could but she could do better, j Cole alicia keys Obama and kaepernick mothers were white too and they obviously did a better job..if your kid is singing dundo nuthing there's something you did wrong even as a white mother..and this has nothing to do with her father..not all the mixed kid with an absent black father go so far as dumbass doja so let's blame it on doja...and of course her mother is partially responsible..there are things kaepernick, Cole, Alicia keys moms did that doja cat mom didn't, it's a fact!
Agreeed whole heartedly. He fell short with that comment honestly. Her mother did right by her by stepping up and raising her and the mom honestly probably did the best she could 🤷🏾♀️ that deadbeat ass dad is the one who didn’t do right by her. Would’ve been more of his responsibility to make sure she was in tune with her blk side more so her mom.
Do we know that her father was a "dead beat"? If her parents weren't married and her father didn't have US citizenship, he probably had no parental rights, and his ability to get involved at all would be contingent on her mother and US immigration/customs & border policies - as well as access to financial resources to travel...
I don't know how relevant my opinion is to you, since I'm not from the USA. But Doja Cat is an international artist, so maybe I can tell you a little bit about how she's perceived in Latin América.
1:00 So right off the bat I can tell you that Doja is definitely the biggest USA pop star in my country. She did a Latin American tour in March and in my country she participated in Lollapalooza, which is the biggest music festival here. I guess you could compare it to Coachella: only the biggest stars are there. She was, by far, the most expected artist of the line up. I guess Miley Cyrus was up there with her, but if you are talking about black artists, yeah, she was the biggest one.
4:40 I mean, in her biggest song ever (Say So), in her music video, she does recuperate 70's black culture... it did seem like a genuine attempt to reconnect with black culture.
You call her "racially ambiguous" at 6:35 but as I said, her claim to blackness in her biggest music video ever is very present. Like, her shade of colour might be very light but she did declare very loudly I Am Black.
11:08 This segment was very interesting and enlightening. I would also add that, at least from a Latin American country, part of her selling point is that she is USAmerican. Not only is she black, but she's also a cool black, a "high class" black person, because she is from the USA. I don't have the proper sociological words to explain it, but it's something very easy to observe in the racism of my country. There's a difference between being black here and being black from USAmerica. I would call it "black aristocracy" or something like that. A born and raised black Latin American isn't as important as a born and raised black USAmerican. The easiest way I find to explain it is with the George Floyd death. It was all over OUR news, and we are just a country literally on the other side of the world... I'm not saying it wasn't important. What I'm saying is: people suffer from police brutality all the time here and it never makes the news. A USAmerican has to die for people here to think it's important. You get what I'm saying?
16:09 OHHHHHHH I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS.
So remember how I talked about her Latinoamérica tour?? Welp, some of you may be aware of her... Paraguay... fiasco.... remember that thing that made her tweet "i'm quitting music" and yadah yadah? (she didn't quit shit obviously)
Well, the reactions here were very diverse and very hmmmm telling! Because mostly black people and indiginous people (that's a big number of people, especially in Paraguay) have ABSOLUTELY cancelled her. People were burning her CDs (which are fucking expensive here since they are imported goods, valued in US dollars). There were public demonstrations against her.
Meanwhile, white fans had a very racist reaction of saying "fuck these Paraguay people she is still queen" (Paraguay is a country made mainly by people of colour, especially indiginous people). It sort of ties back to what I talked about before: USAmerican black people are view as more important than our own countrymen.
16:44 Oh shit I had no idea about this. That really doesn't look good for her. It almost looks like a betrayal to the other women in the industry. Katy Perry basically sacrificed her entire career to stop working with him...
I hope my comment was interesting to read as your video was to watch!
Very interesting and insightful comment.
Katy Perry flopped despite working with him in 2017 and stopped worked with not only him but all the other pop producers, she literally had mental breakdown because of flopping during her “Witness” album release date.
@@SamKreinberg "Witness" - thr album that flopped and ended her career - is precisely the one in which she stopped working with him. Sooooo. My statement (she sacrificed her career to stop working with him) still holds true 🤡
I'd just like to note, that there was definitely more than just black and indigenous people trying to "cancel" her, and she was literally getting called N*gger.... though it is also terrible that her fans were being racist back... but I still think that I'd bit is worth mentioning
@@hezeriahquinary-halliwell8635 I don't really care about what happened, I'm just talking about the /reaction/ to what happened. Unless you are from a Cono Sur country, you didn't see it first hand as I did. And in my experience, this is what happened. Indigenous fans stopped listening to her music, while I heard white and rich fans literally say things like "fuck those (insert Paraguay people slur), Doja Cat is queen"
I'm black and I don't pay attention to music industry like that. I'm satisfied with my video games just wish there more black people in different genres of games
What passes for "hip hop" or "rap" in mainstream music nowadays, is literally pop music with an "urban" edge.
tbf it's been that way since the early 2010's
*sigh* and we’ve come full circle 😭
You mean the Sam Hyde shirt stuff, right?
@@sandenson exactly that!
I saw "Moo" when it first came out and she just bulldozed me then.
I'm not crazy about all her stuff, but I think she is always brilliant.
Do you know the side eyes I get from people when I would talk about how pink came out as r&b back in the day. Even my daughter who loves pink still doesn't like to believe me when I say that. And I'm like there's video evidence.
And supposedly she was already signed with Dr Luke before the Kesha stuff became public.
I don't know if it was Beyoncé who inadvertently put a end to the rise of dark skinned or at least unambiguously black women. I would say that it was the emergence of the Kim Kardashian archetypes. But if I had to penpoint It I would say it was Christina Aguilera and even Pink. I remember very well Aguilera came out with that dark dark tan and she sounded like a traditional black women a lot of the time. Pink didn't sound like a black women but I remember people legit thinking she was either very light skinned or Puerto Rican when she dropped because her style. After that the Kardashian finished the rise of darker women entertainers off. You could start literally buying yourself a traditional black body, and after that it was over. Kinda the same thing that happened to black boy bands that rose during the 80's and 90's. Black street, boyz 2 men etc... Once executives found out that they could copy those groups with white dudes, the black boy band died out for a while.
Beyoncé is unambiguously Black and colorism in the entertainment industry existed WAAAY before her lol.
Kim Never pretended to be black unlike Christina maybe...
Beyoncé is FAR from being singlehandidly responsable for the colorism in the music industry TF 🤦🏾♂️. That shit was here decades before she was born. So, I really don't understand how she should be blamed for it. There are so many light skinned women who fell off when the sound of mainstream music changed in the mid to late 2000s. Ashanti, Mya, Christina Milian, Cassie, Amerie, Teairra Marie..... But y'all don't want to talk about it. And are acting as if being light skinned is all it takes. Being light skinned will only get you so far, just like being pretty or conventionally attractive
No, Beyonce brought back the paper bag test. It's no coincidence that after her solo career took off, record labels were no longer interested in signing darkskinned bw, they all wanted their own marketable, palatable "beyonce"
@@samueltexeira2734 Yeah, but we had a ton of darkskinned female artists pre-beyonće's reign as the industry girl. Right after her solo career took off and her fellow darkskinned bandmates careers tanked, all of a sudden the industry only pushed lightskinned and unambiguous women
Tbh when there are receipts on artist who have done foul shit. Even if you either cancel them or seperate the artist from the art. Your perception of the artist and the art have been altered ever so slightly. To a point were just throwing their track on looses it’s status as a force of habit or involuntary thing. So when artist get ousted for doing cooked shit you may defend them in the interim but there will always be a lull of in how frequently you consume their art. And if you have knowledge of the things they have done. There will always be a brief moment before you press play which may be a question or even just void of anything. The main thing is there will be that moment in time which never existed before when you actively pressed play on one of their tracks or consumed their art etc.
I really appreciate the conversation that’s being had here as a multiracial women raised by a light skinned black woman. I’m in the process of breaking down the internalized racism and colorism I was raised with to be a better ally.
I’m a big fan of Doja’s music but this is giving me a lot to think about. I hope she can take a break from being in the public eye to reflect on her behavior
The conversation around 9 minutes was really important and after thinking about it, I agree, I do come to your channel for a black frame of reference. I do significantly value that about your perspective on leftist topics, it’s almost like a reassurance that the way I see the world through leftism isn’t leaving anybody out and yourself and creators like Khadija Mbowe are people I check in with on topics before I decide where I stand on things. I hope that isn’t an explicitly bad thing but yeah it is a true thing, your blackness is a huge part of what adds value to your point of view. Hopefully through channel support and recommendations and patreon I’m fairly compensating that gift of perspective but if I need to adjust my thinking on that I’d love to hear about it from anyone who has insight. Appreciate the time you put into these.
I like her music but she's weird in a bad way, and she's mean af. I never thought pink was black lol what??? But yes she's big because she's light and mixed.
P!nk consistently sells millions of albums every time she drops an album. She spoken openly about the first album not being the direction or aesthetic she wanted. L.A. Reid has also said on multiple occasions that he already had the image he wanted for her when he first heard her sing and her look and sound was all his decision. They butted heads heavily on the second album and had it not been as successful as it was he would have dropped her.
Old Aunt Viv’s dance battle on Fresh Prince was epic!😍Plus years ago, I heard Yolanda Adams got a crush on Busta Rhymes.
I generally come to you when I really want to time into lefty discourse, not necessarily for "blackness" although that's frequently the subject matter.
And honestly, your intellect and sincerity is a cut above most of the Breadtube nonsense.
10:48 thank you for sharing because you’re going to give the children a video about sell out. I’m patiently waiting. I watch these videos with the twins an they 3. Your sex education video was the first time someone talked to them about sex In constructive way. Now, I feel confident moving forward talking to them about it
I'm in that 30%. You've taught me a shit ton so I hope it's ok that I stick around.
this place is for everyone, it’s good that you’re here. We all take something different from fiq.
I have a hard time watching actors who have had problematic and criminal behavior, but I can't "cancel" a really good song. I'm Gen X, so this has already happened to me a bunch of times. No matter the allegations, or even convictions with evidence, I can't stop bopping to a good song: it's physically impossible, and I can't explain it.
Keep up the great work! You have quickly become one of my favorite creators
I hope she surrounds herself with good people and can grow up a bit, because she really is talented.
6:22 Ah yes, the “I said that, but I don’t want yall to quote me on it later” face.
5:46 lol pink went from pretending to be black to pretending to be gay.
To me, Drake, Doja Cat, & Chris Brown (we can add saweetie) are all the same. To sell a product (in this case music) you have to have a MASS appeal. The 4 of them are obviously mixed raced/biracial and benefit from light skin AND pretty privilege AND ON TOP OF THAT…very very talented. That appeals to many audiences.
Their backgrounds are all different, as in everyone’s is. In my opinion most people shit on Doja cause she’s a female. It’s frustrating to see people hate on her when we praise people like Kanye, Chris, & Kodak who has openly admitted to not liking black females (unless they are Lightskin or racial ambiguous).
Lightskin privilege doesn't work for MEN doing pure rap..Drake and Chris are RnB they target women..in pure rap, being a lightskin Guy is not that great
@@fideletamo4292 I completely agree with that statement. I’m just saying overall as an artist. But I definitely agree with that
Thinking about how Azealia Banks has gotten dragged for filth for attacking racist white gay men and other stuff, meanwhile is open about her sexuality and mental health struggle and doesn’t get any sympathy or slack. If Doja and Azealia switched places, it would be a different story.
Yup
You nailed it! I come to your videos to get a perspective I otherwise wouldn't get.
great video and discussion, it's something i think about from time to time, but...
in what world is tyra banks a dark skinned black woman but not megan thee stallion, come on
Okay it's finally happened FD you finally made me feel old cuz I have never heard of this person. Okay 1 hour later I have read up on this person and yeah some weird stuff. I may not yell it from the rooftops but but I noticed other than Lizzo there is no black women who are dark skin who are big right now in the pop / R&B crossover genre. Because the majority of what we call Pop right now is just R&B. Sometimes you say things that come out your mouth and it's amazing because I go I said the exact same thing Beyonce and Rihanna are the last two black women who have obtained Mega star status. I know this I am married to a light skin woman from Jamaica. But black women influence culture so much and they're often not giving credit for it and I don't care what shade they are.
As a Doja fan I am constantly nodding along as people blast her decisions. I get it. But I still love watching and listening to her
i'm brown, not black but i have to say i love how you talk about the nuance of race. there's so much in it and i appreciate the perspective
Having a couple degrees in musicology and watching these videos makes for a wild time, you do great and interesting work my guy.
First time seeing your content. It had me squinting skeptically a couple of times, but you’ve made some really good points. Points that made me think harder than I planned to. Great discourse.
This was great analysis, I'm obsessed with her musically but incessantly disappointed by her actions. One thing I would say though is you kind of did her dirty re Dr Luke. She definitely knows what he did and would love to be rid of him but she signed an unfavourable contract as a teenager. She has said that he took credit for songs he had no involvement in and that she can't escape her contract. She always takes the comments back or deletes her tweets but I'm sure she wouldn't be associated with him if she had the choice.
You clocked the grift
Funny to be watching this video just 2 days after pics of her and the guy from Stranger Things holding hands together were uploaded online.
With Pink, she always wanted to be rock/pop. LA Reed was trying to push her into RnB.
"You are only as cancelled as your next project." Yes! This is so true.
It's so strange to me to think of what my life might have looked like being raised by my white parent? I'm biracial right, white dad (absentee mostly), black mom. Very proud and comfortable in my blackness. I think of the future generation as the life I wish my mom could have, that I could have had. I wonder if white was my default and norm if I would have been less black first, ya know?
Your white dad was a deadbeat? Lol if you were raised white you would be different depending on how politically aware your white parent would be, j Cole, kaepernick, Alicia keys, Obama moms were white and they didn't become doja..so i blame it on doja herself..
"she makes music with black women that she wouldn't have hung out with in high school" that she COULDN'T have hung out with in hs bc hot girl meg and the other popular black girls wouldn't have hung around her crunchy white bf
And this right here is the gag- in middle/high school, black women who don’t align with traditionally black culture or ideals are othered and ostracized. And when they grow up, y’all wonder why they don’t feel a sisterhood. Should she capitalize off of black culture in her adulthood? No- but stop acting as if “hot girl Meg” wouldn’t have made her feel like shit for not listening to r&b/rap, understanding the lingo, or not liking certain sports or cuisines.
@@shanchip1 lol th-cam.com/video/aMUaUDSYDcE/w-d-xo.html ik what u mean but not the best example 😭
@@shanchip1 this right here is why I wanna see FD tackle mixed race issues just to see what he says. There is a f*cked up problem that happens when you raised by a parent if a different race then you and you catching it from both sides. Aint no excuse to link up with white supremacy but it does twist things.
@@shanchip1 Well said. Too many people alienate biracial individuals in cultures across the world and then wonder why those same people don't represent their specific culture.
@@shanchip1 But this is also why the expectation that biracial people are Black is antebellum logic that should be done away with.