Char's sweet water speech won't make any sense unless you have seen zz gundam. Because he mentions haman karn. Also, the question of what happened to kamille and haman after Zeta gundam is a giant loose thread that goes Unresolved if you don't watch ZZ gundam. Haman is set up as the next big villain by the end of zeta. Since char was "killed" at the end of zeta gundam. What I'm trying to say is even if you don't like ZZ gundam it isn't an optional watch. Char's sweet water speech in CCA will make no sense if you don't watch ZZ.
Kamile was originally going to be Char's left hand man in the movie, which I feel was a large wasted opportunity since that would make perfect sense for him and Fa to defect and would have made a good contrast with Judea and Roux who would have been a year back from their 5 year stint around Jupiter.
@@ZontarDow The idea that Char tried to force a Cyber Newtype lab to heal Kamille but only got ta cheap immitation wearing Kamille's skin out of it is very interesting, and would further drive Char crazy into even more extreme actions like the drops. I don;t think a healed Kamille would defect.
People who skip ZZ are missing out on a good ass series. Silent voice is the first anime opening that I genuinely have not skipped every time I hear it. ZZ has problems absolutely, but there's a charm to it that keeps you going.
Also tbf is not like all the other Gundam shows didn't have their problems either, people really overrate Zeta but in reality the story takes itself too seriously to its own detriment when a lot of the episodes is the same dramas stretched over 3-4 episodes when could be resolved in one. I do love Zeta but really it suffers from "edgy idolization" within its fans, same happens with Thunderbolt and Iron Blooded Orphans, a lot of fans don't think about the heavy subjects they just automatically like because it has heavy subjects. But when something like ZZ has goofy moments is a complete sin and garbage despite the context of the story making perfect sense.
I saw Hamans goal of convincing Judeau to join her/Zeon as more so a "prove of concept" so to speak. Judeau came accross like he was basically the next best thing for mankinds next step into the space age with his ironclad will and he also came accross as exactly the type of person Neo-Zeon was seemingly fighting for. A world not held back by earths gravity (aka earths history) were a kid like him would not be forced to just scrap by by any means necessary due to the greed of others. So winning him over would not only be a huge boost for her armed forces, it would also be a moral victory for Haman, proving her reason for doing what she did was just/right. Them showing her basically in a flirting way with Judeau also makes sense if you take her own history into account, were she was essentially reduced into a playball and a women for fleshly desire. So, when Haman herself came into her incredible position of power she instead made these parts her own weapons. She used people like pawns, and used her bodily charm to get whatever she wanted. And when Judeau showed it didn't work on him it peaked her interest and started her realisation of him being a person of possibly icredible character who should come on top in the new world Zeon tries to establish.
when you think about it, in a time where mobile suit gundam battle operation code fairy exists. I guess I could give ZZ another shot. Every Gundam story doesn't need to be a gritty serious story.
@leftsidehurt You do kind of make reference to your thesis within the beginning or did no one teach you how to write. Brief intro, thesis, supporting arguments. Not even in a doctorate level thesis do you write a 4 page intro, it does not respect your audiences time, and comes off as boring. Anything else?
My favorite character in ZZ is PLE2 mainly because she is the introduction of a new concept to maybe anime in General and one I haven't seen again. She is a "born whole clone" as opposed to an ordinary clone. She wakes up out of stasis naked and vulnerable, like so many other artificial construct or clone characters, and instead of showing that vulnerability, confusion, and self-doubt or anxiety, she has the confident personality of an Ace pilot, likely through a brain training program that fully downloaded decades of combat experience and built up her synapses for pilot and combat skill. Her facial expression is full of confidence and self-worth and the first thing she says to her supposed "master" is "you must have really gotten into some shit if you're waking me up this early." The main theory is that Puru was a clone of an obscure other Zabi princess and 1st of a series of 12. She was born "normally" except without parents and raised as a princess charge of Haman but with no duties of a princess so she was normal. PLE2 was created with a fully intact personality and self-determination as an Ace mobile suit pilot. Meanwhile the other 10 clones were built with "no foundation" as it was put in Unicorn by PLE10, Marida Cruz, and they were essentially born as blank slates with no real conditioning or personalities beyond basic operation of their suits. They were meant to be mind controlled by PLE2 and directed as psychic drone weapons essentially. The "Born Whole" concept is popular in a lot of more fringe science fiction outside the mainstream. Most clone stories are about the lack of self-determination or other things. Often they're used for the "born sexy yesterday" trope involving an attractive woman with the blank mindset and innocence of a child. The Replicants in blade runner kind of ride the line on this one. So it's cool to see Gundam pioneer this concept for Anime. Evangelion is one that also rides the line on this one with Rei. She is "born incomplete" because she doesn't have a personality and has trouble developing one. Puru 2 on the other hand is a shit talking deadeye killer with that thang on her at all times and a sick uniform. I do like how UC handles clones even beyond Tomino. There is a theme of the created seeking their true self-determination and developing doubts about their purpose.
@@fakesmile172 I'm willing to believe that but I never looked into it. The only explanation I've heard is that there was another zabi princess on mars that they're all cloned from and it only could be a weird lovechild of Kycilia (red hair, kinda makes sense) or one of Ghirens but I don't think it was ever canon.
@@IRUKANJI No clue about that rumor. Could be possible though. Also, if one of the episodes of Gundam Evolve is canon, Judeau rescues one of the Ple clones.
I really like your impressions and your interpretation of a lot of things of ZZ. Elle going to fight and Beecha being the one to comfort her being a role reversal of classic war dramas, just blew my fucking mind. I never realized that as an avid Tomino Gundam Fan. I'd like to comment on Haman a bit more and your interpretation of her thought of being in the right, right until the end. I think Haman in ZZ, around the halfway-point, started to actually doubt herself and her doings, compared to before and ESPECIALLY in Zeta. We get to know her as an very dominant, strong and capable leader, but after meeting Judau for the first time and then her shooting Leina, was the very first time we see her, in which she felt genuine fear. In Zeta, when Kamille and Haman had the opportunity to finally understand one another, Haman coldly refused. But this moment started to change her and carried on until Judau and her had something similiar. Instead of coldly refusing, she wanted to try to be a bit more open to another person in the only way she knew, recruiting him and fight for the same cause. She tried to do the same with Char in Zeta but was declined. But she went to far with Neo Zeon. She chose her way of what Neo Zeon should do and was too stubborn, too proud to simply change her ideals, just cause she, as one individual, started to crack. When Mashymere died, we see her genuinely shocked at how strong he was, and in the next moment she tries to hide her surprised being from herself in thinking, he was just another asset. This all culminates in the final battle in which she fights as someone on the brink of being the new, changed Haman and her old self. She wanted to be defeated by Judau cause she wanted to repent for her crimes and everything she did, cause she's too proud to admit mistakes. This is what she means by echoing the believe "People are still bound by gravity", cause she herself still is. Judau was the trigger for her self doubt, which is why her final words are "I'm happy I've returned... and have met such a strong, goodwilled child."
@@TheBigHaloFreak don’t apologise! I love seeing long comments like this sharing perspective. Just cause I made the video on the show doesn’t mean I’m right 😅 Regardless I think we’re pretty aligned anyway, because I do agree Haman would’ve had doubts that stemmed from her encounter with Kamille. I mean idk how newtype shenanigans would feel in real life, but by the way it’s portrayed in Zeta, it’s hard to believe you WOULDNT change as a person after that. Even if just a little. Judau was definitely the final straw that broke the hard exterior of Haman though. And to that end it makes sense why she was obsessed with him, but I’ll still dislike the idea of her being ‘romantically’ interested in him in any way it just, doesn’t make sense. But recruiting him and having an ally as strong willed as Judau behind her cause? That’s a reasonable excuse to pursue him. And like you said, she starts to doubt herself, more than likely in part to Judaus constant refusal. If someone THAT strong willed, that instilled that much fear in you, is adamantly fighting against you and everything you stand for, despite your constant offers to join forces, yeah, it’s gonna make you doubt your beliefs. Regardless though, I still think that Haman believed her methods to be ‘right’ up until the end, but she wasn’t a heartless monster by any means. She had her doubts and I can kinda see what you’re saying about Mashymere’s death too after revisiting it. And the final fight is definitely a symbolic atonement for what she’s done, but you’re also right in saying she’s far too proud to ever admit she might’ve gone about things in the wrong way.
Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily romantically interest either. If you're that closed off to people, you'd want any good person you like to have with you, as any sort of company. I just remembered another thing of her cracking confidence is the fact, she wears a normal suit in the last battle and I don't know the exact words but she said something along the lines of "Can't believe this boy made me wear a normal suit". It's an interesting bit considering she never wore one before and went into battle with full confidence and now she goes in not knowing how it will turn out. Of course, part of it is Judau just being super strong but it's probably also her hesitation. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Also, I think is pretty cool how she and Char are the same but reversed in a way. In Zeta, Char as Quattro is trying to be the further away possible from Zeon without realizing he can't just brush off the past, he can't just change his name and pretend he is another person, him as Char and the OYW will never leave him, be his traumas or just what symbol he is for spacenoids and Zeon, he is trying to hide from himself in the worst way possible and in the end he kinda makes all the errors all over again. Meanwhile Haman made herself a Char 2.0 for Axis, even imitating his mannerism, like you pointed out not using a normal suit in battles, even painting the mobile suits with a flashy color etc. She made that because was what Axis wanted Char to be, a fearsome leader of Zeon, specially because she wanted Char to be that, but after he refused she took the role he left empty, not only as a new Char, but a better one. But after Judau she began to question that idealistic visual of Char she was trying to be, and more and more she was seeing herself exactly the Char she hated, the one who didn't take the role of leader of Zeon and relegated himself to lie about who he is. Also I think the romantic and sexual stuff is completely possible after reading Char's Deleted Affair, in a meta way Haman wished to be a second Lalah, she wanted to be loved by Char, but in the end he had no interest in her what made her frustrated on herself. When she finds Judau was a role reversal, she was the older one that should be idolized for her accomplishments, but in the end is all Char Deleted Affair again, Judau doesn't want her in any way, she wants to dominate him but he will not budge. Not to mention that a big chunk of Judau's journey is searching and trying to rescue younger girls from the hands of darker powers, so I think an underlying theme of grooming is present, and Tomino is very well known for sexual themes and imagery, those being even more represented in works where he didn't have many limitations impose by studios. Said that I don't believe ALL she wants is to fuck Judau, I think is more that if she can control him to that point she will feel reaffirmed as the better Char she is trying to be, I even believe is because of that Char appears in the intro next to Judau, in the past she wanted Char, now she wants Judau, in her mind both will fill the same role.
ZZ is the greatest pleb filter in UC. I have met very few UC fans that actually dislike it. While most of the detractors seem to be the crowd that started UC with the 90s OVAs and don't really branch out besides watching the 0079 movies, Zeta and CCA.
Honestly the 90s OVA crowd are really annoying and hurt discussion about the UC a lot, mostly because they have a very narrow opinion of what Gundam is, despite the fact that some of these opinions, such not liking newtypes, are going against what Gundam actually is.
What exactly is the motivation not to skip ZZ? I will find out Marida Cruz's background? They way they desecrated Zeta Gundam's design? The half-hearted and forced "happy ending" of Kamille? The trivial end of Karn? Her weird relationship with Judau? The fact they know they fucked up and half trough the show change course? The cast was hardly more interesting, quite the opposite. Some of the characters were insufferable. I've watched them all. Don't be simple. I've met very few UC fans that actually like it.
I started with Zeta, and really hate ZZ because of how it followed up the ending to Z Gundam with wacky slapstick. Tonal whiplash felt horrible at the time. Still can't really tolerate it. This is probably because of the timing, considering I was watching them when they were new, and I just felt that comedy gundam really didn't work after the ending to Z. Yes ZZ tries to fix itself after about episode 21, but it does it by recycling plot points from original gundam.
I just finished ZZ last night, honestly loved it, not as much as Zeta but telling someone to skip it I think is so stupid, the writing in the later half is so good. The colony drop is one of the most frightening and sobering set of episodes in Gundam. I love the continuation of Fa and Kamille’s story. The Shangri-La gangs growth is so awesome to watch. I LOVE Haman Karn as a character, she is so amazingly well written. ZZ ROCKS
I just started watching the video but I am immediately enthusiastic. You already have the right frame of mind to interpret this series. War is always told through our protagonist, and when the series starts, we see it through Judau's eyes. Thats why the show starts with a nonchalant attitude and ends up so much different than that. Judau is the best protagonist in my opinion, given my screen name, but it also does the best at tone shift and character development for a main character. And I like Kamille, but his story is different, and I love the interactions over time and Haman as well. This series is my favorite by far
The main thing about ZZ Gundam is it is heavily influenced by a previous Tomino anime called Heavy Metal L-Gaim, a semi-post apocalyptic real Mecha set on a desert world. Pretty much the whole ZZ cast is there and Cello is a goofy take on the main Rival in that. Judau's VA plays the MC's partner and best friend and Puru's VA shows up to complete their trio
@@Viseak It has a companion anime, the first isekai, Aura Battler Dunbine, a magical mecha series and they both form the "Lilith saga" as they both feature a dummy thicc fairy with the same character design and VA. Also Dunbine features Las Vegas, Dallas, a bunch of other locales, and the Main characters is literally the opposite of most isekai protagonists. He was an angry young dude literally Too Cool to Live and was abducted for doing "totally rad motorcycle stunts" and they thought he'd be a good magical mech pilot. He gets summoned while jumping a honda gold wing, a cruiser bike, over a car on a public street.
ANYWAY TO FURTHER CONTINUE. Dunbine and L-gaim were the two anime Tomino did after Gundam and before Zeta. Once you see Gaim you realize Tomino has a pattern of getting depressed after a "Tomino Ending" and making something more light hearted. Dunbine and L-Gaim were 83 and 84. It also makes sense when you remember Victory was followed by Turn-A.
i barely paid attention at a ton of important moments of double zeta and i always loved judau as a character from the start of the show. with kamille i did think he ended up as a very good character but it really took me a while to actually care about him compared to amuro, meanwhile judau immediately seemed so full of energy and fun that i fell in love with his character right away.
The biggest issue is how nobody seemed to properly grieve for either Puru, I do have a headcanon of Puru1's ghost showing up to Judau basically immediately and also telling him his sister's still alive since she sure isn't in the afterlife. Because it's really the only way it makes sense.
I have no idea who you are, I have no idea how this got recommended to me, but seeing ZZ praise makes me really, REALLY happy! Time to binge all of your content XD
I'm enjoying going through your reviews, and you're actually really quite articulate. Don't doubt yourself in that capacity, even if you script these videos (as anyone would for something so long anyway). You make clear points and your flow is sensible and logical even when you're discussing feelings and emotional responses. It feels like listening to someone casually but passionately discussing the series in person. Keep up the great work and keep your chin up, because your perspective isn't just valuable, it comes through very well. Good on ya, mate, you'll be right!
No worries! It definitely gets too much flack for what it is, and I much preferred it to 0079 as well, Zeta on the other hand I still like a little better haha
Went to watch ZZ while being wary of its reputation and had a great time with it. A few aspects could've been a little bit better but overall, it was an enjoyable experience through and through.
ZZ seems to be at least top 3 for everyone that watched the whole things. No wonder, it has some of the most on depth character development of them all. It, more than any other Gundam, shows how war can affect kids which is what Tomino always wants to emphasise. Although Shinta and Qum should’ve never been taken from that orphanage on Earth
Actually just decided to finally Double Zeta, about 8 episodes, after taking a break from Zeta. Honestly I like the lighter approach, even though I know and have read some comments about the series going back to its more serious roots. Still the more upbeat episodes are actually good, and helps give viewers, especially myself, a breather from the UC series usual foreboding view on things. Plus I get the feeling the show doesn't take itself too seriously but at certain moments in an episode, it can flip that switch and revert to a more serious note. So all in all, I'm glad I gave it a go and look forward to rest of the series.
Been watching Gundam with my family and was debating whether I should have them watch ZZ or just some plot summary video to save time. But nah, you convinced me. ZZ is so worth it, and makes Unicorn hit that much harder. And if anything, watching and laughing at the absurd bits together is gonna be a lot of fun. 😂
I honestly do really enjoy the show, when it hits. It becomes top tier UC newtype shenanigans. One of the things I really like (and somewhat of head-cannon after watching Unicorn) is that the because Neo Zeon is so much smaller of a force, half of their fighting force are brainwashed cyber newtypes. You obviously see this with the Ple clones, Chara, and Mashimyre later on. To me it seems for Mashimyre's obsession for the flower given to him by Haman is a trigger of sorts.
Just finished rewatching zz a couple hours ago. While it's true that it isn't as bad as I remember, It's still so bad lmao. The first half is so rough. I think the story became good when they came down to earth. Spoilers ahead* My pros: Leina's death came as a shock because you wouldn't expect her to die there and that's why it's interesting and emotional too. The colony drop was the climax for me in the Earth arc and is my favourite episode. My Cons: After that, it became semi-garbage again. Puru died and no one cares. Bright leaves the fleet to children. All pilots are kids who somehow still manages to win. Kamille is reduced to an NPC unlike Amuro and Char. Ple two dies and no one cares again despite them rescuing her. Leina is alive again just so they could please some audience I call Bullsh*t on that one. All in all I give it a 6.5/10 or maybe 7 would cut it. Some episodes were still good like those parts about Haman and the earth arc. Edit: I guess, atleast Haman got good screentime on second half.
I have and will always struggle through the first 6 episodes, because the Shangri-La bit just overstays its welcome. But I also find it quite the enjoyable watch once it starts rolling. Some of the best fights and (weirdly enough) quite a lot of UC world building occurs in this series. It is not essential viewing for the Amuro-Char triology (0079 / Zeta / CCA), but you are surely missing out on a lot skipping it all together, and i like how Unicorn has pulled ZZ back into the limelight again both with Pelu 12 & cameo's of so many great Neo Zeon MS designs. And yes, the Shangri-La bit does overstays it welcome. 0079 episode 8 has the White Base already in full conflict with Garma, and Zeta has visited 30 Bunch and the Lila battle already. The Shangri-La takes 2 or 3 episodes to long with the 'will the protagonist be a protagonist?', while imho it already should be exploring Judeau's mindset itself. Not because it needs to be serious from the get go: I liked Mondo's and Beecha's misadventures till they make their mind up and become men of destiny themselves.
I really loved ZZ Gundam, the characters were fun and surprisingly deep mind you showing friends that only watch dub shows is gonna be a pain as the dub was hidden away by Sunrise. Watching though the UC Timeline is gonna slow to a crawl as one of them took four months to watch death note dubbed. I have no idea how long it'll take to get thought ZZ Gundam Subbed.
@@DIEGhostfish True it be silly but it be faster if it was Dubbed, some anime watchers basically refuse to watch subbed only films/shows even thou they can be really good.
once you get past the first 1/3rd or so ZZ really picks up. Once the troubles start with Neo Zeon/Axis I really got into ZZ. Plus I love the Bawoo and Hamma Hamma suits. I'd love to find the re/100 MG kits but yeah, not paying scalper pricing on ebay.
I loved ZZ. The first half was a nice break from how dark, Zeta was. The story is pretty much skip-able to chars counterattack but a couple things from ZZ do come up later in later UC stories like Unicorn. Overall I too bought into the bad rep of ZZ until I watched it. I loved a majority of the characters especially the supporting female cast members. I guess I ultimately stayed for them more so then the gundams and plot lol
You make some compelling arguments... However, my primary reason for not liking the series is likely that I found too many of the protagonists unlikable. I can understand and respect their motivations, but Judau, Beecha, and Mondo all just came off as far too obnoxious to watch week after week. I probably watched the show until about the 10th episode before I gave up on it... initially. I picked it up later around episode 35 and watched to the end, but was very dissatisfied. Mind you, this was all back during the show's original broadcast with no subtitles... I watched the entire series in the early 2000s, with subtitles, in order to give the series a second chance. It was a better experience... but still not enough to change my overall feelings about the show. There were some characters that I felt better about, but that mostly just shifted my perspective from annoyance to pity. Having a series where characters start off unlikable, but grow, mature, and are eventually redeemed is great... but if they irritate the viewing audience enough so that they stop watching... not the best strategy. There is much that I actually appreciate about Gundam ZZ, but I can't say I really enjoyed it. I am glad that you found so many facets that were enjoyable and redeeming... and I am glad that I don't have to be the target audience for everything 😅
Just Finished the Series during Christmas and can say it's a Good Show! Really nice and goes hand in hand with The OG and Zeta (Heavily a must see cuz technically ZZ is S2 of Zeta)
I think a 4-part (not 3-part) compilation movie series would benefit ZZ if it's ever made. I personally would still watch the TV show like I did 0079 and Zeta. I enjoy long form stories.
I felt like it was weak at first and by its end it was my favourite Gundam series. It's actually odd given I was disagreeing with the cast since I agreed with the Federation's succeeding Side 3 for peace but could also understand why the AUGE went rogue. Roux also shouldn't have had as happy an ending she did given Glemmy's downfall was due to her.
I'll admit I almost dropped ZZ in the first 10 or 12 episodes due to the huge tone shift, but after that it's one of my favorite. The 2nd OP is also amazing.
I'm not wrong about ZZ because I love it. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP HOW OBVIOUSLY INTENTIONAL THE WHUPLASH IS. The show is meant to catch you off guard, it is meant to make Zeta feel so small to rub in the tragedy and it drives me nuts how people dont get why thats important. These kids are 14 and dont care about the war. Why should they give a shit. AND THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP HOW FA IS EXHAUSTED. SHES A GPOD PILOT JUST NOT GIVEN ENOUGB TRAINING BY BRIGHT. Im also glad you brought up beecha being the reason for elle to come home
I had stint where I watched every Gundam property* from OG to IronBlood Orphans. ZZ may not be my favorite series (though it's higher on my list than some) but Silent Voice is will always be my favorite opening. *[Minus SD, have to circle back around and watch those]
If you read bandi's notes to sunrise, they asked for that lighter tone for kids so they could sell toys. I believe Tomino had a darker outline at first. If anything, it shows how Tomino can make lemonade by using this early tone to inform the later tone of the show.
Well, that makes a lot of sense And yeah, it really goes to show what Tomino can pump out when push comes to shove. And when he’s in more of the right headspace
16:56 Gotton was such a short sighted guy for that. He didn't know she'd lied to him, so he was burning a useful asset for nothing. Different from his otherwise competent role.
I enjoyed this video, I'm a fan of ZZ. I think one of the things that happens is the initial whiplash, and sometimes it's enough to be a turn off. Yu-Gi-Oh GX started so light hearted that you'd wonder if it was related to Duel Monsters. 5D's was much more serious and beloved but then there was Zexal what started even more light hearted that again was a turn off for some. It's ok to like what you like and I'm glad you watched it and asked other people to do more than parrot other's talking points.
I never understood the majority POV on ZZ. I personally thought it was one of the best Gundam series, currently rewatching it because I love it that much. I do think something should have happened to Beecha and Mondo, i wouldnt go as far to say death, but something that would have shaken them to the core to show them that they were playing with the wrong side of history; cant believe they didnt even get the Bright slap.
ZZ is probably one of my favorite shows of the mainline. You just have to wait through a few episodes for a bit and then you reach the good stuff and watch amazing growth and it becomes truly amazing. I do think it did need its start to break the thick wave of sadness Z left us off with. It has some of my favorite characters of Ple, Haman, heck most of the cast as they grow and develop. I had the same issues with the 3 piece system in ZZ as i did in MSG (and victory but I'm taking a while to watch it). It's cool if you see the purpose of quick exchange of broken or damaged parts to sortie quicker but launching it in pieces in combat seems a recipe of disaster. In other series such as Moon and Sentinel they try to remedy this issue by having Theta Plus have a better system to control the parts remotely and S Gundam having a computer control everything so even extra pilots was unnecessary.
Id like to point out thoo, as much as haman looks and feels way older than she is by personality and other stuff, people forget haman in zz is just 21, i dont think haman was trying to just manipulate Judau, why? Haman is always alone she only has subordinates, nobody she would consider her equal and she in her lonely position, by chance she find another newtype someone that unlikely kamille dosnt come at her with an adult cinicism, but an actual positive figure with potential, why I say she is emotionally involved? Simple haman to the end tried to convince him to join her and even doing stuff the usual cold haman woudnt do, she emotionally wanted someone to actually understand her, considering the only person that she had a good relationship with went away and left her alone, it’s easy to forget haman was the daughter of the leader of axis when it was just a colony of zeon and considering she had to step up into leadership at the death of her father and contend with a ton of zeon’s at the time already crumbling and backstabbing political side, likely around the age of 16/17 u can see why haman is so jaded, and do to both being newtypes when she met judau she found someone that was the same as her, what do I mean? Judau’s parents are absent he is preaty much by his corrent age which is not even over 18 iiirc he is around 15/16 and he is already preaty much forced to work for money to keep his sister and him from starving and to try to live a better life, unlike haman tho judau never completely bent to the world because he had actual friends unlike haman that was always alone and the only figure that gave her security of someone being equal to her and a friend(cause by the way they never specify what kind of relationship haman and char had many think romantic but it’s never outright stated) u can see haman was vulnerable to judau cause judau reminded her of herself when she was younger, sure haman wanted judau for also political and power means but in her final moments she did all stuff she woudnt do, neo zeon was preaty much over why would she still try to convince judau to side with her? Simple haman told herself she wanted judau for the political side of stuff but in reality haman wanted just someone that would understand her and be by her side as an equal, and what simbolizes this the best is her final words instead of going out screaming in anger or sorrow, her final words are: i am glad i came back. To me it seems that she indeed had feelings for judau but I’d like to hear what u think tbh.
I like ZZ. I'll admit it has flaws, but the final product is something worth watching. I'd call it my top Gundam show, but Re:Rise took over. lol Also, I'm interested in your take on Victory. How bad can any Gundam be versus the show that the creator itself wrote to get the franchise cancelled.
You can NOT watch and truly understand Char’s Counterattack without watching ZZ. It does start slow and is very goofy at the start and at its core. Centering the story around Judau and his friends like you said was very deliberate. But not for the reasons you may think. I have a theory that Judau and his friends are the direct personification of what Char talks about in Zeta Gundam. “A world where Newtypes live and work together harnessing their newtype gifts.” If you watch the show from start to finish and realize that Kamille literally awakens Judau’s newtype potential at the start of the show and he goes on to grow his power as each episode passes. To the point that by the end he’s able to project his “pressure” throughout the universe. His power is so great that Haman is left shaking in terror after witnessing it. You’re cheating yourself if you don’t watch this series after Zeta and before Char’s Counterattack.
@@Viseak it’s so much fun. I also like how at the start as I mentioned when Judau sees Kamille for the first time at the beginning and Kamille immediately senses his dormant power and “unlocks” it. It’s wild that to end Zeta Scirocco crippled Kamille’s mind.. only for him to low key be amped in ZZ and gain even more depth to his Newtype power.
Yes you can. I only need to tell you 2 things and you are good to go continuing with Char's Counter Attack Haman dies The surviving Ple clone continues her story in Unicorn Gundam That's it. None of the major and important UC characters are directly affected by ZZ. It is safe to skip to such a degree, that Zeta Gundam New Translation retconed Kamille's fate so you can skip ZZ. I still recommend the oirginal Zeta Gundam, skip ZZ if it becomes chore (and with that dumb comedy and stupidity most of the time...) at the very lest skip for the sake and decency of Bright Noa who's character was greatly insulted in this trash.
As someone who think's there's a lot to like about ZZ, my big take is that it's the first entry to the franchise that's really only notable because it's part of Gundam. If the titular robot was "The Great Space Defender Bawoo" it's legacy would be that of a pretty average, but mostly forgotten footnote in the history of anime (with some pretty awesome 80's mecha designs). My recollection is that Zeta Gundam's success got ZZ greenlit somewhere around halfway through it's run, and it shows. It's pretty obvious that the production staff were working on a timeline of weeks, rather than Zeta Gundam's months/years. This is a shame since all of the issues the show has with tone, characterization, and the plot feeling directionless things that could of been fixed or turned into strengths if the show had more time in the planning stage.
If sunrise decided to make a ZZ Gundam Trilogy just like Z Gundam had, they probably need to tone down the goofiness of ZZ Gundam,it could possibly make the series gain positive review unlike the OG ZZ Gundam
I just finished ZZ Gundam purely because of this video and I thought it was wayyy more entertaining than Zeta. I never thought the silly comedy in ZZ was too much and having it made the characters feel a lot more interesting and fleshed out. I almost quit Zeta because I found it so boring and the characters so flat, but I felt invested in ZZ from the start. Honestly, aside from 08th MS Team, Double Zeta is probably my favorite Universal Century installment, and that includes Char's Counter Attack
The problem with the ZZs transformation isn't that it's impractical, it's that they didn't animate one of it's forms at all except a few times in the hangar. If Judau had launched in the G Fortress mode instead of in a sole core fighter with 2 others in the Core Top/Bottom, it would have freed up 2 pilots and been vastly more useful in fights. Hell, even if he'd launched in one half, with Iino in the other, that's still better than needing 3 seperate pilots and the main pilot being in JUST a core fighter. The G Fortress is a great mobile armor mode, they just never used it in the show. Iirc when Beecha and Mondo go to take the ZZ at one point it's hanging in the Argama IN G Fortress mode, and they transform into mobile suit mode to escape. Having the ZZ be able to seperate into an escape craft like the OG Gundam is smart, you see why plenty of times in Thunderbolt. The problem is they always launch separately, then combine, unlike the G Armor/Gundam from 0079 which launched combined and then seperates when needed
I can never say ZZ was bad, besides fleshing the Queen of Tsuendere that is Haman, it introduced Roux Louka...and MAN I loves me some Roux Louka, easily one of the best side characters and copilots in a Gundam series...easily blows the stench of failure that was Fa, seriously they went with FA as their first choice on the Argama and waited until thing hit the fan to finally invite Roux?! Lol...
17:19 Honestly she probably could ahve crammed the bomb into the gap between the armor and the joint and jumped. Yeah it MIGHT have fallen but if a bomb that small could blow the outer surface of the lunar cities open the cities would have been destroyed long ago.
Okay, so I just got finished watching all of Zeta, and the three New Translation movies... and went back to give ZZ yet another try... So, I just watched the first two episodes, and I have to say that the "tonal whiplash" is a serious problem still. There is much that I would love to debate, but this really isn't a great venue for that conversation...
Yknow, we agree about the weirdest things. I got to the channel bc I vehemently disagreed with your FE:Awakening take but then later agreed with your AoT take. Granted, I've seen only this and Gundam00, so maybe I just don't have much to go on, but still. Now, I am the kid that preferred Robotech to Gundam, so maybe agreeing about this series isn't great 😂 Edit: I do believe there was 1 other Gundam series I saw, but now I can't think of the name.
Hahaha maybe I was just too harsh on Awakening lmao Robotech / Macross was great in its own right so I can’t blame you there. Might need to do a video on it at some point too 🤔
@@Viseak From a *totally* not biased point of view, you were definitely too harsh about Awakening. Totally not biased bc it was my first FE game though That would be AWESOME!!!!
@@hinata1ize haha I may have been a teeny bit biased too Wasn’t really Awakenings fault it wasn’t 3H, and it wasn’t really fair to judge it based on my enjoyment of 3H Guess that just means FE as a whole wasn’t reeeaaally for me, just the 3H formula lol (although I did enjoy echoes SOV, still not as much as 3H tho)
Only on episode 12... so i wont watch your whole video right now. But Im enjoying ZZ a lot... sadly the Crunchyroll comments don't agree with me. But glad to see that some others do 😊
Look I Know that double Zeta has a good amount of stuff in it and I agree, but I just can't get Over the fact that the first half is just a lot of nonsense that I can't Really get into it until we get to the second half where it's like OK OK I can roll with this now. And like I said The show does have some good things in it like Double zeta itself, Roux Luka, Judau is a fun protagonist and Haman is amazing...... Her stupid death notwithstanding though my friend and I will still make fun of that death lol. However for all those good things there is a couple of bad like the entirety of the first half, the tone and even Beecha exists. Plus I was gonna add in the fact that a certain mama's boy who was after Roux existed but at the very least he died by her hands so that was a victory. All I'm gonna say is double Zeta is a mixed bag of a series and it could be worse it could have been like WFM and i'd rather it not be like WFM or most of the modern gundam series lol. Great video as always!
I wouldn’t go so far as to call it the whole first half nonsense (although sure, there are some nonsensical moments), but I think a break from the rigid and gritty nature of Gundam was a breath of fresh air that entirely made sense for a group of essentially orphaned kids who hadn’t yet truly experienced war. Sure they caught strays from it, they’re clearly doing it a little rough on Shangri-La, but they hadn’t yet seen anything first hand to really make them take anything seriously, and I feel like the shows tone reflects that. It’s a little jarring, sure. But the new perspective we get works as a perfect way to deconstruct what Gundam had built up thus far, and build it back up again towards the end of the show. With all that being said though, I can’t deny the start is STILL a hard pill to swallow for some, and that’s fine, but I think in retrospect after seeing the series as a whole, it’s kinda justified and makes sense. I’m curious what your thoughts are on WFM though 🤔 I finally caught up with it last week after putting off watching it all this time and… I’ve actually really enjoyed it
@@Viseak To make a very long story short as I kind of got attacked by some people who say that this was the best written gundam show in the series...... I personally have to disagree only because the prologue got me so hypee up to a lot of interesting and cool ideas only for the rest of the first season to feel like a total drag. Like don't get me wrong one character I really like has the best character development out of every single character in the show, I do like Suletta and some of the mobile suits are cool but however my main issue stems from the fact that that's just 1 character as everybody else just feels like they're just there to fulfill a purpose and nothing more than that. Plus I feel like that we spent way too much time in the school setting instead of actively setting up a story so by the time we get to the final 2 episodes of season one it's like yes we finally picked up the Pace but it came at the cost of waiting so long for something to actually happen. Which is why I never bothered watching season 2 and only came across some scenes in passing like how the one character I like is still the only 1 to have a really good character arc while everyone else including our main heroine just fell out for me. Like yes season 2 did basically give some characters stuff to do but I wish it happened during season one or was properly built up rather than just toss to the wayside so we can focus on things that don't really matter or like IBO season 2 make everyone be stupid just to make the main villain be smarter. That's just my opinion but I did at least give season one a chance, I do like Suletta despite my personal issues with her as a Protagonist and her growth and that one dark skinned girl....wooof is she fine lol.
@@MrDarksol It’s pretty fucked you got attacked for an opinion on a show lmao I guess that’s just how the internet goes some times I suppose 😅 It all comes down to personal biases at the end of the day though, like anyone saying WFM is the best Gundam ever written probably just hasn’t seen enough Gundam. Or it was just their first Gundam. Same argument as I bloody have for people who obsess over the Azure Moon route in FE3H 😭 Needless to say though, I still think WFM is pretty good, and hopefully it sticks the landing even though it’s really ramped up far too quickly at the end here. But I don’t think it’s peak storytelling or anything. I mean as a LOT of people have pointed out, it’s clearly heavily inspired by/borderline a retelling of The Tempest. Im not really a Shakespeare guy but it’s hard to deny the impact of the guys work and just as hard to fuck up a story based off one so highly acclaimed. With that being said, maybe I had a different opinion cause I didn’t start with the prologue… I didn’t realise the prologue even existed until the end of season 1. So my watch order was S1 -> Prologue -> Season 2 Which was actually really cool. Everything felt like such a mystery and things were being ever so slowly unraveled then BOOM I watch the prologue and so many puzzle pieces click together but I’m also still kinda confused then BOOM season 2’s Aerial reveal and then it just keeps hitting and hitting and hitting until where we’re at now. Which is just going a little too fast, but we’ll have to wait and see what happens next. I get what you’re saying about the characters though but I feel like it’s more than just a Suletta story. At bare minimum I feel like it’s a Suletta & Miorine story. With S1 being more Miorine focused and setting up Suletta to get the help she needed and take more focus in S2. But again I get what you mean about it being just a Suletta story cause it DOES kind of feel like a lot of characters are in there purely to fuel her growth. Like Guel and Elan and the entirety of the earth house. They literally helped her tick items off her little bucket list that’s how in your face it was they were there to help her grow. But even so, I did enjoy what these characters brought to the table themselves, especially Guel and his whole mini earth arc. I get what you mean about S1 though, but I can’t say I hated it. The best way I can describe it, is that it gave me Zoids Fuzors vibes (but in a good way). It’s like WFM is what Fuzors could have/should have been. Obviously instead of fighting for money and such you’re fighting in school but it’s still essentially for sport. Then of course there’s clearly something dark brewing in the background. A little mystery if you will. Then there’s the quick introduction of the new overpowered mech that flips everything on its head, in Fuzors case, Fuzors, and in WFM’s case, Gundam’s. But then Gundam takes a far better approach flipping the entire show on its head to create an all out damn war with a million spoilers I shouldn’t mention. Whereas Fuzors just kept doing the same boring thing and went nowhere with its plot threads, plus of course, it looked terrible. Honestly though I’d rate giving S2 of WFM a go if you haven’t already. The first ep is a little slow but that’s it, it immediately picks up from there and doesn’t let you go.
@@Viseak I might give season 2 a watch but considering my thoughts about season one combined with most of what I've heard from someone who has been watching season 2 it's probably just gonna be a wait until It is over and maybe binge watch It and I say hardcore maybe. But oh don't get me started on the azure moon route from 3 houses as I still have friends who proclaim it as the best route in that whole game and another friend who proclaims that Claude's route was the best in the whole game....... You notice the complete lack of anyone saying anything nice to a certain red emperor lol.
I gave Double Zeta a chance last month and glad I did. After the Argama gets back into space it improves and the second half is some of the best Gundam has to offer. Also Judau is the best pilot out of the original 3, and my favorite so far. It’s the weakest out of the original 3 series, but imho has too much undeserved hate. It’s a solid B- show in my book
I just finished it, the ending is solid and overall I liked the second half. The early slapstick comedy was horrid, and the colony drop served no military or political goal and came out of nowhere. If you ignore the drop, Haman Karn is barely evil in this show and I rooted for her for a few episodes. The AEUG lost their raison d'etre when the Titans were wiped out, and I do appreciate the characters questioning if they are on the right side or not.
Haven't seen the complete video but, I do totally agree with you... the Gundam fandom treats ZZ too harshly. It ain't just good its great, especially it's later half where things get more darker and grim than Zeta... Also Roux Luca, peak Gundam waifu.
Its not terrible but "very good" is a little stretch. Like how it ignores the established lore, like how Hanma just waltz into Dakar with 3 ships and conquers the capital of the Earth Federation when the entire Zeon forces couldn't do that in the One Year War. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It is overhated but not underrated. Its no suprise Judau never shows up again.
No... No, no.... Yes... there WAS manipulation there, no doubt about there... but there was the Newtype connection there. It was NOT just about using him. Don't delude yourselves... She had complicated feelings about Judau... that were more than platonic. Just accept it. I'm not defending her, I'm just saying. They were there.....
sorry im wrong for not liking the clothes on the characters that much. like you go from military uniform coolness to 80s rocker vibes like that aint me. sorry im wrong for telling people not to skip it cuz the ending is fantastic. sorry im wrong for thinking it's just as important part in the timeline
ZZ is the "divisive" one but to be honest almost much every Gundam show past the original is "divisive" in some way. Tell me if youve heard one of these before ZZ is too goofy Zeta is too boring/dark F91 is a mess 08th MS Team and CCA are carried by animation Wing doesn't hold up past the nostalgia G is bad cause its different Turn A and Victory are too weird and boring SEED and SEED Destiny ... I mean do i need even to say anything? IBO and 00 fall off after season 2 or people say IBO had a bad ending Unicorn is too dumb Witch is bad cause *politics* etc etc..... honestly the only Gundam show that *Isn't* divisive is X and thats probably only cause barely anyone has actually seen
@@juresaiyan Ah interesting that ZZ is better liked because I have seen some people complain about it. And you are very much correct when you say that ZZ is canon, whereas GT is not.
Question: Can I skip Gundam ZZ and go ahead to watch Char's Counterattack movie? Char and Amuro Ray is not in the series which I don't understand why they are in the OP. I heard so many time how bad it was and just not your standard Gundam......Recently coming in as a MSG UC timeline fan I preferred my MSG series to be more serious, grounded dark military action thriller with a bit of twists and turns backstabbing drama. Do you actually like Gundam ZZ or you just trying to make everybody watch it😂 jk lol.
Hahaha I mean technically, you could skip it, and I get wanting to get to that highly acclaimed film sooner cause it is a treat to watch, but even so, I still recommend watching ZZ all the way through. I genuinely really enjoyed my time by the end, I rate it far higher than the likes of 0079, but not as good as something like Zeta. Haman Karn is a really interesting antagonist to see through to the end, and it does give context to the events of CCA PLUS gives you heaps of references when you get to Unicorn
@@Viseak Thank you so much for taking the time to respond back. Do you get enough of Haman Karn and Darwin's little girl in Zeta or not? I watched the 0079 Movie Trilogy and not the series coming off of Origns which easier. At the end of the prequel it slides right into the movies and the voice actors pretty much almost sound the same. I know they changed the dialogue from the original to the movies to make the dubbed so much better. I'm still not going to watch ZZ, but instead go on the Wiki to read the summary or watch some TH-camr channel😂 haha!
Before Sunrise gave Tomino the greenlight for CCA- Char and Amuro were supposed to appear in ZZ (but I'm not sure if they were going to be the main focus had they been included).
My problem was timing. I watched Zeta as my first series, in an anime club, monthly while it was coming out. Afterwards, ZZ starts, and I'm excited to see a continuation, only to get a lukewarm comedy series that turns into sort of a remake of the One Year War. Wound up hating the characters that were introduced during the comedic bits, really disliking what they did with Haman and Gremy, and only sort of enjoying the last four episodes. CCA was great, if rushed, but ZZ drives me nuts to this day.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Char's sweet water speech won't make any sense unless you have seen zz gundam. Because he mentions haman karn. Also, the question of what happened to kamille and haman after Zeta gundam is a giant loose thread that goes Unresolved if you don't watch ZZ gundam. Haman is set up as the next big villain by the end of zeta. Since char was "killed" at the end of zeta gundam. What I'm trying to say is even if you don't like ZZ gundam it isn't an optional watch. Char's sweet water speech in CCA will make no sense if you don't watch ZZ.
Kamile was originally going to be Char's left hand man in the movie, which I feel was a large wasted opportunity since that would make perfect sense for him and Fa to defect and would have made a good contrast with Judea and Roux who would have been a year back from their 5 year stint around Jupiter.
@@ZontarDow The idea that Char tried to force a Cyber Newtype lab to heal Kamille but only got ta cheap immitation wearing Kamille's skin out of it is very interesting, and would further drive Char crazy into even more extreme actions like the drops. I don;t think a healed Kamille would defect.
People who skip ZZ are missing out on a good ass series. Silent voice is the first anime opening that I genuinely have not skipped every time I hear it. ZZ has problems absolutely, but there's a charm to it that keeps you going.
Also tbf is not like all the other Gundam shows didn't have their problems either, people really overrate Zeta but in reality the story takes itself too seriously to its own detriment when a lot of the episodes is the same dramas stretched over 3-4 episodes when could be resolved in one. I do love Zeta but really it suffers from "edgy idolization" within its fans, same happens with Thunderbolt and Iron Blooded Orphans, a lot of fans don't think about the heavy subjects they just automatically like because it has heavy subjects. But when something like ZZ has goofy moments is a complete sin and garbage despite the context of the story making perfect sense.
Just gotta say the thumbnail having Haman subtly in the background looks GREAT
Haha thanks man, I quite liked this thumbnail too
From the moment the crew landed on Earth to the ending the show was peak. The Africa arc was amazing imo. Also Roux is best girl.
I saw Hamans goal of convincing Judeau to join her/Zeon as more so a "prove of concept" so to speak.
Judeau came accross like he was basically the next best thing for mankinds next step into the space age with his ironclad will and he also came accross as exactly the type of person Neo-Zeon was seemingly fighting for. A world not held back by earths gravity (aka earths history) were a kid like him would not be forced to just scrap by by any means necessary due to the greed of others. So winning him over would not only be a huge boost for her armed forces, it would also be a moral victory for Haman, proving her reason for doing what she did was just/right.
Them showing her basically in a flirting way with Judeau also makes sense if you take her own history into account, were she was essentially reduced into a playball and a women for fleshly desire. So, when Haman herself came into her incredible position of power she instead made these parts her own weapons. She used people like pawns, and used her bodily charm to get whatever she wanted. And when Judeau showed it didn't work on him it peaked her interest and started her realisation of him being a person of possibly icredible character who should come on top in the new world Zeon tries to establish.
when you think about it, in a time where mobile suit gundam battle operation code fairy exists. I guess I could give ZZ another shot. Every Gundam story doesn't need to be a gritty serious story.
That’s what I wanna hear!
And ZZ does get into your typical Gundam grittiness towards the latter half of the series, so you get a bit of everything
Oh don’t worry it gets real gritty later on in the story, has some really dark moments too
Get to your point before 10 min in. You are boring me.
@@TheSamm1979why did you click a nearly 40min video expecting in depth reasoning in the first 10mins ?
@leftsidehurt You do kind of make reference to your thesis within the beginning or did no one teach you how to write. Brief intro, thesis, supporting arguments. Not even in a doctorate level thesis do you write a 4 page intro, it does not respect your audiences time, and comes off as boring. Anything else?
My favorite character in ZZ is PLE2 mainly because she is the introduction of a new concept to maybe anime in General and one I haven't seen again. She is a "born whole clone" as opposed to an ordinary clone. She wakes up out of stasis naked and vulnerable, like so many other artificial construct or clone characters, and instead of showing that vulnerability, confusion, and self-doubt or anxiety, she has the confident personality of an Ace pilot, likely through a brain training program that fully downloaded decades of combat experience and built up her synapses for pilot and combat skill. Her facial expression is full of confidence and self-worth and the first thing she says to her supposed "master" is "you must have really gotten into some shit if you're waking me up this early."
The main theory is that Puru was a clone of an obscure other Zabi princess and 1st of a series of 12. She was born "normally" except without parents and raised as a princess charge of Haman but with no duties of a princess so she was normal. PLE2 was created with a fully intact personality and self-determination as an Ace mobile suit pilot. Meanwhile the other 10 clones were built with "no foundation" as it was put in Unicorn by PLE10, Marida Cruz, and they were essentially born as blank slates with no real conditioning or personalities beyond basic operation of their suits. They were meant to be mind controlled by PLE2 and directed as psychic drone weapons essentially.
The "Born Whole" concept is popular in a lot of more fringe science fiction outside the mainstream. Most clone stories are about the lack of self-determination or other things. Often they're used for the "born sexy yesterday" trope involving an attractive woman with the blank mindset and innocence of a child. The Replicants in blade runner kind of ride the line on this one. So it's cool to see Gundam pioneer this concept for Anime.
Evangelion is one that also rides the line on this one with Rei. She is "born incomplete" because she doesn't have a personality and has trouble developing one. Puru 2 on the other hand is a shit talking deadeye killer with that thang on her at all times and a sick uniform. I do like how UC handles clones even beyond Tomino. There is a theme of the created seeking their true self-determination and developing doubts about their purpose.
You should seriously write for a living lol
According to some obscure material, the genetic father of all the Ple and Glemy is Gihren Zabi. Glemy has a different genetic mother though.
@@fakesmile172 I'm willing to believe that but I never looked into it. The only explanation I've heard is that there was another zabi princess on mars that they're all cloned from and it only could be a weird lovechild of Kycilia (red hair, kinda makes sense) or one of Ghirens but I don't think it was ever canon.
@@IRUKANJI
No clue about that rumor. Could be possible though. Also, if one of the episodes of Gundam Evolve is canon, Judeau rescues one of the Ple clones.
Best comment in the history of ever.
I really like your impressions and your interpretation of a lot of things of ZZ. Elle going to fight and Beecha being the one to comfort her being a role reversal of classic war dramas, just blew my fucking mind. I never realized that as an avid Tomino Gundam Fan.
I'd like to comment on Haman a bit more and your interpretation of her thought of being in the right, right until the end.
I think Haman in ZZ, around the halfway-point, started to actually doubt herself and her doings, compared to before and ESPECIALLY in Zeta. We get to know her as an very dominant, strong and capable leader, but after meeting Judau for the first time and then her shooting Leina, was the very first time we see her, in which she felt genuine fear.
In Zeta, when Kamille and Haman had the opportunity to finally understand one another, Haman coldly refused. But this moment started to change her and carried on until Judau and her had something similiar. Instead of coldly refusing, she wanted to try to be a bit more open to another person in the only way she knew, recruiting him and fight for the same cause. She tried to do the same with Char in Zeta but was declined.
But she went to far with Neo Zeon. She chose her way of what Neo Zeon should do and was too stubborn, too proud to simply change her ideals, just cause she, as one individual, started to crack. When Mashymere died, we see her genuinely shocked at how strong he was, and in the next moment she tries to hide her surprised being from herself in thinking, he was just another asset.
This all culminates in the final battle in which she fights as someone on the brink of being the new, changed Haman and her old self. She wanted to be defeated by Judau cause she wanted to repent for her crimes and everything she did, cause she's too proud to admit mistakes. This is what she means by echoing the believe "People are still bound by gravity", cause she herself still is.
Judau was the trigger for her self doubt, which is why her final words are "I'm happy I've returned... and have met such a strong, goodwilled child."
IT GOT SO LONG, I'M SO SORRY!!!!
@@TheBigHaloFreak don’t apologise!
I love seeing long comments like this sharing perspective. Just cause I made the video on the show doesn’t mean I’m right 😅
Regardless I think we’re pretty aligned anyway, because I do agree Haman would’ve had doubts that stemmed from her encounter with Kamille. I mean idk how newtype shenanigans would feel in real life, but by the way it’s portrayed in Zeta, it’s hard to believe you WOULDNT change as a person after that. Even if just a little.
Judau was definitely the final straw that broke the hard exterior of Haman though. And to that end it makes sense why she was obsessed with him, but I’ll still dislike the idea of her being ‘romantically’ interested in him in any way it just, doesn’t make sense.
But recruiting him and having an ally as strong willed as Judau behind her cause? That’s a reasonable excuse to pursue him.
And like you said, she starts to doubt herself, more than likely in part to Judaus constant refusal. If someone THAT strong willed, that instilled that much fear in you, is adamantly fighting against you and everything you stand for, despite your constant offers to join forces, yeah, it’s gonna make you doubt your beliefs.
Regardless though, I still think that Haman believed her methods to be ‘right’ up until the end, but she wasn’t a heartless monster by any means. She had her doubts and I can kinda see what you’re saying about Mashymere’s death too after revisiting it.
And the final fight is definitely a symbolic atonement for what she’s done, but you’re also right in saying she’s far too proud to ever admit she might’ve gone about things in the wrong way.
Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily romantically interest either. If you're that closed off to people, you'd want any good person you like to have with you, as any sort of company.
I just remembered another thing of her cracking confidence is the fact, she wears a normal suit in the last battle and I don't know the exact words but she said something along the lines of "Can't believe this boy made me wear a normal suit". It's an interesting bit considering she never wore one before and went into battle with full confidence and now she goes in not knowing how it will turn out. Of course, part of it is Judau just being super strong but it's probably also her hesitation.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Also, I think is pretty cool how she and Char are the same but reversed in a way.
In Zeta, Char as Quattro is trying to be the further away possible from Zeon without realizing he can't just brush off the past, he can't just change his name and pretend he is another person, him as Char and the OYW will never leave him, be his traumas or just what symbol he is for spacenoids and Zeon, he is trying to hide from himself in the worst way possible and in the end he kinda makes all the errors all over again.
Meanwhile Haman made herself a Char 2.0 for Axis, even imitating his mannerism, like you pointed out not using a normal suit in battles, even painting the mobile suits with a flashy color etc. She made that because was what Axis wanted Char to be, a fearsome leader of Zeon, specially because she wanted Char to be that, but after he refused she took the role he left empty, not only as a new Char, but a better one. But after Judau she began to question that idealistic visual of Char she was trying to be, and more and more she was seeing herself exactly the Char she hated, the one who didn't take the role of leader of Zeon and relegated himself to lie about who he is.
Also I think the romantic and sexual stuff is completely possible after reading Char's Deleted Affair, in a meta way Haman wished to be a second Lalah, she wanted to be loved by Char, but in the end he had no interest in her what made her frustrated on herself. When she finds Judau was a role reversal, she was the older one that should be idolized for her accomplishments, but in the end is all Char Deleted Affair again, Judau doesn't want her in any way, she wants to dominate him but he will not budge.
Not to mention that a big chunk of Judau's journey is searching and trying to rescue younger girls from the hands of darker powers, so I think an underlying theme of grooming is present, and Tomino is very well known for sexual themes and imagery, those being even more represented in works where he didn't have many limitations impose by studios.
Said that I don't believe ALL she wants is to fuck Judau, I think is more that if she can control him to that point she will feel reaffirmed as the better Char she is trying to be, I even believe is because of that Char appears in the intro next to Judau, in the past she wanted Char, now she wants Judau, in her mind both will fill the same role.
ZZ is the greatest pleb filter in UC. I have met very few UC fans that actually dislike it.
While most of the detractors seem to be the crowd that started UC with the 90s OVAs and don't really branch out besides watching the 0079 movies, Zeta and CCA.
Honestly the 90s OVA crowd are really annoying and hurt discussion about the UC a lot, mostly because they have a very narrow opinion of what Gundam is, despite the fact that some of these opinions, such not liking newtypes, are going against what Gundam actually is.
What exactly is the motivation not to skip ZZ?
I will find out Marida Cruz's background?
They way they desecrated Zeta Gundam's design?
The half-hearted and forced "happy ending" of Kamille?
The trivial end of Karn? Her weird relationship with Judau?
The fact they know they fucked up and half trough the show change course? The cast was hardly more interesting, quite the opposite. Some of the characters were insufferable.
I've watched them all.
Don't be simple.
I've met very few UC fans that actually like it.
I started with Zeta, and really hate ZZ because of how it followed up the ending to Z Gundam with wacky slapstick. Tonal whiplash felt horrible at the time. Still can't really tolerate it. This is probably because of the timing, considering I was watching them when they were new, and I just felt that comedy gundam really didn't work after the ending to Z. Yes ZZ tries to fix itself after about episode 21, but it does it by recycling plot points from original gundam.
@@desireless4092 Could be worse, could be "A New Translation"
@@desireless4092 This one gets it.
I just finished ZZ last night, honestly loved it, not as much as Zeta but telling someone to skip it I think is so stupid, the writing in the later half is so good. The colony drop is one of the most frightening and sobering set of episodes in Gundam. I love the continuation of Fa and Kamille’s story. The Shangri-La gangs growth is so awesome to watch. I LOVE Haman Karn as a character, she is so amazingly well written. ZZ ROCKS
I just started watching the video but I am immediately enthusiastic. You already have the right frame of mind to interpret this series. War is always told through our protagonist, and when the series starts, we see it through Judau's eyes. Thats why the show starts with a nonchalant attitude and ends up so much different than that. Judau is the best protagonist in my opinion, given my screen name, but it also does the best at tone shift and character development for a main character. And I like Kamille, but his story is different, and I love the interactions over time and Haman as well. This series is my favorite by far
The main thing about ZZ Gundam is it is heavily influenced by a previous Tomino anime called Heavy Metal L-Gaim, a semi-post apocalyptic real Mecha set on a desert world. Pretty much the whole ZZ cast is there and Cello is a goofy take on the main Rival in that. Judau's VA plays the MC's partner and best friend and Puru's VA shows up to complete their trio
Oh damn, I gotta give that a watch now too
@@Viseak It has a companion anime, the first isekai, Aura Battler Dunbine, a magical mecha series and they both form the "Lilith saga" as they both feature a dummy thicc fairy with the same character design and VA.
Also Dunbine features Las Vegas, Dallas, a bunch of other locales, and the Main characters is literally the opposite of most isekai protagonists. He was an angry young dude literally Too Cool to Live and was abducted for doing "totally rad motorcycle stunts" and they thought he'd be a good magical mech pilot. He gets summoned while jumping a honda gold wing, a cruiser bike, over a car on a public street.
ALSO I need to add that Dunbine is one of the first anime that features Norio Wakamoto as a voice actor.
ANYWAY TO FURTHER CONTINUE. Dunbine and L-gaim were the two anime Tomino did after Gundam and before Zeta. Once you see Gaim you realize Tomino has a pattern of getting depressed after a "Tomino Ending" and making something more light hearted.
Dunbine and L-Gaim were 83 and 84. It also makes sense when you remember Victory was followed by Turn-A.
@@IRUKANJI well, looks like I’ve got a lot more Tomino lore to check out hahaha
Mannnnn now yiu are making me want to pick up zz thanks man. Great that I can pick it up directly after zeta
That’s the goal! Love to hear it
10:50 really thought he was gonna say something like: "that's just a theory, a GUNDAM theory"💀💀💀💀
i barely paid attention at a ton of important moments of double zeta and i always loved judau as a character from the start of the show. with kamille i did think he ended up as a very good character but it really took me a while to actually care about him compared to amuro, meanwhile judau immediately seemed so full of energy and fun that i fell in love with his character right away.
Thought you were going to say it wasn't an anime at the beginning. (If you know, you know.)
I mean it’s not an anime, it’s real life
@@Viseak True. True. Loved the video, man. Keep it up!
ANIME JA NAI!
The biggest issue is how nobody seemed to properly grieve for either Puru, I do have a headcanon of Puru1's ghost showing up to Judau basically immediately and also telling him his sister's still alive since she sure isn't in the afterlife. Because it's really the only way it makes sense.
I have no idea who you are, I have no idea how this got recommended to me, but seeing ZZ praise makes me really, REALLY happy!
Time to binge all of your content XD
Well if you like ZZ, it got recommended to you for all the right reasons
Glad you enjoyed the video 🫶🏼
I'm enjoying going through your reviews, and you're actually really quite articulate. Don't doubt yourself in that capacity, even if you script these videos (as anyone would for something so long anyway). You make clear points and your flow is sensible and logical even when you're discussing feelings and emotional responses. It feels like listening to someone casually but passionately discussing the series in person. Keep up the great work and keep your chin up, because your perspective isn't just valuable, it comes through very well. Good on ya, mate, you'll be right!
Thanks for the kind comment mate, read this earlier today but only just getting back to it now haha, gotta say you made my day 🫶🏼
Fax. Thanks for giving this show the flowers it deserves. I honestly prefer it over 0079 and Zeta
No worries!
It definitely gets too much flack for what it is, and I much preferred it to 0079 as well, Zeta on the other hand I still like a little better haha
Excellent recap and analysis!
Thank you!
Went to watch ZZ while being wary of its reputation and had a great time with it. A few aspects could've been a little bit better but overall, it was an enjoyable experience through and through.
Yeah it’s a shame it gets such a bad rep, it’s honestly a great Gundam entry
@@Viseak Judau is one of my favorite protags in the UC and probably Gundam in general. He's such an interesting character.
ZZ seems to be at least top 3 for everyone that watched the whole things. No wonder, it has some of the most on depth character development of them all. It, more than any other Gundam, shows how war can affect kids which is what Tomino always wants to emphasise. Although Shinta and Qum should’ve never been taken from that orphanage on Earth
Actually just decided to finally Double Zeta, about 8 episodes, after taking a break from Zeta. Honestly I like the lighter approach, even though I know and have read some comments about the series going back to its more serious roots.
Still the more upbeat episodes are actually good, and helps give viewers, especially myself, a breather from the UC series usual foreboding view on things.
Plus I get the feeling the show doesn't take itself too seriously but at certain moments in an episode, it can flip that switch and revert to a more serious note.
So all in all, I'm glad I gave it a go and look forward to rest of the series.
Been watching Gundam with my family and was debating whether I should have them watch ZZ or just some plot summary video to save time. But nah, you convinced me. ZZ is so worth it, and makes Unicorn hit that much harder. And if anything, watching and laughing at the absurd bits together is gonna be a lot of fun. 😂
I honestly do really enjoy the show, when it hits. It becomes top tier UC newtype shenanigans. One of the things I really like (and somewhat of head-cannon after watching Unicorn) is that the because Neo Zeon is so much smaller of a force, half of their fighting force are brainwashed cyber newtypes. You obviously see this with the Ple clones, Chara, and Mashimyre later on. To me it seems for Mashimyre's obsession for the flower given to him by Haman is a trigger of sorts.
ZZ Gundam is my number 1 gundam series. It just so relatable and Judau is the best main hero out of the gundam series in my view.
ZZ is Zeta season 2. If youy don't like ZZ, you don't like Zeta. Period....
Just finished rewatching zz a couple hours ago.
While it's true that it isn't as bad as I remember, It's still so bad lmao.
The first half is so rough. I think the story became good when they came down to earth.
Spoilers ahead*
My pros:
Leina's death came as a shock because you wouldn't expect her to die there and that's why it's interesting and emotional too.
The colony drop was the climax for me in the Earth arc and is my favourite episode.
My Cons:
After that, it became semi-garbage again.
Puru died and no one cares. Bright leaves the fleet to children. All pilots are kids who somehow still manages to win.
Kamille is reduced to an NPC unlike Amuro and Char. Ple two dies and no one cares again despite them rescuing her. Leina is alive again just so they could please some audience I call Bullsh*t on that one.
All in all I give it a 6.5/10 or maybe 7 would cut it. Some episodes were still good like those parts about Haman and the earth arc.
Edit: I guess, atleast Haman got good screentime on second half.
I have and will always struggle through the first 6 episodes, because the Shangri-La bit just overstays its welcome. But I also find it quite the enjoyable watch once it starts rolling. Some of the best fights and (weirdly enough) quite a lot of UC world building occurs in this series.
It is not essential viewing for the Amuro-Char triology (0079 / Zeta / CCA), but you are surely missing out on a lot skipping it all together, and i like how Unicorn has pulled ZZ back into the limelight again both with Pelu 12 & cameo's of so many great Neo Zeon MS designs.
And yes, the Shangri-La bit does overstays it welcome. 0079 episode 8 has the White Base already in full conflict with Garma, and Zeta has visited 30 Bunch and the Lila battle already. The Shangri-La takes 2 or 3 episodes to long with the 'will the protagonist be a protagonist?', while imho it already should be exploring Judeau's mindset itself. Not because it needs to be serious from the get go: I liked Mondo's and Beecha's misadventures till they make their mind up and become men of destiny themselves.
I mean the absence of a nice easy to read newtype glow that fades as she burns out in the Resara scene could be considered an animation error.
I forget that people call the 'L people' Clones 'Puru' not 'Ple', if you are a newer fan 'Pul" is also acceptable.
I call it as I hear it. They may write it Ple but it's absolutely pronounced Puru.
Gundam misspells words pretty frequently. The crates say Dangar on them.
Edit: I did not realize it was a reference to something.
I really loved ZZ Gundam, the characters were fun and surprisingly deep mind you showing friends that only watch dub shows is gonna be a pain as the dub was hidden away by Sunrise. Watching though the UC Timeline is gonna slow to a crawl as one of them took four months to watch death note dubbed. I have no idea how long it'll take to get thought ZZ Gundam Subbed.
Dub Judau is Bulk Hardcheese it's very silly how grown he sounds despite being the youngest of the early UC protags.
@@DIEGhostfish True it be silly but it be faster if it was Dubbed, some anime watchers basically refuse to watch subbed only films/shows even thou they can be really good.
The start up was too slow for me, but considering that i just finished up Gundam, after Zeta, I'll slip back into ZZ.
once you get past the first 1/3rd or so ZZ really picks up. Once the troubles start with Neo Zeon/Axis I really got into ZZ.
Plus I love the Bawoo and Hamma Hamma suits. I'd love to find the re/100 MG kits but yeah, not paying scalper pricing on ebay.
Keep up the good work man
Cheers man 🫶🏼
@@Viseak same to you
I loved ZZ. The first half was a nice break from how dark, Zeta was. The story is pretty much skip-able to chars counterattack but a couple things from ZZ do come up later in later UC stories like Unicorn. Overall I too bought into the bad rep of ZZ until I watched it. I loved a majority of the characters especially the supporting female cast members. I guess I ultimately stayed for them more so then the gundams and plot lol
Honestly, CCA skips half of its own story so is not a big deal.
You make some compelling arguments...
However, my primary reason for not liking the series is likely that I found too many of the protagonists unlikable. I can understand and respect their motivations, but Judau, Beecha, and Mondo all just came off as far too obnoxious to watch week after week. I probably watched the show until about the 10th episode before I gave up on it... initially.
I picked it up later around episode 35 and watched to the end, but was very dissatisfied. Mind you, this was all back during the show's original broadcast with no subtitles...
I watched the entire series in the early 2000s, with subtitles, in order to give the series a second chance. It was a better experience... but still not enough to change my overall feelings about the show. There were some characters that I felt better about, but that mostly just shifted my perspective from annoyance to pity.
Having a series where characters start off unlikable, but grow, mature, and are eventually redeemed is great... but if they irritate the viewing audience enough so that they stop watching... not the best strategy.
There is much that I actually appreciate about Gundam ZZ, but I can't say I really enjoyed it. I am glad that you found so many facets that were enjoyable and redeeming... and I am glad that I don't have to be the target audience for everything 😅
i would watch zz if it had an eng dub or atleast a fan dub
The “I don’t give a fuck what you have to say” subtitle is the greatest thing I have ever seen in an anime lol.
Just Finished the Series during Christmas and can say it's a Good Show! Really nice and goes hand in hand with The OG and Zeta (Heavily a must see cuz technically ZZ is S2 of Zeta)
Right? Crazy how a lot of people just write it off
I think a 4-part (not 3-part) compilation movie series would benefit ZZ if it's ever made.
I personally would still watch the TV show like I did 0079 and Zeta. I enjoy long form stories.
One missed opportunity for Double Zeta is both Amuro and Char, both never appeared in ZZ.
I felt like it was weak at first and by its end it was my favourite Gundam series. It's actually odd given I was disagreeing with the cast since I agreed with the Federation's succeeding Side 3 for peace but could also understand why the AUGE went rogue.
Roux also shouldn't have had as happy an ending she did given Glemmy's downfall was due to her.
I think Glemmy had some latent programming... Or that Gihren sociopathy taking over.
I actually prefer ZZ over Zeta.
I'll admit I almost dropped ZZ in the first 10 or 12 episodes due to the huge tone shift, but after that it's one of my favorite.
The 2nd OP is also amazing.
I'm not wrong about ZZ because I love it. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP HOW OBVIOUSLY INTENTIONAL THE WHUPLASH IS.
The show is meant to catch you off guard, it is meant to make Zeta feel so small to rub in the tragedy and it drives me nuts how people dont get why thats important. These kids are 14 and dont care about the war. Why should they give a shit. AND THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP HOW FA IS EXHAUSTED. SHES A GPOD PILOT JUST NOT GIVEN ENOUGB TRAINING BY BRIGHT.
Im also glad you brought up beecha being the reason for elle to come home
I had stint where I watched every Gundam property* from OG to IronBlood Orphans.
ZZ may not be my favorite series (though it's higher on my list than some) but Silent Voice is will always be my favorite opening.
*[Minus SD, have to circle back around and watch those]
If you read bandi's notes to sunrise, they asked for that lighter tone for kids so they could sell toys. I believe Tomino had a darker outline at first. If anything, it shows how Tomino can make lemonade by using this early tone to inform the later tone of the show.
Well, that makes a lot of sense
And yeah, it really goes to show what Tomino can pump out when push comes to shove. And when he’s in more of the right headspace
16:56 Gotton was such a short sighted guy for that. He didn't know she'd lied to him, so he was burning a useful asset for nothing. Different from his otherwise competent role.
I enjoyed this video, I'm a fan of ZZ. I think one of the things that happens is the initial whiplash, and sometimes it's enough to be a turn off. Yu-Gi-Oh GX started so light hearted that you'd wonder if it was related to Duel Monsters. 5D's was much more serious and beloved but then there was Zexal what started even more light hearted that again was a turn off for some.
It's ok to like what you like and I'm glad you watched it and asked other people to do more than parrot other's talking points.
Most underrated Gundam.
I never understood the majority POV on ZZ. I personally thought it was one of the best Gundam series, currently rewatching it because I love it that much.
I do think something should have happened to Beecha and Mondo, i wouldnt go as far to say death, but something that would have shaken them to the core to show them that they were playing with the wrong side of history; cant believe they didnt even get the Bright slap.
ZZ Zeta is my second favorite Gundam series.
ZZ is probably one of my favorite shows of the mainline. You just have to wait through a few episodes for a bit and then you reach the good stuff and watch amazing growth and it becomes truly amazing. I do think it did need its start to break the thick wave of sadness Z left us off with. It has some of my favorite characters of Ple, Haman, heck most of the cast as they grow and develop.
I had the same issues with the 3 piece system in ZZ as i did in MSG (and victory but I'm taking a while to watch it). It's cool if you see the purpose of quick exchange of broken or damaged parts to sortie quicker but launching it in pieces in combat seems a recipe of disaster. In other series such as Moon and Sentinel they try to remedy this issue by having Theta Plus have a better system to control the parts remotely and S Gundam having a computer control everything so even extra pilots was unnecessary.
Id like to point out thoo, as much as haman looks and feels way older than she is by personality and other stuff, people forget haman in zz is just 21, i dont think haman was trying to just manipulate Judau, why? Haman is always alone she only has subordinates, nobody she would consider her equal and she in her lonely position, by chance she find another newtype someone that unlikely kamille dosnt come at her with an adult cinicism, but an actual positive figure with potential, why I say she is emotionally involved? Simple haman to the end tried to convince him to join her and even doing stuff the usual cold haman woudnt do, she emotionally wanted someone to actually understand her, considering the only person that she had a good relationship with went away and left her alone, it’s easy to forget haman was the daughter of the leader of axis when it was just a colony of zeon and considering she had to step up into leadership at the death of her father and contend with a ton of zeon’s at the time already crumbling and backstabbing political side, likely around the age of 16/17 u can see why haman is so jaded, and do to both being newtypes when she met judau she found someone that was the same as her, what do I mean? Judau’s parents are absent he is preaty much by his corrent age which is not even over 18 iiirc he is around 15/16 and he is already preaty much forced to work for money to keep his sister and him from starving and to try to live a better life, unlike haman tho judau never completely bent to the world because he had actual friends unlike haman that was always alone and the only figure that gave her security of someone being equal to her and a friend(cause by the way they never specify what kind of relationship haman and char had many think romantic but it’s never outright stated) u can see haman was vulnerable to judau cause judau reminded her of herself when she was younger, sure haman wanted judau for also political and power means but in her final moments she did all stuff she woudnt do, neo zeon was preaty much over why would she still try to convince judau to side with her? Simple haman told herself she wanted judau for the political side of stuff but in reality haman wanted just someone that would understand her and be by her side as an equal, and what simbolizes this the best is her final words instead of going out screaming in anger or sorrow, her final words are: i am glad i came back. To me it seems that she indeed had feelings for judau but I’d like to hear what u think tbh.
Judau's 15 though. He's built as hell, so people forget he's the *youngest* of the three early UC protags.
I like ZZ. I'll admit it has flaws, but the final product is something worth watching. I'd call it my top Gundam show, but Re:Rise took over. lol
Also, I'm interested in your take on Victory. How bad can any Gundam be versus the show that the creator itself wrote to get the franchise cancelled.
You really did accomplish your goal in motivating me to watch ZZ after putting it off for so long.
I just have to finish Zeta, first
You can NOT watch and truly understand Char’s Counterattack without watching ZZ. It does start slow and is very goofy at the start and at its core.
Centering the story around Judau and his friends like you said was very deliberate. But not for the reasons you may think. I have a theory that Judau and his friends are the direct personification of what Char talks about in Zeta Gundam. “A world where Newtypes live and work together harnessing their newtype gifts.” If you watch the show from start to finish and realize that Kamille literally awakens Judau’s newtype potential at the start of the show and he goes on to grow his power as each episode passes. To the point that by the end he’s able to project his “pressure” throughout the universe. His power is so great that Haman is left shaking in terror after witnessing it.
You’re cheating yourself if you don’t watch this series after Zeta and before Char’s Counterattack.
I like that interpretation and it definitely fits.
Plus you’re right, people are definitely cheating themselves if they skip out on ZZ
@@Viseak it’s so much fun. I also like how at the start as I mentioned when Judau sees Kamille for the first time at the beginning and Kamille immediately senses his dormant power and “unlocks” it. It’s wild that to end Zeta Scirocco crippled Kamille’s mind.. only for him to low key be amped in ZZ and gain even more depth to his Newtype power.
Yes you can. I only need to tell you 2 things and you are good to go continuing with Char's Counter Attack
Haman dies
The surviving Ple clone continues her story in Unicorn Gundam
That's it. None of the major and important UC characters are directly affected by ZZ.
It is safe to skip to such a degree, that Zeta Gundam New Translation retconed Kamille's fate so you can skip ZZ. I still recommend the oirginal Zeta Gundam, skip ZZ if it becomes chore (and with that dumb comedy and stupidity most of the time...) at the very lest skip for the sake and decency of Bright Noa who's character was greatly insulted in this trash.
@@desireless4092thanks for your input, casual.
@@ttravis10 anytime soy-boy
As someone who think's there's a lot to like about ZZ, my big take is that it's the first entry to the franchise that's really only notable because it's part of Gundam. If the titular robot was "The Great Space Defender Bawoo" it's legacy would be that of a pretty average, but mostly forgotten footnote in the history of anime (with some pretty awesome 80's mecha designs).
My recollection is that Zeta Gundam's success got ZZ greenlit somewhere around halfway through it's run, and it shows. It's pretty obvious that the production staff were working on a timeline of weeks, rather than Zeta Gundam's months/years. This is a shame since all of the issues the show has with tone, characterization, and the plot feeling directionless things that could of been fixed or turned into strengths if the show had more time in the planning stage.
Im one of those people who love ZZ.
The biggest issue with ZZ is that ZZ is in some ways responsible for the dark ending of Zeta. Because they needed to cleansweep some of the cast.
Please do a video essay on samurai champloo and escaflowne 😊😅😮😢🎉😂❤
If sunrise decided to make a ZZ Gundam Trilogy just like Z Gundam had, they probably need to tone down the goofiness of ZZ Gundam,it could possibly make the series gain positive review unlike the OG ZZ Gundam
I just finished ZZ Gundam purely because of this video and I thought it was wayyy more entertaining than Zeta. I never thought the silly comedy in ZZ was too much and having it made the characters feel a lot more interesting and fleshed out. I almost quit Zeta because I found it so boring and the characters so flat, but I felt invested in ZZ from the start. Honestly, aside from 08th MS Team, Double Zeta is probably my favorite Universal Century installment, and that includes Char's Counter Attack
The problem with the ZZs transformation isn't that it's impractical, it's that they didn't animate one of it's forms at all except a few times in the hangar. If Judau had launched in the G Fortress mode instead of in a sole core fighter with 2 others in the Core Top/Bottom, it would have freed up 2 pilots and been vastly more useful in fights. Hell, even if he'd launched in one half, with Iino in the other, that's still better than needing 3 seperate pilots and the main pilot being in JUST a core fighter. The G Fortress is a great mobile armor mode, they just never used it in the show. Iirc when Beecha and Mondo go to take the ZZ at one point it's hanging in the Argama IN G Fortress mode, and they transform into mobile suit mode to escape. Having the ZZ be able to seperate into an escape craft like the OG Gundam is smart, you see why plenty of times in Thunderbolt. The problem is they always launch separately, then combine, unlike the G Armor/Gundam from 0079 which launched combined and then seperates when needed
I can never say ZZ was bad, besides fleshing the Queen of Tsuendere that is Haman, it introduced Roux Louka...and MAN I loves me some Roux Louka, easily one of the best side characters and copilots in a Gundam series...easily blows the stench of failure that was Fa, seriously they went with FA as their first choice on the Argama and waited until thing hit the fan to finally invite Roux?! Lol...
Zz is really good
Episode 1 is good then its bad till episode 18 and becomes pure gold
the way i see it ZZ is appropriately affected by all of zetas flaws and strengths two fold the highs are higher but the lows are lower.
ZZ Gundam is my 2nd favorite Gundam after Crossbone Gundam
17:19 Honestly she probably could ahve crammed the bomb into the gap between the armor and the joint and jumped. Yeah it MIGHT have fallen but if a bomb that small could blow the outer surface of the lunar cities open the cities would have been destroyed long ago.
Okay, so I just got finished watching all of Zeta, and the three New Translation movies... and went back to give ZZ yet another try...
So, I just watched the first two episodes, and I have to say that the "tonal whiplash" is a serious problem still.
There is much that I would love to debate, but this really isn't a great venue for that conversation...
Yknow, we agree about the weirdest things. I got to the channel bc I vehemently disagreed with your FE:Awakening take but then later agreed with your AoT take. Granted, I've seen only this and Gundam00, so maybe I just don't have much to go on, but still. Now, I am the kid that preferred Robotech to Gundam, so maybe agreeing about this series isn't great 😂
Edit: I do believe there was 1 other Gundam series I saw, but now I can't think of the name.
Hahaha maybe I was just too harsh on Awakening lmao
Robotech / Macross was great in its own right so I can’t blame you there. Might need to do a video on it at some point too 🤔
@@Viseak
From a *totally* not biased point of view, you were definitely too harsh about Awakening. Totally not biased bc it was my first FE game though
That would be AWESOME!!!!
@@hinata1ize haha I may have been a teeny bit biased too
Wasn’t really Awakenings fault it wasn’t 3H, and it wasn’t really fair to judge it based on my enjoyment of 3H
Guess that just means FE as a whole wasn’t reeeaaally for me, just the 3H formula lol (although I did enjoy echoes SOV, still not as much as 3H tho)
Only on episode 12... so i wont watch your whole video right now. But Im enjoying ZZ a lot... sadly the Crunchyroll comments don't agree with me. But glad to see that some others do 😊
Look I Know that double Zeta has a good amount of stuff in it and I agree, but I just can't get Over the fact that the first half is just a lot of nonsense that I can't Really get into it until we get to the second half where it's like OK OK I can roll with this now. And like I said The show does have some good things in it like Double zeta itself, Roux Luka, Judau is a fun protagonist and Haman is amazing...... Her stupid death notwithstanding though my friend and I will still make fun of that death lol. However for all those good things there is a couple of bad like the entirety of the first half, the tone and even Beecha exists. Plus I was gonna add in the fact that a certain mama's boy who was after Roux existed but at the very least he died by her hands so that was a victory. All I'm gonna say is double Zeta is a mixed bag of a series and it could be worse it could have been like WFM and i'd rather it not be like WFM or most of the modern gundam series lol. Great video as always!
I wouldn’t go so far as to call it the whole first half nonsense (although sure, there are some nonsensical moments), but I think a break from the rigid and gritty nature of Gundam was a breath of fresh air that entirely made sense for a group of essentially orphaned kids who hadn’t yet truly experienced war.
Sure they caught strays from it, they’re clearly doing it a little rough on Shangri-La, but they hadn’t yet seen anything first hand to really make them take anything seriously, and I feel like the shows tone reflects that. It’s a little jarring, sure. But the new perspective we get works as a perfect way to deconstruct what Gundam had built up thus far, and build it back up again towards the end of the show.
With all that being said though, I can’t deny the start is STILL a hard pill to swallow for some, and that’s fine, but I think in retrospect after seeing the series as a whole, it’s kinda justified and makes sense.
I’m curious what your thoughts are on WFM though 🤔
I finally caught up with it last week after putting off watching it all this time and… I’ve actually really enjoyed it
@@Viseak To make a very long story short as I kind of got attacked by some people who say that this was the best written gundam show in the series...... I personally have to disagree only because the prologue got me so hypee up to a lot of interesting and cool ideas only for the rest of the first season to feel like a total drag. Like don't get me wrong one character I really like has the best character development out of every single character in the show, I do like Suletta and some of the mobile suits are cool but however my main issue stems from the fact that that's just 1 character as everybody else just feels like they're just there to fulfill a purpose and nothing more than that. Plus I feel like that we spent way too much time in the school setting instead of actively setting up a story so by the time we get to the final 2 episodes of season one it's like yes we finally picked up the Pace but it came at the cost of waiting so long for something to actually happen. Which is why I never bothered watching season 2 and only came across some scenes in passing like how the one character I like is still the only 1 to have a really good character arc while everyone else including our main heroine just fell out for me. Like yes season 2 did basically give some characters stuff to do but I wish it happened during season one or was properly built up rather than just toss to the wayside so we can focus on things that don't really matter or like IBO season 2 make everyone be stupid just to make the main villain be smarter. That's just my opinion but I did at least give season one a chance, I do like Suletta despite my personal issues with her as a Protagonist and her growth and that one dark skinned girl....wooof is she fine lol.
@@MrDarksol It’s pretty fucked you got attacked for an opinion on a show lmao
I guess that’s just how the internet goes some times I suppose 😅
It all comes down to personal biases at the end of the day though, like anyone saying WFM is the best Gundam ever written probably just hasn’t seen enough Gundam. Or it was just their first Gundam. Same argument as I bloody have for people who obsess over the Azure Moon route in FE3H 😭
Needless to say though, I still think WFM is pretty good, and hopefully it sticks the landing even though it’s really ramped up far too quickly at the end here. But I don’t think it’s peak storytelling or anything. I mean as a LOT of people have pointed out, it’s clearly heavily inspired by/borderline a retelling of The Tempest. Im not really a Shakespeare guy but it’s hard to deny the impact of the guys work and just as hard to fuck up a story based off one so highly acclaimed.
With that being said, maybe I had a different opinion cause I didn’t start with the prologue…
I didn’t realise the prologue even existed until the end of season 1.
So my watch order was S1 -> Prologue -> Season 2
Which was actually really cool.
Everything felt like such a mystery and things were being ever so slowly unraveled then BOOM I watch the prologue and so many puzzle pieces click together but I’m also still kinda confused then BOOM season 2’s Aerial reveal and then it just keeps hitting and hitting and hitting until where we’re at now.
Which is just going a little too fast, but we’ll have to wait and see what happens next.
I get what you’re saying about the characters though but I feel like it’s more than just a Suletta story. At bare minimum I feel like it’s a Suletta & Miorine story.
With S1 being more Miorine focused and setting up Suletta to get the help she needed and take more focus in S2.
But again I get what you mean about it being just a Suletta story cause it DOES kind of feel like a lot of characters are in there purely to fuel her growth. Like Guel and Elan and the entirety of the earth house. They literally helped her tick items off her little bucket list that’s how in your face it was they were there to help her grow.
But even so, I did enjoy what these characters brought to the table themselves, especially Guel and his whole mini earth arc.
I get what you mean about S1 though, but I can’t say I hated it.
The best way I can describe it, is that it gave me Zoids Fuzors vibes (but in a good way). It’s like WFM is what Fuzors could have/should have been. Obviously instead of fighting for money and such you’re fighting in school but it’s still essentially for sport. Then of course there’s clearly something dark brewing in the background. A little mystery if you will.
Then there’s the quick introduction of the new overpowered mech that flips everything on its head, in Fuzors case, Fuzors, and in WFM’s case, Gundam’s.
But then Gundam takes a far better approach flipping the entire show on its head to create an all out damn war with a million spoilers I shouldn’t mention. Whereas Fuzors just kept doing the same boring thing and went nowhere with its plot threads, plus of course, it looked terrible.
Honestly though I’d rate giving S2 of WFM a go if you haven’t already. The first ep is a little slow but that’s it, it immediately picks up from there and doesn’t let you go.
@@Viseak I might give season 2 a watch but considering my thoughts about season one combined with most of what I've heard from someone who has been watching season 2 it's probably just gonna be a wait until It is over and maybe binge watch It and I say hardcore maybe. But oh don't get me started on the azure moon route from 3 houses as I still have friends who proclaim it as the best route in that whole game and another friend who proclaims that Claude's route was the best in the whole game....... You notice the complete lack of anyone saying anything nice to a certain red emperor lol.
nah man, Glemy is an awesome Antagonist
This. Is. So. True!
ZZ is one of my favorite series because of how Realistic it gets
I gave Double Zeta a chance last month and glad I did. After the Argama gets back into space it improves and the second half is some of the best Gundam has to offer. Also Judau is the best pilot out of the original 3, and my favorite so far. It’s the weakest out of the original 3 series, but imho has too much undeserved hate. It’s a solid B- show in my book
ZZ gundam is offensive to the original’s message and story
I mean this in the best possible way, has anyone ever told you you kinda look like misha from boyboy if he got hit with a twinkification beam.
LMFAO you’re the second person that’s tied me to him now, had someone else ask me if I was his brother or something 😭
And twinkification cmon 💀
Forst and foremost, ZZ is NOT anime... and it has the best OP of UC gundam
I just finished it, the ending is solid and overall I liked the second half. The early slapstick comedy was horrid, and the colony drop served no military or political goal and came out of nowhere. If you ignore the drop, Haman Karn is barely evil in this show and I rooted for her for a few episodes. The AEUG lost their raison d'etre when the Titans were wiped out, and I do appreciate the characters questioning if they are on the right side or not.
Let’s be real guys, ZZ gundam is really just about bright dodging women.
Haven't seen the complete video but, I do totally agree with you... the Gundam fandom treats ZZ too harshly. It ain't just good its great, especially it's later half where things get more darker and grim than Zeta... Also Roux Luca, peak Gundam waifu.
Its not terrible but "very good" is a little stretch.
Like how it ignores the established lore, like how Hanma just waltz into Dakar with 3 ships and conquers the capital of the Earth Federation when the entire Zeon forces couldn't do that in the One Year War.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
It is overhated but not underrated.
Its no suprise Judau never shows up again.
No... No, no.... Yes... there WAS manipulation there, no doubt about there... but there was the Newtype connection there. It was NOT just about using him. Don't delude yourselves... She had complicated feelings about Judau... that were more than platonic. Just accept it.
I'm not defending her, I'm just saying. They were there.....
I loved ZZ because of Judo. He's refreshing compared to Kamille whom I found quite annoying.
Judau is Suuuuper
sorry im wrong for not liking the clothes on the characters that much. like you go from military uniform coolness to 80s rocker vibes like that aint me. sorry im wrong for telling people not to skip it cuz the ending is fantastic. sorry im wrong for thinking it's just as important part in the timeline
ZZ is the "divisive" one but to be honest almost much every Gundam show past the original is "divisive" in some way. Tell me if youve heard one of these before
ZZ is too goofy
Zeta is too boring/dark
F91 is a mess
08th MS Team and CCA are carried by animation
Wing doesn't hold up past the nostalgia
G is bad cause its different
Turn A and Victory are too weird and boring
SEED and SEED Destiny ... I mean do i need even to say anything?
IBO and 00 fall off after season 2 or people say IBO had a bad ending
Unicorn is too dumb
Witch is bad cause *politics*
etc etc..... honestly the only Gundam show that *Isn't* divisive is X and thats probably only cause barely anyone has actually seen
Would you say that ZZ Gundam is like this franchise's equivalent to DBGT?
Not really. GT was not even "canon". ZZ is the official sequel to Z. Also, GT is more disliked than ZZ.
@@juresaiyan Ah interesting that ZZ is better liked because I have seen some people complain about it. And you are very much correct when you say that ZZ is canon, whereas GT is not.
Question: Can I skip Gundam ZZ and go ahead to watch Char's Counterattack movie? Char and Amuro Ray is not in the series which I don't understand why they are in the OP. I heard so many time how bad it was and just not your standard Gundam......Recently coming in as a MSG UC timeline fan I preferred my MSG series to be more serious, grounded dark military action thriller with a bit of twists and turns backstabbing drama.
Do you actually like Gundam ZZ or you just trying to make everybody watch it😂 jk lol.
Hahaha I mean technically, you could skip it, and I get wanting to get to that highly acclaimed film sooner cause it is a treat to watch, but even so, I still recommend watching ZZ all the way through.
I genuinely really enjoyed my time by the end, I rate it far higher than the likes of 0079, but not as good as something like Zeta.
Haman Karn is a really interesting antagonist to see through to the end, and it does give context to the events of CCA PLUS gives you heaps of references when you get to Unicorn
@@Viseak Thank you so much for taking the time to respond back. Do you get enough of Haman Karn and Darwin's little girl in Zeta or not? I watched the 0079 Movie Trilogy and not the series coming off of Origns which easier. At the end of the prequel it slides right into the movies and the voice actors pretty much almost sound the same. I know they changed the dialogue from the original to the movies to make the dubbed so much better. I'm still not going to watch ZZ, but instead go on the Wiki to read the summary or watch some TH-camr channel😂 haha!
You can 100% skip it.
Zeta leads into CCA.
Before Sunrise gave Tomino the greenlight for CCA- Char and Amuro were supposed to appear in ZZ (but I'm not sure if they were going to be the main focus had they been included).
It's not good, it's OK. The haters of the show are dead wrong though.
I’d go so far as to say it’s good, it just has some things that hold it back from being great.
And you’re right, the haters are wild
So damn true
It really is the most under-appreciated Gundam
I think puru has been interesting at times but i dont really like the way she is depicted at times.
I'm glad I didn't skip ZZ, because CCA was an utter disappointment
for people who doesnt want to waste their time with filer , please skip ZZ its bad and boring and it bring nothing on the table
No, if there's one thing ZZ isn't it's anime! Anime ja nai!
ZZ drops the ball in the first part and that was its deathknell.
My problem was timing. I watched Zeta as my first series, in an anime club, monthly while it was coming out. Afterwards, ZZ starts, and I'm excited to see a continuation, only to get a lukewarm comedy series that turns into sort of a remake of the One Year War. Wound up hating the characters that were introduced during the comedic bits, really disliking what they did with Haman and Gremy, and only sort of enjoying the last four episodes. CCA was great, if rushed, but ZZ drives me nuts to this day.
Kids acting like kids isn't dumb.
The stupid Looney Toons sound effects and slapstick comedy for 25 episodes is dumb.