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Sony FX6 Using Pro Res Raw | Is It Worth It?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2024
- #sonyfx6 #atomosninjav #proresraw
This video will compare the sony fx6 xavcs-I coded to the external Pro res raw that you can get on the atomos ninja V recorder with an SSD, we go through the setup, color grading workflow, and a footage comparison.
0:00 Intro
1:39 Sony FX6 Pro Res Raw Workflow
7:08 Comparisson
**I am not a colorist, I'm a junior at best, so some of the workflow and grading could be done better, I just did this for the sake of education and comparison.
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🎥SONY FX6 SETUP
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Couple of notes regarding the color spaces as you got many errors there. Hope to clear this up for people searching for information. Since you defined DWG as your timeline color space, your tools will correspond to that. But for some reason you converted your footage to Slog3 make the tools not align with your conversion. Furthermore you convert it to ARRI Logc which basically does nothing but shifting colors (doesn't give you more flexibility).
Your best option would be to to set the clip RAW settings to Blackmagic Design Film, do a CST from BMD Film to DWG. Do all your adjustments in DWG color space (since you set this as your timeline color space) and convert it to Slog3 before applying your LUT that was designed for that specific color space (may differ if you actually designed it for ARRI logc3).
Also a note: Gamma 2.4 is for TV, Broadcast and Cinema. You'd use Rec709 (or Rec709-A for Mac) if you upload this online. Otherwise you will have color shifts due to incorrect Gamma tags. (TH-cam will automatically convert it to gamma 2.2 (aka Rec709) and it looks washed out since you exported Gamma 2.4
The more ya know ! Thanks 👍🏾
Hello i was wondering exatly which blackmagic film color space and gamma are u reffering to since i convert to dwg too and then to slog3 but none of the blackmagic once dont look as they are supposed to
All I saw in your tests was that the ProRes RAW has a touch more detail and clarity but it's something that most clients would never notice. I shot a huge documentary mostly with CRL in the C200 and in post, it's been a bit of a nightmare with file size storage requirements and editing requirements. The images look good but we ended up with almost 100TB of footage. If we had budget and could hire an AE or two to help our editors deal with the RAW, it would be worth it but we don't have the editor resources to throw at it.
I would only use a RAW workflow for projects where you simply aren't going to shoot a ton of footage, commercial, music video, promo type stuff. For long form or projects where you're going to need to shoot a ton of footage like documentaries or long form other content, I simply don't think RAW is worth the extra hassle and money at all.
Thats kinda what I was saying, its nice if you have it, you wont DIE if you don't, but I have it so I use it :D
I’m a new fx6 user and your videos have been amazing, keep it up!
Oh man I appreciate it ! Thank you!
Lately it's the only way I've been shooting with my FX6. I skipped the extension unit for my FX9 and also use RAW shooting with our A1. I love the workflow and converting RAW to CDNG is making editing a breeze! Can't go back to internal recording anymore lol
I wish I had the hard drives for that ahah
Could you convert the ProRes Raw back to h.264/h.265? Just to bypass Sony’s in camera noise reduction - then you’d have the small files without the mushy NR
Wow this video just made me second guess myself about getting into videography. I am a photographer that is dabbling with video. I setup my a7iv with the atomos ninja v and been dabbling with s-log 3. And seeing you edit pro res raw made me scratch my head on everything you did to edit it. I am just playing around with LumaFusion on my iPad Pro doing some simple editing. But I didn’t realize everything that goes into everything raw video. Great video by the way I love the channel.
It comes in time ! There’s tons of tutorials out !
Normally you don't start of shooting raw, you move up to it. Just like in photography
@@viceroyvisuals oh no doubt. His video showed all the crazy stuff you can do to raw video that I had any clue about what can be done. Short video clips for weddings and simple product videos is all I plan on doing.
Can’t recall if this was already noted within this video, but another benefit to ProRes RAW on the FX6, via the Ninja recorder, is the ability to get a slightly higher resolution (4.2K).
I think maybe in a different video but good point!
Don’t see the huff n Puff for ProRes Raw and I’ve got the shogun Inferno that paired up good with my FS5ii. Now with the fx6 it’s more of a luxury. I use the shinobi monitor for my fx6. Does the job
I shot Pro res raw for awhile but eventually switched to Pro Res 422 for the reduced file size
Pro res is pretty nice too !
I like the raw shadows better, but the xavci highlights better.
It's my understanding that your codec does not change your dynamic range. Slog3 is the same DR in raw as it is in All-I as it is in HEVC, as it is in H.264. As long as you have 10 bits to work with your codec shouldn't break when grading,
Well, prores raw does not have a gamma curve, until you develop it in the computer. So you can develop your footage into other log curves. Althogh slog3 has more dynamic range than any Sony camera on the market can do(I think it can contain up to 17 stops) Raw might not give you more dynamic range, but it definally more forgiving, bring back over and under exposed shots and fix white balance issues in post.
@@qiyuxuan9437 do you have examples of highlight recovery? If it’s clipped it’s clipped no? White balance should be fine as you’re in the ball park
@@NakeanWickliff Well, I dont have one yet, but I'm gonna do a compareson shot maybe this weekend.
Great job, i really like your videos !
I have a question, Sony SFX6 can be used to shoot movies ? I would like to shoot a long format fiction movie ( not documentary) using the orion lenses.
I’m sure you won’t have a problem
Not possible, camera stops after you tell it that you want to shoot a movie, workaround: tell it you shot a documentary and then shoot a movie.
Awesome bro! I've been tempted to use Pro Res RAW for a while now, maybe it's time....
If you have the drive space, see if you like it !
A7s3 benefits greatly from prores raw, as NR and sharpening are badly tuned, but on fx6 I'm not so sure. I already like the fx6 image on internal recording. Something that I never liked on a7s3.
Ive actually never used an siii but that does make sense
I’ve been looking for a comparison of FX6 internal NR vs ProRes RAW out of the a7Siii/FX3/FX6 with a little NR in post. Does the A7Siii/FX3 have internal sharpening that you can’t turn off as well as NR?
Nice one. Would you recommend buying a ninja v to shot pro res raw on a Sony fx30 ? Is it worth the money ?
That mode depends on the clients you have paying for it fbh
informative 10mins on sony fx6 workflow.
Thanks ! Appreciate it !
I’ve been looking for a video like this.
Can you make a video where you compare the same clips in editing and show how much you can push and pull the same clip in RAW vs XAVC-I
I did already ! I have a few grading videos on XAVC-I on the channel from lut workflow to skin tones! I’ll try to work on a direct versus see how it goes
@@KofiYeboah great! I’ll look them up.
I’m working on a short film soon and trying to figure out if it’s worth renting an external recorder! Great job on the videos!
Thanks for this video! Can you do 120fps with the ninja V?
Not in Raw, no
I shoot raw all the time for no reason in my studio and fx3. But conversion is easy in Final Cut Pro.
Yeah it’s a lot easier on Apple native programs, on DVR honestly I got used to it. When I do decide to use it 😅
How do we convert pro res raw 16 bit from sony fx6 for davinci on windows work flow?
I’m not entirely sure since I’m only on max but I’d assume the same wya
I use neither. Tried to justify XAVC-I vs XAVC HS (HEVC) and pulled screenshots/frames and the XAVC HS is flawless enough to me. Maybe if I work on high budget projects then "might" try it out but doubt it. And due to the vulnerable nature of LOG footage I just shoot in HLG3 which is pretty good especially for wildlife where you don't have that much wiggle room for mistakes and you can manage to lift the shadows pretty high without introducing as much noise as SLog3. SLog3 in my opinion is like art, when you have full control of the situation it's worth it but I think you can get plausible results even with HLG3 which has the dynamic range of around SLog2 according to Gerald Undone's test but way superior in detail recoverability from my tests.
Had videos sent to me from overseas with auto white balance and severely uneven exposure which is a nightmare to any. The guy was shocked of how the footage looked 95-99% similar across all clips after editing. And to make things worse they were using internal mic, but thanks to DaVinci's new voice isolation (set to 80%) and some EQ the results shocked me in a great way.
SLog3 might have a wider color gamut, but even Rec.2020 is still way higher than any TV's capabilities until this day and serves to be a good upgrade over DP3 and a massive one over Rec.709.
Oh my. That footage sounds like a TH-cam "1 video VS 5 colorists" challenge. What a nightmare.
@@ElMeach Well, threw like 3-4 days on it and you can manage it. Gladly the guy had some white hair to re-adjust the white balance and green/magenta shift. Good thing I told him to shoot in HLG3, and despite being 8-bit it was manageable which I was scared it won't be fixed vs a7SIII 10-bit so that I might need to wait for like another month or 2 for a reshoot. The guy is a very good photographer but never uses video on a7III. So if you're working with someone overseas HLG3 could literally save the day. Not surewhy but could be HDR metadata embedded in it? Or Rec.2020 has way more information than people seem to appreciate.
@@Bo_Hazem sometimes I have to edit on location low budget and with low power laptop and don't want to invest a lot on big data drives for those projects. Client doesn't care for quality, he just wants it to be delivered as fast as possible, so hlg3 seems a good idea to have a pseudo log alternative. Any recommendations when working with it?
@@ElMeach Yeah I could say HLG3 is noob-proof, but if you are on location and can't adjust white balance manually for some reason (time is against you) the AEL button should be your friend as it locks everything until you press it again as you know changing any aspect of exposure while filming is a nightmare. Just be sure to transfer the color gamut and color space from Rec.2020/BT.2100 to Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 on your editing software. If you are on DaVinci Resolve just use the DaVinci Resolve wide gamut for input and Rec.709 or Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 for output. Sometimes you get funny results so you would need to color gamut transfer the clip in the color page manually, but it rarely happens. If you think that this is too much hassle then you could as well just assign your HLG3 color space to Rec.709, although I never tried that because I think you might be limiting yourself that way.
For example, S-Gamut3 and S-Gamut3.Cine are wider than Rec.2020 (BT.2020), and both are extremely wider than Rec.709 (google it to see the graph). So that's what gives you the freedom of color manupilation as you have way more color information than Rec.709, especially when shot in 10-bit or even better raw. Today there are some screens happy to have reached DP3 which is wider than Rec.709 but still noticeably narrower than Rec.2020, so I think HLG is a bit under appreciated probably because most pros sell their LUT's for SLOG3 and tend to downplay HLG(3). The biggest benifit you get as well is that it has HDR metadata so you can easily remaster your videos in HDR if you feel so. You can do that with SLOG3 but takes time and more experience. For a wildlife videographer that's kinda big deal as well as HLG HDR does remap to every HDR TV while SDR version is still there, hence "Hybrid Log Gamma". So whether your TV is 500nits or 2000nits, the content should remap its HDR metadata accordingly.
I got stressed reading that ahah, that all sounds like a wild time
You don’t need to set the project camera raw to Sony RAW since you decode using “clip”
And fyi, prores raw encodes linearly, and when you decode the CDNG to P3 D60 then that becomes your Color space. No need for slog CST.
I did like your video tho! Just sharing some thoughts!
Cheers!
The S log cst was mostly for using a Sony lut just for the sake of accuracy 😅you’re right though , thanks !!👀
Great, informative video…thank you!! Which monitor are you using?
🙏🏾Ninja V!
@@KofiYeboah Hi Kofi. Thank you for the reply. By "monitor" I mean the monitor you use with your computer. I'm debating getting a true HDR monitor to use with my MacBook.
I was debating this for a while I have to get an átomos
It has a bunch of great features !
Sony needs to secretly release a "hacked" firmware that allows internal compressed RAW
We’d love that 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Facts 😂
Red has the patent on internal compressed raw.
Yes you’re correct
Will converting your footage to all those different color spaces degrade the footage? I still don’t understand why you added so many could you explain more? I’ve never seen anyone do that
Kinda hard to explain , but no it doesn’t ! Because you’re working in a wide colour space (the first step) basically we set it up to know where the raw comes from, then set it to the color/gamma of pro res raw, then change it to Sony for the lut, then to arri, truthfully, you could do without the ARRI cst, that’s just something I like doing, but you shouldn’t use resolution no
I think you're confusing RAW with a LOG workflow. XAVC-I and RAW should have the exact same dynamic range as it is defined by the sensor. It will have more information overall, but in my understanding it cannot physically have a wider dynamic range.
Also what you are referring to as a "RAW workflow" seems to be a LOG workflow (vs working with Rec.709 footage).
Overall, as others have pointed out, there's a lot of unnecessary / incorrect stuff going on in your workflow.
I think for those reasons most of this video is very misleading, but I appreciate the effort and I think your pictures are awesome! You're a great cinematographer
I’m not always right and I’m definitely not a colorist, I can only offer experiences and my own opinions 😊 it’s almost about a year ago, so I may have an updated video on what I’ve learned since
Thanks for checking in !
Please tell us amore about your new experiences on this@@KofiYeboah
you also have to pay $100 or so to access ProRes RAW on the Ninja V pretty wild
Pay the cost to be the boss I guess 😅
Better skin tones on prores raw right
It is easy to grade!
The node tree is wrong on so many levels
A lot of confusion in the color space management. I suggest you add a note and correct because begginers are already confused enough ;) PLUS what's that mess with the nodes (I feel like my mother entering my teenage room)
Ok
I’m too ignorant and non-specific for anything like pro res raw
It’s a learning curve
I don’t see the benefit of ProRes raw
It’s a bit more flexible but honestly it’s one of those things where if no body told you , you probably wouldn’t be bothered about not having jt
Considering I work primarily in Adobe Premiere, ProRes Raw has almost zero noticeable difference. I'm sure things are different if working in FCPX, but for me, it's just way more storage space + a few extra steps in post for no real gain.
@@SuLu_B different strokes !
@@KofiYeboah For sure -- we shot a ton on FS5 and 7s in film school so I'm very comfortable with the internal Sony recordings. I'd be happy to shoot raw if a client wants to pay extra for it though 😂
Worth trying. Lots of recovery possible with less destructive menu under the camera raw tab in color workspace
No!
Lol
Bro, you need to learn better color management. Go watch Cullen Kelly.
Ok 👍🏾
„Flaw“
Get outta here
Call security and I’ll leave