Oof yeah. I had a character who was originally going to be a bad guy and an abusive boyfriend, but than I began to like the character more though and thought about letting him giving him redemption, but than I want him to be with the girl. That he abused. Yeah you know what if I like him so much and to be with the girl let’s just throw out abuse. Fuck it. It was an interesting plot point, but I want the characters to be together and you can’t have both.
@@datroy3647 There is actually one way you can give an abuser a redemption arc and have him be with the girl he abused; make it so that the abuse wasn't one-sided. The uncomfortable truth about abusive relationships is that it's very rare for only one person to be abusive, often times you'll have one person who is physically or verbally abusive and one person who is verbally abusive themselves or emotionally unstable. Relationships almost never start out as abusive, they'll usually become toxic and become abusive if one or both of the people involved aren't willing to leave or change for one reason or another. There's actually a ton of ways you could make that relationship dynamic really interesting. You could have the boyfriend come back from his redemption arc having learned that he had a lot of anger issues that he didn't know how to deal with in a healthy or constructive way, and you could have the girl come to terms with the fact that she invited the abuse to some extent because at some level she believed she deserved it. Rather than taking the easy way out and take the abuse out completely you could instead make it about two deeply flawed people being given a second chance at happiness.
ManiaMac1613 Eh, I was planning on basing it on my own experience. I mean I could be a bitch sometimes, but it was nowhere near like equal. He did have a lot of mental illness issues which is probably why he did it, but I don’t forgive him. I wasn’t willing to leave he wasn’t willing to change. After 2 years or mostly mental abuse and manipulation I just left. There’s no way I could make him like my ex and make the other character stay. I don’t care how much he’s changed once you do that to someone you can’t be with them. I have ptsd and even if he has changed I’m afraid to be in the same room as him.
Or that it's a harem; that's also a thing. The whole point is to have multiple possible pairings for people to ship. Though admittedly, the author usually does have an OTP in mind, and it's usually obvious.
@@jachyra4 yeah I'm kind of guilty with that in my WIP. Problem is, I'm kinda forcing myself about the OTP a couple of characters work great together and all options have their own advantages and disadvantages. I know i won't make a cent out of that fumbly mess I'm writing but it would have more ships than the US navi. It HAS more ships. I mean what do you expect if you lock a guy with 6 girls in a haunted mansion? Most likely an orgy.
My jam: First kiss is a half-drunk/rushed/awkward/fumbling mess. Later the two meet up and say 'let's try that again'. Perfected Second Kiss is my trope.
Can you lovely people help me? Harem anime are a guilty pleasure of mine, but in recent times, all they do is make me angry with all the tropes, lack or character development and abuse. I've been thinking about trying to write a story about these tropes in a satirical fashion. Basically if the Joker movie were a harem anime. Can someone point me to a place where people might read it, or maybe a tip to kickstart some ideas?
@@owenmaleski2203 I totally get what you mean. . . uh. . . regarding the harem tropes. So regarding a story idea, I'd start with giving the MC an actual personality. Preferably a more realistic one. Since this is about making fun of the harem tropes, this looks like a good character to start with. Like show these writers a realistic reaction to a harem girl barging into your room without knocking. And calling you a pervert for trying to change into your work clothes even though the girl doesn't even live in your house and lives across the street and has the tendency to intrude your house a lot. And without a key! We'd also have to call the cops if it was a yandere in this harem. Now imagine if a badass MC like Jotaro Kujo is the MC in a harem that follows these annoying tropes.
@@antipolitics Yeah. This is dictated by survival instincts. Guys don't put that much effort into reproduction. It's just a few minutes of effort and the rest is pleasure. So, naturally, guys won't be that choosy about who we bang. And girls, since they put so much effort into reproduction (initial moments of effort, plus nine months of torture, plus arduous labor), they will typically be very specific with who they fuck and have babies with.
MEME REVIEW good to know I made someone laugh. Too bad first book romance interest won’t be here to- oh shit, she’s still alive? Oh no now there will be a love triangle!
@@beepbeepimmadragon8758 Honestly I don't think it has anything to do with getting a girlfriend at all. It's about dominance. They do it to validate themselves and boost their fragile little egos for a hot second because everything else in their life sucks (I should also note they often do this in front of other men to "impress" them. Because I guess "manly" = rude to women). Street harassment's just easier than actually working on their problems.
I also hate one when books glamorize Stockholm syndrome - like hostages falling in love with their captors or the abused person falling in love with the abuser. It’s so messed up. Love the video tho ❤️❤️❤️❤️
EXACTLY! That shit is so unsettling and especially on Wattpad, you see like 13-year-old girls being like, "I know he like kidnapped her and took her away from her family, but like he is soooo cute uwu'
People who writes this shit don't glamorize abuse. I've talked to many writers who've wrote these fanfics, and think that abuse is wrong, IRL. Fictional characters should never be treated as human beings. Unless, of course, it's based on a IRL human being, then that's probably not okai.
@@mac-n-cheese158 Except fiction affects the real world. Studies have proven this time and time again. War Vets who went to go see Saving Private Ryan caused their PTSD to trigger and a lot of them killed themselves. 13 Reasons Why caused a lot of young people to kill themselves in a very similar manner cause of how the shows makes life after you are dead seem "beautiful". The amount of people who actually think those with DID are like the guy from Split is unreal and people use that movie to educate people on DID even they have no medical degree. Fiction impacts the real world. Just because those characters aren't real does not mean that it won't affect a real person. This idea of "it's just fiction so it's okay" needs to stop, cause again, studies have proven otherwise as well as data. Every time a movie, show, or just the news mentions suicide, there is always an increase in suicide.
When writing romantic relationships, I try to follow The Kiss Rule: If your characters have to kiss to make it clear that there's a romance, you're writing the romance wrong.
You noticed too! :D I just want to scream "Intimacy comes in many forms, not just sexual!" Like for me a hug is a very intimate act of trust and affection. It's even a personal goal of mine to write an asexual romance since we have next to no representation. Hopefully we'll have more as time goes on and advocates grow louder and more people feel comfortable coming out and educating others.
21melpomene yes hoping for the days we get more asexual romance representation. I don’t care for sex. I prefer my OTPs snuggling down on a sofa or whatever to talk about their day and tightly hugging each other sometimes. The kind of hugs where they completely envelope each other in a cocoon of warmth and affection and safety *squeals and dies internally*
i love that she specified "lust at first sight is a real thing for plenty of _allosexual_ people" because YES thank you for acknowledging ACES THANK YOU THANK YOU
I hate when writers describe stupid characters as "naive". Like when I read twilight, Bella is literally just a dumb, miserable tea towel that almost dies every 2 minutes, liek why tho?
@@JennaMoreci Bella literally makes at least 4 people fall in love with her. Her milkshake brings all the boys to the yard but she ain't got no milkshake, just room temperature tea.
SO... I'm not the only one who fantasizes the "hero" plopping a bust of Darwin on the head-stone of the STUPID love interest??? ...you know, because of all the times the love interest was saved from one disaster after another but NEVER EVER learned anything... ;o)
@@gwendalynnwatkins1296 I swear I didn't get this notification... Basically, in Greek Mythology, some of the gods had a lot of children with mortals, so massive age differences. Ignores alot of the other nonsense with them, but yeah.
People forget that redemption doesn't mean you become an angel or symbol of goodness. It is starting over again. Level 0 basically. Redemption just means that people go from hating you to being tolerant or at least indifferent. Not being buddy buddy or worse a love interest right away.
Ok but Let's be real about the old ones. They lived longer than the people of today. What are they supposed to do? Stay alone for eternity because they're older than everybody? Or get with a 95 year old at the brink of death?
Why the f would they even date then. You don't need romance. You can have all the power in your hands. You just need to chill. Just relax. Read books. Play games. Play piano. Etc. There are many things in life other than romance.
At least get with someone who is an adjusted member of society!! 40, 50, or even 30 is alright but don’t get with 21 year olds!! They’re too easily manipulated because they don’t have a lot of life experience and are generally *just* becoming financially independent, getting with a 21 year old is just predatory.
Assuming the whole thing isn't just fetish fuel in the first place, wouldn't a free person falling in love with a slave owned by someone else offer far more potential for good drama? "How can I get him/her out of this?".
1. Kinks are real and I'm not going to shame them. This also shows up a lot in actual smut and I don't know if that genre is supposed to be taken seriously. 2. The potential for drama is there, it just needs someone to go for it. "I inherited this slave, I can't overtly free them. How do I make the best of this? I don't have to treat them badly." "Seducing my master will force their hand and convince them to free me."
@Hayley Bartek I don't say that never happened in real life but it has unfortunate implications and may not be a good trope to use - if it primarily exists to turn you on it may be a good idea to write porn/erotica to begin with.
The biggest problem with this scenario would have to do with the races of each character. If you're talking about historical American slavery, and your free person is white, then you have the "white savior" trope, which can be just as bad depending on how it's done.
@Rayvenn Bruening Slavery was widespread in most human cultures around the globe and it was usually not based on phenotype. You'd have to be very incompetent to both pick North American Slavery AND fall into this trope. That's not necessary for some people to be offended though, just mention slavery and they'll complain about it even if you make a carbon copy of real history.
You know a bunch of those tropes are things I'd like to see....in a horror/thriller. Maybe even a psychological one. It'd be neat to have a story break down those tropes and explore the impact of seemingly good and obviously messed up romantic themes in the sort of serious light they should be talked about.
Not a book, it's a webcomic named Killing Stalking. Pretty fucked up, but it is a psychological horror. Just... Avoid the comments... The BL (boys love/yaoi) community as a whole has romanticized the crap out of it and think it's "cute" even though the author has stated that it is not a love story or a romance story. There is murder, sex, rape, Stockholm Syndrome, manipulation, and poisoning. Those the the tags that I can think of off the top of my head from the get go, been well over a year since I read it.
I may want to read this love story, if only there's an established reason why he cannot let her go. Maybe his life is in danger, too. And by the end of the story, both get over their trauma and start anew.
The most accurate portrayal of an assertive but caring dom I've ever seen was iron bull from dragon age inquisition. You have the option to enter a sexual relationship with the iron bull. When it starts out iron bull says, "you may think you're ready. Everyone says that." Essentially what hes doing is constantly giving you options and opportunities to back out if you ever feel uncomfortable. Hell, the last thing he says before having sex is, "last chance [to back out]" that is how you have a dominant yet respectful sexual relationship
AlphaNathan Online oh god yes, Iron Bull is the best dom representation I’ve seen. He always asks for consent, establishes a safe word, makes sure you’re comfortable and performs after care- something I’ve never really seen in books
I haven't looked this Iron Bull person up, yet, but his attitude sounds like a step in the right direction, even if it's not as big of a step as I'd wish. While I like the idea of constant options and opportunities to back out, the whole "last chance" warning before sex thing doesn't feel right to me. I feel an encounter should be able to be ended at any time for any reason and that warning would scare me into backing out right then.
You found my dungeons and dragons character background. Oh yeah and he’s also a half demon assassin but like he has a family so he is a good person or whatever.
Will you go over how to write a convincing rivalry? Or a convincing bully? I've seen too many people write the same regurgitated bully or mean girl trope from crappy teen movies.
In the story I'm writing, which is themed around a magic school, the bully character is chill as hell and has a lot of emotional control. She basically does it to take her mind off of things because her parents want her to join the dark side... so yeah. Also, I made it so halfway through the story her friends turned on her and all she did was shrug it off and find a new friend group even though half the school thought she was cheating to get in some competitions and avoided her.
You mean these characters? "She twisted a lock of light hair around her finger, playing around with it as if it was miss main characters heart. "You're worthless!" She said laughing, her two friends giggled behind her. Miss dumbcuntface always got what she wanted because she's blonde and rich and that makes her a bad person!" "Mr Ihavadicklol grabbed mr main character by the collar and pushed him against the locker. He had strong arms and probably played lacrosse (very evily). "You gay" he said and punched the main character in the face" (Why td did I do this lolol)
@@haichie1341 My character Luna's blonde and rich... does this make her a cliche bully? I mean, there's a backstory behind why she bleaches her hair which is lowkey depressing and she's rich because 4 generations ago her great grandfather used his parent's money to buy a mansion as they were one of the 5 ruling families of the island they live on but got disowned for marrying a "human born" girl who was an outsider too. They got to keep the mansion. Her insults are more witty and clever instead of just one word meaningless shit though. Also after Luna gets replaced, the main bully becomes ginger. The boy in the bully group is some pretty weak Asian half-blood who only joined because he had a secret crush on ginger girly.
You know what really ticks me off? The victims of sexual assault in literature are always women. There's been so much of women representation to the point where it's fetishized! Men need representation, too. Edit: a reply told me most BL/Yaoi media shows sexual assault against men. This comment was made almost a year ago at the time of this edit, so I had time to find media with male sexual assault in it, too. (Quick reminder that sexual assault isn’t okay, as it’s traumatizing for the victim.) Behold: the Gacha community. I won’t go into full detail, but basically a bunch of kids got a dress-up game called Gacha Life and started making sexual content with it. Specifically man-on-man rape. I don’t recommend looking it up, but it exists and in no way is it good.
Matthew Dahl not true. life imitates art. if we talk more about male sexual assault in literature and other forms of media and create compelling male characters who we sympathize with and see the affect rape had on them, people will begin to realize how male sexual assault is just as bad as it is for females and take men more seriously.
Ummmm.... Comics? 99% of Boys Love/Yaoi has rape and sexual assaults in it and the boy victim is told it's his fault cause he was just too "irresistible" for the rapist to hold back. This has been happening for over 20 years now in BL/Yaoi soooooo.... It might not be in the form of a novel, but it's still there.
@@klausd.6285 i’d argue for the most part we can’t generalize western + eastern media together. both sides it bad w sexual assault in general, though, but i would argue for multiple different reasons. anyways, for the most part though, women’s assault are used more for plot devices for others and men’s assault isnt even considered assault. regardless, i don’t think that’s what the original commenter meant. you might see sexual assault or rape of men in media but many times it’s played for jokes or isnt taken seriously, which is pretty much what yaoi falls under like you said. women’s are played seriously in media, just used as plot devices (though for eastern media a lot of anime has perverted tropes n all that stuff). in conclusion people don’t know how to write sexual assault correctly
Honestly anyone with any semblance of a brain and decency doesn't like that book. There are several issues with it that I could write a thesis paper on it.
Mine: The two leads are thrown together. They hate each other. But suddenly, with no development, they love each other? And since they have no common ground or any reason to like each other, the entire story is just a repeat of them learning how to understand each other
@@Newfiecat that's the trope name I'm looking for!!! Enemies to lovers never works because they skip over the enemies to friends part and go straight to love
Literally this. Saw a story where the couple fought 24/7 and they slept together once....the person immediately loves them and it turns out the other person used them.
Can Beauty and the Beast from Disney be considered a well written enemies to lovers? I personally think so, because we can actually see that they develop an actual friendship, and Belle doesn’t reciprocate his feelings until the very end of the movie. What are your thoughts on that?
I can see an ancient being falling in love with a 21 year old girl as long as she has an interesting personality and she is not a total idiot. A relationship like that can help the young one learn a lot and mature more easily and the ancient one to have a fresh look and passion about his life that maybe got boring in those hundreds of years. But I agree that if the young love interest is a replaceable plank of wood that needs constant saving, that's not gonna be a convincing partner for an ancient being.
@@AsifHassan "I'm older than your bloodline; I've seen civilizations rise and decay; I've seen the darkness that lurks in the hearts of men and the light that uplifts humanity. But, I would sacrifice all of that wisdom and knowledge just so I could spend another night with you."
@@elsie8757 100% agree. Otherwise the readers might wonder if either that primordial being hit his head too hard while on slumber or was he busy playing alien-made videogames 24/7 for the past 10 thousand years.
A trope I often see and despise with a passion is the, un believable romance. I'm not saying that it should always be a sane or absolutely perfect relationship. Most Relationships have their flaws, so much so you cant help but to think "why the hell are you two together?". But it'd be a nice insight to such toxic relationships and the oh so "perfect" ones if they just fleshed out the two love interests and their interactions. Because in the end, I may not like the pairing, but I'd understand how two said characters would fall in love..if that makes sense? Edit: I *HATE* number 1 with a passion
I'd like to put an asterisk on the slave/owner romance, just because a series I love (and happen to be currently rereading for the 100th time), the Empire trilogy, by Raymond E. Feist and Janny Wurts, has said trope in it and it's absolutely fine to me. Great characters, great relationship. He's a war prisoner who doesn't intend on being anyone's property and she learns from him and starts questioning her people's ways. So I guess that the asterisk would be on whether or not the "owner/property" thing is romanticized or if it's challenged/condemned by the protagonists, love or not.
Skylynxify Reborn I agree. There’s also men(mostly anime fans) who are into archetype known as yandere, which summarised is that the yandere(usually a girl) loves you so much she’s willing to kill for you and do literally anything to keep you to herself. It also plays into “wanting to be desired” but it’s definitely more extreme than a regular female fantasy(not that there are no girls who are into yanderes, but there are more examples of male gazed yanderes than female gazed in media)
I think the slave/master thing is a fetish on power play. In fact, I think many bad romance tropes are explorations of fetishes. Like bad boys, helpless rescues, predator control, age differences. Sometimes it can be fun to explore those fantasies in something safe like a story that can’t actually touch you. However it doesn’t make it healthy, right, or good for the reader. But I understand why it exists and why they can be popular.
... taking notes in case I want to write a best seller romance: 1: Moron meets sociopath. 2: sex scenes stray into the realm of Ero Guro. 3: Mutual insanity = good 4: he's rich, she's late teens.
I agree that the age difference trope is gross if one of the partners is a teen or if the other one is ancient, but people above the age of 20 are adults and should be able to date whomever they choose. I think that having your protagonists strictly within the same age range isn't necessary. What is, however, is making them respect each other as people. For example, if you have 22 year old man and 30 year old woman dating, don't let her say things like ''my baby boy'' or ''he's just a kid'' because it's not only condescending, but kinda gross. That's the main issue I have with partners with age differences - the fact that the older one is often written to be condescending with ''baby girl'' kind of comments. It doesn't show respect or equality and that's what romance should be about, whether one is 24, 34 or 44.
People in the age range of 18-25 are young adults and it's demonstrated as certain parts of the brain are just finishing development, I understand that it shouldn't be a restriction, but even biologically, there's an imbalance between let's say a 21 year old and a 30 year old.
"Age difference between a 21-year-old and an immortal is weird." Me: *feels attacked because my story will feature those exact things although my inspiration comes from Highlander instead of Twilight*
I kinda walk the line there with what I'm writing cause I have this ageless android in a relationship with this Human woman who just turned 18. Might have to rethink that one...
Regarding the age difference... I can top that. He raised her or the "born sexy yesterday" trope. My friend recently gushed to me about an anime where an unaging being met a young girl in the forest and she came back a lot and then was grown up and they ended up dating. It was "so romantic" which I couldn't get behind because I had to keep myself from throwing up violently. The "born sexy yesterday" trope is so bad, too. "Yeah she is only a few days old, an infant basically, but she *looks* 18 so it's okay." Excuse me while I try to bleach that thought from my mind, thank you.
If you're talking about Hotarubi no Mori e, I recommend it. I've come across the 'raised her' stuff, which is disgusting, like why?! IF the one you're talking about is this one, however, it's not that trope. It's also a tragedy, so... The relationship between those two characters, from my perspective, is more like childhood friends that met up every summer and ended up growing feelings. They can't even touch, so nothing sexual. If the one your friend was talking about is not that one, I'd like to know so I can take a look at it and feel disgusted as well.
@@iamrosemist5630 I don't know the name, I only know he was a vampire or a ghoul or something similar and they 'married' later on, so it doesn't sound like it was the one you mentioned. When I see them again, I'll ask. That anime does sound interesting, though, I'll have a look at it.
I literally threw a 789 page book I purchased across the room earlier whilst watching your video 😂 The male protagonist "Adem" (Not Adam) meets one of the female supporting characters "Jean" for the first time and instantly falls in love with her. (Excerpt - "He was falling hopelessly in love with Jean every second that he gazed into her big blue eyes.") 🙄 In the following scene, Adem is opening doors constantly for her (major fedora wearing 'm'lady' vibes) to which she replies "There are not enough young men in this day and age who uphold the old values and customs, particularly how to treat a lady" - smfh 😂🤦♀️ Soon, Adem, Jean and some friends pile into an awaiting van that would be taking the group to a scheduled photo shoot. Adem is horrified when Jean begins chatting up his friends 'Carl' and 'Wil' instead of him! (Excerpt - If she made a move on Wil, he thought he might burst into tears right there in the van.) 🙄🙄🙄🙄 They've only just met! 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️ Oh boy, do I HATE instant romance tropes! Especially toxic, terribly written ones lol🤢😒
Bruh. I hate these too! I love it when characters first get to know each other and become friends, then best friends and then they realise they are falling one for another. I find sweet and more importantly healthy.
My least favourite trope: when the character rejects someone and the actual love interest walks in. Main character: Seriously, I have no interest in pursuing a romantic relationship with you. Character 1: But I'm attracted to you! You're basically my wife/husband! Main character: I'm not. Goodbye! Me: Oh look, the character isn't just going to be a love interest! There can be positive messages in this! It's saying that you don't have to be in a relationship to have- *Love Interest walks in.* Him/her: Hi Main Character *thinking*: This was the guy/girl/other that I'd been thinking about for months now. But he'd never look at me the same way. Me: "... value." *barfs*
You literally described one of my most detested cliches in books / tv series. And I'm even not calling it a ''trope'', because it's almost never been used correctly. So, if it's always used like sh*t, it's a cliche.
There's nothing inherently wrong with age difference ships as long as its not illegal or grooming, but you need to write chemistry that makes sense and have them share a few things in common which can be done without them being the same age. Like a hobby or job.
I agree. For example, my character in a D&D Curse of Strahd campaign (Zelda Alagondar) and her love interest (another PC, Alexander Von Roeyen) are centuries apart in age. He is the brother of the BBEG of the campaign, both are vampires over 600 years old. My character is a half elf cleric noblewoman in her mid twenties. Both characters are nobles and compliment each other extremely well. For instance, while Alexander could easily protect Zelda from harm, she often provides him a lot of emotional support and stability on top of being the main negotiator for our party. Additionally my friend and I tried to make the romance believable by having Zelda and Alexander enjoy spending time together whether they are going on dates or talking about their families etc. They are just as much best friends and adventuring partners as they are nobles in a forbidden romance. One thing my friend and I tried to do was make their relationship believable and progress naturally. We often tried to avoid or subvert common vampire cliches which made things feel refreshing and wholesome. Alexander is highly concerned with consent, often telling Zelda that he wouldn't turn her unless she was ready and willing to become a vampire. Additionally both characters are a source of genuine happiness for each other and when things do happen (i.e. Alexander falling into his vampiric nature), Zelda calls him out on it and he tries to be better. I could go on but the point is to create a realistic and wholesome relationship regardless of age and to know it is possible if you consider the execution of the relationship.
People of very different ages get together all the time. It's obviously a part of the human experience and thus valid to write about. Most cultures outside of 21st century America haven't had any hangups about it, either. At most times in most places, it was expected. Obviously the same rules apply as they do in all written romances: the two characters need to have some motivation to pursue that relationship, and get something out of it when it happens. If you struggle to do that, their respective ages are not the issue.
I don't quite get the "what does an ancient being have in common with a 21yo, why would they date". An ancient being has nothing in common with anyone, so I find it as plausible they'd connect with a 21yo as I do that they'd connect with an 80yo
I imagine it as they are bored ad fuck and picked the first remotely attractive person they saw to entertain themselves. So long as it isn't one of those, I've known your family since before you were born and I've waited for you to become of legal age shit I'm ok with to. Seriously stop having immortals waiting for infants to grow up. Not only does it make zero sense from a character standpoint it's hella creepy and likely won't end well.
@@eveescastle5866 this 100%. I am so tired of manhwas going this route. It's just super creepy. I've also read ones where the guardian later became the child's love interest later on in the story and that is also just a big no for me. There's a variation on that where the characters are siblings, raised as siblings yet somehow knew that they weren't siblings. There was just something different about the other character that just made them somehow know.
But they're so popular I don't get and tv shows do the same thing and the fans love it I'm starting to think the standards for romance are extremely low nowadays
I wonder how long her books would actually be if every instance of #2 was cut from them. Looking at you 10 page long sex scene in Empire of Storms.........
Abusive ex: I know I destroyed your entire home planet along with literally everything you had then continued to be horrid to you...but I’ve changed Abused ex: oh well in that case we’ll be shacking up by the end of this chapter so the writer doesn’t have to work to hard on our relationship development
Lmao the ancient beings thing is actually one of my favorite romance tropes. Like, they're so old that it doesn't really matter anymore. Plus the angst of them outliving their loved one is just 👌
Maybe it's because you become officially an "adult" at 18 in my country but I'm not that grossed out by a 16 y/o or 17 y/o dating a 20 y/o. It's actually pretty frequent in real life. At least where I live. 😂
@@TheLuckOfTheClaws In my country it's not. I don't know the term in English but you are not considered a child at 15 anymore. So it's legally not pedophilia. However I'll say that if you screw a 15 yo and you're 30 that's gross but if you're 20 and she's 16 it's just 4 years.
@@Lilydu972mag Same I meant my mom and ad met when she was 16 and he was 19. People really need to stop acting like Peodophilia related to teenagers when it really pre-pubescent in other words Children under 13. You aren't magically mentally mature at 18 and people need to realize that
SleepyDoodle 18 isn’t a magic number, but it still feels gross for a 20 year old to date a 16 year old bc of lack of experience to me. Like this girl/Guy hasn’t even had the experience of living away from her/his parents, and you’re already trying to date them? Couldn’t you have found someone out of highschool at least??
My great-grandfather fell in love with his owner, married her, moved to the USA and had four children before she died. To deny a slave can love anyone he likes, even his owner, is to deny the slave even more agency.
J Whippet it’s not that I don’t agree with you, but those stories are usually written to fetishise the “master/slave” dynamic. Which isn’t necessary a bad thing, but I understand why people find it icky if they aren’t into it.
She can love whoever she likes. But that’s like, life. Stories aren’t life, they’re stories. When stories like that are written over and over it normalizes them and makes it seem okay.
Number #9: What if the century spanning age difference between the characters is irrelevant. Say a human girl and an elf-ish boy have a romance. The elf-ish love interest is 250 years old, but enters maturity when he passes 300 years of age. In theory, the elf-ish character SHOULD be older than the human at age 40, but he'd have still been a freaking toddler for his own people... literally ... That's how I see aging in near immortal races. Proportional in some way or another to how humans age, instead or reaching maturity at age 18 and then never changing beyond that.
There is also some argument I would say for an immortal character being with someone around 30 or so. Or perhaps they encounter a particularly mature and wise mortal. After all, age and maturity do not necessarily go hand in hand. Although, that being said, the main reason I don't have any of my immortal characters forming romantic relationships with mortals is because of the issue of outlasting them.
Knowledge and experience difference still would be abysmal. She may be all the time like "you didn't noticed that every 20-something years that stuff happens?" "how can't you know x thing happens". We experience way far less than hypotetical beings that have longer life-spans.
@@uncuentofriki3635 True, knowledge and experience would still be an immense gap and since I posted that comment my view point has changed. WHY would an near immortal being, who matures slowly, all things considered, even want to have a romance with a human? Sure is they are a rakish character, they can do whatever the fuck they want, but if it's say a bookish elven youth who is just stepping outside of his society, why would romance even be on his mind. Probably the girl would have a crush on him, because he's cute in his curiosity and smarts and kindness but the crush would not go the other way too. That's my stance on the matter now.
@@elrilmoonweaver4723 Great that you thought about it and updates your stance. I just wanted to point out and ask how would the relationship further even if they got together? She's gonna grow normally while he stays immature for long periods of time. It's irrelevant now.
2:25 (1) No First Kiss 3:12 (2) Lust x 10,000 4:05 (3) Condescending Pet Names 4:48 (4) That's Not How Vaginas Work 5:30 (5) Slave-fic 6:16 (6) She's Just Stupid 7:09 (7) Sexy Assault 8:06 (8) Redeem The Abuser 8:56 (9) Gross Age Differences 9:58 (10) Ship? What Ship?
9:15 to be honest I could date a 100 year old if they still looked like 25 or something (Im 23 myself). Lets be honest the main reason I (and most likely most other people) aren't attracted to elderly people are because they look odd and wrinkly, besides probably have outdated worldviews and might be crippled or demented. If normal aging doesnt apply to someone (and you can still get along in terms of personality and values) I see no reason to pretend it does. Also not defening pedophilia in any way, thats another case entirely. But I think once youre past your teens youre technically an adult and can date whatever other adult you want (given both agree of course)
I agree. There's so much condescending comments when it comes to young adults nowadays. So, at 21 one is old enough to go to jail for life (if they break the law in such way), enlist in the army, be elected mayor or adopt a child, but not old enough to pick their romantic partner? Teens shouldn't be dating adults, but two adults... They could be 22 and 82 as long as I'm concerned. Sure, the further they are apart, the lesser the possibility they'll be compatible in interests and mindsets, but in the end, it's up to them to try or not. Also, while people nowadays think it shows maturity and care, I cringe when an adult refers to another adult as a kid. It feels super condescending. It can only be charming among friends.
Does this mean you're against a romance between a vampire/ elf and a human (there will be a huge age gap, but physically and mentally it won't be as big)
I personally love paranormal romances, and they pretty much always have huge age gaps. Most of the paranormal love interests are creatures with incredibly long life-spans if not outright immortal. Anything under 100 is practically an infant for vampires, elves, fae, angels/demons, etc. About the only paranormal groups that don't have that problem are witches and some versions of werewolves. A 21-35ish person dating a 400 year old vampire/elf/whatever is not at all the same thing as that person dating a 60-80 year old human. The paranormal influence massively changes the dynamic.
Jennifer De Boor Exactly! Besides, the vampire/elf whatever still has to be physically attracted to the person (not that they wouldn’t be attracted to someone middle aged) but I’m attracted to people who LOOK like my age range, even if they’re technically younger or older. So I can see how someone who LOOKS 21 forever, would still be looking at that age range for a partner.
@@PortiaDDoesStyle If paranormal dude is like 100 or something , that peep won't just stay single forever, or date someone thats 80 so i think its fine
These all seem like easy rules to follow. In fact, most of them are just plain common sense. Can we please have more authors with basic common sense when it comes to romance? Great video as usual, Jenna! I can always depend on you for education and entertainment! :)
Here’s a sub-point for number 8: The abusive partner that is redeemed through a sad backstory. “Oh, despite the fact that this man assaulted me, manipulated me, and overall abused me, he had a sad backstory, so I still wanna jump his di-“
One of my most hated romance tropes is forced heteronormativity. You know male main character and male sidekick have lots of chemistry, get along really well, have tons in common, have a shared history, have compatible personalities and yet the main character ends up a female character he's given no development with and has nothing in common with because God forbid we imply that our main male character is anything but 110% straight. Like I have nothing against male male friendship but for chrissakesdon't tear people together just because there are a man and a woman.
I have a suggestion for a video: *Satellite Characters* Can you explain what they are? I don't really understand this kind of character and I'd like to know if they are okay or a terrible type of character. Is there a way to make them good?
I didn't know about Satellite Characters before reading your comment. But just by the sound of it, I guess they're not good characters. By "Satellite" I guess it's supposed to mean that their entire "personality" is that they revolved around another character. Just like a satellite. If you remove the character they revolve around, there's nothing left of them, they doesn't have any point or personality left. Thus said, that's my guess based on the name xD But the name really speak of itself so I don't think I must be far from the reality.
@@Hadeshy Yeah, I'm pretty sure satellite characters are people that revolve around the main character and nothing else. I don't think I've come across this, but they don't sound very fun to read about lol
You could write a satellite character who looses whoever they’re obsessed with and then write their character arc into becoming their own person??? That’s the only way I would think of making them compelling
The "abuser redemption arc" CAN be done well if you're clever. The abuser becoming a better person and trying to get back with the victim... no. However, I do like stories that see the abuser get help and reconnect with the victim to have a conversation and apologise for their behaviour. Maybe they can even move on together and, whilst they can never be romantic again, they can respect one another.
Jenna I have recently found your channel and it has helped me with my story so much! I love your sassy nature. I have a question, I have been writing a dragon story with heavy fighting scenes, how do I make them seem less repetitive?
re: Mayfly-December Romances (immortal/mortal) This is a trope I've written a _lot_ in my years of roleplay and its' something that I often enjoy writing. Unfortunately, I can't really provide an answer as to _why_ I enjoy it and _why_ it tends to work as it _heavily_ depends on the characters involved. For example, one of my immortal characters, Dawn Rose, is a 12,000 year old immortal woman that has had at least a hundred or so human lovers over the course of her life. (That's a lot but bear in mind this is spread over _millennia._) She's a very, _very_ family oriented woman that adores having a significant other and _especially_ having children. It also lets her get out into the world and interact with people that _aren't_ her stuffy, secrecy-obsessed immortal family members. She likes seeing things change and enjoys getting out into the world. She finds common ground through people that love record keeping or something of the like. I can get why you dislike the trope and you're entitled to your opinion. Just thought I'd offer my personal perspective!
God my writing friend is writing a love triangle and just... why??? I mean I fully support his career but love triangles make me want to rip my eyes out of my head 😂
Me too, I really, REALLY hate them. And the annoying thing is that you can’t get away from them. They’re in pretty much EVERYTHING. It’s not an immediate turn off for me anymore, mainly because if it was, there wouldn’t be anything to go back to. Also, I don’t think they’re a thing in real life. At least, not how books and movies describe it. I’ve been dating my boyfriend for a year and a half, and I haven’t looked at any other guys (or gals) romantically since. If you’re actually in love with your partner, you won’t look at someone else like that.
I've just hit around 10,000 words and am still establishing the vague crush/love interest (though my story isn't a romance, aha) and this video came at just the right time! I gotta know what to avoid, haha😂 Thank you Jenna!
I hate when they tease the romance with zero payoff. We get to read a hundred pages about these two teasing each other and then they “get together” the end. What?!
Omg I am so excited for this video you always make videos about things I'm writing or need. I'm currently writing a romance and could use a list of things NOT TO DO. XD
How to solve problems: Don't! Just distract the readers with a convoluted love triangle! I'm sure nobody will notice! - Terrible Writing Advice, probably (check out his channel too, if you like Jenna's stuff, you'll like his. Also, Overly Sarcastic Productions has a cool series called Trope Talks which is great too)
I'm surprised these romance tropes weren't included -Sickengly Sweethearts (easily the most annoying romance trope) -Strangled by the Red String -Will They, Or Won't They? -One Sided Love Designated -Offscreen Breakup -Dating What Daddy Hates -Pairing Someone Off Just Because the Story’s Ending -Star-Crossed Lovers And those are only a few at the top of my head. lol Love your trope videos btw.
One of my best stories is one set in ancient Greece, where a slave, a half egyptian girl, falls in love with one of her owners, an arystochratich woman. Of course, she never gets anything more than a hug, and it happens when said woman is desperate for affection. Her owner never treats her wrong, she even starts thinking of her as a friend at some point.
Netflix has a show about a slave witch who falls in love with her master, gets burned at the stake and makes a deal with a wizard to be transported to the future. There are moments where she's tempted to go back in time to be a slave just so she can be with her master/boyfriend.
Because it does. Seriously it's not a good story. Legit the only characters I like that entire series are Alice and Jasper and it's cause they are the only ones that feel like real people.
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
"what the hell does a young person want with a grandpa?"
money, jenna. we want money. specifically when he dies "under mysterious circumstances"
omg
Speed Dating: "I'm looking for an older guy with a huge wallet- How is your health?" ❤❤
Elias Amity 😂😂😂😂
And this beautiful shit is why I read the comments...
AskMeAnything AtAll i want to like but there are 69 likes already-
If the abuser gets a redemption arc, it better involve not getting back together with the abusee.
Oof yeah. I had a character who was originally going to be a bad guy and an abusive boyfriend, but than I began to like the character more though and thought about letting him giving him redemption, but than I want him to be with the girl. That he abused. Yeah you know what if I like him so much and to be with the girl let’s just throw out abuse. Fuck it. It was an interesting plot point, but I want the characters to be together and you can’t have both.
._o oh no
If I were to give the abuser a redemption arc, I’d say they go to therapy, get their life back together and move on
@@datroy3647 There is actually one way you can give an abuser a redemption arc and have him be with the girl he abused; make it so that the abuse wasn't one-sided. The uncomfortable truth about abusive relationships is that it's very rare for only one person to be abusive, often times you'll have one person who is physically or verbally abusive and one person who is verbally abusive themselves or emotionally unstable. Relationships almost never start out as abusive, they'll usually become toxic and become abusive if one or both of the people involved aren't willing to leave or change for one reason or another.
There's actually a ton of ways you could make that relationship dynamic really interesting. You could have the boyfriend come back from his redemption arc having learned that he had a lot of anger issues that he didn't know how to deal with in a healthy or constructive way, and you could have the girl come to terms with the fact that she invited the abuse to some extent because at some level she believed she deserved it. Rather than taking the easy way out and take the abuse out completely you could instead make it about two deeply flawed people being given a second chance at happiness.
ManiaMac1613 Eh, I was planning on basing it on my own experience. I mean I could be a bitch sometimes, but it was nowhere near like equal. He did have a lot of mental illness issues which is probably why he did it, but I don’t forgive him. I wasn’t willing to leave he wasn’t willing to change. After 2 years or mostly mental abuse and manipulation I just left. There’s no way I could make him like my ex and make the other character stay. I don’t care how much he’s changed once you do that to someone you can’t be with them. I have ptsd and even if he has changed I’m afraid to be in the same room as him.
"it doesn't mean you're clever. it means your characters have no chemistry." oops
Or that it's a harem; that's also a thing. The whole point is to have multiple possible pairings for people to ship. Though admittedly, the author usually does have an OTP in mind, and it's usually obvious.
Shadow & Bone and Ash both do this, in my opinion.
@@jachyra4 yeah I'm kind of guilty with that in my WIP. Problem is, I'm kinda forcing myself about the OTP a couple of characters work great together and all options have their own advantages and disadvantages.
I know i won't make a cent out of that fumbly mess I'm writing but it would have more ships than the US navi. It HAS more ships. I mean what do you expect if you lock a guy with 6 girls in a haunted mansion?
Most likely an orgy.
@@jachyra4 sounds like harem anime, or Sword Art
My jam: First kiss is a half-drunk/rushed/awkward/fumbling mess. Later the two meet up and say 'let's try that again'. Perfected Second Kiss is my trope.
Love it
Slyfox cub I wrote that too! The two of them are forced into kissing at a party and redo it at the guys house. It’s actually really cute!
LOVE THAT TROPE. Gets me giddy every time, I'd love to see it more
That's funny, that's basically how my parents got together.
I mean, yeah
"Can't tell who the love interest is" sounds like the author wanted to write a harem anime in book form but labeled it incorrectly.
If the MC is that bland the love interests would have to be beyond amazing to make it even acceptable.
@@Alias_Anybody Nah. Just replace the mc with someone acceptable.
Can you lovely people help me? Harem anime are a guilty pleasure of mine, but in recent times, all they do is make me angry with all the tropes, lack or character development and abuse. I've been thinking about trying to write a story about these tropes in a satirical fashion. Basically if the Joker movie were a harem anime. Can someone point me to a place where people might read it, or maybe a tip to kickstart some ideas?
@@owenmaleski2203
I totally get what you mean. . . uh. . . regarding the harem tropes.
So regarding a story idea, I'd start with giving the MC an actual personality. Preferably a more realistic one. Since this is about making fun of the harem tropes, this looks like a good character to start with. Like show these writers a realistic reaction to a harem girl barging into your room without knocking. And calling you a pervert for trying to change into your work clothes even though the girl doesn't even live in your house and lives across the street and has the tendency to intrude your house a lot. And without a key! We'd also have to call the cops if it was a yandere in this harem.
Now imagine if a badass MC like Jotaro Kujo is the MC in a harem that follows these annoying tropes.
Jenna: I'm 32 and even I look at 21 year olds as babies
me, a 21 year old: I too look at 21 year olds as babies
LOL to be fair girls typically like older guys and guys typically like girls in an age range of younger to older lol.
I'm 20 and I see people older and younger than me as babies
So am I a fetus?
@@antipolitics Yeah. This is dictated by survival instincts. Guys don't put that much effort into reproduction. It's just a few minutes of effort and the rest is pleasure. So, naturally, guys won't be that choosy about who we bang. And girls, since they put so much effort into reproduction (initial moments of effort, plus nine months of torture, plus arduous labor), they will typically be very specific with who they fuck and have babies with.
I'm 23 and think the same
Second book in a series: *is written*
First book romance interest: *dies*
Random character from book one: so hey now that your girlfriend is dead...
Kilroy 137
😂😂
MEME REVIEW good to know I made someone laugh. Too bad first book romance interest won’t be here to- oh shit, she’s still alive? Oh no now there will be a love triangle!
Kilroy 137
kinda wanna read this book, sounds like a rollercoaster of emotions XD
MEME REVIEW more like a rollercoaster of cliches. Thank god the chosen one isn’t the main character
@@kilroy6429 it turns out to be the random character from book 1
"Ey, sugartits! Gimme some attention! I feel inadequate!"
I just found my next mocking clapback to catcallers.
like why do they ever think they'll get a girlfriend that way when everyone knows catcalling is v uncomfortable and dehumanizing?
@@beepbeepimmadragon8758 Honestly I don't think it has anything to do with getting a girlfriend at all. It's about dominance. They do it to validate themselves and boost their fragile little egos for a hot second because everything else in their life sucks (I should also note they often do this in front of other men to "impress" them. Because I guess "manly" = rude to women). Street harassment's just easier than actually working on their problems.
I absolutely lost it at her "catcalls", lol
@@beepbeepimmadragon8758 how
@@lauramaue how
I also hate one when books glamorize Stockholm syndrome - like hostages falling in love with their captors or the abused person falling in love with the abuser. It’s so messed up. Love the video tho ❤️❤️❤️❤️
EXACTLY! That shit is so unsettling and especially on Wattpad, you see like 13-year-old girls being like, "I know he like kidnapped her and took her away from her family, but like he is soooo cute uwu'
Why are people romanticizing abuse? There's nothing romantic about beating the shit out of someone!!!!!❗❗❗❗❗😩😩😩😩😡😡😡
People who writes this shit don't glamorize abuse. I've talked to many writers who've wrote these fanfics, and think that abuse is wrong, IRL. Fictional characters should never be treated as human beings. Unless, of course, it's based on a IRL human being, then that's probably not okai.
**cough cough** 365 DAYS! **cough**
@@mac-n-cheese158 Except fiction affects the real world. Studies have proven this time and time again. War Vets who went to go see Saving Private Ryan caused their PTSD to trigger and a lot of them killed themselves. 13 Reasons Why caused a lot of young people to kill themselves in a very similar manner cause of how the shows makes life after you are dead seem "beautiful". The amount of people who actually think those with DID are like the guy from Split is unreal and people use that movie to educate people on DID even they have no medical degree. Fiction impacts the real world. Just because those characters aren't real does not mean that it won't affect a real person. This idea of "it's just fiction so it's okay" needs to stop, cause again, studies have proven otherwise as well as data. Every time a movie, show, or just the news mentions suicide, there is always an increase in suicide.
When writing romantic relationships, I try to follow The Kiss Rule: If your characters have to kiss to make it clear that there's a romance, you're writing the romance wrong.
Question does it work if they almost kiss?
Love this so much 😌
Need “well that don’t matter, B*TCH” on a shirt
LOLOLOL maybe I'll make it happen :P
Definitely would buy that
Makes me think of a quote from Weeds
-" Like my mama always says : Tough shit."
Ya bitch!! -- Jenna Moreci 2020
How are writers supposed to write chemistry...they all failed that class, yeah?
That killed a little bit of my soul, thanks
Well not for me and my friend
A Chem student here🤣🤣🤣
Science student here
Hey don't call me out like this
I love that you didn’t dismiss the idea of an asexual romance. Most people would call that boring.
You noticed too! :D I just want to scream "Intimacy comes in many forms, not just sexual!" Like for me a hug is a very intimate act of trust and affection. It's even a personal goal of mine to write an asexual romance since we have next to no representation. Hopefully we'll have more as time goes on and advocates grow louder and more people feel comfortable coming out and educating others.
yes! I prefer it over other types in my opinion.
21melpomene yes hoping for the days we get more asexual romance representation. I don’t care for sex. I prefer my OTPs snuggling down on a sofa or whatever to talk about their day and tightly hugging each other sometimes. The kind of hugs where they completely envelope each other in a cocoon of warmth and affection and safety *squeals and dies internally*
@@intimax6415 aaaa same~
Well, there was one Australian show that played it out for drama, interestingly enough. ...Totally for got the name of the show, though.
“Can the protagonist find a love interest away from their abuser while their abuser gets the help they need?” Thanks!
i love that she specified "lust at first sight is a real thing for plenty of _allosexual_ people" because YES thank you for acknowledging ACES THANK YOU THANK YOU
WE STAN AN INCLUSIVE CYBORG QUEEN
Can someone explain what Allosexual means? I’m too lazy to google it. TvT
@@exammole4545 it's people who experience sexual attention :)
ACE PRIDE YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ACE PRIDE :DD
I hate when writers describe stupid characters as "naive". Like when I read twilight, Bella is literally just a dumb, miserable tea towel that almost dies every 2 minutes, liek why tho?
LOLOL I know! Naive and stupid are not the same!
@@JennaMoreci Bella literally makes at least 4 people fall in love with her. Her milkshake brings all the boys to the yard but she ain't got no milkshake, just room temperature tea.
@@evies.1018 😂
Because the author was fantasizing that a vamp would want to jump her bones, and she channeled her personality...which is "naive." Lol
SO... I'm not the only one who fantasizes the "hero" plopping a bust of Darwin on the head-stone of the STUPID love interest???
...you know, because of all the times the love interest was saved from one disaster after another but NEVER EVER learned anything... ;o)
#9, basically, don't write the Greek Gods, unless you _mean,_ to write the Greek Gods.
As a Greek: AMEEEEN
Finally! Someone said it!
*Stares at Lore Olympus even though it's not a book*
Explain? I'm just wondering if you could elaborate, sorry
@@gwendalynnwatkins1296 I swear I didn't get this notification...
Basically, in Greek Mythology, some of the gods had a lot of children with mortals, so massive age differences. Ignores alot of the other nonsense with them, but yeah.
Jasmine Yu
Lore Olympus is still creepy to me ngl
Me: *has homework*
Also me: tHiS iS mOrE iMpOrTaNt
And I was not disappointed 😂
I mean to be fair I can think of very few occasions when homework or a day of school gave me more education then watching one of Jenna's videos.
lol, samee
i feel personally attacked
People forget that redemption doesn't mean you become an angel or symbol of goodness. It is starting over again. Level 0 basically. Redemption just means that people go from hating you to being tolerant or at least indifferent. Not being buddy buddy or worse a love interest right away.
Ok but Let's be real about the old ones. They lived longer than the people of today. What are they supposed to do? Stay alone for eternity because they're older than everybody? Or get with a 95 year old at the brink of death?
It also makes sense because most times they're going to outlive tholier partners, so choosing younger ones ensures they have time together
Or they could just date someone who’s ten or twenty years younger, aka what most old people do?
Why the f would they even date then. You don't need romance. You can have all the power in your hands. You just need to chill. Just relax. Read books. Play games. Play piano. Etc. There are many things in life other than romance.
@@elias0282 that’s not a life everyone wants to live
At least get with someone who is an adjusted member of society!! 40, 50, or even 30 is alright but don’t get with 21 year olds!! They’re too easily manipulated because they don’t have a lot of life experience and are generally *just* becoming financially independent, getting with a 21 year old is just predatory.
Assuming the whole thing isn't just fetish fuel in the first place, wouldn't a free person falling in love with a slave owned by someone else offer far more potential for good drama? "How can I get him/her out of this?".
I’d read that!
1. Kinks are real and I'm not going to shame them. This also shows up a lot in actual smut and I don't know if that genre is supposed to be taken seriously.
2. The potential for drama is there, it just needs someone to go for it.
"I inherited this slave, I can't overtly free them. How do I make the best of this? I don't have to treat them badly." "Seducing my master will force their hand and convince them to free me."
@Hayley Bartek
I don't say that never happened in real life but it has unfortunate implications and may not be a good trope to use - if it primarily exists to turn you on it may be a good idea to write porn/erotica to begin with.
The biggest problem with this scenario would have to do with the races of each character. If you're talking about historical American slavery, and your free person is white, then you have the "white savior" trope, which can be just as bad depending on how it's done.
@Rayvenn Bruening
Slavery was widespread in most human cultures around the globe and it was usually not based on phenotype. You'd have to be very incompetent to both pick North American Slavery AND fall into this trope. That's not necessary for some people to be offended though, just mention slavery and they'll complain about it even if you make a carbon copy of real history.
You know a bunch of those tropes are things I'd like to see....in a horror/thriller. Maybe even a psychological one. It'd be neat to have a story break down those tropes and explore the impact of seemingly good and obviously messed up romantic themes in the sort of serious light they should be talked about.
Slave/owner romance can be done well. Stockholm Syndrome is a thing. Horror is the best place for it. :)
Not a book, it's a webcomic named Killing Stalking. Pretty fucked up, but it is a psychological horror. Just... Avoid the comments... The BL (boys love/yaoi) community as a whole has romanticized the crap out of it and think it's "cute" even though the author has stated that it is not a love story or a romance story. There is murder, sex, rape, Stockholm Syndrome, manipulation, and poisoning. Those the the tags that I can think of off the top of my head from the get go, been well over a year since I read it.
You know, now I'm wondering how many "horror romance" I've enjoyed that were actually supposed to be swoon-worthy or hot...
You know what would happen? People would ignore the horror/thriller tag and call it the romance of the century instead.
I knew I was going to love the video just from the thumbnail picture
lolololol!!!!!!
5:52 "But Jenn-ah, he treats his slave with kindness , he teaches her how to read and shit!" Everything but set her free.
I chuckled. Specially with the shit part.
I may want to read this love story, if only there's an established reason why he cannot let her go. Maybe his life is in danger, too. And by the end of the story, both get over their trauma and start anew.
ACOTAR be like
"sexy assault"
*Anna Todd has joined the server*
cold pizza *every Wattpad Harry Styles fanfic writer has joined the server*
😂😂
The most accurate portrayal of an assertive but caring dom I've ever seen was iron bull from dragon age inquisition. You have the option to enter a sexual relationship with the iron bull. When it starts out iron bull says, "you may think you're ready. Everyone says that." Essentially what hes doing is constantly giving you options and opportunities to back out if you ever feel uncomfortable. Hell, the last thing he says before having sex is, "last chance [to back out]" that is how you have a dominant yet respectful sexual relationship
AlphaNathan Online oh god yes, Iron Bull is the best dom representation I’ve seen. He always asks for consent, establishes a safe word, makes sure you’re comfortable and performs after care- something I’ve never really seen in books
I looked him up after this comment and I loved watching his romance scenes, it's just such a nice relationship :D
I haven't looked this Iron Bull person up, yet, but his attitude sounds like a step in the right direction, even if it's not as big of a step as I'd wish. While I like the idea of constant options and opportunities to back out, the whole "last chance" warning before sex thing doesn't feel right to me. I feel an encounter should be able to be ended at any time for any reason and that warning would scare me into backing out right then.
The Iron Bull is unironically the best portrayal of a domineering yet compassion dom I've ever seen.
Gods, I hold onto those horns for dear life.
Ok, but what if the protagonist and the love interest are a long married couple, like when the book starts they’ve been married for 10 years.
yes id love that
TheTheatreQueen Sounds like the start of an interesting drama
Established relationship? I WANT IT ON THE TABLE RIGHT NOW.
Get a flashback in their we want a first kiss
You found my dungeons and dragons character background. Oh yeah and he’s also a half demon assassin but like he has a family so he is a good person or whatever.
Will you go over how to write a convincing rivalry? Or a convincing bully?
I've seen too many people write the same regurgitated bully or mean girl trope from crappy teen movies.
In the story I'm writing, which is themed around a magic school, the bully character is chill as hell and has a lot of emotional control. She basically does it to take her mind off of things because her parents want her to join the dark side... so yeah. Also, I made it so halfway through the story her friends turned on her and all she did was shrug it off and find a new friend group even though half the school thought she was cheating to get in some competitions and avoided her.
SYNFLWR it sounds cool where can i find it
You mean these characters?
"She twisted a lock of light hair around her finger, playing around with it as if it was miss main characters heart. "You're worthless!" She said laughing, her two friends giggled behind her. Miss dumbcuntface always got what she wanted because she's blonde and rich and that makes her a bad person!"
"Mr Ihavadicklol grabbed mr main character by the collar and pushed him against the locker. He had strong arms and probably played lacrosse (very evily). "You gay" he said and punched the main character in the face"
(Why td did I do this lolol)
@@haichie1341 My character Luna's blonde and rich... does this make her a cliche bully? I mean, there's a backstory behind why she bleaches her hair which is lowkey depressing and she's rich because 4 generations ago her great grandfather used his parent's money to buy a mansion as they were one of the 5 ruling families of the island they live on but got disowned for marrying a "human born" girl who was an outsider too. They got to keep the mansion.
Her insults are more witty and clever instead of just one word meaningless shit though.
Also after Luna gets replaced, the main bully becomes ginger. The boy in the bully group is some pretty weak Asian half-blood who only joined because he had a secret crush on ginger girly.
@@synflwr that sounds cool
"He walked towards you. That's all it took." I laughed so hard during this segment. Well put, Jenna.
You know what really ticks me off? The victims of sexual assault in literature are always women. There's been so much of women representation to the point where it's fetishized! Men need representation, too.
Edit: a reply told me most BL/Yaoi media shows sexual assault against men. This comment was made almost a year ago at the time of this edit, so I had time to find media with male sexual assault in it, too. (Quick reminder that sexual assault isn’t okay, as it’s traumatizing for the victim.) Behold: the Gacha community. I won’t go into full detail, but basically a bunch of kids got a dress-up game called Gacha Life and started making sexual content with it. Specifically man-on-man rape. I don’t recommend looking it up, but it exists and in no way is it good.
What's the point? People would just gloss over that just like they do in real life.
Matthew Dahl
not true. life imitates art. if we talk more about male sexual assault in literature and other forms of media and create compelling male characters who we sympathize with and see the affect rape had on them, people will begin to realize how male sexual assault is just as bad as it is for females and take men more seriously.
Ummmm.... Comics? 99% of Boys Love/Yaoi has rape and sexual assaults in it and the boy victim is told it's his fault cause he was just too "irresistible" for the rapist to hold back. This has been happening for over 20 years now in BL/Yaoi soooooo.... It might not be in the form of a novel, but it's still there.
@@klausd.6285
i’d argue for the most part we can’t generalize western + eastern media together. both sides it bad w sexual assault in general, though, but i would argue for multiple different reasons. anyways, for the most part though,
women’s assault are used more for plot devices for others and men’s assault isnt even considered assault.
regardless, i don’t think that’s what the original commenter meant. you might see sexual assault or rape of men in media but many times it’s played for jokes or isnt taken seriously, which is pretty much what yaoi falls under like you said. women’s are played seriously in media, just used as plot devices (though for eastern media a lot of anime has perverted tropes n all that stuff).
in conclusion people don’t know how to write sexual assault correctly
Klaus D. Oof, I don’t read BL/Yaoi so I didn’t really notice that. Thanks for pointing that out!
Yay you made reference to ace people existing! woot woot what a queen
gotta rep my people!
Skylynxify Reborn
At least that's what the GOVERNMENT wants you to think
I was literally about to comment this omg
When was this? *How did I miss it???*
Tell me plz.
@Skylynxify Reborn Can you tell me what alosexual means? I'm ace but haven't heard of the term and found nothing reliable when I just searched for it.
Plot Twist: love triangle that ends with polyamory.
THIS
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I NEED
Or that thing with the boys finding out that they're gay and start dating and the girl is ace and adopts a cat
Shit
I love this thing
@@gabrielajunqueira216 XD i don't blame you.
@@gabrielajunqueira216 great solutions tbh.
I am actually writing this :P
She literally just described Sarah J. Maas' entire bibliography.
I choked when I read this 🤣🤣🤣
OH MY GOD
THAT IS SOOO FUCKING TRUE
A nineteen year old and an ancient man😂then she meets rowan in like book three😂 still love ToG though😂
I hate Rowaelin. It's the absolute worst.
Truth!!
I’m guessing you’re not a Fifty Shades Of Gray fan.
No, no she is not
GREY*
Neither am i
no woukd should be
Honestly anyone with any semblance of a brain and decency doesn't like that book.
There are several issues with it that I could write a thesis paper on it.
Mine:
The two leads are thrown together. They hate each other. But suddenly, with no development, they love each other? And since they have no common ground or any reason to like each other, the entire story is just a repeat of them learning how to understand each other
Enemies to lovers: RARELY written well.
@@Newfiecat that's the trope name I'm looking for!!! Enemies to lovers never works because they skip over the enemies to friends part and go straight to love
Bellethreal I love enemies to lovers. Spike and Buffy are a decent example (before they fucked up Spike’s redemption arc with the attempted rape 😑)
Literally this. Saw a story where the couple fought 24/7 and they slept together once....the person immediately loves them and it turns out the other person used them.
Can Beauty and the Beast from Disney be considered a well written enemies to lovers? I personally think so, because we can actually see that they develop an actual friendship, and Belle doesn’t reciprocate his feelings until the very end of the movie. What are your thoughts on that?
I can see an ancient being falling in love with a 21 year old girl as long as she has an interesting personality and she is not a total idiot. A relationship like that can help the young one learn a lot and mature more easily and the ancient one to have a fresh look and passion about his life that maybe got boring in those hundreds of years. But I agree that if the young love interest is a replaceable plank of wood that needs constant saving, that's not gonna be a convincing partner for an ancient being.
Just make sure the ancient being doesn't say anything like "I've never met anyone like you before" xP
"I saw so many people like you, it's not even a lie. But I love you and you don’t have to fit in a box."
@@AsifHassan "I'm older than your bloodline; I've seen civilizations rise and decay; I've seen the darkness that lurks in the hearts of men and the light that uplifts humanity.
But, I would sacrifice all of that wisdom and knowledge just so I could spend another night with you."
I’m wondering if Lucathy is a part of this trope and is one of the worst tropes…
@@elsie8757 100% agree. Otherwise the readers might wonder if either that primordial being hit his head too hard while on slumber or was he busy playing alien-made videogames 24/7 for the past 10 thousand years.
And the cyborg queen bestows her wisdom upon us once again in the form of best: bitching about it!! 😁
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
No one like love triangles unless your Terrible Writing Advice.
I only like love triangles BECAUSE of terrible writing advice though. :(
😂 Dang it now his background music is stuck in my head, thanks a lot.
Me too. Love triangles suck🤢
Exactly. They’re never written well either. It’s always super obvious who they’ll end up with and it’s just a really bad filler
The one love triangle I like is from I love yoo
"What does an ancient man have in common with a 20 year old woman?"
Doctor Who created this question. And has an answer. 😂
Yeah? And that answer is... she’s boring and the second she got replaced by doctor lady and wedding woman the show got better?
@@jeniferjoseph9200 tbh I don't hate rose but at the same time she can be a bit whiny.
Also unpopular opinion I really do not like Donna.
Fight me.
Jenna: “ ok, I know he manipulated and assaulted, but he will be get better. “
Me: Sarah J. Mass’s book called
A Court Of Thorns And Roses
A trope I often see and despise with a passion is the, un believable romance. I'm not saying that it should always be a sane or absolutely perfect relationship. Most Relationships have their flaws, so much so you cant help but to think "why the hell are you two together?". But it'd be a nice insight to such toxic relationships and the oh so "perfect" ones if they just fleshed out the two love interests and their interactions. Because in the end, I may not like the pairing, but I'd understand how two said characters would fall in love..if that makes sense?
Edit: I *HATE* number 1 with a passion
I'd like to put an asterisk on the slave/owner romance, just because a series I love (and happen to be currently rereading for the 100th time), the Empire trilogy, by Raymond E. Feist and Janny Wurts, has said trope in it and it's absolutely fine to me. Great characters, great relationship. He's a war prisoner who doesn't intend on being anyone's property and she learns from him and starts questioning her people's ways.
So I guess that the asterisk would be on whether or not the "owner/property" thing is romanticized or if it's challenged/condemned by the protagonists, love or not.
I think the reason these tropes are a thing is cuz power imbalance has a subconscious erotic pull for many people
You mean like how many women like to read/ fantasize about the really aggressive alpha-males.
Skylynxify Reborn I agree. There’s also men(mostly anime fans) who are into archetype known as yandere, which summarised is that the yandere(usually a girl) loves you so much she’s willing to kill for you and do literally anything to keep you to herself. It also plays into “wanting to be desired” but it’s definitely more extreme than a regular female fantasy(not that there are no girls who are into yanderes, but there are more examples of male gazed yanderes than female gazed in media)
I think the slave/master thing is a fetish on power play. In fact, I think many bad romance tropes are explorations of fetishes. Like bad boys, helpless rescues, predator control, age differences. Sometimes it can be fun to explore those fantasies in something safe like a story that can’t actually touch you. However it doesn’t make it healthy, right, or good for the reader. But I understand why it exists and why they can be popular.
... taking notes in case I want to write a best seller romance:
1: Moron meets sociopath.
2: sex scenes stray into the realm of Ero Guro.
3: Mutual insanity = good
4: he's rich, she's late teens.
Congrats on the AudioBook Jenna! So proud of you and all the hard work you’ve done! Keep on being our awesome Cyborg Queen!
thank you so much!
Thoughts on relationships that started before the story started? When the relationship is a subplot?
#5 Makes me uncomfortable as hell. It's wrong and it totally forgets the imbalance of power. Anyway, love the videos. Keep them coming!
I agree that the age difference trope is gross if one of the partners is a teen or if the other one is ancient, but people above the age of 20 are adults and should be able to date whomever they choose. I think that having your protagonists strictly within the same age range isn't necessary. What is, however, is making them respect each other as people. For example, if you have 22 year old man and 30 year old woman dating, don't let her say things like ''my baby boy'' or ''he's just a kid'' because it's not only condescending, but kinda gross. That's the main issue I have with partners with age differences - the fact that the older one is often written to be condescending with ''baby girl'' kind of comments. It doesn't show respect or equality and that's what romance should be about, whether one is 24, 34 or 44.
People in the age range of 18-25 are young adults and it's demonstrated as certain parts of the brain are just finishing development, I understand that it shouldn't be a restriction, but even biologically, there's an imbalance between let's say a 21 year old and a 30 year old.
"Age difference between a 21-year-old and an immortal is weird."
Me: *feels attacked because my story will feature those exact things although my inspiration comes from Highlander instead of Twilight*
Lol, you and me both. Only mine is a fanfic with a relationship between an old Cybertronian and a younder one... Does that count? 🤔
I kinda walk the line there with what I'm writing cause I have this ageless android in a relationship with this Human woman who just turned 18.
Might have to rethink that one...
Regarding the age difference... I can top that. He raised her or the "born sexy yesterday" trope. My friend recently gushed to me about an anime where an unaging being met a young girl in the forest and she came back a lot and then was grown up and they ended up dating. It was "so romantic" which I couldn't get behind because I had to keep myself from throwing up violently.
The "born sexy yesterday" trope is so bad, too. "Yeah she is only a few days old, an infant basically, but she *looks* 18 so it's okay." Excuse me while I try to bleach that thought from my mind, thank you.
If you're talking about Hotarubi no Mori e, I recommend it. I've come across the 'raised her' stuff, which is disgusting, like why?! IF the one you're talking about is this one, however, it's not that trope. It's also a tragedy, so... The relationship between those two characters, from my perspective, is more like childhood friends that met up every summer and ended up growing feelings. They can't even touch, so nothing sexual. If the one your friend was talking about is not that one, I'd like to know so I can take a look at it and feel disgusted as well.
@@iamrosemist5630 I don't know the name, I only know he was a vampire or a ghoul or something similar and they 'married' later on, so it doesn't sound like it was the one you mentioned.
When I see them again, I'll ask.
That anime does sound interesting, though, I'll have a look at it.
To the tune of Purple Haze: 🎶Scuse me while I bleach my eyes🎶
"Slave falls in love with their owner" the 500 years of women being taken as blood pay to the Ottomans will *strongly* disagree with these creeps 😂
I literally threw a 789 page book I purchased across the room earlier whilst watching your video 😂
The male protagonist "Adem" (Not Adam) meets one of the female supporting characters "Jean" for the first time and instantly falls in love with her.
(Excerpt - "He was falling hopelessly in love with Jean every second that he gazed into her big blue eyes.") 🙄
In the following scene, Adem is opening doors constantly for her (major fedora wearing 'm'lady' vibes) to which she replies "There are not enough young men in this day and age who uphold the old values and customs, particularly how to treat a lady" - smfh 😂🤦♀️
Soon, Adem, Jean and some friends pile into an awaiting van that would be taking the group to a scheduled photo shoot. Adem is horrified when Jean begins chatting up his friends 'Carl' and 'Wil' instead of him! (Excerpt - If she made a move on Wil, he thought he might burst into tears right there in the van.) 🙄🙄🙄🙄
They've only just met! 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️🤦♀🤦♀️
Oh boy, do I HATE instant romance tropes! Especially toxic, terribly written ones lol🤢😒
Bruh. I hate these too! I love it when characters first get to know each other and become friends, then best friends and then they realise they are falling one for another. I find sweet and more importantly healthy.
Oh God, I hate that beyond belief!
My least favourite trope: when the character rejects someone and the actual love interest walks in.
Main character: Seriously, I have no interest in pursuing a romantic relationship with you.
Character 1: But I'm attracted to you! You're basically my wife/husband!
Main character: I'm not. Goodbye!
Me: Oh look, the character isn't just going to be a love interest! There can be positive messages in this! It's saying that you don't have to be in a relationship to have-
*Love Interest walks in.*
Him/her: Hi
Main Character *thinking*: This was the guy/girl/other that I'd been thinking about for months now. But he'd never look at me the same way.
Me: "... value." *barfs*
You literally described one of my most detested cliches in books / tv series. And I'm even not calling it a ''trope'', because it's almost never been used correctly. So, if it's always used like sh*t, it's a cliche.
"Therapy works wonders, and I support you." Your word choice is equal parts entertaining and honest. Wonderfully hilarious and relatable content.
There's nothing inherently wrong with age difference ships as long as its not illegal or grooming, but you need to write chemistry that makes sense and have them share a few things in common which can be done without them being the same age. Like a hobby or job.
I agree. For example, my character in a D&D Curse of Strahd campaign (Zelda Alagondar) and her love interest (another PC, Alexander Von Roeyen) are centuries apart in age. He is the brother of the BBEG of the campaign, both are vampires over 600 years old. My character is a half elf cleric noblewoman in her mid twenties. Both characters are nobles and compliment each other extremely well. For instance, while Alexander could easily protect Zelda from harm, she often provides him a lot of emotional support and stability on top of being the main negotiator for our party. Additionally my friend and I tried to make the romance believable by having Zelda and Alexander enjoy spending time together whether they are going on dates or talking about their families etc. They are just as much best friends and adventuring partners as they are nobles in a forbidden romance. One thing my friend and I tried to do was make their relationship believable and progress naturally. We often tried to avoid or subvert common vampire cliches which made things feel refreshing and wholesome. Alexander is highly concerned with consent, often telling Zelda that he wouldn't turn her unless she was ready and willing to become a vampire. Additionally both characters are a source of genuine happiness for each other and when things do happen (i.e. Alexander falling into his vampiric nature), Zelda calls him out on it and he tries to be better. I could go on but the point is to create a realistic and wholesome relationship regardless of age and to know it is possible if you consider the execution of the relationship.
People of very different ages get together all the time. It's obviously a part of the human experience and thus valid to write about. Most cultures outside of 21st century America haven't had any hangups about it, either. At most times in most places, it was expected. Obviously the same rules apply as they do in all written romances: the two characters need to have some motivation to pursue that relationship, and get something out of it when it happens. If you struggle to do that, their respective ages are not the issue.
I don't quite get the "what does an ancient being have in common with a 21yo, why would they date". An ancient being has nothing in common with anyone, so I find it as plausible they'd connect with a 21yo as I do that they'd connect with an 80yo
I imagine it as they are bored ad fuck and picked the first remotely attractive person they saw to entertain themselves.
So long as it isn't one of those, I've known your family since before you were born and I've waited for you to become of legal age shit I'm ok with to.
Seriously stop having immortals waiting for infants to grow up. Not only does it make zero sense from a character standpoint it's hella creepy and likely won't end well.
@@eveescastle5866 this 100%. I am so tired of manhwas going this route. It's just super creepy.
I've also read ones where the guardian later became the child's love interest later on in the story and that is also just a big no for me. There's a variation on that where the characters are siblings, raised as siblings yet somehow knew that they weren't siblings. There was just something different about the other character that just made them somehow know.
So much of this is in Sarah J. Maas’s books and that’s exactly why I dislike them!
But they're so popular I don't get and tv shows do the same thing and the fans love it I'm starting to think the standards for romance are extremely low nowadays
I wonder how long her books would actually be if every instance of #2 was cut from them. Looking at you 10 page long sex scene in Empire of Storms.........
I actually used to like ToG but then she started writing about Fae males and it all because hella toxic so I started to dislike her
Abusive ex: I know I destroyed your entire home planet along with literally everything you had then continued to be horrid to you...but I’ve changed
Abused ex: oh well in that case we’ll be shacking up by the end of this chapter so the writer doesn’t have to work to hard on our relationship development
This is more of an apology than these characters usually give
Lmao the ancient beings thing is actually one of my favorite romance tropes. Like, they're so old that it doesn't really matter anymore. Plus the angst of them outliving their loved one is just 👌
Maybe it's because you become officially an "adult" at 18 in my country but I'm not that grossed out by a 16 y/o or 17 y/o dating a 20 y/o. It's actually pretty frequent in real life. At least where I live. 😂
Little Anime Lover that’s pedophilia and it’s wrong and gross
Ikr! Like it’s only 3/4 years, like it is totally possible for it to work.
@@TheLuckOfTheClaws In my country it's not. I don't know the term in English but you are not considered a child at 15 anymore. So it's legally not pedophilia. However I'll say that if you screw a 15 yo and you're 30 that's gross but if you're 20 and she's 16 it's just 4 years.
@@Lilydu972mag Same I meant my mom and ad met when she was 16 and he was 19. People really need to stop acting like Peodophilia related to teenagers when it really pre-pubescent in other words Children under 13. You aren't magically mentally mature at 18 and people need to realize that
SleepyDoodle 18 isn’t a magic number, but it still feels gross for a 20 year old to date a 16 year old bc of lack of experience to me. Like this girl/Guy hasn’t even had the experience of living away from her/his parents, and you’re already trying to date them? Couldn’t you have found someone out of highschool at least??
My great-grandfather fell in love with his owner, married her, moved to the USA and had four children before she died.
To deny a slave can love anyone he likes, even his owner, is to deny the slave even more agency.
I'd like to read a book about his story.
J Whippet it’s not that I don’t agree with you, but those stories are usually written to fetishise the “master/slave” dynamic. Which isn’t necessary a bad thing, but I understand why people find it icky if they aren’t into it.
She can love whoever she likes. But that’s like, life. Stories aren’t life, they’re stories. When stories like that are written over and over it normalizes them and makes it seem okay.
Number #9: What if the century spanning age difference between the characters is irrelevant.
Say a human girl and an elf-ish boy have a romance. The elf-ish love interest is 250 years old, but enters maturity when he passes 300 years of age. In theory, the elf-ish character SHOULD be older than the human at age 40, but he'd have still been a freaking toddler for his own people... literally ... That's how I see aging in near immortal races. Proportional in some way or another to how humans age, instead or reaching maturity at age 18 and then never changing beyond that.
There is also some argument I would say for an immortal character being with someone around 30 or so. Or perhaps they encounter a particularly mature and wise mortal. After all, age and maturity do not necessarily go hand in hand. Although, that being said, the main reason I don't have any of my immortal characters forming romantic relationships with mortals is because of the issue of outlasting them.
Knowledge and experience difference still would be abysmal. She may be all the time like "you didn't noticed that every 20-something years that stuff happens?" "how can't you know x thing happens".
We experience way far less than hypotetical beings that have longer life-spans.
@@uncuentofriki3635 True, knowledge and experience would still be an immense gap and since I posted that comment my view point has changed. WHY would an near immortal being, who matures slowly, all things considered, even want to have a romance with a human? Sure is they are a rakish character, they can do whatever the fuck they want, but if it's say a bookish elven youth who is just stepping outside of his society, why would romance even be on his mind. Probably the girl would have a crush on him, because he's cute in his curiosity and smarts and kindness but the crush would not go the other way too. That's my stance on the matter now.
@@elrilmoonweaver4723 Great that you thought about it and updates your stance. I just wanted to point out and ask how would the relationship further even if they got together? She's gonna grow normally while he stays immature for long periods of time.
It's irrelevant now.
2:25 (1) No First Kiss
3:12 (2) Lust x 10,000
4:05 (3) Condescending Pet Names
4:48 (4) That's Not How Vaginas Work
5:30 (5) Slave-fic
6:16 (6) She's Just Stupid
7:09 (7) Sexy Assault
8:06 (8) Redeem The Abuser
8:56 (9) Gross Age Differences
9:58 (10) Ship? What Ship?
9:15 to be honest I could date a 100 year old if they still looked like 25 or something (Im 23 myself). Lets be honest the main reason I (and most likely most other people) aren't attracted to elderly people are because they look odd and wrinkly, besides probably have outdated worldviews and might be crippled or demented. If normal aging doesnt apply to someone (and you can still get along in terms of personality and values) I see no reason to pretend it does.
Also not defening pedophilia in any way, thats another case entirely. But I think once youre past your teens youre technically an adult and can date whatever other adult you want (given both agree of course)
Mm, it gets a little creepy when the guy has a son the same age as your sister. Gets a hard NO from me.
I agree. There's so much condescending comments when it comes to young adults nowadays. So, at 21 one is old enough to go to jail for life (if they break the law in such way), enlist in the army, be elected mayor or adopt a child, but not old enough to pick their romantic partner? Teens shouldn't be dating adults, but two adults... They could be 22 and 82 as long as I'm concerned. Sure, the further they are apart, the lesser the possibility they'll be compatible in interests and mindsets, but in the end, it's up to them to try or not.
Also, while people nowadays think it shows maturity and care, I cringe when an adult refers to another adult as a kid. It feels super condescending. It can only be charming among friends.
Does this mean you're against a romance between a vampire/ elf and a human (there will be a huge age gap, but physically and mentally it won't be as big)
I personally love paranormal romances, and they pretty much always have huge age gaps. Most of the paranormal love interests are creatures with incredibly long life-spans if not outright immortal. Anything under 100 is practically an infant for vampires, elves, fae, angels/demons, etc. About the only paranormal groups that don't have that problem are witches and some versions of werewolves. A 21-35ish person dating a 400 year old vampire/elf/whatever is not at all the same thing as that person dating a 60-80 year old human. The paranormal influence massively changes the dynamic.
Jennifer De Boor Exactly! Besides, the vampire/elf whatever still has to be physically attracted to the person (not that they wouldn’t be attracted to someone middle aged) but I’m attracted to people who LOOK like my age range, even if they’re technically younger or older. So I can see how someone who LOOKS 21 forever, would still be looking at that age range for a partner.
@@PortiaDDoesStyle If paranormal dude is like 100 or something , that peep won't just stay single forever, or date someone thats 80 so i think its fine
I love hearing people rant, this made my day.
These all seem like easy rules to follow. In fact, most of them are just plain common sense. Can we please have more authors with basic common sense when it comes to romance? Great video as usual, Jenna! I can always depend on you for education and entertainment! :)
Here’s a sub-point for number 8: The abusive partner that is redeemed through a sad backstory.
“Oh, despite the fact that this man assaulted me, manipulated me, and overall abused me, he had a sad backstory, so I still wanna jump his di-“
😭💀🤣
Anna Todd did that in After acting like Hardin seeing his mother get raped when he was a kid justified his treatment of Tessa.
"A slave falls in love with their owner."
*Stares so hard at Steven Universe that my eyes nearly pop out*
A post on a Monday? ALL HAIL THE QUEEN!
you're too kind!
One of my most hated romance tropes is forced heteronormativity. You know male main character and male sidekick have lots of chemistry, get along really well, have tons in common, have a shared history, have compatible personalities and yet the main character ends up a female character he's given no development with and has nothing in common with because God forbid we imply that our main male character is anything but 110% straight. Like I have nothing against male male friendship but for chrissakesdon't tear people together just because there are a man and a woman.
Or, write better romances, alongside good friendships... whatever the preferences.
I have a suggestion for a video:
*Satellite Characters*
Can you explain what they are? I don't really understand this kind of character and I'd like to know if they are okay or a terrible type of character. Is there a way to make them good?
I didn't know about Satellite Characters before reading your comment. But just by the sound of it, I guess they're not good characters. By "Satellite" I guess it's supposed to mean that their entire "personality" is that they revolved around another character. Just like a satellite. If you remove the character they revolve around, there's nothing left of them, they doesn't have any point or personality left.
Thus said, that's my guess based on the name xD But the name really speak of itself so I don't think I must be far from the reality.
@@Hadeshy Yeah, I'm pretty sure satellite characters are people that revolve around the main character and nothing else. I don't think I've come across this, but they don't sound very fun to read about lol
@@Hadeshy YOu're right.
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SatelliteCharacter
You could write a satellite character who looses whoever they’re obsessed with and then write their character arc into becoming their own person??? That’s the only way I would think of making them compelling
The "abuser redemption arc" CAN be done well if you're clever. The abuser becoming a better person and trying to get back with the victim... no. However, I do like stories that see the abuser get help and reconnect with the victim to have a conversation and apologise for their behaviour. Maybe they can even move on together and, whilst they can never be romantic again, they can respect one another.
Jenna I have recently found your channel and it has helped me with my story so much! I love your sassy nature. I have a question, I have been writing a dragon story with heavy fighting scenes, how do I make them seem less repetitive?
First time I've ever been online when she posted!!! That's awesome!!
yay!!!!!!!
I stopped what I was doing and watched this video. The best and and worst trope videos are the best and my guilty pleasure.
Can you do a best or worst ways to end a novel? I'm currently working on my ending and I'm feeling stuck...😢
re: Mayfly-December Romances (immortal/mortal)
This is a trope I've written a _lot_ in my years of roleplay and its' something that I often enjoy writing. Unfortunately, I can't really provide an answer as to _why_ I enjoy it and _why_ it tends to work as it _heavily_ depends on the characters involved.
For example, one of my immortal characters, Dawn Rose, is a 12,000 year old immortal woman that has had at least a hundred or so human lovers over the course of her life. (That's a lot but bear in mind this is spread over _millennia._) She's a very, _very_ family oriented woman that adores having a significant other and _especially_ having children. It also lets her get out into the world and interact with people that _aren't_ her stuffy, secrecy-obsessed immortal family members. She likes seeing things change and enjoys getting out into the world. She finds common ground through people that love record keeping or something of the like.
I can get why you dislike the trope and you're entitled to your opinion. Just thought I'd offer my personal perspective!
*She's 21 and he's ancient*
Me: *Reading Lore Olympus* Um-
God my writing friend is writing a love triangle and just... why??? I mean I fully support his career but love triangles make me want to rip my eyes out of my head 😂
noooooooooo!!!!!
Me too, I really, REALLY hate them. And the annoying thing is that you can’t get away from them. They’re in pretty much EVERYTHING. It’s not an immediate turn off for me anymore, mainly because if it was, there wouldn’t be anything to go back to. Also, I don’t think they’re a thing in real life. At least, not how books and movies describe it. I’ve been dating my boyfriend for a year and a half, and I haven’t looked at any other guys (or gals) romantically since. If you’re actually in love with your partner, you won’t look at someone else like that.
I have been waiting for this video my whole life
LOL me too!
@@JennaMoreci GAH I have been blessed by the writing gods 💖
I've just hit around 10,000 words and am still establishing the vague crush/love interest (though my story isn't a romance, aha) and this video came at just the right time! I gotta know what to avoid, haha😂
Thank you Jenna!
Tip leave it open for a sequel ...milk as much as you can.
I hate when they tease the romance with zero payoff. We get to read a hundred pages about these two teasing each other and then they “get together” the end. What?!
"What does a young woman want in a grandpa?"
this whole thing just reminded me of Monica and Richard from Friends.
BONUS VIDEO!!!! :D
Edit: Anyone with half a brain doesn't like love triangles... BWAHAHAHAHA
LOL I'm sorry I had to!
@@JennaMoreci It made my freaking day!!
OMG I love you and your channel! Your honesty is brutal and hilarious!
I do what I can :P
It’s perfect! I think your channel is fantastic!
Omg I am so excited for this video you always make videos about things I'm writing or need. I'm currently writing a romance and could use a list of things NOT TO DO. XD
LOLOL happy to help
How to solve problems: Don't! Just distract the readers with a convoluted love triangle! I'm sure nobody will notice!
- Terrible Writing Advice, probably (check out his channel too, if you like Jenna's stuff, you'll like his. Also, Overly Sarcastic Productions has a cool series called Trope Talks which is great too)
I'm surprised these romance tropes weren't included
-Sickengly Sweethearts (easily the most annoying romance trope)
-Strangled by the Red String
-Will They, Or Won't They?
-One Sided Love Designated
-Offscreen Breakup
-Dating What Daddy Hates
-Pairing Someone Off Just Because the Story’s Ending
-Star-Crossed Lovers
And those are only a few at the top of my head. lol Love your trope videos btw.
Jenna is a true legends writing and advice
awww thank you!
Writing with Jenna Moreci you seriously made my day 😊
16 and 20? Know multiple people. Doesn't shock me in the slightest.
Autobook is out!! Yesss!! Time to listen to The Saviors Champion! Woohoo!✨
yesssss do it!
One of my best stories is one set in ancient Greece, where a slave, a half egyptian girl, falls in love with one of her owners, an arystochratich woman. Of course, she never gets anything more than a hug, and it happens when said woman is desperate for affection. Her owner never treats her wrong, she even starts thinking of her as a friend at some point.
Ahhhh I love you for using the word “allosexual” your language is so inclusive and ahhhh I just can’t explain how awesome that is!!!
Now best romantic tropes?
Adio book here I come!! Your local dyslexic fan here to thank you a million times over ❤️
Ah thank you! The huge age differences trope always have driven me insane! It’s a huge problem in a lot of the manga I read.
Bro that “slaves falling in love with their master” that’s just…no
Netflix has a show about a slave witch who falls in love with her master, gets burned at the stake and makes a deal with a wizard to be transported to the future. There are moments where she's tempted to go back in time to be a slave just so she can be with her master/boyfriend.
Why do I feel like twilight fits into like half of these tropes
Because it does.
Seriously it's not a good story.
Legit the only characters I like that entire series are Alice and Jasper and it's cause they are the only ones that feel like real people.