Narcissists Who Gaslight After Gaslighting
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- There are all sorts of ways narcissists try to create confusion by gaslighting you. Once you become aware, you might call them out or challenge their mistreatment. Dr. Les Carter explains how they can then feel justified for the next round of gaslighting. They just cannot stop themselves, but you are not required to stay on their path to confusion.
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Dr. Les Carter is a best selling author and therapist who has semi-retired to Waco, TX. For 40+ years he maintained a counseling practice in Dallas, conducting more than 65,000 therapy sessions and many workshops and seminars. He specializes in anger management and narcissistic personality disorder.
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You can't expect peace from a narcissist when they are incapable of amicably resolving small differences
I am 62 years old, I went recently no contact with my 60 year old Narc sister. Last year I divorced my Borderline Personality husband. I am cleaning out all the toxic people in my life. God has given me the strength to do so. You are never too old to gain freedom and blessed Peace.
Good no mow madson,gift sum happisun
I'm so happy for you. It is difficult, sad, and freeing.
Im 58 and if i smell a narcissistic rat, i resist..
I'm doing this too. It's never too late!
I'm still trying to divorce mine but he keeps using these delayed tactics and switching out lawyers like toilet paper. I'm so drained, can't even get to the trial because of the nonsense.
No contact was my only option. The abusive cycle will never end. I had to protect my emotional health.
They zero care about health. Anyone that’s focused on Negativity? That’s a sick person
What if you cannot go no contact because narcissist(s) are so clever on how they remain in touch with us? Do we only try in vain to go on with our day after day or do we instead risk being called a no-it-all or with ADHD or whatever while we are responding appropriate to whatever crisis they present to us? Some people have while no longer knowing what else to do about it then decide to become a priest to get away from all the drama where at least they will have only a bit better chance of getting any appreciation for being themselves. Instead of getting married to someone who would then have to be the main person trying to help them cope with the same while both maybe are going down too instead. Like after they got conscripted into the Argentine army where they found it impossible when trying to fit in with everyone there. Just ask pope Francis what he went through on his way to that alternative place top of the heap instead.
yes only way with toxic gaslighting narc inlaws and obese bully cousin
They are not doing that though. They are still playing mind game online too. Fake news about our own American navy too.
Absolutely, there is no other option. They cannot be in your life in any capacity. They will totally destroy you mentally, emotionally, physically. I’ve been free for 6 months. Glad you are free.💪🏻
Been there, been through all of that. Been narcissist free for 6 months. They will NEVER acknowledge, own up, admit to any of this gaslighting abuse. NEVER!
Exactly! Once you figure out what they're doing, then you are the crazy one.
So True... I never got anything but Silence ...
@@jodizellmer994 I’ve heard that many times! And paranoid too!
@@jakelebowski7901 my ex never went silent, if it was up to him, he would rant and rage for 24 hrs. I was the one to go silent on him.
You are absolutely right!! They will NEVER acknowledge
I saw " the light" when he told me I was unstable in my mind when I questioned his motives. I told him he was emotionally abusive with his gaslighting. Every day passing of no contact with him makes me more happy. Wishing healing to you all ❤
That’s their favorite thing to say to you YOUR CRAXY everyone of them say it Your a crazy bitch
A self admitted narcissist started calling me a narcissist for not tolerating her gaslighting and criticism of me. So wild. I don’t have any patience or time for these people.
My Ex did the same thing.
"I don't remember ~ but I know I never said that."
Or. I didn't hear that! Not that it was selective hearing 😮
Have heard that exact sentence several times!
Both landlords and real estate agents seem to be well above average in their usage of this trick.
Heard that one!
Then again, it could be (partially) due to my above average exposure to landlords and real estate agents. They truly seem to be particularly fond of that tool…
I showed her a photo and out of nowhere came an insult. I threw my Pearl's before a swine.
Better to be on your own than deal with a nararcisist. They need people people don't need them!
Yes, they need people to 'feed' off of; to provide them 'supply'.
They accuse you of being a narcissist when you survive what they did to you
Absolutely! Go Figure! Lol🙃
@@michellehill718 they make the whole world 🌎🌍 seem like it's crowded with narcissistists
Yup. When I confronted my ex for cheating she called me self centered
Not being able to abuse the victim is "abuse" to the narcissist.
They are sick, really *e*f*f*e*d* up individuals. I normally don't talk that way but there really isn't much good you can say for these sick and toxic people. 😞 They need help! ..
Did anyone else have their partner walk into a room that you're in and say with no signs what are you angry about? When you say I'm not angry. They say yes you are till you are in a fight about how you aren't angry? At this point you are now very angry.
Yes. Narcissa frequently tells me what I'm thinking, feeling, and what motivates me.
Yes and it use to be exhausting now I just shut off
Isn't it interesting how the narcissist makes you think you're the narcissist ,then the enablers join in and now the narcissist is a victim. It's like an insane nightmare that you can't wake from. When the whispering campaign takes hold only you seem to see it for what it is: abuse. Bullying at its best (and they are the victim?)
It's time to Gaslight the Gaslighter
Value yourself and your belief system 🙏🏻
They WILL destroy your life. You have to get out. Don't answer the phone, bolt the doors and eventually they will get the message. After you get away from them it's a battle not to get drawn back into their drama. Little to no contact is the only way out.
I am slowly realizing that I need to leave to get away from the abusers
I wasn’t aware of so many things he said to me that were actually gaslighting. I was in denial about his abuse because I couldn’t believe that the person I was in love with would be so cruel but I can’t continue ignoring the obvious. The constant invalidation, confusion, and anxiety I felt finally gave me strength to go no contact.
“I lied about lying BUT NOW I’m telling the truth.”
Spot on 🎯
Yeah. That's it.
Right
To identify and evade narcissists, you have to be 110% with your own intuition and trust it 100%. People who don't trust their own gut feelings (especially when dealing with other people) are the most susceptible to being manipulated by these people. Thank you Dr C for these videos. Thanks to you, i trust myself more and more every day.
I wonder if malignant narcissists have to rely on being able to find one of us average when it comes to narcissistic traits people to use in order to achieve their goals. The silver lining for us average people when having to find out the hard way that narcissism exists is us learning how to outgrow our own narcissistic traits. Like when we believe that we can change the only at first occasional questionable behavior of another person by making their life happier by marrying them or whatever. Since I am never going to be perfect at both not tolerating any kind of less than ideal behavior in others while trying to continue being a warm loving person too how can I restrain my own pride from going before a fall when believing I can trust my own intuition 100%? When my intuition is failing to protect me that is when I need to listen better to my trusted friends and trusted relatives who are warning me instead.
You're spot on Chester. Unfortunately children of narcissists become conditioned to suppressing their gut feelings because they know no different and the act of challenging their parents' false narrative is met with overwhelming aggression and punitive measures.
@@francesbernard2445 Intuition rarely fails, if you're in tune with it. I will take what my intuition tells 10 out of 10 times over what another person tells me.
@@olivermahon9509 I know....i am one of those children who is now an adult. You're 100% spot on.
Some can really trick you a while though BC they lie😢
Narcissist: " Those awful psychologists are ruining this society. " 🤔
Or anyone else who figures them out
True!
@@SurvivingNarcissism , yes it is good that narcissists get exposed for all the senseless hardships and destruction they are creating.
The channel "estanged parents" says this about their children who have gone no contact with them. Those pesky therapists destroying their supply.
@@cassiebennet4262, yes I can imaging narcissists see it that way and it makes the aging narcissist weak .
I have learned to laugh out loud a lot and say "of course you're right" as I'm walking away chuckling. Even in the inconsequential everyday talk, the stuff that makes no difference, they gaslight
I can't do that, that triggers mine into rage and that's very dangerous for me
Is no gazzlite,is ahh, gasdark,dank,dum,destruction
You just described my neighbor
@@honestly_present totally my first thought!!
If I would have done that Ex would have flipped out!!
@@michellemcbride6327 Agree. Some narcissists are sorta volatile & angry types (dealt with a few in the past) & that whole chuckling' thing probably wouldn't go over so well with them.
I know one thing for certain, Gus is no gaslighter. What a sweet dog.
Every single manipulation tactic all but implies the use of the lying tactic and the gaslighting tactic. I actually dislike it a little calling out gaslighting as a manipulation tactic as it's actually an effect. All manipulation tactics will contribute to it by nature of what manipulation is. Some tactics however certainly take the gaslighting effect to a whole different level. Blatant lies that are so bad they insult your intelligence is one of them. That kind of shit will make you feel like you are in the twilight zone after a while. Here are some of the reasons they do this: To test their control. To feel superior and/or entertainment. This proves to themselves how much control they have over you. In the end, you will give up and you will not leave (trauma bonded). In the process of getting to the giving up stage, you will go through some pretty nasty emotional states ending in massive amounts of cognitive dissonance to swallow all of that. Cognitive dissonance is a trauma defense mechanism where you essentially lie to yourself in various ways so that you can bring back some semblance of equilibrium to the insanity you find yourself unable to escape from. As part of the ‘backing you into an emotional corner’ tactic. This is a tactic where you are manipulated into being emotionally unstable inevitably leading to you losing your shit. This gives the narcissist a big dopamine burst, they feel powerful and superior having so deftly controlled you and manipulated into this emotional state. To finish the little game they play, they make sure to point out how unhinged and unstable you are and suggest that perhaps you need help or medication. Of course, you will internalize all that shame and guilt and the million other raging emotions they have created and swallow all that essentially allowing them to scapegoat their blame and accountability onto you. Bring on some more cognitive dissonance and gaslighting effects. To condition you to expect less respect, and ultimately put up with more abuse. You will tire of the inevitable circular argument trying to convince the narcissist of the blatantly obvious lie and eventually find yourself challenging them less and less as you subconsciously accept the fact that if you do it will just make your life and emotional state more miserable and you will be denied the satisfaction of any kind of ‘win’ even if it is easy to disprove. This is part of the domination process and makes sure all the power in the relationship ends up with them by the end. To turn your mind to mush as the gaslighting effect takes hold more and more over time. This makes you even easier to control. Many times while easy to disprove it requires some kind of concession of some obvious truth that the narcissist can just doggedly refuse to agree with or remember (‘the intentional forgetting’ tactic and the ‘feigned confusion or ignorance’ tactics are often employed for this). So, in fact, it is not so easy to prove when the narcissist refuses to correctly remember what happened 10 min ago or accept sound logic or reasoning. You will just turn blue in the face trying. Of course, in some cases it is indisputable. A phone log or something. My experience is when this kind of stuff happens it wasn’t their intention typically, although sometimes it was. But in these scenarios, you will typically get some sort of angry ‘invalidating’ tactic, with some good old ‘manufactured rage’ and ‘intimidation’ tactics to ‘put you on the defensive’ and get you more susceptible to further manipulation. Maybe something like: “Get over yourself already” followed up by some ‘blame-shifting’ tactics with some good old ‘guilt’ and ‘shame’ tactics, like “Why the hell are you spying on my phone records anyway? What kind of relationship is this? I don’t have any privacy? I don’t know if I can do this anymore! You have major jealousy issues! You need help!” You will walk away as the loser either way. There are resistance tactics that can be used but this is a very difficult tactic to deal with and it is one of their favorites. I won’t get into the counter-tactics here though. The only way to really win in a relationship with a narcissist is to leave them and go no contact. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done Metaspyhub@gmail. com,,
100 %
The worst kind of gaslighting is "just kidding" gaslighting. They'll try to get you to do something or feel a certain way and then criticize you for falling right into their trap. It's completely crazy-making.
My mom likes to say, “You just want to fight,” whenever I ask her to check herself and see what she’s doing is wrong. She turns it into me being antagonistic whenever I ask her to stop being mean to me!
It’s exhausting. That is barely any of it.
Yep. My friend would start all kinds of bs. Then when I would call him out on it he would accuse me of just wanting to argue
Crazy behavior
I just tell him I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. It always runs him down to the basement, and the gaslighting stops minus his presence. Soon as he comes back, repeat...😁
The sad part of narcissism is the current court system will usually see it the way the narcissist does. My wife and I both have exes we are in court with and the judge always rules in their favor. It’s ridiculous.
Narcissists manipulate the court system. They will lie and cheat to get their way. It's awful!
You’re correct, MacJ. Narcissists use the court system without hesitation as a tool to attack their targets, and they think it’s perfectly okay to lie. Narcissists also use law enforcement as a way to attack or punish you. Don’t forget... narcissists have to be “in control”, and they actually enjoy causing chaos and drama. Their behavior is sick and evil.
Key is to record them. That’s what saved me in court… his own words in his voice.😂
@@southernette6750 that’s why my wife and I only communicate with him and his new “personal assistant” via group text. The three children are not that lucky.
Seducing spirit
"We gaslight before we gaslight, and then we gaslight some more!"😂
Do you, now? 🙄
Hey!! You up there!! Can you keep it down?? Were havin my kid’s birthday party here.
@@DrPhilGoode !!!
It really is that crazy.
😂 Its almost like it gets to a point where they KNOW we know the truth, but they go deeper and further… FOR FUN.
@@tbunnyshy1 🤣 the biggest mind F in history proves (at least to me) that gaslighting and projection etc are reactionary defense strategies narcs use in order to get past the current moment of shame. But they may not really remember what they did in the moment.
Lets say internally, the narc is empty and fearing abandonment. Unlikely I know 🤣🤣but just for illustration sake 🤣🤣.
And you say, hey can you move your car out of the garage so I can get the mower? She says, you mean that mower that makes the garage smell like your tiny d!k?
I leave for 2 days in search for a bigger d!k pump than the one she bought me for our anniversary. When I get back home, I’m still pissed at her, but she acts like nothing is wrong. She says… “what is wrong with you?? Somebody is having their period.”
That’s when I lose it and confront her about what she said. I tell her I can’t believe she would say that, and I would never say that to anyone. She says “what are you even talking about”. This is where it goes south, but it doesn’t have to.
Usually I would answer the question by telling her exactly what she said. However, I just gave her all of my ammo. We all know she will say…”OMG I never said that”. Instead, I should say, “You know exactly what you said”.
Now, she knows that she did something wrong, but she can’t deny it or defend herself. She will frantically and impatiently try and pull it out of you.
You tell her it is up your butt and she will have to go rootin around in there if she wants to find it. Now she’s miserable which buys me time to go use my new pump in the neighbors pool shed. Victory is mine.
Yes, "this doesn't warrent a conversation" is what BOTH my parents would say!!! They enjoyed out doing each other in abusing me!!!
I have tried to stay calm: so many failed attempts. Very difficult once he kicks off , let the game commence. So Pretending that i am ok with his barrage of abuse and that he is not getting to me ?
I cant do it. i am breaking inside. The lies and th abuse is so bad you would have to be made of stone to be able to take it, cope with it. That level of evil. If you manage to not let it effect you , or pretend to not let it effect you, he will get you on the next round. Its all a game for them.the pointlessness the dispair the entrapment the pain we all feel from these evil hartless sociopathetic monsters who just thoroughly enjoy making our lives a misery. It would be nice to see these people all locked up in mental institution.
What did we ever do but good to these ungrateful disrespectful horrible humans to deserve this kind of treatment.... Im exhausted with it all
I hear you and I’m sorry for all you went through. My answer is once I caught onto their manipulative patterns and techniques, I comforted myself by KNOWING what they’re doing. Its no longer a mystery in other words. I pay attention to what upsets me and I REMOVE the buttons they push, if that makes sense. It takes PRACTICE. If you get upset, just BEGIN AGAIN. Thats all. Begin again. ❤
I'd pay to see that😂😂😂
Try to identify what angers you by watching your emotions. If you constantly extremely stressed the narcissist has an easy game. The narcissist also causes stress in you through, depending on the narc, chaos , pushiness or disdain. After a while you will recognize the pattern . Do not take it personally, narcs toy with everyone .
@@tbunnyshy1 Agreed!
Can you leave them?? Remove yourself?
They start every sentence with YOU!
Lol
I'm an organized person person,my husband narc. hates that because he's always miss placing things,so he move my things around to confuse me. I told him if he don't stop,I'm out that door for good.he stopped a month ago.who knows how long that will be.he play other mind games as will,denied it than silent treatment. another great video Dr.C thankyou! It's a slow process of moving on.
Leave him Kathleen. A relationship with a narcissist can only go one direction and that's a downhill road through hell. There's no fixing them or the situation.
Every thing they think is right is ethically wrong! They are jealous and controlling!
When you call them out, they turn it around on you, and THEN say that YOU'RE turning it around on THEM. They accuse you of being the abusive and narcissistic one, and they rewrite every word that was ACTUALLY said (and totally ignore anything you DID say).
I had to resort to recording and video taping my older sister, the gaslighting, abusive narc in my life. She would tell me, "Ya know. You left the doors unlocked last night. We could have been robbed or killed. This is the third time this month you did this. Are you getting forgetful? Dementia? Alzheimers? You are getting old ya know." My memory is great. She is the one who kept going in and out and then her granddaughters came over, then her daughter. Sheesh...! So the next time she tried to gaslight me on this, I showed her my videos from making sure all doors were locked all over the house every night. She was shocked and went into one of her rages. She's too fat to catch me so I ran into my room, locked my door as she pounded on it, and laughed my head off!!! LOL!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 What a bellowing buffalo!!!
🦬🦬🦬🦬🦬🦬🦬🦬🦬🦬🦬🦬
Also, I still love people! Because of Dr. Carter's videos, I am empowered with tools to recognize narcissistic behaviors and not get sucked back into their black hole of devastation. I see more clearly what they are trying to do and can walk away from their games.... guilt free. Then I lift them up in prayer for their mental health issues to be dealt with by the LORD. This battle is His. I can't fight it myself. Dr. Carter is proof GOD hears our prayers! 💜💜✝️✝️🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Coming from the person, who is saying "she's too fat to catch me"....cause fat shaming and making fun of Dementia is real funny....hmm I wonder who really is the narcissist in your situation.
Email only... If you must is good evidence. My hoover was very condescending and controlling manipulative
@@AuroraOctaneJ611 Not sure why you attributed the talk of dementia to nalvar82. Or why extensive gaslighting is ignored in Favour of one mention of 'fat'.
@@AuroraOctaneJ611
The commenter's statement of FACT, that the abuser was too heavy to catch them, was a statement of fact, not "fat shaming." They quoted their sibling who spoke of Dementia. Did you actually read their comment for truth, or are you looking to accuse them?
@@AuroraOctaneJ611Again you ignore elements, like the rages the person has - you depict it like they expressed a concern about the door locks and then when shown evidence they took it well and then were just called fat rather than chasing the evidence giver down and banging on their door. Of course this person is the perfect victim every time you ignore their transgressions and just focus on how they were called fat, not to their face, but in some comments on youtube. If you don't want to see any faults on the older sisters side - well as Dr Carter would say, okay, you're free to choose that.
I do want to find peace. I do not want to play her game anymore. But it's cheaper to keep'er. 😞 Idk. I feel stuck. I want the best for my 4 and 9 year old girls. A lot of disregulation is being modeled to them which is being mirrored back to us. I am trying my best to be peaceful. Love Y'all at Team Healthy.
Sorry Captain but when it comes to narcissistic partners, beyond a short time horizon, it is never cheaper to keep'er. The long-term costs on you and your family's health and well-being WILL spiral out of control. There's no hope of fixing them or the situation.
@@olivermahon9509 @@olivermahon9509 If I leave who will model the healthy alternative perspective to my impressionable 4 and 9 year old girls? You may be right. The relationship is on borrowed time. I am strong enough in my conviction of who I am to endure a while longer until their old enough to think clearly for themselves.
Yes, the lies are unbelievable!
When they are on a roll they use even your existence against you. One vulnerability or supposed one for that matter gets them on blame and attack mode. The only thing that stops all this is firm confidence in your goodness and truth within you.
I always say to people who ask why I have no relationship with my narcissistic sister that my very existence upset her. So I just took myself out of the picture.
Her: "You dissociated from the relationship."
Also her: skips out on plans to cheat on me
"please help me to remember saying that, when did i say that, i want you to quit your job"...
What I find very painful is that she always back her story up, by saying ' everybody said that about you, people said that there is something very wrong with you '
A few weeks ago, i noticed i overthought how i talked and behaved when see someone for example in the supermarket. I highly critisised my self till i cried and noticed my mom broke my own self.
Ps. I hope my Englisch is not to bad, as it is not my first language
You communicated beautifully. Check out an older video of mine, Your Ultimate Superpower When Dealing With A Narcissist. It's all about learning to trust yourself. It's one of my favorites.
@@SurvivingNarcissism Thank you so much Dr. Carter for your kind words and try to help me with an other great video of yours made to help us all, i will search for it. Thank you for all you do, eventhough it means i can never go back to when I thought my mom really truly cared for me ( when i was very young child). I've learned that I just wanted to believe that. At first I believed she cared, then I hoped she cared, then when hope was gone, she really took the ground beneath my feet and I don't even know if she understands, how much it hurts.
@@1Marflowa
When a person says "Everybody says that about you . ." they are "stacking the deck" against you, meaning that they are laying one thing upon another ("stacking"), upon yet another accusation to convince you that you are a problem. It is not ethical at all, but a tactical maneuver against your soul. If something were honestly wrong with you, and the person were in integrity, they would *NOT "stack the deck" against you, but would treat their concerns in an ethical manner. No ethical person of integrity "stacks the deck" (layering their accusations), nor do they "turn the tables" on you (turning things around on you, from the wrong *they did, falsely claiming it was your doing). People of integrity handle things ethically, so when they say or do whatever it is that they're doing, measure what they are doing by what is ethical. Narcissists do those things to wage war against you, so they can pretend that they "won," so they can pretend they "are somebody." We all have wanted to believe that our parents loved us, and many, many of us have gone through the same processes that you have, in learning that the truth was quite different. Love and healing to you, hugs.
My ex would claim that my family members said all kinds of things about me that were simply preposterous.
This just happened to me today at work. 🙄
This is the standard of how I was [razed] by my single mother. (she drove my father off & did parental alienation) I am 60 & still going through the agonizing healing process. ..and it is agonizing ..like death & giving birth. Dr. C, your wisdom, candor & compassion are invaluable to me in this process
I Sympathize With You Guys.. Similar Situation But I Got Me And My Girls Out... God Is Good!
@@Teacher369 wpver CT eggggpiiigpggpgpiigggc I igooogohhipgigijocgsaaaws awgiooouofuoouououaogoghvggc I og(99999://///8pa?? I’m so happy I 6
A got yiutit Io pool with yessso but not the same person I used as an A with .$..$8,8.83&11
Nutty Helicopter ; " Karen- Zillas" are really good at FAST & furious accusations. NOT PRETTY....
It really is agonizing. Realizing your parent never loved you is the worst.
You're not alone. I turn 60 this year and it's been quite a journey, but I'm well into healing and that took a whole lot of internal work. Coming to terms with the fact that my worth and my value is determined by me and me alone. Wishing you the best in your journey
Timely. No wonder so many feel crazy.
The cumulative effect is enormous, indeed, your work is precious
Wow wow wow, you described my dad perfectly. The crazy thing is he would never recognize these behaviors in himself even if they were spelled out to him this clearly.
As you can attest, they are not known for being insightful.
This is so true, and they will deny saying the MOST abusive things to you ! Some are complete monsters behind closed doors, and once in a while, their mask will slip in front of someone. Then, others begin to see what REALLY has occured with the abuser....
Let's face the facts, Narcissists are EFFED up in every way!
That's not a description in the textbooks, but people on the street can relate!
“That’s just YOU being insecure……” 😢
Of course it is! Yep! Got it! Lol 🙃
i know someone who played a victim ever gaslighting me for 6 months. but then continued to after doing it. the excuses kept shifting and then they said they "didn't want to be my friend" and was being "honest" and didn't because they knew how I bad I would "take it", like I took the gaslighting and manipulation better? lol.... he called me needy because I spent a year trying to understand why he was treating me terribly after saying he was my "best friend". Oh, only your best friend when you wanted me to be? I don't think they understand what a friend - let alone best friend is. it has to go the other way ... at least sometimes. Because you make that point - you're too needy, or "too close". it's all about control my friends, they are deeply insecure people.
The "selective memory' plays a part in all of this too. This person literally admitted to me of all the bad qualities of a narcissist because he was so trusting of me, and I made him feel extremely comfortable for being "who he is" without judgment. Now, it's being denied and like none of that happened - none of those truths exist anymore because the people they surround themselves with now "don't know" that about them.
The self-sufficiency illusion is right on too. It's the mechanism that convincing them they are "healthy", it protects their self-image and the public image that they're trying to "keep". While not actually doing any of the things that someone with a good "public" image would - like reconcile, compromise, and keeping harmony. They are just "unable". if you get a convert, you will hear that term peppered throughout "unable to" but "want to" - if they're honest and don't know why they behave in the negative ways they do. That doesn't change the fact that all of it is highly narcissistic and destructive, and even abusive. It's tragic.
the "final message" this person gave to me during a final discard was chalk full of personal attacks designed to paint me as inadequate, unstable, and needy - all elements mind you, of attempts to reconcile and tolerate high levels of abuse int he name of understanding and compassion. The reaction to the abuse is so real that they cannot continue with you because they "Feel like they're bad" and a covert cannot feel that way. it makes them "uncomfortable" and lets remember - coverts crave comfort aka self-esteem validation so that makes it impossible for them to move past themselves and see your humanity.
after all that I don't see covert narcs as "bad people". They are just extremely flawed, suffering souls who SEE the damage that is going on around them, KNOW what they're doing but FEEL like they have no other choice. I relate it to "freezing" in a burning house. unable to move because they're unable to change, they become the "ultimate victim" of themselves. But They need to blame others because - well lets be honest - who could blame themselves and be functional? It happens so often the need to externalize - to justify becomes so strong to avoid deepening depression and self-hatred. It's why when the shadow-self is broken, coverts have extremely high suicidal success rates. Writing these people off as inhuman and irredeemable is imo unhealthy and isn't the way, but neither is staying in abusive relationships. It's an impossible situation for all involved but the covert has simply adapted to survive while we're not fit for that burning house and smoke filled toxic air; Nor should you be.
Highly empathetic people like to think themselves the fire fighter, but the reality is. tons of fire fighters die in the pursuit of saving another. It's noble, self-less, but we all know that the fires never stop coming. We have to find another way to stop them from igniting all together. I could go on about the social and economic structures I believe are deeply tied to these maladaptive human behaviors but the simple part of it is that we need build better practices around preventive social structures and recognizing that these individuals are a sign of a collapsing and failing society. So in a weird way, they are actually right. The world was out to get them but for them it was in a way that altered their perception where they feel the need to be destructive to try to feel loved.
Yes. He said to me: “ I will destroy you”.
Moved into slander and libel, now. After months' long investigation, the corporation determined I was my mom's beneficiary. Offering half to the sister, however, she declined and wanted it all proclaiming to all her relatives and my children and friends that I stole $5000.
It gets ugly real fast. Let’s just say my relatives didn’t like how my Great Aunt left her estate. She wanted to pass things on to the youngest for their futures. Things turned ugly very fast. I’m sorry for what you had to endure and I hear you. ❤
Yes , fairness does not matter to narcissist. I inherited an equal share of the estate after my n father died , but it happened only because of my dear step mother´s influence and office oversight. You will need to keep a stiff upper lip knowing that you are right.
@@mariaawake4502 thanks
It’s bizarre and they always have to make every decision
My interpretation when I hear them say mean things about others is truly how they are deep down. Ever noticed how toxic individuals in general will criticize others and at the same time display the exact behaviors they themselves are doing? Interesting!
Narcissist insult others for the same things they do all the time because they project. They feel if they call others what THEY are no one will detect them.
You just said it, sabotaged me behind my back. I couldn’t have said it any better than you just did 👍
“You always need to be right.”
It was a case of spectacular gaslighting that led to me finding out about narcissism. Truly life-changing! I’m realizing more and more ways gaslighting happens and and how pervasive it is. So many things my narc spouse says all the time are actually gaslighting. Everything from “correcting” how I see or experience things to denying my feelings or how something happened. It’s so frustrating and exhausting to feel like you always need to be on guard.
Same, here.
Lynn, you’re not alone in this sinking boat.
Same here with my now elderly mom. She has really worsened with age
Trusting our own awareness is the unique method to face this kind of people. When they accuse us of various lies, I just look deeply at their eyes and say yes, you are right.
I like this response. What can they say? I said something similar (agreeing with an untrue negative accusation) to my ex once and she almost started to argue.
Why would you tell a false accuser that they were right in their false accusations?
@@cacatr4495 because you can't win, if you disagree they'll just go off at you
@@bereal6590
but one doesn't have to tell a false accuser that they were right in their false accusations. That's a lie against the truth and against one's own Conscience. There are other ways of handling it that are within the truth, that don't give the N what they want.
I learned about narcissism in 2019, lately I'll be thinking about different tactics they use for manipulation of their victims, & a video will pop up about it.
Dealing with a narcissist boss behaving like this currently, very hard trying to hold my boundary.
My mom says she’s not jealous when I confront her about her behavior toward me if I go and visit friends. She doesn’t understand how I can have friends 10 or 15 years older than me. I’m in my early forties and I have some friends in their early 50s and early 60s. She will say things like, “ you seem to relate to them better than me.” Or , “ how can you hang out with people that much older than you?” She also says I want to be around people that have the same mindset as me. I thought that’s what you want in friends. I can talk to people with differing opinions than mine. I have no problem with that. I really think she would rather me hang out with her all the time and no one else. It’s really odd to me that she says the things she does to me. She has gotten mad and not talked to me for a few days if I’ve went somewhere without her. She treats me like I’m her spouse sometimes.
I literally have this happen during the same conversation that sometimes turns into him screaming at me and blaming me for him losing his cool. These videos are very helpful and I have learned how to deal with this in my head, until I can get away. Sadly he'll even throw at me words like I'm gaslighting him or goal posting him, I have no doubt when I do leave he'll turn around and tell anyone who will listen that I was the narcissist. Having a partner who is informed on narcissism makes for a whole new level of challenges, something I have yet to see anyone talk about but is very real. 2022 word of the year was gaslighting......
Yep. My narc. Studying narc. Says I'm a narc. Sweeping generalities. No examples... Yet I'm the one sitting discarded and he cheating.
My Ex-Girlfriend had to be studying about Narcissism, because when it finally got to the point, where I finally said, "There is some sort of Mental Illness in play here, and I think we need to reference an expert," the whole thing changed, and it was the beginning of the end. From that point on, she insisted I was a Narcissist.
@@kevinewing-oo8ix...Same exact scenario with Me.
I'm sure my sister tells people I'm the narcissist. She accused me of being pompous, arrogant, selfish, poisonous, flaunting my 'trinkets' all the time, which I assume means my cell phone, small home, six year old car, etc. No contact for three years come June. Yeah, I love being an only child.
This is Malignant *Anti-TRUTH… They Know that they are Lying, yet, the “Power Charge” that they get… ie. ~ The Narcissistic Supply Juice Hits… And worse ~ Once the NARC has a Group of FLYING MONKEYS… It’s like the Twilight Zone TV Program.
🕊🍃
••••••••••••••••••••••••••
* Jordan B Peterson Coined the TERM:
~ ANTI -TRUTH ~
Which JBP says, “Is Worse than a LIE.”
OK, now I KNOW you're somehow reading my texts and emails and basing your scripts on my mother.
Well timed episode, once again. After months of Silent Treatment (across a thousand miles), my covert narcissistic mother reached out and tried to pretend nothing was wrong. I told her we're not willing to pretend, and she responded with a boatload of amped up gaslighting. She doubled down on all of her previous claims, compared me to my deceased father for all of his negative traits, and lied about previous interactions (all in text). So I have finally decided to go fully No Contact. I'm done trying to persuade her to be kind. I'm done trying to get her to acknowledge basic facts. I am done arguing on my own behalf. All this time (54 years!) she has used my hope for winning her love as the key ingredient to her psychological, emotional, physical, and even sexual abuse. I owe her nothing more. I want the last years of my life to be lived in peace. So...peace out, Mom!
Thanks for shining a light on the path, Dr. Carter.
Congratulations on your newfound peace. Their love is unwinable: you have better things to do than to struggle in vain with them.
After it was all said and done. I was so exhausted.
Yes! They don't want to put thngs into context. Constent invalidation!
Excellent video, Dr. C. Cleaning the narcs out of my life was the healthiest thing I've ever done for myself.
Just before I leaft my last workplace, the employer had briefings about bullying, under the guise of people returning to work after Covid working from home, but it was really because of my bullying case. In it they said that giving someone the silent treatment was bullying, so of course it gave the bully reason to interpret me going 'grey rock' as me bullying her by giving her the silent treatment. In my last few weeks she was setting up situations where I couldn't respond or found it difficult to by a lot of other people talking and would look across to our line manager when she was doing so. They were both trying to set me up to look like I was bullying her. My line manager had motivation to do this because he ignored my complaints over 1 year earlier when he should have acted then.
The briefings aren't very self aware - what happens when someone has been bullied, they are supposed to effusively talk with the bully or otherwise they are bullying?
I had a similar experience. I needed a break teaching a class that was supposed to be rotated among four educators. The class took a lot of time to set up and I wasn't getting my other work done. I asked the lead for a break and she never answered the question. She just kept asking questions. I decided to go for a walk to not blow up. I came back and firmly stated that it was someone else's turn to teach the class since I had taught it three times in a row. I knew this person was a narcissist, but not that the new hire was. The new hire would not talk to me and would be snarky with me, two things I refused to react to. She went to the boss, telling lies of me slamming the door and screaming. That never happened. I got warned. Two days later, I'm in the boss' office as she accused me of rolling my eyes and talking to myself. I never roll my eyes, but I do give myself advice. Got another warning. Two days later, I was called into the office for slamming my purse on my desk. I carry a backpack with my phone and kindle and usually a glass bottle of drink. Why would I slam my purse anywhere? I was fired, appealed it, was offered my position back, and said no thanks, change it to me quitting. That is the only company in my fifty years of working that accused me of bullying. Go figure.
This Is My Life. Married to an Alcoholic Narcissist. Praying and Your videos Help me A lot. Thanks Doctor Les! Love To You
I think all narcs are drunks. Even they can't stand themselves.
@@cynthiafortier2540 So Sad Isn't It? 😪
@@lisaruben6217 Yes it's horrible. I had to go no contact with my family of origin when I quit drinking. Oh they HATED me for wanting to get healthy. How dare I!!
@@cynthiafortier2540 . Proud of You Sister! Very Difficult to walk away from family but sometimes it's completely necessary. My Heart Goes out To You. ❤️🤗🏵️
@@lisaruben6217 I wouldn't wish this type of family is n my worst enemy. I release them with love DAILY. And I am sooooo proud of my sobriety. I don't need to numb anymore. Thankyou Lisa, we are in this together, ALL of us!
The first round of Gaslighting from my narc boss was often viewed w/ their "Duper's Delight " smirk, letting you know they just did you dirty. The second round of Gaslighting was always met w/rage (as if you didn't get the hint the time.) & crazy projection & lies..."I am not your boss...clearly, you're misconfused..you need serious Psychiatric treatment." "You don't listen very well..do you!"
This is their whole game it’s horrible to live with .
My mother was highly covertly narcissistic and would constantly gaslight me (& my brother) … but my father is much more highly vulnerable narcissistic and so i often witnessed my mother gaslighting my father before he could attempt to question her abusing me or my brother (eventually, they just coagulated as a kind of ‘narcissistic entity’ pretending to be parents together) 😌💓
You point out something to them, and they respond with, "I was just joking."
You're too sensitive 🥺
Heard this all the time. "You take things too seriously"
It seems like they are just insensitive and do not know they are embarrassing you but I'm starting to think they know and still say it
@@judyfreeman5193 Actually, they know alright 👍 Pretending they don't know is a form of gaslighting!
@@judyfreeman5193 They are VERY aware of what they are doing....VERY AWARE.
If I give someone advice or a suggestion to take better care of themselves and they don't take it for whats it worth, that's on them.
Thank you team healthy I just feel bad for being emotional as I try to set boundaries. I don't want to hurt anyone, so drained,the energy vampires side of my nar family.
Emotions are real, and they are normal. Set your boundaries. You get to decide if that boundary is a fence or just a gate. Either way, it establishes a border that shows where they must stop and your space begins.
Empaths have feelings ❣
Remember Julie, when setting boundaries we do so to protect our own emotional well-being and not to control others. With narcissists there's no hope of changing or improving them.
You can do this. Boundaries are beautiful. Your safe place. You deserve to be treated with respect. Go forward in this new direction. Keep learning. You are not alone in this.
They *want you to feel guilty for protecting yourself by setting boundaries, they don't want you to have boundaries, they want total access and authority over your breath, and all the details of your life. They want to trespass continually, your Will be damned. They do *Not care about the people that care about them, meaning you. You don't want to hurt anyone, but they *do! Boundaries are necessary. Boundaries will not hurt them, they just want you to believe they will, so you won't set them. Do not buy into their scam.
Well I was abused all the time with that gaslighting shat. The last time he gaslighted me was the straw that broke the camel's back. I've been no contact or low contact for over 2 years. Life is good ☺️
I have said to the narcissist, “I was simply trying to have an adult conversation”, not to gaslight, but rather to actually have an adult conversation. Not possible so best not to say it I suppose.
Sadly, I have said those same words to the N. I realized I was gaslighting myself. Duh.🤪
@@choosepeacetoday I don’t agree that saying that is gaslighting. Stating a fact isn’t gaslighting.
Vitriolic for sure Dr. C! Beyond cruel and abusive to say the least. LOL🙃Wow, it's really deep! Talk about control issues! It's beyond interesting to truly understand and to see so clearly. It's also pretty amazing to me (revealing is probably a better word) how badly so many are willing to treat us and other people they see and find so little value in.
If I could give this video 1,000,000 👍 I would, but it still wouldn’t be enough. Thank you , Dr Carter ☀️.
Make it a million and one. Even numbers erase the upvote. {Grin}
@@aaronkwolfe lol🤣
👍🤗
Thanks!!
Great video,thanks so much,so true!!
This exact thing happened to me yesterday, just the way DrC described. During a phone convo my narc sis was telling me what I had said (no, I didn't), what I thought (no, I didn't) and what I believed (no, I didn't). She clearly wanted to be the authority on my inner thoughts, the owner of my truths. When I continued to stand my ground she switched to telling me what another sibling should do, while insisting (demanding) that I should agree with her (again, I didn't). Then she switched to telling me how I felt about that sibling, (nope, wrong again). The more I stood my ground, holding onto my own truth, the more she doubled down, and the angrier she got. But each time she doubled down she also moved the goal posts. Finally I hung up on her. It was amazing to see the twisty winding path she took, trying to make me wrong, wrong, wrong. At the end we were miles away from where we started, totally on a different subject. "Gaslighting after gaslighting" is another way of describing when someone keeps moving the goalposts, trying to have the final say on your truth.
Next time I will hang up on her MUCH sooner.
🤗
"Next time I will hang up on her MUCH sooner" >> at "hello?" 😂 They do crazymaking; they're not worth dealing with.
@@cacatr4495 Ha! Yes, "at hello", even better. 🤣
"That's abuse" Yes! At one point, I had to cut off my sister. We are no contact now but we weren't yet then. When I cut her off I said I was happy to talk to her but it had to be with the counselor that was working with our family. In that session, she admitted that she only went to counseling to force me to talk to her and when I said that her behavior was abusive she said she would walk out if I used that word again. But it is true. Narcissists are OFTEN abusive.
*ARE I would leave out the word "often." "Are" denotes a pattern, and they *do have that behavioral pattern. The word "often" suggests that other than their normal behavior, they are "often" (fill-in-the-blank). Narcissists typical behavior *is abusive, not normal.
He said he had to walk on eggshells around me, which is also what my narc father said. He accused me of cheating when I know for a fact he was on dating sites. When I ask him what happened in a situation he doesn’t remember, but when I say this is what I saw, he denies it.
This is true, having healthy boundaries is your right.
The narcissist I married told me I shouldn't talk to other men- they will think I am sexually interested in them!!
Long standing grudge is right.
There are many of these guys here on the Internet. Gaslight you once and then you reply to their comment and the gaslight you again and again and again until you finally stop talking to them. I've came across many of those people on TH-cam and Reddit.
My narcissistic mother, would always give me this look when I said anything to her. No response, eye rolling. Turning her mouth to the side.
Mine too, but wanted my undivided attention when she was speaking 🗣️
That "look" was to revile you. Revilers are on the list of those condemned to judgement (in the scripture.)
@@cacatr4495 how about that? I'm an empath. I received that look a lot growing up. Learning about narcissism, I'm just now finding out why. Ty so much 👍🏻
They also try to use people I love to hurt me even more. 😢 My Lord will get vengeace for me and very obviously Justice. I know of 2 of those girls born. Obviously it's been a issue throughout my life here
My NM used every sentence of that second list and then gave me the silent treatment for days. Then she would talk over me, and if that wasn't enough, she started looking at me with disgusts, and like I was some person who was no matter then the dirt on her feet!(
I went Grey Rock until she passed away!
Thank you, Dr. C for doing this video it's so validating! ❤
Truth Dr Carter , following the divorce of my husband of 30 years I have often fantasied about confronting him about his years of infidelity , manipulation , and gaslighting but after listening to you I know better , best just get on with my life , put as much distance between myself and him as I possibly can.
Thank you for your kind and wise words.
I asked him what love meant for him. He kept saying he loves me, but then doesn’t hear me, doesn’t try to meet my needs, isn’t participating in a balanced relationship. He could NOT answer. It was disappointing.
Narcissist don't answer that question because they know they truly don't love anyone they say words like love because they know normal people have actual emotions so words mean a lot to them. Narcissist lack empathy in their brains so they will say anything
"Oh, no! I am NOT about to let you have your independent thoughts. I AM going to be in charge AND ..." LOL🙃
I set boundaries and refused to hear the gaslighting a few weeks ago. 7 year cohabitation relationship and he disappeared . I don't even know what city he's in suddenly. Silent treatment, even yesterday on my birthday. Nothing. For weeks. We own a house together and he just disappeared.
I have a narcissist big brother, I gave apt up ti live with him and take care of him. He got a leg amputated so I had no choice. This has been a nightmare.
I've definitely been through this no matter what it just gets worse. You can't defend yourself with them. It's their way or no way 😂
No contact for life!
I become cynical after being abused by several malignant narcissists 😢
The timing of this video, (or the fact that I’m just now seeing it) is inexplicable.
Based on this “new (to me) level” of narc abuse. I just recently started to realize this type of *ultimate cruelty* actually exists. (Gaslit Gaslighting)
I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw the title to this video. I wasn’t even aware of gaslit/gaslighting. You’d think after a decade I would’ve heard of the chemical burns from this type of hell but nope it’s a relatively new trick & woah does it amp up feelings of bitterness, resentment & hate. I was astonished at the size of his nads when he graduated to this level of cruel & unusual behavior. He knows I could quite literally end life as he knows it. He knows for a fact that I’m the only reason he’s a free man •yet he continues to “play chicken” with me, my life, my health, and my psyche, my sanity.
Just to clarify; I don’t say “I could end his life,” or “I’m the only reason” in a way that makes me feel “good or special” I say it because it’s the truth. After ten years of this nightmare he almost lost his freedom & I was so sure that would scare the evil of out of him (I was dead wrong). I don’t even want to know if there is one or what would be considered “next level.”
I have a good idea what that would be in my situation (“traditional DV” combined with narcissism-so my guess is something related to being ‘unalive.’ In terms of “next level” emotional cruelty inflicted by a “basic narcissist” - I wouldn’t want to survive that but who would/could?
•I don’t actually mean there’s a less catastrophic form of abuse when I say “basic narcissist” I just wanted to lessen their power a twinge even if it was only a petty jab❤️
The wizard of OZ syndrome; it's all about keeping you from seeing the little man behind the curtain.
Precisely.
I feel so very broken and not myself anymore because of this… surrounded by them literally makes for a not wanting to live anymore feeling of loneliness and overwhelming dread to keep going when so much stress and stuck 😣😫😭🙏💜
sending heart . .
Example, if I said a person was nice. My narc mother would say they weren't. If I said they weren't such nice people. She'd say they were. 🤨So any friends I'd try to make. She'd run them away. If they were narcs like her, she'd say they didn't mean something they said or did that was unpleasant towards me, I should give them another chance. Dating was out of the question. She didn't want me to be with anyone romantically. She did so much meddling, I put dating on hold until she died.
Narcissistic mothers will keep their daughters trapped! I wasn't supposed to get married. I wasn't supposed to move away. She needed me to be her best friend, therapist, chef, cleaning lady, and emotional punching bag. The abuse is endless. I felt like a slave.
@@realhealing7802 I didn't say slave when I was in slavery. But looking back. That's exactly what it was. Looking back, conversations we had together were very inappropriate. Besides a chef, my mother expected me to fulfill all those needs of hers, even though she had plenty of friends supposedly & my dad her husband. It's too much.
I used to believe in love and romance... Then I found out that nearly everything is a lie.
They only love what I do for them, and lie when I am not happy with their chump excuses.
He has even treated our daughter like that. Made her feel less than. She always tells me how her father made her feel. Or how he talked to her. that's why she's not talking to him right now she no contact blocked his ass too.