walk from a townhouse, through a shopping mall, to a railway station, hour commute to a central station, then to 6th floor of an office building. All in between spaces are designed "against loitering", unpleasant places to wait for a train.
In most of America it’s even worse! A lot of the time it’s just hop into your car, hour commute through traffic, then to the 6th floor of an office building, located in the middle of an office park with nothing else to do. At least you get to sit down and relax on a train instead of having your nerves up worrying about other cars on the road, and shopping malls could be a fun and satisfying place to be sometimes, especially if your intention is to go hang out and relax with your friends instead of going on shopping sprees.
It is special to be in a city that's built with amenities like convenient parks with pretty features and Civic buildings that have had extra care taken to provide a pleasant looking architecture. In this dry area, water features are always really welcome, they have a magical quality of relaxation
👍I had three 'third places' I could meet friends and co-workers in my small city, and now there's one less. We had a Mana Bar (franchised locations, more gaming than alcohol), Bartari (more alcohol than games) right next door, and a board-game cafe with sandwiches, coffee, etc and was open to children since it didn't serve alcohol. The Mana Bar shut down, and so did the board game place during the pandemic. 😓
Growing up in America as a kid I always felt so trapped and lonely. When my parents were deported (asylum request failed) they moved back to Peru with me. For the first time in my life I felt free and alive. It was so easy to do stuff as a minor like grocery, going to school solo and hanging out with my friends in a public soccer court in a plaza. I feel terrible that kind of life has been stolen from kids and even adults who have to cough up money just to go out. Someday we’ll return back to having our free shared places, I just lament how many people have missed that chance, so much time wasted in places we don’t like being in…
With children specifically there is a lot of fear mongering around abductors and perverts, understandably, but it gets taken to extremes so quickly. The USA become a socially sterile collective and have lost a lot of culture as a result.
Look I’m a big supporter of third spaces. But in my city we have public libraries, parks, beaches, basketball courts, tennis courts, swimming pool, etc. We also have a nice downtown to walk around. And I go to the mall and target with my friends just to hang out. I’m pretty sure basically all American cities have these things? (Except for the beach obviously). I honestly don’t understand this issue too much because I feel there are a lot of spaces to hang out that are completely free.
I agree, and challenge myself and any others who do to start developing strategies and tactics to retake to the commons what has been privatized, then to share those strategies so they can be tested and built upon. We as human beings need to share our humanity, and that only happens on our terms and on our turf... getting rid of gatekeepers is paramount... Any ideas to acieve this are welcome!
there's a store in my town, that's different from a game Cafe. Most of them you have to pay for how long you're there. This place, you can play, for free. But. It is connected to a big shop. There's no alcohol, either. Just that much to me is seen as such a big deal. Like. Just mmthat much seems like such a radical departure from the norm I'm used too.
@@sl-lz3dwI believe humans all around the world are too judgemental about clothing choices, and too predatory/exploitative/entitled towards the human body. This is magnified for women. It's a big reason why I've been avoiding public spaces unless absolutely necessary. The energetic and psychic safety needs to be there, in addition to the bare minimum physical safety that currently exists.
@@sl-lz3dw Been wondering the same, myself. It would take a ground-up movement, ideally leading to a critical mass of people turning their backs on unnecessary materialism (objects no-one needs/status nonsense), currency and work (capitalism), slave-training/current education (school curriculum), and debasing cruelty (meat and dairy industries), in favour of exactly the opposite. A better world is simple to imagine, and would be fairy easy to create if it wasn't for the effectiveness of government brainwashing, and our slavish pursuit of lives of convenience. While I see the world in a way that few others do (objectively, as an outsider) and I have many ideas and philosophies on better communities, I'm saddled with ADHD and autism, which sap motivation, and limit the scale of a social platform. I suspect I'm many years ahead of my time, and that I've got to content myself with being a seed-planter, rather than a revolutionary. Maybe in a future life, I'll see growth. Good luck Brothers and Sisters.
This is why Ive loved skateboarding throughout my youth. It is an anarchist way of creating those thirds spaces. Of reclaiming the husk of a dead city and turning anywhere from a plaza or ledge or sidewalk or steet or skatepark into a free and communal space. The amount of friends I have made and been able to retain through these encounters, and the sense of freedom and comfort I had, even in almost permanent transience, was something so beautiful. And well worth the cost of many injuries lol
Seriously there’s nothing more awsome then finding a group of radical individuals and those who you can truly relate to especially in this era it can be alienating as it is said hard work pays off
Absolutely. Used to be much more a street urchin but now as I’m older I just go to the skatepark more often than not and just skate transition with the homies. Sometimes we even grill and have lil jams for fun. This has done wonders for my heart soul and mind
YOO I was looking for the skate comment! Yes! We once got told to leave the street next to the government building in my city on a SUNDAY because we were being “too loud”…meanwhile there’s like cars on the main road designating the soundscape…we came back to skate the spot a week later ofc ahaha
Remember was a non-place such as a parking lot can become a real place if true people hangout with one another, but then it becomes illegal or need to be paid to hangout in per hour. A non-place becoming a place suddenly became a non-place.
It is an interesting though. Theres a shopping plaza near my house that has a huge parking lot. So big that a section of it usually goes unused. But a group manages to get permission to throw a yearly concert in thay parking lot. Its an odd venue choice, but it does suddnely make it a place
or a parking place to go to public space. How demeaning is it to have to trade money for a parking meter in order to enjoy a public place? It's like nothing is free, not even death. Everything is corporate. People fuss at the younger generations for not being outside anymore, but where do we go? luckily I live in the country and have a yard, but I can't imagine the frustration of living in a city. Pay to park, pay to eat, pay to watch a show, pay to get some water, pay the gas to go home, pay the ticket when you get stopped by the police, pay the property tax for living in your home, pay the taxes for driving on the road......
There's a parking garage for people taking transit in my neighborhood, it's free so the local softball teams hang out there after games, people just drive in to play music, etc. All of that would be cool if they didn't stay there drinking and shooting til past midnight, leaving garbage, making messes, etc. Those people ruin it for the rest.
I was trying to paint someone’s portrait in a casino but I ran into an issue of regulation. The issue was that there was no regulation… They said they had never ran into this issue of someone painting someone’s portrait by a fountain in a casino. They said they could fine me for loitering. But if I wanted to paint someone’s portrait I had to ask the casinos marketing management team. No I was not getting paid for the portrait. I was in no one’s way. The security guard apologized and told me it was cool but still had to ask me to leave.
This is the second time I’m reading this comment, and I find the situation so bizarre. It’s like… “we don’t really know why we want you to leave, but you need to leave anyway.”
@@Andrewism I can update you with what happens when I ask the marketing management if you like! 😊
หลายเดือนก่อน +85
@@Andrewism Feels like society is in a continuous process of dehumanizing spaces and then acts confused, even hostile when it still encounters humanity there.
Kind of like when people have a yard and get upset when groundhogs and chipmunks and raccoons just show up there one day. It's kind of what you do when there's free real estate. People naturally end up where there's space for them.
Yeah not having a "third place" really takes a toll. Its been so many years since the last time I went to somewhere that isn't my work, home or family's house. I used to like going to my local game store to socialize and play games, but today I'm kind os scary to go, I don't know people there and I feel like people will just think I'm invading their space
Your intro example about commuting reminds me of a recent realization I had. I ride the bus to work and for most errands and what I like about it so much is the social aspect. It’s very minimal, but still, I appreciate brushing someone’s arm when I get to my seat, saying hi to the bus driver, helping someone get off at the right stop and the occasional spontaneous conversation. I like watching the city go by, seeing people’s cool outfits, being in touch with the seasons. Driving by contrast feels like being in a bubble. I’ve realized that I’m much less likely to have an opportunity to talk to others if I’m on my phone or have headphones in on the bus. So I’m making a conscious effort to listen to music and scroll sometimes on my commute, but not all the time. I want to look available to others and feel like part of the community of my city.
See, I’m someone who doesn’t need friends but desperately needs community. That sounds crazy but how you’ve described it is the essence of it: that ability to interact and care and be with and listen and build connections… but not necessarily deep connections that hit on very sensitive topics and always be the same person all the time?
My local train station is probably the only non-place I feel very connected to. As someone who doesn't have a license well into their adulthood (public transport here has been decent enough for me not to need one) this train station has seen me through all walks of life from high school, to my first office job, to my commutes to wider areas for hiking, socialising, etc. I can't hang around or lounge by the station but I nevertheless greet it like an old friend every time I have need of it to go somewhere. As an artist, it's now one of the staple locations I paint and it's given me joy to understand and study a location so thoroughly. This video also makes me think about the interplay between location and the state of play. As a child I have been in some uninspired, drab locations that transform into exciting opportunities for joy through play, using tools like chalk, marbles, sticks, and so on. As adults it is socially unacceptable to engage in forms of play that fall outside of your phone or your laptop. (Unless you're at a park, in which case you can engage in sports. And if you're brave.. dancing and singing?) That makes me wonder if that further exacerbates people's isolation from places. You're really limited with how you can interact with your immediate surroundings.
This makes me wanna gather a group of friends and draw on sidewalks with chalk again. Thank you for the idea! I ain't letting no drab social norms stop me :)
Thiiiis! I’m an artist through and through, love making and creating in many mediums. I’m also autistic and love to forage. So many spaces are just not a safe space to simply exist in as a creative person, an autistic person, or both. I also wish we had more transportation as someone who can’t drive due to disability.
I think that one of the reasons graffiti is so heavily hated by the state and capital is that it turns undemocratic non-places into having some semblance of place-ness and bypasses the bureaucratic process. Especially when said graffiti are gorgeous murals (although I may be a little biased in saying that dumb little sharpie tags are some of my favorites)
I hate graffiti too if it's random text on a beautiful architecture. If it's a random abondoned wall somewhere, go ahead. Big pictures on buildings are ok IF it was approved by the community living there.
@@SiimKoger Anything besides someone's house or maybe a red brick and marble library you can't just repaint is fair game to me, but my town's also pretty ugly and getting worse with every new build. Plus our most prolific tagger is "FCK NZS" so it's pretty hard to disagree with the premise.
In my 20's going to the pub to meet new people was the norm, it was a real mix because almost anybody could afford it. Now 1 beer can cost as much as a meal because of stupid high rent mainly through the corporatization of EVERYTHING including our homes, radically effecting public life..Money has made every other value secondary and optional, both by what is acceptable if you have it and what some are willing to do to get it. Its very ugly.
And now every time i’ve been to a bar, it’s always people who arrive together and plan to stay with that group. Never really seems like a place where people want to meet new people, unless they’re looking for a romantic partner
Exactly. And all third spaces are either 1. Sensory hell and/or not accessible, 2. Involve drugs or alcohol (especially queer specific third spaces), or 3. Cost an arm and a leg to attend. And that’s if you can even find the time.
@@msc4rt3r Ya. As a queer autistic person, it’s so hard to find a place to even talk to people and meet up. Romantic or otherwise. It’s either too expensive, too loud or bright, or very click centered.
Two of my favourite coffee shops closed recently. In my city of one million, there are hardly any of them left in which you aren't expected to buy a meal too. Absolute tragedy.
We're in a college town where the largest Starbucks have all closed, but numerous new small local coffee shops are thriving and packed with students. Grateful.
I've been thinking recently about the way public space results in gazes and I think the concept of a non-space is a really useful addition to explaining the paranoid or objectifying ways people interact with others in public that avoids taking 'public' spaces as a flat given, so thank you for highlighting this. Placings also seems really interesting as an active resistance concept. I'll need to look into both
Not to derail but to add, I think this is another part of why being in public can be so hard for autistics and other disabled people likely to have agoraphobia. It’s the additional hyper vigilance required in non spaces, in addition to almost every other social interaction, space, and non space. (And for many, also the home.) Edit: As in, in these non spaces there is FAR MORE judgement and watchful eyes from others.
@@ErutaniaRoseI just feel like the world is so dangerous now and life like this keeps us protected I try to go directly from my car to my home with as little interaction as possible and spend as much time as possible in them
Got yelled at by a police camera tower thing on wheels, in a parking lot. It said we were trespassing despite no other indication that we weren't allowed to be there. We had no place else to go, waiting to pick someone up from the airport and needed to stop so went to a big multi-store shopping center's parking lot. Drove a little too close to that thing, then the bullhorn shouted at us in a robot voice and the lights started whirring.
A few months ago when i was leaving my town's shopping centre (mall) i took a survey. Along with other statements I said that I wished there were more communal areas and non-profit services. The whole building was bought by IKEA the other week, construction begins in october. Profits are always the priority of the land owners, we need ways of subverting their interests.
As an art teacher who has taught in more structured academic settings (akin to a work-place) and community center/club/daycamp settings (which are closer to a third place), it's amazing how different the experience is for both teachers and students. Without the extrinsic pressure of grades, experimentation happens much more freely and often, both in terms of kids' creative production and teachers' willingness to 'play' with the curriculum and present new experiences. One thing I was warned about in a Place-Based Ed course I took: we need to be pretty careful about how we use the words place and space. It's easy to fall into the trap of talking and thinking about 'place' as a culturally meaningful setting built in an empty, unmarked 'space,' but that thiking is colonizing thinking. All settings are places, all place-making happens in a place. The only 'spaces' that exist are ones we deliberately construct in places, such as the spaces of encounter you describe.
I feel like THIS is the thing. THIS is why we are all so alienated, so lonely. We don't have *real* spaces. Just transience, "no loitering", fences around everything, the vague fear that if we hang around anywhere too long without buying something or paying to be there that the police will come and shoo us away. How are we to EVER meet people under that milieu?
the burst of interest in the whole backrooms and liminal spaces stuff makes sense. liminal spaces are transitory and not meant to be lingered in, or they're not meant to be totally vacant. and the world's got bunches of places that are only transitory
Wrote my dissertation on Augé! Specifically on the subversion of non-places by marginal actors (buskers, graffiti artists etc). I always love your work and this brings back memories. Edit to add that british psychogeographers have also wrung meaning out of liminality in a different way.
Is your dissertation accessible to the public?? I would love to read it. Also I have a friend who studies street art in relation to the liberation struggle of Palestinians and I bet she’d dig it.
Busker here. Living in California, I always found it odd that playing guitar on the street would bring on the police within minutes but pitching a tent on the street or crapping on the street was perfectly ok. It never made any sense to me.
I've been having this thought for awhile now. I've been calling them 'real' and 'not real' places in my head, though I've had little else to go off of than my own feeling that supermarkets and airports were 'unreal'. Interesting to learn other people think similarly.
Great video, with truly excellent art! If you're interested in the urbanist history of way too big squares without place for social interaction, I highly recommend looking into fascist architecture. Especially what they did to Rome is a great and clear example how appreciation for history can lead to godawful city design. The grand plan was basically to pick out the most historically important building (for fascist propaganda), bulldoze everything around them to create way too big squares, and bulldoze way too wide straight lines between them to show the glory of the Italian empire/Literally Fascism. Big cathedrals always had a bit of a square around them, but they used to be on the scale of people (bc there was only so much space within city walls). The strategy of placing so much importance on the Buildings and the Shared Cultural History while making people feel insignificant got really big in fascist urbanism! (And then other totalitarian governments started using them too, if you're ever in Berlin you should visit the communist propaganda street, it's hilarious to see how it only looks impressive from certain angles, and the further away from the photogenic angles you walk, the uglier and less detailed the buildings become)
I think that's part of the reason look back on college with such fond memories - nearly every activity you do is communal, there's lots of green space, clubs, etc. Besides the cost and how hard the classes can work you, college is probably closer to how we are supposed to live with each other.
@@donnylavs Exactly this. Part of why it really frustrates me it’s SO HARD for disabled students to get in or afford, as disabled people are often isolated more than able bodied peers through laws, architecture, and much more.
I'm very glad to be home, but one of the weirdest things about coming home is the realization that prison was very likely the most socially rich time/place of my life. I don't think this feeling is uncommon among excons. Solidarité 🇵🇸✊
@@Andrewism sorry I didn't see your reply right away. Sure, anything specific? If not, I'll leave a more detailed explanation later tonight when I can.
@@Andrewism sorry for taking so long, I'll start by going over a typical day. 6am- breakfast in the chow hall. The tables seat 4 so most the time I sit with the same 3 friends of mine. 9am- rec yard opens up, I work out in the morning 6 days a week with my workout crew. Crew consists of 3 or 4 core guys with one or two more depending on the day of the week and what type of exercise we're doing. Like legs or chest or back. Workout crew is different than meal friends. 12pm- lunch with meal friends 1pm- afternoon rec yard. Afternoons I usually stayed in the dorm and did school work, in between semesters, I might play Scrabble with someone, watch TV, read, or walk the track. Saturday's I workout twice a day, but in the afternoon one of my mealtime friends and I did cardio/calisthenics stuff. 4pm- dinner with mealtime friends. 6pm-9pm, usually watched TV, or just hung out with my neighbors/friends. 9pm- last standing count of the day, I usually read for awhile and went to sleep around 11pm. I was locked up for 7 years and I spent about 5 years of it at a medium security prison with dormitories instead of cells. Dorms held 98 guys in 49 bunk beds. Kinda like an army barracks, 4 rows of bunks in one big room, about 3 or 4 feet between bunks. Bathroom up front has 4 urinals, 4 toilets, 5 sinks, and 5 shower heads(group shower style). Also up front was the day room with one big TV, 2 microwaves, hot water pot, and 4 phones. I was almost never alone. There was not enough facilities (phones, toilets, showers, etc) for 98 people and it caused conflict, but we had systems in place to keep things running smoothly, most the time. I probably had 6-8 very close friends, and another 15-20 or so friends/close acquaintances, and more than 100 people who's names I knew, and who knew me, acquaintances I guess. I was never alone, if I wanted to play Scrabble, there was always someone willing to play, if I wanted to play basketball, there was always a few games going, same with soccer, volleyball, or ultimate Frisbee. In the summer, we had a softball league with games almost every evening. Idk, this is already very long, if you want more, let me know, I'm happy to share. Great content man, thanks for sharing it with us. Solidarité ✊
@@bertbaker7067 Sounds like highschool (yeah, I know, by design), but explains both the idea of "peaking in highschool" and excons sometimes preferring prison
I live in a suburb of London. It's not a bad area in many ways, but it doesn't feel like a place to me. It's literally just 3 parallel main roads with perpendicular rows of terraced houses, a few shops, and a station - which is basically a glorified bridge cutting through the middle of town. No gathering places. Nowhere to sit. No landmarks. No views. It's a non-place surrounded by a bunch of other non-places. Even going into the centre of London doesn't really help, because Central London isn't a place either - it's an England theme park with a business district. Everywhere here is designed to make it as easy as possible to go somewhere else. I didn't actually realise how transitory everything felt here until I went to Croydon and suddenly was like "omg, this feels like people actually live here and do things". CROYDON. Of all places.
@@CordeliaWagner1999 Does that matter? Whether or not there are Muslims in the area, that doesn't change the fundamental physical problems of the area - namely that there is literally nowhere to sit, meet, or gather, other than the local Starbucks.
It costs so much more energy to have an encounter in a non-space vs a place of encounter. You're going against the flow of of that place. Everyone "can't stop". They have somewhere to be and you're in the way of that. That is exhausting. It's fine to speak instead of placings, to acknowledge that encounters can happen in these non-places, but it's an incomplete conversation without some way of talking about the inbuilt resistance to placings that you feel in non-places.
Yep and like you said, those kind of places seem to have an air of hostility. I think in the past there was plenty of third places to go where it seemed peoples hostile shells would fall off and they would become a little more warm. Places like the park and the coffee shops. I remember going to cafés and them not requiring you to buy a $4 coffee every time you sit inside. I remember plenty of restaurants doing the same where they would allow you to at least sit in there for a few minutes to an hour to use the Wi-Fi or read. But now, every place you go, they say, are you buying anything and if you say no, they tell you get out immediately… And I've never lived under this much stress where I'm always making sure I have extra money just to be able to go sit in cafés as a third place but it's not even properly utilized as a third place because I'm not able to really enjoy the space or socialize with people how we used to because like you said the hostility. This phenomena of non-places as you call it is actually painful i think.
Yet another super valuable idea, and approach to making sense of how things are wrong. With what we've already learned about how we make sense of the "places" people find themselves in, "non-places" in modern cities and towns really capture exactly what "When things go wrong" looks like. Although, obviously, the structure of places in urban contexts certainly weren't accidents. Great video, I especially like how this one was broken up, and the balance between scope and specificity here. This was very accessible.
Here's an idea I had. Public cooling stations and water fountains will become essential for urban survival in the future. So why not make them into a nice little water garden spot? At the center have an atmospheric water generator that pours a fountain of water out of a nearby spout. Water not collected by passing citizens is used to grow water plants such as cattails, water lilies, and rushes in peaceful gardens. The water generators would have seats around them and would blast cool, dry air onto sweaty citizens, giving them a break from the sweltering days. The canopy of solar cells could provide shade too. If any solarpunk artists or engineers wanna figure out a workable design for this with me let's get a thinktank going!
As a writer, I appreciate this essay format but I have to admit the way you read it aloud breathes a whole separate dimension into it that I don't think I would have gotten just from reading it. I really think you've got the pacing that compliments your unique voice and accent down to a science. Peak ideas, delivered beautifully! Can't wait to see more!
Great video that put terms to a lot of anxieties that myself and a lot of my friends tend to struggle with. It feels like everywhere we go is either a living place or a workplace and there's not much in-between, especially if we don't have money to burn.
I’m glad I had a makerspace close by an old address of mine. A collective month went into following a pattern and sewing the jumpsuit uniform from Star Trek Enterprise, and it was so refreshing to hang out with like minded people, for only $10 a year with a college student discount. I think it was the first time I’ve ever really been to and hung out in a 3rd space
One really interesting thing ive experience is that on the Amtrak (long several hour train trip), I used to use it to travel between my parents, is that people on it are more willing to talk to you and are slightly nicer compared to airports. I think it has something to do with this shared journey for longer times and the ability to walk around and meet new people. I don't know if anyone else has experience this though.
More public spaces! In my area we got a skatepark, and even I have gotten back into it. I noticed it fosters community and wellbeing for the teenagers, it replaced an old batting cages setup. Everything about this new space feels more inviting. The firm who designed it and the guys who built it did a great job. But it's still elitist and not a general public space.
I was really feeling this recently, especially after moving back to the city. Being in a car can in and of itself turn into a new hierarchy. There are large machines to avoid, small ones, ones that are shamed (think nissan altima), and so on. The high way is a place of encounter; but though the medium of the machine you are driving. It seems like it makes people behave far worse than they would on foot or in person. Cutting people off, risking lives, intimidating people out of your lane. None of this is allowed in actual places of encounter, but it does reflect; that even in the endless highways we are trying to be individuals, and stand out. Almost an outburst to force an interaction depending on your driving culture. Well done sir!
Idk St. Andrew, if take back spaces from corporations thatd be less private property. If we start limiting the right to profit for corporations how will the free market survive? Also where will I pass out in silence when im hung over without any emptey Arby's lobbys?!?!?
Went to visit an island vacation spot for our summer holiday, and the difference was night and day. Plenty of outdoor seating for everybody to use, it was a destination wedding so we ended up seeing family members every day when we went down to the main strip. The main strip was completely pedestrian, and the side streets mostly had golf carts. A few cars, but older and smaller ones (bc it’s an island!). My hotel was less than one block from the main strip, and all the shops and fun were within less than 5 minutes’ walk time. Now, was this because everybody was there to party and have fun? Yes; but there was also a little school, a library/sheriff’s office, and a few local buildings. Most people worked several jobs, we saw the same people working catering jobs and cashier jobs and waiter jobs, so I’m guessing a small dedicated customer service pool that contracts out to the local businesses. But this community is not unique-if it had been my local high school, the local riverfront, and the local businesses, the pattern would have been similar. I grew up living in apartments, it would have been no different for me to grow up and walk two minutes to the riverfront, except that for some reason we were on an access road miles from the riverfront. Imagine how much money it cost to connect our sewer to the riverfront way up in the hills. But that’s where we grew up. I can see a future where walkable, local, destination-led infrastructure is king. It won’t cost as much as infrastructure does now, but when it does have costs, it won’t just be going to the high level developers. If I have old family members who can’t drive anymore, I want them to not HAVE to drive anywhere to go to the store, not HAVE to be stuck on suburb island, but be able to sit outside and see family members as they walk down Main Street.
Shoutout mixed use housing :) been living on a tiny lil urban boat for a year now and it’s a game changer sharing a “hall” with various workers, residents, and vacationers. Of course the classism of Seattle boaters will always be there, but it just makes my day and honestly feels safer interacting with the workers n buzz of the marina :) also mobile home communities goated
How much of the self is compromised to accrue capital gains, rather than enjoy coexistence on a beautiful planet? Those non places serve the capitalist mindset and the frenetic pace at which we exist at the behest of dollared dreamscapes and money interests just feel so… empty. Great video as always.
Wonderful essay. Growing up, I always found myself curious about things that were decidely man-made and engineered, yet not necessarily in the humanity itself. Thinks like transportation infrastructure, city planning, architecture and vehicles/vessels I alawys found interesting. This was mostly taken from a perspective of learning how they function, and understanding their place in the world. Over the past half a decade or so, I've become more tuned into these concepts and features of modern environments and gotten more critical of them. Not always negatively so, but definitely questioning their place, and whethere they have been over-utilized (to be clear, they absolutely have). I do photography as a hobby, and I photograph a lot in urban areas or even industrial parks and near seaports, that sort of thing. What's really odd is even if you appreciate these things and are curious about them, you can get questioned for it and told to leave. They are literally *not* designed for humans, to the point that simply standing too close to them makes people believe you're a terrorist or some other criminal. I mean, it's really telling that it's so unusual to move around the world and have a purpose outside of shopping or working, that people not only question your intentions, but they actually find it suspicous enough to call the police on you, or threaten to issue a trespass order.
I use places like train stations and bus stops as third spaces, I go there earlier then I need to I socialise there, it's free and relatively safe once you get to know the people. There are the the same people there often at the same times, while the people I know from them aren't necessarily my closest friends we get along and share a good amount of time and conversation
I spent a lot of time during covid lockdowns wandering about non-places near me. I refused to stay in the house. Walked around business parks, industrial estates, public spaces and office complexes. Many times I was asked by security who I was and what I was doing. I would answer “I’m just looking round” or “what’s it to you?” or “who are you to demand information from me?”. Their job was literally to exclude me from a place they had no legal right to exclude me from. I’m from Scotland and there is no trespass law in Scotland. All land is public land in Scotland. “Private” land ownership here is just custodianship until someone else takes it from you.
To prevent anyone sleeping on park benches they have welded on metal arm bars every three feet, a perfect representation of super modernity’s disdain for the humans that created it
Homeless shelters and social hrlp Programm exist. These men don't want help. Women get homeless to, but go to the shglzers, get help and work themselves back into a normal lufe. The men just drink...
I see traffic-calming devices where they close a three-way intersection and replace it with chess-board tables. And they point to these "parklets" as non-commercial, public social spaces. But you cannot escape the assumption that these tables are explicitly for use of customers of nearby restaurants. Especially when the "district improvement workers" clear-out the homeless each morning.
Bububut....the NIMBYS need to feel good about themselves...if they JUST closed the street and cleared out the undesirables they'd have to see themselves as the bad guys, and they'd stop...
The parklets are not owned by the restaraunts the same way they own their buildings. As long as you look and act within the range of what's socially acceptable no one will likely bother you. You are as much a part of "the public " as anyone else.
I walk through a small shopping Mallorca from the train Station to an internship. Security is patrolling. I got a call, I stoppen to Pick out my Phone to answer, I talked a while. Security came and told me it's not allowed to just stand there, either I sit in the food area or I have to leave. I walken to a small Cafe in a middle Isle. The waiter said I can't sit there when I don't order something. That experience was first annoying, but lookkng back very scary.
The hell is a ‘bridleway’? Also we have like sidewalks and stuff. It’s just that they’re not like super well-maintained and they’re really only in like places where there’s homes or businesses nearby, most of it is road
The internet has become our third place. Whether that's good or bad, is up to the individual person. I think it's a good thing but we still need physical third places too. It's not healthy for your body or mind to be on the internet all the time- i'm just as guilty of it as everyone else, because my interests and hobbies are easily found here. I rarely, if ever randomly come across them in the physical world.
Love this video so much. To us, it's clear that all of us here can all be part of a global decentralized crowdfunding network, to help these sorts of spaces be tangibly established and flourish and evolve all around the world. With open source template options, iterable and customizable for each local scene and bioregion. Nonprofit community land trusts seem like a fantastic way to protect spaces from rent and resale in their bylaws, and ensure commons access and indigenous coordination and eco-regenerative practices. Our project here on Kalapuya Land, Eugene Oregon USA is developing a free 24-hour flex community postcapitalist third space and fab(rication) lab café. Every town and city could have walkable free wonderful spaces to connect and co-create in!
Absolutely love this! (as someone who prizes relationality and an embodied existence above all else). But where does cyberspace fit in to all this? Is it even a "space"? If so, what qualifies it as a space?
Just my two cents, but I think that online spaces, even though "places" like reddit, discord, youtube can hit a lot or even all the criteria of a third space, don't quite get the job done like a in-person third space would. Because it's not just about the social aspect of it but it's also the tangential benefits that come along with the spaces. Stuff like being able to bike/walk to a third space encourages a healthier community. Knowing the people that you meet there are actually locals not only expands your social network but also makes it easy to lean on each other for things. A ride to the airport, borrowing a tool, checking in on pets. All things that promote a more tightly knit community that you just can't get through an online third space. And another aspect is that in person spaces are able to self regulate much more efficiently. I'm sure we've all seen how quickly communities on facebook, reddit, youtube can become overrun by bad actors pushing an agenda or one moderator who wields their privileges unfairly. That sort of a situation would be SO much harder in person
I'd call it a space, but not necessarily a "third place". The few third places we do have in my neck of the woods aren't friendly to my disabilities, and the internet has been a stand-in that allows me to tick a lot of boxes that simply aren't possible anywhere else right now. It's a "space" where I have many presences, but it's not a place any part of me can actually go. VR can feel damn close to it, though.
I think it's a confusion coming from the word "space" describing two different things. I don't think it has anything to do with the spaces in the video
I always felt this lack and couldn't term it when i moved to the city and weirdly my daily commute became very dear and in a way for a broke student. Bus stops were sometimes where i stopped and sat down and cried... And just spend time as life was just overwhelming and speeding off
Thank you for posting this wonderful video on a very interesting and much under discussed topic. Also, I hugely enjoyed the paintings that you included to illustrate your points, and thank you for crediting the artists.
Have you considered a video that would demonstrate how an economy based on consumption (both sides of capital flow) could function? I know it’s not in your typical realm, but we should explore how an economy could function where everyone had at least basic permanent shelter, 1 meal a day, medical services to stabilize a person’s health, & maybe a new outfit quarterly, without the requirement to work. The extension of UBI that no one is talking about yet. A survival guarantee.
I’m genuinely curious because UBI is a concept I haven’t come to fully understand-if no one works, how is the UBI generated, and how are resources like healthcare and new outfits available?
@@msc4rt3r that’s what needs to be explored more! As we get more mechanized & automated, things will be produced with less labor at any level. GDP will still be produced which can be directed to spending on housing, food & medical services, which directly feed the capitalism machine with consumption.
I've touched on a similar concept in my library economy video, where I spoke of the "irreducible minimum." I want to do more economy-focused videos, but I don't feel well-read enough in that field to give it the sort of depth I'd like.
@@Andrewism you bring a perspective that’s unique to TH-cam. Be okay with sharing what you know & ask us for feedback on how it came across & where else we’d like you to take us. We don’t you to be a PhD to inform us about concepts & ideas most won’t tackle!
@@Andrewism your content is well thought out and thought provoking. It doesn't need to be expert level on absolutely every video...imo. i hope you won't let anything stop you from exploring a topic of interest.
I know far too much about the etymology of place to _really_ pick up what you're laying down here, but I encourage you and your mind to keep giving your love of life and others as much freedom and enlightenment as possible. Peace and love to all.
Be ready to answer questions and try to orient yourselves around goals that can build in momentum. Have a focus and a purpose. Start from an existing affinity, hence the name. Start small, don't bite off more than you can chew initially. Build rapport and trust. Don't become insular. Try to build bridges with other groups and orgs
@@Andrewism THANKS SO MUCH, ANDY, IF YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE MY MONTH, what resources or texts would you recommend for a starting group? There probably will be some communists/other non-ansrchists, so I'm not sure what's to tackle
@@AndrewismThank you for this advice, and @spartan2867 for the question! I’ve started a group that makes and distributes zines to change the zeitgeist, and your thoughts give me more focus for how to proceed. We’re stepping into a new phase of purpose and outreach, and I want us to keep it really communal and personal while still achieving goals as big as we desire.
I really like At The Cafe by Errico Malatesta, it's short, sweet, and easily digestible. But I need to dig deep and put together a proper reading list at some point
I love the idea of third spaces designed for encounters, but how do you guard against individuals/groups from monopolizing the space and keeping them welcoming to everyone? It almost requires some kind of enforcement, but that would defeat the purpose of the space if there are rules of appropriate use.
Love your work, I tried emailing you a bunch of unique ideas and solutions, aligned to anarchism, it's barely ever talked about. Much love, from a fellow content creator.
It’s called liminal spaces, no “non-places”. It’s basically a place that transitions from point A to B. Like a hallway, a staircase, a bridge, an airport, etc.
We are all de-worlded avatars plugged into this space, locality doesn’t matter anymore. All that matters is your avatar, encouraged by a feedback loop between the self and the screen. That what used to be the self and the other, and the relationship between them.
Great vid, as usual. Obsessed with the idea of reclaiming these non-places! I always talk about how much I love my tram line, despite the fact I've had some really harrowing experiences on it, and it is because of the potential for community that is there. I have had the experience at least twice where someone is being harrassed, someone intervenes and this prompts others to intervene, then once the harrasser has been ejected or calmed or whatever the case may be there is a genuine sense that we are here in this space together and not just separate individuals or small groups. I've often thought about how could we make that sense of community the defaul on public transport, not just because it's pleasant but also because it could actually prevent instances of public harrassment.
Do non-places ask us to be non-people? Does this work hand in hand with our devices to draw us deeper into our isolated media bubbles as we strive to be anonymous in anonymous-places? Becoming less human, less social, less together - afraid of each other, afraid of awkwardness…
Yeah early for once! we learned the word prefiguration this month after operating within the concept for years without knowledge. After working for our cities transit authority, I think it just radicalized us more to this concept tbh the way they continually pushed us to be aggressive to any sort or loitering sicked our soul and we had to quit
Wow this came out of the blue in my recommendations. Love it, really deep. I find that as long as I can imagine, these non-spaces don't bother me. You make of them what you will, and hopefully it's positive.
Did you read "The Revolution of Fungal Life"? That essay about mushrooms talks extensively about capitalist non-spaces/non-places from a green anarchist/situationist perspective
"I call the places where this process occurs, capitalist non-spaces. They’re the dark corners, peripheries, less-used and off-limits areas that are built into the city planning. Median strips between opposing lanes of traffic (where I’ve seen my biggest Boletus to date), abandoned fenced- off lots, and buffer zones between train tracks and residential property are only a few examples. These are places where, for some reason or another, nothing is supposed to happen. They’re the un-trafficked temporary refuges for life-often mistakenly referred to as dead zones-that exist almost everywhere I look. The spiders in your house or the raccoon who eats your trash, the capitalist non-space is where they live. It’s the psychic manifestation of the notion that everyone must have a socially legitimate reason in order to be somewhere or else face judgment. If I were somehow able to track the physical pathways that the herd uses daily and subsequently highlight them on a map, the negative space would likely represent non-spaces. It’s where the herd seldom ventures, because built into its design is some utilitarian or aesthetic function that either purposefully or inadvertently, through law or through social norms, restricts or deters exploration. Nonspaces attract life because nature abhors a vacuum ... " "Revolution of Fungal Life" by anonymous
I don't know why "situationist" is presented as an alternate description here, because the author clearly denounces the Situationists for their unitary urbanism. >This is a life- affirming pyschogeography, which, along with my developing critiques of mass society, industry, leftism, and technology. have now fully discredited any lingering sympathies for the Situationists’ unitary urbanism. I know see unitary urbanism as a way for council communism to automate production in order to turn the whole of civilization into a series of city-wide Disneylands.
@boletus8290 I'm unsure if the author of that essay cares to do analyses beyond some vague opposition to civilization. They should have added that unitary urbanism (UU) is a project created and managed by the political artistic avant-garde (vanguard). In the conception of unitary urban planning, the utopia of the project already announces the avant-garde vice hidden there, and which will modify its application: "Unitary urbanism is only realizable using situationist means." (First Proclamation of the Dutch Section of the SI). Because it is up to the political artistic vanguard to develop UU, not only in its preparatory sketches but in its later applications to the future Society. The main idea of UU is that social behavior is linked to the environment and the setting, and that the latter must be modified in a passionate sense, so as to intervene directly on the affectivity of individuals: "The genuinely experimental direction of Situationist activity is the establishment of a temporary field of activity on the basis of (more or less clearly recognised) desires, which is conducive [6] to these desires. This alone can lead to the clarification of primitive desires, and to the confused outbreak of new desires whose material root will be precisely the new reality established by Situationist constructions." (Preliminary Problems in the Construction of a Situation). In this situationist reorganization of the environment, certainly projected in a utopian perspective, it is ultimately a question of "deliberately" "constructing" a social situation. This voluntarist aspect of the theory of UU is already implanted in the first SI manifesto, Report on the Construction of Situations by Debord: "Spatial development must take into account the emotional effects that the experimental city is intended to produce." ; [...] "We need to construct new ambiences that will be both the products and the instruments of new forms of behavior." ; [...] "We must develop a systematic intervention based on the complex factors of two components in perpetual interaction: the material environment of life and the behaviors which that environment gives rise to and which radically transform it." Social behavior is not yet seen as the product of a social relationship. In May 68, it would be the social movement that would create the situation, and not the vanguard. "Our concept of a “constructed situation” is not limited to the combined use of artistic means united in an ambience, (however great the spatio-temporal extent or power of that ambience might be). A situation is at the same time a unity of behaviour in time. It is formed [3] out of actions contained within a transitory setting [4]. These actions are the product of a setting and of themselves. [In turn] they generate other settings [5] and other actions. How can we direct these forces?" The Situationists are closely interested in modern techniques of social conditioning. They read Serge Tchakhotine's The R of the Masses: The Psychology of Totalitarian Political Propaganda, "about the techniques of public influence [used on collectives] by both revolutionaries and fascists between the two world wars," and consider the techniques of collective persuasion as examples of the repressive use of constructed ambience. For them, free art, in the future, is an art "that would master and use all the new conditioning techniques." (On Our Means and Our Perspectives - Constant) The link they perceive between a repressive and utopian use of these techniques is competitive: "it should be understood that we will [actively] join the race between free artists and the police to test and to improve the use of the new techniques of conditioning." If the Situationists conceive that given the 50/50 proposition, their experiments can, in the event of failure, result in a renewal of capitalist social conditioning; then maybe the utopian projections of an UU, conceived from a vanguard point of view, aren't so liberating as they think it is. In fact, they seem incapable of offering an answer of how it could outline new forms of social conditioning adapted, this time, to the "future non-capitalist Society." This concern to appropriate the technical means of the time is constant among the Situationists. But if it is a question of acquiring the modern techniques in progress, it is not yet a question for them of questioning the very existence of these capitalist instruments. Here too, the criticism implicitly presents its conception of the future Society: "we speak of free artists, no artistic freedom is possible until we seize the means accumulated by the XXth century - which we see as the real means of artistic production. Those deprived of [such means] are doomed not to be artists for these times" (The Struggle for Control of the New Techniques of Conditioning) Without seeing that these means are nothing other than those produced by capitalism within the framework of its division of labor, for a social purpose determined by it. This vanguard conception of UU (terrain of experience for the social space of the cities of the future), perceptible from the constitution of the SI, is systematized by Constant, with the implicit specialization and authoritarianism that it entails. UU foresees the free intervention of people on their own environment as a purpose, but for the Situationists, described as "explorers specializing in play and recreation," it has already been decided that UU was "opposed to the fixation of people at certain points of a city"; or "opposed to the temporal fixation of cities" (Unitary Urbanism at the End of the 1950s). In the future Society, the vanguard unilaterally reserves the application of its project: "The ambiances will be regularly and consciously changed, with the aid of every technical means, by teams of specialized creators who, hence, will be professional situationists." (Another city for another life , Constant). Another reason why insurrectionary anarchists of today find it hard to tolerate the original Situationists, let alone the pro and post-Situs.
@@Grundrisse I just kinda labeled it as that, mostly because the author writes a bit about how the natural world is becoming increasingly spectacularized & commodified, plus their talk about urban mushroom hunting as being a kind of derive for them. And they mentioned at the beginning that they were drawn to some Situationist ideas. Also, and I could be wrong but, the name of the article seems to be a play on "The Revolution of Everyday Life"
This is super interesting!! I recently wrote a whole paper about public spaces and I explored my own ideas about non-spaces and their potential effects on us psychologically so seeing this pop up is very cool and resonate
Was hoping you would address the original coinage and conception of liminal spaces on some level. So much of our modern space is composed of places we pass through but don’t occupy. 👍
I was in Japan recently and a lot of social behaviour is focused on not being a nuisance to other people, because people live in such close quarters. The result is that people on the train together all "disappear" into their phones - no one talks, not even to say excuse me. I think a lot of social settings have been cannibalised by the internet. People just don't make small talk anymore, even when they could. I don't even have an office to socialise in, since I work remotely. Reaching out to people feels more difficult than ever.
I don’t really have a third space where I know people. I have a clay place I use the studio at, but that costs a lot to use just for 3 months and I don’t always wanna make stuff out of clay (I like many mediums). I also don’t even have a second space right now because my schooling got derailed by major social issues that were literally due to a lack of communication. I just have the home and some shopping. I want more. And I want it to not be a sensory nightmare.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness and let the winds of the heavens dance between you. Love one another but make not a bond of love: let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls. - Khalil Gibran
The death of the town square. It’s transformation from a peoples social area, a space for contemplation to a commercial capitalist space, it’s architectural beauty lost, replaced by aluminium and glass, Now a place reduced to greed and consumerism. The pubs, bars and places for conversation, a place of belonging for locals, also lost to the corporate juggernaut. Towns and city’s are devoid of community solidarity, they have become sterile, soulless places. How can that be good for mental nourishment, it can only foster disconnect and a sense of loneliness, so many people around you, but no sense of connection, just isolation. Artists, philosophers, creatives, have lost the venues that fed their creativity, where are they now ? I hope there is a pause, that people realise the trap that the elites have so cunningly devised, to remove our individualism and suppress our escape from their conformity. I hope we can free ourselves and once again live creatively, I can only dream!
I love how, if you squint, and not to hard, the kids that congregate to skate in transit spaces after hours are potentially commiting the radical act of converting a non-space into a third place. All those skater kids where potential activist, trust me those no-skating signs where never about safety!
walk from a townhouse, through a shopping mall, to a railway station, hour commute to a central station, then to 6th floor of an office building. All in between spaces are designed "against loitering", unpleasant places to wait for a train.
In most of America it’s even worse! A lot of the time it’s just hop into your car, hour commute through traffic, then to the 6th floor of an office building, located in the middle of an office park with nothing else to do. At least you get to sit down and relax on a train instead of having your nerves up worrying about other cars on the road, and shopping malls could be a fun and satisfying place to be sometimes, especially if your intention is to go hang out and relax with your friends instead of going on shopping sprees.
feels like a big prison
It is special to be in a city that's built with amenities like convenient parks with pretty features and Civic buildings that have had extra care taken to provide a pleasant looking architecture. In this dry area, water features are always really welcome, they have a magical quality of relaxation
👍I had three 'third places' I could meet friends and co-workers in my small city, and now there's one less. We had a Mana Bar (franchised locations, more gaming than alcohol), Bartari (more alcohol than games) right next door, and a board-game cafe with sandwiches, coffee, etc and was open to children since it didn't serve alcohol. The Mana Bar shut down, and so did the board game place during the pandemic. 😓
Growing up in America as a kid I always felt so trapped and lonely. When my parents were deported (asylum request failed) they moved back to Peru with me. For the first time in my life I felt free and alive. It was so easy to do stuff as a minor like grocery, going to school solo and hanging out with my friends in a public soccer court in a plaza. I feel terrible that kind of life has been stolen from kids and even adults who have to cough up money just to go out.
Someday we’ll return back to having our free shared places, I just lament how many people have missed that chance, so much time wasted in places we don’t like being in…
Exactly, we have no free third spaces most of the time, or if we do, not the time to use it.
With children specifically there is a lot of fear mongering around abductors and perverts, understandably, but it gets taken to extremes so quickly. The USA become a socially sterile collective and have lost a lot of culture as a result.
Crazy to even associate the word free with the concept of third places... They must be free and non-commercial by definition.
Look I’m a big supporter of third spaces. But in my city we have public libraries, parks, beaches, basketball courts, tennis courts, swimming pool, etc. We also have a nice downtown to walk around. And I go to the mall and target with my friends just to hang out. I’m pretty sure basically all American cities have these things? (Except for the beach obviously). I honestly don’t understand this issue too much because I feel there are a lot of spaces to hang out that are completely free.
@@yaush_ your anecdotal experience doesn't represent the vast majority of American suburbs that only feature single family homes and roads
Yup. You're allowed to go to work and go shopping. You're not allowed to stop and hang out for free. Make public space public!
I agree, and challenge myself and any others who do to start developing strategies and tactics to retake to the commons what has been privatized, then to share those strategies so they can be tested and built upon. We as human beings need to share our humanity, and that only happens on our terms and on our turf... getting rid of gatekeepers is paramount... Any ideas to acieve this are welcome!
there's a store in my town, that's different from a game Cafe.
Most of them you have to pay for how long you're there.
This place, you can play, for free. But. It is connected to a big shop.
There's no alcohol, either.
Just that much to me is seen as such a big deal. Like. Just mmthat much seems like such a radical departure from the norm I'm used too.
@@sl-lz3dwI believe humans all around the world are too judgemental about clothing choices, and too predatory/exploitative/entitled towards the human body. This is magnified for women. It's a big reason why I've been avoiding public spaces unless absolutely necessary. The energetic and psychic safety needs to be there, in addition to the bare minimum physical safety that currently exists.
@@sl-lz3dw Been wondering the same, myself.
It would take a ground-up movement, ideally leading to a critical mass of people turning their backs on unnecessary materialism (objects no-one needs/status nonsense), currency and work (capitalism), slave-training/current education (school curriculum), and debasing cruelty (meat and dairy industries), in favour of exactly the opposite.
A better world is simple to imagine, and would be fairy easy to create if it wasn't for the effectiveness of government brainwashing, and our slavish pursuit of lives of convenience.
While I see the world in a way that few others do (objectively, as an outsider) and I have many ideas and philosophies on better communities, I'm saddled with ADHD and autism, which sap motivation, and limit the scale of a social platform.
I suspect I'm many years ahead of my time, and that I've got to content myself with being a seed-planter, rather than a revolutionary.
Maybe in a future life, I'll see growth.
Good luck Brothers and Sisters.
Libraries still exist, fortunately.
This is why Ive loved skateboarding throughout my youth. It is an anarchist way of creating those thirds spaces. Of reclaiming the husk of a dead city and turning anywhere from a plaza or ledge or sidewalk or steet or skatepark into a free and communal space. The amount of friends I have made and been able to retain through these encounters, and the sense of freedom and comfort I had, even in almost permanent transience, was something so beautiful. And well worth the cost of many injuries lol
Seriously there’s nothing more awsome then finding a group of radical individuals and those who you can truly relate to especially in this era it can be alienating as it is said hard work pays off
Absolutely. Used to be much more a street urchin but now as I’m older I just go to the skatepark more often than not and just skate transition with the homies. Sometimes we even grill and have lil jams for fun. This has done wonders for my heart soul and mind
👍Your comment reminds me of all the times we got into trouble skating in places other people didn't like.
YOO I was looking for the skate comment! Yes! We once got told to leave the street next to the government building in my city on a SUNDAY because we were being “too loud”…meanwhile there’s like cars on the main road designating the soundscape…we came back to skate the spot a week later ofc ahaha
Remember was a non-place such as a parking lot can become a real place if true people hangout with one another, but then it becomes illegal or need to be paid to hangout in per hour. A non-place becoming a place suddenly became a non-place.
It is an interesting though. Theres a shopping plaza near my house that has a huge parking lot. So big that a section of it usually goes unused. But a group manages to get permission to throw a yearly concert in thay parking lot. Its an odd venue choice, but it does suddnely make it a place
or a parking place to go to public space. How demeaning is it to have to trade money for a parking meter in order to enjoy a public place? It's like nothing is free, not even death. Everything is corporate. People fuss at the younger generations for not being outside anymore, but where do we go? luckily I live in the country and have a yard, but I can't imagine the frustration of living in a city. Pay to park, pay to eat, pay to watch a show, pay to get some water, pay the gas to go home, pay the ticket when you get stopped by the police, pay the property tax for living in your home, pay the taxes for driving on the road......
There's a parking garage for people taking transit in my neighborhood, it's free so the local softball teams hang out there after games, people just drive in to play music, etc. All of that would be cool if they didn't stay there drinking and shooting til past midnight, leaving garbage, making messes, etc. Those people ruin it for the rest.
I was trying to paint someone’s portrait in a casino but I ran into an issue of regulation. The issue was that there was no regulation… They said they had never ran into this issue of someone painting someone’s portrait by a fountain in a casino. They said they could fine me for loitering. But if I wanted to paint someone’s portrait I had to ask the casinos marketing management team.
No I was not getting paid for the portrait. I was in no one’s way. The security guard apologized and told me it was cool but still had to ask me to leave.
This is the second time I’m reading this comment, and I find the situation so bizarre. It’s like… “we don’t really know why we want you to leave, but you need to leave anyway.”
what a bizzare and unfortunate reflection of our reality
@@Andrewism I can update you with what happens when I ask the marketing management if you like! 😊
@@Andrewism Feels like society is in a continuous process of dehumanizing spaces and then acts confused, even hostile when it still encounters humanity there.
Kind of like when people have a yard and get upset when groundhogs and chipmunks and raccoons just show up there one day. It's kind of what you do when there's free real estate. People naturally end up where there's space for them.
Yeah not having a "third place" really takes a toll. Its been so many years since the last time I went to somewhere that isn't my work, home or family's house. I used to like going to my local game store to socialize and play games, but today I'm kind os scary to go, I don't know people there and I feel like people will just think I'm invading their space
Yeah, it's so hard to take the first space to going and staying somewhere. Most times I find myself so scared of people, I don't want to go outside.
You should check out your local library, they might be running some clubs or programs that might interest you
The local game store isn't "their place", it's a space to play
People in clubs, gyms, etc, generally want more people to join so they have more people to do whatever their hobby is, with.
Don't delay. My local game store closed down in 2018. Join in while it's still there.
The worst part of watching a brand new Andrewism video is the wait until the next one
😇aww
That’s so true
The tragedy we face
It is certainly a tragedy for the commons
Your intro example about commuting reminds me of a recent realization I had. I ride the bus to work and for most errands and what I like about it so much is the social aspect. It’s very minimal, but still, I appreciate brushing someone’s arm when I get to my seat, saying hi to the bus driver, helping someone get off at the right stop and the occasional spontaneous conversation. I like watching the city go by, seeing people’s cool outfits, being in touch with the seasons. Driving by contrast feels like being in a bubble.
I’ve realized that I’m much less likely to have an opportunity to talk to others if I’m on my phone or have headphones in on the bus. So I’m making a conscious effort to listen to music and scroll sometimes on my commute, but not all the time. I want to look available to others and feel like part of the community of my city.
Wow I really find myself in what you're describing. Makes me feel a little less alien
See, I’m someone who doesn’t need friends but desperately needs community. That sounds crazy but how you’ve described it is the essence of it: that ability to interact and care and be with and listen and build connections… but not necessarily deep connections that hit on very sensitive topics and always be the same person all the time?
literally what i’ve been trying to do! take in my city rather than blocking it out with the same music i can listen to when im alone
My local train station is probably the only non-place I feel very connected to. As someone who doesn't have a license well into their adulthood (public transport here has been decent enough for me not to need one) this train station has seen me through all walks of life from high school, to my first office job, to my commutes to wider areas for hiking, socialising, etc. I can't hang around or lounge by the station but I nevertheless greet it like an old friend every time I have need of it to go somewhere. As an artist, it's now one of the staple locations I paint and it's given me joy to understand and study a location so thoroughly.
This video also makes me think about the interplay between location and the state of play. As a child I have been in some uninspired, drab locations that transform into exciting opportunities for joy through play, using tools like chalk, marbles, sticks, and so on. As adults it is socially unacceptable to engage in forms of play that fall outside of your phone or your laptop. (Unless you're at a park, in which case you can engage in sports. And if you're brave.. dancing and singing?) That makes me wonder if that further exacerbates people's isolation from places. You're really limited with how you can interact with your immediate surroundings.
Glad this video could be food for thought
This makes me wanna gather a group of friends and draw on sidewalks with chalk again. Thank you for the idea! I ain't letting no drab social norms stop me :)
Thiiiis! I’m an artist through and through, love making and creating in many mediums. I’m also autistic and love to forage. So many spaces are just not a safe space to simply exist in as a creative person, an autistic person, or both.
I also wish we had more transportation as someone who can’t drive due to disability.
I think that one of the reasons graffiti is so heavily hated by the state and capital is that it turns undemocratic non-places into having some semblance of place-ness and bypasses the bureaucratic process. Especially when said graffiti are gorgeous murals (although I may be a little biased in saying that dumb little sharpie tags are some of my favorites)
It used to be a common joke that a child's imagination was a threat to the government. Unfortunately like a lot of satire it has become dread reality
My favorite are stickers.
@@gee8419 ah true stickers are great, kinda forgot they still counted, so used to dive bar bathrooms covered floor to ceiling XD
I hate graffiti too if it's random text on a beautiful architecture. If it's a random abondoned wall somewhere, go ahead. Big pictures on buildings are ok IF it was approved by the community living there.
@@SiimKoger Anything besides someone's house or maybe a red brick and marble library you can't just repaint is fair game to me, but my town's also pretty ugly and getting worse with every new build. Plus our most prolific tagger is "FCK NZS" so it's pretty hard to disagree with the premise.
In my 20's going to the pub to meet new people was the norm, it was a real mix because almost anybody could afford it. Now 1 beer can cost as much as a meal because of stupid high rent mainly through the corporatization of EVERYTHING including our homes, radically effecting public life..Money has made every other value secondary and optional, both by what is acceptable if you have it and what some are willing to do to get it. Its very ugly.
And now every time i’ve been to a bar, it’s always people who arrive together and plan to stay with that group. Never really seems like a place where people want to meet new people, unless they’re looking for a romantic partner
@@msc4rt3r Yeah. My gf and her mother (of course) don't get it.
Exactly. And all third spaces are either 1. Sensory hell and/or not accessible, 2. Involve drugs or alcohol (especially queer specific third spaces), or 3. Cost an arm and a leg to attend.
And that’s if you can even find the time.
@@msc4rt3r Ya. As a queer autistic person, it’s so hard to find a place to even talk to people and meet up. Romantic or otherwise. It’s either too expensive, too loud or bright, or very click centered.
I think this is why coffee shops mean so much to me. I meet people and have made the most solid friendships in them.
Two of my favourite coffee shops closed recently. In my city of one million, there are hardly any of them left in which you aren't expected to buy a meal too. Absolute tragedy.
@@lisaw150 I feel your pain, my friend. 😔
We're in a college town where the largest Starbucks have all closed, but numerous new small local coffee shops are thriving and packed with students. Grateful.
I've been thinking recently about the way public space results in gazes and I think the concept of a non-space is a really useful addition to explaining the paranoid or objectifying ways people interact with others in public that avoids taking 'public' spaces as a flat given, so thank you for highlighting this. Placings also seems really interesting as an active resistance concept. I'll need to look into both
I am so fascinated, can you explain more? What do you mean by an active resistance concept?
Not to derail but to add, I think this is another part of why being in public can be so hard for autistics and other disabled people likely to have agoraphobia. It’s the additional hyper vigilance required in non spaces, in addition to almost every other social interaction, space, and non space. (And for many, also the home.)
Edit: As in, in these non spaces there is FAR MORE judgement and watchful eyes from others.
@@ErutaniaRoseI just feel like the world is so dangerous now and life like this keeps us protected I try to go directly from my car to my home with as little interaction as possible and spend as much time as possible in them
Got yelled at by a police camera tower thing on wheels, in a parking lot. It said we were trespassing despite no other indication that we weren't allowed to be there. We had no place else to go, waiting to pick someone up from the airport and needed to stop so went to a big multi-store shopping center's parking lot. Drove a little too close to that thing, then the bullhorn shouted at us in a robot voice and the lights started whirring.
Yikes
A few months ago when i was leaving my town's shopping centre (mall) i took a survey. Along with other statements I said that I wished there were more communal areas and non-profit services. The whole building was bought by IKEA the other week, construction begins in october. Profits are always the priority of the land owners, we need ways of subverting their interests.
As an art teacher who has taught in more structured academic settings (akin to a work-place) and community center/club/daycamp settings (which are closer to a third place), it's amazing how different the experience is for both teachers and students. Without the extrinsic pressure of grades, experimentation happens much more freely and often, both in terms of kids' creative production and teachers' willingness to 'play' with the curriculum and present new experiences.
One thing I was warned about in a Place-Based Ed course I took: we need to be pretty careful about how we use the words place and space. It's easy to fall into the trap of talking and thinking about 'place' as a culturally meaningful setting built in an empty, unmarked 'space,' but that thiking is colonizing thinking. All settings are places, all place-making happens in a place. The only 'spaces' that exist are ones we deliberately construct in places, such as the spaces of encounter you describe.
I've definitely observed that difference in teaching environments in my own life too!
And great points re: place vs space
I feel like THIS is the thing. THIS is why we are all so alienated, so lonely. We don't have *real* spaces. Just transience, "no loitering", fences around everything, the vague fear that if we hang around anywhere too long without buying something or paying to be there that the police will come and shoo us away. How are we to EVER meet people under that milieu?
the burst of interest in the whole backrooms and liminal spaces stuff makes sense. liminal spaces are transitory and not meant to be lingered in, or they're not meant to be totally vacant. and the world's got bunches of places that are only transitory
The real culprit is actually capitalism
Wrote my dissertation on Augé! Specifically on the subversion of non-places by marginal actors (buskers, graffiti artists etc). I always love your work and this brings back memories.
Edit to add that british psychogeographers have also wrung meaning out of liminality in a different way.
Is your dissertation accessible to the public?? I would love to read it. Also I have a friend who studies street art in relation to the liberation struggle of Palestinians and I bet she’d dig it.
@@happynaturalist1793 ditto. Please share if able, @Barry_Tone !
@@happynaturalist1793 honestly, I have no idea.
Busker here. Living in California, I always found it odd that playing guitar on the street would bring on the police within minutes but pitching a tent on the street or crapping on the street was perfectly ok. It never made any sense to me.
I've been having this thought for awhile now. I've been calling them 'real' and 'not real' places in my head, though I've had little else to go off of than my own feeling that supermarkets and airports were 'unreal'. Interesting to learn other people think similarly.
you should check out Auge's work!
@@Andrewism I plan to!
Yes same! It feels like a not real space bc you can't fully exist there...
All power to all the people ❤
Great video, with truly excellent art!
If you're interested in the urbanist history of way too big squares without place for social interaction, I highly recommend looking into fascist architecture. Especially what they did to Rome is a great and clear example how appreciation for history can lead to godawful city design. The grand plan was basically to pick out the most historically important building (for fascist propaganda), bulldoze everything around them to create way too big squares, and bulldoze way too wide straight lines between them to show the glory of the Italian empire/Literally Fascism. Big cathedrals always had a bit of a square around them, but they used to be on the scale of people (bc there was only so much space within city walls). The strategy of placing so much importance on the Buildings and the Shared Cultural History while making people feel insignificant got really big in fascist urbanism! (And then other totalitarian governments started using them too, if you're ever in Berlin you should visit the communist propaganda street, it's hilarious to see how it only looks impressive from certain angles, and the further away from the photogenic angles you walk, the uglier and less detailed the buildings become)
Fascists leave ruin in their wake
third places gave way to non spaces.
from communing to commuting.
From communing to commuting is a 🔥 encapsulation of the situation
@@Andrewism Thanks
Had to read that one twice :)
It feels like college and school are the only places that have third places still.
I think that's part of the reason look back on college with such fond memories - nearly every activity you do is communal, there's lots of green space, clubs, etc. Besides the cost and how hard the classes can work you, college is probably closer to how we are supposed to live with each other.
@@donnylavs Exactly this. Part of why it really frustrates me it’s SO HARD for disabled students to get in or afford, as disabled people are often isolated more than able bodied peers through laws, architecture, and much more.
I'm very glad to be home, but one of the weirdest things about coming home is the realization that prison was very likely the most socially rich time/place of my life. I don't think this feeling is uncommon among excons.
Solidarité 🇵🇸✊
That's an interesting POV, do you mind sharing more about your experience?
I can well believe that same with psychiatric units
@@Andrewism sorry I didn't see your reply right away.
Sure, anything specific?
If not, I'll leave a more detailed explanation later tonight when I can.
@@Andrewism sorry for taking so long, I'll start by going over a typical day.
6am- breakfast in the chow hall. The tables seat 4 so most the time I sit with the same 3 friends of mine.
9am- rec yard opens up, I work out in the morning 6 days a week with my workout crew. Crew consists of 3 or 4 core guys with one or two more depending on the day of the week and what type of exercise we're doing. Like legs or chest or back. Workout crew is different than meal friends.
12pm- lunch with meal friends
1pm- afternoon rec yard. Afternoons I usually stayed in the dorm and did school work, in between semesters, I might play Scrabble with someone, watch TV, read, or walk the track. Saturday's I workout twice a day, but in the afternoon one of my mealtime friends and I did cardio/calisthenics stuff.
4pm- dinner with mealtime friends.
6pm-9pm, usually watched TV, or just hung out with my neighbors/friends.
9pm- last standing count of the day, I usually read for awhile and went to sleep around 11pm.
I was locked up for 7 years and I spent about 5 years of it at a medium security prison with dormitories instead of cells. Dorms held 98 guys in 49 bunk beds. Kinda like an army barracks, 4 rows of bunks in one big room, about 3 or 4 feet between bunks. Bathroom up front has 4 urinals, 4 toilets, 5 sinks, and 5 shower heads(group shower style). Also up front was the day room with one big TV, 2 microwaves, hot water pot, and 4 phones. I was almost never alone. There was not enough facilities (phones, toilets, showers, etc) for 98 people and it caused conflict, but we had systems in place to keep things running smoothly, most the time.
I probably had 6-8 very close friends, and another 15-20 or so friends/close acquaintances, and more than 100 people who's names I knew, and who knew me, acquaintances I guess. I was never alone, if I wanted to play Scrabble, there was always someone willing to play, if I wanted to play basketball, there was always a few games going, same with soccer, volleyball, or ultimate Frisbee. In the summer, we had a softball league with games almost every evening.
Idk, this is already very long, if you want more, let me know, I'm happy to share. Great content man, thanks for sharing it with us.
Solidarité ✊
@@bertbaker7067 Sounds like highschool (yeah, I know, by design), but explains both the idea of "peaking in highschool" and excons sometimes preferring prison
I live in a suburb of London. It's not a bad area in many ways, but it doesn't feel like a place to me. It's literally just 3 parallel main roads with perpendicular rows of terraced houses, a few shops, and a station - which is basically a glorified bridge cutting through the middle of town. No gathering places. Nowhere to sit. No landmarks. No views. It's a non-place surrounded by a bunch of other non-places. Even going into the centre of London doesn't really help, because Central London isn't a place either - it's an England theme park with a business district. Everywhere here is designed to make it as easy as possible to go somewhere else.
I didn't actually realise how transitory everything felt here until I went to Croydon and suddenly was like "omg, this feels like people actually live here and do things". CROYDON. Of all places.
Does this area have cultural enrichment by Religion of Peace?
@@CordeliaWagner1999 Does that matter? Whether or not there are Muslims in the area, that doesn't change the fundamental physical problems of the area - namely that there is literally nowhere to sit, meet, or gather, other than the local Starbucks.
It costs so much more energy to have an encounter in a non-space vs a place of encounter. You're going against the flow of of that place. Everyone "can't stop". They have somewhere to be and you're in the way of that. That is exhausting.
It's fine to speak instead of placings, to acknowledge that encounters can happen in these non-places, but it's an incomplete conversation without some way of talking about the inbuilt resistance to placings that you feel in non-places.
Yep and like you said, those kind of places seem to have an air of hostility. I think in the past there was plenty of third places to go where it seemed peoples hostile shells would fall off and they would become a little more warm. Places like the park and the coffee shops.
I remember going to cafés and them not requiring you to buy a $4 coffee every time you sit inside. I remember plenty of restaurants doing the same where they would allow you to at least sit in there for a few minutes to an hour to use the Wi-Fi or read.
But now, every place you go, they say, are you buying anything and if you say no, they tell you get out immediately…
And I've never lived under this much stress where I'm always making sure I have extra money just to be able to go sit in cafés as a third place but it's not even properly utilized as a third place because I'm not able to really enjoy the space or socialize with people how we used to because like you said the hostility.
This phenomena of non-places as you call it is actually painful i think.
We neeeeeeeed more walkable cities car centric infrastructure is killing us in so many ways
Yet another super valuable idea, and approach to making sense of how things are wrong. With what we've already learned about how we make sense of the "places" people find themselves in, "non-places" in modern cities and towns really capture exactly what "When things go wrong" looks like. Although, obviously, the structure of places in urban contexts certainly weren't accidents.
Great video, I especially like how this one was broken up, and the balance between scope and specificity here. This was very accessible.
Thanks! Means a lot
Here's an idea I had. Public cooling stations and water fountains will become essential for urban survival in the future. So why not make them into a nice little water garden spot? At the center have an atmospheric water generator that pours a fountain of water out of a nearby spout. Water not collected by passing citizens is used to grow water plants such as cattails, water lilies, and rushes in peaceful gardens. The water generators would have seats around them and would blast cool, dry air onto sweaty citizens, giving them a break from the sweltering days. The canopy of solar cells could provide shade too. If any solarpunk artists or engineers wanna figure out a workable design for this with me let's get a thinktank going!
Capitalism = rich people and their politicians don't want you to just sit and built friendships.
As a writer, I appreciate this essay format but I have to admit the way you read it aloud breathes a whole separate dimension into it that I don't think I would have gotten just from reading it. I really think you've got the pacing that compliments your unique voice and accent down to a science. Peak ideas, delivered beautifully! Can't wait to see more!
Great video that put terms to a lot of anxieties that myself and a lot of my friends tend to struggle with. It feels like everywhere we go is either a living place or a workplace and there's not much in-between, especially if we don't have money to burn.
We are more connected than ever yet alienated at the same time
Capitalism / Postmodernism IRL. Fragmentation and simulation.
I’m glad I had a makerspace close by an old address of mine. A collective month went into following a pattern and sewing the jumpsuit uniform from Star Trek Enterprise, and it was so refreshing to hang out with like minded people, for only $10 a year with a college student discount.
I think it was the first time I’ve ever really been to and hung out in a 3rd space
that sounds amazing! is it still there? Which makerspace?
Dude, the way you described my morning. WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO US!?
However I am actually very fortunate in the place I live
One really interesting thing ive experience is that on the Amtrak (long several hour train trip), I used to use it to travel between my parents, is that people on it are more willing to talk to you and are slightly nicer compared to airports. I think it has something to do with this shared journey for longer times and the ability to walk around and meet new people. I don't know if anyone else has experience this though.
my bedroom is definitely a place 😉 I'M JOKING I KNOW THIS IS SERIOUS
Are you simping over Andrew? Because, honestly same
Lol
LimInality ftw. Greetings to those who realise they have always existed socially and spatially in those spaces 'in-between'.
Enjoyed being introduced to the concept of non-places. Got way too giddy seeing "Frog and Toad" art. Was a huge part of my childhood.
Love your videos for their thought provoking content, but also find your voice really pleasant and soothing to listen to. Doubt I’m the only one ✌️
More public spaces! In my area we got a skatepark, and even I have gotten back into it. I noticed it fosters community and wellbeing for the teenagers, it replaced an old batting cages setup. Everything about this new space feels more inviting. The firm who designed it and the guys who built it did a great job. But it's still elitist and not a general public space.
I was really feeling this recently, especially after moving back to the city. Being in a car can in and of itself turn into a new hierarchy. There are large machines to avoid, small ones, ones that are shamed (think nissan altima), and so on. The high way is a place of encounter; but though the medium of the machine you are driving. It seems like it makes people behave far worse than they would on foot or in person. Cutting people off, risking lives, intimidating people out of your lane. None of this is allowed in actual places of encounter, but it does reflect; that even in the endless highways we are trying to be individuals, and stand out. Almost an outburst to force an interaction depending on your driving culture. Well done sir!
great video essays! happy to be in first comments... as a french philosopher, i find your thoughts inspiring! well done
i really appreciate this video length. it's long enough to spark thought but short enough for me to pay attention. love your content!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Idk St. Andrew, if take back spaces from corporations thatd be less private property. If we start limiting the right to profit for corporations how will the free market survive? Also where will I pass out in silence when im hung over without any emptey Arby's lobbys?!?!?
Won't somebody think of the corporations!
You always make me think. I’m never sure what exactly I’m thinking about, but I’m definitely feeling something.
Keep thinking.keep questioning. Even that is progress
Thank you so much for your work. Deeply, deeply needed in the world 💛
Thanks for listening🫶🏽
Bravo! The lack of 3rd places or lack of community and culture, is by design. Devide and concor, overwhelm them with fear and guilt. OI!
Went to visit an island vacation spot for our summer holiday, and the difference was night and day. Plenty of outdoor seating for everybody to use, it was a destination wedding so we ended up seeing family members every day when we went down to the main strip. The main strip was completely pedestrian, and the side streets mostly had golf carts. A few cars, but older and smaller ones (bc it’s an island!). My hotel was less than one block from the main strip, and all the shops and fun were within less than 5 minutes’ walk time.
Now, was this because everybody was there to party and have fun? Yes; but there was also a little school, a library/sheriff’s office, and a few local buildings. Most people worked several jobs, we saw the same people working catering jobs and cashier jobs and waiter jobs, so I’m guessing a small dedicated customer service pool that contracts out to the local businesses. But this community is not unique-if it had been my local high school, the local riverfront, and the local businesses, the pattern would have been similar. I grew up living in apartments, it would have been no different for me to grow up and walk two minutes to the riverfront, except that for some reason we were on an access road miles from the riverfront. Imagine how much money it cost to connect our sewer to the riverfront way up in the hills. But that’s where we grew up.
I can see a future where walkable, local, destination-led infrastructure is king. It won’t cost as much as infrastructure does now, but when it does have costs, it won’t just be going to the high level developers. If I have old family members who can’t drive anymore, I want them to not HAVE to drive anywhere to go to the store, not HAVE to be stuck on suburb island, but be able to sit outside and see family members as they walk down Main Street.
Shoutout mixed use housing :) been living on a tiny lil urban boat for a year now and it’s a game changer sharing a “hall” with various workers, residents, and vacationers. Of course the classism of Seattle boaters will always be there, but it just makes my day and honestly feels safer interacting with the workers n buzz of the marina :) also mobile home communities goated
Shoutout to T&T! One Love, from Guyana 🇬🇾💪🏾
How much of the self is compromised to accrue capital gains, rather than enjoy coexistence on a beautiful planet? Those non places serve the capitalist mindset and the frenetic pace at which we exist at the behest of dollared dreamscapes and money interests just feel so… empty. Great video as always.
Why dont you just drop out of society and go live in the woods if its such a problem
Wonderful essay.
Growing up, I always found myself curious about things that were decidely man-made and engineered, yet not necessarily in the humanity itself. Thinks like transportation infrastructure, city planning, architecture and vehicles/vessels I alawys found interesting. This was mostly taken from a perspective of learning how they function, and understanding their place in the world. Over the past half a decade or so, I've become more tuned into these concepts and features of modern environments and gotten more critical of them. Not always negatively so, but definitely questioning their place, and whethere they have been over-utilized (to be clear, they absolutely have). I do photography as a hobby, and I photograph a lot in urban areas or even industrial parks and near seaports, that sort of thing. What's really odd is even if you appreciate these things and are curious about them, you can get questioned for it and told to leave. They are literally *not* designed for humans, to the point that simply standing too close to them makes people believe you're a terrorist or some other criminal. I mean, it's really telling that it's so unusual to move around the world and have a purpose outside of shopping or working, that people not only question your intentions, but they actually find it suspicous enough to call the police on you, or threaten to issue a trespass order.
I use places like train stations and bus stops as third spaces, I go there earlier then I need to I socialise there, it's free and relatively safe once you get to know the people. There are the the same people there often at the same times, while the people I know from them aren't necessarily my closest friends we get along and share a good amount of time and conversation
I really value your perspective.
I feel encouraged to think in ways I'm building towards.
I spent a lot of time during covid lockdowns wandering about non-places near me. I refused to stay in the house. Walked around business parks, industrial estates, public spaces and office complexes. Many times I was asked by security who I was and what I was doing. I would answer “I’m just looking round” or “what’s it to you?” or “who are you to demand information from me?”. Their job was literally to exclude me from a place they had no legal right to exclude me from. I’m from Scotland and there is no trespass law in Scotland. All land is public land in Scotland. “Private” land ownership here is just custodianship until someone else takes it from you.
To prevent anyone sleeping on park benches they have welded on metal arm bars every three feet, a perfect representation of super modernity’s disdain for the humans that created it
Homeless shelters and social hrlp Programm exist.
These men don't want help.
Women get homeless to, but go to the shglzers, get help and work themselves back into a normal lufe.
The men just drink...
I see traffic-calming devices where they close a three-way intersection and replace it with chess-board tables. And they point to these "parklets" as non-commercial, public social spaces.
But you cannot escape the assumption that these tables are explicitly for use of customers of nearby restaurants. Especially when the "district improvement workers" clear-out the homeless each morning.
Bububut....the NIMBYS need to feel good about themselves...if they JUST closed the street and cleared out the undesirables they'd have to see themselves as the bad guys, and they'd stop...
The parklets are not owned by the restaraunts the same way they own their buildings. As long as you look and act within the range of what's socially acceptable no one will likely bother you. You are as much a part of "the public " as anyone else.
I walk through a small shopping Mallorca from the train Station to an internship.
Security is patrolling. I got a call, I stoppen to Pick out my Phone to answer, I talked a while. Security came and told me it's not allowed to just stand there, either I sit in the food area or I have to leave.
I walken to a small Cafe in a middle Isle.
The waiter said I can't sit there when I don't order something.
That experience was first annoying, but lookkng back very scary.
America doesn't even have Footpaths and Bridleways does it?
The hell is a ‘bridleway’? Also we have like sidewalks and stuff. It’s just that they’re not like super well-maintained and they’re really only in like places where there’s homes or businesses nearby, most of it is road
Had to Google what a bridleway was! We have some trails in Trinidad, and I've seen some in the US. Not sure about bridleways though.
yeah we do just in older our developments (anything built pre 1970s )I also had to look up bridleways lol
Glad i found this channel and your narration is so smooth and flow is so poetic!
The internet has become our third place. Whether that's good or bad, is up to the individual person. I think it's a good thing but we still need physical third places too. It's not healthy for your body or mind to be on the internet all the time- i'm just as guilty of it as everyone else, because my interests and hobbies are easily found here. I rarely, if ever randomly come across them in the physical world.
Love this video so much. To us, it's clear that all of us here can all be part of a global decentralized crowdfunding network, to help these sorts of spaces be tangibly established and flourish and evolve all around the world. With open source template options, iterable and customizable for each local scene and bioregion. Nonprofit community land trusts seem like a fantastic way to protect spaces from rent and resale in their bylaws, and ensure commons access and indigenous coordination and eco-regenerative practices.
Our project here on Kalapuya Land, Eugene Oregon USA is developing a free 24-hour flex community postcapitalist third space and fab(rication) lab café. Every town and city could have walkable free wonderful spaces to connect and co-create in!
Good luck with your work! I used to live there and loved it despite its flaws. It makes me happy to know people are still trying to make it better : )
@@potatohuman. thank you! I think it's already better than most places. :D Have you found any other good solarpunky spots?
@@SolarpunkSeed No, but tbh I haven't really looked. I haven't really cared until recently. Not that I have any idea where to start lol
I'd love to learn more! @solarpunkseed
Absolutely love this! (as someone who prizes relationality and an embodied existence above all else). But where does cyberspace fit in to all this? Is it even a "space"? If so, what qualifies it as a space?
Just my two cents, but I think that online spaces, even though "places" like reddit, discord, youtube can hit a lot or even all the criteria of a third space, don't quite get the job done like a in-person third space would. Because it's not just about the social aspect of it but it's also the tangential benefits that come along with the spaces.
Stuff like being able to bike/walk to a third space encourages a healthier community. Knowing the people that you meet there are actually locals not only expands your social network but also makes it easy to lean on each other for things. A ride to the airport, borrowing a tool, checking in on pets. All things that promote a more tightly knit community that you just can't get through an online third space.
And another aspect is that in person spaces are able to self regulate much more efficiently. I'm sure we've all seen how quickly communities on facebook, reddit, youtube can become overrun by bad actors pushing an agenda or one moderator who wields their privileges unfairly. That sort of a situation would be SO much harder in person
I'd call it a space, but not necessarily a "third place". The few third places we do have in my neck of the woods aren't friendly to my disabilities, and the internet has been a stand-in that allows me to tick a lot of boxes that simply aren't possible anywhere else right now. It's a "space" where I have many presences, but it's not a place any part of me can actually go. VR can feel damn close to it, though.
Same for me, as a disabled person: Online social spaces with fellow disabled folks are important support to me every day.
cyberspace is NOT a place/space. It’s not even an “ordinary thing”.
I think it's a confusion coming from the word "space" describing two different things. I don't think it has anything to do with the spaces in the video
I always felt this lack and couldn't term it when i moved to the city and weirdly my daily commute became very dear and in a way for a broke student. Bus stops were sometimes where i stopped and sat down and cried... And just spend time as life was just overwhelming and speeding off
Thank you for posting this wonderful video on a very interesting and much under discussed topic. Also, I hugely enjoyed the paintings that you included to illustrate your points, and thank you for crediting the artists.
This is such a great way to describe what has been happening to NYC in my lifetime of being born and raised here
Ballard was surprisingly ahead of his time, although relatively off target on the specifics, in his novel 'High Rise'.
Have you considered a video that would demonstrate how an economy based on consumption (both sides of capital flow) could function? I know it’s not in your typical realm, but we should explore how an economy could function where everyone had at least basic permanent shelter, 1 meal a day, medical services to stabilize a person’s health, & maybe a new outfit quarterly, without the requirement to work. The extension of UBI that no one is talking about yet. A survival guarantee.
I’m genuinely curious because UBI is a concept I haven’t come to fully understand-if no one works, how is the UBI generated, and how are resources like healthcare and new outfits available?
@@msc4rt3r that’s what needs to be explored more! As we get more mechanized & automated, things will be produced with less labor at any level. GDP will still be produced which can be directed to spending on housing, food & medical services, which directly feed the capitalism machine with consumption.
I've touched on a similar concept in my library economy video, where I spoke of the "irreducible minimum." I want to do more economy-focused videos, but I don't feel well-read enough in that field to give it the sort of depth I'd like.
@@Andrewism you bring a perspective that’s unique to TH-cam. Be okay with sharing what you know & ask us for feedback on how it came across & where else we’d like you to take us. We don’t you to be a PhD to inform us about concepts & ideas most won’t tackle!
@@Andrewism your content is well thought out and thought provoking. It doesn't need to be expert level on absolutely every video...imo. i hope you won't let anything stop you from exploring a topic of interest.
I know far too much about the etymology of place to _really_ pick up what you're laying down here, but I encourage you and your mind to keep giving your love of life and others as much freedom and enlightenment as possible. Peace and love to all.
The lack of easily accessible public spaces has been really bothering me lately. The dependence on cars has made it alot worse I think
visuals are 🔥
Hey Andrew! I'm looking to start an affinity group in my college. For now, ive posted up vouchers and posters. Any tips or attitudes you'd recommend?
Be ready to answer questions and try to orient yourselves around goals that can build in momentum. Have a focus and a purpose. Start from an existing affinity, hence the name. Start small, don't bite off more than you can chew initially. Build rapport and trust. Don't become insular. Try to build bridges with other groups and orgs
@@Andrewism THANKS SO MUCH, ANDY, IF YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE MY MONTH, what resources or texts would you recommend for a starting group? There probably will be some communists/other non-ansrchists, so I'm not sure what's to tackle
@@AndrewismThank you for this advice, and @spartan2867 for the question! I’ve started a group that makes and distributes zines to change the zeitgeist, and your thoughts give me more focus for how to proceed. We’re stepping into a new phase of purpose and outreach, and I want us to keep it really communal and personal while still achieving goals as big as we desire.
I really like At The Cafe by Errico Malatesta, it's short, sweet, and easily digestible. But I need to dig deep and put together a proper reading list at some point
@@Andrewism love ya! Have a good one!
I love the idea of third spaces designed for encounters, but how do you guard against individuals/groups from monopolizing the space and keeping them welcoming to everyone? It almost requires some kind of enforcement, but that would defeat the purpose of the space if there are rules of appropriate use.
Love your work, I tried emailing you a bunch of unique ideas and solutions, aligned to anarchism, it's barely ever talked about. Much love, from a fellow content creator.
It’s called liminal spaces, no “non-places”. It’s basically a place that transitions from point A to B. Like a hallway, a staircase, a bridge, an airport, etc.
We are all de-worlded avatars plugged into this space, locality doesn’t matter anymore. All that matters is your avatar, encouraged by a feedback loop between the self and the screen. That what used to be the self and the other, and the relationship between them.
Great vid, as usual. Obsessed with the idea of reclaiming these non-places!
I always talk about how much I love my tram line, despite the fact I've had some really harrowing experiences on it, and it is because of the potential for community that is there.
I have had the experience at least twice where someone is being harrassed, someone intervenes and this prompts others to intervene, then once the harrasser has been ejected or calmed or whatever the case may be there is a genuine sense that we are here in this space together and not just separate individuals or small groups.
I've often thought about how could we make that sense of community the defaul on public transport, not just because it's pleasant but also because it could actually prevent instances of public harrassment.
this is a breakthrough topic! love your thoughts
That’s why I love Chicago. Our most valuable real estate is a giant public space.
Do non-places ask us to be non-people? Does this work hand in hand with our devices to draw us deeper into our isolated media bubbles as we strive to be anonymous in anonymous-places? Becoming less human, less social, less together - afraid of each other, afraid of awkwardness…
Yeah early for once! we learned the word prefiguration this month after operating within the concept for years without knowledge. After working for our cities transit authority, I think it just radicalized us more to this concept tbh the way they continually pushed us to be aggressive to any sort or loitering sicked our soul and we had to quit
What an interesting thought process
i’ve been spending time in creative third spaces
Wow this came out of the blue in my recommendations. Love it, really deep. I find that as long as I can imagine, these non-spaces don't bother me. You make of them what you will, and hopefully it's positive.
Did you read "The Revolution of Fungal Life"? That essay about mushrooms talks extensively about capitalist non-spaces/non-places from a green anarchist/situationist perspective
"I call the places where this process occurs, capitalist non-spaces. They’re the dark corners, peripheries, less-used and off-limits areas that are built into the city planning. Median strips between opposing lanes of traffic (where I’ve seen my biggest Boletus to date), abandoned fenced- off lots, and buffer zones between train tracks and residential property are only a few examples. These are places where, for some reason or another, nothing is supposed to happen. They’re the un-trafficked temporary refuges for life-often mistakenly referred to as dead zones-that exist almost everywhere I look. The spiders in your house or the raccoon who eats your trash, the capitalist non-space is where they live. It’s the psychic manifestation of the notion that everyone must have a socially legitimate reason in order to be somewhere or else face judgment. If I were somehow able to track the physical pathways that the herd uses daily and subsequently highlight them on a map, the negative space would likely represent non-spaces. It’s where the herd seldom ventures, because built into its design is some utilitarian or aesthetic function that either purposefully or inadvertently, through law or through social norms, restricts or deters exploration. Nonspaces attract life because nature abhors a vacuum ... "
"Revolution of Fungal Life" by anonymous
I haven't read it but I will! Sounds very cool
I don't know why "situationist" is presented as an alternate description here, because the author clearly denounces the Situationists for their unitary urbanism.
>This is a life- affirming pyschogeography, which, along with my developing critiques of mass society, industry, leftism, and technology. have now fully discredited any lingering sympathies for the Situationists’ unitary urbanism. I know see unitary urbanism as a way for council communism to automate production in order to turn the whole of civilization into a series of city-wide Disneylands.
@boletus8290 I'm unsure if the author of that essay cares to do analyses beyond some vague opposition to civilization. They should have added that unitary urbanism (UU) is a project created and managed by the political artistic avant-garde (vanguard).
In the conception of unitary urban planning, the utopia of the project already announces the avant-garde vice hidden there, and which will modify its application: "Unitary urbanism is only realizable using situationist means." (First Proclamation of the Dutch Section of the SI).
Because it is up to the political artistic vanguard to develop UU, not only in its preparatory sketches but in its later applications to the future Society. The main idea of UU is that social behavior is linked to the environment and the setting, and that the latter must be modified in a passionate sense, so as to intervene directly on the affectivity of individuals: "The genuinely experimental direction of Situationist activity is the establishment of a temporary field of activity on the basis of (more or less clearly recognised) desires, which is conducive [6] to these desires. This alone can lead to the clarification of primitive desires, and to the confused outbreak of new desires whose material root will be precisely the new reality established by Situationist constructions." (Preliminary Problems in the Construction of a Situation).
In this situationist reorganization of the environment, certainly projected in a utopian perspective, it is ultimately a question of "deliberately" "constructing" a social situation. This voluntarist aspect of the theory of UU is already implanted in the first SI manifesto, Report on the Construction of Situations by Debord: "Spatial development must take into account the emotional effects that the experimental city is intended to produce." ; [...] "We need to construct new ambiences that will be both the products and the instruments of new forms of behavior." ; [...] "We must develop a systematic intervention based on the complex factors of two components in perpetual interaction: the material environment of life and the behaviors which that environment gives rise to and which radically transform it."
Social behavior is not yet seen as the product of a social relationship. In May 68, it would be the social movement that would create the situation, and not the vanguard.
"Our concept of a “constructed situation” is not limited to the combined use of artistic means united in an ambience, (however great the spatio-temporal extent or power of that ambience might be). A situation is at the same time a unity of behaviour in time. It is formed [3] out of actions contained within a transitory setting [4]. These actions are the product of a setting and of themselves. [In turn] they generate other settings [5] and other actions. How can we direct these forces?"
The Situationists are closely interested in modern techniques of social conditioning. They read Serge Tchakhotine's The R of the Masses: The Psychology of Totalitarian Political Propaganda, "about the techniques of public influence [used on collectives] by both revolutionaries and fascists between the two world wars," and consider the techniques of collective persuasion as examples of the repressive use of constructed ambience. For them, free art, in the future, is an art "that would master and use all the new conditioning techniques." (On Our Means and Our Perspectives - Constant)
The link they perceive between a repressive and utopian use of these techniques is competitive: "it should be understood that we will [actively] join the race between free artists and the police to test and to improve the use of the new techniques of conditioning."
If the Situationists conceive that given the 50/50 proposition, their experiments can, in the event of failure, result in a renewal of capitalist social conditioning; then maybe the utopian projections of an UU, conceived from a vanguard point of view, aren't so liberating as they think it is. In fact, they seem incapable of offering an answer of how it could outline new forms of social conditioning adapted, this time, to the "future non-capitalist Society."
This concern to appropriate the technical means of the time is constant among the Situationists. But if it is a question of acquiring the modern techniques in progress, it is not yet a question for them of questioning the very existence of these capitalist instruments. Here too, the criticism implicitly presents its conception of the future Society:
"we speak of free artists, no artistic freedom is possible until we seize the means accumulated by the XXth century - which we see as the real means of artistic production. Those deprived of [such means] are doomed not to be artists for these times" (The Struggle for Control of the New Techniques of Conditioning)
Without seeing that these means are nothing other than those produced by capitalism within the framework of its division of labor, for a social purpose determined by it. This vanguard conception of UU (terrain of experience for the social space of the cities of the future), perceptible from the constitution of the SI, is systematized by Constant, with the implicit specialization and authoritarianism that it entails. UU foresees the free intervention of people on their own environment as a purpose, but for the Situationists, described as "explorers specializing in play and recreation," it has already been decided that UU was "opposed to the fixation of people at certain points of a city"; or "opposed to the temporal fixation of cities" (Unitary Urbanism at the End of the 1950s). In the future Society, the vanguard unilaterally reserves the application of its project: "The ambiances will be regularly and consciously changed, with the aid of every technical means, by teams of specialized creators who, hence, will be professional situationists." (Another city for another life
, Constant).
Another reason why insurrectionary anarchists of today find it hard to tolerate the original Situationists, let alone the pro and post-Situs.
@@Grundrisse I just kinda labeled it as that, mostly because the author writes a bit about how the natural world is becoming increasingly spectacularized & commodified, plus their talk about urban mushroom hunting as being a kind of derive for them. And they mentioned at the beginning that they were drawn to some Situationist ideas. Also, and I could be wrong but, the name of the article seems to be a play on "The Revolution of Everyday Life"
This is super interesting!! I recently wrote a whole paper about public spaces and I explored my own ideas about non-spaces and their potential effects on us psychologically so seeing this pop up is very cool and resonate
Am I the only one counting the time it takes until we hear the first “wörld”? I love it to much
Goes well in cohesion with Byung Chul Han's concept of "Non things". Thanks for the video
U have just described somehow my feeling about somewhat. THANK YOU.
I have been trying to find the language to describe this phenomenon. Thank you!
Was hoping you would address the original coinage and conception of liminal spaces on some level. So much of our modern space is composed of places we pass through but don’t occupy. 👍
I was in Japan recently and a lot of social behaviour is focused on not being a nuisance to other people, because people live in such close quarters. The result is that people on the train together all "disappear" into their phones - no one talks, not even to say excuse me. I think a lot of social settings have been cannibalised by the internet. People just don't make small talk anymore, even when they could. I don't even have an office to socialise in, since I work remotely. Reaching out to people feels more difficult than ever.
I don’t really have a third space where I know people. I have a clay place I use the studio at, but that costs a lot to use just for 3 months and I don’t always wanna make stuff out of clay (I like many mediums). I also don’t even have a second space right now because my schooling got derailed by major social issues that were literally due to a lack of communication.
I just have the home and some shopping. I want more. And I want it to not be a sensory nightmare.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness and let the winds of the heavens dance between you. Love one another but make not a bond of love: let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls. - Khalil Gibran
funny how one only notices birds in the sound backround once one owns birds themselves.
The death of the town square. It’s transformation from a peoples social area, a space for contemplation to a commercial capitalist space, it’s architectural beauty lost, replaced by aluminium and glass, Now a place reduced to greed and consumerism.
The pubs, bars and places for conversation, a place of belonging for locals, also lost to the corporate juggernaut.
Towns and city’s are devoid of community solidarity, they have become sterile, soulless places.
How can that be good for mental nourishment, it can only foster disconnect and a sense of loneliness, so many people around you, but no sense of connection, just isolation.
Artists, philosophers, creatives, have lost the venues that fed their creativity, where are they now ?
I hope there is a pause, that people realise the trap that the elites have so cunningly devised, to remove our individualism and suppress our escape from their conformity.
I hope we can free ourselves and once again live creatively, I can only dream!
Skateparks and parkour spots are amazing third spaces
I love how, if you squint, and not to hard, the kids that congregate to skate in transit spaces after hours are potentially commiting the radical act of converting a non-space into a third place. All those skater kids where potential activist, trust me those no-skating signs where never about safety!