The Psychology of Political Cults
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- Political cults are alive and well. In this video essay, we seek to identify what they are and know their history so that we can avoid the pitfalls of cults and cult-like behaviour.
Thanks to @Anark for lending his voice to the skit!
Title Card Video: Midsommar by Ari Aster
Title Card Audio: Baldur’s Gate 3 Main Menu OST
Introduction - 0:00
What Are Cults? - 4:30
How To Start A Political Cult - 12:34
Political Cults in Action I - 17:15
Skit - 22:41
Political Cults in Action II - 23:41
How To Avoid Political Cults - 27:46
Outro - 32:14
Support me on Patreon!
/ saintdrew
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outro music: Cedar Womb by joe zempel
TH-cam: / @joezempel
Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/3vVDn...
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Sources & Resources:
sociologydictionary.org/cult/
Iatrogenic Symptoms Associated with a Therapy Cult by John Hochman - doi:10.1080/00332747.1984.11024257
Losing Reality: On Cults, Cultism, and the Mindset of Political and Religious Zealotry by Robert Jay Lifton
Responding to Authoritarian Cults and Extreme Exploitations by Steven Hassan & Thomas Gutheil - www.psychiatrictimes.com/view...
On the Edge: Political Cults Right and Left by Dennis Tourish and Tim Wohlforth
Age of Propaganda: The Everyday Use and Abuse of Persuasion by Anthony R. Pratkanis and Elliot Aronson
Bounded Choice: True Believers and Charismatic Cults by Janja Lalich
Raven: The Untold Story of the Rev. Jim Jones and His People by Tim Reiterman
Salvation and Suicide by David Chidester
Introduction to ‘Ideological Intransigence, Democratic Centralism and Cultism’ by Dennis Tourish
MOVE - Encyclopedia of Greater Philadelphia
Cults: Faith, Healing and Coercion by Marc Galanter
Ex-MOVE members say they were raised in a ‘cult’ where abuse and homophobia ran rampant
www.murderatryansrun.com/
leavingmove2021.blogspot.com/
Introduction to ‘Ideological Intransigence, Democratic Centralism and Cultism’
www.tumblr.com/timemachineyea...
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What sounds more cultish: "Andrewism" or "saintdrew"?
I never really got the name of the channel. It seems that declaring one's self a saint or saying there is a political theory based on one person's thoughts sounds kinda cultish.
Misunderstanding on both counts. The "Saint Andrew" name I later dropped for the channel came from a pseudonym I came up for myself as a teenager when I was interested in pursuing art and fashion journalism as a career. It was inspired by the fashion designer Yves Saint Laurent. Mostly cus of the "cool factor." One of the main reasons I dropped it was to avoid this misunderstanding. It lives on in my Patreon handle because it's too late to change it. That's the link on all of my 70+ videos.
I had a community post a while back explaining all this when I made the change, but Andrewism is not meant to be a political theory for others to follow based on my thoughts. Quite the opposite. I came up with it to communicate the idea that each person should aim to think for themselves and develop their own understanding and vision (their own "ism") rather than just blindly adopting someone else's. I've strongly discouraged the handful of folks I've seen adopt the Andrewism label from doing so. It's my ever-evolving worldview, not a rigid dogma to be followed.
Pinning this to clarify for others🙏🏽
@@Andrewism I was aiming for more of a fair question, especially given the context of the video, rather than a misunderstanding. I was using a framing technique of “why would someone even ask a dumb question like that, anyways?” I’ve watched a bunch of other videos and still never really got the name. You helped clarify it much better. Thanks! I hope you can consider that fair play?
I’ve dedicated a majority of my life to many of the topics covered: book-libraries, bike-libraries, art, volunteerism, consensus decision making, etc. Lots of my art and library experiences have enforced that asking a questions should be normalized. I have felt like some of my experiences have shown a little cultish swagger, and some of those experiences are not as tolerant of questions, or not as open-book to who does what and how they do it. I think a big tool of leftist cults, possibly not touched on in the video, could be the “cool” factor. It seems like the alt-right has also latched onto that as a tool. Everyone wants to be “cool”, right? Something to watch out for. Anywho, Keep up the good work!
Thanks for clarifying! I just found your comment was a useful opportunity to clarify something that occasionally needs clarifying as my audience grows. So I appreciate it and I wish you the best in all the work you do! Definitely keep asking questions.
Also, you're right about the aesthetics/cool factor and how it can be used as a draw in certain spaces. For reasons unbeknownst to me, some folks are really attracted to the "socialist realism" aesthetic of the USSR.
edit: typo
@@Andrewism I think that if someone self identifies with the "socialist realism" aesthetic of the USSR that can be a helpful to guess what they are about, and anyone who associates with Stalinism would most likely be suspect. I was thinking about co-opting things that a group didn't previously own, or praying on peoples' longing to belong, especially for teens and people in their twenties. Racist skinheads, or the alt-right have probably been a good example of this. Groups appearing to be cool, in leftist spaces, or leftist aesthetics, and attractive to youngins, who are primed to worry about aesthetics. The aesthetics of the color black and skulls used to be more reserved for punks, metalheads, and artists, but now it is being used in a new cultish ways, at least in the USA.
31:43 I agree that taking an anarchic approach to organizing can be good, and possibly extremely empowering. Consensus decision making could be used as an excellent tool, but there are are informal hierarchies that exist and need to be acknowledged and challenged, to avoid the project turning into a cult. Its insidious nature can be a slow burn. An attempt at democracy might be better than corporate power structures, but if informal hierarchies are not called out than that can be a path towards cultish behaviors.
You’re right. Pretty much every “ism” is a cult. Saint Andrew actually sounds way less culty to me. Every successful media entity involves manipulating a cult mentality, so this is fitting, despite the fact that this channel is one of the less culty ones especially thanks to some decent self awareness exhibited in this video for example
I just saw that Aaron Bushnell cited you as a big reason he was able to imagine a better world. That’s beautiful, dude. Thank you
Made me come to and sub to this channel, looking forward to watching your vids
Same here
If you ever find yourself afraid of information from more moderate sources, remember there's nothing dangerous about reading something that's wrong. If your beliefs cannot survive other perspectives, it's time for new beliefs.
Thats very true! Its very annoying to read sources from Moderates or Conservatives, but its important to do so regardless.
But one should still be careful not to let that backfire into being swayed into right wing and/or bigoted mentalities
The danger is reading two things that are wrong and then fighting with your fellow worker, or neighbor, about which one is correct.
@@whenyourerightyoureright i think that’s why we should be focused on building powerful axiomatic foundations and putting significant thought into our ethical underpinnings. I’m a leftist because it is the best way to achieve a world I view as more ethical. When I view the world based on that lens i will not be pulled into right wing ideas because they *cannot* lead to a better more ethical world.
But likewise a lot of *leftist* dogma struggles to survive that test. Class reductionism for example becomes immediately problematic for the way it erases very real injustices and inequality that is not class based.
I think a central part of doing “the work” MUST be found in building a consciously defined moral framework, interrogating ideas against that framework, and in rooting out essentialist thought.
Dogmatic theory focused approaches will never be able to offer that resilience because they train people NOT to think critically about themselves or their movement and ideas.
@@munchkingod6 thanks for your comment it put into words things ive felt but not been able to verbalise
I feel like a saying about scams is quite apropo for talking about cults. "If you can tell that it is a scam, it isn't a scam designed with someone like you in mind" = If you can tell that it's a cult, it isn't one designed with someone like you in mind. This doesn't mean that you won't be susceptible to a cult that is better designed for your ideals and personality.
Agreed, often you have to be at your most vigilant when a group is saying all the things you want to hear.
This is absolutely important!
I can't say I've been sucked into any major groups, but the people or fake charities I have been scammed out of money by (thankfully pocket change) were definitely hyper relatable and they probably should have been a sign. It's very important to research and give it time, no matter how aligned you may feel.
Yes! Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there.
our society primes us for cult abuse through everyday institutions. any institution that relies on us submitting to authority, dismissing our feelings and observations, isolating us, etc. does this. so it's no wonder that there are cults across the political spectrum. i think you're absolutely right that an anarchist, distributed approach to community building is the best defense against this. cults get people when they're vulnerable and at the lowest point in their lives.
Absolutely! I believe could have emphasised this a lot more. Hierarchical conditioning definitely primes us for cult influence.
Unfortunately there're a lot of lost souls out there who just want Mummy, or Daddy to tell them they're special and make the world make sense for them.
Stephen hassan in Combating Cult Mind Control says in his research, vulnerabiliry and low points in peoples lives CAN make it easier, but most often its smart, competent, people who are doing okay that get recruited
I think the main thing is making sure you keep getting diverse voices in the mix. I went to a Marxist Leninist party meeting recently and it was one guy who spoke the entire time without any room for questions. I was not invited back after asking questions.
I got involved in doing popular assembly style organising, they made sure everyone spoke with trained facilitators to make sure confident people didn't speak for too long and quiet people were encouraged to speak if they wanted to. So many more interesting ideas from so many different perspectives in the room. Political dogma is not only damaging because it becomes culty, but it's so rigid and usually only comes from 1 or 2 peoples' brains. I don't see why any self-respecting revolutionary wouldn't want ideas from as many different people as possible.
I had similar experiences with my country's democratic socialist youth org, moved cities and the only active leftist organization was a marxist-leninist youth org. Started engaging with them and I've never even imagined that organizations can work like that, democratically, everyone looking after another and so on. I believe its less an ideological issue, I've heard from friends that even anarchist associations had issues with cult like structures within some groups. We as leftists in general should really create awareness of this issue, moreso because it is incompatable with our basic principles regardless of ideological allignment within the left
@@redElim yeah I'm a non-anarchist leftist and I can tell Andrew has a serious beef with MLs. The problem of having cult-like structures and a lack of diversity in perspective can be found in literally any political movement, even anarchism. Just think critically about what people say and how orgs function even if they say they're 'on your side'.
I work in two non-hierarchical mutual aid groups. Its wonderful. We have consensus based decision making and its incredibly empowering. My confidence has skyrocketed since joining and actually experiencing non-hierarchical decision making. Its great because were constantly trying to build each other up and everyone works to make sure everyone's voice is heard.
As someone who lived in Olympia WA for 30 years, have been known to have fronted at least 8 different Anarchist groups over that time period, and I left for the ML’s because the anarchists were so individualistic, idealistic, ineffectual, and rife with abuse from narcissists and rich kids role-playing radical true believer.
Robert's rules are great for organising meetings like this
i literally rewatched midsommar last night; wild happenstance
it's a great movie
yoooo same
...or the almighty algorithm
I mean, Midsommar is basically an extreme misrepresentation of European paganism for the benefit of the horror genre, that type of stuff is not tolerated for any other religion. Same 'Wicker Man' type of fictional bullshit going off old old unfounded slander made by Julius Ceaser and his cohorts.
I didn’t know there was a figurative or allegorical way to watch it. 😂
if you're in an org, make sure leadership is overturned on a regular basis. when one person sits at the top for too long, become suspicious.
it's also possible to run an org with no leaders and to make decisions with consensus.
and without @@RD-oj4jw
As someone who just stepped back from a central role in an org that's nominally whole-group consensus oriented, but pragmatically a bit more centralized than that, this post and its reply kinda made me smile. I think we're doing it right. Or at least not too horribly wrong. :)
That's not how good or stable leadership works
@@obsessivefanboy Ahh, but good isn't always stable, and stable isn't always good. Sometimes they do coincide, but not always.
“We started off trying to set up a small anarchist community, but people wouldn't obey the rules.”
Alan Bennett, Getting On (1972), Act I
Anarchism has rules?
@@tempejkl It's definately not about exploiting others without contributing anything back.
@@tempejkl Pretty sure they were going for an ironic spin while talking about principles.
😂😂😂
@@tempejkl Yeah.
"No hierarchies."
It's kinda hella simple. 🤷🏻♂️
I see a lot of ex-religious folks in leftist spaces (myself included) and sadly that baggage gets carried over. This may account for the similar attitudes between political & religious cults-- you leave the church's ideology behind, but the attitudes are less easy to shake off.
Mosques can be quite culty too
Simply put in leftest language, they still believe in sky daddy. Just this time sky daddy is the psychos with money and and fostered narcissism.
As if modern people understand the point of religion and the concepts in those old dusty books on their shelves.
Spoken like a true disciple of the MAGA cult
Yes! Not cult-related, but I noticed this in an abusive ex-friend. Who had severe religious trauma, but used leftist talking points to manipulate me into doing things for him, and then denying that he played a part in it, that everything I did was all my choice and that I was just treating him differently because I was indoctrinated into Whiteness or whatever, despite taking a lot of time and effort to deconstruct those things on my own and consistently apologizing to him. He was only satisfied when I spent most of my time and energy catering to his needs. He called that “improvement” and when I began to set boundaries with him and tell him that some of the stuff he said and did was problematic, he would rage at me, talk me into a corner, and tell me he had hope for me to become “better.” Same catholic tactics, different talking points, which was where I was weak and searching for validation and purpose.
True but leftists often don't give space to ex muslims.
Did my thesis on cults, namely Jim Jones and even got the opportunity to talk to an FBI agent (I was still a rightist) and listened to the audio files and read piles of paperwork related to the cult and the incident. It is in my opinion that 40 years after trump's death people will still be praying to him. That all being said, another amazing video, glad you made it. I personally keep myself from cults by using the BITE (behavioral, information, thought and emotional control) model and to always tell myself "I could be wrong and I need to self reflect". Thanks again.
gerwomxn have "awareness team" cult now. its mainly about tshirts and ex-bfs.
antifa 1six1
I love the BITE Model! Much to learn from writings like that.
"More rigorous, less rigid" 👍👍 Another great upload, your storytelling and storyweaving is much appreciated
as well as the leads to books I am definitely going to check all these out.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'll wait for what my favourite political streamer has to say before I have an opinion on this video.
/s
The only nice thing Vaush did was show a ton of Lefties how Garbage Second Thought is. Beyond that he's a wacky dude with scary beliefs.
@@Nezulwho asked
lmao
😂
I doubt this matters much, but I write stories as a hobby, most of which i haven't shared- but I am trying to build up a science fiction setting that I am gradually sharing with people.
Videos that you and others have made helped immensely to build up a star-trek-esque utopia that holds up to scrutiny within the setting in regards to stuff like urban planning, solar-punk elements and ecological-friendly ideas.
More recently I discovered Anark's video on 'corruption isn't the problem' which introduced me to a Anarchism as a seriously developed ideology, and only afterwards did I find out you were one as well.
It gave me an actual idea for how to implement a utopian system in the setting without writing it off as 'Oh well AI just makes all the government choices now.' Even if what I wrote isn't a 1-1 tranlation of what I've heard about Anarchism so far.
In short, I'm very greatful for your work. It's made an important part of my journey to find better ideas in life.
I'd love to read your book when it's out ✨️
As a former political cult member, I can't thank you enough for this video and your It Could Happen Here episode about the same topic. Ive been processing what I experienced, and this kind of work truly helps to write the new narrative I need to make sense of that time of my life.
What was the name of the political cult?
It sells your point very well that you are a charismatic speaker that I find myself nodding to. "Remember you are vulnerable." "Yes, I am vulnerable . . . wait. . . I am vulnerable!"
high control group is the newer in vogue terminology used in place of cult in a lot of newer research and writings.
Aaron Bushnell's reddit comment history brought me here. I thank him for his sacrifice and his TH-cam recommendation. RIP
Me too. I came right over when I saw what he wrote.
same here. rest in power, aaron bushnell🙏
@@kittyonjupiterrest in power is a saying reserved for Black revolutionaries which he wasn't
A very important issue to be mindful of, especially with endemic alienation compelling people to seek out a sense of belonging and human connection at most any price.
Wow! The tactics in here run so close to my personal story of being domestically abused that I had to take a few seconds to ground myself during the video.
This reminds me of when someone I knew from college ministry dropped out of school cuz they got involved with a cult. The ministry staff warned me that while not all churches are cults, they’re all cult-like to some degree that can vary over time.
Of course churches seem like natural origin points of cults (claim to truth, clear in group out group, evangelizing, etc.). But you make good point that the danger is also in any kind of organization, even in moderate ones, if they start forming those cultlike behaviors.
As someone who is trying to learn about collective organizing and leftist politics, thank you for this video, I learned a lot.
7:35 I think this is the most common cult like behaviour in political movements, that both stops them and makes them dangerous, or even regressive, like "twitter leftists" who want to exclude someone who has done something seen as bad, even if they have changed or want to change
this is ofc an oversimplification but I think it makes sense
Yeah, you're oversimplifying a bit much. While people on the net dogpiling on someone chosen as today's "bad guy" can certainly be exploited in a cult-like fashion, there's also a different issue. The obsession of US left with de-radicalization and reformation that allows a ton of people who haven't changed much just say "oh I used to be a Nazi, a was dumb, now I'm a leftist"
I fully agree, however regarding that ive seen some people act like some people's refusals to not actively accept people as akin to exclusion after the person did a lot of harm to a marginalised grp of people before they changed. Which in that case i dont think its fair to asess it that way especially if the effects are still felt to this day esp if the person is a public figure, esp if the person who has changed hasnt actively try to offset the past harm they did thru their activism. Its semi unrelated but regarding this point i wanted to expand on it and how it may be taken as. Sorry if unclear.
Good video. I've personally seen some local anarchist spaces / circles veer this way. Never really goes to the large-scale dangerous extremes that we see in some of the examples you cited, but still the paradigm is clear as day to an outsider looking in. Similarly to the "You are not immune to propaganda" meme, I think it's important for folks to remember that whatever your hyper niche microtendency happens to be on the constellation of the left, or whatever ideological / structural barriers you think exist to stop the formation of these malignant social relations, it not only *could* happen, it almost definitely *has* happened already to others ostensibly aligned with you. That is not to discourage, embrace defeatism or nihilism or whatever, but rather to emphasize the need for constant vigilance.
Words spoken and heard. Killer work, and perfect timing.
I had been down the ML path for some time now, but I could never get behind it, something always felt a bit off...the constant push towards idealising Marx, Lenin, the USSR, to read "On Authority" etc etc. It doesn't help that being black and queer makes fitting into these political spaces a lot harder...the left definitely has a whiteness issue.
For context, I'm originally from Zimbabwe and only began engaging with politics in my 20s, but as I read more into the ML approach of orginisation it just reminds me of the origins of my country how it just became more authoritarian post revolution. The intentions, ideas, vision were all there, yet we came back to the same place: just a state with new masters.
Your points just reminded me of when I was a kid and my parents telling me "they know best" and I shouldn't question certain things, yet that turning out to be completely false looking back at my childhood. I guess to some extent one could say this priming towards cultish behaviour could be traced back to the odd heirachys of family lmao.
Appologies for the incoherence of all this, I'm just yapping ❤
You're definitely on the right track with your point about how our everyday interactions with hierarchical power structures, including some models of the family, prime us for cult behaviour. Thanks for sharing your background and point of view!
@@barneybetsington7501 uhh idk if this is a joke, but that’s not where I was going with it. “Anarcho-capitalism” isn’t a thing, and if it is, that’s what Argentinian currently runs on. So yeah…
@@barneybetsington7501 Anarcho-capitalism is just feudalism with a fancy new coat, where corporate owners will be our new fuedal lords. I'll pass.
@@barneybetsington7501the one thing that unites anarchist and ML is agreeing that “anarcho capitalism” is a bastardization of anarchism.
@@18nakedcowboys69 That might be the one thing that literally everyone on the political spectrum agrees on, except the self-described ancaps themselves
Aaron bushnell put on a redit stream that he listens to you and you helped him imagine concrete examples of a better world ❤️❤️❤️ much love and solidarity FREE PALESTINE
This is really great work. Important too! It's all too easy to look across the aisle, see utter insanity, and think "that could _never_ happen to me!".. but it could, and convincing yourself that it _can't_ is the first step towards making sure it _does._
P.S. thank you SO MUCH for sourcing the artwork in the video (bottom left, if anyone didn't see it). There are some AMAZING pieces in here that I had never seen before :)
This topic is extremely important! It's disappointing that so many leftist movements have ended up becoming cults.
It's all movements tbh. In this increasingly shite world, everyone is searching for answers and assholes are taking advantage of it.
People today are far too used to authority. Even many leftists, who should know better, might harbor unchallenged core beliefs about obeying authority and view giving up *some* freedoms (which quickly spirals into all freedoms) as a "necessary" sacrifice. Especially when authority tells them everything they want to hear.
i don‘t get which leftist movements have become cults in your eyes? any actual examples?
@@darkpixel1128 Leftism was cultish from the beginning. Read demons by Dostoevski
@@Palagov believing in something =/= submit to an authoritarian collective, created by a conman or a psychotic
Those definitions of the word “cult” are practically drop-in replacements for the word “religion”.
I think the difference is how extreme the viewpoints and actions are. Religions often perpetuate racism or bigotry, but cults take violent action, perform mass suicide, etc. (Reading this back to myself, it seems like damning with faint praise. 😬)
Thank you for talking about this. I became more scared that I might be joining a political cult as I realized people's hypocrisy and their misdeeds, and I'm glad I know a little bit more about what political cults are.
The skit is killing me. Makes an amazing shitpost out of context lmao
Thank you so much for making this video! This feels like a really important one and it's definitely going to require a re-watch or two to really digest. From first watch though, I can't help but be struck by how some of the things I've heard and internalized could be priming me for a cultish form of organizing.
The use of the BG3 intro track is amazing
its a game about fighting a cult so that scans
Had to check if my game was still going
@@ephrem3476I did this too and I’m watching on my phone
"Oh, so that's why birds exist"... i'm sorry but something about that tickled me so much I had to pause the video to comment and applaud it lmao
I think one of the reasons things like Maoism can be used for cults somewhat easily is because Marxism as a whole is very dense and hard to understand unless you dedicate a lot of time to studying it, which most people can't. But it still has some basic parts that are easy to understand that draw people to it meanwhile there are terms that can be misconstrued that they don't quite understand. Like the petite bourgeois example, it is literally just a word to describe someone's relation to the means of production, but it's meaning in several instances has been twisted to just mean someone that is/was better off than me and therefore bad or something along those lines, I found it interesting that something similar happened in China during the cultural revolution.
@@ngiyakir When I say most people can't I don't mean they lack the capacity to learn it but rather that with all the time they spend at work what little time they have leftover is generally spent relaxing or socializing, not to mention people who have other hobbies and want to take care of their lawn or garden and stuff like that. Basically people just don't have the time/resources to study because of their already busy lives and/or lack will/want to study due to exhaustion or just wanting to do other things they find more enjoyable. Like me for example, I work all day and have about 4 hrs after work to spend time with my wife and kids, I had bought books and kept trying to find time to read them but kept failing to since I would rather spend time with my family and by the time the weekend comes around I'd want to relax and spend time with my family more ofc so while i would get a little reading in on weekends it was very minimal. The only reason I was even able to begin more thoroughly studying Marxism is because I found S4A on TH-cam who does audiobooks which allows me to listen while I work and I've gotten through a lot more since now I can listen to audiobooks for several hours per day. So yes I guess technically most ppl can but given their conditions and wants they generally won't.
Ahhh, the introductory description was a bit triggering because of my time in PSL. You described it exactly.
here because of aaron bushnell ❤ he had great taste
I really appreciate your use of art to visualize what you are speaking about, as a visual person and artist it is super helpful !
Love the BG3 theme music, it matches the contex so well. Great video!
A lot of these videos tend to come up just when I need to hear them. Thanks for sharing. I really hope we all can build a better social infrastructure for dealing with cultic groups and pressures towards follow-the-leader behavior. The latter seems scarily pervasive to me in the way online instant messaging cliques take shape today. That's something I'd like to understand better.
Gotta say, i love the clean aesthetic you have with your videos. Very nice editing and art choices. Great content as always!
Great stuff again, Drew. Thanks for the specific things to watch for. I think the org I'm most heavily involved in is actually doing pretty well, but I'll continue to remain vigilant... :)
I cannot explain how unfathomably happy I am to have seen this. I want to address that I've had it happen so many times to me, be it in my interactions with a group or certain individuals, either just leftist or people in social justice groups, where I felt myself as an outsider or some sort of "feeling like I am a false ally", but now you've helped me see that maybe I wasn't this paranoid.
Besides this, I'm also happy to see that someone spoke about the dangers and plausibility of "leftist cults".
Last but not least, I'm glad, for once, to not feel like some broken or delusional person, for also being an anarchist, I do indeed feel like you're a voice for my thoughts, especially regarding "people over hierarchy" and the promotion of a sustainable, communal and bond-fostering perspective.
I can totally relate imposter syndrome + guilt in leftist spaces, it's why I left the DSA branch in my hometown. They expected a lot of commitment on things I didn't even understand/research yet, and I felt so bad for lacking that commitment when I really just lacked knowledge. But it was impossible to truly know my opinion, because I would just look into things in order to "get the right opinion".
Thanks for commenting your experience, it made me feel less alone.
This is an incredibly useful and well made video, thank you.
another great and important video! thank you always for taking the time and all the work you put into research and the making itself (your skits are a nice touch) 😁💚 have a lovely day everyone and let's keep learning 💪
In fact, that I left a UFO cult previously, is a lot of what first drew into looking into anarchism as an alternative to traditional politics. One side effect of this this is I've grown more cautious about become close with people as some sections even in anarchism became cultish.
Here because of the good and faithful Airman Aaron Bushnell.
I’m a big fan of Advanced Bonewits’ Cult Danger Evaluation Frame. Basically all groups of people score something on the evaluation frame but it gives us a handy way to break down which cults are just quirky groups of people and which ones are actually dangerous.
25:40 self reliance, OK, nature, OK, animal rights, OK seems good so far. Opposition to modern medicine, science, and technology. Ah, there we go
Very insightful video. Thank you for your hard work 🙏
Thanks for all you do and for sparking conversation :) I have been wanting to start a lil collectivist club/support group and I appreciate the warnings and potential pitfalls you share here.
Outstanding as always and timely information
Found out about this because of Aaron Bushnell... R.I.Power ✊
Another great video, thank you!
such a powerful video, thank you
I just learned about this channel because of Aaron Bushnell, and I'm looking forward to diving in to your videos. Deep gratitude and respect to you and to Aaron
Nice video! I find myself as a person with a strangely infectious personality growing up in a time of turmoil, so I think about this type of stuff a lot. I hold the personal belief that good must in some way be more effective than evil in nearly every situation. What that leads me to conclude is that being a chill, honest, genuinely kind, curious person who doesn't disrespect others isn't just good- but more effective.
In a world of shouting and hate being some guy who's like "Hey! I'm no expert, but these are my thoughts on this. No hate to those who think otherwise :3" Is probably much more effective at getting people to actually listen to you and meaningfully change the world for the better instead of simply turning a bunch of people into a bunch of dead people.
100 people makes it a cult. 1 billion people makes it a religion
Came here to subscribe to you thanks to Aaron's referral. Thank you for your work!
I love this video and keeping awareness and accountability against cultism anywhere! And the intro title card and music was on point, Netflix documentaries eat your heart out! 😅
This information is crucial. Thank you 🙏🏻
This is a very good video. Great work.
I've found that a good way to "stay aware" is by realizing how much of the society/culture you were already brought up in is cult-like.
I was raised protestant christian in a white suburban town with family from a white rural town...
I've come to learn that MOST of my upbringing was based in a cult (Christianity).
From seeing girls/women as inherently lesser, to seeing boys/men as inherently being prone to temptation (and therefore excused when they fall into it), to believing that "idle hands are sinful" which is why these communities are so anti-government assistance in any way.
Hand-outs are inherently seen as bad/sinful because it means you're lazy... if you'd just work you wouldn't need to beg.
Once you realize how much of your current belief is already shaped by a cult (typically christianity... it's the largest cult on earth.)
You then have to be careful to not fall into a cult that has similarities that make you feel comfortable because you subconsciously (or consciously) recognize them - but you think "well at least it's not that last cult I was in".
NOR fall into a cult that swings hard in the opposite direction out of anger (like many people who fall into LaVeyan Satanism have essentially done)
A simple way to guide yourself is by continuing to ask yourself "Who does this doctrine/belief/practice hurt and who does this doctrine/belief/practice benefit?" every time you encounter something new.
Love it. Thanks for sharing. I just came back to my hometown and the culture is basically like this. Your last point is right on. I always beg the people I talk with to think about their beliefs and content consumption in a systematic way. Who is showing the video? Why are they showing it? What's in it for them? How does it shape the content for their benefit? However, I get met with push back saying all that doesn't matter because they have no control over it.
many bring christianity into activism
The problem with calling Christianity a cult is that it's actually pretty anarchic. There were many, many attempts to unify and canonize Christian belief, but they nevertheless split apart constantly. Specific churches may be cults, but there are just too many internal divisions to really call Christianity itself a cult. (It's worth learning about the various ecumenical councils leading up to the formation of the Roman Catholic Church, since they were *all* about how Christian thought was too diverse and needed to be standardized. And then learn about the Eastern Orthodoxy (who also call themselves Catholic) and Martin Luther's Protestant Reformation and the, excuse the phrase, million flowers blossoming as a result... including American evangelicalism.)
@@Duiker36 I'm defining EVERY denomination of Christianity as a cult based on the Cult Education Institute's ways to Recognize a Cult :
1. Absolute authoritarianism without accountability (Go ahead and name a Christian pastor or leader that's been held accountable... I'll wait)
2. Zero tolerance for criticism or questions
3. Lack of meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget (Give me a church that gives out its finances, please....)
5. Unreasonable fears about the outside world that often involve evil conspiracies and persecutions (I mean, this is what Christianity thrives on. Xenophobia)
6. A belief that former followers are always wrong for leaving and there is never a legitimate reason for anyone else to leave
7. Abuse of members (Christianity is notoriously abusive especially when it comes to sexuality and gender. The belief of an eternal hell if you don't obey is inherently mental abuse. Using fear to ensure compliance is literally part of the definition for terrorism.)
8. Records, books, articles, or programs documenting the abuses of the leader or group
9. Followers feeling they are never able to be “good enough” (This is a HUGE one for MANY denominations)
10. A belief that the leader is right at all times (this is why Christian morals are subjective and ever changing... because their "god's" is too...)
11. A belief that the leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or giving validation (The bible itself serves as many christian sects' leader if they don't have a human 'prophet' leading them. Go ahead and try to question the bible... even when it blatantly contradicts itself, they'll say it's never wrong. The "inerrant word of god")
Christianity is a cult. Regardless of flavor.
@@Duiker36The original Christianity, that spawned in the middle-east, was an apocalyptic Jewish cult... just because it spawned a million offshoots over hundreds of years does not make ANY of them valid.
They are ALL cults... because the first one was a cult.
Just because the ice cream is now pistachio flavored, doesn't make it any less ice cream...
Christianity is the largest cult on earth.
Big fan of this guy....it certainly can happen here... thanks for all your efforts.
Super interesting and storytelling, much to reflect on! All power to all the people
I wasn't looking for an update to that one old "How to Start a Cult", but hell yeah. Thanks for another great video!
Also, just asking because of the intro, are ya playing Baldur's Gate 3?
Definitely, still in act 3
Man, this video really helped! I am glad that you pulled the wool off my eyes, Lord Andrew!
😂
This was very informative and interesting. I'm glad I subscribe to your channel.
Thank you for this, explanation.
Beautiful and much needed video
That intro music+video was *incredibly* creepy, I had to skip the last couple of seconds of it because it was having such an effect on me! Good work :) hopefully the rest is as engaging in less directly frightening fashion
Great vid!
You know you've been watching too many Americans when you're impressed that this guy actually said "criterion" (or was it criterium? doesn't matter) instead of trying to use "criteria" as a singular, lmao.
Good job mate
Ok but the BG3 intro almost made me spit out my water because I wasn’t expecting it😂 great video tho! Always enjoy your work
Great video and great picture at 14:30
Nice video!
Excellent video
If anyone else is trying to figure out where they've heard the music that accompanies the title, it's the BG3 music lol.
I'm glad you made this video. A friend of a friend of mine was in a cult and a lot of his behavior makes more sense now.
Beware utopian thinking.
I want to share some experiences I had with certains MLs groups.
I live in the outskirt of Rome and, when I was in highschool, there was (and there still is to this day) a pretty prominent student movement linked to a particular leftist party here in Italy. I initially had a mixed-bag/quite positive opinion about them, I was tempted to be more involved with their group but this thought slowly fell apart after some of their actions and after I started to develop my political opinions.
For example, during my time in highscool, they tended to hijack spontaneous student protests and take all the merit for them. This happened at leats two times in a short span, and in one of these two occasions, they organized a pubblic assembly in a park near the school. I partecipated and after finishing it, they said they were going to "explain the situation" to the younger students that were about to start school (these people were mostly young adults, this is important).
I went home and, after a while, through the class chat came the news that they were doing a picket near the entrace, and this would still be ok, too bad that by "explaining the situation to the kids" they meant picking on the younger students, threatning them and not allowing them to go in by force. And they've done this in a branch of the highschool located in a middle school too, and they also picked on the middleschoolers. Fortunately things didn't escalate and none of the kids were really harmed, but this, for me, was unacceptable.
Now I'm an university student and in my uni there is another group, they're literally the same people and are comnected to the same party, the only difference from what I could get is that they have a different name and it is the "university branch". I've partecipated in some demonstrations organised by them in the campus, mostly because they've been one of the few leftist groups that have been vocal about the palestinian g3n0c1d3 from the start in my uni, and a few months ago I had the occasion to talk with one of their members.
From what I had heard and seen previously about the group, I already knew they had an authoritarian tendency and suspected they had a cult-like mentality, but I was curious to know a little more about them.
At first this person seemed reasonable and, tbf, despite everything that happened during our confrontation, it was calm and collected. He asked me if I already knew about the movement and at first I just said I had some reservations because of some things they did, but I didn't hate them or anything like that. He then talked about his political growth, so I did the same, and after saying I'm starting to lean into anarchism, the smile he was wearing vanished and he proceeded to say "Look, I also was a libertarian marxist once, but know I know that anarchism is nothing but an illogical infantilism"... Like, alright, thank you for starting the conversation this way, I guess.
During the whole thing, he confirmed they like and defend Stalin (which is a huge NOPE for me), they idolize Lenin and they literally base their whole theory and geopolitical thinking almost exclusively on Lenin's writings, applying them even when, in our contemporary contest, they have little sense, at least to me. He proceeded to defend and justify contemporary Russia and partially Iran, using the "greater good" rethoric, things like that and other classic auth-left stuff.
At a certain moment, I don't remember exactly why, I mentioned my anxiety issues and he said basically this: "Look, I also was like that and there was a friend of mine that found themselves in an even worse situation. But then I started to see them at the head of the demonstrations, holding a megaphone and screaming. Because when you start to participate in political movements, you have no more fear, you have no more anxieties."
And then: "You can't understand the feeling, at first you are all alone but then you find your comrades, like-minded people that share your views, you start to think that an alternative to this shi**y world is possible. Because communism is not a greater good, it is THE greater good." I don't know if these words, in written form, sound that much cultish, but these sentences, especially because of the way it was saying them, sent a shiver down my spine.
The worst thing is, I've realized how bad some things he was saying really were only after our conversation ended, because some of them almost sounded reasonable to me. I've grown up with a fascist parent and other bigoted, far-right and conservative relatives, so not only I think I may have internalized some authoritarian thinking that I'm trying to "deprogram", but I also know that feeling of being alone and isolated because it seems that there is nobody that understands you. Then I started to see and make friends with more leftist and progressive people, some of which I myself now consider comrades, and that helped me to stray away even further from the fascistic views I've grown up with and also to feel more "home" and understood.
But after thinking about it, the things this person was saying just felt wrong.
Not to mention, at the end of our conversation I've said I was starting to frequent some political queer, especially anarcho-queer, spaces (I'm NB) and he said something like "Oh good, good. But they also sometimes concentrate on the finger when you're pointing at the moon, ahah" which... Like, I think he meant that queer people sometimes concentrate too much on the violations of their rights and can't see the bigger picture, the greater good or whatever...? I think??
Also also, he dropped the R word, he apologized and corrected himself but he also tried to justify it saying that sometimes he "tends to speak in a rough way" or something like that (by "rough" I think he meant "proletariat") and, in the group chat of our university course, he also proved to be ignorant about some aspects of mysoginy ("how the fuck dare you call me a machist, I'm not a machist, I'm 1.64m tall and I've never put my hands on anyone" one of my "favourite" quotes) and queerness, despite posing as a feminist and queer ally soooo, this is something.
And I know that this is just one person, but I know for sure that this mentality is strong in the movements he is part of.
I also have the strong feeling that he is suppressing the things about himself that may be seen as weaknesses by his "comrades", specifically the whole "no more anxiety" thing speaks volumes about this and, I don't know, I feel kinda bad for him.
It also sucks because both the highschool and university branch of this movement go pretty strong, in my uni almost all political discourse has been hijacked by them because they are very vocal about Palestine, which is absolutely a good thing but I don't like that they are the ones "leading the way", if you know what I mean, especially now that I know for sure they have this cult-like attitude. It's just really sad and worrying to see.
But anyway, sorry for this long thing I've written and my bad English lol, I really want to thank you for this video. It's really well made and it is nice to see someone breaking down this cultish mentality.
Could you break your story up into paragraphs? For the smoother brained like me...
@@YourCapybaraAmigo_17yrsago yeah, you're right, sorry 😅
@@j.p.7382 omg that helps so much 💀 (other than in two places but god who likes a nitpicker amirite )
bro i think those folks were caleb maupin fans
ML’s like this are so annoying. Like it is obvious that Lenin wouldn’t justify Russian imperialism. That is besides the point, but it is sad that a vague hope for a better world, a few Marxist phrases and an organization (or cult) can become a substitute for deep theoretical study and comradely solidarity in the struggle.
what if the cult has catboys tho?
Such a good video.
At 22:40 the skit by Anark was awesome! Great taste to include one of my favorite creators!
Really, all cults are similar, just that political ones take a political theme.
indeed
Generally political cults seek to appear larger than they are, RCP, PSL, MAGA, etc. but religious cults (not counting the established religions) don't seek to appear larger, they want to be a little more out of sight usually.
They're both ideological power structures, but usually the religious cults seek to have a smaller level of control over a certain number of people, whereas the political cult wants that, and a growing based to strengthen their power structure to take political power.
They have many differences even though they are both ideological power structures.
good video, thank you
i appreciate the work you do so much! makes me wanna push myself harder for the beautiful, generous, collaborative, thoughtful, rebellious, totally liberated future we could all share
Great video and some great art. God i love Gustave Doré
Finally found your own shit after loving your work on BHTB/ICHH. Awesome work!
Starting a cult is a lot of work, but once you get in the flow it can be a beautiful thing.
Incredible video 👏
Thanks for the guide, my cult will be the best there ever was.
lmaoooo the skit had me on floor 💀
I’m a new fan ❤
I appreciate the reworked Emo Phillips bridge joke. Nice.
Where does the graphic from 31:57 come from? If you don't mind my asking...
gotta say, even as an avid ML, that skit was insanely funny 😁
As an ML, while I disagree with much of the conclusions this video makes, the skit never gets old as an anti-sectarian joke 😂
I always loved that joke from Emo Philips.
31:15 Since I'm a non-Anarchist leftist, I'm already following your advice by listening to a source I don't fully agree with right now: You
So, what did you think of the vid?
@@r.w.bottorff7735 It was good. I think we need vids explaining such a serious topic for safety’s sake
@@eliplayz22 Cool, I'm glad you found it useful. Thank you for giving it your sincere consideration.
"I wouldn't join any group, that would have me as a member" ~Groucho Marks.
i thought I was tripping for a second when that BG3 music came in.. since I'm playing it while i watch this