Visit Turkey sometime. Roundabouts fucking suck when people do not know how to use them. Roundabouts improving traffic flow everywhere around the world is false. And will not be true. It works in Europe because people know how to use them correctly, and their laws are pretty strict about it. In Turkey no one uses them correctly. People who are on the main road assume they have right of way. They had to install fucking traffic lights on roundabouts here because of this. And this has been to the detriment of traffic flow.
Also to tack onto this. For me to get to the city center where I live on foot or on a bike. It would take me 1-2 hours. For me to take a bus from here. I would HAVE TO take the 2 buses that come here in the morning, and in the evening. The ONLY sufficient solution is a car. You act like people literally dont exist outside of city centers in smaller cities. The car takes me 15-20 minutes even with the fucked up traffic Turkey has. Just because walking cities work in bigger metropolises it doesn't mean they ALWAYS are the solution. You make the same mistake that every car centric city planner does by always saying cars are the issue. When over where I am it is usually the public transport slowing the traffic of normal cars down, and or ironically terribly implemented roundabouts that people do NOT know how to use.
Shouldn't fire departments be fighting against suburbia designs as it increases response times? The inconsistency makes me think they have other motives.
@@NotJustBikes can I just say thanks for publishing this on TH-cam. I originally watched it on Nebula, but you can't leave comments on Nebula. Also on Nebula I have to keep subscribing to your channel as Nebula goes out of it's way to make unsubscribing by accident easy to happen. I have complained repeatedly about this Nebula, but I guess I have cooked my goose, since I got a lifetime subscription. So I can't claim, I will walk away because they already have my money.
As a FF, I actually did a presentation and paper about this while working on my degree. I argued for "sprint cars" to respond to medical calls not requiring a fire engine or rescue response. Since then my department has actually implemented the program to much success.
This video just triggered a childhood memory I have of a picture book where a tiny fire truck who got bullied by the other trucks was able to save the day because he was the only one small enough to fit into the street where the fire was happening.
@@IBeforeAExceptAfterK Your comment triggered an oddly similar memory too! I sadly don't recall the story or its name, but it definitely involved a fire truck getting bullied by a larger and newer one - which country is your book from? Do you recall the name of the story?
I blame the high rate of using the fire dept. for EMS calls on the privitization of ambulance services. I have _never_ understood why ambulances aren’t a public emergency service like the fire and police departments.
@@albinoasesino I noticed the chart didn’t specify motor vehicle accidents which means that is probably lumped in with rescue. Our volunteer department mostly get calls for that more than anything else. A lot of paid dept you also need to be an EMT.
My father once told me about a change a volunteer fire dept he was part of as a National Park Ranger back in (probably) the 1980s. Before they only responded with fire engines/fire trucks to calls that requested/required that response. Then, to make the argument for more funding (equipment replacement/upgrades) they shifted to rolling fire engines/firetrucks/EMS to EVERY accident/medical issue/etc. This increased the "Utilization" on the equipment and made it easier to justify budget increases. Allowing the fire department to buy more or new equipment, hire more people (potentially turning the volunteer department into professional), get better training. So, at least some places, I bet that's why the bulk of fire truck/fire engine responses are for non-fire incidents.
@@albinoasesino when I worked in EMS it was for a fire department. I went on 90% of the shift calls yet was paid less than those who were firefighters. Also firefighters who sign up to primarily fight fires usually make poor medical providers.
As a former paramedic I can confirm, the number one thing that keeps us from getting to emergencies in a timely manner is the traffic and the inattentive or just plain rude drivers who will not clear a path for the emergency vehicles.
Why not punish those who don’t move by adding strategic dashcam to catch the plate and face of those who don’t move. Selfish drivers will be emboldened to continue not yielding right of way to emergency vehicles until you make it painful to do so.
@@ApexClubRacer Yea, you could give fines for that. It is illegal and, more importantly, dangerous. But like with most car problems, environment has way more impact than more than consequences. For ex, a narrow road will discourage speeding much better than a wide road with speed cameras. Here, traffic congestion will always create inattentive and rude drivers, even with fines.
I'm British and have been stuck on jammed roads when emergency vehicles have come onto the congested roads. We will move our cars somehow. People will scrape paint if they have to, I've seen it a few times as people clear a path for blue light vehicles. It's drilled into you from day 1 on the roads: *do not get in the way of emergency services*, and if you do, prepare to be shamed for it for the rest of your life. It boggles the mind that anyone would be selfish enough to not make way for fire engines or ambulances.
@@ApexClubRacer That is just creating more paperwork to solve a problem that doesn't have to exist to begin with. Buiod infrastructure up o proper standards and that issue fades away much easier and permanently. Otherwise your busy writing tickets annd force cars out of the way since there will always be a moron not paying attention.
I live in the US and the sheer level of blatant 'I don't care!' has gotten worse. I watched something recently that blew my mind. A car caught fire on a highway and there were no exits within a mile. Traffic stopped. So, of course, a car with people in a hurry decided to take to the median. Never mind the car on fire that was shoved to said median. They stopped, lowered their window and yelled at the car fire to get out of the way. Maybe I am just old, silly or stupid, but I don't think fire cares about how much of a hurry you are in. Emergency services don't need respect, personnel, funding, training or anything else, but THEY HAVE TO SAVE LIVES ANYWAY? *facepalm
Another thing about Roundabouts: in Britain you often see roundabouts whose central structure is a gentle mound painted a bright colour. This allows all sorts of less manoeuvrable vehicles to drive over the centre if they really need to, but still provides a traffic directing speed bump to normal sized vehicles
mini-roundabouts! they slow down regular traffic, but larger vehicles can drive over the roundabout where they wouldnt otherwise be able to follow the roundabout
@@bonniegaither3994 given how those drivers on the highway didnt know that "siren behind me" means "clear a passage" i would genuinely not be surprised... like... those sirens usually can be heard from ways away, so you should have plenty of time to make way in the middle of the road (on multilane roads its much easier to clear the middle than have everything move in the same direction - just head to the sides of the road as much as possible and the resulting space will be enough, even if it isnt a full lane) in fact here you have to already clear a path when getting into a traffic jam, no matter whether a siren can be heard, because its hard to get out of the way in time when not in motion
As a former US firefighter and urban reform advocate, I have been waiting for this video for a while, glad someone with a platform said what needed saying. As a firefighter I was statistically more likely to be killed by being hit by a car, while working a car accident, than I was to be killed fighting fire. Can confirm, cars are the biggest thing that got In my way while driving a fire truck or ambulance.
I know that not only for firefighters, but for ANYONE directing traffic or working in the street it is very dangerous. I am always cautious when there are construction signs, and even though the fines are doubled in such zones, NO ONE in American seems to slow down. I have had so many drivers behind me tailgate and become upset when I mind the lower speed limit because I am thinking of the safety of those on the road. Its very sad that a momentary inconvenience is seen as such an issue when it could save a life.
I'm also a former full timer urban FF, and many firefighters are super duper stubborn to any changes or break from tradition too, even if it is all just good.
@@---jt5wg A significant construction zone should have a police presence to enforce traffic violations. Failure to enforce violations is routine, so violations are routine.
I asked a fireman friend about this 20 years ago after witnessing the response to my neighbor's broken ankle call (2 police cars, EMS rig, 2 fire engines, private ambulance). He answered without pause, "It's all about money. The more documented calls for service, the more firefighters and equipment sent to the scene, the easier it is to make the case for larger budgets, staff, and equipment purchases."
It's not so much getting larger budgets, it's maintaining your existing budget.The problem is this specialized equipment may not be needed often to do what it's designed primarily to do, but when you need it, you need it right now, so you have to maintain it, train people to use it, and so on, and that all costs. If the people maintaining the budgets don't see it being used, even for things it isn't primarily meant for, guess what gets slashed in the next budget?
The real bitch of it is that he's right. Take a look at the wildfire services in the pacific northwest - brutally under-resourced and constantly having their budgets slashed and now they can't keep up. Politicians have the attention span of a Jacl-Russel Terrier, if it isn't being used RIGHT NOW then it's game to be taken away and spent on something that will buy votes.
Ah, the classic american, if you don't use the full budget, then you lose it the next year. So dumb how its argued "Oh well, since you SAVED money for us last year, then it looks like you won't NEED it next year, huh?"
One of the most insane sentences for me was "cars need to be able to pass Firetrucks When they are used." as an European firefighter the first thing we do on all streets except highways is to block the whole street, because we are going to rub around the cars and are going to run waterlines all over the road. You will never have enough water on your truck. In case of a real fire the first thing everyone does. exept for the Attack team is to get more water from hydrants.
My jaw actually dropped open when he said that. Really, how are do US drivers EXPECT that?! Simply turn back & chose another route. Should be way easier in US cities due to that weird block grid...
I think it's because 96% of truck uses are not fire so they don't want to block the street if they don't need to? Like if an ambulance park somewhere, they won't block the road.
It is a requirement for almost every career firefighter to be an emt and many career departments push their personnel to get paramedic certified or to already be paramedic certified.
@@Pegasus_p12Every firefighter who gets paramedic training is taking a training place away from someone who would be a dedicated paramedic. Thus leading to a shortage of paramedics. Thus forcing you to send a fire engine to medical emergencies rather than sending an ambulance, paramedic car, or paramedic motorbike. It's a sign of a country whose emergency services are managed in a completely idiotic way.
As a retired firefighter here in the US, watching this was a real eye-opener. I think back to all the fire trucks I have worked with or driven, and those cabinets are filled with a lot of empty space. From the start of my career in 1987 until today, most calls that come through are medical calls or traffic accidents. We have done such a great job of teaching people how to prevent fires, that we have for the most part put ourselves out of business. I really wish that the departments here took a page out of Europe's and Asia's fire fighting manuals.
It's the thought terminating cliche of "tRaDiTiOn" being a firefighter you know well plenty of occasions where someone has insisted you work harder and not smarter because tradition
Don't let the MAGAs hear your constructive criticism based on experience. They will call you an American hater for wanting to emulate Europe/Asia to make things better here 🙄
@@rogerwilco2You know people never listen to their employees. Esp when it's important info! Look at Boeing- lemme tell you, that wasn't for lack of employees trying to tell their bosses when they see a problem. Before the current owners, that was the culture for anyone on any level to speak up when they saw anything wrong, which was why they were so good. Not anymore ☹️
The one and only main reason why American firefighters are resisting getting influenced from outside of the USofA is this: *exceptionalism* Once you’ve been manipulated 24/7 this way: _"We’re the best country in this World. Period"_ everything else becomes negligible …
7:00 the point of "emergency vehicles being able to use it for better response times" is even more effective as a defense of dedicated bus lanes because turns out, even the biggest fire trucks are supposed to fit on something meant for buses
Yeah, here in Rio since 2016 the prefecture was building a dedicated bus lane for BRTs (Bus rapid transit) that cross the biggest highway of the city, and the emergency vehicles uses this lane a lot to move quicker during rush hour. And this week I had a wisdom tooth surgery and got a uber to go home, the uber was slower than the BRTs bcs it got stuck on the traffic, next week I will have another wisdom tooth surgery and I will catch the BRT instead of a Uber, it's cheaper and faster.
Dedicated bus lanes means 12-meter (40 feet) vehicles, or even longer 18-meter (60 feet) bendy buses can operate through them with no problem. So an american fire truck that's around the size of a bus should be able to use them just fine.
Majority of American style fire trucks will fit in bus lanes 🤦🏻♂️. I can also drive one of my fire trucks down a normal sized road. It’s tight fit for my truck, but a department shouldn’t let members who are not comfortable or who are inexperienced driving bigger vehicles drive the fire trucks to calls.
@@Jehty_ on most systems where emergency vehicles can use the bus lanes, the vehicle can just overtake the bus. Otherwise it will follow behind until it is able to overtake (still quicker than working trough traffic).
My house has been hit by cars three times in the last three years. After the first time it happened, we asked the city for any of a number of improvements to prevent it from happening again. Speed bumps were denied explicitly because the fire department would not okay them. After the third time, and a scathing local news story about the city’s inaction, the city is finally going to install some speed cushions next month. But only one on each side of the intersection, because of course, the fire department would not allow for more than that.
@@CrissaKentavrFun fact! The city owns the strip next to the house, so we can’t do that without a permit from the city. Which we applied for after the first time, and the city denied the application. Can’t blame that one on fire departments though.
Consider re-landscaping your yard. Bring in some decorative boulders as defensive blockades. It's on _your_ yard, not the public right of way, after all!
theres an intersection in my city thats notorious for having people hit the buildings on the corners of it repeatedly. It took almost a dozen incidents of it for the city to finally go as far as installing bollards on the sidewalk and changing the traffic lights to an "opposing traffic moves separately" mode. Now that they've done it, a bunch of motorists are whining about how the traffic lights are causing "traffic mayhem" so it'll probably get reversed and the buildings will go back to being hit by vehicles again.
Rural American here. I have two things to add to this: A LOT of rural fire departments are actually purchasing imported, retired EU fire trucks, for 'EMS response and vehicle crash' calls. They still have massive water tenders, and some ladder trucks, but they're already moving towards smaller, more nimble vehicles as it is. Second thing. I JUST got hired as a City Bus driver. Our City busses are so wide that we do actually require a wider lane. However, the easy solution is a narrower bus.
That is a great solution for rural areas. Use big trucks for fires where you don't have easy access to water, and smaller trucks for when you don't need a small pond's worth of water.
@SarraPiyopiyo Yeah, that's what I see in my area, too; in an ironic twist of fate, rural departments often have better sized trucks for city streets, simply because they can't afford massive, custom trucks like the big city fire departments!
This is not ment to be denigrating but I thought our retired trucks were mostly sold or donated to second world countries (Ukraine or South America) or to third world countries, because these countries have no money for new fire trucks. I find it very strange if they were sold to American towns which refuse to tax their citizens in order to finance decent fire trucks. Or is this a normal occurrence?
The funny thing is, the video doesn't even go into the better economics of running a smaller truck. Driving less steel down the road means less wear on the road, better fuel efficiency, and less money repairing. The most important side effect is that your paying for less truck. I've seen numerous local and regional fire depts. have to put up municipal bonds, raise taxes, or crowdfund for a new truck because it's too dang hard to afford one on the normal budget. Less steel generally means less $$$. So if you want to be "Fiscally Conservative" there are clear advantages to smaller trucks that can do the same job.
Smaller doesn't necessarily mean lighter, though, most countries' firetrucks are just as much filled with gear as their US and Canadian counterparts, just with more efficient use of space, but they can actually have a heavier axle load because of it.
Exactly, There's also no flexibility in big trucks. You either have it or you dont. And once you have it, you're stuck with it and the road and cost implications for the next 30 years. It's not supposed to be a onemanshow, integrate solutions like hydrants and road changes and distribute the individual needs to 2-3 purpose built vehicles.
And another thing, if you drive the said truck to extinguish a fire, to deincarcerate someone, to save someone having a stroke etc.... You will wear down that truck a lot more.
I live next to a fire station in the UK; Ambulances and police cars are common sights around town, with or without sirens blaring, but fire engines are such a rare sight that fully-grown adults will still stop to watch them drive by with childlike wonder. It's baffling to think of them having to respond to every incident an ambulance could've dealt with on it's own instead.
I mean I always wonder what the emergency is when seeing the ambulance and police but because the fire truck is so rare it doubles or even triples my curiousity
One thing I've learned in my life is that a lot of people use the argument " this is the way we've always done it" to any change regardless of the positive outlook.
General exhaustion makes every single problem you can imagine worse. The more exhausted, the worse everything gets. Until you literally die. And the main thing I see when I walk the streets or talk to strangers, is we're all fucking exhausted. Nobody has extra energy to spare for anything and most are sacrificing their health and comfort to meet the demands of modern life.
@@haydentravis3348 shortcuts and thought terminating cliches like the one mentioned by robert are part of how we got here in the first place. People need to suck it up and start sparing the extra bit of energy to think about things so we can fix this mess.
On the other side of it, it is insane to say that doing things the way they have always done it is leading to an INCREASE in issues. If you have the same roads you've had for decades, how could one make a serious claim that they are making the problem worse, when they were also the same streets in the era when things were getting better?
I'm a firefighter in a large northeast metro fire department, in fact you showed one of our trucks in your B-roll. Those trucks are actually custom made for us and are shorter than standard and have clipped corners and minimal bumpers. I am fully on board with us getting smaller trucks as are many of my colleagues. The problem is European trucks aren't available in the US. Rosebauer used to sell some, but no longer do, and they don't have a stellar quality reputation, so many departments are reluctant to take the plunge. One of the reasons European trucks can be smaller than American trucks, as mentioned in the video, is that everything is stored in drawers and shelves. When we specced out our (Heavy) Rescue we were given a budget to mount some tools, but it wasn't nearly enough to cover everything, so we have a lot of wasted space. Cost cutting is part of the issue. Although I recognize the fact that European trucks probably start off cheaper since they are smaller and lighter and based on models that are more produced, but then we come back to the issue of availability in the US. Perhaps the change needs to come from big city mayors. If enough departments demand the smaller vehicles companies will import them or produce smaller vehicles here. But right now, they just aren't available.
Someone else in this comment section was talking about how a lot of rural US fire depts have been buying used European fire trucks. I don’t know how that works, but maybe it’s easier to get those to here?
Someone else in this comment section was talking about how lots of rural fire depts in the US have been buying used European fire trucks. I don’t know how that works, but maybe there’s a partial solution there?
Even in Europe you will wait on your Truck order. They are fitted for the budget and needs of the city. So we plan month or years ahead and order them. The shipping time towards the US is only a fraction of time spent waiting for new equipment. But you can also build vehicles on readily available freight hardware like delivery trucks. But there needs to be a shift in management, guidelines and public interest first before you can walk towards a supplier and get a vehicle for the new demands.
@@alexandraw6264 yeah, I’ve looked on the site that sells them, none available. Not really practical for us to buy used though, being a city, we’re pretty busy and hard on the trucks. We replace all of ours when they get to 10 years or fewer old.
I think the lack of European style engines is probably down to the same reasoning as the helmets, it has always been this way and we don’t like change. In regards to not being able to import them, Pierce have started to demo electric engines which the bodies are built in the US, then shipped to Scotland to have the electric drive components fitted then shipped back.
@@stephengray1344 these pictures are pretty egregious, where I volunteer it’s much more full, not as full as the German ones, but much more than the ones in the videos
As an European I did not knew that there is so much emergency services ideas for bike lanes. Last week I firstly had a police car coming hot behind me at a light on the bike lane. And what should I say: Cars didn’t move an inch from hearing the sirens while I turned around, realised what was happening and was out of the way before they even were at the light. Got me a thanks from the police guy :D
I feel like another issue coming up with cars not moving is not being able to hear the sirens. I just... Don't hear them until they're right on top of me, and I'm in an older car!
One of the reasons cars are often late to move out of the way of emergency vehicles is that they simply don't hear them. This has been aggravated by a trend that cars are nowadays built with better and better sound insulation, because (and I think this might have been mentioned "once or twice" on this channel) car traffic is LOUD! Cyclists and pedestrians on the other hand will hear an approaching fire truck, ambulance or police car from miles away.
You have to start calling them "Traffic-free lanes" or "public-service lanes" instead of "car-free" Tell the fire departments that they want traffic free lanes like bus lanes, wide bike lanes and other streets so they have priority access Calling them "car free" has a visceral reaction from the average driver, changing the phrasing to "traffic free" or "public service" would make it easier to manage and remove on street car parking. While allowing service vehicles like ambulances, fire department, buses, and bicycles to have access to the lanes
@@SplitScreamOFFICIAL Then you will just be adding another name to something that would be fought against by the same people that are against car lanes. Renaming stuff don't work a lot of times.
@@SeinenNinja counterpoint: people are emotional and reactive. People will hear traffic free and think "hmm traffic bad, then traffic-free means no traffic. I like no traffic so I like traffic-free" Not everyone is an urbanist that understands car-free is a good thing or that it means that emergency vehicles aren't blocked from the road. People do not read more than what they want to..If we made it a a bill all about train, public, and bike infrastructure but called it the "Stop Traffic Act" a majority of the US population would say yes because of the naming rather than the contents of the bill
it should tho be common sense. every building on this planet has to be accessable for emergengy and service even if no traffic is allowed there. shopping streets for exemple also have a time where delivery trucks are allowed in.
I used to be a firefighter in a Swedish small town, during the nineties there was one fairly narrow 2km road that was the only access point to one village. Over time more and more people just parked their cars on this road blocking half of it when they visited somebody living along this route, instead of making their best effort to drive a bit out into the unpaved nature surrounding the road, or park at the pre-arranged guest parking spots every 200m... Eventually, it was decided by city top guys, that it was needed to stem this reckless behaviour the hard way, so over two years our policy became: stop and honk for 15s if nobody was in or near the vehicle seemingly in the process of getting ready to move to the side - just push that car out of the way. Obviously, we also checked that no kids were in the cars. The city ended up having to pay the insurance claims since it's considered vandalism to forcefully move a vehicle, emergencies are not a justification. So it did hurt the budget, but after less than ten "wrecked" cars (Usually a dented bumper and paint scratches, but there was a few writeoffs. People got the hint and the problematic behavior disappeared.
If you actually want smaller American fire trucks to happen, the solution is convincing Hasbro execs to make a Transformers anime with Optimus Prime as a Japanese fire truck.
That would honestly make a difference in a couple of decades time, since it would make those trucks look extremely cool and American love of looking cool would make it happen.
we already had him as a fire truck- twice in fact; one in robots in disguise anime and one in transformers animated. The former is made in japan, however his toy does seem to be based on the larger japanese trucks
In fact, the price, maintenance costs and size of American fire trucks were one of the reasons why my country stopped importing them and started importing European and Asian fire trucks.
It's not just about the frequency of the siren; it's also the fact that they only use two distinct tones, either higher or lower in pitch. This design makes it much easier to pinpoint the direction of the sound and determine the speed and distance of the vehicle, whether it's approaching or moving away. I've watched videos unrelated to fire trucks, where people in the U.S., who've lived there their entire lives, say, "Oh, an emergency vehicle-where's it coming from?" just seconds before it crosses right in front of them at an intersection. In Germany, I can hear a siren from a minute away, and I'm usually confident it's coming my way, with a good sense of its direction.
@@LegPressWhizzer It's called doppler effect. When the siren pitches up and down you can't easily pinpoint if it's coming towards you or if it's driving away from you. With two distinct tones you can easily hear if those two tones are pitching up (then it's coming towards you) or pitching down (then it drives away from you). It's the same with direction: your ears might be pretty close together, but the brain can still easily detect the direction sound is coming from, but when it's constantly changing pitch on it's own it's harder for the brain to differentiate between the doppler effect and the direction the sound is coming from.
Fr. Almost tuned over by one cause I dint know where they coming from. I'm naturally slow to take off intersections but even thr confusion makes it hard for people to know how/where to yeild
So I watched this last night, and today I happened to be riding my bike along the beach in Santa Monica (CA, USA). There was a vagrant on one of the benches by a parking lot who looked like he was having some difficulties - maybe he ingested a bit too much of his drug of choice - and a couple of police officers were checking him out. I guess they called the paramedics, because just a few minutes later, guess what showed up? An engine (the one with the water in it), a paramedic ambulance, and - no word of a lie - a freakin' massive articulated ladder truck! The BIG one with the extra steering wheel in the back! There was one guy, no fire, and no highrise buildings within a mile of there. All the old lush needed was the ambulance.
@@davidparker9676 Since you clearly don't understand your own hypothetical - judging by your bewildering response to Sofia's retort - let me break down the hypothetical to expose your error. You started out by saying that blaming fire departments for accidents is like blaming eating utensils for obesity. Let's break down the issue here. Utensils are simply a means for people to consume food. If one over-consumes food or only consumes food of low quality, they are likely to become obese. The utensils used to eat the food have no relation to the actual problem in this scenario, which can be quality, quantity, or both. By way of contrast, we will now examine the relationship between car culture, fire departments, and accidents involving motor vehicles. In this scenario, car culture has influenced fire departments to the point where they are actively supporting policies that are both less efficient for effective emergency responses and less safe for road safety. The difference in these hypotheticals (as Sofia previously laid out) lies in the fact that utensils are not active participants in making obesity an issue, whilst fire departments are ACTIVELY opposing policies that would make roads safer and reduce motor vehicle accidents. The fundamental difference here is the fact that fire departments are active agents while utensils are not.
As a firefighter in the United States, this video is quite accurate of the current situation. One aspect that I don't think was covered enough is another explanation as to why some fire departments respond with an engine/truck to a medical emergency. In order to achieve lower staffing minimums, some departments will staff an engine with 2 people and an ambulance with 2 people. While 2 people staffed in an ambulance isn't out of the ordinary, it is insufficient for medical emergencies that could benefit from more personnel such as CPR or emergencies with multiple non-critical patients. With a shortage of ambulances, requesting another ambulance solely for the personnel is not ideal. Additionally, 2 people in an engine/truck is almost always insufficient for any type of fire incident. As a result, some departments dispatch stations to calls rather than individual apparatus with the expectation that everyone goes. This also allows for more flexibility in the event that another emergency arises during a call. That's one of the reasons many fire department ambulances will have a comportment for turnout gear. To be clear, this is not ideal for the reasons discussed in the video, but it should help explain another reason why fire engines/trucks respond to medical emergencies in many areas of the United States.
Thanks for that context. I figured it ultimately came down to money, one way or the other. Is it reasonable to assume you were talking about an urban/suburban department, not a rural department, where staffing budgets are even smaller?
This is where the German system comes into play. A standard emergency ambulance is normally staffed by a an EMT and a paramedic. Based on the type of emergency the dispatcher will also alert the NEF, loosely translated to Emergency Medic Vehicle which is staffed by an emergency doc and an EMT as a driver. Fire engines will only be alerted if additional help is needed that only firefighters can deal with.
@@thewickedwhydah It's common that ambulances are also staffed with an EMT and a paramedic in the United States, and some places have additional response vehicles (non-patient transport) typically for experience paramedics. The benefit of the model I discussed (not that I fully agree with it) is that the personnel are shared both directions, not just that a fire engine is assistance an ambulance.
@@jonathan248 OK, I hear what you say and understand your reasoning. But what happens if there's a fire related incident while the engine is hold up at a medical emergency?
I'm an architect working in the United States, and I cannot tell you how many times I've received project feedback from fire departments saying how am I going to get my vehicle through we need to make these streets wider, it's completely antithetical to the direction when you to move in
I’m a mechanical engineer who works with architects on building design. I can confirm the asinine local and state fire access requirements. The state of California’s 20 ft (6 m) access road requirements are considered less objectionable than some of the other requirements. Some of the local fire departments want even wider access roads than what the state requires! LA requires 40 ft (12 m)! Double what the state requires! It’s crazy!
Former firefighter/emt in a major west coast city. I can confirm it's a bit of a racket. This video is accurate. To clarify why engines respond to medical calls even when ambulances, particularly private ambulance, are on scene and do the bulk of care and transport, it's because they can add this response to their tally, which is how they get additional funding.
As a volunteer firefighter from germany i have to agree with the intersection part of the video heavily. I am in a more rural area and we often have mutual-aid type of calls, meaning another department the town over needs aditional recources. Every time we enter an intersection, it is pure pain, people don't see you (because who looks when turning right?), if you approach an urban intersection with multiple lanes and switch the lanes you have to be careful of where the cars move, that people approaching the intersection see you etc. But everytime we get into a roundabout, it is basically just slowing down enough to make sure people see you and then hitting the gas again. Because, at least in my experience, roundabouts have way better visibility. An advantage of smaller trucks is that you can reach places other trucks can't. Our town has a lot of narrow roads, and also long paths with gardens. So after we got a bigger tanker-type truck for structural fires and forrest fires our next vehicle was a smaller truck to ensure we can get through those small paths to give technical and medical aid without having to worry how to get there, and maybe on bigger structures approach the fire from another side that bigger trucks couldn't reach. And the funny thing about our smaller truck is: we put so much effort into fitting all our gear that we will still have room for plenty more. Because firetrucks constantly grow, that is a fact. There is always new things being added and new equipment we have to deal with and new scenarios we constantly have to be ready for. So we wanted to make sure we dont have to get an expensive rework or even a whole new truck in the next few years simply because potential gear wont fit. After recent floodings we added new pumps for basements that can pump out shallow water (2mm depth btw, thats pretty good), we will get new hydraulic and technical equipment for car and machine-accidents, as well as new gear for forrest-fires. We still have room for medical equipment, which we currently don't need but potentially will get in the future. So we wanted to ensure everything fits. And we still have plenty of room that we could use more efficiently. Even on our bigger trucks we constly look for ways to make the space as efficient as possible. Seeing how spacious US-trucks are and how much is not being used is a bit of a pain. My guess is, that those trucks could be about 10-15% smaller right now, if only they'd use them more efficiently. Of course different layouts and trucks would be better, but i am not an expert, just speaking from my own experiences :)
I live in a small dutch city that already existed back in 828 AD, and it's streets were designed for horse drawn carriages and people on foot. There are even some paths so narrow between homes that fat tourists have been known to get stuck... Rather then tearing a 1200+ year old city down, we use smaller firetrucks.
A lot of US fire engines have 4-8 seats in the giant cabs and they are only staff with 3-4 guys max. It is an ego thing to buy a "nicer" or bigger engine even so it negatively effects access to certain scenes.
Bicyclists do not pay for roads, often do not obey traffic laws and don’t use common sense like not going to the right of a vehicle that’s turning right.
@raybod1775 actually they don't mainly because people in cars dont put signals and that bikes aren't made to deal with traffic. That's why we have bike lanes.
@@raybod1775 actually going by standard traffic rules it's up to the car to make sure when turning that no one is coming up from the right site whenever turning, right turns also take place one later farther than the sidewalk, and a pedestrian could also be crossing, so a car turning right hitting a cyclist on their right IS at fault.
@@raybod1775 There is no country in this world where the taxes for owning and driving cars are getting anywhere near the costs of road building and maintenance. In most countries, it's not even enough to sustain the highway network, let alone country roads and city streets, not to mention parking lots. And there is no country in the world where the majority of drivers fully obey traffic laws. And other than bycylist, not obeying the rules often endangers other people. Funny enough that this is proven by your next statement: If a bycyle has the right-of-way, it is perfectly sane passing it on the right even if it's indicating that it wants to turn right, because, well, you know, they count on the drivers to obey traffic laws...
As a retired firefighter who started his career 50 years ago, i agree there is an overcompensation going on with US for apparatus. You opened my eyes to the affects of this trend.
Oh, thank you so much for this. As an Architect and Planner, I am constantly frustrated that great plans for new neighborhoods, or infill, or narrower roads, are immediately rejected by smug Fire Marshals. Nobody feels comfortable pushing back, as who wants people to die!? I am shocked at how many times I see huge hook and ladder trucks screaming down my street to attend to a medical service call. We are all paying for this stupidity.
Fire marshals: "Am I out of touch?" "No, it's the town planners, traffic engineers, public transit advocates, road safety advocates, and cycling advocates who are wrong."
Glad a light was shed on this. I feel like there is a lot of invisible infrastructure that prevents us from making progress. For example, part of the reason our school lunches in the US are horrendous is that most schools lack proper kitchens with adequate cooking equipment. So rather than cook fresh meals every day they just heat up some deep fried crap and any initiatives for healthier meals (well I should say lunches since that is all they get in American schools, even though they are paid for at point of sale) fall flat
As an automation engineer, I find it a little funny an architecture complaining about design lol. I do not mean any offense btw. Just a friendly jab at a fellow professional. 🤣 This isn't my wheelhouse so yes, I will stay in my lane. Pun intended.
It’s really strange how people seem to subconsciously think that because a road is not explicitly just for cars that an emergency vehicle is not capable of driving on it, when a bike line, pedestrian space are all paved surfaces just with different paint and sizes.
When we put things on our sidewalks, we regularly and spontaneously think about not taking up space we don't need to or ensuring there's enough room for a vehicle to pass through. Because we are generally conditioned to think about this. We spontaneously consider these factors.
I think there's also a funky self fulfilling prophecy at play there with a limit of imagination in the US, because bikelanes & sidewalks are so pitifully small & the cars so ginormous, the idea of a sidewalk a full vehicle can drive down sounds like an oxymoron, doubly so if it's a bikelane because they are just so freaking small or just out right nonexistent. Not even to mention in like where I live in North East Pennsylvania there are just sections of road with no sidewalk at all. Like I'd be able to get so much easier from my house to the grocery store if I could use my kick scooter but long stretches of no sidewalk makes that basically impossible.
After a recent traffic-calming meeting in Toronto where the EMS access issue was raised repeatedly, I actually talked to the crew chief down at the local fire hall.... who had no vehicle access concerns at all. So I'm left wondering how much of this 'concern' is actually coming from the fire department, and how much is drivers concerned "on their behalf".
The objections will be coming from the people at the top of the organisation, or from an administrator with the specific job of writing fire department responses to proposals. The odds of them actually consulting the local crews who work in an area as part of the response are quite slim.
The Yonge St. bike lane pilot, which was referenced in @NotJustBikes ' video, actually didn't have any objections from the fire department. In fact, the fire department came out during one consultation over Zoom and said they noticed no differences in response times.
@@stephengray1344 this. It’s been my experience that most objections come from the politically appointed leadership (and their staffers) of fire departments, not the on the ground fire crews (though that does happen from time to time).
Not only do we Europeans have firetrucks for fires, but specializes trucks for specific cases like car accidents, etc.. They don't have to be that big or have to carry everything with them.
Depends, most vehicular accidents will nevertheless be attended by a "normal" fire truck/engine. The amount of gear you actually need for it is remarkably low. It fits into one or maximum two compartments. There are more specialized units for heavy rescue and there are others meant as first responders that have the bare minimum and wait for backup. It is up to the departments and the standards practiced where you are.
if you'd want footage of fire trucks in the netherlands, check a market (the weekly ones, containing stalls) in older city centers. If you go early enough chances are quite high that you'll see fire trucks drive around it to check that they can get everywhere. In Deventer for example they come by on friday and saturday around 9 in the morning. Granted not every time, but they do often enough for it to become normal. And it isn't exactly while they are in action
I saw them checking some streets around my building cos those are narrow and the ladder truck may not fit. Even some changes were mark by the fire department when the street was rebuild and some corners where too tight.
@@josemorenoporras7506honestly this is another point against the American fire truck argument, because as you seem to be saying, you can actually test a design to ensure it works and can make changes if it doesn’t!
It's like every time you try to fix American cities, you uncover a new problem that's been swept under the rug for the benefit of some rich companies and the wealthy class. Edit: (In this case it's privatized health care causing ambulances to be prohibitively expensive for many and necessitating fire departments to step in and pick up the slack)
@@WaffleAbuser Yes turns out decades of underlyign problems cannot be fixed with a simple solution. Same for an alcoholic, they're not going to change their lives over night. In fact for severe alcoholic it's actually very dangerous to go dry turkey. one of few drugs that can actually kill you that way.
Obviously the US healthcare system is not NJB's area of expertise, but I'm glad someone pointed this out. Though I guess even if you solved _that_ problem, ambulances would still get stuck in traffic just like buses and fire trucks...
In France firefighter are also doing a lot of ambulance and paramedic work, they just use dedicated vehicules (who are also needed on fires in addition with firetrucks)
when i started this video i was somewhat skeptical of the claim that fire trucks and departments were actually THAT bad but by like 33% through the video i was like "oh my god this is so much worse than i'd thought"
I remember that exact discovery TV program. The USA team lost badly due to poor acceleration of heavy vehicle, and bad team effort and procedure. The European team did full equipment and personnel checks before departure, at site, and after operation, and still finish the test faster than USA team. The funniest thing was the USA team threw the dummies on the ground while the European team gently put them on sheets beside first-aid kits.
@@Blitz350 It still proves the point NJB makes is his video : why the hell are so many unimportant features that serve no purpose put blindly on ALL firetrucks ? Unless there's a very region specific item, a fire truck will 99,99% of the time not require the use of 4x4. Getting unneeded stuff off the vehicles and better management of what must be kept would be a great way to help out. Also, if I told someone there will be a track race and they bring the Land Rover, it's their fault for losing and not figuring out that they brought the wrong vehicle for the job. The simple fact that virtually the entire world does it differently should already bring up someone's attention. Physics in America are no different from the rest of the world, so why reject everything that's done elsewhere? As some people pointed out on this video, it feels like a classic case of North American exceptionalism.
@@Blitz350 "For a specialized role" except it's the truck design they use for every environment. It's like saying you're having a hard time maneuvering because you're wearing bomb-defusal gear, when you're not defusing any bombs and you're just wearing it for no reason. Maybe don't make the specialized role vehicle be the one and only standard for your country, when it doesn't apply 95% of the time. But hey, it's your tax dollars to waste.
I checked the video and couldn't figure out wheter the EU the EU fire truck there was 4x4, but as far as I know (and I've just checked to be sure), pretty much all fire trucks here (in Czechia) are 4x4 or 6x6.
@@Damorann4 wheel drive is usef in cities and suburbs too. Do you think fire trucks only drive on dry smooth roads? 4 wheel drive works for icy roads too. Please look up Mutual aid. City fire trucks go out to country fires all the time.
I watched this because I felt somewhat triggered by the title, then realized that was probably a good indication I was about to put myself into an echo chamber and should at least hear the opposition before I did so . Very glad I did. I worked in news for 3.5 years. While that did nothing to endear police to me, it did give me huge respect for firefighters. I live in Washington state, and the fires every year have been tremendous. Washington DNR has gone to great lengths restructuring wildfire responses and off-season preparations to increase fire readiness, and it honestly shows. I don't want to speak too soon, because we're super dry this year and fire season is expected to last through October, but this is the first year I can remember in nearly a decade where we haven't had a week of not seeing the sun due to wildfire smoke. Our state is brimming with fuel, but they've done an amazing job responding quickly. The first wildfire with DNR response in the area we had this year was back in March, but my coworker thought the nearby fire in July was the first. I explained no, there have been dozens, they just literally haven't been newsworthy due to the quick and efficient responses. The city responses are also incredibly effective. When I was in news, part of my job was listening for breaking on the scanner. We had so many house and commercial structure fires. Yes, firefighters responded primarily to medical calls, but there was a confirmed structure fire almost every day, usually more than one. But I rarely said anything because almost every fire is out within 10 minutes from the time of the call. They're incredibly efficient. A look at the state's firefighter response from 2022 (I didn't check for 2023, sorry) shows nearly 31,000 fire responses, resulting in 81 deaths and nearly $330 million in property damage. It accounts for only 3.2 percent of all responses, but when fires happen, I know very well how important it is to have the resources to respond quickly. Also, my room caught fire when I was in high school, and they were very nice to me after they ruled out arson. Lol. All that to say, I am aware of my biases, and the massive respect I have for firefighters made me resistant to hearing criticism. However, I found your points not only credible, but also reasonable. When looking at the broader issue of street design, at the laundry list of flaws in American roadways, and at comparable vehicles elsewhere in the world, it is very clear our emergency vehicles do need modification. I can also vouch for the extensive number of times emergency vehicles had to find alternate routes or hike across rural properties because there was no access for vehicles of that size. And given how much of an issue wildfires have been lately, which are often sparked by farm equipment, more compact engines with easier maneuverability make sense. It is more sensible to modify the vehicles than it is to keep widening the streets. I wonder if this issue could be raised to the IAFF. As an international union, they are less concerned with catering exclusively to American sensibilities, and they take firefighter safety very seriously. They have encouraged districts to phase out all gear with PFAS in it and established safety protocols for stations unable to purchase new gear. Given how many emergency workers are killed on the way to a scene or at a scene due to traffic accidents, I believe this is something they would consider looking into.... 🤔
Read this despite the length. Was not expecting you to point out that many rural roads are not wide enough for the giant fire trucks used in North America. And the implications that city fire trucks may need to push into rural areas more often due to global warming.
What’s with being triggered? A film about something you might disagree with could trigger you? Trigger you to what? Not have control over your emotional reaction?
@@jamesphillips2285 You do realize there is more than just type 1 and type 2 engines. Most rural fire departments have a type 5 or type 6 engine, which are heavy duty pick up trucks with a small capacity water tank and 50 gal/min water pumps, and support 1 inch and 1 and a half inch hoses. They may also have a type 3 or type 4 engine, which are commonly used by the Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management, and state DNR for wild land fire responses and can some very nasty terrain.
George Carlin said, "Some people see the glass half full, others see the glass half empty. I see a glass that is twice as big as it needs to be!" Perhaps he would say the same about American fire trucks?
If they are a fire department with an ambulance, typically, about 80% of their calls are literally just regular EMS calls. Not car crashes. Not burning buildings. Ambulance work.
Roundabouts are actually nice when it comes to letting an emergency vehicle pass you. You just have to do an extra turn around the roundabout, problem solved.
If you don't lay mines, build fort, or dig deep pit in the center - you can also drive over the center if push comes to shove. If damage to shrubbery is worth 20 seconds - you drive over the shrubbery.
@@cocoaswann2095 to be fair, basic human empathy, and consideration for others is SUPPOSED to be taught by your elders... It's just that people have lost that key skill over the last 50 or so years in much of the US. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't need a written test to teach you how to act when you see someone needing priority over yourself.
I am German and we also respond to medical emergencies. we do that with a small sized minivan. It's much faster than our truck, and we still have the truck available in case we need it.
Well, also remember that fire departments are mostly there for property protection. 🏦🤴💲🗽 So that's funded on the public dollar, while medical is privatized and not supplied as much, despite the fact medical emergencies happening more often and actually being people's lives instead of stuff.
@@semurobo What if you get another type of call on the way back from the medical call, do you have to return to the station to retrieve the other truck?
@@firewrx612 Yes. We are a voluntary fire department so we will usually still have people available who didn't respond to the medical call. sometimes it's faster to get back to get our truck, sometimes it's more useful to directly get to the other call and meet our truck there. But even if, the way back is like 5 minutes drive at most, with sirens blaring it's maybe 3 minutes.
You guys ever been stuck in traffic when an emergency vehicle rolls up behind you? No room to pull off to the side, you can't drive forward because you would be doing that already if you could, so all you can do is sit there and shrug. If you are on foot or on a bike, there's always space, even if you have to step into a ditch. In a car though? What are you supposed to do when you're penned in on all sides? I seriously hate that logic of "that's a different environment" or "they have a different culture." I get that BS from my dad all the time but he can never substantiate that claim. Even in the rare cases where he _can_ list a difference between two cultures that has produced the different end result, the minute I press on "why _can't_ we change that?" he just kind of shrugs and changes the topic. Its essentialist garbage that makes the implication that things are the way they are for some nebulous unchangable reason, and thus we should not even bother. There are certainly cultural differences between places and those cultural differences can be rather hard to change, but they can still be changed. There is no intrinsic reason why American cars have to be as big as they are. We could change it tomorrow if we just had the will to do so.
Traffic death far outweigh fire death and even murder in almost all US cities. If the focus is on public safety then mitigating car deaths needs to be a top priority.
thats why every summer mysterious fires always seem to start at the poerfect places during perfect conditions that require many different counties of fire depts to show up to battle the blaze
Survivorship bias here; fires cause a lot less death *because* we have fire departments. Back before we had them, whole cities could burn down from even a single fire. The point here isn't that fire departments aren't important; it's that they don't actually need trucks so big that they necessitate dangerous road designs.
I'm a wildland fire fighter. We use relatively small, highly maneuverable engines. I've often wondered what's up with urban fire departments and the huge unwieldy vehicles going on every call. It's totally unnecessary. I had no idea the effects they have on street layout and such. Interesting video.
I believe it is because you wildland guys do not have to operate with extrication equipment, medical gear, ladders, large diameter hoses, and all the extra gear most structure guys carry. That is if we are talking about anything over a type 3 rig ofc.
@@TheGrundigg lmaoooo, it's like they are PURPOSELY OBTUSE. I always chuckle when I peruse the comment section and some bloke is making a point THAT WAS ALREADY DISCREDITED in the video. Just LOL.
here in europe the wildland trucks are about the same size as urban/habitational area ones if a bit larger due to the offroad-capable tires and suspension, sometimes you'll even see adapted unimogs used for this, they'll get damn near anywhere so long as a cliff or massive tree isn't in the way
98% of the time an American comments about why European city planning is not going to work compared to the US version... they come up with some problem that we solved literally decades ago. WE ALREADY DID THE HOMEWORK BRO JUST COPY IT FFS 😂
I work at the fire department in Amsterdam, and it's funny to see that at 3:32, that's exactly my fire truck (Victor, Amsterdam oost) Haha. We do a lot of rescue work to assist the medical teams, but we really need smaller emergency vehicles for the narrow streets of Amsterdam. Unlike the police and ambulance services, we don't drive around constantly, but our stations are so well-positioned that we're often the first on the scene. We have specialized fire trucks when we need specific equipment, which is also one of the reasons why our fire trucks can remain small. great video, thx!
and it's a fantastic system of compartmentalized equipment. If you know German, there's a fantastic tv series courtesy of state media called "Feuer und Flamme" (=Fire and Flames) which follows several fire departments around in their daily missions from EMS and saving cats to the once-in-a-decade fires.
@@PhilippBlum there is a channel "Heroes next door" where a firefighter goes around different US fire stations and showcases their buildings and equipment. The funny thing is that almost all equipment compartments in American engines/ trucks are half empty "for the sake of future proofing".
@@solarissv777 in German fire trucks everything has it’s spot and is fixed in place. For me it seemed like in American trucks they just throw it in the compartment. Leaving “no room” after one bag filled the floor of the compartment.
In my city 80% of calls are medical, and only 0.5% are structure fires. A few years ago they added stripped down ambulance services for less-serious calls. Some ambulance calls are for heart attacks and strokes, but many are a broken arm or stitches, which dont need as extensive a response. The less-equipped ambulances are also useful for transporting people between hospitals when they are stable, but can't travel in a normal vehicle. I LOVE the idea of paramedics on motorcycles. I recently learned that casinos are the safest place to have a heart attack outside of hospitals, because they have defib machines everywhere and the casino staff are trained in CPR. Speed is critical to survival!
@@TheAutisticOwl its because they see such high visitation from retirees, some people bounce from casino to casino and cruise ship to cruise ship as their retirement plan instead of a retirement home due to cost. Many cruise ships have a small on board morgue now because of this, and if they dont they carry body bags and stuff them in the freezer next to the Steaks.
We had a medical emergency at our house. Emergency services were called. First, a fire engine showed up. Then an ambulance (which showed up so soon after the fire engine, that the ambulance paramedics were at the patient within 10 seconds of the firefighters, in spite of actually pulling up outside the house nearly two minutes later.) Then a fire department officer/official/someone in a fire department SUV. Then two police cars. Note - the medical situation could have been fully resolved with just the ambulance, or, since no transport was needed, a couple people in a small vehicle with storage for medical supplies. (More than a motorcycle, less than an SUV.) There was absolutely no reason to send five vehicles weighing likely over 40,000 pounds and clogging up my street. Even assuming "more medical than bare minimum" is a good response, a "fire department paramedic on a small vehicle quickly, followed by an ambulance in case transport is needed" would have been fine.
It’s good to have more experienced people to bring ideas to the table for medical services that might be more high stress or haven’t been handled before by all the crew. Crowd control also is a good way to advocate for your patients. And with obesity always rising you will want more people to move incapacitated patients to be transported or for whatever their needs are
@@elliottthurlow954 5 vehicles, and 3 different sevices, is still overkill - ever heard of "too many cooks spoil the broth" - too many people means more distraction for the experts who do know how to solve the problem, and more people getting in the way.
@@valivali8104 I’m not the one to ask or determine if they’re useful or not. But I’m curious if the gear is generally equal across the big NA fire vehicles and the euro/Asian styled ones. I think the video only provided one screenshot to argue that point but I’ll rewatch. Yeah the one anecdotal evidence piece didn’t highlight the 1000 gallon difference between the vehicles so there may be more. Who knows unless you work as a firefighter in both Europe and America
Do you want two people working your loved one's cardiac arrest (ambulance crew) or five (ambulance crew + fire crew)? All the people who responded to your emergency were getting paid. Would you rather have them doing nothing sitting on their behinds in quarters? A crew never knows what they are facing till they see it for themselves. Much better to have too much help then too little. Unneeded units can return to service immediately. Yes, fire trucks are way bigger then necessary (just like pickup trucks and suvs).
This ties perfectly with the truck/SUV mindset in America. Majority of truck/SUV owners buy them for cases that rarely, if ever, happen. They over compensate. This is just the American way. Fixing this will take generations as you need an entire culture shift.
Many European emergency vehicles are starting to be equiped with a newer generation siren generators that add shaped white noise (tactical harmonics) which vastly improves everyone's ability to localize where the siren sounds are coming from. Don't underestimate how dangerous the old sirens can be when you don't know where it's coming from and you suddenly find yourself a foot away from being ran over.
@@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse what countries are you talking about? Classic two tone high low sirens like the German Martinshorn are pretty good to localize compared to everything else like wail, yelp, ...
Its almost laughable how backwards the circular logic on some things is. "Our reaction time may be too slow, because our vehicles are too large, but we can get more space for them by abolishing faster infrastructure for faster vehicles!" Genius ☉ ‿ ⚆
There are exchange programs between police departments in European countries and the US (and maybe Canada). Perhaps an exchange program for fire departments would be an eye opener?
They have done programs like this for years, normally they are done to show EU firefighters how different fires in the US are and how are tactics are different from theirs. There was just not too long ago two Dutch firefighters that rode with Detroit Fire to experience some good ol American firefighting.
@@NotJustBikeswouldn’t be sure even European firefighters totally understand the benefits of our traffic engineering. Understanding stuff is not just different, but better in this way needs deep understanding. Not just pushing differences in material to different tactics and organization. Especially as there are some differences. Like a lot lighter build house leaving firefighter less time in the US. Leading in my understanding to a lot more aggressive tactics.
@@maltekoch1632 You're basically saying European houses are better build being more fire retardant. But it still doesn't explain the size of American fire trucks.
@@addylandzaat8080 abolutley. My idea was just a american fire fighter, would first think they do it different because EU is different. Not because they got a better solution the us. Especially if the benefits are not directly in the emergency services. As well I have heard the same argument from the US in germany as well. As I remember it was more people (some politicans) not liking bike lanes and traffic calming talking like that. Not the fire departments themselfs.
Hello, It’s unfortunately because the battle between a free flowing urban environment blended with competent public transportation and lots of walking/biking infrastructure has lost to suburbanization long ago. In a lot of areas, you NEED to get in your car and drive. To work. To shop. To eat. Etc. The train systems into major cities is also so abysmal that folks who live in a town but work in a major city often choose to drive instead. This traffic blended with those who already live in the city is a bit of a mess. The American transportation system is a decade or two behind modern transportation in other comparable countries. It will take trillions to overhaul and improve enough to the point where people can comfortably elect not to drive so much. Driving used to be more of a leisurely endeavor in a lot of these major cities because you had street cars (train tracks in the middle of the road) and trollies everywhere. You could get about easily. Street cars were destroyed and abandoned in favor of leaning into more vehicles.
I recently had a conversation with a traffic engineer about a 4-to-3 lane conversion in downtown Asheville with unprotected bike lanes. Bike advocates wanted the lanes protected. The traffic engineer asked what to remove from the street cross section to add the buffer. I suggested the center turn lane should be removed. Each time the group addressed her issue with removing the turn lane, there would be a new excuse. In order, she argued: 1. Without a center turn lane, the left turn radius will be wider, allowing turning vehicles to pick up more speed before hitting a pedestrian in the crosswalk, and reducing pedestrian safety. (what an ABSOLUTELY INSANE take) 2. The fire department won’t allow it 3. Not having a center turn lane will create congestion that slows down buses (they are already unusably bad, it’s a typical American small city bus system) 4. MUTCD and AASHTO require a center turn lane 5. It would be politically unpopular with city council to remove the turn lane. And we finally arrived at the real reasons. Taking away space from cars is politically unpopular, and the people who design these streets have no ability to weigh and balance tradeoffs.
@davidparker9676 What kind of weird take is that? Probably more people would feel safe enough to bike (which is good for the environment and climate) if the bike lanes were adequately protected and cars were not politically prioritized for once. It's actually pretty straightforward.
@@davidparker9676 here in Ohio we combined bike lanes on each side of train tracks it helps remove quite allot of traffic since it can be faster than cars and it goes from and through Pennsylvania all the way to Ohio and has been extended and it has safety features it can't be that hard to not design areas to not be deathtraps or inconvenience others that much it's just that people are too car centric or drive to areas that would have taken less time if the just used a different mode of transportation and didn't get stuck in traffic
@@davidparker9676Bro, if I drive a car, I’m gonna take up more space, make traffic and cause more pollution. So yes, you are the weird one for not seeing that. If you are in traffic, you are the traffic.
@@davidparker9676 Oh, the 'common sense' argument... It's not the strongest one. Just look at countries like the Netherlands where biking is so common and integrated into traffic that it's one of the most popular means of transportation. I was not specifically advocating for anything with my comment, I was just pointing out the logical flaws (i.e. that you seem to have confused the symptom and the cause of the problem). It does not HAVE to be that way that you have to decide between cars and bikes, it should be possible to create infrastructure so that people can make the free choice which means of transportation suits them best. You don't have to pitch these two options against each other, that is a false premise. Also, I find it pretty strange that you seem to advocate for primarily (or even exclusively) car-oriented infrastructure and arguing that this is actually pro-climate when the opposite is the case (which is not new info, there are lots of studies about traffic and climate). That is not very 'common sense' of you in my opinion.
@davidparker9676 common sense would tell you smaller more efficiently designed cars combined with smaller roads will mean fewer pedestrian deaths, more people walking and being healthier. Car dependent designed roads/cities are the worst possible idea to have.
My father was a volunteer firefighter in our county's all-volunteer department. They had three vehicles in the garage; one truck-sized truck, one fire engine, and one panel van kitted out to be a useful-in-a-pinch ambulance. Guess which vehicle they took to _every_ call. Yeah, the engine. They might also send the other vehicles, but that engine went out for every maybe-heart-attack call. There were two main reasons; the first was that the engine needed to have miles put on it or it would seem unnecessary. The other, and I shit you not, is that the volunteers loved driving the engine. "Big truck go vroom" applies to a bunch of middle-aged wannabe heroes. I highly doubt there are many departments that lack more appropriate vehicles. Those that do? Let's spend a tiny bit of the savings we yield from road diets on smaller vehicles for them. Maybe paint flames and shark teeth on them so the firemen aren't too bummed out about it.
Wow your father really did fail to raise you considering you just shit all over him and the millions of volunteer firefighters in America and around the world calling them "middle-aged wannabe heroes".
And it’s ALL volunteer?! This is insane! You need professionals and they need to be paid full time. Otherwise there’s no incentive and we can’t rely on volunteers, we just cant
the "big trucks go vroom" argument a good leader can fix with stricter protocol, the "it needs to be used or you loose it" is the bane of every public service. If it is road construction, hospital wings or Fire department inventory, buerocratic budgeting is the worst tool for the job of ensuring availability of social services. not so long ago a volunteer Fire department went on strike/resigned in full because the budgetary needs for new trucks were not met for over 10 years and the department leaders lost confidence in being able to do their jobs, so they resigned and all other volunteers had their backs and went with them. they forced local politics to do something, don´t exactly know what came of it but if politicians can override the basic needs of social services, the system is stupid and will inevitable collapse the effectiveness of what ever it governs to funnel funds into vanity projects or more visible issues.
Literally every "what about" question people use against car free areas can be answered by theme parks. In the case of "what about emergency vehicles [in car free spaces]?", theme parks don't have cars driving through them, but they're still accessible for emergency vehicles. The often have their own emergency AND maintenance vehicles that are variations on golf carts. When you're at human scale, you don't need huge cars and huge streets to drive them on.
In case of a fire at a theme park, a actual fire engine water is often needed. You'll notice that all theme parks that have golf carts for emergency services are used for medical purposes only as that's the extent of their service.
I wouldn't be surprised if the theme park industry was hard lobbying against car-free spaces because people would be less marvelled when entering their theme parks. The car free experience is part of the magic at this point
@@TheGrundigg I'm not against that, it just seems that op is making it seem like all firefighting and medical functions can be made onto one small golf cart is when can't.
As a former volunteer fire fighter in ohio. The majority of our calls to car accidents don't need a pumper. We had a converted ambulance for car wrecks. We bought a Japanese k truck for off road search and rescue
and now many states are banning kei-trucks (or trying to) because the U.S. car industry doesn't want to have to compete against 25-year-old foreign imports
@MatthijsvanDuin Are American trucks incompetent? If people are starting to bug Kei trucks, then it must have something it offers over American brands.
@@bassyey American trucks are gigantic, massively overspec'd because "what if I need to tow my boat one day!" or "what if I need to move a bunch of big heavy stuff one day!", inefficient, and have 4-5 seater cabins instead of the normal 2 seater because they still need to be able to "do it all" (be a family transportation vehicle), and expensive as hell. All for them to be used for nothing but normal transportation the overwhelming majority of time by tons of people who buy them. They're generally bought for the aesthetic of having a big mean truck and not for a real purpose. Also, the manufacturers make way more money off these big ass trucks (and SUVs) due to the way our regulations work, since light trucks are granted exemptions/lower fuel economy standards than cars. The profit margins are just sooooo much higher. Kei trucks are small but still have a normal bed size, the bed height is actually manageable (giant trucks, especially if lifted, make loading stuff a lot harder), they're fuel-efficient, and SIGNIFICANTLY more affordable despite being imported. People who are actually working and need trucks as such enjoy them for their versatility and functionality. You can even convert a regular kei truck into a mobile pop-up shop similar to how one might with a cargo van. It's not like I don't think big, powerful trucks are wholly unnecessary - I do see some people that genuinely use them as intended. But then you see way more people running a giant spotless truck on rubber bands and a permanently empty bed. The overwhelming majority of people who buy a truck for the "what if I need it one day!" scenario would be better off just renting an appropriate vehicle for their decennial real need for a truck, and they'd save a hell of a lot of money. I get that buying a vehicle here can be a pretty emotionally-led decision even if most don't want to admit it, but that's part of why we really need more stringent regulations to stop manufacturers from ballooning our vehicles and convincing us we need them for their profit.
I've decided that the USA is just a giant movie set and everything that happens there happens either because it "looks better on camera" or because "that's what the audience wants". Make this dystopia make sense.
I grew up watching a show called Emergency! about a Los Angeles fire station. The two main characters were paramedics/EMS and they drove a smaller truck (like a modified heavy duty pickup) to all their medical emergencies. They only rolled the big trucks for fires and other disasters. I just thought that was how we did things back in the 1970’s.
That show was about the Nations first Paramedic/EMS unit, which was inspired by *the 1966,* National Academy of Sciences - National Research Council publication of a report titled "Accidental Death and Disability: The Neglected Disease of Modern Society" , which recommends the use of pilot programs to determine the efficacy of providing physician-staffed ambulances for care. In this document, it states (under the heading: Ambulance Services): "Implementation of recent traffic safety legislation to ensure completely *adequate standards for ambulance design,* and construction, for ambulance equipment and supplies, and for the qualifications and supervision of ambulance personnel." Standards that revolved around AMBULANCES, not Fire Trucks. Like _Everything_ obesely Capitalist, Paramedics went from a pickup truck - *_Assisted_* by a local Ambulance, to a full 12,000 pound transport EMT TRUCK ($500,000), assisted by another Fire engine ($1.3 Million). In America, its NEVER about what's good for the people, always Follow the M-O-N-E-Y.
@@mauricemotors8207 The show Emergency! was accurate. It's just that it accurately portrayed the beginning of the paramedic program in the 1970s, which isn't very relevant to today.
"Roundabouts are extremely rare in the US" Jason, you haven't seen the progress we're making in some places. Intersections are being changed to roundabouts all over the midwest where i'm from. I think traffic engineers are figuring it out slowly. It wont happen overnight, but each time they rebuild an intersection, they seem to upgrade it to be more like the Netherlands. In one of my favorite recently redone intersections, they even have the triangles printed on the ground to indicate right of way, skinny traffic calming lanes and proper pedestrian AND bicycle passage, with pedestrian islands. We'll get there.... eventually.
That's beautiful! And we must cheer for every step of progress! I think by far the biggest problem is that each state if not each city has its own rules and regulations. It is hard to get anything consistent like that. So I'm happy for the progress but my god its been way too long of a wait already.
@rocbola i feel like he knows that. Even my parents are catching on to it. This channel is pretty hostile to standard american road culture and would rather bash its opponents than acknowledge any positive changes.
Even down in the South, I live in Florida so I'm not sure about other states. This year, they finished constructing three roundabouts, and for one of them, I even got to see it slowly happen in a couple of months. I was honestly surprised by how fast they constructed that one and even the other ones that I never saw being constructed. On top of this, recently, my town announced that they are going to work with the county for improvements to a road that are going to start and has an estimated completion date of 2026 for two new roundabouts, improvements to the bus stops, bike lanes, traffic calming, and other things like drainage and street lighting. I believe the county has also been working to add/improve bike lanes and even public transit.
American traffic engineer: But what if, hear me out, what if another fire truck came from the opposite direction, sirens blaring, heading to a different emergency? **Adds two more lanes**
Second American traffic engineer: Also, what if, hear me out, this was happening at one of the four-way intesections, and there were two more fire trucks coming from either side, sirens blazing, heading to two more emergencies? *adds an extra four lanes*
I was five years ago elected for a rural German council (Verbandsgemeinde). We serve 11 local councils with 30 fire departments (650 volunteers all in all). For every local area, it is considered which types of danger and tasks are apparent, how high the buildings are, and so on (we have no ambulance service). According to the tasks and local conditions, the local firebrigades are provided their vans (if and when we have the money for them, which unfortunately often lasts many years because we are underfunded). When we get rid of an old fire van and deliver a new, bigger one, we very often have to rebuild the shed/firestation where they are kept. So we try to keep the size down if possible. None of these big American firetrucks are suitable to the steep slopes and narrow roads in our area. I think it should always be considered if the firetrucks fit their purpose. Apparently, this is often not the case.
@NotJustBikes I’m a Firefighter/EMT in the US. I’m also a supporter of your channel and the strong towns organization. I would like to bring a couple things to attention. These are not intended to be counter points, but rather context on why firefighter departments behave the way they do. One issue, which affects volunteer/small town departments more than career departments is that of replacing trucks. Many towns provide bare minimum funding to there departments, leaving it to department members to hold fund raisers to pay for new equipment, new apparatus (Engines, Ladders, Rescues, Ambulances, etc.,) and stations. One of the towns I work in has 1 ambulance that was supposed to be replaced last year, 1 of each Engine, Ladder, and Rescue that are supposed to be replaced this year, and several more to be replaced next year with no plan or action by the town on funding those replacements. Many towns in the area are still operating apparatus built in the 80s. The idea of replacing all these trucks with vehicles that are more sensibly sized is a daunting task for many of these departments because they can’t replace there vehicles at all. Second is the idea of a generalized truck. This often comes in two forms, a rescue-pumper (combination Engine Rescue), or a quint (combination Ladder Engine). Many departments with manpower issues lean towards these trucks that are inherently more massive than a specialized apparatus because there may be times when they can only get one truck out the door. Mutual aid (other fire departments providing apparatus to a neighboring town during an incident) can alleviate this, but many towns try to have some level of self reliance in case that mutual aid doesn’t get out. The last point I would like to mention is behavioral. There is and expression in the fire service that states “Firefighters hate two things, change and the way things are.” Firefighters can be difficult to convince, because our job is life or death, for us and the people we are helping. Many firefighters want change of some variety, but any change is seen as life threatening, so it is a very slow moving process. I would like to reiterate that I am not challenging a move towards people friendly cities, I am giving points of context that may help to keep in mind when convincing a Fire Department to make changes. At the end of the day, firefighters want to help, as such, saving lives and reducing injury and loss of property should remain the primary focus points when approaching the fire service, because that is the only thing that most of us care about, and that basis will be the most likely to change our minds.
I also feel like one do everything apparatus would be cheaper up front then several specialized apparatus. yes with specialized apparatus the cost might be able to be split out more but it is still probably more overall which is an issue. and I feel like while fuel costs might be slightly lower for specialized apparatus that would only be true if only one apparatus responded. the second a second apparatus rolled out the door you would be burning more fuel then a do everything apparatus. and with multiple apparatus you need a bigger building and more maintenance so running costs would be higher. and while my departments second engine is slightly bigger (wider, taller, longer) it is capable of a lot more the the first engine. the first engine is still primary on strict fires and depending on who shows up to drive may go to vehicle fires as well but the other engine does everything else. (and we don't roll an engine on EMS calls though the fire side being fully volunteer is probably part of that). yeah we probably could get by with smaller apparatus especially in cities but our engines don't have much wasted space. also the second engine was fast approaching it's weight limit even before they put some of the last gear on it so it's probably overweight
As a disabled person in the UK, I've had many ambulance calls in my time. I mention this because I know now that fire departments would likely be the ones responding in some of those cases over in the US. Something we have here are paramedics who just drive regular cars to medical issues, fitted out with enough first aid supplies to tackle most cases. medical triage, oxgyen cannisters, etc. In many cases, the emergency call centre acts as a triage, and determines who needs to respond. To simpler cases, it's more cost effective to deploy one paramedic in a car who can either resolve the issue or escalate further. That's good for two reasons - you can buy and outfit a regular car for WAY less money than you can an ambulance/fire truck, and also the operating costs of that one car are significantly less too. If fire departments could send a more economical vehicle to some emergencies, wouldn't that also help with the budget limitations by bringing down the overhead expenses you have, and freeing up funding down the line for upgrading the larger vehicles?
To your point on the combination engines being a lot bigger. In the UK we have Rescue and Heavy Rescue Pumpers. We also have ALPs which are the same as your quint in ladder length and equipment but smaller. The only issue I would foresee in your rural settings is water capacity, though I suppose if you were able to have a combination engine a much cheaper tanker pumper would also be an option in these areas.
This is some good context. It would be useful if city fire departments could lead the charge on switching to smaller trucks, which in turn would free up newer (but still large) firetrucks for rural volunteer posts
In Germany there is something called the BO-Kraftkreis. It is a circle with an outer radius of 12,50 m and an inner radius of 5 m, meaning it's 7,50 m wide. Every vehicle on the streets has to be able to go around 360 Degrees in this circle without touching either the inner or outer boundary. It's not like we don't have huge trucks in Germany. Generally, German trucks weigh more than their US counterparts with 88.000 lbs (40 t) or 97.000 lbs (44 t) as regular maximum weights. This was pretty surprising to me as in the US trucking is so important and roads (and everything else) are way bigger. Thing is though: Every truck, every semi, every 97.000 lbs vehicle fits and maneuvers inside the BO-Kraftkreis with its 12,5 and 5 meter radii.
I was wondering a lot about the absurd length of many US trucks. Look at Rubber Duck's Mack from "Convoy": Long nose (I love the look of them, though), huge sleeper cabin, two meters of thin air, the (long and thin) trailer sits on the very end of the tractor unit and the trailer axles atthe very end of the trailer. I was told (by an actual US trucker) that they need to spread their weight over a certain length of road not to overload bridges.
@@marcisdzerve9558 yes and no, we beat them on passenger rail with a margin, but the US hands us our asses when it comes to freight. Even on some major freight corridors, like along the Rhine, most trains won't exceed 600 m, 800 m is a very long train, and over that is probably a record attempt or something. US freight trains are often a mile or longer, double-stacked, and running at speeds of up to 79 mph, or about 127 km/h. A 100 km/h freight train is an express service, rarely do they exceed that.
You know what's better than a firetruck using bike lanes? If there was a space on the road dedicated for big, wide, boxy vehicles, that can carry like 50 people at once, but also run on a regular schedule, so they'll never be too busy for a firetruck to use them. Someone should really invent something like that.
My thought when those fire engines were going down those bike paths is the insane wear and tear on the bike path. Use something designed for heavy vehicles instead of tearing up the only good thing cyclists have going for them. All those driving lanes and not ONE for bus/emergency use only? come tf on.
I was a firefighter for 6 years in rural New York, left due to ideological differences with like 95% of the department (take a guess) and am now in technology. I couldn't agree more about the issues you raised here, we literally would respond to 99.9% of calls in our engine first, a massive Pierce fire engine that was a swiss army knife of gear but we rarely ever needed it all, and there were entire drawers of the engine we wouldn't even dream of utilizing on whatever call we were going on at the time, when we got our rescue (dedicated vehicle for car accidents) we got it the same size as the rest of our trucks and honestly struggled to fill the drawers with gear, 100% can size down. I love your videos and they (among other TH-camrs) have contributed a *lot* to my now heavily progressive mindset, so thanks. But it's refreshing to hear a video on a topic that I'm probably more familiar with than the creator, and the creator still nails every point and doesn't misrepresent anything, it's reassuring to know for sure you put a lot of care and effort into your research.
It is infuriating how the US is such an amazing country in terms of natural resources and geography for security and trade and they wasted it all by being completely fkn idiots. If any other nation was put in charge of the US they would be ruling the world within five years.
I run a fire district in a Colorado moutain town. This argument is reasonable and we have worked with municipal planners in the 3 jurisdictions we cover on better street design standards, however, there is a lack of published material to use as an alternative to the existing codes. Would be very excited to follow Scott Brody's work as we want to be a better partner on this and frankly, traffic circles are just fine..;)
I'm from Germany. House 50 m away burned. Saw fire out of one window. I and some random dude ringed all the doorbells, up the stairs, knocked. From inside you didn't see anything until you got to the top of the stairs , ceiling black, apartment a black hole. No smoke visible no fire visible. Yelled inside. Thankfully no reason to get in there. Confused man refused to leave. Talked. Then Police arrived so we left. Fire department took a lil longer. Which leads me to think motorcycle firefighter could be a good idea in some cases? Definitely fastest. If there had been reason to run into that black hole you'd want a guy in firefighter gear not a policeman. I assume the gear doubles well enough as protective gear except the helmet. Stuff you can get on a motorcycle wouldn't put out much of anything but it can carry breathing stuff , an axe, maybe one or two extinguishers. I know manufacturers have ideas about that too, BMW I think. I assume they always like to present that stuff the same way arms manufacturers present their new gun to the military
As a teacher in the public schools in the USA, it’s not surprising how firefighters get away with snarky put-downs that don’t have truth to them. They've shown they can’t critique safe road development with arguments based on facts. Worse, they use their position in society to back up crazy thoughts about the need for gigantic roads and vehicles instead of arguing from basic facts. The bad roads and the whole bad network in the USA and Canada will take time to change, but we must use facts. Firefighters must be called out for not having, or not using, basic knowledge. Thanks for building up the case against them by using expert knowledge to put out their firehose of wrong ideas. What they’ve been doing is typical bully behavior. They should be called out for it. Great job!
Shouldn't fire departments be fighting against suburbia designs as it increases response times? The inconsistency makes me think they have other motives.
I'll only say it once: the physics of fire haven't changed (though new materials do indeed burn faster), yet every 5-10 years there is a new concept on how to fight fire. I've seen it all: First there is the academic who has never seen fire and tells me I can use 50L of spray water to take all the energy out of the fire; then the veteran that tells me based on his fires from the 80s that you should flood the house; then comes the guy who loves action and tells me I should open the bail once and multitask; then the lazy one who takes the smallest hose and stays in one place and so on. I'm a firefighter in Germany and I do believe most guys don't know anything about their trade. Even actual experts seem to disagree on basic stuff...
rebrand the "bike lane" to "emergency lanes" say that no other vehicle can use, and if it's not in use, bike can use that too. I assure you that they will have a hard time to understand and counter argument against it 😂
Fireman here, here in the Netherlands all fire trucks are also equipped for all purposes but only for the basic incidents (95% of the incidents), if the incident is/getting bigger or need special or bigger equipment from the start they will send a specialist unit for the type of incident. Also funny to mention, on 16:55 there is a fire station around the corner and the regional dispatch for police, ambulance and fire service is the building on the left.
Just curious, are the fire department and ambulance service separate entities in the Netherlands? Also, are they privately owned or run by the government?
@@ConnorDuffy.They are separate, all receive funding from the government (possibly local, idk), and all get called in for whatever they're applicable to by the national organisers. (To not send a bigass truck when a little van or even a motorcycle would have sufficed and was possibly closer) So they're all (technically) government AFAIK. There are separate phone numbers for each (local) department, but that's mostly outside of an emergency. When you don't care if they arrive in 10 mins or 10 hours.
@@sirjmoAmbulances are private (hospital corporations f.i.) or from a government organization, like fire brigade. They are financed by the national coordinator of the health insurance companies, we have mandatory health insurance overhere. The fire brigade is financed by the national and municipal governments and is organized by safety regions (Veiligheidsregio’s), in my region it coincides with the province, which is not always the case. In my town we have a fire station but not an ambulance station. An ambulance has a bigger area to cover, so the ambulance station (with only one ambulance) is more central located. For our town, the ambulance station is two towns further. When this ambulance is called to an emergency, all ambulances of the adjacent ambulance areas (of our safety region) are relocated (leave their station and park at a new temporary central location) to cover our area, so response times stay within legal limits.
FF/EMT here from the US here. I’ve always wondered about your hydrants and lay-ins? Do you ever have a far stretch, plus 150m? How much water can you flow on one and can it support multiple apparatus?
Former fulltime firefighter here. Unsurprisingly, there's a huge machismo thing in the fire service and many rural departments are conservative good ole boys type of clubs of volunteers. Any sort of change or break from tradition is super duper frowned upon and hated in most of these places. Departments can vary drastically, but many US firefighters are simply and stubbornly not open to new things. No modern "euro helmets", smaller trucks, etc etc
Man, nothing was more frustrating when designing low-income housing developments and townhouse complexes than making EVERY SINGLE PAVED SECTION "firetruck turnaround compliant".
The ladders thing is particularly hilarious for the US, with it's missing middle. Buildings are all either tall enough that the ladders can't get to the top anyway, or small enough that they are not needed. The exact type of building ladders are optimal for are not present.
@@mojrimibnharb4584 trust me no firefighter or EMT wants to see more people get hurt and no city is purposely designing their streets to boost fire calls... there is no incentive for having more people hurt in a city for the city
My mom died recently at my neighbor's house (long story), and the requirement is to first call 911. They sent the police, and ems and a full aize firetruck. Btw, the fire station is about 6 blocks away. I mean, she was already dead, they could have walked over. SMH. Also my kids school is next to the same fire station and they routinely speed up and down the street. And a few times a year there is a bike to school day on which the kids ride 2 blocks on that street so the fire department pulls a truck out to block the street for safety. They are also the reason why the city can't install traffic calming on that street so kids could safely ride bikes to school. Its a total mess. Thanks for the video and im glad im not the only person who sees the absurdity here.
@@Jehty_ Did you ever carry a 300 lbs person down a hundred year old staircase? EMS isn't just medical treatment. You have to move the patient. You don't know what you are facing till you see it! Better to have too much help than too little. I was sent on a burn victim call and the caller failed to mention the burning couch in the basement.
The footage of the firefighters complaining about bike lanes, while it was parked cars creating the real trouble was a good example of someone being so close to seeing the problem but falling short. They were so close!
I wasn't even aware of this... this is ridiculous. How can North America go so wrong in literally anything infrastructure-related? Also, I love how you showed EMS vehicles using bike lanes, tramways, etc., because it just makes sense for them to use these ways to reduce response times. I see this happening all the time here in Germany, and I can think of many places where EMS response time is DRASTICALLY reduced because the vehicles can just hop on a tram lane and completely skip traffic queues. Let's hope NA catches on some day.
Gothenburg, Sweden has some great examples too. I visited there in June this year and I saw many emergency vehicles driving in the tram and bus lanes without interrupting the transit service at all.
"How can North America go so wrong in literally anything infrastructure-related?" Besides the corruption that others mentioned in their replies, another major factor is racism. For example, a lot of opposition to public transit expansion comes from people living in areas getting the expansion for fear that *those people* will now be able to get to their neighborhood. The idea of traveling around without a metal box around you, potentially putting you in contact with *those people*, creates a lot of people who believe that using existing public transit or creating a walkable or bikeable neighborhood is unthinkable. Universal government-paid health care (which would reduce the fire departments' need to respond to medical problems) polls pretty well, until racist folks realize that *those people* will now be able to get free or cheaper health care too.
American here, it's a fool's errand to think any of our states' governments will catch on. Can't recall any time I've seen better infrastructure go through in the states I've lived in and I've sadly lived here all my life.
If I had a dollar for every time someone I knew was hit by an emergency vehicle, I'd have somewhere between 5 and 10 dollars, which doesn't sound like much, BUT WHY THE HELL ARE EMERGENCY VEHICLES HITTING SO MANY PEDESTRIANS?!
You probably didn't watch the video because emergency vehicles being directly involved into accidents (pedestrians or cars) was never mentionned in it. Also I'm skeptical that you personally know 10 different people that were hit by emergency vehicles as pedestrians. They are pretty loud.
When it comes to the continued senseless death on roads due to bad design, you've got to get mad. You've got to say, "I'm a human being, goddamn it. My life has value."
I work for a city fire department and I agree with you. Widen bicycle lanes so that first responders can use them when dispatched to life threatening emergencies. Make use of smaller apparatus with better maneuverability and similar capability. Enable fire departments to hire more EMTs without requiring them to be firefighters, then have them operate in aid cars (ambulances) for solely EMS response. Fire departments are often stuck in our ways because we often say yes to take on more responsibilities that no other local government agency wants to take on. We are problem solvers, but sometimes the problem is beyond the department and is more on lack of infrastructure.
the thing with roundabouts: if you're in a roundabout and there are emergency vehicles behind you: JUST DO ANOTHER ROUND IN THE ROUNDABOUT, DONT STOP IN THE ROUNDABOUT if they're after you, you'll notice
I wanted to yell at the screen at the footage from the fire department showing their difficulties getting through "narrow" streets. It's the parked cars! It's those cars parked either side of the street! Can't you *see* them?! They're not boulders, or some other kind of natural phenomenon you just have to work around. They're cars! They don't have to be there. Gah! The street is not narrow, it's obstructed by *parked cars!* Okay, calm down, calm down. But, yeah what is this apparent inability to see parked cars? Like drivers complaining about a cyclist slowing them down, when the only reason the cyclist is out in the middle of the lane is because there are parked cars at the side of the road.
![Would You Fall for It? [ST08]](/img/n.gif)
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Visit Turkey sometime. Roundabouts fucking suck when people do not know how to use them. Roundabouts improving traffic flow everywhere around the world is false. And will not be true. It works in Europe because people know how to use them correctly, and their laws are pretty strict about it. In Turkey no one uses them correctly. People who are on the main road assume they have right of way. They had to install fucking traffic lights on roundabouts here because of this. And this has been to the detriment of traffic flow.
Also to tack onto this. For me to get to the city center where I live on foot or on a bike. It would take me 1-2 hours. For me to take a bus from here. I would HAVE TO take the 2 buses that come here in the morning, and in the evening. The ONLY sufficient solution is a car. You act like people literally dont exist outside of city centers in smaller cities. The car takes me 15-20 minutes even with the fucked up traffic Turkey has. Just because walking cities work in bigger metropolises it doesn't mean they ALWAYS are the solution. You make the same mistake that every car centric city planner does by always saying cars are the issue. When over where I am it is usually the public transport slowing the traffic of normal cars down, and or ironically terribly implemented roundabouts that people do NOT know how to use.
@@NotJustBikes Well, that video sure was a hot take
Shouldn't fire departments be fighting against suburbia designs as it increases response times? The inconsistency makes me think they have other motives.
@@NotJustBikes can I just say thanks for publishing this on TH-cam. I originally watched it on Nebula, but you can't leave comments on Nebula.
Also on Nebula I have to keep subscribing to your channel as Nebula goes out of it's way to make unsubscribing by accident easy to happen.
I have complained repeatedly about this Nebula, but I guess I have cooked my goose, since I got a lifetime subscription. So I can't claim, I will walk away because they already have my money.
As a FF, I actually did a presentation and paper about this while working on my degree. I argued for "sprint cars" to respond to medical calls not requiring a fire engine or rescue response. Since then my department has actually implemented the program to much success.
I just suggested this on another comment. "Sprint vehicle" is good branding!
I’m if you also invested in any motor bikes or what you found in your research regarding bikes vs four wheelers?
the fire SUV!
@seanjohnson3291 this is what the volunteer fire department tends to use in my jurisdiction of additional units are needed for EMS calls.
@Whiskey11Gaming it's the smart way to go. Less fuel burn, lower driving requirements
This video just triggered a childhood memory I have of a picture book where a tiny fire truck who got bullied by the other trucks was able to save the day because he was the only one small enough to fit into the street where the fire was happening.
@@IBeforeAExceptAfterK Your comment triggered an oddly similar memory too! I sadly don't recall the story or its name, but it definitely involved a fire truck getting bullied by a larger and newer one - which country is your book from? Do you recall the name of the story?
Solution: put child books in fire departments
Is it Jimmy, the Little Red Firetruck?
I also have it. I think it was one of those old living vehicles cartoons, maybe Warner Bros. I think the fire truck was a child or something.
smol ftw
I blame the high rate of using the fire dept. for EMS calls on the privitization of ambulance services. I have _never_ understood why ambulances aren’t a public emergency service like the fire and police departments.
💰
But yeah, I decided not to get into it in this video, but this is a symptom of the broken healthcare system in the US.
Because _medical_ has nearly always been private. And I have no idea why that, either.
@@AnonymousFreakYT Fire departments used to be private, for-profit services, too, so that's clearly not an excuse.
@@Coffeepanda294 “Used to be” is the key. Medical still is. But fire switched to public long ago. Medical has stayed private.
@@AnonymousFreakYT Yes?
"Whopping 64% of all fire department calls were EMS/Rescue"
This explains FireDepartmentChronicles
@@albinoasesino I noticed the chart didn’t specify motor vehicle accidents which means that is probably lumped in with rescue. Our volunteer department mostly get calls for that more than anything else. A lot of paid dept you also need to be an EMT.
@@_just_browsing_At 14:40, "5.3% of all emergencies"
My father once told me about a change a volunteer fire dept he was part of as a National Park Ranger back in (probably) the 1980s. Before they only responded with fire engines/fire trucks to calls that requested/required that response. Then, to make the argument for more funding (equipment replacement/upgrades) they shifted to rolling fire engines/firetrucks/EMS to EVERY accident/medical issue/etc. This increased the "Utilization" on the equipment and made it easier to justify budget increases. Allowing the fire department to buy more or new equipment, hire more people (potentially turning the volunteer department into professional), get better training.
So, at least some places, I bet that's why the bulk of fire truck/fire engine responses are for non-fire incidents.
@@albinoasesino when I worked in EMS it was for a fire department. I went on 90% of the shift calls yet was paid less than those who were firefighters. Also firefighters who sign up to primarily fight fires usually make poor medical providers.
literally thought the same. that guy's reels are all about medical emergencies, not fires
As a former paramedic I can confirm, the number one thing that keeps us from getting to emergencies in a timely manner is the traffic and the inattentive or just plain rude drivers who will not clear a path for the emergency vehicles.
Why not punish those who don’t move by adding strategic dashcam to catch the plate and face of those who don’t move. Selfish drivers will be emboldened to continue not yielding right of way to emergency vehicles until you make it painful to do so.
@@ApexClubRacer Yea, you could give fines for that. It is illegal and, more importantly, dangerous. But like with most car problems, environment has way more impact than more than consequences.
For ex, a narrow road will discourage speeding much better than a wide road with speed cameras. Here, traffic congestion will always create inattentive and rude drivers, even with fines.
I'm British and have been stuck on jammed roads when emergency vehicles have come onto the congested roads.
We will move our cars somehow. People will scrape paint if they have to, I've seen it a few times as people clear a path for blue light vehicles.
It's drilled into you from day 1 on the roads: *do not get in the way of emergency services*, and if you do, prepare to be shamed for it for the rest of your life.
It boggles the mind that anyone would be selfish enough to not make way for fire engines or ambulances.
@@ApexClubRacer That is just creating more paperwork to solve a problem that doesn't have to exist to begin with. Buiod infrastructure up o proper standards and that issue fades away much easier and permanently. Otherwise your busy writing tickets annd force cars out of the way since there will always be a moron not paying attention.
I live in the US and the sheer level of blatant 'I don't care!' has gotten worse.
I watched something recently that blew my mind. A car caught fire on a highway and there were no exits within a mile. Traffic stopped. So, of course, a car with people in a hurry decided to take to the median. Never mind the car on fire that was shoved to said median. They stopped, lowered their window and yelled at the car fire to get out of the way.
Maybe I am just old, silly or stupid, but I don't think fire cares about how much of a hurry you are in.
Emergency services don't need respect, personnel, funding, training or anything else, but THEY HAVE TO SAVE LIVES ANYWAY?
*facepalm
Another thing about Roundabouts: in Britain you often see roundabouts whose central structure is a gentle mound painted a bright colour. This allows all sorts of less manoeuvrable vehicles to drive over the centre if they really need to, but still provides a traffic directing speed bump to normal sized vehicles
mini-roundabouts!
they slow down regular traffic, but larger vehicles can drive over the roundabout where they wouldnt otherwise be able to follow the roundabout
Unfortunately, here in the US if somebody saw firetrucks or ambulance or police doing that they would probably figured they could do that too. 😕
@@bonniegaither3994 that's where you put your overzealous cops and their arrest quotas, then. The Ontario police figured that one out in the 1970s.
There's one Highway in Hastings, Minnesota that has mini-roundabouts. They have a flat center pad so trucks can turn.
@@bonniegaither3994 given how those drivers on the highway didnt know that "siren behind me" means "clear a passage" i would genuinely not be surprised... like... those sirens usually can be heard from ways away, so you should have plenty of time to make way in the middle of the road (on multilane roads its much easier to clear the middle than have everything move in the same direction - just head to the sides of the road as much as possible and the resulting space will be enough, even if it isnt a full lane)
in fact here you have to already clear a path when getting into a traffic jam, no matter whether a siren can be heard, because its hard to get out of the way in time when not in motion
As a former US firefighter and urban reform advocate, I have been waiting for this video for a while, glad someone with a platform said what needed saying.
As a firefighter I was statistically more likely to be killed by being hit by a car, while working a car accident, than I was to be killed fighting fire.
Can confirm, cars are the biggest thing that got In my way while driving a fire truck or ambulance.
I know that not only for firefighters, but for ANYONE directing traffic or working in the street it is very dangerous. I am always cautious when there are construction signs, and even though the fines are doubled in such zones, NO ONE in American seems to slow down. I have had so many drivers behind me tailgate and become upset when I mind the lower speed limit because I am thinking of the safety of those on the road. Its very sad that a momentary inconvenience is seen as such an issue when it could save a life.
I'm also a former full timer urban FF, and many firefighters are super duper stubborn to any changes or break from tradition too, even if it is all just good.
@@---jt5wg A significant construction zone should have a police presence to enforce traffic violations. Failure to enforce violations is routine, so violations are routine.
@@Zraknul maybe construction zones with lower speed limits should have temporary speed cameras.
I asked a fireman friend about this 20 years ago after witnessing the response to my neighbor's broken ankle call (2 police cars, EMS rig, 2 fire engines, private ambulance). He answered without pause, "It's all about money. The more documented calls for service, the more firefighters and equipment sent to the scene, the easier it is to make the case for larger budgets, staff, and equipment purchases."
It's not so much getting larger budgets, it's maintaining your existing budget.The problem is this specialized equipment may not be needed often to do what it's designed primarily to do, but when you need it, you need it right now, so you have to maintain it, train people to use it, and so on, and that all costs. If the people maintaining the budgets don't see it being used, even for things it isn't primarily meant for, guess what gets slashed in the next budget?
I've seen this in my city. We spend 2400/person/year on police. And have little to no funding to reduce poverty, the #1 driver of crime
Maybe we should relax with making emergency services have to constantly financially justify their existence.
The real bitch of it is that he's right. Take a look at the wildfire services in the pacific northwest - brutally under-resourced and constantly having their budgets slashed and now they can't keep up. Politicians have the attention span of a Jacl-Russel Terrier, if it isn't being used RIGHT NOW then it's game to be taken away and spent on something that will buy votes.
Ah, the classic american, if you don't use the full budget, then you lose it the next year.
So dumb how its argued "Oh well, since you SAVED money for us last year, then it looks like you won't NEED it next year, huh?"
One of the most insane sentences for me was "cars need to be able to pass Firetrucks When they are used." as an European firefighter the first thing we do on all streets except highways is to block the whole street, because we are going to rub around the cars and are going to run waterlines all over the road. You will never have enough water on your truck. In case of a real fire the first thing everyone does. exept for the Attack team is to get more water from hydrants.
My jaw actually dropped open when he said that. Really, how are do US drivers EXPECT that?!
Simply turn back & chose another route. Should be way easier in US cities due to that weird block grid...
I think it's because 96% of truck uses are not fire so they don't want to block the street if they don't need to? Like if an ambulance park somewhere, they won't block the road.
@@moon-moth1car drivers aren’t sacred, car companies are
@@moon-moth1they like to screw car owners almost as much as the rest of the people, not as much just so they buy cars
@@andrew66862 thats a major skill issue
"A woman having a heart attack does not require 1,000 gallons of water"
I mean you gotta make sure she's hydrated
It is a requirement for almost every career firefighter to be an emt and many career departments push their personnel to get paramedic certified or to already be paramedic certified.
@@Pegasus_p12 Does the certification procedure cover how to use those 1000 gallons of water on poor grandma?
This is a
@@Pegasus_p12Every firefighter who gets paramedic training is taking a training place away from someone who would be a dedicated paramedic. Thus leading to a shortage of paramedics. Thus forcing you to send a fire engine to medical emergencies rather than sending an ambulance, paramedic car, or paramedic motorbike. It's a sign of a country whose emergency services are managed in a completely idiotic way.
You don't want to drink from the tank, believe me
As a retired firefighter here in the US, watching this was a real eye-opener. I think back to all the fire trucks I have worked with or driven, and those cabinets are filled with a lot of empty space. From the start of my career in 1987 until today, most calls that come through are medical calls or traffic accidents. We have done such a great job of teaching people how to prevent fires, that we have for the most part put ourselves out of business. I really wish that the departments here took a page out of Europe's and Asia's fire fighting manuals.
It's the thought terminating cliche of "tRaDiTiOn" being a firefighter you know well plenty of occasions where someone has insisted you work harder and not smarter because tradition
As a retired firefighter, you might be able to make a difference on this subject. Maybe you can find a way to contribute?
Don't let the MAGAs hear your constructive criticism based on experience. They will call you an American hater for wanting to emulate Europe/Asia to make things better here 🙄
@@rogerwilco2You know people never listen to their employees. Esp when it's important info! Look at Boeing- lemme tell you, that wasn't for lack of employees trying to tell their bosses when they see a problem. Before the current owners, that was the culture for anyone on any level to speak up when they saw anything wrong, which was why they were so good. Not anymore ☹️
The one and only main reason why American firefighters are resisting getting influenced from outside of the USofA is this: *exceptionalism*
Once you’ve been manipulated 24/7 this way: _"We’re the best country in this World. Period"_
everything else becomes negligible …
As a European this usage of fire engines and trucks for medical emergencies always confused me. Glad to see I'm not crazy
7:00 the point of "emergency vehicles being able to use it for better response times" is even more effective as a defense of dedicated bus lanes because turns out, even the biggest fire trucks are supposed to fit on something meant for buses
Yeah, here in Rio since 2016 the prefecture was building a dedicated bus lane for BRTs (Bus rapid transit) that cross the biggest highway of the city, and the emergency vehicles uses this lane a lot to move quicker during rush hour.
And this week I had a wisdom tooth surgery and got a uber to go home, the uber was slower than the BRTs bcs it got stuck on the traffic, next week I will have another wisdom tooth surgery and I will catch the BRT instead of a Uber, it's cheaper and faster.
Dedicated bus lanes means 12-meter (40 feet) vehicles, or even longer 18-meter (60 feet) bendy buses can operate through them with no problem. So an american fire truck that's around the size of a bus should be able to use them just fine.
Majority of American style fire trucks will fit in bus lanes 🤦🏻♂️. I can also drive one of my fire trucks down a normal sized road. It’s tight fit for my truck, but a department shouldn’t let members who are not comfortable or who are inexperienced driving bigger vehicles drive the fire trucks to calls.
What happens when a bus is already on that bus lane?
Especially for the bus lanes that are separated from the rest of the road?
@@Jehty_ on most systems where emergency vehicles can use the bus lanes, the vehicle can just overtake the bus. Otherwise it will follow behind until it is able to overtake (still quicker than working trough traffic).
My house has been hit by cars three times in the last three years. After the first time it happened, we asked the city for any of a number of improvements to prevent it from happening again. Speed bumps were denied explicitly because the fire department would not okay them.
After the third time, and a scathing local news story about the city’s inaction, the city is finally going to install some speed cushions next month. But only one on each side of the intersection, because of course, the fire department would not allow for more than that.
After the first time I'd install bollards.
@@CrissaKentavrFun fact! The city owns the strip next to the house, so we can’t do that without a permit from the city. Which we applied for after the first time, and the city denied the application. Can’t blame that one on fire departments though.
Consider re-landscaping your yard. Bring in some decorative boulders as defensive blockades. It's on _your_ yard, not the public right of way, after all!
Was your house wearing a helmet?
theres an intersection in my city thats notorious for having people hit the buildings on the corners of it repeatedly. It took almost a dozen incidents of it for the city to finally go as far as installing bollards on the sidewalk and changing the traffic lights to an "opposing traffic moves separately" mode. Now that they've done it, a bunch of motorists are whining about how the traffic lights are causing "traffic mayhem" so it'll probably get reversed and the buildings will go back to being hit by vehicles again.
Rural American here.
I have two things to add to this: A LOT of rural fire departments are actually purchasing imported, retired EU fire trucks, for 'EMS response and vehicle crash' calls. They still have massive water tenders, and some ladder trucks, but they're already moving towards smaller, more nimble vehicles as it is.
Second thing. I JUST got hired as a City Bus driver. Our City busses are so wide that we do actually require a wider lane. However, the easy solution is a narrower bus.
EVerybody likes a wide bus lane. they aren't encouraging speeding.
I don’t know where I heard the comparison but “cars in Europe are built for the roads whereas roads in the US are build for the cars.”
That is a great solution for rural areas. Use big trucks for fires where you don't have easy access to water, and smaller trucks for when you don't need a small pond's worth of water.
@SarraPiyopiyo Yeah, that's what I see in my area, too; in an ironic twist of fate, rural departments often have better sized trucks for city streets, simply because they can't afford massive, custom trucks like the big city fire departments!
This is not ment to be denigrating but I thought our retired trucks were mostly sold or donated to second world countries (Ukraine or South America) or to third world countries, because these countries have no money for new fire trucks. I find it very strange if they were sold to American towns which refuse to tax their citizens in order to finance decent fire trucks. Or is this a normal occurrence?
The funny thing is, the video doesn't even go into the better economics of running a smaller truck. Driving less steel down the road means less wear on the road, better fuel efficiency, and less money repairing. The most important side effect is that your paying for less truck. I've seen numerous local and regional fire depts. have to put up municipal bonds, raise taxes, or crowdfund for a new truck because it's too dang hard to afford one on the normal budget. Less steel generally means less $$$. So if you want to be "Fiscally Conservative" there are clear advantages to smaller trucks that can do the same job.
Also, using a commercial chassis has to be cheaper than a custom one?
Smaller doesn't necessarily mean lighter, though, most countries' firetrucks are just as much filled with gear as their US and Canadian counterparts, just with more efficient use of space, but they can actually have a heavier axle load because of it.
A lesson lost on the police department here (pop: 22K) with their pointless MRAP.
Exactly, There's also no flexibility in big trucks. You either have it or you dont. And once you have it, you're stuck with it and the road and cost implications for the next 30 years. It's not supposed to be a onemanshow, integrate solutions like hydrants and road changes and distribute the individual needs to 2-3 purpose built vehicles.
And another thing, if you drive the said truck to extinguish a fire, to deincarcerate someone, to save someone having a stroke etc.... You will wear down that truck a lot more.
I live next to a fire station in the UK; Ambulances and police cars are common sights around town, with or without sirens blaring, but fire engines are such a rare sight that fully-grown adults will still stop to watch them drive by with childlike wonder. It's baffling to think of them having to respond to every incident an ambulance could've dealt with on it's own instead.
I mean I always wonder what the emergency is when seeing the ambulance and police but because the fire truck is so rare it doubles or even triples my curiousity
My school is next to a road where a lot of ambulances go through with sirens, no one cares about them in the school
yeah, there is a fire station on a main road with a cycle lane on it and when the "STOP" lights are showing i still stop and wait to see the engine
Same here in Germany. You always know it's serious when there are fire trucks
Yeah, I go by a fire station almost every day and I’ve never seen any engine go through.
"We need to accept that drivers can be mildly inconvenienced when there's a serious emergency." Straight to jail.
@@lauren9817 asking for bike lanes? Also straight to jail.
But I need my Starbucks NOW! 👿 /s
Smaller firetrucks, believe it or not, jail, right away.
Underrated comment
Paddling the school canoe? Oh you better believe that’s a paddling.
One thing I've learned in my life is that a lot of people use the argument " this is the way we've always done it" to any change regardless of the positive outlook.
It's the mindset that requires the least critical thinking. A really important aspect for sheep to have.
General exhaustion makes every single problem you can imagine worse. The more exhausted, the worse everything gets. Until you literally die. And the main thing I see when I walk the streets or talk to strangers, is we're all fucking exhausted. Nobody has extra energy to spare for anything and most are sacrificing their health and comfort to meet the demands of modern life.
@@haydentravis3348 shortcuts and thought terminating cliches like the one mentioned by robert are part of how we got here in the first place. People need to suck it up and start sparing the extra bit of energy to think about things so we can fix this mess.
@@BlueOvals24 How on earth would smaller trucks that only respond to fires (instead of everything) raise taxes?
On the other side of it, it is insane to say that doing things the way they have always done it is leading to an INCREASE in issues.
If you have the same roads you've had for decades, how could one make a serious claim that they are making the problem worse, when they were also the same streets in the era when things were getting better?
I'm a firefighter in a large northeast metro fire department, in fact you showed one of our trucks in your B-roll. Those trucks are actually custom made for us and are shorter than standard and have clipped corners and minimal bumpers. I am fully on board with us getting smaller trucks as are many of my colleagues. The problem is European trucks aren't available in the US. Rosebauer used to sell some, but no longer do, and they don't have a stellar quality reputation, so many departments are reluctant to take the plunge.
One of the reasons European trucks can be smaller than American trucks, as mentioned in the video, is that everything is stored in drawers and shelves. When we specced out our (Heavy) Rescue we were given a budget to mount some tools, but it wasn't nearly enough to cover everything, so we have a lot of wasted space. Cost cutting is part of the issue. Although I recognize the fact that European trucks probably start off cheaper since they are smaller and lighter and based on models that are more produced, but then we come back to the issue of availability in the US.
Perhaps the change needs to come from big city mayors. If enough departments demand the smaller vehicles companies will import them or produce smaller vehicles here. But right now, they just aren't available.
Someone else in this comment section was talking about how a lot of rural US fire depts have been buying used European fire trucks. I don’t know how that works, but maybe it’s easier to get those to here?
Someone else in this comment section was talking about how lots of rural fire depts in the US have been buying used European fire trucks. I don’t know how that works, but maybe there’s a partial solution there?
Even in Europe you will wait on your Truck order. They are fitted for the budget and needs of the city. So we plan month or years ahead and order them. The shipping time towards the US is only a fraction of time spent waiting for new equipment.
But you can also build vehicles on readily available freight hardware like delivery trucks. But there needs to be a shift in management, guidelines and public interest first before you can walk towards a supplier and get a vehicle for the new demands.
@@alexandraw6264 yeah, I’ve looked on the site that sells them, none available. Not really practical for us to buy used though, being a city, we’re pretty busy and hard on the trucks. We replace all of ours when they get to 10 years or fewer old.
I think the lack of European style engines is probably down to the same reasoning as the helmets, it has always been this way and we don’t like change.
In regards to not being able to import them, Pierce have started to demo electric engines which the bodies are built in the US, then shipped to Scotland to have the electric drive components fitted then shipped back.
The real reason American fire trucks are so big is to transport all the sexy calendar photoshoot equipment.
@@CultureCompassTV lmao, they are definitely large, but believe me all the space is used for something
No i assure you they are bigger for comfort and ability to hold more tools
@@Simonk_6 The pictures in the video show otherwise. The storage compartments are half empty, for example.
@@stephengray1344 these pictures are pretty egregious, where I volunteer it’s much more full, not as full as the German ones, but much more than the ones in the videos
and the ego of some of the people that make the code.
As an European I did not knew that there is so much emergency services ideas for bike lanes. Last week I firstly had a police car coming hot behind me at a light on the bike lane. And what should I say: Cars didn’t move an inch from hearing the sirens while I turned around, realised what was happening and was out of the way before they even were at the light. Got me a thanks from the police guy :D
I feel like another issue coming up with cars not moving is not being able to hear the sirens. I just... Don't hear them until they're right on top of me, and I'm in an older car!
"an European" 👌
One of the reasons cars are often late to move out of the way of emergency vehicles is that they simply don't hear them. This has been aggravated by a trend that cars are nowadays built with better and better sound insulation, because (and I think this might have been mentioned "once or twice" on this channel) car traffic is LOUD!
Cyclists and pedestrians on the other hand will hear an approaching fire truck, ambulance or police car from miles away.
@@captainchaos3667 Perhaps their first language isn't English? How many languages do you speak?
Their own language may pronounce Europe with a hard E, rather than a soft and phonetically "y"-prefixed E. Think... Uh-ropa & You-rope.
You have to start calling them "Traffic-free lanes" or "public-service lanes" instead of "car-free"
Tell the fire departments that they want traffic free lanes like bus lanes, wide bike lanes and other streets so they have priority access
Calling them "car free" has a visceral reaction from the average driver, changing the phrasing to "traffic free" or "public service" would make it easier to manage and remove on street car parking. While allowing service vehicles like ambulances, fire department, buses, and bicycles to have access to the lanes
@@SplitScreamOFFICIAL Then you will just be adding another name to something that would be fought against by the same people that are against car lanes. Renaming stuff don't work a lot of times.
@@SeinenNinja sometimes it doesn't and sometimes it does. If people have a bad reaction to a specific name, a change can lead to them being more open.
@@SeinenNinja counterpoint: people are emotional and reactive. People will hear traffic free and think "hmm traffic bad, then traffic-free means no traffic. I like no traffic so I like traffic-free"
Not everyone is an urbanist that understands car-free is a good thing or that it means that emergency vehicles aren't blocked from the road.
People do not read more than what they want to..If we made it a a bill all about train, public, and bike infrastructure but called it the "Stop Traffic Act" a majority of the US population would say yes because of the naming rather than the contents of the bill
it should tho be common sense. every building on this planet has to be accessable for emergengy and service even if no traffic is allowed there. shopping streets for exemple also have a time where delivery trucks are allowed in.
Branding! Yes! Need to think about branding! Psychology got us into this mess, psychology can get us out!
I used to be a firefighter in a Swedish small town, during the nineties there was one fairly narrow 2km road that was the only access point to one village. Over time more and more people just parked their cars on this road blocking half of it when they visited somebody living along this route, instead of making their best effort to drive a bit out into the unpaved nature surrounding the road, or park at the pre-arranged guest parking spots every 200m...
Eventually, it was decided by city top guys, that it was needed to stem this reckless behaviour the hard way, so over two years our policy became: stop and honk for 15s if nobody was in or near the vehicle seemingly in the process of getting ready to move to the side - just push that car out of the way. Obviously, we also checked that no kids were in the cars.
The city ended up having to pay the insurance claims since it's considered vandalism to forcefully move a vehicle, emergencies are not a justification. So it did hurt the budget, but after less than ten "wrecked" cars (Usually a dented bumper and paint scratches, but there was a few writeoffs. People got the hint and the problematic behavior disappeared.
If you actually want smaller American fire trucks to happen, the solution is convincing Hasbro execs to make a Transformers anime with Optimus Prime as a Japanese fire truck.
That would honestly make a difference in a couple of decades time, since it would make those trucks look extremely cool and American love of looking cool would make it happen.
we already had him as a fire truck- twice in fact; one in robots in disguise anime and one in transformers animated. The former is made in japan, however his toy does seem to be based on the larger japanese trucks
You are a genius. The long-term marketing on this is incredible.
@@dragotyranniraptorex6460 He was also a fire truck in Transformers: Cybertron
You are most wise - now fix militarism.
In fact, the price, maintenance costs and size of American fire trucks were one of the reasons why my country stopped importing them and started importing European and Asian fire trucks.
Also their weight.
European engines are just lighter.
What country are you from?
Are you from South America?
Yes, I am from South America, more specifically from Colombia.
It's not just about the frequency of the siren; it's also the fact that they only use two distinct tones, either higher or lower in pitch. This design makes it much easier to pinpoint the direction of the sound and determine the speed and distance of the vehicle, whether it's approaching or moving away.
I've watched videos unrelated to fire trucks, where people in the U.S., who've lived there their entire lives, say, "Oh, an emergency vehicle-where's it coming from?" just seconds before it crosses right in front of them at an intersection.
In Germany, I can hear a siren from a minute away, and I'm usually confident it's coming my way, with a good sense of its direction.
Also, on nerd level, one can learn to recognize if it's police, ambulance or fire truck. (Sweden)
Huh. I didn't realize that affected things. I can never tell where the emergency vehicle is approaching from until I see it it one of my mirrors
@@LegPressWhizzer It's called doppler effect. When the siren pitches up and down you can't easily pinpoint if it's coming towards you or if it's driving away from you. With two distinct tones you can easily hear if those two tones are pitching up (then it's coming towards you) or pitching down (then it drives away from you). It's the same with direction: your ears might be pretty close together, but the brain can still easily detect the direction sound is coming from, but when it's constantly changing pitch on it's own it's harder for the brain to differentiate between the doppler effect and the direction the sound is coming from.
This
Fr. Almost tuned over by one cause I dint know where they coming from. I'm naturally slow to take off intersections but even thr confusion makes it hard for people to know how/where to yeild
So I watched this last night, and today I happened to be riding my bike along the beach in Santa Monica (CA, USA). There was a vagrant on one of the benches by a parking lot who looked like he was having some difficulties - maybe he ingested a bit too much of his drug of choice - and a couple of police officers were checking him out. I guess they called the paramedics, because just a few minutes later, guess what showed up? An engine (the one with the water in it), a paramedic ambulance, and - no word of a lie - a freakin' massive articulated ladder truck! The BIG one with the extra steering wheel in the back! There was one guy, no fire, and no highrise buildings within a mile of there.
All the old lush needed was the ambulance.
This week on the "All of America's problems are self-inflicted and rooted in hubris" show
@@davidparker9676 You mean corporate greed? The one that doesn't allow you guys to call ambulances?
@@davidparker9676 Except spoons and forks don't argue for the removal of vegetables and the increase of sugar and fat.
@@davidparker9676 Oh so you're out of flawed arguments I see.
@@davidparker9676 Since you clearly don't understand your own hypothetical - judging by your bewildering response to Sofia's retort - let me break down the hypothetical to expose your error. You started out by saying that blaming fire departments for accidents is like blaming eating utensils for obesity. Let's break down the issue here. Utensils are simply a means for people to consume food. If one over-consumes food or only consumes food of low quality, they are likely to become obese. The utensils used to eat the food have no relation to the actual problem in this scenario, which can be quality, quantity, or both. By way of contrast, we will now examine the relationship between car culture, fire departments, and accidents involving motor vehicles. In this scenario, car culture has influenced fire departments to the point where they are actively supporting policies that are both less efficient for effective emergency responses and less safe for road safety. The difference in these hypotheticals (as Sofia previously laid out) lies in the fact that utensils are not active participants in making obesity an issue, whilst fire departments are ACTIVELY opposing policies that would make roads safer and reduce motor vehicle accidents. The fundamental difference here is the fact that fire departments are active agents while utensils are not.
@@EmpressHel Beautifully explained! Bravo
As a firefighter in the United States, this video is quite accurate of the current situation. One aspect that I don't think was covered enough is another explanation as to why some fire departments respond with an engine/truck to a medical emergency. In order to achieve lower staffing minimums, some departments will staff an engine with 2 people and an ambulance with 2 people. While 2 people staffed in an ambulance isn't out of the ordinary, it is insufficient for medical emergencies that could benefit from more personnel such as CPR or emergencies with multiple non-critical patients. With a shortage of ambulances, requesting another ambulance solely for the personnel is not ideal. Additionally, 2 people in an engine/truck is almost always insufficient for any type of fire incident. As a result, some departments dispatch stations to calls rather than individual apparatus with the expectation that everyone goes. This also allows for more flexibility in the event that another emergency arises during a call. That's one of the reasons many fire department ambulances will have a comportment for turnout gear. To be clear, this is not ideal for the reasons discussed in the video, but it should help explain another reason why fire engines/trucks respond to medical emergencies in many areas of the United States.
Thanks for that context. I figured it ultimately came down to money, one way or the other. Is it reasonable to assume you were talking about an urban/suburban department, not a rural department, where staffing budgets are even smaller?
This is where the German system comes into play. A standard emergency ambulance is normally staffed by a an EMT and a paramedic. Based on the type of emergency the dispatcher will also alert the NEF, loosely translated to Emergency Medic Vehicle which is staffed by an emergency doc and an EMT as a driver. Fire engines will only be alerted if additional help is needed that only firefighters can deal with.
@@papacharlie-niner148 I've only seen this commonly among suburban departments.
@@thewickedwhydah It's common that ambulances are also staffed with an EMT and a paramedic in the United States, and some places have additional response vehicles (non-patient transport) typically for experience paramedics. The benefit of the model I discussed (not that I fully agree with it) is that the personnel are shared both directions, not just that a fire engine is assistance an ambulance.
@@jonathan248 OK, I hear what you say and understand your reasoning. But what happens if there's a fire related incident while the engine is hold up at a medical emergency?
I'm an architect working in the United States, and I cannot tell you how many times I've received project feedback from fire departments saying how am I going to get my vehicle through we need to make these streets wider, it's completely antithetical to the direction when you to move in
Next time tell them to buy smaller fire trucks, like the rest of the world
I’m a mechanical engineer who works with architects on building design. I can confirm the asinine local and state fire access requirements. The state of California’s 20 ft (6 m) access road requirements are considered less objectionable than some of the other requirements. Some of the local fire departments want even wider access roads than what the state requires! LA requires 40 ft (12 m)! Double what the state requires! It’s crazy!
Former firefighter/emt in a major west coast city. I can confirm it's a bit of a racket. This video is accurate. To clarify why engines respond to medical calls even when ambulances, particularly private ambulance, are on scene and do the bulk of care and transport, it's because they can add this response to their tally, which is how they get additional funding.
First rule of design: "If you design something for many diferent roles it would be suboptimal for all of them".
the stroad is the best example
Except for the chef's knife
That may not be true with everything like a computer
That is true about stroads
@@nikolaiivanovich2094 well no that is designed to cut things. As soon as you start incoperating the cheesgrater in that your going to have a problem.
@@xxGreenRoblox
Even computers have different designs for different roles.
You wouldn't find your gaming rig in a data center.
As a volunteer firefighter from germany i have to agree with the intersection part of the video heavily.
I am in a more rural area and we often have mutual-aid type of calls, meaning another department the town over needs aditional recources. Every time we enter an intersection, it is pure pain, people don't see you (because who looks when turning right?), if you approach an urban intersection with multiple lanes and switch the lanes you have to be careful of where the cars move, that people approaching the intersection see you etc. But everytime we get into a roundabout, it is basically just slowing down enough to make sure people see you and then hitting the gas again. Because, at least in my experience, roundabouts have way better visibility.
An advantage of smaller trucks is that you can reach places other trucks can't. Our town has a lot of narrow roads, and also long paths with gardens. So after we got a bigger tanker-type truck for structural fires and forrest fires our next vehicle was a smaller truck to ensure we can get through those small paths to give technical and medical aid without having to worry how to get there, and maybe on bigger structures approach the fire from another side that bigger trucks couldn't reach. And the funny thing about our smaller truck is: we put so much effort into fitting all our gear that we will still have room for plenty more. Because firetrucks constantly grow, that is a fact. There is always new things being added and new equipment we have to deal with and new scenarios we constantly have to be ready for. So we wanted to make sure we dont have to get an expensive rework or even a whole new truck in the next few years simply because potential gear wont fit.
After recent floodings we added new pumps for basements that can pump out shallow water (2mm depth btw, thats pretty good), we will get new hydraulic and technical equipment for car and machine-accidents, as well as new gear for forrest-fires. We still have room for medical equipment, which we currently don't need but potentially will get in the future. So we wanted to ensure everything fits. And we still have plenty of room that we could use more efficiently.
Even on our bigger trucks we constly look for ways to make the space as efficient as possible. Seeing how spacious US-trucks are and how much is not being used is a bit of a pain. My guess is, that those trucks could be about 10-15% smaller right now, if only they'd use them more efficiently. Of course different layouts and trucks would be better, but i am not an expert, just speaking from my own experiences :)
I live in a small dutch city that already existed back in 828 AD, and it's streets were designed for horse drawn carriages and people on foot. There are even some paths so narrow between homes that fat tourists have been known to get stuck... Rather then tearing a 1200+ year old city down, we use smaller firetrucks.
A lot of US fire engines have 4-8 seats in the giant cabs and they are only staff with 3-4 guys max. It is an ego thing to buy a "nicer" or bigger engine even so it negatively effects access to certain scenes.
it's not really visibility, just that you're only avoiding cars from the left moving toward you
US: has way too many cars
US: blames bicycles
Bicyclists do not pay for roads, often do not obey traffic laws and don’t use common sense like not going to the right of a vehicle that’s turning right.
@raybod1775 actually they don't mainly because people in cars dont put signals and that bikes aren't made to deal with traffic. That's why we have bike lanes.
@@raybod1775 actually going by standard traffic rules it's up to the car to make sure when turning that no one is coming up from the right site whenever turning, right turns also take place one later farther than the sidewalk, and a pedestrian could also be crossing, so a car turning right hitting a cyclist on their right IS at fault.
@@raybod1775 There is no country in this world where the taxes for owning and driving cars are getting anywhere near the costs of road building and maintenance. In most countries, it's not even enough to sustain the highway network, let alone country roads and city streets, not to mention parking lots.
And there is no country in the world where the majority of drivers fully obey traffic laws. And other than bycylist, not obeying the rules often endangers other people. Funny enough that this is proven by your next statement: If a bycyle has the right-of-way, it is perfectly sane passing it on the right even if it's indicating that it wants to turn right, because, well, you know, they count on the drivers to obey traffic laws...
@@raybod1775 ragebait
As a retired firefighter who started his career 50 years ago, i agree there is an overcompensation going on with US for apparatus.
You opened my eyes to the affects of this trend.
Oh, thank you so much for this. As an Architect and Planner, I am constantly frustrated that great plans for new neighborhoods, or infill, or narrower roads, are immediately rejected by smug Fire Marshals. Nobody feels comfortable pushing back, as who wants people to die!? I am shocked at how many times I see huge hook and ladder trucks screaming down my street to attend to a medical service call. We are all paying for this stupidity.
Fire marshals: "Am I out of touch?" "No, it's the town planners, traffic engineers, public transit advocates, road safety advocates, and cycling advocates who are wrong."
People can feel comfortable pushing back knowing that the wider streets and lack of protected bike space actually kills more people
Glad a light was shed on this. I feel like there is a lot of invisible infrastructure that prevents us from making progress. For example, part of the reason our school lunches in the US are horrendous is that most schools lack proper kitchens with adequate cooking equipment. So rather than cook fresh meals every day they just heat up some deep fried crap and any initiatives for healthier meals (well I should say lunches since that is all they get in American schools, even though they are paid for at point of sale) fall flat
As an automation engineer, I find it a little funny an architecture complaining about design lol. I do not mean any offense btw. Just a friendly jab at a fellow professional. 🤣 This isn't my wheelhouse so yes, I will stay in my lane. Pun intended.
the CLOSEST apparatus responds. Sometimes that is a Truck.
It’s really strange how people seem to subconsciously think that because a road is not explicitly just for cars that an emergency vehicle is not capable of driving on it, when a bike line, pedestrian space are all paved surfaces just with different paint and sizes.
and delivery vans too
Yep. They read 'car free' and think 'vehicle free.'
When we put things on our sidewalks, we regularly and spontaneously think about not taking up space we don't need to or ensuring there's enough room for a vehicle to pass through. Because we are generally conditioned to think about this. We spontaneously consider these factors.
I think there's also a funky self fulfilling prophecy at play there with a limit of imagination in the US, because bikelanes & sidewalks are so pitifully small & the cars so ginormous, the idea of a sidewalk a full vehicle can drive down sounds like an oxymoron, doubly so if it's a bikelane because they are just so freaking small or just out right nonexistent.
Not even to mention in like where I live in North East Pennsylvania there are just sections of road with no sidewalk at all. Like I'd be able to get so much easier from my house to the grocery store if I could use my kick scooter but long stretches of no sidewalk makes that basically impossible.
I didn't know this was possible until this video
After a recent traffic-calming meeting in Toronto where the EMS access issue was raised repeatedly, I actually talked to the crew chief down at the local fire hall.... who had no vehicle access concerns at all.
So I'm left wondering how much of this 'concern' is actually coming from the fire department, and how much is drivers concerned "on their behalf".
Good question.
The objections will be coming from the people at the top of the organisation, or from an administrator with the specific job of writing fire department responses to proposals. The odds of them actually consulting the local crews who work in an area as part of the response are quite slim.
The Yonge St. bike lane pilot, which was referenced in @NotJustBikes ' video, actually didn't have any objections from the fire department. In fact, the fire department came out during one consultation over Zoom and said they noticed no differences in response times.
@@stephengray1344 this. It’s been my experience that most objections come from the politically appointed leadership (and their staffers) of fire departments, not the on the ground fire crews (though that does happen from time to time).
EMS has no concerns, FF likes big rigs.
“Nobody ever wrote a song called F*ck the Fire Department.”
UNTIL TODAY
Amen brother
Not only do we Europeans have firetrucks for fires, but specializes trucks for specific cases like car accidents, etc.. They don't have to be that big or have to carry everything with them.
Depends, most vehicular accidents will nevertheless be attended by a "normal" fire truck/engine. The amount of gear you actually need for it is remarkably low. It fits into one or maximum two compartments. There are more specialized units for heavy rescue and there are others meant as first responders that have the bare minimum and wait for backup.
It is up to the departments and the standards practiced where you are.
That’s cute because are same big pumpers can literally do all that stuff and American fire trucks are just better built because they are custom made.
@@mauricemotors8207In the video I’m assuming you didn’t watch he literally explains why it having a custom base makes it worse
we do that in the us as well, but this guy wont tell you that
@@mauricemotors8207 and? What do you have onboard that we don't? Challenge me!
if you'd want footage of fire trucks in the netherlands, check a market (the weekly ones, containing stalls) in older city centers. If you go early enough chances are quite high that you'll see fire trucks drive around it to check that they can get everywhere. In Deventer for example they come by on friday and saturday around 9 in the morning. Granted not every time, but they do often enough for it to become normal. And it isn't exactly while they are in action
I saw them checking some streets around my building cos those are narrow and the ladder truck may not fit. Even some changes were mark by the fire department when the street was rebuild and some corners where too tight.
so around 9am, like maybe the time they are doing their shopping for the day?
@@josemorenoporras7506honestly this is another point against the American fire truck argument, because as you seem to be saying, you can actually test a design to ensure it works and can make changes if it doesn’t!
It's like every time you try to fix American cities, you uncover a new problem that's been swept under the rug for the benefit of some rich companies and the wealthy class.
Edit: (In this case it's privatized health care causing ambulances to be prohibitively expensive for many and necessitating fire departments to step in and pick up the slack)
@@dragon_nammi It’s like alcoholism or some other addiction, there’s always some excuse why things have to be the way they are
@@WaffleAbuser Yes turns out decades of underlyign problems cannot be fixed with a simple solution. Same for an alcoholic, they're not going to change their lives over night. In fact for severe alcoholic it's actually very dangerous to go dry turkey. one of few drugs that can actually kill you that way.
Obviously the US healthcare system is not NJB's area of expertise, but I'm glad someone pointed this out. Though I guess even if you solved _that_ problem, ambulances would still get stuck in traffic just like buses and fire trucks...
It's not the free market's fault that fire departments suck..
In France firefighter are also doing a lot of ambulance and paramedic work, they just use dedicated vehicules (who are also needed on fires in addition with firetrucks)
when i started this video i was somewhat skeptical of the claim that fire trucks and departments were actually THAT bad but by like 33% through the video i was like "oh my god this is so much worse than i'd thought"
I remember that exact discovery TV program. The USA team lost badly due to poor acceleration of heavy vehicle, and bad team effort and procedure. The European team did full equipment and personnel checks before departure, at site, and after operation, and still finish the test faster than USA team.
The funniest thing was the USA team threw the dummies on the ground while the European team gently put them on sheets beside first-aid kits.
@@Blitz350 It still proves the point NJB makes is his video : why the hell are so many unimportant features that serve no purpose put blindly on ALL firetrucks ? Unless there's a very region specific item, a fire truck will 99,99% of the time not require the use of 4x4. Getting unneeded stuff off the vehicles and better management of what must be kept would be a great way to help out.
Also, if I told someone there will be a track race and they bring the Land Rover, it's their fault for losing and not figuring out that they brought the wrong vehicle for the job.
The simple fact that virtually the entire world does it differently should already bring up someone's attention. Physics in America are no different from the rest of the world, so why reject everything that's done elsewhere?
As some people pointed out on this video, it feels like a classic case of North American exceptionalism.
@@Blitz350 "For a specialized role" except it's the truck design they use for every environment. It's like saying you're having a hard time maneuvering because you're wearing bomb-defusal gear, when you're not defusing any bombs and you're just wearing it for no reason. Maybe don't make the specialized role vehicle be the one and only standard for your country, when it doesn't apply 95% of the time. But hey, it's your tax dollars to waste.
I checked the video and couldn't figure out wheter the EU the EU fire truck there was 4x4, but as far as I know (and I've just checked to be sure), pretty much all fire trucks here (in Czechia) are 4x4 or 6x6.
@@Damorann4 wheel drive is usef in cities and suburbs too. Do you think fire trucks only drive on dry smooth roads? 4 wheel drive works for icy roads too. Please look up Mutual aid. City fire trucks go out to country fires all the time.
I watched this because I felt somewhat triggered by the title, then realized that was probably a good indication I was about to put myself into an echo chamber and should at least hear the opposition before I did so .
Very glad I did.
I worked in news for 3.5 years. While that did nothing to endear police to me, it did give me huge respect for firefighters. I live in Washington state, and the fires every year have been tremendous. Washington DNR has gone to great lengths restructuring wildfire responses and off-season preparations to increase fire readiness, and it honestly shows. I don't want to speak too soon, because we're super dry this year and fire season is expected to last through October, but this is the first year I can remember in nearly a decade where we haven't had a week of not seeing the sun due to wildfire smoke. Our state is brimming with fuel, but they've done an amazing job responding quickly. The first wildfire with DNR response in the area we had this year was back in March, but my coworker thought the nearby fire in July was the first. I explained no, there have been dozens, they just literally haven't been newsworthy due to the quick and efficient responses.
The city responses are also incredibly effective. When I was in news, part of my job was listening for breaking on the scanner. We had so many house and commercial structure fires. Yes, firefighters responded primarily to medical calls, but there was a confirmed structure fire almost every day, usually more than one. But I rarely said anything because almost every fire is out within 10 minutes from the time of the call. They're incredibly efficient. A look at the state's firefighter response from 2022 (I didn't check for 2023, sorry) shows nearly 31,000 fire responses, resulting in 81 deaths and nearly $330 million in property damage. It accounts for only 3.2 percent of all responses, but when fires happen, I know very well how important it is to have the resources to respond quickly.
Also, my room caught fire when I was in high school, and they were very nice to me after they ruled out arson. Lol.
All that to say, I am aware of my biases, and the massive respect I have for firefighters made me resistant to hearing criticism. However, I found your points not only credible, but also reasonable. When looking at the broader issue of street design, at the laundry list of flaws in American roadways, and at comparable vehicles elsewhere in the world, it is very clear our emergency vehicles do need modification. I can also vouch for the extensive number of times emergency vehicles had to find alternate routes or hike across rural properties because there was no access for vehicles of that size. And given how much of an issue wildfires have been lately, which are often sparked by farm equipment, more compact engines with easier maneuverability make sense. It is more sensible to modify the vehicles than it is to keep widening the streets.
I wonder if this issue could be raised to the IAFF. As an international union, they are less concerned with catering exclusively to American sensibilities, and they take firefighter safety very seriously. They have encouraged districts to phase out all gear with PFAS in it and established safety protocols for stations unable to purchase new gear. Given how many emergency workers are killed on the way to a scene or at a scene due to traffic accidents, I believe this is something they would consider looking into.... 🤔
Read this despite the length.
Was not expecting you to point out that many rural roads are not wide enough for the giant fire trucks used in North America. And the implications that city fire trucks may need to push into rural areas more often due to global warming.
Can I just say, respect. It's hard to watch things you know you'll disagree with, and I for one don't do it nearly often enough.
What’s with being triggered? A film about something you might disagree with could trigger you? Trigger you to what? Not have control over your emotional reaction?
@@Bluetanggshush
@@jamesphillips2285 You do realize there is more than just type 1 and type 2 engines. Most rural fire departments have a type 5 or type 6 engine, which are heavy duty pick up trucks with a small capacity water tank and 50 gal/min water pumps, and support 1 inch and 1 and a half inch hoses. They may also have a type 3 or type 4 engine, which are commonly used by the Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management, and state DNR for wild land fire responses and can some very nasty terrain.
George Carlin said, "Some people see the glass half full, others see the glass half empty. I see a glass that is twice as big as it needs to be!" Perhaps he would say the same about American fire trucks?
That's engineers, not George Carlin lol
@@3nertia George has a skit on this.
@@PixieLove5 Do you have a link to it?
24:32 writing "hell on wheels" on a fire truck is insane lmao
The "fire depts respond to more car crashes than fire situations" plot twist would boost this video to 7.7 imdb at least.
Honestly I'm suprised the percentage was so low
There are barely any fires
If they are a fire department with an ambulance, typically, about 80% of their calls are literally just regular EMS calls. Not car crashes. Not burning buildings. Ambulance work.
Roundabouts are actually nice when it comes to letting an emergency vehicle pass you. You just have to do an extra turn around the roundabout, problem solved.
If you don't lay mines, build fort, or dig deep pit in the center - you can also drive over the center if push comes to shove. If damage to shrubbery is worth 20 seconds - you drive over the shrubbery.
that would be considerate...and i'm sorry, i don't think that is taught in US-based drivers' ed.😑
Roundabouts are excellent. They put in one on a really dangerous intersection near my house, now it’s a lot more safe.
@@cocoaswann2095 to be fair, basic human empathy, and consideration for others is SUPPOSED to be taught by your elders... It's just that people have lost that key skill over the last 50 or so years in much of the US. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't need a written test to teach you how to act when you see someone needing priority over yourself.
I thought it was weird that when we called 911 for a medical emergency, the fire department came first. Now I know why.
I am German and we also respond to medical emergencies.
we do that with a small sized minivan. It's much faster than our truck, and we still have the truck available in case we need it.
Well, also remember that fire departments are mostly there for property protection. 🏦🤴💲🗽
So that's funded on the public dollar, while medical is privatized and not supplied as much, despite the fact medical emergencies happening more often and actually being people's lives instead of stuff.
@@semurobo What if you get another type of call on the way back from the medical call, do you have to return to the station to retrieve the other truck?
@@firewrx612 Yes. We are a voluntary fire department so we will usually still have people available who didn't respond to the medical call.
sometimes it's faster to get back to get our truck, sometimes it's more useful to directly get to the other call and meet our truck there.
But even if, the way back is like 5 minutes drive at most, with sirens blaring it's maybe 3 minutes.
Because they have the paramedics!😂
You guys ever been stuck in traffic when an emergency vehicle rolls up behind you? No room to pull off to the side, you can't drive forward because you would be doing that already if you could, so all you can do is sit there and shrug. If you are on foot or on a bike, there's always space, even if you have to step into a ditch. In a car though? What are you supposed to do when you're penned in on all sides?
I seriously hate that logic of "that's a different environment" or "they have a different culture." I get that BS from my dad all the time but he can never substantiate that claim. Even in the rare cases where he _can_ list a difference between two cultures that has produced the different end result, the minute I press on "why _can't_ we change that?" he just kind of shrugs and changes the topic. Its essentialist garbage that makes the implication that things are the way they are for some nebulous unchangable reason, and thus we should not even bother. There are certainly cultural differences between places and those cultural differences can be rather hard to change, but they can still be changed. There is no intrinsic reason why American cars have to be as big as they are. We could change it tomorrow if we just had the will to do so.
Traffic death far outweigh fire death and even murder in almost all US cities. If the focus is on public safety then mitigating car deaths needs to be a top priority.
thats why every summer mysterious fires always seem to start at the poerfect places during perfect conditions that require many different counties of fire depts to show up to battle the blaze
Easy just make the lanes wider, cars bigger and make sure no people move without a car. 😂
@@giuseppe_M are you talking about wild fires?
@@GalaxyRexBoi I think he's claiming people are deliberately setting fires to encourage fire department funding.
...Nah.
Survivorship bias here; fires cause a lot less death *because* we have fire departments. Back before we had them, whole cities could burn down from even a single fire.
The point here isn't that fire departments aren't important; it's that they don't actually need trucks so big that they necessitate dangerous road designs.
I'm a wildland fire fighter. We use relatively small, highly maneuverable engines. I've often wondered what's up with urban fire departments and the huge unwieldy vehicles going on every call. It's totally unnecessary. I had no idea the effects they have on street layout and such. Interesting video.
I believe it is because you wildland guys do not have to operate with extrication equipment, medical gear, ladders, large diameter hoses, and all the extra gear most structure guys carry. That is if we are talking about anything over a type 3 rig ofc.
@@Lolitzi13 which as you have seen in this video still don't need to be so large.
@@TheGrundigg lmaoooo, it's like they are PURPOSELY OBTUSE. I always chuckle when I peruse the comment section and some bloke is making a point THAT WAS ALREADY DISCREDITED in the video. Just LOL.
here in europe the wildland trucks are about the same size as urban/habitational area ones if a bit larger due to the offroad-capable tires and suspension, sometimes you'll even see adapted unimogs used for this, they'll get damn near anywhere so long as a cliff or massive tree isn't in the way
@@Lolitzi13 and we carry a lot of gear you guys don't.
98% of the time an American comments about why European city planning is not going to work compared to the US version... they come up with some problem that we solved literally decades ago. WE ALREADY DID THE HOMEWORK BRO JUST COPY IT FFS 😂
Or even worse, they mention something as if our cities weren't like European ones until 80 years ago. This stuff has precedent here too.
I work at the fire department in Amsterdam, and it's funny to see that at 3:32, that's exactly my fire truck (Victor, Amsterdam oost) Haha. We do a lot of rescue work to assist the medical teams, but we really need smaller emergency vehicles for the narrow streets of Amsterdam. Unlike the police and ambulance services, we don't drive around constantly, but our stations are so well-positioned that we're often the first on the scene.
We have specialized fire trucks when we need specific equipment, which is also one of the reasons why our fire trucks can remain small.
great video, thx!
Love the tldr from a German fire fighter:
Lol, we are more efficient with the space, but have the same stuff.
and it's a fantastic system of compartmentalized equipment. If you know German, there's a fantastic tv series courtesy of state media called "Feuer und Flamme" (=Fire and Flames) which follows several fire departments around in their daily missions from EMS and saving cats to the once-in-a-decade fires.
@@PhilippBlum there is a channel "Heroes next door" where a firefighter goes around different US fire stations and showcases their buildings and equipment. The funny thing is that almost all equipment compartments in American engines/ trucks are half empty "for the sake of future proofing".
@@solarissv777 just in case we invent an entirely new form of energy in the next five years that requires new extinguishing agents ;)
@@solarissv777 in German fire trucks everything has it’s spot and is fixed in place. For me it seemed like in American trucks they just throw it in the compartment. Leaving “no room” after one bag filled the floor of the compartment.
@@solarissv777 They buy the engine based on what looks cool then figure out what to put inside. I'm not joking at all with this.
In my city 80% of calls are medical, and only 0.5% are structure fires. A few years ago they added stripped down ambulance services for less-serious calls. Some ambulance calls are for heart attacks and strokes, but many are a broken arm or stitches, which dont need as extensive a response. The less-equipped ambulances are also useful for transporting people between hospitals when they are stable, but can't travel in a normal vehicle. I LOVE the idea of paramedics on motorcycles. I recently learned that casinos are the safest place to have a heart attack outside of hospitals, because they have defib machines everywhere and the casino staff are trained in CPR. Speed is critical to survival!
@@ebrothen
I didn't expect casinos to be well prepared for emergencies
@@TheAutisticOwl its because they see such high visitation from retirees, some people bounce from casino to casino and cruise ship to cruise ship as their retirement plan instead of a retirement home due to cost. Many cruise ships have a small on board morgue now because of this, and if they dont they carry body bags and stuff them in the freezer next to the Steaks.
We had a medical emergency at our house. Emergency services were called.
First, a fire engine showed up. Then an ambulance (which showed up so soon after the fire engine, that the ambulance paramedics were at the patient within 10 seconds of the firefighters, in spite of actually pulling up outside the house nearly two minutes later.) Then a fire department officer/official/someone in a fire department SUV. Then two police cars.
Note - the medical situation could have been fully resolved with just the ambulance, or, since no transport was needed, a couple people in a small vehicle with storage for medical supplies. (More than a motorcycle, less than an SUV.) There was absolutely no reason to send five vehicles weighing likely over 40,000 pounds and clogging up my street.
Even assuming "more medical than bare minimum" is a good response, a "fire department paramedic on a small vehicle quickly, followed by an ambulance in case transport is needed" would have been fine.
It’s good to have more experienced people to bring ideas to the table for medical services that might be more high stress or haven’t been handled before by all the crew. Crowd control also is a good way to advocate for your patients. And with obesity always rising you will want more people to move incapacitated patients to be transported or for whatever their needs are
@@elliottthurlow954 but why big, useless truck?
@@elliottthurlow954 5 vehicles, and 3 different sevices, is still overkill - ever heard of "too many cooks spoil the broth" - too many people means more distraction for the experts who do know how to solve the problem, and more people getting in the way.
@@valivali8104 I’m not the one to ask or determine if they’re useful or not. But I’m curious if the gear is generally equal across the big NA fire vehicles and the euro/Asian styled ones. I think the video only provided one screenshot to argue that point but I’ll rewatch.
Yeah the one anecdotal evidence piece didn’t highlight the 1000 gallon difference between the vehicles so there may be more. Who knows unless you work as a firefighter in both Europe and America
Do you want two people working your loved one's cardiac arrest (ambulance crew) or five (ambulance crew + fire crew)? All the people who responded to your emergency were getting paid. Would you rather have them doing nothing sitting on their behinds in quarters? A crew never knows what they are facing till they see it for themselves. Much better to have too much help then too little. Unneeded units can return to service immediately. Yes, fire trucks are way bigger then necessary (just like pickup trucks and suvs).
This ties perfectly with the truck/SUV mindset in America. Majority of truck/SUV owners buy them for cases that rarely, if ever, happen. They over compensate. This is just the American way. Fixing this will take generations as you need an entire culture shift.
Many European emergency vehicles are starting to be equiped with a newer generation siren generators that add shaped white noise (tactical harmonics) which vastly improves everyone's ability to localize where the siren sounds are coming from.
Don't underestimate how dangerous the old sirens can be when you don't know where it's coming from and you suddenly find yourself a foot away from being ran over.
I absolutely despise the wailing siren of US emergency vehicles. They irritate the hell out of me.
@@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse what countries are you talking about? Classic two tone high low sirens like the German Martinshorn are pretty good to localize compared to everything else like wail, yelp, ...
I’m now remembering the family guy sketch about French ambulances 😆
Its almost laughable how backwards the circular logic on some things is.
"Our reaction time may be too slow, because our vehicles are too large, but we can get more space for them by abolishing faster infrastructure for faster vehicles!"
Genius ☉ ‿ ⚆
There are exchange programs between police departments in European countries and the US (and maybe Canada). Perhaps an exchange program for fire departments would be an eye opener?
Absolutely! I'm really curious to know what the conversation was like down at the pub after that "Mean Machines" episode was filmed.
They have done programs like this for years, normally they are done to show EU firefighters how different fires in the US are and how are tactics are different from theirs. There was just not too long ago two Dutch firefighters that rode with Detroit Fire to experience some good ol American firefighting.
@@NotJustBikeswouldn’t be sure even European firefighters totally understand the benefits of our traffic engineering. Understanding stuff is not just different, but better in this way needs deep understanding. Not just pushing differences in material to different tactics and organization.
Especially as there are some differences. Like a lot lighter build house leaving firefighter less time in the US. Leading in my understanding to a lot more aggressive tactics.
@@maltekoch1632 You're basically saying European houses are better build being more fire retardant. But it still doesn't explain the size of American fire trucks.
@@addylandzaat8080 abolutley. My idea was just a american fire fighter, would first think they do it different because EU is different. Not because they got a better solution the us. Especially if the benefits are not directly in the emergency services.
As well I have heard the same argument from the US in germany as well. As I remember it was more people (some politicans) not liking bike lanes and traffic calming talking like that. Not the fire departments themselfs.
As a European I don't understand how everything about traffic seems to be so bad in the US. Will it ever be possible to change it to the better?
Hello,
It’s unfortunately because the battle between a free flowing urban environment blended with competent public transportation and lots of walking/biking infrastructure has lost to suburbanization long ago.
In a lot of areas, you NEED to get in your car and drive. To work. To shop. To eat. Etc.
The train systems into major cities is also so abysmal that folks who live in a town but work in a major city often choose to drive instead. This traffic blended with those who already live in the city is a bit of a mess.
The American transportation system is a decade or two behind modern transportation in other comparable countries. It will take trillions to overhaul and improve enough to the point where people can comfortably elect not to drive so much. Driving used to be more of a leisurely endeavor in a lot of these major cities because you had street cars (train tracks in the middle of the road) and trollies everywhere. You could get about easily. Street cars were destroyed and abandoned in favor of leaning into more vehicles.
I recently had a conversation with a traffic engineer about a 4-to-3 lane conversion in downtown Asheville with unprotected bike lanes. Bike advocates wanted the lanes protected. The traffic engineer asked what to remove from the street cross section to add the buffer. I suggested the center turn lane should be removed. Each time the group addressed her issue with removing the turn lane, there would be a new excuse. In order, she argued:
1. Without a center turn lane, the left turn radius will be wider, allowing turning vehicles to pick up more speed before hitting a pedestrian in the crosswalk, and reducing pedestrian safety. (what an ABSOLUTELY INSANE take)
2. The fire department won’t allow it
3. Not having a center turn lane will create congestion that slows down buses (they are already unusably bad, it’s a typical American small city bus system)
4. MUTCD and AASHTO require a center turn lane
5. It would be politically unpopular with city council to remove the turn lane.
And we finally arrived at the real reasons. Taking away space from cars is politically unpopular, and the people who design these streets have no ability to weigh and balance tradeoffs.
@davidparker9676 What kind of weird take is that? Probably more people would feel safe enough to bike (which is good for the environment and climate) if the bike lanes were adequately protected and cars were not politically prioritized for once. It's actually pretty straightforward.
@@davidparker9676 here in Ohio we combined bike lanes on each side of train tracks it helps remove quite allot of traffic since it can be faster than cars and it goes from and through Pennsylvania all the way to Ohio and has been extended and it has safety features it can't be that hard to not design areas to not be deathtraps or inconvenience others that much it's just that people are too car centric or drive to areas that would have taken less time if the just used a different mode of transportation and didn't get stuck in traffic
@@davidparker9676Bro, if I drive a car, I’m gonna take up more space, make traffic and cause more pollution. So yes, you are the weird one for not seeing that. If you are in traffic, you are the traffic.
@@davidparker9676 Oh, the 'common sense' argument... It's not the strongest one. Just look at countries like the Netherlands where biking is so common and integrated into traffic that it's one of the most popular means of transportation.
I was not specifically advocating for anything with my comment, I was just pointing out the logical flaws (i.e. that you seem to have confused the symptom and the cause of the problem). It does not HAVE to be that way that you have to decide between cars and bikes, it should be possible to create infrastructure so that people can make the free choice which means of transportation suits them best. You don't have to pitch these two options against each other, that is a false premise.
Also, I find it pretty strange that you seem to advocate for primarily (or even exclusively) car-oriented infrastructure and arguing that this is actually pro-climate when the opposite is the case (which is not new info, there are lots of studies about traffic and climate). That is not very 'common sense' of you in my opinion.
@davidparker9676 common sense would tell you smaller more efficiently designed cars combined with smaller roads will mean fewer pedestrian deaths, more people walking and being healthier.
Car dependent designed roads/cities are the worst possible idea to have.
My father was a volunteer firefighter in our county's all-volunteer department. They had three vehicles in the garage; one truck-sized truck, one fire engine, and one panel van kitted out to be a useful-in-a-pinch ambulance. Guess which vehicle they took to _every_ call. Yeah, the engine. They might also send the other vehicles, but that engine went out for every maybe-heart-attack call. There were two main reasons; the first was that the engine needed to have miles put on it or it would seem unnecessary. The other, and I shit you not, is that the volunteers loved driving the engine. "Big truck go vroom" applies to a bunch of middle-aged wannabe heroes.
I highly doubt there are many departments that lack more appropriate vehicles. Those that do? Let's spend a tiny bit of the savings we yield from road diets on smaller vehicles for them. Maybe paint flames and shark teeth on them so the firemen aren't too bummed out about it.
omg that reinforces so many stereotypes! 😁
Wow your father really did fail to raise you considering you just shit all over him and the millions of volunteer firefighters in America and around the world calling them "middle-aged wannabe heroes".
And it’s ALL volunteer?!
This is insane! You need professionals and they need to be paid full time. Otherwise there’s no incentive and we can’t rely on volunteers, we just cant
@@KRobinson-ko1ne in Germany 95% of all fire fighters are volunteers and we have response times akin to the US.
the "big trucks go vroom" argument a good leader can fix with stricter protocol, the "it needs to be used or you loose it" is the bane of every public service. If it is road construction, hospital wings or Fire department inventory, buerocratic budgeting is the worst tool for the job of ensuring availability of social services.
not so long ago a volunteer Fire department went on strike/resigned in full because the budgetary needs for new trucks were not met for over 10 years and the department leaders lost confidence in being able to do their jobs, so they resigned and all other volunteers had their backs and went with them.
they forced local politics to do something, don´t exactly know what came of it but if politicians can override the basic needs of social services, the system is stupid and will inevitable collapse the effectiveness of what ever it governs to funnel funds into vanity projects or more visible issues.
Literally every "what about" question people use against car free areas can be answered by theme parks. In the case of "what about emergency vehicles [in car free spaces]?", theme parks don't have cars driving through them, but they're still accessible for emergency vehicles. The often have their own emergency AND maintenance vehicles that are variations on golf carts. When you're at human scale, you don't need huge cars and huge streets to drive them on.
Nice one!
In case of a fire at a theme park, a actual fire engine water is often needed. You'll notice that all theme parks that have golf carts for emergency services are used for medical purposes only as that's the extent of their service.
@@Lolitzi13 yes as is 96% of the fire truck responses in the cities. So why not have golf carts for those and use big boys when they are needed?
I wouldn't be surprised if the theme park industry was hard lobbying against car-free spaces because people would be less marvelled when entering their theme parks. The car free experience is part of the magic at this point
@@TheGrundigg I'm not against that, it just seems that op is making it seem like all firefighting and medical functions can be made onto one small golf cart is when can't.
"Diet coke hamburgers per bald eagles"
The most american unit of measurement.
i was waiting to see this comment
@@zsomborhun8105 should've been washing machines per browning hi-power
BMI per moon landing
This needs to be an official measurement. For obesity or fundamentalism maybe?
I immediately started to think “how can I use this as an example to teach unit conversions to my physics students” 😂
As a former volunteer fire fighter in ohio. The majority of our calls to car accidents don't need a pumper. We had a converted ambulance for car wrecks. We bought a Japanese k truck for off road search and rescue
and now many states are banning kei-trucks (or trying to) because the U.S. car industry doesn't want to have to compete against 25-year-old foreign imports
@@MatthijsvanDuin Why make what people want when you can just ban anything different?
@MatthijsvanDuin Are American trucks incompetent? If people are starting to bug Kei trucks, then it must have something it offers over American brands.
@@bassyey Three things actually: they're small, affordable, and fuel-efficient.
@@bassyey American trucks are gigantic, massively overspec'd because "what if I need to tow my boat one day!" or "what if I need to move a bunch of big heavy stuff one day!", inefficient, and have 4-5 seater cabins instead of the normal 2 seater because they still need to be able to "do it all" (be a family transportation vehicle), and expensive as hell. All for them to be used for nothing but normal transportation the overwhelming majority of time by tons of people who buy them. They're generally bought for the aesthetic of having a big mean truck and not for a real purpose. Also, the manufacturers make way more money off these big ass trucks (and SUVs) due to the way our regulations work, since light trucks are granted exemptions/lower fuel economy standards than cars. The profit margins are just sooooo much higher.
Kei trucks are small but still have a normal bed size, the bed height is actually manageable (giant trucks, especially if lifted, make loading stuff a lot harder), they're fuel-efficient, and SIGNIFICANTLY more affordable despite being imported. People who are actually working and need trucks as such enjoy them for their versatility and functionality. You can even convert a regular kei truck into a mobile pop-up shop similar to how one might with a cargo van.
It's not like I don't think big, powerful trucks are wholly unnecessary - I do see some people that genuinely use them as intended. But then you see way more people running a giant spotless truck on rubber bands and a permanently empty bed. The overwhelming majority of people who buy a truck for the "what if I need it one day!" scenario would be better off just renting an appropriate vehicle for their decennial real need for a truck, and they'd save a hell of a lot of money. I get that buying a vehicle here can be a pretty emotionally-led decision even if most don't want to admit it, but that's part of why we really need more stringent regulations to stop manufacturers from ballooning our vehicles and convincing us we need them for their profit.
I've decided that the USA is just a giant movie set and everything that happens there happens either because it "looks better on camera" or because "that's what the audience wants". Make this dystopia make sense.
I was trying to put it into words but this is exactly what I was thinking.
The the "XYZ" theatre of it all. Security theatre, safety theatre, take your pick.
You have won the thread. Everyone else can go home now.
Hold on, you're making too much sense...
Like china, but it's just less optimal instead of totally fake.
Asian supercities make American cities look like LEGO sets and yet they can use trucks with normal sizes.
LEGO sets are elegant and designed well, don't think that' describes a US city.
My trip to Tokyo had me grimacing when I came back to Los Angeles.
“Roundabout are extremely rare in America unless you are in Carmel Indiana or something.”
*Me standing in Carmel Indiana 🧌
gz
@@Hamms22 theyre all over the place in New Jersey. This guy just hates America and takes any chance to make it look bad.
I grew up watching a show called Emergency! about a Los Angeles fire station. The two main characters were paramedics/EMS and they drove a smaller truck (like a modified heavy duty pickup) to all their medical emergencies. They only rolled the big trucks for fires and other disasters. I just thought that was how we did things back in the 1970’s.
That was a great show.
The reason was that the paramedic program was very new, so nobody on a fire engine could render medical care.
That show was about the Nations first Paramedic/EMS unit, which was inspired by *the 1966,* National Academy of Sciences - National Research Council publication of a report titled "Accidental Death and Disability: The Neglected Disease of Modern Society" , which recommends the use of pilot programs to determine the efficacy of providing physician-staffed ambulances for care. In this document, it states (under the heading: Ambulance Services):
"Implementation of recent traffic safety legislation to ensure completely *adequate standards for ambulance design,* and construction, for ambulance equipment and supplies, and for the qualifications and supervision of ambulance personnel." Standards that revolved around AMBULANCES, not Fire Trucks. Like _Everything_ obesely Capitalist, Paramedics went from a pickup truck - *_Assisted_* by a local Ambulance, to a full 12,000 pound transport EMT TRUCK ($500,000), assisted by another Fire engine ($1.3 Million).
In America, its NEVER about what's good for the people, always Follow the M-O-N-E-Y.
Those 911 shows are not accurate
@@mauricemotors8207 The show Emergency! was accurate. It's just that it accurately portrayed the beginning of the paramedic program in the 1970s, which isn't very relevant to today.
"Roundabouts are extremely rare in the US"
Jason, you haven't seen the progress we're making in some places. Intersections are being changed to roundabouts all over the midwest where i'm from. I think traffic engineers are figuring it out slowly. It wont happen overnight, but each time they rebuild an intersection, they seem to upgrade it to be more like the Netherlands. In one of my favorite recently redone intersections, they even have the triangles printed on the ground to indicate right of way, skinny traffic calming lanes and proper pedestrian AND bicycle passage, with pedestrian islands. We'll get there.... eventually.
That's beautiful! And we must cheer for every step of progress! I think by far the biggest problem is that each state if not each city has its own rules and regulations. It is hard to get anything consistent like that. So I'm happy for the progress but my god its been way too long of a wait already.
@rocbola i feel like he knows that. Even my parents are catching on to it. This channel is pretty hostile to standard american road culture and would rather bash its opponents than acknowledge any positive changes.
Even down in the South, I live in Florida so I'm not sure about other states. This year, they finished constructing three roundabouts, and for one of them, I even got to see it slowly happen in a couple of months. I was honestly surprised by how fast they constructed that one and even the other ones that I never saw being constructed. On top of this, recently, my town announced that they are going to work with the county for improvements to a road that are going to start and has an estimated completion date of 2026 for two new roundabouts, improvements to the bus stops, bike lanes, traffic calming, and other things like drainage and street lighting. I believe the county has also been working to add/improve bike lanes and even public transit.
Right? I'm in the Midwest and I go through multiple roundabouts on my work commute
The traffic engineers have known for a long time. The trouble is convincing politicians that it’s worth spending money on or changing zoning laws for.
American traffic engineer: But what if, hear me out, what if another fire truck came from the opposite direction, sirens blaring, heading to a different emergency? **Adds two more lanes**
That’s why parking lots need to be bigger too.
Second American traffic engineer: Also, what if, hear me out, this was happening at one of the four-way intesections, and there were two more fire trucks coming from either side, sirens blazing, heading to two more emergencies? *adds an extra four lanes*
I was five years ago elected for a rural German council (Verbandsgemeinde). We serve 11 local councils with 30 fire departments (650 volunteers all in all). For every local area, it is considered which types of danger and tasks are apparent, how high the buildings are, and so on (we have no ambulance service).
According to the tasks and local conditions, the local firebrigades are provided their vans (if and when we have the money for them, which unfortunately often lasts many years because we are underfunded).
When we get rid of an old fire van and deliver a new, bigger one, we very often have to rebuild the shed/firestation where they are kept. So we try to keep the size down if possible.
None of these big American firetrucks are suitable to the steep slopes and narrow roads in our area.
I think it should always be considered if the firetrucks fit their purpose. Apparently, this is often not the case.
@NotJustBikes I’m a Firefighter/EMT in the US. I’m also a supporter of your channel and the strong towns organization. I would like to bring a couple things to attention. These are not intended to be counter points, but rather context on why firefighter departments behave the way they do. One issue, which affects volunteer/small town departments more than career departments is that of replacing trucks. Many towns provide bare minimum funding to there departments, leaving it to department members to hold fund raisers to pay for new equipment, new apparatus (Engines, Ladders, Rescues, Ambulances, etc.,) and stations. One of the towns I work in has 1 ambulance that was supposed to be replaced last year, 1 of each Engine, Ladder, and Rescue that are supposed to be replaced this year, and several more to be replaced next year with no plan or action by the town on funding those replacements. Many towns in the area are still operating apparatus built in the 80s. The idea of replacing all these trucks with vehicles that are more sensibly sized is a daunting task for many of these departments because they can’t replace there vehicles at all. Second is the idea of a generalized truck. This often comes in two forms, a rescue-pumper (combination Engine Rescue), or a quint (combination Ladder Engine). Many departments with manpower issues lean towards these trucks that are inherently more massive than a specialized apparatus because there may be times when they can only get one truck out the door. Mutual aid (other fire departments providing apparatus to a neighboring town during an incident) can alleviate this, but many towns try to have some level of self reliance in case that mutual aid doesn’t get out. The last point I would like to mention is behavioral. There is and expression in the fire service that states “Firefighters hate two things, change and the way things are.” Firefighters can be difficult to convince, because our job is life or death, for us and the people we are helping. Many firefighters want change of some variety, but any change is seen as life threatening, so it is a very slow moving process. I would like to reiterate that I am not challenging a move towards people friendly cities, I am giving points of context that may help to keep in mind when convincing a Fire Department to make changes. At the end of the day, firefighters want to help, as such, saving lives and reducing injury and loss of property should remain the primary focus points when approaching the fire service, because that is the only thing that most of us care about, and that basis will be the most likely to change our minds.
I also feel like one do everything apparatus would be cheaper up front then several specialized apparatus. yes with specialized apparatus the cost might be able to be split out more but it is still probably more overall which is an issue. and I feel like while fuel costs might be slightly lower for specialized apparatus that would only be true if only one apparatus responded. the second a second apparatus rolled out the door you would be burning more fuel then a do everything apparatus. and with multiple apparatus you need a bigger building and more maintenance so running costs would be higher.
and while my departments second engine is slightly bigger (wider, taller, longer) it is capable of a lot more the the first engine. the first engine is still primary on strict fires and depending on who shows up to drive may go to vehicle fires as well but the other engine does everything else. (and we don't roll an engine on EMS calls though the fire side being fully volunteer is probably part of that).
yeah we probably could get by with smaller apparatus especially in cities but our engines don't have much wasted space. also the second engine was fast approaching it's weight limit even before they put some of the last gear on it so it's probably overweight
Apparently a lot of rural fire depts in the US have been buying used European fire trucks, which helps keep the cost down a lot.
As a disabled person in the UK, I've had many ambulance calls in my time. I mention this because I know now that fire departments would likely be the ones responding in some of those cases over in the US. Something we have here are paramedics who just drive regular cars to medical issues, fitted out with enough first aid supplies to tackle most cases. medical triage, oxgyen cannisters, etc.
In many cases, the emergency call centre acts as a triage, and determines who needs to respond. To simpler cases, it's more cost effective to deploy one paramedic in a car who can either resolve the issue or escalate further. That's good for two reasons - you can buy and outfit a regular car for WAY less money than you can an ambulance/fire truck, and also the operating costs of that one car are significantly less too.
If fire departments could send a more economical vehicle to some emergencies, wouldn't that also help with the budget limitations by bringing down the overhead expenses you have, and freeing up funding down the line for upgrading the larger vehicles?
To your point on the combination engines being a lot bigger. In the UK we have Rescue and Heavy Rescue Pumpers. We also have ALPs which are the same as your quint in ladder length and equipment but smaller. The only issue I would foresee in your rural settings is water capacity, though I suppose if you were able to have a combination engine a much cheaper tanker pumper would also be an option in these areas.
This is some good context. It would be useful if city fire departments could lead the charge on switching to smaller trucks, which in turn would free up newer (but still large) firetrucks for rural volunteer posts
In Germany there is something called the BO-Kraftkreis. It is a circle with an outer radius of 12,50 m and an inner radius of 5 m, meaning it's 7,50 m wide. Every vehicle on the streets has to be able to go around 360 Degrees in this circle without touching either the inner or outer boundary. It's not like we don't have huge trucks in Germany. Generally, German trucks weigh more than their US counterparts with 88.000 lbs (40 t) or 97.000 lbs (44 t) as regular maximum weights. This was pretty surprising to me as in the US trucking is so important and roads (and everything else) are way bigger. Thing is though: Every truck, every semi, every 97.000 lbs vehicle fits and maneuvers inside the BO-Kraftkreis with its 12,5 and 5 meter radii.
We have a vast network or railroads in the U.S. that does a lot of the moving of things.
I didn't know about that. Very interesting. Thank you for you Comment adding to this discussion! 👍👍
I was wondering a lot about the absurd length of many US trucks. Look at Rubber Duck's Mack from "Convoy": Long nose (I love the look of them, though), huge sleeper cabin, two meters of thin air, the (long and thin) trailer sits on the very end of the tractor unit and the trailer axles atthe very end of the trailer. I was told (by an actual US trucker) that they need to spread their weight over a certain length of road not to overload bridges.
@@billyyank5807 brother, the EU rail network makes the American counterpart look like nothing
@@marcisdzerve9558 yes and no, we beat them on passenger rail with a margin, but the US hands us our asses when it comes to freight. Even on some major freight corridors, like along the Rhine, most trains won't exceed 600 m, 800 m is a very long train, and over that is probably a record attempt or something. US freight trains are often a mile or longer, double-stacked, and running at speeds of up to 79 mph, or about 127 km/h. A 100 km/h freight train is an express service, rarely do they exceed that.
You know what's better than a firetruck using bike lanes? If there was a space on the road dedicated for big, wide, boxy vehicles, that can carry like 50 people at once, but also run on a regular schedule, so they'll never be too busy for a firetruck to use them. Someone should really invent something like that.
A well-designed city can have both, but in the US both are labeled as socialism.
Adam?
He does mention transit lanes near the end of the video
Using bus and tram lanes is highlighted in the video.
My thought when those fire engines were going down those bike paths is the insane wear and tear on the bike path. Use something designed for heavy vehicles instead of tearing up the only good thing cyclists have going for them. All those driving lanes and not ONE for bus/emergency use only? come tf on.
I was a firefighter for 6 years in rural New York, left due to ideological differences with like 95% of the department (take a guess) and am now in technology. I couldn't agree more about the issues you raised here, we literally would respond to 99.9% of calls in our engine first, a massive Pierce fire engine that was a swiss army knife of gear but we rarely ever needed it all, and there were entire drawers of the engine we wouldn't even dream of utilizing on whatever call we were going on at the time, when we got our rescue (dedicated vehicle for car accidents) we got it the same size as the rest of our trucks and honestly struggled to fill the drawers with gear, 100% can size down.
I love your videos and they (among other TH-camrs) have contributed a *lot* to my now heavily progressive mindset, so thanks. But it's refreshing to hear a video on a topic that I'm probably more familiar with than the creator, and the creator still nails every point and doesn't misrepresent anything, it's reassuring to know for sure you put a lot of care and effort into your research.
America is where ideas that benefit the common good go to die.
@@reidflemingworldstoughestm1394 Yes because this is cOmMuNiSm1!!!1!11!!!
It is infuriating how the US is such an amazing country in terms of natural resources and geography for security and trade and they wasted it all by being completely fkn idiots. If any other nation was put in charge of the US they would be ruling the world within five years.
Yup pretty much. North America loves its dysfunction
The sacrifices they make go into a war machine that polices the world. Not great, but the alternatives are much worse.
@@castorchua Wider streets and more accidents are not making the world a safer place in any objective way.
I run a fire district in a Colorado moutain town. This argument is reasonable and we have worked with municipal planners in the 3 jurisdictions we cover on better street design standards, however, there is a lack of published material to use as an alternative to the existing codes. Would be very excited to follow Scott Brody's work as we want to be a better partner on this and frankly, traffic circles are just fine..;)
I'm from Germany. House 50 m away burned. Saw fire out of one window. I and some random dude ringed all the doorbells, up the stairs, knocked. From inside you didn't see anything until you got to the top of the stairs , ceiling black, apartment a black hole. No smoke visible no fire visible. Yelled inside. Thankfully no reason to get in there. Confused man refused to leave. Talked. Then Police arrived so we left. Fire department took a lil longer. Which leads me to think motorcycle firefighter could be a good idea in some cases? Definitely fastest. If there had been reason to run into that black hole you'd want a guy in firefighter gear not a policeman. I assume the gear doubles well enough as protective gear except the helmet. Stuff you can get on a motorcycle wouldn't put out much of anything but it can carry breathing stuff , an axe, maybe one or two extinguishers. I know manufacturers have ideas about that too, BMW I think. I assume they always like to present that stuff the same way arms manufacturers present their new gun to the military
As a teacher in the public schools in the USA, it’s not surprising how firefighters get away with snarky put-downs that don’t have truth to them. They've shown they can’t critique safe road development with arguments based on facts. Worse, they use their position in society to back up crazy thoughts about the need for gigantic roads and vehicles instead of arguing from basic facts. The bad roads and the whole bad network in the USA and Canada will take time to change, but we must use facts. Firefighters must be called out for not having, or not using, basic knowledge. Thanks for building up the case against them by using expert knowledge to put out their firehose of wrong ideas. What they’ve been doing is typical bully behavior. They should be called out for it. Great job!
Thanks! As usual, there are lots of useful links in the description.
Cosigning this because you're right. Firefighters should learn and be criticized for being ignorant.
Shouldn't fire departments be fighting against suburbia designs as it increases response times? The inconsistency makes me think they have other motives.
I think we could expect firefighters to know more about road design if more than 30% of them were actually paid
I'll only say it once: the physics of fire haven't changed (though new materials do indeed burn faster), yet every 5-10 years there is a new concept on how to fight fire. I've seen it all:
First there is the academic who has never seen fire and tells me I can use 50L of spray water to take all the energy out of the fire; then the veteran that tells me based on his fires from the 80s that you should flood the house; then comes the guy who loves action and tells me I should open the bail once and multitask; then the lazy one who takes the smallest hose and stays in one place and so on.
I'm a firefighter in Germany and I do believe most guys don't know anything about their trade. Even actual experts seem to disagree on basic stuff...
rebrand the "bike lane" to "emergency lanes" say that no other vehicle can use, and if it's not in use, bike can use that too. I assure you that they will have a hard time to understand and counter argument against it 😂
Fireman here, here in the Netherlands all fire trucks are also equipped for all purposes but only for the basic incidents (95% of the incidents), if the incident is/getting bigger or need special or bigger equipment from the start they will send a specialist unit for the type of incident.
Also funny to mention, on 16:55 there is a fire station around the corner and the regional dispatch for police, ambulance and fire service is the building on the left.
Just curious, are the fire department and ambulance service separate entities in the Netherlands? Also, are they privately owned or run by the government?
@@ConnorDuffy.They are separate, all receive funding from the government (possibly local, idk), and all get called in for whatever they're applicable to by the national organisers. (To not send a bigass truck when a little van or even a motorcycle would have sufficed and was possibly closer) So they're all (technically) government AFAIK.
There are separate phone numbers for each (local) department, but that's mostly outside of an emergency. When you don't care if they arrive in 10 mins or 10 hours.
Reminds of that there are actual fire department specialists that just fly drones with a heat camera.
@@sirjmoAmbulances are private (hospital corporations f.i.) or from a government organization, like fire brigade. They are financed by the national coordinator of the health insurance companies, we have mandatory health insurance overhere. The fire brigade is financed by the national and municipal governments and is organized by safety regions (Veiligheidsregio’s), in my region it coincides with the province, which is not always the case. In my town we have a fire station but not an ambulance station. An ambulance has a bigger area to cover, so the ambulance station (with only one ambulance) is more central located. For our town, the ambulance station is two towns further. When this ambulance is called to an emergency, all ambulances of the adjacent ambulance areas (of our safety region) are relocated (leave their station and park at a new temporary central location) to cover our area, so response times stay within legal limits.
FF/EMT here from the US here. I’ve always wondered about your hydrants and lay-ins? Do you ever have a far stretch, plus 150m? How much water can you flow on one and can it support multiple apparatus?
Former American firefighter here: I love this video.
Former fulltime firefighter here. Unsurprisingly, there's a huge machismo thing in the fire service and many rural departments are conservative good ole boys type of clubs of volunteers. Any sort of change or break from tradition is super duper frowned upon and hated in most of these places. Departments can vary drastically, but many US firefighters are simply and stubbornly not open to new things. No modern "euro helmets", smaller trucks, etc etc
Man, nothing was more frustrating when designing low-income housing developments and townhouse complexes than making EVERY SINGLE PAVED SECTION "firetruck turnaround compliant".
The ladders thing is particularly hilarious for the US, with it's missing middle. Buildings are all either tall enough that the ladders can't get to the top anyway, or small enough that they are not needed. The exact type of building ladders are optimal for are not present.
@@agsystems8220 As a FF, I can tell you this: long aerial ladders are actually used far more often for their horizontal REACH than their height.
An emergency service not prioritizing prevention is mind boggling
No, it's not. Consider the incentives.
We don't believe in prevention in America.
@@mojrimibnharb4584 trust me no firefighter or EMT wants to see more people get hurt and no city is purposely designing their streets to boost fire calls... there is no incentive for having more people hurt in a city for the city
the US is great at not doing prevention!
I mean, it's not their job ;D Their job is to get to handle emergencies as fast as possible.
My mom died recently at my neighbor's house (long story), and the requirement is to first call 911. They sent the police, and ems and a full aize firetruck. Btw, the fire station is about 6 blocks away. I mean, she was already dead, they could have walked over. SMH. Also my kids school is next to the same fire station and they routinely speed up and down the street. And a few times a year there is a bike to school day on which the kids ride 2 blocks on that street so the fire department pulls a truck out to block the street for safety. They are also the reason why the city can't install traffic calming on that street so kids could safely ride bikes to school. Its a total mess. Thanks for the video and im glad im not the only person who sees the absurdity here.
My condolences.
Dispatchers often receive incomplete information. They err on the side of life safety
@@stevesecret2515
And what information could be missing to require policy and a fire truck on top of EMS?
@@Jehty_ Did you ever carry a 300 lbs person down a hundred year old staircase? EMS isn't just medical treatment. You have to move the patient. You don't know what you are facing till you see it! Better to have too much help than too little. I was sent on a burn victim call and the caller failed to mention the burning couch in the basement.
You realize... all the BLS gear they carry is on the apparatus...
The footage of the firefighters complaining about bike lanes, while it was parked cars creating the real trouble was a good example of someone being so close to seeing the problem but falling short. They were so close!
I wasn't even aware of this... this is ridiculous. How can North America go so wrong in literally anything infrastructure-related?
Also, I love how you showed EMS vehicles using bike lanes, tramways, etc., because it just makes sense for them to use these ways to reduce response times. I see this happening all the time here in Germany, and I can think of many places where EMS response time is DRASTICALLY reduced because the vehicles can just hop on a tram lane and completely skip traffic queues. Let's hope NA catches on some day.
Gothenburg, Sweden has some great examples too. I visited there in June this year and I saw many emergency vehicles driving in the tram and bus lanes without interrupting the transit service at all.
@@Abcd-jz4gp Yup. Generally speaking, the root cause of much of the shittiness in the USA and Canada is: Corporate greed.
The hell is a tram?
"How can North America go so wrong in literally anything infrastructure-related?"
Besides the corruption that others mentioned in their replies, another major factor is racism. For example, a lot of opposition to public transit expansion comes from people living in areas getting the expansion for fear that *those people* will now be able to get to their neighborhood. The idea of traveling around without a metal box around you, potentially putting you in contact with *those people*, creates a lot of people who believe that using existing public transit or creating a walkable or bikeable neighborhood is unthinkable. Universal government-paid health care (which would reduce the fire departments' need to respond to medical problems) polls pretty well, until racist folks realize that *those people* will now be able to get free or cheaper health care too.
American here, it's a fool's errand to think any of our states' governments will catch on. Can't recall any time I've seen better infrastructure go through in the states I've lived in and I've sadly lived here all my life.
If I had a dollar for every time someone I knew was hit by an emergency vehicle, I'd have somewhere between 5 and 10 dollars, which doesn't sound like much, BUT WHY THE HELL ARE EMERGENCY VEHICLES HITTING SO MANY PEDESTRIANS?!
You probably didn't watch the video because emergency vehicles being directly involved into accidents (pedestrians or cars) was never mentionned in it. Also I'm skeptical that you personally know 10 different people that were hit by emergency vehicles as pedestrians. They are pretty loud.
I love how NJB is getting progressively angrier with each video he publishes
When it comes to the continued senseless death on roads due to bad design, you've got to get mad. You've got to say, "I'm a human being, goddamn it. My life has value."
It's hard not to get mad at this bs. Rest of the world shows how it's done and the US is like naaa that's communism
I've been noticing this too and I'm starting to become concerned for his well being. But at least he's somewhere with decent healthcare. :P
@@DoomPlague yeah not all of us can afford the luxury.
We should all be angry.
I work for a city fire department and I agree with you. Widen bicycle lanes so that first responders can use them when dispatched to life threatening emergencies. Make use of smaller apparatus with better maneuverability and similar capability. Enable fire departments to hire more EMTs without requiring them to be firefighters, then have them operate in aid cars (ambulances) for solely EMS response.
Fire departments are often stuck in our ways because we often say yes to take on more responsibilities that no other local government agency wants to take on. We are problem solvers, but sometimes the problem is beyond the department and is more on lack of infrastructure.
the thing with roundabouts:
if you're in a roundabout and there are emergency vehicles behind you:
JUST DO ANOTHER ROUND IN THE ROUNDABOUT, DONT STOP IN THE ROUNDABOUT
if they're after you, you'll notice
Imagine being chased by a fire truck...... Hahaha
@@1dameister1 well, if your car is on fire you might be ;)
@@oldestpartofheaven Okey, yeah that makes sense. 👍
Someone, quickly, call the fire department! There are some serious burns in this video!
LOL
😆 😆 😆
Nice!
I wanted to yell at the screen at the footage from the fire department showing their difficulties getting through "narrow" streets. It's the parked cars! It's those cars parked either side of the street! Can't you *see* them?! They're not boulders, or some other kind of natural phenomenon you just have to work around. They're cars! They don't have to be there. Gah! The street is not narrow, it's obstructed by *parked cars!*
Okay, calm down, calm down. But, yeah what is this apparent inability to see parked cars? Like drivers complaining about a cyclist slowing them down, when the only reason the cyclist is out in the middle of the lane is because there are parked cars at the side of the road.