Shamans : A Misunderstood People Revealed
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2024
- Most people will think they know what a Shaman is, but there is a very good chance they're wrong, because this video will also show how many academics also don't understand Shamanism. An interesting look at how to understand Shamanism by looking at rock art.
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📚 References
Eliade, Mircea. The Myth of the Eternal Return
Eliade, Mircea. The Sacred and Profance
Elilade, Mircea. Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstacy
Devlat, Ekaterina, 2001. “Rock Art and the Material Culture
of Siberian and Central Asian Shamanism.” In Archaeology of
Shamanism, pp. 43-55. London: Routledge.
Stutley, Margaret. 2004. Shamanism. An introduction. London:
Routledge.
Francfort, Henri-Paul, 2001. “Art, Archaeology and the
Prehistories of Shamanism in Central Eurasia.” In The Concept
of Shamanism: Uses and Abuses, pp. 243-276. Edited by Henri-Paul
Francfort and Roberte N. Hamayon. Budapest: Akadémiai Kiadó.
Chang, Kwang-chih, 1992. “The Circumpacific Substratum of
Ancient Chinese Civilization.” In Pacific Northeast Asia in Prehistory:
Hunter-Fisher-Gatherers, Farmers, and Sociopolitical Elites. Edited
by C. Melvin Aikens and Song Nai Rhee. Pullman: Washington State
University Press.
What other religous characters would you like a deeper dive into? Priests? Druids? More on Shamans?
What about the Djinn? I consider them religious characters, but I’m not sure if you do. I would love to see you do deep dive on the Djinn, either way.
Augurs please. :)
Slavic pantheons, like Perun and Svetowid
all 3!
Wise women. Healers. Herbalists. Midwives… the spiritual ties assigned to their actual work.
When I was studying Shamanism, I came across something expressed by a Siberian Shaman. "Religion is like there's a door, and there's someone on the other side of the door, and you're worshipping them. Shamanism is like, there's a door, and someone is standing in the doorway, and you're trying to push past them to get through it."
What books?
Shamans are probably those who taught those "someone" deserve worship or brought such request to other humans.
For a shaman there is a temptation to take credit where credit is due...it's necessary to remain aligned with the message
@@mavrospanayiotis I don't worship the unseen. That's nuts. I talk with it and listen with all my senses.
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 Shamanism. Mircea Eliade. Stop there.
I am really puzzled about lots of the assertions in this presentation. I have been interested in indigenous cultures, hunter-gatherer cultures, most of my life, and I'm in my mid-60s. I read Mircea Eliade's "Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy", so long ago, I can't remember when, certainly well over 30 years ago, probably nearer to 40 years ago, and it was not the first book I read on the subject. I just saw it referenced so many times, in other anthropological works I read, I thought I better read it. At the time I read it, I was already aware that Mircea Eliade's subject was comparative religion, and he was probably trying to fit shamanism, into some sort of general schema.
The first thing we need to get out of the way, is that shamans, medicine men etc, were practising some sort of early religion. The whole concept of religion, as something separate, from the mundane, some other realm, as seen in religion, simply did not exist in indigenous cultures, that had no imposition on them, of cultures with religion. Yes, they had views we'd label as spiritual, mystical, but generally, this was practical, and their world view, incorporated all this into their view of reality, which was far broader than the mundane in our culture.
I am puzzled by this view of "shamans" either in a state of ecstasy, or clear-headed thinking. The reason for wanting to enter into ecstatic states, taking hallucinogens, fasting, drum induced trances etc, was to see more clearly. These are not polar opposites, someone off their face, or someone thinking clearly, that is very much a modern western view. I'm also mighty puzzled by the idea there were no shamans in Africa. Yes, strictly speaking, there were no shamans in Africa, because both the term shaman, and some of the ritual we associate with shamanism, are central Asian, so we wouldn't expect to find this in Africa. But the idea there were no healers, because this is really what shamans primarily are, no seers or mystics, in African culture, is utterly baffling. It is layer, upon layer of misunderstanding, because central Asian shamanism, was not independent of religion, and there was back and forth, between cultures with what we recognize as religion, and cultures with shamans. It wasn't a linear one direction thing, but circular. There is also a big problem generalizing about Africa, as there were hunter-gatherer cultures, farming and pastoral and civilizations, which were polar opposites - often a divide that had existed for thousands of years. Many African cultures have deep-seated prejudices against hunter-gathers, as big as in any western culture. The idea all African culture is similar, because they're all non-white, is a common colonial misconception.
Coming back to shamans being healers, or seers. This was a necessary role in all indigenous cultures, that didn't see the clear-cut boundaries between other realms, the everyday, the divine, medical and everything else we see in our culture. So there was a need for individuals, or even many people, because in some indigenous cultures, the "shamans" aren't specialist individuals, but can be a lot of the community to be able to enter into this. Healing in most indigenous cultures that were documented, almost nearly always involved interaction with what we'd call spirituality, today, not medicine as we now see it. Also, hunting, movement, and migration, also involved some sort insight, of the type we'd now call mysticism, or spirituality. This is why all documented indigenous cultures, necessarily had to find a way of getting to this insight, for very practical everyday reasons, and often it was individuals with special talents, or who trained in this. Hence medicine men, seers, shamans or whatever you want to call them, being universal across all indigenous cultures, and undoubtedly it was a part of human culture going back to non-modern humans. As non-human animals, consume mind-altering substances deliberate, there is no reason whatsoever, to suppose, that this was not also part of early hominid cultures. It's too much to go into, in detail. But having read a lot of literature on rock art, ancient art and paintings, I do find it funny, how much consists of modern people, with modern cultural views, projecting modern concepts back in time. That there is very little understanding of hunter-gatherer peoples, which is why I always prefer first-hand accounts by them, not schema imposed on them, by anthropologists. How, modern anthropologists, often see hunting, is laughably naive. With them constantly conflating modern hunting, with ancient hunting.
Thank you for this, I appreciate it and agree with you. Even with the purest intentions, I think it is misleading to describe or try to understand these spiritual/mystic roles through our western, material perception of the world. It sort of assumes that all people have the same experience when perceiving life. I do not think that is the case. It is easy for a Western perspective to dismiss the idea of mystics, or disregard someone's mystic experience, mainly because we do not perceive the world in a way that allows us to understand these things.
@@stephenbarlow2493 thank u for this comment. Very well put Sir... couldn't of said it better myself.
In modern Korea, traditional shamanism is still practiced. Traditional Korean shamans are called mudang (무당) in modern Seoulite Korean language. There are male mudangs, but there are more female mudangs. Before Korea modernized, mudangs were treated as the lowest class of society for at least 500 years. The pre-modern Korean kingdom (Joseon), which adopted Confucianism as its social legal principle, collapsed in 1910, but society's perception of mudangs is still negative.
It is said that a spirit asks a person to become a mudang to serve him, and if (s)he accepts, (s)he goes to an older mudang to receive an initiation ceremony. During this process, most subjects refuse to become mudangs, so they try to drive out the spirits with the power of Buddhism or Christianity.
However, if the exorcism fails or if (s)he decides to accept the spirits on his/her own, (s)he becomes a mudang. I once heard a story about a grandmother who decided to become a mudang instead of her grandson/granddaughter who was a mudang subject. If a mudang had to be produced from a family, it would be better for an old person who would die soon to become a mudang instead of a young person who subject had many years left to live.
Are there many 'trans/nonbinary' people in this group? to use rather western terminology?
This sounds like an old way to describe psychosis.
No.
All the Mongolian, Manchurian rulers as well as Chinese & Korean kings before Confucianism took hold were shamans or practiced shamanism.
I think one of the Problems in understanding Shamanism is that this relies on an implied monoculture, where there are multiple ones with multiple concepts that we describe as Shamanism.
Druids! Druids! Druids!
Also more on Australian mythologies!
Sorry, meant Austronesian. How it changed across the Pacific would be fascinating
@@MxIzmir or maybe it’s a sign ! MORE AUSTRALIAN MYTHOLOGY!
The Sami people of Scandinavia also have a long tradition of Shamanism.
Yes, but what do we mean by long? Probably as long as they have been considered a seperate culture? Less than 10k years, maybe even 5-6k?
If I remember correctly a king of medieval Norway forbade his subjects to go to Lapland to learn 'magic'. Maybe it's shamanic practices.
Fascinating! I am really glad to become acquainted with this study of ancient religions in which such distinctions are being made. It appears to me that Shinto (which I practice) has some relationship with Shamanism. The shaman I met at Baikal (Valentin Khagdaev) had a kamidana in his home, at about eye level like mine, with an item on it (a bell on a rope), which is exactly what I had brought along with myself from a Shinto shrine on Mt. Fuji. He and I noted other similarities. I'm no expert, obviously, but fascinated.
The word "shaman" originated in the Tungusic languages of North Asia, and is believed to have roots that go back at least two millennia. The word comes from the Tunguso-Manchurian verb "sa", which means "to know" or "to heat oneself". One translation of "šaman" is "to burn up; to set on fire", which may signify the ancient shaman's inspired fever-like trance.
The term "shaman" was introduced to the West after Russian forces conquered the shamanistic Khanate of Kazan in 1552. The earliest known use of the word "shaman" in English is from 1698, in A. Brand's Journal Embassy from Muscovy into China. The word Shaman, while in modern day as a catch all word, is in fact Asian. But has similarities to multiple other traditions (Völva, practitioners of seiðr, for example)
The seidis and sites of magickal prowess in Hungary are detailed by Diozegi... cite yer sources er be sighted on site! Samanas (my people) and the Sami, Samic reindeer-caribou people of the arctic are the sources of Santa Claus(e). That and the axis mundi.
India, Elder Vedas, Soma and Samana.... have fun. 3-5000 yrs.
You also have the Nojd/Nojadi among the Sami people. The predecessors of the Sami originated (for lack of a better word) in current day Russia, but wandered in to Finland, Sweden and Norway thousands of years ago (precisely how long ago is under heated debate), bringing their shamanistic tradition along with them. It is highly likely this greatly influenced the magic traditions of the other Nordic people groups.
Looking into Hebrew I came across a word that's phonetically the same as shaman, spelled basically SHMN. It means 'to be fat with oil' and I believe is connected to 'shemen', which is olive oil.
@@thaumatik could have been loan words from the Canaanites contact with Indo European cultures.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to grasp that core concepts-- core instincts in humans can be rooted in the same fundamentals while also having wide-ranging differences in practices and traditions. Human dialects can differ from town to town; why is it so outlandish to believe that other human practices arent rooted in the same beliefs but take on new forms with different groups of people based on their own cultural needs, tastes and natural surroundings? I guess it all depends on what we define as 'shamanism', which I'm not sure we'll ever come to a consensus on.
I agree, our concepts are contextual to our culture. For example in the western concept of consciousness we include the idea of “the self”, and part of why we are more inclined to accept presupposed ideas (like the Cartesian dualism) is rooted in (although not only) within our grammar.
Hence someone with completely different culture will find concept that fit their experiences of their phenomenological world.
If languages and cultures are só different, why there are so many similar imagery, religious and metaphysical concepts? The Underworld, heaven, Spirit, a Universal Spirit, animals like the stags? While it may be hard to empirically prove this, it is not necessarily untrue. There are things that are not dependent on empirical facts to be true. A shaman's journey into other realms, Plotinus' henosis, a yogi's samadhi, to name a few. They are personal truths, and as such, can only be proven personaly, not otherwise.
One of my very favorite channels.
Thank you for educating us by way of far more exact truths on these matters given to us for our benefit. Excellently done and Bravo for sharing your vast knowledge, in great detail, to all of us.❤
Thank you for your kind words, they are appreciated.
In that first picture, I don't see a man laying down in ecstasy, I see a man knocked down by some kind of bovine (Bull? Yak? Auroch?) The animal has his head lowered in a butting position. The duck on a stick might be a name, saying whose death is being honored here - or perhaps held up as a cautionary tale ("Whatever you do, young'uns, don't approach the animal from the front like poor ol' Mr. Duckstick did!")
Kind of like an ancient “don’t pet the fluffy cows” PSA. 😂
Lol
Not to say that you can't interpret it your own way, but just saying that people who dedicate their entire lives to the study of this kind of things probably have an advantage on how to interpret it. Not that they're necessarily right because they're experts, but their opinions do carry a bit more weight.
@@flingonber Of course they do. I'm not anti-science or education or any of that.
Yet everyone has blind spots based on expectations, and in archaeology/paleontology that blind spot has often been seeing everything as ritual objects unless some other use immediately comes to mind. For instance, for year the experts assumed that "batons" were ritual objects until somebody figured out that they were tools for spinning ropes. Or that Roman dodecahedrons were mysterious occult objects until knitters discovered that they made perfect tools for knitting gloves.
I'm not averse to seeing spiritual meanings in ancient things. I come from a culture that still practices those things and I have personally benefited twice from the aid of medicine-men. But I also know firsthand how easy it is for people outside of "shamanic" cultures to misinterpret them. There are many kinds of expertise, and they work best together.
Yeah, its always good to remember that ancient art can be just as trivial or childish as modern art at times. Although looking at that picture I would guess that the bull was done separately, its style is totally different.
I too would like to see more on the slavic pantheon. I'd also like to see you comment on Black Elk.
@@cecilnewson8876 If you're talking about Black Elk, the Lakota visionary then someone who is Lakota. I have siblings (same mother, different father) who are descendants of Black Elk via their great-grandfather Frank Fools Crow. Non-Lakota/non-Native people should not speak as if they're experts. Native people still exist and we need to speak for ourselves rather than European people trying to speak for us through their filter. We continually have non-Lakota/non-Native people continually trtimg to come into our spaces trying to be authorities on ceremonies we have had for thousands of years and bringing misogyny and bigotry.
You are right. What is your thought about John Neihardt in this context?
Once I heard people of a small nation say that they were glad anthropologists wrote down their knowledge about traditions and plant uses, as this would otherwise have been lost due to the boarding school system.
Ho metakuye oyasin. ❤
Okay I finished the video and wanted to comment again! At the beginning when you first brought up Mircea eliade (sp?) I was a little nervous because of certain spiritual corners of the internet I have intentionally moved away from, that use those books as the justification for all sorts of interesting conspiracy theories about our "true history" 😂 I'm glad that you didn't disappoint, yet again, in giving a comprehensive and educational view of the subject that actually makes sense. Thanks for the rationality ❤
Thank you.
@@CrecganfordThanks for cutting through the noise.
Perhaps the greatest disservice to this field of research was "Start Your Own Religion", Timothy Leary 1967. It took me 15 years to cut through the nonsense that was published by the devotees of "The Earth Mysteries" as a result. That is not to say that their beliefs and numinous experiences are any less valid than the articles of faith of any other religion. However, the proliferation of claims about 'lost knowledge' (thanks, Plato) added noise which drowned out the signals from archaeology and mythology in my narrow field of research - mazes.
I know people who like to enter "altered states." They might dance, paint, or write down their epiphanies. I can imagine someone coming across their ephemera 2000 years from now, but they are not, by any stretch, shamans.
Has anyone asked a Shaman?
does the guy walking around with a bouquet of mushrooms at a Phish show count?
@@that44rdv4rkwhich mushrooms did he have?
@@chocoquark4831 Not sure which mushrooms... witch mushrooms? Maybe.
@@that44rdv4rk There are tribes in Siberia that still have them.
@@that44rdv4rk yes it does
This is my favorite topic for discussion, seconded by Druids. The topic has stimulated my imagination for over thirty years- Eliade's Shamanism was quite activating for me as a twenty year-old. Thanks for submitting a grounded and sensible perspective on this topic- I look forward to more.
I'm currently reading a Russian historic lo-fantasy novel called The Heart of Parma (not exact translation). It's set in the 16th century, in the modern day Perm region. The story follows the (Muscovy) Russian prince Michael, who inherits the Cherdyn Principality, one of the polities in the Perm region. Perm in the 16th century was shamanistic, so Michael has to mediate between Christians - who are his own people - and the local "pagans", who are the people of his wife. Not sure how historically accurate the depiction of shamans here is, but it's still interesting stuff, and the author apparently did quite a research into the region's history when writing the novel.
Also, about shamans. I've read that in some cultures it's believed that a shaman is chosen by spirits, so not just anyone can become one. Basically, you have to enter a special state, and if you survive, you will be deemed eligible to become a shaman.
Also, in Romanian folklore there are characters called Solomonari\ Zgrimintziesh who are generally described as wizards that ride dragons and can control weather and heal or curse people with diseases. What's curious is that their description has some common traits with shamans in that one cannot simply become a Solomonar, instead having to be born with specific traits, which would make them eligible for training.
Muscovy.Moscow.muscaria.muscimol.... I don't see a connection... Hallucinating? No. It is all real.
People name themselves after the special states of sacred ecstasy that form the base of all religions. Shamans are not chosen, really, it is a trick of DNA and circumstance... something is there and has to be triggered... not psychotic reaction or PTSD type, but inspired, invited and sometimes pushed and thrust willy nilly into the void, surviving somewhat intact to come out, shut up, listen and then feed the real need. It is not in a book. It is a way of life, a Tao, a Wyrd.
Hey Jon, I've said before that my wife is a Higaonon baylan in Northern Mindanao Philippines. While for those who don't know, she comes across as an ordinary Filipina grandmother, she has been trained as a young girl by her maternal grandmother, who was also a baylan. Her grandmother saw in her someone who had contact with the spirits, and taught her the healing herbs, and hilot massage. In the Philippines, the baylan, babaylan, or katalonan has always been a prominent member of tribal communities. Usually female, but also sometimes male, they are as important as the datu, the tribal chief, who was usually male. Austronesian culture in the Philippines is certainly four thousand years old, so that ties in with what you mentioned in this video. Of course, the Aeta people in the Philippines have been here for forty thousand years. I don't know if they have shamanistic beliefs. My wife also recognises in me the ability to recognise the spirits, and to have precognitive dreams. She believes that our relationship was "tadhana"... "destiny". While she is not currently practising in her tribal community, she is certainly a baylan. She knows, and can perform, the relevant rituals, and holds the traditional tribal beliefs, and speaks the tribal language, Higaonon Binukid. I doubt there is anyone else commenting here who has a relationship with a modern shaman.
Wow, that is fascinating!
@@Crecganford What is even more amazing is that where she has lived since 1996, her neighbour is a male baylan. She also recounted recently a story that one of her daughters, when only small, stuck her finger in a hole, and was stung by what my wife described as a bee. Her daughter had a reaction to the sting. She took the little girl to a baylan. The baylan performed a healing ritual, blowing on her daughter's forehead. She said that almost immediately, her daughter recovered. I guess the reason to go to another baylan was that she was not actually practising as a baylan herself. There is magic in rituals.
Although most may not like the way he carries himself, Dr. Ammon Hillman certainly maintains a scientific approach to ancient Greek translations. I wouldnot recommend his channel to most, because he seems a bit off the wall. However, his scientific approach reveals data that should be analysed by a person with your background. I think that the DATA he brings to the table might help you to paint an even more detailed picture for you and your audience. Thanks for being you Jon. I always look forward to Saturday because of your uploads.
Agreed
I would tack on, everything he says he can back up, which is more than i can say for a lot of people.
Ammon is the man.
@@Aleks.Markov I totally agree! He's a world-changer. I watch everything he does. He was recently interviewed by a scientist. They were discussing how AI programs could eventually simulate potions by virtually combining the ingredients that Dr. Ammon has translated from Galin. That would be very interesting, while still being ethically noncontroversial.
Dr. Ammon Hillman's scholarship is impeccable. His Philologist skills are incomparable. His non-apologetic honesty is thrilling. And obviously not profitable. As he deals with many of the taboo textual issues.
Such as sacred sex and hallucinogenics and non-heterosexuality and even pederasty? And he makes it all lots of fun if you can follow along. Which he works hard to help us do. His persona is like Jack Karouac or other "Beats" from the 195O's.
As he is a bit wild and crazy and kind of Dionysian and very in the moment. But always brilliant and always fun. So check the Doctor out at his" LadyBabylon" right here on TH-cam.💙
So appreciate your straight forward delivery
At 2:54, you write Mircea Eliada, I thought the correct spelling was Mircea Eliade? You see, I am paying attention! Subscribed.
Well spotted! In my head I always try to pronouce the last syllable correctly, and probably wrote it as I thought it! Thank you.
I have understood shamans to be the early day mystics. Enlightened people revered within their groups because of their wisdom and experience with the other world. A book, Wizard of the upper Amazon, is a persons experience of being kidnapped and assimilated into the tribe with the use of Ayahuasca. The ability to transcend language to understand each other, and furthermore to experience through the eyes of animals which they encounter, which was a way to learn about the animals which where the apex predator and could not be viewed in action with their own eyes because of the immediate danger of doing so. The Shamans were well respected teachers and healers of what we would deem today 'the occult'.
It's good to know what we still don't know! 👍
A pity many cannot accept that there is so much that we do not, and probably never will, know; and accept that this is an acceptable way to be.
I have great respect for your work and I am grateful for your videos every single one!
Just a minor note: The way you pronounce Mircea Eliade - you got Eliade right, but Mircea sounds more like Mir-cha ( like the dance cha cha)
Yes, you’re right, although I did get Eliade wrong on the first attempt in this video as well.
There is a form of shamanic expression that is almost Zen in its simplicity. Taoist shamans did not need ritual or ceremony or artifacts of human fabrication. They took it from what is, not what they think about it. It is not easy, but it is easier and carries less baggage. It does not need a book, but it does need to be recognized by others as functional, not a personal performance of pretense. Don't try this at home.
Thank you for this very considerate discussion of shamanism. When I read the headline I was wondering if your conclusion would be that shamans are "a people". At the end I understand that shamans are practitioners of certain rituals and/or ecstatic exercies and members of certain specific peoples and cultures and times.
1st thing I thought when I saw the guy lying down - was that he was dead. I think the bird hit him in the head. Didn't mean to. He was just flying drunk.
I laughed way to hard at that!
I agree. And now his poor pet buffalo is just standing there going, "WTF just happened?"
After 5 years reading every modern religion and every ancient script, I have learned the path to resurrection through leaving the body with the aid of medicine plants inducing a near death experience to face judgment. There is a hidden level to all scripture only visible when outside the human frequency and day to day emotional autopilot. When my lips go numb and breathing stops I am able to leave this insignificant yet beautiful human dream and awaken into the full councioisness. This is the place that prophets used to visit on the regular.. Long before the current state of spiritual darkness
The evidence for a Maya-China continuum reminds of those who think there's some special meaning behind every civilization's use of pyramids. How else would you pile up a lot of rocks?
@@Valdagast carved megalithic blocks aren't a "pile of rocks". That's reductionist. That's like saying your home, or even the white house, is a pile of sticks.
@@Baptized_in_Fire. Fair point.
Other things not mentioned. They get a spirit animal at level 2 or 3 and their spells are a blend of spells found on the druid and witch classes.
Came to find this
This is the video game or RPG?
@@smillstill ye, dumb joke I expected to see and didn't. So I did, because it belonged here
@@smillstill i am guessing Pathfinder.
What if a shaman is actually a type of person which emerges in humanity regardless of training and ritual practice? What if they are a genomic archetype which emerges organically, serving as one which questions assumptions and sees/sits outside the cultural narrative and activities in order to provide perspective and solutions to problems in the present paradigms? Who are the shamans in modern Western culture, for instance? Are they still present? Our seekers & questioners, spiritual practitioners, experimenters with consciousness, etc?
@@abigailseden8821 Yes! Exactly!
I can tell you that my personal history as a human being has led me to believe exactly what you have said here. I believe that any given population will give rise to a person of spirit eventually in order to intervene between the spirit and that population they are born into.
@@walkswithwings7780 From my experience, it does seem to be a feature or function that keeps presenting.
The next question is how does a culture recognise and integrate these people. The shamans of modern western culture could be some artists, but mostly people locked away in madhouses. Culture needs to have a framework for these things to be articulated in a way that make sense to the culture, that supports the collective.
Shamans are choosing individuals that’s put here for purpose in life we need shamans as Myself to approach life in a different expectation of living
A carrier of generational wisdoms, our ancestors knew the science of our world in a way that's largely lost.. By design it seems 🙏
I’m usually strongly against ai thumbnails but this one was very cool
It's interesting that in the Lascaux caves that the animals were depicted with such accuracy that Przewalski horses were determined to be present in Paleolithic western Europe but the people weren't depicted with much importance. Stick figures. What does that tell us? Maybe each artist, like modern people hopefully, was an individual and thus creating a model to explain everyone's collective behaviour at a previous time is fraught with the same difficulty as it would be doing so in modern times.
I'd be so interested to hear and learn about colour in mythology and history 😊
Have you ever listened to a music band called Heilung? They make shamanic music based on Bronze and Iron Age runic inscriptions.
Absolutely. But practice must be structured, and ritual followed conservatively. I know that's NOT any problem :)
This is really interesting. That first rock art with the guy laying down next to a bird seems like a wild stretch but at least the others look reasonable. I wonder why we think people dressing up and banging drums were always shamans. I would be amazed if drums didn't originally come about just for fun, making music with your friends. Somewhere along the line these things are incorporated into spiritual practices, maybe almost immediately, maybe not for a very long time. How could we know?
We know a lot about modern religions lifting successful bits of older religions (not necessarily cynically). Maybe our ancestors liked to wear costumes and make music, telling each other stories at night. Over the course of a millennium that is taken up as a spiritual practice. I'm not sure how you could tell the difference from a painting.
Interesting. Thank you for sharing.
Academic world sticked to the term "shaman" so much it is used to describe any ritual specialist a culture can have as a figure.
One very difficult thing about tracking down shamanism throughout history is that they are mostly within iniciatic orders, that means that symbols are constructed to be inconspicuous to people outside the order, but deeply meaningful to those within. Whether thats always been true since the beginning of shamanism or is something more recent, I think the way evidence is structured stops us from being able to know, since only an iniciate would be able to tell the difference between an ordinary art and a shamanic art.
I also think that the explicit depiction of shamanic practices later in history might reflect social and historical contexts where shamans were either very open about their rituals, which is usually not the norm, or hunted, and the depictions where so people could identify them One very difficult thing about tracking down shamanism throughout history is that they are mostly within iniciatic orders, that means that symbols are constructed to be inconspicuous to people outside the order, but deeply meaningful to those within. Whether thats always been true since the beginning of shamanism or is something more recent, I think the way evidence is structured stops us from being able to know, since only an iniciate would be able to tell the difference between an ordinary art and a shamanic art.
I also think that the explicit depiction of shamanic practices later in history might reflect social and historical contexts where shamans were either very open about their rituals, which is usually not the norm, or hunted, and the depictions where so people could identify them
To this point, it really does just become a problem of language. Personally I'd say a shaman doesn't have to be someone necessarily dancing with a drum but I'd point to a categorization of more neuroscientific and psychological, symptoms. Altered states of consciousness like that of drugs, psychosis, disassociation, etc. And genetics / DNA that points to these.
Good video Crec
Thanks for another fascinating video!!
My understanding on the topic is that shamanic practices of various cultures simply varied application of techniques per circumstance and occasion. ( in example: normally, you wouldn't drink a certain tea to cause you to peel off seven layers of sanity just to do an arrow extraction surgery. Likewise, you wouldn't want to really go in bone sober to a cease fire negotiation against a spirit who could flay your spirit from your meat suit. One ceremony is required for one situation, another for another, including regional variences and milage differences. 😂)
Oof I'm so early, I should be a paleolithic painter 🙃
I think what people fail to consider is that humans also sometime just like silly hats, to dress up, express themselves in fun or expressive ways. My teenager went through a frog hat phase for instance.
I’m mostly kidding, but, sometimes the explanation is the simplest one.
I used to think this and over time found it was connected to my personal 'animist spiritualism'. I think ultimately donning a mask/wearing a costume/associating yourself with animal features is both good, innocent fun and a form of spiritual expression.
Hey! I could definitely get BEHIND a silly hat! But only the "right" silly hat! Because, if it's wrong, THEN....
I found it amusing that many archaeological 'mysteries' were cleared up, or at least given alternative practical solutions, when women's opinions were finally taken seriously.
The more different opinions that are sought, the better we are likely to understand archaeological artefacts and art.
My teenagers also loved silly hats and other forms of self expression.
Interesting video, but I'm not sure I agree with the assertion 'no shamans in Africa'. At least a superficial examination seems to show the Samgosas in South Africa have very similar practices - drumming, ecstatic trance, visiting the spirits to perform healings. Equally, there are certainly some similiarities with Yoruba traditions. What would be interesting is to use the mythology database (if it doesn't already) to also include some 'practices', not just myth. Ie) use of drums to enter ecstatic trance and commune with spirits, or how many religions/cultures have a 'communion' service
The whole point is that a Shaman is such a loose defination, there could be many, or none.
@Crecganford what's interesting with your genetic analyses is how you side step many times the issues of 'how things are called and defined', and pick out the 'genes'. I'd love to know what are the 'genes' commonly associated with shamanism, and whether they could be traced back to a common source, just like with the myths. I would imagine it might be trickier because some practices could be independently discovered, ie) if drumming can get one into a trance state, this should be easy enough to discover in isolation, because of our shared Biology. And other practices could be highly regional, because they depend on plants or mushrooms growing in the area. At the same time, the idea of performing a healing by drumming, getting into a trance, and going on a journey to meet the spirits (ancestors or some sort of gods), seems specific enough to imply there is some common root?
A drum is carried by Shiva, who is also associated with animals. Ditto re a possible precusor from the older Indus Valley civilization. Drums are 'shamanic,' used to achieve a trance state and to enter altered reality. Shiva, the Adiguru, is the root guru for Indian yogic teachings, and can be dated before the Pleistocene, using the now widely-accepted dates of 'The Historic Rama,' by Niiesh Nilkanth Oak. After reading that book, it seems reasonable not to dismiss Indian written records, including math and astronomy, that Shiva dates even farther back to the Sattva yuga.
The Yoga sutras of Patanjali are quite specific. There are eight steps to samadhi (expanded consciousness) and one of the manifestations along the way is vibhutis (magical powers and manifestation of phenomena). There are also rituals and techniques and sound mantras, and great respect for forest academies and daily observance of the Dhuni fire.
That all seems so shamanic that maybe there are links to follow back deeper into the past. Sri M, a yogi so highly regarded in India that he was awarded the padma bhushan, the highest civilian award given by the government, is in a line of gurus which goes back to Adiguru Shiva. If all of this holds together, in YT videos by Sri M, one might be looking at a modern representative of aspects of an ancient, possibly worldwide shamanic tradition.
Is this also found in Native American shamanism? A sharman on the 'beauty way'' is a visionary who guides people and the community in beneficial ways, and helps with healing the 'web of life' and brotherhood and sisterhood of humans and nature.
A fascinating presentation. Could you put your camera on a separate table? Your image wobbles quite a bit as you gesture.
Yes, that's good feedback. Thank you.
#1 DRUGS, others Dreams, working yourself into a frenzy, near death experience, sickness......he interpreted the bird but...6:05-6:13 laying down in ecstasy, what about the beast in front of him in ecstasy, how does he interpret that?
At first glance all the sand on the beach looks the same, but on closer examination No two grains of sand are the same. This is true with shamans, each brings their natural predilections and personal taste into the art. But the main thrust is the same, an attempt to discribe life, death and the universe, which we all share . Shamanism in my opinion more than likely predates homo spaiens by a long shot and may include other homonids and many other speices as well. I can only say that when any living being recognizes mortality in their own way will end up asking the fundamental question, why, in their own way .And the answers and explainations are as veried as the grains of sand on the beach. ( please forgive any gramatical errors )
I like that description, thank you.
I would like to hear about the blacksmiths ties to shaman and their practices. In the Encyclopedia of shamanism they are mentioned as brothers.
An interesting video, puzzling, but a good video since it made me think. Are "therians" linked to Shamanism or is it merely a "modern" invention?
It looks like a more modern invention, but it is complex and this video was to get people to start line of exploring shamanism and to understand it isn't an easy topic to research.
@@Crecganford I think a video about the history of theriantropy would be very interesting, there's a modern culture around it but it's still rooted in a very old concept
How do you know that the wheels aren't drums, but shields.
Regarding academics and rock art: show a picture to a group of 50 aspiring or practised writers and ask them to write the story of the picture.
You will get 50 different stories. All of them could be true, but none of them are factual.
Again, IMO, rock art is most probably, typically, a form of sympathetic magic and shamanism is but one aspect of sympathetic magic. Sympathetic magic continues in the world in the form of, eg voodoo curses and "knock on wood", and, arguably modern structured religions; a belief in the unbelievable and the unproveable.
Quantum physics, Einsteins hated "spooky action at a distance" is, in my view, an example of, and an explanation of sympathetic magic: the map IS the terrain; the medium IS the message; as above, so below.
Dear John. I subscribe to and enjoy your videos. I went to patreon to join as a paying member but patreon told me that you are no longer accepting paid members? Best regards, Sheila
Yes, you can join as a free member, but I won't accept paying members again until next month.
The Shaman were the first humans to use the WORD and ART to teach.
Symbology
That is the role of the arts with;
- the Collective unconsciousness
- Zeitgeist
- Philosophy
- Psychology
- The MEDIUM is the message
Create rituals of learning, establish social archetypes and provide a mythology for everyone to believe in.
To teach humans new to themselves about themselves, and introduce the world in which they exist.
The true Shaman can analyze the human condition, and utilizing existing data perform forms of "Game theory" to predict with probability, future events to unfold due to cause n' effect.
Communing with spirits would most likely involve people's ideas of "Daemons" - See the Greek meaning. Which are no different beside language then "Muses" be they spirit or angel.
"Demons" would be considering Archons or evil D'Jinn.
The use of psychedalics regarding psychology and psychological trauma is pretty apparent.
Shaman's were early psychologists who used literature and art to teach, while incorporating holisitic medicine and psychadelics.... you know, everything that the "Powers-that-be" are against or have corrupted.
This has been replaced by the materialism of the scientist aka The Alchemist.
there is a vast shamanic tradition in the andes that may date some 1000 - 1500 years, they too had many ways to induce trance, the point was to atune to the universal origin of everything.
I was going to be a shaman. But I couldn't find someone to sponsor me into the union. The federation of shaman is a pretty strong union, so a lot of people want to join.
"Seek and ye shall find" what you want to find - even if it ain't there. Maybe ESPECIALLY if it ain't there.
Technicians of the Sacred - Jerome Rothenberg - opened some windows for me.
Thanks Jon 😊💕
Like #13. Good thing that I'm not a Templar.
Likely story, Baphomet lover.
It's always great to learn about THE EMPEROR 's forefathers.
Great video creganford
Thank you.
It really depends on the definition of shamanism. If it means beeting a drum and dance until trance, then the question is when was the drum invented.
I associate it more with the stories from greenland. The drum beets itself as symbol the shaman is on the way to the otherworld. But i can imagine, these stories originated in old siberia.
It wouldn't have to be a drum. Could be anything that produces sound, like stone to stone.
What would be the difference between a Witch and a Shaman? Don't both names mean "Healer"? No doubt there are many form of witchcraft, from Herbalist to "Headoligist", Nurses- Midwives and Dullas to Faith Healers. What does the local population need? Jean Auel's Mog Or did many things, but he was a fantasy, but then, isn't that what all religions, understandings of the Universe, Human culture is? The major religions of any age were and are political-economic entities, tied to giving people answers they want at a price they can afford and power over those people to the leaders, at a price they can afford. What about the universal nature of the Shamanic, why are there so many similarities? Despite cultural differences, Human interpretations of real events are limited by the Human mind and that by the human brain. However, one other thing as happened, The Witch's Sabbath or the Shaman's Moot, a gathering of such people, held every few years, to share experiences and methods of action and ritual, to give real answers to the child's "whying" questions, asked by tribal leaders and common members alike. Much like a modern "Convention", information is created and shared over a larger distance and then moved on by use of the Witch-Shamans. Look to the stories, those called "Fairy Tales" and Podcasts for how and why such information was and is shared.
@@fredwood1490 Modern witch craft and Wicca are descended from Kabbalath. Shamanism, which has existed around the world since ancient times, is totally separate from the Abrahamic systems and existed millenia before they conceptualized the Kabbalist Tree of Life. So the roots of shamanism are totally separate from witch craft and the major influences are radically different (Crowley dramatically influenced Wicca etc).
@@racheldawn65 My experience in Wicca has been that is descends from childhood fantasies, with smatterings of whatever religion the Witch grew up with. We have Jewitches, Chriswitches, Dragonwitches, Stonerwitches, and the fantasies of what may have been found in books read and reread.(I am partial to Terry Pratchett) This comes from 40 years of observation in Florida, with the Pagan Allied Network, Phonix Phyre, The Florida Pagan Gathering, several other umbrella groups and my own Coven, Dragonwood, all in all, several thousand Witches. But, you are right about the Kabbalah being an influence, as are most exotic religious philosophies. On Coven I know of requires an IQ of 140 to get in and it is concerned with ritual as a form of meditation. The point being that of having a personal relationship with Deity. Before there were schools of thought, there were dreams and observation and gut feelings as well as ambition and greed, all reflected in the Shamonic and in Wicca.
Bedankt
Thank you so much for your support, it is very much appreciated.
Finally I can comment
Shamanism is based in nightmare. Psychoactive stuff grants us with nightmares while awake. Understanding nightmares won't be found while lies are all we can tell.
Thank you for your search and research. Maybe there are more ways to approach the subject. And then again what is the definition. There might be differences between a Noide, a Kam, or an Angakok, or how the different people call these types of persons. But what I understand is that this (parttime) specialist is the only one in a animistic hunter-gatherer society that has a (sometimes hereditary) specialism, perhaps because ‘he’ is unable to be a hunter, as ‘spirits’ like illness and mental difficulties are seen in an animistic worldview. The role therefore is to find a way to cope with this on in the spirit world and be there for the people around, in coping with the spirits of animals for the hunters, and helping in illnesses and other problems in the spirit realm.
If you use a description like this, there might be have been some archaic type of spirit worker early in the global spreading of people. But with changes in societies, and specializations, these would disappear, except for there were still small scale animistic societies, like those Bronze Age ‘classical’ shamans of Eurasia. Not all Siberian shamans had drums as attributes, some had staffs, with objects hanging from them making sounds. In the Americas shakers were used, and there is a cave picture of e horned person who seem to use a musical bow towards the animals/animal spirits. The musical bow is original of the yews harp. Rhythm and plant spirit knowledge seem to be important.
In this approach priests, druids, magicians, African medicine men etc. fall outside the scope of the definition, just like certain Neolithic specialists in more advanced societies. There might have been some intermediate situations.
Just some thinking 💭
Yes, thank you for your thoughts. The video's purpose was to make people think, and just because people say something is, doesn't mean it is, it often depends on context and nuance. And I think it managed that judging by many responses.
Hello again, Jon White.
Hello!
Since shamanism is alive nowadays with shamans actively practicing, I find it a bit odd to consider it a mystery.
You can literally travel the world to learn multiple forms of shamanism and when you do, you'll see that their practices are so similar that the only reason that they're different is the context of the living environment and to some extent the values of the local culture.
Are their no modern shamans who could help us understand their history and their world? 💙
Unless you have written sources or artwork, it is only what vocal history is passed on, and how much of it is diluted and changed through time and other influences.
There are, but stories and beliefs change with time.
@@Crecganford Look into India. The origin of shamanism is in india , where it is called Tantra. They have detailed scriptures talking about tantra and how it started. The origin of tantra was started by Lord Shiva and his disciples spread these knowledges from generation to generation.
So nice to have a video made up entirely of conjecture and speculation. Not a waste of time at all. 😐
If we ever talked about only the things that are absolute, we would soon have nothing to talk about.
Thanks!
Thank you for your support, it is appreciated.
Animism is a belief system that all things, including humans, have souls, while shamanism is a practical application of animist beliefs that allows shamans to interact with spirits
I must object! I’m drinking coffee. Carry on.
Glad I finished interesting
Maybe I missed it but if shamanism is relatively recent, is there any connecion between the shamans of Finland / Siberia etc and South America?
It is evidence of shamanism that is lacking, and how we define it. I will make another video diving deeper on the subject, but I wanted to create as video to make people think and I hope I have done that.
If shamanism was as late as Bronze age, how could it reach the Americas? Particularly southern America?
Did it "reach" America, or was it just a way people there decided to practice religion?
It didn't need to "reach" anything. Shamanism isn't an organized religion like Christianity. It's a way for the people at the time to practice their beliefs and their understanding of the world. Call them shamans, call them druids. Their function within a tribe was practically the same and as such it makes sense for a person with a function akin to that of a shaman or druid to be present on different continents.
@@Crecganford No matter how you see it or call it, it was not invented similar ways everywhere in the world. Shamanism had to invented somewhere to spread all around.
@@Toxicpoolofreekingmascul-lj4yd There is no alternative to agriculture for improving plant production after rationalisation of collecting. Thus, it had to be invented sooner or later, no matter where. There are alternatives to shamanism for hunting.
Very strange question. Much like how could differnt people build pyramids. Things can spring up apart from each other but still be Very similar.
Can we know anything about the cultural world of the Ancient North Eurasians?
In times when humans were spread very thin and life had so much risk in it, it wouldn't be logical to have a single person carry all the knowledge or skill in a particular topic. That level of specialisation wouldn't have existed 40,000 or 20,000 years ago. If the knowledge is important you need to spread it among the group members, surely?
Yes, I think any hierarchical structure was much flatter the further back you go.
Elders would have been the bearers of common knowledge and stories.
Dan!!! I'm writing a paper and I can't remember the term for when a Mythological pantheon prioritizes one God, help me out???
You won't find this on Google but the Peruvians don't pronounce it Shae man". The first part is short, closer to CH than SH. Followed by an aw not an A. So chaw. And the last part also has an aw not an amazing. So spelled out maybe chaw mawn. Meaning spirt man, or healing man. A man connected to nature in a way that can help you heal
You are either born with the Platonic Mania or your not, sorry folks but that's just the way it is.
I like sex!
Amazing video mate. 🙏 hail.
Thank you.
We often forget an important aspect of these things. Most of western culture is now heavily (very heavily) influenced by linear Greek style thought processes. This wasn't true in the ancient times, say before 500 BCE. To use an example deliberately from another time and place, the Vikings. They were traders, express, raiders and even pillagers. Including the practice of taking slaves or fathering children not always with concentration of the woman, nor even bring her into their community as a wife or concubine. So what were they? All of these things, mich of it wasn't militaristic (in itself). But they didn't separate these into categories. They did all of these things, although we don't know how widespread these activities were in their over societal a whole.
To the ancients, were the concepts of art, religion/spiritial beliefs, and other aspects of life categories in their minds? I suspect not. When an ancient discovered a technology, was it considered an almost magical concept? Taking rocks, and creating metal objects distinct from these other parts of life (to them as we distinguish them today)? They had people with special access to understanding we seperateinŕo these areas today. But I suspect they were not. A person who could extract copper, and later bronze and iron) would probably been considered special. Perhaps wizzard like. Such a person would have guarded his knowledge and understanding as a way to secure a special place in society. Not unlike the smithy in midevil times. He would have taught these techniques to his apprentices, often his children, in a carefully guarded way. Valuable insight was not shared with everyone. And they didn't Google things. So the things like spiritual understanding, even how to effectively find resources were not as widely known. Someone who could skillfully knap flint. Was honored for his skill. One whocould navigate successfully using nature, even stargazing, was revered for this ability. So my point is we have our understanding shaped by culture and language, in ways that unavoidable skew how we understand the situation.
I really enjoy watching your videos but I have no respect for modern academics discussing shamanic, or traditional spiritual practices as there often seems to be a massive arrogance in the academics producing a nonsensical view of past motivations and beliefs as well as a tendency to arrive at conclusions that only support past theories which are presented as facts
This was purely to make poeple think, because there is so much we assuem shamans are, when really it is much more complicated than many realise.
No mention of the Khoisan of Africa. Hmm..
Hes not saying there's no African Rock Art, (of course there is it goes back 20,000 years) he's saying there's no rock art in Africa with a Shaman depicted.
Shamans do not necessarily need a drum to achieve a shamanic state, there are rattles, dances, chants .... You also have to differentiate between people who want to achieve an altered state of mind for themselves and those who do it for others again and again. Only the latter are shamans.
Any consideration for the role psychosis would have contributed to the creation of paleolithic art?
That isn't my area of expertise, and there is a growing concensus women and children drew much of the art, which may mean, because of their societal roles, they were less likely to have been. But that doesn't mean they weren't, just that we aren't really sure, its ambiguous.
@@Crecganford Thanks. I once looked up if there were any studies on whether psychopathy was a factor in the development of religious practices, and it turns out enough evidence exists to make the case for it.
A Shaman can only come from Siberia, surely, Druids only from Celtic speaking peoples, it's a language thing. The word Shaman has become a catch all word for anyone, anywhere, any when, using music and/or dance and/or mind altering substances or practices to do any number of different things.
@@SuperRobinjames this is entirely Arbitrary…you literally made this up as you typed it loo
If you are not a Tungus, you are not a shaman, better call you "magician" then to avoid misunderstandings and misinterpretations.
Ceraunous!
But, they can move, move any mountain...
Have mercy. For the apirited-away shamans.
One day you will understand you are the creation.
Well i studied anthropology so I am out of touch with what normies think shaman are, so ..
Shaman not being what you think they are to me means
what you think people think about shaman is different than what you think people think they think about shaman
Or something else with bad grammar for comedic effect
everyone was a shaman back then
"Test of balls." That's what it is.