Northeastern UM Bishops Close the Net on Local Churches
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- This is from the daily briefing I am hosting on my Locals account. If you want to join us for these times, go to plainspoken.locals.com to either follow or become a subscriber. I'm not paywalling these things.
This segment dealt with the statements issued by the Northeastern College of Bishops of the UMC, in which they are all quite explicit that there will no longer be any disaffiliations. The only way that a congregation can leave the UMC and take their building with them is if they pay the full value of the building (which the congregation initially built and have maintained). I look at two different letters and do some basic analysis of what they say.
Links:
Northeastern College of Bishops Statement - nejumc.org/pdf...
Bishop John Schol's Statement - mailchi.mp/epa...
“You can check out any time you like…but you can never leave.”
We are in the Greater NJ conference and are in the midst of a law suit with 6 other churches against the conference. There are some that are still fighting. Please pray for our congregations and the judge over seeing the case and lawyers that represent us as we continue to fight to disaffiliate.
Anyone can leave. This is about leaving with property and assets.
🙏🏽
We choose who we serve over the place we met in and we closed the doors.
This is going to devastate the congregations in West Virginia... I suspect many of the folks in many churches there will simply walk away from their congregations and buildings.
I suspect the building use policy will change very soon. If the churches belong to the conference then the conference can determine the rules.
As a former PCUSA church member, a large portion of our congregation voted to disaffiliate and simply walked away from the building and assets and rented a space to worship on Sunday, joined the EPC and ultimately obtained a building and have been engaged in Kingdom building in our area for 12 years. Just disaffiliate and start over. You would be surprised how the Holy Spirit will bring renewal to the congregation.
Dear Christian Brothers and Sisters - I grieve for you. I went through the same bloodbath with the Episcopal Church USA in the late 1980s (yup, very same issues !) They didn't give us any option to "disaffiliate" and keep our property. So, we all had to take a walk and find new "situations." It was heart-rending for me amd my family, but as a matter of conscience we walked out and never looked back. Fortunately there was an Orthodox Church nearby, and moa number of our families found refuge there. So my prayer for you is that you will be strong and find some Christian community where the traditional Faith is still believed and practiced. God's Blessings be upon you all !
Well, there are more "continuing" Anglican churches that you can shake a stick at. Some years ago, as an example, we visited an "Anglican Catholic Church" in Statesville, NC We were members of an Anglican Church for several years and we have attended services at the same "congregation" many times.
For several years we attended an "Southern Methodist Church" which had nothing to do with the Southern Methodist Church with Civil War & Segregation ties. (That church was become part of the UMC.)
We aren't members of the UMC congregation but have sung in the choir and we are listed in the church directory.
As a Black American I think your assessment of “sharecropping” is on point. I believe what should happen is those Churches that want to disaffiliate should all work collaboratively and be taken to court. This would really embarrass the UMC.
Well, in Virginia several congregations left the PECUSA (or whatever it is now) and took their building with them. After a court battle of several years, the Episcopal Church recovered the property. OTOH, my boyhood Episcopal Church in Pittsburgh,PA was able to keep its property when it parted ways. I discovered this way,way after the fact and I don't know why they left because of what I've see on the "net" it's not a particularly conservative church.
I love how they acknowledge the "deep convictions" but state how they will take appropriate actions "to ensure our policies and covenants are honored". As I predicted, when the BoD did not support LGBTQ marriage and clergy, the UMC leadership in many US areas allowed clergy to be in disobedience out of their convictions being from the heart. But as soon as it goes the other way, on LGBTQ in the BoD, upholding what it states becomes the absolute priority.
"Opened minds, Opened Hearts, Opened wallets."
emptied wallets...
When the UMC realized they were hemorrhaging congregations they decided to stop the disaffiliations. The answer is for the members to stop giving money and to find another congregation who shares the same biblical faith and practices. Closing the building is another viable option. Especially for those old country churches with a graveyard attached which will not be a hot item on the real estate market. After one year of spending money to maintain those abandoned buildings, the conference will be begging to sell them at rock bottom prices. Most of all don't fall in love with a building or a denomination fall in love with Jesus and serve Him 2 Corinthians 6:15-17.
May people be in peace
Sadly, the unbelievers won't accept any peace that's not on their terms only. And then, once they've gotten you to accede to their terms, they change the terms.
"I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further." Darth Progressive
Not the context of course, but the whole thing reminds me of the verse, "One will be taken, and one will be left behind".
Forgive me if this is lacking in Christian charity, but I have no sympathy for congregations that didn't get out when the door was open. They should have known that the unbelievers, once they got the upper hand, wouldn't show anyone who disagrees with them any charity. And the unbelievers aren't concerned with what you think, they're only concerned that you obey, pay up, and shut up.
Kinda like the mafia when you think about it.
Sobering up is hard. Folks like you and I had clarity about the nature of the forces animating these folks. For many, however, they presumed that those who claimed to be of Jesus would not operate in such a way. If people hadn't paid attention to the decades of manipulation and dysfunction, they couldn't really reckon with how different things were in reality from what they had understood to be the case. And when the pastor in charge told them there wasn't really anything to worry about, it was just really difficult for some to get the resolve to push anyway. The folks I'm worried about are the ones who got out but who didn't learn their lesson...
@@plainspokenpodAnd if they needed an example, they only needed to look at Episcopal Church back in the aughts and the ugly litigation over property with parishes that wanted to leave, even if those parishes had their bishops' imprimatur.
This is coming from a former Episcopalian, who had seen this play many years ago and so knew how it ended.
The door was not "open". It was going to be financially impossible for us to leave. We voted to leave before 2553 window closed. Our church is in the midst of a lawsuit to leave our conference. I hope you will soften your heart. Please pray for us, our lawyers and the judge.
@@keepclimbing2015 Consider it done. 🙏✝️
@@rpierce0419thank you!
38 church litigation against bwc is alive and moving forward
A former UMC pastor of mine said repeatedly that the UMC and Methodism as a whole is far more Catholic than many members realize, or want to admit.
Just as a conference owns the physical plant of a congregation, a Catholic diocese or archdiocese owns a parish's church, school, and rectory.
This goes back to John Wesley, fearing that a congregation might allow use of its property for un-Godly purposes, in order to pay for upkeep.
My church is leasing half of the building to a Montessouri school, which the DS and the Bishop had to approve. We had an option for the school to buy the half of the building. The Bishop nixed that, on the premise that if the congregation were to grow, we would be very cramped.
As someone who lives in the area, this doesn't surprise me at all.
I wonder if the roles were reversed and the progressive churches were the ones wanting to disaffiliate, how they would react to this treatment? If you can change the book of discipline to suit their desires but can’t be more gracious to the churches who want to leave, what does that say about them as Christians as well as church leaders? My prayers are with those who remain that are struggling with the changes.
We'll take you to court. With peace and blessings in the name of Jesus Christ, of course.....
Good luck. It depends upon what state you live in and how your property is titled. In Virginia, you likely will not succeed in the long run.
Jeff, in the paragraphs above there is universal use of he word “may.” Never does it say the word “will” not be forced etc, etc. Big difference when one looks a little deep.
Wow 23 mins ago? Dear Jesus help us deal with all these changes
Who didn't see this coming. It's hard to feel sorry for any that didn't take the opportunity, but that's just me. They've been lied to for years, and take their word now? They'll have to lie in the bed they've made so to speak.
It's not that simple. My church voted to leave however we would have been forced to pay minimum 7 figures to leave the UMC, because the conference needs the money. And if we abandoned our building and just leave, the UMC gets it anyway and can sell it. I personally don't want to give them the satisfaction of forcing us out. We are actually a growing church with young families and a pastor firmly standing on the Bible. We no longer send apportionments to our annual conference and are suing to leave peacefully with 6 other churches. Please pray for us.
@@keepclimbing2015prayers for your church and the other churches🙏🙏
@@mikehunter6975thank you brother!
@keepclimbing2015 Good luck, I hope you get out. They will close you down for non-payment I'd bet, if you don't get out.
The sinking ship can't afford to lose more apportionments....a total cult group....God bless
I would like to see USA map again
The Great Shepherd is coming, and these wicked wolves are going to wish they were never born.
You mean Paragraph 2549, not 2548.
Is bigley really a word though?
it’s a perfectly cromulent word!
But is God with the UMC?
Pity the perfidious episcopacy
Nice haircut
Ok I in Texas
Theological diversity?
That is the new term for "hersey and moral wickedness" !
You said bigly. Lol
Big of them ain't it.