"McGill Big 3" Keeping Your Herniated Disc From Healing?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.พ. 2022
- Do you suffer with lower back pain (maybe from a herniated disc) and have been trying to strengthen your core, but it doesn't seem to be working? Maybe someone recommended you follow Dr. Stuart McGill's "Big 3" & core stability training program... but you're stuck and not seeing the relief you want.
The inspiration for this video came from a message from one of my viewers. I decided to share my reply & thoughts here (for all of you to benefit from) on the McGill Big 3, my specific suggestions, and why I feel this viewer is stuck. And in fact... it's probably why a lot of people suffering with lower back, disc & piriformis problems are not seeing improvements with this approach.
So, if you’ve been strengthening your core, and feel like you’re not getting better- you’ll want to watch this video and open your mind to taking a different approach...
#drcharliejohnsonpt #corestability #McGillBig3 #herniateddisc #corestrengthening
--
FREE DOWNLOAD 👉 "Better Than An MRI DIY Diagnostic Guide" - www.drcharliejohnsonpt.com/di...
FREE FACEBOOK GROUP 👉 The DIY Diagnostic Network - urlgeni.us/facebook/YUTB
FREE WORKSHOP 👉 Beat Butt Pain: The 4 Simple Secrets That Skyrocket Your Chances For Relief And Unlock Natural Healing Without Pills, Shots, Surgery, Or Needing Others To “Fix You” - www.drcharliejohnsonpt.com/fre...
APPLY TO WORK WITH ME ☎️ www.drcharliejohnsonpt.com/apply
Say Hello:
EMAIL 👉charliejohnsondpt@gmail.com
FACEBOOK 👉 / physical-therapy-johns...
INSTAGRAM 👉 / drcharliejohnsonpt
*Does your pain have you feeling trapped, alone, hopeless and on an emotional rollercoaster? It's not your fault and it's totally normal. In fact, many people I work with feel this way. You can visit www.curable.com/charliejohnsondpt to start a free 6 week trial of the CURABLE App. And yes, this is an affiliate link... but it's one I truly believe in and stand behind and have seen it help so many first hand.
*Affiliate Disclaimer:
Note affiliate links allow you to find the items mentioned in this video or other helpful resources and support the channel at no cost to you. While this channel may earn minimal sums when the viewer uses the links, the viewer is in no way obligated to use these links. Thank you for your support!
-
• "McGill Big 3" Keeping...
Thanks for watching! Want to pinpoint the source of your back, butt, or sciatica pain using simple self movement tests & a step-by-step approach without needing expensive images or a specialist?
🔥Grab my FREE “Better Than an MRI DIY Diagnostic Guide” here 👉 www.drcharliejohnsonpt.com/diyguide
McGill’s track record is unparalleled and based on real science. I trust his approach.
Awesome Phil! So I’m guessing you’re following his approach?
The big three helped my back pain that had been on going for almost 10 years. Also helps me to understand that neutral curve of the spine is where it needs to be to keep the disks from getting pushed into the spinal column and causing pain.
How much of ur pain is reduced
For me, McGills key advice in his talks is - if something hurts, dont do it. The big 3 are low impact that most people can do without making things worse. Also he is a big believer in walking to open things up. Really helped me, but took over a year to being fit again. And I have gone backwards at times, usually from lifting too much and / or leaning over
Yup! I do appreciate that they are low impact for sure. Walking also useful for many people! Glad you are doing well!
i must lean over a lot in my job what other move can i do to not lean over ?
I herniated my disc in 2014 and I was in pain for years. I continued to work out and I never let that injury stop me from doing physical activities. However, due to that I had so many setbacks and I reinjured my back several times(a year). I tried so many things like stretching, yoga, lower back exercises, etc. Nothing really helped. 6+ years later, I still had back pain but I started to do the McGill Big 3 after reading his book. Not only that, I also incorporated spine hygiene and nerve flossing (because McGills science based approach is so much more than just three exercises). After only a few weeks I was completely pain free for the first time after the injury. I am now almost 2 years pain free and I haven't reinjured my back since I started with the Big 3 even though I squat and deadlift more weight than I have ever before. I do flips and went bungee jumping recently - something I could have never imagined doing back in the days when I used to have back pain on a daily basis. So I don't understand the critique in your video at all, especially because McGill doesn't claim that these three exercises are the one fits all solution for everyone or that you only have to do the Big 3 and nothing else to get rid of back pain.
Hey Jayceon! Of course you don’t understand my critique- seem alike McGill approach helped you. Awesome! I’m sure it helps many… but the narrative he supports of spinal instability leading to pain and having folks work their core (using predominantly the big 3) is outdated and doesn’t work for many- infact I’ve seen it lead to pain catastrophizing and over emphasis on the biomechanical contributions to back pain. Doesn’t mean it won’t help some (everyone’s different) or that im against his entire approach. I actually agree with much of what he puts out there.
Problem for you is that you’ll never be able to know what truly helped… was it the avoidance (spine hygiene or stopping of other exercises), the nerve flossing, or one or all of the 3 exercises?
Either way- glad it helped you. 👍
@@drcharliejohnson Dr. Stuart McGill clearly says that a thorough assessment is needed to find someone’s individual cause of back pain. He doesn’t just tell everyone to do the Big 3. This is exactly what he criticizes.
In his opinion it is impossible to find the cause of back pain within just 10 to 15 minutes that doctors have for their back pain patients. So he is clearly against prescribing a few exercises to patients after such a short period of time and without knowing the cause of their back pain.
“Everyone is different”. Right. McGill doesn’t claim otherwise. He always points out that the things that helped one person might be counterproductive to the other.
How is that a “problem” for me? I am pain free, so I actually lost a problem. Core stability tremendously improved my athleticism, too. Theoretically I could find out what benefits me the most if I break it down to one method at a time and stop doing all the other methods. But what is the point? What helps me might be counterproductive for others. We are not trying to find a one fits all solution/exercise, right? My point was, that McGills approach is much more than just three exercises.
“What he puts out there” (300+ peer reviewed articles for example) helped some athletes to break world records again after a severe back injury. Pretty good for an allegedly “outdated” approach.
@@jayceontaylor9209 I can tell you're passionate about what has helped you. That's great- don't lose it. But honestly, I'm not arguing. I never said he tells everyone to blindly do the big 3. But there is no question that the Big 3 is in fact a hallmark of the approach (core stabilization)- it's not all of his approach. That's great he puts out research- he's a true professor. At the end of the day, unfortunately- the core stability approach has been shown to be no more effective than other approaches (and therefore it is somewhat outdated).
This video simply explains a case where the McGill Big 3 (prescribed by a Mcgill Master) was ineffective and why I feel it was so. That's all. Thanks for watching.
@@7THxSIGN Hey, that’s great to hear that you’re making your way out of that dark hole. Trust me, I know exactly how much back pain affects your mental health. Keep up the progress and stay motivated. I think it took me a year to get my back completely out of my mind.
After 6 months I was still a bit worried when I had to pick up something heavy off the ground or if I had to sit for a long period of time. I also had a few days of mild back pain in between but only for a day or two - nothing compared to the huge setbacks in the past where I experienced horrible back pain for weeks or even months. I used to do a lot more nerve flossing in the beginning, too, since I experienced that sharp nerve pain down my leg. Now, almost two years later, it seems like my back can handle anything and I never had that nerve pain again. I think dedication is key and it’s definitely worth it.
@@jayceontaylor9209 thank you so much. Your story is truly inspirational! I will continue with Dr. Stuart McGill’s approach. Thank you for sharing your story of success. I hope to one day share the same!
This a great, although long winded, explanation of a negative feedback loop.
He’s not saying the McGill big 3 are bad. He’s saying anything can be bad if, in reality, it reinforces fear and avoidance for you personally.
McGill’s book is very empowering as he teaches you not to avoid painful tasks but gives you tips on how to live pain free
Yup! Good tips for sure!
Check out Healing Back Pain: The Mind-Body Connection by
Dr. John E. Sarno.
The back mechanic is an amazing book. It has really helped me narrow down the causal mechanisms of my specific pain, remediate my pain entirely, and improve my life several fold.
In my case, I was "stiff", but the mckinzie-based spinal movements which helped reduced the sizes of my L3-L4, and L4-L5 disc bulges > 70% size , alongside the big 3 and several other interventions to address my core instability/glute amnesia.
The big 3 was a small piece in my treatment plan amongst the totality of evidence based interventions that remedied my pain, and reduced my disc bulge size, halted degeneration/protrusions.
Are you pain free? Can you weight train?
9:09 - McGill big 3 (excersices for Intervertebral disc muscles) + Bridging and clamshell (excersices for hip joint muscles) + substituting postures and movements that cause pain for ones that do not cause as much.
THEN, return to postures and movements that you previously couldn't do with confidence.
McGill's theory and your concern are not mutually exclusive.
Sounds a whole lot like what Dr John Sarno spoke of decades back. That most chronic pain is due to that negative feedback loop and negative emotion. It's taken me about a decade to figure that out with my lower back pain. While everyday isn't great, I can do a lot of exercise, mtn biking, motorcycles etc and be relatively pain free by soothing my brain and telling myself I'm safe.
Amazing! Thanks for sharing - yep, good stuff.
There is definitely a relationship to thoughts and emotions.I noticed that when I calmed myself with soothing thoughts and relaxed slowed breathing and calmed emotion that I was able to significantly alter the pain level from an over the top10 to a 0 or 1.I was so astonished how radical an effect this meditative,anxiety free trance had on pain levels.I had absolutely no idea how we are wired like this and how much power there is in a single thought and it's effect on pain levels physically
Yup. Reading his book now are the McGill Method failed me.
In his book, McGill emphasizes the uniqueness of each instance of back pain and underscores the idea that your pain serves as a guide to identify and address the underlying issue. He outlines several solutions tailored to different cases: a) Big3 for core stability, b) cat-camel for flexibility, c) hip restoration coupled with walking to alleviate tension from other muscles, and d) cobra stretches to correct disc form. The recommendation is to concentrate on the approach that best aligns with your specific case.
You are so right. I have been in this cycle for 3/4 years. Have accepted now that I’m “disabled “ Only way to be pain free is lying down. Tried yoga. Walking. Pilates. All aggravated pain. Putting me back for weeks.
Hey Jackie! So sorry you’re dealing with this 😕. Chances are good you can break free of the cycle- but it will take work and perseverance. You can do this.
Would you be interested in help?
Great insights. I have never thought about it before. Thanks very much.
Mcgill big 3 is only a small part to live pain-free.. you have to move and practice spine hygiene during the day all the time... If core stability hurt you..just stop... Try some walking and using bench decompresion + nerve floosing or just lying on the floor for period of time and then see how you feel... Then try suitcase carry or farmer walks... Everybody is different..you just need to find what is working for you!!! Mcgill big 3 is the most safe and effective excersise for most of the people with back-disc problem!!
I never said that the McGill Big 3 is all there is or all that is needed to live a pain-free life. Correct, one must be systematic and scientific in testing to find what works for them. But McGill big 3 is not the most safe and effective exercise for people with back/disc problems- not sure where this comes from? The most safe and effective exercise in the early phases of a disc issue is whatever feels good + safe, reduces fear, and keeps you active.
Wow great video. You blamed one thing for someone’s issues. You must be a world renowned expert in your field. Keep up the great work.
Absolutely brilliant.Thank you. 🌈
Thanks doc for your good work yes It makes a lot of sense 👍 you gotta think positively about & keep plugging away or you will just lose your self
Right on point, as always
Thanks, man!
@@drcharliejohnson no no no, thank you
👊🏼
Very good points, based on my own experiences of disc injury and recoveries I have to agree with all of this.
Thanks for watching!
Can you please explain. I am having difficulty rehabbing my disc bulge at L5
@@7THxSIGN hi there, I cannot remember the original content I was referring to, I think it was the entirety of this good video referring to the conventional simplistic approaches. Well my experience of the last year Recovering very well from my worst disc injury has been to do a combination of finding a very good physio/massage Therapist once or twice weekly esp in cold weather, and a battery operated heat belt from Amazon, and in combination with daily walking outdoors, almost every day for a mile or so plus in minimal footwear. Ie nothing with large heels raised. Also, I have been doing a lot of functional strength training and mobility training using clubbells. Also, I have been hyper aware of the necessity of cutting down on as much stress as I can. Stress is a spine killer. All that stress comes straight off the brain and down the spinal cord, then off into the nerves of all the muscles around the spine! A primal protection defence mechanism. Tightness there puts more stress on the discs. Also check out the book Fixing You Back Pain by Rick Olderman. The first few chapters explains this really well. Finally, eating and sleeping well is crucial and trying to stay positive as possible. Gratitude diary really helps me in my lowest points. Is also super important to work on your hip, mobility and strength and glutes strength as they protect and our foundation of the core and lower back . Oh yeah, and fitting as little as possible, or at least for not long periods of time, and standing more for example at my raised desk , or in my kitchen when I’m eating. Staying mobile is so important for the healing and the maintenance. Also, Breathwork has been important for my body awareness and sensing how my breath is connected to stress and then directly to tension in my spine and the resulting pain and or Susceptibility to re-injury. Good luck!
super super helpful - going through it right now. Crazy helpful!!
you're welcome! Let me know if ya get stuck or need some more help.
Dude I’ve never heard anything like this. You’re very intelligent and holistic and I think your approach is quite ahead of its time
Thanks nick! 👍
Check out Healing Back Pain: The Mind-Body Connection...
by Dr. John E. Sarno
Excellent video.
Thanks Mary! Appreciate the feedback
Haven't watched this video but if it's saying that the McGill Big 3 doesn't work, I say you're wrong; it worked for me amazingly and continues to;
Awesome- good for you barry and thanks for checking out my channel.
You should probably watch the video. To be clear- I never say McGill big 3 doesn’t work. I do say that McGill big 3 can keep some folks from healing- for the reasons provided in the video.
Anything has the ability to help anyone… if it’s working for you- keep going!
👊🏼
Hi Dr Charlie, yes you're right, please accept my apology, I certainly should have watched the complete video before commenting as I did; I do seem to fall into the trap of assuming that something which worked for me must surely work for another; thanks for highlighting that for me; best wishes and keep up the good work;
Was your lower back pain due to a disc bulge or herniation?
@@barryevans6757 I didn’t think so.
This goes along with " The myth of core stability" by Eyal Lederman. My back (herniated disc L4,5 S1) improved tremendously after dropping core stability exercises(big 3 ). I just started relaxing and letting my back go through its natural range of motions and it made the biggest difference.
Yeah man! Key is to not get locked into a specific approach and be willing to explore and find what works for you! Thanks for watching.
Almost all disc pain resolves by itself without treatment but will recur if you dont build correct postures and strength endurance in the core musculature.Thw big 3 at the correct level taught to you properly and progressed appropriately have very little joints t forces.You just spontaneously resolved without treatment,it had nothing to do with those exercises
You can have core stability and mobility at the same time. An instability doesnt equal mobility, an instability means your back isnt held in place by the soft tissues for some reason, such as poor musclr tone and poor posture, things which honestly go hand in hand. If when you take your “relax” approach and your body goes naturally into poor posture, then thats an issue. If you “relax” while sitting and your neck hunches and your back rounds thats an issue
Only thing I have against McGill’s teachings, and I have read both of us famous books and have a plied them for two years daily is that he seems to suggest that spines are fragile, which is something I have difficulty comprehending after millions of years of human evolution! Back pain can be horrible because the brain is wired to cause excruciating pain from spinal injuries so a person will not overuse them until healing. I personally had to get over the concept of having a fragile spine so I also do flexibility exercises with stability movements I think both are possible, but Stewart has even said that yogis can’t lift weights in my experience. That is not true. I realize it’s very complicated and working on a cadaver spine is nothing like a real living spine.
I bought McGills book and did the first test the sitting test. I have symptoms with neck extension which McGill says is “underhooked nerve. He gives no rehab recommendation for this. Thoughts?? Or suggestions??
So the McGill big 3 are only a tiny portion of the McGill method. Its all about learning the proper mechanics in everyday activities and avoiding painful movements.
Correct Marc 👍
I am sorry but I think your understanding of McGill´s approach is very limited (see: you did not read his work). He never suggested that the big 3 are the only movement you are supposed to do for the rest of your life, he just believes that getting rid of pain and recovering mobility and full functionality are two separated processes. When you have a relapse, your nerves completely shut down and refuse movement. Your body is forcing you to rest. I have been cycling 8000km a year, while bouldering twice a week before getting a relapse on my L5S1 disc protusion. I spent 3 weeks in bed and the McGill big 3 were a great help, because I could not do anything else than keeping my back in a neutral position. Those exercises are developed exactly with that idea in mind: train and get stronger, but without forcing you to move into pain. My body needed to avoid movement, and forced me to do so. After 2 months I feel much better, I still have light pain, but I can go out on walks, and do a more complex set of exercises. McGill has a full book on how to fully recover your back, dedicated to athletes and sport people.
In other words: please get informed before misinforming people, or stop bashing the little evidence-based information we have available on the back pain topic just to earn some clicks.
Also, you did not mention that McGills big 3 come with the cat and cow, which, also in an early stage, is meant to mobilize your back.
Daniele-thanks for your feedback.
I've studied under a McGill master (his "students")- I'm very familiar with his approach and have studied it in depth. I never said it's all he has to offer.
The cat cow exercise is not part of the big 3 (if it were, it would be called the big 4)- but it is something he recommends for gentle spinal "mobility"
Your nerves do not shut down when you hurt your back- if they did- you would be paralyzed.
Mcgill big 3 will help some people- but there's nothing special about it... just ways to work your body in a way that feels comfy for some people... that's it. And too much focus over time on "stabilizing" the system leads to fear of movement...
You mentioned you feel much better after 2 months- that's awesome- so whatever you're doing- keep doing it!
But do recognize that the reason you're getting better could have NOTHING to do with mcgill big 3 or anything else you're working on. Instead, it could simply be time... (people tend to forget this and are quick to give credit to a certain person or approach... but all things heal with time- back issues included)
There's nothing evidence based about Mcgill... it's pretty basic actually and logical... when you hurt- find ways to get comfortable by temporarily modifying how you move... stay as active as possible while you're injured (Mcgill shows you how to work your body in a way that feels safe--- but honestly any exercise that feels safe could work)... and slowly build up your tolerance to life (walking, moving etc.) That's it.
MANY studies show NO support or evidence for "motor control or core stability" training being something that is better than just general good ol common sense and movement for folks with back pain.
@@drcharliejohnson thanks for your answer. I understand your doubts but I still do not see the point of this video. McGill´s method is not aimed at stiffness, as you claim. He wants you to improve your endurance, he repeats that over and over.. In his "Ultimate Back Fitness" he actually puts an emphasis on a more complex set of excercises, which even include specific stretchings.
What I can tell without the need of scientific proof, just by being a back injured person, is that a body can react very quickly to force you to stop moving. The nervous system might not shut down entirely, but your patterns are kind of reset, your body would just not comply with the movements you would like to perform. From one day to another I was barely able to walk to the toilet, and this without experiencing an actual accident. My body just decided it was time to stop moving, my back muscles tensioned and did not allow any movement in my lower back.
Is forcing movement in that section necessary to recover mobility? I do not think so. You start mobilizing your back when you can move outside of your pain, before that McGills big 3, together with cat & cow, are just valid exercises which *at least* contribute to compensate for the strength you loose with the time you spend in bed, in a critical section of your body. McGill also demands a strict walking routine, another thing you did not mention.
@@danieletognozzi7641 I have done a McGill assessments and it has helped me but I am also familiar with the cycle described in the video. I think McGill is brilliant and I am a believer in it but this video made tons of sense to me
@@Dan-yq3kc Yes but I am not saying that the cycle described in the video is crap. What I am saying is that the way the McGill method is criticized in this video makes no sense.
I have chronically overstretched ligaments in my lower back and around the hip due to years of bad posture. Exercised almost daily for the past 3 years to fix that but with no success. Initially it was getting better and then just got really bad. Now I have annual tear on l4l5 can't hip hinge due to pain in my lower back and osteoarthritis below my kneecap. Also have sciatica symptoms and si dysfunction. What could be the solution for that I wonder.
Hey Petra! Sorry to hear. Need to follow a process. ID things mentally and physically that are picking scab and keeping you from healing- tweak these things temporarily. Next, learn to self assess so you can measure how you're moving. Next, use movement as medicine (not 100 things at once... but testing things scientifically to see what improves how you move... once found- multiply that). Finally, ease back into life via a graded exposure approach!
No pressure, but are you open to some help?
Long time powerlifter who has recently dropped compound movements due to a "degenerative" L5. I've been religious with the big 3 but waking up stiff and guarded every day. If not the McGill big 3, what would be some more suggestions as to rehabilitation movements?
Hey Janoy! Thanks for watching and for sharing. So, if waking up more stiff and guarded- solution is likely NOT to make you more guarded (braced) via McGill big 3. If stability = increase stiffness... then mobility may = decrease stiffness. Either you need opposite approach (mobility- not sure exactly where though without evaluating)... or a more specific approach... meaning most people with these issues respond best to LESS... and by following a process- usually ONE to maybe TWO motions will aide in resolving the pain. Goal would be to find one motion that feels safe and improves movement quality.
Also, rather than focusing on DOING... as Mcgill suggests- perhaps focus should be more on reducing your pain triggers. If you wake up stiff and guarded everyday- time to do some deep detective work regarding your sleep habits/routines etc.
Does this help?
@@drcharliejohnson makes perfect sense. I've been constantly trying to assess which movements I do the day before correlate with more or less pain the subsequent days.
I suspect a consistent trigger could be stomach sleeping (as I've been a stomach sleeper my whole life). Do you generally recommend people against stomach sleeping? Not sure if it's a hard and fast rule
@@shmoo1000 not against stomach sleeping- but for sure something to consider... some people love it... others cant tolerate. So all individual recommendation there. Let me know what you learn.
If you need help doing more detective work and ya get stuck- I'd love the chance to help you out. No pressure- but I consult with folks worldwide. Hang in there
Best move menus for 4 bulging disks lumbar one touching nerve root with slight forminal narrowing
If I break a leg or sprain an ankle , should l go for a run to encourage them to heal? Or perhaps immobilise them until they can start the healing process?
Send them to the gym and have them work the good- uninjured leg ASAP. Then, let the body and brain take care of natural healing.
It’s sad you would try to simplify stuart McGill whole therapeutic philosophy into just the big three, strawmaning his arguments should be beneath a qualified specialist like yourself
He was only using Dr. McGill’s method to cover a specific issue in chronic pain. He called it being protective but my Dr of physical therapy calls it hyper vigilance. It’s more about perception. After 20 yrs of pain and mult surgeries I tried many things incl McGill method (thru PT) and made it worse. My PT had me do similar as in this video and after many mths just where I can try SMM again. To cover it in depth and hyper vigilance in one video would take a lot longer. Dr McGill’s a prof’l and gets all this.
Mcgill big 3 are supposed to be done after having build pain free capacity, meaning, you discover and removes the pain triggers. That's states in the book back mechanics.
But it's possible that someone starts with this excercises without first desensitized from pain, which is a mistake.
@@jmc8076tell me you didn’t read the book without telling me.
Hey Jerry- thanks for watching. No where in this video did I say that McGills approach is only the Big 3 or that these exercises made up his whole therapuetic approach. I studied alongside a McGill master (know his approach well)- and there is much more to the McGill method than the Big 3. I was discussing what this specific person in pain was doing and why it did not work for them.
For instance my wife wearing high heels to long, she hasnt worn them in for ever. The simple solution would be wear them for x period, rest and then put them back on and go again, vs wearing too long right away. And or working out doing just enough where you are in a pain free state and good zone, but not pushing it to far and then the next time doing slightly more for adapation correct?
Hey Conrad! Thanks for watching man... so, if trying to adapt/get used to wearing high heels again... for sure- that's one way. Graded exposure to that which is threatening/problematic. Slow and steady.
I've been having this sciatica pain for almost 3 weeks 😔
Seen 2 doctors already both didn't help I'm 28 and I feel so stupid for having this I dont know what to do I don't know if I'm getting better or if I'll get better at this point
Hang in there- responded to your other comment
I'm in this cycle now. Herniated disc twice in 10 months. First time, I bent over to paint a bench. Was in bed for a week straight. Second was last October, swinging a golf club three times. Same exact pain, in bed for a week again. Had a shift in my right leg like something was out of place and then a couple shifts in my spine. Pain let up almost immediately but now I'm so stiff and tight. Scared to death of it happening a third time.
Hey Curtis! Sorry to hear man. Are you looking for help?
@@drcharliejohnson always. About to start your webinar now!
Shift in the right leg like somethingout of place?
Can you tell more about that is it near the hip leg joint or lateral glute?
@@MI-mx3rh felt like it was right in the joint of the hip. Wasn't like a pop, more of a slide/shift. The next day something did the same thing in my lower spine area.
@@cmusic175 i feel a similar wire sort of thing glide back and forth over that joint
Did you find out what it was wit an MRI or something?
When can you know it is the right time to try and start moving again?
The McGill 3 absolutely helped me. I've had back pain for literally decades. His concepts and teachings have significantly worked for me. I'm sorry sir, but I don't think you know what you're talking about.
Hey! I never said his teachings are unhelpful to some people (like yourself). But some folks who follow his teaching will become much worse. And so this video is for people who are trying the Big 3 and are NOT getting results (or becoming worse as a result).
Do your stairs in the background lead up to the ceiling?? Where do those stairs go??
Problem is that you keep going to these doctors, physios, chiropractors and they keep telling you need to strengthen your core and I keep showing them my shredded 6 pack and then they say, yeah but there are those tinny tinny core muscles deep inside responsible for stabilization, they must be weak! And that gets into your head after you hear it so many times. Have I been living in a lie for the last 5 years? Avoiding certain exercises or even worse doing them but being super stiff while doing them out of fear, hence not seeing the results further confirming the bias that those exercises are not efficient for me.
Yes! Your experience is very common. No link has been established between a weak core and back pain... or that improvements in core strength are needed for relief.
No pressure, but would you be open to me reviewing your case to see if/how I can help?
If so- visit www.drcharliejohnsonpt.com/apply - select a time to chat, then follow instructions to submit a formal case review.
Thanks for watching!
Dr. Charlie
My lower back hurts when straighten after sitting or stooping over. I went for a 40 min power walk last night with no pain. I can get into the car no pain how’re it’s challenging to straighten up after getting out. If I sit up straight and pull up on my hamstrings it hurts the lower back. Any ideas will be helpful
Exactly my case. Last year I lost 17KGs of weight, and all my stiffness was nearly gone. Now I had a hip FAI surgery and back has given up. Its more stiffness than pain, although I clinically had L4/L5/S1 minor bulge before I had pain. Pain is simply isolated at a single point in spine, That hurts only when I do specific movement, Bending down or stooping over after sitting brings a shooting spasm in right QL muscle. I cant say its the nerve, coz it never radiates to lower body. It shoots upwards and calms down, as soon as I lay down or stay straight for 10-15 seconds.
Dr Charlie, what are your thoughts on the Egoscue Method?
Good question P C... a good topic for a video- stay tuned. Short answer- Not much... just another "method"... and based too much off biomechanical and postural theories.
When you say 75% healed in 6 mos, does that mean NO lingering symptoms at all? Or just back to everyday activities and may have some lingering sxs?
Hey! Thanks for watching… sorry been a while since I’ve posted this… can you give me some context and rephrase question? Thanks!
@@drcharliejohnson you noted that, 6 months after disc herniation, 75% of ppl are healed. Does that stat usually mean they are completely back to normal, or just that they are mostly pain free and still have some lingering sxs etc?
The stat (he lazily quoted) is regarding a study where the disc itself reabsorbs into the spinal column between the vertebrate for people who do conservative treatment (or none) after 9 months.
Wish people like him were explicit as they just add more confusion
I’m a 64 year old, I’ve been in fitness industry for 17 years, teach Yoga, Pilates and Spinning… I have had chronic back pain for 5 years..have tried everything and I mean everything spent $$$$ thousands, it has improved but I get days where I want to rip my hair out.. I have been diagnosed with spondylolisthesis and bulging discs and that I am flexion and extension intolerant…. Lately I have seen a McGill expert and working with Big 3 and desensitizing my back.. I walk at lot when I’m not in pain and shorten up walks when I’m in pain… Esther Gokhale techniques have helped… I’m reluctant to teach and ski and bike as I have been told it probably has aided in this back pain… I like sports and to be active. ..what you say makes sense…
Hey Marisa! Thanks for watching and sorry to hear, unfortunately- your story is not uncommon.
Are you open to a different angle of approach? No pressure, but would love to see if I can help you out. NO pressure- let me know!
I have gluteal hip and leg pain till my foot, it was first in mg right ,agter 2 months it started in my left .since then its a constant pain which shifts sides..tried physiotherapy from 2 yrs ,the pain has not reduced. Started mcanzie excercise from 2 weeks. No improvement. Cant stand nor walk nor sit for more than 10 minutes
So what is your suggestion to help someone caught in this loop?
I’m looking into the neuroscience route as well as the McGill approach.
Hey Sean! thanks for watching man! So, I don't subscribe to one "approach" - having studied under most of the "gurus"- (McGill Masters, Mckenzie Diplomats, etc) each one of these folks (I feel) leaves something out... because they're too dogmatic. The approach you take needs a bit more flexibility...
I've essentially am a mutt... and have synthesized many forms of rehab into a program I created...
It involves teaching people a process for pain relief.
Step 1- optimize brain and body so that it's in the best state for healing
Step 2- learn to self assess- "you can't manage what you don't measure!"
Step 3- Learn to self treat- learn decision making framework that allows you to know immediately what you should/should not be doing exercise wise.
Step 4- getting back to life...
Lots of nuances in here- happy to share more if you're looking for specialized help vs. DIY. Good question!
Thanks for watching.
Charlie
@@drcharliejohnson hi Charlie, thanks for your response. I’ve been suffering for a couple of years now but in the last year my back issues have definitely deteriorated. I stopped doing a lot of activities that I used to do due to fear of pain and injury.
Do you have an email address where I can converse with you?
Cheers
Sean in the UK 🇬🇧
@@Slaneous hey! Yes, for sure, would love to chat and see if/how I can help. You can either shoot me an email at charliejohnsondpt@gmail.com and/or if you’re ready to solve this and want to see if/how I can help and if it makes sense to work together- just go ahead and book a call on my calendar.
You can set up a formal time to chat with me by visiting: www.drcharliejohnsonpt.com/apply
Sound good?
Hang in there Sean!
So what do you suggest for a L5-S1 protrusion?
good question- multifaceted answer... optimize healing environment (calm things down)... then find motions that reduce pain and multiply them. Many motion options that would require testing to determine best approach... but thats the gist!
Hi Doc, hope you could help me, im suffering with pain on my left butt everytime i sit infront of computer,driving & standing for long period of time. My xrat says no problem with my spine and lower back.what should i do, i did a lot of stretching and nothing is working, my doctor just gave me pain reliver but after 3-4 hours the pain remains
Hey John! Thanks for watching. Honestly hard to say without diving deeper and without evaluating. Stretching will not be solution in my experience. Need to do some detective work- 1st on how youre living your life and the habits/routines you have. 2nd on the movements your body likes and doesn’t like. This would give us the best idea of where to go treatment wise… Make sense?
@@drcharliejohnson im actually a real estate photographer and 3-4 hours sitting infront of the computer, thats the time i feel pain and also when im driving, i can feel the pain on my left upper butt, but when i try to touch it i cant find where exactly the pain.
@@drcharliejohnson im comfortable lying down and siiting in a sofa, but office chair and car give me so much pain, when i do, if i bend over its like something streching some muscle on my left upper butt and it so painfull
@@johnrivera6566 Hey!- thanks for insight. sitting/driving for sure biggest aggravating factor- need to do some detective work around how we can change this.
Are you open to working with me directly so that we see if/how you can solve this?
Let me know.
@@drcharliejohnson yes pls
Maybe it's me and my limited understanding of English since it's not my 1st language but saying/equating stiffness is caused by core strengthening exercise is a very wrong statement. Do you mind elaborating on it and provide scientific evidence or any reference. PS I do understand the mid-over-body approach that you're emphasizing.
In my own experience, learning to breathe properly is the best place to start and sometimes being in a horrible posture makes that even more difficult. It takes time. I don't disagree with the fear cycle this Doc is mentioning, BUT he's absolutely WRONG about the Big 3 and it's partly from what you stated. The Big 3 DONE RIGHT = LESS STIFFNESS but properly braced. It's not about CLENCHING and OVER-DOING it, but performing the exercises with a STABILITY that brings calmness to your body. It can be a VERY MINIMAL FLEX. Once you're aligned with relaxed-breathing, the BRACING during the Big 3 doesn't feel like "My god I can't breathe cause I'm BRACING SO HARD and it's AMPLIFYING my MENTAL ANGUISH and STIFFNESS." It feels more like "I don't feel twisted anymore and the muscles that are stabilizing my spine are WORKING RIGHT and now my mind is CALM." I think it's a bit crazy that this guy somewhat degrades those 3 exercises that even at their most difficult are low impact and at their most simplified 99.9% of people can do.
Hey John- folks with back pain have MORE co-contraction of their “core” muscles than folks who don’t have back pain. Probably because they are in pain and guarded… Why would we teach people who are in pain and already firing their core muscles more than baseline- to voluntarily contract their muscles further via exercise? Just my two cents. There has been NO EVIDENCE which suggests that core weakness prevents back pain or that core stability training is superior to any other form of treatment. So, feeding folks the narrative of old outdated biomechanical explanations for back pain (when most back pain is non-specific- meaning we don’t know the cause)… this just seems silly. Make sense?
Hey Mark! thanks for watching. The Big 3 might work for some people… but no better than any other form of exercise. There is NO evidence which suggests McGills approach of using the Big 3 is more superior than other forms of exercise. My point was primarily about the outdated biomechanical “core stability” narrative adopted by folks who follow his teachings. THIS is what keeps people in pain and fearful of movement- in my opinion of course! Thanks for watching man
that being said- if it worked for you, awesome! keep at it.
@@drcharliejohnson He has data contrary to what you just stated. The point is you can't just start exercising without knowing what your pain triggers are such as... BRACING TOO HARD which can cause you pain through motion or having slight extension or flexion. Actually having an assessment done will expedite the process of BEGINING TO MOVE and MOST LIKELY using the BIG 3 in the process. Youtubing is fine but don't be surprised when you run into issues. That "stiffness" you mention in your video can be circumvented if you have an assessment because they'll tune you themselves so you don't amplify the 'tightness issues' you're already having. Your statement holds LITTLE validity considering you say there is no evidence for his approach when it is QUITE CLEAR there is. Assumingly, you haven't taken anytime to check. My back was on a decline for around 7 years before I basically stopped doing most exercises. 10 to 11 years in, I stopped going to the gym. Without performance enhancers, I had a 600lbs deadlift, 470ish lbs squat, and 315lbs bench. Of the 10 to 11 years, I had seen about, ironically, around 10 to 11 therapists all together giving a myriad of exercises that lead to... a solid brick wall. Most exacerbating my issues and some giving miniature gains. McGill says himself that the BIG 3 isn't for EVERYONE, but it is for most. That is backed by his own findings which if you search online you can look for yourself. I get that bringing your body to certain end ranges is good for you and will actually help propel your athleticism. KneesOverToes guy is an example. I WOULD NOT have been able to even attempt anything he demonstrates without USING THE BIG 3 to facilitate it. And now I'm benefiting from parts of his program. McGill is about tuning EVERYONE for what they want to do and I'm going to say with confidence that the BIG 3 is probably the BEST place to start. If someone can't even relax or breathe properly EVERY EXERCISE is going to feel like GARBAGE. This is my question to you, what exercises would you replace the BIG 3 with that at least a high percentage of the population could attempt and recieve it's benefits?
Why do those stairs go to the ceiling tho?
You haven’t told us what exercises are good for a herniated disc.
I’ve been suffering for 15 months now,and every exercise made me only worse.
I’ve got 2 herniated discs on both sides , suffering from sciatica in both legs.
Have u tried McGill the big 3 exercise
I was hurt on deadlift, I'm apprehensive of it but I really want to again but then again I never completely heal from my first injury
Whats keeping you from getting back to deadlifting? Fear, pain, BOTH?
@@drcharliejohnson pain is a factor but mostly fear of rupturing my bulges
@@MI-mx3rh fair- I get it. Start small and build up when you’re ready. The only way to get over your fear of heights is to go up to the edge and look over. Sometimes the doing is the fixing. Obviously, only do so if it feels safe - and bounce the idea off a local professional!
@@drcharliejohnson my situation gets a bit complex Dr
I was way too extension intolerant naturally this will mean to balance out the spine in a way that doesn't piss off my facet but doing that will cause a bit if flexion when I'm not care fill and in past weeks I've noticed in becoming flexion intolerant too I guess because I was doing the Hollow hold with flat out lordosis and I didn't feel it back then but it may have aggravated my mild bulges if L4L5 and LS1 and now I get symptoms down feet. I have very less options in terms of PTs and chiros they don't understand what I try to say
Its frustrating there's not easy fix to it other than stem cells and they too aren't so available yet and have their limitations
Fingers crossed I'll get to deadlift and squat again
Thanks you so much for your input Dr, I really appreciate it
God bless ❤
@@MI-mx3rh don’t squat or deadlift. It will only get worse. Not worth the risk.
Hi. If i had sugery, how can i heal prppertly?
Slow and steady. Learning what NOT to do is just as important as what to do. Do you have a PT who can walk you through an appropriate plan of care?
no, I do not have! I read, I ask, I search
Did these for over a year. Read Back Mechanic and Gift of Injury. Had a video call with Brian Carroll. Saw a McGill Master Clinician in person for the 3 hour assessment and follow ups. Spent thousands of dollars. All this did absolutely nothing for my L4/L5 disc bulge. I am still in daily pain.
The big 3 didn't work for me either, some how hip/glute exercises kill the painful sensations in my legs & feet right away. Look in to banded clam shells especially side plank clam shells they're very effective. There's also Dr Andrew Lock's hip big 3 warm up that helps me
@@MI-mx3rh thanks will look into them.
@@MI-mx3rhtell me you didn’t read the book without telling me
If your disc bulge hasn’t healed yet from walking and resting there’s probably an underlying condition that no physical therapist can cure until your nerves calm down. You’re not supposed to do the big 3 until then.
@@gregai8456 I never read the book just learned those movements from my chiro, my pains and sensations were never consistent with my discs issues its just there was no other explanation nothing else was wrong back with my tests back then, now I'm in a completely different terrible situation where tight wires start yanking in my legs when I tighten my abs and again the issue is mot consistent with my disc or si joint issues
What exactly is meant by calming the nerves?
This patient NEEDS the help of Stuart McGill. If he went to a McGill-trained therapist, he would be assessed and shown the optimal exercises for his recovery.
I think Dr Johnson's interpretation of the McGill Big Three is very narrow. The people who reinjure themselves doing the big 3 are probably working too hard; they need to regress the exercise to a manageable level, so the body has no need to fear. That is how the McGill Method works. That is what Dr Johnson is ecommending. Dr Johnson is preaching the McGill gospel whilst claiming to be preaching a different gospel.
Did these for over a year. Read Back Mechanic and Gift of Injury. Had a video call with Brian Carroll. Saw a McGill Master Clinician in person for the 3 hour assessment and follow ups. Spent thousands of dollars. All this did absolutely nothing for my L4/L5 disc bulge. I am still in daily pain.
Ooh awesomeness! Finally someone telling how it is. So frustrating to observe clients doing their darn prescribed exercises and then coming back more tense than ever. Listen to your body and not the talking heads :) At the end of the day we all have to be our own doctors. No one else will take the responsibility of your health. I will share this with my clients.
Thanks for watching Tarja! Appreciate you sharing!
Great theories would love to see these approaches in human evidence based trials...
For sure! Agreed!
I am suffering disc dessication for 3 years
Please help me
This is for weak minded people who have not grit and live by fear, My Lord says I do not to have any fear in my life. McGill is right on target walk 3 times a day and do the big 3. If you have trouble doing these big three is the more reason to do them. I had to do less than prescribed but have worked my way up to the full count. Get the McGill Back Mechanic book and start your rehab.
Kay- has nothing to do with "if you have trouble doing these things" in the sense of difficulty (that's one thing... sure, maybe a little practice wouldn't hurt)... but if painful- please do not force yourself through painful positions/motions because someone says so...
This a great, although long winded, explanation of a negative feedback loop.
He’s not saying the McGill big 3 are bad. He’s saying anything can be bad if, in reality, it reinforces fear and avoidance for you personally.