I’m a clinical psychologist who has worked with abused children in child safety & Madeline’s life & death has really affected me; I weep for her & the abuse that she endured for years. How the hell did her abuse go unnoticed & unchecked by everyone around her. How many other children has Stefan abused & how many other children are in the same situation. Madeline had nobody to cherish, love & protect her😭I’m heartbroken for Madeleine & I sincerely hope that she receives the justice that she deserves.
@cherylschumaker1366 I remember on one of the interviews with Jen, I think it was in April. They asked Jen if Maddie ever slept at anyone's overnight and Jen said No, you never know about people or something like that. But I don't remember if they asked her if anyone ever spent the night at Maddies.
@@cherylschumaker1366 I think her mom said no. And she didn’t allow her to go to sleepovers because she didn’t trust anyone with Maddie. Yes, you heard that right.
I understand the woods. The woods mean you have peace and solitude, better than the terror of your abuser at home. Anywhere is safer than home. So heartbreaking.
Out of all the videos I've seen about this, you guys have been the only ones to give a voice to that poor little girl. Every other channel has focused on details of the incident and everything in between. Thank you for showing humanity towards that little angel. The filth she was surrounded by never bothered to do that.
Ikr, even if she didn't have any in her phone, there must've been some in her cloud/or google photos. This monster of a woman needs to be in jail too! Should be facing charges.
That stuck out to me too. And when she just had her 13th birthday… come on. And then didn’t SS even bring up the photos from the party? Made my stomach flip.
@lindesyhendrjx it was weird to me that she didn’t go to the party. But let’s say she really had to work. She had the next day off…and she doesn’t even get up early to take her daughter to breakfast and school. She has her weirdo boyfriend do it after making them sleep together elsewhere.
That monster stole this little girls childhood, her innocence, her right to live without fear, but most of all he stole her life all while her mother sat in another room within the same home and didn't hear, see or suspect a thing ok. This case breaks my heart, I bet we have All cried way more tears for this sweet young girl than her own "Mother" has.
She only needed one grown-up who recognized the signs of an abused child who was totally neglected by the most important person in her life: her mother. Just one grown-up. I wish I could have saved her. ❤
@2422Chris I can't believe I'm going to say this but I truly believe this is even worse. Being in the bed with your child and a boyfriend and allowing a boyfriend alone just seems soo much more wrong.
I want to thank you Lauren and Dr John for covering this tragic case. I grew up in a situation very similar to Maddie’s. Knowing you see her and feel for her gives me hope for healing my inner child who was so invisible to my parents and objectified by my abuser. Your work is so, so important. Thank you. ❤🙏🏼
@angelglitter7792 honestly the more i hear about the money flying in im thinking he was sellingnphotos if him and Maddie or just Maddie...but i also think its likely Jen is just such a damaged peraon who was so in her own world and def over-medicationg herself so she just disnt clue in. If he had yrsong history of being loving and family oriented and helpful then she just wouldnt allow herself to see it. But the parents interview came out and many people told her the sleeping thing is inappropriate.
I see so much wrong. Jen Soto- so damaged and not wanting to see the obvious. Poor Maddie. I do want to add that i feel like I was a lot like her when I was younger , wanting that male attention, but I had a better mom and she didn't put me in those positions. No drugs or alcohol. Instead, i sought the attention out. I was victimized, too. When I grew up, I felt so dirty. While we are all side eyeing Jen - we need to be looking at her birth father too. Girls who have good daddy's not " johnny come lately" dads, do not typically have this issue.
It no wonder Maddie was depressed. Not being seen, drugged with anesthetic meds, and sexually abused continually for years! My heart breaks for her.💔 Thank you Lauren and Dr John for your explanation, making sense of this tragedy.
All the adults failed this poor girl ! Full responsibility was on the mother and she clearly failed , but the grandmother should've stepped up ,she also failed her ! I blame both !
As someone with sexual trauma from childhood, this podcast episode is one of THE most healing things I have ever come across. Thank you, Dr John, for truly seeing the humanity of a 13 year old girl as a grown man. I have a mountain of tissues beside me, and I'm sure this has been a corrective experience for many of my fellow survivors as well.
Same. We survived. Maddie represents all of us little girls that lived through it. Hugs❤ may she rest in peace and know how much her life and death has affected us. I feel stronger because of Maddie❤❤❤
It's epidemic that few want to address. So happy we survived. I hope you were able to find some level of happiness and freedom from abuse. I still struggle with trying to sleep 50 years later. Yet, I want to be supportive of those who are fighting against CA.
I relate so much to Maddie. I dreamt of living in the woods all the time. It was a mental escape if I couldn't escape my abuser. I pictured beautiful trees and babbling brooks and shooting stars when I was being abused. It kept me sane but I still didn't have a normal childhood at home or at school. All my symptoms were overlooked. It was painful to be around me because my presence was so heavy that I couldn't hide my pain well. So I was ignored.
@@heidievaning The burden is heavy!!! I don't know if you believe in the afterlife, the spiritual realm, I do. When it's your time to pass, whether this is any consolation to you or not, the bounties to be bestowed upon your beautiful soul are so that it's impossible to imagine in this material realm. Pity the soul of your abuser/s!!!!
@bianchaesson1441 I do believe in the spirit. A holy spirit came to me when I was young and didn't leave me fatherless or alone. He showed me a perspective bigger than mine and the healing powers that seem unrealistic. My prayer is that His glory will be the ending of my story. The flat tire Sterns got was no accident, and neither were the people who witnessed it. Jesus is the way to the truth and the life. I knew the bible was true because he showed it to me in dreams before I ever opened the book. I have a testimony only God could have created.
Please have another episode in this case. And go meet the mom , talk with her , she tried to work a living to provide for her child. He made jen think her baby was in good hands. This makes me cry.
Thank You for giving a voice to Maddie. When I found out she was crying to her grandmother that she does not want to go home days before her murder, it really broke my heart.
Yes! This reminds me of my niece who is 13. When I found out she was not safe at home I immediately called CPS and tried to get her out of there. She cried in my house that she just wanted to stay here and I was heartbroken. Poor Maddie had no one to care about her. She deserved so much better.
Men who use violence, coercive control, manipulation and gaslighting target people like Jen. The manipulation started with Jen. I don't like all the victim blaming.
@@bronwyn117 💯% agree. Child neglect, child endangerment. Her story has changed and sometimes I wonder if she knew about the SA That she stated to the police that the SA “ not evil” she knew more than she’s saying! She protected Stephan more than her own daughter!
The reality is you put your children first before yourself, and you work hard everyday to provide for them and protect them, from the evil in this world.
@judysanders5591 I agree. I don't think her expressed desire to ESCAPE to the woods was at all metaphorical. Maybe a bit fantastical but not metaphorical.
When real life is more frightening and horrific than ANYTHING, the “dark scary” woods could possibly contain. A lot of children are terrified of the woods. It truly does speak volumes. It couldn’t be any worse than what she was living on a daily basis.
I am a survivor of CSA. This case has hit me pretty hard. I was bullied through 1st - 8th grade and it made my home-life so much worse. I told a teacher, my school principal and my mother knew. No one helped me. My mother protected my brother. People saw but they didn’t act. I’m 58 now and I cannot tell you how profoundly it affected me. I forgave my abuser but never my mother. The woods, the bear and all the horror of the woods would have been my choice as well.
I’m watching this 3 weeks later and I heard you mention the perpetrator some times blame the victim. Saying things like she was coming on to me, two of my abusers said that very clearly about me. They were my uncles, brothers. I started speaking out about them at around the age of 50. It made me so seriously angry. 😡🤬 I feel very sorry for the victims who are blamed for the abuse. You two do such a great job at addressing this horrible situation. God bless you.
Even if mom is not directly involved, her complicity (telling them to sleep in the same bed together) is more than enough to hold her accountable. Sickening as a Mother to have your daughter sleep in the same bed as your boyfriend while you sleep alone.Her mother, who was supposed to keep her safe, fed her to the wolves.
@@trishallen1546It had 4 bedrooms. The master was Jen’s room downstairs and there were 3 bedrooms upstairs. Two of the bedrooms upstairs were rented out to roommates and Stephan’s father was paying $600 a month for the 4th bedroom.
@@starflower703Yet Madeleine, her own daughter and resident of the home was delegated to a portioned off area in the living room. Maddie should have had her own bedroom with a deadbolt and slide lock on her door that she could lock from the inside. No access for anyone else. I’m being facetious, of course. However, this story would have turned out differently if Jen had protected her daughter just a drop, in ANY manner whatsoever.
That mother is part of this! I feel it in my bones. She KNEW! She’s been covering for him, lying for him. So many people failed her. Poor sweet, broken child 😢
Agreed!!! 100% she knew. I believe Maddy told her about something at one point and JS being so obsessed with that monster doubted her daughter and asked Stephan about it and he gave her some bs story that I’m sure blamed Maddy and JS believed him over her daughter and Maddy was probably scolded for “lying” and when alone with the monster he probably threatened her. The reason I believe she told her mom something he’d done at some point is bcuz she was so open with her peers about her feelings and even with teachers and counselors. She was crying out but tragically no one asked the right questions, investigated further, or called in someone who specialized in childhood trauma. And heartbreakingly her screams went unanswered until she couldn’t scream anymore 😢💔 RIParadise Sweet Madeline ❤ and soak up the love, laughter, and serenity that surrounds you, knowing you are loved by so many here and in your paradise 🕊️
My soul cannot settle until I know that Jenn is facing consequences for what she did to her precious only daughter. She literally only needed to do the bare minimum to keep Madeline safe from that monster and instead she served her up to him. I like to imagine Maddie as she was in one of her last photos. In a beautiful blue dress, scarf trailing behind her, as she dances free through the universe.
Every adult failed her but now the public is fighting for justice and justice will prevail. I hope we find the exact truth as to what really happened the time she was killed and why it happened. May the full truth come out.
I got the impression that her menses started more than just one month prior. Jen said she kept track of her cycle on an app and also Maddie's friend stated they were usually on their periods at the same time, and one time Maddie was late, so she must have started more than a month prior to her death.
So your mother knew what was happening and did nothing? If so it makes me believe even stronger that js knew. I'm so sorry for your experiences through life and I hope you heal from that.
@@helutkakizia9476 I’m sorry you went through that 💔 it’s understandable that you didn’t have children but it’s also a shame you didn’t have a chance to love on your child the way you wanted to be loved on by your mother. It does help to heal ironically. As you get older you understand the humanity of your abusive parent and why they turned out the way they did. Doesn’t mean you condone what they did to you but you see them as they are/were: a weak human. I’ve noticed that many times, childhood abuse survivors turn out to be stronger than the average person with a “normal” childhood and a force to be reckoned with. But when the abuse is suppressed rather than healed through “the work” it can become self-destructive and destructive to those around the survivor/victim. It’s not an easy road. For some of us, our children become the inspiration to heal, grow, evolve and prepare them for the evil in this world. Wishing you an abundance of peace 🙏🏻🩷
She did I'm hoping they're gathering evidence to charge her with SOMETHING. Child endangerment or neglect or a dozen other crimes I've hope but the longer she's free hope wanes.😢
Hope this Mom didn't see this as better her than me. As in, then SS won't be bothering JS for sex, if he goes to her daughter. It's twisted, however this bs happens.
@@unazitella702She was hugging SS in the police interiew. He is showing indifference to her. It is so obvious how he feels about her. Plus it seems he was selling abuse online. Why her age mattered.😢
@@unazitella702 It looks very clear to me? What part do you not understand? Jenn and SS interviews are all over YT. Pictures of the victim were suggested to be traded for profit.
I could’ve lived the rest of my life without knowing that all of her friends canceled on her birthday. It doesn’t sound like much to us adults, but to a 13-year-old girl it’s everything and then adding on the circumstances of the rest of her life. It is heart shattering.
Her friends bailed on her and her own mother wasn’t there to celebrate her last Birthday 🎉 sad part is this won’t be the last case like this we’ll hear about!
@@basicallyno1722 he wasn’t allowed to go to the party as her (extended) family didn’t like him or want him there. Horrible that the girls cancelled the day before, I hope them and the parents will carry the guilt that they caused such upset on her last ever Birthday. All very upsetting 😓
Best analogy thus far. I also don't think she would have needed medication if not for the horrific abuse she was suffering. I, too, have often said that it's amazing that no one ever inquired further, suspected, etc... Invisible! Ty,.for caring enough to give her a voice. RIP, Sweet Angel
i get the feeling they’re selling the photos on the dark web. Why have so many saved? Somebody had to pay that new car payment, insurance, drugs, & all SS crappy man toys.
1st Maddie had no privacy as a young lady. 2nd In Jens' last interview She states" I wanted her to have her own room, but my Father really wanted RENT!" Meanwhile her father was allegedly getting 2,500 combined in rent for all rooms.Jen and Sterns were broken up and still sharing a room and keeping Maddie in a predator sandwich!Even though room 4 was paid for by a 3rd party,and unoccupied Maddie still couldn't have her own rm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Then Jen states" ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN AT A SLEEPOVER!!"so she never allowed her to stay over at a friend's or likewise.. Meanwhile she makes Maddie have sleepovers with Sterns?! Nothing Jen has said makes me believe she's innocent as far as I'm concerned They tortured this poor girl.
I always saw JS’s absence from Maddie’s birthday party as a red flag. Turning 13 is a milestone birthday and a huge deal. Officially turning into a teenager is a huge deal.
I think stephan drove a wedge between jenn and madeline, because it was easy to do. Easy to manipulate both of them. I think Jenn was jealous of Madeline. I think stephan led madeline to believe they were in a "special relationship" and she finally, in that last year, figured it out.
I have an almost 3 year old daughter. Her dad and I separated when she was only months old, and I haven’t even attempted to date or consider dating because of stories I hear like this. HOWEVER, and I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way, but a part of me is almost relieved to know that Jen really is just a pos mother because it’s a scarier thought for me to think that you would be seeing someone that long & be absolutely oblivious to that level of abuse. Jen has solidified what I’ve always believed, she is complacent, willfully ignorant, and culpable. the naive act is palpable with this one. I can’t decide if she was stunted or traumatized as a teenager, but there are parts of this interview that she sounds like one. It’s frustrating to listen to her answer these questions like an unassuming dependent airhead, it’s down right infuriating that she’s giving answers she thinks they want to hear, not what would give the answer needed in order to obtain justice for her daughter. It’s downright disgusting behavior. In my opinion, all women are innately mothers, and that is why it so foreign and strange for us, as a gender, to see someone go against that. I have zero sympathy for Jen Soto after this. I tried to have empathy for her, but I can’t even hypothesize my daughter in Madeline’s shoes, without getting upset/panicked by just the prospect of it. This interview she’s giving is mid April. She knows what happened to her daughter. Things that I can’t even imagine my daughter going through without being upset, and NOT ONCE did I hear her cry. Not one time. And maybe not everyone cries, but where is the sorrow? I’ve listened to that interview twice now. Coming full circle to foreign nature of Jen’s behavior, I’m trying to find any little glimmer of this woman actually being a mother in grief and there isn’t a damn thing. This is so heartbreaking & Im sending all my love directly to that baby that deserve all the love in the world. I really hope that there is another family member on this Earth that loves that girl enough to get some sense in them and speak up against Jen. This woman needs to be held accountable. I’m sorry but it’s the truth.
@@kyleek.cosmos3371I am done with her also. Tried to give her the benefit of the doubt but no way! She knew what was going and she chose to let it happen so the POS Stephan would stay!!! She should have never been granted immunity and they made a big mistake giving it to her!!! She should at least be charged with child neglect! When she found out what Stephan had done she called his father and said you need to get Stephan a lawyer. Are you kidding me!!!! What about your daughter!! You did not protect her the way a mom is suppose too!!!
@@kaydub4595 I think Jen was relieved that she didn’t have to sleep with him. She sent her daughter, who she didn’t like or get along with to be sacrificed in her place. She is an uncaring, unfeeling, waste of oxygen. I think she was in on it….. she knew he was drugging her, he knew he was a sexual deviant, and she didn’t care as long as she didn’t have to be bothered to be a parent. She lied to cover it up, multiple times. She knew and didn’t care. Period.
I believe in southern border security just like you believe each household should be able to lock their doors and otherwise have firm personal boundaries against harm❣️ 🇺🇸🗽🇺🇸
Came over here from Gavin Fish after he mentioned and credited this channel for info regarding Maddie. I’m so glad to see other TC TH-camrs giving Maddie a voice and making this a priority in their relaying of this tragic story.
Can you imagine telling your 13 year old daughter that when she's 18 you're going to throw her out? What a hideous thing to say. I despise Stephan but the rage I feel for Jenn is indescribable. Ok, dang it Dr. John after listening to you talk about Jenn's mental health I actually felt a twinge of sympathy for Jenn but...then I remember she told Sterns dad after finding out about the abuse they needed to get him a lawyer. Twinge of sympathy GONE
“ after listening to you talk about Jenn's mental health I actually felt a twinge of sympathy for Jenn”. It’s not about being sympathetic, it’s about UNDERSTANDING, not excusing her actions.
That thing about getting a lawyer, could mean that «he is in deep S- now». It depends upon how much she has been into legal thinking. He has a right to a lawyer.. I think most people think that she wants to protect him. The kindness experienced in Madeline could have been a trait in her mother. In kind thinking, a person in deep S- needs a lawyer.
@Hidden True Crime when I was 14 I told my mom I was SA by my moms then husband…. She said “well you have to work through that by yourself.” I would love to tell my story. I am a 53 year old adult. My mom chose her husband over me. It was a long road to recovery. I have been through many trials in my life. I would love to help someone else that is experiencing what I have been through. Love you both so much! Thank you for giving us all a voice!!
I am so sorry you had to go through that. I experienced it as well. It’s taken me many years and lots of counseling to work through it. My mother passed in December 2022 on hospice under my care. My mother’s loss has definitely stirred up all the feelings associated with the abuse, neglect, and blame. And despite everything I have experienced, I forgave my mother; because she was abused even worse as a child. Her father was an alcoholic and beat his children. Her mother withdrew to cope, neglecting her children. My grandmother’s brother molested my mother starting at age 12 that went on for over 4 years. It even happened once after she married my father. Thankfully my father confronted her abuser and told him he would never touch my mother again or he wouldn’t like my father’s reaction. My father wasn’t normally a violent man, but he put fear into the man abusing my mother and the abuse stopped. And when it happened to me, my father did everything he could to protect me and rescue me from the situation.
@@starflower703 I got you! We have been through similar SHIZZ. Hidden true Crime has given me a platform/plane I feel Dave to share. We shall heel together! 🥰🫶🏼
I’m so sorry for the way your mother betrayed you and for all your pain. ❤️ I’m sure you worked hard to get through it, I don’t know you, but I’m very proud of you. Please take good care of yourself, always. 🌸🙏🏻
I'm so sorry that you were dismissed in such a cold hearted and uncaring way by your mother. You sound like a very caring and compassionate person. I wish you all the best.🥰
If my daughter ever said some adult male made her uncomfortable, he would no longer be in the picture. I would seriously continue the conversations until I had more information. Dear God, no one helped her! 💔😢
As a survivor of child abuse I knew what it was like to feel unheard and invisible . Dr. John your beautiful words at the end were so healing . Thanks to you and Lauren for all you do.
I'm only 14 mins in & tears are flowing. This poor poor young girl. She must have felt so alone, so frightened, so worn down & unwanted. My heart breaks for this poor young girl. Shame on everyone who should have protected & helped her & did nothing. Another young life gone instead of being loved, nurtured & protected by a parent!
It’s unbelievable in this day when Maddie tells a school counselor SS made her uncomfortable her first questions were not finding out, why did he make her uncomfortable, if he’s been touching her. IMO Maddie was wanting the counselor to know without having to tell her, I’m sure SS threatened her to not tell. I feel like JS was jealous of Maddie. There were red flags flying everywhere. Thank you Dr. John and Lauren for giving Maddie a voice. Rest in heaven sweet Madeline 🕊🩷
Sure seems like people don’t give a F about the work they do. The school and home lives of kids can be so awful. To me the whole scenario with them screams SA.
I also picked up that Jen was jealous of her own child. How awful she did not attend her daughter's thirteenth birthday, a huge leap in a child's development. Telling Maddie she was going to kick her out when she turned thirteen. So sad it breaks my heart.
@@luciaseacreature8705 When your young time goes so slow, it’s horrifying to imagine this little girl suffering 7 years in that living hell. JS should also be in a jail cell.
This is EXACTLY the type of discussion I have been longing to hear. This is the first video of yours I have watched and I am impressed by your expertise, your thoughtfulness, and also your knowledge of the case. Thank you for thoughtfully considering all logical possibilities in this case.
The length of time that poor little girl was being sexually abused makes any prior abuse or depression that Jen went through irrelevant. She’s either the most neglectful mother in the world, or she knowingly turned her back to her daughter’s suffering. The minute I saw that picture of Maddie at her birthday, I knew. I could see it all over her face. I understand the need to “understand” it, but as a mother I can’t and never will. My kids don’t get a scratch without me knowing. I worked hard every day of their lives to build up trust and a good relationship with them. I educated them on abuse and that they can always tell me and I will protect them, no matter what an abuser might say or threaten them with. And I have suffered from chronic clinical depression and anxiety. I have nearly given up on life at times. But I pulled myself back because of my kids. Almost Everyone has been through abuse of some kind. We all have pain. We can all be broken. But you don’t bring kids into this world, then let the world destroy them while you’re in the next room sleeping. The ONLY one I remotely care about in this entire story is Madeline. I’m so sorry everyone in your life failed you baby girl. Rest in peace knowing nobody will ever hurt you ever again. 😢
When I listened to one of the recordings of Jen and police, she had zero anxiety about her missing daughter UNTIL they told her that they were taking Stephan's phone! Then she holds her breath and her voice is unsteady. Her phone will also reveal a lot of whatever went on between her and Stephan.
Bingo. She is obsessed with the guy, even after knowing he SA'd her daughter. Sadly, I am learning that this is not unusual or rare, which makes me want to barf. I have a friend who committed suicide at age 48. She had a mom who ignored her SA for years. Said friend went to court at 12 to get her abuser put in jail. Guy comes out of jail a few years later and the mom TAKES HIM BACK.
I had a 12th grade teacher in 1985 who noticed a change in me during her class. My case was different, but something WAS wrong. I had gotten into drugs. She wasted no time calling my parents to let them know. That was the beginning of a road to recovery. Her name was Mrs. Snow. I thank God for her every day. I don't think teachers these days connect with their students the way they did then. So sad for Maddie that no one took the time to dig deeper ❤😢
@sj9410. I am well aware of the circumstances surrounding what happened to this poor girl. I was comparing the difference in schools/teachers, and you don't know how or why I ended up how I was. Sometimes, it is NOT a choice, and it is not who I am today. But that is NOT what my post was about. It's about how so many adults failed Maddie, that none of her teachers said anything until after it was over. So come on down off of your high horse, and look for the real meaning in people's posts. Jerk.
@sj9410 She was sharing how a teacher noticed something wrong and took the step to help. There was no comparison about their journey. Your judgemental comment is cruel and unnecessary.
I grew up In Northern Michigan in the country - not town. I’m 79. The woods has never frightened me. I grew up with a mom and step dad that were brutal. My twin and I escaped to the woods at every opportunity. It was a magical place if berries, wildflowers, birds and all sorts of animals. We only encountered a dangerous animal once. A wolverine. We backed off and so did it. Lucky? I don’t think so. We went to the woods to explore but we also prayed fervently because none of the adults around us were of any help. The woods saved our lives and were instrumental in our lives. Please don’t discount the woods as a dangerous place. The imaginary characters in fairy tales are not in the woods! The woods is full of beauty.
I agree, For me it was my safe place from my home. From a brother that was a-busive in every way & a mother that was emotionally checked out & a father that was never home.
I’m also from northern Michigan the woods around here are truly beautiful and peaceful I have so many wonderful memories in the woods i also wanted to live in the woods and I still do at 30
Lauren, I'm glad you didn't apologize for crying while reading the powerful poem at the end. Your compassion and genuineness is a strength to your character.
This case has bugged me since the first time I heard it. One night, I woke up and suddenly thought about Madeline, and I felt so depressed. I cried listening to this. Thank you, Lauren and John, for talking about this case and giving her a voice.
I love that I can hear Dr. John crying, or almost crying, as he recounts Madeline's horrible experiences because I am crying, too, and I'm so grateful that he is sharing her story with compassion and respect, which she didn't even get from her own mom!!!!
Oh my goodness I've just come across your channel..two things I want to say is 1) thank you for an incredible analysis and breakdown of so many issues it was incredibly interesting and so on point. 2) that beautiful heartwrenching poem brought me to tears. Your wonderful delivery and incredible reverence for what tragic events led to this precious angels death were just breathtaking. Thank you.
The one thing I can't get past is Jen sending her 13 year old daughter to share a bed with a 37 year old man. I have never even heard of a biological father sharing a bed with his 13 year old daughter. To me this is playing russian roulette with your childs safety and his a HUGE red flag. He should be on the couch and Maddie should be in the upstairs bedroom. The self-centered behaviors and intentionally sending your daughter to sleep in the same bed as a grown man should be grounds to arrest her for child endangerment at the very least. 😡
They would need to prove she had prior knowledge of the abuse. It's almost impossible to prove. I don't understand why ANY parent would allow their child to sleep with any adult other than a parent at any age. This is especially egregious between a 13 year old girl and a man known to be mentally and emotionally unstable. If she didn't know something was going on, it's just as bad IMO.
Right??? And in her interviews she is supposedly so adamant about no sleepovers with friends and even sent messages to her bio dad about not letting anyone touch her…. I think she wanted to keep her just for Stephan. Otherwise it makes absolutely zero sense that she would be so lax about sending her to “sleep” with Stephan. He was jealous about the thought of her having an interest in boys… he was controlling and grooming her during her whole short life.
I suffered from postpartum depression when my 1st was born. I got help immediately. You NEVER put a child’s safety over your own. Maddie’s Dad doesn’t get enough grief for this either. WHERE WAS HE?!
Jennifer had married someone else. The father never knew. He was in the military. It was a one time thing. Advised after the fact and he had married too. He paid child support. All the toddler and younger photos of Madeline are provided by her father’s wife - side of the family. You do not know whether Jennifer withheld Madeline during periods from the father. The father lives in Texas. He has money constraints and he and his wife of many years did not have children. The father was as much as he could be in her life. (I believe Jennifer was abusing the welfare system and taking all kinds of medication. Why did her mother not pick up that she was being abused from photos as young as 8. Perhaps even younger).
@@Queen-Stationyeah I don't like the blame on maddies dad. Many of us have to live away from our fathers, it doesn't mean he wasn't financially supporting or talking to her regularly. I lived 5 hours away from my dad but he was still the best he could be! I'm sure he has many regrets too.
MS visited her Dad & stepmother, however Jen kept MS from them. There's an interview with MS father & his wife. They said that they would've loved to have MS with them full-time. It was early on in the case.
@kweenz109 bio dad was in PRISON and denied all paternity, even when force tested he absolutely refused to have any contact with maddie because his new wife hated her and told him she wouldn't marry him if maddie was involved in any way.
I am having to take this case in small doses over time. Every time that I think that Dr John’s job is so fascinating, we come across a case, or an aspect of a case, that makes me want to vomit. And I think, God bless Dr John for tackling the tough stuff so we don’t have to. Thank you for giving us a watered down version of the facts and a sensitive analysis of the circumstances so that we can understand the causes behind the unexplainable horrors we hear about. You both are doing a great service to your community. And your compassion is tangible. Thank you both.
Thank you for covering this horrible crime. My heart breaks for this sweet forgotten child. None of the adults in her life paid attention to her, her mother selfish not caring, the teachers, the school counselors, all let her down. The schools need to retrain everyone to be aware of the signs of abuse. Even the grandparents didnt help her, just disgusting in my opinion bring a grandparent myself. If yoyr child is crying and begging not to go home, dig deeper, listen!
I just wanted to let you both know I am finding your youtube channel to be excellent. Thank you so very much for caring. ❤I watch all the time and appreciate the knowledge..
Stephan Stern‘s mother also insinuated that Madeline was precocious. But for a child to be precocious in the sexual way, that usually means something happened to them already that was confusing to them .God only knows what she was exposed to in that house .
Not even insuate- She straight up said it. Oh that made me SO angry when she tried to soften it by dropping that in with a casual tone. That beast is most definitely a creation of her making.
There was an interview with one of SS previous roommates, and this man said that he found CSA images on the computer. That SS mother paid him off not to report it. I cannot find it online now.
Thank you, Dr.John. You put this in the most beautiful way. I think I have heard since this case has started. Thank you for doing so. I think the young lady that sent the email was speaking for many of us. Thank you again, you and your wife for touching on this subject more thorough and for listening to those of us that needed to be heard.
Violent sexual crime is rampant in this country. I am sickened , disgusted, and angry about it. Do many adults knew there was something strange going on with this child. Even this guy's mother knew he was sleeping with this child and confronted her mother about it. These single parents need to wise up about these things and should be held criminally responsible when they do nothing and these penalties need to be severe. There is no excuse for this....none.
So true. Predators love to target vulnerable, single parents, just to manipulate and gain access to their young children. It's so disgusting and infuriating. But parents need to be more aware when bringing new people into their lives. Don't ignore the little red flags!
Absolutely agree with you. ThT poor child was ignored by everyone. The person who should of protected her the most was only concerned for herself. I despise both of these monsters. VILE CREATURES !
@@karenbaldry8096 Dr John’s heartfelt concern that Maddie was “unseen” 😢❤ Even most of her friends from school choosing NOT to go to her Birthday Celebration just days b4 she’s murdered! Very TRAGIC STORY! STERNS MAY EVEN SEE THE DP FROM HIS JURY - FL JURIES DON’T PLAY NICE! SICK-SAD-SACK!
Absolutely. It is disgraceful that women who are single parents, especially of girls, HAVE to have a man when these children need them to give them the attention they need... she wouldn't let her go to sleepovers with her girlfriends for fear of something weird happening, but yet let her daughter sleep with her boyfriend by herself. WTH?? It's disgusting and so neglectful. I was a single mom of a boy and I never had a man spend the night with me or have any contact with my son until he was in college. My son was far more important than a man but there are a lot of women that just cannot live without a man and they'll do anything to keep one.
I really struggle with this case as an abused child myself, but i can watch Lauren and Dr. John because of how respectful they both are. Thank u for covering this case. I pray she gets the justice she so deserves.
The father revoked his custodial rights when Maddie was an infant and he denied being her father. Once DCFS asks if a man who is named as the father wants to voluntarily take responsibility for the child and the man refuses, he is given a paternity test on the dollar of that state agency and with this refusal, if it is found that he is actually the father, he can no longer claim that he wants custody of that child. It’s a done deal. Not only will the father then have to pay child support or have it garnished from his wages, but the mother will get full custodial rights of the care for that child and he can seek visitation, but he doesn’t have to, and clearly he didn’t want to very badly because he didn’t exercise that ability and it doesn’t matter what reason he had for not doing so, he didn’t do it.
I agree but just want to point out that it's possible maybe the bio father was not an option in her mom's mind for some unknown reason. If he was a good, safe and available option for Maddie then her mom should have sent her to her dad. We just don't know. I'm not trying to defend Maddie mother. Clearly she failed her daughter and has to live w that. For Jen's sake I hope she truly had no knowledge of the crimes against Maddie. If she knew and allowed it then imo that is unforgiveable.
@@Truth.Seeker926 people who have drug dependency and mental health issues are not always able to determine who is a better caregiver, and her father factually, self admittedly was in prison, so it would not have occurred to her in any case that he would be a better option than herself.
I hope Madeline knows the love the rest of the world has for her. It’s sad that it is only retrospective of her suffering and death, and she could not know that kind love in life.
I honestly believe that Jenn knew what was going on.She had to at least notice the change in Maddie.I know that Jenn has bipolar, but so does millions of other people.I have it and I never neglected my daughter. That's probably why she lawyered up immediately.
Same! I would definitely not act the way Jen did, he would be in prison! There is NO way Jen didn't know, or even argue about him eating all the food ect on what Maddie had told the counselor yet she made her child sleep on the same bed! Not in a million years would I ever allow a man sleep on the same bed with any of my children Male or female. She just wanted to keep him around so she gave her daughter away. Probably blamed Maddie for his disgusting perversion towards this poor angel. RIP Maddie you deserve loved, nurtured and protected.
BTW. As an SA survivor by my father, I am crushed to see Jennifer’s complicity. How many of us have to choose between the the one we hate and the one we want to love but who doesn’t protect us. My age belies my ability to forgive and comprehend. Poor Madeline. I have no empathy for the Jennifer or Stephen.
Everyone in her life in Madeline's life let her down... like you sd no one..no one saw her...even her own Grandmother.. (Jennifer's mother) pushed Madeline away ...ignored what she was expressing.... Maddie told her grandmother she didn't want to be at her own home...and that grandmother..told her to go back home.... unbelievable... Madeline was begging for help and NO ONE heard her crys.. 😭
I have cried almost all the way through this, and I seldom cry. I figured out that my crying is about you two, Lauren and John, and the goodness that is in you. I appreciate both of you so much, and I’m thankful to have found you. You’re a bright light in a weary world.
Here on replay. I have to take this case in small doses because of how sad it is and how sick SS makes me. Thank you for covering this. Maddie deserved so much better! 💜
Dr. John you are a brilliant Doctor but more important your heart is really kind and good. Thank you for being a voice for Maddie. Thank you Mel for the poem
Jennifer's ex-husband said that she had wanted him to sleep in bed with her and Maddie. He refused, saying it was inappropriate since he was not Maddie's father. This was pre-Stephan. She knew it was inappropriate. There is no way to convince me that she didn't know if what the ex-husband says is true.
Any mother knows that instinctively. Just from being a young girl at some point, you know what men can be capable of with young girls and not to risk it. She knew.
I felt this way my whole childhood and my life is a mess,Mom left us w/alcoholic father, then she disapears, And people wonder why at 13 I was a mess, really.... I'm 50 years old andi fel that I was screaming out my whole life, felt the same way as Madelyn. I tried to take my life many times, now I think I should write about it...😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢❤ I still feel lost and alone, I don't know where I fit in, never have. I don't understand that I had aunts and uncles grandparents. I was drinking alcohol at 13 at school. I was not seen either, I will never understand how they all thought I would be fine.....😢😢😢 Always in our hearts Madelyn!!!❤😢
One more point, Parents Please stop allowing boyfriends to be around your children. He began at her young age of 6 in my opinion and maybe didn’t start filming until later that we know of. My mother was stunning and never had me meet a boyfriend. My mum or grandparents were with me. Same with my kids. When my daughter felt uncomfortable around a teacher I listened and acted. Taught my kids to listen to their gut. Kids KNOW when people are “weird”. Listen to that. They’re telling you that person is creepy or weird that is Significant. Those are kids way of saying Child Predator.
Children are something like 80% more likely to be abused or killed in a home with a step parent figure than with both parents or just a single parent. People need to stay with the other parent until the kids are grown. Make your choice and stick with it. As long as that person is a good parent, you won the lottery these days.
Thank you, dear Lauren and Dr John, for having the courage to tackle one of the most difficult and heartbreaking cases in true crime. If Maddie was so shamefully ignored in life, we will make sure, as a caring community, that she's seen and clearly heard from now on. "My Name Is Maddie" is Madeline Soto's legacy, not mine; I'm merely a vessel for her message. Rest in peace with the angels, my sweet Maddie! 🙏😇
Mel, such a beautiful poem for Maddie. Gut wrenching yet beautiful. She will have a legacy that was so brutally stolen from her. Thank you for writing the words that needed to be said for her ❤
@@wendywoobles -- Thank you so much for your very kind words, Wendy. Maddie deserves justice and deserves to be heard; and, if I managed to touch a few hearts with the words that I imagined she'd use, then I've done something worthwhile for Maddie.
Im feeling all of this. In 1977 my first year at school i was going through S.A, P.A and E.A....i would cry at school if i had to go to the bathroom because it stung. I would cry because i didn't want to go home. The problem was all the abuse was directed at me, NOBODY saw it. I had to lie about bruises etc i wouldn't speak every school report said i was far too timid and shy. On top of that i was told i was naturally talented at most of what i did and my mum HATED it so she hid it and told people i was the opposite useless an idiot etc this went on till i was kicked on the streets at 14. NOBODY CARED not the police NOBODY...and this is still happening im 52 i have NOBODY and Nothing i struggle everyday with horrific memories like almost being stabbed to death in my sleep at 14 which is why i had to get out anyway. But it was dangerous on the streets too. Safety, love, affection there things i will never know. When are things going to get better. When a&%se isnt a dirty word might help. Stop making these things feel like dirty words it makes it harder to talk about. PLEASE tell children the truth.
I have 4 daughters and this story has just broken my heart. The way the mother ignored every sign. To say it was ADHD or autism… to her mother “your boyfriend was abusing your daughter!!!” To SS mother too “your son was abusing Madeline!!” As a mother, JS and SS mom needs to do soul searching about why Madeline was acting the way she did. I’m so so sad for madeline not being seen as the beautiful girl she was, and her abuse signs being seen as an ADHD or autism diagnosis.
Girls and women with ADHD and ASD, and disabilities, are also more likely to be abused statistically than their neurotypical counterparts. This is important to recognize. It is hard to determine you’re correct as some of the symptoms of trauma can look similar to the traits of those disorders. I myself was one such girl. Because of developmental issues we are easier targets and often neglected or emotionally and physically abused by teachers and at home.
Whoa, I've not been following this case, but THIS! "Wasn't seen." This is heartbreaking. Please tell me this Mother is not getting an immunity deal. I appreciate both of your talents, insights and hard work. With gratitude. Beautiful inside and out.
Thank you for giving Madeline a voice. Her story could be mine and it makes me sad that she went through all that she did. My mother's boyfriend did the same thing. My mother said nothing, seeming to encourage us to be in the same bed. i was only 12. She told me that if I ever told anyone she would go to jail. I finally had enough. He was very abusive. If I flinched at his ss, he would hit me. Once, I asked my mom for a hair cut. He got so angry, he cut my hair, making the bangs so short they were nonexistent. I didn't want any of it. I too was ready to escape to the woods. I felt at home there because no one could touch me or hurt me there (at least, that was my reasoning). I finally told a pastor's wife when it got so bad I couldn't stand it anymore. I begged her to not report it because I didn't want my mother to go to jail. (I wish she had done the right thing, but I don't blame her. she was trying to help a child). She was able to find my aunt and get me out of there, but the damage was done. The church came down on me for being "promiscuous" even though I was 12 and had no desire whatsoever to have that done to me. My aunt kept accusing me of looking at her sons but that was totally not true. As an adult, I went to my mother and asked why. She swore she didn't remember any of it and asked me why I would think she could ever do that. I have no idea if she had selective memory or if she was just trying to make me think I had lost my mind. She is gone now. I gave her the benefit of a doubt and I loved her, but I still live with the pain she allowed in the place I should have felt safe. I say this all because I think that Madeline's mom knew what was happening, but I don't think she knew he was going to do what he did. As a mom, I would never allow that to happen to my children.
To be fair to the school counselor,when Madeline said SS made her uncomfortable, Madeline kind of shrugged it off and said he hangs out in the lounge and eats their food. Also not only did JS not go to the birthday party, Madeline told her friend that JS didn't get her a present. Some people have commented that maybe JS couldn't afford it, yet when SS told his father he was going to stay with JS for a week and his father replied that he wasn't going to fund the trip, SS told him JS was paying for it.
@@suefairbrother3556 Constantly hanging out and eating their food might annoy a child, especially one who isn’t having their emotional needs met by their parent but instead she used the word “uncomfortable” which is telling. If anything her follow up narrative should have hoisted the red flags further as it did not align with what one would have expected as an answer given the vocabulary of her initial statement. Of course her discomfort around him would not have necessarily suggested S/A right off the bat as that could be caused by a number of things but it definitely deserved a deeper look at least to the point of a reasonably plausible explanation given by the child.
Dr. John explained CSA incredibly well, and it was the first time that I was able to understand why my (now ex) "boyfriend/fiance" abused my twelve year old {at the time of first inappropriate contact} daughter for two years! I didn't suspect a thing, and all my friends and family adored this "sensitive caring soul." Luckily my daughter found her voice, five years after the abuse ended, told myself, and reported him to the proper authorities. Now we await his trial. My deepest gratitude to Dr. John for exploring the reasoning for this horrible behavior. I now can begin to understand why my "soulmate" of close to twenty years chose to throw a bomb of chaos, shame and intense betrayal into our entire family.
Dr John & Lauren you present such a wonderful channel. There is no room for criticism of you or the channel. Well done. I don’t catch the lives as I’m in Oz but enjoy you both.❤❤
![“อ.เบียร์ คนตื่นธรรม” มาตามคำเรียกร้อง แหกศาสตร์ฮวงจุ้ย เตือนสติอย่างมงาย | แฉ 7 พ.ย. 67 [1/3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5fc4S3xBNfc/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m a clinical psychologist who has worked with abused children in child safety & Madeline’s life & death has really affected me; I weep for her & the abuse that she endured for years. How the hell did her abuse go unnoticed & unchecked by everyone around her. How many other children has Stefan abused & how many other children are in the same situation. Madeline had nobody to cherish, love & protect her😭I’m heartbroken for Madeleine & I sincerely hope that she receives the justice that she deserves.
I wondered the same.
Did Maddie ever have anyone sleep over ? Cousins? friends ? Surly the invesgators would have asked this question already
@cherylschumaker1366 I remember on one of the interviews with Jen, I think it was in April. They asked Jen if Maddie ever slept at anyone's overnight and Jen said No, you never know about people or something like that. But I don't remember if they asked her if anyone ever spent the night at Maddies.
@@resellingandthrifting
I believe they asked her that question and mom said no friends stayed over.
@@cherylschumaker1366 I think her mom said no. And she didn’t allow her to go to sleepovers because she didn’t trust anyone with Maddie. Yes, you heard that right.
I understand the woods. The woods mean you have peace and solitude, better than the terror of your abuser at home. Anywhere is safer than home. So heartbreaking.
@@ReneeLibby-cv8vf she chose bear, and that so many of us can understand why breaks my heart :(
I raised my daughter as a single mother..I let no man in the house..I waited till she was an adult and then I pursued a relationship
I did the same.
@@aurorawalls3177 Very smart. Both of you. I’m grateful to hear that.
I did the same raising 2 daughters!
What about your sons ladies? They are no safer than your daughters.
@@dawnlennon5331 Same. She was talking about her personal experience.
No need to keep politicizing everything.
Out of all the videos I've seen about this, you guys have been the only ones to give a voice to that poor little girl. Every other channel has focused on details of the incident and everything in between. Thank you for showing humanity towards that little angel. The filth she was surrounded by never bothered to do that.
Jen couldn’t even find a photo of her missing daughter on her phone. That was a red flag for me. Maddie was invisible 😢😢😢😢RIP sweet girl.
Ikr, even if she didn't have any in her phone, there must've been some in her cloud/or google photos. This monster of a woman needs to be in jail too! Should be facing charges.
That stuck out to me too. And when she just had her 13th birthday… come on.
And then didn’t SS even bring up the photos from the party? Made my stomach flip.
I did not know that. That is extremely telling. That there was no affected for her little girl.
But SS had PLENTY of photos, but that's right, he couldn't show THOSE to the police.
@lindesyhendrjx it was weird to me that she didn’t go to the party. But let’s say she really had to work. She had the next day off…and she doesn’t even get up early to take her daughter to breakfast and school. She has her weirdo boyfriend do it after making them sleep together elsewhere.
That monster stole this little girls childhood, her innocence, her right to live without fear, but most of all he stole her life all while her mother sat in another room within the same home and didn't hear, see or suspect a thing ok. This case breaks my heart, I bet we have All cried way more tears for this sweet young girl than her own "Mother" has.
She only needed one grown-up who recognized the signs of an abused child who was totally neglected by the most important person in her life: her mother. Just one grown-up. I wish I could have saved her. ❤
I’m sure her “mother” knew exactly what was happening. Disgusting
Well said exactly ✌️
Agree@@cheyanndoyle1688
1:22:07 but ANY mother who let's her boyfriend asleep in a bed with her child is a failure as a parent. This is a hill I will die on.
Casey Anthony had 2 different boyfriends sleeping in bed with her and Kaylee
@2422Chris I can't believe I'm going to say this but I truly believe this is even worse. Being in the bed with your child and a boyfriend and allowing a boyfriend alone just seems soo much more wrong.
I’m not sure Dr. John disagrees, he’s simply showing WHY a person behaves that way. It doesn’t excuse her criminal neglect, it simply explains why
You’re on a very crowded hill
@@LarryLegend3923Caylee was a baby not a thirteen year old the vast majority of people would not think much of a baby sleeping in the bed .
I want to thank you Lauren and Dr John for covering this tragic case. I grew up in a situation very similar to Maddie’s. Knowing you see her and feel for her gives me hope for healing my inner child who was so invisible to my parents and objectified by my abuser. Your work is so, so important. Thank you. ❤🙏🏼
I see you. May your healing be as great as the grace you are wished for the rest of your days. Blessings. 🙏❤️🩹💝
I see you as well, and understand.
The way Dr.John opened tonight’s discussion made me tear up. Thank you both so much for “seeing” this little girl.
Ditto
Same. I wish I could take her away and love her and see her! 💔💔💔
Agreed 💯. Your show is so necessary! Thank you
Yes, he couldn’t have expressed it any better. Heartbreaking.
AMEN such a gift to hear this little innocent be heard
I 1000% blame Jennifer Soto. She GAVE her daughter to this creep!
@@dawnscheerhoorn9583 wonder if theis creep was paying her just to BE ABLE TO get his way with Maddie . R.I.P 🪽Maddie🪽🙏👼🏻
@angelglitter7792 honestly the more i hear about the money flying in im thinking he was sellingnphotos if him and Maddie or just Maddie...but i also think its likely Jen is just such a damaged peraon who was so in her own world and def over-medicationg herself so she just disnt clue in. If he had yrsong history of being loving and family oriented and helpful then she just wouldnt allow herself to see it. But the parents interview came out and many people told her the sleeping thing is inappropriate.
I see so much wrong. Jen Soto- so damaged and not wanting to see the obvious. Poor Maddie. I do want to add that i feel like I was a lot like her when I was younger , wanting that male attention, but I had a better mom and she didn't put me in those positions. No drugs or alcohol. Instead, i sought the attention out. I was victimized, too. When I grew up, I felt so dirty. While we are all side eyeing Jen - we need to be looking at her birth father too. Girls who have good daddy's not " johnny come lately" dads, do not typically have this issue.
Agreed and she could still care less.
She used her daughter to keep him around, to please him
"Iife is best lived with your eyes closed." This was a quote was on Jennifer's social media. Very profound and telling. Willfully blind 😢
It no wonder Maddie was depressed. Not being seen, drugged with anesthetic meds, and sexually
abused continually for years!
My heart breaks for her.💔
Thank you Lauren and Dr John for your explanation, making sense of this tragedy.
Absolutely right
So many adults in her life, none protected her.
All the adults failed this poor girl !
Full responsibility was on the mother and she clearly failed , but the grandmother should've stepped up ,she also failed her !
I blame both !
Bio father failed her too.
Her Mother's Bi Polar med issue, she projected to her daughter and put her on medication too. Bad Mother this woman.
As someone with sexual trauma from childhood, this podcast episode is one of THE most healing things I have ever come across. Thank you, Dr John, for truly seeing the humanity of a 13 year old girl as a grown man. I have a mountain of tissues beside me, and I'm sure this has been a corrective experience for many of my fellow survivors as well.
Same for me. Hugs. 💜
Same here friend ❤
Same. We survived. Maddie represents all of us little girls that lived through it. Hugs❤ may she rest in peace and know how much her life and death has affected us. I feel stronger because of Maddie❤❤❤
It's epidemic that few want to address. So happy we survived. I hope you were able to find some level of happiness and freedom from abuse.
I still struggle with trying to sleep 50 years later. Yet, I want to be supportive of those who are fighting against CA.
Yes warm up close family member of mine as well. Sadly I witnessed it, and greatly stopped it!!
I relate so much to Maddie. I dreamt of living in the woods all the time. It was a mental escape if I couldn't escape my abuser. I pictured beautiful trees and babbling brooks and shooting stars when I was being abused. It kept me sane but I still didn't have a normal childhood at home or at school. All my symptoms were overlooked. It was painful to be around me because my presence was so heavy that I couldn't hide my pain well. So I was ignored.
@@heidievaning The burden is heavy!!! I don't know if you believe in the afterlife, the spiritual realm, I do. When it's your time to pass, whether this is any consolation to you or not, the bounties to be bestowed upon your beautiful soul are so that it's impossible to imagine in this material realm.
Pity the soul of your abuser/s!!!!
@bianchaesson1441 I do believe in the spirit. A holy spirit came to me when I was young and didn't leave me fatherless or alone. He showed me a perspective bigger than mine and the healing powers that seem unrealistic. My prayer is that His glory will be the ending of my story. The flat tire Sterns got was no accident, and neither were the people who witnessed it. Jesus is the way to the truth and the life. I knew the bible was true because he showed it to me in dreams before I ever opened the book. I have a testimony only God could have created.
@@heidievaning FANTASTIC!!!
At the end of the day , she may be in shock that's still her little girl,died by the big bad wolf. Please don't put that Mommy down 😢
Please have another episode in this case. And go meet the mom , talk with her , she tried to work a living to provide for her child. He made jen think her baby was in good hands. This makes me cry.
Thank You for giving a voice to Maddie. When I found out she was crying to her grandmother that she does not want to go home days before her murder, it really broke my heart.
again... no-one helped this child.
Maddie never had a chance in this life.
Was she?? Poor baby girl
And why did the GMA not say okay stay with me? 🙆🏻♀️
Yes! This reminds me of my niece who is 13. When I found out she was not safe at home I immediately called CPS and tried to get her out of there. She cried in my house that she just wanted to stay here and I was heartbroken. Poor Maddie had no one to care about her. She deserved so much better.
I truly believe her mother needs to be charged with something. It’s unforgivable that she sent her daughter to bed with her boyfriend.
@@bronwyn117
Totally agree 💯%
You’d be surprised how many moms defend her actions because they do it too
Isn’t there a law against this? If there isn’t, there ought to be.
Men who use violence, coercive control, manipulation and gaslighting target people like Jen. The manipulation started with Jen. I don't like all the victim blaming.
@@bronwyn117 💯% agree. Child neglect, child endangerment. Her story has changed and sometimes I wonder if she knew about the SA That she stated to the police that the SA “ not evil” she knew more than she’s saying! She protected Stephan more than her own daughter!
The reality is you put your children first before yourself, and you work hard everyday to provide for them and protect them, from the evil in this world.
Her house was the scary place, the woods would be far better for her.
@judysanders5591 I agree. I don't think her expressed desire to ESCAPE to the woods was at all metaphorical. Maybe a bit fantastical but not metaphorical.
The woods were where I found peace and quiet when I was a child. Maybe Maddie felt the same way. My heart breaks for her.
This is what fuels the “id rather be in the woods alone with a bear” trend
When real life is more frightening and horrific than ANYTHING, the “dark scary” woods could possibly contain.
A lot of children are terrified of the woods. It truly does speak volumes. It couldn’t be any worse than what she was living on a daily basis.
That’s right, completely
I am a survivor of CSA. This case has hit me pretty hard. I was bullied through 1st - 8th grade and it made my home-life so much worse. I told a teacher, my school principal and my mother knew. No one helped me. My mother protected my brother. People saw but they didn’t act. I’m 58 now and I cannot tell you how profoundly it affected me. I forgave my abuser but never my mother. The woods, the bear and all the horror of the woods would have been my choice as well.
I’m watching this 3 weeks later and I heard you mention the perpetrator some times blame the victim. Saying things like she was coming on to me, two of my abusers said that very clearly about me. They were my uncles, brothers.
I started speaking out about them at around the age of 50.
It made me so seriously angry. 😡🤬
I feel very sorry for the victims who are blamed for the abuse.
You two do such a great job at addressing this horrible situation.
God bless you.
Even if mom is not directly involved, her complicity (telling them to sleep in the same bed together) is more than enough to hold her accountable. Sickening as a Mother to have your daughter sleep in the same bed as your boyfriend while you sleep alone.Her mother, who was supposed to keep her safe, fed her to the wolves.
I don't think Jenn was naive. I think she didn't care.
I thought the condo had 3 bedrooms.
@@trishallen1546It had 4 bedrooms. The master was Jen’s room downstairs and there were 3 bedrooms upstairs. Two of the bedrooms upstairs were rented out to roommates and Stephan’s father was paying $600 a month for the 4th bedroom.
@@starflower703Yet Madeleine, her own daughter and resident of the home was delegated to a portioned off area in the living room. Maddie should have had her own bedroom with a deadbolt and slide lock on her door that she could lock from the inside. No access for anyone else. I’m being facetious, of course. However, this story would have turned out differently if Jen had protected her daughter just a drop, in ANY manner whatsoever.
Mother is A ACCESSORY TO M
That mother is part of this! I feel it in my bones. She KNEW! She’s been covering for him, lying for him. So many people failed her. Poor sweet, broken child 😢
100%
Who tracks their daughter’s period?
@@loriswenson2276 exactly! She KNEW!
JS 1000% was aware. She disgusts me
Agreed!!! 100% she knew. I believe Maddy told her about something at one point and JS being so obsessed with that monster doubted her daughter and asked Stephan about it and he gave her some bs story that I’m sure blamed Maddy and JS believed him over her daughter and Maddy was probably scolded for “lying” and when alone with the monster he probably threatened her. The reason I believe she told her mom something he’d done at some point is bcuz she was so open with her peers about her feelings and even with teachers and counselors. She was crying out but tragically no one asked the right questions, investigated further, or called in someone who specialized in childhood trauma. And heartbreakingly her screams went unanswered until she couldn’t scream anymore 😢💔
RIParadise Sweet Madeline ❤ and soak up the love, laughter, and serenity that surrounds you, knowing you are loved by so many here and in your paradise 🕊️
I'm a relatively new listener and am really enjoying your videos. The presentations are professional and thoughtful.
My soul cannot settle until I know that Jenn is facing consequences for what she did to her precious only daughter.
She literally only needed to do the bare minimum to keep Madeline safe from that monster and instead she served her up to him.
I like to imagine Maddie as she was in one of her last photos. In a beautiful blue dress, scarf trailing behind her, as she dances free through the universe.
Every adult failed her but now the public is fighting for justice and justice will prevail. I hope we find the exact truth as to what really happened the time she was killed and why it happened. May the full truth come out.
@@Speakupok 🎯💯❤
Thank you for that mental picture of Maddie, it's really comforting.
I got the impression that her menses started more than just one month prior. Jen said she kept track of her cycle on an app and also Maddie's friend stated they were usually on their periods at the same time, and one time Maddie was late, so she must have started more than a month prior to her death.
@@BAWNBAWNBAWN She started when she was 11.
Thank you! I am Madeline, and Jen is my mother! I was so afraid i might be like Jen i never decided to have kids. Your episode helps to heal.
So your mother knew what was happening and did nothing? If so it makes me believe even stronger that js knew. I'm so sorry for your experiences through life and I hope you heal from that.
Me too. I will never forgive my mother either. I do have kids, and I am hypervigilant and a bit of a 🚁 mom. My husband is the same.
@@helutkakizia9476 I’m sorry you went through that 💔 it’s understandable that you didn’t have children but it’s also a shame you didn’t have a chance to love on your child the way you wanted to be loved on by your mother. It does help to heal ironically. As you get older you understand the humanity of your abusive parent and why they turned out the way they did. Doesn’t mean you condone what they did to you but you see them as they are/were: a weak human. I’ve noticed that many times, childhood abuse survivors turn out to be stronger than the average person with a “normal” childhood and a force to be reckoned with. But when the abuse is suppressed rather than healed through “the work” it can become self-destructive and destructive to those around the survivor/victim.
It’s not an easy road. For some of us, our children become the inspiration to heal, grow, evolve and prepare them for the evil in this world.
Wishing you an abundance of peace 🙏🏻🩷
Did you see the grandmother’s interview? She seems so very cold - it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to find this is generational abuse
@angeliqueschmidts2555 Hi Angelique my "Jen" had support she needed. She just chose to choose herself. 🤎
You guys make me realise there are still good people in the world. God bless from Australia
She handed Madeline on a silver platter to her killer
She did
I'm hoping they're gathering evidence to charge her with SOMETHING.
Child endangerment or neglect or a dozen other crimes
I've hope but the longer she's free hope wanes.😢
Hope this Mom didn't see this as better her than me. As in, then SS won't be bothering JS for sex, if he goes to her daughter. It's twisted, however this bs happens.
@@unazitella702She was hugging SS in the police interiew. He is showing indifference to her. It is so obvious how he feels about her.
Plus it seems he was selling abuse online. Why her age mattered.😢
@@pennyc11 What do you mean by your last statement?
@@unazitella702 It looks very clear to me? What part do you not understand? Jenn and SS interviews are all over YT.
Pictures of the victim were suggested to be traded for profit.
I could’ve lived the rest of my life without knowing that all of her friends canceled on her birthday. It doesn’t sound like much to us adults, but to a 13-year-old girl it’s everything and then adding on the circumstances of the rest of her life. It is heart shattering.
Probably didn’t want to be around Stephen
That broke my heart. Her last birthday.
That broke my heart too. Abandoned on her last birthday.
Her friends bailed on her and her own mother wasn’t there to celebrate her last Birthday 🎉 sad part is this won’t be the last case like this we’ll hear about!
@@basicallyno1722 he wasn’t allowed to go to the party as her (extended) family didn’t like him or want him there.
Horrible that the girls cancelled the day before, I hope them and the parents will carry the guilt that they caused such upset on her last ever Birthday.
All very upsetting 😓
Best analogy thus far. I also don't think she would have needed medication if not for the horrific abuse she was suffering. I, too, have often said that it's amazing that no one ever inquired further, suspected, etc... Invisible!
Ty,.for caring enough to give her a voice. RIP, Sweet Angel
To me, the Mom needs to be prosecuted! You can’t tell me she didn’t think sleeping in the same bed as her boyfriend is not wrong! Total neglect!
i get the feeling they’re selling the photos on the dark web. Why have so many saved? Somebody had to pay that new car payment, insurance, drugs, & all SS crappy man toys.
Yes I’ve thought this too @Sheeza
❤
She was afraid of every other situation but ignored the one in her own house
I agree and even the film of her being sent to heaven. 😡@@FloraDubya
The fact that Jennifer gave her a makeshift room, with a flimsy privacy door. Speaks volumes too! That poor girl …..😩
She said it was because the grandfather wanted that room to be rented out after SS moved. But, I totally agree with you!
@@SisterGoldenHair212 I heard that, we now know she is a liar! So doubt the grandfather is kicking a child out of a room
1st Maddie had no privacy as a young lady. 2nd In Jens' last interview She states" I wanted her to have her own room, but my Father really wanted RENT!" Meanwhile her father was allegedly getting 2,500 combined in rent for all rooms.Jen and Sterns were broken up and still sharing a room and keeping Maddie in a predator sandwich!Even though room 4 was paid for by a 3rd party,and unoccupied Maddie still couldn't have her own rm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Then Jen states" ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN AT A SLEEPOVER!!"so she never allowed her to stay over at a friend's or likewise.. Meanwhile she makes Maddie have sleepovers with Sterns?! Nothing Jen has said makes me believe she's innocent as far as I'm concerned They tortured this poor girl.
Not to mention her bed was shoved up against the sliding glass door…
@@SisterGoldenHair212then she should have rented it for Maddie she can afford a brand new car and Botox she can afford a bedroom for Maddie .
I always saw JS’s absence from Maddie’s birthday party as a red flag. Turning 13 is a milestone birthday and a huge deal. Officially turning into a teenager is a huge deal.
For real. Even though she started a new job I'm sure when making her schedule she could have let the employer know she was unavailable on that day.
Was used to neglecting her
I think stephan drove a wedge between jenn and madeline, because it was easy to do. Easy to manipulate both of them. I think Jenn was jealous of Madeline.
I think stephan led madeline to believe they were in a "special relationship" and she finally, in that last year, figured it out.
Triangulation is a typical tactic of narcissists so this makes total sense!
I think Jenn knew what was going on. No amount of triangulation or manipulation on SS’s part can amend that.
This is strongly what I have felt was happening.
Yes 100%.
Why do we lock our doors at night? Because we cannot count on the moral compass of others. Jen absolutely FAILED as a parent.
I have an almost 3 year old daughter. Her dad and I separated when she was only months old, and I haven’t even attempted to date or consider dating because of stories I hear like this. HOWEVER, and I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way, but a part of me is almost relieved to know that Jen really is just a pos mother because it’s a scarier thought for me to think that you would be seeing someone that long & be absolutely oblivious to that level of abuse. Jen has solidified what I’ve always believed, she is complacent, willfully ignorant, and culpable. the naive act is palpable with this one. I can’t decide if she was stunted or traumatized as a teenager, but there are parts of this interview that she sounds like one. It’s frustrating to listen to her answer these questions like an unassuming dependent airhead, it’s down right infuriating that she’s giving answers she thinks they want to hear, not what would give the answer needed in order to obtain justice for her daughter. It’s downright disgusting behavior. In my opinion, all women are innately mothers, and that is why it so foreign and strange for us, as a gender, to see someone go against that. I have zero sympathy for Jen Soto after this. I tried to have empathy for her, but I can’t even hypothesize my daughter in Madeline’s shoes, without getting upset/panicked by just the prospect of it. This interview she’s giving is mid April. She knows what happened to her daughter. Things that I can’t even imagine my daughter going through without being upset, and NOT ONCE did I hear her cry. Not one time. And maybe not everyone cries, but where is the sorrow? I’ve listened to that interview twice now. Coming full circle to foreign nature of Jen’s behavior, I’m trying to find any little glimmer of this woman actually being a mother in grief and there isn’t a damn thing. This is so heartbreaking & Im sending all my love directly to that baby that deserve all the love in the world. I really hope that there is another family member on this Earth that loves that girl enough to get some sense in them and speak up against Jen. This woman needs to be held accountable. I’m sorry but it’s the truth.
@@kyleek.cosmos3371I am done with her also. Tried to give her the benefit of the doubt but no way! She knew what was going and she chose to let it happen so the POS Stephan would stay!!! She should have never been granted immunity and they made a big mistake giving it to her!!! She should at least be charged with child neglect! When she found out what Stephan had done she called his father and said you need to get Stephan a lawyer. Are you kidding me!!!! What about your daughter!! You did not protect her the way a mom is suppose too!!!
@@kaydub4595 I think Jen was relieved that she didn’t have to sleep with him. She sent her daughter, who she didn’t like or get along with to be sacrificed in her place. She is an uncaring, unfeeling, waste of oxygen. I think she was in on it….. she knew he was drugging her, he knew he was a sexual deviant, and she didn’t care as long as she didn’t have to be bothered to be a parent. She lied to cover it up, multiple times. She knew and didn’t care. Period.
@@kyleek.cosmos3371 Excellent insights & analysis! NOOOO apology needed. 💞
I believe in southern border security just like you believe each household should be able to lock their doors and otherwise have firm personal boundaries against harm❣️ 🇺🇸🗽🇺🇸
Came over here from Gavin Fish after he mentioned and credited this channel for info regarding Maddie. I’m so glad to see other TC TH-camrs giving Maddie a voice and making this a priority in their relaying of this tragic story.
Can you imagine telling your 13 year old daughter that when she's 18 you're going to throw her out? What a hideous thing to say. I despise Stephan but the rage I feel for Jenn is indescribable. Ok, dang it Dr. John after listening to you talk about Jenn's mental health I actually felt a twinge of sympathy for Jenn but...then I remember she told Sterns dad after finding out about the abuse they needed to get him a lawyer. Twinge of sympathy GONE
And don’t discount her saying the sex stuff wasn’t evil. She knew imo.
👏🏼
“ after listening to you talk about Jenn's mental health I actually felt a twinge of sympathy for Jenn”. It’s not about being sympathetic, it’s about UNDERSTANDING, not excusing her actions.
I agree. Jennifer and Stephan may have had an agreement😢
That thing about getting a lawyer, could mean that «he is in deep S- now». It depends upon how much she has been into legal thinking. He has a right to a lawyer.. I think most people think that she wants to protect him. The kindness experienced in Madeline could have been a trait in her mother. In kind thinking, a person in deep S- needs a lawyer.
@Hidden True Crime when I was 14 I told my mom I was SA by my moms then husband…. She said “well you have to work through that by yourself.” I would love to tell my story. I am a 53 year old adult. My mom chose her husband over me. It was a long road to recovery. I have been through many trials in my life. I would love to help someone else that is experiencing what I have been through. Love you both so much! Thank you for giving us all a voice!!
I am so sorry you had to go through that. I experienced it as well. It’s taken me many years and lots of counseling to work through it. My mother passed in December 2022 on hospice under my care. My mother’s loss has definitely stirred up all the feelings associated with the abuse, neglect, and blame. And despite everything I have experienced, I forgave my mother; because she was abused even worse as a child. Her father was an alcoholic and beat his children. Her mother withdrew to cope, neglecting her children. My grandmother’s brother molested my mother starting at age 12 that went on for over 4 years. It even happened once after she married my father. Thankfully my father confronted her abuser and told him he would never touch my mother again or he wouldn’t like my father’s reaction. My father wasn’t normally a violent man, but he put fear into the man abusing my mother and the abuse stopped. And when it happened to me, my father did everything he could to protect me and rescue me from the situation.
@@starflower703 I got you! We have been through similar SHIZZ. Hidden true Crime has given me a platform/plane I feel Dave to share. We shall heel together! 🥰🫶🏼
I’m so sorry for the way your mother betrayed you and for all your pain. ❤️
I’m sure you worked hard to get through it, I don’t know you, but I’m very proud of you.
Please take good care of yourself, always. 🌸🙏🏻
I'm so sorry that you were dismissed in such a cold hearted and uncaring way by your mother.
You sound like a very caring and compassionate person. I wish you all the best.🥰
I'm so sorry
What a heartbreaking case. Thank you for your compassion and kindness, Lauren and Dr John. Watching from South Africa
If my daughter ever said some adult male made her uncomfortable, he would no longer be in the picture. I would seriously continue the conversations until I had more information. Dear God, no one helped her! 💔😢
As a survivor of child abuse I knew what it was like to feel unheard and invisible . Dr. John your beautiful words at the end were so healing . Thanks to you and Lauren for all you do.
Bless your kind soul
Dear Dr John, thank you for your informative, clear and thorough analysis.
I'm only 14 mins in & tears are flowing. This poor poor young girl. She must have felt so alone, so frightened, so worn down & unwanted. My heart breaks for this poor young girl.
Shame on everyone who should have protected & helped her & did nothing. Another young life gone instead of being loved, nurtured & protected by a parent!
It’s unbelievable in this day when Maddie tells a school counselor SS made her uncomfortable her first questions were not finding out, why did he make her uncomfortable, if he’s been touching her. IMO Maddie was wanting the counselor to know without having to tell her, I’m sure SS threatened her to not tell. I feel like JS was jealous of Maddie. There were red flags flying everywhere. Thank you Dr. John and Lauren for giving Maddie a voice. Rest in heaven sweet Madeline 🕊🩷
Sure seems like people don’t give a F about the work they do. The school and home lives of kids can be so awful. To me the whole scenario with them screams SA.
Counselors therapists and drs let Maddie down as well imo .
I also picked up that Jen was jealous of her own child. How awful she did not attend her daughter's thirteenth birthday, a huge leap in a child's development. Telling Maddie she was going to kick her out when she turned thirteen. So sad it breaks my heart.
@@TeeJayNZ it seems EVERY ONE failed every one...
@@luciaseacreature8705 When your young time goes so slow, it’s horrifying to imagine this little girl suffering 7 years in that living hell. JS should also be in a jail cell.
This is EXACTLY the type of discussion I have been longing to hear. This is the first video of yours I have watched and I am impressed by your expertise, your thoughtfulness, and also your knowledge of the case. Thank you for thoughtfully considering all logical possibilities in this case.
The length of time that poor little girl was being sexually abused makes any prior abuse or depression that Jen went through irrelevant. She’s either the most neglectful mother in the world, or she knowingly turned her back to her daughter’s suffering. The minute I saw that picture of Maddie at her birthday, I knew. I could see it all over her face.
I understand the need to “understand” it, but as a mother I can’t and never will. My kids don’t get a scratch without me knowing. I worked hard every day of their lives to build up trust and a good relationship with them. I educated them on abuse and that they can always tell me and I will protect them, no matter what an abuser might say or threaten them with. And I have suffered from chronic clinical depression and anxiety. I have nearly given up on life at times. But I pulled myself back because of my kids. Almost Everyone has been through abuse of some kind. We all have pain. We can all be broken. But you don’t bring kids into this world, then let the world destroy them while you’re in the next room sleeping.
The ONLY one I remotely care about in this entire story is Madeline. I’m so sorry everyone in your life failed you baby girl. Rest in peace knowing nobody will ever hurt you ever again. 😢
When I listened to one of the recordings of Jen and police, she had zero anxiety about her missing daughter UNTIL they told her that they were taking Stephan's phone! Then she holds her breath and her voice is unsteady. Her phone will also reveal a lot of whatever went on between her and Stephan.
Bingo. She is obsessed with the guy, even after knowing he SA'd her daughter. Sadly, I am learning that this is not unusual or rare, which makes me want to barf. I have a friend who committed suicide at age 48. She had a mom who ignored her SA for years. Said friend went to court at 12 to get her abuser put in jail. Guy comes out of jail a few years later and the mom TAKES HIM BACK.
This by far has been the best, most insightful reading of Jen, Maddie and Stephen , Thank you for this
I had a 12th grade teacher in 1985 who noticed a change in me during her class. My case was different, but something WAS wrong. I had gotten into drugs. She wasted no time calling my parents to let them know. That was the beginning of a road to recovery. Her name was Mrs. Snow. I thank God for her every day. I don't think teachers these days connect with their students the way they did then. So sad for Maddie that no one took the time to dig deeper ❤😢
Schools are overwhelmed and underfunded.
@@TinyRanter what about the other adults in Maddie's life? Grandma, aunt, grandpa, SS's parents??? EVERY SINGLE ADULT FAILED MADDIE!!
That's completely different, that was your choice, sexual abuse is not a choice of the victim
@sj9410. I am well aware of the circumstances surrounding what happened to this poor girl. I was comparing the difference in schools/teachers, and you don't know how or why I ended up how I was. Sometimes, it is NOT a choice, and it is not who I am today. But that is NOT what my post was about. It's about how so many adults failed Maddie, that none of her teachers said anything until after it was over. So come on down off of your high horse, and look for the real meaning in people's posts. Jerk.
@sj9410 She was sharing how a teacher noticed something wrong and took the step to help. There was no comparison about their journey. Your judgemental comment is cruel and unnecessary.
I grew up
In Northern Michigan in the country - not town. I’m 79. The woods has never frightened me. I grew up with a mom and step dad that were brutal. My twin and I escaped to the woods at every opportunity. It was a magical place if berries, wildflowers, birds and all sorts of animals. We only encountered a dangerous animal once. A wolverine. We backed off and so did it. Lucky? I don’t think so. We went to the woods to explore but we also prayed fervently because none of the adults around us were of any help. The woods saved our lives and were instrumental in our lives. Please don’t discount the woods as a dangerous place. The imaginary characters in fairy tales are not in the woods! The woods is full of beauty.
I agree, For me it was my safe place from my home. From a brother that was a-busive in every way & a mother that was emotionally checked out & a father that was never home.
I’m also from northern Michigan the woods around here are truly beautiful and peaceful I have so many wonderful memories in the woods i also wanted to live in the woods and I still do at 30
😢
I hope you achieved some level of healing and are happy today! Thank you for sharing.
Agree 100%. Montana girl here. The woods were (and still are) a sanctuary.
Lauren, I'm glad you didn't apologize for crying while reading the powerful poem at the end. Your compassion and genuineness is a strength to your character.
This case has broke me.. I will never forget Maddie and I can’t even imagine what she endured..RIP angel
All I can hope is that she was drugged or asleep when this abuse happened. Makes me so sick to think what she endured.
Same. This girl will walk the earth being seen and loved in my heart forever
Thank you Lauren and Dr John for bring awareness and discussing this with us
This case has bugged me since the first time I heard it. One night, I woke up and suddenly thought about Madeline, and I felt so depressed. I cried listening to this. Thank you, Lauren and John, for talking about this case and giving her a voice.
I love that I can hear Dr. John crying, or almost crying, as he recounts Madeline's horrible experiences because I am crying, too, and I'm so grateful that he is sharing her story with compassion and respect, which she didn't even get from her own mom!!!!
Oh my goodness I've just come across your channel..two things I want to say is 1) thank you for an incredible analysis and breakdown of so many issues it was incredibly interesting and so on point. 2) that beautiful heartwrenching poem brought me to tears. Your wonderful delivery and incredible reverence for what tragic events led to this precious angels death were just breathtaking. Thank you.
The one thing I can't get past is Jen sending her 13 year old daughter to share a bed with a 37 year old man. I have never even heard of a biological father sharing a bed with his 13 year old daughter. To me this is playing russian roulette with your childs safety and his a HUGE red flag. He should be on the couch and Maddie should be in the upstairs bedroom. The self-centered behaviors and intentionally sending your daughter to sleep in the same bed as a grown man should be grounds to arrest her for child endangerment at the very least. 😡
At the very least. 🤬
They would need to prove she had prior knowledge of the abuse. It's almost impossible to prove. I don't understand why ANY parent would allow their child to sleep with any adult other than a parent at any age. This is especially egregious between a 13 year old girl and a man known to be mentally and emotionally unstable. If she didn't know something was going on, it's just as bad IMO.
Right??? And in her interviews she is supposedly so adamant about no sleepovers with friends and even sent messages to her bio dad about not letting anyone touch her…. I think she wanted to keep her just for Stephan. Otherwise it makes absolutely zero sense that she would be so lax about sending her to “sleep” with Stephan. He was jealous about the thought of her having an interest in boys… he was controlling and grooming her during her whole short life.
@@ButterflyGirl822 I agree with you she figured it out while he was gone for while
She was allowing it well before 13
I suffered from postpartum depression when my 1st was born. I got help immediately. You NEVER put a child’s safety over your own. Maddie’s Dad doesn’t get enough grief for this either. WHERE WAS HE?!
Jennifer had married someone else. The father never knew. He was in the military. It was a one time thing. Advised after the fact and he had married too. He paid child support. All the toddler and younger photos of Madeline are provided by her father’s wife - side of the family. You do not know whether Jennifer withheld Madeline during periods from the father. The father lives in Texas. He has money constraints and he and his wife of many years did not have children. The father was as much as he could be in her life. (I believe Jennifer was abusing the welfare system and taking all kinds of medication. Why did her mother not pick up that she was being abused from photos as young as 8. Perhaps even younger).
@@Queen-Stationyeah I don't like the blame on maddies dad. Many of us have to live away from our fathers, it doesn't mean he wasn't financially supporting or talking to her regularly. I lived 5 hours away from my dad but he was still the best he could be! I'm sure he has many regrets too.
MS visited her Dad & stepmother, however Jen kept MS from them. There's an interview with MS father & his wife. They said that they would've loved to have MS with them full-time. It was early on in the case.
@kweenz109 bio dad was in PRISON and denied all paternity, even when force tested he absolutely refused to have any contact with maddie because his new wife hated her and told him she wouldn't marry him if maddie was involved in any way.
I am having to take this case in small doses over time. Every time that I think that Dr John’s job is so fascinating, we come across a case, or an aspect of a case, that makes me want to vomit. And I think, God bless Dr John for tackling the tough stuff so we don’t have to. Thank you for giving us a watered down version of the facts and a sensitive analysis of the circumstances so that we can understand the causes behind the unexplainable horrors we hear about. You both are doing a great service to your community. And your compassion is tangible. Thank you both.
Thank you for covering this horrible crime. My heart breaks for this sweet forgotten child. None of the adults in her life paid attention to her, her mother selfish not caring, the teachers, the school counselors, all let her down. The schools need to retrain everyone to be aware of the signs of abuse. Even the grandparents didnt help her, just disgusting in my opinion bring a grandparent myself. If yoyr child is crying and begging not to go home, dig deeper, listen!
Many parents were abused as young children but choose not to abuse their offspring.
FACTS
But some do 😢
I just wanted to let you both know I am finding your youtube channel to be excellent. Thank you so very much for caring. ❤I watch all the time and appreciate the knowledge..
Stephan Stern‘s mother also insinuated that Madeline was precocious. But for a child to be precocious in the sexual way, that usually means something happened to them already that was confusing to them .God only knows what she was exposed to in that house .
Not even insuate- She straight up said it.
Oh that made me SO angry when she tried to soften it by dropping that in with a casual tone.
That beast is most definitely a creation of her making.
@@Nous520 I agree she enabled that 👿 his whole life
There was an interview with one of SS previous roommates, and this man said that he found CSA images on the computer. That SS mother paid him off not to report it. I cannot find it online now.
@@unazitella702I think that was an interview on Gray Investigation (or something sounding similar)
"A relationship with the child is not reciprocal", such a profound statement!!!
Thank you, Dr.John. You put this in the most beautiful way. I think I have heard since this case has started. Thank you for doing so. I think the young lady that sent the email was speaking for many of us. Thank you again, you and your wife for touching on this subject more thorough and for listening to those of us that needed to be heard.
Heart wrenching, sickening, yet Dr John covers it so eloquently and with so much compassionate wisdom. Thank you both for your work. Love to Madeline.
Violent sexual crime is rampant in this country. I am sickened , disgusted, and angry about it. Do many adults knew there was something strange going on with this child. Even this guy's mother knew he was sleeping with this child and confronted her mother about it. These single parents need to wise up about these things and should be held criminally responsible when they do nothing and these penalties need to be severe. There is no excuse for this....none.
So true. Predators love to target vulnerable, single parents, just to manipulate and gain access to their young children. It's so disgusting and infuriating. But parents need to be more aware when bringing new people into their lives. Don't ignore the little red flags!
His mother could also have alerted the childcare authorities.
Absolutely agree with you. ThT poor child was ignored by everyone. The person who should of protected her the most was only concerned for herself. I despise both of these monsters. VILE CREATURES !
@@karenbaldry8096
Dr John’s heartfelt concern that Maddie was “unseen” 😢❤
Even most of her friends from school choosing NOT to go to her Birthday Celebration just days b4 she’s murdered! Very TRAGIC STORY! STERNS MAY EVEN SEE THE DP FROM HIS JURY - FL JURIES DON’T PLAY NICE!
SICK-SAD-SACK!
Absolutely. It is disgraceful that women who are single parents, especially of girls, HAVE to have a man when these children need them to give them the attention they need... she wouldn't let her go to sleepovers with her girlfriends for fear of something weird happening, but yet let her daughter sleep with her boyfriend by herself. WTH?? It's disgusting and so neglectful. I was a single mom of a boy and I never had a man spend the night with me or have any contact with my son until he was in college. My son was far more important than a man but there are a lot of women that just cannot live without a man and they'll do anything to keep one.
Learning from Dr. John and Lauren is a treasure!!! Thank you 🙏❤️
I really struggle with this case as an abused child myself, but i can watch Lauren and Dr. John because of how respectful they both are. Thank u for covering this case. I pray she gets the justice she so deserves.
Jenn should’ve let Maddy’s dad have custody if she had too many mental health or drug dependency issues.
The father revoked his custodial rights when Maddie was an infant and he denied being her father. Once DCFS asks if a man who is named as the father wants to voluntarily take responsibility for the child and the man refuses, he is given a paternity test on the dollar of that state agency and with this refusal, if it is found that he is actually the father, he can no longer claim that he wants custody of that child. It’s a done deal. Not only will the father then have to pay child support or have it garnished from his wages, but the mother will get full custodial rights of the care for that child and he can seek visitation, but he doesn’t have to, and clearly he didn’t want to very badly because he didn’t exercise that ability and it doesn’t matter what reason he had for not doing so, he didn’t do it.
She needed the money cause she supported a monster .
@@jessieessex1000% correct. Maddie’s bio was irresponsible as well imo.
I agree but just want to point out that it's possible maybe the bio father was not an option in her mom's mind for some unknown reason. If he was a good, safe and available option for Maddie then her mom should have sent her to her dad. We just don't know. I'm not trying to defend Maddie mother. Clearly she failed her daughter and has to live w that. For Jen's sake I hope she truly had no knowledge of the crimes against Maddie. If she knew and allowed it then imo that is unforgiveable.
@@Truth.Seeker926 people who have drug dependency and mental health issues are not always able to determine who is a better caregiver, and her father factually, self admittedly was in prison, so it would not have occurred to her in any case that he would be a better option than herself.
Thank you for all of your sensitive insights. This is so heartbreaking
I hope Madeline knows the love the rest of the world has for her. It’s sad that it is only retrospective of her suffering and death, and she could not know that kind love in life.
It is so sad how overlooked she was in her life only to be a headline due to her monster's abuse. It's so, so sad. 😢
I honestly believe that Jenn knew what was going on.She had to at least notice the change in Maddie.I know that Jenn has bipolar, but so does millions of other people.I have it and I never neglected my daughter. That's probably why she lawyered up immediately.
Same! I would definitely not act the way Jen did, he would be in prison! There is NO way Jen didn't know, or even argue about him eating all the food ect on what Maddie had told the counselor yet she made her child sleep on the same bed! Not in a million years would I ever allow a man sleep on the same bed with any of my children Male or female. She just wanted to keep him around so she gave her daughter away. Probably blamed Maddie for his disgusting perversion towards this poor angel. RIP Maddie you deserve loved, nurtured and protected.
I don’t think Jenn noticed anything but Stephan
@@alisonkalbskopf6817 I disagree, there was a reason why she seemed to dislike her own child.
@@alisonkalbskopf6817 I disagree, there was a reason why she seemed to dislike her own child.
@@alisonkalbskopf6817 i dont think she noticed him too much either. She only noticed herself. Her sleep, her schedule, her rest, her peace.
My heart is so sad... For late Madeline, 😢😢😢Thank you for bringing all this information to us🙏
BTW. As an SA survivor by my father, I am crushed to see Jennifer’s complicity. How many of us have to choose between the the one we hate and the one we want to love but who doesn’t protect us. My age belies my ability to forgive and comprehend. Poor Madeline. I have no empathy for the Jennifer or Stephen.
Everyone in her life in Madeline's life let her down... like you sd no one..no one saw her...even her own Grandmother.. (Jennifer's mother) pushed Madeline away ...ignored what she was expressing.... Maddie told her grandmother she didn't want to be at her own home...and that grandmother..told her to go back home.... unbelievable... Madeline was begging for help and NO ONE heard her crys.. 😭
Heart wrenching she didn't have anyone to trust and tell. Ty both for your compassionate coverage. Love Dr. J's professional insights too.
I have cried almost all the way through this, and I seldom cry. I figured out that my crying is about you two, Lauren and John, and the goodness that is in you. I appreciate both of you so much, and I’m thankful to have found you. You’re a bright light in a weary world.
Here on replay. I have to take this case in small doses because of how sad it is and how sick SS makes me. Thank you for covering this. Maddie deserved so much better! 💜
Same for me. 💜 Thank oddness men like Dr. John are in this world. I could never do that work, not when kids are involved.
Dr. John you are a brilliant Doctor but more important your heart is really kind and good. Thank you for being a voice for Maddie. Thank you Mel for the poem
This little girl was failed by everyone. I’m so angry and crushed for her.
Agree This child was in class falling asleep.i have to take a break from this
Everyone
Jennifer's ex-husband said that she had wanted him to sleep in bed with her and Maddie. He refused, saying it was inappropriate since he was not Maddie's father. This was pre-Stephan. She knew it was inappropriate. There is no way to convince me that she didn't know if what the ex-husband says is true.
Any mother knows that instinctively. Just from being a young girl at some point, you know what men can be capable of with young girls and not to risk it. She knew.
I felt this way my whole childhood and my life is a mess,Mom left us w/alcoholic father, then she disapears,
And people wonder why at 13 I was a mess, really....
I'm 50 years old andi fel that I was screaming out my whole life, felt the same way as Madelyn. I tried to take my life many times, now I think I should write about it...😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢❤
I still feel lost and alone, I don't know where I fit in, never have. I don't understand that I had aunts and uncles grandparents. I was drinking alcohol at 13 at school. I was not seen either, I will never understand how they all thought I would be fine.....😢😢😢
Always in our hearts Madelyn!!!❤😢
I hope you will have peace in your heart & soul healed from your past…
One more point, Parents Please stop allowing boyfriends to be around your children. He began at her young age of 6 in my opinion and maybe didn’t start filming until later that we know of. My mother was stunning and never had me meet a boyfriend. My mum or grandparents were with me. Same with my kids. When my daughter felt uncomfortable around a teacher I listened and acted. Taught my kids to listen to their gut. Kids KNOW when people are “weird”. Listen to that. They’re telling you that person is creepy or weird that is Significant. Those are kids way of saying Child Predator.
Children are something like 80% more likely to be abused or killed in a home with a step parent figure than with both parents or just a single parent. People need to stay with the other parent until the kids are grown. Make your choice and stick with it. As long as that person is a good parent, you won the lottery these days.
@@notsorry3631 💯
@@notsorry3631People should try harder to work relationships out.
The poem devastated me. Maddie deserves nothing but justice
A mother’s JOB is to protect her children & LOVE them
Thank you, dear Lauren and Dr John, for having the courage to tackle one of the most difficult and heartbreaking cases in true crime. If Maddie was so shamefully ignored in life, we will make sure, as a caring community, that she's seen and clearly heard from now on. "My Name Is Maddie" is Madeline Soto's legacy, not mine; I'm merely a vessel for her message. Rest in peace with the angels, my sweet Maddie! 🙏😇
Mel, such a beautiful poem for Maddie. Gut wrenching yet beautiful. She will have a legacy that was so brutally stolen from her. Thank you for writing the words that needed to be said for her ❤
Beautiful poem Mel ❤
@@wendywoobles --
Thank you so much for your very kind words, Wendy. Maddie deserves justice and deserves to be heard; and, if I managed to touch a few hearts with the words that I imagined she'd use, then I've done something worthwhile for Maddie.
@@toribern816 --
Thank you very much, Tori. ❤
After all the poem broke me...and I cried after a very long time.
Thank you
Im feeling all of this. In 1977 my first year at school i was going through S.A, P.A and E.A....i would cry at school if i had to go to the bathroom because it stung. I would cry because i didn't want to go home. The problem was all the abuse was directed at me, NOBODY saw it. I had to lie about bruises etc i wouldn't speak every school report said i was far too timid and shy. On top of that i was told i was naturally talented at most of what i did and my mum HATED it so she hid it and told people i was the opposite useless an idiot etc this went on till i was kicked on the streets at 14. NOBODY CARED not the police NOBODY...and this is still happening im 52 i have NOBODY and Nothing i struggle everyday with horrific memories like almost being stabbed to death in my sleep at 14 which is why i had to get out anyway. But it was dangerous on the streets too. Safety, love, affection there things i will never know. When are things going to get better. When a&%se isnt a dirty word might help. Stop making these things feel like dirty words it makes it harder to talk about. PLEASE tell children the truth.
I’m so sorry you were in/are in this kind of nightmare. I hope and pray you find love, safety, and peace. 🙏
Thank you for the amazing work you both do. Very difficult to hear these things but so important to bring awareness!!
In all of the darkness, dr John’s ability to give voice to victims and boundless empathy is a true light. Thank you both of all you do.
I have 4 daughters and this story has just broken my heart. The way the mother ignored every sign. To say it was ADHD or autism… to her mother “your boyfriend was abusing your daughter!!!” To SS mother too “your son was abusing Madeline!!” As a mother, JS and SS mom needs to do soul searching about why Madeline was acting the way she did. I’m so so sad for madeline not being seen as the beautiful girl she was, and her abuse signs being seen as an ADHD or autism diagnosis.
I could only imagine, I have no kids and this case infuriates the SHIT outta me
Girls and women with ADHD and ASD, and disabilities, are also more likely to be abused statistically than their neurotypical counterparts. This is important to recognize. It is hard to determine you’re correct as some of the symptoms of trauma can look similar to the traits of those disorders. I myself was one such girl. Because of developmental issues we are easier targets and often neglected or emotionally and physically abused by teachers and at home.
Whoa, I've not been following this case, but THIS! "Wasn't seen." This is heartbreaking. Please tell me this Mother is not getting an immunity deal. I appreciate both of your talents, insights and hard work. With gratitude. Beautiful inside and out.
Thank you for giving Madeline a voice. Her story could be mine and it makes me sad that she went through all that she did. My mother's boyfriend did the same thing. My mother said nothing, seeming to encourage us to be in the same bed. i was only 12. She told me that if I ever told anyone she would go to jail. I finally had enough. He was very abusive. If I flinched at his ss, he would hit me. Once, I asked my mom for a hair cut. He got so angry, he cut my hair, making the bangs so short they were nonexistent. I didn't want any of it. I too was ready to escape to the woods. I felt at home there because no one could touch me or hurt me there (at least, that was my reasoning). I finally told a pastor's wife when it got so bad I couldn't stand it anymore. I begged her to not report it because I didn't want my mother to go to jail. (I wish she had done the right thing, but I don't blame her. she was trying to help a child). She was able to find my aunt and get me out of there, but the damage was done. The church came down on me for being "promiscuous" even though I was 12 and had no desire whatsoever to have that done to me. My aunt kept accusing me of looking at her sons but that was totally not true. As an adult, I went to my mother and asked why. She swore she didn't remember any of it and asked me why I would think she could ever do that. I have no idea if she had selective memory or if she was just trying to make me think I had lost my mind. She is gone now. I gave her the benefit of a doubt and I loved her, but I still live with the pain she allowed in the place I should have felt safe. I say this all because I think that Madeline's mom knew what was happening, but I don't think she knew he was going to do what he did. As a mom, I would never allow that to happen to my children.
Teri what a tragic horrible experience you survived. I am so shocked and sorry. 😢
Teri, I am sorry. I'm glad that you somehow survived. God Bless You . Thank you for sharing.
Dr. John you exude so much compassion. Bless you.
Excellent! Thank you. The only time I've understood
This is the most interesting, insightful, touching, and intelligent take on Maddie's situation and how the people around her affected her.
"Sleepy days" noticed by teachers absolutely breaks my heart! We all know why Maddie was getting no sleep...why didn't they question it? 😡
To be fair to the school counselor,when Madeline said SS made her uncomfortable, Madeline kind of shrugged it off and said he hangs out in the lounge and eats their food.
Also not only did JS not go to the birthday party, Madeline told her friend that JS didn't get her a present. Some people have commented that maybe JS couldn't afford it, yet when SS told his father he was going to stay with JS for a week and his father replied that he wasn't going to fund the trip, SS told him JS was paying for it.
Counselor should have asked more pointed questions.
@@suefairbrother3556 Constantly hanging out and eating their food might annoy a child, especially one who isn’t having their emotional needs met by their parent but instead she used the word “uncomfortable” which is telling.
If anything her follow up narrative should have hoisted the red flags further as it did not align with what one would have expected as an answer given the vocabulary of her initial statement.
Of course her discomfort around him would not have necessarily suggested S/A right off the bat as that could be caused by a number of things but it definitely deserved a deeper look at least to the point of a reasonably plausible explanation given by the child.
Dr. John explained CSA incredibly well, and it was the first time that I was able to understand why my (now ex) "boyfriend/fiance" abused my twelve year old {at the time of first inappropriate contact} daughter for two years! I didn't suspect a thing, and all my friends and family adored this "sensitive caring soul." Luckily my daughter found her voice, five years after the abuse ended, told myself, and reported him to the proper authorities. Now we await his trial. My deepest gratitude to Dr. John for exploring the reasoning for this horrible behavior. I now can begin to understand why my "soulmate" of close to twenty years chose to throw a bomb of chaos, shame and intense betrayal into our entire family.
We’re so sorry this happened to you and your daughter
I’m so sorry. 🙏
Dr John & Lauren you present such a wonderful channel. There is no room for criticism of you or the channel. Well done. I don’t catch the lives as I’m in Oz but enjoy you both.❤❤